Comments on: Scale

By: City living in a post-peak world – Guy McPherson's blog

City living in a post-peak world – Guy McPherson's blog — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 00:15:38 +0000

[...] extend far beyond survival, as I’ve described repeatedly (recent examples can be found here, here, here, here, and [...]

By: How to Save the World

How to Save the World — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 05:18:05 +0000

Links and Tweets of the Week: September 20, 2009

By: Ted Howard

Ted Howard — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:48:01 +0000

Hi Carol
I meant some of the commenters here were having a pissing contest, not Guy’s blog.
I identify as a radical anti-civ doomer, and at the same time a positive biophiliac. I love my work as a permaculture gardener, and find great joy in doing something tangible/physical for the benefit of landbase and community. If that switches a lot/most mainstreamers off, so be it. The dominant culture is insane and unreachable, as are most of it’s inhabitants. It’s about tipping points. I trust that I’ll reach the right people, help awaken them, and the virus of understanding will spread.
I hope you can surround yourself with supportive community because that’s the only true sustainability. If you’re in a situation where you have to pay money for any/all help, it’s not a good sign. Building social capital right now is very important. When push comes to shove, who you can trust to support and protect you may be based on this rather than money…
The hyper-individualism I see all around me within the Global Industrial Civilisation (aka Empire) is a clear indication of how challenging it’s going to be to survive once manure really hits the windfarm. Most of my relationships are still linked to moneterisation…that’s just plain insane.
I’ve been peak oil activist at local and national level for 12 years…Yeah, I know what you mean about being too quiet. It comes with the new awakened mindset/heart space though. I like to inject my joyful radical ideas wherever possible, but the ripple effect is small. It’s got to get bigger, and must move out of individual lifestyle choices and changes.
Regards
Ted

By: Carol

Carol — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 15:08:18 +0000

Hi Ted,
OK, maybe you are not in the bargaining stage, just trying how to work out how you can promote community,humanity, and life and not succumb to civilization, progress, and death.
That is what I am trying to do as well with my limited amount of energy. I want to keep a positive attitude, which is becoming increasingly difficult, but if I want to affect a change on any of the people around me I can’t be all doom and gloom. The doors will be slammed in my face.
I know my chances for survival are probably slimmer than even yours- I am a woman approaching late 50′s and sometimes just getting out of bed is painful. I’ve recently moved and am starting my little homestead from scratch. It was easier 20 years ago when I had a support system-now I have to build the community part as well.I agree with most everything you said in both your posts but
I don’t think this blog is a pissing contest about who is doing the most good- it’s people sharing thoughts and ideas and trying to connect with like-minded others. I welcome it because to me being a peak oil believer is kind of like being an atheist in an overcrowded conservative christian environment. We are all(most of us anyway) quiet,maybe too quiet and too tolerant as well. Of course PO and religion do not compare-I’m just trying to make a point. Anyway, thanks for your reply.
Carol

By: Matt Robinson

Matt Robinson — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:50:54 +0000

I think the title says it all -- Nature Bats Last.

We are all part of a constant evolutionary process. It's been going on for billions of years, and it will continue for the rest of time. Everything on earth will ultimately be recycled. There will be new species to replace the old -- more survivable and perhaps even more beautiful than those before them.

For all we know there could have been another time before the dinosaurs when humans dwelled here. Perhaps they did the same things we did and met the same fate we could be facing.

I don't see any way we can reverse what's going on here. There are simply too many vested interests for the uniform consensus we need to act decisively and effectively as a species, and no one knows if even that will solve the problems. Perhaps we shouldn't do anything and simply believe in the 'purity' of the process itself, accepting that this is a necessary part of the larger evolutionary process.

Maybe one day my fossilized remains will be found by a being more advanced and caring of the cradle of his existence.

By: Ted Howard

Ted Howard — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 06:48:31 +0000

Hi Carol
You think I may be in bargaining stage…why?
Because I call the cultural insanity for what it is?
And leave humans as OK?
I back this up with comments from indigenous people who really appreciate not being lumped in with ‘us’ as a species problem.
As I’m not indigenous, I doubt I will survive what’s coming, and I’m OK with that. I accept I’m probably as stuck as the next person in this shit-aweful culture, my chances of surviving the increasingly evident Great Unravelling for the next few years are very slim. But I’ll do what I can to make a difference, and go down fighting for the love and life of my landbase.
Personal lifestyle changes don’t really cut it and most of the rest of the world, including the 200+ species going in the 6th Mass Extinction today have no time anymore for this sort of crap. Time to decide what matters: http://culturechange.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=523&Itemid=1
Regards
Ted

By: Carol

Carol — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:09:51 +0000

Dear Guy,
This was a very interesting post, but the back and forth on the comments really made me think. I’m sorry I wasn’t able to get in on it earlier but I was sans internet for a week and then I was busy building a fence and digging beds trying to get my garden established.
Here’s my take:
Reading the entire piece reminded me of Elizabeth Kubler-Ross’ steps in dealing with death and dying.
We are dealing with a type of death and all the comments including yours seemed to fall into and overlap several of the categories.
Guy, you were so angry(rightfully so) and the level-headed , diplomatic Stan seemed to be in the “acceptance” stage. Several of the other contributors were in various other stages. Personally, I fluctuate between all of the following stages on a daily if not more frequent basis.
Denial- which most Westerners are in, if they even have any knowledge of the issues you write about.
Anger- I think this post personified this stage
Bargaining- Maybe Ted was doing a little of this- and I think we all do this in our own ways. For example- don’t eat meat, but drive to the beach for a holiday. Kind of a justification for not going “all out” as some of you have.
Depression- I think there is a lot of that going around. I know that I suffer from it when I think of the world I am leaving for my only grandson(5 months old)
Acceptance- Sooner or later, probably sooner, we will all have to accept the world of shit we’ve created and tending to agree with one of the other comments I unfortunately believe that “we’re all fucked”.
Sometimes I think this is the hardest place to be because then we have to say “now what?” and actually do something. Guy is providing us with one scenario and it is up to us as individuals to make our own decisions and plans.
I’m thankful for this blog and only wish I could write half as well as most of you do. I do much better at talking and listening.
thanks, Carol

By: Stan Moore

Stan Moore — Sun, 13 Sep 2009 23:27:03 +0000

Obama’s Critical Role –
How to bring down the house without panic? Mesmerize the inhabitants with smoke and mirrors and happy bullshit so that they think the walls are sound and the foundation is secure, even as the demolition charges are being set.
Dick Cheney did his job; now it is Obama’s turn. The wars continue and even increase, even as hired mercenaries in Iraq make the expense to the US taxpayer even higher than when using the US military.
Obama would not send Cheney to prison — they are players on the same team and Obama is the Fourth Quarter quarterback.
Stan

By: Stan Moore

Stan Moore — Sun, 13 Sep 2009 23:15:38 +0000

Dear Professor Guy and all –
As an ongoing periodic viewer of this blog, I am pleased to hear some fresh, informed voices. I think that Guy is happy to be questioned from various angles and he stands up well to such scrutiny. No one essay, even a Magnum Opus is so comprehensive to cover everything at once.
I do agree that the system we have now is engineered for the benefit of the few. and has always been so. Howard Zinn pointed out as much in his People’s History.
I would not be utterly surprised to see an engineered human die-off with targeted survivors holding an unfair edge. This could involve use of bacterial warfare, for instance. I don’t know of any such plans, but I know that those in power are ruthless and apt at self-preservation.
I think Guy’s message is that people need to be informed and to work for self-survival and survival in community/tribal settings locally all over the place.
I think Global Warming is far more dangerous than Peak Oil in that it can drive us to extinction. Peak Oil can drive billions to early death, but that is not quite as bad as the worst-case scenario for climate change. However, Peak Oil COULD lead to nuclear war and die-off in its own worst-case scenario, as per Jay Hanson. Either way we are screwed, but we have a more of a chance if we can still diminish the very worst of climate change. I have seen new reports that the Arctic may already be forever altered, based on a series of ecological studies. The Germans have just sailed a couple of merchant vessages across the Arctic, for another first in planetary alteration for the worse.
The worst prospect is for synergetic and cascading effects of everything ecological, economical, and political and not enough mud huts for everyone who would like one.
Stan Moore
San Geronimo, CA

By: Guy McPherson

Guy McPherson — Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:07:07 +0000

Dave Kimble, I didn’t mention a lot of things in the magnus opus, including carrying capacity and tools for terminating industrial culture. I write about those frequently on this blog, though, as a quick perusal will show. I’m all about bringing down our omnicidal culture without further degrading the planet. Regarding global climate change, let’s not take the ultra-conservative, long-outdated view from the IPCC as gospel. I’d prefer the ultraconservative, slightly newer update provided by the Hadley Centre, which indicates we need to terminate the industrial economy by the end of this year if our species is to make it through the bottleneck: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climatechange/policymakers/action/emissions_270908.pdf (warning: this is a large pdf file). A 2 C increase almost certainly causes loss of all planetary ice and extinction of our species. And the “baseline” is 1990, indicating the 47% reduction in the optimistic scenario (relative to 1990) translates to at least 60% today.
Ted Howard and AT: What’s this? Two sane voices in the blogosphere? And on this particular blog, no less? (With no offense intended to my regular readers and posters.) Thanks for your first-time comments. Thanks, too, to Dave, for keeping the conversation going and for reading my older post.