Comments on: Terminating the industrial economy: a ten-step plan

By: What works, maybe: individual options – Guy McPherson's blog

What works, maybe: individual options – Guy McPherson's blog — Mon, 26 Apr 2010 17:31:59 +0000

[...] of western civilization? In addition to hastening the collapse, some tools for which I’ve listed before, I describe four points along a continuum for your own, individual, post-carbon future: (1) [...]

By: vera

vera — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:41:05 +0000

Somebody who understands Jevons’ paradox! Amazing. I shall be back.

By: Rubbing our noses in it – Guy McPherson's blog

Rubbing our noses in it – Guy McPherson's blog — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 20:04:48 +0000

[...] I mentioned you were “rubbing our noses in it” about economic collapse, particularly with your 10-step plan. When I think about the implications of what you are saying from the perspective of the actions of [...]

By: Chad Woolley

Chad Woolley — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 09:04:52 +0000

Yes, it is moral obligation to do something meaningful.

And, as this post illustrates, there is not shortage of actions you can take, controversial and not.

However, I feel like I am personally unable to fulfill that obligation in a meaningful way. I have educated myself on the dire reality of our collective situation, and opted out of propaganda; but that only makes me all the more despairing of our ability solve it collectively. That in turn makes me feel any actions I do take individually (activism, recycling, being self-sufficient) are for naught – or at best serve selfish goals of preservation for myself and my dependents.

I guess you could say I don’t have any faith, which is ironic for a regular churchgoer.

Plus, as I’ve mentioned before, it’s hard to escape the American debt-serf status quo – especially when it would be (perceived as) hardship to my dependents.

Plus, I’m lazy and prefer to spend my non-serf time relatively non-productively (from a saving-the-planet perspective). When I observed first hand how hard you and your neighbors work to further these goals, it didn’t look like fun at all to do on a daily basis. When I observe how hard other activists work and get nowhere with it, their efforts seem uselessly Quixotic.

So, even though I think the ideas in this article are great and morally justified, I cannot overcome my human (and personal) tendency towards fatalism and inertia. Unfortunately, this feeling only deepens as I learn more about the nature of reality (and the reality of nature).

By: Keith Farnish

Keith Farnish — Sun, 03 Jan 2010 17:23:06 +0000

Thanks for the edits, Guy. Will keep checking your feed.

By: Guy McPherson

Guy McPherson — Sun, 03 Jan 2010 03:16:25 +0000

Chad, I benefit from these actions only if I’m joined by a lot of like-minded people. Ditto for all future generations. Otherwise, we run out of habitat for our species by mid-century, according to the latest, conservative forecasts. Certainly other species and cultures benefit from the termination of western civilization.

I care about the living planet for reasons far beyond myself. I feel a moral obligation to maintain conditions conducive to life on Earth for the sake of future generations of all species. Sadly, I’m joined in this moral stance by about a dozen people, none of whom are financially rich or politically powerful.

And you? If you disagree, why? Do you want to destroy the living planet, as well as conditions conducive to human life? How quickly? Is mid-century soon enough for you? Is the cost to current and future humans, and all other living species, worth your comfort?

My questions for you are not rhetorical.

By: Chad Woolley

Chad Woolley — Sun, 03 Jan 2010 00:52:55 +0000

I’ll follow up on commenter dave’s thoughts with some semi-rhetorical questions:

1. Whom are you benefiting with these actions? Yourself? Current humanity? Future humanity? Other species present and future? The rest of the earth (inorganic material)?

2. Why (do you care about any of the above)?

By: dave

dave — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 22:06:19 +0000

i tend to think the commenter Cherenkov has the most enlightened outlook here. recognizing one’s impotence to affect the kind of radical change that seems “necessary” by whatever enviro-economic-human rights standards creates a feedback loop that totally contradicts evangelizing any particular route to radical activism. if anything, the tempting invitation to throw out your bills and overuse the resources already doomed to dry up should only make it harder on your conscience that people elsewhere in the world are thirsty and oppressed and that you’re engaging in some mind-fuck “rebellion” that only yourself and a few pretentious others might appreciate because you each have the good fortune of being born in the glorious gluttonous west.

is it the goal to save a handful of fortunate, white, self-righteous, educated westerners from the violent collapse because they had the foresight to move to a little piece of farmland (which they could afford)? or is it just applying one’s personal sense of vengeance and justice to the gentry of their own nation-state? either way, no virtuous big-picture aims i can decipher…

Cherenkov pointed out that if you kick back and relax you’ll still make the same sacrifice as the system unfolds. i agree, and its not as if fighting and dying for some tiny Pyrrhic victory is going to stop the train. you will not be making a noble sacrifice by dying to tear down a social system that is taking the species with it anyway. if logic and natural selection are truly paramount to your system of thinking, enjoy your life – learn, grow, and be aware – but don’t go kamikaze for anyone. even your own ego.

By: Robert Atack

Robert Atack — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 21:03:44 +0000

If parents truly loved their children, they would do the only thing they could to try and help them survive what is now here, and that is for every parent to commit suicide, a sudden population drop of 3 billion will not reverse our current situation, but it will make a bit more wiggle room for the non breeding victims, who through no fault of their own have ended up alive on earth. I didn’t ask to be born, no one forced my parents to have me, it was their choice not mine, they should be the first to pay for their mistakes. They dumped me in this shit hole, to do the best I can to survive.
I can at least hold my head high, in as much as I haven’t added to the problem or sadness (apart from my use of everything available to stay alive)
So thanks for nothing mum and dad with your ego lead production, and that goes for my idiot brother and sister with their 2 kids each. … and one grand child …… god help it.
Giving birth should be a criminal act, if logic dictated it would be.
We are dumber than yeast.

By: Privileged

Privileged — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 03:32:02 +0000

I still read your blog Guy. I love your suggestions. I’m reading some Jensen myself and wouldn’t ya know it Nikki Craft contacted me about a picture of mine. Here is her creative result.

http://www.nikkicraft.com/genocide/