Comments on: City living in a post-peak world http://guymcpherson.com/2010/02/city-living-in-a-post-peak-world/ Humans have tinkered with the natural world since we appeared on the evolutionary stage. Our days certainly seem numbered: As the home team, Nature bats last. Mon, 21 May 2012 10:01:17 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: What works: Caveats for a series of essays – Guy McPherson's blog http://guymcpherson.com/2010/02/city-living-in-a-post-peak-world/#comment-3192 What works: Caveats for a series of essays – Guy McPherson's blog Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:38:56 +0000 http://guymcpherson.com/?p=372#comment-3192 [...] not be writing about the myth of sustainability, as I’ve done before, choosing instead to focus on durability. Sustainability implies we can sustain, essentially [...] [...] not be writing about the myth of sustainability, as I’ve done before, choosing instead to focus on durability. Sustainability implies we can sustain, essentially [...]

]]> By: vera http://guymcpherson.com/2010/02/city-living-in-a-post-peak-world/#comment-2827 vera Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:45:41 +0000 http://guymcpherson.com/?p=372#comment-2827 You are tossing the baby out. Small towns have a future. Think those cute medieval urban places surrounded by fields and gardens. During the medieval warm period. Looks pretty sustainable to me. Mesopotamia... they were huge. I am talking only big enough to be able to mostly feed themselves from nearby land. (Which of course means limits, not paving over the land to fuel growth.) There is a theory that people started moving to towns because towns were better defensible, once the human crunch brought more conflict. Could well be a salient point in the future. You are tossing the baby out. Small towns have a future. Think those cute medieval urban places surrounded by fields and gardens. During the medieval warm period. Looks pretty sustainable to me.

Mesopotamia… they were huge. I am talking only big enough to be able to mostly feed themselves from nearby land. (Which of course means limits, not paving over the land to fuel growth.) There is a theory that people started moving to towns because towns were better defensible, once the human crunch brought more conflict. Could well be a salient point in the future.

]]> By: Dan Treecraft http://guymcpherson.com/2010/02/city-living-in-a-post-peak-world/#comment-2825 Dan Treecraft Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:40:10 +0000 http://guymcpherson.com/?p=372#comment-2825 Big cities? Small cities? NONE SUSTAINABLE ! How big were the "cities" of ancient Mesopotamia? I doubt if any were as big as Spokane, where Guy's brother, James, and I live. I like the line that Derrick Jensen likes: "Forests precede us. Deserts dog our heels." Passing fad, cities. Guy writes right. P-f-f-f f f f f f f-tt ! ! ! Us been here just about long enough to burn this place down. It took a couple million years to get up to full burn. Houston..., we got.... IGNITION. Big cities? Small cities? NONE SUSTAINABLE ! How big were the “cities” of ancient Mesopotamia? I doubt if any were as big as Spokane, where Guy’s brother, James, and I live.

I like the line that Derrick Jensen likes: “Forests precede us. Deserts dog our heels.”

Passing fad, cities. Guy writes right. P-f-f-f f f f f f f-tt ! ! !

Us been here just about long enough to burn this place down. It took a couple million years to get up to full burn. Houston…, we got…. IGNITION.

]]> By: vera http://guymcpherson.com/2010/02/city-living-in-a-post-peak-world/#comment-2797 vera Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:07:56 +0000 http://guymcpherson.com/?p=372#comment-2797 Of course, a land reform would not hurt. But I am not holding my breath. Of course, a land reform would not hurt. But I am not holding my breath.

]]> By: vera http://guymcpherson.com/2010/02/city-living-in-a-post-peak-world/#comment-2796 vera Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:04:02 +0000 http://guymcpherson.com/?p=372#comment-2796 Frank, Santorini blew 1600 BC... bronze age Myceanae were just getting started then. I think it badly damaged Crete, but not the other more outlying areas so much. I think environment was key there. And even though Greece recovered from Bronze collapse, and went thru its golden age... by the time of about 50 BC, it was a ruin again, I read records that say Athens was a city of statues, and Roman soldiers found no shortage of abandoned dwellings to occupy. Huge population crash... or flight. Vertalio: I am delighted you like it. I think the central European village I was describing emerged like that from time immemorial (organically)... the commons were first common, then they belonged to the church or nobles, and then with the land reform, came to the village. The design is ancient... it works. I think the way Americans do property is insane... all the damn fences and rude signs... I chalk it up to the madness of early land greed when surveyors were hired to just carve it all up like a golden goose. :( None of western Europe is like that... And then people complain why is it that so many folks have such a disconnection from the land! When all they see is KEEP OUT! Hello? All it really takes is buying up a large tract, or combining several farms (time to buy some CAFOs, ey? :-) and starting a hamlet. Basically, it's a combination of commons with private ownership and responsibility in good measure. When a field is part of the commons, even if in private holding for the moment, the neighbors are not likely to let you pour all sorts of poisons on it, or do soil-mining instead of husbandry, when their own field is next door. Frank, Santorini blew 1600 BC… bronze age Myceanae were just getting started then. I think it badly damaged Crete, but not the other more outlying areas so much. I think environment was key there. And even though Greece recovered from Bronze collapse, and went thru its golden age… by the time of about 50 BC, it was a ruin again, I read records that say Athens was a city of statues, and Roman soldiers found no shortage of abandoned dwellings to occupy. Huge population crash… or flight.

Vertalio: I am delighted you like it. I think the central European village I was describing emerged like that from time immemorial (organically)… the commons were first common, then they belonged to the church or nobles, and then with the land reform, came to the village. The design is ancient… it works.

I think the way Americans do property is insane… all the damn fences and rude signs… I chalk it up to the madness of early land greed when surveyors were hired to just carve it all up like a golden goose. :( None of western Europe is like that… And then people complain why is it that so many folks have such a disconnection from the land! When all they see is KEEP OUT! Hello?

All it really takes is buying up a large tract, or combining several farms (time to buy some CAFOs, ey? :-) and starting a hamlet. Basically, it’s a combination of commons with private ownership and responsibility in good measure. When a field is part of the commons, even if in private holding for the moment, the neighbors are not likely to let you pour all sorts of poisons on it, or do soil-mining instead of husbandry, when their own field is next door.

]]> By: vertalio http://guymcpherson.com/2010/02/city-living-in-a-post-peak-world/#comment-2794 vertalio Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:01:21 +0000 http://guymcpherson.com/?p=372#comment-2794 Touche on the humanure, vera. Although it's rather full of pharmaceuticals these days, there is plenty of it. Lettuce might be especially somatic, beets good for sexual prowess, and mushrooms...well, you never mind. That village sounds sublime. How to get there from here? It implies a changed view of 'property' and of possession, an acceptance of some socialist values, and a people making decisions for themselves, among themselves. What of lords and priests? They won't take it lying down, save with the powerless who work for them. Touche on the humanure, vera. Although it’s rather full of pharmaceuticals these days, there is plenty of it. Lettuce might be especially somatic, beets good for sexual prowess, and mushrooms…well, you never mind.

That village sounds sublime. How to get there from here? It implies a changed view of ‘property’ and of possession, an acceptance of some socialist values, and a people making decisions for themselves, among themselves. What of lords and priests? They won’t take it lying down, save with the powerless who work for them.

]]> By: Frank Mezek http://guymcpherson.com/2010/02/city-living-in-a-post-peak-world/#comment-2793 Frank Mezek Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:58:48 +0000 http://guymcpherson.com/?p=372#comment-2793 Furthur reference to my above post: See "Fire in the Sea:The Santorini Volcano:Natural History and the Legend of Atlantis" by Walter Friedrich. Frank Mezek Furthur reference to my above post:

See “Fire in the Sea:The Santorini Volcano:Natural History and the
Legend of Atlantis” by Walter Friedrich.

Frank Mezek

]]> By: Frank Mezek http://guymcpherson.com/2010/02/city-living-in-a-post-peak-world/#comment-2792 Frank Mezek Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:44:03 +0000 http://guymcpherson.com/?p=372#comment-2792 Reply to Sean Taylor: Many think the Bronze Age collapse was caused by a catastrophic volcanic eruption,one of the most important pieces of evidence for this is the giant caldera at Santorini. Greg Breneman: I'm in Sun City,maybe if there are enough of us we could have a local get together. Frank Mezek Sun City,Arizona Reply to Sean Taylor:

Many think the Bronze Age collapse was caused by a catastrophic volcanic
eruption,one of the most important pieces of evidence for this is the giant caldera at Santorini.

Greg Breneman:

I’m in Sun City,maybe if there are enough of us we could have a local get together.

Frank Mezek
Sun City,Arizona

]]> By: vera http://guymcpherson.com/2010/02/city-living-in-a-post-peak-world/#comment-2791 vera Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:02:57 +0000 http://guymcpherson.com/?p=372#comment-2791 Oh, and the cities have no lack of manure! Humanure. It could become one of their exports... like in the old days. Oh, and the cities have no lack of manure! Humanure. It could become one of their exports… like in the old days.

]]> By: vera http://guymcpherson.com/2010/02/city-living-in-a-post-peak-world/#comment-2790 vera Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:58:27 +0000 http://guymcpherson.com/?p=372#comment-2790 Well, the pattern I am familiar re villages is this: humans live in close proximity by each owning a strip of land adjacent to each other. Narrow, stretching from the road towards back, towards the fields. A narrow dwelling, then the horse stable, then the shed and hayloft. Pigsty and stable and manure heap on the other side... a paved yard stretches toward the back where there is a good sized barn. Past the barn, bees, orchard, garden. Gate out to the commons which surround the village. And each family either buys or leases various fields situated within the commons. The paths, hedges, woods, river are all freely accessible (though families may also lease stretches of the woods for firewood). Nobody is excluded from walking anywhere except near the houses. This is the most pleasant and workable arrangement I have ever seen. And because the village has some basic stuff available, a school, a pub, a community hall, a store... there is no need for the farmers to go to town all the time. Well, the pattern I am familiar re villages is this: humans live in close proximity by each owning a strip of land adjacent to each other. Narrow, stretching from the road towards back, towards the fields. A narrow dwelling, then the horse stable, then the shed and hayloft. Pigsty and stable and manure heap on the other side… a paved yard stretches toward the back where there is a good sized barn. Past the barn, bees, orchard, garden. Gate out to the commons which surround the village. And each family either buys or leases various fields situated within the commons. The paths, hedges, woods, river are all freely accessible (though families may also lease stretches of the woods for firewood). Nobody is excluded from walking anywhere except near the houses. This is the most pleasant and workable arrangement I have ever seen. And because the village has some basic stuff available, a school, a pub, a community hall, a store… there is no need for the farmers to go to town all the time.

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