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Media update: audio, video, print, and “print”

Mon, Feb 4, 2013

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Audio

I was interviewed for The Refreshment Center’s radio show on Friday, 1 February 2013. The interview is embedded here, although most of my interview was lost to a techno-disaster. I’m scheduled for another visit in a few weeks.

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Video

Below I include two short clips used in the making of Michael Sosebee’s forthcoming film, Somewhere in New Mexico before the End of Time. I don’t know whether these clips will be included in the final version of the film. If you’d like to support the creation and distribution of this film, please give me a shout via email (guy.r.mcpherson@gmail.com).

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Print

The following two publications are available in print media, and I have an essay in each of them:

McPherson, Guy. 2012. A life out of empire. Pages 481-487 in Keith Farnish’s book, Underminers: A Practical Guide for Radical Change. Published under a Creative Commons License. Electronic copy is here. Kickstarter campaign for printing and distribution of this book is linked here.

February 2013 Beyond industrial civilization, Earthlines 4:22-24 (pdf of contents here). My essay is reviewed here.

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“Print”

I’ve posted the following information at Joe Romm’s website, Think (sic) Progress (sic). Most of this information is old news to readers of Nature Bats Last, and I posted the information in the form of comments to two essays (one here, the other here). I posted comments because an earlier comment cited my work (actually, work in which I was citing others) and in response, Joe referred to my comment as “Tin-foil hat stuff.” As he’s done in the past, Romm blocked my comments. Were I a conspiracy theorist, I’d suspect him of being a disinformation specialist.

According to informed analysis of BP Energy Outlook 2030, we’re headed for a planet 4 C warmer than we experienced at the dawn of the industrial revolution by 2030. Or maybe it’s 6 C, depending on our collective greed. In any case, the projection is less dire than the one foreseen by Paul Beckwith. The report concludes peak oil was a red herring, which it wasn’t and isn’t, but it’s clearly too late to ward off human extinction in the near future. As we’ve known for many years — in this case, the relevant article from the Guardian is more than four years old — on a planet 4 C hotter, all we can prepare for is extinction. Although these two reports are found in the mainstream media, I’m sure forthcoming comments will accuse me of heinous behavior, to which I will readily admit with ample doses of shame and humility.

The co-founders of 350.org, including James Hansen and Bill McKibben, are ignorant or disingenuous with the very name of the organization. I’m guessing they’re lying because surely they know about these two tidbits:

1. Only complete economic collapse prevents runaway greenhouse, as pointed out by Tim Garrett in a paper published in Climatic Change in 2009.

2. About the same time, a paper published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences indicated Earth’s atmosphere will not experience carbon dioxide levels below the current level for at least the next thousand years. In other words, 350 ppm is hopium of the worst kind.

We’re done, and even the Obama administration knew it way back in 2009. The AOSIS briefing linked and described here was clear about 350 ppm as a death sentence.

I’ve been accused of shouting “Fire!” in a theater. I plead guilty, but the world is on fire and, like most mainstream scientists, you’re taking the approach of too conservative (hence, lethal). Calling me irresponsible for reporting relevant information is exactly the response I’ve come to expect from people who are neck-deep in denial. Such comments remind me of a prescient line from George Orwell: “Truth is treason in an empire of lies.”

Reality is finally catching up to my decade-old prediction about human extinction. Abundant details can be found in my many essays (this one provides a recent overview). Instead of turning away from data and models, I take my advice from Carl Sagan. As such, I refuse to dilute the truth for the sake of comfort: “It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”

. . .

For me, one of the particularly bothersome aspects of our climate-change predicament is the relentless bargaining by people who should know better. Somehow, I doubt we’re going to live underground, in the dark, and manage to grow food and generate water for ourselves. Then there are those who believe collapse will accelerate global warming. Could be, although I doubt it would accelerate the extinction crisis, environmental decay, or myriad other predicaments in which we’re enmeshed. And I can hardly imagine a situation worse than the one we’re in — except, of course, the forthcoming climate-driven extinction event — and yet we add to the worsening predicament every day.

By what mechanisms does climate change become climate chaos? Rapidly increasing temperature, along with rapidly increasing atmospheric carbon dioxide has two primary impacts of note. Firstly, the resulting ocean acidification is likely to kill nearly every marine species, including phytoplankton (i.e., food and half the planet’s oxygen). Secondly, the resulting extremes in temperature likely will kill nearly all land plants (i.e., food and the other half of Earth’s oxygen). Additional concerns include wet-bulb temperatures high enough to induce death in mammals (the large-bodied ones will go first, and the tropics will be impacted before the temperate regions), loss of planetary ice (never mind albedo, I’m thinking about fresh water throughout the world’s temperate regions), and the millions of tiny organisms comprising living soil that will be unable to migrate rapidly enough to keep up with changes in temperature and moisture.

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353 Responses to “Media update: audio, video, print, and “print””

  1. Privileged Says:

    Organic grocery stores should carry the day.

  2. Sabine Says:

    Again Guy, what clear-sighted writing. I really agree with you about the “relentless bargaining by people that should know better”. That’s well put. Please, keep on writing for as long as it’s possible. None of us here reading your blog need a saviour, but it’s really good to know that there are others out there not hooked on hopium.
    Here, in “Old” Hampshire, my garden is already full of snowdrops, crocuses,violets and primroses, and birds are singing their mating songs. For most of them it’s far too early. But there they are, it’s another spring for them and me. I hope I can always be like them: happy to live in the now. And that’s my only hope.

  3. BenjaminTheDonkey Says:

    .
    A luxury trip on denial
    Is less of a mental trial
    Than to be in a bind
    And end up resigned
    With no usual sociable smile.

    Nevertheless, when you compile
    All doom’s factors into one file,
    You see choice is confined
    To shit or go blind,
    And not much in life seems worthwhile.

  4. Gail Says:

    The bad news – methane spiking in the arctic, for only one example – is piling up so fast it’s impossible to keep up with it all. And then it’s countered in more than equal measure by the scientific, technological hopium, and conspiracy theories, and religious fervor. Guy’s presentations are about the only source of unvarnished truth. Thanks Guy!

    Since I am concerned about forest dieback from tropospheric ozone, I was interested to find a study that was published before Copenhagen, which noted that CO2 is not being absorbed as quickly as it used to be.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/world-on-course-for-catastrophic-6deg-rise-reveal-scientists-1822396.html

    “Meanwhile, the scientists have for the first time detected a failure of the Earth’s natural ability to absorb man-made carbon dioxide released into the air. They found significant evidence that more man-made CO2 is staying in the atmosphere to exacerbate the greenhouse effect because the natural “carbon sinks” that have absorbed it over previous decades on land and sea are beginning to fail, possibly as a result of rising global temperatures.”

    As forests and phytoplankton die off, that is exactly what you’d expect. More recently, Nicholas Stern was quoted as follows:

    “Looking back, I underestimated the risks. The planet and the atmosphere seem to be absorbing less carbon than we expected, and emissions are rising pretty strongly. Some of the effects are coming through more quickly than we thought then.”

    Another fascinating question is whether the lead author of that study would stand by this observation printed in the article:

    “Professor Le Quéré said that Copenhagen was the last chance of coming to a global agreement that would curb carbon-dioxide emissions on a time-course that would hopefully stabilise temperature rises to within the danger threshold. ‘The Copenhagen conference next month is in my opinion the last chance to stabilise climate at C above pre-industrial levels in a smooth and organised way,’ she said.”

    “‘If the agreement is too weak, or the commitments not respected, it is not 2.5C or 3C we will get: it’s 5C or 6C – that is the path we’re on. The timescales here are extremely tight for what is needed to stabilise the climate at C,’ she said.”

    Since last-chance Copenhagen was a colossal FAIL, I take that to mean we are on a path to 5C or 6C.

  5. ulvfugl Says:

    I wish I could make a case with the same compelling logic as Superman1 sometimes does in his comments.
    I’m getting sick of all the defeatism and negativity and masochistic ‘we’re all to blame’ crap.

    Seems to me, we all know what the problem is. We all know what the cause of the problem is. We all know who is causing the problem, it’s just a small percentage of the total human population.

    We know how to fix the problem, because we know how to fix ecosystems and make sustainable communities. So why aren’t we doing that ? Why aren’t we saying to people, either help, or get out of the way ?
    Or, even better, why aren’t we getting serious, and saying, get the hell out of the way, or we’ll kill you, because you’re killing all of us with your stupidity ?

    That’s what we’re being told by them and their thugs, isn’t it ? Accept the destruction of the biosphere and your future, or else we will imprison or kill you.

    Why is everybody willing to accept that ?

    Is it that things have not got desperate enough yet ? Or what ?

  6. ulvfugl Says:

    Long before we showed up on the scene, there were wetlands that made dirty water clean, prairies that grew sustainable food crops and termites that built living spaces capable of maintaining a nearly steady internal temperature year round. These and other natural systems, developed over thousands or millions of years, are amazingly adept at dealing with the sort of logistical concerns humans face every day—whereas many of the workarounds we’ve found for the problems of our lives are inefficient or overly expensive or carry on the oh-so-human tradition of causing more problems than they solve.

    http://ensia.com/features/urban-infrastructure-what-would-nature-do/

  7. pat Says:

    I’m curious, what does “ulvfugl” mean? how do you pronounce it? I’m not new to NBL but I don’t comment much…

  8. ulvfugl Says:

    Hello pat, you don’t need to pronounce it, just put ‘U’, if that helps ;-)

    If you really want to know… it’s the Norwegian translation of wolfbird,

    ulv being wolf, from the same root, pronounced much the same.

    fugl being bird, from the same root as German vogel and English fowl.

    Wolfbird is a Scandinavian and N. American Indian name for the raven.

  9. B9K9 Says:

    Guy, Guy, Guy, you should really come visit & spend a day or so with me. I could quickly get you up to speed as to how the world really works. Long ago, Upton Sinclair said it best:

    “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”

    My oldest is just becoming aware of how marketing & advertising is merely a device to cause people to ‘consume’ some good/service that they previously didn’t realize was crucial to their happiness & well being.

    Oh, Bernays (Freud’s nephew & prime architect behind convincing young Americans that it was their solemn & patriotic duty to give up their lives charging German machine gun nests in WWI), you magnificent bastard. Patron saint (oxymoron, I know) of Goebbels & modern all propaganda. Of course, his activities were financed by the same-old, same-old ‘reptiles’ who only exist in the fevered imaginations of conspiracy theorists. LOL

    Anyway, back to the matter at hand. Whenever he brings it up as sort of an “a-ha moment”, I take the opportunity to expand upon the theme with concrete, specific examples, namely, the very lifestyle he currently enjoys.

    In very simple terms, I state that every single family in our suburban paradise by the beach is completely locked into the status quo. To buck the system is to miss a mortgage payment, to not have a stylish new car, to not enjoy a second home, or take regular vacations to some exotic locale(s).

    What is the alternative? To have financial worries? To be thrown out into the street? To be forced into competing for a job that pays a fraction of one’s current position? Yeah, right. What I emphasize is that people will do ANYTHING to maintain what they have – they will lie, cheat steal, exploit the unwary, and even kill if it came down to it. (I leave out the murder part.)

    The scientists who you criticize in all probability know the truth. The problem is, unlike you, the 99% cannot live below their means to the degree necessary in which to store a sufficient nest egg in order to buck the system. Lacking that luxury, they MUST tow the line … or else.

    You guys should really study the history of usury & debt slavery. Why isn’t it taught from 5th grade on? Why are smart students like BC nurse prof routed into certain academic pursuits only to find out many, many years the chilling truth of how the system really works?

  10. Kathy C Says:

    Guy As such, I refuse to dilute the truth for the sake of comfort: “It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”

    As I thought, however much it hurts to see, in the end seeing is better.

  11. yuma paul m Says:

    As usual Guy, a very clear and concise picture of truth.
    I’ve got my map and I’ll be seeing you tomorrow at some point.

  12. Mike Sosebee Says:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/sosebee2?feature=mhee

    I wanted to give an update on the film “Somewhere In New Mexico…” In Oct/November 2012 the talented Mike Sliwa with his gracious wife Karen came out and Mike spent hundreds of hours sitting in front of a CRT watching raw footage. He worked with me and Chris Chen for a month to try get things ready for a soft premiere. We premiered it in Las Vegas at the Roots Community Garden outdoors under the stars. Guy came out for the premiere with his wife and spoke after the film. Chris Chen, an editor I’d been working with in San Diego, came out with his wife Maria (a talented filmmaker in her own right) for the premiere as well.

    After the film we retired to a small room and Guy spoke. I got some feedback on the film (mostly postitive) with the exception that I left out any hope of industrial society somehow reforming itself into hip local urbanists, vegans of course, eating gluten free vegan in Vegas. Yeah Baby! Some of the responses were hysterical (Not the funny kind). One young lady came to me and started crying. I’ll put together a short video of the event later. My intention was to cut it down to about 90 minutes; it ran long at just over two hours. Then in November I was listening to Guys speech on Radio Ecoshock that he had given in Louisville KY. I had taped Guy giving the speech for the first time in June. He had given the speech dozens of times since then and he had it down. The speech was from a video posted by Ben Evans, the director for the film YERT (Your Environmental Road Trip). I watched it over and over and followed up on every source guy listed and it was all there. That’s when it hit me between the eyes: It’s fuckin’ over.

    I then asked Ben permission to use the footage for the intentionally rough videos that you see above. I’m now closing out the film with an edited version of Guy’s presentation. I guess it’s become a horror film.

    The DVD should be printed by March and we’ll plan on a public premeire in Tuscon hopefully at the U of A campus in May/June. Mike Sliwa also suggested another venue so we’ll have to do what seems to make the most sense.

    I’m writing the closing narration now. Any ideas ? (Yes I’m asking!) Less than 500 words:

    Q: What do you say when you tell the audience that we’re going away and the disease is terminal?
    Hint: A good bedside manner might be useful.

    If you post them on the facebook page, “Somewhere In New Mexico Before The End Of Time”, we’ll award the author that we use (not necessarily the best) with an autographed film poster and DVD. Thanks for your support. Mike

  13. ulvfugl Says:

    The second video says it is blocked in my country ( UK ) on copyright grounds because it contains material belonging to Channel 5

    @ B9K9

    ..they will lie, cheat steal, exploit the unwary, and even kill if it came down to it.

    War By Deception 2013

  14. ogardener Says:

    <a href="http://guymcpherson.com/2013/02/media-update-audio-video-print-and-print/#comment-59569"@Gail

    “Since I am concerned about forest dieback from tropospheric ozone, I was interested to find a study that was published before Copenhagen, which noted that CO2 is not being absorbed as quickly as it used to be.”

    Effects of Atmospheric CO2 Enrichment on the Growth and
    Mineral Nutrition of Quercus alba Seedlings in Nutrient-Poor
    soil

    “It is difficult to extend the responses of seedlings in controlled environments over 40 weeks to predictions of the responses of forest trees over their life spans. Nevertheless, this study establishes that growth enhancement from CO2 enrichment is possible under nutrient-deficient conditions. The mechanisms of response are likely to vary with species, soils, and nutrients. Increases in NUE, as those that occurred in this study with N, could have deleterious effects over the longer term that could limit the growth enhancement from CO2 enrichment. For example, increased shoot production in the next growing season, which was suggested by increased bud mass, may be limited by the decreased supply of N in storage tissue. The availability of N in soil may decline because of poorer litter quality. The relationship of the short-term physiological responses demonstrated in this study to longer-term aspects of forest productivity has been considered elsewhere (19). Carbon-nutrient linkages at both physiological and ecological levels should be an important component in the assessment of the responses of forest vegetation to rising atmospheric CO2.”

  15. Gail Says:

    Mike, I’m looking forward to the final version. I really hope you will make it easily available to everyone. I get so frustrated when movies like this one:

    http://calloflife.org/

    that look really fascinating and are there to ostensibly warn everyone of our dangerously unstustainable trajectory – but then there’s no way to see them other than go to the occasional rare screening in a major metrolpolitan area, or buy the dvd – and sometimes there isn’t even a dvd. They only end up preaching to the choir that way.

    If the object is to raise funds, wouldn’t it be better to have a minimal charge that can be paid online to watch it on the computer? It seems to me that filmmakers would get so many more sales that way, that volume would make up for higher prices on dvds – and vastly greater numbers of people would be exposed to the message.

    Or maybe someone can enlighten me why it can’t work that way.

  16. John Andersen Says:

    Jim Kunstler’s term, “the psychology of previous investment”, fits well here, and goes some way to explaining why people are stuck in a state of inaction, unwilling or unable to harmonize their lifestyle with the laws of physics.

  17. dan allen Says:

    Hey Guy. You’re a fantastic speaker, by the way — though I certainly hope you’re wrong on the ‘game over’ part (while suspecting you may well be right.)

    In any case, what do you make of Hansen’s papers that say this: if we cut CO2 emissions right now by say 6-10% per year, temps would go over 1degC for a few decades but then fall back. He’s assuming that by doing this we avoid disastrous arctic/peat/forest out-gassing, which may or may not be true.

    In your opinion, why is Hansen’s analysis wrong and that 2009 paper right? (Again, I’m not saying you’re definitely wrong — just wondering why you think Hansen is.)

    take care — Dan :-)

  18. Guy McPherson Says:

    Thanks for your complimentary comment, dan allen. I’ve missed your cogent comments in this space.

    I suspect Hansen is correct. And, although it may appear inconsistent, I suspect Tim Garrett is correct, too. After all, we’ve been mired in an economic recession since December 2007. During every subsequent year, the world has set a new record for carbon dioxide emissions. The record of 2008 was eclipsed by the record of 2009, which was eclipsed by the record of 2010, which was eclipsed by the record of 2011 (we don’t yet know about 2012, but I’m willing to hazard an unpopular guess). In other words, I see no way to reduce emissions by 6-10% per year without complete collapse. At the very least, that trick would require tremendous leadership, which clearly has been lacking for a long time.

  19. Charlotte Says:

    I’m here in Vermont with several dozen browser tabs open on various real estate websites. We’ve been looking for a little piece of land upon which to hunker down for the collapse. The plan is to turn it into a permaculture farm.

    But then I returned to Gail’s excellent “Wit’s End” blog via the link in the comments above, and was reminded what ozone is doing to plants and trees. And this blog, which reminded me that even the soil microbes won’t survive this.

    At this point, buying land and planting trees seems like it may be fruitless. (Hah, ironic pun.)

    Should I forget about sinking my retirement into land, and instead throw it at our debt so we don’t end up in debtors’ prison? Or should we go ahead with buying land, as it’s probably the only way to feed ourselves in the future?

    I realize that nobody here is a psychic, but I’d appreciate everyone’s thoughts.

  20. pat Says:

    Charlotte:

    The problem is the timeline, nobody knows how much time we have. Will the cities begin burning tomorrow?, next weeek? The most consistent advice I’ve seen is this: if you are in a city, get out as soon as possible. If riots start and you are stuck inside the city, you may not get out.

  21. Gail Says:

    Charlotte, I would just do whatever you WANT to do. It’s not possible to prepare for the unknown and unknowable. I quit planting trees and even annuals in the garden as of 2009 – but this spring (thanks to some shared seeds from KathyC!) I’m in the mood to try again, even though I know it’s not going to be ideal.

    Guy, the claim is that the US emissions have gone down in 2012 (see the guardian uk article dated 2/1/13 – us carbon emissions at lowest levels since 1994).

    But here’s the problem:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/01/29/china-is-burning-nearly-as-much-coal-as-the-rest-of-the-world-combined/

  22. Kathy C Says:

    Mike you say “All life ends in death. The ending of life on earth was a given, as the sun will do us in at some point in the future. Each human gets at most 120 years, each dog at most 20, each bacteria days. What faces us is not something we could ever avoid. What faces us is untimely death with no genes going forward. It has always been the case that we could cease living feeling we had lived well, or with regret for those things we could have done but did not do. Imagine a Dr. just told you you have six months to live. What would you do with those months. Whatever that would be, start doing that now.”

    Something like that?

  23. Guy McPherson Says:

    Gail, I was referring to emissions at the world level, which have increased 3-6.5% annually since 2008. U.S. emissions declined because the industrial economy is severely suffering here. Manufacturing has nearly ceased, and unemployed people don’t drive to work.

  24. The REAL Dr. House Says:

    Charlotte, maybe you should consider both options: pay off your debt, and then go and join one of the groups of people who already have their land and are making a go of it. Not easy, I know, but then again, nothing about what we’re facing is going to be easy.

    I haven’t looked in a while, but I think there are several announcements in the classified section of this site in which there are those looking for partners/helpers/community members, etc.

  25. Kathy C Says:

    Jay Hanson recently held a seminar featuring Guy on his discussion site America2Point0. His next seminar will be in a few weeks. It will be to discuss the new paper coming out by Richard Duncan – Olduvai Theory,Heading into the Gorge. The discussion site is open to new members – per Jay – All they have to do is send a message to
    America2Point0-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

  26. Kathy C Says:

    Richard Duncan’s last posting of his theory can be found at http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc1602/article_1362.shtml

  27. Robin Datta Says:

    A hymn for the prospect of extinction?

    The Hymn of Samadhi

    Lo! The sun is not, nor the comely moon,
    All light extinct; in the great void of space
    Floats shadow-like the image-universe.

    In the void of mind involute, there floats
    The fleeting universe, rises and floats,
    Sinks again, ceaseless, in the current “I”.

    Slowly, slowly, the shadow-multitude
    Entered the primal womb, and flowed ceaseless,
    The only current, the “I am”, “I am”.

    Lo! ‘Tis stopped, ev’n that current flows no more,
    Void merged into void–beyond speech and mind
    Whose heart understands, he verily does.

    - Swami Vivekananda

  28. Gail Says:

    Sorry Guy – I should have been more clear – I was trying to agree with you, by substantiating more recent data.

  29. Mike Sosebee Says:

    Distribution of the film “Somewhere In New Mexico…”: I’m ordering up 1,000 Blu-ray* DVD’s with jackets and inserts including links to the information contained in the film. I’m using Blu-Ray because we want the people who buy these DVD’s to set up showings at their local libraries, churches town centers, pubs…anyplace and begin to have conversations with people you know about what’s going on in the present time. It’s a tough sell. Ask Guy McPherson. As Gabrielle Price said to me once: “Mike how are you going to sell the end of the world?” I guess that’s what it’s about. Put down the hopium and start making plans because the omnicidal beast is loose upon the planet.”

    John Belushi as spoken by John Blutarski: “So far what most of us have been doing is waiting for someone else to do something; yeah…this is what we’ve done our whole fucking lives. It’s time for all of us to come out of the shadows and begin to speak loudly to as many people as you can get in front of. As it is we’re entertaining ourselves to death. Yes you and you and you…what we’re going to have to do is sit in front of other people and try and wake them up from this massive delusion.”

    Each DVD will be $45 plus mailing $4 for a total of $49. Expensive I’m sorry but this is a small run. There are a lot of donors (52) who funded about half of the cost of the film are owed DVD’s and we’re going to distribute it to certain parties asking them to review the film. This is the tough part of being an activist: we need to be a little uncomfortable with this knowledge. As soon as the printing is done I’ll have a pay-pal number. If you send me an e-mail at sosebeetv@cox.net with your name address and e-mail and I’ll reserve a DVD for you.

    *If you use a regular DVD on a theater system it will pixilate.

  30. alexander hawk Says:

    “one of the penalties of an ecological education is that one lives alone in a world of wounds. Much of the damage inflicted on land is quite invisible to laymen. An ecologist must either harden his shell and make believe that the consequences of science are none of his business, or he must be the doctor who sees the marks of death in a community that believes itself well and does not want to be told otherwise.”

    aldo leopold, round river 1953

    guy, thank you for your dedication. i am very grateful. you are a decent man. it makes me cry.

  31. Daniel Says:

    Hello Charlotte,

    You asked:

    “Should I forget about sinking my retirement into land, and instead throw it at our debt so we don’t end up in debtors’ prison? Or should we go ahead with buying land, as it’s probably the only way to feed ourselves in the future?…..I realize that nobody here is a psychic, but I’d appreciate everyone’s thoughts.”

    To attempt to answer your question, “we” would probably need to know a few more details. Such as: your age, skill sets as they pertain to homesteading and how much money you have to invest. All three greatly compound each other, and determine what your best options are.

    If you’re somehow young with lots of money to burn, then why not go out and buy some land, and give it a whirl. However, you’re in debt and close to retirement, so I assume you haven’t too much to fritter away chasing after a dream, only to potentially throw it into a money pit. And that’s exactly how you need to be looking at the first many years of your homesteading endeavor.

    It seems many here, echo each other, and so I’m going to echo what The Real Dr. House has already mentioned. If you’re not necessarily young, and haven’t enormous amounts of money to throw away, and the only reason you’re “honestly” looking to purchase land, is in context to collapse preparedness, then I would highly recommend you NOT buy any undeveloped property.

    Basically, it’s a little late in the game to just be starting out.

    Instead, look to partner up with existing functioning farms in your area, who might be in need of a financial infusion to either help sustain them, or expand their operation. And look to do this in exchange for any number of collective agreements that would allow you to permanently live and work on the farm.

    There are probably many farms in your area, who are close to being insolvent simply because of an oppressive mortgage in a declining economy. Offer to greatly reduce their mortgage payments, and they could be very amiable towards rethinking collective living arrangements.

    The problem with this approach, is it seriously lacks the whole romantic back-to-the-land mythos that compels most, if not all, urbanite permaculture dreams.

    But, above all else, and I write this knowing virtually nothing about your background or circumstances, and I’m just going off your basic Vermont description. If you are only now beginning to think about “collapse preparedness”, and your thinking is something akin to: collapse is coming-cities bad-rural good-lights go out-people starve-don’t want to die–so we must grow food–therefore we must own land. Then I would highly suggest–and here I’m only going to be echoing Kathy C–that you completely abandon every idea of what you think collapse “eventually means”, and reframe the whole concept of collapse in context to what would be the most fulfilling and ethical life you could be living right now, before the world goes dark.

    Because whatever idea you currently have in regards to what you think you actually need to be prepared for, chances are, by the time that ever elusive moment arrives, you won’t be even remotely prepared for it…….simply because all of humanity, isn’t, nor will we ever be, prepared for what is coming.

    Even if you somehow wind up being among the incredibly small percentage of people who are capable of providing most of their annual caloric requirements yourselves, there will still be a multitude of critical inputs you will most likely still need from “the outside”, which without them, you will quickly come to a dead end. That is, unless you have an enormous amount of land and all the equipment required to fabricate whatever is needed. And for the same reason why even the most hearty frontier men and women of a by-gone era, eventually needed to re-up certain essentials at their local trading posts, any modern homestead, is tied to urban commerce for any number of things.

    I’m sorry if this is coming across as being overly cynical, but there is an enormous amount of hopium and romanticism as to modern day homesteading that is based on a mountain of false presumptions.

    Case in point, and this is only one of an ever growing list: With only several more years of Arctic melting, we could easily be closing in on a diminished temperature gradient that will eventually render a majority of the north eastern coast of the U.S. untenable to short term survival, as ever increasing extreme weather events gradually take their toll. Which IMO, makes Vermont not the best long term option. But then again, I no longer think in terms of long term.

    But even more importantly, and which seems to be something even many of us dyed-in-the-wool collapseniks willfully ignore, is that the whole concept of “preparedness”, is nothing more than an idea, based on what we want to be prepared for. However, when the time finally arrives, where you need to actually rely on your homestead for basic sustenance, meaning global food riots have collapsed the distribution of goods and services, the collapse of the electrical grid won’t be far behind. And once that goes…..well, it will probably only take a couple of months for the living to envy the dead.

  32. Daniel Says:

    Kathy C

    I’ve been blocked from Jay’s site, because I questioned him about 9/11….hmmmm

  33. Daniel Says:

    @ B9K9

    You stated: “Guy, Guy, Guy, you should really come visit & spend a day or so with me. I could quickly get you up to speed as to how the world really works. Long ago, Upton Sinclair said it best:

    “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”

    This is your first example of how you would get Guy up to speed? By relaying a quote most of us have heard a hundred times! It’s so common, Al Gore even used it in his movie.

    B9 B9 B9, you might be locked in a nutshell thinking yourself king of the universe, but please spare us your feeble attempts at trying to be condescending.

  34. Leslie Says:

    Guy, can you comment on this. http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/04/a-closer-look-at-moderating-views-of-climate-sensitivity/?ref=science

    It’s a NY times article on new predictions that warming trends won’t go above 3C

  35. Charlotte Says:

    Many thanks to all who responded, you’ve given me a lot to think about!

    More info: I’m 34, my partner is 42, and we’ve both been aware of collapse for several years now. I still have student debt (it seems so stupid now!) and ~$50K in my retirement fund, which I fully expect to evaporate when the banks go boom.

    Having lived in coal/fracking country – West Virginia, we intentionally selected Vermont as the place to move to for when TSHTF, and did so in 2011. Since then, we’ve rented, mostly to make sure that we like Vermont enough to stay. We do, AND we’re tired of dealing with crotchety Vermont landlords who think it’s OK to let you have a water-damage-caused hole in your apartment’s ceiling, and water/debris on your kitchen floor, for 2.5 days before bothering to come by to start cleanup or repairs (for example). We’re sick of throwing money away on rent and would feel better if we had a place to plant things, build soil, etc. – basically doing the “learning” part of homesteading BEFORE it really counts.

    Skillsets: not much re: homesteading. I’m currently a web developer but have always enjoyed houseplants and gardening. I also love to learn and am currently devouring The Permaculture Handbook, looking forward to a different way of life. I grew up rural, and the largest “city” I’ve ever lived in had only about 30,000 people.

    Thanks Daniel, I do like the existing-farm idea, and we actually have an organic farmer client who plans on doing permaculture-y things on his farm. Perhaps it’s time for a chat with him. :)

    The REAL Dr. House had great suggestions too. I’m an avid checker of the classifieds section here, but nobody there is in Vermont and I’d like to stay here, having carefully selected it because of the lack of coming water trouble, the resilience of its people (good ol’ Yankee ingenuity!), sparse population, tons of farms, etc.

    Gail, it’s good to know that you’re getting back to planting things anyway. :)

  36. John Day Says:

    I’m just working really long hard days while I mourn the passing of everything.
    So much of what i do is pointless and counterproductive to improving people’s quality of life, even in the medium term, even as a doctor, even in a public health clinic in rural Hawaii.
    Charlotte, I’m touched by your question.
    In the short term, get out of financial instruments and into gold bullion (maple leaves are nice and 100% pure) and circulated (junk) US silver coins.
    Live with some hard working organic farmers who are making it already.
    It is a super hard life, even as things stand now, but some can do it.
    Only then can you see what that means, and what you might do to be part of it.
    I’m there. I’m here. I’m engaging. People ask if I’m OK, with a worried look on their faces. I keep seeing death as the easy way out, which I’m not permitted to take, due to responsibilities to others.
    Cheers!
    :-)
    Some-kinda-optimist

  37. Rita Says:

    Charlotte – check out the Cold Antler blog. Jenna is in “Veryork”and is a great resource. You would probably love her books.

    I have $70 grand in student loans in low-income deferment. Nelnet goes by income, not net worth. I sold my house last August and am in the same boat. If I do buy land, it will be something low enough cost that I have some hope of re-selling, like a cheap lot here in Puna, HI, where you can build an un-permitted shelter, off grid and on catchment water. It does give me pause, however, to consider that if the Hawaiians decided to take back their land, it could get ugly. In fact, it does get ugly here sometimes.

    Maybe the rural areas are not really safer.

    I may just wonder around, living out of my car, which I have been doing since August and see some more of the country.

    It sounds like you have found your spot, so the next step is to gather your tribe. Make connections. There is much you can be learning, like how to make your own everything. I approach it like preparation for an expedition, a marathon, a final exam, childbirth, death, etc.

  38. Kathy C Says:

    Daniel, well its Jay’s site and his rules. Did he remove your membership or just delete some comments you made? If he just deleted comments and you are interested in what Duncan has to say, just come back on and avoid 911. If he removed you entirely and you are interested you know you can easily create a new e-mail eh? At any rate I will link to the new Duncan paper when it comes out and if anything pertinent to this group gets discussed I will summarize the information for this group.

    I actually found Jay’s dieoff.org because of 9/11 – someone sent me some stuff about it and I started researching, found Mike Ruppert’s site, found Stan Goff saying it was Peak Oil and then started researching Peak Oil and found Jay’s group.

  39. Kathy C Says:

    Daniel …..the whole concept of “preparedness”, is nothing more than an idea, based on what we want to be prepared for. However, when the time finally arrives, where you need to actually rely on your homestead for basic sustenance, meaning global food riots have collapsed the distribution of goods and services, the collapse of the electrical grid won’t be far behind. And once that goes…..well, it will probably only take a couple of months for the living to envy the dead.
    I had been realizing that for some years – then Fukushima happened and it began to dawn on us that when the grid goes so do all the nuclear power plants for they won’t be able to be cooled.

    Charlotte – you may want to google “400 Chernobyls Matthew Stein” and after reading it look at this map http://blogs.ft.com/energy-source/2011/03/16/the-nuclear-world-interactive-map/#axzz2K1NRbdqz and see which nuclear power plants blowing will affect you. This in part explains why Daniel says what he says. Those of us who don’t go down in the first round will get to see what a world with 400 exploding nuclear power plants (with no remediation) looks like.

    I just offer this as a piece of knowledge to add to your decision making. An unhappy bit of knowledge but its part of our future.

  40. Ripley Says:

    OzMan Says:

    Ripley
    Thanks for the heads up on The Parallax View, one I seem to have missed.
    Trying to find a way to watch ‘The Parallax View ‘. Seen some shorts and read the IMDB synopsis. What in your opinion is so disturbing or of interest there, just so I get your drift?

    Well, I’m hesitant to give too much away, unless you want me to. But it would fit somewhere between 3 Days of the Condor and the Manchurian Candidate in terms of subject matter. But both those movies have the reassuring presence of lots big stars that cushion the shock somewhat. The Parallax View is more pared down, unconventional, realistic. It has the feel of an investigative documentary that doesn’t know what it’s up against, and this makes the viewer feel very vulnerable and uncomfortable. Although it’s fiction I thought it presented some interesting possibilities. The idea of patsies being recruited to be in the right place at the right time. In light of some evidence, like Oswald saying he didn’t shoot anyone and that we was a patsy, just before he was silenced by Ruby. Powerful people wanting and trying to make some things happen and others not happen, see Operation Northwoods, Smedley Butler plot against FDR.

    The 3DOTC clip Guy provided in the previous post is remarkable because Cliff Robertson’s CIA character is stating the Carter Doctrine (mid east oil is OUR oil) several years before it became “official” policy.

  41. Steph Says:

    Hi Guy and all,

    Pat, thanks for asking ulvfugl about his (?) name. Wolfbird is wicked cool.

    I’m about 700 comments behind, per usual. Small breakthrough in my immediate friends’ circle, as now a few of them are beginning to ask me why I’ve become convinced collapse/extinction is coming soon, as opposed to within a few hundred years. I was going to ask you, Guy, to pull together a time-based argument and see you already have, in the second video linked above (banned, for real, in the UK? Ain’t that great.)

    So I inserted the direct link to that video into this week’s blogentry, in which I also take a poke at all you NBL-ers for being just a bit wrapped up in your own discourse. Which is not to say I disagree with the content (indeed, I admire the integrity and dynamics of intragroup interaction here). What I am trying to help co-construct is a discourse about deepening, a verb I settled upon to emphasize the living-well-in-the-moment-now ethos most of you espouse.

    http://www.reflexivity.us/wp/2013/02/the-world-is-still-living-flight-behavior-a-review/

  42. ogardener Says:

    @Daniel

    “I’ve been blocked from Jay’s site, because I questioned him about 9/11….hmmmm”

    Jay is adamant about 9 1 1 postings on his website. Maybe you can contact him and and tell him you are aware of this fact now and see if he’ll let you back in.

  43. dairymandave Says:

    Maybe Jay just doesn’t want to do the “here we go again” thing. Like crop circles, it never ends.

  44. Guy McPherson Says:

    Leslie, please take a look at the first figure here. Notice how unusual it has been (would be?) to achieve a stable 18.5 C average-global temperature. It’ never happened to far. I suppose it could happen, but I wouldn’t bet on it. When I mentioned “bargaining” in my post, this is what I’m talking about.

    Thanks for the link to your essay, Steph.

  45. ogardener Says:

    Dear ogardener,

    “Wow. That’s a lot of buzz: Since the release of the breakthrough European study finding that clothianidin and other neonicotinoid pesticides pose a serious danger to our bee population, over 263,000 people have joined you in signing the petition urging the EPA to immediately suspend its use.

    If we want to convince the EPA to take action, we need to build as much pressure as possible.

    Can you help us reach 300,000 signers? Click here to share this petition with your friends.”

    http://act.credoaction.com/r/?r=6996344&p=efsa_bees&id=54325-3469653-WzewLxx&t=17

    I joined this org a while ago. Pass it around if it pleases you. Thanks.

  46. B9K9 Says:

    It appears a very small percentage of the United States of Sheeple is slowly but surely becoming aware of the the popular meme regarding 1913. For, dear reader, in the annals of modern history, 1913 is quite the banner year.

    Let us take a short visit down memory lane to recall the legal precedents that established the very system which controls daily life to this day. And in so doing, enshrined a debt-slavery system that makes it impossible for any corrective action to be taken regarding environmental self-preservation:

    16th amendment – allows Congress to levy an income tax without apportionment amongst the states. With the 16th, both federal & state governments created the system by which a debt-money system could be financed & serviced with ongoing cash flows.

    17th amendment – direct election of US Senators by popular vote. An important keystone in which to introduce money politics into the higher chamber, with special notice with regard to judicial approvals that eventually culminated in Citizens United.

    Federal reserve act – established a US central banking system by outsourcing (abdicating) Congressional legal authority over legal tender. With this final capstone in place, and an income tax system in which to fund it, banking interests had full control of a major continent and willing sheep to slave away producing wealth for a few at the top.

    So many things happened in 1913 that went the right way for the reptiles, that even Woodrow commented:

    “A little group of willful men, representing no opinion but their own, have rendered the great government of the United States helpless and contemptible.”

    “The government, which was designed for the people, has got into the hands of the bosses and their employers, the special interests. An invisible empire has been set up above the forms of democracy.”

    Now, knowing this, why did Woodrow sign off on the FedResAct? (Both amendments were already in process of being ratified before he assumed office.) Well, it appears Woody literally had a woody for a certain lovely lady, and that suppression of this information was perhaps critical to maintaining his reputation.

    Of course, the FedResAct was not the last step. The dark forces really had to pull out their chits on Woody when it came to having the US declare war on Germany in 1917. The rest, as they say, is history.

    So, go on being an angry nihilist. If you were wise, you’d quickly realize that this shit was cemented firmly in place long before your dad even got a look @ your mom. You were born in captivity, and unless something really unexpected occurs, you will die in captivity.

  47. Gail Says:

    Debunking the myth of clean energy:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1350811/In-China-true-cost-Britains-clean-green-wind-power-experiment-Pollution-disastrous-scale.html

    from a comment at the dotearth post (where mostly, the delusion is so overwhelming, it was a really depressing way to start the day!)

    “One needs to look no further than the bankrupt climate policies epitomized by emission reduction targets and commitments that have dominated the climate policy agenda—and appear likely to continue to do so. These have done nothing to stem the rising tide of global emissions—and could never have been expected to do so in the absence of an energy technology revolution capable of replacing fossil fuels with equally capable, reliable, and scalable energy sources and technologies. Attempts to cut back on emissions in one place whether via cap and trade carbon pricing or government mandates mainly shift the locus of emissions elsewhere, as studies comparing emissions based on a consumption instead of production have demonstrated. It is like a huge CO2 balloon—push at one point, it bulges out at another.”

  48. michele/montreal Says:

    “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”

    coal miners will never give up, like the great majority who will never understand what is at stake ( at steak?)

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/05/us-usa-coal-miners-idUSBRE9140A320130205

  49. wildwoman Says:

    michele/montreal, thanks for that link. My paternal grandfather (whom I never met) worked in a coal mine in Herrin, IL for enough years to contract brown lung (which eventually killed him quite young). My dad describes growing up with pictures of FDR, John L Lewis and the pope on his wall, and the KKK would come by and beat the shit out of whomever (immigrant Eyetalians and papists, don’t you know). The house also had bullet holes in it from these visits. No republicans in that house.

    Steph, I loved Kingsolver’s new one! My favorite is still Prodigal Summer, but Flight Behavior is a close second.

    Charlotte, I’ll add my voice to Daniel and TRDH….we bought undeveloped land in Kentucky, which I love deeply. Still, it’s going to require a ton of money to make liveable and we’re in our 50s and not do it yourselfers. The idea of living with other people makes me want to open a vein or two, so an IC is out of the question for us, but might be the way to go for you guys. Think it through.

  50. ulvfugl Says:

    I don’t think that there is any such thing as perfection, when considering energy sources and clean energy. As with H/G, just to exist, any human has an ecological impact, even if only by occupying physical space, compacting the soil by foot pressure, changing the soil composition by urinating, and getting their food one way or another.

    So it’s a sliding scale, from least damaging to most damaging.

    Other species, e.g. ants, social creatures similar in many ways to ourselves, – learned how to get everything they need without destroying their environment. For example, some species hollow out trees so that they can live inside them, protected from enemies. They don’t kill the tree, they care for it and protect it, removing insects and caterpillars that harm the tree’s foliage. It probably took them several millions of years to learn that relationship. It’s the lesson that we have not learned in our brief time on Earth.

    We do know, in theory, that there’s far more energy than we could possibly want, sloshing about out there, in the wind and the waves and the sunshine. What has been wrong has been the attitude, the insane economics, the culture. We could have devoted our efforts to finding harmless ways of harvesting that energy.

    People who built steam engines, even people who built diesel engines in the 1930′s, built them to last forever. I mean literally. They really thought in those terms. They were something wondrous and special. Since then the whole cultural attitude changed, planned obsolescence, everything is a disposable throwaway item, which will be replaced by a ‘new, improved’ version… partly because consumers have been trained to like the novelty and status of newness, but mostly because it’s profitable.

    There’s no profit in making a product which lasts forever, because the customers never come back. Except perhaps occasionally for spare parts. In nature, that would be an advantage. Build once. Done. No need to waste energy ever again. But in consumer capitalism, the best products are things like cigarettes, which vanish, and force the customer to come back the next day wanting more, makes cash flow. The faster we consume nature, the richer we all get. Until it’s gone. Until NTE.

  51. ulvfugl Says:

    @ Steph

    Wolfbird is wicked cool.

    And he knows it ! ;-) People often add ‘infamous evil egomaniac’, or similar flattery, btw.

    Actually, I urgently needed a name years ago, to register with the ISP, and was reading a great book, The Mind of the Raven, by Bernd Heinrich, wolfbird was in the subtitle, so that’s how it happened.

    And on the subject of animal behaviour, this is cool and intriguing. Me, I think it’s a quantum consciousness thing. There’s ninja and tai chi exercises, where you stand at the centre of a marked circle, divided by radial lines, blindfolded, and sense attacks from different directions. Some directions are easier than others, for no known reason.

    It’s winter on a British meadow, and a red fox is on the prowl. The snow-covered ground masks the sight of its prey but the fox can still hear the telltale rustle of a mouse. It creeps forward slowly, listening intently with erect ears. Once it pinpoints the mouse’s location, it leaps into the air to surprise its prey with a strike from above. This pounce, known as ‘mousing’, is a common sight but there’s more to it than meets the eye. Jaroslav Červený has found that when red foxes pounce, they mostly jump in a north-easterly direction. He thinks that they’re using the Earth’s magnetic field to hunt.

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/01/11/foxes-use-the-earths-magnetic-field-as-a-targeting-system

  52. ulvfugl Says:

    And that last link lead me to this one

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2013/02/04/soil-microbes-invisibly-shape-biodiversity/

    Which reminded me of Guy’s mention of the soil micro-organisms, and how climate change will effect them.
    There’s not many microbiologists who study the soil, and what they mostly say is ‘We don’t know much’…
    We’ve probably already done terrible damage and will never be able to know.

  53. ulvfugl Says:

    ..scientists have discovered that sea urchins use nickel ions to harness carbon dioxide from the sea to grow their exoskeleton – or shell. It could be a way to capture tonnes of CO2.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/the-humble-sea-urchin-may-hold-key-to-tackling-climate-change-2013-2

  54. michele/montreal Says:

    I will not leave the city, I will not grow food, I will not look for IC, I can’t. I will not see a sane tree again in my life. There is not one sane tree left in this city. The botanical graden is no exception. In my jail, I hear the drum beat where the birds used to sing.

  55. pat Says:

    michele:

    are you actually incarcerated or just speaking metaphorically?

  56. Gail Says:

    This description of living in an IC raises some daunting issues and it reminds me of the few days I spent in a camp in West Virginia, preparing to shut down a mountaintop removal coal mine. It was very intense, and the personalities were kind of overwhelming. In the establishment of elaborate manners required to give offense to no one, a hierarchy clearly prevailed. It made me think that a genetically determined desire for status underlies even the most ostensibly benign behavior.

    http://leavingbabylon.wordpress.com/2012/12/22/living-by-the-bell/

  57. pat Says:

    IMO, IC living seems like nothing more than pre-electricity, pre-oil, agrarian civilization. A good choice if there is some nice, slow, decline in the population with a controlled shut-down of the nuclear power plants and the industrialized cities. But, if the SHTF in a rapid riotous collapse, then they are going to be the first targets of the militarized marauding hordes.

    So, the only way IC makes sense, IMO, is somewhere WAY far away from populations. The least densely populated place you can find! (So, nowhere in the US.)

    But, given NTE, The debate is moot.

    I keep thinking I’ll quit my job and let my house get foreclosed on and then wander the streets. But, alas, I somehow keep showing up, punching the clock, and waiting…

  58. dairymandave Says:

    Regarding soil microbes; Looks to me like some folks are trying to create jobs for themselves. The solution, which they really don’t want to know, is to not cut down the trees that capture energy for the soil microbes below. The microbes depend 100% for their energy from the trees. Is that too hard to understand? No “study” is needed. The microbes then do their work, break down matter and build soil structure for the trees. It’s like taking nursing mothers away from their babies and then “study” what is wrong with the babies. I continually forget how stupid we really are.

  59. ulvfugl Says:

    @ dmd

    Indeed, stupidity abounds, and when combined with the arrogance you display, it’s a certain recipe for disaster.

    You assume that all ecosystems involve trees, that all trees have the same relationships with soil microbes, that all soils are the same. No study is needed ? Sure. Ignorance is a virtue. Jeez.

  60. ulvfugl Says:

    Okay, I’d like to withdraw my last ad hom aimed at dmd, as I have been reprimanded in private regarding my attitude. Apologies.

    We know almost nothing about soil microbes. All that we know is that every time somebody looks at some soil in detail, there’s millions and millions of new life lifeforms to be found. Fungi, bacteria, viruses, all sorts of strange things. How they interact is unknown.
    The more we can learn, the better. If we want to conserve or rebuild ecosystems, or even if we want to grow food, we need to understand what we are doing. Just understanding that some plants and some trees take nitrogen out of the air and fix it, – in other words, fertilizer for free,- is incredibly valuable knowledge. The suggestion that wanting to know this stuff is stupid, is stupid. IMHO.

  61. ulvfugl Says:

    Testimonies of the mothers in Fukushima filmed by the Fukushima Collective Evacuation Trial Team. In the video, one of the mothers highlights the fact that regulatory standard for the food in the school meals at the primary schools in Koriyama City, Fukushima is 10 Bq/kg while the standard at the cafeteria of the offices of the Fukushima local government is 1 Bq/kg, suggesting the fact that the government could sacrifice the health of children by lifting the safety standard higher than normal levels. In so doing, The government officials seem to believe that the promotion of the local consumption of food at the primary schools would make the impact of radioactive contamination in the community look smaller.

    Also, the way in which this video presents the statements of the mothers by changing their voices and hiding their faces implies the mothers’ fears of being blamed by their neighbours or other members of their community when they speak out the truth in the public.

    SOS from the mothers of Fukushima

  62. Daniel Says:

    Kathy C,

    Yes, Jay removed my membership, and again, not for originally opening the whole 911 bucket of worms, but because he gave free license to someone else, who bashed those of us–including thousand of engineers–who look at building 7, and think to ourselves….that sure does look like a controlled demolition!

    In fact, how anyone could possibly see it any other way, could easily be considered the epitome of cognitive dissonance.

    But on a scale of 1-10 as to how contemptuous I could have been, I barely registered a 2.

    It’s fascinating to witness what some of us choose to let in, compared to what we decide to keep out…..for the sake of getting at “the truth”.

    Some will attempt to magnify the slimmest shred of evidence as proof in justifying some insane extrapolated theory, and then turn around and be completely blind to what is staring them in the face. I’m sure I’m no exception.

    While the concept of “vested interests” has over the years, become fairly common parlance among those of us who ponder collapse, it has lost none of it’s quintessence as to our culture’s blind spots.
    It never ceases to amaze me, how “what” we see, is completely determined by what we “want” to see, and just how ubiquitous that disparity is……

  63. ulvfugl Says:

    @ BC Nurse Prof

    Thanks for the link, great read.

    ..extended riffs on the idea that life is nothing but a brief, horrifying, meaningless, and futile exercise in existential terror management.

    Hahahahaha. Great line.

    Has nobody here had experience of Unintentional Communities ?

    I’ve been homeless and penniless in foreign cities, wandered into squats, lived there for months with all kinds of strange people, communities that just happen out if necessity.

    There was a large rural community like that on common land, homeless people living in trailers and benders and so forth. I got to know some of them. Some were great people, but lots were very damaged casualties, bad mental problems, lots of people making money and using bad drugs, knife fights, people freaking out from the stress, getting obliterated with booze. Not an easy place to live.

    Moved into villages, that are long established Welsh communities going back many centuries, nobody ‘intended’ them, they just grew, full of all kinds of odd people who more or less get along just because the are in the same location.

    I tried to form an intentional anarchist community, first time, in my late teens, some 40+ years ago, been involved with several others since. Some work, some don’t, all depends on the characters involved, imo.

    Met a man who told me about a whole street in London that had somehow lost all legal ownership. He was homeless. Found a house there, full of junkies and alcoholics, threw them out, renovated it, others did the same in adjoining houses. It grew, became a street of artist’s communes in an organic, haphazard sort of way.

    I think probably the worst way, the way that fails most, is when several middle class couples with money decide to buy somewhere. They plan and plan and try to foresee every problem, and that goes on forever and nothing happens, and if lawyers get involved that’s another recipe for disaster, imo.

    Lammas seem to have been successful

    http://www.lammas.org.uk/ecovillage/news.htm

  64. infanttyrone Says:

    Some will attempt to magnify the slimmest shred of evidence as proof in justifying some insane extrapolated theory

    YOUNG CATHERWOOD

    That’s Danny. But don’t say it, Nancy, I… I know it’s been hard, but I wanted to give you the swellest honeymoon a girl ever had. We’re going to Greece!

    NANCY

    And swim the English Channel?

    YOUNG CATHERWOOD

    No, no. To Ancient Greece, where burning Sappho loved and sang and stroked the wine-dark sea, in the temple by the moonlight, wa da doo dah…

    NANCY

    What?

    YOUNG CATHERWOOD

    Don’t you see, Nancy? I’ve built the perfect time machine!

    NANCY

    Oh, it sounds dangerous!

    YOUNG CATHERWOOD

    Yes, that’s why I’m going to try it out first. Now, when I get into this grandfather clock, you hit me over the head with this bottle of Champagne, right here, set the dial for a thousand, and put in three dimes. I’ll be gone for a thousand years.

    NANCY

    A thousand! That’s longer than anyone’s ever been gone before!

    YOUNG CATHERWOOD

    But to you it will seem only like a minute! Very well, my love. Now, forward into the paaaaaaast! (breaking glass/Tardis)

    NANCY
    Gee, I hope he gets back before all this dry ice melts! (door open/close) Who…who’s there?

    ROCKY

    Mrs. Haber?

    NANCY

    Who’s that?

    ROCKY

    I’m Rocky Rococo. You may have seen me loitering around the drugstore, drinking chocolate malted Falcons and giving away free high school…

    NANCY

    Well, what are you doing here? What do you want?

    ROCKY

    (walking) I’m here for a friend, Mrs. Haber. If you sign a contract you’re supposed to keep up the payments…

    NANCY

    Oh, you must be a friend of Nick’s…

    ROCKY

    Yes…

    NANCY

    Well, he couldn’t want his money already. He, he only gave me the ring last night. I…I’m wearing it, see?

    ROCKY

    Yes, that’s a very pretty hand you have there…(struggle) Ha ha ha ha!!

    NANCY

    Oh! Let go of my hand! (Tardis)

    CATHERWOOD

    Oh, Nancy! Nancy! It’s a success! I’m back! It’s a success! I have proof I’ve been to ancient Greece! Look at this grape! Oh, it’s…

  65. ogardener Says:

    More Americans Addicted To Prescription Drugs

    Excerpt:

    Experts say prescription drug addiction is continuing to rise.

    According to federal data, nearly 7 million Americans abused prescription drugs in 2007 more than cocaine, heroin, hallucinogens, Ecstasy and inhalants such as marijuana combined. The figure is up 80 percent since 2000.

    So when the shit goes down there will be greater than 7 million Americans out and about looking for a fix.

  66. Lidia Says:

    Charlotte, we are also in VT. Could you drop me a line at “lidiaseventeen” via gmail? Would like to exchange ideas, break bread with like-minded folks who are in a similar position. We’d like to invest in a self-sustaining local food operation even if that ends up being the last thing we do…

  67. Robin Datta Says:

    I’d like to withdraw my last ad hom aimed at dmd, as I have been reprimanded in private

    Ye shall know them by their fruits.
    Matthew 7:16

    (Among the consequences of meditation without adequate preparatory and supportive practices.)

    Some advanced beings need no preparatory and supportive practices. The Sixth Patriarch was one such example: indeed he did not even need meditation. It is said that he realised “enlightenment” upon hearing a verse of the Diamond Sutra in a recitation by wandering monks, before be left home. But then not everyone is of that stature – I for one could wish I were even a shadow of it.

    The way meditation is promoted in society today misses the mark, often by a wide margin. And when pursued hell-bent on “enlightenment” it can lead very far astray.

    Not one of the beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount advocates meditation, but each and every one of them will convey the sincere practitioner to the same Being that Buddha was.

  68. ulvfugl Says:

    @ Robin D.

    Thank you for your advice, I’m sure it is well intended. I left buddhism behind a long time ago, and christianity, long before that. I follow the pathless path of soto zen as taught by Dogen. All belief systems are rafts for crossing rivers, after that, nothing but a useless hindrance. I am not the slightest bit interested in enlightenment.

    Fruits ? You know what you can do with them. Just look what a mess it leads to.

    Buddhists do not really do regret.

  69. OzMan Says:

    Daniel

    Regarding this comment you made earlier:

    “It’s fascinating to witness what some of us choose to let in, compared to what we decide to keep out…..for the sake of getting at “the truth”.”

    I think its one thing to have a personal view, which can be formed for all kinds of reasons, some of which are subective, like an intuition, or feelings.

    However, if you or anyone say runs a website, and pushes a view on something like 9/11 and perhaps NTE and catastrophic climate change, for example, it will not come down to subjective evidence, because, as is obvious, in practice what happens is that every nutcase will test your assertions, and many will use the credibility test of the prevailing Scientific worldview to critique your same assertions.

    So I think in practice what happens is that if web publishers start talking about these issues with a lot of coverage, not only do they cop a lot of ‘comment’ from deniers, they get hit by the authorities, or their lackeys if the actual laws do not allow, but additionally they get heaps of trolling, like flies to a Rafflesia plant in the Sumartrian rainforrest.

    We know here from previous experience.

    So I think web and blog publishers can tell from their experience what assertions and proposals will get them into too mch ‘trouble’ or ‘difficulty’, particularly with their linked associates, who can act with ferocity in censoring them, if their message is not trimed to suit.

    The ‘truth’ will go down the gurgler there, no question, but that is less than it takes to have an open discussion about the published evidence, and even some anecdotal evidence, which is what happens with excellent coverage of Climate and Biosphere issues here at NBL, thanks to the standards set by Guy and all who contribute in that spirit he attempts to live by.

    Others will be obviously a poor example, and the situation you describe, having your membership revoked for ordinary comments shows where the real agenda is there.

    Just sayin…cheers.

  70. Robin Datta Says:

    Fruits ? You know what you can do with them. Just look what a mess it leads to.

    (“)Indeed, stupidity abounds, and when combined with the arrogance you display, it’s a certain recipe for disaster.(“) :-)

  71. Speak Softly Says:

    Want to learn about life in the soil?

    Read some Paul Stamets

    Mycelium (mushrooms) rules the soil.

    From: Mycelium Running: How Mushrooms Can Help Save the World

    “I believe that mycelium is the neurological network of nature. Interlacing mosaics of mycelium infuse habitats with information-sharing membranes. These membranes are aware, react to change, and collectively have the long-term health of the host environment in mind. The mycelium stays in constant molecular communication with its environment, devising diverse enzymatic and chemical responses to complex challenges.” ― Paul Stamets,

    Are mycelium the largest organism in the world?

    A 2,400-acre (9.7 km2) site in eastern Oregon had a contiguous growth of mycelium before logging roads cut through it.

    Estimated at 1,665 football fields in size and 2,200 years old, this one fungus has killed the forest above it several times over, and in so doing has built deeper soil layers that allow the growth of ever-larger stands of trees.

    Mushroom-forming forest fungi are unique in that their mycelial mats can achieve such massive proportions.

    - Paul Stamets, Mycelium Running

    How Mushrooms Can Clean Up Radioactive Contamination

    …..with hyper-accumulating mycorrhizal mushrooms, particularly Gomphidius glutinosus, Craterellus tubaeformis, and Laccaria amethystina (all native to pines). G. glutinosus has been reported to absorb – via the mycelium – and concentrate radioactive Cesium 137 more than 10,000-fold over ambient background levels. Many other mycorrhizal mushroom species also hyper-accumulate.

    Wait until mushrooms form and then harvest them under Radioactive HAZMAT protocols.

    Continuously remove the mushrooms, which have now concentrated the radioactivity, particularly Cesium 137, to a [closed loop] incinerator. Burning the mushroom will result in radioactive ash. This ash can be further refined and the resulting concentrates vitrified (placed into glass) instead of very rapidly spreading through the air and water…..

  72. Jeff S. Says:

    Guy: a friend of mine at Hubbert’s Arms says there’s a thread there in the Energy News section discussing the November video. Reactions have been overwhelmingly supportive. But when this came up in a thread in another sub-forum (General Discussion), this one guy, who appears to be a hard core supporter of capitalism (he is a capitalist, for one thing) all but asserted that you are cherry picking your data. See response #53 in http://www.hubberts-arms.org/general-discussion/reclaiming-our-imagination-from-'there-is-no-alternative'/msg235410/#msg235410 Just giving you a head’s up, he’s planning on seeing you in May.:-) Methinks he’s a big IDIOT. Thanks for doing what you’re doing. Joe Romm, when all is said and done, doesn’t want the boat rocked, he’s got a berth on it, even if it’s third class.

  73. ulvfugl Says:

    @ Robin D.

    Why do you think I have such contempt for belief systems ?

    ( My contempt extends to those who hold the beliefs, in the neurons in their heads, who promote and share the beliefs.
    Perhaps it should not. Some people insist on the difference between the person and the ideas, which is what ad hominem is all about, in a formal context. Is this blog such a formal context ? For me it’s not, but out of respect for it’s owner, I endeavour not to cause offence. )

    I take the ideas personally. It’s these ideas and beliefs that are the enemy, the ‘thing’, the stupidity, that is causing the extinction of species and the destruction of the biosphere. It’s not the ACTIONS. The actions follow the ideas. When the Chinese decide that they are going to dam more valleys and destroy more ecology, it’s because some idiot thinks that is what makes sense in accordance with the way they understand the world.

    When the Mennonites cut the Colombian rain forest, or the European farmers ploughed up the prairie to create the dustbowl, it’s because they are convinced that ‘they know the way things should be done’.

    Whether it’s the materialism and arrogance of science, divorced from any sense of the sacred, or the blind obedience to the superstition and the dogma of some ancient myth, the combination of arrogance and ignorance prevails everywhere. Nobody has got any respect for nature.

    As I’ve stated plainly, in my estimation, your own interpretation of Vedanta and other teachings, which has lead you to the conclusion that human beings are to be viewed as meat robots, is grossly mistaken, misconceived and ill-judged.

  74. ulvfugl Says:

    @ Speak Softly

    Yes, a big cheer for Paul Stamets.

  75. ulvfugl Says:

    Here’s a 3 hour video about Sandy Hook, the first part, which reviews the story, is rather good and thorough, imo, ( I doubt many here will want to watch the whole thing, if you do, and get to the bit about Albert Pike and the UN plot to grab the guns, I think it goes way off the rails… )

    I bring it to your attention, in case you don’t know it already, to give some context to the link in the following comment

    http://youtu.be/JkZ9HnMLKXg

  76. ulvfugl Says:

    An interesting development, in the light of all the speculation :

    Connecticut State’s Attorney Stephen Sedensky has argued that unsealing warrants in the Sandy Hook case might “seriously jeopardize” the investigation by disclosing information known only to other “potential suspects.”
    Sedensky said that unsealing the warrants would also:
    “identify persons cooperating with the investigation, thus possibly jeopardizing their personal safety and well-being.”
    The statement by the CT prosecutor’s office is the first indication from state authorities that Adam Lanza may have not acted alone.

    Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/342829#ixzz2K6KDokAJ

  77. Robin Datta Says:

    The choice is not from a spectrum of happy motoring to extinction. Not cherry-picking to select a point on the spectrum, but squinting at the departing horse’s ass when deciding about the effect of closing the barn door.

  78. dairymandave Says:

    Just for the record, I don’t own a pickup truck and I don’t go to church.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/super-bowl-farmer-ad-plows-agricultural-landscape-article-1.1255317

    Also, I canceled my subscription to Discover magazine about 10 years ago, when I realized what their real purpose was.

  79. dairymandave Says:

    There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them.

    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

    http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/g/george_orwell.html

  80. Tom Says:

    you’ll appreciate this dmd:

  81. OzMan Says:

    dairymandave

    A quote that perhaps is a forrunner to that difficult to get, at first, concept – ‘Motivated Reasoning” from the great G.O.

    From the same site:

    “People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome.”

    And I can’t resist another gem:

    “Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.”

    George Orwell

    Like:

    “I am human”

    and

    “I am a consumer”

    Or for Robbin Datta:

    “I”

    and

    “I Am”

  82. OzMan Says:

    Another Doublethink:

    “It is so awfully hot today, much hotter than usual”

    and

    “I’ll put the air conditioner on to cool things down”

    Any better ones from any-all?

  83. ulvfugl Says:

    Re the battle of ideas.

    In the 1700s, a few smart people, like those in the Lunar Society, with a knowledge of ethics, questioned The Trade Triangle, and began to spread the idea that slavery was morally wrong. In those days, much of England’s wealth was coming from that trade, and the mega-rich families didn’t like these ideas, so, Bernays-style, they invented counter-memes. They said that the black Africans were not really human, because they interbred with chimpanzees, so should be regarded as animals. They said that God had provided the whiteman with Africa as a natural blessing, a farm full of livestock to be harvested. They said that the Africans were actually very grateful to be captured because they were saved from the ravages of nature, the wild beasts that preyed upon them. They said that they were very happy to be taken to America and the West Indies, where they enjoyed their work and learned the life of good Christians. Most ordinary English folk had no direct experience of the trade, they just repeated whatever they heard or were told by their superiors. I met an old Welsh lady who had lived all her life in rural isolation, 85 at the time, 40 years ago, who told me of the time in her youth, a memorable occasion, when she had seen ‘a blackie’. He was one of a crew of workers who drove by in a truck. She had such a fright she ran inside and locked the door. A legacy of the propaganda and mythology.

    http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/ism/slavery/triangle.aspx

    What has this got to do with anything ? In principle, it’s no different to the contemporary battle of ideas, which is, however far more complex and sophisticated and difficult to unravel. These ideas are started by people, spread by people, they exist in people’s heads, come out of their mouths. People like the Kochs pay a lot of money to cook them up into catchy phrases and distribute them.

    I am trying, trying, to stand up for the right ideas, and kill off the wrong ones. I can keep the crap out of my head, that’s the easy part…

    btw, Infanttyrone, wtf was that all about ? It was entertaining, in a mental-meltdown sort of way… I thought the trick is to stand on the edge of the ten thousand foot cliff with equanimity, not to fall off into a multi-dimensional time warp… ;-)

  84. ulvfugl Says:

    @ Robin D.

    Your comment which ended :

    Not one of the beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount advocates meditation, but each and every one of them will convey the sincere practitioner to the same Being that Buddha was.

    No one who seeks is ever going to find Buddha or Enlightenment or anything else that’s of any worth, especially not if they think it has something to do with geographical location, or gurus, or following scriptures, or injunctions, or achieving or getting something… all of that stuff is crap which needs to be thrown away.

    You already ARE what you are seeking, you’re already immersed in it, no where to escape or hide from it, nothing to find, nothing to be sought, nobody to be enlightened.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharmakāya

  85. Kathy C Says:

    LaMar’s Tar Sands Souvenir Stand!

    A little tar sand humor

  86. Kathy C Says:

    Sermon on the Mount Matthew 5:3

    Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven

    or Sermon on the mount Luke 6:20 – 21

    Blessed [are] ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God. Blessed are you who hunger now, for you will be satisfied.

  87. Kathy C Says:

    I am no longer religious but having studied the Bible for years I still find parts of it worth quoting. It seems to me that anyone who wishes to grow in what they call spirituality needs to meditate on the verses below and find their spirituality not in quantum physics or mental mind trips called meditation, but in concrete action in relationship to the humans that have gotten the bum end of the deal in this world. The opportunities for such actions as volunteering in homeless shelters are increasing. The opportunities to share your daily bread will surely increase. As we head into extinction that now seems unavoidable, we will have plenty of opportunities for self sacrifice for others. What could be more spiritual than that. If you want to meditate on something, meditate on what you will do if you have 2 days of food left and a woman and child appear on your doorstep begging for food.

    Matthew 25
    31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

    34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

    37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

    40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
    41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

    44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

    45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

    46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

  88. Red Eft Says:

    This is my first comment here, Charlottes question brought me out of the shadows. I am 54 years old. When I was 40 I bought a cabin on 5 acres. I had the romantic notion of homesteading but have now reconciled with reality. I have a garden. I have chickens. I am not even close to being self sufficient and never will be. So I just live season to season now and dont look that far ahead. The flux potential is so great im not sure a bunch of long term planning is viable. I only do what really matters to me. I don’t even try and explain anymore. If I spend all day in the forest looking at the variety of lichen and mosses or mentally cataloging the bird songs I hear, then that day is a gift and to those who think I have dropped out or given up or being unproductive or not ambitious or the other charges that have been levied against me then so be it. I have learned to be very present. I don’t really plan for collapse in the sense of massive food stockpiling or a bunch of survival gear anymore. I did at the beginning. I came here for one reason, stayed here for another: everybody’s got to be somewhere, and a rural community is a good place to ride it out. It’s more civilized for sure. I wouldn’t presume to give advice about what you should do, instead I would encourage you to fill each day with as much of whatever brings you joy. I spend a lot of time apart from my husband who is deeply attached to the matrix and will not entertain any discussion of NTE. If you have a partner who understands what we are facing then you are Truly blessed. If not for these pages I would feel quite lonely. Good luck, and don’t be afraid.

  89. ulvfugl Says:

    @ Kathy C.

    Perhaps you’d care to explain, clarify, what that introductory paragraph is supposed to mean :

    It seems to me that anyone who wishes to grow in what they call spirituality

    What is ‘spirituality’ ? And what would it mean ‘to grow in’ it ?

    ..needs to meditate on the verses

    I think you do not understand what the word ‘meditate’ means. You are using it as if it was synonymous with ‘think about’ or ‘contemplate’. That’s not what it means when I use the word. I mean the formal discipline called zazen, or its equivalent in other traditions.

    ..below and find their spirituality not in quantum physics

    How can spirituality – whatever that is, or isn’t ? Go on, please define it – be found, or not found, in quantum physics, or in any other branch of physics ? Say, Classical Newtonian physics, or in mathematics ?

    …or mental mind trips called meditation

    I think that your understanding of what meditation is, is so shallow and superficial that it does not qualify as any kind of understanding at all. What exactly do you think that people do when they meditate ?

    For someone who insists so fervently that they are a materialist and an atheist you seem to have an extraordinarily strong attachment to ancient mythology.

  90. ulvfugl Says:

    @ Red Eft

    Sounds good to me.

  91. ulvfugl Says:

    What a touching story. If only we could do that for this whole world..

    “We lost a lot of our riches. But we were also able to save a great deal of our riches, and for that I am overcome with joy,” Cisse said. “These manuscripts represent who we are…. I saved these books in the name of Timbuktu first, because I am from Timbuktu. . Then I did it for my country. And also for all of humanity. Because knowledge is for all of humanity.”

    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/people-timbuktu-save-manuscripts-invaders

  92. Speak Softly Says:

    “…I thought the trick is to stand on the edge of the ten thousand foot cliff with equanimity, not to fall off into a multi-dimensional time warp…”

    If I was a younger person, I’d be doing this in a heartbeat.

    “Beauty will save the world.”

    ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky

    Not the idea of beauty, not the concept of beauty, not the religion of beauty, not the dogma of beauty….

    To paraphrase Justice Potter Stewart, who was talking about pornography, but the same attitude applies when dealing with Beauty

    “…I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description [of "hard-core Beauty"] and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it…”

    ~Justice Potter Stewart~

    A Heart in love with Beauty never grows old, let the Beauty we Love be what we Do and See

    .

  93. Bailey Says:

    I am on a personal campaign to depress as many of the ‘common folk’ as I can concerning the true state of the environment. Why? Because I have tried to be a good little doober environmentally and I am depressed as hell over it, so I am determined to spread the joy around. If we deserve to be depressed, those that have not cared certainly do!

    http://truththeory.com/2012/02/25/planet-infected-by-humans/

  94. wildwoman Says:

    Red Eft, I think you have the right idea.

    We watched National Geographic’s Doomsday Preppers for the first time last night….caught several shows back to back and wow, human beings are totally amazing creatures!

    One guy, who I kind of related to, is prepping for an earthquake along the New Madrid fault. He and his wife have spent 60 to 70 thousand dollars on food, etc. (According to the map he’s using, we will be okay in KY if there is another big one.)

    Another is prepping for nuclear war. Another for economic collapse.

    One couple has this gorgeous little farm with animals and garden.

    Not ONE of these people are thinking about those nuclear plants that go BOOM without the grid.

    But shit, they are well armed! Gillie suits, AK-47s, camo nets, buried caches, blah blah blah.

    At the end of each segment, some unnamed “expert preppers” score each person’s preps (no mention of nuclear holocaust by them, either).

    Now that is some serious denial. It really is America’s 51st state!