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A letter to a friend who condemned me as a hopeless doomer

Wed, Dec 4, 2013

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by Lady Die

My dear friend,

I want you to know that I’m sad, but not feeling hopeless about our impending extinction. As I said previously, recognizing the signs of imminent death, whether it’s terminal cancer or terminal climate change, is a freeing perspective. I’ve chosen to be awake and aware, and am now free to see the truth before my eyes. I’m also now free from the rat race, free from working for the man, and also free from paying the man. Imagine, my friend, if everyone realized they were being murdered and that their federal taxes were going towards their murder by destroying the planet? They might just stop participating in their own murder and we might actually have a chance at saving the planet and maybe even ourselves!

But it takes courage to admit that death is imminent. It takes courage to realize there will be no one to remember us, or Beethoven, or Charlotte Perkins Gilman, or Debussy, or Van Gogh, or Isadora Duncan, or Billie Holiday, or Vonnegut, or anybody else. There will be no legacies any more, no memories, no legends, no dirges to mourn us. The finality of it will be eternal. But it will not be the first time a species went extinct. Every day 200 species go extinct. Our number is coming up soon. It takes courage to admit that, and blind faith to ignore it and go on with business as usual.

The only thing I feel hopeless about, dear friend, is that I realize people will never realize in time they are being murdered. And you too, my sweet friend, are inadvertently and unconsciously contributing to that through your, albeit well meaning, attempt to create a “safe” place for people to share their feelings, and talk about hope, as if hope will somehow miraculously heal the planet or stop the science in its tracks.

I do reserve that there is a tiny 1% of hope that something miraculous could happen, scientifically of course, but I’ve always been a pessimistic optimist; I hope for the best, prepare for the worst. The worst thing that happens with this tack is you’re pleasantly surprised when the storm passes you by, and you have plenty of extra water and batteries on hand. But if I were to simply hope for the best and reject the possible worst for fear of being too negative and doomery, I would feel pretty silly when the lights went out and I had no water.

With all my love
Your friend forever, at least for now

____________

The following ads are among the large and growing list in the CLASSIFIEDS section above:

I’d like to start a “NBL Drinking and Solidarity Society” (thanks to Judith Haran for the inspiration) in western North Carolina (I live in Brevard). To gather with sister & brother doomers two to twelve times per year to connect, commiserate some about the short-sightedness of 99.99% of our fellow humans and enjoy each others’ company. This would not be a “prepper” group. Support and social interactions only. Guy McPherson will connect us. Thanks, Anne

I’d like to start a “NBL Drinking and/or Solidarity Society” in the U.K. (thanks to Judith Haran for the inspiration). We sister and brother realists will gather two to twelve times per year to connect and commiserate about the short-sightedness of 99.99% of our fellow humans and enjoy each other’s company. This would not be a “prepper” group: support and social interactions only. Guy McPherson will connect us. Thanks, AC in Scotland.

____________

Going Dark is available from the publisher here, from Amazon here, from Amazon on Kindle here, from Barnes & Noble on Nook here, and as a Google e-book here. Going Dark was reviewed by Carolyn Baker at Speaking Truth to Power and by P. Schneider at Amazon. As with my other books, Going Dark will lose money even before I start giving away copies.

_____________

Thanks to ulvfugl for pointing out a technical fix to the problem of the disappearing comments: “I’m using Chrome browser. Go to top right corner, click three horizontal bars, says ‘new incognito window’, get NBL, and everything is immediately updated. Can’t advise for any other browsers, but I assume it’s something to do with cookies and being tracked, etc, because being anonymous fixes it.”

Thanks to Roger Ellis for this technical tip: “I use Firefox with an extension called ‘CookieKiller.’ The icon will appear in the lower right of the browser window when installed. Click it and it gives you the choice of killing just the NBL cookies or All cookies. When you kill NBL cookies and refresh the page all the comments are updated properly. You don’t have to go into anonymous browsing mode to correct the WordPress cookies from hell bug.”

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118 Responses to “A letter to a friend who condemned me as a hopeless doomer”

  1. Gerald Spezio Says:

    Lady Die, taking mad dog doomer McPherson’s wise advice, I am proceeding as though I am in hospice now.

    Before black timeless night sucks me in, the best that I can do is try to make the most of the time left w/o doing too much more damage.

    I get my some of my jollies by riding a bike.

  2. B9K9 Says:

    The reason people cannot be made to understand is no different than why a cat cannot be a dog; genetic determinism at its finest.

    As I have constantly emphasized, we are all descendents of long-term cultivation that eliminated heretics and promoted happy, compliant and **domesticated** worker bees. As many suspect, we are the anomalies – somehow, our orientation keeps popping up, usually at the most inopportune moments. But to the vast majority of mankind, the system makes sense. That’s because it’s the very environment in which they were bred to succeed.

    Here’s a simple thought exercise: you’re the ruler of 10,000 people in an ancient agricultural center. Wouldn’t you prefer that everyone just got up dutifully each day and went to work? Who needs agitators? Thankfully, the priestly class had a good solution, in that anyone who didn’t obediently follow the established order got some, um, “special treatment”, with full approval of the gods.

    Now, fast forward 500 generations or so, and why is it any wonder that groups of people are still channeled away from critical, decision making processes? Why is that academically gifted people like Guy were directed towards education? Perhaps Guy can share with us how we was encouraged & rewarded to follow this path?

    As for the rest, forgive them for they know not what they (don’t) do. To continue to complain, whine or be depressed about the way things are is a waste of time. We have always been on a course to meet with destiny – it’s a very simple exponential equation.

    Knowing this, if you want to have any friends, it’s much wiser to take an enlightened view and interact with other people on their level(s). Consider this perspective: when you talk/play with your child, do you dwell on their impending decline & death some 40-70 years down the line? Of course not – you enjoy the moment, here & now.

    Well, why not try that method for the population at large? Just my 2 cents.

  3. Juan Pueblo Says:

    @B9K9: I reached the same conclusion. As a young boy and also as a teenager I wasted enormous amounts of time and energy trying to reach people that didn’t have the capacity to learn or didn’t want to know. Now I listen to what other people say and let them lead the conversation. I have more fun and less fights this way. Unfortunately, 99% of human animals can’t, won’t, and/or refuse to understand what is going on. Fish harder!

  4. Paul Says:

    I do reserve that there is a tiny 1% of hope…

    Heresy! We must hold an auto-da-fé!

  5. Paul Marcotte Says:

    Short and to the point. Well said and thank you. Sitting here at
    Seattle airport en route to Tucson, I can see a multitude of people
    who should read this letter but won’t. Paul, the token happy doomer surrounded
    by all the “normal” folks. Such is the doomer’s lot in life.

  6. Godofredo Aravena Says:

    Most people keep on thinking about themselves only. I mean beyond fulfilling the basic necessities.
    Living only for ourselves turns NTE into a catastrophe.
    I think that whatever comes will be an interesting challenge.
    Life is a constant challenge for most creatures. Day by day.
    Life is challenge.
    We have forgotten this reality, with insurances, monthly payment, health care system, retirement funds, food and water always ready available, etc. No surprises.
    We have forgotten what life really is. The unexpected around the corner.

    But, even in the modern way of living, if we think in doing things for the rest, to give something, life makes much sense, even with NTE coming and near. There are so many things to do. Is up to each one of us to decide what.

    I am happy to live everyday, and if I die today, it´s OK.
    I have spent my life thinking and doing things for the benefits of the society. Including the way I taught my children so they will do things not only thinking in themselves.
    I agree that we have to do three things in life:
    Have children (not more than two according to modern standards): The best way to project yourself into the future, to “change the world” and make it a better place to live.
    Plant a tree: do something for the benefit of the rest
    Write a book: leave a hardware legacy of your experiences and lessons.

  7. Tom F Says:

    So you have dropped out, quit working and stopped paying taxes? I am too chicken to do that. There is too much uncertainty about how this will play itself out and over what time frame. We have climate collapse but that will not kill us all in the short term I think. Then there is also economic collapse which is being postponed by central bankers but for how long? And peak oil which will manifest very rapidly over the next 5 years I think and will lead to economic collapse. And Fukushima which may cause total ecosystem collapse and economic collapse but who knows for sure?

    Too much uncertainty to drop out so I keep working and paying the man. If I was sure BAU would be over in the next year I would do things differently I guess.

  8. TIAA Says:

    Dear forum,

    I have noticed the sense of isolation and real isolation many have been expressing. Personally I have discussed these issues with various people I am close to and I don’t have the same response. Just the other day I was talking to my mom about these concerns and her wry comment was ‘we better get down on our knees and kiss the sweet earth before it is so hot we burn our lips off trying to kiss it goodbye.’ I said ‘yeah well a good friend suggests first thing is we stock up on the liquor cabinet.’ We both laughed, that kind of sad but joyous relief. We know, we all know at this point but have different ways of coping and knowing what little we can do. Be compassionate not only for yourself and your own awareness but also of others. There is really no boogey man out there, just humans, very imperfect, doing their best and screwing up royally. When that awareness is in your heart those around you can connect and commiserate in their own way. That is hospice.

  9. Godofredo Aravena Says:

    I keep a very normal life. Pay my taxes, live in a city, etc..
    But I am always thinking how I can make this world, a better place to live, for all of us. Certainly within my reach, so the world is a too big word.
    Maybe is just half of a cent. But I have to do something, things within my range. I do not expect to receive something in return. I do not know if what I do today, will have some significance in the future. It is part of the game, uncertainty.

  10. Guy McPherson Says:

    Same-day update, also listed in the CLASSIFIEDS: I’d like to start a “NBL Drinking and/or Solidarity Society” in the U.K. (thanks to Judith Haran for the inspiration). We sister and brother realists will gather two to twelve times per year to connect and commiserate about the short-sightedness of 99.99% of our fellow humans and enjoy each other’s company. This would not be a “prepper” group: support and social interactions only. Guy McPherson will connect us. Thanks, AC in Scotland.

  11. izzy Says:

    “I’m also now free from the rat race, free from working for the man, and also free from paying the man.”

    That’s a powerful statement, can you flesh it out a little? I’m all in sympathy with the idea, but having taken Tim’s advice to “drop out” 40+ years ago, and even living in a rural hot bed of alternative experiments, I can’t say I’ve ever run across anyone who has successfully decoupled from the system entirely. What are your circumstances and how did you do it?

  12. Godofredo Aravena Says:

    Near future?

  13. Artleads Says:

    @ TIAA

    Thanks for my heartiest laugh in a long time. Your mom SURE is funny! Yes, it’s such a relief to see everybody as equally unknowing and at a loss. It clears away paranoia and fear of the other.

    @ Godolfredo

    “Maybe is just half of a cent. But I have to do something, things within my range. I do not expect to receive something in return. I do not know if what I do today, will have some significance in the future. It is part of the game, uncertainty.”

    This is roughly how it strikes me too. Do your kind deeds in secret, and expect no rewards. As Wendell Berry says, we don’t have the right to know whether what we do will save the world. That is not our business.

    BTW, I looked at your three things to do with some bemusement. There might well be no one left to read that book of yours. And having children–although I have three–doesn’t necessarily seem like a plan in today’s world. Planting a tree…I’d go for that.

  14. Grant Schreiber Says:

    The only thing that is a constant is uncertainty. We seem to be at Peak Everything, not only material goods, but cultural ones as well. It’s not so much a question of surviving, but being able to die with some modicum of dignity and with the least amount as pain as possible. Knowing that suffering and loss is the future pushes everything in the present into a sharper focus And even then, it still gets hard to care all the time.

    The absurdity of the situation keeps popping up. The latest joke in the news was if Vice President Biden was going to bring up human rights in China. Any Chinese official must bite the inside of his cheek to keep from bursting out laughing at the notion. Uncle Sam Torture Cell, with the largest prison system in the world, worried that China might be abusing people in the factories that are making our Black Fridays so very special. Cheese and crackers, it will be hard to keep from giggling all the way to the gas chamber.

  15. Kirk Hamilton Says:

    Lady Die, thanks for sharing. You certainly exposed the magnitude of our impending loss. You’ve also inspired quite a few fine responses so far.

    We’re a good bunch of people here at NBL. Hopefully you will become one of the regulars.

    I just found out that my state, Florida, has more incarcerated people than either Cuba or Iran. Iranic, er, I mean ironic ain’t it? The privatized prison system has created another corporate feeding frenzy with the poor as the primary victims. But here’s the twist: corporate prisons are refusing prisoners with mental problems. Do I see gas chambers on the horizon! Why not, we’ve turned our entire planet into a gas chamber. I’ve got my bar of soap and my towel. But, cheese whiz,
    those shower heads don’t look right. ;(

  16. TIAA Says:

    Dear mike k,

    Great link. Thanks :-)

    It is interesting because complexity and the fragmented specialization it brings is not something we cannot move beyond. Indeed, if our concious evolution had time to progress as it was intended, we would move past the extreme fragmentation and specialization. Something has malfunctioned to disrupt that normal growth process. My suspicion is that television and the abuse of mass media manipulation is at the root. T.V. is currently in it’s death throes but I am not sure at all about the timing. I am still recovering from the punch in the face compliments Guy. But I am recovering from that shock. While I am alive, there is time, time to love, time to laugh, time to kiss the good earth.

    Dear Artleads, thanks so much for your words, sometimes I feel the echo chamber effect starts to haunt me. :-)

  17. Artleads Says:

    @ grant s,

    Maybe this link posted by mike K addresses your peak everything:

    http://www.csrwire.com/blog/posts/1116-sustainability-and-complexity-are-we-doomed-to-repeat-history

    Although the system is eroding rapidly, the comparative ease and luxury it provides for most people can’t be overlooked. Even in our dire straights, so much seems to work so much better to average perception than a return to pre-civilization that it’s nigh impossible to alert people to the crisis. What a Faustian bargain we inherit!

    Maybe the gentlest of nudges provide the best possible prospect of modification to the system?

  18. Mac in MN Says:

    @Lady Die
    Thank you for your clear and direct description of the gulf between the world views and the resulting actions that arise from same. Here is another example of the relative power of different value/belief systems

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/04/alec-freerider-homeowners-assault-clean-energy

    As a fellow who until 2 yrs ago was actively trying to save the world in the energy efficiency and renewable energy business. I came to realize the pain was not bad enough to provoke enough folks to alter their conditioned behaviors, and that when the pain was sufficient it would be too late to matter. Over the past 2 years I have had to accept that it was likely too late quite a while ago.

    Tis the Season for Joyoux Hospice-tality,

    Mac in MN wearing the Crown of Creation very uncomfortably.

  19. TR Says:

    Lately my wife & I have seen the phrase “In the future..” used in relation to medicine,energy,pollution,etc. & last night after hearing this again she said: “In the future,it will be too damn late.”

    Gerald Spezio Says:
    “..McPherson’s wise advice, I am proceeding as though I am in hospice now.”

    A version that works for me is: “I’ve got a Death Grip on my Mortality.”

    Since it’s gift giving season;
    Those of us that are living in the “Now”,have already opened our “Present”.

  20. Grant Schreiber Says:

    Artleads: “What a Faustian bargain we inherit!”

    But of course, there is no Mephistopheles to trick us. It is a completely doomed HUMAN bargain that had done us in. It seems clear though that not only are environmental systems under incredible strain, but so are governmental, economic, and societal systems. Everything seems to be moving towards a grand upheaval and collapse all roughly at the same time. The good news being that afterwards, I will never ever have to work again, hear the latest gossip on the Important People or wonder what to do with myself on any given day. The bad news is starvation, violence and sudden isolation as all these electric gadgets that join us together in fragile connection start switching off rapidly. The end of the human race will be a lonely spot.

    It is possible, depending on how the various stages of collapse play off on one another, that there will be a period of buoyancy for a few people, confused into believing that falling into an abyss is actually flying. And then the rocky bottom looms into view and the brief surge of happiness is completely smashed.

    Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.
    Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
    And there was no one left alive
    to pick up the pieces.

  21. ulvfugl Says:

    Thailand: police lay down their gear in solidarity with protestors demanding premier’s resignation.

    https://twitter.com/asoueif/status/408407887266861056/photo/1/large

  22. bradhp Says:

    @Lady Die

    Are you familiar with the other Lady Di from Halifax?

  23. ulvfugl Says:

    The Jungle is the largest of many Silicon Valley homeless encampments, and the 65 acres bordering Coyote Creek in San Jose can be home to up to 175 people at a time.

    It is the largest homeless encampment in the continental United States.

    From kids to convicts to moms and dads and the mentally ill, The Jungle is a desperate mix of people out of whatever options they might have once had.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/the-jungle-largest-homeless-camp-in-us-2013-8?op=1#ixzz2maqATXwi

  24. Reverse Engineer Says:

    “I do reserve that there is a tiny 1% of hope that something miraculous could happen”-LD

    I get a significantly higher Hopium percentage number by my calculations. It is more like a 3.14159% chance we will avoid Extinction over a Millenia long timeline, and a 6.02*10^-23% probability of Extinction in the next week.

    I arrived at these numbers after careful research and then application of Fibonacci sequencing to a Fourier Transform calibrated against total energy release from Geotectonic forces and total gigatons of CO2 released through anthropogenic causes. Kludge Factors include Dick Cheney’s Social Security Number and Kim Kardashian’s Phone Bill.

    Since I do not at the moment have access to a Super Computer, I was only able to run these numbers through my Android OP System Samsung Galaxy phone, but I am reasonably certain the results are correct to within +- 3 Standard Deviations.

    So, do not lose HOPIUM, Uber Doomers! This may yet work itself out!

    RE

    RE

  25. Liree Says:

    Hey Guy, do you get wood from (apparently) convincing a bagful of half-wits that the world is ending?

    You joker.

  26. Kim Says:

    hey ulvfugl

    on another thread you suggested routing to a website called “4Chan”.

    This is a website for teenagers who dont know any better and old perverts looking for the most vile porn available outside TOR browsing.

    How do you even know about this place?

  27. Tom Says:

    Liree: try attacking the facts instead of going after the messenger.

    http://robinwestenra.blogspot.co.nz/2013/12/fukushima-update-12042013.html

    Fukushima update – 12/04/2013

    Fukushima NRC Cover-Up w/ Michael Ruppert & Hatrick Penry (Plume-Gate)

    Here is the interview you’ve all been waiting for. Great news, Hatrick Penry got an invite to return with more information! Here’s the link to the interview on LiveBoat Hour (55 min. video)

  28. Tom Says:

    http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/2013-marks-record-year-for-the-number-of-volcanoes-erupting-across-the-planet/

    December 5, 2013 – GEOLOGY – This year will go down on record, as seeing the most volcanic eruptions recorded in modern history. The previous number was set in 2010, at 82 volcanic eruptions for the year. The number of volcanoes erupting across the planet has been steadily rising from a meager number of just 55 recorded in 1990. While most scientists may readily dismiss any significance to the latest figures and may be quick to say the planet is just experiencing normal geological activity, it does raise other concerns about just what may be transpiring within the interior of our planet. The average number of volcanic eruptions per year should be about 50 to 60; as of December 5, 2013, we already at 83. Volcanic eruptions are one way the planet dissipates a dangerous build-up of heat, magma, and pressurized gases. The planet’s outer core is thought to flirt with critical temperatures in the range of around 4400 °C (8000 °F). Any rise or major fluctuation in interior gradient could have profound and disruptive effects on processes whose very properties are government by convective heat emanating from the planet’s outer core: magnetic field propagation, tectonic plate movements, sea-floor spreading mechanics, and mantle plume activity. Mantle plumes or hotspots are thought to be the central mechanism which fuels the vast underground chambers of many of the world’s supervolcanoes. –The Extinction Protocol

  29. ulvfugl Says:

    @ Kim

    How do you even know about this place?

    Simple. I know everything. That’s how I know that you and Liree are trolls.

  30. Grant Schreiber Says:

    Artleads: “What a Faustian bargain we inherit!”

    But there is no Mephistopheles to offer the deal, is there? What a terrible HUMAN bargain we have to face.

    Several forces appear to heading for collapse, and while we’re concerned with many environmental ones here, there are also troubling signs of a disturbed society as we stumble ever deeper into fascism and fear. Being terrified is an industry now. There is no peak level of Fear.

    So it all winds up before it all winds down. Good News: soon your bills and money woes will be a thing of the past. You will no longer have to know anything about any of the Important People’s gaffs or nipple slips or drug habits. All material gains will cease. Bad News: you get to starve to death. Unless suicide is more appealing.

    Along with the Bad News is that our fragile connection to the world and each other via all these electric gadgets will come to an end. The death of the human race will a lonely affair for most people. For some the fall into the abyss will be mistaken for flying until they hit bottom. There will be deniers and charlatans and utopia prophets until the last breath of man ends.

    Humpty Dumpty sat on a Wall (street)
    Humpty Dumpty had a great fall (neat)
    All the King’s horses and all the King’s men
    were busy with their own misery until the very end.

  31. buz painter Says:

    There are new saplings here for most of you who will not or can not plant them yourself. At last count in the neighborhood of 500. My greatest fear is that I might outlive the very trees which I planted. This last summer I saw disquieting evidence of distress among many of the trees, particularly the Black Walnut. When I began my woodcarving career some 40 years ago Black Walnut became the wood of choice. It remains my favorite carving wood.

    I feel depression settling over me like a wet blanket in recent months. So yesterday I opened my guitar case. I also pulled out the dulcimer which I built many years ago and replaced the strings. Next stop the leather store where I will pick up some rawhide in order to make a drum head. On the way I think I will drop off my clarinet at the music store to get the pads replaced. After that we’ll see. Other than drinking heavily I don’t see anything else to do.

  32. mike k Says:

    @kim & liree – Check out this link describing your work; as crude and sub-par as your efforts are, you need professional help if your smears are going to be effective…

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/11/nsa-tracks-porn-discredit-activists.html

  33. mike k Says:

    @Buz painter – Alcohol, street drugs, and doctor prescribed drugs are a piss-poor solution to depression. I know that because I tried for years to treat my suicidal blues with all that stuff to no avail. The expression “the cure is worse than the disease” became full of meaning for me in this process. What finally worked for me was meditation, supplements like B-12, fish oil, etc. and AA.

    Another idea: When you get all your musical instruments in top shape, build yourself a rig so you an do a one man band number. Dry out the old wet blanket, write some songs describing your days in hell and subsequent rising therefrom. Make a video, which will probably go viral on u-tube. Fans will clamor for an album, it will go platinum, and your dark days will be a distant memory…..

  34. Tom Says:

    Some think the NSA is the only trouble. Look at this:

    http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/12/bgp-hijacking-belarus-iceland/

    Someone’s Been Siphoning Data Through a Huge Security Hole in the Internet

    (it begins)

    In 2008, two security researchers at the DefCon hacker conference demonstrated a massive security vulnerability in the worldwide internet traffic-routing system — a vulnerability so severe that it could allow intelligence agencies, corporate spies or criminals to intercept massive amounts of data, or even tamper with it on the fly.

    The traffic hijack, they showed, could be done in such a way that no one would notice because the attackers could simply re-route the traffic to a router they controlled, then forward it to its intended destination once they were done with it, leaving no one the wiser about what had occurred.

    Now, five years later, this is exactly what has happened. Earlier this year, researchers say, someone mysteriously hijacked internet traffic headed to government agencies, corporate offices and other recipients in the U.S. and elsewhere and redirected it to Belarus and Iceland, before sending it on its way to its legitimate destinations. They did so repeatedly over several months. But luckily someone did notice.

    And this may not be the first time it has occurred — just the first time it got caught.

    Analysts at Renesys, a network monitoring firm, said that over several months earlier this year someone diverted the traffic using the same vulnerability in the so-called Border Gateway Protocol, or BGP, that the two security researchers demonstrated in 2008. The BGP attack, a version of the classic man-in-the-middle exploit, allows hijackers to fool other routers into re-directing data to a system they control. When they finally send it to its correct destination, neither the sender nor recipient is aware that their data has made an unscheduled stop.

    The stakes are potentially enormous, since once data is hijacked, the perpetrator can copy and then comb through any unencrypted data freely — reading email and spreadsheets, extracting credit card numbers, and capturing vast amounts of sensitive information.

    The attackers initiated the hijacks at least 38 times, grabbing traffic from about 1,500 individual IP blocks — sometimes for minutes, other times for days — and they did it in such a way that, researchers say, it couldn’t have been a mistake.

    Renesys Senior Analyst Doug Madory says initially he thought the motive was financial, since traffic destined for a large bank got sucked up in the diversion. But then the hijackers began diverting traffic intended for the foreign ministries of several countries he declined to name, as well as a large VoIP provider in the U.S., and ISPs that process the internet communications of thousands of customers.

    Although the intercepts originated from a number of different systems in Belarus and Iceland, Renesys believes the hijacks are all related, and that the hijackers may have altered the locations to obfuscate their activity.

    “What makes a man-in-the-middle routing attack different from a simple route hijack? Simply put, the traffic keeps flowing and everything looks fine to the recipient,…” Renesys wrote in a blog post about the hijacks. “It’s possible to drag specific internet traffic halfway around the world, inspect it, modify it if desired, and send it on its way. Who needs fiberoptic taps?”

  35. Grant Schreiber Says:

    Mike K tells buz painter: “Another idea: When you get all your musical instruments in top shape, build yourself a rig so you an do a one man band number. Dry out the old wet blanket, write some songs describing your days in hell and subsequent rising therefrom. Make a video, which will probably go viral on u-tube. Fans will clamor for an album, it will go platinum, and your dark days will be a distant memory…..”

    I don’t think I have ever read a more convincing reason to commit suicide in my life. You’re a cruel man, Mike K.

  36. Reverse Engineer Says:

    “December 5, 2013 – GEOLOGY – This year will go down on record, as seeing the most volcanic eruptions recorded in modern history.”-Tom

    Still further evidence that Geotectonics are the major driver here in terms of Global Climate Change.

    http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/2012/04/02/geotectonic-ocean-heat-transfer-theory/

    That the Earth is releasing far more energy on a daily basis than it was 30 years ago is well evidenced by the earthquake history. This energy is being transferred into the Ocean, then transferred into the Atmosphere, not the other way round.

    There is evidence also that the Volcanoes under the antarctic ice sheets are becoming more active, melting the sheet from the Bottom Up, much more efficient than top down melting.

    http://english.pravda.ru/science/earth/05-12-2013/126313-antarctica-0/

    The likelihood is that we exacerbate an ongoing problem with CO2 emissions from fossil fuels, but it is probably not the driving force here. Also likely is even if we stopped industrial living on a dime, it wouldn’t stop the ongoing climate change.

    The only real Hopium is that as yet unidentified feedback loops exist which prevent a Venusian style warming past the PETM. We are likely to find out if that is so sooner rather than later.

    In any event, I don’t think the blame for Planetary Extinction can be laid entirely at the feet of Homo Sapiens here. Mother Earth herself has a bad Fever down Deep. We are not making the situation any better though.

    RE

  37. the virgin terry Says:

    ‘we are all descendents of long-term cultivation that eliminated heretics and promoted happy, compliant and **domesticated** worker bees’

    (not so?) nice doggy (b9k9), right on! civilization domesticates plants and animals, as civilized rulers domesticate their sheeple. it’s been going on a long enough time i fear/expect to have severe genetic effects, a dumbing down, as compliance with ‘authority’ requires. don’t think, obey. don’t question. be intolerant towards those who do. be good little dogma abusing authoritarian followers. be foolish and irrational in your ‘faith’ and devotion. be the sort of sheeple that are ‘productive’ and highly exploitable, and u will be loved by tptb.

  38. Mac in MN Says:

    Living with the new awareness – “You will see it when you believe it.” taken from AA and numerous recovery programs. The 12 Steps have a high likelyhood of transforming the consciousness of the person that “follows our simple program”

    Many find it possible to live One Day at A Time, with increased compassion, gratitude, and less judgementalism.

    Here is a revision of the Steps posted by Ray Wharton on the Archdruid’s blog.

    1. We admitted we were powerless to make Fossil Use sustainable—and that our lives had become unmanageable.
    2. Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity and sustainability.
    3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of Life as we understood Her.
    4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves and our consumption.
    5. Admitted to Life, to Gaia, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
    6. Were entirely ready to have Life remove all these defects of character.
    7. Humbly asked Her to remove our shortcomings.
    8. Made a list of all persons, cultures, species, and ecosystems we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
    9. Made direct amends to those harmed wherever possible, except when to do so would use more irreplaceable resources.
    10. Continued to take personal inventory, and when we were Using Fossil, promptly admitted it.
    11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with Life and the cycles of life, praying only for knowledge of her Way for us and the power to follow that.
    12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to the Fossil Addicts, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

    12/4/13, 10:41 PM

    mac in MN wearing the Crown of Creation very uncomfortably.

  39. mike k Says:

    @Grant S. – I hope buz has more of an operative sense of humor than you seem to manifest. Did you really think my bit of whimsy was a serious suggestion? The serious part of my sharing was in the initial para re: Booze is not a desirable treatment for depression. That I meant with total seriousness. I spend a fair amount of my time now sharing with people like me who have had big problems with their drugs of choice, at a treatment center down the road from my farm. Lighten up Grant. Being too serious can lead to thoughts of ending it all. I know – been there.

  40. mass Says:

    Chris Hedges mentions extinction at the end of this video. I wonder if Guy’s message is getting a larger audience? At 22:30,

    http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=11150

  41. Artleads Says:

    Over hundreds of years, Western civilization has never collapsed irremediably. I don’t think 99% of the population can believe it could do so now. It would be almost like having them be convinced that the sun wouldn’t come out tomorrow.

    Still, they can see plenty that they don’t like and would change. So maybe those relatively inconsequential changes is all they could support. Tantamount to driving in a six inch nail with a wooden hammer.

  42. mike k Says:

    @Grant S. – Maybe you were just kidding too? Now I am confused. In addition to the tricky mixing of the comic and the serious, there is the lack of body language and tone that tells us so much in a face to face conversation. Sorry if I misinterpreted your remark…

  43. logspirit Says:

    Gary Null Ph.D., a reputable source, reports that there are about 16,000 homeless veterans languishing in the national forest near Titusville, Florida. They’re there without running water or electricity, without sanitation, reliable food, medical care, or other comforts and necessities that are frequently presumed by currently more fortunate citizens. The homeless vets are frequently arrested for ‘crimes’ like sitting on park benches – while homeless. There are more than 800,000 abandoned homeless vets in America. Annually about a million fresh families from all walks of life join the great alienation of homelessness in America. Living from couch to couch, in cars and vans, in tents… in threadbare jackets… Young families with children, middle aged and old alike are getting pulled under. Sucked into unfamiliar, dangerous, dirty, miserable territory. Often suddenly, without expectation or warning. One moment people are amongst the fortunate, full of disdain for the homeless, the next they’re there too, on the street, out in the forest, wondering what hit them. Wondering why no help is available.

    The typical wage of a full time worker at the world’s largest retailer, Wal-Mart, provides a life… of poverty. Wal-mart is subsidized by tax roll social services like food stamps used by their employees to the tune of about $900,000 annually per store location. McDonalds also encourages employees to buffer low wages with public funds – so the private ‘elite’ can suck up exorbitant profits for stock holders and give themselves unjustified and absurdly bloated executive salaries and fat bonuses. Burp. Fries with that?

    Homelessness is a rapidly spreading plague in the ‘greatest nation’ ever contrived. Indeed, it is an epidemic which is propagating globally. Many here know why this is happening… It is the result of fundamental resource depletions and ensuing scarcities and price inflations. The manifestations are warped by banking and financial manipulations, such as holding vacant housing off the market to artificially maintain ‘values’… while people are homeless, because they can’t afford, on low corporate wages, to live in a house. This is the collapse of industrial civilization.

    Meanwhile, the right wing media continues to blame homeless victims… calling us lazy and drug addled. Recently FOX ‘news’ dressed up one of their ‘reporters’ in dirty clothes and a fake beard to pan handle for a day on the streets of New York City… and claim that a person there could ‘easily’ get 90 tax free dollars by begging outdoors, on the streets, 8 hours a day… $24K a year, enduring torrid summers, cold rains and freezing winters, and taunts and threats and official police harassment. Obviously the intention of the report was to get working class folks pissed off at homeless folks who don’t ‘work’. Divide and conquer. Lets see, $90 a day… hmmm… that’s maybe enough to barely survive, homelessly, in New York City. Humiliated before their former neighbors. Begging for life and mercy out on the streets.

    I am homeless. I speak from the vanguard. Living this way is unpleasant and painful. People, get ready. This is the nature of collapse, as nature collapses under our weight. Somehow, human extinction doesn’t seem one bit strange from this perspective. In fact, it is clearly inevitable.

    Please consider giving something to a homeless person during this holiday season – if you can. (Donations appreciated – contact Guy.) And please, support Guy, and this site, if you can, as we gather here in our final hours before the lights go off forever. We need each other in these dark terrors.

    For Gary Null’s audio interview with Chris Hedges on homeless veterans in America, the source of the 16,000/800,000 figures: http://youtu.be/PRStmDp3A28

  44. Reverse Engineer Says:

    One more thing.

    I have been following the commentary here more than in the past since Guy cross posted the Refugees of Climate Change article I wrote.

    The overwhelming Group Think here is it is OVAH. Extinction right around the bend here. Which it may be, but ask yourself this question even if you believe this to be truth:

    “How do I want to go OUT of this world and into the Great Beyond?”

    Do you want to be alone in the basement playing on the X-Box, or would you rather be together with friends singing and dancing around the Campfire?

    Would you rather try and figure out how to survive in a changed world or just give it up and quit?

    Realize, regardless of whether CO2 emissions are the primary driver or not, at SOME POINT, some group of currently ambient Homo Sapiens would face the End of Life on Earth. Baked in the Cake, had to happen at some point in the timeline.

    So, if you do believe this is “The End”, you won the Extinction LOTTO. Of all the Homo Sapiens who lived on Earth over lo these last 75,000 years or so since Toba went Ballistic, you got to be alive, witness and be part of the End of the Species, if not the End of All Life on Earth. That is quite a lucky roll of the dice.

    If that is your belief, then how do you want to go out of this life? How do you want to walk into the Great Beyond?

    Personally, I am not Hopeless here. Perhaps you can punch holes in my ideas and solutions, but I am not going to leave this world a QUITTER. Besides that, there is at least a marginal chance one might WORK! Slim chance is better than NO CHANCE. QUIT, and you have NO CHANCE.

    Finally, even if we at SUN do FAIL, we go out TOGETHER, and we go out fighting the good fight. We go out embracing each other, and all that is good in this world. I envision no better way possible to die.

    That is how I will walk into the Great Beyond when the time comes. I will make that last crossing of the Great Divide satisfied I gave it my all, my best shot. How will you make your Exit?

    RE

  45. Shizel Says:

    The reason for the volcanic upswing is that the earth’s magnetic pole shift is accelerating to the point where a planetary pole flip will likely occur. These flips can take a few to a 1000 years. What happens is, that instead of just the normal two poles. We end up with up to several different poles during this interval. These poles will roam the planet spending as much time as a decade over any one area bombarding plant and animal life with massive radiation burns.

    http://www.cultureunplugged.com/documentary/watch-online/play/7350/Call-of-Life–Facing-the-Mass-Extinction

  46. Grant Schreiber Says:

    Mike K: I was hoping the over-the-top reaction was clear, but yes, that meant to be funny. No harm done. It is true though that reading comments without any visual cues can lead to misunderstandings, but I just don’t have it in me to write in those cues via smiley faces, HHOK, or having to inform people sarcasm is in play. I’ve come to the point where absolutely nothing is serious anymore, least of all the impending doom we’ve thrust upon the planet. I remain angry and woeful over the loss of plants and animals, but the human race can go ahead and sit on a tack.

    If I read one more report featuring the punchline “scientists were taken by surprise by the speed and widespread effect of (fill in the global warming event)” I might stop reading the reports entirely and just make quacking noises. Insanity seems to be the most rational response.

  47. Kirk Hamilton Says:

    @mass. Thanks for the excellent interview with Chris Hedges! What an intelligent fellow he is!

  48. Grant Schreiber Says:

    RE: “How do I want to go OUT of this world and into the Great Beyond?”

    It’s the wrong question. In NTE death has lost all meaning. If everyone is dead, your life can’t be remembered or mourned. Death is a foregone conclusion and it always has been. The question is “How do I want to LIVE in the time left?”

    Given that we’ve been murdered in advance by very well-thinking, serious people, I have decided to be a fool. I’m too old for revolutionary arms, although I support any kind of resistance, but I’m still young enough to use mockery, cheap jabs, bad puns, and fart noises. Fuck the Great Beyond. I’m here. And my clown makeup is on.

  49. Godofredo Aravena Says:

    “It takes courage to realize there will be no one to remember us”
    What is the need to be remebered if we are going to be dead?. Does Beethoven cares about being remembered?
    Things mean only if we receive something in return?
    Life has significance only if we are remembered?
    Why to be remebered (with name)?.
    The most relevant thing about today and our future is how the lessons we have got in such a hardly way, at a so high cost, will reach the next generations. Whoever-whatever they are. I am sure there will be some intelligent specie after us (maybe humans). We can learn so much from our view in the rearview mirror.

    About hope, to me it is a short term concept, kind of “hope that I will find the way to be alive tomorrow” and enjoy the ride. Life is change, is surprise. Welcome surprise, welcome unknown. And welcome the effort required to foresee, to plan in advance (A, B and C). Welcome the effort to adapt.
    What matters in the end are the actions taken along the way. And we decide.
    We are alone in our bodies, we need the rest, we have to learn to do things in community, but no matter how crowded is the space, we are alone. We decide.
    Hope? What are we talking about? It is up to us.
    I am (probably) a doomer, but I feel lucky by being able to live in first person this first time in history moment. Maybe that it is because I accepted already I am dead, so one more day alive, is another chance to do something that may be helpful (in some way) to my descendants.
    Sometimes it is hard for me to understand so many dark feelings I find here at NBL.
    I agree with Reverse Engineer, there are still so many things to do, no reason to see our near and long term future so dark. The future is something to be written.
    We are going to write it.
    That is a powerful enough reason to be happy to be alive, today.

  50. Tom Says:

    Signs of Change November Hawkeye Davis

  51. PMB Says:

    @mass
    Regarding the Hedges interview and his mention of extinction. I don’t think that it is Guy’s message getting a larger audience (although that is certainly possible). Isn’t it possible (and wouldn’t we want it to be) that people are arriving at this from different points of view which gives more credence to the conclusion Guy has come to?

    Even Heinberg acknowledges in private that we are closing in on extinction (as per a guest piece a few weeks ago) and I know that in private McKibben will address population and say exactly the same thing, “What good will it do to talk about it?”

    Personally, both men who are public figures at the head of this “movement” are a disgrace. They are not truth tellers and I find them to be bereft of any substantial morals or ethics.

    @Godofredo
    I’m still processing the recommendation to have children in the prior thread (2 is sustainable???? in a world of 7.2 Billion heading towards 9 or 10 Billion). Why not recommend adopting instead of breeding more? I had to reread Guy’s climate summary again after reading that post. Get a copy of 10 Billion from your local library and see where we are heading before making such a recommendation in the future.

    @RE
    “overwhelming group think”
    I’ve always felt that we have enough difficulties communicating when we are physically present and via using only typed words it becomes more difficult to have any sense of the nuance. So, I had to wonder if this was a joke.

    Why use the word overwhelming? It isn’t as if we are a huge number of people. This place on the net is a miniscule haven for those who are considering these issues.

    Would or could the same description of overwhelming be ascribed to those Jews (or non Jews) who resided in the US during the 30′s and tried to get other Jews and (non Jews) as well as the administration to take some action before the situation went exponential in Germany?

    Am reading Collaboration: Hollywood’s Pact With Hitler and Ben Hecht’s A Child of the Century. The parallels to Hecht’s efforts to get people to do something seems very similar to Guy’s efforts.
    In both cases the result was failure. I’m accepting Guy’s feelings when he says he failed. What he set out to do did not happen. In Hecht’s case he attempted to prevent the death of Jews on such a massive scale and he failed. Guy tried to prevent the death of biosphere.

    Seems you are saying that the impact Homo Sapiens have had on the current situation is less than what is being stated. It comes across to me with you placing most the blame in the hands of mother nature. Was this a correct interpretation on my part? Sounds similar to so much of what I’ve heard through most of my life when people try to avoid accepting responsibility for their actions. People could easily take this and rationalize continuing to behave as they currently do.

    I’ve only been posting recently after following the site regularly since last March. I highly respect Hedges, his experiences at seeing the results of war up close enhances what he has to say. For myself I’m the survivor of the AIDS plague of the 80′s. I know of what I speak when I say that watching people die in such huge numbers right before your eyes is a life changing event. Daily visits to hospital, a couple of deaths a week and your own mortality at age 30 is reality few others can speak of. This was an ongoing situation that seemed at the time to have no end in site. I wish we could hear from others who have faced a similar situation on this site.

  52. logspirit Says:

    My following post seems to have been lost in the ether. It was assigned as comment-113190 to this thread, but it never appeared. Another attempt:

    Gary Null Ph.D., a reputable source, reports that there are about 16,000 homeless veterans languishing in the national forest near Titusville, Florida. They’re there without running water or electricity, without sanitation, reliable food, medical care, or other comforts and necessities that are frequently presumed by currently more fortunate citizens. The homeless vets are frequently arrested for ‘crimes’ like sitting on park benches – while homeless. There are more than 800,000 abandoned homeless vets in America. Annually about a million fresh families from all walks of life join the great alienation of homelessness in America. Living from couch to couch, in cars and vans, in tents… in threadbare jackets… Young families with children, middle aged and old alike are getting pulled under. Sucked into unfamiliar, dangerous, dirty, miserable territory. Often suddenly, without expectation or warning. One moment people are amongst the fortunate, full of disdain for the homeless, the next they’re there too, on the street, out in the forest, wondering what hit them. Wondering why no help is available.

    The typical wage of a full time worker at the world’s largest retailer, Wal-Mart, provides a life… of poverty. Wal-mart is subsidized by tax roll social services like food stamps used by their employees to the tune of about $900,000 annually per store location. McDonalds also encourages employees to buffer low wages with public funds – so the private ‘elite’ can suck up exorbitant profits for stock holders and give themselves unjustified and absurdly bloated executive salaries and fat bonuses. Burp. Fries with that?

    Homelessness is a rapidly spreading plague in the ‘greatest nation’ ever contrived. Indeed, it is an epidemic which is propagating globally. Many here know why this is happening… It is the result of fundamental resource depletions and ensuing scarcities and price inflations. The manifestations are warped by banking and financial manipulations, such as holding vacant housing off the market to artificially maintain ‘values’… while people are homeless, because they can’t afford, on low corporate wages, to live in a house. This is the collapse of industrial civilization.

    Meanwhile, the right wing media continues to blame homeless victims… calling us lazy and drug addled. Recently FOX ‘news’ dressed up one of their ‘reporters’ in dirty clothes and a fake beard to pan handle for a day on the streets of New York City… and claim that a person there could ‘easily’ get 90 tax free dollars by begging outdoors, on the streets, 8 hours a day… $24K a year, enduring torrid summers, cold rains and freezing winters, and taunts and threats and official police harassment. Obviously the intention of the report was to get working class folks pissed off at homeless folks who don’t ‘work’. Divide and conquer. Lets see, $90 a day… hmmm… that’s maybe enough to barely survive, homelessly, in New York City. Humiliated before their former neighbors. Begging for life and mercy out on the streets.

    I am homeless. I speak from the vanguard. Living this way is unpleasant and painful. People, get ready. This is the nature of collapse, as nature collapses under our weight. Somehow, human extinction doesn’t seem one bit strange from this perspective. In fact, it is clearly inevitable.

    Please consider giving something to a homeless person during this holiday season – if you can. (Donations appreciated – contact Guy.) And please, support Guy, and this site, if you can, as we gather here in our final hours before the lights go off forever. We need each other in these dark terrors.

    For Gary Null’s audio interview with Chris Hedges on homeless veterans in America, the source of the 16,000/800,000 figures: http://youtu.be/PRStmDp3A28

  53. Godofredo Aravena Says:

    To PMB

    The message about “having children” goes beyond the words itself. It is a metaphor in some way. Because, children, ours or from others, are the way to transmit our very personal learnings and perceptions about what is correct. So through them, we can sow the seeds for a better world, sometime in the future.
    Children are more than just a way for continuity of our specie.
    If for some time, to have children may not be the right thing to do, in some moment it will a necessity again, and in that scenario, two at most seems to be the right number, to keep population within a sustainable number. Something certainly to be decided at the moment.

  54. PMB Says:

    Godofredo

    Thank you for clarifying. I believe I understand from whence you speak. We are looking out into two different scenes. You and I are live in different universes. Not sure how the two can coexist. The world I live in says No Biosphere = No life (in the form that we know).

    From my understanding at 7 Billion we are not at a sustainable number and if we calculate consumption factor (The “developed” world consumes at 20-60 times each person in the “undeveloped” world) into the equation there are much more than 7 Billion.

    According to the book This Mortal Sea by Jeffrey Bolster (a great read by the way) we’ve been encroaching on the sea life for centuries.

    As i wrote I’ve seen death on a scale most of us haven’t or don’t talk about so that forms my POV.

    Last post for the day as per the 2 post per day agreement.

  55. Reverse Engineer Says:

    Why do I call it group think? Well, after spending the last couple of weeks reading through 100s of comments, with virtually no exceptions the following 2 postulates are Received Truth:

    1- NTHE is a virtual certainty
    2- The cause is entirely anthropogenic

    You would have a better chance going into the Fundy Church of Holly Rollers down in the Bible Belt and finding one who would deny Jesus Christ was the Son of God than a chance of finding someone on NBL who would deny either of those postulates. LOL.

    What follows that is some variety of discussion of Kubler-Ross stages of grief and then a general disgust with the shallow and wasteful culture we live in.

    Far as assigning blame here goes, I put 100% of the blame of turning the environment into a toxic sewer on Homo Sapiens. I also put 100% of the blame on HS for depleting soil fertility and fresh water aquifers. Also 100% to blame for overshooting biomass capacity for this species on the planet.

    Even if the climate was not changing, continuing down the current road would lead to extinction, since we would be neck deep in our own sewage.

    On the Climate level, no climate model which does not account for the energy release of the earth can be accurate. It is clear just from Volcanic eruptions how much they affect climate, Toba after all nearly wiped out Homo Sapiens.

    At this point, it is probably 50-50 contributions here accelerating the trip along some, but even without the anthropogenic contribution, the climate would be changing based on increased energy release from the earth. There is no understanding even of what is causing this, much less an understanding of whether there are feedback loops to slow it down or reverse it. Without a full understanding of the processes involved here, making a firm prediction is out of the question.

    Finally, nobody needs to be alive to “remember” you. Most people are forgotten by the living quite soon after they die, even by relatives. Your life exists forever in eternity. Every moment you ever lived always exists, that is your place in the corporeal, physical universe. If some Extra-Universal creature were to visit this Universe and pick some time I was alive for the visit, I would like that being to see a good man. That is the legacy I would like to leave anyhow.

    So, it doesn’t really matter if we are going extinct or not, if Homo Sapiens is the cause or not. All that really matters is that you live according to good principles and do the best you can no matter what the difficulties are you face, or what the odds are either.

    With my friends on SUN, I intend to go on fighting the good fight. You can make that fight too, or you can give up. That is your decision to make.

    RE

  56. Grant Schreiber Says:

    Talk about group think!
    with virtually no exceptions the following 2 postulates are Received Truth:

    1) 2+2=4
    2) Math has uses.

    BUT Can not numbers be corrupted? Used in embezzlement and inflationary hijinks? Can you really trust math when there are other things to consider like invisible beings and faulty reasoning?

    Just because the sign says Slippery When Wet, shouldn’t you dare to find out on your own? Otherwise, you’re dead already.

    But let’s try to be Good Men. For some doing good is getting rid of all their world possessions and sitting under a tree until enlightenment is achieved. For others, doing good is driving the speed limit and wearing a seat belt the whole way, using turn signals correctly and paying their bills on time. Maybe your idea of good is to only eat vegetables, enjoy art and make sure the Jewish race is wiped out in Europe. As long as you’re doing Good, it’s all okay.

  57. AC Says:

    Hey, Grant Schreiber, I think this is only about the third time I’ve ever been prompted to post here, thanks for the serious belly laugh re the 5.44 clown make up comment, magnificent.
    A manifesto fit for every hopium free individual.

    AC.

  58. TIAA Says:

    Dear Reverse Engineer,

    I enjoyed your essay. I believe much of what you offer is very relevant to this discussion.

    Perhaps you believe the main focus of folks gathering here is a focus on the belief in NTHE or that the cause is all because of humans. I don’t share in that assertion and I have read hundreds of posts over the last few months so my point of reference seems to at least equate objectively to yours. I believe the thing that draws people here is they are sad because the irrefutable proof is that humans are not in balance with nature and there are horrific consequences to that. Ones that have already occurred, ones that are occuring and one’s that will occur. This monstrous reality once looked into is an apparent abyss with no end in sight. The only way to look and keep your sanity is to know others are looking too. We all see through our own prism in that regard and that is where light is shed into darkness. It is how the unknown may become known.

    How many people from the past who deserve nothing but our gratitude walked into the darkness of their day and great suffering was not the price for entry? So you can laugh off this process of exploration because you are not willing to go that deep into the darkness, but do you really believe you are superior because of that? I mean, what is your point here?

    Regardless, here you are, with those of us also here. Standing safely behind?

  59. B9K9 Says:

    “But let’s try to be Good Men.” Why? What’s the point? What does ‘good’ mean anyway?

    Isn’t anyone in this space competitive? Wouldn’t you like to ‘win’ going out?

    We here are at the vanguard of knowledge regarding the global environmental economy. Many seem to be under the impression that the PTB don’t have a clue, leaving only a few, enlightened souls to commiserate each other in sympathy.

    But that’s complete BS – this information isn’t hard to understand. Therefore, once you get up to speed, it isn’t difficult to plot out expected trajectories and make plans accordingly. This, of course, is exactly what the PTB are doing, but why are (so many) others discounting their own possible participation?

    Has anything ever been more of a dunkshot? Wouldn’t you rather live in comfort & luxury vs fighting for survival in a some kind of dystopian struggle on the margin(s)?

    I can’t be the only doomer who has figured out how to front-run the decline.

  60. Christy Says:

    Thanks Lady Die, and all who are posting insights, resources, and humor.

    RE states “In any event, I don’t think the blame for Planetary Extinction can be laid entirely at the feet of Homo Sapiens here. Mother Earth herself has a bad Fever down Deep.”

    And why does mother Earth herself have a fever? Could it possibly be that there is an infection of some kind — a harmful organism — that is sickening her, which her immune system is responding to? Do you imagine that what is going on “down deep” is totally isolated and separate from what is going on “up here?”

    http://www.aacn.org/WD/CETests/Media/CG0205.pdf

    “When heat production overruns heat
    dissipation, an elevated temperature
    results.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/1982/12/28/science/fever-new-view-stresses-its-healing-benefits.html

    “Various substances can prompt the development of a fever, among them viruses, bacteria, fungi, toxins, allergens and certain drugs.”

    In reference to Earth, could we not add human ecosystem destruction and toxic waste?

    Anybody else see the parallels?

  61. Godofredo Aravena Says:

    To RE

    I guess you are a bit wrong about your conclusions. There´s nothing like “THE TRUTH”. Nothing is black and white. I can see that posters here have a diversity of perceptions about present, future, and what to do. In any case, so far we can´t be 100% sure about what is going on and what causes it. Neither know what will happen effectively. We can at most suspect, and believe in some explanations. We have to choose based on our own perception, and act.
    And something important, I have noticed that whatever I believe and think, changes a bit everyday, depending on what is happening every new day. I am not afraid to say that I am in a permanent change of concepts.
    To share our perceptions and thoughts, probably may help somebody else by the way.

  62. Reverse Engineer Says:

    “And why does mother Earth herself have a fever? Could it possibly be that there is an infection of some kind — a harmful organism — that is sickening her, which her immune system is responding to? Do you imagine that what is going on “down deep” is totally isolated and separate from what is going on “up here?””-Christy

    Insofar as I know, nobody has proposed a mechanism by which surface activity on the planet would cause the core to heat up and produce more earthquakes and volcanoes.

    RE

  63. FriedrichKling Says:

    Reverse Engineer re: Earth’s fever-

    I would like to share a revelation I had during my time among the human race. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you are not true mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium- a symbiotic relationship- with the surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area and replicate without any natural limits to population growth until every natural resource is consumed and all other life is extinguished. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same self-destructive pattern- a virus. Human beings are a pernicious disease- a metastasizing cancer of the Earth. You are a plague and we are the cure.~~The Matrix

  64. ulvfugl Says:

    The first rule of the pending Japan’s Special Secrets Bill is that what will be a secret is secret.
    The second rule is that anyone who leaks a secret and a reporter who writes it up can face up to ten years in jail.
    The third rule is that there are no rules at to what government agency can declare state secrets and no checks on them to determine they don’t misuse the privilege; even of no longer existent agencies may have the power to declare their information secret.
    The fourth rule is that anything pertaining to nuclear energy is of course a state secret so there will not longer be any problem with nuclear power in this country because we won’t know anything about it. And what we don’t know can’t hurt us.
    The right to know has now been officially superseded by the right of the government to make sure you don’t know what they don’t want you to know.
    Legal experts note that even asking pointed questions about a state secret, whether you know or don’t know it’s a secret, could be treated as “instigating leaks” and the result in an arrest and a possible jail term up to five years. Of course, the trial would be complicated since the judge would not be allowed to know what secret the accused was suspected of trying to obtain.

    http://www.japansubculture.com/japans-secrecy-bill-designed-by-kafka-inspired-by-hitler/

  65. Reverse Engineer Says:

    Actually, I think bacteria or yeast are a better analogy than a virus. In either case though, the infection is on the surface, and a mechanism for transferring said infection to the core is not apparent.

    Also regardless of the precise distribution here of causes, it is pretty clear Homo Sapiens has made a mess of the planet. When we got on this road with the discovery of metallurgy and agriculture, nobody really understood what the long term consequences would be. By the time we did understand it (at least some of us), it was long since too late to make much dent in what is basically a juggernaut in action. Guy thinks he “failed” in his mission, but it was Mission Impossible. Like one man trying to stop an Avalanche, you can’t do it.

    It has to run its course, and there has to be a significant die off. It is not clear there has to be extinction, at least in the near term anyhow. Eventually of course, extinction is guaranteed so the outcome doesn’t change here, only the timeline.

    RE

  66. buz painter Says:

    @ mike/grant- Now I’m confused, (not really).

    I often complain to my wife that I don’t trust anyone who doesn’t laugh at my jokes. To which she answers: You must get very lonely since your jokes aren’t funny.

    We do the best we can only being able to connect via the aether, as it were. Trust me guys is isn’t any better when I am face to face. Perhaps when one has an immanent appointment with the gallows, gallows humor is appropriate.

    In any case, I have felt the general stress level rising for quite some time. This afternoon while standing in the produce aisle an old guy, unbidden, began to rant about the government to me. He didn’t even say hello first. It could have been me, except for the fact that I have begun censoring myself a bit of late.

    Whatever… I have hung around here long enough to know that it is at times like having the guy next to you stomp on your foot and you calling him a son-of-a-bitch, then give him a hug.

    Optimists do tend to drive me crazy.

  67. Wren Says:

    @ B9k9 “I can’t be the only doomer who has figured out how to front-run the decline.”
    OK, I’m intrigued…. please tell us how to front-run the decline. I had a friend who talked about writing a book called “How to Cash in on Global Warming”… were you able to find a copy?

    @ Grant – +1 on your clown makeup comment. Maybe we can form our own ‘insane clown posse’.

    @ logspirit
    Thank you for your poignant portrait of life without a home. You are on the cutting edge of the cutting edge. Best wishes and keep posting.

    Notes from Happy Hour:
    Finally “India Grants Personhood to Dolphins”. No dolphin in India will be held captive against its will.

    http://english.pravda.ru/science/earth/05-08-2013/125310-dolphins_india-0/

    “India thus takes an important first step in establishing a universal code of animal ethics and rights. The heroine in this ruling is Puja Mitra, a leading Indian animal rights activist, whose research drive focused on, and introduced, the concept of non-human persons. Other countries to have banned the use of cetaceans for entertainment are Costa Rica, Hungary and Chile.”

    Somehow, I grew up assuming personhood for all animals and insects, giving them the same regard (or lack of it, depending on your take) as humans. This includes calling each one ‘he’ or ‘she’ and never ‘it’, even when my take on gender was a wild guess.

  68. mike k Says:

    RE – “All that really matters is that you live according to good principles and do the best you can no matter what the difficulties are you face, or what the odds are either.” Amen. I wouldn’t mind having that on my tombstone. It says so neatly what I have felt about the whole fate of the Earth thing, and everything else about this challenging life that we are “thrown into” (Heidegger). I cannot count the number of times I have hated mankind and thrown in the towel on trying to help. Only in my later years have I been able to forgive all of us, and God, and Nature for this wild adventure of trying to ride the bucking bronco of intelligence knowing too much too soon for its own good.

    I have been in the place that B9K9 expresses, “But let’s try to be Good Men.” Why? What’s the point? What does ‘good’ mean anyway?

    Thanks to my inner growth, I am no longer capable of those bitter and dismissive words. Truth, Love, Beauty, and The Good prevent me now from such thinking. I try never to freeze anyone in my mind. After all, I grew beyond my bitter despair, maybe B9K9 will do so… (I know that last from me will go down like burning acid for B9K9, I can only assure him that no harm was intended, I wish him only the best whether he changes his views or not.)

  69. Apneaman Says:

    RE: logspirit

    What you are seeing is American foreign policy come home to roost. Now we can understand the anger of all those brown people we have watched on “The News” for decades screaming “Death to America” and burning the flag.

    I fear it’s only going to get worse. It is my guess that the corporate powers will offer to pay off the debts of bankrupt cities, towns, counties and states in exchange for “structural reforms”. AKA privatization of pretty much everything. For all the details on how this works read Naomi Klein’s “The Shock Doctrine” and “Confessions of an economic hit-man” by John Perkins.

  70. ulvfugl Says:

    @ Apneaman

    My own thoughts exactly. And then they militarise the domestic police and treat their own country the same way they treated others.

    Isn’t it the case that Monsanto bought these, and Bill Gates is major investor in Monsanto ?

    Employees of the US military contracting group Academi (formerly Xe, Blackwater USA and Blackwater Worldwide) are seen in new leaked video shooting their machine guns at random while driving through the streets of Baghdad, crashing into other cars and even running over a pedestrian without hesitation. Academi received a $250 million contract by the Obama administration to provide military services in Afghanistan.

    http://www.minds.com/blog/view/49692/video-shows-us-contractors-killing-civilians

  71. Bailey Says:

    Hi folks. Yes, I must confess that considering I have previously gone ballistic at others inability to understand or care, I quickly remember my inability to understand that they will never understand. Therefore, when now relating to the 99% that cannot understand, I now picture my cat as the audience. Does wonders for the blood pressure (well, not always).

  72. Robin Datta Says:

    Had to disturb the spiders and other vermin that had taken up residence in the case by booting up the PC after many months because I forgot the passcode to the iPad just out of the box and it got disabled after too many attempts and had to be erased and reset to factory defaults via iTunes (which had to be downloaded & installed on the PC).

    Windows offered to install Internet Explorer 11 (on Windows 7) to which I agreed.

    The good thing about Internet Explorer 11 is that in its settings there is an option where it offers to prompt before accepting cookies, and the dialog box for each prompt offers an option to remember the choice (accept of reject) for all future cookies from each website. For those who use Windoze 7 or later, Internet Explorer 11 may now help with the cookie problem.

  73. wildwoman Says:

    Lady Die, sorry about the former friend. We’ve all been there.

    logspirit, yes.

    RE, is it possible that, to an engineer, everything looks like an engineering problem? I don’t mean this quite as meanly as it could be taken, but you remind me a bit of Rex Tillerson, CEO of Exxon/Mobil, who regards climate change as an engineering problem.

    To all, Chris Hedges has a new talk out called “The Myth of Human Progress and the Collapse of Complex Societies” and it sure sounds like he’s there…..the beginning of the speech is all about the dying planet. He uses the word extinction.

    He goes on to talk about how resistance is more necessary than ever, because to revolt is what makes us human.

    Okay, I know this is one of those areas that gets murky. Some insist on defining resistance as, you know, picking up the gun or sabotaging an oil field. Yes, good ideas, but not the only ways to go. I dunno, I think Grant’s idea of making quacking noises when you hear stupid lies ain’t all bad.

    Resistance is a spectrum. Quacking at least calls attention to the lies.

    Hedges ties art into resistance as well. He talks about how hard it is to admit where we are and where we’re going. But he said, fascism has to be confronted.

    “I don’t fight fascists because I think I will win. I fight fascists because they are fascists.”

    Don’t know if this can be found on youtube or not, but he gave the speech in Oct of 2013.

    Hedges is so interesting because we’ve watched his progression, his journey. He appeals to different people than say, Derrick Jensen (my personal guide) or Guy but all three are saying the same thing….it’s over and now we’ve got to figure out how to live with our deaths.

  74. Kirk Hamilton Says:

    Thanks wildwoman. Here’s the link to the Hedges speech, mentioned above. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNT3_qugjZU

  75. Gerald Spezio Says:

    ulvfugl says, “Employees of the US military contracting group Academi (formerly Xe, Blackwater USA and Blackwater Worldwide) are seen in new leaked video shooting their machine guns at random while driving through the streets of Baghdad, crashing into other cars and even running over a pedestrian without hesitation.”

    Just what Israel ordered, right?

    The well paid Goyim thugs are working for Zionism & the Oded Yinon Plan.

  76. 18000days Says:

    B9K9, You might agree with (or improve upon) the cynical formulation that: “A ‘good man’ is one who can distance himself from the amount of intra/inter-species violence necessary on his behalf to keep him metabolising, and doing ‘good’.” I don’t have the necessary cultural conditioning to pull off a baseball analogy, but extending ethics/morality beyond humans is certainly what someone with my cultural conditioning could call a ‘sticky wicket’.

    I’d be interested to know what you think of Grant Schreiber’s second paragraph, Dec.4th, 9.22pm. My guess is that you don’t even disagree, but that you, unlike some others, are too astute to confuse flying with falling. Unlike you, I can’t see any particular appeal or merit in being the last organism on the planet with a beating heart and functioning nervous system- I guess I’m just not competitive. We all know what ‘competitive’ means: Exploiting an anything but level playing field to use up the maximum amount of resources and energy possible in the shortest amount of time, and fuck all the people who aren’t ‘competitive’ enough to prevent themselves being exploited and expendable in that ‘competition’, which turns out to include just about all of us, in some degree, until there is just one winner, who becomes one loser in short order. Great game… you win!- along with your cargo of patently superior DNA. So what?

  77. Kirk Hamilton Says:

    This interview from C-SPAN is a good introduction to Chris Hedges, who he is, what makes him tick and why. I find this interview so interesting that I’ve watched it more than once. I feel pride in knowing that I am on the ‘same side’ as such a brave and compassionate man. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r72qm2FE2Y0

  78. Gerald Spezio Says:

    The image did not copy & reproduce.

    BOOMER, DOOMER …

    Thursday, December 5, 2013

    The time has come to spread the message
    [ click on image to enlarge ]

    Above image shows methane rising from the seafloor of the Arctic Ocean on December 3, 2013, and entering the atmosphere, reaching levels as high as 2425 parts per billion (ppb). Last month, on November 9, 2013, methane reached levels as high as 2662 ppb.

    http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-time-has-come-to-spread-the-message.html#comment-form

  79. Grant Schreiber Says:

    Buz Painter says “Optimists do tend to drive me crazy.”

    And is there anything more annoying than the “Don’t Worry, Be Happy” bumper sticker advice so cheerfully given out on an hourly basis?
    But this is really saying “Please don’t bother me with your woes.”

    At the same token, laugh out loud on a bus or train and watch the people turn to see if you are laughing at them instead of the book you’re reading. No one really wants happy people around them either.

    Is the glass half empty then? I don’t care. Not thirsty, and if I was I wouldn’t drink whatever the hell is in that glass anyway.

    Wildwoman: thanks for the tip on Hedges and that great quote: “I don’t fight fascists because I think I will win. I fight fascists because they are fascists.”

    I’ve gone from angry young man to bitter old crank over the last 33 years of the Reagan administration and really the best I can do is make barnyard animal noises. I refuse to take this seriously anymore. The joke may not be terribly funny, but it is certainly on us.

  80. Gerald Spezio Says:

    THE IK – A CULTURE WHERE MORALITY DISAPPEARED.

    In THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE anthropologist COLIN TURNBULL shows in detail how survival becomes a personal affair. Food is no longer shared. Men hunt what they can and eat it far from the village and women collect only for themselves.

    As starvation sets in children and old people die as they are not fed, the tribe becomes known for its cattle thieving among the neighbouring groups. The thieving becomes intense among themselves and Turnbull interestingly shows how this becomes the new norm. Honesty becomes foolishness and lying becomes an art with Turnbull as the main target ( he had a Land Rover, cigarettes and plenty of food ).

    http://www1.dragonet.es/users/markbcki/trnbll.htm

  81. Badlands Says:

    @Grant, there you go being funny again!! I am in total alignment with your diagnosis-jokes on us, but what a terrible joke it is. What makes it even funnier is that the perpetrators take themselves so seriously and so just can’t quite sell the goods- sort of the difference between Michael Jordan and LeBron James- Jordan being far superior because along with his skills, he didn’t take himself so seriously, basketball being a game, and all. But LeBron does take himself seriously, too seriously, and when I see that kind of attitude, I can’t help but laugh. Not buying it. How’s that for a terrible baseball analogy? Can you tell I don’t care much for pro-sports? Quack-quack. Moo.

    @logspirit Thank you for sharing your situation. This pisses me off more than anything else (besides child abuse)- just the sickening inequality. As long as there are haves and have-nots, I don’t think anything can really be healed. And the moral superiority the haves take on- well, I had a recent dust-up with a sibling over it, she being younger and not having gone through the hard times the rest of us did. It’s easy to be judgmental if you’ve never gone cold or hungry. Glad you live somewhere somewhat temperate, because baby, it is COLD out there!! Just curious, do you do e-mail or have a mailing address?

    @Christy Did you happen to get my e-mail earlier this week? Let me know, because I’m not sure I put the right address, I was away from home. Will give a more serious report on our recent trip to ‘the farm’ later. In a nutshell- nothin’ is movin’ out there…

    @ulvfugl Thought you might like this- an interesting little synopsis on why science and philosophy need each other:

    http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/2013/04/30/dorion-sagan-cosmic-apprentice/

  82. ulvfugl Says:

    @ Gerald Spezio

    I am fast losing confidence in your ability to make any objective evaluation of anything. Your remarks re the Holocaust were not exactly impressive and now you bring up Turnbull and the Ik.

    Perhaps you’d like to do a bit of digging and you’ll find that there is more to that story. Many people have stated that Turnbull’s account is not factual or reliable and I am inclined to believe them.

  83. ulvfugl Says:

    Thanks, Badlands. Hope things are going well for you.

    Mr Schreiber will enjoy this.

    I clicked on a link that said it was about philosophy and was Socrates right about the unexamined life, and thought vaguely, that’ll suit Guy and his quest for wisdom, and What is The Good, etc… and what do I find ? The absolutely contemporary dilemma that we here all find so very harrowing…

    Question: I’m feeling swamped by social media. Should I drop my Facebook account, Google+ or Twitter?

    and an inspired reply

    Arthur Schopenhauer replies: “There is in the world only the choice between loneliness and vulgarity.”

    http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/unthinkable-was-socrates-right-about-the-unexamined-life-1.1602764

    Tough choices…

  84. Reverse Engineer Says:

    Since Guy let the Cat Out of the Bag, I will let you Uber Doomers know we have mirrored NBL and the problems you currently see here are resolved.

    However, there is a LOT of data to move and this has to be done in batches. The Database Cavalry from California is currently working on this. We have also added functionality to improve the Doom Discussion format and add flexibility. We cannot make all the links though until all the data is moved.

    After we get it hooked up, I will test it from the user end, then run Guy through how the thing works so he can Admin it.

    We have our own stuff going on also, so timeline looking at about 2 weeks for a migration if Guy is happy with the setup.

    Be patient. With luck we will not go Extinct before NBL is running smooth and perky here for the remaining time left before the Internet Goes Extinct, which will predate the rest of it by a long shot. :)

    RE

  85. Reverse Engineer Says:

    “RE, is it possible that, to an engineer, everything looks like an engineering problem? I don’t mean this quite as meanly as it could be taken, but you remind me a bit of Rex Tillerson, CEO of Exxon/Mobil, who regards climate change as an engineering problem. “-WW

    Perhaps, but since I am not an Engineer, I can’t be certain what things look like to them. :)

    “Reverse Engineer” is a nom de plume I took on when I was writing on the PeakOil.com Forum. It came AFTER I was Banned as “Rogue Economist”. ;) I’m not an Economist either. LOL. I am cross disciplinary, looking at History, Economics, Energy & Anthropology as these areas pertain to Collapse Dynamics.

    Since you probably have not read most of my material, I would ask you to hold off making judgements about what I think and how I think about this problem.

    Tomorrow I will be publishing a kickoff piece for the SUN Project, which I will ask Guy to publish here on NBL as well.

    I think you will get a little bit different perspective on where I am coming from.

    RE

  86. ulvfugl Says:

    The big seed companies are carefully watching state legislatures, spending tens of millions of dollars to defeat proposed labeling laws and fielding calls from food companies concerned with how such laws could impact production agriculture. “If such laws create a demand at the farmer level, we’ll have to respond,” Pioneer’s Jones says, cautiously. “But we won’t lead the charge.” Chuck Hill, specialty products manager at AgriGold Hybrids, which sells both GMOs and hybrids, sounds a similarly wary note: “Whole Foods’ decision to label was not an earthshaker,” he insists. “The company was already serving that clientele. Now, if Walmart decided to label GM food, that would be a major chit.”

    http://modernfarmer.com/2013/12/post-gmo-economy/

  87. Reverse Engineer Says:

    “Reverse Engineer, as far as I’m aware, there have been no major eruptions for two decades. What causes warming is an energy imbalance, which is known to a fairly precise level (0.58 W/m2, IIRC). That imbalance is caused by greenhouse gases in the atmosphere increasing. In order to get back to balance, the atmosphere has to warm. There is no need for the interior of the planet to warm, to account for climate change.”-Tony

    Volcanic Eruptions are only one part of the geotectonic story Tony.

    While obviously no Super Volcano like Toba has blown off here (we would not be chatting on the net if one had) However, FREQUENCY of eruptions is rising rapidly. Unfortunately right now I cannot embed graphs here (that will change once we get NBL spiffed up :) ), but go look at this graph as one to see what is occurring here:

    http://redhawk500.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/volcanochart.gif

    The charts from dlinquist are even more telling in terms of total energy release. You’ll find those in my articles on Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory, I linked them earlier.

    You can get a warming effect from strictly atmospheric causes, I am not denying that. I am trying to bring home the fact that this is not a strictly atmospheric only phenomenon we are dealing with here.

    Geotectonics are SIGNIFICANTLY more active now than they were 20 years ago, by an ORDER OF MAGNITUDE. TREMENDOUS energy release going on here daily, and NOT accounted for in the Climate Models insofar as I am aware.

    Everybody KNOWS the Earth goes through cycles. In the PETM, CO2 in the atmosphere EXCEEDED current amount, and this is with NO INDUSTRIALIZATION. Far as we no, dinosaurs did not have cars or factories.

    What causes the cycles? Why did atmospheric CO2 rise so high during the PETM? Was there a Geotectonic component then? If so, how did it create the effect, and why did it STOP and reverse itself?

    Until you can aswer these questions authoritatively, you cannot make an informed prediction on where this one is going.

    RE

  88. Grant Schreiber Says:

    Ulvfugl: thanks for the link and the quote.

    I also like Sartre: “If you are lonely when you’re alone, you are in bad company”

    Observing people with their portable distraction devices over the years I have come to the conclusion the whole point to the iPod and all the various things like it is to keep people from being trapped however briefly from having to be alone with their thoughts.

    Recently saw an ad about a handheld thing that allowed a person to watch tv or movies wherever they were. During the voice over, they showed a man greatly enjoying something while on an escalator.

    Imagine the pit of despair and horror this fine American would have fallen into in that twenty second escalator ride without some device to keep him entertained. Huxley had Soma. Orwell had Big Brother. Bradbury had Firemen. We have smart phones. The result is the same. An isolated, numbed citizenry that is unable to escape their oppression because they are seeped so deeply in it and take such great pains not to notice.

  89. Tom Says:

    Yee-ha!

  90. ulvfugl Says:

    @ Grant

    Observing people with their portable distraction devices over the years I have come to the conclusion the whole point to the iPod and all the various things like it is to keep people from being trapped however briefly from having to be alone with their thoughts.

    This is why I hold you in such affectionate regard, Grant, your childlike innocence, incapable of ever fathoming the deep malice and devilish depravity of those who are preoccupied by Machiavellian designs far more sinister than merely distracting the thoughts of the thoughtless… I tried to add the little gem below to the collection I had gathered on an earlier defunct thread, but it evaporated en route. It sort of followed on from my thoughts at the end of this comment

    http://guymcpherson.com/2013/11/its-movie-season/#comment-112421

    Scary. Insane. Ridiculous. Invasive. Wrong. The Washington Post reports that the FBI has had the ability to secretly activate a computer’s camera “without triggering the light that lets users know it is recording” for years now. What in the hell is going on? What kind of world do we live in?

    http://gizmodo.com/fbi-can-secretly-activate-laptop-cameras-without-the-in-1478371370/

    So, remember, Grant, as you potter around arranging the flowers and chewing a raw onion, those bastards are watching your every move, and recording it in Utah, Grant, and in years to come, at some undefined future date, you may well be held accountable, they’ll be asking you about your questionable headware and that portrait of Lisa Minella with the plastic thing that looks like an eagle’s beak and what were you doing with your head inside that garbage bin, for at LEAST four minutes ? They’ll be expecting answers, Grant.. Remember, I’m your friend, that’s why I’m telling you all this, you know, in the unbearable sadness of the valleys, my life is very happy and easy, but I worry about you city folk…

  91. Tony Says:

    Reverse Engineer,

    I’m not sure what you mean by authoritatively but climate scientist think that the huge carbon fluxes came from melting permafrost and destabilising hydrates. There is plenty of carbon in both and both are probably fully recharged.

    Foster and Rahmstorf did take volcano activity into account, in 2011, in a paper that accounted for variable factors to tease out the underlying warming trend and ended up with no change in the trend, in recent years. Other studies have shown that oceans have taken up more heat in the last decade. Thus the slowdown in surface warming appears to have been accounted for. If volcanoes are pouring increasing amounts of energy into the surface, wouldn’t that have shown up over the last 15 years, as surface warming?

    I don’t dispute that vulcanism seems to have increased (though I don’t think your chart shows that very well, with only two outlying years and only up to 2009) but what I’m saying is that climate research seems to be accounting for climate change without the need for additional energy input. Also, I’ve read something about warming could increase volcanic activity, though I don’t recall the details. Plus, fracking increases volcanic activity.

    So I’m not sure there is any need for more explanations than human behaviour. Not that there couldn’t be even more cause for concern of course and I look forward to reading more about your ideas.

  92. logspirit Says:

    @ Kirk Hamilton
    Thank you for expressing your appreciation for the Pope’s statement. Perhaps such inspiration will elicit a degree of compassion for the victims of unbridled callous greed. Perhaps it will shine a ray of light into the dark lies and delusions of industrial civilization. What seems most strange is that the benefits of generosity are generally vapidly opaque, unperceived, when they should be intensely obvious. Sociopathic blindness is a factor of isolation from life – which is a misery as well, a maddening, punishing, extreme, unyielding echoing loneliness, devoid of love and warmth and natural connection… which also needs deep compassion to heal. The psychological torment in the pit of callous perspective does not foster a desire for long term survival. There is no happiness or reward in a condition of emotional starvation… regardless of how much money a person piles up. As our time vanishes, the only worthwhile currency is compassion.

  93. the virgin terry Says:

    ‘I often complain to my wife that I don’t trust anyone who doesn’t laugh at my jokes. To which she answers: You must get very lonely since your jokes aren’t funny.’

    that was funny, buz p.

    ‘belligerent primates who ungainly strut about with the conspicuous conceit of believing they are sapient.’

    excellent point, logspirit. it never occurred to me before how totally inappropriate the term ‘homo sapiens’ is. i don’t think i’d ever fully understood the precise definition of ‘sapient’ until i just checked it out. we’re most definitely not a wise species.

    which goes back to b9k9′s continuing insistence that tptb are well aware of the matters frequently discussed here, and are looking at riding the wave of destruction on top to the bitter end, and then somehow exempting themselves from our (likely) common fate. i suggest (s)he fails to appreciate nature’s power to humble and turn against us, or the incredible stupidity of ‘homo sapiens’ in effectively hastening our own extinction by behaving no smarter than yeast, misled by tptb.

    logspirit, are u unable to obtain any sort of government assistance, or is it against your principle to deal with the government and it’s bureaucracies? are u old enough/ eligible to collect at least a modest social security payment? perhaps apply for subsidized housing?

  94. ulvfugl Says:

    @ Grant

    Well, you can’t say I didn’t warn you, can you. But I should have known better than to waste my words. I do recall trying to urge you to seek shelter and to abandon that awful place before, when you were beset by hundreds of monster freak tornadoes, and all you could do to justify your remaining in such grievous peril was to insist that you had to go to the dentist.

    Methinks you are too stubborn for your own good. If it was me, I’d have packed a meal and be heading north. Or south. You know, watching the patterns of the birds in the sky, auguries, that sort of thing. But I know you will not listen. Stubborn, you are, and stubborn you’ll always be, no doubt about it.

    But don’t pick up any wandering tomcats, whatever else you may do. You see, one thing leads to another thing. Cause and effect. Inexorable. You can’t even do a hungry cat a good turn without getting killed.

    ..became so ill he was unable to go into the office. Doctors diagnosed him with an infection of streptococcus. Hadden believed he had contracted the illness by picking up a wandering tomcat and taking it home to feed it. The ungrateful cat attacked and scratched Hadden. Another possibility was that he had been infected when he had a tooth removed. The following month he was taken to Brooklyn Hospital. Doctors now feared that the bacteria had spread through his blood-stream to reach his heart.

    http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAluce.htm

  95. Reverse Engineer Says:

    Tony, I just am not sure what you really need here to grasp that Vulcanism and Geotectonic activity are increasing exponentially.

    Here’s the Vulcanism graph from 1875 to 2004

    http://www.michaelmandeville.com/earthchanges/gallery/a_powerpoint_intro/volcanism_world_1875-2005.gif

    Here’s the Earthquake Frequency Graph through 2007

    http://www.michaelmandeville.com/earthchanges/gallery/Quakes/quakes_world4+_annual_dailyave_1973-2007.gif

    Sorry I cannot Google up current graphs, but the TREND is clear even through mid 2000s. The earth core is cooking up a storm here. My bet is if you could get more current graphs, it is still higher now.

    You don’t think the core is heating up here? If so, you cannot read a qraph.

    This is much more a core heating problem than a surface heating one. For the most part, the climate scientists have ignored it. They are barking up the wrong tree.

    RE

  96. Tony Says:

    Reverse Engineer,

    I didn’t actually deny that volcanic activity appears to be increasing. However, the latest graphs you link to are only suggestive of that. The first claims to be activity for about 50% of volcanoes – what about the other 50%? The second is also for a subset of earthquakes.

    I’ve tried looking for a history of all known volcanic activity but haven’t managed it so far. The Smithsonian has a database stretching back to antiquity but I don’t have time to graph that. We also don’t know what never got reported in the past – remember that there are a lot more people in a lot more places than even the fairly recent past. How does that affect the data? What about undersea volcanoes?

    As I say, anthropogenic GHGs and land use change seems to explain current warming quite well. If you’re saying that the effects of increasing heat generation in the Earth’s interior will come into play later, then that’s a different issue and, as I say, I’ll be interested to see what you have on this matter, particularly the science behind it.

  97. Reverse Engineer Says:

    “I didn’t actually deny that volcanic activity appears to be increasing. However, the latest graphs you link to are only suggestive of that. The first claims to be activity for about 50% of volcanoes – what about the other 50%? The second is also for a subset of earthquakes.”-Tony

    If you can sample 50% of earthquakes, you can be pretty sure the other 50% is doing about the same thing, at least if you have a random sample.

    You’ll also never get any real reliable data on this stuff older than 100 years, the equipment to measure it did not exist and it is all just reconstruction and assumptions made looking at the fossil record.

    The chart I linked is just one subset of quakes yes. To view all subsets, go visit dlindquist’s site. http://research.dlindquist.com/quake/

    Lotta variables here, lotta action also. To say that Anthropogenic causes explain it is putting the cart before the horse, IMHO. Homo Sapiens is likely exacerbating the problems we have, but is unlikely to be responsible for the earth emitting an order of magnitude more energy each day now than it did 30 years ago.

    RE

  98. Grant Schreiber Says:

    Ulvfugl: the fix is in. Currently hovering around 20 degrees with a fair amount of snow on the ground and the delightful sound of snow blowers to protect people’s cars from the elements. After we’re gone and if some alien race ventures down before the cities topple over, they will see a society slavish in its devotion to the most advanced form of life the earth could offer: the automobile. Cars are treated better than children and more regulated than guns. The whole point of the oil wars to keep cars moving. They have won.

    Stray cats notwithstanding, brain eating amoebas are now in Minnesota, so stay out of the water. Some sort of super roach is in New York City to go along with the bedbugs.

    But the cars roll on.

  99. ulvfugl Says:

    Update on The Economic Hitman, John Perkins


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