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THE BRISBANE INSTITUTE IS A BRISBANE PROSTITUTE: A paid mouthpiece of mining and fossil fuel interests

Wed, Dec 25, 2013

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by Geoffrey Chia

“In the best tradition of Merlin (who was said to have lived his life backwards in Le Morte d’Arthur), Geoffrey Chia’s articles are being posted in backward chronology. Here is an old lengthy rant written in December 2011, before his various epiphanies in 2012 when he finally realised there was probably no future for humanity and definitely no hope for civilisation, even if all emissions ceased immediately. Hence his mistaken comment at the end of the essay that humanity would not go extinct, now realised to be incorrect. His rage and anger throughout the essay are palpable, written at a time when he thought there was still hope.

He posted his “Brisbane Prostitute” essay to Rachel Nolan, the State Minister for Transport and one of the sponsors of the Brisbane Institute, who forwarded it to the board. From 2012 The Brisbane Institute ceased convening open public meetings and organised meetings only with the corporate establishment. In September 2013 they disbanded, one month before D3SJ had their final meeting.”

Full pdf: The Brisbane Institute is a Brisbane Prostitute

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McPherson’s initial essay for The Next Step was posted 22 December 2013 and is linked here.

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McPherson’s 22 December 2013 radio interview on the Lifeboat Hour with Michael C. Ruppert is posted here, permalinked at Seemorerocks and embedded below


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The Next Step: Living Courageously in a World of Transition, a 14-day seminar, 12-25 March 2014, Izabal, Guatemala, Central America.

The Next Step: Living Courageously in a World of Transition, a 7-day seminar, 24-31 May 2014, Moho Creek, Belize, Central America.

The Next Step: Living Courageously in a World of Transition, a 14-day seminar, 12-25 June 2014, Izabal, Guatemala, Central America.

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126 Responses to “THE BRISBANE INSTITUTE IS A BRISBANE PROSTITUTE: A paid mouthpiece of mining and fossil fuel interests”

  1. The Overthinker Says:

    I remember meeting Geoffrey Chia in August last year at lunch with Richard Heinberg when he was in Brisbane. Not all of us were shellshocked by what Heinberg had to say, as many of us were all too familiar with it already, but some folks were clearly challenged by the idea of what we’re up against. I’m impressed to see how far Geoffrey’s thinking has evolved even since then, although I do disagree on one major point: human nature is not inherently flawed. We may be unable to get off the trajectory we’re on before it’s too late (it seems that it already is too late), but I think this stems more from our inertia as a giant population with deeply entrenched erroneous worldviews than it does any flawed nature.

  2. dairymandave Says:

    test

  3. Blennylips Says:

    So Guy, I’m practicing my google-fu on this post and I start with:

    https://www.google.com/webhp?tbs=li:1#q=intext%3A%22The+Brisbane+Institute+is+a+Brisbane+Prostitute%22&tbs=li:1

    first result:

    Lewis Carroll described his epic poem “The Hunting of the Snark” as an “agony in eight fits”. I wrote my own “agony in ten pages” earlier this year, an essay I titled “The Brisbane Institute is a Brisbane Prostitute”. I described my dismay as to how the supposedly honourable Brisbane Institute had become a paid mouthpiece for the fossil fuel lobby, highlighting the views of Christopher Monckton and Ian Plimer. They also imported a morbidly obese fossil fuel professor named Michael Economides to lecture us on how wonderfully beneficial unrestrained overconsumption was for us and how terrifically great the coal seam gas industry was, with no adverse effects whatsoever. In my essay I of course apologised to any prostitutes who may have been offended by the comparison with that reprehensible Brisbane Institute.

    Anyone else bothered that google dropped the interface for an RSS feed of news search results?.

    https://news.google.com/news?q=“Michael J. Economides”&output=rss
    https://news.google.com/news?q=“Michael J. Economides”

    Michael Economides, International Energy Expert, Dead at 64
    Energy Tribune-Dec 2, 2013
    Michael J. Economides, an international authority on petroleum engineering, died late Saturday evening while onboard a jetliner bound for …
    Michael Economides, International Energy Expert, Dead at 64

    Restrict the dates to older than 10 Dec 2013 and we see that the “Energy Tribune” released PR pieces on the second, ninth, and tenth, with no other results in that time.

    This time click on the tiny typefaced “Daily Mail” under the profile photo for the 2 Dec result, and find yourself on http://www.dailymail.co.uk with this glorious headline:

    Hydro-fracking advocate, a world-renowned college professor, dies of a heart attack during cross-Atlantic flight

    I think I’d better bring in Robert Ludlem to tell us the rest of the story (where is Paul Harvey when you need him?) as

    Your search – “Michael J. Economides” “cause of death” – did not match any news results.

    Suggestions:

    Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
    Try different keywords.
    Try more general keywords.
    Try fewer keywords.

  4. Artleads Says:

    The Overthinker

    I’m with you there.

  5. melissa Says:

    Merry Christmas all…

    Eating and drinking and watching basketball, waiting for all hell to break loose…

  6. kevin moore Says:

    What if the government, the regional/district/city councils are all ‘owned’ by mining and fossil fuel interest, and all prominent ‘leaders’ are psychotic sociopaths?

    Yes, the ‘runaway train’ is gathering speed. The ‘Titanic’ sits lower in the water. But people in ‘developed’ nations are not suffering enough yet.

  7. Christy Says:

    testing

  8. ulvfugl Says:

    Joe Romm, who thinks ’2 deg C is probably manageable’

    http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/12/24/3098991/ghost-climate-change/

    One good comment

    Carbon Negative, Prognosis Negative.
    - Lion populations down 90% in 20 years.
    - Half of all vertebrate species may disappear before 2040.
    - 200 species per day are going extinct.
    - Land Animal populations down 28% since 1970.
    - Marine Bird populations down 30% since 1995.
    - Big Ocean Fish populations down 90% since 1950.
    - Fresh Water Fish populations down 50% since 1987,
    - All Marine Animal populations down 28% since 1970.
    - Plankton populations down 40% since 1950.
    - Bumblebee populations down 70% since 1970.
    - Species extinction is 1,000 times faster than normal.
    - Human sperm counts down 50% since 1950.
    - Human population up to 9 billion by 2050.
    - Ocean acidification to double by 2050.
    :
    We don’t have enough resources in the world to make solar-wind power for 7 billion people.
    The pulse of carbon and toxic metals would put us over the edge.
    Climate change is only one of six reasons for inevitable mass extinction of life on earth.
    So, don’t worry about sea level rise and temperature rise because we will be toast well before that. We are at the apex of civilization. In a couple of generations, we will be in the death throes of a dying planet. The transition will not be smooth. It will be chaotic and violent. This is why resilience communities will be unsustainable against the upcoming and oncoming hordes.

  9. Christy Says:

    I have tried to post something in response to Guys’ post three times, and it is not showing up…. maybe it will later. I will try to post it on the Mitigation Complete thread and see if that works. I seems to have more luck with that one.

  10. Christy Says:

    Did not work there, either.

  11. cuntagious Says:

    ulvfugl, that comment made my day! As Robert Callaghan points out, *everything* is tracking in the wrong direction. But up to this point change has been slow (and apparently mild) enough to allow the majority of to folks to either not notice or cling to hopium. But runaway climate change will take care of that, and soon.

    If only human sperm counts could drop to zero, a lot of suffering could be spared. But I doubt our we’ll be that lucky.

  12. mike k Says:

    It has taken me the best part of the last two years to realize that none of my ideas and insights have the slightest chance of being adopted or altering the planetary extinction in progress. I spent so many years hoping and dreaming that we would somehow turn away from our fatal path, and those hopes gained such momentum within me, that it has been hard to turn them off, in spite of now realizing their futility. I also now realize I have no duty, and it serves no purpose to try to share my “awakening” to our collective doom with anyone who does not already see it themselves. I guess I am here at NBL because there are others here who are navigating the dark waters of their own awakenings. There is some strange comfort in that. At least I am not the only one to see what is coming, and that I am powerless to stop it. I learn from others who are finding how to make their peace to some degree with this awful knowledge.

  13. Mr BelleIslander Says:

    mike k, SAID: I guess I am here at NBL because there are others here who are navigating the dark waters of their own awakenings. There is some strange comfort in that. At least I am not the only one to see what is coming, and that I am powerless to stop it. I learn from others who are finding how to make their peace to some degree with this awful knowledge.

    EXACTLY! So what’s next?

  14. ulvfugl Says:

    @ cuntagious

    Yes, you read that list – to which a great many more could EASILY be added, I mean, it could easily fill this whole web page and many more ! add on Guy’s Climate Summary – and Bob Dylan’s line comes to mind, ‘You don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows..’

    It’s so effing obvious what the trend is and where this is all heading, and yet over on Real Clomate we have the famous scientist, the climate modeller Gavin Schmidt stating :

    Both Semiletov and McPherson are over-confident in their statements and for which they provide no convincing evidence.

    http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2013/12/agu-talk-on-science-and-advocacy/comment-page-2/#comment-437959

    I suppose if you really do not want to be convinced then nothing is going to convince you.

    Seems to me, it’s exactly parallel to denial as seen with drug addiction and alcoholism. People will insist they don’t have any problem until they finally hit rock bottom.

    I’ve known quite a lot of those guys. I walked into a bar once, and there was one I knew very well, highly intelligent, with a degree in English Literature from Oxford. So I bought a drink and leaned on the bar beside him and asked how he was, and he replied that he was really well because he had stopped drinking. So I asked about the drink in his hand… ‘Yes, but it’s the last one’ Of course, a couple of hours later he was completely out of his skull as usual..

    Seems to me, all Guy is doing is making connections that lead to very obvious conclusions. You have to be able to see the pattern. If you don’t look, you don’t see it. Schmidt and most other scientists don’t see, because they don’t look. They are typically reductionist, focussed on parts, not wholes.

    This is a problem. You have to stand back a bit to see the panoramic view. If you zoom in too close, you never see it.

    As Christy mentioned, it’s the shifting baseline problem. People have never seen what the old flower meadows looked like, full of butterflies and insects, so they have no idea what they have lost. The barren sterile fields they have now are ‘normal’, just as the traffic noise and the planes over head are ‘normal’.

    Probably, as the radiation spreads, it’ll just be ‘normal’ for babies to be born with all kinds of horrible defects. Nobody will be shocked.

  15. mike k Says:

    Belle Islander – “What’s next?” For me, trying to be a better person, helpful to others – minus some useless baggage I have carried for years, about saving the planet. But that’s my answer, for now. You need to find your own answer…

  16. cuntagious Says:

    @mike k, I’m right there with you. I too thought that if only enough people could be made of the situation (figuring humans are rational actors… LOL), we’d come together and collectively make the difficult choices necessary to live sustainably. I especially believed this in the 70′s — when I was a child and the environmental movement was in full flight — but also held this conviction into adulthood the late 80′s and the 90′s. But the last dozen years have put the wooden stake into the heart of that notion. All that remains is to enjoy what we have while it still exists, and act in ways that lesson current and future suffering.

    @ulvfugl, your anecdote reminded me of great truism regarding the alcoholic: “one drink is too much and a hundred not enough.”

  17. cuntagious Says:

    Dammit! I pushed the send button too soon! I meant to say: “I too thought that if only enough people could be made aware of the situation…..”

  18. mt Says:

    It is amusing, well, and sad. I sit here after reading of these fools that talk about us(humans)surviving 1c, 2c, 3c, 4c and now 4.5c Does anyone else notice how our tolerance continues to grow

  19. RE Says:

    Let’s raise the bar to about 10C and figure out how to make it through the PETM. :)

    Probably would help to be a Tardigrade, maybe we can transfer consciousness into them before we exit?

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-maLxc75ZPN0/TbLLILf2zbI/AAAAAAAAAGI/6BPBqqqyRjM/s1600/Water_bear_in_moss-SPL.jpg

    Tardigrades are classified as extremophiles, organisms that can thrive in a physically or geochemically extreme condition that would be detrimental to most life on Earth.[4][5] For example, tardigrades can withstand temperatures from just above absolute zero to well above the boiling point of water, pressures about six times stronger than pressures found in the deepest ocean trenches, ionizing radiation at doses hundreds of times higher than the lethal dose for a person, and the vacuum of outer space. They can go without food or water for more than 10 years, drying out to the point where they are 3% or less water, only to rehydrate, forage, and reproduce.[6][7][8]

    I am going to get some pet Tardigrades and do a Vulcan Mind Meld every day with them with Hands On the Aquarium. When the temps and the radiation get too tough for my corporeal body to withstand, they will carry on.

    Meanwhile, I’ll keep on keepin’ on figuring out more practical solutions for the near term.

    However, you should ALWAYS have a Plan B. :)

    RE

  20. Christy Says:

    @ RE

    Any idea what happened to my earlier post @ Guy?

  21. Christy Says:

    @RE

    I see it did finally come up on the Mitigation Complete thread, but not here where I tried three times to put it.

  22. Kirk Hamilton Says:

    Merry Christmas to all you Beach Of Doomers! Now that the clathrate gun has fired we can rest assured that THIS is about as good as it gets or will ever get.

  23. RE Says:

    @Christy

    I looked for those posts in the Spam folder, did not find them.

    No idea where they went or why lost.

    DS may be able to shed some light on it.

    RE

  24. Kirk Hamilton Says:

    My advice to anyone who is worried about losing a post is to ‘copy’ it before you try to send it. That way you can easily try again. ;)

  25. Robin Datta Says:

    KMO’s C-Realm podcast:

    394: 2013 Wrap-up

    “In the final installment of the C-Realm Podcast for 2013, KMO talks with Dmitry Orlov, author of The Five Stages of Collapse: Survivor’s Toolkit and Seth Moser-Katz of the Extraenvironmentalist Podcast about the memorable events of the past year, including the near miss with US entry into the Syrian civil war, the on-going degeneration of the US economy, the rise of Bitcoin, and speculations about Google’s long-term intentions in their acquisition of the military robotics company, Boston Dynamics. Interlude skit by Darren T.”

  26. Doomer Support Says:

    @RE

    I see it did finally come up on the Mitigation Complete thread, but not here where I tried three times to put it.

    When you posted that, you were still looking at the “old” hosting service, rather than the new one. It took a few hours for the new “Address” to get to everyone’s computer. I know losing one’s typing can suck, it often doesn’t sound as good when you rewrite from scratch, so I copied the contents of the last few comments that made it through to the “old box” and posted them in the migration thread. Your three were caught in the old spam filters over there, which is why you never saw it, I copied over the last of the three, they looked to be the same.

  27. Artleads Says:

    Kirk Hamilton

    There was not one encouraging thing in that video clip, so why it delighted me attests to the magic of art. Super!

    RE: Mary Daly and men

    “She argued against sexual equality,[20] believing that women ought to govern men;[21] Daly advocated a reversal of sociopolitical power between the sexes.[22]

    In an interview with What Is Enlightenment? magazine, Daly said, “I don’t think about men. I really don’t care about them. I’m concerned with women’s capacities, which have been infinitely diminished under patriarchy. Not that they’ve disappeared, but they’ve been made subliminal. I’m concerned with women enlarging our capacities, actualizing them. So that takes all my energy.”[23]

    Later in the interview, she said, “If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males.”[23]
    —–

    I thank whoever it was that brought up reference to Mary Daly. She’s the only person who has come right out and said what I’ve politely been sugar coating for a long time: men are the problem. If anyone doubts this, take a look at RE’s Orkin Man from a previous thread.

  28. Lidia Says:

    @Artleads, while Daly’s ideas have some amount of merit, good luck surviving in a male-dominated society without male “back- up”.

    It’s too late to reform or redeem human society. Is that not obvious?

    I lived in an urban area with a concentration of Daly followers. They ran a popular restaurant, and when I went there for the first (and last) time, we were hissed at throughout our meal. Reason? A man was in our company. He was gay, but it’s not like that would have make a difference…

  29. Christy Says:

    RE, thanks for looking into that. I am confused though, cause after I tried to post that (the one you found in the spam), and it did not work, I posted a “testing” and it worked, and then I tried the original post again and it didn’t work… I am not doing anything different when it works, as far as I can tell. I will see how it goes.

  30. RE Says:

    “It’s too late to reform or redeem human society. Is that not obvious?”-L

    Not obvious to me.

    http://blogs.attask.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/screen_shot_2011_06_27_at_2_42_58_pm.png

    RE

  31. RE Says:

    It is my Mission From God to counter the Negative Waves here on NBL. :)

    RE

  32. Christy Says:

    @ Lidia

    I have not read Mary’s later writings when she suggests that the planet should have about a 10% male population. She created a fictional account of some kind of plague that killed off most men… I did hear an interview with her when a young woman was questioning the vision, and Mary humorously said something like “One can dream…”

    I am sorry that people who you associate with Mary Daly gave your group a hard time. I don’t think she herself would have done such a thing. As she repeatedly points out, there is horizontal violence between women and oppressed peoples, and unfortunately this aspect of patriarchy infects the feminist movement itself.

  33. RE Says:

    “I thank whoever it was that brought up reference to Mary Daly. She’s the only person who has come right out and said what I’ve politely been sugar coating for a long time: men are the problem. If anyone doubts this, take a look at RE’s Orkin Man from a previous thread.”-L

    This is partially correct. Men are half the problem. The other half of the problem are Women. :)

    RE

  34. Christy Says:

    December 25th, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    @ Guy

    Regarding Malcolm Light’s “The Non-Disclosed Extreme Arctic Methane Threat”
    I was with him until the end:

    “Nuclear power stations must continue to be used and should be converted to the safe thorium energy system until the transition is complete.

    The U.S. has to put itself on a war footing, recall its entire military forces and set them to work on the massive change over to renewable energy that the country needs to undertake, if it wishes to survive the fast approaching catastrophe. The enemy now is Mother Nature who has infinite power at her disposal and intends to take no prisoners in this very short, absolutely brutal, 30 to 40 year war she has begun.”

    Firstly, I don’t know what thorium is, and I will look it up, but nuclear power should not be continued for many reasons, obviously radioactive toxicity being utmost, but also the construction, mining, refining and transporting, etc., processes that lead up to the nuclear fission process apparently use great quantities of fossil fuels.

    Secondly, Mother Earth did not begin a “war”. After that entire essay, repetitively explaining how human manufactured pollution triggered all of these feedbacks, how could he say such a stupid thing? That is like saying: I cut you, and continue to cut you, and now you are purposefully bleeding all over the place. How vengeful of you! What a terrible mess you are making for me! I going to drown in your blood!

    Humanity, the US, does not need to be on “a war footing” with the earth. This is not a war. Often people I expect to be more intelligent are conditioned with these metaphors, and accept them as useful! I am so frequently surprised, I don’t know why I still so often assume people are more aware than they are.

    Humanity needs to get down on its its knees in humility, make amends beginning with with the awareness and sincere regret of our abuse, and work together with the earth. Why is that so difficult to see? We need to work together, same as it has always been.

    Do you think M. Light thinks there is any hope in the technologies he outlines as necessary? Is anyone with any power to make them happen creating these technologies? Seems yo me like using the methane eating bacteria would be the simplest intervention — though who knows what other consequences that could cause. Is there anyone researching or working to apply this?

    Thanks for posting this.

  35. Lidia Says:

    RE, “L” did not write what you just cited, “A” did.

    My own opinion is that, yes, men are more susceptible to ideas of control, grandeur, power, and so forth, but at this late date it’s as useless to harp on this fact as it is to waste one’s time with the democrat/republican “let’s you and him fight” construct. The human race is what it is, and does what it does. We can accept this, or pretend to be ever shocked, surprised, disappointed, outraged and what-have-you.

    There’s a very good segment of a podcast which I hope to transcribe, about predetermination and our predicament. A recent “From Alpha to Omega”,i think it was. When I have a chance:…

  36. Artleads Says:

    “…while Daly’s ideas have some amount of merit, good luck surviving in a male-dominated society without male “back- up”.

    It’s too late to reform or redeem human society. Is that not obvious?”

    While I see no way for women to run the world (although that is further along in Africa, in the midst of patriarchic horrors, than some might think) in time to reform it, what I won’t say is that it is impossible. I don’t make the rules. It’s very unlikely that I will ever know the “final outcome” of the world. I’m already well into my 8th decade.

    Meanwhile, I’m here to do no harm. That means not projecting negativity onto an already hugely negative situation.

    With thousands of nuclear weapons and hundreds of nuke power plants, each day that the planet doesn’t blow up is a mystery. If I were only going to stand outside of life and judge it clinically, I’d have said 50 years ago that we’d all be dead by now. What’s the difference today why I should know for absolute certain that doing our level best can’t keep the planet going longer than the calculated (exterior) observer would suppose? It’s like being asked to swallow poison because there’s certainty that death is imminent, and it’s best to get it over with. Hell no! I won’t go until I’m gone.

    I’d like to see real resistance. As far as I can see, there is NO resistance. People who don’t know how the fuck to resist can’t mount resistance. So, whatever my differences with old RE, I’m all for him and thousands of others improving the means of resistance. It will require all of my three brain cells just to resist as best I can. And I should waste two of them worrying that I might be likely to fail? How can I do two contradictory , mutually exclusive things at the same time? Why should I put the there’s-no-hope spanner in the works when the works are already so difficult without that?

    On the subject of Daly, moving to a world where women lead is very serious and thoughtful business. It isn’t hissing when a man walks into a bar. That’s just silly, and further illustrates the pathetic state of human development, a situation I see as the underlying cause of our predicament. During the height of the Black Power movement, nearly 50 years ago, I did similarly stupid things. It took life beating me thoroughly about the head and shoulders to get past that. It took age. It took cultural anthropology, making me see the big picture.

    Yes, we’re stuck on underdeveloped, as Mike K eloquently explains. Still, the jig isn’t up till the jig is up. And embracing that, and doing one’s best is what A see as living fully while there is life to be live.

    Sorry, Lidia. I’ve taking a lot of punishment on NBL for my views, and I get hot under the collar when no-hope, give-up take the stage. I’m extremely glad to see you back here. I have lots of thoughts on mothers’ hospice. My mom died not too long ago. She suffered more than she should have, but then somehow took herself “out of it” for some yeas before the end. She was then in a poor Third World country that subsidized senior health care. There was sill a sense of community that allowed for her to be cared for by a real human being who was not all together within the market economy. That couldn’t happen here in this air-conditioned nightmare we call the first world. Thanks for sharing what you’re going through. May the wind be at your back.

  37. Artleads Says:

    RE

    You jest, although this isn’t exactly a laughing matter. Yet, there’s a grain of truth there. We men have to do our best to take a back seat and appreciate what women experience and how they think differently from us. And women have to come to terms with their oppression and not take it out on other women, and fight for their values, which (IMO) are very much needed at this time.

  38. Bob S. Says:

    As for my NBL experience – I think NBL has taken a turn for the worse. First, I believe allowing ‘imbeds’ in comments is terribly distracting. Combined with ignoring the 2 post rule, it allows one or two folks to turn threads into their personal web pages. A you tube link suffices – if we allow posting images in comments I believe the comments section will turn into Dante’s comic strip.

    Second, I question blog administrators who have publicly stated their goal is to convince folks that NTHE isn’t real. Folks who have read so little about Guy they think he lives in AZ. and that those who believe NTHE is real are nay-sayers and quitters. Has NBL’s message changed?

    Third, seems nearly every thread these days is hijacked by the men are evil meme. Perhaps we could start a thread on the forum to accommodate the folks that are interested in discussing where the blame for their terrible ‘predicament’ lies?

    As I mentioned to Haniel, I feel a bit guilty criticizing after I never volunteered or expressed interest to help. So call me critical, call me crazy, call me a quitter, and complainer – but please roll the list back up neatly when you’ve added your 2 cents to my new designation.

    And before you put me through the shredder, remember, I’m a pathetic old crank and prolly not worth the effort :)

  39. RE Says:

    “You jest, although this isn’t exactly a laughing matter.”-A

    No, in this case I am not joking.

    I don’t think Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, Christine Bachmann or Condaleeza Rice are any better than their male counterparts. I don’t think Margaret Thatcher was any better for Britain than Ronald Reagan was for the FSoA. I don’t think it made a damn bit of difference that Golda Meir and Indira Ghandi were in charge of Israel and India.

    On a cultural level, women don’t seek power as often statistically as men do, but any that do seek power have the same behavioral characteristics. They are just as subject to being bribed as men are and just as easily corrupted. Two XX chromosomes doesn’t make you any more saintly than an XY pair does.

    The saying goes that behind every great man there is a great woman, but the converse is also pretty true, that behind every Jerk Male there is a Jerk Female. Ronald Reagan had Nancy Reagan at his back, Richard Nixon had Pat Nixon, George Bush had Barbara Bush. Jerks one and all, regardless of gender.

    Males and Females take the roles they do in society because of a combination of cultural conditioning and biological predispositions. However, if you flipped the roles it wouldn’t be any different, as a species we still would have the same problems. Besides that, the argument is a Straw Man, this is the way society organized itself up since Ag became the meme for living and you can’t go back and change that anymore than you can change that we left H-G life for Ag.

    RE

  40. RE Says:

    @BS

    Guy is Prof. Emeritus at the University of Arizona and his email addy is still there. I do recall him telling me he lives now in NM, forgive me for forgetting this when I made up the Spam Checker question.

    Insofar as convincing people NTHE isn’t real, that is not my point. My point is that it’s not a certainty on such a short timeline. That we will go extinct is unarguable, we will.

    Insofar as embedded graphics and vids go, if the community here doesn’t like this feature, it can be disabled. Similarly, the forum can be switched off at any time.

    I do agree with you that thread hijacking on the “men are evil” meme should have its own thread in the forum though. :)

    RE

  41. Robin Datta Says:

    Second, I question blog administrators who have publicly stated their goal is to convince folks that NTHE isn’t real.

    Nothing wrong with convincing. That way more can enjoy the scenery on the way down, if it does indeed happen. After all, it ain’t over till it’s over: and that will be no sooner than when the last stiff starts stinking. Confirmation can only be in retrospect, only in this case there can be no confirmation if it happens: there will be no one left to confirm it.

    Folks who have read so little about Guy they think he lives in AZ.

    That was a good one. Showed their colours.

    and that those who believe NTHE is real are nay-sayers and quitters.

    Those are folks who actions are motivated by their expectations. Acting in accordance with rational anticipation, but without expectation for results, is not their modus operandi, not can they imagine others acting otherwise.

  42. ulvfugl Says:

    @ Bob S.

    Hey, Bob, this blog is a river, it’s always taking turns for the worse from somebody’s point of view, depends which bank you’re standing on, sometimes it’s too full, sometimes too empty… at the moment there’s not nearly enough trolls around for me to kill… ;)

    Look, it’s a contested space. Sometimes it seems as if nobody actually listens to McPherson or reads his essays, the comments have nothing to do with the topic, and sometimes it’s just rehashing stuff that’s already been sorted a hundred times already, but new people start all over again.

    Personally, I’m sick to death of RE and his positivity, because this is the only blog on the internet where we can face NTE in peace without getting contaminated by hopium.. or it WAS.

    But I suppose we have to put up with RE, because he’s done us all a favour, along with Haniel, by sorting everything out in such superb fashion, and now if anybody derails the topic they can take their discussion to the Forum and argue to their hearts content for ever and ever and leave everyone else in peace…

    And anyway, RE is not the sort of fellow you want to upset, even if he’s in the wrong, (which he usually is), I know this, because he used to be on Jim Quinn’s blog, insisting that 7 million Americans died in the Depression… I can tell you, he’s not the sort of person you pick a fight with over some small minor trivial thing, because he will rip arms and legs off once he’s riled. That’s why he’s all alone up in Alaska. He’s been banned from everywhere else.

  43. RE Says:

    “Confirmation can only be in retrospect, only in this case there can be no confirmation if it happens: there will be no one left to confirm it.”-RD

    No, it could be confirmed by the last remaining Homo Sapiens, male or female. Since there would be nobody else left to reproduce with, extinction would be guaranteed and confirmable.

    Besides that, if you ever played the game PLAGUE!, you would know that it confirms Extinction once the Global Population drops below a thousand or so infected individuals. At that point IRL, I would throw in the towel too.

    Currently, there are 7B or so ambulatory Homo Sapiens left between here and Extinction. The Game has a few more innings left, and it ain’t over till it’s over. :)

    RE

  44. RE Says:

    “And anyway, RE is not the sort of fellow you want to upset, even if he’s in the wrong, (which he usually is), I know this, because he used to be on Jim Quinn’s blog, insisting that 7 million Americans died in the Depression… I can tell you, he’s not the sort of person you pick a fight with over some small minor trivial thing, because he will rip arms and legs off once he’s riled. That’s why he’s all alone up in Alaska. He’s been banned from everywhere else.”-UF

    Jimbo and I have smoked the Peace Pipe, and I am no longer banned from TBP. In fact we regularly cross-post each other’s articles on our blogs. :)

    Insofar as having to put up with me and my Positivity, yes at least until Guy asks me to put a lid on it you do. :D

    Finally, 7M Dead in the Great Depression is likely an underestimate. :P

    RE

  45. Tom Says:

    http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/12/24/3098991/ghost-climate-change/

    The Ghost Of Climate Change Yet To Come
    Unlike Scrooge, we don’t get a spirit to show us what the future holds if we don’t change our ways.

    In the past few years, though, we have gotten the tiniest glimpse of climate gone wild. As Dr. Jeff Masters stated, “The stunning extremes we witnessed [in 2010] gives me concern that our climate is showing the early signs of instability.” And the price tag for climate-related extreme weather reached $188 billion just in 2011 and 2012.

    And we did get dozens of scientific papers warning us of what is to come (see “An Illustrated Guide to the Science of Global Warming Impacts” and “Alarming IPCC Prognosis: 9°F Warming For U.S., Faster Sea Rise, More Extreme Weather, Permafrost Collapse”).

    [although the author isn't on board with NTE, it's a fair read]

  46. Pilot Says:

    The Doomsday Clock is set to be adjusted in January of 2014. It’s currently set at 1155pm. I have a feeling, given the latest information that we have gathered on Climate Change, that the hands of the clock will be pushed forward one, perhaps two minutes. Care to place your bets? I say 2014 will be 1157pm. I’d like to believe we could turn the hands back, but we’ve done too much damage with no action taken to reverse it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_Clock

  47. ulvfugl Says:

    @ Pilot

    Erm, you talking about the Politics of the Moment ?

  48. Gerald Spezio Says:

    Here is some recent glaring fudges by the National Academies of SCIENCE no less;

    Especially the claim that runaway methane release is UNLIKELY this century.

    McPhearson above says; The Clathrate gun has already fired.

    mt, yessir, how our tolerance for fudging grows & grows …

    Last night at Yule dinner a bright computer genius & trained engineer told me that he was flying home (round trip) to India.

    Although accepts anthropogenic global heating as a fact, he is NOT concerned about HIS additional CO2 contribution – about 30 tons minimum.

    http://www8.nationalacademies.org/onpinews/newsitem.aspx?RecordID=18373

  49. pat Says:

    I can just imagine that “The Forum” will be dominated by a few individuals with posts of 100 to 1, just like the NING site that is no longer. Not interested. The only thing that saves This Blog is the 2 post a day rule and the fact that Guy posts anew frequently.

    Watched “Last Call at the Oasis” last night – unbelievable how powerless we are against the corporate machine. Still, the documentary preaches the hopium such that the casual viewer would sleep well thinking “someone will take care of it.” I especially liked the recycled water segments with Jack Black pitching the Porcelain Springs bottled recycled sewer water.

    Just sitting on this runaway train, staring out the window.

    The Voluntary Extinction Movement
    Thou shalt not procreate.

    The Church of Euthanasia
    Save the planet, kill yourself.

  50. Gerald Spezio Says:

    The precise statement By the National Academies of “Science” SURPRISES “may be in store” REPORT;

    “The report notes that a shutdown in the Atlantic Ocean circulation patterns or a rapid release of methane from high-latitude permafrost or undersea ice are now known to be unlikely this century, although these potential abrupt changes are still worrisome over longer time horizons.”

  51. Guy McPherson Says:

    Christy, I don’t agree with the continued use of nuclear technology in any form. In my opinion, Light is ahead of most people with respect to methane release in the Arctic Ocean. But his “solutions” are absurd.

  52. RE Says:

    Guy is correct WRT Nuke energy, including Thorium which is basically a diversion tactic IMHO.

    While in theory Thorium reactors are “safer” than conventional Nuke, the technology of using molten salts to effectively run one of these things at positive EROEI has never been proven. Beyond that, like conventional Nukes, running such reactors depends on a lot of ancillary services in transportation and mining that demand liquid fuels. So you can’t really keep them running unless you can divert enough power to synthesize liquid fuel substitutes, and this is very power intensive with a lot of loss in conversion.

    There are new methods coming online for producing liquid fuels from algae, but again here you have a leveraging problem and besides that a biome problem if you expand algae growth.

    Any solution which demands high energy inputs past what the Sun delivers each day is going to subtract energy available from some other part of the system. The only solution which can work is to reduce energy consumption to just what is collectable from the Sun each day. It has to be Pay As You Go.

    Not going to devolve here into why this will or will not happen prior to extinction, but in theory you can set up a good system on a PAYG basis. It does NOT include Nukes of any type however, and all such technology needs to be abandoned.

    RE

  53. Tom F Says:

    Question for Guy. In the conclusion of Malcolm Light’s paper you linked to he states the following:

    In this case however we have totally tipped the balance with our extreme carbon dioxide and methane emissions so that there will be no chance of recovery for the Earth in this time frame, because the methane release will cause the oceans to begin boiling off between 115oC and 120oC (Severson, 2013) in 2080 and the Earth’s atmosphere will have reached temperatures equivalent to those on Venus by 2096 (460oC to 467oC)(Wales, 2013; Moon Phases, 2013).

    Do you agree with that?

  54. Haniel Says:

    RE said: Insofar as having to put up with me and my Positivity, yes at least until Guy asks me to put a lid on it you do.

    Personally, I have no desire to inject “hopium” in the discussions here, but will converse on this “off-topic” in the forums – they were meant for digressions. All I hope for is that those who come to the conclusion that there is no hope, do not try and take as many species as they can with them, and respect the planet that gave them the gifts that we wasted.

    Not everyone wants to live though a time of stress and competition for diminishing resources. It’s going to get ugly. A bottle of sleeping pills, a warm room the family, the last memories to take into an afterlife that of love, I will not discourage any from walking that path. Nor will I discourage those that will struggle to the bitter end, trying with each breath to make things as least bad as they can be.

    Tearing up the planet in the hope of one last fossil-fueled binge is far more repulsive to me.

    Until the system collapses, I’ll continue to help Guy get his message out. How one interprets his data, and reacts to it, is up to them. The threat is too great to make that decision for anyone else.

  55. Shizel Says:

    The Cascading Collapse Crisis and the Super Exponential Non-Linearity Event.
    The onrushing 6th Mass Extinction Event will become unstoppable and irreversible when one of any number of keystone species goes virtually extinct. Total extinction is not what counts because population quantity is what counts. One such lynchpin species is phytoplankton. We lost 50% in 50 years. 95% of humanity’s diet depends on 5 main crops Our farms are mono-cultures of bio-diversity deserts where even bees cannot survive because of the lack of food for them. We consume 50% of earth’s annual green stuff every year. We are willing to kill millions for their oil. We won’t mind killing everything for it. We are hard-wired for hope and optimism as part of our hunter-gatherer heritage. Our ability to deny mortality is a survival function of our heightened intellects. This allowed our brains to develop without us going crazy. We are unable to plan 50 years ahead because our background environment has always been relatively stable during our evolution as a species, meaning we never needed to plan that far ahead during our development. But, this is changing now. Historically, there have been 5 big mass extinction events. The Permian mass extinction event was the largest, with close to 95% of life on earth vanishing as a result of ocean acidification. We are acidifiying the oceans 10 times faster than that event. The fastest mass extinction was the dinosaur-asteroid event. That asteroid hit earth with the force of a million atomic bombs, but it still took as long as 33,000 years for the dinosaurs to go extinct over the whole planet. We are on track to extinguish most life on earth in as little as a few hundred years. Thus, we are entering a mass extinction event that is the LARGEST and FASTEST mass extinction event in all of earth’s 4 billion year history. We will have to go on a war footing that will make 911 and WWII look like funtime. We cannot make 7 billion people do what we want. We can barely control ourselves. Few will survive, if we are lucky. The loss of basic planetary services, like food and air will be profound. The transition from the apex of civilization to total planetary destruction will not be uneventful. The confluence of crises will overwhelm civilization, leaving chaos and violence in its wake, not to mention 400 more Fukushimas. Also, the earth’s gravity is weakening at a rate that suggests planetary magnetic pole flip. Which normally takes about a thousand years. During this time, earth will have as many as 8 roaming magnetic poles exposing plant and animal life to massive radiation burns for up ten years in any geographical area.

    http://www.cultureunplugged.com/documentary/watch-online/play/7350/Call-of-Life–Facing-the-Mass-Extinction

  56. Artleads Says:

    “I don’t think Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, Christine Bachmann or Condaleeza Rice…”

    Oops! I wasn’t aware that these people were women. Let me check it out and get back you.

    On another subject, out political system (created by and for the patriarchy) has nothing to do with women. Methinks you miss the point.

    I do agree that we only have the time and wherewithal to make the best of the current order. That doesn’t mean that individual and groups can’t change for the better as part of that process.

  57. mike k Says:

    Being aware of all that is being done on this planet to destroy life is maddening and deeply wounding. The realization that one can do nothing effective to stop this makes it that much harder to take. One can deny one’s helplessness in this regard, and continue to work to save this that or the other, but at some point it soaks in on you that your efforts are nothing more than make-work to distract you from the unfolding tsunami of death.

    What then is left? As Guy has so truly said: only love remains. What we individually and collectively have failed to do, we can at least try to do in the time that remains to us. Every act of love, however small and isolated and momentary carries a precious blessing in the time of its bestowal. Go loving into that good night…

  58. infanttyrone Says:

    “I don’t think Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, Christine Bachmann or Condaleeza Rice…”

    I think you were mixing up Michelle Bachmann and Christine O’Donnell. Two are more than we need. Please, no hybrids.

    And maybe you have family in Alaska that could be subject to reprisal,
    like that state public safety commissioner, but you left off America’s Sweetheart.
    —————————————————————-

    Like they say in the Fox News dressing rooms, apostrophically addressing the occasional resister they ‘cover’…

    You might have preferred the original, or one by Nina Simone, or Creedence, or even Diamanda Galas (my personal fave)…so excuse me for picking a winner, OK ?
    ——————————————————————-

    Oh yeah, economics…

    The Invisible Finger writes; and, having writ, Moves on
    from The Rubies & Yachts of Nations by Adam Khayyam

  59. Artleads Says:

    @ Shizel and Haniel

    Thanks for two great posts. Few have been clearer and kinder. Yes, some people will struggle to the bitter end, for that’s how (and perhaps why)they were born. They have no other way to be.

  60. RE Says:

    “Methinks you miss the point.”-AL

    The point I thought was that the Planet would have fared better if women were in charge than men. I don’t think that is true, so I gave a few examples of why I think that.

    If there is some other point here, enlighten me.

    RE

  61. Bob S. Says:

    Thanks folks for not tearing me a new one for complaining like an old woman :) OFC, ulvfugl said it rightly – the blog is like a river and everyone sees the flow differently from different spots.
    I have no bone with RE – I see he’s fighting the good fight up in AK – thought maybe he was an insurance salesman or something :) My complaint was inspired because since the migration only one comment was split off to the forum – my comment criticizing SUN – then I go to the Diner and RE’s explaining to the Diner patrons why he has to give us here at NBL the SUN “pitch”. Now this SUN is some serious spam – I thought the object was to reduce spam. Can it go in Guy’s Classified like the rest of the folks looking to connect?
    Everything is good – wish I had one of those Latrobes to put in the cupholder on my lounge chair. The show’s just heating up.

  62. Doomer Support Says:

    Bob said, My complaint was inspired because since the migration only one comment was split off to the forum

    Hi Bob, I split it off because I saw it as a genuine question but not relevant to that specific thread, I didn’t perceive it as criticism; it was the only way I felt comfortable taking a discussion in a different question.

    I think the Classified section is an excellent idea. What can I do to improve it?

    (crowdsourcing ideas here).

  63. Bob S. Says:

    DS said : “I think the Classified section is an excellent idea. What can I do to improve it?”

    Seems to be fine. Perhaps a little better billing? Maybe move it to the forum where more folks interested in Doomsteading can see and review the offers – maybe ‘classify’ them by some measure.

    We see what happens when serious hopium projects get put out there in the comments section – the author is usually eaten alive by the dedicated NBL posters.

    I felt better with the sacred feeling we had before – where hopium was touched upon but seen more as an intrusion when it turned to discussion.

    Now it seems the hopium addicts have breached the sanctuary walls to save us all from our miserable selves. I say off with their heads. Or at least banish them to the new (and improved) forum.

  64. RE Says:

    “I think the Classified section is an excellent idea. What can I do to improve it?”-BS

    Probably the Classified section should be in the Forum, not on the Blog. Then users could add their material themselves rather than Guy having to do it.

    Far as the SUN thread being Spam, no, it’s not. Spam is material unrelated to the topic of the board with the specific intent of selling unrelated products.

    SUN is completely on topic here and BS and I are answering specific questions on the organization posed by NBL members such as yourself.

    RE

  65. Bob S. Says:

    ulvfugl Says: “I can tell you, he’s not the sort of person you pick a fight with over some small minor trivial thing, because he will rip arms and legs off once he’s riled.”

    I lashed Popular Science magazines to my vital organs 50 years ago. I know how to be a warrior if I must. But now I’m old and grey and don’t breathe so well so I’ve slowed down and try to use my intelligence intelligently – like Akido master brushing threats aside. But lots of times I forget myself and break bad like the old days – learning to backpeddle like the dickens usually helps if I get in trouble :)

  66. RE Says:

    That’s a lovely graphic UF.

    However, nothing like that shows up on the Meteosat over the North Atlantic.

    http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/eumet/neatl/vis-l.jpg

    Also nothing on Weather Underground.

    RE

  67. mike k Says:

    I miss Paul Chefurka’s comments here. This is from a recent piece on his blog (with his permission):

    “But this form of denial is easy to spot. There is a more subtle form, one that is endemic among the white hats of the green movement. They are the ones who tirelessly work from the moral high ground – to change policies, to develop and promote green technology, to encourage sustainability. They resolutely refuse to countenance any thoughts of our predicament being inextricable. Tireless work, even in a lost cause, tends to keep one insulated from the deeper, darker realizations, and lets one keep fighting the good fight. Heroism has always been an intrinsic part of our story: “Quitters never win and winners never quit!”

    http://www.paulchefurka.ca/Denial.html

  68. RE Says:

    We did a Collapse Cafe with Paul Chefurka and George Mobus a while back. Actually I invited Guy to join in that one but he couldn’t get his camera to work with Google+.

    RE

  69. Haniel Says:

    @RE

    Who you going to believe, the guy who can stick his head out the window, – or meteorologists, who are only beat by economists when it comes to being wrong?

    I’ve seen a few facebook posts from friends in Wales, complaining about the weather. Granted, we Brits complain about everything, but people I trust are battening down the hatches. Winds are at least a constant 30 miles an hour there, with gusts up to 50. Over here, that would have the emergency system blaring.

    I miss real weather :(

  70. Doomer Support Says:

    SUN is completely on topic here and BS and I are answering specific questions on the organization posed by NBL members such as yourself.

    BS??? :(

  71. RE Says:

    Not saying I don’t believe it, just I can’t find anything else about it besides the graphic that UF put up. I looked on NOAA also.

    RE

  72. RE Says:

    Oops. DS. LOL.

    BS is the other guy doing the complaining.

    RE

  73. Haniel Says:

    Not saying I don’t believe it, just I can’t find anything else about it besides the graphic that UF put up. I looked on NOAA also.

    RE

    That’s disturbing. Here’s the BBC page for UK weather, look at the pressure map, it reflects the link from ulvfugl.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

    Wonderground has a high wind advisory alert for Cardiff. Are extreme weather events (as defined by people who have lived there for decades and never seen the like) being downplayed?

  74. PMB Says:

    People, can we please, please, please respect and stick to the 2 post a day rule? At least on current discussion threads.

    I believe that is the current working agreement among. I’ve been on the site closing in on a year and I’ve found that that works to keep the current discussion from being hijacked.

    Thanks.

  75. logspirit Says:

    In martial arts training an indomitable spirit is inculcated over the years. No matter what the odds or circumstances, you simply rise and continue, banishing all sensations of doubt – before they appear. Even when death is ultimately certain… especially when death is absolutely certain, you simply continue, you get up again no matter how many times you’ve been knocked down. This attitude slowly becomes ingrained in your outlook. That’s the idea, anyway. We all do the best we can. Even the strongest are overcome and melt from time to time. It is human to feel, and that is our best asset and worst, most dangerous, vulnerability. In this period of rapidly approaching human extinction, the ultimate test of unflinching spirit is presented. Many will fail, and succumb to the lowest levels of human response… to feelings of insecurity, selfishness and apparent need to respond with brutality. A few will use this opportunity to perfect their lives and feel the calling to respond to every increasing hardship with personal dignity and compassion for others. “The modern budo has no external enemy, only the internal enemy, one’s ego that must be fought.” (Wikipedia) We have placed our necks upon the chopping block and bound ourselves to it… in the final moment, as the blade whistles, will we taste fulfillment or want?

  76. Lidia Says:

    @Artleads, I respect you as a person, but I can’t agree. We just are coming from two different philosophical realms. My “no hope” may have a different quality than yours.. coming more from a Buddhist “no hope/no fear” space (while I rush to caution everyone that I have little training or study in that space, and so make no special claims about it). I do have something of a science background, and hope/fear just don’t have a place in science, that I can see.

    Hope entails a lot of striving and yearning, a lot of narcissistic panic and so forth… things I can do without. I’m repulsed on many levels by an insistence that somewhere by some means some germ of humanity “must” be made to survive and carry on (carry on what is rarely precised).

    On an ovarian cancer site I follow, a member posted about discontinuing chemotherapy so that she might enjoy some of the time she has left. This, of course, brings the other camp out of the woodwork in full force: “don’t give up the fight”! This is such an ingrained Western/American meme, of ” the fight”. We are all supposed to be Rocky Balboa, bloodying ourselves to beat the odds at all costs. A wiser commenter intervened, saying, iirc, “it’s one thing to give up, and another to know when you’ve had enough…” Hasn’t the earth had enough of us? Haven’t we had enough of ourselves? I and most posting here have lived large, enjoying more power, comfort and entertainment than any humans before or after us. This, to me, is more than enough. The jig is up, it’s a fair cop: the process of natural selection selects against us in the end, as it has done with 99.9% of species, the only possibly disturbing aspect of this being that we so rapidly worked to hasten extinction upon ourselves.

    What I see in the “don’t give up” crowd on the cancer forums is Fear.… in this case fear of death… which they then impose upon another party who has expressed a lack of fear, to try and bring the outlier back into the Borg. The same can be said for religious exhorters: they need you to join them so that they are not alone in their fear. They like to practice fear in groups, and go so far as to invent artificial fears, like the fear of Hell, seeing as the real world is not fearsome enough as it is. Fear seems to be a waste of time and energy to me, and so does hope. Either you *can* change something (in which case, do so), or you cannot. “Hope” is a generally-delusional non-entity, a harmless balm at best, cruel propaganda at worst. That’s how I see things, today at least.

  77. Lidia Says:

    Testing. I just wrought a comment and after the captcha was accepted, it didn’t appear.

  78. Artleads Says:

    Logspirit

    Lovely post. It reminds one of the need for humility and guarding against oneself.

    Lidia

    I felt so bad after my rant that I now am most delighted to hear back from you.

    “On an ovarian cancer site I follow, a member posted about discontinuing chemotherapy so that she might enjoy some of the time she has left. This, of course, brings the other camp out of the woodwork in full force: “don’t give up the fight”!

    This goes back to the hope/no hope scenario that you discussed re your mom. It’s a mysterious subject for me (and I’m not sure it isn’t for you too). In that particular case, it seems that the medical establishment is on the wrong track. And I applied (and applaud my mom’s third world care which was more humble and human. Her caregiver was invested in keeping her going despite mom’s frequent anguish. But this wasn’t forced or cruel or influenced by money. It was just what a kind (genuinely) Christian woman, who also happened to like and understand my mom, did naturally.

    But was all sweetness and light? Not entirely. I wanted mom to keep living, for she was far and away the oldest person our family had ever known. She had been the work donkey among her siblings, and her life experiences made her vulnerable to subtle, persistent undermining from them. I wanted her to live unbelievably long and “show” them. Hubris, I guess.

    If I’m to have compassion for myself, I guess I need it for those keep-fighting folks you mention too. It is not as if they’re up on the deeper aspects of the situation and are acting out of malice (which I know you know). It’s more as if we’re all screwed up in our various ways, not only as individuals, but as reflections of our screwed up cultures too… Well, so it seems anyhow.

    On the subject of NBL, there is something else going on with me. I’m more than willing to back off and avoid the issue of hope (which I don’t subscribe to, although that might be a semantic wrinkle). And to give those who are more science-savvy than I respect in their conclusions. Although my position is closer to religion, I’m not a science denier by any means. Science didn’t get me to NBL. I knew that we were on a path of doom entirely independent of science. So, all of a sudden, there was science to back me up, to provide measurements and analysis that PROVED the truth of my deep conviction, as well as escalated my clarity and sense of urgency.

    That said, I’m coming from a very different place from the educated, privileged westerner. I straggle first and third worlds. And to be told that my experience is irrelevant, that science alone matters, that western science in a western society is neutral and has the full spectrum of truth for everybody (i.e., is above being shown anything its cultural context might have obscured) is a bit much.

    What might have been obscured is not scientific fact; it is the possibilities for resistance of Industrial Society (IC). That is also obscured are the truths, understandings, insights that art has to offer.

    You will note that I’m making no reference to the inevitability (or not) of NTE; I confine myself to the issue of resistance. And this is where I feel myself on solid ground, for although that wasn’t my term for what I’ve been doing my entire life, I now see that I was on the resistance path even in my mother’s womb. Resistance is as much who I am as what I do. I was born into an impossible world, one that provided me no space at all. My only option was for the world to change. As you say, you enjoyed power and (my term) privilege. My issues are more complex. I had enough of these things to see the world (dimly) from your perspective, but I see it, as well, from the opposite perspective, which you perhaps don’t yet have…

    What I know for sure is that what is called resistance in this society is an absolute travesty. You need to talk to people who were born resisting. You also need to talk to artists. Art, when it is true, is about resistance and change, and it offers doors that scientists generally are blind to.

    Isn’t it ridiculous to be asked to give up on resistance when one is quite certain that it has not truly been launched?

    This must be my longest post to date! I had better stop now. :-)

  79. TR Says:

    Random thought: This was probably a great place before Homo sapiens.

  80. dairymandave Says:

    Great place? Before Homo S. and even now, all species reproduce as fast as they can, faster than we do. There is nothing to hold them back. But the selection process keeps things under control. Humans were clever enough to outsmart the selection process. We simply don’t like it, we don’t like evolution. We hate it.

    If intelligence were an advantage, many if not all insects and animals would have it just like they all have eyes. Many have eyes better than ours…and they do have brains to a degree.

    I wonder how many species started to get smarter, too smart, over the ages and the disadvantage led to their extinction.

  81. David Long Says:

    I totally agree with Geoffrey’s conclusions here: there is a mass effort by paid pundits for the fossil fuel industry to infiltrate public and academic discourse with misinformation that favors industry, at the expense of future life on the planet. And we need to expose it, all of it, at every level. And I appreciate your heartfelt need to do that.

    The one thing I would resist here is Geoffrey’s tone, in which one detects more spite than passion for truth. The obesity comment, for example, is just plain stupid and has no relevance in this context, despite the author’s attempt to qualify it. Geoffrey, you’re a doctor, is that right? Would you call an obese person fat for having a hereditary thyroid problem, or diabetes? I doubt it. I doubt you would stoop to that level. And why degrade “Brisbane prostitutes” only to later apologize to real prostitutes?

    There’s no need to employ the political language of personal responsibility to wage an assault on systemic issues, of which obesity is one and ecocide is another. After all, most people on this page are preaching to the choir. By using the language of neoliberal elitist scoundrels to destroy neoliberal elitist scoundrels, you compliment them too much by speaking their language. A true posture of radicalism would involve more tactfulness. So please, be more tactful.

  82. Godofredo Aravena Says:

    Geoffrey
    Your essay confirm what we somehow know. The changes required to avoid collision with the iceberg will not come from the top, even though they are on board too, and this time, there are no boats at all. Insanity.
    Thanks for your efforts.

  83. mt Says:

    Put my shoes on the correct feet, it should be a pretty good day.

  84. Mr BelleIslander Says:

    Lidia SAID: The same can be said for religious exhorters: they need you to join them so that they are not alone in their fear. They like to practice fear in groups, and go so far as to invent artificial fears, like the fear of Hell, seeing as the real world is not fearsome enough as it is. Fear seems to be a waste of time and energy to me, and so does hope. Either you *can* change something (in which case, do so), or you cannot. “Hope” is a generally-delusional non-entity, a harmless balm at best, cruel propaganda at worst. That’s how I see things, today at least.

    You do seem to be very wise! Please keep commenting here like you do because I’m sure that many might be learning much from you.

  85. dairymandave Says:

    Godofredo; As I see it, we did hit the iceberg in 2008. Only a few know it, those at the bottom and those watching. The rest are still dancing and having a good time. The ship hasn’t started to tilt yet.

    Recall what happened when the ship did start to tilt. These are the good days.

  86. Pilot Says:

    @dairymandave

    Actually, I think the ship has started to tilt… just started. But at one or two or three degrees of list, no one (as you say) has noticed yet. But it has started.

  87. mike k Says:

    Some misguided and uninformed souls still hold out hopes that “science will save us.” They are unaware that science, like every other major institution of our culture is totally corrupt and has more to do with get rich schemes than a wise and disinterested search for truth. The “gifts” science has bestowed on us have a lot to do with the NTE that is facing us now.

    I have been watching the TV show Farscape, narrated by James Woods and Michio Kaku. If you have doubts that modern science is dangerously out of control and out of touch with basic human values, watch this insane vision of our SF future, complete with eager young scientists feverishly working to make it “come true.” Of course a lot of it is financed by the Defense Department and DARPA.

    Once one’s eyes are opened to NTE, a lot that is going on that the public blandly accepts is seen in its true light as criminally insane. The masses have been trained to gratefully accept the poisonous offerings of those mindlessly destroying the chances of future life on our planet…

  88. mike k Says:

    My comment just previous to now did not print.

  89. Doomer Support Says:

    Mike K said, My comment just previous to now did not print.

    Mike, you comment got caught in the spam filters again. See the thread “Subscribing is now available” for how to avoid this, and also the need to enter a captcha with every comment. It’s not required, the current system works okay, but when a person “subscribes” then after the first post or two, the filtering takes off the jackboots. :)

  90. Kirk Hamilton Says:

    Malcolm Light 12/22/13: “Essentially we have passed the methane hydrate tipping point and are now accelerating into extinction as the methane hydrate “Clathrate Gun” has begun firing volleys of methane into the Arctic atmosphere.”

    I am as totally devoid of hopium as I am of faith in mankind. When people come here and spout that we need to relax a bit and we don’t know where our salvation may arise, I just want to grab them around the throat and squeeze! It’s like they want to drag out our agony of doubt for as long as possible so they can stand for awhile in some dim limelight. They set themselves apart, ego driven, strutting up and down our Beach kicking sand in everyone’s face and saying, “Smile, it MIGHT be OK.”

    Well, screw them and the horse they rode in on. They’re trolls, no matter their credentials, and I’m tired of having to wade through their effluent to get to the Beach of Doom. Get it? Beach of DOOM! You’re not welcome here!

    I’m thanking everyone who is working so hard to limit access to this site! ;)

  91. Kirk Hamilton Says:

    Where’s ulvfugl? I hope you’re OK, buddy. Please check in ASAP!

  92. Artleads Says:

    Positivists resist feeling sad. They need to have a vision. To have a positive vision or not, that is their question. So, a positivist (if that’s a correct term) on the Beach of Doom would have a positive vision of doom.

    Over time, I’ve found repeatedly that I figure out a way to understand and behave at he precise moment when I can no longer benefit from such discovery. What if something similar could befall humanity on the way to extinction?

    A positivist might find that consoling. Positivists get a charge from the sublime (great). The end of life on Earth is great. A doomer positivist wonders whether this great event can be positive rather than negative. That hinges on whether or not HS figures out the required understandings and behaviors (that would have saved the world if done sooner) just one second before midnight. Such understanding and behavior triumphing at last might seem irrelevant to many, but to positive it would mean a lot.

  93. Artleads Says:

    “…but to positivists it would mean a lot.”

  94. RE Says:

    AL, you appear to be doing Armchair Shrinking of my Thinking. LOL.

    Let’s start with the “Resisting Feeling Sad” part. True and Not True.

    I am very sad we have reached such a pathetic state of existence and that VERY hard times are ahead for the planet and all its inhabitants of many species.

    However, I’m not going to get all Mopey and Weepy over this. It’s depressing to be around mopey weepy people. Do I want to spend my last days on Earth depressed?

    Far as being Beached on the Shores of Doom goes, you can look at the Positive side of it. For instance, once things get really rolling here, there will be a LOT of Dead Banksters! LOL.

    You don’t get to choose when you were born or where either. You don’t get to choose the economic class you were born into either. If you got handed a real bad deal like perhaps being born an Untouchable in India, it’s pretty valid to be depressed about that. However, for most of us here, we got a pretty good deal overall, far as I know none of the NBL regulars are starving anyhow as of yet.

    Barring absolute destitution, you have some choices and can take some action, you are not powerless on the local level. What the world in general does it what it does, but moping and weeping about it won’t change it. So if you are going to go out anyhow, Go Out with a Smile! :)

    RE


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