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Shadows and lies

Thu, May 8, 2014

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When you’re dead, you don’t know you’re dead. People around you feel it, though. It’s the same when you’re stupid.

My promotion of a gift economy seems stupid because it doesn’t involve the pursuit of money. As a result, I receive gifts, especially when I travel. Books and shirts are among the most popular items I receive, and the latter often contain witty historical expressions. Among my tee shirts is one with a phrase from Benjamin Franklin: “It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority.”

Most people I encounter clearly do not agree, at least in practice. In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. Still, I’m astonished at the prevailing mentality among the American citizenry I encounter. Apparently we are so afraid to question authority, so willing to believe blatant lies, that we willingly capitulate to liars and thieves dressed as CEOs and politicians.

I provide few links in this essay. Evidence for each of the following claims is abundant and easily obtained. If you’ve not grasped these tidbits by now, additional evidence will remain unconvincing. I suspect your ignorance is willful, your inability to see a direct result of eyes sealed tightly shut.

Most notable is the inability of nearly everybody I know to pursue radicalism. For starters, most people I’ve met cannot distinguish between a radical and an extremist, despite the clear difference.

If it’s unclear I’m writing about you, ask yourself this question: “What have I done recently that runs counter to the status quo?” If you don’t have a significant response, you’re likely to squirm while reading this essay.

Plunging down a rabbit hole — any rabbit hole — apparently makes one likely to pursue radicalism on additional topics. Fortunately for governments, few citizens are willing to look deeply into any topic, no matter how important. The shadows in the cave are far too comfortable to risk facing reality head-on.

And then there are the Strong Suggestions of Thermodynamics Laws of Thermodynamics. The official story of 9/11 violates the Laws of Thermodynamics, yet few people I know are willing to question the official narrative (consider, for example, controlled demolition of WTC building 7). After all, doing so would adhere to Franklin’s maxim, a notion foreign to the typical modern ‘murican. The Orwellian absurdity continues with the disparaging term applied to those who question the impossible official narrative: “truther.”

A few additional examples are presented below. They provide an opportunity for me to launch a too-infrequent rant into the void. Ergo, my latest attempt to combine reality with its common partner, absurdity.

Civilization is not the only way to live. Indeed, humans lived without civilization for more than two million years. We’ve lived within the shackles of civilization for a few thousand years. Civilization clearly is omnicidal. Few notice. Even fewer care.

Civilization is an expression of patriarchy. The current version of industrial civilization benefits a few Caucasian men at the expense of every other living being. Most civilized people believe this set of living arrangements is wonderful.

If you are reading these words, you benefit from imperialism. American Empire is real, and it covers the globe. There is no escape.

The two dominant political parties in the United States represent twin cheeks on the same ass. If you believe the next person to occupy the Oval Office will improve the situation for the masses, then you do not understand the issue. Elizabeth Warren, or any other “progressive” candidate (i.e., contemporary neo-conservative) — the next great hope of many forgetful Democrats — will prove as disappointing as the current president to these deluded, die-hard dims Dems. Warren, by the way, is worth about $14.5 million, owns a $5 million mansion in Cambridge, was paid $350,000 to teach just one class at Harvard, and has the audacity to say that “the system is rigged to benefit the rich.”

The United States is dominated by a corporate government and corporate media. When greed is your only god, sociopaths assume control. We’re there, fully embedded within patriarchal fascism. The standard response of my fellow citizens: “I want more. I deserve more.” Apparently I occupy the land of the me and home of the crave.

The big banks have run this country for a very long time. They orchestrate everything from laundering drug money to cracking down on any form of resistance. They’ve been in charge for a very long time. Few notice, and even fewer care.

Working on behalf the big banks is the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, which has ruled the country and world with an iron fist since World War II. The myriad agencies within the executive branch, including the National Security (sic) Agency, feed the machine. NSA whistle-blower Bill Binney, who worked for the NSA for 30 years before resigning because of concerns he had regarding illegal spying on U.S. citizens in 2001, provides an apt summary: “The Ultimate Goal is Total Population Control.”

The American system of public education is designed to “dumb down” the populace. Critical thinking belongs to a bygone era. Nearly every one of the so-called, self-proclaimed teachers I know refuses to acknowledge reality on this issue. And most other matters, for that matter. These teachers are paid to think, and also to teach others how to think. They have overwhelmingly failed, and they continue to fail.

The prison-industrial complex, like almost every other aspect of American culture, is designed to enrich the wealthy and enslave the poor. Some people claim the system isn’t working. Au contraire: It’s working as planned, as indicated by the beneficiaries of American Empire.

Monogamy and the marriage-industrial complex are part and parcel of patriarchy. The dominant paradigm is not superior to other ways of living. Deep down inside, you surely understand.

We cannot sustain the unsustainable, including civilization. Nor should we attempt to do so. Civilization requires tremendous violence. Industrial civilization is the most violent version yet.

American exceptionalism is a myth. American military power, largely supported by willfully ignorant taxpayers, is necessary to maintain American lifestyles, including grid-tied electricity, the modern banking system, and all that follows.

Abrupt climate change is under way. Global climate change causes suffering and death of humans and other organisms. There is no escape.

Net energy decline is under way and soon will contribute to the early death of most humans on Earth. Fossil fuels have peaked and the Age of Expansion has been replaced with the Age of Contraction. The Age of Conquest has nearly reached its overdue end.

Collapse of industrial civilization is under way and will be complete soon. When collapse is complete, the world’s remaining nuclear power plants will melt down catastrophically, thus shortening the lives of many humans and other organisms. There is no escape.

The interaction between anthropogenic climate change and collapse of industrial civilization affects every aspect of human life in the industrialized world. There is no politically viable approach to addressing either issue, much less the interaction between them.

Many centuries ago, Plato presciently wrote a line that resonates strongly with me: “Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed by the masses.” Indeed, we’ll disparage them by, paradoxically, referring to them as “truthers.” We will therefore remain in the shadows of our cave of blissful ignorance.

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MalpracticeSuite from Pauline Schneider on Vimeo.

Support Pauline’s work on her documentary film, Going Dark, by clicking the link below

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If you have registered, or you intend to register, please send an email message to guy.r.mcpherson@gmail.com. I’ll approve your registration as quickly as possible. Thanks for your patience.

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16 May 2014, 7:00 p.m., Terra Nova de Corazón, Ecuador, “Responding to abrupt climate change” (details on poster below, click here for additional information, and follow the event on Facebook here)

17-18 May 2014, all day, Terra Nova de Corazón, Ecuador, grief-recovery workshop (details on poster below, click here for additional information, and follow the event on Facebook here)

Ecuador

4 June 2014, Wyoming, debate with H. Leighton Steward, who often represents the fossil-fuel industry. Read about Steward here.

Wyoming debate flyer

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Going Dark is available from the publisher here, from Amazon here, from Amazon on Kindle here, from Barnes & Noble on Nook here, and as a Google e-book here. Going Dark was reviewed by Carolyn Baker at Speaking Truth to Power and by more than 30 readers at Amazon.

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231 Responses to “Shadows and lies”

  1. Tom Says:

    One of your best yet Guy, especially the humor and clever “wordsmithing” throughout.

    http://health.usnews.com/health-news/articles/2014/05/07/scientists-create-1st-living-organism-from-artificial-dna?src=usn_tw

    Scientists Create 1st Living Organism From Artificial DNA

    Move over, Frankenstein! Your 21st-century counterpart has just been announced.

    In true sci-fi fashion, a team of researchers from The Scripps Research Institute (TSRI) in La Jolla, Calif., has created a brand-new bacteria based on a genetic structure found nowhere on Earth.

    According to lead researcher Floyd Romesberg, the feat involved artificially engineering a unique combination of DNA material — a combination not found in any living creature — and then successfully inserting it into a living cell that usually contains only natural combinations of DNA.

    “Life on Earth in all its diversity is encoded by only two pairs of DNA bases, A-T and C-G,” Romesberg explained in an institute news release. “And what we’ve made is an organism that stably contains those two plus a third, unnatural pair of bases.”

    “This shows that other solutions to storing [genetic] information are possible,” he added, “and, of course, takes us closer to an expanded-DNA biology that will have many exciting applications — from new medicines to new kinds of nanotechnology.”

    Romesberg and his colleagues discuss their handiwork — funded in part by the U.S. National Institutes of Health — in the May 7 online edition of Nature.

    The product of more than 15 years of work, the current effort builds on a proof-of-concept study conducted in 2008. At that time, investigators had shown that hooking up natural and unnatural pairings of DNA was possible in a test-tube setting.

    The next challenge was to replicate the process inside a living cell. The cell chosen by the TSRI team was the common E. coli bacterium, and into it they inserted what they considered to be the best unnatural DNA pairing they could construct: a combination of two molecules called “d5SICS” and “dNaM”.

    After leaping through a series of highly complex technical problems, the study authors finally managed to pull off their goal: the fashioning on a half-synthetic organism that could actually replicate its unnatural self as long as scientists continuously supplied it with the necessary molecular material.

    Romesberg said that, in principle, his team’s high-concept work has a very practical purpose: to gain a “greater power than ever” to fashion new treatments by harnessing the power of genetics.

    [there’s a link for more information]

  2. Henry Says:

    No escape, true enough. And as I see the ocean recede from the beach, and know a tsunami comes, I see two babies alone in the shade of a palm tree. I hesitate, only in my thoughts, for my body runs to pick them up. And, oh, then comes their mama, looking pleasingly enough like that young Joan Baez of 1973, and we then run equally fast, each holding one baby.

    And if we can somehow outrun that wave, that day, and find ourselves on higher ground, well then, what a lucky guy am I!

  3. Bob S. Says:

    “The two dominant political parties in the United States represent twin cheeks on the same ass.”

    Yup – and right around the corner is where the independents hang :)

    “In a number of modern democracies (e.g., India, Greece, Canada and the Ukraine) voters can opt to cast an “against all” or “scratch” vote for “none of the above” candidates.”

    http://www.salon.com/2014/05/07/none_of_the_above_for_president_an_easy_fix_to_give_american_voters_more_power/

  4. Curtis A. Heretic Says:

    Guy, truly one of your best statements ever. One of the best by anyone who see the reality. No more needs to be said. Thank you!

  5. Devin Says:

    “In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.”

    Great quote Guy!

    Your question though, got me thinking: “What have I done recently that runs counter to the status quo?”

    The answer, unfortunately, is nothing. I’m very much a part of the system, and “benefit” from this insane culture we live in. That being said, I’m not blissfully ignorant… I’m fully aware of the problems facing us and this planet, and agree with everything you write here.

    You advocate pursuing radicalism, but then the rest of the essay is filled with quotes like “There is no escape”, “There is no politically viable approach to addressing either issue”, and “The Age of Conquest has nearly reached its overdue end”.

    So, given these inevitabilities (if that’s a word), what courses of radicalism should be pursued to make a difference and run counter to the status quo? I think your definition of “radical” is a good one, but understanding the root of a problem is different from actually taking action to make a difference. I guess this disparity goes back to your line about theory and practice…

  6. Grant Schreiber Says:

    There are no politicians in the US anymore. What we have instead are campaigners, poll watchers, marketeers, and bag men for the corporation.
    Legislation is written by lobbyists because all of Congress spends the majority of their time fund raising for their next election.

    Recently, NPR ran a story on how Joe Biden had more or less forced Obama’s hand in favor of gay marriage by saying he supported it fully. While the NPR report dealt with the steps it took the White House to come out in favor of gay marriage, it also revealed great political cowardice, poll driven policies and a complete lack of leadership.

    Gay marriage is often sited on how the US can still act in progressive ways and therefore maybe something can be done about climate change. But who people marry doesn’t cost a single corporation a penny. That is the real reason gay marriage is “accepted” by the power elite. If homosexuality was revealed to stop oil drilling, you better believe it would be punishable by death.

    In Japan, complaining about radiation levels is now a crime. In New Zealand, one of their high ranking officials said that “wetlands don’t matter.” Germany, often sited for bold directions against nuclear power, is turning to coal to keep things running. The corporate control behind all of this is easy to see.

    The next painfully long presidential election campaign has already started. The debate we will never see will be between a couple of people in the board room of Goldman Sachs. “Which one of these mooks will give us the most of what we want?” is the only question. The answer will be the next President of the United States. And it’s been that way for years.

  7. Sabine Says:

    Guy, I agree with Tom, well clothed in black humour. This is the only way to put it now. You see reality, and we see with you.

    @ Tom
    Thanks for that, and why am I not surprised?

  8. TemplarMyst Says:

    I’m perpetually struggling with the issue identified by Devin above. The suggestion that radical action is needed but the equally clear statement that nothing that can be done.

    Lacking any additional way to resolve this conflict, I suppose I just try things out. Getting involved at a local level with some of my village mates. Looking at what might be done there, but also accepting that several of my village companions would like to try to change things at a national level.

    Inevitably I wind up back at discussions of energy, but it seems the use of energy is verboten unless it is entirely natural in some way. Which leads me back to how one might possibly sustain our local village of about 22,000 fellow humans with only natural energy. Particularly when it is -15F outside.

    Which gets me back to being radical, and what that means. Theoretically radical action would be to do something to care, to share, to show compassion. To live a life of excellence.

    But do it without impacting anything. Which gets me back to how to do that.

    Which just starts the whole process all over again ;)

  9. ogardener Says:

    Hello Everyone.

    Thanks for another outstanding essay Guy.

    It’s in the low 40’s deg. F. today and raining in my neck of the woods. I haven’t had time to post lately because the growing season is upon us and I’ve been busy in the garden and woodlands creating habitat for my friends. Something @Kling and I agree upon. *See Recent Sightings. I added ‘Bartlett’ pear and ‘Red Haven’ peach trees to my orchard this year. Existing ‘Redhaven’ peach trees are in flower now as are Asian pears. ‘Red Ace’ Beets are coming along nicely as are snow peas and the salad garden was planted yesterday from seedlings I started a few weeks ago. Way too early for any sun and heat loving plants like tomatoes and peppers yet. Some parts of the compost pile were still frozen a few days ago. Have lots to do yet so my posts will be intermittent at best.

    Jagger Meister indeed. :-)
    I’m likin’ the ‘Harp’ beer a Guiness product mfg. in Canada. Actually he has pretty good form. :-D

    Peace

  10. Grant Schreiber Says:

    TemplarMyst: So how on earth did people exist anywhere before electricity? Especially when it is -15F outside. Is it -15F all the time?
    If so, I would move to a warmer clime. If not, perhaps some kind of communal living would have to arise, borne out of necessity.

    “Brothers!” you could shout. “Either we find a way to live together or we freeze to death in this horrible winter! Would you rather share your warmth or be dead come Spring? Would you rather live together or die apart? What will we do?” And the crowd would mutter how crazy you sounded and go back to their homes to die.

    Then maybe, you’ll only have 11,000 people to worry about and things get easier.

    Of course, that’s fantasy. As is living “without impacting anything.” No matter what you do, there is an impact. The goal is to reduce the impact as much as possible. Like stop flushing your waste into the drinking water, and stop setting the forest on fire in order to chase out rabbits and stop killing everything so your lawn looks pretty.
    Some things are easier to do than others. Some will be forced upon. Most of us will become semi-vegetarians because the price of meat will get too high. Many will do without having lights on at night because of the cost of energy. And so and so forth.

    A village of 22K certainly stands a better chance of living than a city of 3 million, but cities get such a constant bad rap, I expect close to a million or more will flee in panic and go muck up the countryside.
    Where ever you are now, stay put. It’s not going to be any good figuring out how to live elsewhere. You’re already an expert in your area. The best advise, no matter where you live, is to be a good neighbor. Help those you can now and perhaps get help in the future.
    Best of luck!

  11. Brandon Ross Chapman Says:

    Guy,

    First, I’m in agreement with the majority of what you wrote. You have a way of seeing through the propaganda and calling it like you see it. I can respect that. There does seem to be something which does not seem to be evidenced just yet. If you can provide information to back the claim, I’ll check it out.

    “Net energy decline is under way and soon will contribute to the early death of most humans on Earth. Fossil fuels have peaked and the Age of Expansion has been replaced with the Age of Contraction.”

    Net energy decline is not yet a reality, based on the information I have been reading over the last decade. There have been some forecasts that it would decline by now, and that it had started to stagnate, but clearly this was not the case, and the stagnation which coincided with economic contraction last decade, ended up leading the way to new investment opportunities, which we’re now seeing the results of.

    This in no way is an overall “good” for the species, or life on this planet in general, as it seems a chunk of the gains have been due to fracking, and shale oil, which you’re aware is directly and even more so environmentally destructive than conventional oil, but also more energy intensive, ie lower EROI.

    I don’t see there being an issue in the near future with energy security for the dominant powers out there. There’s still a ton of tightening of the belts which could be done if necessary. Now, if we’re talking in terms of decades and centuries. Sure. There’s simply no convincing data to back the assertion that net energy decline is underway, or will be so within.. let’s say the next 5 years.

    I’m open to evidence proving otherwise.

  12. ulvfugl Says:

    Nothin’ to say :-)

  13. TemplarMyst Says:

    @Grant,

    Thanks for the comments. I think you can see the dilemma, and I think Guy and Devin and at least most of the folks here see it too.

    It’s impossible to be both caring and compassionate and to also consider the collapse of industrial civilization within the same framework. The two thoughts are mutually exclusive. I’d suggest they are so, whether we are discussing just humans or all species as a whole. You’ve brought up the most obvious and glaring problem. If the humans in the cities (really, in the countryside too) begin to have problems, they will fan out and devastate everything in their path. If we think we’ve done a fine job of crashing nature so far, just wait until there are several billion hungry humans on the move. Nothing, but nothing, will be overlooked, ripped up, and eaten. Nothing.

    So that weighs heavily when I consider Guy’s big picture. If there is some thought to preserving at least a modicum of nature, well, that seems problematic to say the least, given the circumstances. I can try to envision some way to deal with it all, but as many have pointed out here, the cards are heavily stacked against the types of changes in human institutions which would be required.

    Still, one tries where one can. The locals I’ve started to meet and get to know are a decent lot. Not many of them see the big picture, but so what? We can’t do anything about the big picture anyway, if Guy’s analysis proves correct. So no harm in working at the local level. Gives us something to do, and much of it is rather benevolent.

    With regards to your comment on humans existing without electricity, of course they did/can. From all I can gather the criteria for this were 1) very small populations or 2) larger populations living in relative poverty, with a tendency to beget even larger populations. Electricity seems to cut both ways. It facilitates even larger populations, which further degrades nature, but when a certain standard of living is reached it seems to also encourage smaller families. Japan, Italy, and even the U.S. (whose population, I understand, would be negative if not for immigration). But by the time you reach that part of the curve the devastation has been extensive.

    No easy thing. To be sure.

    On a personal note, I can understand how Guy has moved into a hospice framework at one level. I had to watch my mom slowly die from cancer, and I myself faced eleven days in the hospital with a heart condition I thought might well be the end of me. So I was forced to go through the various stages of grief during these events. I guess it comes down to what one considers Acceptance. I prefer to wander the garden and talk to the neighbors as my way of coping. But I also think of ways to escape the cancer. It won’t help, but how can I be blamed for thinking about it?

    (Per convention, additional posts for today over in the Forum. After work)

  14. Lidia Says:

    Just dumped my first humanure bucket into the compost area.. yech. Amazing how flies appeared within 30 seconds.. some noses on them flies!

    Re. going along. My dad put some money in trust for us, that we were to get when my mom died. The bank won’t give me the check unless I sign a piece of paper saying not only that this is all they owe me, but that I give up my right to ever question them about it again, or sue them for malfeasance. They’re holding it hostage until I agree to cover their ass. I don’t believe this is legal, and in fact some Googling shows me it’s not in 2 states at least: CA and TX. In those states the bank has “the right to ask for a voluntary waiver”.

    Now, what’s interesting about this is: when I saw this form I said to myself, “No way am I signing this!” Yet the bank person says not only have they never had anyone not sign it, but they’ve never even had anyone *question* it before! Lest you think that’s just the bank talking.. my lawyer didn’t seem to think it was a big deal either.. that “that’s what they always do, you always have to sign a waiver..”. And I’m alone wondering “what’s wrong with this picture?!?” Then the bank manager said to me, “if there’s really an issue, then signing the paper doesn’t mean anything; you can still pursue action..” Well, then if the paper doesn’t mean anything, then why can’t I just not sign it (by which I mean just sign the part that says I received X dollars)?

  15. Lidia Says:

    @Guy, there are some people who are by nature just authoritarian followers (you may have read the document produced by a Canadian academic: http://www.scribd.com/doc/63023309/The-Authoritarians-Bob-Altemeyer ). Questioning authority is contrary to their nature. There is some scientific indication that these personality traits are genetic.

    My born-again sister, who I drag into conversation every so often, seemed normal enough to me growing up, but now she seeks out books with BDSM themes, like “Submitting to God’s Authority”. She doesn’t see, nor does she WANT to see, herself as the author of her own life. The author is the one who gets to write the story, of course.

    But then NTHE breaks all the stories, except we do have time for a short story, I suppose. Bathroom reading.

    Anyway, questioning authority is dangerous not just because you materially want to be out from under the control of Goldman Sachs or Stalin or whatever person or system is oppressing you. The problem is that you are MESSING UP THE STORY for everyone else… THAT’s the main problem.

  16. RespectLifeOnEarth Says:

    “Blissful ignorance?” That common (American?) expression (“ignorance is bliss”) is the equivalent of saying, “It is better to be blind than to see.” But how many would agree with that?

    As Guy points out, Nature bats last. Reality bats last.

    Those who live in ignorance only avoid/miss out on living life to the fullest possible. They do not avoid the reality of life, which comes to bear equally for everyone.

    You are what you do. What you do is your life.
    A just life is its own reward. Evil is its own punishment.

  17. Rick Says:

    Guy,
    I do believe you are finally honing your craft. You are an inspiration, I’m proud to know you and consider you (if I may) a close friend. Thank you and I look forward to every day we get to share all this, whatever it is. I wouldn’t want to do it without you.

  18. Bud Nye Says:

    Wonderful essay Guy! I agree completely.

    We have recently had some discussion about what “doing something” means within our Eco-collapse Support Group in Tacoma. It seems clear that some people, in perfect alignment with our human supremacist, reductionist science (vs. holistic science), domination-based society, strongly think in terms of “doing something” as meaning mainly or exclusively doing something “externally” to “solve the problem”, to “save the planet”, or one of hundreds of variations on those themes. Meanwhile, for those of us in the group who consider it too late for us and probably most other species, and who now fight to maximize the number of species that may pass through the inevitable extinction bottleneck that we have created (among other things that we work for), in addition to the external action meaning of “doing something”, also, and perhaps more importantly, for us it points to a whole different class of behaviors. As one person in our group stated it so succinctly and so well, “Minimize the suffering, for as long as we’re here.” Or, as another put it almost as briefly and just as well, “But do it because it brings you joy, connects you with others, human and non, not because you think it’s going to save the planet at this point. If it does, so much the better.”

    It seems to me that different people having different ideas about what “doing something” means often produces a good bit of confusion and misunderstanding, sometimes even some “horizontal hostility”. If one person thinks “doing something” means, or should mean, taking action to “solve the problem” or to “save the planet”, or some variation on those themes, while another thinks of it more as minimizing the suffering during the inevitable and unavoidable horrors unfolding around us because it is way, way too late either to “save the planet” or most humans, we will surely have some important confusion and misunderstanding–as well as some differences in how we personally prioritize our limited time and efforts. I don’t mean to suggest any one, “right” or “best” use of the term. I only wish to point to a need to clarify what we mean with the key words and phrases that we use when we use them.

  19. BenjaminTheDonkey Says:

    Dammit, posted in wrong place. Apologies. Responses to most recent posts:

    Thanks, Tom, and tvt! :)

    @ Robin dude: Gotta question. Do you take matter or consciousness to be primary? TIA!
    ==

    the virgin terry says:

    Watching The Wheels

    When I tell people there’s no solution
    To the problem of our execution,
    They say I’m a nut,
    And tell me my butt
    Belongs in an institution.

  20. Shep Says:

    I feel extreme sorrow, for individuals on our planet, who are bereft of empathetic emotion for living organisms.

    Yesterday, May 7, 2014, the sun was bright, I was cutting grass/weeds, and “Jack”, our Russell, took off with “Tess”, our Redbone, to explore the same territory for the umpteenth time, down by our mudhole of a pond. This is terrifying to us given the pedators that lurk. You just never know when…

    As I was finishing my task, I noticed Jack, running, then, sheepishly slinking up to the rear of the tractor, as he does when he has something that is bothering him. He was pretty much a mess and obviously was going to need a bath. I usually stop, get off, and hug the daylights out of him. I am so happy when I see that precious little man coming home. This time tho, I was tired and irritated for several reasons, so, I kept on ‘hogging’ the grasses. Jack took to several different spots as I moved about and he waited patiently for me to stop. I pressed on.

    Finally, I finished, and the ever patient Jack, waited… for me to get off the tractor and greet him.

    I laid down to go to sleep about 8 PM and suddenly my mind returned to the movie in my mind of Jack running up to see me. Then… my eyes filled with tears and my heart broke. Why had I not gotten immediately off the tractor to hung him? I had let him down! How could this happen? I receive unconditional love from this ultimate friend of my wife and mine, constantly, and I couldn’t get off the tractor to hold him when he was anxious and hopeful he had not done anything wrong. But there he sat, in the shade of several different trees, as I mowed around and around until I finished.

    I picked him up and we rode back to the house, together. I’m sorry Jack, I’ll do better, until the imminent end of this planet; especially, when you need me.

    Dad

  21. Bud Nye Says:

    Wonderful essay Guy! I agree completely.

    We have recently had some discussion about what “doing something” means within our Eco-collapse Support Group in Tacoma. It seems clear that some people, in perfect alignment with our human supremacist, reductionist science (vs. holistic science), domination-based society, strongly think in terms of “doing something” as meaning mainly or exclusively doing something “externally” to “solve the problem”, to “save the planet”, or one of hundreds of variations on those themes. Meanwhile, for those of us in the group who consider it too late for us and probably most other species, and who now fight to maximize the number of species that may pass through the inevitable extinction bottleneck that we have created (among other things that we work for), in addition to the external action meaning of “doing something”, also, and perhaps more importantly, for us it points to a whole different class of behaviors. As one person in our group stated it so succinctly and so well, “Minimize the suffering, for as long as we’re here.” Or, as another put it almost as briefly and just as well, “But do it because it brings you joy, connects you with others, human and non, not because you think it’s going to save the planet at this point. If it does, so much the better.”

    It seems to me that different people having different ideas about what “doing something” means often produces a good bit of confusion and misunderstanding, sometimes even some “horizontal hostility”. If one person thinks “doing something” means, or should mean, taking action to “solve the problem” or to “save the planet”, or some variation on those themes, while another thinks of it more as minimizing the suffering during the inevitable and unavoidable horrors unfolding around us because it is way, way too late either to “save the planet” or most humans, we will surely have some important confusion and misunderstanding–as well as some differences in how we personally prioritize our limited time and efforts. I don’t mean to suggest any one, “right” or “best” use of the term. I only wish to point to a need to clarify what we mean with the key words and phrases that we use when we use them.

  22. Eddie Says:

    Nice rant, Guy. I feel your pain. Yes, I’m complicit in the imperialism that’s killing the planet. No, I’m not a radical, although I’m frequently mistaken for an extremist. It seems like the best I can do is build my little lifeboat, stock it with whatever looks halfway sensible and just hang on. I can’t imagine anything..any movement, any politics, any anything, that might slow down the Titanic we’re trapped aboard.

    But futility is not an emotion I do well. I will garden, work on learning how to live a better way, try to teach my children, who are now adults and therefore unteachable and way smarter than I am. I will continue to reach out to other people and try to build community. That’s about as radical as I’m inclined to get, and even doing that is a daunting task, and one at which I’m ill-equipped to succeed.

    I keep thinking about that old story…the one about teaching the horse to fly.

    http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2007/07/09/teaching-the-horse-to-fly/

  23. Robin Datta Says:

    Do you take matter or consciousness to be primary?

    What exists apart from you consciousness? Remember, it is YOU consciousness, not the concept “your consciousness”. “Matter” is a concept constructed from prior inputs and is stored; the concept is recalled when needed to compare it with new inputs. All of this can be accomplished without invoking the agency of conscious awareness. However, if you happen to have conscious awareness, that is exclusively your experience, and no one else’s. If someone else also happens to have conscious awareness, it is again exclusively that person’s experience. The concept “other people are aware of matter” seems congruent with the concept “matter”, and both concepts are consistently reinforced from sensory inputs.

    The edifice called “the world” is constructed by projecting from many such constructs. In spite of all the consistency across all the myriad details, it is all a construct. Remember, even the word “consciousness” points to a construct, a concept easily confused with “your” conscious awareness, overlookIng YOU conscious awareness.

    Nucleic acid analogue are an aspect of Xenobiology.

  24. Brandon Ross Chapman Says:

    @Robin Datta

    I can only take about 90% of that, but some of it sticks out as being besides the point, and not really true.

    It’s true, every character in this post is symbolic constructs that we collectively agree on, yet without a human to interpret it, it would not exist?! Nonsense.

    I take the most famous example: If a tree falls in the forest, and nobody is around, does it make a “sound”.

    The answer is no, but more importantly, it does create the same fluctuations in energy which would be interpreted by many higher organisms with the sense for sound, as such. So it’s besides the point.

    I don’t see energy as consciousness, so energy is the primary force, neither matter, nor “consciousness”, being yet another human construct would suffice.

    Consciousness, nor matter, is as encompassing as energy.

  25. Bob S. Says:

    Brandon Ross Chapman Says:
    “Net energy decline is not yet a reality, based on the information I have been reading over the last decade.”

    A quick google search of “net energy decline” gives this as #2. Net Energy And The Economy George Mobus, Ph.D.

    http://faculty.washington.edu/gmobus/Energy/NetEnergy/NetEnergyAndTheEconomy.pdf

    Net Energy Peak and Decline

    We are already in net energy decline from
    fossil fuels

    Diminishing EROI in fossil fuel extraction,
    conversion, and distribution

    Renewable (alternative) sources cannot
    scale up anytime soon

    Renewables
    may not have a sufficiently
    high EROI to be sustainable

    Put Net Energy And The Economy, George Mobus, Ph.D. into google and you can find George Mobus’ Curriculum Vitae. His website is QuestionEverything dot typepad dot com.

    Seems they are defining net energy as kind of a more precise EROI. I read USA needs EROI of 8:1 to be sustainable. China is maybe 4:1. But there is a wide range depending on how many costs you include.

    And a EROI of 8:1 in USA already implies substantial “belt tightening”. Start with the depreciation on the oil field worker, the refinery worker, the truck driver, and the farmer;you would need an EROI of 7:1 or 8:1. If their children were to be educated you would need perhaps 9:1 or 10:1, to have health care 12:1, to have arts in their lives maybe 14:1, and so on.

    Tar sands and shale oil are 5:1 and 3:1 respectively. So if we”re counting on those two sources we”re already in deep do-do.

    Trivia — baked potatoes have the same energy content as tar sands.

  26. Jan Steinman Says:

    I have to agree with those who question the dissonance between a call for radical change, followed by fatalism.

    I have been away from this blog for some time, because I need to be relentlessly positive in order to be radical.

    I’m under no illusion that I’m going to “change the world,” but c’mon, now — throw me a bone! Give me a reason to remain radical, other than watching some 300 nuclear plants melt around me!

    “Think globally, act locally” is almost a cliché, but it works. No, you can’t “save the world.” It was here first, and it’s going to have to save itself, if it may.

    But you can do your best to save one small part of it. No, you’re not going to remove the CO2 from above your oasis. No, you’re not going to magically avoid the crap coming from Fukushima.

    But you can live your life as though you intend to stay. I don’t have progeny, but I live my life as though the progeny of those I’m close to intend to stay, too.

    That’s the best we can do, folks! So take solace that you can do something, and go about your radical business (as much as you can) joyfully!

  27. Stephen McRae Says:

    All of you accept Guy seem to not have a clue about love. You allways defend that which you love with your life even against insurmountable odds otherwise you have never loved. And to have never loved another is as great a tragedy as this omnicidal culture destroying all of life on earth. So before it is too late to know love go throw yourselves gleefully,lovingly,passionately into the gears of the machine before it is too late for you!!!!!

  28. Haniel Says:

    “A village of 22K certainly stands a better chance of living than a city of 3 million, but cities get such a constant bad rap, I expect close to a million or more will flee in panic and go muck up the countryside.”

    They won’t have a chance, they will carpet-bomb the cities to protect viable arable land. The wife’s part of one of the medical teams trained to take care of any collateral damage to US military assets – i.e., injured soldiers.

    Estimated casualties in a US collapse are 50M inner city civilians. I’m sure the bacterial inhabitants of both ass-cheeks that guy referenced will be safe.

  29. kevin moore Says:

    Thank you Guy.

    This could not come at a better time because Mike Lee at Collapse of Industrial Civilisation is now engulfed in the black hole of his own making which is centred on 9/11 denial. After several rounds of firing insults at people, he has taken to deleting comments that challenge his ludicrous stance that we should not question the absurd official narrative.

    Indeed, Mike has now painted himself into an impossible corner because he has labelled anyone who challenges the official bullshit a ‘conspiracy theorist’. So the news is you have been consigned to the trash heap, Guy, along with me and dozens of others.

    Fortunately for you, and unfortunately for Mike Lee, most free thinkers (not wandering round with the blinkers of empire firmly in place) can see the truth, and appreciate you presenting it over and over again.

    As Tom noted, one of your best.

    As for CoIC, what was a good website is now redundant, having imploded at a rate somewhat slower than the buildings did on 9/11 but with a similar result…… a pile of rubble.

  30. kevin moore Says:

    “Why do you do it? Why? Why get up? Why keep fighting? Do you believe you are fighting for something? For more than your survival? Can you tell me what it is? Do you even know? Is it freedom or truth? Perhaps peace? Could it be for love? Illusions, Mr Anderson, vagaries of a feeble human intellect desperate to justify an existence without meaning or purpose. And all of them artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as love. You must be able to see it, Mr Anderson. You must know it by now. You can’t win! It’s pointless to keep fighting. Why, Mr Anderson? Why do you persist?”

    “Because I choose to.”

    (from 1 hour 48 minutes)

  31. Brandon Ross Chapman Says:

    @Bob S.

    Read the PDF. There was no hard data in it. I’m at his site trying to sift through the articles to see what he’s got.

    The answer is pretty easy… our short-term solution is coal.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_returned_on_energy_invested

    It has greater than twice the EROI as petroleum, and isn’t being depleted anytime soon.

    It currently accounts for 40% of energy needs, and is projected to become more than 55% in the coming decades.

    The other solution will be biomass, and don’t go thinking about corn! try algae, bacteria, and maybe even viruses. That will become a significant source of energy in the future.

    The problem there, as we’re already starting to see, is water. You can get around that, in part, by using seawater for certain species, though that would likely cause wear and tear and equipment over time. Another solution is simply innovating desalination techniques to become cost effective when scaled up.

    There’s solution for chunks of the problem, but trying to do it all at once… yep, it certainly seems insurmountable. It’s a good thing there’s more human minds on this planet now than any other time, and we’re more hyper-connected now than ever.

    The increase in frequency and intensity of collapse of various systems which affect human beings has at times, though-out history, been offset by technological progress. Other times it’s not enough.

  32. Robin Datta Says:

    I take the most famous example: If a tree falls in the forest, and nobody is around, does it make a “sound”.

    Which of the following is not a concept / construct?

    “I”
    “take”
    “the”
    “most”
    “famous”
    “example”
    “If”
    “a”
    “tree”
    “falls”
    “in”
    “the”
    “forest”
    “and”
    “nobody”
    “is”
    “around”
    “does”
    “it”
    “make”
    “a”
    ““sound””

  33. OzMan Says:

    Aw crikey Guy,
    don’t hold back,
    tell us what you really think!
    Some of that brandy you were swizzling on the previous phone interview still in the veins, I suppose. Cheers.

    Brandon Ross Chapman

    Errr Brandon,
    just checking through my ledger…where is it?…
    ah yes here it is:

    Cheep oil is needed to mine, refine, transport Coal, and maintain the electricity grid its burning is substantially used for(not to mention all the products made by factories with the electricity so generated).

    Sorry. ;)
    No way out,
    ‘cepting through the realisation route, in my view, (never been any other way neither)

  34. RE Says:

    Politics in the end devolves to War as the economics fail. Happens over and over again, we witness it in real time once again over in Ukraine.

    RE

  35. Anthony Says:

    Lidia Says:
    May 8th, 2014 at 11:18 am

    “@Guy, there are some people who are by nature just authoritarian followers (you may have read the document produced by a Canadian academic: http://www.scribd.com/doc/63023309/The-Authoritarians-Bob-Altemeyer ). Questioning authority is contrary to their nature. There is some scientific indication that these personality traits are genetic.”

    Those who will not bow to authority have been getting weeded out of the gene pool for millenia. . . Silurians, Ordovicians, Apache (mostly)

  36. Tom Says:

    The current fad (pun intended):

    http://www.wired.com/2014/05/diy-brain-stimulation/

    Inside the Strange New World of DIY Brain Stimulation

    Here’s another:

    http://phys.org/news/2014-05-energy-tower-electricity-arizona.html

    Energy tower for producing electricity set for Arizona

    Solar Wind Energy Tower (SWET) with a focus on “solar wind downdraft tower” structures for producing electricity last month announced it got the green light from San Luis, Arizona, to develop such a tower in the city, which is located on the southwest corner of Arizona, a border town to San Luis, Sonora, Mexico.

    As the name “solar wind downdraft” suggests, the company has developed what is described as a hybrid solar-wind technology approach that can harness the power of a downdraft, created when water is introduced to hot dry air. The company said that its hybrid system is able to outperform pure solar collectors that produce only when the sun is shining and also wind turbines that produce only when the wind is blowing. Instead, the company has a hybrid advantage of being able to produce abundant, clean, affordable electricity.

    The tower that SWET has in mind is located in a hot dry area. The tower structure is a hollow cylinder reaching skyward into the dry atmosphere heated by the solar rays of the sun. The water introduced by the injection system near the top of the Tower evaporates and is absorbed by the hot, dry air. The air becomes cooler, denser and heavier than the outside warmer air and falls through the cylinder at speeds up to and in excess of 50 mph. The air is diverted into wind tunnels surrounding the base of the tower where turbines inside the tunnels power generators to produce electricity. (Each tunnel has a dedicated generator-room, with multiple-sized generators, powered by the patented drive system. The tower produces clean electricity, 24 hours day and night, 365 days a year.) [take a look and read the rest]

    Before we get all excited by these clever innovations, consider that this is the species who also does this (without even going into elephant and rhino poaching):

    http://www.desdemonadespair.net/2014/05/poachers-take-chunks-from-california.html

    Poachers take chunks from California redwoods, putting majestic trees at risk – ‘It’s not just a crime against us as Americans … it’s a crime to everyone’

    Tree poaching conjures up the lawless Amazon jungle, but America’s magnificent redwood forests now face a piecemeal but steady assault by poachers too, California officials say.

    Thieves are cutting massive chunks from the base of the champion trees, which are the tallest on Earth and are up to 2,000 years old. While state officials say the damage is far from any Amazonian deforestation, they do rank the desecration alongside elephant tusk poaching.

    Under the cloak of darkness, bandits are poaching the burl from the old-growth redwoods in Redwood National and State Parks in California, and that lumpy feature from the tree base is then sold for thousands of dollars to make furniture, bowls and even souvenirs, officials say.

    “We’ve seen a peaked increase (of theft and damage),” says Candace Tinkler, chief of interpretation and education at the park. “Unfortunately I feel that it’s more than we can keep track of.”

  37. Tom Says:

    https://robertscribbler.wordpress.com/2014/05/08/dangerous-progress-toward-strong-el-nino-continues-as-extreme-kelvin-wave-rises-in-eastern-pacific/#comments

    Dangerous Progress Toward Strong El Nino Continues as Extreme Kelvin Wave Rises in Eastern Pacific

    It’s happening. The most powerful sub surface warming of the Pacific Ocean on record is continuing to progress into the Eastern Pacific even as it rises toward the surface. As a result, risks for the emergence of El Nino during 2014 are spiking together with the potential for a host of global weather extremes.

    [conclusion]

    Rising Potential for Very Bad Weather

    With the world’s weather already pushed to extreme states by human warming, the emergence of a strong El Nino would likely have increasingly severe consequences. Weather events at both the flood and drought extreme would be further amplified as a portion of hottest ever Pacific Ocean heat content transferred back to the atmosphere. This transfer would push a hydrological cycle already amped by more than 6% due to human-caused warming to a greater extreme. It would also likely result in new global high temperature records worldwide as a Pacific Ocean that had sucked up so much of excess human warming during the past decade and a half again becomes a major heat source.

    Finally, to back up ulvfugl’s Ukraine comments, this seems apropos:

    http://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/05/08-2

    The Wars to End All War

    “Peace, as we have seen, is not an order natural to mankind: it is artificial, intricate and highly volatile. All kinds of preconditions are necessary.” — Michael Howard, The Invention of Peace

    And here comes World War I, wrapped in World War II, wrapped in the Cold War: tremors on one of Planet Earth’s human fault lines.

    We have enough angry, manipulable people on this planet to carry out the game plan of the political ideologues and war profiteers, who are always on the lookout for the next war, the one that’s too volatile and “inevitable” to stop. As David Swanson, author of War Is a Lie, put it: “The search for a good war is beginning to look as futile as the search for the mythical city of El Dorado. And yet that search remains our top public project.”

    And the searchlight stops at Ukraine, full of neo-Nazis, corrupt oligarchs, nuclear reactors, an unelected government, a wrecked economy, a simmering civil war. God help us. Old animosities and ideological divisions come back to life. The United States and NATO stand off against Vladimir Putin’s Russia. Thirty-one people — maybe more — die in a burning building in Odessa. This kind of thing could be the pretext for a world war. Sanity is up in flames.

    [read the rest of this well-written article which ends with]

    The neo-Nazi nationalists who attacked the pro-Russian protesters in Odessa last week, burning their tent encampment, driving them into a building and setting that building on fire with Molotov cocktails, reputedly called their dying enemies “Colorados” (which are black and red potato beetles, the color of the ribbons symbolizing a pro-Russian political commitment). So here we have it: the full spectrum of “human nature” on display in Ukraine: from dehumanizing insult to . . . potential nuclear war.

    “Peace, as we have seen, is not an order natural to mankind.”

    Reaching for our higher — angelic — nature is not a natural reach, but now is the time to try.

  38. Edward Kerr Says:

    @ Brandon Chapman,
    You just don’t “get it” do you? Sorry….

  39. Robert Callaghan Says:

    Our way of life is so unsustainable that even switching to solar and wind power would be too ecologically costly to succeed, if we do not change the foundations of our political economy. Efficiency and conservation only encourage more growth. We cannot even comprehend our failure. A recent study in Nature says that, within our current system, it would take 10 times the amount of “green” energy to displace one unit of fossil energy. This simple fact is so important, it should cause you to blow your mind, as well as your bowels.

    Solar-wind energy only make up one-tenth of one percent of our total energy mix. It would take 30 years to switch over the whole planet to “green” energy. Just the mining operations for liquid metal or molten salt batteries alone would wreck earth’s ecology. All the mining operations for heavy metals, rare earth elements and conflict minerals that solar and wind power require would end most life on earth, just by simple dint of poisoning the bio-sphere. Even now, 20% of China’s farmland and drinking water is too poisonous for human use.

    The world bank president says we have just 5-10 years left until we are reduced to fighting for food and water. Climate scientist, Michael Jennings, says we have just 13 years until runaway climate heating becomes catastrophically unstoppable and irreversible. Within one generation, we could be facing irreversible, unstoppable catastrophic cascading mass extinction collapse of all life on earth as we know it.

    It was the economic crash of 08 that scuppered the Copenhagen 09 climate negotiations. Around the 2016 elections, the China bubble will burst. It is the mother of all financial bubbles. Chinese banks grew 15 trillion U.S. dollars in just 5 years. It took 100 years for all of America’s commercial banks to grow that much. It took the American Gross Domestic Product 100 years to grow that much. Prepare!

    The special conditions that allowed life on earth are so singularly unique that it may well be we are the only advanced life forms in the whole universe. The only good news is that you and I are at the apex-precipice of all human civilization, which means everything you and I do, and don’t do, really really matters. The oligarchs can’t survive without you feeling weak and helpless. You and only you, in all of human history, have the power to change the world. Use your imagination to tell a new story about how the world works and then tell your friends. Use social media for something good for a change.

  40. Brandon Ross Chapman Says:

    @Ozman

    “Cheep oil is needed to mine, refine, transport Coal, and maintain the electricity grid its burning is substantially used for(not to mention all the products made by factories with the electricity so generated).”

    Incorrect. Oil is needed. Not Cheap oil. For the decrease in EROI from petroleum goods, an increase in EROI must be thrown into the system from other sources.

    Are you aware that the US has a plan to transition from petroleum to LNG where applicable? That certainly helps give slack for the things which truly are (currently) essential to come from petroleum.

    Are you aware of algae-oil, and it’s many advancements over the years? It won’t be too much longer before a process and strain is found to scale up that can directly compete with petroleum, considering it’s declining EROI.

    @Edward Kerr

    You’re not above me, so quit acting like an ass-hat. If you have something of substance to enlighten me with… bring it.

  41. Sabine Says:

    @ Jan Steinman

    “Live your life as if you intend to stay. I have no progeny ….

    Jan, that’s it in a nutshell! That’s how I survive too(until it’s no longer possible).There are still generations of some animals and plants who will survive a while longer. They are worth caring for. However, when I see a tiny oak sapling, I always ask myself “How large will you get before we’re all snuffed out?”

    And if you have beloved humans, they are worth it too.

  42. Grant Schreiber Says:

    Haniel believes “They won’t have a chance, they will carpet-bomb the cities to protect viable arable land.”

    Not a chance. They can send in storm troopers (police) to crush poor sections of a city, but they aren’t about to risk any loss of real estate or damage to the institutions of POWER in every city.

    They will carpet bomb the peasants in the countryside. You know, the area of the US known commonly as “fly over country” that just happens to hold most of the land mass. But screw the fly over people, they haven’t mattered one bit for years other being the main source of the armed forces.

    Did you know that if you live in Chicago and sign up for military duty chances are you will be state side or sent to Europe or Japan? The soldiers getting killed and pushed into suicide are mainly from small towns and rural areas of the fly over states. Why? Because there aren’t any networks or major newspapers in Bird Squat Iowa. And therefore there aren’t any nationally published photos of former soldiers without any arms and legs. There isn’t any news coverage of blinded, crippled, mutilated soldiers with deep depression. There aren’t any war torn vets out begging in the streets. It’s blunted and the burden is solely upon small town, rural America. It’s not called the Invisible War for nothing.

    The plan, already in place, is to invade Canada for their farmland as our farmland dries out. It remains unclear who gets the farm this land, perhaps there are tractor corps we know nothing about.

    But the cities are still the centers of money and power and that is always protected. As an Ethiopian official observed during one of their many food shortages: “If we don’t feed the people in the cities they will riot. If we don’t feed the people in the countryside they will starve.” It’s an easy choice for any government.

  43. andyuk Says:

    ” The official story of 9/11 violates the Laws of Thermodynamics, yet few people I know are willing to question the official narrative.”

    i generally agree with guy, but i dont think anyone can claim this. from what i gather from when it comes up on internet forums, that the 9/11 event was some kind of conspiracy by ‘shady elites’ is an extremely popular idea (in the USA at least), and even more often than known facts like man made climate change and evolution. and certainly more so than collapse of civilization or NTE which truly are rare opinions, probably held by far less than 1 in 100.

    but i havnt seen anything of slightest merit to convince me that the official narrative is false. im especially curious as to what bit of it violates the law of thermodynamics as from what i saw it was an extremely good example of thermodynamics! and most of the arguments that it was anything other than an act of islamic terrorism seem extremely easy to debunk and im curious to know why someone of guys intelligence would give the 9/11 conspiracy even 5 minutes of time.like the denialism about the moon landing, 9/11 conspiracy points are only superficially convincing, and fall apart pretty quickly when you look into them.

    call me naive, but if things are called ‘conspiracies’ it tends to make me skeptical of them. like global warming DENIALISM, there is a clue to what things are by the terminology we collectively use to describe them. a name is a tacit admission by society at large as to what things are. like christianity being a RELIGION. even if a large section think their religion is reality, we know its probably a load of BS because its called religion. its something that just happens.

  44. Brandon Ross Chapman Says:

    @Robert Callaghan

    No doubt our way of living is unsustainable, and this planet will be left in ashes by the time we’re done with it, but looking to the world bank for your source of knowledge is really not too wise. Do you realize what the purpose of the world bank is in the empire? It has an agenda to paint a picture, and indeed help create it in any way possible, of a need for countries to be bailed out, to further be controlled.

    As for climate scientists saying it’s the end of the world. Sure, you can find extremists in any field. For every extremist, there are many more moderates who don’t deny the truth, but temper their conclusions with what the data truly shows. The extremist projects their own insecurities onto the world.

    The whole hope is that we’re continuing in what seems to be insanity, ie civilization, in the process destroying in order to create. Hey, that’s what life does, don’t knock mother nature. Life feeds on life. So we simply keep on, realizing our ultimate demise on this planet, all the while continuing to technologically advance at an incredibly rapid rate, and exploring ever further.

    What truly needs to happen? We need to do everything necessary to keep civilization afloat long enough to:

    1. Find a new suitable earth.

    2. Develop the tech to get there.

    3. Learn from our mistakes here, and not fark it all up as easily.

    I don’t accept that this isn’t attainable, and I don’t understand someone who would give up on technology to “save the planet” that doesn’t need saving. It’s inevitably going to die, as are we all, and while there is ultimately no point, we’re here with this set of conditions, and do our best. So my focus is ultimately with the species, and not all of life… just cause it makes me feel good, or something or another.

    That means geoengineering, however seemingly insane it may seem to people who really really hope for a future that was more like a past that never was, is something which must be used in the future. That means whatever else we gotta do, is going to be used, as is necessary. To not do this because… well, we’ve all funked up, so we’re going to funk this up… that’s just a nonsensical statement, what IS technology? It’s not farking up, it’s progression, and something that HAS staved off an unknown amount of collapses in the past.

    I don’t get this hospice stuff, or this kill yourself save the planet, or this I’m not giving up, but I’m not really trying, either. This is all fatalistic, and based on my perceptions and values, very weak. That’s the thing though, people who genuinely are wired to think like this, have different perceptions and values. I can’t change them, nor do I really want to. Let them be as they are. At the same time, people who aren’t stuck in a rut, will BE DOING SOMETHING. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn’t.

    The end result has always been the same (death), but the means by which they come (now or later, here or elsewhere)was never and CURRENTLY IS NOT set in stone. If you merely accept the inevitable, it will HAPPEN TO YOU, not be something you choose to shape into your own creation. In a way, we’re all doing that, but some are simply more passive than others. Now is NOT the time to be passive.

  45. ulvfugl Says:

    I agree with E. Kerr, Brandon Ross Chapman.

    Burning coal just seals our doom, means we reach an unliveable planet faster.

    “Methane emissions are one example of a positive feedback between ecosystems and the climate system. The permafrost carbon feedback is one of the important and likely consequences of climate change, and it is certain to trigger additional warming. Even if we ceased all human emissions, permafrost would continue to thaw and release carbon into the atmosphere. Instead of reducing emissions, we currently are on track with the most dire scenario considered by the IPCC. There is no way to capture emissions from thawing permafrost as this carbon is released from soils across large regions of land in very remote spaces.”

    http://robertscribbler.wordpress.com/2014/05/08/high-velocity-human-warming-coaxes-arctic-methane-monsters-rapid-rise-from-fens/

    NTE is guaranteed. Not just for the reasons I’ve mentioned, but because so many people, including those who are moderately well educated, just cannot understand the science sufficiently well.

    The post Prieur mentions, on the Mythodrome comment, Dermot, that links to a blog with comments by Haniel and others attacking Guy and Carolyn Baker and this blog as a ‘death cult’, and repeating all the slanderous bullshit we’ve already heard from RE, shows complete ignorance about the case being made here.

    If people are just too lazy or too stupid or too careless to actually read and study, then it is no surprise that they don’t understand, and project idiotic misconceptions of their own invention onto what’s being stated.

    They’ll catch up eventually, in a year or two.

  46. steve Says:

    It is painful and embarrassing to read all these useless, vapid, rankly narcissistic responses to the end of all life on earth by a bunch beer swilling pampered upper middle class western white morons while all other life on earth intensely suffers from their endless, mindless, entitled leisure to meanly pontificate on the torturous death of all others.Drinking and laughing on the steps of Treblinka like any good SS officer.

  47. Henry Says:

    ulvfugl — thanks for saving me the time and breath to answer {on previous thread) Paula’s passionate piece, a day old in my memory now, so I may not do it justice except to say that it reminds me of all the “politics is personal, personal is politics” blather from the 70s. “If something makes me feel a certain way, then it must be so.” (Not saying her fine writing is “blather”, either. Let’s read carefully, now.)

    I really did appreciate how she expressed what she did express, honestly revealed, how she can be compared somewhat to Derrick J — how they each survived such traumas in the past, and arrived at such intelligent and helpful offerings — but to imply that someone’s presentations of scientific literature can trigger someone else’s suicide is pretty weak.

    Let’s say it again, “I hope we ALL stick around to see how this turns out, with compassionate options at the end, if needed. Just not now.”

    Suicide, stated most simply, is an outcome of clinical depression, not of scientific curiosity and learning.

    To say that learning science makes others feel like “not fighting” and “giving up” is projection onto others. Let them decide for themselves, and not try, in your own way, to manipulate their emotions when they come to face certain facts.

    Sure, it all pisses me off, too, and so I feel like “fighting” it, whatever that equates to, OK? (I suppose that, if I could, building a giant igloo over the Arctic would be “fighting it”, right?) “An’ de Tar Baby, he don’t say nuffin'”

    The inability, in this “I’m the decider” world, to grasp scientific trends in data, is — what? — sad? astonishing? understandable? I don’t know how to categorize it. I have my own denial points deep inside, and each of these people, like RE, touches upon them, so I value having their voices in my daily life. I just don’t see them putting as many pieces together as you usually do.

    I’m like a whole fucking United Nations inside, and these “delegates” get up to speak, confusingly enough, for ME. (Just remember, that everyone who posts online probably represents at least 10-100 people who are reading, and thinking, the same things.}

    But the whole “We just don’t know” is the stopping place for people who’ve never thought in Prob/Stats terminology (on which I’m quite rusty}, or the ratios of scientific/medical/psychological study conclusions (P <= .05) being enough to go forward with a report or a recommendation for action. Standard deviations (not possible for just this one experimental trial?} and all that.

    Lots of people who just "feel" so strongly that statistics or probabilities don't apply to their very-special lives sit at the one-armed bandits hour upon hour, to what result, may I ask?

    Or, like a jury being asked to convict or acquit based on a "reasonable doubt", and having to explain to one another just why they think their particular doubt is "reasonable". Only, in this case, you're entitled to your opinion on climate chaos, but not to a jury vote. Geophysical science gets that one vote. We just don't "know" what it is yet, but we've got a pretty damn good idea.

    "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit" just won't cut it for us this time.

    The longer curve is that all that methane got there, sometime, somehow, likely in another Great Extinction — of all the methane-utilizing creatures being overthrown by oxygen-breathers — and now all of their dead bodies, frozen across the Northern Hemisphere, are coming back to haunt us, released by our own hands (and gas pedals.)

    Sure, it's unfair, Paula (and posters below her, although I did stop after Brutus' well-reasoned contribution), unfair to you, you're not "Bad", you didn't do this, but it's just a 260 million year "rounding off" of life forms on this planet. The old "Big Picture", or the 7 blind men describing the elephant. Whatever.

    Of course, it's going to be too much to "get" all in one (year's? decade's? lifetime's?) sitting, but it is what it is. (God, I hate using cliches, but even that resistance has become cliche'd in me, so just once in awhile, please?!)

    There's no putting the methane back underground, under-ice, wherever. Once it's out, the only question is about estimates like Shakhova's and Semiletov being, hopefully, wildly off the mark, not how Paula feels about her sad, though recovering, life.

    The whole "we just don't know" is still pretty much, on the emotional level, linear thinking based on those gradually-rising carbon lines, the mental self-deception of straight lines ("oh, that's not so bad; I could get used to that"), and denial of the upward-arcing curve of methane release, in whatever potential quantity ultimately.

    The exact quantity and rate of release is the REAL "we just don't know", but the part of it we do know is enough to multiply out to a probable outcome. The rest is just Overkill (anyone remember nuclear overkill? How was that for a likely Death Sentence for humanity, somehow accepted by the Exceptional American nation? Been such bad boys for so long, we just can't see straight, can we?)

    I've never been up to the Arctic — has anyone else you know? I think that calls for listening to those who have. And their reports, such as the torrents of melt in Greenland, are just too scary to fully absorb as yet. Small doses at a time, for me, while I adjust toward Guy's recommended "quality living."

    So, yes, you've touched on some of it, as in the "we just don't know"s obligation to make some case — ANY case — for scenarios in which SOME humans outlast 1000 or 10,000 years of hostile climate, at the levels that will be produced (rapidly) by the methane or (longer term) by the carbon already being emitted. But they never do. They just throw mud, or blow smoke, and appeal to emotions soon to be obsolete.

    Write me a novel, a dumb short story even, about how that happens?!? They don't even do that. They just throw up some fog, some lawyer-without-a-case mud that "My client was home watching TV when it happened." Oh, thinks the juror; I'm supposed to go somewhere with that?

    The inability to hold two thoughts in mind simultaneously. The implication that Doubt, valid in scientific process, is somehow Proof. Because you happen to like that particular story better. (We've all watched the Bible-thumpers try to ride that pig, even without proposing any valid doubts of actual science — just appealing to the very IDEA of Doubt is as far as they ever get, trying to sound "scientific" to their ignorant flock. Hey, sheep are for shearing.)

    The Triumph of Propaganda in our lifetimes, is what we're seeing on so many stages.

    Maybe this is one of those "Ride your brother's camel to Mecca" moments? Just to help move the logical points forward (even though we sorta know the outcomes) you could help write Paula's (and RE's) stories for them? How does "we just don't know" get to 10,000 humans existing somewhere in 12,000 AD (or A-whatever, by then: A.M.? After Methane?)

    (Plus, provide the best critiques — points of questioning — of your own position that you think your critics should be making, if only they were capable of it. There are many ways to avoid having a battle of wits with… uh, never mind.)

    I don't want to defeat (or discourage} these people (or that part in me that vibes with them) — I want to defeat shoddy thinking, and move intelligence forward in these final years of its presence on this planet.

    Since there is so much stupidity, at levels so much grosser than what we see around any of our discussions, it's probably just an exercise for my own satisfaction. Those 35% of Jesus-thumpers will never stop driving SUVs until something physically stops them, not any advance of intelligence. is going to reach lost generations of them.

    The ultimate, or initial, requisite, of intelligence should have been immediate action to prevent melting, once the Methane was known of. When? 1970? Earlier?

    But Inertia, social or geophysical, is a Deadly Mistress. The Inertia of Stasis on the Social Conscience front, and gathering momentum on the others.

    Once IndCiv, or Arctic Melting, are underway, neither will concede to the other's momentum. They clash, and the outcome is written in the Great Extinctions of long before.

  48. mt Says:

    “two cheeks of the same ass.”
    Love it
    and around front are dicks or pussies.
    One fucks, the other gets fucked.

  49. CatCampion Says:

    In the controlled substances world, there are two key camps of players – the dealers (supply), and the users (demand). Which came first is difficult to say. Blame whomever you like, but one would not exist without the other. The dealer sets up shop, supplies addictive treats to the masses, causing them to grow increasingly dependent, and demand is firmly established.

    What is the solution? Should the dealers be shut down immediately, causing addicts to suffer, even die, from the effects of rapid withdrawal? Or, should the user actively work towards personal recovery, slowly reducing consumption, letting the dealer know they won’t be needed much longer? All the while, the addict can make herself useful, setting up a recovery center and aiding others’ recoveries, alerting others to the dangers of the narcotic, preparing herself for a life post-addiction. If every user did this, there would be no more dealer, no more product, no more problem.

    Et voila! The only “remedy” I see at this point for our affliction – addiction to Industrial Civilization. See you in Ecuador tomorrow, Guy & Pauline!

  50. BVinVT Says:

    Good rant, indeed. I hope anger and anguish are not taking over your thinking, Guy. Anyone who is aware will have a hard time balancing the frustration, anger and pain with the small acts of kindness and beauty we can still find if we look, but we must take care of ourselves while we are here, too.

    I try to live a radical life every day, but there is always so much more that could be done. Like Lidia, we shit in a bucket* and compost our “humanure”, which is entirely legal in VT (but not having a septic system is decidedly not), and we try to grow/raise more and more of our own food, drive less, use less, harvest and share wild edibles, etc…. I would love to be completely out of the industrialized civilization and spend all my time living off the land, but somehow the mortgage and taxes still need to be paid**, so I have one foot in two canoes at the moment.

    @ ulvfugl: GREAT tune — one of my favorites, but I had never seen the video — thank you. As I watched, a Google ad pops up for investors with portfolios of $500K or more with the heading “To investors who want to retire comfortably” from Fisher Investments…. OH, what incredible irony! Howz about “to investors who want to survive to retirement age” Watching a PBS documentary on-line the other day, I saw a Prudential ad at least 6 times in which people are asked how much they will need to save for their retirement, and ole “professor Dan Gilbert” has them all rolling out these blue ribbons out past 105 years old!!! Ya — just invest with Prudential, and you’ll live to 105…. sure you will. Hey — found it:

    http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7Txd/prudential-ribbon-experiment

    Ha-Ha, Dan, the joke’s on you. Good luck with that, you corporate shill!

    * not quite as gross as it sounds — details here: http://www.humanurehandbook.com

    ** for now, at least — this, too shall pass. If we could just get everyone to throw up their loans & mortgages at once, and escape from fractional reserve banking & compound interest, we might bring about the end of the current system a lot faster. It seems to be a problem of will and coordination.

  51. Henry Says:

    And maybe what I’m trying to say, or to respond to, in another way is that people are trying to “reverse engineer” their own personal narrative and fate. The people who throw up an objection to the NTE hypothesis rarely discuss it as a special case of the mass die-off likelihood. Even if they once crossed that line as Peak Oil comprehenders, they now seem to want to pull back from that “extreme” conclusion. Or at least they seem not to say much about it anymore.

    But the mass die-off is the booster stage, and NTE is the small but immense payload, if it’s actually onboard the rocket.

    Could it be that the problem is that no one — almost — is going to know as a person if humans went extinct or not, even if they don’t go. Likely, none among us. So what we are veiling with discussion of the larger and final-or-not doom is the consideration of our own small demise. The shadow on the wall, that we all must deal with, cloaked in various twisting themes.

    Get a bunch of people in a “room” to talk about death, and it quickly slides over to something, anything, else, while pretending to stay on track.

    The climate chaos is going to get the 99% of us who are dependent upon industrial agriculture, and the societal breakdown which will accompany its collapse. Hunter-gatherer anyone? Oh, I’ve got a handbook for that, here, somewhere.

    The other 1%? Will they be in Texas? In domes? In jungles, swamps, prairies, glacial melts? Eating bugs, microbes, sea slugs? Yikes!

    The last humans will be in some remote strange place none of us are yet familiar with, and so arguing with those who wish to argue with us is just pitching horseshoes in the dark. No one can even see the scorecard, let alone the targets.

    Our Dr. McPherson (and don’t you hate it when they pronounce his name McFEARson? Is that a Canadian thing or something?) is truly a “Guy For All Seasons” in that you take the data before you and make the moral decision to focus on a life of quality (Epicurus, anyone? whom we know something about because a few of his readers were buried in volcanic lava, thus preserving their libraries. Let ironies abound!) and let the future reveal itself.

    At one level, you really can’t say much more than that. And on another, because this is the topic of all topics, for all of human time, you can say just about anything. And so we do. (Which I do enjoy immensely, the more I open myself up — or am pried open — to what is happening.)

    Why is “Dust in the Wind” in my head today? I never particularly “believed” in that song, though it seems pretty much prescient now: “crumbles to the ground though we refuse to see…” Oh, those poet-artist-songwriters! They may be all we have, in the end.

    Did they paint those animal portraits on the cave walls while they were hunting them? Or after they’d hunted them to near-extinction, to bring them back?

    “Come gather ’round people…” “And it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard rain a-gonna fall.”

  52. artleads Says:

    Brandon Ross Chapman

    Re desalinization of water. You mention scaling up desalinization. Scaling up means civilization. But I don’t see why your “low-cost” desalinization can’t be done away from civilization (IC). Like all that surfeit of minds you mention getting into the act. Like kids in schools learning to do it. Even if it didn’t supply all a community’s water needs, it should help considerably.

    The alternative to civilization is small tribes not generally exceeding 200 individuals. There are still a fair number of aborigines and others that fit this description. But they aren’t critical to NTE exactly.

    Guy speaks about a rough two billion humans who are (or could be?) independent of IC. But that leaves around five billion who are dependent on IC, and that comprise the main problem.

    You also mention coal. That is in the context of “scaling up” for the IC which billions can or should attempt to escape.

    But short of some taxonomy of global resources (and a string of miracles) needed for the majority to exist in small groups, we are left with tptb of IC for the majority of humans and domesticated or non-wild animals. That is like contemplating a very large bomb whose fuse has been lit. Are you looking at ways to peel off communities that can or can be made to exist independently of IC? Otherwise, Templar’s advocacy of nuclear (which he himself describes as nuts)seems a little better than your coal.

    I do appreciate your call for creativity and effort. Everything to gain and nothing to lose afaics.

    http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/programs/population_and_sustainability/index.html

  53. paul Says:

    Cigarettes cause all kinds of health problems, this is well known. Yet people continue to smoke because they themselves haven’t fallen ill from it. This might not be a good analogy to climate change, but it does say something about the inability of humans to react until there is a direct threat that can be felt.

    Climate change isn’t real enough to most people in the industrialized world because it’s so abstract. The winter is still cold, the heat hasn’t yet caused massive crop failures. The grocery store is full of food, the AC still runs, I have a car with plenty of gas at the pumps, and honestly right now I have so many bills to pay, kids to raise, etc. etc. etc. that I don’t have time to worry about the future.

    The problem is that once the threat becomes all too real, it will be too late. Like finding you are in the last stages of cancer or the nuclear missles are on their way. The time for action has come and gone. Now it’s simply time enjoy life while it’s good. That’s my motto anyway.

  54. BenjaminTheDonkey Says:

    @ Robin, sorry my question was unclear, what I meant was do you think the universe is made out of consciousness or out of matter / energy? Thanks again.

    @ Haniel: Thanks! Yes, it all started with a limerick contest at LATOC, probably started by pamela, and, as we all know by now, the limerick form provided the exact stealth formula for getting past people’s denial so that by the time they were a staple in everybody’s vocabulary, the world was saved! Wait a minute, that can’t be right…oh yeah. I never came up with anything better to do.

    BTW, Haniel, iirc, you have been providing tech support to different doomer sites for years–thank you!
    ==

    Unhappy Thought

    The world is so full of things,
    We should all be as happy as kings;
    Enjoy now or be pissed,
    ‘Cause those things won’t exist
    After the fat lady sings.

  55. Wester Says:

    Brandon Ross Chapman, I would invite you to read Mark Lynas’ book “6 Degrees”. You can skip the boring 1-4 parts and go straight to 5 and 6. Why? Because 5 and 6 is where what you are implying are “extremist” organizations: Hadley Center, International Energy Agency and Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, say we are locked into. Those organizations are not moderate, they are conservative, with a sordid history of low-balling and missing the mark on everything they have said for the past 1/4 century. They may quible on whether it is 40-90 years before reaching 5 to 6, but the difference in these years makes no real qualitative difference regarding who is extreme and who is moderate.

  56. Brandon Ross Chapman Says:

    @Wester

    40-90 years is a very long time to figure things out. It only took, what, 5 or so years to develop the atom bomb, and put an astronaut on the mom after we focused our collective will as a nation?!

    I’m not seeing the issue.

    Do you think, if we crossed the 2c mark… and it was certain we’d be at 5-6 within maybe 30 or so years…. let’s say 15 years in the future… that we wouldn’t be able to advance our tech to travel to the by then, already discovered new earth?!

    Again, that 5-6c is WITHOUT geoengineering.

  57. Brandon Ross Chapman Says:

    hehe obviously *moon =/= mom.

    doom or no doom– be sure to say hi to mom’s this sunday :D

  58. Barry Bliss Says:

    Nice essay.

  59. CatCampion Says:

    http://www.undergroundhealth.com/right-farm-stripped-americans-michigan-criminalize-small-family-farms-chickens-goats-honey-bees

    Right to farm being stripped from Americans: Michigan to criminalize small family farms with chickens, goats, honey bees and more

    “In the latest stunning assault on Americans’ right to grow their own food, the freedom-crushing state of Michigan has ruled that local governments (cities, towns, counties) can now ban any animal they wish from small residential farms. The move opens the door to the mass criminalization of backyard farms and small, residential farming operations where people might keep a few goats or honey bees for food security. According to Michigan Public Radio, the ruling could ban all chickens, goats, honey bees and other animals from farms which have another residential house less than 250 feet away.”

  60. Ram Samudrala Says:

    This is what I’m progressing toward, what I felt was right even before I understood the problems with AGW. As I’ve kept mentioning I use the Arctic system as an indicator of how the more encompassing set of feedback loops will behave, and so if I can achieve these before that happens I’d be personally satisfied. I’m not doing it in response to the AGW threat, but because I feel it’s the right thing to do. As far as the rest of the world, the trajectory we’ve been on has been in motion even before I was born and I’m more interested in seeing how it plays out than trying to change it or influence it in any way. It’s not for me to make this call, even if I could (and I wouldn’t want that), and it is sad to me that there will be collateral damage involving other species.

    I believe the likelihood of human civilisation making it past this bump is low. It may be doable but if it is done, I think it will be different from what anyone has predicted thusfar. The system will find a new attractor that is more stable eventually. In my experience, all chaotic/complex systems tend to do this or they collapse or stagnate. In this view, the human and associated systems are a subset of the larger more complex earth system. From what I can see, we’re vessels for microbes and random offshoots of bacterial evolution, i.e., I think Gould was more right than wrong about evolution on life being the age of bacteria. I think this will continue on with or without us. The question is whether humans will actually go extinct or not in the next 100-200 years.

    Since I feel it is most likely too late anyway, what I do doesn’t really matter and I generally agree with the prescription of be kind and compassionate to everyone. People make mistakes, no one is perfect, and we can only work on getting better regardless of what is happening around us.

    So all that said, this is what I’m trying to archive:

    1. Reduce consumption of material goods. This is the hardest in many way. But I’ve made some good progress here. I could do more. I rarely purchase stuff for myself these days, that’s for sure.

    2. Do not eat meat or fish or animal products. Pretty much there. Still drink some milk and eat eggs.

    3. Move to a smaller place that we design ourselves and get this smaller place to run using only renewable energy sources, i.e., solar panels and also by growing our own food. Working on it.

    5. I can do what I love to do with a computer. That’s all I need. I could work with pencil and paper if it came down to it but I’m not giving up a computer unless everyone else gives it up.

    6. Reduce travel. I think the Internet is important as an evolutionary experiment in and of itself. It lets us do stuff without having to move around and so I work from home 90% or greater and if I can do a meeting electronically instead of in person (which is almost all meetings/talks) then I do that.

  61. Robin Datta Says:

    do you think the universe is made out of consciousness or out of matter / energy?

    Notice the primacy of the constructs called “you” and the “think”, and how “universe”, “consciousness”, “matter” and “energy”, also constructs, are dependent upon the “you” “think”.

    The question can only be satisfactorily answered by direct experience, and not through the intellectual manipulation of concepts / constructs such as “consciousness”.

  62. Grant Schreiber Says:

    Chapman asks “Do you think, if we crossed the 2c mark… and it was certain we’d be at 5-6 within maybe 30 or so years…. let’s say 15 years in the future… that we wouldn’t be able to advance our tech to travel to the by then, already discovered new earth?”

    Considering the US doesn’t even build rockets anymore — we buy them from Russia and that might lead to the problems as we keep slapping pointless sanctions on them — it wouldn’t be a US lead mission to New Earth.

    But even if we were fully committed to space travel, to reach New Earth would require a generational ship, far beyond our skills. You would need a craft that could leave the solar system, travel for 100s of years and hope that once they finally arrived at New Earth, it would be a viable planet. Faster than Light travel cannot happen. Wormhole jumping into hyper-drive might be possible, but we’re a long way from any wormholes too. Getting to the moon is relatively easy and we devoted a far amount of time and effort into reaching that goal. Getting to New Earth…. well, might as well try to hold your breath for a day or two to see what happens.

    Chapman also mentions “Again, that 5-6c is WITHOUT geoengineering.”

    But we’re Geo engineering the planet RIGHT NOW, and have been for almost 200 years. That’s why there’s so much CO2 out there. We’ve been pushing it into the atmosphere and suddenly realize that was a bad idea. The idea of somehow “correcting” the excess of CO2 with tons of sulfides to mask the planet and cool it down will be done for one reason only: to burn more carbon fuels. Geo engineering is like pouring gasoline over yourself to cool your body down in a room that is on fire. It’s a terrible idea.

  63. OzMan Says:

    CatCampion

    Yer take away a woman’s right to run some chickens, then thems fightin words.
    All I can say is what Alduous Huxley said so long ago…..

    the totalitarian situation in the near future will be significantly different than those of the past. People will willing trade their freedoms for security( or the perception of security). George Orwell also proposed a state of perpetual war, ever shifting alliances notwithstanding, was a main instrument in creating fear that requires a ‘solution’ The latest iteration of the ‘Robocop’ scenario imagines clearly where drone warfare and population pacification…err…protection is possibly headed.

    But to make chicken husbandry for ordinary folk illegal? That is a line in the sand in my book.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cluck-True-Story-Chickens-Cinema/dp/0907080154

    How much can people take in the frog chamber before they hop out? Ironically some of the people affected by the new laws there have made some leaps out, only to be bush-wacked by city lawyers.

    OAN

    This looks promising…

    ‘Energy tower for producing electricity set for Arizona’

    http://phys.org/news/2014-05-energy-tower-electricity-arizona.html

    I say promising not because it might solve the climate change problems, but just because it looks like it might have worked for some in places.

    Also, if Lloyds are getting smart on the costs of climate change to the balance sheet, a sea change in commerce-land might just come…but oh, we’re out of time there too:

    ‘Catastrophe Modelling and Climate Change’

    http://www.lloyds.com/the-market/tools-and-resources/research/exposure-management/emerging-risks/emerging-risk-reports/climate/catastrophe-modelling-and-climate-change

    “The potential for climate change to drive changes in the severity and likelihood of extreme weather events could have implications for the accuracy of natural catastrophe models. This report examines whether and how catastrophe models account for climate change through a series of case studies provided by a range of academic and commercial model providers.”

    I love this ‘abstract speak phrase….
    “….extreme weather events could have implications for the accuracy of natural catastrophe models.”

    Some laughs are guilty ones, or perhaps shame is a better word.

    Also some news from down home Afraidia on the changes in the solar energy market….

    ‘UBS: Australian households could go off-grid by 2018′

    http://reneweconomy.com.au/2014/ubs-australian-households-go-grid-2018

    And in case you need a sort of independent (ABC), heads-up on the energy market changes in Afraidia over the last decade, and you do if you want to know why confumers have paid over double the rate for efectricity in the last 5 years…the deliberate rigging of infrastructure asset returns:

    ‘The price of power’

    ‘http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/backgroundbriefing/2014-04-27/5406022′

    ” From the coal-fired power station point of view, you couldn’t have a worse competitor, because solar is at its best when the market is at its most profitable.
    Richard Denniss, executive director of the Australia Institute”

    And finally this:

    ‘Australia’s conservative politicians railing against renewables’

    http://reneweconomy.com.au/2014/australias-conservative-politicians-railing-against-renewables-36034

    Ho Hum.

  64. Blufusion Says:

    I like all these comments. But as far as I’m concerned . I know Pauline and I have talked to GUY. Me I’m terminal anyway to a point. I can only life my life in my little spot of the Universe. I hope someone does make a difference. But for me I haven’t given up nor have I given out. I just accept the FACT that Death is the eventuality we all face. For me and my Medical problems I have I got through the worst and now able to live LIFE again. But I could die tomorrow or whenever. But I’m not wasting any energy on that thought. It’s a waste of time. Time I don’t have to spare! I hope and pray that I live long enough to finish and do what I have and want to do before the Final Curtain. This is a Good Conversation. I support Pauline and she knows I do and we have talked about my support and her goal. But as for me and my little space in this equation. Who the hell wants to live in a World like We,They You are predicting. Being selfish this time. I will live life to it fullest before either the Giant Collapse of Death. That won’t happen for me. But Being selfish this Time. I will continue to live life to it’s fullest. I can either worry from now till the end of what may come or not come. I wasted 48 years of doing that. I used to worry about others and things I could not do anything about I have been given a 2nd chance at living. For me I plan on doing that and when the END comes I am prepared.

  65. Anthony Says:

    I get a kick out of people making statements such as

    andyuk Says:
    May 9th, 2014 at 6:15 am

    ” The official story of 9/11 violates the Laws of Thermodynamics, yet few people I know are willing to question the official narrative.”

    i generally agree with guy. . .”

    Replace “Guy” with “the laws of thermodynamics” or “the laws of nature” and that is really what they are saying. From there we get idiotic statements like:

    “What truly needs to happen? We need to do everything necessary to keep civilization afloat long enough to:

    1. Find a new suitable earth.

    2. Develop the tech to get there.

    3. Learn from our mistakes here, and not fark it all up as easily.

    I don’t accept that this isn’t attainable, and I don’t understand someone who would give up on technology to “save the planet” that doesn’t need saving.

  66. Anthony Says:

    I get a kick out of people making statements such as

    andyuk Says:
    May 9th, 2014 at 6:15 am

    ” The official story of 9/11 violates the Laws of Thermodynamics, yet few people I know are willing to question the official narrative.”

    i generally agree with guy. . .”

    Replace “Guy” with “the laws of thermodynamics” or “the laws of nature” and that is really what they are saying. From there we get idiotic statements like:

    “What truly needs to happen? We need to do everything necessary to keep civilization afloat long enough to:

    1. Find a new suitable earth.

    2. Develop the tech to get there.

    3. Learn from our mistakes here, and not fark it all up as easily.

    I don’t accept that this isn’t attainable, and I don’t understand someone who would give up on technology to “save the planet” that doesn’t need saving.”

    Full retard from the troll community for sure.

    Guy rightfully could be called Dr. McFearsome”. Hahaha!

  67. BenjaminTheDonkey Says:

    Thanks, Robin.
    ==

    Brandon Ross Chapman says: “It only took, what, 5 or so years to develop the atom bomb….”

    Science

    Belief without facts for reliance
    Is reality noncompliance;
    But it’s hard, I assume,
    To evaluate doom
    Without basic knowledge of science.
    ==

    Tipping Point

    Time doesn’t flow in reverse,
    And we haven’t much left to disburse;
    Despite our regrets,
    Now’s as good as it gets:
    From here on, things keep getting worse.

  68. Wester Says:

    @steve — you are spot on with your observations about the comments from the pampered, obscenely privileged 1st worlders.
    Seconded strongly by me.

    Following is what will probably be my final post at Collapse of Industrial Civilization which has in the course of a few weeks here, devolved into a joke.

    “As I have said before, I haven’t lived in the States for well over a decade because I see the social and psychological environment as abusive, traumatizing, and toxic. Practically every American I know is laboring under some sort of psychosis which requires preservation of status and privilege through systematic rationalization, deeply irrational religious practices, and/or non-stop high power psychological medication

    Frankly, as an American, I am appalled. Even more so by the fact that it is the Americans who are most responsible and most complicit with the climate holocaust. And who also have the most power and most potential to effect some change in the situation, but conveniently won’t do anything to stop it. I am, by now, well versed in all the excuses.”

    I have heard all the self-serving, privilege preserving rationalizations ad nauseum, which in my estimation amount to straight Calvinist theology. Meaning that Humanity is unutterably corrupt (sinful) therefore all we, the most privileged and wealthy persons to ever live in the history of the Earth, can and should just sit around and have a good wank over the climate situation. And any questioning of this so-called gospel is heresy. Spare me the grief counseling, OK?

    Uhm-hmmm……

  69. mo flow Says:

    Dear steve & Wester Show –

    I am a long time fan, but I confess to being confused about the latest episode. can you help me understand the plot?

    I saw you both dancing, but that was such a strange polka, I’m wondering if some evil leprechaun might have slipped some nasty shrooms in my beer-swill, and instead of seeing your show, I took a psychotic little side trip into total weirdsville.

    WAIT….! I hear some vapid, rankly narcissistic cackling coming from under the couch… aarrgh! begone, vile leprechaun! I smite thee with my TV remote! you shall not disturb my mindless entitled pontificating meanly, whilst I am drinking and laughing on the steps of Treblinka!

    .
    .
    .

    we now return you to our regularly scheduled program back on planet Earth.

    if you are feeling appalled, please press 1.

    if you are feeling like a privileged white male upper middle class psychotic American, please press 666 and throw your phone at a starving third world citizen.

    if you are suffering from short term memory loss, please hang up and and try your call again later.

    .
    .
    .

    (fades to black. sound of distant evil narcissistic leprechaun cackling.)

    .
    .
    .

    now, time to get back to my obscene privileges! it’s Friday night man. the Calvinist wolves are coming out to play. snort, chortle.

  70. Robin Datta Says:

    Lest the prior answer seems like vacillation, the concept / construct called “consciousness” is entirely dependent on and subordinate to spacetime and matter+energy. No question about it.

  71. pat Says:

    three ways to proceed:

    1) follow Ram Samudrala’s prescription (May 9 at 6:17). sounds like an exercise in futility.

    2) Join the Resistance – actively resist IC in any way possible. sounds like a prescription for jail time.

    3) Join TPTB and consume consume consume. sounds like a lot of bad days at the office.

    Either way, it doesn’t matter – and, at least you know it doesn’t matter and you will be free of the stress of everyday living…

    If you were born a rabbit, you are prey. But does the rabbit despair? No. Does the rabbit join The Resistance and make war on foxes and coyotes? No. The rabbit eats grass – as much as he can!

    I quit my jobs – got on Medicaid and food stamps – lost my home to foreclosure and voluntarily surrendered my vehicle to the finance company. Sold most of my possessions. Radical enough for you?

    I was hoping that collapse would happen before all of this – guess I misunderstood the meaning of “Near-Term.”

    Just sittin’ on this runaway train, staring out the window.

    The Voluntary Extinction Movement
    Thou shalt not procreate.

    The Church of Euthanasia
    Save the planet, kill yourself.

  72. OzMan Says:

    Tom

    Ooops…
    Sorry that Arizona tower link was yours above… lost in the maze. Apologies.

  73. Godofredo Aravena Says:

    What can we do?
    Well, we have no future.
    But we have to transmit our learnings to our children.
    Our children like nobody else, build a world totally based on what we teach them. Their world is just like we see it. And they have a chance to do what we will no be able to.
    WE have to forget about ourselves, and concentrate in our children, giving them the tools to build a new world, above whatever may survive.
    Children is such a rare word here.

  74. lark Says:

    Homage to Benjamin the Donkey

    There are some that decry negativity,
    And say, ‘Positive’s all that I’ll ever be!’
    But I prefer truth,
    And so for what it’s worth,
    Guy, please keep piling on the reality.

    “What have I done recently that runs counter to the status quo?”

    Made a meal – apparently cooking from scratch has become almost a radical act these days – that included roasted potatoes and parsnips, the spuds stored in our cold cellars since last fall and the parsnips recently dug from the garden where they’ve been sitting under snow all winter; also some tasty wild-picked dandelion green mixed with spinach frozen from the garden last fall, and a piece of codfish (thank you ocean).

    The same cold cellar still hold carrots – over six months in storage and still crisp and sweet – and Jerusalem artichokes. We almost never buy a vegetable anymore and we eat a lot of veg. I garden and squirrel away and can (tomatoes only). I eat no sugar, very anti-status-quo, that one.

    I will never fly again and haven’t for 6 or 7 years now (but have done more than my fair share in the past).

    I drive roughly 4 or 5 hours total a week, at least one of those trips to visit the elderly Mom of my (same-sex) partner in a nursing home, where I go to play music once a month. Never venture farther than 1.5 hrs. drive from home (nearest largish town for necessary supplies maybe once a month).

    Except for shoes, I never buy new clothes anymore.

    More radicalism: I seldom if ever ‘take offence’ anymore and don’t mind what other think of me; and try my damnedest to accept people for who and where they are, without letting them ‘get away’ with saying or doing nasty shit, if I’m able to speak up or confront in some way.

    I hate Christmas (and all other ‘holidays’) and go nowhere, buy nothing, do nothing special – usually go for a solitary walk that day (and almost every day), and then listen with (admittedly smug) satisfaction to the ‘horror stories’ and ‘nightmares’ of masses of people stuck at airports, trying to ‘get home for the holidays’ during the coldest, darkest, snowiest time of the year.

    ‘nuf for now

  75. kevin moore Says:

    Since there are still many people who are still uninformed about 9/11 and still do not recognise that it was an inside job:

  76. ulvfugl Says:

    Thanks for posting that video, kevin. Seems convincing to me.

    This ?

    The Money Master and Mastermind of the 911 Terror Attack

    http://factsnotfairies.blogspot.co.uk/2008/04/money-master-and-mastermind-of-911.html

    Secret units within the ‘Five Eyes” global spying network engage in covert online operations that aim to invade, deceive, and control online communities and individuals through the spread of false information and use of ingenious social-science tactics.

    http://rt.com/news/five-eyes-online-manipulation-deception-564/

  77. Jeff S. Says:

    Bravo, Guy, Great essay!!! So good to see someone else recognize the use of truth, as in “truthers” as an epithet, is Orwellian in the extreme. Yep, how dare you privilege the laws of thermodynamics over the official story?:-)

  78. Sabine Says:

    @lark

    All of it spoken from my heart too.
    Jerusalem artichokes, I know a spot where they grow wild here (England), probably where they once grew in a garden. My garden is too small to grow those towering plants, so I was very pleased to discover them. I also store them for the winter. In our house, we call them “fartichokes”. They are also very nice raw in salads or grated over kale etc.(beetroot is nice for that too).

    Christmas and holidays: My sentiments are the same, and I also think (smugly) that it serves people right when they get stuck at airports etc Sheeple must do what everybody else does.

    The same goes for all holidays. However, I always have my real Christmas tree, holly and ivy. My tree is decorated with many things that are decades old, some going back to my grandmothers. I did have a good time at Christmas in Germany when I was a child, and I still find a real German Christmas tree with candles magical. Christmas now, the commercial American version which seems to have conquered the world is really a horrible aberration.

    The original Christmas tree is a pagan tree of live, originally just decorated with apples (now baubles) and nuts, often wrapped in gold foil, and candles. (Apples and nuts were store for the winter)Later, spun sugar and glass versions of these decorations were also used.
    To me, a real Christmas tree is still an important symbol of renewal, celebrating the winter solstice, with its candles heralding the coming light and longing for the flowering spring trees. So yes, a Christmas tree at that dark time of the year makes me feel good and connected, hoping for another spring, always just one at a time. The only hope I allow myself from year to year.

  79. Martin Says:

    lark,

    If you eat Jerusalem artichokes, I say you WILL fly again. :)

  80. andyuk Says:

    kevin, im not watching that near 2 hour film. it would be like watching ‘the best global warming denialist documentary ever’, or ‘the best fake moon landing documentary ever’. why would i do that? you can polish a turd but its still a turd. the thing is, ive already read most of the 9/11 conspiracy ideas and seen the replies to them, and come to a conclusion. i;m already informed, and its been debunked, at least to my satisfaction. not only intellectually, but i also tend to rely on instinct. being called ‘a conspiracy’ by general consensus should put anyone with functioning critical thinking skills on high alert.

    btw, i hope you continue posting on collapse of civilization as you usually hit the nail on the head when on the main topic of conversation. but conspiracy theories are called conspiracy theories for a reason. i suggest you read more of the debunking sites as they do make a heck of alot more sense than the conspiracy ideas.

  81. ulvfugl Says:

    @ andyuk

    …but conspiracy theories are called conspiracy theories for a reason.

    Woohooo, that’s some smart reasoning !

    Yes, the term was invented by the CIA to discredit anyone who questioned their nefarious schemes, particularly their cover ups, it was first used against anyone who questioned the official story re the Kennedy assassinations.

    Everybody knows that David Icke is a crackpot and a conspiracy theorist, don’t they. Because he’s been saying for years that the Thatcher government and the BBC were infested with paedophiles.

    Well, turned out it was all TRUE, didn’t it. Like so many other ‘conspiracy theories’.

    So, sorry, andyuk, your feeble attempt to smear people with a meaningless label to discredit them, when you are too lazy to discuss the evidence, doesn’t really work here, does it. You’ll have to do better if you want to be taken seriously.

    http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/07/02/28/the-9-most-shocking-conspiracy-theories-that-turned-out-to-be-true.htm

  82. Tom Says:

    There goes Greenland’s largest ice sheet:

    https://robertscribbler.wordpress.com/2014/05/09/constant-arctic-heatwave-sends-worlds-largest-ice-cap-hurtling-seaward/#comments

    Constant Arctic Heatwave Sends World’s Largest Ice Cap Hurtling Seaward

    Svalbard. Until lately, a little-known locale situated between the previously frigid extreme North Atlantic and the Arctic Ocean about 500 miles east of Greenland. Typically a frozen island Archipelago, this pristine and sparsely inhabited redoubt has, over the past few years been ground zero for the assaults of an ongoing and extreme polar heat amplification.

    During winters, temperatures in Svalbard are generally, well, Arctic. But in recent years abnormal winter warmth featuring temperatures ten, twenty, even thirty degrees above 20th century averages have been experienced with increasing frequency. This year, during one of the warmest winters on record for the Arctic, local Svalbard temperatures rocketed to as much as 40 degrees F above the usual range and for extended periods remained in the range of +20 to +30 F positive anomaly.

    For all of February of 2014, the average temperature for this Arctic island chain was -1 C (about 30 F), a full 15 degrees C above average and a period that featured many readings at or above freezing. It was an unprecedented event for an island that features one of the largest ice caps on Earth.

    Austfonna, Svalbard’s Ice Giant, Takes a Fall

    Austfonna sprawls across the northeast section of Nordaustlandet, one of Svalbard’s many islands. The ice cap covers fully 8,000 square miles and features an ice dome pinnacle looming 750 meters high making it the largest of its ilk. Though not as grand as the great ice sheets of Greenland or West Antarctica, Austfonna still contains an immense amount of water. Less stable than ice sheets, deteriorating ice caps currently contribute to almost 50% of global sea level rise.

    But Austfonna, the largest of these, was thought to be somewhat insulated from the insults plaguing most of the world’s ice caps. Its far northern and previously frigid location at Svalbard made it less vulnerable. But that was before sea ice loss opened the gates to an ongoing and ever-increasing assault of warm winds.

    Now, according to findings made by the European Space Agency’s (ESA) Sentinel 1 Spacecraft, it appears that the ongoing assault of heat has at last destabilized the great Austfonna. For according to radar altimetry readings, the pace of the ice cap’s motion toward the Barents Sea has, over the past three years, accelerated to an extraordinary speed ten times more rapid than its previous pace (Sentinel’s findings are due to be published soon in a prominent scientific journal).

    [read the rest]

    @ kevin moore: I see what you mean now regarding “redundant.” Mike just won’t let it go – his latest post goes right back to “conspiracy theory debunking” (conflating climate change denial with 9-11) which I want no parts of, so i’ll wait until he starts a thread that is along the lines of reality before commenting again.

    ____________

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22229682.400-world-is-unprepared-for-major-el-nino-later-this-year.html#.U207U62Sy2E

    World is unprepared for major El Niño later this year

    Wild weather is coming in 2014, with floods, storms and droughts expected around the Pacific, but little is being done to protect the people on the front line

    THE weather is preparing to go wild, and will wreak havoc and death around the globe later this year. An El Niño, a splurge of warm water in the Pacific Ocean, is coming. It will unleash floods in the Americas, while South-East Asia and Australia face drought. Yet little is being done to address these consequences.

    “The tropical climate system is primed for a big El Niño,” says Axel Timmermann of the University of Hawaii in Honolulu (see diagram).

    An El Niño begins when warm water near Indonesia spreads eastwards and rises to the surface of the Pacific. The warm water carries rain with it, so El Niño takes rain from Asia and Australia and dumps it on the Americas (see “Rising waters”).

    The effects can be deadly. A big El Niño in 1997-98 killed 20,000 people and caused almost $97 billion of damage.

    Meteorologists contacted by New Scientist all expect an El Niño at the end of this year. And it looks like a big one, says Wenju Cai of CSIRO, Australia’s national research agency, in Melbourne. The more heat in the Pacific, the bigger the El Niño, and right now, 150 metres below the surface, a ball of warm water is crossing that ocean. “It’s huge,” says Cai.

    Yet official forecasts remain cautious. As recently as 5 May, the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration only said the odds of an El Niño would exceed 50 per cent this year.

    Most El Niño researchers say forecasters are being too conservative. “One thing I hear over and over again is ‘we do not want to create a panic’,” says Timmermann. There is a reason: forecasting a big El Niño would cause a spike in food prices. “But it may be better to have this reaction at an early stage, when farmers can still adapt, rather than later.”

    [there’s more]

  83. kevin moore Says:

    andyuk.

    That is called Constructed Ignorance.

    You make a conscious choice to remain uninformed.

    A large percentage of people trapped in the Matrix suffer from Constructed Ignorance.

    There is no cure for Constructed Ignorance, other than death.

  84. kevin moore Says:

    andyuk.

    ‘you usually hit the nail on the head when on the main topic of conversation’ Thanks for the compliment. Perhaps that is because I am extremely well informed and think thongs through logically.

    I trust you see the irony of what you have written.

    Since Mike Lees has taken to deliberately removing or blocking comments that expound truths he does not want discussed, his website no longer any credibility.

    Why would I waste my time typing comments just to have them blocked by that cretin with the big ego and so little knowledge?

    Therefore I have no intention of return9ng to Collapse of Industrial Civilisation. After all Mike Lee has repeatedly demonstrated that he is:

    ignorant
    stupid
    stubborn
    and insulting

    No thanks to any more of that crap.

    The world is full of people who are ignorant, stupid, stubborn and insulting; after we have given them the opportunity to become informed and they then spit in our faces we walk away

  85. Bob S. Says:

    2 hour videos may be entertaining or educational, however all that is needed to disprove the official 911 story is a basic understanding of physics and 2 minutes of critical thinking.

    Building 7 fell at absolute freefall for 2.5 seconds or about 100ft. This can only mean it met 0 resistance for 100ft.

    Iron spheres in abundance in WTC dust proves temperatures hot enough to melt iron was achieved. Impossible in a kerosene fire and gravitational collapse.

  86. kevin moore Says:

    Sorry for three in a row.

    andyuk said:’i suggest you read more of the debunking sites’

    It is not possible to debunk the laws of mathematics, chemistry and physics. Those are what I usually base my assessments of matters such as 9/11 on.

  87. wildwoman Says:

    CatCampion, I live in Michigan and have seen that story all over the place. My best guess is that it’s a trial balloon. It is a recommendation by an agency (letters escape me). I think lawmakers are watching to see the reaction.

    Our state lawmakers are also laboring to change the definition of property owners. They are converting it to owners of agricultural property.

    Near as I can tell, the oil and gas boys are behind it. Michigan is the next state to be fracked into oblivion, and they want some legal means for their land grabs.

    ALEC has been very busy in my state and are quickly changing it into one that is mentioned in the same breath as Texas, Florida, Oklahoma….

  88. Grant Schreiber Says:

    “The original Christmas tree is a pagan tree of live, originally just decorated with apples (now baubles) and nuts, often wrapped in gold foil, and candles. (Apples and nuts were store for the winter)Later, spun sugar and glass versions of these decorations were also used.”

    The concept of hanging things from trees comes from the Norse myth of Odin who after plucking out his eye and tossing into the well of knowledge, hanged himself for three days to understand this new knowledge. Odin, Father of the Gods, Wanderer, and God of Hanged Men was honored by having human sacrifices hung from oaks and elms.

    Of course, half-blind and hanged, Odin still does nothing to prevent the death of Balder, the torture of Loki and the breaking of sacred vows that bring about Ragnarok, the end of Asgardian world.

  89. Mass Says:

    Great piece. I am glad you dropped the qualifier ‘Industrial’ civilization.

  90. andyuk Says:

    “That is called Constructed Ignorance.

    You make a conscious choice to remain uninformed. ”

    oh come on, i can just throw that back at you. how many debunking sites do you read. how open minded are you to their arguments, and that YOU might be wrong. dont forget there are some pretty serious skeptics on the anti conspiracy side and i dont think their opinion can be dismissed easily. just because i dont want to watch a 2 hour documentary (and you must admit its quite an investment in time when you already think a topic is meritless) does not mean i dont have a sufficiently open mind to understand the salient points when presented in an easily digested form. don’t forget i said i am familiar with the ideas already. but as a gesture of goodwill (and to prove im open minded) i will watch the film. if im impressed by its content i will let you know. but i dont suppose you will alter your opinion one iota when i say im not impressed.

  91. Tom Says:

    Have you ever felt that you’re fluorescing (similar to “goose flesh” but more mental/psychic – goes up the back of the neck and “explodes” through the mind & body, out in all directions) – like dissolving or “fizzing” out for a time? What is that?

  92. Martin Says:

    Kevin Moore,

    Why did the twin towers have to come down at all? It’s surplus to requirements. If they hadn’t come down, no one would have said the spectacle was incomplete or scratched their heads wondering why they hadn’t.

    The US government does not need to stage a spectacle to get what it wants at home or abroad. As William Blum has shown in excruciating detail, the rogue state pretty much does what it likes and has done for a very long time.

    If a spectacle was a vital necessity, two jetliners flying very fast one after the other into two skyscrapers at the heart of empire was spectacle enough.

    Kevin, what is to your mind a cogent reason why the perpetrators of 911 took the enormous risk of wiring the buildings to blow? A cogent and convincing reason, please.

  93. andyuk Says:

    i expect if they hadn’t collapsed there would have been a conspiracy theory as to why not. the same types would come out of the woodwork claiming they wanted a dramatic spectacle to get worldwide support for invasion of wherever, without the cost of actually destroying the towers completely. they would say that they had re-enforced the columns or put extra fire protection in,( which they had craftily removed afterwards of course so nobody suspected anything lol)

  94. ugotstahwonder Says:

    Keep forgetting that my posts on the forum don’t post here. Really got some great laughs of appreciation reading many of the personal sentiments here. I am grateful, as it’s true, most Americans are in deep denial and rationalization and it’s incredibly alienating to not go along with that f’ing madness.

    Regarding 9/11, I would suggest that everyone at this point realize the likelihood is low that anyone in either camp (accepting of the official story or not) will change camps and each camp will continue to see the other as hopeless. Stop demanding explanations of one another and wasting each other’s time as if the other might yet change. In the infamous words of G W Bush, Sr., “not gonna happen”.

    Thanks for the laughs and release, y’all. Nice change of pace from watching the idiot parade.

    Hope this doesn’t post twice – doh!

  95. Sabine Says:

    @Grant Schreiber

    I always like your posts and, of course, your sense of humour but please let me explain:

    I know about the Norse myth of Odin hanging in the ash tree. I’ve still got an old Edda which belonged to my grandfather. It has a very gruesome drawing of that scene and is printed in Gothic script. I was fascinated by that drawing as a child.

    Here, I was just talking about the German Christmas tree, albeit a romantic interpretation of the tree of life also symbolizing fertility (evergreen).
    Anyway, you know of course that the German tribes worshipped the same gods and goddesses. Odin = Wotan/Wodan, Thor = Donnar, most of the others are the same in the Norse and the German dialects.

    Must be because I’m a woman that the “romantic” interpretation appeals to me and that’s what I see in a Christmas tree. Sorry.

    By the way, the ash trees are dying all over Northern Europe. Where will Odin hang now?

  96. andyuk Says:

    ok kevin, ive watched the first 10 minutes of the film and i honestly have to say i disagree with its core premise; which is that because the buildings were designed to withstand the impact of a plane crash, (which is probably true, and certainly suggested by the evidence!), this ALSO means that they were designed to withstand any subsequent fire damage to the structure. it assumes that if they didn’t then it follows they must have been demolished deliberately. but that is conflating two completely different things. being designed to structurally survive the impact from a plane crash is probably just a secondary outcome of a skyscraper being structurally sound. after all they have to be extremely rigid to withstand normal loads. its ordinary and entirely reasonable practice to design buildings that allow people reasonable time to escape fires, but not to make them so they never eventually fall down when they burn. it would probably be impossible to build such a thing. at this point in the film, if it was a proper scientific analysis, and not one sided denialist propaganda, i would have expected a variety of qualified experts to properly explore both sides of the argument with some intellectual rigor. but here, only one side of the argument was given, and extremely briefly at that. it was just taken for granted that this point was a huge problem for the conventional version of events. i’m used to bbc science documentaries, like horizon and i have to say there is a stark difference between those programs and this documentary. call me unconvinced so far.

  97. ulvfugl Says:

    @ andyuk

    … this ALSO means that they were designed to withstand any subsequent fire damage to the structure. it assumes that if they didn’t then it follows they must have been demolished deliberately. but that is conflating two completely different things. being designed to structurally survive the impact from a plane crash is probably just a secondary outcome of a skyscraper being structurally sound. after all they have to be extremely rigid to withstand normal loads. its ordinary and entirely reasonable practice to design buildings that allow people reasonable time to escape fires, but not to make them so they never eventually fall down when they burn.

    I assume you have someone who helps you to put your clothes on in the morning, andy ?

    This is drivel.

    Of course they were designed to withstand being hit by planes. And being hit by high winds. And catching fire.

    And NO they were not ‘extremely rigid’, they were designed to be flexible, so that they would bend, architects and engineers are not the fools you assume them to be.

    ‘Eventually fall down when they burn’ ?

    There has never been a case of a steel frame sky scraper falling down because it burned. NOT ONE. NOT NEVER EVER. NOT IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.

    It has never happened, because fires do not get hot enough to melt the steel sufficiently, or even bend it. Certainly not piddling little fires from jet fuel kerosene that only burns at 700 deg.

    So it seems to me you’re way out of your depth here, and not just too lazy to watch the video, but too dumb to evaluate simple info.

    @ Martin

    Why don’t you investigate YOURSELF and answer your own question ?

    As I recall, they would have to be demolished anyway, something about the aluminium cladding starting to fall off, which would have cost a lot, so they got sold cheap to the L. S. guy, who insured them against a terrorist attack, and so made a lot of money, and the other bonus was that all the awkward stuff in Building 7 got conveniently disappeared, along with all the gold in the basement of the towers, of course which had vanished.

    It was hitting many birds with one stone. To accomplish what they wanted needed a really big event to distract world attention. When people are in shock they accept the first answer that satisfies their need to have an answer, because the rational mind is switched off. That’s the answer that sticks. That’s why so many people still believe the crap that they swallowed off the TV in the first few weeks.

    They sorted out their little financial problem at the Pentagon, got an excuse to attack Afghanistan and Iraq, got rid of the Enron accounts, killed some people they didn’t like in certain firms in the towers, etc, etc.

  98. Grant Schreiber Says:

    Sabine: Odin is hanging out with the other forgotten gods having an okay time being reborn in movies and comic books. So he’s doing better than most.

    I like the Norse myths because even the gods are doomed from the start.
    They know these very actions will destroy them, but do it anyway.

    Sound familiar?

  99. thestormcrow Says:

    Thanks Guy! I really enjoyed your essay and all of the word play as well.

    You said” the Age of Expansion has been replaced with the Age of Contraction. The Age of Conquest has nearly reached its overdue end.”

    I’d like to add The “Age of Consent” to your list(which,unfortunately is in full gear. Most people appear perfectly pleased to embrace whatever IC dishes out next).

    I also have a general comment on the 911 Conspiracy Theory discussion that goes back and forth amongst people (not just on this site).

    Regarding 911 – If you believe that a group of people from a country other that the United States:

    1)Decided to do something together without telling anyone else.

    2)Made a detailed plan on how to do it without telling anyone else.

    3)Raised alot of money to support that plan without telling anyone
    else.

    4)Trained people to implement that plan without telling anyone else.

    5)Implemented the plan without telling anyone else.

    Then you are a believer in Conspiracies.

    Defintion from Wiki :

    A conspiracy theory is an explanatory proposition that accuses two or more persons, a group, or an organization of having caused or covered up, through secret planning and deliberate action, an illegal or harmful event or situation.[1][2][3]

    So if you believe in the “official” 911 version that people plotted together, then you, by default believe in conspiracies. Further,since,
    no one has all the facts,even the official version would have to be a theory of sorts.

    So take heart all , for whatever our beliefs, We’re probably all Conspiracy Theorists! (Unless,of course,you believe that you have ALL the FACTS.Then you would be a “Conspiracy Factualist!).

  100. BenjaminTheDonkey Says:

    Robin Datta says: “…the concept / construct called “consciousness” is entirely dependent on and subordinate to spacetime and matter+energy.”

    Whew. THAT’S what I wanted to hear! :)
    ==

    @ lark: Haha thanks!
    lark says:

    “There are some that decry negativity,
    And say, ‘Positive’s all that I’ll ever be!’
    But I prefer truth,
    And so for what it’s worth,
    Guy, please keep piling on the reality.”

    Yes! As far as I can tell, nobody else is in the world is putting it out there like Guy! Well done, sir!
    ==

    9/11 Litmus

    It’s true, disagreement is strong,
    But I’m sure we can all get along:
    With poo going to splatter,
    It doesn’t much matter,
    So why not admit that you’re wrong?


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