In Pennsylvania, Indigenous Mineral Act Threatens Safety and Cleanliness of College Campuses

by Nadia Jones

It looks as though Pennsylvania has joined Ohio, Texas and West Virginia, as the fourth state that will lease land owned by the State System of High Education for the extraction of coal, oil, natural gas, coal bed methane and limestone. The law was signed by Pennsylvania Governor Tom Corbett on October 9 and became effective immediately.
It is believed that the law was enacted to help offset the funding woes effecting Pennsylvania’s State System of Higher Education, which, according to an article by Mother Jones, experienced an 18 percent budget cut in 2011. The law states that payments derived from land owned by the State System of Higher Education should be allocated as follows:

– 50% goes to the university where the resources were extracted and should be used for deferred maintenance projects or energy efficiency or energy cost-saving improvements.
– 35% goes to the State System of Higher Education for distribution among those universities where no resources have been leased or extracted and can only be used for deferred maintenance projects or energy efficiency or energy cost-saving improvements.
– 15% goes to the “System for Distribution” to all 14 universities for the waiver of tuition fees and other charges and fees pursuant to other public school policies.

The law does not allow the state to lease land without the university president’s written consent. This is an integral part of the law, because it gives the college community time to request that the university not proceed with the project, if they so wish. However, this does mean that a university president is required to listen to the discontent of the college community, which means that the power to execute mining or drilling lies in the hands of a few at the top. Never mind those who actually make universities what they are; the faculty and the students, those who give their lives and money to keep these institutions running.

Even if a university president is intrigued by the 50% payment, it doesn’t mean a school may use it as it wishes. The law specifically states that universities must use the money for deferred maintenance and energy efficiency projects; two things that aren’t directly about quality of education. If a school has been needing money for department shortfalls or any other budget issues regarding the classroom and learning, it will have to forget about it.

It is also interesting that only 15% of payments can be used for the waiver of tuition fees and other charges imposed on students, and this 15% must be allocated among all 14 universities in the state system. This seems like an insultingly small sum. Perhaps those in charge of coming up with these numbers know more about the actual effectiveness of these percentages, but requiring 85% of the money to be used for maintenance and energy projects seems restrictive and ineffective. Maintenance and energy-saving solutions are very important, but there could be other uses for the money.

However, what it really concerning about laws like this one is that the people who work at and attend these universities have no real choice in the matter. Although the public could choose to stop supporting the university by finding work and education elsewhere, that would not be an easy choice; given how difficult it can be to find new employment or pass another school’s admission process.

We have already seen the damage that mining and fracking can cause. The environmental and health concerns are not fantasy. The water and air quality of nearby towns and neighborhoods can be ruined by drilling and mining, and because the leased land will be on campus, the safety of those working at and attending the school will most certainly be put at risk. It just isn’t fair to force innocent people to be near mining and drilling sites, especially when they did not initially agree to work for or attend a school that took part in such projects.

When laws such as these pass through our legislative system, it reminds us that we need to always be on the lookout for government decisions that threaten our present and future freedoms. Is this new law worth the short-term monetary gain and brief supply of non-renewable resources, or should we reevaluate how we use our land and power our lives? Big business tells us we need to ruin our land to create jobs and spawn energy independence, but what they don’t tell us is that they don’t really care how it all turns out; as long as they can flee the scene with full pockets and personal security.


Nadia Jones has been working as a freelance writer for many years and is currently serving as a regular contributor to several blogs about accredited online colleges. In her spare time, Nadia enjoys cooking up new vegetarian recipes and listening to live local music. Feel free to send any questions or comments her way at


Comments 249

  • Spill, baby, spill.

    Hopefully the university doesn’t own any land in primitivist anthropologists Jason Godesky neck of the woods.

  • Oh, listen to this! There is no problem according to the Cato Institute!

  • Yes, Tom, that behaviour is quite predictable. It makes me think that governments are deliberately avoiding acknowledging that we’ve passed enough tipping points into runaway climate change. What would happen if they actually told everyone what we here already know? Would there be absolute panic in the streets and total social chaos, lawless murder, rape, red button pushing, etc.? Maybe if enough people actually believed them when they said it, it would throw us into that scenario.

    I actually believe the elite know this already. Not acknowledging it allows the social chaos, etc. to be postponed long enough and slowed down enough to allow rich people to set up enclaves where they truly believe they can survive. Does anyone have a link to the story about that place in South America somewhere where the government is allowing people from North America to buy huge tracts of land, fence it off, populate it, import slaves, and be exempt from the laws of the country? I saw that somewhere and now I can’t find it again.

    What’s coming will also kill off all those people, too, but I truly believe they think they can make it through to the other side. George Bush I famously stated that he thought that a total worldwide nuclear war was “winnable.”

    I believe the 1%’ers think of this as “cleansing” the earth to prepare for THEIR descendants to re-populate and create their utopia.

    This morning on my way to town I saw a pure white snowy owl being harrassed by about 30 ravens.

  • And here in Canuckistan:

    “If the current trend of spiralling labour and other costs continues, investors may start to turn off the tap on the massive amounts of money needed to develop the oilsands.”

  • Thank you, Nadia, for your post. The pursuit of Business As Usual will take strange and extreme forms as the scope for that pursuit meets physical constraints. The gaping maw will engulf whatever little is still available: the beast has a life of its own.

  • Meh. Too late anyway since life will be extinguished by mid-century. It would be nice, though, if the perpetrators just admitted what they are doing.

  • It’s a fools journey though MB, yes? If the rest of the world fries, “they” will be subject to consequences they can’t even begin to imagine in their best case scenario utopias, and it’ll be short-lived with no supply chain. Do you think there’s some grand conspiracy by the 1% to trash the planet purposefully or do you think that these people are as ignorant as the faux “science” debate in that Cato gang-bang of that poor kid in the Crossfire “interview?”

    BCNP: Let’s hope the oilsands costs continue to spiral up. i just saw a video of some poll somewhere today who says we Americans don’t trust any governments after the endless wars we’ve been subjected to while our own standards of living have plummeted. Here it is:

    Everyone: What do you think is going on?

    i believe that whatever grand scheme any human or group of humans think they have “in the bag” is subject to forces far beyond their control, especially as the human way of life we’ve been killing the planet with begins to come apart from these very forces:

    – rampant communicable diseases (including rare never-before seen hybrids of swine, bird and other influenzas for which there are no cures and the ones from the past, mutated into the present plague, Morgellons, and West Nile, to name a few)

    – volcanic activity (that will further fuel the atmosphere with noxious crap and be spread across the globe)

    – tectonic activity (especially as a result of that giant plate off India breaking apart, but including sinkholes all over the world)

    – rising sea levels causing islands to sink and the water is rising everywhere

    – nuclear nightmare (the ongoing one we’re witnessing getting evermore out of control)

    – ocean death from our pollution

    – climate change making it impossible to grow food and aquifirs drying up among other problems it will cause

    – resource depletion (like potable water and arable land)

    and there are many others. These forces all interact in chaotic ways.

    Looks like The Long Emergency continues.

  • Shortly after 911 I discovered that Peak Oil was upon us. It wasn’t a surprise, just sort of “oh now” experience. I told a friend who shared it with local college professors who were worried about climate change. He reported back that they were hopeful that this would prevent runaway climate change. I was doubtful. I thought that knowing us humans we would go after the dirtiest of fuels and relax all standards in order to keep industrial civilization going as long as possible. So here we are over 10 years from then and to my dismay but not to my surprise I hear that they are going after university property.

    Thanks for the heads up Nadia. This is what life looks like at the end of a civilization – Easter Island. Only this time it is the whole planet and we can do more than cut trees, we can dredge up stuff that was far better buried under the ground.

  • Tom, I agree with Ken Barrows – all over – humans all gone by mid century if not sooner. I don’t think this will be a Long Emergency, but rather a relatively short excursion to extinction.

    To add to Sandy we have this “Nor’easter possible along East Coast next week, but not as severe as Sandy”

    Its just going to get worse and then it will be over.

  • Tom

    You asked:

    ” Everyone: What do you think is going on?”

    With all the points you noted after this question,
    perhaps the Mayans had an idea of what was going to be going on around December 21st 2012?

    We don’t have long now to find out.

    My question is: will it be a literal end of the world, or a moment when a majority consciously register it is ‘Game Over Man’? If the latter is the case, that may ‘make us’ as a species, curiously enough.

    Over Man, GAME OVER!

    Just love Bill Paxton!!

  • Regarding the essay….

    If I may make a crude but I think concise, cogent argument about the topic and it’s relation to Peak oil.
    After Peak oil, (i.e. now!), the economic growth template is busted, and yes it will take a long time to catch on, but not for the real big money players.
    In a world economy deprived of its economic growth engine, profits from Oil and fossil fuels, there is only one ‘classic’ economic way to keep BAU for ordinary thinking economists – efficiency!!

    This breaks down into a number of factors.

    The first and biggest is to supress real wage growth. That also means trading away hard won entitlements like holiday leave pay, sick pay, work breaks, hours of work agreements, and more.

    The second is to cut business costs, like cleaning services, for example.

    The third is to cut public expenditure, like public education, state welfare, health care. If it looks like an increase in funding, which is rare now, look at the fine details and see if there isn’t a kick back to business cronies. Like what happened in Australia with the addition of Ethanol, by up to 10% to standard Automotive fuel, and blow me down the largest Ethanol producer in Australia then was run by a longtime good friend to the then Prime Minister, J-hn H-w-rd.(I cant bring myself to even type his name now). This introduction was slipped by the public with the smokescreen of using biofuels, to be sustainable, but was merely to stave off the effects of oil spare capacity in short supply, and rising oil prices.

    Ethanol Case Study

    Environmental Science
    Ethanol in Petrol

    A relevent quote:

    “The survey pressured the Howard Government to cap the content of ethanol blended with petrol at 10%. The governments reluctance to do so led to speculation that John Howard’s interest to increase ethanol content in petrol was due to the close relationship it shares with Manildra which is a company responsible for 95% of Australian ethanol production.

    On September 12 2002 John Howard announced that a 38c per litre excise would be placed on all ethanol. This coincided with a subsidy for the production of Australian produced ethanol. The potential environmental and economic benefits of ethanol use in Australia will increase ethanol production for fuel in Australia. Proposed legislation such as the Energy Grants (Cleaner fuels) Scheme Bill allows for payments of grants to producers and importers of certain biofuels and cleaner fuels. On May 10th 2002 the Commonwealth Government announced a $5 million study to address market barriers to increase the production of bio-fuels to 350 million by 2010. This includes vehicle testing and a technical assessment of the use of 20% ethanol and 80% petrol blends for use in current vehicle fleets.”

    And lastly use the many arms of media to obfuscate and deny climate change, peak oil, and nuclear devastation etc. A part of this is to use the media to prepare the ground for wholesale social distraction through bringing up constantly the issue of immigration and ‘Asylum Seekers, from ‘Arab sounding places’ like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, over-there-astan, other-astan, etc.
    These days in Australia, when an issue of climate change or extreme weather come on the media radar, it just so happens to coincide with a refugee, assylum seeker, or imigration issue, ‘spun’ and ‘slid’ all over the place, such that the overworked many, have little energy to keep undoing the spin, so eventually, only the tenaceous, and committed(some of whom are here), can keep their eyes on the critical issue.

    To summerise, usually with boom and bust cycles there is this process that expects eventually to be an upturn in economic activity and therefor growth. That will not happen given Peak Oil is here, and an ‘undulating plateau’ of world oil production is the sign, not seen by all, that will lead to a slow decline, and a corresponding increse in world oil price.
    All this means that at all levels of public money, federal, state and local, no more big money is coming in, and that will mean a decline in all the social and public infrastructure,they will just go, and be given to private companies. That is never going to stop.This will end in slavery, and that is what wealthy nations will be loathe to admit.

    Just look at how the well prepared ground of the class wars has the lower working class pitted against the unemployed. Let them distract each other with pride and security and affluenza issues, while Rome burns.

    The squeeze is on.

    As a work colleague was fond of saying to me, “I am convinced ‘they’ will thoroughly fuck up the planet way before they admit there is any problem with their way of fucking up the planet.”

    It is hard to find convincing evidence to challenge that sentiment, IMO.

    The issues of coal seem gas and fracking, and the international legal framework that allows it to happen, known as GATT, is an example of how energy-profit-at-all-cost is ignoring real environmental limits, blinded by BAU and profit.

    I have mentally and spiritually adjusted my expectations regarding the limits of growth, and the coming economic decline.
    How long will it take for the majority of humanity to do the same is a 9 billion dollar question.

    December 21st, 2012 sounds good, IMO!

  • I agree that the essay illustrates the Easter Island scenario, mentioned by Kathy ( even though there is some dispute about what actually occurred on Easter Island, it’s a good shorthand term for what humans and other species do when a resource comes to an end, like poisoning the ground water supply with fracking which poisons the atmosphere ).

    Some of the ideas discussed on this blog are creeping into the mainstream, e.g. Christian Science Monitor is mentioned, although the article is bland and veiled, always too little and too late… Mustn’t upset the vested interests too much…

    Nothing, at this point stands in the way of a rise above 3.6 degrees F (2 degrees C) which will produce far more extreme weather, significant sea rise and ecologically devastating species extinctions.

  • OzMan, even though I couldn’t get the “game over man!” video to play (our internet connection is frequently “iffy” at best), it’s one of my favorite lines from a movie. My other is from Bill Murray in Ghost Busters when he’s describing the chaos that will ensue when the ghosts are set free: “dog and cats living together!”.

    Completely random, I know. :-)

  • Closer to the topic, the Washington Post did a summary piece on a recent IMF study about the economic effects of peak oil. This quote from the article almost made me laugh except that it’s really quite sad:

    4) Oil turns out to be far more important than most economists had assumed. The Energy Information Administration estimates that petroleum purchases make up just 3.5 percent of the U.S. economy. Looked at from that angle, expensive oil shouldn’t do too much damage. But, the IMF authors note, several books and articles have pointed out that this understates how crucial oil is to the functioning of a modern economy. Many key technologies contain materials or use fuels derived from crude.

    That last statement is completely astonishing. How anyone who studies economics – particularly for a living – can think for a second that any aspect of our economy doesn’t “contain materials or use fuels derived from crude” is unfathomable. Do they think it’s magic? Or is it rather that they just don’t think at all?

    Full article here:

  • We have been here before and will be here many more times until it is all gone.
    David Rovics, New Orleans

    Everybody knew that it could happen
    The likelihood was clear
    The future was coming
    And now it’s here
    They had to fix the levees
    Because otherwise they’d break
    On one side was the city
    Above it was the lake
    It was in the daily papers
    In bold letters was the writ
    What would happen
    When the Big One hit
    But every year they cut the funding
    Just a little more
    So they could give it to the Army
    To fight their oil war

    In National Geographic
    And the Times-Picayune
    They forecast the apocalypse
    Said it was coming soon
    Preparations must be made, they said
    Now is the time
    It was years ago they shouted
    Inaction was a crime
    They said the dikes must be improved
    And the wetlands must be saved
    But Washington decided
    Instead they should be paved
    Because malls were more important
    Than peoples’ lives
    So put some gold dust in your eyes
    And hope no storm arrives

    New Orleans, New Orleans, New Orleans

    Years and years of warning
    No evacuation plan
    It was just if the waters rose
    Just get out if you can
    There were no buses
    No one chartered any trains
    There was no plan to rescue
    All of those who would remain
    All the people with no money
    All the people with no wheels
    All of those who didn’t hotwire
    One that they could steal
    Thousands and thousands of people
    Abandoned by the state
    Abandoned by their country
    Just left to meet their fate

    New Orleans, New Orleans, New Orleans

    And the people died
    And then they died some more
    They drowned inside their attics
    An army of the poor
    An army of the destitute
    Who couldn’t get away
    And the world will remember
    These sad and awful days
    When people shouted from their houses
    Dying on their roofs
    When people came to find them
    They were turned back by the troops
    They died there with no water
    They died there in the heat
    They were shot down by the soldiers
    For trying to find some food to eat

    New Orleans, New Orleans, New Orleans

    And now the city is in ruins
    A massive toxic sea
    Scattered through the nation
    Half a million refugees
    Here we are
    In the richest country on the earth
    Where the color of your skin
    Determines what your life is worth
    Where oil is the king
    Where global warming is ignored
    Where the very end of life
    Is the place we’re heading toward
    Where it’s more than just a metaphor
    The flooding of the dike
    And if we don’t stop this madness
    The whole planet will be like

  • Nadia Jones, I hadn’t heard of any schools leasing their land for oil exploration, but it really doesn’t surprise me. There are two forces at work. First is peak oil. As we head down the energy slope, my guess is that every square inch of land which can be exploited for oil and gas will be. It wouldn’t surprise me to see churches, malls, and city halls with oil rigs on their lawns.

    The second force is continued efforts by the far right to dismantle all public services. Public education has long been a target of the right. Teacher accountability, standardized student testing, vouchers, etc., have all been thinly veiled efforts to discredit and eventually close public schools. College and universities have been under similar pressures. Tuition has risen exponentially at many public universities. Some of this has been the result of choosing to focus on expensive research or big name sports programs as opposed to the fundamentals of education, combined with an ever increasing top-heavy administration. However, most state universities have continued to experience cuts in funding. The only way to make up that shortfall, for most schools, has been to increase tuition and fees.

    So, it’s not surprising at all that schools are allowing drilling. Given what we know about the dysfunction of our bureaucratic systems, it’s also not surprising that so little is going to help offset rising tuition.

  • Ulvfugl,

    In the firedoglake link, Bill Perdue’s proposed draconian, emergency responses to global warming are completely unrealistic, too. U.S. society and politics simply can’t move that fast, even if the desire was there. Internationally, the various countries are too far apart in their respective thinkings on climate change to make any kind of international agreement possible. The failures at Copenhagen and Rio+20 proved that. What it does show is the growing sense of desperation and despair as the huge momentum of the fossil-fuel powered global economy powers ahead.

    Nadia Jones article on Pennsylvania’s setting up the legal framework for extraction of coal, tight oil and tight gas from state univesity properties by fossil-fuel companies is but one small acknowledgment of this momentum. The justification is that this is the only way to obtain the funding needed to maintain the physical plant of these universities (pay for “deferred maintenance”). Primary and secondary schools used the same argument to justify filling their hallways and cafeterias with vending machines filled with candy, sweets and sugary drinks (with disasterous results on the health and physical appearance of children and teens).

    And so it goes.

  • The REAL Dr. House

    And the Bill Murry scene in Ghostbustwers II where he is blowing smoke to a cop while the other guys go down the hole in the middle of the road at night.
    Bill Murry just blasts the cop with road workman talk, but it is gibberish, literally.
    Have you seen that one?

  • David Rovics might find the following interesting:

    Race is part of every aspect of American life. Sometimes in surprising and unexpected ways.

  • Arthur, I will send it to him. Thanks. David makes his music available on the Creative Commons at to listen to or download. His main site is davidrovics dot com

    Because he makes them available many have downloaded music to youtube with accompanying graphics. Some of my favorites that are on youtube are The Commons, Resistance, Pirates of Somalia, Black Flag Flying, What if you Knew, Reistag Fire and so on.

  • Storm-weary U.S. residents pounded by Superstorm Sandy may have a new storm to contend with next Wednesday: an early-season Nor’easter is expected to impact the mid-Atlantic and New England with strong winds and heavy rain. Our two top models, the European (ECMWF) and GFS (run by the National Weather Service), both predict that an area of low pressure will move off the coast of South Carolina on Tuesday evening. Once over the warm waters off the coast, the low will intensify, spreading heavy rains over coastal North Carolina on Tuesday night and Wednesday morning. The storm will accelerate to the north-northeast on Wednesday and pull in cold air from Canada. The storm is predicted to intensify into a medium-strength Nor’easter with a central pressure of 992 mb by Wednesday afternoon, when it will be centered a few hundred miles south of Long Island, NY. The European model, which did an exemplary job forecasting Hurricane Sandy, predicts a stronger storm that will stay just offshore and bring a 12-hour period of strong winds of 40 – 45 mph to the coasts of Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey, and New York on Wednesday morning and afternoon. The GFS model and 06Z NOGAPS model runs from 06Z (2 am EDT) this morning have a weaker storm that is farther offshore, with the main impact of the Nor’easter occurring Wednesday evening in coastal Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Maine. The Nor’easter will likely bring a swath of 2 – 4″ of rain to the coast, and the potential for more than a foot of snow to mountain areas of the New England. The storm is still five days away, and five-day forecasts of the path and intensity of Nor’easters usually have large errors. Nevertheless, residents and relief workers in the region hit by Sandy should anticipate the possibility of the arrival on Wednesday of a moderate-strength Nor’easter with heavy rain, accompanied by high winds capable of driving a 1 – 2 foot storm surge with battering waves.
    More at

  • If a fellow is in hospice with stage 4 cancer, what is the purpose of trying to convince him on the hour, every hour, of his diagnosis, when you are absolutely certain he will die?

    argumentum in terrorem?

    • F.U.D. fetish?

    • Is it a G.A.S. alarming him into your permanent state of arousal?

    If near-term extinction is inevitable, then one may as well fuggedaboutit and live it up.

  • OzMan, actually, I have Ghost Busters II on DVD but for some reason have never watched it. Go figure.

  • Morocco Bama,

    I found the Telegraph article amusing, to say the least. The reality is that there’s been very little “barbaric” behavior of any kind in NY or NJ since Hurricane Sandy. There has been a lot of whining, though. Most of it coming from whites in the coastal areas devastated by Sandy. They can’t understand why the government hasn’t made them Priority Number 1 in the aftermath.

  • Kathy C. A blog giving the technical details of how the loss of sea ice in the Arctic is effecting the weather for the N. hemisphere and NE USA.

  • I live in Chapel Hill, NC. Please recognize the undeniable connection between the economic and population growth in Chapel Hill on the one hand and economic and population growth globally. Chapel Hillians are human beings just like all other human beings on the planet. In Chapel Hill we consume, produce and procreate just like everyone else in the human family. Economic growth and population growth are not evenly distributed. On the surface of the Earth, I see three worlds. An overdeveloped world, of which Chapel Hill is a tiny part, is one world. The overdeveloped world includes generally the USA, Western Europe, Australia and Japan. Next comes the developing world: China, Russia, Brazil, India and Eastern Europe. The remaining countries, mostly in Africa and scattered elsewhere comprise the underdeveloped world. Population growth is greatest in the developing and underdeveloped; whereas, economic growth is greatest (and has been for many generations) in the overdeveloped world. Pollution is least in the underdeveloped and greatest in the developing world now. But viewed from an historical perspective, it is the overdeveloped that has produced much more pollution than the developing and underdeveloped worlds have ever or likely will ever produce.

    When taken together, the population growth activities and the economic growth activities of all three ‘worlds’ can be seen as so colossal in scale and so rapid in rate of increase, that a planet of the size, composition and ecology cannot much longer, much less forever, sustain what the human species is doing worldwide. Outrageous per capita overconsumption and individual hoarding of limited resources, relentless increase in overproduction capabilities of corporate enterprise, and unbridled growth of absolute global human population numbers that are occurring synergistically the world over appear to be reaching the point of becoming patently unsustainable, as I see things. Every person on the planet is implicated in this wicked situation. The human community is presenting a human-driven predicament to itself. Until more of us learn to “think globally and act locally”, the gigantic and complex predicament looming ominously before all of us will grow larger day by day, and more difficult to address and overcome, I suppose.

  • Every person on the planet is implicated in this wicked situation.

    im·pli·cat·ed (n.) shown to be involved in a crime

    “For all have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God.” ~Romans 3:23

    See also:
    • /wiki/Total_depravity
    • /wiki/Original_sin

    In what way does such an imputation differ from the guilt inducement of Christian theology?

  • Does anybody wish that the Christian Dark Ages had continued indefinitely instead of The Renaissance and The Age of Reason that directly correlates to the Population Explosion?

    Is Dark Age Christianity the most Gaia-friendly of western world-views?

  • And now back to our regularly scheduled affirmation of the obvious for the millionth time, while I do all the original thinking around here.


  • “[E]ternal fire was prepared for him who voluntarily departed from [Gaia] and for all who, without repentance, persevere in apostasy.”

    ~Justin Martyr, fragment in Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:26 [A.D. 156]

    Has Christian doctrine’s error been merely an imprecise focus of teleology,* anthropomorphizing the Sun as a solar diety, instead of themes like Sandy, Hell & The Flood,** Gaia (or Medea), etal?

    * /wiki/Teleology#Teleology_and_science
    **“>New study puts the ‘hell’ in Hell and High Water

  • And now back to our regularly scheduled affirmation of the obvious for the millionth time, while I do all the original thinking around here.

  • Don’t get so intimidated, Robin, while avoiding the question:

    How many times must the obvious be affirmed?

    OMG! We’re all gonna die!
    And here’s the science why!

    Will there be some sort of resolution at the masturbatory millionth turn of the prayer wheel?

  • So Ivy Mike,

    Are we all gonna die by 2030 due to catastrophic climate change or not? Whaddaya think?

  • Ivy Mike,

    The basic claim of Guy and the majority of NBLers here boils down to this:

    Near-term extinction of all life is a done deal because Ma’m Gaia has pulled the trigger on the clathrate gun. Do you

    A) Agree
    B) Disagree
    C) Are not sure

    with that assessment?

  • ulvfugl thanks for the link on EH2R – it confirms what others have been saying but in more detail.

  • Morocco Bama,

    I do know one thing. I am 100% confident that we will NOT see global economic collapse, or even U.S. economic collapse, by the end of this year. 2012 is going to pass quietly into history.

    2013, on the other hand…

  • @Art: My answer: C. Not Sure.

    I strongly agree with global warming, the evidence is undeniable. However, as civilization collapses and people start fighting over what powers civilization—and we’re seeing early signs of it already—there’s going to be the biggest brawl you’ve ever seen.

    Some, including me, have prepared for that eventuality.

    Moscow arms against nuclear attack
    Nearly 5,000 new emergency bomb shelters will be built in Moscow by 2012
    Russia Today, 12 July, 2010

    SENSE OF CONGRESS ON NEED FOR RUSSIAN OPENNESS ON THE YAMANTAU MOUNTAIN PROJECT, House of Representatives – June 19, 1997 Congressional Record

    “The only potential use for this site is post-nuclear war.”
    ~Rep. Roscoe Bartlett, June 2000

    Thermonuclear war will reverse global warming, probably with a nuclear winter, if you’ve ever read The Cold and the Dark: The World After Nuclear War by Paul R. Ehrlich, Carl Sagan and Donald Kennedy, which I have in my personal library.

    Events hardly ever go linearly the way people extrapolate them out.

  • Morocco Bama,

    You’re a Doubter, not a Denier. A Doubter in Near-Term Extinction of humanity by 2030 and all life by mid-century.

  • Nadia, I certainly hope faculty and students at colleges that accept this bribe do not take it laying (lying?) down. I hope people will organize and protest and start looking for another college that does not accept bribes. It doesn’t matter WHAT universities or colleges could do with the money. It’s blood money.

    Off topic, Guy’s presentation in Louisville went very well, I thought. He was funnier than he’s been in the videos I’ve seen. Not terribly well attended, but the looks on people’s faces when the lights went up for the q and a were very interesting. Most looked stunned, especially the younger people. From the stage, Guy, do people look like a deer in headlights?

    Some people prior to hearing Guy heard a video presentation by the president of the Sierra Club. I don’t know his name, I only caught the very last part of it, but he was full of shit, talking about how wind and solar will save us. He had a little ploy at the end (or maybe it’s just that I’ve become extremely cynical), but he showed pictures of his newborn daughter and teared up for the crowd when he said her middle name is Hope. Gaack.

    Guy, it was great to meet you. Maybe we’ll get you to Kentucky again, soon.

  • ulvfugl I just got around to reading the article about Perkins – quite a man, but lost to history by and large.

    Have you read The Worst Hard Time: The Untold Story of Those Who Survived the Great American Dust Bowl by Timothy Egan? Egan interviews people who lived through the Dust Bowl and stayed. He includes the story of Hugh Hammond Bennett described here by Maurice G. Cook

    “In March 1935, a bill was introduced in Congress to set up the Soil Conservation Service as a permanent agency of the government. It was one of many dropped in the hopper under the urgency of the Dust Bowl and its accompanying consequences of depression, unemployment, and hunger. Bennett was called by a Senate committee to argue the case for the proposed legislation. His appearance and what followed it are now legendary. A Bennett biographer, Wellington Brink, graphically describes the event:

    “The witness was not cheerful, but he was persistent, informed, and courageous. He told a grim story. He had been telling it all morning. Chapter by chapter, he annotated each dismal page with facts and figures from a reconnaissance he had just completed. . . . The witness did not hurry. He did not want to hurry. That extra ace he needed was not yet at hand. Well he realized that the hearing was beginning to drag. Out of one corner of his eye, he noted the polite stifling of a yawn, but Hugh Bennett continued deliberatively. . . . Bennett knew that a dust storm was on its way. He had newspaper items and weather reports to support this knowledge. But it seemed mighty slow arriving. If his delaying tactics were successful, the presence of the swirling dust—material evidence of what he was talking about—ought to serve as a clincher for his argument. Presently one of the senators remarked—off the record—’It is getting dark. Perhaps a rainstorm is brewing.’ Another ventured, ‘Maybe its dust.’ ‘I think you are correct,’ Bennett agreed. ‘Senator, it does look like dust.’ The group gathered at a window. The dust storm for which Hugh Bennett had been waiting rolled in like a vast steel-town pall, thick and repulsive. The skies took on a copper color. The sun went into hiding. The air became heavy with grit. Government’s most spectacular showman had laid the stage well. All day, step by step, he had built his drama, paced it slowly, risked possible failure with his interminable reports, while he prayed for Nature to hurry up a proper denouement. For once, Nature cooperated generously.”

  • It takes a while to catch up with all the threads and links here at NBL. Thanks for all the information.

    Ivy Mike – i’ll get that book from the library (if they have it), i liked Ehrlich’s work and Sagan had a perspective i admired (kind of informed naivete, if you will), while we’re all waiting to die. That Russian bunker story is intriguing – maybe they’ll do us all a favor and nuke us til we twinkle while we respond in kind and the rest of the world has to deal with the coming nuclear winter.

    Kathy C. – i appreciate your links to and exposition of coming events, weather, human interest, etc. Thanks for responding to my question too. The Long Emergency was a reference to Kunstler (of course) and how obvious it is that we’re already in it (and have been for about 10 years but didn’t “know” it – ie. the effects weren’t being felt by us yet). Keep it comin’ please.

    OzMan – interesting scenario you spelled out above, and good quote by your college buddy! Thanks for your response. i still can’t believe that we’re so dumb as to put ethanol, which corrodes and damages both small engines and larger ones (ie. lawn mowers etc to cars), into our gas tanks. If they wanted to make biofuel there are WAY better alternatives like some of the grasses (we consider weeds) which produce almost 6 times the energy as corn. Kind of guaranteed obsolescense.

    Dr. House – yeah, who was it, Einstein (?) who said “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and i’m not sure about the former.” As to the ever-rising tuition problem, i think it’s just a matter of time, now that all the well-paying jobs have been off-shored, that colleges begin closing down due to a severe shortage of students for many reasons including job loss/forclosure by paying parents, the fact that there are virtually no jobs worth going to school for (and it isn’t getting any better), and the fact that labor is increasingly being delegated to machines and AI. Sooner or later this would effect medical field personnel where they already have robotic surgery (in its early, developmental stage now, since it still requires human interface). i think the whole she-bang is going to crash before that happens though.

    MB – thanks for your response. i’m convinced we’re done, but i think we all “live” as doubters due to the human propensity for continuation (until we can’t) of all of our ignorant behaviors (even smokers with cancer do it)! i’ve come to realize that academics is one of these endeavors. All the great math and science that has evolved during the human adventure has been co-opted and misused by the vested interests (the powers that be including politicians), the banks, and the military and used AGAINST the general populace – either to subjugate or annihilate.

    Steven – thanks for the close look at the sociology of your area. It’s pretty much the same here where people walk around in a complete mindless fog of indifference, distraction and whim craving. Good parallel you’ve drawn to the big picture. One thing is that it always seems to be the case that the “haves” (nations, included) find ways to dump their pollution on the “have-nots” whether locally or globally.

  • Kathy C., thanks for the Egan quote, no, I have not read that book.

    The Perkins article and other links towards the end of the last thread were intended for Ozman who asked for stuff earlier than 1977.

    I expect that there’s earlier concern for destruction of the environment in the Roman and ancient Greek sources, because they trashed the Mediterranean area, but Blake recognised that something new and awful had appeared on Earth, although his view was intuitive, not scientific. Seven generations ago. He saw the disease beginning in England, and then it spread to USA and the rest of the world, eating nature and producing a toxic mess in its place.

    “And all the Arts of Life they changed into the Arts of Death in Albion…”

  • The REAL Dr. House

    A DVD in you collection you haven’t seen yet…?? MMmmmm.
    I have one called “Cracker”, with that big English actor Robbie Coletraine, and it was a gift at Christmas from an inlaw aunt…. er.. ‘Thanks…er.. I didn’t get you anything.. thanks again”, ‘No worries”, kind of gift, not really my thing. I haven’t watched that myself. I’ve seen a bit of it on TV some years ago, too violent for me.

    This is a small example of overconsumption, and on my part, poor human family relations. I take some responsibility for that poor state of affairs, but I look upon it practically; if these family members took the tome to actually get to know me, rather than hear third hand my dynamic ferusal to take control orders from aged neurotic elders from that inlaw side of the family, they would see for themselves that I am an asshole, but only under certain circumstances like I just intimated.
    I can be a tollerant asshole, a charming asshole, or even a faking interest smooth as sik asshole, but an asshole nevertheless, with regard to family who have hubris so far stuck up their collective asses they think the local train service is decrepid because they only come once an hour, but mostly on time BTW.

    Some families circulate a letter about not wanting unwanted presents for Christmas, just some family time. That probably is a cool idea.

    we tried it but grandparent mania is hard to shift when they feel the grandkids are materially missing out. I have thrown out more junk in the small kiddie Christmass years than a small Walmart has in a year I rekon, all as a substitute for joyous, happy meaningful human love and relationship, which requires much more than a re-allocation of resourses and some transportation.

    But I don’t take responsibility for people who go along with the crowd till it is too late – the cliff is there and they are being pushed from all sides and ….splat!

    I will help anyone who wants it, all the same.

    Ghostbusters 2 is a thin alegory for the overpollution of materialism, and the psychic baggage that builds up when people live in large cities all tuned to the same fork. He He…fork!

  • Ulvfugl •• Greek philosopher Plato (427 – 347 BC) compared hills and mountains of Greece to the bones of a wasted body: “All the richer and softer parts have fallen away and the mere skelton of the land remains.”

  • Ulvfugl

    Thanks for the Perkins article, and I was also aware of something from the Greeks, but only a vague memory from earlier ‘serindipidous library preambulation’ of old.

  • Kathy C

    Great link about the people lining up for petrol in USA.

    A SIGN OF THINGS TO COME, perhaps.

  • Robin Datta

    IMO the post of the week so far regarding:

    ‘Dunning–Kruger effect’

    Explains some of the silliness about.

  • Why do I intimidate you OzMan? Just address what I bring up, or be nice. Or is that not an option for a drunk Aussie?

  • Ivy Mike

    How can you believe that any of my recent comments are especially addressed to you?

    What kind of hubris makes you deem me to feel intimidated by an obvious paid for commenter like you? Ha!

    Your framing of debate is so week I’m not sure your employer will keep you at NBL for much longer, it is so poor an outcome for the money they are paying you.

    So…What is it that you have written that you think I should comment on exactly?…Here we go again…

  • Ivy Mike

    Oh and just so you know, I do not self identify as an Aussie, only human, until I realise otherwise.

    As for drunk, now your framing is improving there, so succint a term….” a drunk Aussie”, but still not acurate either. I rarely drink alcahol now, and if I do it is at some social event and I limit myself to one. I prefer a clear head these days, and I never was a big boozer in my youth anyway. My liver is getting to like the dry period lately.

    others bothering to read this will now have ample evidence to conclude your framing was clever but neither acurate nor lasting in how I am percieved as a comments contributor.

    Try harder next comment Ivy Mike.
    Earn you money!!
    Don’t just coast along, tell me something about myself only someone with access to H-l-b-r-t-n datbase connections could know, and we can really talk. Then I’ll take you seriously.

  • ‘Thank you, Nadia, for your post. The pursuit of Business As Usual will take strange and extreme forms as the scope for that pursuit meets physical constraints. The gaping maw will engulf whatever little is still available: the beast has a life of its own.’ -robin

    i suspect u’re right, which brings up this question: did u watch the video clip of brilliant comic/philosopher bill hicks for which a link was provided on this blog a few days ago, where he says our lives are mere product of imagination, not surreally surreal, ‘just a ride’? well, i don’t get why anyone would conjure up a nightmare ride, this ride we now seem to share. any guesses, robin, or anyone, as to why anyone would imagine a ride so unpleasant, if all we’re experiencing is imagination?

    here’s a link to an extended hicks performance (titled ‘revelations’) in london i think just a year or so before he died of cancer just 32 years old. it’s 75 minutes of the most fun that can be had legally and freely… a respite from the nightmare ride:

    life can be fun sometimes; then u die. i can’t believe it’s just a ride!

  • the virgin terry

    The Bill Hicks link was an eye openner. I’m grateful.
    I didn’t know of him before then.

    I suspect it is prety easy to induce pancreatic or liver cancer by special ops.

    There are radionucleotides that if ingested will be directed to specific organs, and bingo, it just looks like a random occurrence.

    In justification for this assertion I only offer the question:

    “What the hell do we think they have been spending all that defence money on if not that?”

    Medical biopsies since Hiroshima have been thoroughly studied. Even a second rate monkey could figure that out. But in this case the death was designed to fit the situation – just a withdrawl, no martyrdom, no sudden accident, and no doubt- the illness was in him, he was flawed, that is the inner public perception, he was sick, in him was the flaw.
    If he was hit by a car, pr met a grissly mechanical death like a ski accident or a mugging, thee focus would have been on the system that killed him, and how hollow that system is to take a truth teller like him. but a cancer induces an instinctual fear of self content, like there is something wrong on the inner level, like a parasite, a worm, and it ate you up, for what you believe. That is the subtle message of cancer, induced cancer, that is.

    That is a hell of a price to pay for what is supposed to be in the American Constitution as a primary citizen right:

    Freedom of Speech!!!

    Bill Hicks would probably be the first to laugh at such a sheister trick as to indoctrinate an entire population that they are intrinsically free, when centuries of religeous longing sought just that, and it was not a simple attainment in reality. But Americans get it in their constitution!!!
    Of course it is a grand and noble social objective, and IMO on that level it is worthy of great respect, but in practice it comes to mean superiority with regard to other peoples and nationalities, a segway from colonial times and early empire logic of religoius righteousness and even ‘Manifest Destiny’ stuff.

    Such hubris…

    What a hoot.

  • I am wondering if anyone has bothered to verify Guy’s claim, that the IEA has stated 6 degree warming by 2035, because I am unable to find the report.

  • Daniel

    “The 6°C Scenario (6DS) is largely an extension of current trends. By 2050, energy use almost doubles (compared with 2009) and total GHG emissions rise even more. In the absence of efforts to stabilise atmospheric concentrations of GHGs, average global temperature rise is projected to be at least 6°C in the long term. The 6DS is broadly consistent with the World Energy Outlook Current Policy Scenario through 2035.”

    This is in the ‘Scenarios and Projections’ section on the IEA website.

    I don’t know about the actual report it may be in, but that took me 35 seconds to find, even at Australian braordband speeds that is easy.

    You must have looked hard.

    So hard to find eh?

    Not another one…

  • Oops….

    Here is the link….don’t want it to be too hard to find:

  • OzMan Says:
    November 3rd, 2012 at 7:31 pm
    Ivy Mike

    How can you believe that any of my recent comments are especially addressed to you?

    What kind of hubris makes you deem me to feel intimidated by an obvious paid for commenter like you? Ha!

    Your framing of debate is so week I’m not sure your employer will keep you at NBL for much longer, it is so poor an outcome for the money they are paying you.

    Well said. +1
    Feeding trolls and shills is a poor use of our time.

  • Anthony can’t even pronounce the word teleology; thus, I’m necessarily a troll. Or shill. Or something!

    What a poor little intimidated halfwit you are, Tony, baffled by the multisyllabic tel·e·ol·o·gy.

    Can I help you, or anybody else, find their thinking caps?

  • The uninformed who approach an issue can be helped, but when ignoramuses assume an air of sophistication, they have no idea of what a detestable image of egotistical idiots they project.

  • But Americans get it in their constitution!!!

    The constitution was meant to keep the government SOBs from infringing on the rights that the people already had PRIOR to the constitution. It did not GIVE any new rights.

    Of course by “people” was meant the landed male white gentry. It was never the intent of the constitution to recognise any rights for blacks, browns, reds, yellows or females.

  • Ignoramuses like Robin keep ignoring, never addressing, always cowardly avoiding, and yipping like little domesticated poodles at the wolf.

  • well, i don’t get why anyone would conjure up a nightmare ride, this ride we now seem to share.

    No answer found by seeking an answer will be adequate. Only by seeking the seeker can one approach a resolution. It is not enough to see a mound of identifying labels and name it the seeker. Those labels have to be peeled off one by one: “I am a/n _______” (fill in one by one, each of the multitude of descriptors). Some of the identifying labels may be extremely subtle, not recognisable at the conscious/intellectual level, such as identification with a person, place, group or idea. Nevertheless, the process is incomplete until the last of the labels has been peeled off.

    Who, then, is imagining?

  • Landed male white gentry? You talkin’ to me, bedwetter?

    Meanwhile, in reality-based-land:

    • Every leading Founder acknowledged that slavery was wrong. Slavery was legal and practiced in every state in 1776; by the end of the founding era, more than a hundred thousand slaves had been freed by the outlawing of slavery in seven of the original thirteen states.

    • Women were understood by everyone to be included in the “all men” (all human beings) who are created equal. In New Jersey, women voted in elections routinely during the 1790s and early 1800s, for the first time anywhere in world history. This fact, as we will see, is clearly connected to the Founders’ equality principle.

    • Far from excluding the poor, the electorate in the founding era was the most democratic of any large nation in history. It included about 85 to 90 percent of free males.

  • Just address what I bring up

    OzMan, it seems you have been assigned the task of janitor at NBL. Clean up the vomit.

  • And I suppose using that bizarre logic, that would make you the NBL Pastor. Father Robin.

    The assignment did not come from me. And the assigner has not yet given me any such assignment.

  • Robin Datta one minute: Troll! Shill!
    Robin Datta the very next minute: Ad hominem!

    Ya think so, Robin? Hey, I want you to call your mommy today and ask her about “dishing it out, but not being able to take it,” OK?

  • Still can’t figure out that multisyllabic word teleology, Robin? Sure, what Sandy did to NYC, I’m doing to you. Some might call it bluster.

    So, anyway, use those dictionary skills, and get out of the b’s into the t’s. Got your ABC’s down pat, right?

  • Anthony “Feeding trolls and shills is a poor use of our time.”


  • Daniel,

    The IEA report does not state that there will be 6C (10.8F) average global warming by 2035. It states if no coordinated action is taken to reduce GHG emisions and BAU is maintained in energy policy worldwide between now and 2035, 6C (10.8F) warming “over the long term” is a done deal. By “long term”, they mean “by 2100”.

    But before you breathe a sigh of relief, keep in mind that if the average global warming is 6C, it will be higher over land, maybe 8-9C (14.4-15.2F), which is a Permian level of warming. At least 80% of the worlds’ land area will be to0 hot for life, and the rest will be too hot for mammalian life. Some species of reptiles might be able to hang on for awhile, but not for long.

    No matter which way you look at it, the world’s remaining stock of fossil fuels has to be left in the ground. There’s no other option. This is why Hansen and McKibben chain themselves to coal mine entrances and lie down in front of railroad tracks to disrupt the movement of coal trains.

  • MB: While I appreciate Zinn’s insights, and have a couple of his texts in my personal library, Jefferson was relatively anti-property.

    He gave a huge slap in the face to the Lockean “life, liberty, and property” when he removed the word “property” and inserted Jeremy Bentham’s Utilitarian phrase “pursuit of happiness.”

    And what’s Plutomic about this?

    “It is too soon yet in our country to say that every man who cannot find employment but who can find uncultivated land shall be at liberty to cultivate it, paying a moderate rent. But it is not too soon to provide by every possible means that as few as possible shall be without a little portion of land. The small land holders are the most precious part of a state.”

    ~Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, Oct. 28, 1785

  • Why is Kathy C so spiteful?

    Is it because I destroyed her woefully flawed anti-choice reproductive ethics (masquerading as her much ballyhooed “extinction ethics“) that parroted the strident rhetoric of the other anti-choice fundamentalists?

    ” You speak unskilfully: or, if your knowledge be more, it is much darkened in your malice.” ~William Shakespeare (Measure for Measure)

  • “Quotes on the Internet are impossible to identify.”

    – Abraham Lincoln

  • Take up your faux anxiety with MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology), BC.

    Measure for Measure (full play) ~William Shakespeare

    Are you pissed because I handily dispatched Kathy C’s morally flawed anti-choice reproductive ethics (masquerading as her much ballyhooed “extinction ethics“) that parroted the strident rhetoric of the other anti-choice fundamentalists? Were you really going to add that garbage to your paper?

  • MB, RE: Plutomic, a trifecta of Plutonomy + Potomac + Atomic

    Thank you, kind sir. I just made it up this morning, because the D of C, as you note, does have a river of power too cheap to meter. ;)

  • Morocco Bama,

    If all fossil fuel consumption ended today, an average global temp rise of 2C (3.6F) is a done deal. So far, the average global temp has risen 0.7C (1.3F), and about double that (1.4C or 2.5F) over land.

  • Teleology

    – a much bandied term.

  • Morocco Bama

    You wrote:

    “I can’t believe someone admitted to owning a copy of Ghostblusters II. All those starving people that OzMan spoke about, and he and the doc are bragging about there love of Ghostblusters.”

    Always worrying about other peoples’ inconsistencies, eh? Well that is what you are payed to do here at NBL, eh, Morocco Bama ?

    Ever heard of the word, context?

    Starving people and enjoying Ghostbusters 2…. Wow, how cutting, what deep hypocrcy you have unearthed there, and so glib, what a crime, you got us red handed Morocco Bama, you’re such a sleuth.

    We been nicked The REAL Dr. House!!

    Shock horror.

    Now we can see how despirate you are to reclaim the control you had a while back of NBL comments section. Those halcyon days eh?.. they were good then eh? You even got Guy to put up a undecypherable essay very few people commented on.

    You were upset by that, how outrageous, and you spent all that time musing about El Lawrence, the spy. I should have seen you then for what you were, a payed for commenter to clog up NBL.

    You never stopped to think that the essay you put up was very poor quality writing for this space, and no one commented because they were not sufficiently stimulated by it!

    I reread it yesterday, and you know what? I started to think about the Porn Star hooting owl and realised it was more interesting to me than your essay. Others may have a lower benchmark to assign it to, I can’t say.

    Regarding the hungry/starving billion, ‘loving’ Ghostbusters 2 , and context, you keep trying to use ‘sliding’ and ‘spinning’ techniques on any comment to slur the poster, which frames another’s perception just that bit away from crediblilty…How you have slipped MB.

    The game is up. Attempting to highlight regular posters hypocracy, as a stratergy to disuade others from reading the important, or at least ‘dangerous’ content – dangerous to your employer that is – is wearing you out, and no longer effective.

    You will soon find you will be reassigned to ssome kiddie game site managment soon, and then you will need to brush up on your infantile interests reportior… oh excuse me, that’s your forte, little indignant rants that accuse others of censoring you – I can’t believe I fell for that one from you, but hey, never again.

    How much do those H_L_B_R_T_N guys pay you Morocco Bama for clogging the NBL discussion pages to disuade and distract viewers from relevent content and discussion?

    I bet your sepervisor is thinking ….’Way too much money’.

    We have names for payed for commenters ….Tossers.

  • Knowingly causing or exacerbating suffering is not ethical. The expression of this opinion in no way implies coercion.

  • OzMan must work for H_L_B_R_T_N, since he speaks their name with as much reference as Hebrews do Y_HW_H. Vowels are just too holy, salad tossers!

    P.S. I didn’t say I was a Jew; I said I was Jew-ish. ;) LOL

  • Ivy Mike

    I leave out the vowels so the search engine does not pick up my use of it, not some silly idea you have similar to Jews or something and their cultic deity Y_HW_H.

    Grow up mate!

  • Landed male white gentry? You talkin’ to me, bedwetter?

    Thanks for identifying yourself and displaying your colors.

  • Robin Datta

    You wrote:

    “OzMan, it seems you have been assigned the task of janitor at NBL. Clean up the vomit.”

    Well, what an honour, if it is so needed, I accept the challenge, but I may not always be there for that unpayed duty….

    Here is a more philosphical take on cleaning up vomit…

    ‘The Meaning of Life (1983): Cleaning Lady and French Waiter’

    This will get ‘slid’ and ‘spun’ that somehow I’m a ….

  • Ozman, I think the only way to stop the trolls is to refuse to respond to them. It can be hard, they are experts at hooking people in.

  • That old lady gets around. Here she is again:

    ‘Monty Python and the Holy Grail’

    Loverly muck…

  • Kathy C

    How true.
    Silence then, IMO.
    How they will protest.

  • Kathy C you never do respond rationally to my logical critique of your morally flawed anti-choice reproductive ethics, because you can’t.

    So you respond with malice. Go right ahead and stop that, if you can. Maybe your little group therapy session here will help you with your problem.

  • Yeah, Robin, I’m white, and own land. Problem?

  • Ivy Mike,

    OK, so you’re white, Jewish, and Neanderthal. Anything else? ;)

  • No, Art, I’m not Jewish; it’s just a joke, and I was reminded of it when needling Ozzy about his hallowed JHWH style spelling while naming of the unspeakable.

    Anyway, I’ve shown my colors. White. Land-owner. Like Guy.

    I wonder what awful colors Guy is showing to Robin; I hope he clarifies.

  • Ozman, thanks for the link to the relevant part of the IEA report, which I will repost in this comment:

    The money quote is as follows:

    “he 6°C Scenario (6DS) is largely an extension of current trends. By 2050, energy use almost doubles (compared with 2009) and total GHG emissions rise even more. In the absence of efforts to stabilise atmospheric concentrations of GHGs, average global temperature rise is projected to be at least 6°C in the long term. The 6DS is broadly consistent with the World Energy Outlook Current Policy Scenario through 2035.”

    The claim is that if global use of fossil fuels doubles from the 2009 figure by 2050, then global temperature will hit the 6 degrees Celsius mark “in the long term”. A British scientist has made credible calculations that we will all fry if we get there.

    The report implies that this can be avoided if the global use of fossil fuels doesn’t double by 2050. The next block of text argues that “an ambitious scenario that requires significant changes in policy and technologies” (nuclear war!). Plus the implication is that global heat death planet happens sometime after 2050, eg after just about everyone reading this dies from more natural causes.

    Now, from what I understand, this isn’t Guy’s argument. Guy seems to think that rise in global temperature of half the 6 degrees Celsius amount will trigger or is triggering positive feedback mechanisms which will quickly (by 2035) take global temperatures to the 6 degrees Celsius mark already. These feedback mechanisms, which include the release of methane from the permafrost, do not depend on further increased carbon emissions once triggered.

    Guy in fact does not seem to think that global energy use will double by 2050, because of peak oil, and at one point thought that peak oil will save the situation by capping global fossil fuel use. He changed his mind once he took into account the positive feedback mechanisms, plus the development of the “good to the last drop” policy of TPTB to deal with peak oil.

    Guy’s position on global warming seems to this non-scientist to be a coherent and well-supported argument, but its an outlier in terms of its pessimism. Of course, more mainstream outlooks such as the IEA are depressing enough.

    I really would like to see this argument developed more. Assuming plus six degrees Celsius means global human extinction -humans have yet to experience these temperatures- a possibility that this happens sometime after forty more years of business as usual is bad enough. But there is still a chance in that case of preventing this. A near certainty that its in the works in our lifetimes due to positive feedback mechanisms is really a completely different matter.

  • MB, they’ve got you on the MAIN CORE register, fer shur!

    Which is why I’m not an anarchist. It’ll get ya jailed or killed.

    Anarchy (other than anarcho-primitivism) is the silly notion that State society (agricultural civilization) can be run without the brutal hierarchy we call the State, or Teh Gummit. 10,000 years of history proves anarchy wrong. as Stanley Diamond writes in his In Search of the Primitive: A Critique of Civilization, the first sentence of page one, “Civilization originates in conquest abroad and repression at home.”

    Guy makes this error with his term “agrarian anarchy” in appealing to Jefferson. But this is what Jefferson really thought:

    The small land holders are the most precious part of a state.” ~Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, Oct. 28, 1785

    If we’re going to have a State society, I’d prefer it to be like Jefferson imagined a “free State” could be, and I’m a great admirer of Jefferson, and know his works fairly well; however, even Jefferson was a dreamer, and hadn’t studied the anthropology and archeology that constitutes what Daniel Quinn calls “The Great Remembering.”

    So me? I wave the flag proudly, in conflicted deference to Jefferson’s dream of a “free State,” and I definitely don’t wave signs.

    “State” is just another phenomenon that has to be dealt with, like a lion. If you say the lion is an illusion, shouldn’t exist, blah blah blah, and act stupid around a lion, you’ll just get clawed, possibly eaten. I give it a fair berth.

  • MB: Oh yeah, I’m one the Teh Gawdless Libruhlz ’round these Red State parts too, because I have critical thinking skills. And then we’ve got Teh Gawdless Libruhlz in the comments who want to shut me up, because I have critical thinking skills.

    So I’ve taken Thomas Jefferson’s viewpoint:

    “I am of a sect by myself.”
    ~Thomas Jefferson, letter to Ezra Stiles June 25, 1819

  • Dr. McPherson does not have to flaunt his colours: a lion does not have to roar.

  • Also, Dr. McPherson’s colours do not include putting down others.

  • Robin, you said I “showed my colors” when I alluded to the fact that I’m a white landowner — just like Guy is a white landowner too.

    So what “colors” are we white landowners “showing” you in your fevered imagination? hmmm?

  • putting down others

    Like I said, if you can’t take it, don’t dish it out. Talk to your mommy about that, since she obviously failed to instill that simple lesson that most 7 year olds understand.

  • One’s upbringing shows in one’s lack of respect for parents – one’s own or others’. Such deep deformities of personality are hard to rectify or conceal.