Catch me on the radio, on the television, at the movies, and live

Sunday, 21 April 2013, 9:00 p.m. Eastern Daylight Saving Time on the Lifeboat Hour with Michael C. Ruppert (embedded below)

Monday, 22 April 2013, 7:00 p.m. Eastern Daylight Saving Time on the Progressive Commentary Hour with Gary Null (embedded below)

26 April 2013 on Feed Your Head with Ruthann Amarteifio (embedded below)

Listen to internet radio with AirAmarteifioRadio on Blog Talk Radio

Thursday, 2 May 2013, 7:30 p.m. Eastern Daylight Saving Time on Arizona Horizon with Ted Simons

Saturday, 4 May 2013, 7:00 p.m., premiere showing of Mike Sosebee’s film, Somewhere in New Mexico before the End of Time, Gallagher Theater, Memorial Student Union, 1303 East University Boulevard, University of Arizona, Tucson, Arizona (Q & A to follow). Description in the Tucson Citizen is here. Please spread the word about this event, and invite your friends via Facebook here.

Premiere poster

Monday, 6 May 2013, 6:30 p.m., showing of Mike Sosebee’s film, Somewhere in New Mexico before the End of Time, Unitarian Universalist Church, 3845 North Swan Street, Silver City, New Mexico (described in the Grant County Beat here)

Tuesday, 7 May 2013, 12:30 p.m. Eastern Daylight Saving Time on the Gary Null show (Progressive Radio Network)

17 May through 22 May 2013, speaking tour including Hudson, New York (Hudson Basilica), Yorktown (Hilltop Hanover Farm), and perhaps New York City (Brooklyn Commons) and other venues. If you’re interested, stay tuned to the “Coming events” tab for updates.

23-27 May 2013, The Age of Limits: Conversations on the Collapse of the Global Industrial Model, south-central Pennsylvania. I’ll present twice: (1) “Forbidden Fruit: The Low-Hanging Fruit of Empire” on Saturday at 6:00 p.m. and (2) “Rapid, Unpredictable and Non-linear Responses” on Sunday at 2:30 p.m.

Age of Limits poster 2013


Let’s evaluate and criticize ideas, not people.

Comments 121

  • Best of luck on the tour. Getting the message out is first step. There has to be a bit of discouragement in people refusing to listen especially on a subject as serious as this. Cheers.

  • I’ll try to make the New Mexico showing.

    “Monday, 6 May 2013, 6:30 p.m., showing of Mike Sosebee’s film, Somewhere in New Mexico before the End of Time, Unitarian Universalist Church, 3845 North Swan Street, Silver City, New Mexico (described in the Grant County Beat here)”

  • Back in the 70’s Ted Patrick made a name for himself deprogramming cult members usually commissioned by family members. The goal was to force a person to abandon allegiance to a religious, political, economic, or social group. Methods and practices may involve kidnapping and coercion. The person in question is taken against his/her will, which has led to controversies over freedom of religion, kidnapping and civil rights, as well as the violence which is sometimes involved.

    Groucho Marx once quipped that he wasn’t interested in “belonging to a group that might have me as a member. Well we’re all members of this worldwide cult (industrialism) that has been conditioned to believe absurdities such as “infinite growth on a finite planet”. I can’t speak for Guy McPherson but I have no delusions that our little film will halt the icecaps melting or the stupidity of Americans.

    As Joe Bageant said: “I have relatives that sincerely believe that one of Noah’s chores on the Ark was feeding the dinosaurs. The problem is it’s not just my relatives. There are 10’s of millions in the fly-over zones that think the same way.”

    What would it take to bring a barbaric and infantile culture to “Jesus” as they say in Louisiana? Maybe we could seize a mega-church in Dallas for a couple of weeks and force them to listen to Guy McPherson lectures. LOL

    Deprogramming is commissioned by relatives, often parents of adult offspring, who object to someone’s membership in an organization or group. It was started in the 1970s in the United States by Ted Patrick.

  • I have 3 family members that no longer talk to me because I believe in what you are doing and saying. I’m sure you have tons too. Keep going and I love your approach scary but enlightnening. Sometimes the truth is. I would love to come to the New Mexico screening hope to meet you someday

  • Coming to terms with NTE is a neverending process, with very few ups and a ton of downs, going deeper and deeper and deeper. For me, it really started in the 1970s. But, there is an infinitely tiny goddess particle hidden in the circomvolutions of my brain, a pea bosom (like the pea under the 36 mattresses), that will stubbornly refuse to admit NTE until long after the end. Have a good day of the sun, all.

  • New Video: Arctic Ice – The Death Spiral Continues

  • You can watch the Thin Ice movie streaming online starting now through tomorrow (Earth Day) for free:

    It is interviews with climate scientists about the work they do.

  • Dr. McPherson interviewed by Michael Ruppert:
    Lifeboat Hour – April 21, 2013

    Sometime back you put up how one could get to the last comment previously read on these pages so we wouldn’t have to scroll endlessly to find the latest comment. Can you please tell me how to do that once again?

    Copy the URL to the comment of interest and paste it into Notes (in IOS) or WordPad or Microsoft Word (in Windows). Later click on that URL and it will come up in your default browser.

    If you use NotePad in Windows you will have to re-copy the URL and paste it into the URL window in a browser since NotePad does not support hotlinks. If you want to bring up WordPad in Windows, type “WordPad” into the start box on the bottom left of the Windows Desktop. Good for everything from XP to Windows 7. Don’t have and don’t know anything about Windows 8.

    And yes, in NotePad, WordPad and Microsoft Word it is necessary to save the document containing the URL. Best to save it to the desktop and with each new URL “Select All”, “Paste” and Save”.

  • All deprogramming and reprogramming is the peeling off and pasting of labels. The presumption is that somewhere underlying all the layers of labels there is something called the “I”.

    The ultimate deprogramming (and indeed the ultimate reprogramming) is to peel off every last label which leads one to grok at the deepest level that there never was, is not, and will never be an “I”.

    The deepest layers of labels are exceedingly subtle and correspondingly difficult to perceive. As long as they remain, the phantasm of the “I” also remains. But grokking that a label is present and that it is only a label is tantamount to peeling it off. And with the peeling off of the last label all that remains is The One without a second.

  • Do the Math screening report – Gail pegged the movie correctly from just viewing the trailer. She wrote I hadn’t bothered until now because I’m very familiar with the 350 position and I know that they are only doing “half” the math – the other half (or more) being the amplifying feedbacks and the consumerism of industrial civilization and exponential growth of our population. And I’ve been disgusted with the cult of personality of the self-designated leaders of the Big Green NGO’s – even so I was taken aback by the adulation in the film. Ugh. That about covers it. The problem is all the big evil fuel companies, and we don’t have to do anything but stop them and promote alternative energy. Then all will be well. Nothing about changing lifestyle. Get universities and other groups to divest and protest is all I saw offered. And wow isn’t McKibben a hero.

    The crowd was not a crowd but a few people. After the movie they wanted to watch the online streaming panel discussion of the movie rather than discuss it together. We left.

    So I didn’t put everyone’s help to use, but I did note that my asking for help promoted some come together, non acrimonious discussion on NBL. Egads we who see are so few why do we fight. Perhaps it has something to do with being the type of people who do see?

  • “Endoscene”. Good one, Guy. Please come to north Georgia to speak. I wii house and feed you. Also chauffeur.

  • The problem is logistics. We cannot “End Industrial Civilization” quick enough, and we certainly cannot in any kind of orderly way. I mean, seriously, what do you do with all the dead bodies and all the infrastructure that needs to be safely dismantled? Are these topics even discussed by those spreading the Collapse message?

    The best we can hope for NOW would be a pandemic that kills 6 billion people yet somehow spares nuclear power plant workers so they can shut them down before the last one of them succumbs.

    As discussed many times here, I assume TPTB already have their plans. However, I’m not sure if their plan is to just ride the train over the cliff in luxury or if they think they can somehow MANAGE the collapse and come out on top.

    If TPTB are going to successfully navigate the many logistical dilemmas of Collapse they WILL need a large number of taskmasters. And, since joining the Resistance is essentially futile, I’m thinking maybe I should apply for one of the taskmaster positions! If you can’t beat ’em, join ’em!

  • Art Matters! Thank you Guy! The Thin Ice movie has a really good explanation about the issue of oxygen molecules being bound up by CO2, if you haven’t seen it (from a female scientist in New Zealand).

  • Gail, the Thin Ice movie is splendid! Solid proof that Co2 causes global warming, scientific proof that even I can understand. It is particularly sobering in that it deals only with effects caused by Co2 without regard to the ferocity of the feedback loops known to be occurring right now, the tipping points tipped. Thank you so much for that link.

  • BTW, Happy Earth funeral day everyone! :(

    Poll Finds Americans Less Concerned About The Environment Now Than When Earth Day Began

  • So, Guy, does the guy who wrote the song you link to read your blog? He should “come out” as a doomer. The truth will set him free! Stop the secrets! He’s written a catchy tune. Much better than White Trash, IMHO. HOWEVER, I don’t understand the hopium comment you make in the song…..

    Forgive me, whomever posted the link to the movie “Obey”….it was very good. Nice summary of where we’ve been and where we’re going. And Gail, it also mentions art and artists. FYI.

  • wildwoman, he reads NBL, at least occasionally. I delivered the presentation from which he extracted my words in February 2012, which explains the hopium.

  • WildW, I actually posted “Obey” in March, I thought it was really good. Maybe I should start painting again and give up on writing, it’s useless…and difficult. Here’s something cheery for all the gardeners here, why not?

  • I wanted to thank you for your work. I really appreciate it. In the last year I have been pairing down my “stuff” and needs while trying to educate my family of how dire things are. I have started with the small conversations of resources and population and slowly bringing up other ideas. I can tell people understand it but it is getting past the denial part is hard. This whole thing is making me put things in perspective about what is important. I have to laugh at the whole pro-life argument when we are all facing extinction at this point. I am living here in Reno and we having extremely dry weather for the past 2 winters, although it was cold the snow pack is decreasing and Lake Tahoe has some huge issues.

  • i’m sorry this one isn’t pleasant and lovely like Gail’s link.

    Sadie i like your interpretation! – It makes great sense and here’s the original scene:

    The James Bond Martini Recipe – Casino Royale
    Guest Author – Lisa Shea

    Casino Royale was written by Ian Fleming as the first ever James Bond book in 1953. Ian was a commander who worked with naval intelligence in the war – he really did lead a life of high stake gambling in exotic locations. He wrote this book from his homestead “Goldeneye” in Jamaica.

    When Bond first meets some French agents, he orders for them. The guy gets a “fine a l’eau” – a classic cocktail of Cognac and water. The girl gets a “Bacardi” (rum, my favorite brand). It doesn’t say that James gets anything for himself. The first drink we see James drink is a straight whisky ‘on the rocks’ (quotes theirs) in his room.

    Next, in the casino, we get the first ever description of his classic drink. Here’s the verbatim text from the book:


    “Bond insisted on ordering Leither’s Haig-and-Haig ‘on the rocks’ [a quality Scotch whiskey – Lisa] and then he looked carefully at the barman.

    ‘A dry martini,’ he said. ‘One. In a deep champagne goblet.’

    ‘Oui, monsieur.’

    ‘Just a moment. Three measures of Gordon’s [an English gin – Lisa], one of vodka, half a measure of Kina Lillet. [this is NOT vermouth – see below!] Shake it very well until it’s ice-cold, then add a large thin slice of lemon peel. Got it?’

    ‘Certainly, monsieur.’ The barman seemed pleasant with the idea.

    ‘Gosh that’s certainly a drink,’ said Leiter.

    Bond laughed. ‘When I’m … er … concentrating.’ he explained, ‘I never have more than one drink before dinner. But I do like that one to be large and very strong and very cold and very well-made. I hate small portions of anything, particularly when they taste bad. This drink’s my own invention. I’m going to patent it when I can think of a good name.’

    He watched carefully as the deep glass became frosted with the pale golden drink, slightly aerated by the bruising of the shaker. He reached for it and took a long sip.

    ‘Excellent,’ he said to the barman, ‘but if you can get a vodka made with grain instead of potatoes, you will find it still better.’


    A short while later when he’s sharing a carafe of vodka, nestled in a bowl of crushed ice, with the female agent, he learns her name is Vesper. He says:

    ‘Can I borrow it?’ He explained about the special martini he had invented and his search for a name for it. ‘The Vesper,’ he said. ‘It sounds perfect and it’s very appropriate to the violet hour when my cocktail will now be drunk all over the world. Can I have it?’

    Lillet and Vermouth
    Note that some claim that Kina Lillet is a vermouth. It is NOT A VERMOUTH :) My research shows Lillet Kina is a wine based drink that has quinine in it. Kina refers to the Kina Kina (quinquina) tree where quinine comes from. In fact back in the James Bond days it was VERY bitter and the entire drink would have been quite bitter. They changed the formula in the mid-80s to have less quinine, and now it comes in “Lillet Blanc” and “Lillet Rouge”. They’re made in Podensac, in France. Technically they are “French aperitif wines”. They are a blend of wine grapes, oranges, orange peels and quinine.

    Vermouth, on the other hand, is a fortified wine – i.e. wine kicked up with heavy alcohol. They then add in herbs and spices. The main types of vermouth are dry vermouth, sweet red vermouth, and white vermouth.

    by comparion:

    Definition: Vermouth is a fortified wine that is aromatized with a variety of herbs and spices. There are a few varieties of vermouth available, the most common are dry or white vermouth and sweet or red vermouth. The use of vermouth as a modifier has defined many of the classic cocktails, most notably, sweet vermouth in a Manhattan and dry vermouth in a Martini. Those drinks that use an equal amount of sweet and dry vermouth are referred to as perfect.

  • Think the up and coming kids are ready for collapse?

    Children as young as four are becoming so addicted to smartphones and iPads that they require psychological treatment.

    Dr Graham said that young technology addicts experienced the same withdrawal symptoms as alcoholics or heroin addicts, when the devices were taken away.

    He warned that the condition prevented young people from forming normal social relationships, leaving them drained by the constant interaction.

    Parents who have found themselves unable to wean their children off computer games and mobile phones are paying up to £16,000 for a 28-day “digital detox” programme designed by Dr Graham at the Capio Nightingale clinic in London

  • “I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them.”
    — Ian Fleming, “You Only Live Twice”

    Kathy C says: Do the Math screening report – ….The problem is all the big evil fuel companies, and we don’t have to do anything but stop them and promote alternative energy. Then all will be well.

    Protesters, please nota bene;
    While resource extraction screws many,
    Be more analytical,
    Less hypocritical:
    Against fossil fuels? Don’t use any.

  • Be more analytical,
    Less hypocritical:
    Against fossil fuels? Don’t use any.

    What do you call using a computer?

  • Ripley says: What do you call using a computer?

    Hey, Ripley, thanks for asking! I was sort of riffing on Kathy’s point. Blaming the oil companies is tres chic, but, like, hello? It’s not entirely legitimate.

    The joke, of course, is a direct ripoff of the bumper sticker from long ago: “Against abortion? Don’t have one.” Some years later, I think I read that it wasn’t as ubiquitous everywhere in the country as it was here in the Bay Area, so I was hoping the joke would still be new to some people.

    Me? I support kicking the can, and using what we’ve got. Like the internet. We’re gonna miss it when it’s gone.

  • Seeing as I gave Bill McKibben and a bit of a kicking, now it’s permaculture’s turn.

    This post I just read on NC is full of nonsense, e.g. “Care of the earth”, The Earth did fine for 4 billion years or more, WITHOUT US, it doesn’t need or want US to care for it, this stupid ignorant hubristic arrogant conceit that WE can care for the Earth is just an extension of the same insanity that got us into this mess in the first place….

    Yes, we could stop, cease, desist from, messing up and trashing the biosphere, but it’s all a bit too little and too late for that now, seeing as there is nothing and nowhere, on the entire planet’s surface that has not been changed by our activity, to a greater or lesser degree, and we have absolutely no idea how to fix any of it, other than to leave it alone, which NOBODY has any intention of doing.

    Then there is this delusional bullshit about Zones“Zones 2 – 5 are a little bit less interaction, and a little bit less needy, and so Zone 5 is actually the wild forest that you don’t touch.”

    That made some sense in Australia, possibly, when Mollison first thought about Permaculture, maybe makes some sense in other parts of the world, the Taiga or Congo, perhaps, but makes NO sense in Europe, especially not in Britain, where there is NO SUCH THING as ‘wild forest’ and has not been for several thousand years, every bit of land has been effected by, ‘touched’ by, human activity, and continues to be, and even if people don’t actually go there often and interfere, it’s still in no sense ‘wild’ or ‘natural’ or ‘virgin’ or ‘pristine’, it’s subjected to all kinds of pollution in the air, to traffic on roads going through it, planes overhead, agricultural runoff in the waterways, invasive foreign species, acid rain, a zillion other man made influences.

    The entire landscape of Britain, and most of Europe, is artificial, manmade, the result of thousands of years of human interference. If anybody wants to try and keep any of the rather special parts, like rare species, unique habitats, etc, then this permaculture Zone crap, is totally hopeless. It’s ignorant romantic sentimental nonsense.

    I’m strongly in favour of attempting to keep as much biodiversity surviving for as long as possible. What that needs is highly trained, highly skilled, very knowledgeable, professional scientific conservationists who can try, against terrible odds, to preserve habitat. Much of that habitat is NOT NATURAL, in the sense that, if just neglected, as permaculturalists would do, Zone 5, it would vanish. For example, heathland, which has some of the rarest species, only exists because of certain type of grazing regime by herbivores. If you take them away, it does become scrub then forest, and the last remaining habitat for the heathland species is gone forever, and they become extinct.

    So, human intervention is essential. Zone 5 is stupidity and ignorance. The reason for this apparent conflict, is that permaculture is basically anthropocentric, a system designed by humans for humans. It’s small-minded. It’s not looking at the system as a whole. The only good part about it, is that it’s not as bad as what everybody else is doing. It’s still crap.

    There is nothing in the permaculture approach which does anything to help wild species survive, unless they happen accidentally, to be compatible with the permaculture design. That’s a huge flaw, imo, just as there’s nothing in permaculture to address the larger social and international problems, like nuclear reactors, nuclear weapons, biological warfare, nanotech, etc, etc, all the stuff that the mainstream dominant culture is rushing ahead with.

    It’s not that I’m against permaculture, anymore that I am against Bill McKibben, as if they are some sort of evil enemies, what I’m against is the illusions, the mirages, that there is some sort of solution or answer or fix.
    You know, it’s the snake oil thing. That bottle containing the secret ingredients that supposedly cured just about anything, from insomnia to indigestion to baldness to warts. People are selling permaculture as if it was a cure-all. It’s not. Sorry. We’re f****d. We need to face that horrible truth.

    I think people should do whatever they think themselves is the best thing to do, the best way to spend their time. I don’t think there is ANY CHANCE that we can avoid this whole NTE collapse mess. I don’t think it matters the slightest bit whether you agree with me or not. I still think the honourable thing to do is to fight for the wildlife and for the biosphere, because that’s what I love and where my own loyalty lies.

  • Something to ponder from the perspective of NTE:

    Think back, way back. Beyond last week or last year … to what was happening on Earth 100,000 years ago. Or 100 million years ago.

    Deep Time

  • Must say I’m not a big fan of the music in these shows, lack of swing, Wagner? Come on, Nietzsche, Baudelaire, Rimbaud, saw all that coming.
    Try Satie or something :

  • Yes, it’s all futile, there is only one solution to the problem: 6 billion people have to die soon, but in an orderly manner so that the toxic aspects of the infrastructure can be dismantled.

    This is the ONLY solution. Even now, it’s too late for any kind of soft landing even if this solution is implemented, but, it’s the only chance humans have – and it’s certainly the only chance that LIFE has.

    Now, where to begin?

    It seems probable TPTB have in mind a full-scale militarization of the planet, genocide and slave camps, etc. This will not really solve the problem, just ensure their continued rein through to the last days of humans. TPTB are not going to be setting up sustainable communities…

  • yt75 – thanks so much! Van Gogh depicted the natural world with a vivid passion that is unparalleled – and the music is lovely too. What a tender pairing.

    I haven’t seen this yet, only the trailer, but I’m thinking I’ll download it tonight –

    should be great for those of us who seek “interconnectivity” and even for those of us who don’t, it looks spectacular!

  • There is fear in Japan that some increase in activity might indicated more earthquake activity in the future.

    [Sign of Mt. Fuji activity?] Large landslide happened in 100km from Mt. Fuji, 80m high, 70m wide
    Posted by Mochizuki on April 23rd, 2013

    On 4/23/2013, a large landslide suddenly took place in Shizuoka prefecture.

    It’s 70m wide and the height is 80m. 22 people of 6 households were told to evacuate. 2 days before the landslide, they found the ground crack of 15cm wide and 150m long.

    The width increased at 3mm/h on 4/21/2013, 4mm/h on 4/22/2013. The location is Tenryu ku Hamamatsu city, where is in the west of 100km from Mt. Fuji. The land was tea plantation.

    On 4/3/2013, Fukushima Diary reported that mass death of fish was found in Tenryu river of this city. Strong alkaline was detected from water.

    (cf, Strong alkaline detected from river where 11,000 young sweetfish found dead [URL])

    Additionally on 4/8/2013, the serious ground fissure was found in a woodland path of Mt. Fuji.

    (cf, Takizawa woodland path in Mt. Fuji having the serious ground fissure [URL 2])

  • @ pat

    Nobody wants to be in this mess, do they. It’s not like a simple good versus bad problem. There isn’t an answer that anyone would say ‘Okay, that’s the obvious good route’, because every route looks absolutely dreadful.
    That’s why nothing gets done, and everything just drifts towards dystopia. Nobody knows what to do.

    You know, what’s worse, death by famine, or from radiation, or from disgusting chemical additives in food, or in FEMA camps, or by bombs and war, or whatever, or just a wretched life in favelas with open sewers amidst heaps of rotting garbage or fighting guerilla wars in the jungle. It’s all hell. And if you’re lucky-ish, like me, in a nice place, you still have to watch the ghastly spectacle as everything unravels.

    But I want people to FACE it. Not to pretend that it’s not happening and kid themselves that there’s some rosy easy cuddly option. The Zone 5 thing is an example. Gail posted a great example on the last thread. Unless the permies are going to mount armed guards and patrol their damned Zone 5, they’ll go there one morning and find it’s all been clear felled in the night by the meth-heads next door. What they gonna do then ?

    Or else all the trees have died because of climate change and disease, and the collapse of the local ecology. What they gonna do then ?

    Making movies, singing songs

  • 2nd and last post for today:

    Everything has already been said. Guy said it in Aug 2007:

    The end of civilization and the extinction of humanity

    I wonder what happened to the dozen or so commenters that commented to that blog post… where are they now?

    I really don’t think I have anything else to say – strike up the band, raise a glass, and be kind to strangers while you still can.

  • @U,
    But I want people to FACE it. Not to pretend that it’s not happening and kid themselves that there’s some rosy easy cuddly option.

    But U, I am curious why it is so important that people face it, when you yourself admit that it is beyond hopeless? So if people are lost in lala land, they are obviously in happier than you and me, eh? No brain no pain!

  • On Democracy Now today Jeremy Scahill: The Secret Story Behind Obama’s Assassination of Two Americans in Yemen

    I found his ending comments to be most interesting

    You know, you have to look at how you treat people that you despise and what access do you give them and what rights do you give them in a society. That defines who you are, just like when a president is in power who you support, or maybe you voted for, or you think is a great guy, your principles are tested by where you stand when they’re doing things or implementing policies that you would have opposed if the other guy had won. And so, you know, we have a crisis of conscience right now in our country also, where people are—it’s like, you know, partisan lemmings just going off the cliff. If McCain had won that election, there’s no way that you’d see polls—70 percent of liberals supporting drone strikes. No way. Obama has sold liberals a bill of goods and has convinced them that this is a smarter, cleaner way to wage wars. And it’s just not.

  • @ Bailey

    But U, I am curious why it is so important that people face it, when you yourself admit that it is beyond hopeless? So if people are lost in lala land, they are obviously in happier than you and me, eh? No brain no pain!

    I’m not unhappy, Bailey. I want people to face the truth, the reality, to make an honest assessment. In so far as it is possible, I want them to understand what is really happening, what is really going on. Obviously, I can’t force them, most don’t want to know, the majority don’t even have the capacity to understand. But I still think they should be given the opportunity. So that they can make an informed choice, so that they can live in full awareness, not being deceived.

    I know this is all terribly difficult. Like others here, I’ve fallen out with family members and relatives over these issues. I’ve disassociated myself from the mainstream soceity, on ethical grounds, as a matter of principle. As the situation, and my personal insight, has developed over the years, it’s become ever more difficult.

    As things are developing now, especially in USA, people are being deliberately manipulated by these horrible staged terror events, to cause great fear, anger, confusion, hatred, polarisation, and I think this is horrifying. People will respond just as they have before, in the French Revolution, in Nazi Germany, and similar occasions, by seeing some Other, as the cause of their distress. This is very frightening, very sinister, very troubling.

  • I agree with U., and I would add that it seems valuable to live while sharing some common version of reality with those around one.

    Psychologically I find myself at a breaking point not because we may all soon die horribly, but because I feel like Alice gone behind the Looking-Glass. I find the occasions where I am supposed to be sociable insupportable, and I have a difficult time making allegiances where the only approved activity is to enhance “growth”, even if the VT version is supposedly “smarter” than the RI or NJ or AZ version.
    BCNurseProf, I think, described it pretty well when she talked about her colleagues and friends just going “blah, blah, blah, blah” at her.

  • blah blah blah is right
    there is no point in any of this, it’s already decided. better get ready for cannibals running amok – your garden and guns will be overrun – you have no hope, there is no answer, you will be killed for your silver and gold.

  • @ Lidia

    As a social animal, to be banished from the group is the most feared punishment. But this is most interesting for the shaman, the seeker of visions, to be the wandering outcast alone in the desert, because of the intense pressure, breaking all the culturally-constructed frameworks of reality. Just as you say, through the Looking Glass. Odd individuals have known this experience for aeons.

    It’s in the earliest buddhist texts. Leave soceity, go into the mountains to a cave, or deep into the forest, sit beneath a tree. The buddha recommended certain practices to contemplate the deeper meaning of existence. Later, those teachings were added to taoist teaching which had another angle on the notion. Of course, it’s not restricted to Asia, the same theme occurs everywhere, the vision quest, in one form or another. What it means for me, personally, via zen, is being independent from what you call “some common version of reality”.

    Of course, this is no help for most people. I acknowledge that. I also empathise with the sense of stress and foreboding. I do wish there was something I could do.

    As far as I can tell, there appears to be some co-ordinated concealed covert force in the background who are responsible for these atrocities. What name to give them, I do not know. But I think the modus operandi is fairly clear. They plan the events and surround them with as much confusion as possible so that every sector of soceity will respond in a predictable manner and can be played and directed. Terror as a political tool. They can get all the data almost instantly and analyse it statistically to see how their plan needs to be tuned to get what they want. Divide and rule. One portion thinks Boston was faked, another thinks it was genuine, the Boston police thought they were hunting a guy who had a nuke, they can play off the FBI against Homeland Security against the CIA against the National Guard, whatever, they tell each sector part of the story, play everybody against everybody else, give the media lots of red herrings and disinfo, everything is a cloud of trickery behind which the real purpose, whatever that may be, can be achieved. Maybe there isn’t even any real purpose. Just soften up the administrative machinery and the population, keep it unstable and off balance.

    Whoever those people are, Saudis, Israelis, British, the same nexus of power that has been running things in the background for many decades, via the covert agencies, human life means nothing, merely pawns on a chessboard. I used to think, years ago, that the American so called right wing militia and patriot groups that were so fanatical about their guns were batshit crazy. There is no equivalent in Britain. But after 9/11 and Sandy Hook and now Boston, I wouldn’t trust the US Federal Gvt one inch. Not about anything. I’d want to keep my guns, for sure.

    But then I read the liberal intellectuals, whom I really like very much, who are really against firearms. But they don’t have a clue. They think that the game will be played fairly, by decent people who stick to rules. They’ve never learned what it’s like to be streetwise and live on your wits.

    The ugly thing is, people will be forced to choose sides, just like in the French Revolution, and then they’ll think that the problem will be solved if they eliminate all the people who are not like them, and, just as in the French Revolution, the list of people who need to be eliminated gets longer, and keeps changing, and the whole thing becomes a bloody mess that nobody can control anymore. It’s not an answer or a solution, it’s a disaster, a catastrophe, but that doesn’t stop it happening, or mean that anybody can prevent it, once it starts.

    This Boston bombing is straight out of Hitler’s 1930’s tactics, and Operation Gladio. Now, all that stuff can be done much more effectively, with supercomputers and instant feedback. Hollywood effects and control of the media. Obama isn’t Hitler. He’s a frontman, a puppet. I have no idea who the real people are, although I can guess. Everybody is being played. Well, maybe not us, here at NBL. I’d like to think we are all much too wacky for anyone to make any sense of us :-)

  • Has anyone stopped to consider that in the future you yourself may become, should become, one of these so called cannibal, zombie, killers?

    I’m reminded of Orlov’s comment to the effect that ” its not you who can survive, its the person you can’t imagine being that is and will.”

    The kids who already rob and steal and kill to make it another day… don’t have shit to fear about collapse.

    I won’t try and make too grand of an assumption, but I’m guessing that most people who post here still have way too much baggage, way too much to lose in civilization to remotely make the first cut.

    What I’m getting at is why do people create this “other” who is out to get them? It only shows your hand. You aren’t thinking of yourself as the other who has what it takes to “will to power.”

    I have to laugh at these soft white intestines!

    If you haven’t already, make yourself a future you, a person who is already living, acting, talking, looking like and thinking as if its all fucked.

    Cause its all fucked. I was born into a fucked world and you better believe that my people, the ones who never contributed one bit to this problem, eyeball those who did.

    Ceos, hippies, intellectuals, yuppies, hipsters, those over thirty, anyone who is wetiko… all good for nothing.

    Ever notice the solidarity among street kids, the homeless? Do you even remotely have that kind of loyalty anywhere in your life?

    If you aren’t already uncomfortable, an outsider,looked down on by civilization then you are civilization and I bid you an early farewell.

    No sympathy for the repentant. No remorse for the fearful.

    Jaws like a wolf, eyes like an eagle.

    Only seek the marvelous. And suck the marrow of life!

  • U wrote:

    “There is no equivalent in Britain. But after 9/11 and Sandy Hook and now Boston, I wouldn’t trust the US Federal Gvt one inch. Not about anything. I’d want to keep my guns, for sure.

    But then I read the liberal intellectuals, whom I really like very much, who are really against firearms. But they don’t have a clue. They think that the game will be played fairly, by decent people who stick to rules. They’ve never learned what it’s like to be streetwise and live on your wits.”

    I’m not a “right wing fanatic”, but thank you for writing that from the perspective of someone removed from the scene.

    The kid accused, and assumed guilty by the media, is being brought up on charges of using a WMD when it was a pressure cooker. So now a pressure cooker is a WMD along with nukes and bioweapons. Pressure cookers have been removed from store shelves in the US because they are WMD’s.

    A background check is now required to buy a dog in North Carolina.

    BHO lost the gun control fight in congress, so, against the demonstrated will of the people he passes EO’s to further infringe on the second amendment. All this while he approves 10B in arms sales to governments in the Middle East and allows arms sales to countries known to force children to become soldiers, while the drone strikes kill thousands of innocent civilians and children.

    His administration will gladly sell or simply give all the small arms and high tech weaponry to any government they wish, while he and many like him do not want me to buy a rifle. Guns for governments, none for citizens.

  • Background check to buy a dog:

    Is it me or is it beyond ridiculous that I can’t buy a pressure cooker or buy a dog without a background check?

  • BenjaminTheDonkey Says:

    Be more analytical,

    Less hypocritical:

    Against fossil fuels? Don’t use any.

    Ripley says: What do you call using a computer?

    I was sort of riffing on Kathy’s point. Blaming the oil companies is tres chic, but, like, hello? It’s not entirely legitimate.

    Me? I support kicking the can, and using what we’ve got. Like the internet. We’re gonna miss it when it’s gone.

    Well, I did think it was strange that you, Kathy, Bailey, and some of the others seemed a bit obsessed with criticizing people who were active in trying to stop various oil company projects. I’ve noticed this concern fairly frequently on this blog, but it has been almost like a mantra lately. It’s especially strange when you consider that for every one person trying to organize against the oil companies, there must be at least a thousand people who support your strategy of “kicking the can.” Since your strategy has won over the vast majority, there should be no need to be so concerned with the activities of this tiny minority that you outnumber so massively. I think if you keep this broader perspective, the worries that many of you obviously have that people might drop your the kick the can strategy and join those fools who attack the oil companies should be allayed. Relax, the vast majority agrees with you–you’ve won, don’t worry, celebrate!

  • @ Anthony

    … thank you for writing that from the perspective of someone removed from the scene.

    Thanks, Anthony.

    Yes, the idea that a pressure cooker is a WMD, is straight out of the Onion, and makes USA, once the leader of the world, now a cheap joke in every bar on the planet. I think that’s highly significant. Once Obama, supposedly the most powerful leader on Earth, becomes ridiculed by everyone everywhere, goes into history as the man who banned the pressure cooker, his stature is gone.

    And now I see they try to use Tamerlan Tsarnaev as a way to smear Alex Jones and preppers and survivalists, so it becomes clear, just as Sandy Hook was staged as black op to seize guns, Boston was and is, another move, and I expect it won’t be long before its permaculturalists and anyone else who doesn’t fit into the dominant corporate Monsantoesque Goldman-Sachs Raytheon Halliburton Exxon etc, etc, mega machine.

    Obviously, I understand that the situation is a lot more complicated than I was able to express in previous comment that was already quite long, and there are many, many other factions and sub-groups, and Europe and America are very different, even the political terms change their meanings as they cross the Atlantic. My impression of the militias and patriot movements was mostly formed by the BBC tv when I still watched and trusted it many years ago. It’s all become outdated by events.

    In US terms, politically, 20 years ago, I’d have been at the green anarchist area of the spectrum, and I’d have seen reactionary conservatives as more of an obstacle to my personal ideals than liberal progressives. As things are today, whilst I’m appalled at the anti-science, the ignorance, of the T-party-ish end of the spectrum, and the mad xenophobia, hating gays, muslims, mexicans, jews, anybody really who doesn’t conform to an approved stereotype, all of that crap, it’s all awful, but I can see their point of view.
    You see, there are people just like that in this country, and I can TALK to them and get along with them. That doesn’t mean I agree with them. They’re dumb. But I can still have a laugh and complain about stuff and talk about weird things like the Loch Ness Monster that everybody has an opinion about, without getting into a fight. Here, they don’t have guns. Politically, these poor people are just chewed up and used and spat out by forces that despise them.

    Then there’s the soft liberal middle class educated ones. What alexander hawk said in the previous comment applies. I’m educated. A lot more than most. I’ve also lived in some very tough places, where any strange car coming down the street would likely be pelted with stones by 6 and 7 year old feral kids. Was it pat that said ‘Be kind to strangers’. Are you sure ? The cunning and ruthless exploit that as a vulnerability. When things really break down, being a stranger is not a very enviable place to be.

    Then there are the corporate capitalists and businessmen who are all eating each other, all the time already, and the elites who are plotting and scheming for their survival. And then there are the ones who are playing those dirty power games.

    It’s said that the Protocols of Zion were faked, nothing to do with the jews, black propaganda, by 19thC Tsarist secret police, and I’m quite happy to believe that. I’m quite happy to accept this present situation has nothing to do with any ethnic group. But the strategy in the Protocols could be used by anyone, to wreck any soceity. If you’ve read them, that’s what it looks like. Demoralise everybody, destroy all familiar structures, undermine all meaning and relationships, and so forth. Presumably, whoever is doing it, thinks they can ‘win’, but as this blog knows very well, NBL.

    Thing is, although, standing on the Beach of Doom, I’m fascinated to try and discern what’s going on, I don’t really have a dog in the race. I don’t care if the Chinese empire goes to war with India or if the USA annexes Canada or if Argentina gets the Falkland Islands back, because my personal loyalty is deep green, the wildlife, the biosphere, not some bunch of humans wanting to exert control over some other bunch of humans.
    If I can help anyone who sees it the way I do, sure, I’d like to do that.

  • @Ripley “Well, I did think it was strange that you, Kathy, Bailey, and some of the others seemed a bit obsessed with criticizing people who were active in trying to stop various oil company projects. I’ve noticed this concern fairly frequently on this blog, but it has been almost like a mantra lately.”

    I think you forgot Guy in your list. I think (and he can correct me if I am wrong) that he used the term disingenuous regarding the promotion of 350 degrees as where we had to return.

    The reason this is a current topic is because I asked for help in how to deal with my invitation to a Do the Math screening and then reported back. Its not a mantra, just a particular topic raised by a particular event.

    However I note that has a products store in which they sell products made using fossil fuels. As well intended projects take hold and become popular movements, they begin to do serious fund raising and compromise themselves with their tactics (endless paper mailed to elicit donations, selling of products etc.) I was on the ground floor when this change occurred in Habitat for Humanity. The soul of a good movement can be lost to its success.

    But that aside, the successful environmental movements all assert that we can have pretty much the same lifestyle without fossil fuels. Most of us here believe that is false. You will note that it is a bit harder to make a movement out of the premise that the only salvation is crashing industrial civ with the attendant hardships. The movements that promise you can still have your piece of the pie if you just end the evil fossil fuel companies by divestment and protest of course are far easier to stomach. But they are wrong and thus unintentionally deceiving people to do fruitless activities.

    Since it is all over, the feedbacks are operating on their own, it really doesn’t matter what does or doesn’t do. However there is no current mantra about them right now, just a discussion I started for input on what I might say at a Do the Math screening. These themes come and go….and we humans came and will go.

  • I agree – there is no chance of success for any cause trying to bring down industrial civilization – but hats off to those who choose to try anyway out of a personal conviction.

    The premise of NBL, IMO, is NTE



    That is all. There are only subtopics after that. One might argue that if one accepts NTE, why bother being on this blog or spending any time on a computer at all? IMO, we should all be drinking margaritas in South Florida! That’s what I’m wrestling with every single day – quitting my job, letting the bank have my house, and just wander the streets enjoying the last days of freedom before I become dinner for the marauding hordes or the FEMA bus snatches me up. I guess if I was religious I would be helping the poor or something like that.

  • Alexander Hawk says “The kids who already rob and steal and kill to make it another day… don’t have shit to fear about collapse.”

    Au contraire (eg Gypsy’s were a favorite Nazi targets), common street criminals are the first to go. As Orlov attempted to illustrate, the entire curve shifts to incorporate whole new population segments.

    IOW, those who have sufficient intelligence to provide for themselves without the need to operate outside the law find themselves no longer able to do so.

    As all species tend to go after low hanging fruit, what happens when tradesmen (carpenters, plumbers, etc) start competing with people who dropped out of school in 9th grade, and are by most accounts illiterate?

    Once they’ve taken over, however, what happens when engineers, FIRE professionals, etc are up next on the list? You see how this evolves? Ultimately, we’ll end up re-tracing history back to where we actually started.

    Consider for a moment what William the Conqueror and his cohorts looked like. For one, they were obviously the largest, most athletic, alpha males around. But, they were also the most cunning as well – stupid oafs got axed.

    This is where we’re going.

  • @B9K9

    “…stupid oafs got axed.

    This is where we’re going.”

    It’s good for the soil. 8-)

    Book Of Eli – Ring My Bell

  • so, wimpy little bureaucrats will be high on the list, that is good.

    I am always amazed when I’m at someone’s house and something comes up and we need a screwdriver for some reason or another and they either don’t have one or they have some ridiculous tool chest they bought at Wal-Mart that they only use to hang pictures with and they really don’t even know how to use a screwdriver – god forbid if we need a cordless drill! Many many many of our young people today fall into that category – if it doesn’t have a keyboard or a touchscreen, forget it. Maybe we should make Swiss I-Phones with foldout screwdrivers.

  • O.K. Ripley dude, “believe it or not” (I’ve been meaning to say that since I first saw your screen name here), you got me this time. I usually try to avoid telling people what to do in these limericks—I prefer a Greek chorus perspective—but I violated that rule here.

    Blame has been a big theme for me, not really when it’s against “legal person” corporations, but because it injures real people. But I’m not going to change that any more than I’m going to change how long the can gets kicked. Blaming is how human social animals have evolved to interact. As of today, I guess I gotta add that to my acceptance list. Fuck. I mean, thanks for helping me see that haha.

    I am, however, criticizing using petroleum products while thinking 100% of the blame belongs to the “I’d like my life back” Tony Hayward crowd (the people, not the legal shell they hide behind). Not because I think we should all live without oil, but in the interest of more accurate thinking.

    I’m not saying that kicking the can is for everybody, but I’m 70, and it works for me.

    Relax indeed, not because I’ve won anything, but because as far as changing overall course, nothing matters any more.

    Thanks for the feedback. I won’t make the same mistake again as long as I’m able to remember in my dotage, which should be at least two or three minutes after I now click “submit.”

  • Yes, Alexander hawk, I agree with you and Orlov about who is going to survive longest, and it won’t be any of us here. The way down will arrive in pockets here and there. It will be very ugly, very chaotic, and won’t follow any of the movies that you’ve seen or any of the books you have read. It won’t go down in the same order that it went up. There will be steps, some small, some large, all unbelievable to those who saw the top of this pile of shit.

    Morality and ethics are already gone. Now I see rational thought is going away, too. Predictable. This place is beginning to sound like the comment section of Zero Hedge. Otherwise rational people seize on any and all bits of nonsense they see on their screens to prove the craziest conspiracy theories going. Internet sleuths drawing big conclusions from tiny pieces of nothing, uploaded by people who also don’t know what they’re doing.

    I know people are going to jump all over me for saying this, but it doesn’t matter. I just want to go on record saying that I see all of these conspiracies as evidence that even the flimsiest trust in people and rational analysis is now gone. I file this under Orlov’s stage of social collapse and it’s helping mount the level of chaos, or entropy if you like.

    None of the following were orchestrated by some covert band of evil geniuses:

    Sandy Hook

    or any of the others. False flag! False flag! OMG! Most of the time, comments here are all about how stupid and incompetent the leaders, both elected and non-elected, public and corporate, are. But then when it comes to the cause of all this misery, some shadowy group is always posited as the enemy, the mad scientists and evil geniuses that plot our demise behind the scenes, coordinated in secret.

    You got it right the first time – they’re stupid. They couldn’t run a lemonade stand, much less plan and execute some large scale event and keep it quiet. None of them know what to do, but they have a lot of power to do stupid stuff, and very few of them agree with one another on anything. George Bush pere said that nuclear war was “winnable” ! They’ve all got competing ideas of how to treat the proles, how to keep the party going, how to “win” over others. Whoa. Just like us. Here. Imagine – people are people – a really fucked up species and destined for the scrap heap of evolutionary history. And we get to watch it all happen! And analyze it! And study it! And fight over who is right and who is wrong!


    Face it. No one knows what they’re doing and blames everyone else for their own lack of agency. This is the ultimate collapse – people are now isolated from friends, family and society. The inevitability of planetary destruction gets closer and closer. The stages of collapse proceed apace.

  • .
    Submission for Ripley’s

    I thought that by talking a lot
    I could alter life’s tragedy plot;
    We evolved with this knot
    So it didn’t mean squat:
    I’m that dumb. Believe it or not.

  • BC Nurse Prof, thank you for saying that!

    What was it….something like 5000 cops to capture 2 kids? Actually, not even, because one got killed in the process, big surprise. If that is the level of competence, they really ought to be ashamed, but I don’t see that evidenced. No conscience, no morality, no logic, no rational thinking, certainly no empathy or compassion.

    But, hey, the show got 42 million viewers. The ultimate reality show. I’m sure the networks would love another gripping portrayal of our fabulous men and women in uniform that are protecting our rights from these overzealous pressure cookers.

  • @ BC Nurse Prof
    None of the following were orchestrated by some covert band of evil geniuses:

    Jeez. Because you say so ?

    Waco, I don’t know, I never looked in any detail.
    9/11 I accepted the MSM news as it came in. Spent about 6 weeks mulling it over as I worked my garden. Seemed an awful lot of loose ends. Then came a BBC prog. that ‘explained’ all the anomalies. Spent another couple of months puzzling over those and looking on the internet, and finding a LOT of stuff. All the gaps got filled in since then. Sorry BC N P, if you accept the official version, we’re living in very different worlds.
    Then came London 7/7. Same deal.
    Then came Sandy Hook, now Boston.
    If ANYBODY believes the official version, I think you’re just very naive and not paying close attention.

    I think your model is completely wrong. Nobody is saying Bush planned and organised 9/11, or that Obama planned and organised Sandy Hook. You think there aren’t people who ARE capable of organising something like that ? That’s ridiculous. People organise events like that all the time, think of epic Hollywood movie scenes or the Olympic opening events or whatever or any major military exercise.

    The WHOLE POINT is to dupe people like you into believing it couldn’t possibly be a hoax. You know, this has been going on all through the last century, e.g. ever since Bernays, ever since Hitler’s Reichstag fire, ever since Operation Gladio, and you STILL don’t believe they do this stuff ?

    What’s so shocking and appalling is that they now mix up REAL murder and stage fakery. That way, half the population get outraged when the other half say it’s a hoax and vice versa, which is EXACTLY what they want, and they cause as much confusion as possible, so nobody can ever get a clear handle on anything and pin them down.

    Who the hell is ever going to come forward and state in public that they have solid evidence that proves that it was done by the authorities ? People have already DONE that. Nobody listens, they disappear, they get killed.

    You want me to believe the official story re SH, I’m more than happy to do so. Just show me the evidence. So far, I have seen NONE. I’ve followed it from the start, as closely as I could. You’re insulting my intelligence to say I’m into ‘conspiracy theories’. It’s no different to global warming. I want the evidence.

  • BEIJING/LONDON (Reuters) – A new bird flu strain that has killed 22 people in China is “one of the most lethal” of its kind and transmits more easily to humans than another strain that has killed hundreds since 2003, a World Health Organization (WHO) expert said on Wednesday.

    The H7N9 flu has infected 108 people in China since it was first detected in March, according to the Geneva-based WHO.

  • I think it’s obvious that TPTB have been working a LONG time on their plans for Collapse. Heck, they have been Collapse-Aware longer than most of us – they are not stupid, per se, they see the overpopulation problem, they see the “keeping up with the Joneses” problem that is driving China, India, etc. They know that there are not enough resources on the planet for EVERYONE to be “middle class” and they know that the poor masses are powerless to stop them. They control what’s important: The Money, The Governments, The Military and The Media.

    So, yes, they have the ability to manipulate everything we see. So, yes, they have the ability to mastermind large scale operations.

    You may not believe in 911 conspiracy theories, but who is to say that even if the “official” story is true – that it wasn’t masterminded by TPTB by funding Bin Laden, helping him along the way, and then, Most Importantly: NOT STOPPING IT FROM HAPPENING. There are subtle ways to influence events…

    TPTB have a plan. You can bet on that. They are winning their campaign to enslave or kill us all – but we all know that NTE will be the end of them as well, so justice will be served. The planet will be no use to any humans no matter who is the last man standing.

    As long as there are children in Haiti eating mudcakes and children in China working 16 hour shifts making I-Phones, then any able-bodied human born into priviledge is living in a state of grace. I can see that Resistance, for some, is a moral imperative even if it is hopeless.

    And, I would like to make a point that is very large on my mind:

    Some are actively resisting because it’s a moral imperative and some are “walking away from empire” to wage the battle of conscientious objector or to wash their hands of this whole bloody mess and some are living “business as usual” since it’s all for naught anyway (and, of course, some are completely clueless and some are members of TPTB). In all of this, it occurs to me, that many many people are going to die from famine, disease, and war, regardless of HOW it unfolds, so I ask myself, “What difference does it make?”

    The point is this: If you feed a starving child in Haiti, the child just grows up to make more starving children. That is not helping. If you make a condition on feeding the child that the child must never have children, then you are a fascist monster. If you simply do not help the child, then you are a monster. If you realize that many more will die tomorrow unless many die today and you unleash a pandemic upon the world to ensure a future for the survivors, you are a monster. There seems to be no answer to the dilemma.

  • @ BC Nurse

    You state:

    “I know people are going to jump all over me for saying this…..None of the following were orchestrated by some covert band of evil geniuses: 9-11, Waco, Sandy Hook, Boston…”

    Oh boy…….so you had to go and open that can of worms. OK, for the most part I’m with Ulvfugl on this one. Though I’ve yet to see enough damning evidence in regards to SH and Boston, you are totally off the mark in regards to 9/11. There is sooooooooooo much verifiable evidence proving a massive covert operation, that it makes your head spin, to think most people still accept the standard narrative.

    Ask yourself, why is it easier to believe the endlessly repeated conspiracy that a bunch of Arabs miraculously pulled off the greatest terrorist attack in US history, literally defying impossible odds, then believe any number of extremely well funded and connected covert organizations who have been undermining democracy for decades……didn’t?

    In my opinion, the most definitive book on the subject is William Blum’s “Killing Hope”, which details the last half century of US foreign intervention. He is no conspiracy nut and he doesn’t even touch on recent events. He writes for liberal/progressive TruthDig no less. But there is no way you, or anyone can read that book, and not know 9/11 was an inside job.

    As far as 9/11 goes, you have to look no further than building #7. This just requires a basic understanding of physics and basic observation. You don’t have to be a foil hat wearing conspiracy junkie to look at any number of the events surrounding 9/11 to know there is just no way that went down without massive planning from the inside.

    And look what just so happened to come of it: “the war on terror”. You think the largest bonanza for the military-industrial-complex was just an accident?

    But aside from that, I do hear what you’re saying, yes, there are a whole lot of conspiracy wackos out there, particularly in American, especially online. But please, before you go labeling everyone who questions the corporate media narrative, as just being a bunch of “crazies”, please remember, every “terrorist event” was a result of some kind of conspiracy. It just comes down to which story you choose to believe. But more important, what story does the evidence support?

    There is no difference between understanding NTE and understanding 9/11, it requires the same critical thinking that leads us far from our comfort zones.

  • Excellent discussion of Climate Change backing up Guy by Professor Peter Wadhams, Professor of Ocean Physics, and Head of the Polar Ocean Physics Group in the Department of Applied Mathematics and Theoretical Physics, at the University of Cambridge . Prof. Wadhams is an expert in Arctic sea-ice, and is a review editor for the physical sciences component of the upcoming 2014 IPCC (or Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change ) Fifth Assessment Report.

  • @ wildwoman

    I think it was more like 9 or 10 thousand, chasing one 19 year old, but if you think it was incompetence, I think you are mistaken. The ‘plan’ was never to do with catching, the plan was, as Tom explained above, training, conditioning, an American city for military style occupation, where there are humvees and explosions in the streets at night, houses broken into, people detained and taken away, and people just accept it as ‘normal’. This is for the future.

    If that doesn’t make sense, consider the decades of Irish terrorism in UK, no city was ever put on lockdown or saturated with officers in that manner.

    I followed the whole exhausting story on the massive thread below. It was most bizarre. I believe the BPD were played just as the public were played. They seemed to believe they were looking for some sort of wmd dirty bomb, or bio weapon or something. They found a box with wires, printed circuit boards, a rocket, an old man with a ‘dead man’s handle’ etc, on various occasions and were clearly terrified.

    I don’t see how that young man could possibly have been physically capable of carrying all those explosives, ammunition, etc, and running around the city, evading capture for hours. Seems more likely it was a set up trail to bait the police, as part of the patsy thing, but who knows. The whole story comes via police scanner feeds, which might well have been partially faked too, for all I know.

    @ Daniel

    Yes, we have been through all this before. It would be quite nice to avoid a repeat :-)

    As for the can of worms, this conspiracy stuff is child’s play compared with :

    @ Rob

    There seems to be no answer to the dilemma.

    I don’t know what to say to that. I think the only answer must be in the concrete reality of the moment. If there’s someone there with you, that needs something, then to withhold compassion or assistance must be wrong.

    Hypothetical cases in e.g. Haiti, where I have never been and will never be, where my compassion is of no practical relevance… it’s easy to say let them starve, let them die, they’ll only breed more, whatever, isn’t it. I don’t say it, I don’t think it. I have no answers to these intractable problems.

  • Operation Northwoods

    “Operation Northwoods was a series of false flag proposals that originated within the United States government in 1962, but were rejected by the Kennedy administration.[2] The proposals called for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or other operatives, to commit perceived acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere. These acts of terrorism were to be blamed on Cuba in order to create public support for a war against that nation, which had recently become communist under Fidel Castro.[3] One part of Operation Northwoods was to “develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington”.
    Operation Northwoods proposals included hijackings and bombings followed by the introduction of phony evidence that would implicate the Cuban government. It stated:
    The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere.
    Several other proposals were included within Operation Northwoods, including real or simulated actions against various U.S. military and civilian targets. The plan was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, signed by Chairman Lyman Lemnitzer and sent to the Secretary of Defense. Although part of the U.S. government’s Cuban Project anti-communist initiative, Operation Northwoods was never officially accepted; it was authorized by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but then rejected by President John F. Kennedy.
    According to currently released documentation, none of the operations became active under the auspices of the Operation Northwoods proposals.”

    They had their blueprint for 9/11 right there.

  • Another:

    Architects and Engineers for 911 truth:

    The buildings were designed to withstand impact by a 737. Jet fuel burns at 1800 degrees under optimal conditions. Structural steel melts at 2500 degrees.

    No plane hit building 7 (the third building) yet it still collapsed completely, straight down at free fall speed.

    A timely article on zerohedge regarding the whole damn mess called modern society:

  • @ b9K9

    I don’t disagree completely. However..

    The “gypsies” are actually the Rom.

    The nazis are but just one group who have persecuted them.

    The Rom call the holocaust “The Devouring”…

    And they are an interesting case study. Who better to represent survival. They have resisted NTextinction their entire existence. They live entirely outside civilization.. no nation, no home, no job, no religion, no farming… the despise and mistrust literacy and history.

    Again your post points to the “other”, whom in this case you even demean (these people) for being victims. This is the classic example of Rom exploitation. Belittle them at all cost.

    Educate yourself. Read ‘bury me standing’ by Isabel Fonesca.

    “It is better to die standing up than live on your knees” — emiliano zapata

  • Re 911 etc it hardly matters anymore. The planet is after us and without any intelligence at all momma earth is going to fry us. But wait, according to the official story, 19 men on a religious jihad caused a building (7) to collapse at free fall speed without even hitting it. Other miracles occurred that day like the amazing untouched pentalawn and the hole too small for a jet plane in the Pentagon. A woman was in the room next to the hole in the Pentagon, she got out with her infant son through that hole shortly after the plane went in, the plane burning up so no trace was found, but she amazingly walked out through that non-inferno… Another plane disappears into a hole in the ground. I could go on and on. Miracles were the order of the day.

    You know what all this means. It means there is god, some being that can reverse the laws of the universe. If you follow the official story you have to admit that there is a god and given how he favored a man in a cave and 19 nitwits (one who couldn’t pilot a small plane but managed a maneuver at the Pentagon that experts thought was impossible to do in a jet) well then the name of that god must be Allah.

    Or the official story is wrong….

  • We’re all just walking away from Empire, CathyK, in our ‘own’ culturally specific ways. Like you said, what difference does it make if we’re all gonna be fried anyway? Some prefer to go down fighting, exposing the lies. Some prefer to opt out and build/join communities that nurtures nature,life and death, enabling them to help each other, in the most humane way, when the frying gets earnest. Some, quite obviously, get a hard on at the constant gore goggling of all the different permutations the frying is going to deliver. Some just want to kick the can :-)

    Isn’t life strange.

  • @Kathy C,
    Other miracles occurred that day like the amazing untouched pentalawn and the hole too small for a jet plane in the Pentagon. A woman was in the room next to the hole in the Pentagon, she got out with her infant son through that hole shortly after the plane went in, the plane burning up so no trace was found, but she amazingly walked out through that non-inferno… Another plane disappears into a hole in the ground. I could go on and on. Miracles were the order of the day.

    By God, if the MSM tells me that you can in fact fit a square peg in a round hole, I am going to believe them! The hell with all you naysayers and folks that want to think for themselves.

  • Oops, sorry, ‘K’athy ‘C’!

  • @ Annie:

    Funny, we’re all gonna’ be fried anyway. Isn’t that how it’s always been? You’re born, you’re dead. That’s it. The sole purpose of life is to live until you die! NTE makes no difference. 911 makes no difference.

    Now, the devil is in the details, because all life seems pretty adamant about continuing its particular genes into the future, a legacy they must continue. It’s a drive I have somehow avoided. I am the last of my clan. Good. I at least did that much to save this doomed planet.

    The only chance we have now is some spaceship snatching some of us up to preserve our DNA for the future – maybe resettle us on another planet or something. Not holding my breath.

  • Beam me up, Scottie!

  • “Beam me up, Scottie!” :-)

  • The people that had the highest survival rates were the Jews who participated in the Warsaw ghetto uprising.

    Resistance probably won’t stop NTE, but no one, including Guy (as he himself said in the interview with Gary Null) can predict the future. That’s why I’m on the side of fucking with the system however and whenever possible.

    That said, petitions ain’t gonna cut it. Letters to politicians, same. If Keystone goes through, as is likely, that will be huge in terms of deciding what level of action to take on every level. If people living in trees, launching law suits, blockading and generally making a nuisance out of themselves doesn’t work (and it probably won’t) then what are the next steps?

    That’s the question that interests me.

    In the same interview, Derrick Jensen talked a bit about the Boston clusterfuck and pointed out, that in his remote area of the world, small children are now being institutionalized to accept police in their schools. Little kids see the cameras everywhere, see police in schools, and accept this as normal.

    Frankly, I don’t know enough about the various conspiracy theories to know anything for sure. As far as I know, there hasn’t been a smoking gun proof for any claims made. What I do know is that TPTB cannot be trusted (because they are evil, stupid, or incredibly smart and powerful).

  • Just so you know, any day now we’ll be at 440 ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere:

  • wildwoman: i agree. In fact i’d amend your last sentence to allow them to be the epitome of all of those traits. In the long run (now shorter!) their efforts will just be unsustainable wasted energy as the collapse and extinction demolish loyalties, organizations, and everything about human civilization.

    BtD: excellent “my bad”

    Kathie: yeah, we never get any answer and suspicious shit just keeps happening (at an ever increasing rate, it seems). The banking scandals just get worse – hell, they’re all insolvent; the politicians are the toadies and tools of the corporate sector, itself an arm of self-absorbed billionaires. The military is out of control, everythings gettin’ too expensive, the pressure keeps ramping up, food’s gonna become scarce for the masses, clean water will be more precious than anything soon, the air is full of radiation, smoke-stack particulate pollution, noxious gases and nanoparticles – and it rarely smells “sweet” any more (like spring and summer by my old flowering crabapple trees at the old house). The ocean’s dying, the ice is melting and no matter how you slice it we’re gonna see hell and high water, decades long droughts, unimaginably destructive storms and the collapse of our “way of life” (misnomer that that phrase is) and probably in our lifetime. i don’t have any answers, but i still have a lot of questions.

  • Those who prattle on about “9/11 conspiracy theories” forget (conveniently) that the official story is that of a conspiracy, by 19 “suicide hijackers,” several of whom turned up alive after 9/11, who managed to hijack four planes, fly two into two hi rises and bring down three hi rises, fly another into the Pentagon and hit the ground floor without the lawn being damaged, without any major debris either outside or inside the building, leaving a hole in the building’s wall much smaller than the alleged plane, and with the fourth plane crashing while leaving little if any debris at the Pa crash site, though wreckage was spread over miles and miles nearby.

    The point of pursuing 9/11 truth? To prevent “NEXT TIME.” Or at the very least to react to the next time much more skeptically and suspiciously than we reacted to 9/11.
    Anyone who is scornful of 9/11 researchers should look at that site and deal with the information.

  • 9/11 truth in 3:38 minutes

  • Jeff S. The point of pursuing 9/11 truth? To prevent “NEXT TIME.”

    You see, that’s what I find pointless about the whole discussion – the truth doesn’t matter anymore – I’m not sure it ever did. Knowing the truth isn’t going to prevent “next time” any more than setting up a massive bureaucracy known as Homeland Security stopped any of the other “terrorist” attacks since it was created.

    So, while it’s fun to speculate what really happened, even if we know the truth, it will never be acknowledged by “official” sources and even if it is, the perpetrators will never be brought to justice (other than the ultimate justice we all will suffer).

    Kathy C hit the nail on the head – as usual – it doesn’t matter anymore.

    There is so little time left to spend with those we love, human and nonhuman alike, it seems a shame to waste it speculating about something in the past that cannot be changed and about which nothing can be done.

  • Hey, not bad, but not enough screaming. Need some more worms out of this can? No problem.

    …So,BC Nurse, how do you explain THIS?


    Yeah! And this…



    and my favourite:


    Say, maybe we can just judge people by what we can find online and then vote, using Twitter, or maybe Reddit! Now THAT’S citizen government, don’t you think? Problem solved!

    Be sure to read the comments under this one – priceless. The point is that we cannot know the evidence for or against any of these claims using the internet. This is why we have laws, and courts, and judges, and police, and lawyers and the process of discovery, etc. Yes, this process is very slow and can become corrupt, and since secrecy has become so widespread, citizens now suspect every move as a conspiracy, whether it is or it isn’t. The point is – we will never know. Once trust wavers, the whole thing comes down. And that’s a good thing, but it sure is a mess when it happens.

    The most important thing I got from that video of John Ralston Saul in Australia was his assertion that we in the environmental movement made the wrong choice. He said he’d been in the environmental movement for 50 years, worked with Maurice Strong, and others and the mistake was that we avoided politics because it was dirty and scandalous. True enough. He said we went the route of influence and not power. We created NGO’s, we didn’t run for office. David Suzuki has recently said the very same thing: the environmental movement has failed. They are correct.

    The anti-environmentalists went the other way, infiltrated all of the main parties, hijacked the agenda, and got elected. They got the power and left the NGO’s to us. Very little has been accomplished since then and we are facing planetary collapse.

    When I realized this I had to hang my head in shame. I did this. I rejected politics because it was too corrupt, too dirty. Me and my ideals, what a joke.

    Is it too late? Can I run for office now? I don’t live in a town, but the municipality has an elected board. Could I get off my butt and campaign? Get some other like minded people to join me? Change something? What if I got in, could I go further up the line? Yeah, maybe become a member of the legislative assembly of British Columbia?

    Vote for me!
    I believe in shutting down all electrical power generating systems and refineries!
    I believe in executing nine-tenths of all Canadians and assigning the rest to ten tribes, equipped with stone tools and five elders for each tribe!
    Then I kill myself and wish you all good luck!

    Yes, vote for me.

  • BC Nurse Prof, you are my goddess.

    The other side of it is that politics are too corrupt and dirty and you wind up, regardless of what you campaigned upon or believed in, corrupted by the system that requires you to devote so much time to raising money and placating donors.

    Jesus, members of the environmental NGOs jump to more lucrative corporate jobs often enough.

    Those who are converting the living into the dead were doing it long before environmentalists showed up on the scene and against adversaries who had a little more (ahem) skin in the game and who won that one? I do think that is the one thing DGR is doing right, in allying with indigenous peoples who have a shitload at stake. The landowners in Texas and along the Keystone route are pissed and are joining in solidarity with others also fighting. Is it enough? Probably not, but it’s a better tactic than I’ve seen in awhile.

    We’re standing here on the Beach of Doom. Gotta do something with the time.

  • BC Nurse Prof says: They couldn’t run a lemonade stand, much less plan and execute some large scale event and keep it quiet.

    Many mum folks must have manned
    What all-powerful PTB planned;
    The leaders we’ve panned
    Couldn’t run a lemonade stand.

  • @ TRDH but mostly BCNurse

    I’m sure this dead horse has just a little more life in it, if I kick it one more time.

    Ok, it seems this conversation is diverging into two entirely different points of reference. Saying 9/11 no longer matters because of NTE is one thing…..which I believe a good many of us here wholeheartedly agree with, I know I sure do. But stating that 9/11 wasn’t an inside job, and we’re all crazy for thinking it was, is something else entirely. Let us not conflate these two story lines.

    You have to understand, twelve years ago, 9/11 was a complete socio-economic-political game changer–as I will assume–for many of us here. I have personally studied 9/11 to a great extent, in fact, there’s a small library written on the very subject. Again, the amount of evidence proving that 9/11 had to have been some kind of an inside job, is so voluminous, it’s absurd.

    So BC Nurse, continuing to demean us by comparing us to “birthers”, is only going to continue to fan the insipid flames. I don’t know if that is your intent, but please stop doubling down on a subject you clearly aren’t that familiar with. And I say this in all due respect. There are countless subjects I know nothing about, and I usually refrain from having an opinion about something I know nothing of, so I would personally appreciate it, if you showed us the same courtesy.

    I get the points you are both making about the utter ridiculousness of attempting to figure out what we know we never will, and where even if we did, it wouldn’t amount to a hill of beans either way. Believe me, I completely agree.

    But that is not what BC Nurse stated. This whole conversation came about by claiming that there is no such thing as covert operations orchestrated by clandestine organizations, which is just patently false.

    I am by no means looking to pick a fight about something none of us care all that much about anymore, but continuing to belittle us, isn’t going to get us very far in putting this nonsense behind us.

  • OK, Daniel. I’m done with that topic. The story about the student being killed because he was mis-identified online as a Boston bomber is just too horrifying to consider, and that it happened just the day after I posted my original rant is just too much for me. Let’s disagree about something else, OK?

  • I hope not everyone rejects politics because it’s “dirty and scandalous”. There are much better reasons for environmentalists to eschew the second-oldest profession, and most of them revolve around the allied concepts of money and power. Money buys power. Industrialists have a lot of money, so they can buy a lot of power. Environmentalists have little money, so they can buy little power.

    We can even see the stealthy hand of thermodynamics at work here. Corporations are in the business of harnessing energy flows to do work. The ones who do it the best win big. Lesser performers languish, as the Maximum Power Principle (itself a re-statement of the Second Law of Thermodynamics in non-equilibrium open systems) predicts they will.

    Money is the social abstraction of useful energy flows. That is, in some fractured fashion, it represents work. (It’s actually the counter-party to work, flowing in the opposite direction through the system as the energy that performs the work.)

    So: Energy => Work => Money => Political power.

    When it comes to the languishing lesser lights of the thermodynamic world, environmentalists are near the bottom of the totem pole, just above the hippies and the homeless. They harness relatively little energy compared to a corporation, and as a result they have relatively little money. As a consequence of that they can buy little political power.

    Rather than withdrawing because that world was too sordid for their sacred souls, I would say they recognized the thermodynamic realities of the situation, and put a brave face on it. They chose influence over power not from choice, but from necessity.

    There’s also the slight problem that political power corrupts even the purist of motivations. If you resist the corruption, you don’t get access to the levers.

    These two factors taken together spell political doom for “real” environmentalists, leaving the field open for the Amory Lovins and Bill McKibbens of the world. While they still don’t have political power, at least they sold out enough to gain some influence…

  • Agreed! No harm done.

  • @Daniel, for what it’s worth, from everything I’ve seen, it’s clear to me that the government’s story of the events doesn’t add up. I wasn’t disputing that, merely pointing out that we’ll never confirm the truth and even if we did it wouldn’t matter.

    @Paul Chefurka, the second oldest profession is simply the ugly version of the oldest profession. In fact, I suspect politicians could make almost as much money by threatening to take their clothes OFF! Either way, we still get screwed. :-)

  • Increasingly desperate:

    Climate science suggests that, to have a high probability of limiting global warming to an average temperature increase of 2 C, global greenhouse gas emissions must peak by 2020 and be reduced to close to zero by 2040. However, the current trend is heading towards at least 4 C by 2100 and little effective action is being taken. This paper commences the process of developing contingency plans for a scenario in which a sudden major global climate impact galvanises governments to implement emergency climate mitigation targets and programs. Climate activists assert that rapid mitigation is feasible, invoking the scale and scope of wartime mobilisation strategies. This paper draws upon historical accounts of social, technological and economic restructurings in several countries during World War 2 in order to investigate potential applications of wartime experience to radical, rigorous and rapid climate mitigation strategies. We focus on the energy sector, the biggest single contributor to global climate change, in developed and rapidly developing countries. We find that, while wartime experience
    suggests some potential strategies for rapid climate mitigation in the areas of finance and labour, it also has severe limitations, resulting from its lack of democratic processes.
    & 2013 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.

  • kathy, u r such a gem. your succinct summation of 9-11’s ‘official story’ (comment @ 3:29 a.m.) ought to be published far and wide. best, pithiest summation of it i expect to ever come across. most cynically/acidly humorous, and astute in relating the absurdity of dogmatic faith in ‘god’ to the absurdity of that particular ‘official’ deceit. absurdity is one of the ‘things’ that rule our joint ‘existence’/illusions of surreality. so it seems to me.

    ‘Isn’t life strange.'(?) it sure fucken is, annie!! nice comment, too, right after kathy’s. thanks for the contribution to the cause of keeping nbl’s ‘doomers’ informed, inspired, and entertained by sharing your p.o.v.!

  • ‘Just so you know, any day now we’ll be at 440 ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere’

    tom, i largely agree with your p.o.v.’s and appreciate how well they’re expressed. however, i think it must occasionally be pointed out when one makes a ridiculous statement like the one above. the accompanying graph from your link: shows no time scale. if it did, it would show that co2 is increasing presently at a rate of 2-3 ppm/yr. even allowing that the rate is slowly rising, and may be expected to undergo exponential growth in that rate as more and more reinforcing feedbacks kick in, 440 ppm appears to be over 10 years from now.

    perhaps u meant to type 400 ppm instead. in which case, u’re still wrong. knowledge/understanding of how/why co2 concentrations fluctuate yearly (when northern hemisphere has summer, with it’s predominance of global land area, co2 concentrations drop as all that land’s flora bloom and do their business of photosynthesis, removing co2 from the atmosphere, causing the downward zags in the graph. the present reading of over 398 (i didn’t know it was that high) is very close to this year’s peak. it will not be until approaching next year’s annual peak (during the northern winter/spring seasons), that we’ll see it exceed 400 ppm.

    paul chefurka, i dig your generally intelligent and exceptionally well informed and perceptive comments!

  • @pat “The sole purpose of life is to live until you die!”

    I guess I would rephrase that. Once self replicating units began to replicate they replicated until they died or they died before replicating. Those who replicated sent all (asexual) or some of their genes into the next generation. Etc Etc Etc. There is no purpose, that is just what happened.

    But the fact is that we get born, we live, and die. Everyone who is born lives only until they die, and die they do (ie. the kind of death that triggers a death certificate – others may argue that some part of us lives on, but I am talking about the physical death that causes your body to stink in about 3 days)

    Imagine all the potential unborns each of us carries. Of all the eggs I ever produced, all but 2 went down the drain. For men the potential unborns is much much greater. We don’t mourn those unborns. Some like you Pat made that number of discarded unborns just a bit larger than the number of discarded unborns most of us have. But bravo for you. What a difference to not have to worry about children when the world is falling apart.

    And fall apart is what it is clearly doing, financially, politically, environmentally, geologically (earthquakes caused by fracking and dog knows what they are doing with HAARP) and socially.

    Hagel apparently got his orders from Israel and is now saying Syria did use Chemical Weapons which is the red line for US intervention….Fukushima Diary reports continued land slides near Mt. Fuji indicating it is becoming more active. Zero Hedge says JPM’s eligible gold plunged from 402.4K ounces to just 141.6K ounces, a drop of 65% in 24 hours,and the lowest amount of eligible gold held at the vault on record, since its reopening in October 2010, and the weird weather continues. Where are the aliens when we need them?

    During March 2013, residents of Europe and the Southeast U.S. must have wondered what happened to global warming. Repeated bitter blasts of bitter cold air invaded from the Arctic, bringing one of the coldest and snowiest Marches on record for much of northern Europe. In the U.K., only one March since 1910 was colder (1962), and parts of Eastern Europe had their coldest March since 1952. A series of exceptional snowstorms struck many European locations, including the remarkable blizzard of March 11 – 12, which dumped up to 25 cm (10”) of snow on the Channel Islands of Guernsey and Jersey in the U.K., and in the northern French provinces of Manche and Calvados. The entire Southeast U.S. experienced a top-ten coldest March on record, with several states experiencing a colder month than in January 2013. Despite all these remarkable cold weather events, global temperatures during March 2013 were the 9th warmest since 1880, said NASA. How, then, did such cold extremes occur in a month that was in the top 8% of warmest Marches in Earth’s recorded history? The answer lies in the behavior of the jet stream. This band of strong high-altitude winds marks the boundary between cold, polar air and warm, subtropical air. The jet stream, on average, blows west to east. But there are always large ripples in the jet, called planetary waves (or Rossby waves.) In the Northern Hemisphere, cold air from the polar regions spills southward into the U-shaped troughs of these ripples, and warm air is drawn northwards into the upside-down U-shaped ridges. If these ripples attain unusually high amplitude, a large amount of cold polar air will spill southwards into the mid-latitudes, causing unusual cold extremes. This was the case in Europe and the Eastern U.S. in March 2013. These cold extremes were offset by unusually warm conditions where the jet stream bulged northwards–over the Atlantic, the Western U.S., and in China during March 2013. In fact, the amplitude of the ripples in the jet stream reached their most extreme value ever recorded in any March during 2013, as measured by an index called the Arctic Oscillation (AO). More at

  • Listen to the C-Realm podcast: 359: Stealing From the Future

    It ‘unpacks’ Bill McKibben’s recent Rolling Stone article where he states that the energy industry ‘has proven that the proponents of Peak Oil are wrong.

    It focuses on the growing divide between peak oil and peak climate partisans and the divide between ‘green’ embracing of Progress & Growth economy and Stop Industrial Civilization.

    McKibben is soft peddling the issue of NTE cause he believes people can’t ‘handle the Truth’.

    It is not working as a strategy.

    After listening to this podcast, I think it’s time to throw Bill under the bus.

  • So… I was in the Everglades National Park in South Florida last September (2012). My partner and I walked for a mile (very short hike) from Florida City …not really a city but more of a Park recreational site. Anyhow, we came upon a large open area with a small outdoor amphi-theatre area for nature talks. To my shock… there on the waterfront of the ocean was a palm tree and a park bench. What really shook me up was that the palm tree was three feet out in the “open sea” and the park bench had it’s foundation just a mere six inches or so from the lapping salt water. Now you can’t possibly tell me that when the bench was installed…whenever that was… that they put it just a mere six inches from the lapping waves!!!!! Anyhow, the Palm Tree did not look healthy as it’s base was completely submergred by the encroaching salt water. For twenty minutes, I kid you not, I stared and surveyed the surroundings. I was shocked and dumbfounded. Was this sea level rise and/or coastal erosion..or both?!?!?! Anyhow, to make a long story short.. I am returning to that very site on May 23rd (six months later). I will be interested to see if there is any change in wave action on the shore. And if there is.. why isn’t the Park Service and US Govt talking about this?!?!? I’m sure it has to to with TPTB. They don’t want us to know that the shit is hitting the fan as we speak! Be assured… I will be giving an update around the 26th of May.

  • …laughing as I “proofread” my post for the umpteenth time. Of course… I wasn’t “shocked” to see a palm tree and park bench. I was “shocked’ to see that they were standing virtually in the open ocean! I trust you got my original “drift.”

  • Speak Softly Says:
    April 25th, 2013 at 8:18 pm
    “Listen to the C-Realm podcast: 359: Stealing From the Future

    It ‘unpacks’ Bill McKibben’s recent Rolling Stone article where he states that the energy industry ‘has proven that the proponents of Peak Oil are wrong.

    It focuses on the growing divide between peak oil and peak climate partisans and the divide between ‘green’ embracing of Progress & Growth economy and Stop Industrial Civilization.

    McKibben is soft peddling the issue of NTE cause he believes people can’t ‘handle the Truth’.

    It is not working as a strategy.

    After listening to this podcast, I think it’s time to throw Bill under the bus.”

    Disgusting!! The energy industry is lying through its collective teeth, and McKibben is picking up the lie line because he thinks it serves HIS cause. Is the podcast the only way to access this article? Some of us prefer reading.:-)

  • Yeah tvt, it was supposed to be 400 ppm. DOH! As far as being wrong – i hope so. i want it to go down! But of course we both know we’re doing nothing as a species to stop our constant pollution so it’s only going to keep rising. Whether we yawn at this statistic because it doesn’t rise very rapidly (which may change in the near future) or scream at the top of our voices – nothing is going to change for the better with respect to climate change and humanity.

    Here’s something else you may remember. The BP Gulf oil disaster just keeps getting worse, but it’s not in the mainstream news. From covered up photos of how large and destructive the fires were, to how much oil actually gushed out to now this:

    Corexit, Oil Dispersant Used By BP, Is Destroying Gulf Marine Life, Scientists Say

    Three years ago, when BP’s Deepwater Horizon began leaking some 210 million gallons of Louisiana Crude into the Gulf of Mexico, the U.S. government allowed the company to apply chemical “dispersants” to the blossoming oil slick to prevent toxic gunk from reaching the fragile bays, beaches, and mangroves of the coast, where so much marine life originates. But a number of recent studies show that BP and the feds may have made a huge mistake, for which everything from microscopic organisms to bottlenose dolphins are now paying the highest price.

    After the spill, BP secured about a third of the world’s supply of dispersants, namely Corexit 9500 and 9527, according to The New York Times. Of the two, 9527 is more toxic. Corexit dispersants emulsify oil into tiny beads, causing them to sink toward the bottom. Wave action and wind turbulence degrade the oil further, and evaporation concentrates the toxins in the oil-Corexit mixture, including dangerous compounds called polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), known to cause cancer and developmental disorders.

    When BP began spraying the Gulf, critics cried foul. They said Corexit is not only toxic to marine life on its own, but when combined with crude oil, the mixture becomes several times more toxic than oil or dispersant alone.

    Not surprisingly, BP Chief Executive Bob Dudley defended use of the dispersant. “The toxicity of Corexit is about the same as dish soap, which is effectively what it is and how it works,” he told stockholders. “In hindsight no one believes that that was the wrong thing and it would have been much worse without the use of it. I do not believe anybody—anybody with almost common sense—would say waves of black oil washing into the marshes and beaches would have been a better thing, under any circumstances.”

    BP says that Corexit is harmless to marine life, while the Environmental Protection Agency has waffled, saying both that “long term effects [of dispersants] on aquatic life are unknown” and that data “do not indicate any significant effects on aquatic life. Moreover, decreased size of the oil droplets is a good indication that, so far, the dispersant is effective.”

    But many scientists, such as Dr. William Sawyer, a Louisiana toxicologist, argue that Corexit can be deadly to people and sea creatures alike. “Corexit components are also known as deodorized kerosene,” Sawyer said in a written statement for the Gulf Oil Disaster Recovery Group, a legal consortium representing environmental groups and individuals affected by the Deepwater Horizon spill. “With respect to marine toxicity and potential human health risks, studies of kerosene exposures strongly indicate potential health risks to volunteers, workers, sea turtles, dolphins, breathing reptiles and all species which need to surface for air exchanges, as well as birds and all other mammals.” When Corexit mixes with and breaks down crude, it makes the oil far more “bioavailable” to plants and animals, critics allege, because it is more easily absorbed in its emulsified state.

    Sawyer tested edible fish and shellfish from the Gulf for absorption of petroleum hydrocarbon (PHC), believed to have been facilitated by Corexit. Tissue samples taken prior to the accident had no measurable PHC. But after the oil spill, Sawyer found tissue concentrations up to 10,000 parts per million, or 1 percent of the total. The study, he said, “shows that the absorption [of the oil] was enhanced by the Corexit.”

    (and further down, there’s this)

    Hydrocarbon-laden, mutated seafood is not the only legacy left behind by Corexit, many scientists, physicians, environmentalists, fishermen, and Gulf Coast residents contend. Earlier this week, TakePart wrote about Steve Kolian, a researcher and founder of the nonprofit group EcoRigs, whose volunteer scientists and divers seek to preserve offshore oil and gas platforms after production stops, for use as artificial reefs and for alternative energy production.

    EcoRigs divers took water and marine life samples at several locations in the months following the blowout. Now, they and countless other Gulf residents are sick, with symptoms resembling something from a sci-fi horror film, including bleeding from the nose, ears, breasts, and even anus. Others complain of cognitive damage, including what one man calls getting “stuck stupid,” when he temporarily cannot move or speak, but can still hear.

    “If we are getting sick, then you know the marine life out in the Gulf is too,” Kolian said. The diver and researcher completed an affidavit on human and marine health used in GAP’s report.

    Kolian’s team has done studies of their own to alarming results. “We recently submitted a paper showing levels of hydrocarbons in seafood were up to 3,000 times higher than safety thresholds for human consumption,” he said. “Concentrations in biota [i.e. all marine life] samples were even greater.”

  • On second reflection, if I was head of the Ministry of Propaganda, I would want Bill McKibben singing exactly the tune he is singing now. Why?

    Because as Minister of Propaganda, one of my chief functions is Extend & Pretend, Lie & Deny, and F.U.D. (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt)

    Gotta keep the wheels on the trolley for as long as possible to give the Owners as much time as possible to steal the very last bloody pennies off the eyes of the Public.

    Bill McKibben’s message is functioning as ‘fly paper’ at this point.

    The few souls who have managed to partially escape the Matrix-Hologram that the Industrial Kulture’s Ministry of Propaganda has woven for them need Hopium that All Might Be Well, but they will get ‘stuck’ to his message and not evolve any further to something like Guy’s message.

    Bill is holding out The Blue Pill, sugar coated in an attractive forest Green.

    He knows better, but as Minister of Propaganda, I’ve sat him down and had a little Chat.

    I made him an offer he can’t refuse.

    He can keep his ‘Green Gravitas’ as long as he doesn’t Come Clean about the real state of the climate.

    Hell, Bill, here at The Ministry, we’ll even let you rebrand yourself as if that helps.

  • Oh boy, i feel so much safer now:

    The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) reserves the right to buy up to 750 million rounds of ammunition over the next five years and currently has “two years worth” of ammo on hand, or around 247 million rounds in its inventory, the department’s top procurement official said Thursday during congressional testimony.

    DHS has already purchased around 41 million rounds of ammunition this year alone, Nick Nayak, DHS’s chief procurement officer, said during an oversight hearing on Capitol Hill. Some $37 million in taxpayer dollars will be spent on the purchase of ammunition in the entirety of fiscal year 2013.

    Several lawmakers on the House Oversight Committee said they were surprised by the requisition and asked why DHS has been purchasing such large quantities of ammo for its 72,000 officers, most of who rarely discharge their weapons in the line of duty.

    DHS allocates anywhere from 1,300 to 1,600 rounds of ammunition per officer, or around 1,000 more rounds than is used by the average Army officer. Lawmakers called this excessive and unneeded, particularly as average American citizens face widespread ammunition shortages.

    DHS officers “used what seems to be an exorbitant amount of ammo,” said Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R., Utah), chairman of the House’s Subcommittee on National Security. “The federal government’s massive procurement of ammunition” is troubling.

    Rep. Thomas Massie (R., Ky.) said DHS has stockpiled nearly one bullet for every American citizen.

    Other Republicans expressed concern this ammunition is being wasted under poor management at DHS.

    “There’s a serious question of waste and lack of accountability,” Rep. Darrell Issa (R., Calif.) said. “The idea you have to have excess rounds in excess of what can be justified for training … flies in the face of common sense. Rounds are not bananas. They do not brown in a number of days or weeks.”

    Nayak and other DHS officials sparred with lawmakers at multiple points during the hearing as they maintained DHS is not hoarding ammo, as multiple conspiracy theory websites have suggested in recent weeks.

    “What does not make sense in the information you provided is that Customs and Border Control used [around 14 million] rounds for operational purposes when they rarely fire their guns,” Chaffetz said. “It seems like its just walking out the door. There doesn’t seem to be accountability because of the exorbitant usage here.”

    Hardly any ammo is used while on duty despite the massive amounts of ammunition used in the course of a year for training and other purposes.

    Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), which falls under DHS’s jurisdiction, fired “less than 100 rounds” during 15 shooting incidents last year, according to Humberto Medina, assistant director of ICE’s’ National Firearm and Tactical Training Unit.

    Some have alleged the federal government is hoarding ammunition following multiple reports DHS was purchasing more than 1 billion rounds of ammunition.

    DHS’s Nayak said the reports are completely untrue.

    “We have not purchased 1.5 billion rounds of ammo,” he told lawmakers. “I have no idea where the billion or over ever came from in terms of us having the capability to buy that.”

    DHS buys around 100 million rounds of ammo per year on average, Nayak said.

    It’s “simply not true” that DHS is stockpiling ammunition, Nayak said.

    Rep. Jim Jordan (R., Ohio) wondered why DHS did not seek to set the record straight following what Nayak claimed were erroneous reports.

    “You said you have no idea where the 100 billion rounds number came from,” Jordan said. “You’ve got to have some idea?”

    “You’ve got four news agencies reporting this number,” Jordan added. “And here under oath you say you have no clue. Are they just making it up?”

    After Nayak clarified DHS has the ability to buy 750 million rounds, rather than the 1.5 billion reported, Jordan continued.

    “Did you ever issue a clarification?” he asked Nayak. “Did you say it’s not 1.5 billion people, it’s 750 million. Did you ever do a press statement?”

    “DHS has a credibility problem,” Jordan continued. “You’ve got a credibility problem and you don’t even issue a press release to clarify. That’s why you’re here” answering questions.

    Both Nayak and ICE’s Medina defended the large stockpiles of ammunition.

    “We believe what we have in storage … is reasonable,” Medina told Chaffetz.

    “You’re telling me you have to have 3,400 rounds [per officer available] because it saves money?” Chaffetz responded.

    DHS has procured “approximately 120 million rounds of ammunition per year of all calibers and types and fired approximately the same number of rounds per year, almost exclusively for training purposes,” according to Nayak’s testimony.

    DHS contracts with ammunition providers to ensure it always has a large number of rounds in its inventory, according to Nayak’s testimony.

    “The two largest contracts in terms of their ceiling of rounds are the .40 caliber pistol and the .223 rifle contracts,” according to Nayak’s testimony. “These contracts have lifetime ceilings of 450 million and 165 million rounds, respectively over the five-year life of each contract—but this does not mean DHS will purchase this many rounds.”

  • Right now, outside Westminster Parliament, ‘The March of the Bee-keepers’are chanting, ‘All We Are Saying Is Give Bees A Chance’ :-)

    Give bees a chance

    I accept that ‘some’ of these protesters are more than a touch naive in expecting support from the neoliberal British Government. I also fear that the use of pesticides should be the least of our worries, at this moment in time, when it looks like an updated ‘biological’ Operation Northwoods is about to be unleashed in a city near you/me.

    However, imo, there’s something wonderful and good about these environmentalists; even if they languish at the bottom of the totem pole (just above the hippies and the homeless) in Paul Chefurka’s Thermodynamic World. I enjoy being around all three! Which, in the great scheme of things, is all that really counts.

    And that is my cue to exit ‘Nature Bats Last’. I’ve learned much more than I thought I would. So long and thanks for all the fish :-)

  • I love Matt Taibbi

    Conspiracy theorists of the world, believers in the hidden hands of the Rothschilds and the Masons and the Illuminati, we skeptics owe you an apology. You were right. The players may be a little different, but your basic premise is correct: The world is a rigged game. We found this out in recent months, when a series of related corruption stories spilled out of the financial sector, suggesting the world’s largest banks may be fixing the prices of, well, just about everything.


    All of these stories collectively pointed to the same thing: These banks, which already possess enormous power just by virtue of their financial holdings – in the United States, the top six banks, many of them the same names you see on the Libor and ISDAfix panels, own assets equivalent to 60 percent of the nation’s GDP – are beginning to realize the awesome possibilities for increased profit and political might that would come with colluding instead of competing. Moreover, it’s increasingly clear that both the criminal justice system and the civil courts may be impotent to stop them, even when they do get caught working together to game the system.

    If true, that would leave us living in an era of undisguised, real-world conspiracy, in which the prices of currencies, commodities like gold and silver, even interest rates and the value of money itself, can be and may already have been dictated from above. And those who are doing it can get away with it. Forget the Illuminati – this is the real thing, and it’s no secret. You can stare right at it, anytime you want.

  • The world is catching on:

    Entering a Resource-Shock World
    How Resource Scarcity and Climate Change Could Produce a Global Explosion
    By Michael T. Klare

    Brace yourself. You may not be able to tell yet, but according to global experts and the U.S. intelligence community, the earth is already shifting under you. Whether you know it or not, you’re on a new planet, a resource-shock world of a sort humanity has never before experienced.

    Two nightmare scenarios — a global scarcity of vital resources and the onset of extreme climate change — are already beginning to converge and in the coming decades are likely to produce a tidal wave of unrest, rebellion, competition, and conflict. Just what this tsunami of disaster will look like may, as yet, be hard to discern, but experts warn of “water wars” over contested river systems, global food riots sparked by soaring prices for life’s basics, mass migrations of climate refugees (with resulting anti-migrant violence), and the breakdown of social order or the collapse of states. At first, such mayhem is likely to arise largely in Africa, Central Asia, and other areas of the underdeveloped South, but in time all regions of the planet will be affected.

    To appreciate the power of this encroaching catastrophe, it’s necessary to examine each of the forces that are combining to produce this future cataclysm…

    A documentary movie based on his book Blood and Oil can be previewed and ordered (left out link to avoid moderation purgatory)

  • okay, so TPTB are stocking up ammo and building FEMA camps, what’s the big deal? Surveillance cameras are everywhere. Your cell phone is tracking you 24/7. The local police have tanks and armored personnel carriers not to mention robots and drones. And then of course the military has B-1 bombers and submarines with precision tomohawk missles.

    The only thing that will have any chance to save us from TPTB is a collapse so quick and chaotic that even TPTB are thrown off balance. A very rapid complete breakdown of society due to some extreme event or series of events. Absent that, we will see martial law, enslavement, and genocide on a scale beyond anything imaginable by the Nazis.

    The bad news is that a quick collapse into chaos means there will be no one to dismantle the toxic components of our infrastructure. So, it seems there is only despair.

    “The good die young – because they see it’s no use living if you’ve got to be good” – John Barrymore

    “It is a blessing to die for a cause, because you can so easily die for nothing.” – Andrew Young

    “I am convinced that it is not the fear of death, of our lives ending that haunts our sleep so much as the fear… that as far as the world is concerned, we might as well never have lived.” – Harold Kushner