From Subsistence to Resistance

by Norris Thomlinson; an earlier draft of this essay appeared here

I cried today. Not once, not twice. Maybe I cried eight times. I’m not even sure how to separate one cry from the next, when my heart carries sadness and anger in waves from peak to ebb, ebb to peak.

The exact number doesn’t matter.

I’m not used to crying. As a male, socialized into masculinity, I learned to suppress grief and most other strong emotions at an early age. I remember the last time I cried in front of my mother, at perhaps 12 or 13 years old. I don’t remember why I cried, but I do remember (and this is why I remember) my guilt and shame around breaking down in such a way, mixed into my sadness and into the comfort I received from her. I haven’t cried much since then.

I can give an easy proximate cause for today’s release: two heart-wrenching movies. But I need to explore some background for it to really make sense.

Portland

I lived nine years in Portland, where, after an initial period of frustrating and ineffective involvement in national and local politics, my then-partner and I embarked on a path of “disconnecting from civilization.” We aimed to develop the practical skills necessary to eventually move to land, create a “tribe” of close-knit community members, and establish self-sufficient subsistence via homesteading and hunting & gathering. I learned how to integrate some of my “waste” products of humanure, greywater, and kitchen scraps into my food system. I learned enough basic construction to build simple shelters. I planted food forests and a perennial vegetable garden to learn how to feed myself efficiently while creating wildlife habitat and sequestering carbon. I learned about those other cohabitants of our landbase, and even learned to listen to them in my attempts to understand the non-civilized world. I played with “rewilding” crafts skills. I talked with three successive groups of potential tribe-mates, and learned some of the difficulties of communication, of connection, of finding shared purpose, of resolving conflict.

At the same time, I engaged with the larger community, trying to share what I was learning and inspire others to disconnect, in part or whole, from the destructive systems of industrial civilization. I offered free tours and presentations and classes, blogged more or less frequently to document my experiments and findings, and provided edible and useful plants and seeds at low cost. I was something of a “food activist”, specializing in advocacy of perennial polycultures.

And at the same time, I knew it wasn’t enough: neither my own personal withdrawal, nor sharing my skills and encouraging others to move towards true sustainability. I couldn’t escape the reality and the challenge presented most eloquently by Derrick Jensen: the culture of civilization is insane and intent on destroying everything on this planet, and it will not voluntarily stop. Withdrawal and teaching are both legitimate responses to the threats of social, economic, and environmental instability, but are inadequate without forming a serious resistance movement to halt civilization.

Although I knew at some point I would need to take part in some form of resistance, I tucked that goal away. I rationalized that I needed to focus on getting myself and a tribe into a stable position on land of our own before I could put energy into addressing the big picture, long-term struggle.

Hawaii

After years of preparing to jump from city to rural living, I finally moved to Hawaii last August. But not only had our third hope at pulling together a like-minded community dissolved, but I had broken up with my partner of all those years. I did have a new girlfriend, an acquaintance and then friend of several years, but we were new to each other as romantic partners.

We moved here with the idea of buying land in 6-12 months, developing a homestead, and building a community, which I assumed would keep me busy for several years. I had vague visions of sharing my knowledge and skills as in Portland, but not until I’d learned enough about this new tropical environment to have something worth sharing. I imagined us creating low-tech, truly sustainable lifestyles (or rather, recreating – Hawaiians had all this figured out before western invasion 200 years ago.) We would demonstrate to people the satisfaction, enjoyability, and practicality of living car-free, growing your own food in perennial polycultures, and paring down to perhaps one computer, one cell phone, and a solar panel without toxic batteries.

But something funny happened about five months in. I felt increasingly dissatisfied with my priority of pursuing radical simplicity as quickly as possible. We’d achieved food self sufficiency (more or less) within a month of arriving, learned most of the basics we’d need to design a functional homestead, gone car-free, lived on a fairly small solar electricity budget, done 90% of our cooking over fire for a few weeks, done laundry by hand, taken cold showers, lived without refrigeration, and all in all gotten within spitting distance of sustainability. It turns out to take a lot of time and sometimes gets downright boring!

For a couple of years I’ve had the lesson of Scott Middlekauf’s “A Word of Caution for the Permaculture Enthusiast” in the back of my mind: that after years of developing his homestead he realized that his goal in life is not to develop a homestead; rather, he’d been developing his homestead to support him in whatever he really wants to do with his life. Arriving as close as we did to self sufficiency, as quickly and relatively easily as we did, forced me to confront my own weighting of values: “lifestyle purity” vs using “good enough” as a support base to carry out my actual life goals. I now felt confident enough that we can adopt the necessary lifestyle changes down the line when we have to adapt to changing world circumstances. In the meantime, the use of compromising technologies and conveniences in the present would allow me to move ahead with my higher priority goals.

I started reading the latest projections of climate change, which terrified me; everything is spinning out of control faster than almost anyone expected. I got up to date on the actions those in power are taking to deal with the crisis, which all boil down to finding new ways to profit. I reread Deep Green Resistance by Derrick Jensen, Lierre Keith, and Aric McBay, and was struck again by their well thought out and feasible plan – the only realistic response I’ve seen to stopping the destruction. They recognize that begging those in power to change their ways has never succeeded, and that far from being transformed by people “being the change they wish to see”, the dominant culture has brutally crushed every sustainable culture it’s encountered – we’re talking about cultures extant for thousands of years and waaay groovier than even the most spiritual hippie permaculture commune you can imagine.

They lay out a strategy of simultaneously dismantling industrial civilization (primarily through underground activists sabotaging and disrupting critical industrial infrastructure), while networking aboveground activists to rebuild local alternative systems to take over as the global systems collapse (which will occur, sooner or later, whether or not an underground accelerates that collapse.)  I began checking the Deep Green Resistance News Service page almost daily, reading all the linked stories and absorbing the ongoing expansion of global domination and the courageous pockets of resistance fighting back here and there.

Finally, in April, I joined Deep Green Resistance to actively engage in this struggle as a member of the aboveground, and am feeling simultaneously excited, proud, in love, scared, and uncertain. Excited and proud because I’m directing my energy to something so important. In love because even though I barely know them, I feel so much love for my fellow members in DGR, and for its allies, putting their time and energy and passion and money into this shared struggle for Beautiful Justice and thousands of new, sustainable cultures emerging from thousands of landbases (or just being left alone where they already exist). Scared because of the consequences if we fail. (Time Is Short.) And uncertain because I’m new to resistance and don’t know how best to apply myself.

In part to address that uncertainty, I’ve been educating myself – about radical feminism, about racism, about indigenous struggle, about historical and contemporary resistance. Which brings me back to my crying.

So much of what I’m reading and hearing and watching is heartbreaking. I remember crying many years ago as I read Dee Brown’s classic Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee, one of the only such memories until I go all the way back to that childhood moment with my mother. I cried several times in more recent years reading Derrick Jensen’s books. I cried three months ago when I read about the Russian prisoner of war “Sasha” who helped lead a successful mass escape from the German death camp at Sobibor, only to be thrown later into a gulag by Stalin. I cried two months ago watching Escape From Sobibor, the dramatization of that breakout. I cried three weeks ago listening to a Feminist Current podcast of Jackie Lynn’s account of abusive grooming for eventual prostitution. I cried two weeks ago reading Patrizia Romito’s A Deafening Silence and its analytic yet human exposure of the denial around male violence against women. I cried yesterday hearing about the extinctions of Hawaii birds that have occurred within my short lifetime, and the likely forced death march of several more before my own life is through.

Today

And of course, I cried today. I watched two movies: Kanehsatake: 270 Years of Resistance, and If a Tree Falls: A Story of the Earth Liberation Front. I didn’t expect either one to affect me as it did. Perhaps I primed myself to be ripped apart by Kanehsatake by reading Vine Deloria Jr’s Custer Died for Your Sins and watching American Holocaust over the past week. More likely it would have happened anyway. The film, comprised almost entirely of on-the-ground footage in the thick of the action, shows the 1990 resistance of the Mohawk people of the Kanehsatake village to a planned seizure of their traditional land, disturbance of their cemetary, and the destruction of ancient pines to build new luxury housing and expand a golf course.

With amazing clarity and starkness, the film depicts the brute application of force against an already oppressed people; outright disregard for human rights; the repression of journalistic freedom; and soldiers and commanders and mayors “only following orders” and displacing responsibility for their roles in the violent violations. But it also depicts the strong spirit of the Mohawks and their allies, a resistance culture formed from longtime bonds of family and tribe, an integration of women and warriors and chiefs and children and spiritual leaders, unbridled expressions of anger and grief and love, a sense of humor, and an ironclad will to stand up to and fight back against injustice that I’ve never experienced in my white middle class life.

If a Tree Falls felt less intense. It’s a more distanced documentary of interviews and vignettes centered around former Earth Liberation Front member Daniel McGowan as he awaits trial in 2007 for his role in multiple arsons of the property of environmentally destructive corporations (the original ecoterrorists.) I’d heard bits and pieces about his case, and those of the other defendants in the Operation Backfire roundup, but this filled in a lot of important detail, and made it all very human and real. The film drew me in and had me anxiously awaiting, with Daniel, the results of his trial. I’d already idealogically supported him and other ELFers, but I gained specific respect for this man who not only put his life on the front line, desperately trying to stop the ongoing horrors of industrial civilization after the approved political routes had failed, but stuck to his commitment not to turn state evidence against his comrades (even as most of them turned on each other and on him.) I broke down a couple more times watching his vilification and harsh sentencing.

I don’t know what’s happening to me, exactly. I’ve never reacted much to traditional tear-jerker emotion-manipulating films (usually about when I notice that I’m feeling something, I also notice the new musical score deliberately orchestrated to make me feel that something.) But the films I saw today are real. I guess I’ve opened myself up more and more to reality, to looking directly at the ongoing atrocities committed by the dominant culture. It’s not as bad as one might expect; the grief hasn’t led to despair, the anger hasn’t led to some all-consuming directionless and distracting rage. To effectively resist, I need to operate from a realistic assessment of the situation – how others have resisted and succeeded or failed and why, how those in power have struck back against resistance and how they have succeeded or failed and why. I can handle the grief and anger; they’re releasing and healing and authentic.

To misquote Steve Forbert: it feels good to feel again. I plan to continue.

_________________

Norris Thomlinson lived a standard oblivious American life until deciding to read and learn more about the “real world.” He quickly discovered enough disturbing information about environmental destruction, politics, the economy, peak oil, and the (anti) nature of civilization to jolt him onto a series of different life paths. Norris has spent the last 9 years immersing himself in permaculture, rewilding, and now resistance. You can read more about his journey and about his permaculture experiments at Farmer Scrub’s blog.

__________________

McPherson was interviewed by Diane G 12 July 2013. The result is embedded below.

Listen to internet radio with Diane G on BlogTalkRadio

Comments 209

  • Life’s goals?

    The whole idea of “life’s goals” is just another part of civilization’s bullshit.

    I have no life goal except to survive another day and do my best (which isn’t much) not to participate in industrial civilization.

    One of my “life goals” prior to becoming aware was to have enough money to retire comfortably and be able to travel extensively. What a joke.

    @ AnonymousPlatypus
    Your limerick about self-immolation with old tires and gas is spot on, it wouldn’t make any diffference, just like DGR will not make any difference.

  • It is my gut impression that the indigenous Elders will be the best suited to help us within the next phase of human situation – dire as it is.

    They know their land.

  • @Norris Thomlinson, Thank you for the excellent essay.

    Arriving as close as we did to self sufficiency, as quickly and relatively easily as we did, forced me to confront my own weighting of values: “lifestyle purity” vs using “good enough” as a support base to carry out my actual life goals.
    This calls to mind Voltaire’s “The best (perfect) is the enemy of the good.” Our society sets the trap that insists things must be done in a certain order, to a certain level of accomplishment, before moving on to the next thing, i.e. college, job, marriage, family, home-ownership, blah, blah, blah…but it’s a lie. It’s very liberating to recognize the trap, that the goal isn’t to aspire to a lifestyle, even if that lifestyle is permaculture. Thank you for illustrating that it is possible to make reasonable compromises in service of higher priorities (like all of life on earth!).

    I guess I’ve opened myself up more and more to reality, to looking directly at the ongoing atrocities committed by the dominant culture.
    Maybe without realizing it, you have demonstrated one of the more insidious atrocities of the dominant culture, and that is the hijacking and destruction of the psyche and emotional literacy of boys, insisting on toughness, masculinity, more lies and impossible standards. Many years ago, I read a book called “Raising Cain: Protecting the Emotional Life of Boys” by Dan Kindlon and Michael Thompson, two child psychologists. I found it very valuable in understanding the walls that our society helps build up in the hearts of young boys. I would highly recommend it to anyone, even though on the surface it is geared towards teachers and parents.
    Thank you so much for your honesty and sharing your tears. Hey, if you want to see a grown woman cry over some tomato plants, among other things, stop on by! You are not alone in feeling overwhelmed right about now…

  • Mr. Thomlinson – welcome. Read your essay twice – – have Kanehsatake tabbed up and waiting. As soon as I walk the dog, I’ll cry with you awhile. 🙂

    What is there to say that Derrick and Guy and an increasing chorus are saying. They told us 300 years ago we were fucking nuts but no, we didn’t want to listen. Well look at us now.

    Hey – cosmos took us to the heavens – trillions of stars – no wait – trillions of galaxies – then they say there’s all this ‘dark’ stuff — now they go the other way and it’s quarks and Higgins Bosom. Then they tell us stuff ain’t really stuff, its a force and our head explodes. And just about the time we get some major stuff back in perspective, along comes NTE.

    Crying 6 times a day – I hear ya – time will heal – it will sink in. We’ll only need to cry twice a day 🙂

    Great essay.

  • ” the dominant culture has brutally crushed every sustainable culture it’s encountered – we’re talking about cultures extant for thousands of years and waaay groovier than even the most spiritual hippie permaculture commune you can imagine. ”

    Thanks for this. Derrick Jensen is one of the few people who understands how really groovy it was. I understand because I lived with them. I am 60 years old, born in 53. My great-great-grandmother was born around 1863-65? We don’t know. She lived until 1961. She was a full-blood Cherokee born in Indian Territory before it was even Oklahoma Territory, much less Oklahoma state. She was one of the old ones, not speaking English until she was an older child. I spent a great deal of time with her when I was a young child. Also, my great-grandmother, who also was a traditional woman, born in 1889.

    Western culture has such a deep, blind conviction regarding the superiority of its own perceptions that people cannot see how incredibly beautiful the North American cultures were, in particular with their understanding of the environment. They dismiss it, hauling out an obsolete label. We love our labels.

    My great-grandmother was one of the most intelligent people I’ve ever met. She was scary brilliant, and was known for it. In the 1930s, even as an Indian woman, she was extremely well respected for her intelligence everywhere she was known. But she had very, very different values, one of which was that she was NOT the least bit interested in measuring and labeling things. She did not even see the world that way. She did not see her own self that way.

    They had quite rich lives, of exactly the things that Guy states are important – they had a healthy, abundant, rich environment full of clean water, air and food. They had deeply committed communities. And they had unlimited opportunities to grow in relationship to the world around them.

    They were not “hunters and gatherers.” They were statesmen, and judges, and priests, and doctors, and biologists, and farmers, and astronomers, and poets and artists, and lovers, and athletes, and gamblers, and sports enthusiasts.

    We are blind to the point of killing the whole world because of how we use our intellectual capacity for abstraction, and we believe no one else ever did it better.

    We’re crazy and stupid.

  • TEPCO tells a bit of truth (likely not the whole truth & nothing but)

    My favorite line: “We are very sorry for causing concerns. We have made efforts not to cause any leak to the outside, but we might have failed to do so,”

    oopsie!

    Link is from the AP: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/japan-plant-admits-radioactive-water-leaked-sea

  • Thank you so much for this post. It’s so refreshing when I hear people on this list, besides Guy himself, express the general sentiment that resistance is useful.

    As a pagan, I like to think of it like the Ragnarok. The defenders in this last battle know they will lose, they even know the manner of their deaths. Odin is swallowed by the Fenris Wolf, Thor dies from the venom of the Midgard Serpent after killing it and taking 9 steps back, all know their fate, yet they fight regardless. It’s the battle that cannot be won but must be fought. I’m no hero, it’s just the reality of our situation, out fate.

    Paganism and stories like the Ragnarok are not really what you would call a belief system for me, rather the stories are an example and the traditions a living system. Something that helps me to keep going in the face of an admittedly hopeless situation. Life is not a destination, it’s a journey. Resistance is a way of life. To each their own.

    Like you and many others I went through a similar radicalization process. In my case, it was not the food system but the transportation system I dumped, deciding 22 years ago that the car culture was the big source of the problem I stopped driving. I am 62 years old now, riding a bike, and glad of it. 10 years ago I took my activism full time working in both human and environmental rights, which I believe are inseparable. (I often get guff from both sides for this).

    I have been through Portland a few times having worked around the PNW a bit, though most of my time was spent in Olympia or on the road. I lived in New Mexico for about three years, kind of resting up and trying to convince people to ride bikes and use solar cookers, which are effective year round in southern New Mexico. I then came to DC for the Tar Sands thing in front of the white house, which I knew was useless but which I saw as a good radicalization moment for people, unlike myself, who had never been arrested before.

    I picked up the DGR book at an event put on by DGR during the tar sands protest. I guess DGR was there for the same reason I was. I bought a bike at a thrift store and rode it to Pittsburgh on the C&O and GAP trails while reading the DGR book. When I came back to DC I joined with Occupy and set up my little pup tent (yeah, the old kind with a short pole on each end) at McPherson square.

    Unfortunately, the radicalization process often ends up making underground work impossible so, like you, my resistance is above ground, which is why I can make posts like this, I’m not hiding anything. Last time I was arrested the finger print machine came up with my record in about 5 minutes, and I have had the experience of my communications being intercepted and fed back to me by the corporate state in a matter of days. So why hide?

    I found the DGR organization to not be as good a fit for me as Earth First! which is also above ground,

    So tomorrow I will jump on my bicycle with the EF! banner and meet the march for our grand children (of which I have three) as they are coming down the C&O trail and walk back with the. Yeah, I know, it’s put on by 350.org who want to save civilization and who’s very name is disingenuous, but I am going there not for the sake of an organization, but for the people might meet. Tonight I am going to an IWW meeting. I’m a primitivist syndicalist whether anyone likes it or not.

    BTW, screw all that macho crap. Have a good cry. I do it all the time.

  • “They were not “hunters and gatherers.” They were statesmen, and judges, and priests, and doctors, and biologists, and farmers, and astronomers, and poets and artists, and lovers, and athletes, and gamblers, and sports enthusiasts.”

    I forgot, they were also traders and merchants and jewelers who made copper and silver and stone jewelry.

    I quote myself. My comment here is that their cultures were richer than ours. We see them, and we see a bunch of half-naked people carrying spears and wearing dead rabbits.

    They had towns of thousands of people with complex lives and interactions. Among the Creeks they had “white” towns and “red” towns. If you needed justice or reconciliation or negotiation, you went to the elders at a white town. They were trained and skilled in negotiations and justice that way. If you wanted revenge or war, you went to the red towns, and the elders there were wise in the way of war and justice through force.

    They were fantastic! And yes. They did it all while being imperfect individuals, just like us.

  • I misquoted the other day. My quotation regarding the measure of the land was from Chief Joseph. Sorry. I have a lot in my memory.

  • I wonder how we come to take sides.

    I know that DGR wants to bring down industrial civilization and I know that they KNOW that means a lot of people need to die.

    I’m pretty sure TPTB have figured out that industrial civilization needs to be brought down to a realistically sustainable level and I’m pretty sure they KNOW that means a lot of people need to die.

    Do nothing, and runaway climate change makes it inevitable that a lot of people are going to die.

    Do something, and runaway climate change makes it inevitable that a lot of people are going to die.

    So, how do we come to take sides?
    Hippies in their Subarus with bumper stickers that say “Save Mother Earth” while gulping their starbucks coffee are not the folks I would bet on.

    In the big scheme of things, I think B9K9 is right.

    However, I’m not going to take sides because I’m taking the position that NTE is inevitable, nothing can stop it, and collapse is already happening.

    Nobody – no organization – no military force – no govt. can implement the solution: 90% of the population needs to die, but wait!, first we need them to help us dismantle the toxic infrastructure of industrial civilization. And, even if they COULD do it, the feedback loops have already been triggered and runaway climate change will scorch the planet anyway.

    Is there some redemption in Resistance? I don’t think so. I don’t believe there is any redemption for the suffering my privileged white American male ass has caused. Besides, I don’t need redemption, although I AM guilty, I need a haircut and a shave.

  • Here is an article about how the plutocrats are planning on destroying the sustainable villages and lifestyles of 250 million non consuming rural peasants in order to increase GDP and their profits. For all its shortcomings Chinese communism apparently appreciated the importance of each person owning and working their own little piece of land and living a self sufficient life.

    http://www.archdaily.com/390959/china-plans-to-move-250-million-into-cities-by-2025/

  • @Rob
    Who the hell is looking for redemption? Resistance needs no reason but resistance for it’s own sake.

    As for causing people to die by taking down industrial civilization, it’s amazing how crystal clear the priorities become in a real disaster. When I got to New Orleans, less than two weeks after Katrina, there was a desperate request written in the middle of the street for the helicopters above. It said: GOV WATER PLEASE. Note that it did not say gov power please, or gov gas please or gov fuel please, although there had already been no power for almost two weeks and we had to load on extra 5 gallon containers of fuel, ala Mad Max, just to get there from DC.

    The only thing which is going to give anyone a chance of survival is a intact supply of water and a land base on which to survive. Believe me, you find out real quick what’s important. As Guy likes to say, water, food, a way to maintain body temp, and community. BTW, body temp does not require central heating, just a good bag, blankets and shelter from the wind. I have spent more than a few winters outside.

    Target number one needs to be the extreme extraction that is destroying that land base even as it accelerates global warming. Chances of success don’t matter. We just need to do it. Resistance brings the grid down gradually. A crash brings it down suddenly, and about 400 melting reactors with it.

    Capitalism is incapable of a gradual reduction and it does not care if people die or reactors melt. That’s why I feel working with EF! and the IWW is complimentary. As is my opinion that Human rights, animal rights, and environmental protection are all linked.

  • @Rob

    Do something, lots of people die.
    Do nothing, lots of people die.

    So, given that lots of people are going to die no matter what, it looks to me as though the choice of what to do remains a personal one. No matter what choice we make, in in the end makes no difference whatsoever except to the person making the choice and a handful of people close to them.

    I was a big fan of Jensen for a while back in my “Get Whitey!” days. Then I shifted and I began to see that all resistance simply binds the resistor more tightly to the thing they’re resisting. For me there is no redemption, salvation or expiation to be had there. So instead I wait, and watch. And as I wait and watch I try to make a difference to myself and the handful of people close to me in other ways.

    Good luck with the fight.

  • Sorry for being unclear – the first two lines above were acknowledging Rob but the rest of it is directed toward the OP.

  • Getting older, not wiser, will cause the tears to flow, often unbidden by any other factor beyond age. I can get teary eyed just thinking about various passages of music I happen to like a great deal. It isn’t out of sadness, the tears well up just because I find this or that so damn beautiful.

    Tears aplenty for the fate of the planet. Crying in and out of rage is a good response, a valid one too. Impotent rage is pretty much all I left. I’m too cowardly to actually try to “resist” industrial civilization beyond posting here and elsewhere and my body doesn’t mend nearly as well as it did when I was younger.

    Men in my age group between 50 and 65 are committing suicide more often as they are forced out of work and left to question everything they have ever known. In a few more years, suicide will be the leading cause of death in every age group, all over the globe. This will be met with alarm at first, and shortly afterwards, governments will be encouraging suicide for various “unproductive and extra” people and shortly after that, suicides will become mandatory for the “unproductive.”

    I’ll be out of tears by then. Still unlikely to do anything, but maybe on the way to the suicide vault I’ll be able to recall the huge impact all my tears have had on stopping this sorry fate.

  • How great and refreshing, reading someone here (besides Guy) who sees resistance as worthwhile, and who values being in touch with inner emotions. A nice change from the usual diatribes against other forum participants and/or human beings as a total single undifferentiated category and even the poster him/herself.

  • .
    @ Rob, @ Jesse

    2nd and last post of the day, per the 2 post rule:

    I don’t buy into the Resistance for Resistance sake. I don’t see a real “plan” in the DGR or the EF! movements.

    If I drank water from a mountain stream, I’d probably die.

    You can come “extract” me anytime you want – I assume the result will be the same whether it is you or FEMA.

    If some organization has a real plan to implement the Solution, I’m ready to join, right now. Otherwise, pour me another cocktail and, as the train flies down the track, open a window, I want to play “airplane” with my hand.

  • Norris, I have also seen The Escape from Sorbidor and others like that.

    To round out your viewing and put some caution into the dream of glorious resistance let me suggest two more.

    The Grey Zone tells the true story of some of the Sonderkommandos at Auschwitz-Birkenau who make a plan to blow up the ovens in order to slow the rate at which the Germans can kill the Jewish prisoners. They are prisoners themselves who have gained a reprieve by helping the Germans kill the prisoners – they know it is for perhaps at most 4 mos. They use their position to execute their plan (and perhaps ease their consciences). But one day as they pull bodies out of the gas chamber they find a young girl who has survived. Some want to save her life at risk to their plan that they hope will save more lives, and some want to kill her to salvage their plan. What to do? The whole movie is full of the moral questions that one thinks they will never have to make in life. For more https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grey_Zone

    The second is Army of Shadows as described on the wiki entry by that name Army of Shadows (French: L’armée des ombres) is a 1969 French film directed by Jean-Pierre Melville. It is a film adaptation of Joseph Kessel’s 1943 book of the same name, which blends Kessel’s own experiences as a member of the French Resistance with fictionalized versions of other Resistance members. Army of Shadows follows a small group of Resistance fighters as they move between safe houses, work with the Allied militaries, kill informers, and attempt to evade the capture and execution that they know is their most likely fate.[1] While portraying its characters as heroic, the film presents a bleak, unromantic view of the Resistance So to achieve the noble end of resisting Hitler they find themselves resorting to some of the same tactics as he who they resist.

    I just point these out so that you have a fuller historical idea of resistance and its often unsavory side which is all to easy to slip into when you have a cause you believe is morally right. Do not let the rightness you feel allow you to act like those you resist.

    Of course given Snowden’s revealations, which we all suspected to be true, announcing that you are going to resist on line pretty much insures you will never have the opportunity to do much resistance at all.

    I will feel good about myself if I just don’t grab someone else’s maggoty potato in the FEMA camp food line. I will feel good about myself if I give my last can of tuna with a mother and child.

    Meanwhile, anyone who is still fertile who is not a gay male can resist any possible procreation by rape or desperate end of the world sex by getting tubes tied now. Save the unborn from entering hell on earth.

  • From Norris’s essay:

    “…To effectively resist, I need to operate from a realistic assessment of the situation – how others have resisted and succeeded or failed and why, how those in power have struck back against resistance and how they have succeeded or failed and why…….And [I’m] uncertain because I’m new to resistance and don’t know how best to apply myself”.

    No one ever chooses to crawl down the rabbit hole, it’s only much later that we discover where we are, and it’s only later still, that we discover we can never crawl out. And if ever there were a bottom to the abyss, and believe me, I thought I had reached it many times……………….well, nothing really comes after near term extinction, does it?

    Before there was Deep Green Resistance, there was The Earth Liberation Front in the 90’s. Before there was ELF, there was Earth First! in the 80’s. Before Earth First! there was Greenpeace in the 70’s. Before them there was the Weather Underground and before them Syndicalism, and before….well, eventually we end up knocking around in Sabots quoting Diogenes.

    For me, coming from a small lumber town in the Pacific Northwest, I came of age during the Edward Abbey, Earth First! era. And unlike many of my comrades, I was fortunate enough to have never been caught, unless that was the objective, which often times it was pending on the nature of the protest. And that’s all I’m going to say about that. Hello Big Brother.

    I have been a radical environmentalist my entire adult life, where in my youth everyone I knew was as well, especially in a liberal college town that just so happens to be the anarchist capital of the U.S. Of course it’s easy to be outraged when you’re in your twenties and the idealism of working to create a better world, has yet to repeatedly crash upon the rocks as it has for every greenhorn that has come before. Hence, the reason for why every “movement” is overwhelmingly youth driven, it’s a generational thing that eventually ends up much like a “Deadhead sticker on a Cadillac”. And it is why Howard Zinn became rather disingenuous in his later years, when he would repeatedly claim he was happy to see so many young faces in the crowd, when in fact, he had never seen anything else. Which also indirectly speaks as to why there are so many grey hairs here at NBL.

    Of course there are always your dye-in-the-wool radicals who never move on, and I would most likely be considered someone who never did. But this is not the 60’s or 70’s. It’s not even the horrendous 80’s. It’s not even the slightly resurgent 90’s. This is 2013 where literally every catastrophe we’ve been warned about over the last fifty years of ecological awareness is now coming to fruition. We are no longer in the causation phase, but are now in the catastrophic consequential stage of attrition.

    We’re no longer living in the years that allowed our foolishness to believe we still had some remote chance of steering industrial civilization around the notorious iceberg. Wherein, we’re now so far down the road, or up the creek that we’re not just beyond post collision, we’re now even beyond the “collapse preparedness movement” of the last decade.

    But sense it seems almost impossible for us to not continue to play intellectual leap frog in jumping back and forth between past paradigms and our new unbearable future, I suppose it’s just as impossible to expect generations of vested interests to go quietly into that equally notorious good night.

    The theory of DGR can barely wrap it’s proposition around the very collapse it endorses, now we’re somehow suppose to suspend all critical thinking and coddle the naive notion that DGR is somehow relevant in the face of NTE? And that continuing to put our faith in “resistance” is anything other than just a personal choice in the absence of any viable imperative?

    If there was even the slightest chance that DGR could have any impact on our current course, then the probable reality of NTE wouldn’t even exist. But we are here at NBL, right now, because “we” comprehend that NTE is probable, simply because nothing else is.

    There are many reasons why we are discussing NTE, but in IMO, it is mainly due to the simple passage of time. For many of us, enough time has now passed under the bridge that “we” fully understand that there is nothing any of us–no matter how many there may be–can do to change a single damn thing, other than continue to fill our heads with nostrums that allow us to believe we have agency where none has probably ever existed.

    While my Earth First! days are long past, my radicalism is alive and thriving, which is why I blog at NBL. But that radicalism is no longer married to the notion of resistance, because decades of opposition has left me with one overarching truth that can’t possibly ever be surmounted: Virtually no one cares about anything beyond their immediate self interests, period! I now call it “the tyranny of our immediate needs”.

    However, if one is operating under a moral imperative, then such remorseless truth is inconsequential. And this brings us around to what I believe is Guy’s position. In the face of NTE, “resistance” must be framed as a moral imperative, otherwise, it rationally holds no water. But as long as it is framed as such, it can’t be argued against, because no one is in any position to tell another how they should live. So, resistance is as “fertile” as one believes it to be. And it makes absolutely no sense in attempting to dissuade someone of their moral imperative in the light of NTE.

    It is obvious to many here that DGR will amount to nothing. And not only that, it will amount to even less than all the “movements” that have come before. And again, if this were not true, then NTE would not exist. NTE exists because the vertical ascension of exponential growth curves carries its own unprecedented truth, which can’t honestly be denied. But, none this has any bearing on how any of us choose to live out what time we have left.

    So, for those who choose to resist, do so knowing that this is solely your choice, and abandon all hope that it will ever amount to anything. But as long as one is being driven by a moral imperative, it doesn’t need to amount to anything other than what it is in itself.

  • If the Resistance you join is “above ground,” then you will simply be tagged by TPTB for removal once SHTF as you are currently no threat.

    If the Resistance you join is “under ground,” then you will be immediately targeted for “neutralization.”

    IMO, the only question that remains is “How Soon and How Severe?”

    If the collapse happens slowly and measured, then we will all be herded by TPTB into our miserable new roles as slaves.

    If the collapse happens quickly and severly, then it will be widespread chaos and every man for himself – cannibals and marauding hoards will rule the land.

    Personally, I’m voting for quick and severe, just so the infrastructure that supports TPTB gets the maximum shock.

  • @Rob says “In the big scheme of things, I think B9K9 is right.”

    Of course I’m right – not that I’m some sort of genius, but primarily because I don’t cry. Emotions (crying, whining, complaining, etc ad nauseum) are the enemy of analysis. Analysis isn’t inherently cold blooded and/or evil – it’s simply the ability to be truthful about the truth.

    Here as example of a simple truth: your cupboard is bare, you don’t have any money, you possess no marketable skills in which to trade, and there isn’t sufficient waste in which to salvage. Result: you’re gonna be hungry. See how easy that was to get from point A to point B with some simple observations?

    Now, scale it up to 7 billion living on a planet that could support, at most, say 1 billion without fossil fuels (and even that would be a stretch). What happens when it’s too expensive to pump/filter/clean potable water? To produce the necessary petro-fertilizers in which to to maintain current yields (paging DairyManDave)? Need I go on?

    So, as others have noted, a huge die-off is in everyone’s future. The question then becomes: are the PTB stupid, clueless or otherwise so feckless as to not comprehend what is occurring? Or, are they the PTB for the very reason that (a) not only do they understand perfectly well; but perhaps more importantly (b), they know (and are trained in the ancient crafts of political control) the importance of acting in secret, while at the same time putting up effective disinformation to support outsider conclusions that they are “clueless”.

    Even if DGR had any merit, the PTB would simply perceive the movement as a threat **to their planned** take down. So, DGR has, at minimum, two challenges with which to contend: (1) trying to shape society without any power base from which to operate; and (2) encroaching on the Mafia’s turf.

    Number two is what will get you killed sooner than later. Since there isn’t any point to any of this, the real game is to simply enjoy each day. If you like to fish, go fishing, if you like being an activist, go protest. And if you like 3-D chess played on a global scale, then watch, observe, position and profit.

  • @Rob
    Okay, let me get this straight, I should not resist that which is killing us all because I might be tagged or neutralized. Instead, I should wait around to be eaten by a cannibal. Is not the idea that resistance is useless just another form of the same hubris that got us into this mess.

    Sorry, I’m not going to wait around for my special cannibal, neutralization is not such a bad thing, we all get neutralized at some point.

    @B9K9
    Land redistribution would handle the problem. Family organic farmers can get more out of the land than industrial agriculture can. There is still going to be a die off, but at least people have a fighting, or rather a working chance. The better shape the land base is left in the better the chance. To say that you know for certain that no one has any chance is, again, hubris, of the negative sort but hubris non the less.

    I would encourage all to get up off their butts and resist in what ever way suits them best. Please, Please don’t commit suicide, if you must, get yourself taken out by the empire in the act of resisting, don’t just waste your life by taking yourself out. Stake yourself out if that’s the way you feel. Take some bastard with you if you can.

    The empire lives in a comfortable hubris, why imitate empire with our own negative version of hubris? Because it’s comfortable? Because we can just enjoy the ride and play airplane with our hand out the window? Should the certainty of NTE be a thing we find comfort in to the point of inaction curling up into a paralysed little ball?

  • @Daniel So, for those who choose to resist, do so knowing that this is solely your choice, and abandon all hope that it will ever amount to anything. But as long as one is being driven by a moral imperative, it doesn’t need to amount to anything other than what it is in itself.

    Good comments, especially your conclusion. However folks with moral imperatives all too often think that those who don’t share them are acting immorally. Given NTE the moral imperative some feel to resist comes from an internal idea of right action in the face of certain doom. That is fine. But the temptation, once one embraces a moral imperative is to think that others who don’t are acting immorally

    We are ALL going to die one way or another. If you have loved ones depending on you for physical or emotional support, it hardly makes sense to become martyrs or to in fact bring early death or imprisonment on those loved ones. If we could fashion a better world, or even save the present on from destruction one can make the moral case that martyrdom of self and loved ones is worth it.

    If on the other hand you are a loner, with no one dependent on you, you can do as you please, but just remember you are doing it for your own internal comfort, nothing more.

    That is the stark reality of looming extinction. Nothing matters. Yet everything matters more. Things like being kind, not putting your own agenda on others, enjoying beauty while you can, taking care of those dependent on you, etc. So much to matter in the years before nothing matters.

    Oh and getting your tubes tied, now that really really matters, for the unborn if they had a voice would sure prefer to remain unborn rather than come into a world of political and climate chaos only to die young.

  • Did the Neanderthals exterminate the Denisovans? Did our Cro-Magnon brothers exterminate the Neanderthals? And perhaps our ancestral Homo habilis an Australopithecine lineage or two? If so, Adolf Hitler and Heinreich Himmler were only following an ancient tradition when they were rudely interrupted. And the “white” folks were greatly assisted in the New World by Old World viruses, particularly smallpox, which in the Indian (brown, mot red) tradition, is the visitation by the goddess of Spring.

    For over two million years since our Australopithecine ancestors first started using the crudest of stone tools and implements, very slight progress in innovation and improvement was evident until about 50,000 years ago, coinciding with the time of our exodus from Africa. We did produce a culture in Australia that was stable for 40,000 years, and the same was generally true for much of Africa until European colonisation.

    However, cultural evolution proceeds a helluva lot faster than biological evolution, and when it involves just one species (other competing hominins having been extincted early on), it leaves all other species (currently at the estimated rate of 200 a day) in the dust, and so is severely disruptive to ecosystems. The acquisition of the ability to harness long-sequestered solar energy by burning buried sunshine greatly accelerated the process, with a cultural forcing towards irreversible societal adaptations to the new conditions, which spells an end to the society with any end to the existing energy regime. The millions (billions?) whose very existences depend on this configuration of can be expected to fight tooth & nail to the very end to maintain Business As Usual.

    Flights of fancy notwithstanding: even the transition itself to a more advanced Kardashev level involves too many orders of magnitude in energy, intelligence and wisdom beyond what we can muster now. Invoking technology to provide such wherewithal puts the cart before the horse: technology is the innovativeness to enhance and harness energy flows in a manner that converts resource into product. No exploitable energy sources, no technology. And while technology can stretch the usefulness of low-ERoEI, it cannot fix the problem of no-ERoEI.

    Too many folks equate the act of diagnosing a terminal condition with a lack of compassion. And the appropriate response to a terminal condition, which may be starkly different from that necessary for a cure, may be framed as a lack of caring, while in fact the other attempt may be the reckless and feckless course. Palliation is better than inappropriate attempts to cure. The energies devoted to self-sufficiency and independence from the hierarchical system called society are well-directed in either case. But with NTE looming, it is now hospice care, not radical surgery.

  • Today I watched Jeremy Jackson’s lecture “Ocean Apocalypse”. (caution, lower the volume before starting) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zMN3dTvrwY

    The introduction is a bit long but it’s well worth watching, he has much information to impart and does so in a very compelling way, and he discusses much more than just the oceans too. But he is a fascinating walking contradiction (who isn’t) of shall we say extreme “realism” and unfounded, hopeful optimism.

    For instance one teenager in the audience asked him what she can do so that she and her future children don’t have a horrible future. He should have told her “don’t have children” but he didn’t. He told her to vote!! As much as he understands the three-pronged anthropogenic attack on all of the earth’s ecosystems – over-extraction, pollution and climate change – he doesn’t seem to be at all aware of the corporate takeover of the government. There IS no one to vote for, there is no one running that has the slightest plan to stop the growth imperative. Pretty funny!

    I agree with KathyC – well said Daniel. It is a precarious place to accept NTE and try to discern what path to take between now and then.

    As far as DGR goes, perhaps I’m not watching the news enough (never actually) but I don’t ever see anything that seems like it is industrial sabatoge. So it is starting to look more to me like just more posturing of which there is plenty in every activist group or any sort I have encountered.

    Color me disillusioned.

  • I doubt that TPTB will use deadly force in order to stop activists from damaging their private property. They can simply send someone around to scare the ever living crap out of you. How does the threat of being buried alive sound? It would definitely get my attention.

    In fact, if DGR does get around to blowing up something the efforts most likely will have been infiltrated and partially guided to benefit a PTB agenda. Don’t forget, they haven’t set up a Security State for nothing.

    I don’t know if this can be called resistance or not, but I want to share something I did to make the future look a little less scary for me. When I saw the suffering from lack of water after Katrina, I decided to come up with something to make myself water secure. It dawned on me that I have four shallow well points in my back yard for pumping water to my lawn sprinklers (which I don’t use any more, wasting resources on a lawn is for losers). So, I mail ordered a small, well built hand pump for $99 and figured out how to hook it up to one of the well points and, presto, it works like a charm! I removed the pump for safe storage and capped the well point, bought a Berkie filter and we’re set. Got water for bathing and toilets too, if necessary.

    I plan on getting an extra pump and lots of extra fittings, That’s how important water is. You can do it too! It was easy. If you don’t have well points get a pump and fittings anyway. You can always hook up to any well point. Once you find the watered landscape it should be relatively easy to find the row of points. They are usually made of simple 1″ PVC.

    Was that an act of resistance? I don’t know. Usually, just getting off my ass is an act of resistance for me. But if a sudden collapse comes I don’t want to be caught with my pants down. Know what I mean? I don’t think I’ll last very long after collapse but at least we won’t die of thirst.

    I think this passage from Spoon River Anthology, by somebody or other, works here. It’s close and I updated it a little.

    “I say to you, LIFE’S a GAMBLER, head and shoulders above us all. He makes the percentages hard to conquer, and stacks the deck to catch your weakness and not to meet your strength. And he gives you two hundred thousand years to play. Because if you can’t win in two hundred thousand, you can’t win at all. So, GET OUT OF THE ROOM! Get out of the room when your time is up. It’s mean to sit and fumble the cards, cursing your losses, leaden eyed, whinin’ to try and try.”

    Good luck with all your efforts. Just don’t raise no army, you got to feed ’em and they might head my way.

  • I believe in resistance because I think it can succeed. If it didn’t comport with my moral compass, however, I would have second thoughts. But it does. Moral beings are what we mostly are, including those who eschew resistance. En route to extinction, why would anyone become somebody different? If human behavior didn’t go beyond the imperative merely to stay alive, we would be something unrecognizable.

    But back to resistance that could succeed. The glaciers are all but gone. Arctic summer ice is next. It get’s hotter every year. Methane is saying you ain’t seen nothing yet. Then there are TPTB, who are either amazingly stupid, amazingly evil, or a combination of the two. Amazingly stupid has the edge. Why have they consistently embarked on suicidal policies all this time? If they were aliens sent to destroy Planet Earth, they could not have done a better job. There has been industrial agriculture with poisoning of water. There has been clear cutting of the planet’s lungs, refuse dumped in the ocean, extermination of species, sprawl, humongous GHG emissions… Which part of making Earth livable FOR THEMSELVES did TPTB not get? TPTB are great at secrecy and domination, but what else? Are we to believe they know exactly what’s going on a broader level, when they can’t even ensure their own long-term survival? Psychoanalysts might know what gives with TPTB. I sure don’t. In the meantime, they have a choice of doing a Dr. Strangelove and blowing up everything, or backing off a bit from their nefarious endeavors. None of this is at odds with resistance.

    Psychopaths who are addicted to suicidal behavior are dangerous. They see opposition as a threat, and react homicidally to it. You can only get around them by intense thought, observation, persistence, calm and patience. These qualities, while they may not in themselves overcome the blocks, can take advantage of the inevitable “accidents” that break the rigid behavioral molds, whence the addicted can be gently and firmly guided to more productive behavior. We might be dealing with hostage takers with a bomb, threatening to blow the block to smithereens if demands are not met. We may need some sane ex-police psychologists to help dissolve this impasse. All of this is resistance. Panic, rage or resignation are not effective behaviors in dealing with psychopaths with a bomb.

  • For me, just knowing that panic will soon set in among the ruling elites makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over. I hope they suffer some deeeeeep existential shit! Biblical! Wailing and gnashing of teeth!!!

    Here is where a certain form of resistance can be a great moral and emotional outlet for all of us: ridicule!

    First rule: non-violence. That is absolute!

    How about a HUMMER DAY? Buy your spray paint now! Dents? They don’t hurt anybody. But dragging people out of their Hummers and cutting their heads off, that’s a no-no!

    Street theater! Ridicule the utter stupidity of the ruling classes! It should be easy, there’s LOTS of material to work with!

    Colleges and universities, they deserve tons of ridicule. After all they were so stupid that they ruined the planet! Carry huge banners on campus saying, “This Place Is A Giant Brain Fart”

    Laugh at strutting status seekers as they stride to the door of their corporate offices. Scream funny stuff and throw shit at them. After all, haven’t they thrown a lot of shit at us and smeared their shit all over everything near and dear to us? They deserve a shitstorm!

    By the way, save some shit for the cops! HEE HEE HEE!

    If we’re gonna’ die, let’s die LAUGHING!!!

    (And, YES, it’s still too late)

  • @B9K9
    @Daniel

    It’s fascinating that you two seem to dislike each other so much, since what you both say is so similar, but converging from different vectors.

    The Elephant in the Room, to use a cliche, is that H. Sapiens is an evolutionary failure (99%+ certain, IMO). I would go further and say that H. Sapiens is an abomination, collectively, which the universe would be well rid of.

    Especially those creatures and worlds, if they exist, that would catch A Bad Case of Humans had we somehow overcome our evolutionary dead-endedness to become extra-solar. Thank Whatever there’s zero chance of that.

    Dimestore psychology break: Perhaps it’s that partial similarity that drives your personal dislike. After all, it’s a common H. Sapiens characteristic that even people who agree with each other can and often do dislike each other if that agreement was arrived at from different directions and motives. Yet another evolutionary dead-end for our species, as if we need another one.

    Now I suppose you’ll both pile on me for suggesting that. That’s OK by me. Call me a noob or whatever suits your fancy. Hey, maybe finding a common enema will unify you, as it often does in primate bands.

    For myself, I look upon both of you as pretty wise in your own unique ways, as are most people who post here.

    Who am I or is anyone to criticize how someone who accepts NTE spends their time? If B9K9 wants to amuse himself with the 3-D chess of sociopathic aristocrats, or even to foresee their antics and even profit from them, so what? If Daniel wants to spike some trees or fill some caterpiller crankcases with sugar and cement, or just to chill now, knowing that for so many years he did his duty, far more by orders of magntidue than any normal Boobus Economicus, so what?

    It’s all grist for the Last Mill Standing, run by the last slaves for the last aristocratic sociopaths who have never stopped running everything, and running it into the ground, surfing the human wave with erect penises and engorged clitorii pointing to the future (thanks, Joe Bageant, for the colorful image).

    @Gail

    I wouldn’t be so hard on Mr. Jackson. It’s hard to kick the hopium, when in bad times and places that’s what primarily keeps people going on, real or not. Also, consider that he may know that of which you speak, but finds it difficult to look into a teenager’s eyes and steal their hopium (as well as their Dog-given right to reproduce).

    In my own life, I have found it difficult to do so with young people, especially those I care about. Maybe it’s wrong to do so, but the flip side is why burden them so young with things they have zero control over, and zero ability to change the outcome one iota.

    Ever read Vonnegut’s “Cat’s Cradle”? A tremendous book that addresses many of these issues. Worth a read if you haven’t yet read it. In the “Bible” of Vonnegut’s fictitious religion, the cover states plainly, “Everything in this book is a tissue of lies!”

    Inside the cover, is said religion’s primary tenet, “Live by the lies that make you happy and healthy and true.”

    =============================================

    Now that I think about it, “Cat’s Cradle” may well be the preeminent work of fiction for people who are pretty sure or certain of NTE, for many reasons that will become clear upon reading it.

    I would strongly recommend it to anyone who reads NBL.

  • Kirk – the power of ridicule and your outline here… mmm I like it! sure could break down some barriers, especially if this breaks through in a deeper way.

    Deep Guffawing Ridicule. this has power!

  • Resistance and Anger (Stage 2)

    Some who depression explore
    Find anger turned inwards at core,
    But who knows? That’s details;
    When resistance fails,
    It’s time for depression (Stage 4).

  • Outnumbered by the ignorant and insane, overwhelmed by grief, exhausted by futility. But, I might as well rant a little anyway, for a flowing moment. Please pass the time shaker… Thanks.

    Since most humans on the planet do not have independent means to live, dependency upon interactive means is normal. Positive thinking is a requirement for entrance and participation in the vast majority of available normal interactive life continuation modalities. However, social disdain suffocates positive thinking when one is tainted by knowledge of increasingly dire circumstances and h. sapiens finality. Plain ignorance, or the insanity of willful cognitive dissonance, appear to be the only extant paths to positive thinking. Ergo: ignorance or insanity are hard wired requirements to temporarily maintain normal interactive sustenance. Normal is being locked in the bilge of a sinking ship with uncomfortably familiar monsters. Hope ossified into an abhorrently dead artificially sustained amusement. Its entertainment value has tarnished to the stage of useless and irritating corrosiveness. (insert futile howl) Apocalypse is normal. Resistance is contra-normal, and therefor, without independent means, is impossible to carryout. (howl some more here) Someone, please take the time shaker, I’ve had enough.

  • So where are we on the way to doom –

    A massive cyclone is forecast to develop in the Arctic, as shown on the image (at the link), from the Naval Research Laboratory.

    Within 2 weeks the Arctic Ocean will be completely transformed. The cyclone that appears 6 days out on both the US and European ten day forecasts will massacre the sea ice in what I call “The Great Arctic flush”.
    rest at
    https://arctic-news.blogspot.ca/2013/07/the-great-arctic-flush.html
    by Paul Beckwith

    Meanwhile steam is rising from Reactor 3 in Fukushima = that’s the one with MOX fuel which has plutonium in in. More at enews dot com or fukushima-diary dot com.

    The fact is that all the nuclear power plants still operating (439 worldwide, 100 some in the US) when the grid finally goes down will melt down and burn up. When the grid goes down there will be no way to stop the melt downs. We are toast no matter what resistance is done. OTOH if resistance brings down the grid along with industrial civ our doom will come faster and less children will be born to die early. Other than personal satisfaction one might get from resistance, the only thing it can accomplish is making the end come sooner and sparing some of the unborn.

  • little things:

    I left my car windows open on one of the hot days this week and a beautiful butterfly flew in and died under the scorching heat of the windshield (also a white moth and a bee). Today when I woke up and looked out the bedroom window one of my 7′ rose of Sharon bushes in full bloom had fallen over, it’s white flowers scattered like tears on the ground. I went out to see why and if I could just stake it back up but noticed the trunk where it meets the ground was almost totally rotted out.

    You know that i’m concerned and post about the large problems of earthquakes, volcanoes, floods and drought, the ocean dying and all, but it’s these little reminders, like road kill on the way to work, that gets to me more than anything else because it’s so immediate and plain as day. That’s what makes it real and brings the tears to my eyes while i’m alone.

  • Tom that was the truest thing you wrote so far. Beautiful, thank you.

    And Maecenas thanks for the books. I read them but it was so long ago, I should read them again. I didn’t think I was being particularly hard on Jackson, I did try to make clear that he is no more nor less a bundle of contradications than the rest of us parked here on the beach of doom…looking up at the cliff and wondering when it will be time to dance off.

    I understand the hesitation of communicating with young people – why create pain when it will serve no purpose? It’s why I don’t push the point with my own daughters. But there was more to his denial than just a reluctance to transmit bad news to youth – for instance, he mentions that he’s a Frankophile and has gone to France every year for over 20 years. So how does he reconcile his vision of an apocolypse – based on three factors, overfishing, pollution, and climate change – and continue to eat fish and fly transatlantically?

    “Live by the lies that make you happy and healthy and true.”

    I lost the ability to do that somewhere along the way.

  • http://peakwatch.typepad.com/decline_of_the_empire/

    One Last Time — A Mass Extinction In The Oceans

    (from article)

    Climate model predictions and observations reveal regional declines in oceanic dissolved oxygen, which are probably influenced by global warming. Studies indicate ongoing dissolved oxygen depletion and vertical expansion of the oxygen minimum zone (OMZ) in the tropical northeast Atlantic Ocean. OMZ shoaling may restrict the usable habitat of billfishes and tunas to a narrow surface layer. We report a decrease in the upper ocean layer exceeding 3.5 ml l−1 dissolved oxygen at a rate of ≤1 m yr−1 in the tropical northeast Atlantic (0–25° N, 12–30° W), amounting to an annual habitat loss of ~5.95×1013 m3, or 15% for the period 1960–2010. Habitat compression and associated potential habitat loss was validated using electronic tagging data from 47 blue marlin. This phenomenon increases vulnerability to surface fishing gear for billfishes and tunas, and may be associated with a 10–50% worldwide decline of pelagic predator diversity. Further expansion of the Atlantic OMZ along with overfishing may threaten the sustainability of these valuable pelagic fisheries and marine ecosystems.

    That may appear to be unfathomable goobledygook, but what it means is that hypoxia (dissolved oxygen depletion) in the upper oceans has been increasing since 1960, and this is “compressing” the habitat of the fish which were studied (tuna and billfins like blue marlin). Further expansion of the OMZ (oxygen minimum zone) “may [further] threaten the sustainablity of these valuable pelagic fisheries and marine ecosystems.”

  • Yes, it’s the little things. I used to enjoy watching the scenery go by during a car trip, but now I see dead and dying trees.

    The drums are beating over the incipient IPCC report. Every single time I see predictions for centuries end, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Actually, I feel like that for many, many reasons these days.

    For about a minute, it felt like acceptance had arrived. HA!

    Why do we see when so many others don’t? How do we despair when so many others are enjoying life? Why do we care about the arctic death spiral as others fly around the world?

    I’m so glad to have the Beach of Doom to come to when I wonder if I’m losing my mind, when I berate myself for “being so negative” blahblahblah.

    Thanks, Guy. Thanks, all.

  • @ Kirk

    yes, at least we can attempt to deprive them of their smugness – maybe give them something to think about when they are in quiet repose.

    The water well:
    2 scenarios:
    1) the marauding hordes will kill you for it. I would suggest that, when you see them coming, you toss a dead animal in it.
    2) won’t do you any good when TPTB drag you off to the FEMA camp

    @ oldgrowthforest

    Yes, crazy and stupid, and me too.

    @ Grant

    per Feb 1, 2013, report from US Dept of Veteran Affairs, 22 veterans commit suicide every day in America. Shameful.

    @ Jesse

    I agree, but if you want to celebrate murder, you might want to be real careful. The FBI and the NSA are watching… Spending the rest of your days in jail with Ted Kaczynski at a Super-Max prison in Colorado won’t be too much fun…

    I personally believe that suicide is a perfectly acceptable response to NTE and the general malaise of the privileged white guy that has become aware and is now racked with guilt. Just think it through because other people are affected – don’t make them have to deal with your mess.

    I also believe the following to be perfectly acceptable responses:
    the catatonic stare
    and
    the happy-go-lucky “who cares” attitude

    The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement (VHEMT)
    The One Commandment:“Thou shalt not procreate”

    the Church of Euthanasia
    save the planet, kill yourself

    Jesse’s Church of Euthanasia
    save the planet, kill yourself, and take some poor slob with you.

    @ Tom
    I watched my cat chase down a butterfly yesterday and eat it. He loves them, and moths too.

  • NTE – my ever changing thoughts on resistance.

    We all die. We’ve known it since we were teenagers. But, as time marches on, we don’t think much about dieing – it’s too depressing and we’re too busy.. So, whether it’s peak energy, climate change, nuclear war, economic collapse – you name it, we always plan for survival. It’s always the “other guy” who’s gonna die.

    When you hear of NTE it get’s personal. The light we’re so used to shining on the “other guy” is reflected right back at us. Extinction means me too. Oh dear. I think ulvfugl called it breaking the set. We’re gonna die. Not the idiots, not the assholes, not the sheeple and not TPTB, but all of us. Everybody. Me and you. Oh dear. If we are to consider NTE all the stuff we were projecting to the “other guy” returns like a boomerang hellfire missile and explodes in our mind. Oh dear.

    So we come here to cry or scream our final objection – “WTF HAVE WE DONE ?”

    Some talk of walking naked to the wilderness – some of growing love – some of playing hand airplane out the window of this train of doom. Some talk of resistance. Here’s my current thoughts on resistance.

    DGR, Occupy, ELF, etc – once they become visible, TPTB put the red dot on your forehead. I believe TPTB are way ahead of the curve on the whole resistance thing. I look at 911 and how TPTB had organizations and websites and limited hang-outs all in place before they did the deed. Same today – they know what we know – I’ve lived in this area for 58 years – I know the paths – atv trails, shortcuts, caves and hideouts everywhere. I also have a sharp mind – so I pretty much grok every Achilles heel of industrial civilization within 10 miles. But so do TPTB and their drones and infrared satellites.

    Then if I want to get help – I screwed that by being on Facebook and identifying my family and closest friends. And, there are millions of folks like me out there who could put the lights out in their area with a few hours of thinking and working. But any damage done would be righted in a few days or weeks. And contrary to popular theory, when you become a threat to empire, you don’t get your picture on the cover of the Rolling Stone. You get a red dot on your forehead and a billion years of rest. And if you can hide well enough to cause mischief over an extended time, they’ll gut your life and maybe even the lives of those you love.

    I don’t believe resistance can be what others direct us to do. It needs to be personal. That brings you back to who you are – what do you want to do before you go ? I think all ideas can work. Like Guy says – anything outside the mainstream. But think about it – don’t be naive and believe TPTB are stupid and preoccupied counting their money.

    I was thinking of taking 10 viagra – getting naked and painting FUCK EMPIRE across my chest then walk down the middle of our main highway. But I’m too tired and sick to get maced, tased, beat and dragged. So the gears turn round and round 🙂

    For now I’m just trying to let it flow – making it a point to spend more time with the folks I have loved my whole life and doing the things that give me pleasure. Caring for a 17yo dog, and pesting my friends to have more cook-outs ’cause tv dinners suck.

    And I still try to never miss the opportunity to goose a fool.

    NBL comments are becoming so very stimulating it would take a book just to respond to this mornings posts. Thanks to all who contribute. Hope Guy’s stats are doing the hockey stick thing 🙂

  • I’m glad you care, and are trying, but DGR has shot itself in the foot with its anti-trans stance. I love Derricks books, but the idea that he and Lierre were ready to lead anything was propostrous.

  • There are a lot of homeless veterans here at the public library. They keep to themselves, never make eye contact. I have never spoken to any of them.

    I don’t know anything about the armed forces – but, it seems to me that the bunch of 18, 19, 20 year olds that join every year must already have some serious issues to sign up for that shit. I definitely see the potential for job training – especially in the air force – but is it worth it?

    There is a new VA hospital going up in Denver. Way behind schedule, way over budget, and a totally mismanaged project. Makes me sick.

    Resistance: Look, I hate civilization, I hate crowds, I hate concrete, I hate shoes. The sad fact is that I spent a lifetime building up these things I hate – surrounding myself in it, seeking it, worshipping it. How f@#$ed up is that? I paid taxes and more taxes so that civilization could grow bigger and bigger to serve my quest to surround myself with hateful things. I championed it, I promoted it, I PAID for it. Now, since I now know better, I guess it’s perfectly logical for me to RESIST those things, but I have a hard time blaming anyone since I myself was caught up in the whole nightmare. It’s hard to get past the idea that I was born into it and I didn’t know any better and, therefore, I was innocent – and so everyone else is innocent. So, how can I resist and cause harm to those unaware innocents? For their own good? Ha!

    It sometimes seems that the Resistance is nothing more than a self-inflicted chastening by those who are simply more aware of their guilt. If I can gain a measure of redemption by making others suffer for their sins, AND not feel guilty for doing so, then I can possibly make progress to healing. But, I think not. I know some will say that the impurity of the actor should not affect the purity of the act, but I cannot separate the actor from the act, for from the actor comes the cause to act.

    So much pushing and pulling in every direction, nothing simple.

  • @ Maecenas says “It’s fascinating that you two seem to dislike each other so much, since what you both say is so similar, but converging from different vectors.”

    I don’t dislike Daniel – in fact, I’ve complimented him on his ability to write so very well. I may gently chide him about what I view as a somewhat naive outlook on life, but other than that, there’s no there, there.

    Actually, I really don’t dislike that many people at all. Since I approach life as a logical puzzle, individuals can’t really be personally blamed for whatever various shortcomings I may perceive them to possess. No one gets to choose their parents; likewise, no one gets to choose where they are born. So who has any choice in the matter?

    What is, is, and if something doesn’t agree with you, then it would be best to simply avoid, rather than confront. Nobody is changing anybody – untold millions of failed relationships/marriages are a testament to that fact. So, focus on what you enjoy, and attempt to maximize the resources necessary to attain those moments.

    I happen to be good @ logic – I’ve always been able to read, watch, observe and then make a move. I have all my hair, none of it gray, and look 10 years younger than my age because I have plenty of free time in which to pursue healthy activities. It also results from eliminating the stress that accompanies buying the lie and willingly putting the yoke around one’s neck in order to serve as a tax donkey.

    Float around, stay quiet, understand history, play the game.

  • ‘We’re gonna die. Not the idiots, not the assholes, not the sheeple and not TPTB, but all of us.’ -bob s. (bad initials)

    just to clarify, i consider all civilized humans to be sheeple. civilization is a culture that domesticates all beings that can be controlled and exploited for profit, plants and animals, including humans.

    i refer to myself and other single civilized sheeple as a sherson. i hate being a sherson, living under the boot heel of ‘authority’, but hey, what’s a sherson to do? civilization now covers pretty much the whole inhabitable globe, minus a few isolated pockets of ‘savages’ still extant in very remote locales. no escaping it. no walking away from it. even out in the boonies, they’ll get u, if u try to live too free, without discretion.

    i’m also at times an idiot, an asshole, and a ‘ptb’. we all are, to some extent, imo. all flawed ‘sinners’. all guilty, or innocent, as rob put it so well: ‘I have a hard time blaming anyone since I myself was caught up in the whole nightmare. It’s hard to get past the idea that I was born into it’ … and so were ‘they’. no one asks to be born. no one chooses to be flawed, idiotic, an asshole, a ‘ptb’. free will’s an illusion. perhaps this is all but a dream, a nightmare that’ll be over sooner or later. dreamers can dream. maybe those sheeple who have had near death experiences and claim to have experienced something like nirvana during their aborted passage away from this dream/nightmare… maybe they’re not delusional. we can only hope.

  • Some really good comments on this thread. I keep on learning, in spite of the stupid, conditioned parts of my mind… Amazing how realization of our perilous position brings out depths of feeling and intelligence in some of us. Sweet are the uses of adversity…

  • ” rather, he’d been developing his homestead to support him in whatever he really wants to do with his life.”

    Of course. Get the minimum met – shelter, food, ability to be clean, community, and then be creative and productive in a non-destructive way. You can actually be and do many, many things that we do now without technology and without destruction. The only reason we don’t think so is due to our own intellectual and philosophical limitations.

    We went, as a culture, from being religious fundamentalists to being material fundamentalists. In doing so, we have actually inhibited our abilities to think and reason, the very things we believe we get from all our measurements and labels.

    I keep speaking of Native Americans as a comparison because I know the differences there, and they are the differences that count. About 1500, Europeans had big ships and Indians had canoes. Those canoes were works of art that were highly maneuverable, fast, and adaptable. When looking at small watercraft alone, Natives were building better small “boats,” is my understanding, by far.

    How is that? They didn’t have rulers. They didn’t have records. How did they keep improving and improving the keel, the bow, the weight, the draw, until they reached such sophistication without records and rulers? They did it without tearing down a forest to build gazillions of records and rulers that require roads and infrastructure and universal education systems to teach everyone how to use the said records and rulers in a single, systematic and mechanical manner?

    They had no interest at all in measuring and labeling and universalizing and mechanizing the world. That cannot be overstated. They knew where it led. Where we are.

    When they had a need, they met it. If they needed to measure things, they held them against each other and decided the value; they didn’t need someone powerful someone to tell them the value, which is the unintentional effect of rulers. It becomes more than a measure, it becomes a value. If they needed to measure things that were too distant from each other or too complex, they created a measure appropriate for the situation which they then applied, accomplished their goals, and left behind.

    Now that is reason. Beyond that, destruction becomes something else. No matter how clever, it becomes hubris. There is hubris in measuring Venus and murdering the Earth to do it.

  • tvt perhaps this is all but a dream, a nightmare that’ll be over sooner or later. dreamers can dream. maybe those sheeple who have had near death experiences and claim to have experienced something like nirvana during their aborted passage away from this dream/nightmare… maybe they’re not delusional. we can only hope.

    Actually I hope not. I never mind going to sleep, I only mind not being able to get to sleep. I also mind having dreams – they disrupt the blessed nothingness. Its the best part of sleep and endless nothingness is nothing to fear. Nirvana could get damn boring don’t you think. Isn’t it contrast that makes things so good. A cool bath after a hot day, is good. A cool bath on a cool day – no. Doesn’t a meal taste better if you are really hungry. Aren’t treats treats because they are rare. The cardinal is so usual around here we forget to note how lovely they are. All good all the time gets boring. Yet the antidote to boredom is contrast and difficulties to be conquered. And after conquering a lifetime of problems one gets tired of that too. Some days I get so tired of solving garden problems I even think of giving up the garden.

  • Great News:

    The CIA will partially fund a $630,000 study by the National Academy of Sciences that will investigate how humans could influence the Earth’s climate using ‘geoengineering.’

    According to Mother Jones’ Dana Liebelson and Chris Mooney, the project will look into several techniques for altering the environment to prevent climate change.

    The first, known as “solar radiation management,” works by pumping chemicals into the atmosphere that reflect some of the sun’s rays back into space in order to reduce the amount of heat retained due to greenhouse gases.

  • Pat…The first, known as “solar radiation management,” works by pumping chemicals into the atmosphere that reflect some of the sun’s rays back into space in order to reduce the amount of heat retained due to greenhouse gases.

    “Chemicals” sound so ominous when, according to Tim Garret, salt spray mist will be generated by specially modified ships at sea or injected by aircraft in the upper atmosphere where it is hoped that the cloud reflectivity will be made brighter. Salt should make cloud vapor droplets smaller and therefore brighter. Tim Garrett also doesn’t believe it will work. By my way of thinking, it’s at least worth a try. We don’t have the luxury of time for studies at this point.

  • The link provided will take you to a Radio Ecoshock transcript where DR Tim Garrett discusses geo-engineering during an interview. It’s an interesting read. The cloud brightening theories are toward the end of his discussion.

    http://www.ecoshock.org/transcripts/ES_Garrett_Transcript.htm

  • How People Work

    Forget all the lumpers and splitters
    And other kinds of bullshitters;
    Every thing that we do,
    We’re just trying to
    Boost feel-good neurotransmitters.

  • Climate Change in the Arctic is moving faster than anywhere else on earth. This new over-view report from the Apollo-Gaia Project is based on observational data, analysis of feedback dynamics and trend projection. Implications and consequences of Arctic change are spelled out. The report is released in two formats, a web-linked PDF and a pair of supporting video presentations. It can be found here: http://www.apollo-gaia.org/ArcticDynamics.html

  • oldgrowthforest,

    “You can actually be and do many, many things that we do now without technology and without destruction. The only reason we don’t think so is due to our own intellectual and philosophical limitations.”

    I’m trying to say something like that below, but with nowhere near the ease and flow. You are fortunate to know so much about another culture, a highly refined culture, outside our own very limiting one.

    I am blessed to have an alternative cultural experience too. But it is not very old or refined–4-5 hundred years, most of it under slavery and colonialism. It’s advantages are that it’s a living, mainstream, hybrid culture. It is raw, rough, untidy, often violent, often sweet and kind, often primitive, often complexly hierarchical, always robust and energetic. It has been greatly enriched by the spirituality and social-justice conscience of Rastafari, and presents some elements for a vision for a hybrid culture here and abroad.

    General (mostly questions and random notes)

    Thoughts Toward a Cultural Style Appropriate for NTE Resistance:

    – No isolation from mainstream culture. We blend in and mix in everywhere. We can’t inhabit pure enclaves outside of industrial civilization. (There’s no hidin’ place out there.) We have to modify it from the inside.

    – Not too many monolithic endeavors; instead, lot’s of little ones that work together.

    – Resistance is not about hurting anyone. It’s about preventing and alleviating suffering to the greatest possible degree. It’s not about killing off 6 billion people.

    – It’s not even about directly killing off industrial civilization.

    – It’s less about doing anything different and more about stopping destructive actions.

    – As my mother would repeat, like a litany, there is good and bad in everyone. TPTB, the CIA, legislators, the military, the Supreme Court, men and women, each of us. (I didn’t see things this way before coming to NBL.)

    I seek messed up, half hearted alternatives. Negligent, inefficient backyard garden mixed with WalMart or TJ’s shopping. Nothing pure will work. All must blend in with the general structure of industrial civilization. WalMart at least *claims* it is starting to buy from local farmers. That’s something.

    Successful resistance might see a world looking like it does today, with almost invisible alterations, leaving in its tow a huge program of transformation to last a thousand years. That implies voluntary non-reproduction by women. That in turn implies security for women from cradle to grave in the farthest reaches of the world. They only want to live and not suffer. Let’s not perpetuate this myth: “Don’t they realize, after all, that they’re what’s wrong with the world? Stupid, uneducated third world people, breeding like bunnies!?

    But I say they are not the problem. The problem are privileged white men who understand nothing of civility, kindness or tolerance for people or planet…

    So we bugger on with the world we have now while seeking to minimize its damage.

    As oldgrowthforest points out, many things we assume to be prohibitively difficult are not. For instance, I have personally learned from John Jeavons of Ecology Action in CA that at least one adult can grow all they need to eat in 100 square feet of land.

    http://www.johnjeavons.info/video.html

    Another issue, one with which I have no experience is nuclear radiation after grid collapse. Would it be possible to store lake-size bodies of contaminated water for cooling nearby that could be pumped by a variety of spare generators–solar, biofuel, wind, stored near the sites? No need to panic the public. Just attempting to avoid future Fukushima?

    Why must every simple, commonsense remedy be seen as impossible?

    If we have 17 years to carry on (granted the unlikelihood of a sudden one-day extinction–there IS the prospect of sudden, universal nuclear immolation, however) that is a long time to hang out on the beach of doom. It ignores the fact that NTE is happening ALREADY to poor non-white people throughout the globe, not to include animals everywhere. What is the appropriate response to those facing extinction TODAY? It’s back to saving one fox or one bee or one hummingbird or one Trayvon Martin at a time. That MO sucks, but it beats doing nothing.

    Does the subjugation of women enhance the power of TPTB?

    Does atheism and meaninglessness belief make it easier to be nihilistic?

    TPTB might know every time we scratch, or every pinon tree within my county. They certainly have aerial photos, maps and measurements of my house. But they have not one frigging clue how to make the world livable for themselves and their children. To spend so much energy on control on dominance, and so little on their own survival bespeaks an pathological addiction to power. It is an affliction most virulent among the males of our species, the homicidal cutting edge of a homicidal civilization.

    Privileged white male hegemony is the proximate cause of NTE, nothing more, nothing less. Privileged white men have as much or more responsibility for resisting NTE than anyone else. The lizards in my yard don’t want to hear excuses, or why resistance is futile. They say, you caused it. You figure it out…

    Where are the psychologists and anthropologists when we need them? The pickle we’re in concerns them more than it does scientists, for NTE is a human problem.

    Australian aborigines made the world stand still for 40,000 years. And if you believe it was some innate (homo sapiens determined) flaw in them that brought them shiploads of British thugs, then come on down and join us magical thinkers.

    Among the things that are not economically or technically prohibitive, having only to do with human will and insight.

    – growing some of your own food, if it’s even one tomato in a pot.

    – composting your own food scraps and other organic waste

    – get plumbers, electricians and carpenters to teach elementary school. No corporations please.

    – teach kids how to make windmills

    – encourage corporations to do greener, more low-tech things, while buying more from local producers

    – encourage more public transportation. My county just put a free shuttle between my remote-ish community and the city.

    – prioritize money expenditures differently. There is more money in the system than is needed. It’s just in the wrong places.

    – maintain the vegetation under your control, and encourage the planting of more.

    This was just a seat-of-the-pants quick sampling of what might be done in spite of TPTB domination…

    TPTB and Iraq. Were they aware that their deBathification policy would lead to civil war? Is their hard-nosed foreign policy paying off in, say, Africa? Who are TPTB, anyway? U identifies them as national and regional power groups like China an Russia and others. We don’t sufficiently understand what unites these blocs, and how they were work together, despite competition, to repress the majority of humanity and the Earth. What are the prospects for countries outside these blocs? To what extent are PTB blocs dependent on fossil fuel and military might? Can they hold together in some other way, while standing up against the others?

  • On the need for involuntary apoptosis

    Wiki defines apoptosis as follows: In contrast to necrosis, which is a form of traumatic cell death that results from acute cellular injury, apoptosis generally confers advantages during an organism’s life cycle. For example, the differentiation of fingers and toes in a developing human embryo occurs because cells between the fingers apoptose; the result is that the digits are separate. Unlike necrosis, apoptosis produces cell fragments called apoptotic bodies that phagocytic cells are able to engulf and quickly remove before the contents of the cell can spill out onto surrounding cells and cause damage.

    Between 50 and 70 billion cells die each day due to apoptosis in the average human adult. For an average child between the ages of 8 and 14, approximately 20 billion to 30 billion cells die a day.

    If the super organism known as the human species expects to survive a little while longer, then about 80% of its 7.2 billion units must apoptose soon, very soon. It’s unlikely, however, that this will happen in time to preserve much of the biosphere … On the bright side, the cockroaches, which have been around about 350 million years, will probably be just fine.

    The other silver lining is that the survival of the bugs will finally silence the New Age mythologists who keep insisting that evolution is teleological and selects for greater and greater intelligence. The universe, I am happy to say, is completely indifferent to human existence. The universe is not for anything. The narratives on this blog which morn the mass extinction presuppose a story of sin and fallenness and fail to grasp that “nature” (another cultural construct, by the way) is a churning vortex of resource competition and killing. If we rape and kill Gaia, no one will care. Gaia doesn’t care because planets are not giant mommas … No narrative is unfolding in nature. Species, planets and stars just come and go.

    If you want to stop the teary eyed orgy of self pity, then overcome the psychological predisposition to impose narrative structures of sin and redemption (bad humans and good nature) on processes which are inherently meaningless.

  • @ depressive

    “If you want to stop the teary eyed orgy of self pity….”

    So I suppose that just makes you the saddest perverse voyeur of them all. Thankfully, you rarely post here. How about finding something better to do with your time, instead of furthering your own sense of meaninglessness by attempting to explain what “we” fail to grasp.

    But then again, maybe one person’s simple love of wilderness, is just anothers “psychological predisposition to impose narrative structures of sin and redemption”.

    Good lord!

  • Artleads – absolutely wonderful and so full of heart. I am onboard with everything on your list. thanks again for expanding even more on your vision of “the path of least resistance” beyond just tactics, to more of the full strategy.

    “Successful resistance might see a world looking like it does today, with almost invisible alterations, leaving in its tow a huge program of transformation to last a thousand years.”

    I would rather not hear how this is impossible. sure anyone can say it, again, but it really does not need always need to be said. live and love like there will be another thousand years. do the simple things, the only things that have always mattered, the things that involve the kindness of the human heart. the simple things of the human heart are the only things that count. (on the question of kids, my choice and my wife’s choice was a clear no, but my friends who have kids, I just genuinely wish them the best.)

    this list of yours Artleads, and the things that can flow out of it, it feels so right.

    “Why must every simple, commonsense remedy be seen as impossible?”

    because that is exactly what had to be annihilated to make way for consumer capitalist culture. simple kindness and common sense are not commodities. now when all we have are commodities, we discover that simple kindness and common sense are all that matters, and all that is left to try.

  • My comment for today and to quote my mother; “Free your libido or get a labotomy”

    I’m in total agreement with you mo flow, loved oldgrowthforest and artleads comments.

  • More Bargaining

    The bargaining’s getting intense—
    Doom must be making more sense;
    But it’s what to expect
    When the world’s getting wrecked,
    And with similar fatal events.

  • ‘universal education systems to teach everyone how to use the said records and rulers in a single, systematic and mechanical manner’ -ogf (oldgrowthforest)

    those ‘education systems’ are used to try to control how and what we think, and they’re remarkably successful imo. few have a clue to what degree they’re being indoctrinated. not even the teachers and most higher school officials have a clue. remarkable, their ignorance. surreal. the whole fucking culture is thus structured. civilization is all about power and control, hierarchy, exploitation; at least the sort of civilization (as shown in ‘the tribe of (the) suit’) that has spread like a virulent cancer across the globe, fossil fueled and rapacious.

    ‘systematic and mechanical manner’ – i think that’s a good description for how our civilization trains us to think and perceive. right on, ogf!
    ___________________________________________________________

    ‘Nirvana could get damn boring don’t you think(?)’

    take off your human blinders, kc, and imagine an existence in which each moment is brand new, unique. time doesn’t exist except for that moment. imagine bliss that never ages or lessens. imagine being without limits. imagine something better than oblivion!

    ‘How People Work’

    hey btd, i read the other day that u were a dog. i thought u were a donkey. what gives? r u the product of some ultra kinky miracle inter-species animal sex that resulted in a donkey/dog? should i start referring to u as btdd? anyway, once again, u nailed it with that limerick. we need dr. feelgood!

  • NTE IS intense, and it would be ridiculous were it not to be. Life exists to perpetuate life. The lizards in my yard (with the bids chiming in for good measure) assure me that they have done nothing wrong, and that they deserve to live. I’ve been railing against killing culture and nature longer than many people here have been alive. I’m not begging for anything or making unreasonable demands. I could be saying, I told you so, but I restrain any impulse to do so, pointless as that would be.

    I had the privilege of hearing the late, great Wangari Maathai speak on a number of occasions. One mythical tale she would repeat was about a forest fire, which only one lone humming bird attempted to address. He would go the river and pick up what water could hold in his little beak. Then he would fly to the fire and deposit it there. He kept doing the same thing over and over, but the fie raged on. The elephant, the giraffe, the rhino, and all the big animals looked on derisively. What do you think you’re doing, bird, they asked. Don’t you see you’re not doing any good? To which the bird replied, “I’m doing the best I can.” How nice it would be if the big animals were to have helped as well.

    Mo flow,

    Thanks for the supportive comments. The thousand years? It seemed like a good symbolic figure to put out there. No logic to it. There’s an evangelical meme which “prophesies” a great and apocalyptic upheaval where all but a small fraction of (presumably, “saved”) humanity will perish, with a thousand years of peace to follow. I guess I’m half heartedly trying to pull all the mythical narratives about NTE together.

    More to the point, I’m thinking that an enlightened world wouldn’t look like a Buckminster Fuller invention. Enlightenment would only occur inside people. The world would be completely transformed, based on the ability to see it as a miracle, but it would (or might) still look the same. Such a transformation presupposes that resistance had “succeeded.” As though it had reached a tipping point, where the order of things was set in reverse without any obvious visible signs thereof. Collapse would get worse as a result of what’s been already triggered, even as we stopped contributing fuel to it. (This presupposes the humans are not hardwired to destruction any more than to the opposite, and can respond in a practical way to the threat of immediate extinction.)

    In an enlightened scenario, the world would be ecologically denuded and overwhelming scarcity and challenge would reign. That could be where a thousand years of coming to grips with this far more difficult but still survivable world would apply. Coastal cities would be abandoned. Mass migrations would occur. Voluntary non-procreation would shrink population, although collapse would do that too. This is the rosy scenario.

  • @ depressive lucidity

    …The universe, I am happy to say, is completely indifferent to human existence. The universe is not for anything…No narrative is unfolding in nature. Species, planets and stars just come and go….

    The problem you have, depressive lucidity, is that your own critique is ITSELF a cultural construct, is ITSELF an imposed narrative structure.

    All that YOU have done is to substitute meaninglessness for God or Gaia or whatever other theme others have seen.

    I know very well that your nihilism comes from existenstialism and post modernism and from the Enlightenment project to get God and religiosity out of science and out of the Universe, and I’m not arguing a case to return God or to argue a case for teleology either.

    However, having gone into this in some depth, the whole matter is a pile of ideological bullshit. There is no EVIDENCE that science can present to demonstrate that the Universe does not have a direction and a purpose.

    What we have is a priesthood of physicists who will bamboozle any enquiry with arcane rubbish which does not stand up to any sort of rigorous enquiry.

    The entropy heat death stuff, the multiverse stuff, the string theory stuff, I mean, these guys are magicians who can create new universes on a blackboard with chalk in two minutes, and then wipe them away with a cloth, and it’s on that basis that there either is or isn’t any meaning or teleology. It’s high order bullshit.

    And it changes every week. For the entropy thing to work, the Universe has to be closed, or so I believe. But stuff goes into the black holes, and so it isn’t closed. And now someone says that stuff that goes into the black holes doesn’t get squidged into oblivion but emerges intact at the other side into a new Universe. And all that stuff about the Cosmological Constant.

    So, depressive lucidity, until there is EVIDENCE, your story about meaninglessness is no better than anybody else’s story, is it.

    I used to buy the standard rhetoric from Dawkins, Dennet et al, way back, but it’s ideology, not science, and I’m more discerning these days. Given NTE, we’re never going to find out.

    @ Artleads

    I’ll give you credit for one of the better efforts at straw clutching, and you’ve woven the damn things into such a neat corn dolly I hardly have the heart to stamp on it, but look, I have to run it through my doom filter and it’ll get all chewed up to hell…

    You’re leaving out so many factors that mess up your proposition…

    First of all, the time lag. What do you think it is going to be LIKE in thirty years time ?

    What we have now is the result of the CO2 emissions from 30 years ago.

    Emissions have risen ever since and are still rising, faster than ever, with no indication that they will stop rising…

    So what does that tell you that we can expect ?

    And look at Guy’s list of irreversible feedbacks…

    Everybody is going to hate me, because everybody wants to have some hope. But I try to see the situation absolutely as it is, not how anybody would LIKE it to be.

    The climate has been destabilised, It does NOT return to stability EVER. No matter WHAT WE DO.

    By ever, I mean 80 to 100,000 years.

    So, for a start, if you are going to make a plan for the future ( that you are not going to have ) plan for having a climate that is totally chaotic and unpredictable.

  • Oh how we cling to hope, any hope… we even create hope when there is none… out of thin dry air, and soggy dreams. If only our imagination could just “Make it so!”.

    Too much Star Trek. Too much Hollywood and TV. Too much religion. There are times when real hope simply reaches an end. When a species reaches an end. Given our self absorbed consciousness this is an emotionally difficult prospect to conceive and believe about ourselves. So, many don’t.

    Yet, overwhelming evidence, and obvious trends that can only be ignored with strenuous and ultimately exhausting effort, clearly show that the inescapable trajectory we are on… leads to human extinction. Soon.

    We can twiddle around with all the notions and happy mind meals we want to cook up, but that will never change the uncomfortable evidence and all too obvious trends.

    Even history is revealing… (If we ignore J. M. Greer’s distorted projections.) Humans have been rehearsing, struggling, experimenting, with isolated crises of the same nature as this final unprecedented scene, many times before, without ever discovering the key point of success that would be required to unlock this one.

    We have contended with political turmoil, wars, oil spills, famines, epidemics, pestilences, volcanic eruptions, mud slides and avalanches, typhoons, tornadoes, earthquakes, fires, floods, droughts, toxic pollution, automobile crashes, airplane crashes, collapsing bridges, train derailments, steam engine explosions, intentional nuclear explosions, and even unintentional tidal waves and uncontrollable nuclear melt downs — but… we have never been able to prevent their consequences.

    The unpreventable consequence of our self induced global predicament is near term human extinction.

    Uh, would you like some fries with that?

  • “Nobody is changing anybody.” B9K9

    Well there’s the rub.

  • Daniel Says: @ depressive
    “If you want to stop the teary eyed orgy of self pity….”
    So I suppose that just makes you the saddest perverse voyeur of them all. Thankfully, you rarely post here. How about finding something better to do with your time, instead of furthering your own sense of meaninglessness by attempting to explain what “we” fail to grasp.
    But then again, maybe one person’s simple love of wilderness, is just anothers “psychological predisposition to impose narrative structures of sin and redemption”.
    Good lord!
    ———————————–
    “Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!”

    Daniel’s efforts to become the blog’s Torquemada enforcing proper nte commiseration is every bit as funny as BTD’s best poetry.

    “If you want to stop the teary eyed orgy of self pity, then overcome the psychological predisposition to impose narrative structures of sin and redemption (bad humans and good nature) on processes which are inherently meaningless.” -DL

    This blog’s creed is that humans are the most horrible thing ever created, thanks to our DNA. It’s inevitable that people would follow the logic of that theory and take the next step to hatred of the creator of that DNA, Mama Earth herself, and also all her creation. DL’s right, Mama Earth is a miserable failure, we should hate her even more than we hate the human species. I especially hate her for her failure to hurry up and “bat last.”

    Also, when is Guy going to realize that his allowing frequent essays emphasizing “resistance”, has the same effect on his regular cast of bloggers as the priest’s holy water had on Linda Blair in the Exorcist. It fukin’ burns.

  • @ Artleads

    You know, I think you are a very nice man, and you’ve put a lot of heart into your vision of how we could get through this mess, and I’m not just going to piss on your plan just because I can, to make people miserable.

    People hate me because I destroy their hope. That’s not my fault. Like Sun Tzu, the Art of War, this has nothing to do with sentiment, neither love nor hate, not hope nor despair come into it. It’s about physics and biology and the actual reality of what is happening, which has to include geo-politics and human nature too.

    So I’ll try to address some of the points that you made.

    The Fukes. It’s true, we probably could find ways to safely contain the nuclear power stations. People are very clever and ingenious.

    But look at the reality. Look at what has happened at Fukushima. Look at what is happening at the stations in USA. At Hanford. In practice, nobody does it. That’s the reality. Not what you would HOPE, or LIKE, but what actually happens. And all around the world, countries build MORE, over a hundred. And there is still no way of safely disposing of the waste.

    This is not only a practical and engineering problem. It’s a problem of social and administrative systems. America is dysfunctional. Having private corporations running nuclear power stations for profit does not work. Putting them in public ownership probably doesn’t work very much better either. The whole thing is an insane mess. Not to mention the nuclear weapons.

    Why must every simple, commonsense remedy be seen as impossible?

    Because, if you have ever tried to fight the system and make any changes, you discover that any new remedy is a threat to entrenched established interests which will resist any threat. What you see as commonsense, they see as madness. Ask kevin moore.

    If there is big money involved, they will kill you. Over minor things, they just obstruct you or don’t co-operate. You can go to the most senior people in soceity, they will smile and agree that everything that you say is correct and that they agree with every word and that they will do everything to help you. And it will all be lies. Because you are up against a network of established cronies who protect what they have. They have roots going back for centuries. Everything is tied up and protected and unless they see some advantage for themselves, any ‘remedy’ will be excluded.

    Where are the psychologists and anthropologists when we need them? The pickle we’re in concerns them more than it does scientists, for NTE is a human problem.

    Hahaha. Most of them are useless. Almost everybody who goes through the treadmill of the education system and on to an academic career ladder has sold their soul and bought the mainstream mythology, and they have a vested interest in maintaining that story. There are a few who make a speciality of being armchair dissidents and anarchists and who write books on the theory of revolutionary politics which can sometimes be interesting. Most keep their heads down because they are scared of marring their career prospects. Like the MSM, they whole of academia is tightly controlled, the top jobs go to shills for the Machine.

    Incidentally an interesting battle going on.

    http://www.livinganthropologically.com/2013/06/08/human-nature-anthropology-epigenetics/

    All the little details about how to organise locally to survive as a community are already well known and readily available, so no need to go over them.

    TPTB and Iraq. Were they aware that their deBathification policy would lead to civil war? Is their hard-nosed foreign policy paying off in, say, Africa? Who are TPTB, anyway? U identifies them as national and regional power groups like China an Russia and others. We don’t sufficiently understand what unites these blocs, and how they were work together, despite competition, to repress the majority of humanity and the Earth. What are the prospects for countries outside these blocs? To what extent are PTB blocs dependent on fossil fuel and military might? Can they hold together in some other way, while standing up against the others?

    This is a big question, too big to cover in a comment. Basically, it’s the legacy of history. Power, money, resources. The only countries that matter are the ones with nukes. Even then, Pakistan doesn’t count for much, because it’s doubtful it could do much with it’s nukes.

    The USA had an insane policy to dominate and take over the whole planet, as all Empires always do. Council for Foreign Relations, Rockefeller, Brezinski, all those megalomaniac psychopaths with ‘visions’, who think that they know better than anyone else… globalisation, neoliberalism, etc.
    There was the older Rothschild version, from the British Empire. Much the same mad imperial project. Germany’s version.

    What we have now is Russia and China and the USA/Britain/Israel. And the European Union. The situation is very unstable. India, Brazil, others, rising economically, wanting their share.

    USA is the most alarming, like Germany in the 1930s, like an individual having a nervous breakdown, not the sort of family you’d want living next door, screams and shouts and breaking furniture in the middle of the night, seems completely dysfunctional…

    EU seems fairly straight forward and easy to understand, so does Russia. China, more obscure, hard to tell what really goes on.

  • ‘Why must every simple, commonsense remedy be seen as impossible?

    Because, if you have ever tried to fight the system and make any changes, you discover that any new remedy is a threat to entrenched established interests which will resist any threat. What you see as commonsense, they see as madness. Ask kevin moore.

    If there is big money involved, they will kill you. Over minor things, they just obstruct you or don’t co-operate. You can go to the most senior people in soceity, they will smile and agree that everything that you say is correct and that they agree with every word and that they will do everything to help you. And it will all be lies. Because you are up against a network of established cronies who protect what they have. They have roots going back for centuries. Everything is tied up and protected and unless they see some advantage for themselves, any ‘remedy’ will be excluded.’

    I’m afraid U is absolutely right.

    I could give you a thousand examples from my own personal experience of how all the components of ‘the system’ -that is television, radio, ‘newspapers’, magazines, clubs, associations, political parties, governments, councils, community boards, schools, colleges, universities, police, courts, even Internet blogs -protect those who lie, deceive, exploit, manipulate, loot and pollute.

    The bulk of society self-censors to keep out any information or ideas that challenge orthodoxy.

    I have opened hundreds of ‘doors’ and what lies behind is normally dysfunctional, bordering on non-functioning. Even organisation that one might think were allies Greenpeace, Green Parties etc. turn out not to be.

    The general level of ignorance, incompetence and complacency which characterises most organisations, especially if they have any kind of monopoly, is utterly staggering.

    Last week I decided to pick up a Candidate Pack for the forthcoming local elections. The woman I spoke with at NPDC reception told me ‘they we not allowed to hand out Candidate Packs’, and that a pack would have to be posted to me via an instruction to a council officer. So I ordered one. Now it just happened that I saw the particular council officer in the street shortly afterwards and explained what had happened. She said: “Of course they can give you a pack! Do you want to get one now?”

    Upon examination of the information in the pack I found a major error; the information provided did not comply with current applicable NZ statute.

    A couple of days ago I had a meeting with the General Manager of NPDC (the fourth this year!). I pointed out the error and suggested the manager go and get a copy of the Act while I waited. That he did. He agreed the information in the newly printed pack was incorrect.

    I reiterated what I had said just a few weeks previously, that there is a copy-and-paste culture and nobody bothers to check what is copied and pasted.

    but the real point is this; the council officers and manager get paid the same, no matter how badly they perform.

    It’s they same throughout most of society. Most organisation stagger from one crisis to the next. And they can do so because of the huge margin that energy slaves provide.

    It is very clear to who is informed and with a brain that functions properly (1% of the populace?) that present arrangements are progressing rather rapidly towards collapsing, with next-to-no thought given to any kind of ‘Plan B’.

    We have known for decades that reducing dependence on fossil fuels and reducing dependence on corporations (power-down and permaculture) were the way ‘forward’. And those strategies are exactly what money-lenders and corporations, and all their bought-and-paid-for lackeys do not want.

  • Well, well. James Hansen says we’re screwed, because the 2 solutions he offers – carbon capture and safe nuclear power – don’t exist.

    http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/23/jim-hansen-presses-the-climate-case-for-nuclear-energy/?_r=1

    It’s useful to show that you can have a lifestyle which produce less carbon, but it doesn’t solve the problem. Because if that’s all that happens, even if you convince a thousand people or a million people or a billion people to reduce their emissions what it does is reduce the demand for the fuel, lowers its price and somebody else will burn it.

    Here’s what he says about renewable energy:

    I think it’s unfortunate that so many environmentalists are just assuming that these renewable energies will be able to satisfy all of our requirements. Renewables are only providing between 1 and 2 percent — the soft renewables. Hydropower provides a significant amount of electricity but that’s limited. The hope that the wind and the sun and geothermal can provide all of our energy is a nice idea but I find it unlikely that that’s possible.

    The environmental community is basically asking governments to try to reduce their emissions and asking them to subsidize clean energies. Well, that simply doesn’t work because we don’t get enough energy from the renewables to make a difference. And that then forces any government to approve expanded oil drilling, hydro-fracking to get more gas, mountaintop removal to get coal. We’re not going to turn the lights out. No government, no president or governor is going to turn out the lights. There has to be energy. If renewables aren’t providing it, it’s been fossil fuels.

  • Tvt dreamers can dream. maybe those sheeple who have had near death experiences and claim to have experienced something like nirvana during their aborted passage away from this dream/nightmare… maybe they’re not delusional. we can only hope. [and} take off your human blinders, kc, and imagine an existence in which each moment is brand new, unique. time doesn’t exist except for that moment. imagine bliss that never ages or lessens. imagine being without limits. imagine something better than oblivion!

    Hmmm that reminds me of something. Oh yeah
    Hebrews 11:1
    King James Version (KJV)
    11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

    Going St. Paulish on us TVT?

    Hope is in my opinion one of the human blinders that has gotten us into this fix. Hoping for heaven or nirvana has let many ignore what we are doing to the planet. Hoping that we can trash our planet and not face the consequences is killing our species.

    I do have imagination tho about possible after lives. I imagine us paying for our sins. We in the first world who have used our unfair share of the world’s resources could be sentenced to live several lifetimes of one or two dollar a day life that half the people on the planet now live – however many lifetimes it takes to come up to our standard. Say we live on $30 a day – then 15 lifetimes at two dollars a day. Obviously some people would have more lifetimes in poverty than others. Or we could be sentenced to lives of those we exploit – a life of a Chilean copper miner, another of a Brazilian cane cutter (12 tons of cane to be chopped a day).

    But back to imagination, the endless drug tripping type nirvana you describe does not appeal to me. Maybe it would be endlessly good and wonderful, but since I don’t do drugs I have no basis for judging that. I do do sleep. Nothingness appeals to me.

  • Kath Cassandra…”But back to imagination, the endless drug tripping type nirvana you describe does not appeal to me. Maybe it would be endlessly good and wonderful, but since I don’t do drugs I have no basis for judging that. I do do sleep. Nothingness appeals to me.”

    An acquaintance of mine, a professional man of considerable intelligence, completely agrees with the case for NTE but is content in his self delusions as he patiently awaits rapture – for it is written.

  • To avoid moderation, i’ll cite the sources

    from Climate Progress:

    In Hot Water: Ocean Heat Content Continues To Soar

    Some 90% of total global warming goes into heating the oceans. NOAA has several charts showing that the oceans are rapidly heating, just as climate scientists predicted. [a recent one displayed]

    from The Extinction Protocol:

    A new study has found that heat waves are increasing in the western portions of the Pacific Northwest, but not the kind most people envision, with scorching hot days of temperatures reaching triple digits. These heat waves occur at night. Researchers documented 15 examples of “nighttime heat waves” from 1901 through 2009 and 10 of those have occurred since 1990. Five of them took place during a four-year period from 2006-09. And since the study was accepted for publication in the Journal of Applied Meteorology and Climatology, another nighttime heat wave took place at the end of this June, the authors point out. “Most people are familiar with daytime heat waves, when the temperatures get into the 100s and stay there for a few days,” said Kathie Dello, deputy director of the Oregon Climate Service at Oregon State University and a co-author on the study. “A nighttime heat wave relates to how high the minimum temperature remains overnight. “Daytime events are usually influenced by down slope warming over the Cascade Mountains, while nighttime heat waves seem to be triggered by humidity,” said Dello, who is in OSU’s College of Earth, Ocean, and Atmospheric Sciences. “Elevated low-level moisture at night tends to trap the heat in.” In their study, Dello and co-authors Karin Bumbaco and Nicholas Bond from the University of Washington defined heat waves as three consecutive days of temperatures at the warmest 1 percentile over the past century. Using that standard criterion, they documented 13 examples of daytime heat waves during the time period from 1901 to 2009. Only two of those occurred in the last 20 years.

    In contrast, nighttime heat waves have been clustered over the past two decades, with what appears to be accelerating frequency. A warming climate suggests the problem may worsen, studies suggest. “If you look at nighttime temperatures in Oregon and compared them to say the Midwest, people there would laugh at the concept of a Pacific Northwest heat wave,” Dello said. “However, people in the Midwest are acclimated to the heat while in the Northwest, they are not. People in other regions of the country may also be more likely to have air conditioning in their homes. On occasion, daytime and nighttime heat waves coincide, Dello said, as happened in 2009 when temperatures in the Pacific Northwest set all-time records in Washington (including 103 degrees at SeaTac), and temperatures in Oregon surpassed 105 degrees in Portland, Eugene, Corvallis and Medford. It was the second most-intense daytime heat wave in the last century, but lasted only three days by the 1 percentile definition. However, that same stretch of hot weather in 2009 results in a nighttime heat wave that extended eight days, by far the longest stretch since records were kept beginning in 1901. The latest nighttime heat wave began in late June of this year, and continued into early July, Dello said. “Like many nighttime heat waves, a large high-pressure ridge settled in over the Northwest, while at the same time, some monsoonal moisture was coming up from the Southwest,” she pointed out. “The high swept around and grabbed enough moisture to elevate the humidity and trap the warm air at night.” –Space Daily

    and finally, from Climate State:

    A Looming Climate Shift: Will Ocean Heat Come Back to Haunt us?

    [after a whole lot of technical reading, charts and graphs]

    So to answer the question posed in the title – will ocean heat come back to come to haunt us? Yes, but perhaps not in the way some might think. Heat buried in the deep layers of the ocean will not re-surface any time soon. Instead, when the subtropical ocean gyres spin down, they will no longer be efficiently removing heat from the tropical surface ocean. The transport of ocean heat to depths, and to the poles, will drastically slow down, and this will allow the surface of the tropical oceans to warm rapidly. That heat is very likely to haunt us.

  • and for number two today, try to listen to this hour long video when you have time – it’s extremely informative and effects us all:

    Monsanto’s Roundup Herbicide

    (in the food system and causing all kinds of diseases including autism, dementia, gut problems, etc)

  • Enlightenment would only occur inside people. The world would be completely transformed, based on the ability to see it as a miracle, but it would (or might) still look the same.

    “Nobody is changing anybody.” B9K9

    Well there’s the rub.

    Actually every creature (myself excepted) is already “enlightened”: it’s just the Divine Playwright acting out so many Divine Roles from slugs to saints in this Divine Play?

    All to help change me with the guidance that I need to reach the same Divine “enlightenment”?

    The general level of ignorance, incompetence and complacency which characterises most organisations, especially if they have any kind of monopoly, is utterly staggering.

    The system has to maintain the energy flows to stave off the inevitable population dieback from the coming constriction of those flows.

    next-to-no thought given to any kind of ‘Plan B’.

    Wasn’t it someone who said that there is actually no Planet B?

    No government, no president or governor is going to turn out the lights. There has to be energy.

    Otherwise the human livestock will keel over and croak.

    Obviously some people would have more lifetimes in poverty than others.

    For the “enlightened” person, ALL lifetimes, past, present and future, from slug to saint, are the person’s own lifetimes. Uncountable “illions”.

  • well, it looks like we are starting to see splinter groups forming at NBL. Interesting to see people forming groups based on their own view of the circumstances and their, um, mystical views or whatever.

    U – nobody hates you because you destroy their hope, they hate you because you are a long-winded know-it-all that is obviously suffering from deep insecurity and severe lonliness – a man desperate to have his voice heard. Nobody is interested, except your little following of moronic sycophants.

    “And solitaire’s the only game in town…” – The Carpenters

    I’m sure most of us have seen XrayMike’s posting on Monday, July 22, at collapseofindustrialcivilization dot com.

    A vision of our future:

    Those countries heavily reliant on imports for their sustenance quickly devolved into anarchy and killing fields. Politicians were the first to be done away with, drawn and quartered with their heads placed on spikes. The thin veneer of civilization dissolved under the brutal reality of power outages, food riots, and climate chaos. Some countries with nuclear plants suffered Fukushima-like meltdowns due to the loss of their power grid while others, who were able to keep a lid on the disaster by maintaining electrical power under a state of martial law, carried out accelerated decommissioning of their reactors.

    Today, I will go down to the river (polluted, no fish) and sit for a while.

  • Eleven or twelve people were arrested after locking down to some Enbridge equipment here in Michigan, protesting the 6B pipeline.

    Michigan Coalition Against Tar Sands may get a new member.

    Will it stop Enbridge? No. Will it stop the destruction? No.

    Will it do anything to slow down or stop NTE? No.

    It’s kinda boring to just wait and watch here on the Beach of Doom. Not that I don’t love all the comments and perspectives here….I do. But, hey, if we can cost them a little bit of profit on the way to total annihilation, that could be fun!

    Just this one little action has them all freaked about “security” and how they will need “constant surveillance” on the route. Cooooool.

  • Gail

    I have a comment about renewable energy.

    Since it is individuals and households, (not to overlook “industry”) who use the electricity, (forgetting heating oil) and for a lot of non essential activities, why are very few people indicating a combination of abandoning economic growth and reducing non-essential electricity consumption ?

    Yes a very unrealistic proposition to coordinate, but it is the only path that is do-able, is it not?

    As ulvfugl I think recently iterated, the warming we see today id from 30 years of back-play, no turning it back or down any time soon.

    I see no ordinary path to avert the great culling of much life, but then again, when I played pool with tough competition, I never gave the game away till the black ball was sunk, and the white was stationary.

    As Guy points to, it is probably just too late to hope a swiftly economic industrial collapse will avert the warming in the pipe.

    In any case it would be prudent to conclude that resilient and resourceful communities will fare better in the short term, but beyond that not much can be assumed or predicted.

    The coin is in the air now, for some time too …..

    2014 is the time for it to slam the Earth so no one can look away to a distraction device or other screen and forget….

    Not wishing it, just calling it.

  • Ah, slowly but surely, it appears many are beginning to come around and fully confront reality (as so beautifully explained by DL). Pity it happens to most people over the age of 40.

    Now, consider that most space monkeys here are products of an upper middle class environment, and were specifically trained to become productive cogs in the academic, professional and managerial classes.

    Oh what a journey it is to discard decades of indoctrination, brainwashing, expectations of societal conformity and other manifestations of physical & emotional control.

    Now, consider a situation where you were born into a family of ancient lineage whose forefathers centuries ago grokked the essential nature of human futility? Would they have not bothered to participate in any productive endeavor, but rather, would have immediately targeted key control points? And in so doing, amass vast fortunes in which to garner even more control.

    If you were born into such a family, would you be exposed to such inane, ridiculous public concepts as nationalism, patriotism, civic duty, etc, etc? Or, would you be educated exclusively in an environment (routed through exclusive private schools and legacy universities) that focused on training in the “true” ways of the world & to prepare you for when it came time to assume your rightful duties?

    Imagine someone who thinks like me @ the age of 22. Who could stop them, especially if a key strategic component was a media system that ensured each “sherson” was fully engaged in whatever inanity du jour was deemed effective?

    That’s why they don’t care if a small minority of post 40-somethings finally wake up and figure it out. It’s too late. Chatter on cattle, but don’t upset the apple cart. So, I say, shadow trace them and profit. But, don’t take so much as to alert them – you know how the Mafia protects their turf.

  • logspirit said : Uh, would you like some fries with that?

    Reminds me of a cartoon I made a while back.

    2 frames

    The first one has a guy opening the door to a fast food joint. The golden arches above are flaming and instead of, McDonalds/billions and billions served, the sigh reads McExtinctions/billions and billions fried.

    The second frame has the guy inside ordering off the big board and he is saying:

    “I’ll have the chicken McFuck-its,the climate fries and an I don’t give a shake”.

  • OK, I appreciate the pushback. I guess, as with most things, one can start derailing when pushing too hard. Pushing too hard was what I was, ironically, arguing against, but the sticky substance of wishful thinking can attach to you unless you have people shouting at you to stay clear. This is a group enterprise, and I am one flawed entity within it that needs constant correcting.

    I’m for being clear eyed. For instance, trying to figure out what gives with Brazil, India and China where TPTB are concerned would be a worthy exercise. Trying to see whether a Jeremy Grantham is insane when he acknowledges the enormous danger of climate change while also being a scion of capitalism, likewise. The assessor from my county waxing enthusiastic about how many angles my house has been photographed from can be dismissed as an innocent (if dangerous) fool.

    I’ve always assumed that if I could figure out something, the average person could do so too. Maybe not. But maybe the average Jane knows more than she lets on or feels safe to disclose. Getting off the treadmill to ask questions could be bad.

    I just don’t want to assume that people couldn’t “get it,” especially when faced with truthful information. Despite always being aware, aesthetically, of the deteriorating environmental and sociocultural conditions, I’ve learned much more from blogging over the last few years. I’ve learned tons just in a couple months on NBL. If I can learn, others might too.

    Fatalistic thinking strikes me as being the opposite side of the coin to wishful thinking. The mean between them is perhaps best.

  • @wildwoman, Small chance that anything will stop them. I’ve mentioned here previously that KeystoneXL is slated to go through ‘Mr.’Badlands family farm in S. Central SD. We have on our counter papers waiting to be signed allowing “The Company” temporary workspace in addition to the property easement for pipeline construction. Over the last two days, TransCanada did their ariel scouting of the route through SD, the anti-pipeline group in Nebraska just got shut down by their county commissioners so are now planning training in zoning, emergency response, and spill-cleanup. They’ve already been granted the permit by SD Public Utilities Commission, and at the end of the school year, the Hot Springs School District south of us held a mock lockdown drill, on pretense of receiving a threatening letter from Keystone XL opponents, aka eco-terrorists.
    Things are not looking up, unless you are one of the ‘fat takers’.

  • Fragments of reality (almost) slowly leaking out…

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/jul/24/arctic-thawing-permafrost-climate-change

    ..as if the financial cost was going to mean anything in the wake of a methane bomb.

    And then …
    Nafeez Ahmed interviews Peter Wadhams about the results of the same Nature article.
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/jul/24/arctic-ice-free-methane-economy-catastrophe?INTCMP=SRCH

    And Wadhams admits, “We are already in a 2C world in terms of the heating potential of carbon dioxide that we have already put into the atmosphere. The heating will reach 2C before 2050 and will then go on to 3-4C globally by the end of the century.” … which is left decontextualized.

    Still..a slow leak.

  • Not sure how derailing a train that transports nuclear waste is a victory.

    I know we are supposed to be respectful and all that – but, really, some posters here are beginning to sound either like they should be out walking on water or in a tent at the Renaissance Fair reading tarot cards.

    Equally irritating are the “we shall overcome” group.

    Seriously, we are just counting days. Tic-Toc.

    The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement (VHEMT)
    The One Commandment:“Thou shalt not procreate”

    the Church of Euthanasia
    save the planet, kill yourself

    Jesse’s Church of Euthanasia
    save the planet, kill yourself, and take some poor slob with you.

  • OTOH Gail the article says “The derailment took place in the morning on a stretch of track used exclusively by nuclear giant Areva to transport nuclear waste.

    The Areva train shot off the rails more than 200 ft. Neither of the two rail-workers aboard were injured.”

    My first thought is that if they caused a nuclear spill by that action would it still be an action to cheer. Or if they cause the workers to be injured or killed would it still be an action to cheer.

    However I hope most people who would take up resistance would try to do it in a way that didn’t cause more pollution or hurt people. Which makes me wonder if this was staged by the company to tar the image of resistors and give an excuse for crackdown.

    The Weather Underground Movement was destroyed when they blew up a building in Wisconsin and unbeknownst to them there were people in the building, one killed and 4 injured http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1198045/posts

    Provocateurs are often used by the government to get groups to do actions that harm property or persons exactly for the intent of discrediting a group.

    Of course Brian Willson did his protest of the trains carrying ammuniton and stayed on the track – the train did not stop and he lost his legs. Of course he did not stop the war. Neither did he stop campaigning for peace but the movement behind him was not destroyed – because he laid his life on the line,not the lives of others. My just reminded me that when he was hit, the people who were with him watching from the sidelines ran ahead and got on the tracks themselves, and the train did subsequently stop. My husband met him several years later and he was still going to demonstrations. More on the whole affair at wiki (yes the name has two l’s in it)

    Any rate just a caution – those who want resistance be careful what you do, you may get sympathy for the assholes if you hurt someone and will have that on your conscience. Those who are in resistance, be careful about those who join. They may be plants.

  • The resistance movement is full of FBI agents baiting the members into illegal acts so they can arrest them.

  • In the previous thread, ogardener asked me where the beef was in my “2LoT hypothesis”.

    For new readers, my hypothesis claims that thermodynamic principles regarding entropy production (offshoots of the Second Law of Thermodynamics) have led inevitably to the looming extinction catastrophe we face today. The hypothesis includes the proposition that human values like greed, morality and wisdom have played no role in the overall unfolding of the calamity, though they have shaped its details. And finally, that human intelligence is probably be powerless to stop it – or even delay the denouement by much.

    If anyone is interested in some of the research that has guided my thinking, here is a small set of links. It’s a deep rabbit hole…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-equilibrium_thermodynamics
    http://www.swarmagents.cn/thesis/doc/jake_206.pdf
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2871898/
    http://www.entropylaw.com/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructal_law
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_power_principle
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_materialism_(anthropology) – especially the operation of “probabilistic infrastructural determinism”.
    https://www.amazon.com/books/dp/B007MXBNGS (“Too Smart for Our Own Good” by Dilworth)
    http://www.amazon.ca/books/dp/0226739376 (“Into the Cool” by Scheider and Sagan)

    Note that Swenson’s work is not classically scientific, but his 1988 intuition regarding the role of entropy production is proving to be right on the money.

    This is also the reason why I think that the idea that resistance has any general (as opposed to personal) value is utterly bonehaded.

  • Artleads, I agree with Mo flow, and your post was lovely. I may not believe there is much, if anything, we can do, but I love your heart.

    And thank you, for your understanding. I am trying to make a point here about culture and thinking, and the limitations of Western thinking, which is very difficult to do with Western smart people who are deeply invested in their own way, like my friend the Harvard grad lawyer. Everyone has to say everything exactly the way Western people want to hear it, within their cultural framework, or the other person is less intelligent and is quickly demolished on every level. Ha! What a joke. The Western way of learning eliminates the ability to discern reality/truth through thinking.

    Take my friend the lawyer for example, who asked, how did you guys keep warm in the winter (pre-Columbian)?

    Let’s think about it. They wore animal skins in the popular image. Everyone knows that. Usually deerskin, which was much more comfortable for footwear than European leather, it is a premium leather. We don’t have to know much history to know that one of the earliest exports from the new world was ‘beaver hats,’ from the rich trapping opportunities in the “new world.” It was one of the first economic boons for Westerners, the trapping. And we know the natives had funny names like, running bear and gray wolf.

    They also had fur decorating their clothes, along with beads and quills.

    How did they keep warm in the winter? How did they keep warm in the winter? Let me think. They probably didn’t, right? Because they needed us to take over and save them.

    You don’t think that maybe they just left the fur on the skins and they used a different outfit in the winter time? (Hint: that’s how it happened.) They slept under furs. They wrapped themselves in large animal skins, like buffalo or bear or wolf and they sewed together otter and fine animal fur blankets.

    The words for such skins were usually translated as “robes” and not “coats,” but the idea was the same. But if I didn’t explain it all, from start to end in exactly the way this guy needed to hear it, my Harvard-yalie friend could not understand me.

    I gave him truth. I did the translating for him.

    He wanted facts and labels.

  • This short video says a great deal in keeping with the things I am trying to say, especially about how those people saw their environment. Note the comment on the “lavender” horse. Note the information they captured, compared to the information we look for.

    Sitting Bull was considered a prophet among his people. Each year he directed them to their winter and summer village sites, which they moved between seasons. Sitting Bull would have been a biologist had he been born in our culture. He spent years and years observing the plants and the animals. It was his passion. By watching them, by watching the animals’ behaviors and the way their coat came in or shed, and by observing the plants’ responses to the conditions, he would predict weather patterns months in advance very, very accurately. More accurately than weather forecasters can now with out technology, even if we hadn’t screwed everything up.

    Then, mediocre and inferior intellects with brutish materialistic limitations but with guns and rulers and books, slaughtered beautiful, brilliant, cultured, subtle, wise, brave, gifted, incredible people like Sitting Bull, and Joseph, and Pontiac (yeah, Pontiac didn’t start out a car). They may not have been “noble savages” as a whole anymore than we are, but you better believe they had their Gandhis, Schweitzers, Hellen Kellers, Marie Curies, Einsteins. And they had equivalents in the arts as well.

    Philosophically? I cannot even begin. But we cannot understand them. Why?

    Our minds work like dead butterflies under glass. We cannot form reality within our language constructs without dividing things and removing them from their context through measures and labels.

    They were focused on the Life that kept moving and changing in front of them. Life is changes, not static measures. They liked their living world – sane people prefer a living world over a dead one.

    And furthermore they believed it was “sacred,” something else that sets the Western hair on fire. OH NO!@!@!!!

    Well, given how we do religion, no doubt you feel that way. But once again, that is our limitation.

  • @Paul Chefurka

    Good luck with non-equilibrium thermodynamics. Don’t get me wrong Paul I enjoy your contributions here and other places.

    Is it safe to say that the majority of participants on this blog would like to see the NPI (nuclear power installations) cease and desist and to see their toxic waste byproducts safely stored forever? If that is the case then why don’t you do something about it? Maybe write your Senator and ask him/her what he/she is doing about it? They must be aware of the problems at Fukushima by now. I’m sure you’ll get a line or two of bovine scatology suitable for framing in a response. There was an article in Dissident Voice a while ago about an eighty something year old nun and two aging Vietnam veterans who broke into a nuclear arms manufacturing facility and got all the way to the front door before being noticed. How difficult can it be? At first they were charged with trespassing now they are being charged with sabotage. Big difference. The first response by the corporation was to install additional security. LOL. There goes the fuckin’ bottom line.

    Harvesting garlic and potatoes presently. Have a shitload of both (for my needs and friends/community members).

    Bluebirds are busy with their young now. They actually fly the feces out of the nest in their mouths and it’s like watching a bombing run when they drop them. Maybe I can train them to drop them on my garden. Exceptional year for butternut squash and some cultivars of cucumbers – pickling and ‘Orient Express’ cucumbers. The cucumbers were planted later in the season in order to catch the striped cucumber beetle near the end of its life cycle instead of at its peak. That strategy seems to be working. Plants are looking really healthy. Tomatoes are doing fine as well as yellow onions. Heirloom ‘Roma’ tomato appears to have exceptional disease and insect resistance. I planted green and yellow string beans amongst the butternut squash this year. I call it the two sister approach. Amazing. Applied a predominately fungal batch of Actively Aerated Compost Tea to pepper, tomato and onion plants this am as a soil boost and flowering promoter. The microclimate in which I live is truly special. No worries. As I have said before if it all goes to hell tomorrow it won’t matter.

    In the meantime perhaps some of you will find this helpful.
    http://www.ghorganics.com/page2.html

    Busy. Have to get my arse in gear. Later alligators.

  • That is, Sitting Bull predicted weather patterns beyond anything people can do now *with* technology.

  • @ tvt: Oh dear, I’m afraid there’s been a terrible misunderstanding here. You see, even though I identify myself after the old cynic in Animal Farm, I am, in fact, actually a person. Sorry about the mix-up; hopefully you have not already taken any kind of action based on the activity you describe. 😀 And thanks. BTW, I still remember hearing Doctor Robert when it first came out.

    @ Ripley: 😉
    ==

    Why We Are Fucked

    Living’s a fatal pursuit
    For creatures, however astute;
    Though we were the master
    At getting there faster,
    As a rule, species overshoot.

    When agriculture arose,
    Storing wealth was one of its pros;
    But some gained more status
    In the social lattice,
    Buying what pleasure they chose.

    From there we went on to construct
    A deal which for most people sucked;
    But clout calms the jitters
    In neurotransmitters,
    And that is the reason we’re fucked.

  • Are we looking at yet another feedback…

    The stable ice on Antarctic- the coastal permafrost- is melting faster than expected, a new study reported. Researchers said that the melting rate of the coastal Antarctic permafrost is now similar to the melt rate of permafrost at Arctic.

    http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/3135/20130724/stable-antarctic-permafrost-melting-faster-expected-researchers.htm

  • I said it’s a cold universe and I don’t mean that metaphorically. If you go out into space, it’s cold. It’s really cold and we don’t know what’s up there. We happen to be in this little pocket where there’s a sun.

  • ODE TO A DUSTY DONKEY

    There once was a donkey named Benjamin
    Who could charm rhyme out of a stingy man.
    He said, “Oh my, how we suck,
    Now we are fucked.
    And we won’t be around to begin again!”

  • Resistance:

    “In a general way, I think what has to be done is not to try and convince or persuade the majority of people that we are right, as much as try to increase tensions in society to the point where things start to break down. To create a situation where people get uncomfortable enough that they’re going to rebel. So the question is how do you increase those tensions?”

    One might argue that TPTB and the MSM are doing just that! Raise taxes, inflame racial tensions, increase income disparity – seems like a pretty good prescription…

  • Kirk:

    that was awful… keep trying (off-line).

  • It’s cool that you are crying… That is the beginning… But reach down and get in touch with your anger and outrage… That is the energy that will propel your actions, then balance that with a deeply maintained connection with whatever faith you may or may not have and Act! That is the recipe for hope for this world and all of its inhabitants.. There is no more time for us to lament the atrocities that have been heaped upon the earth and it’s inhabitants… There is no more time to waste. There is only time for action, and those actions must be based on the knowledge that it may be a little too late, but it must be done. Ask your god what to do, and if you have no God, ask someone who does…. The only battle I’ve ever won for the earth and for the people was won bythe people coming together, praying, and ! WARD VALLEY look it up!

  • Personally, I fail to see the point.

    Even as a caveman with rudimentary tools and limited language, what was the meaning of life? Eat, sleep, procreate, die – no different than today.

    As intelligence grows, social order begins and abstractions begin (love, hate, greed, envy), and here we go with all the baloney about Zen this and Zen that and the gods of Abraham, etc, etc, etc. All bulls&$t.

    Eat, sleep, procreate, die – that’s the meaning of life. There is no higher purpose.

    Each one of us faces death the moment we are born – NTE changes nothing.

    So what if you die a slow miserable death as the flesh drips off your bones from radiation poisoning? It’s not much worse than being mauled by a saber toothed tiger and left to die a slow miserable death from vultures picking at your body on the bank of some prehistoric river.

    Your joyous songs and tragic screams will soon be silent, and time will render them forgotten as if never heard.

  • BadlandsAK – Thanks for your comments, and good luck with your tomato plants! I’m sorry you’re in the middle of the XL pipeline; it’s terrible to be in a direct position of getting run over by corporate/government power.

    Bob S. – Glad you liked my essay, and I hope you found Kanehsatake worth watching. Regarding your second comment on resistance – there’s definitely a choice to be made between aboveground and underground resistance. If aboveground, and if your organization is successful, you will indeed be targeted by TPTB, which means you need to have support networks in place and plan for disruptions. If belowground, and if you follow security culture guidelines, you have a much lower chance of being caught, but the repercussions are much higher if you do get caught. Done properly and with enough luck, belowground resistance doesn’t have to involve “hiding out” – that’s only necessary if you’ve given TPTB reason to suspect you in the first place. I really appreciate DGR’s clear presentation of the need for a firewall between aboveground and belowground, and of the importance of simple security culture to keep us effective while decreasing risk. (Of course that risk can never be eliminated.)

    oldgrowthforest – thanks for writing about your experience with your great-grandmother and your perspective on the people this culture has tried so hard to destroy and marginalize in all ways. You share really important “information”, and more importantly, an entirely different perspective. I really appreciate it.

    Jesse Schultz – Thanks for the work you’re doing, and for articulating the value of resistance and gradual reduction vs letting things run full speed to a hard crash. There’s so much to be done on so many fronts with so many groups that everyone can find themselves a niche. The important thing is to do what you can while you can, and to continually evaluate what you’re doing for maximum leverage and effectiveness.

    Kathy – Thanks for the movie suggestions; I’ve added them to my “to see” list. Along the same lines of moral ambiguity in resistance, I’ve recently watched _The Weather Underground_ and _The Wind That Shakes the Barley_. (BTW, your later comment linking Weather Underground’s demise to their Sterling Hall bombing is inaccurate, from what I can find – WU had nothing to do with it, and WU continued in various forms for several years.)

    Daniel – I understand feeling disillusioned by a long string of radical groups failing to prevent catastrophe. The main reason I joined DGR is because they have a cohesive analysis of what has and has not worked in the past and what to do differently. DGR’s “Decisive Ecological Warfare” strategy begins from your observation that “Virtually no one cares about anything beyond their immediate self interests, period!” This mandates a strategy effectively using a small pool of people, akin to guerilla warfare – leveraging advantages, making cautious attacks, and carefully selecting strategic targets – primarily energy infrastructure.

    Gail and Kirk – Keep in mind that DGR is an aboveground organization and can’t carry out underground attacks. DGR works towards more widespread acceptance of the need for such attacks, fights oppression directly through aboveground means, and builds alternative systems to take over as collapse proceeds. That said, DGR News Service has a calendar of underground actions reported in the press. There’s some inspiring work going on, though obviously we need much more: http://dgrnewsservice.org/underground-action-calendar/

    Tom – Thanks for articulating how it’s the little things that often hit us hardest, presenting us with immediately understandable and experiential reminders of the more abstract big picture destruction. I also have my most visceral reactions when I see specific dead trees or roadkill, rather than when contemplating clearcuts thousands of miles away.

    Santha – DGR recently put out a Radical Feminism FAQ addressing the “anti-trans” accusations. In short: DGR firmly opposes abuse of trans people and does not exclude them from the organization. DGR does support allowing women to define safe spaces for themselves. Depending on the particular group of women, that safe space may or may not include people born as males (regardless of their current self-identified gender.) Supporting women and fighting patriarchy is a crucial part of resistance to civilization and capitalism.

    Artleads – Thanks for the story of the hummingbird and the forest fire. That neatly describes our situation now. It’d be awesome if some of the elephants, giraffes, and rhinos joined in, but regardless of their participation, we’ll keep doing the best we can!

  • @ Ripley

    “Daniel’s efforts to become the blog’s Torquemada enforcing proper nte commiseration is every bit as funny as BTD’s best poetry.”

    That’s actually rather clever Ripley. Though completely fallacious given the context in which most of my criticism of others is leveled,I do appreciate a well crafted one-liner.

  • @Artleads re: Thoughts Toward a Cultural Style Appropriate for NTE Resistance:

    Thanks for sharing your brainstorming sessions, never a bad thing to bounce ideas off of people. I’m not against resistance, but I think it has to be focused, and I think it has to be so outside of what is traditionally expected, i.e.. protesting, monkey wrenching, strikes, etc…to have noticeable effect. I think OzMan is correct that Indigenous elders will lead something powerful, as they know the land in a way that we do not. The imposed poverty that natives live in here in SD is appalling, they are watching, waiting, they see all that is going on, they mock, laugh, they have eagle eyes that spot hypocrisy in western society instantly. I don’t know what line will be crossed that will ignite the anger and injustice that has built up, but my best guess is it is going to be water rights.

    So what does radical, untraditional, unexpected resistance look like? I don’t have a list of ideas like you, but I look around at the world we are leaving to the children, and I know they must be involved, so it must be non-violent.
    You say, teach kids how to make windmills, I say, if you have the means and stability to do so, start adopting kids, lots of kids. Kathy C’s stance on getting your tubes tied and not bringing any more babies into the world is the most radical proposed here so far, because it is an act of resistance against your very nature. But take it a step further. There are so many unwanted and abused children already out there. We could’ve been a completely different species if only we didn’t hurt the children.
    Get the kids out of the foster-care system, teach them the truth, teach them gardening, hunting, fishing, anything. Look out there and see the Quiverfull people procreating an army for god, homeschooling, homesteading, not allowing their children to be indoctrinated or dominated by the mainstream culture, but indoctrinating and dominating them at home.
    I think it is too late to undo what we have done to the climate, but a lot of suffering can be eased in the meantime, no need to wait for the zombies before offering your last moldy crust of bread, or whatever people plan on doing to show their compassion and humanness. Anyway, just throwing something, anything out there.

  • How rewarding to finally see NBL participants speaking to Drumright’s essay’s initial purpose… not information but commiseration. Anyone who believes that there’s nothing to be done has never been in a position to try to alleviate the suffering of a terrified child. A hungry child. We’ve got a very big important job ahead of us.

    And maybe we should also pray…….. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW7JPAcHal4