Human Population Dynamics and Demographic Transition

by Steven Earl Salmony, Ph.D., AWAREness Campaign on The Human Population

Many too many scientists with appropriate expertise as well as demographers and economists everywhere in our time apparently have been rendered apoplectic by presentations of new and evidently unforeseen scientific research of human population dynamics and the demographic transition. These experts have relied upon preternatural thought and phony science to make a seemingly incontrovertible case for the viability of the human species and its current business-as-usual overproduction, overconsumption and overpopulation activities — global overgrowth activities of a distinctly human kind that can be seen overspreading the surface of Earth and that will soon be more generally acknowledged as patently unsustainable on the finite and frangible planet we inhabit.

Absolute global human population numbers have been skyrocketing since World War II. When I was born, 2.3 billion people were alive. In a single lifetime of threescore and ten years (1945-2015) human numbers are fully expected to grow to 7.2+/- billion human beings, an increase of 5+/- billion people.This population growth has been widely believed to be sustainable, at least in large part, because of two critical misperceptions that have been widely shared, consensually validated and allowed to stand unquestioned. Ruinously, predominant ideology has been deliberately confused with and presented as science. Recent unacknowledged scientific research indicates with remarkable simplicity and clarity that human population dynamics is essentially similar to the population dynamics of other species and that the traditional demographic transition model indicating population stabilization and an end to population growth soon is pseudoscientific, fatally flawed and utterly misleading. Fundamental mistakes have been made but experts have consciously refused to perform their duties to science and humanity by making necessary corrections.

Self-proclaimed population experts certainly are not stupid, and yet they appear to act as if they are ‘playing stupid’. Perhaps they been unfortunately influenced by TPTB just the way politicians have. In their foolhardiness, arrogance and avarice and by their lust for privilege, power and the concentrated wealth from which power and privilege are derived, TPTB have claimed ownership of the mass media. Global communications have become governed by what is economically beneficial, politically convenient, socially suitable, religiously tolerable and culturally contrived. The family of humanity has been duplicitously misguided and deceitfully duped by overly-educated, absurdly enriched sycophants of rich and powerful greedmongers who have been undermining and perverting science. The shared ideology of TPTB and their many minions leads to their imperious denial of scientific research that not only presents inconvenient truth but also exposes the ruse underpinning a non-negotiable, but unsustainable way of organizing human civilization on our watch. One of many pernicious effects of this situation is the willful denial of the best available scientific research of subjects like human population dynamics and the demographic transition. Resulting misunderstandings have been decisive in paving the way for a civilization nearing its collapse. Civilizations have crashed before, but never has the demise of a civilization put at risk future human well being and the Earth as a fit place for human habitation. If this perspective is somehow on the right track, then we could be witnesses to a colossal failure of nerve as well as to a determinative loss of capacity to do the right things, according to ‘the lights’ and scientific knowledge each of us possesses.

Limited space leads me to take an unconventional step at this point. Rather than lay out for you what is novel research regarding human population dynamics and the demographic transition, I am going to refer all of you to a website where you will find the presentations: A Summary of Human Population Dynamics and A Presentation of the Demographic Transition. Credit for this research belongs to Russell Hopfenberg, Ph.D. Perhaps now here the kind of sorely-needed open discussion that has been avoided by the professional societies of science and universally denied by demographers and economists can be fostered.

Please click on the following link: On that web page please find the two new presentations to which I referred just above. For those interested in a deeper understanding of related research in population science, note that other presentations and peer-reviewed articles can be found at the website.

Comments 129

  • @Librarian
    B9K9, your words are the reason WHY the game is constructed as it is…Your words are a self-fulfilling prophecy. By claiming that anyone who complains must be wrong, you actively ENSURE that complaints will never be heard or taken seriously…

    1) I think you are blaming the messenger for the predicament.

    2) I think you are confusing prophecy and analysis.
    The weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth that will drown out all of our voices here on our metaphorical Beach of Doom as eventually millions more people per month realize that Nature is about to swat our horsehide-covered butts out of the park is not fairly attributed to B9K9, or to Rob@thelibrary, or to Guy McPherson.
    You can conceivably lay that responsibility on TPTB, or Joe Bageant’s “Dum Amuricans”, or whatever genetic commonality exists amongst the 7.2 billion humans alive today plus many of their/our predecessors, or The Second Law of Thermodynamics, or some combination of these, but not at the feet of one or a scant number of Cassandras who have, at least on some level and to some extent, refused to be seduced by the dominant paradigm, which is standing in for Apollo.

    3) What he wrote is “He who complains has already lost.”
    What I make of that is “He who complains is already lost.”
    Lost humans will pay well for directions, comfort, and company.

    If you think your life so far has exposed you to political turbulence or that you have seen masses of people influenced by charismatic preachers and sociopathic politicians, just wait…and keep that seat belt fastened securely, unless you’re heading for the exit door.

    The Doomsday meme that has been growing in the blogosphere is already spreading into the broadcast & print media. The disruptions that we are likely to see due to the existential strain of millions of folks peering into the Abyss should make the events of Fatima in 1917 look like a well-ordered after-church coffee & donuts soiree.
    The Vatican and others will offer explanations and recommendations.
    And they will “scoop up some additional coin.”
    Lotsa coin.
    Bank on it.

  • All of us, each and every one of us, when added together along with all of our science, awareness, common sense and capacity for action, all of us are still, now, here, not more than faint voices in the wilderness on our watch. We mistake ‘preaching to the choir’ for giving voice to something that realistically matters, that actually makes a difference. Preaching to the choir matters not because, while there may be one million of us communicating among ourselves, there are many too many other people, now numbering 7 billion, who have not a clue about what we are talking about. What we say matters not, at least not yet. For the moment, surely, the power to command and control communication through the mass media is so pervasive and complete that TPTB can simply ignore us. And they do. Perhaps we could be described as “The Nowhere People”. TPTB can then be seen as, “The Now Here People”. Until we become “The Now Here People”, how can we expect to be heard?

  • What is awareness other than what sentient beings perceive?

    Consciousness is like sunlight: one sees the objects illuminated by sunlight, not the light itself. Perception is a phenomenon resulting from the illusion that consciousness is the content. With discernment between consciousness and content, although there persists awareness – content illuminated by consciousness – concomitant with the discernment is the realisation that the consciousness remains unaffected by time, space and causation – and that it is independent of all content.

    our awareness is the world’s awareness,

    The awareness that is consciousness with content (other than “itself”) is an awareness limited by its content. The content is finite. And additionally the content is limited by time-space-causation. As is the world. Consciousness is not affected by its content and is not limited by time-space-causation. It could be said to pervade the entire world, although it it is not defined by the dimensions that define the world. It does not belong to anything, not even to the entire world.

    Please understand that the suggestions for behavior change presented now will be followed by other ideas for behavior change later.

    To convince anyone about behaviour change, first and foremost population arithmetic needs to be tackled. If the arguments presented therein it cannot be refuted, then the rest is not even male bovine faecal material: it is male bovine flatus.

    More important is the behaviour of the feedback loops. Albedo, methane clathrates, permafrost, dying boreal forests and forest fires, desiccating rain forests, etcetera, etcetera. What are the ways to change their behaviour? Otherwise the only behaviour will be to keel over and croak – big time.

    In order to sidestep the emerging threats to life as we know it and Earth’s ecology, and to avoid NTE, perhaps the human family could choose to do four things simultaneously:

    Ain’t no room left on Earth to sidestep. And there ain’t an Earth II anywhere in proximity. Moreover they are not tackled by sidestepping them. Just postponed.

    considering that the world food supply that currently exists could meet the primary needs of all those who alive today;

    Plenty of all the essential nutrients (proteins, fats, carbohydrates, vitamins and minerals) in the wild biota. Just not the right items in the right combinations at the right places at the right times. Redistribution of the available food involves logistics, economics and politics. Even with absolute global dictatorial powers, it would take someone with one’s head not screwed on properly to think that an adequately effective distribution is possible. If someone could figure out how to always get all the right things to the right places at the right times, that person would be the wealthiest person in the world, even if the right things were edibles.

    beginning carefully and skillfully to regulate INCREASES ONLY in the historically unchecked growth of the human food supply

    Regulation requires enforcement. Enforcement requires guns and hierarchy – even against peaceful non-compliers.

    Free, immediate and universal access to safe contraception.

    Someone will have to pay for it. That payment will have to be extracted from someone, even to the point of coercive violence.

    Humanity needs a new economic system, one that is subordinated to democratic principles

    Democracy, as everyone knows, is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner.

    Has Guy discussed why he considers the mud hut project to be a mistake? If so, where?

    Somewhere back in the blog. Probably also in some of the talks. The “why” is because the course of events now anticipated will make North America uninhabitable by Homo calidus in less than a decade, with the most extreme changes occurring in the desert Southwest.

  • Steven Earl Salmony Says:

    “How did this collective, willful denial of what could be real occur on our watch?”

    What watch? This is the only thing 99.99% of Americans watch:

    According to the A.C. Nielsen Co., the average American watches more than 4 hours of TV each day (or 28 hours/week, or 2 months of nonstop TV-watching per year). In a 65-year life, that person will have spent 9 years glued to the tube.

    Number of 30-second TV commercials seen in a year by an average child: 20,000

    Number of TV commercials seen by the average person by age 65: 2 million

    Americans are little more than lab rats in an insane experiment of mass commercialism. This is the totality of our culture. We’re just doing what we are told, which is to continue our mindless consumption of crap that we don’t even need and that ends up in the landfill after six months. There are the people watching over this experiment they created, and making damn sure no one interferes with it. It will continue as long as capitalism continues. Even if NTE was not on our doorstep, your list of behavior changes are impossible under capitalism, because they are a list of anti-capitalist behaviors. Under capitalism nothing is allowed to interfere with the continual and endless accumulation of capital. This means infinite growth that ends only after all resources are consumed or all ecosystems are destroyed.

  • @ S E Salmony

    …and to avoid NTE…

    Erm, maybe a few decades late ? How does your list address Guy’s list of irreversible feedback loops ?

    @ Robin Datta

    What is awareness other than what sentient beings perceive?

    Consciousness is like sunlight: one sees the objects illuminated by sunlight, not the light itself. Perception is a phenomenon resulting from the illusion that consciousness is the content. With discernment between consciousness and content, although there persists awareness – content illuminated by consciousness – concomitant with the discernment is the realisation that the consciousness remains unaffected by time, space and causation – and that it is independent of all content.

    Hahahaha, here we go again..

    I thought this was declared a secular zone…

    Consciousness is not ‘like’ anything. That’s the problem, nobody has been able to define consciousness, not the scientists, or the philosophers, or the mystics, and your waffle is obscurantist obfuscation pretending to sound wise.

    According to physics and biology, contrary to what you say, we don’t see the objects illuminated by sunlight, we DO see the light itself, the photons hit the light receptors in the eye, are converted to electrical impulses, which are processed in the brain.

    You are telling a mythical story derived from the Vedas because you want to peddle your religion in this secular zone, Robin.

    @ logspirit

    Well argued. Also Erin makes good points. As I understand it, when you put food in your mouth, to a considerable extent anyway, you’re not actually feeding yourself, you’re feeding the microbia in your gut, and as I recall three quite distinct ecologies of gut micro organisms have been found on the planet.

    Also, there’s there’s the percentage of people who cannot digest alcohol, and those who can digest dairy products, which gave pastoralists an evolutionary advantage, and as Erin mentioned, populations who existed for millennia on walrus, seal, fish, and some berries and never any vegetables, and so on.

    Seems to me it’s highly unlikely that there is any one diet that suits everyone, and highly likely that modern commercial processed foods, full of synthetic crap, bisphenol and fructose, all kinds of additives and pollutants, chemistry that has never been part of any human diet, is bad for everyone.

  • Sam Carana, Arctic News,

    All who might dismiss this title as “exaggeration” and the opening photo as “alarmism” owe it to their children and grandchildren and the future of humanity to read on. Large scale thawing and release of previously frozen methane gas has wiped out great swaths of life before and is quite capable of doing so again. Mass extinction – especially self-imposed – is not a “pretty” concept. Warming from carbon emissions is now unleashing Arctic deposits of this super greenhouse gas – an awesome and truly frightening force – and threatens to initiate a chain reaction that could well be unstoppable once started. This commentary does not wallow in “doomsday” rhetoric. But humanity is teetering much closer to oblivion than what has been “getting through” in the shallow coverage offered by mass media, and there is a moral imperative to issue a warning. The voices of scientists pressing on this front deserve to be amplified. Their observations and concerns are presented to the reader, who is invited to evaluate whether any “alarm” is justified. Humanity is standing on the very edge of a cliff, and if we fall off it will be a one way ticket to Hell.

  • A. G. Gelbert Says:
    August 29th, 2013 at 6:28 pm
    “If the overriding cause and effect mechanism for population growth in Homo sapiens is caloric intake, why is it that the areas of the globe with the least caloric intake per capita have the highest birth rates?”

    Exactly! In fact many who want to reduce population believe that the best way to do that is to raise standards of living and education, especially among children. This works (unfortunately there are not enough resources on the planet to do that for all the humans on the planet)

    On other sites it is proclaimed that having the most children is evolutionary fitness. Often quoted is Ghengis Kahn who raped his genes into Europe. But in current times we see the Clintons with one child, GWB with 2, Obama with 2 etc while in the poorest countries the average number of children is much higher. The poor are clearly the most fit for reproducing for they do it under circumstances that we would find difficult to just stay alive, much less reproduce.

    There is a point where caloric intake can cut of menstruation but clearly for the majority of the poor in the world, that point is not $2 a day or even $1 a day.

    @badlands – no shame. You have too heavy a load caring for them in the days ahead. Don’t let anyone add shame to your burden. I try to get people who are now aware to get tubes tied, but if they don’t and have to face collapse with young children then they just have to do their best for them. I know you are doing your best and I feel for you and your kids. Shame should be reserved for TPTB.

    Since population control cannot be effected before climate change does us in, action on climate change is the only action worth considering. Guy suggested bringing down industrial civ. The people at methane emergency group want geoengineering to stop arctic sea ice loss. When your house is burning with the kids in it, do you save the kid and then worry about the house or save the house and hope the kids survive. Not the best analogy but just the one that came to me. Steven ignores that fact that a 1 child policy in China did NOT STOP population growth, only slowed it. He ignores that a no child policy would be way to slow to get down to reasonable numbers for the planet to support unless the death rate increases. If someone thinks humans can be saved from extinction do something about climate change – Guys crash industrial civ or promoting the idea of geoengineering. I am not in favor of the latter but it makes more sense than addressing population at this point in history. But it is fact the mindset of people like Steven, focusing relentlessly on their little idea to the exclusion of all other information, that is part of what got us in this mess.

  • Dear Kathy Cassandra,

    Have you examined the presentation yet? Then, perhaps, someone here can help you help me see where I am to find an audience.

    I place value in scientific knowledge and have a problem with those who find science to be trivial and truth to be useless.



  • Rob@public library said:
    “…innocent biosphere”

    Pardon me, but that’s like a red rag to a responsibility-denying (but not agency-denying) beast of burden… :) Humour me if I relapse into using ‘we’ as shorthand for ‘you know who’…

    IMO Homo Calidus needs to ‘get over itself’. If this biosphere is about to feature acidic, radioactive part-plastic oceans, extreme weather, an extinction event, barren desert landscapes, etc., could it be because that is exactly what the biosphere intended to happen? We are just the (disposable) schmucks that make it happen, and we are granted awareness of this at the point in time when the process becomes impossible to reverse. Before that, we were allowed to live in the delusion of progress towards our various fantasy futures. Indeed, it was necessary for the delusion to be maintained in order to ‘keep up morale’ amongst us schmucks that made it (the real future) happen.

    Being part of the web of life, everything we have done is likely to have been just what life intends us to have done, fossil-fuel exploitation, splitting atoms, and all the rest, including our unsustainably growing population. We were always ‘maladapted’.. perhaps deliberately, so that we’d dig up all this toxic stuff out of the earth just to keep ourselves warm and dry. On our species little journey as a vain, conceited, unwitting tool, the vain, conceited biosphere even got the side-benefit of having us fawn over it in admiration, us saying: “How wonderful you are! How unique and unparalleled in the known universe!” We used to say the same thing about ourselves, too. We were so sapient.. Now it’s just embarrassing.

    The vindictive and vengeful among us can take pleasure in knowing that the ‘PTB’ puppet-masters- if such there be- will find that they were the biggest dupes of all. Hopefully nothing is forever. Luckily for us, not even Orwell’s ‘boot stamping on a human face’. As for nature, do the flora/fauna want to go on eating eachother into eternity? How many generations have to be bred for all to get the general idea?

    That’s one way of looking at it, anyway…

    …Meanwhile, ‘on topic’ but almost certainly ‘off message’, putting the ‘rap’ into ‘demographics’- A thirty-six years old commentary on the politics of breeding control, in limerick form! If nothing else, a wicked hand-crafted groove to start the U.S doomer day… :)

  • Where are the leaders and experts who are willing to acknowledge and openly support solid scientific evidence. Look at the dismaying disarray in which we find ourselves now and how far we have to travel in a short time to move the human community away from precipitating some unimaginable sort of global ecological wreckage.

    What would the world we inhabit look like if scientists like Galileo had chosen to adopt a code of silence in the face of human-dictated pressures? In such circumstances, Galileo as well as scientists today would speak only about scientific evidence which was deemed by the super-rich and powerful to be politically convenient, religiously tolerable, economically expedient, socially correct and culturally prescribed. Galileo and modern-day scientists would effectively breach their duty to science and humanity to seek and report knowledge as they find it, as best they can. If science does not overcome silence soon, then everything the human community believes we are preserving and protecting could be ruined. What if there is no audience for science?

  • Perhaps what is required now is the occurrence of some sort of transformational global event that would not hurt anyone but would help everyone awaken, in the sense of raising the collective consciousness of humanity, to a level of awareness adequate for perceiving and understanding the global predicament looming before all of us. That new level of collective consciousness will enjoin able and humane responses within new kinds of leaders and followers alike to the global predicament. The human species possesses gifts of surpassing intelligence, evolving self-consciousness, compassion and innovative capabilities that will see us through what does appear to many experts as a dangerous period in human history. The ideas that there is nothing to do because nothing can be done and that trying to do something which is somehow correct is not worth the effort, seems somehow not quite right.

  • Thought this would be a good time to point out that cows, Holstein or otherwise, are essentially meat eaters. They may chew and swallow forages and grains but the micro flora convert this into essential amino acids, bacteria, meat in other words. That adds up to 35 lbs of beef steak per day per cow. Pigs and humans can’t do that. Maybe that’s why cows, as well as the sun, have been objects of worship. Hope this isn’t getting to religious.

  • With thanks to both authors, I’ve posted a new guest essay. It’s by Ben Croser, it’s here.

  • Holy Cow, dairymandave!

    @Steven Earl Salmony Thanks for elaborating on your proposed solutions. They are so reasonable, it’s a shame they weren’t implemented 30-40 years ago when they might’ve made a real difference. I bet most people are like me, and cannot even fathom what seven billion people looks like, and what that means for all of us. One thing about having kids, it reminds one that we are not born knowing how to share, take turns, or compromise, those skills must be taught, and it seems a quantum leap is necessary to translate them to the global level.

  • Couldn’t we separate ‘what to do now’ from ‘accepting NTE’? Nobody here seems about to inhale helium today, tomorrow of even two years from now. But talking about NTE, why it is certain, or why it should be accepted is surely not everything.

    For instance, just saying on NBL that younger women should tie off their tubes, while very helpful, would exponentially gain adherents if abortion rights are not allowed to be rescinded, and even enhanced, in the next few years. During that same period, it could become dangerous to exist while being black, or gay, or immigrant, or liberal.

    Can the specter of NTE foment a force for maintaining and enhancing human rights as a way to deal with end times? Or is letting brutality and intolerance have its way preferable since nothing matters anymore? Is NBL a place for engaging with the realities of the world today, or is it a place to forget about them?

  • 18000days Says: “We were allowed to live in the delusion of progress towards our various fantasy futures.”

    Very good – humanity in its entirety being awarded blue ribbons just for participating. This ultimate self-esteem & ego boosting mechanism can be encapsulated as “way to go, super star!” LOL

    Pretty damn devious, especially with the additional bonus of awareness thrown in @ the end. But why the torture? I mean, what did we do to ‘deserve’ this? If no one has any choice about being born, then why are they first born, then bred (to carry Gaia’s long-term agenda), then finally revealed the truth? Shit, maybe there is a doG, but if so, then (s)he’s a vicious sadist.

    @DMD “Micro flora convert this into essential amino acids, bacteria, meat in other words.”

    Interesting point – how many veggies & vegans happily munching away on their flora of choice are really eating millions of micro fauna per mouthful? Damn, the older you get, the more you realize what a genius Geisel really was. “Horton eats a (zillion) Who?”

  • Dear S.E.S.: Thanks for answering and for sharing your thoughts and feelings with us. What BadlandsAK said. I wanted to thank you yesterday, but was obeying the 2 post/day rule. I think it’s safe to say that at one time or another each of us has been just as anxiously as you wondering why “the leaders” wouldn’t listen to the science. Re this: “scientists today would speak only about scientific evidence which was deemed by the super-rich and powerful to be politically convenient, religiously tolerable, economically expedient, socially correct and culturally prescribed.”
    If you’re not aware of Kevin Anderson’s work, he explains that this is exactly what mainstream climate scientists have been doing. In particular, the IPCC is fudging to please TPTB. You can google him. I would offer you one word of advice re: your presentation of the science on population. I think you need to answer the questions posed by the science that demonstrates the fertility rate declines in wealthy populations. and, FYI, I concur with your program, and would be waving a banner for it, if i thought we conceivably had another 100 years to implement it. We don’t, IMO.
    Best wishes to you and your family. I applaud you for trying, in your own way, to save life on earth from human error.

  • 2. The time for the economic and social empowerment of women is now.

    Well, the time for economic and social empowerment of women was before Adam and Eve stepped out of the garden. If we had been equal from the start, maybe none of this would have happened.

  • Dear BadlandsAK,

    I have not seen or heard the name Kevin Anderson before now. It will be a pleasure to examine his work. Thank you.

    Dear Kathy Cassandra,

    I am as frustrated as you are about the situation in which we find ourselves. Let us see how ‘the only game in town’ actually plays out. This is just a guess, but I believe all of us will be surprised from time to time by what occurs as every present moment unfolds before our eyes.

    Dear Paul Chefurka and Robin Datta,

    Thank you for commenting.

    Dear Guy McPherson,

    Thank you once again for this opportunity to share my views and experience, and yes, my hope for a future. Somehow we have got to do many things differently, do them much more ably, and do all of them simultaneously, collaboratively and fast. Ready or not, like it or not, we are presented with a planetary emergency, as you have helped reveal it to everyone. If ever there is to be time, this is the time for making necessary behavioral changes by thinking globally and acting locally. Science and common sense will give us direction. What we cannot do is sit on the sidelines. No, we cannot afford to sit this one out. All hands are needed on the deck at this critical moment in the history of our planetary home. Our generation is simply not stepping up to the challenges before us. The consequences of our failures appear colossal and profound with regard to the prospects for future human well being and environmental health. The very last thing a responsible person is to do in such circumstances is consciously and deliberately choose to remain silent, I believe. Are we not participants in and witnesses to the most preposterous failure of nerve? When are the leaders going to speak out in an intellectually honest way and act with a sense of moral courage? How terrible are things going to have to become on Earth before the-powers-that-be begin to talk about and do the right things, according to the lights and best available knowledge they possess? Whatsoever is real and true regarding the human species must be acknowledged if we are to respond ably to climate destabilization, pollution, biodiversity loss, resource dissipation, environmental degradation and overpopulation, but the fabricated ‘nothing is wrong’ reality is well-established and those who speak truth to power are consistently marginalized and ignored. It is difficult even to imagine how much can be done in such unfavorable circumstances. Still our efforts are vital because the-powers-that-be are living in a fool’s paradise, and the stakes are such that the things that are not being acknowledged will likely destroy life as we know it on Earth. We know how to stop overpopulation humanely. The gravity of this and other looming human-driven global threats are understood and could be confronted with a long overdue determination to do what is necessary. All of the world’s human resources, including overrated intelligence and technology, need to be deployed in order to overcome the emerging and converging wicked problems looming ominously on the horizon. The-powers-that-be could save the world if they acted with the intellectual honesty, moral courage and power they possess to sound alarm bells, forcefully warn the world, and call out loudly and clearly for changes toward sustainable lifestyles and right-sized corporate enterprises. But most of the necessary changes are unlikely to happen, The-powers-that-be want to maintain the status quo, come what may. They lack the moral courage and the imagination to save the world we are blessed to inhabit as a fit place for habitation by children everywhere and coming generations.

    Sincerely yours,

    Steve Salmony

  • @ ulvfugl

    Thanks for your praise and support. Re: Erin’s post… Following up on the only traceable reference…

    From Eugene Weekly, an article titled: Survive and Thrive – Corvallis garden experts latest book
    “Deppe believes (based on her own experience) a purely vegan diet is not for everyone.” Parenthetical in the original. eugeneweekly (dot) com/2011/01/13/gardening (dot) html

    From a perusal of the available reviews, it appears that Deppe has personally concluded that eggs are a healthy food so she includes them in her ‘vegetarian’ diet recommendations. Well, she can believe whatever she wants to believe. But that doesn’t make it true.

    I refer anyone who is interested in their health to the following, which fully dispels the notion that eggs are a healthy food. Also keep in mind that the egg industry spends millions to keep people in a state of suspended confusion, and their own profits pouring in. Many internal links to follow to get the full story. By a physician:


    Other ‘proof stories’ in Erin’s post above, that ‘sometimes’ people ‘need’ flesh are not backed with references that can be investigated. Hearsay isn’t science. Plenty of real science is available, and has been for many years. Unfortunately, for them, and for the rest of us who pay for the bloated medical patch-up industry when they get sick, the vast majority are ignorant of, or choose to ignore – the science. It is costing all of us, and the environment, profoundly.

    Finally, to reveal the fallacies of another oft repeated ‘source’: The Truth About the Weston Price Foundation

  • B9K9 Said:
    “But why the torture? I mean, what did we do to ‘deserve’ this? If no one has any choice about being born, then why are they first born, then bred (to carry Gaia’s long-term agenda), then finally revealed the truth? Shit, maybe there is a doG, but if so, then (s)he’s a vicious sadist”.

    I left the ‘G-force’, the ultimate puppet-master, out of things- I flatter myself I’m being diligent with Occam’s razor. For most human purposes, the biosphere is as much deity as is needed, although the biosphere might need us to be worshiping elsewhere- Mammon, Moloch, and others- for it’s own purposes.. . AFAIK, major meteorite impacts/seismic activity apart, just about everything that could impact on humans either has it’s source in, or is mediated by, the biosphere. Human cultural products such as organised religion, including notions of ‘God’, could be merely a biospheric strategy to inculcate human behaviour that serves it’s ends- e.g., Catholic contraception prohibition, the protestant work-ethic- if these didn’t exist, it might have been necessary to invent them.

    Our notions of morality, and all the rest- could just be part of the programming necessary to make us efficient instruments of Gaia’s agenda. If you wear out the tread on your tyres, getting from A to B, do you ask whether those tyres deserved such torture? Only the tyres themselves would think to ask, if they were self-aware.. Self-awareness being just one more faculty needed for us to be efficient instruments.

    It’s a weirdly seductive story, in that it answers a lot of otherwise vexing questions- it did for me, anyway. Obviously it involves casualties, which end up including just about every ‘higher’ quality or faculty mankind has assumed itself to possess. Indeed, if it were true, I might as well say that the biosphere is dictating this post, through the agency of 18000days, for reasons of it’s own…

  • Artleads Says:

    “Can the specter of NTE foment a force for maintaining and enhancing human rights as a way to deal with end times? Or is letting brutality and intolerance have its way preferable since nothing matters anymore? Is NBL a place for engaging with the realities of the world today, or is it a place to forget about them?”


    Perhaps, learning of NTE is different for everyone. If you accept it, and allow the implications to seep into your being, it creates great force, as you can clearly see in the changes many like Dr. Mcpherson are making. Casting off everything you have been conditioned to accept requires a lot of energy – as the forces that hold you in your conditioned state are considerable. For those with a ‘healthy’ conscious, the implications of NTE creates much energy.

    It is up to the individual how they use this energy – using this ‘force’ for ‘enhancing human rights’ contains the same problems as always – it’s hard to get two people to agree on whats for dinner :) So IMHO, if accepting NTE fills you with energy, use it to do what you do best – what you love – use it to face your own extinction – ask yourself what do you want to spend your time doing with the time that is left?

    NBL is about engaging with the realities of the world today. At least that’s how I see it. Yet, one of the realities of the world today is people hate people. So dreams of using the ‘forces’ of NBL to ‘change the world’ are not doable. However, using the forces to change the individual is doable.

    Then of course there’s the folks who come for the doom porn – they couldn’t give a shit about species extinction by God they have bunkers, food and bullets and what more could you need?

    BadlandsAK Says: “Well, the time for economic and social empowerment of women was before Adam and Eve stepped out of the garden. If we had been equal from the start, maybe none of this would have happened.”

    Yikes – even the creator was a chauvinistic pig! I’m more inclined to believe misguided civilized men created the inequality you endure. Then OFC, the ‘glam’ CIA plant Gloria Steinem used the notion that a few bad men meant all men are ‘oppressing’ women. This led to the acceleration of the destruction of family and reinforced extraordinary disharmony among the masses – which proceeded on schedule to help produce today’s generation of ‘selfies’. Now we are much easier to control.

    I write this because I have much respect for your person and your personal position – and I suffer from the common affliction of insisting my opinion be heard :) It is my first and only post on the subject. IMHO, it is far too pc, distracting, and divisive to argue it here at NBL.

  • Bob S,

    There’s a time for collective action, and I would the end of the world was such a time. Ah well…

    I think you’ve got it wrong where Badlands is concerned. She’s more than capable of taking up for herself (and for women), and so I’ll say no more.

    Best regards.

  • Artleads Says: “There’s a time for collective action, and I would the end of the world was such a time.”

    I couldn’t agree more – but the chazm between the dream of ‘collective action’ and it’s effective implementation is deep and wide.

    Just look at DGR – there is a disagreement over some detail – DGR pissed off some activists who never take no for an answer – and now DGR will be ripped to shreads – or at least rendered ineffective and divisive.

    It happens to budding activists all the time – they are compassionate and energetic about a cause and believe if the people only knew the truth they would rise up to address the problem – but that fantasy quickly fades as they discover everybody wants to know whats in it for them – or one faction wants to be boss – or the secretary absconds with the cash.

    Yes – we need collective action now more than ever – but TPTB cut us off a long time ago when they got us all to hate and blame each other.


  • If human population dynamics is essentially common to the propulation dynamics of other species and, consequently, if food supply is the independent not the dependent variable in the relationship between food and population, then a lot of what has been reported in this NBL thread could be distractions that serve to dismiss rather than disclose vital but unwelcome science of what could somehow be real regarding the human population and, more importantly, why our behavior is so utterly destructive of everything we claim to be protecting and preserving. May I make a request? Could we focus now, here, on whether or not human exceptionalism applies to its population dynamics alone or is the dynamics of all species, including human beings, similar? Whatever your response, please make reference to scientific research that supports your point of view.

    It seems to me that if we keep engaging in and hotly pursuing worldwide overproduction, overconsumption and overpopulation activities, distinctly human activities that cannot be sustained much longer on a planet with size, compostion and ecology of Earth, then the human species is a clear and present danger on our watch to future human well being, life as we know it, and environmental health. If we can see ourselves to be ‘the problem’, then it is incumbent upon us to bring forward the best available evidence from science, especially when that evidence happens to relate directly to why we are pursuing a soon to become, patently unsustainable (superhigh)way of life. A tip of the hat is due Rachel Carson for making me aware of the superhighway. Should humankind emerge from ‘the bottleneck’ E.O. Wilson imagines for us in the future and somehow escape the precipitation of our near-term extinction, how are those survivors to organize life sustainably and not repeat the mistakes we are making now… and have been making for a long time? Without knowledge of why we are doing what we are doing, every one of us is forever trapped in an eternal recurrence of unsustainable life cycles, I suppose.

    Sincerely yours,

    Steve Salmony

    PS: Rachel Carson’s quote,

    We stand now where two roads diverge. But unlike the roads in Robert Frost’s familiar poem, they are not equally fair. The road we have long been traveling is deceptively easy, a smooth superhighway on which we progress with great speed, but at its end lies disaster. The other fork of the road—the one “less traveled by”—offers our last, our only chance to reach a destination that assures the preservation of the earth.
    Rachel Carson (1907 – 1964)

  • Steve,
    Apologies in advance for my dated metaphor.. (and lack of science)..

    Rachel Carson’s “now” was in the early sixties.

    If the “superhighway” were Route 66, heading west from Chicago, chances are she was advising us taking the fork somewhere around St. Louis? Fifty years later, we’re at least in the environs of Flagstaff Arizona, possibly San Bernardino..

    That may be your point?- that somebody has been twiddling their thumbs for fifty years, or, maybe more accurately, somebody wasn’t doing enough thumb-twiddling, and it would’ve been better if they had done more…

  • Dear 18000days,

    Yes, definitely yes. A lot of knowledgeable people, many too many of ‘the brightest and best’ among us, have been twiddling their thumbs when it comes to acknowledging and beginning to address the global predicament that is looming before humanity now. A change of course is necessary, but rather than recommending another roadway, they clamor, “Full speed ahead!”

    All our lives we’ve dreamed about it
    Just to find that it was never real
    This sure ain’t no great Valhalla
    Coming closer each turn of the wheel
    Forlorn, adrift on seas of beige
    In this our Golden Age
    Even in our darkest hour
    Never thought that it could get so bad
    Bullied, suckered, pimped and patronised
    Every day your tawdry little lives
    So loose your head
    And step within
    The silence deafening
    Now you saw it coming
    And I saw it coming
    We all saw it coming
    But we still bought it
    You saw it coming
    And I saw it coming but still
    Running full steam ahead
    In and out of consciousness
    It breaks my heart to see you like this
    Crying, wringing hands and cursing fate
    Always so little far too late
    It’s 3am I’m wide awake
    There’s still one call to make, one call
    Now you saw it coming
    And I saw it coming
    We all saw it coming
    But we still bought it
    You saw it coming
    And I saw it coming
    We all saw it coming
    But we still bought it
    Running full steam ahead
    Running full steam ahead
    Running full steam
    Gonna cover my eyes, gonna cover my eyes
    Runnin’ full steam, yeah
    Now you saw it coming
    And I saw it coming
    We all saw it coming
    But we still bought it
    You saw it coming
    And I saw it coming
    We all saw it coming
    But we still bought it