Video Clips, an Essay, and an Interview

The two clips embedded below were shot by Pauline Schneider a month ago. They are part of a documentary film she is creating.

My latest essay for Transition Voice was posted today. “As the Empire declines it gets nastier” is linked here.

UPDATE: I was interviewed by Michael C. Ruppert on the Lifeboat Hour Sunday evening, 22 September at 6:00 p.m. Pacific time (9:00 p.m. Eastern). The result is embedded below.

Comments 232

  • ‘Noble Savages’: Chagnon’s new book triggers resignation and protests 26 February 2013

    Humans ARE violent, and ALWAYS have been.
    These responses to Chagnon’s work is all too predictable..
    The myth of the noble savage dies hard, because it
    is contrary to many a political argument.

    By the numbers, western culture has, of late,
    had LESS violence than their predecessors. We
    have oil-fuel resource abundance to thank for
    that. With energy declines and pollution increases,
    we will crash back into a darkness of violence,
    retribution, and sacrifice.

    When the abundance abates, men will cease to cooperate
    in their self-interest for the harvest, and return to fighting
    each other for the control of scarce resources,
    including those of reproductive opportunity.

    It’s how it’s always been.

  • Some great comments. Certainly don’t think matriarchy could be any WORSE than patriarchy, I’m more than willing to give it a go. I think it was Bertrand Russell’s son or grandson, in the House of Lords, gave a speech proposing such a thing years ago, all young women should be given a free house, no men should own property, etc. As some people do here, there were shrieks of protest and people claimed he was mentally ill and should be burned, etc.

    @ cuntagious

    Babies are aware and conscious long before they are born. You need to define the terms and the analysis more clearly, consciousness is not ‘stringing together the narrative’, is it, that’s something else.

    This is the same argument I have had with Kathy, there is a CORRELATION between consciousness and the brain. That’s not the same thing as causation. I mean, there are numerous youtube talks about this stuff with eminent philosophers and neuroscientists debating the many different points of view. There is NO proven final consensus on this matter, it remains an open question, and imo, all the evidence that accumulates indicates that consciousness is some weird distributed function and NOT confined to brains. That’s my personal view based upon my personal direct experience and evaluating the scientific papers.

    @ mo flow

    you may have elaborated on this elsewhere, but I wanted to ask you – how do you see your cluster headaches and migraines as part of the picture? i mean this in a couple of ways – do you think you would have been as driven into your connection with Taoism, meditation and everything else there if you didn’t suffer these things, and has your work with these systems (and of course everything else) helped alleviate your suffering with these issues specifically?

    Been a sort of lifelong zen koan for me, mo flow. For a while I thought it had completely ruined and wrecked my whole life, which was true. But then I came to see, it was the greatest blessing I could possibly have received, which was equally true.

    I don’t think it had or has much connection to zen or taoism or meditation, although there is some overlap. I suppose the buddhist thing re suffering might have been connected slightly. I used to attempt suicide in my teens and a couple of times in my twenties, and i used to try and help people who were suicidal.

    The earliest attack I can clearly remember is age 8, but I think it began earlier, and then the attacks became steadily more frequent, several times a year, increasing, as I got older until it became chronic, every day, without any breaks. Until about 15 years ago, I never got the correct diagnosis, but even if I had, there was no treatment, so it would have made no difference. It’s a rare thing, so most doctors never see a case in their career, so I was always told it was migraine, and the treatments never worked, so I’d be in indescribable pain for 24 or 36 hours curled up in bed, and so I learned how to leave my body, and became an expert at that technique, which I later learned was the same thing that the shamans had been doing for thousands of years.

    So you’ll understand why I am not inclined to take crap from materialists and sceptics who tell me this stuff is ‘impossible’, the Otherworld doesn’t exist, non-physical realities are ‘imaginary’, blahblah :-)

    Thing is, I completely accept the materialist position. It’s eminently practical and reasonable. Just as Flat Earth theory is reasonable. I don’t mean that in an insulting way at all. If you want to build a house, Flat Earth theory and Newtonian mechanics and Euclidean geometry are excellent. You don’t need to know about the curvature of the Earth, it’s not relevant.

    But if you’re digging for truth, then it only takes one case where Flat Earth theory is shown to be incorrect, and then it’s obsolete. Same for materialism.

    Where I’m at now isn’t connected much to the shamanic Otherworld thing, which one could also call the Unconscious if you wanted to switch to another model, but much more to what I was trying to say to michele, this soul thing, spirit thing, subtle body thing, that I am, which is precious, fragile, valuable, needs treating with care. For those who think they are meat robots who have never noticed that they have one, of course, it doesn’t matter. They just blunder from one level of consciousness to another without noticing anything.

    This is a completely practical matter, nothing intellectual or verbal or logical about it. It follows some rules but they appear to be inexplicable. I don’t accept for a moment that this is ‘supernatural’ whatever that silly word means, this is something like magnetism or electricity, when we were at the pre-Faraday stage of picking up pieces of paper with combs that held static charge. There must be a scientific explanation. But that’s their problem not mine, life is too short to wait for people to catch up.
    What can be done with this force or energy or whatever it should be called is absolutely astounding. So, I am on this fascinating solitary journey of exploration.

  • @Librarian (wildwoman & Bob S.)

    I suspect the PLAN will involve etiquette.
    Those not able to behave will face sanctions.
    Those insisting on atavism will meet opposition.
    Many hoping for the noun version of ‘founder’ will
    perish without ever learning about the verb ‘founder’.

    If post-collapse scholars exist, some may wonder whether Judith
    Martin’s influence on screenwriter Callie Khouri was too little,
    too much, or right in the middle of the Goldilocks zone…to wit:

    For Erin, wildwoman and Denise

    Grid goes down…lights out.
    Resiliant women are armed.
    Sheep become nervous.

    Oh, well…one last ‘shot in the dark’ for BTD

    Anonymous the long-distance trucker
    In his mind was a bad motherfucker
    ’til one day Thelma & Louise
    just as pretty as you please
    taught him more than lips sure could pucker

  • I don’t want to make too much of this, because it’ll just get boring for everybody once again, but as Einstein said re his theories, it only takes one experiment that’s watertight, which shows he’s wrong, and that’s it.

    The same goes for the materialist paradigm that mind, or consciousness, is just a brain function.

    I don’t know if this IS such sufficient evidence or not. It’s a bit like Friedrich Kling’s UFO stuff. I have an open mind and will consider anything that looks like proper empirical evidence, rather than merely anecdote. Anecdote is interesting of course, but science needs something that can be observed, recorded and measured.

    When one twin touched a hot iron and a blister formed, and identical blister in the same location formed on her sister’s hand, several miles away

    IF something like that can be authenticated and there can be no doubt about it, that is the end of the materialist paradigm. Forever. Because there has to be something else going on.

  • Librarian – I don’t know if I could come up with any possible plan better than infanttryone just outlined. whatever happens in any groups of survivors is going to be totally dependent on the composition of those groups, how separated they are from interference from other groups, and so on.

    if members of a group want to stop any Orlov or Kunstler type members who want to dominate, some choices: exile, death, castration, convincing them in some fashion that their will cannot dominate.

    cultural outcomes have always been diverse – and always with so many flaws, the Greeks had slavery, etc.

    *if* there are any outcomes that avoid total planetary devastation (The Road – completely awesome book, but wildwoman, even the boy found some kind of real refuge in the end. this book, if anything, shows how far Cormac McCarthy was willing to go to illustrate the power of a single human making choices. that was all that was left, and it was all that was needed to write a great story – everything else was gone) – anyways, if we have a situation that is not *quite* as bad as The Road, there will be groups making choices, creating diverse outcomes.

    somewhere in there could be a group making choices that respect women. there can’t be any “master” plan, of course, that will work.

  • Rob says “if the grid goes down we will have mass chaos on a scale nobody can even come close to imagining. And, when the nukes all go Fukushima, baby, the situation will be like something out a bad horror movie. Not only will you have crazy roaming bands of para-military freaks trying to “conquer” territory – but completely disorganized marauding hordes of lunatics laying waste to everything in their paths….”

    I suppose that’s possible. I figure it will be more like small groups of shattered people huddled together weeping and moaning their fate and wishing really really hard that someone somewhere had done something to stop this sorry fate. A lot more “On the Beach” and not so much “Road Warrior.” I suspect some will find religion is big way and others will become so despondent that suicide will be too much effort and they’ll curl up and die.

    Neither scenario is especially cheerful, but I’m not expecting the rules of civilization to fall away after it is clear that civilization is not coming back.

  • Hey U,

    I’m not a doubter wrt the kind of thing (twins exhibiting blisters at a distance) you mentioned, but rather than such a thing being the end of the materialist framework, I’d say it would be the beginning of yet another expansion of the materialist framework…such expansion would let the evidence stand and wait for someone to propose and test a hypothesis that would explain it…eventually resulting in a TV mini-series, T-shirts with long equations printed on them*, action figures of ground-breaking PhD’s available free with the purchase of a McDonald’s Happy Meal, etc.


    (My favorite seems to be discontinued…on the back was data & a graph showing the background radiation from the Big Bang…on the front was just “SCIENCE: It works, bitches !”)

    I don’t have a copy of it any longer, but in the September 1972 issue of Analog, Norman Spinrad wrote a biographical piece on Bucky Fuller titled The Synergetic Man based on extended conversations he had with Fuller. As I remember, the area of PSI phenomena came up and Bucky’s take on at least the subset of experiences involving telepathic communication was that it might involve frequencies high enough that we did not (at least back then) have proper instrumentation to monitor. Spinrad’s piece was included in General Semantics Bulletin Nos. 38, 39 & 40 (1971-1973) which you can download a PDF version of for 10 USD at

    Perhaps you consider Fuller to be outside the materialist paradigm, but he always struck me as a very down-to-earth guy who didn’t have a problem working within the ‘confines’ of hard, mainstream science.
    I suppose having Transcendentalists in your family tree makes it easy to keep an open mind.

  • @ Dean
    Actually, I can’t logically tie together what my life as a vegan has to do with someone else’s choice of pet?! Don’t make the mistake of confusing my compassion for another participant in this forum, or my dietary choices, with weakness! Or ‘fondness’.

    If I was a true carnivore, like a cat, then I couldn’t be a vegan. As a human being I am thriving on a vegan diet, and have been for more than 40 years. I’m also a martial arts instructor and founded a dojo. However, since I obviously see that you are merely trolling for trouble with your instigative remark… maybe even doing it on salary from some association of mercenary flesh dealers… Rather than asking a serious question… This comment will be all I’m going to say to you on this topic. This is all the attention you’re going to get from me, kid. Savor it.

    Do your own dam homework. If your mind is open enough to benefit from the knowledge. Otherwise, stay as lazy, stuffed and sick as you desire.

    Wow! You thought vegans were a bunch of easy, wimpy, effeminate targets, with ‘fondness’, huh? You’re blatantly sufficiently duped to believe in the capitalist mass media hogwash propaganda stereotype paid for by meat vendors and pharmaceutical corporations. You can’t box me, or bait me. Some advice: Don’t mess with vegans. We’re way too healthy for you, mentally and physically.


    Meanwhile… What the hell does ‘Interdasting’ mean? Its not listed in any English dictionary. Not only does this guy introduce himself with a direct and disrespectful attack, he can’t even spell.


    On a lighter topic, it looks like the Monsanto protection act has been derailed… if so, appropriate celebration is in order. I’ll have a fresh organic cherry pomegranate grape juice. Shaken, not stirred.

  • U – sorry, I somehow missed your reply to my question earlier, so I’m going to over-post to say thank you very much for your detailed answer. it is amazing what you are describing. to say what incredible strength you must have to have endured this – well, I am trying to think of some way of acknowledging your experience and what you have survived, but I find it impossible – it is just so huge, any attempt I am thinking of to acknowledge this just feels lame.

    “For a while I thought it had completely ruined and wrecked my whole life, which was true. But then I came to see, it was the greatest blessing I could possibly have received, which was equally true.”

    to know that you see this as a blessing – again, this is amazing.

    “So you’ll understand why I am not inclined to take crap from materialists and sceptics who tell me this stuff is ‘impossible’”

    yes, I can understand this.

    and this:

    “This is a completely practical matter, nothing intellectual or verbal or logical about it. It follows some rules but they appear to be inexplicable. I don’t accept for a moment that this is ‘supernatural’ whatever that silly word means, this is something like magnetism or electricity, when we were at the pre-Faraday stage of picking up pieces of paper with combs that held static charge. There must be a scientific explanation. But that’s their problem not mine, life is too short to wait for people to catch up.”

    I totally agree. it would have been possible, I think, if things had gone differently, to get a better scientific handle on this by now. but it didn’t work out that way. who knows if we have any time for science to catch up? and I agree, life is too short to wait.

    thanks again for sharing some of your story.

  • @ infanttyrone

    You appear to be conflating my usage of Materialism with the 2nd meaning here – Great T shirt though :-) Yeah, Fuller was awesome, Alfred Korzybski too, had a big influence on me.

    @ mo flow

    It went into moderation delay because of 3 links.

    For a while I thought it had completely ruined and wrecked my whole life, which was true.

    This judgement was made from a perspective based upon the values taught by the soceity and culture that I have been immersed in all my life.

    This is the one, for example, that teaches the sort of thing that Jack Weber mentioned in the previous post, that one can ‘overcome’ and ‘be a winner’.

    So, if you have chronic migraine, which is incurable, and listed by World Health Organisation in the top ten most disabling conditions, then, you are not going to ‘overcome’ and you are not going to ‘win’, because ‘it’ will ‘win’ every time. And you will lose. Every time. And feel like crap.

    And it’s not like some glamorous charismatic disability you can go on tv at the Paralympics and boast about how you managed to climb Mt Everest solo without oxygen, even though you’ve got no head and no legs, and get an award from some famous celebrity and a sponsorship that’ll earn you millions.

    You live in grinding poverty poorer than anyone else and nobody gives a shit.

    And the CH thing. You get a date with a beautiful woman, and it ruins it, and a job interview and it ruins it, and it ruins everything else, and you can’t even explain, because the stupid NAME ‘headache’ bears no resemblance to the actual condition which is something else entirely.

    So, yes, a hard road.

    But then, the wonder of this.

    In martial arts, you want a good teacher. You want THE BEST. Everybody wants the best teacher on the planet.

    I’ve HAD the BEST TEACHER ON THE PLANET, because MY adversary is the most terrible thing, more terrible than anybody who has not experienced it can possibly begin to imagine.

    You see, what would you do, if you lived with someone who grabbed you and threw you into the fire so you were badly burned ?

    Think of it. Would you plead and beg ? Appeal for help ? What would you do ?

    This opponent of mine just keeps throwing me into the fire. Over and over and over again. And there’s no way to argue or complain or seek mercy or wish for an end or anything.

    So this is the most magnificent koan it is possible to have, from the greatest teacher it is possible to have, and I am so, so, so grateful that I have been given this most tremendous blessing, that the Universe has bestowed this fabulous gift upon me…

    This is the perspective from different values system, not the trivial superficial shallow worthless nonsense that soceity teaches everyone, but something deep that permits no evasion or dishonesty.

    Life in the Bush of Ghosts

  • @logspirit

    See… you looked like a decent chap, and then you failed the prod test.

    You prod someone, see how they react and its almost always so disappointing.

    Perhaps you are not in control of your emotions, which means you may well have a false model of reality and cannot properly deal with information which challenges your worldview.

    You resulted to insults so clearly I touched a nerve. 40 years of depriving yourself of juicy steaks and bacon sarnies with brown sauce has maybe left you feeling a bit touchy on this subject.

    Your claims of vegan mental and physical superiority are subjective. Anyone with an intelligent mind would need objective evidence to see if your claim had any merit.

    You mentioned martials arts, well, how many at the last Olympics who won Gold in Boxing, Wrestling, etc were vegans?

    You founded a dojo. So what? You might be an awful teacher, who knows. If you had won an Olympic medal, well, then I might be impressed.

    You have said you are thriving on a vegan diet but again that is clearly subjective. Why don’t you list all your accomplishments in life and let others decide, rather than just blowing your own trumpet.

    As a vegan you simply might not have a “predator” instinct. You are not an “alpha” male. your defensive overreaction shows you are concerned about this. Perhaps you have an inferiority complex?

    Oh, ok, and finally, you don’t know what interdasting means. All you had to do was type interdasting into google and see for yourself what it was.

    Typically when I don’t understand something, I’ll do that. It’s easy to do. You can’t claim you weren’t interested, or interdasted, because you replied to the post saying it couldn’t be found in the dictionary.

    Your claims of being mentally superior don’t seem to stand up brother, are you happily living in a movie, where you are the infallible super hero who can’t figure out how to type a word into google to see what it means?

    If you had seen what it means you would have understood the playful nature of the post, as it was you showed yourself up as being superficial and crass.

    As I said, how typically disappointing.

  • @wildwoman and the others

    “I’ve tried to be patient and understanding and many of us have invested time and energy in trying to make you understand, but you just keep denying and hoping.

    Go away, please.”

    If you listen to Guy’s interview on this very page at the top you can see that he doesn’t support defeatism.

    Also, where is the mathematical proof of potential NTE?

    Why don’t you create a model with neural nets and plug some data in rather than sit in a corner rocking back and forth?

  • @ logspirit

    Donna Haraway on dogs and humans

    @ Dean

    As my friend Robin will no doubt be reminding you very soon, one who has expectations will inevitably receive disappointments. ;-)

  • mo flow, it’s entirely possible that I’ve misinterpreted The Road, but my take was that it was a beautifully wrought story of denial. The dad spends his last bit of energy walking his son through a destroyed earth. Yes, they meet up with some others that aren’t cannibals, but it’s all for nothing…how is the son going to continue to live on an earth where the water and land is dead?

    McCarthy was so brilliant in describing the utter uselessness of what the dad is attempting to do, sick with radiation. The son, whose body has taken in that same amount, won’t live long either.

    infanttyrone, thanks for the link! Haven’t seen the movie in awhile and I had forgotten how funny it was.

    Grant, yes.


    Women are on the front line of danger within the scenario of hideous rape and violence post-collapse. I stress the word “scenario,” for that is not the only possibility. But let us stay with it.

    Women and children on the front line, vulnerable men, etc. after that, and then even the alpha types will come to grief–all in progressive order. So if women are aware of this, and the most vulnerable in general apart from women, that would create quite a large body of folks with the perception of common threat. I just say this to point to the possibility (even likelihood) of there being a cohesive and powerful social force of resistance.

    And I wish to GOD somebody would even take a look at what two of the planet’s most outstanding women have to say on the broad subject: The interview (the main deal for me) moderated by Amy Goodman starts quarter way or halfway through.

  • wildwoman – McCarthy left a lot of things unstated. like the actual nature of The Disaster. my interpretation was that it was a massive asteroid or comet strike. the man was not dying of radiation, but constant inhalation of the poisonous dust in the atmosphere. i don’t believe I saw a single instance in the book of symptoms that were clearly radiation. in my interpretation, everything was different versions of fire (kicked up globally by an impact event and resultant falling back to earth of debris) and dust, and the global winter caused by the dust cloud.

    but even then, it is impossible to pin down. could have been nuclear war. brilliantly done.

    denial? well, I don’t see that. the man had an idea of his purpose, something he had to do regardless of the total (and he knew it was total) devastation – get the boy to the south, get them both to some possibly slightly less killing place than the north. teach the boy that following their own light, however dim, and even if that was all that was left, was the most important thing.

    it is left unstated that the man knew he was dying, and he was following instinct to get the boy to some safe new people, but i think that was part of it, too.

    whether the boy even lives another year or not, or a decade, or the dust eventually clears and allows even a weed to grow – it is all unstated, and it does not matter. that wasn’t the point, I think.

  • wildwoman – (spoiler alerts, for anyone who hasn’t read the book…)

    but yes, thinking about the total picture more, it is a story of denial and hope so completely crossed that they are the same. the man had the idea that the ocean would be some kind of refuge, and this drove him on as his major conscious goal. when he discovered it was cold and dead, he made the most of it, but he also went slightly berserk, and did some pretty awful vengeful things – for which he later paid some kind of almost instant karmic price by getting himself shot.

    so yes, a story of denial, hope, and choices.

  • @ logspirit

    Not being nasty, but way back up the thread you put a link to ‘Images of Newtown dead children’

    Did you notice that there ARE NO such images ?

    I don’t know if you actually investigated the story, or did you just accept what the MSM told you ?

    Whatever the real truth, there appears to be no conclusive evidence that any children died, that any such person as Adam Lanza ever existed, that there were 600 children at that school. The whole thing appears to have been a staged event.

    Of course, ‘believers’ will give an instant knee jerk reaction. But that’s not good enough. You have to sift through the details, and that takes time and hard work.

    Do you believe what the media told you about the death of Osama bin Laden ?

    If you don’t think that the American (and world) public are being deceived by elaborate media hoaxes designed to manipulate public opinion for political reasons, consider Seymour Hersh. He has a high reputation. He’s putting that on the line. He wouldn’t do that unless he was certain of his ground.

    …it’s one big lie, not one word of it is true,” he says of the dramatic US Navy Seals raid in 2011.

    Do you think that ANYTHING that the American public was told about Sandy Hook was true ?

  • In a world of make believe, there is this from Al Gore and Bill Clinton discussing climate change:

  • @ Artleads

    And I wish to GOD somebody would even take a look at what two of the planet’s most outstanding women have to say on the broad subject:

    Why do YOU think they say what they say ?

  • @ ulvfugl I tried to watch that link, but my connection is too slow for videos. As far as whether or not I believe what the news media claims… I read and listen to as much of a diversity of sources as I can, including many non profit ‘radical’ sources. Since none of us has the miraculous ability to personally attend each and every event reported, and since knowing that some are indeed manufactured to generate consent, as Noam Chompsky says… I take it all with a grain of sea salt and cayenne pepper. As far as the Newtown situation… I don’t think there are enough convincing American actors around to pull that one off. The grief of the mothers was palpable. The shock wave undeniable. The mothers and fathers of Newtown who lost their children continue to protest against guns. The only people I know of who would have any motivation at all to suggest ‘conspiracy’ and try to shove in a wedge of doubt are the miscreant gun makers and their customers of shrunken phallus & shrunken phallus envy. If you look closely through those pictures, there is at least one of the dead children. Sometimes truth is worse than fiction. One of the worst truths, is that some people think this violence is entertaining. I wonder what sort of bloody crap they’re eating, and believing. They are clearly card carrying patriots of the Death Culture.

  • @ logspirit

    Re your arguments re Sandy Hook.

    The only photo of dead children is one of children in Afghanistan !

    As far as I know, all the other photos have been investigated, and they are – well, what’s the appropriate word here ? because this is not a simple matter ‘fake’? ‘hoax’? ‘photoshopped’,? let’s just say ‘dubious’, or ‘suspect’.

    What do you mean the ‘grief of the mothers was palpable’? In those photos ? But they could be stills from a MOVIE, where the grief would be palpable if the actors were any good.

    How many mothers actually appeared on public record ? How many appeared laughing and happy and smiling when you’d expect them to have been in grief ?

    Never mind the motive and your imagination running away into ‘conspiracy’ and the gun makers, that’s something entirely separate. I was only talking about whether any children actually died, whether the event actually occurred as you appeared to have accepted it.

    It’s impossible to investigate all the crazy stories, even to investigate one in depth is hard, but I’ve spent a lot of time on that one. Imho, your judgement is way off there.

    Chomsky is a sort of boundary marker as to how far American dissent is permitted to go. He’s actually very conservative. By making him appear ‘radical’ makes it seem to the masses as if ‘normality’ is somehow ‘reasonable’ because it to the right of Chomsky.

    By readers’ request, this is a reposting of a translation of a Pakistani National TV interview with an eyewitness to the alleged SEAL Team Six attack that allegedly killed Osama bin Laden. I made the translation available two years ago in an article prior to the creation of this website.

  • @ mike k

    To say I thank you for yesterday’s 5 pm post in the most recent thread would be an understatement.

    I think we agree that the current world order shows no sign or ability to abate NTE, and that the next logical step is not to conclude with great certainty that NTE is therefore inevitable.
    We might also agree that one of the most advantageous way to face the future derives from the unwillingness, as is exemplified by NBL, to obscure the seriousness of our global catastrophe. One step at a time, huh?

    @ ulvfugi

    I think they said what they said because they believe it. I also hold that the International Women’s Conference on Climate Change is a great step toward maintaining and enhancing the rights of women regardless of collapse. Beyond that, global solidarity among women (and male feminists) on the issue of climate change/collapse is precisely what the world could use just now.

  • @ Artleads

    Ok, let me rephrase, because that was not what I was asking you.

    I was asking what YOU asked.

    Why do YOU think there is the difference between how Goodall and Shiva view the future and how people here, see it – say, Guy, me, other examples, as I realise there’s no consensus view here.

    You were asking US to explain to YOU.

    I’m asking, How do YOU explain it ?

  • U,

    I’ll repeat what I wrote to Mke K:

    “I think we agree that the current world order shows no sign or ability to abate NTE, and that the next logical step is not to conclude with great certainty that NTE is therefore inevitable.
    We might also agree that one of the most advantageous way to face the future derives from the unwillingness, as is exemplified by NBL, to obscure the seriousness of our global catastrophe. One step at a time, huh?”

    My take on the discrepancy (cognitive dissonance) between Goodall/Sheeva and “NBL” (and BTW, there is considerable diversity of memes–healthy, I think–in the totality of Guy’s and even your pronouncements) is that there is a useful opposition of opinions concerning NTE (and even individuals might contradict themselves). If you listen carefully to what Jane Goodall says or doesn’t say, you get the impression that she sees what Guy sees in the numbers, but comes away with a different conclusion from what are posited as being Guy’s conclusion–one of irrevocable planetary doom. I happen to be on Goodall’s side of the discussion.

    But she does not, like Guy, have a blog dedicated to discussion and the dissemination of VARYING views about collapse. She’s an activist. I don’t wish to be an activist (as I have been in the past), and so Guy’s discussion forum has attracted me up to this point. They both offer something positive and valuable, I think. And I suspect Goodall if not Guy, would agree with my quote on top.

  • @ Artleads

    Okay, I’ll try to explain it to you, as I see it.

    It seems to me, you (and others here) just don’t listen to what Guys says in his talks. Maybe if you go back and listen to the lectures ?

    Look, there’s a long, long learning curve, going right back many decades, as people have realised what was happening to the environment.

    Start, say, with Rachel Carson, and the realisation that the
    ‘wonderful discovery of chemicals to kill pests’ was actually having terrible ecological effects.

    So a tiny minority of activists were concerned and tried to do something. They were ahead of the game. That’s how it’s been ever since. New horrors, new people seeing the dangers, new movements to try and fight them.

    Always hope that somehow, this battle could be won, someday.

    But then, last yearish, the realisation that the battle is lost.


    THAT is what YOU have NOT understood. That’s what this blog is about.


    Shiva and Goodall and all the rest, Ran Prieur, Archdruid, hundreds of others, simply don’t get it because they DO NOT UNDERSTAND.

    Eventually they will, but it’s not surprising that they don’t because half the people HERE don’t understand.

    Look at this link.

    Ignore the rest, just the 2nd illustration, methane, CO2 and temperature over the last half million years. There’s no doubts about this, it’s all solidly established measurement.

    While everyone can WISH to conserve forests and make a nice fair soceity and get rights for women and blahblahblah, it’s all cuckooland, because that temperature line is going vertically upward, and it is driven by the CO2 and the methane, and there is no way to stop it.

    Even if, by magic, we could stop CO2 and methane and nitrous oxide emissions today, there is a forty year time lag

    Get it ? It still gets worse for forty years whatever we do because of what’s already in the pipeline.

    So that line keeps on going up. And up.

    And nobody is going to stop emissions today, because we don’t have any magic. Emissions are increasing faster than ever, and there are no plans to cut emissions.

    What we are told is all lies and propaganda and spin and bullshit and greenwashing.

    The only way to cut emissions is to stop consuming fossil fuels, and that means billions of people have to DIE, and nobody can take that decision.

    Get it ?

    So, we keep on consuming fossil fuels, which means emissions keep rising, so we guarantee that we get NTE, a mass exinction event.

    Get it ?

    Because, what that temperature line going up means, an unrecognisable planet, becoming increasingly uninhabitable for human beings, ever more frequent extreme weather events, collapse of global agriculture because of climate chaos, whole countries like Bangladesh will have no fertile land to grow their rice for hundreds of millions of people because the sea level rise will have salinated the farmland, so those people will have to move – to India, to China ? Oh yes, they’ll be very welcome, when those countries will be devastated by drought and no more monsoon, and the rivers have dried up because the glaciers have all melted.

    The oceans are being killed. We cannot reverse that.

    Get the picture ? The whole biosphere is collapsing and there is nothing we can do about it, and your naive wishful thinking doesn’t change that.

    Shiva and Goodall are five, ten years behind, when people still thought that there was a chance that there could be some action to stop the destruction and pollution in time. There was no action. They have not yet grasped what that meant. They don’t understand what irreversible positive feedback loops means. Only a few thousand people seem to get it.

    That’s one of the reasons why it’s too late, people just don’t learn fast enough. Even here.

    I wrote another essay for xray mike, if anyone is interested.

  • My heavens, Artleads, et al! I was able to grok NTE all by myself, years ago, without any help. My guts were ripped out over a generation ago, and all it took on my part was simple observation. Just noticing how everything good about Life was disappearing before my eyes, I saw death, a Big Bang of Death! Logic dictated that there was no stopping it, I knew people too well. Death has gained exponentially over life within the span of the last forty years. I barely recognize this place anymore!

    Maybe you’ve lead a sheltered existence, raised on video games. Maybe you’re still quite young or never acquired the rich baseline of experience others have of a world from not too long ago, teeming with critters and vitality. Well, denial won’t bring it back. The inertia of the runaway train is coming to the end of the line and we’re all on it. It’s time to toughen up, man. Call a spade a spade! It’s mean to sit and fumble the cards, leaden eyed, whining to deny and deny. LOL!

  • ulvfugl – another very fine piece over at coic. thank you. I like how you developed some of the recent themes here into more overall context. the idea of another industry springing up all around this – I suppose it is inevitable, but that bothers me, quite a lot.

    more banana peel! :)

    and more good advice for completely making it a bad day for the NSA. in the second half. vaca louca. if we all did this regularly…

    The Mad Cow Retaliation Plan

  • @ ulvfugi and Kirk

    LOL! Come on now dears. Don’t sulk. You are both extremely cute (although ulv has the edge). Totally busy here, so all I can do is throw out a few scattered, paraphrases from musicals:

    Guys and Dolls:
    “So sue me, sue me, what can you do me, I LOVE you!”


    A Most Happy Fella:
    “I like everybody, but extra spec’ly I like you!”


    Groucho Marx:
    “I’d like to spend an hour with you. I’d like to stay the whole day through, but I really must be going”

    Ciao for now

  • @ Artleads

    Contrary to your assumption, I’m older than you are, and if you presented ME with a ‘work of art’ that fell to pieces while being displayed, I’d fire you and/or sue you, and certainly never work with you again.

    Aphex Twin