Required awareness to handle climate change is impossible

by Godofredo Aravena

Seems to me that all efforts to create awareness about climate change will be useless. Any effort to make the average individual understand the problem we are facing today, will be useless. “Limits to growth” is a good example of failed efforts. The message has been there for 40 years. The required awareness, at a global scale, a necessity to handle the current situation, is something that seems to me impossible, because we are, as specie, not smart enough to handle our own power.

Based on my experience, average human has, let´s say, a six-dimensional perception of the world. Own body, family, house, job, grocery store (stores in general) and neighborhood. Anything beyond this limits, it is outside of a truly understanding (something happens out there, but nobody dares to find out what and how). Nation is a distant concept understood only because our job and family require some security provided by the concept of nation. Most people do not understand how the nation-system works. Water and electricity are there, always available. Food, at the grocery store. Job, a place to go and do something for what we receive some fiat money. Garbage, is taken by the garbage truck, to who knows where. Dirty water goes somewhere. Smoke vanishes into the air. Outside these limits, nobody knows what is really going on. Nobody knows how things happen.The mechanisms.We are unable to connect the dots. Concurrently, nobody knows their footprint and the effects of it to the rest of this world (present and future). Nobody cares.

But the world, the biosphere, mankind activity included, is a thousand times more complex (ten thousand dimensions?). Average people can handle only six …. We have not been able to model climate. We have not been able to model the behavior of the ocean (I work with it). We have not been able to make a robot like in “I robot” (the movie), that is still Sci-Fi, even though we have been trying for more than 50 years. We have not been even close to make an organic part of a human body. Our so respected medical doctors can just help to repair it. The truth is that the final repair is done by the body itself. We know that gravity exists, but we do not know what it is. And so on. There are so many things we do not know how they work. The reality of the average human is so basic.

Nature is so complex, and its understanding is so far away from our current knowledge. We are full of experts, that know little about things outside their technical knowledge boundaries. The average personal knowledge has an ultra-narrow bandwidth. I am an engineer and can see how ignorant we are even designing simple things like a ship or a car. The ignorance factor is always present, in any design (30-40% margin sometimes). Testing of models, in real conditions, is the only way to assure reliable functioning, by trial and error. The failures of the Challenger and the Columbia are good examples of our lack of knowledge of the complexities of the real world.

Our society has become a heavier load to the biosphere, and what did not matter 100 years ago, now it does matter. Our footprint as society, the result of the aggregated footprint of all individuals (including babies), is something that today matters. It has a visible effect. But is beyond average people (the 99.9% of us), to understand how their own individual actions affect somebody in the other side of the world, or 20-50 years ahead from now.

If we as society have already failed to understand the consequences to people and nature of our personal and family footprint, I see it as impossible to understand on time how we contribute to climate change, oil depletion, and all other calamities ahead, and how they will affect us. And take action on time to avoid disaster. So if we talk about climate change, a very-very complex relation between several factors, is impossible to expect that the process will be fully understood by average people, to make it a personal issue. Until it becomes something understandable because affects one of their six basic dimensions. By that time, it will be too late. The average human does not have the necessary brain capacity (and required knowledge) to handle the power we have as species. Give somebody a chainsaw, and enough fuel and food, and can spent his life chopping down trees without any question about consequences (the boss must know …).

We are just like those young sicarios (hired killers) that we see in Mexico, young boys (16-17 years old) with a gun, that can kill anybody without any remorse. Totally unaware of the consequences of their acts. Too immature. As our society today. Too much power, too immature to handle it.

Then, we have to add the trap of the system itself. We have been raised among the system, we need the system to live. The same system that we can´t handle properly. We do not understand how it really works, but we need it, and we use it (like a car). There are some people who can handle more than six dimensions, and potentially act accordingly. But even knowing, it is almost impossible to live outside the system. We are not prepared, the system does not offer alternatives.

So, total lack of understanding of the system, that implies total lack of understanding of the system footprint (us included), and total lack of understanding of the mechanism of the biosphere and environment. Plus, the fact that we are totally dependent of the system, and do not know another way of living. We have the recipe for disaster.

In conclusion, I see no way to change our current path. We are doomed. We have total failure of the system.

Godofredo Aravena is a 52-year-old ship designer who spent 15 years working in the most important shipyard in Chile to become head of the Naval Architecture Section. He worked nine years as an independent naval architect, with a small office in Concepción, Chile. He and his wife have two daughters and a granddaughter.


Thanks to ulvfugl for pointing out a technical fix to the problem of the disappearing comments: “I’m using Chrome browser. Go to top right corner, click three horizontal bars, says ‘new incognito window’, get NBL, and everything is immediately updated. Can’t advise for any other browsers, but I assume it’s something to do with cookies and being tracked, etc, because being anonymous fixes it.”

Comments 116

  • We are just like those young sicarios (hired killers) that we see in Mexico, young boys (16-17 years old) with a gun, that can kill anybody without any remorse. Totally unaware of the consequences of their acts. Too immature. As our society today. Too much power, too immature to handle it.

    Sure, sure. Of course. This coming from someone who designed ships for the military (specifically, the Navy). And what is a military if not sicarios? Do you not see the irony? All those years designing contraptions, the explicit and only function of which is to bring massive death and destruction, and yet no remorse? You just kept designing away and now list it as an accomplishment….proudly, no doubt. Like Big Al, you have to come clean and give it all up. Everything. Title, status and any and all money. Otherwise, I just can’t take you seriously. You can’t bring any of it with you to NTE. You must strip yourself of all worldly possessions and prepare to be transformed. Otherwise, you’re just another huckster.

  • You can’t have unlimited growth in a world of finite resources. It’s something I heard Guy say in a talk. Everyone is in this together. Everyone has participated in an expansion that will outstrip our capacity. Whatever job we’ve done can be accounted as part of the expansive growth that will, all together, bring it crashing down. Is the guy who made warships more accountable than the guy making pencils? We did this together, figuring out who’s more guilty than the other person doesn’t seem useful. Maybe we could accept joint responsibility rather than figure out who’s more to blame. I think we need compassion right now, compassion for each others un-awareness, un-consciousness or inability to face death, our own and that of all life. It’s a funeral after all that we’re talking about attending. Only this one has no survivors left to grieve, let alone assign blame.

  • Funny, my few years as a (software) engineer — read, “software janitor”, trying to clean up and adapt other people’s work to new platforms — rewired my brain into thinking I could “fix” things. That happened at around age 30 — the conceit of the young? (I should have remained steady in my conclusions of human perversity from studying History and Anthropology.)

    And it still pops in now and then, thinking that if I just stay late and tweak the code at the next level down. Run that DEBUG program in MS-DOS and step through the problem until you see where the error is.

    No doubt you hear that in my posts here, where I toss off a sequence of actions that “could fix” this situation. Well, could have…

    But it’s always “… if only people would do such-and-such” and the question becomes how to motivate. And we’ve seen the political layer at which people might organize an effort become total madness incarnated. Something out of The Exorcist with some of them. Or Stepford people.

    “Fixes”, such as, if everybody walked out of their house this morning, and kept on walking — to work — instead of getting in their cars. I can imagine these things, but it’s more like something you’d see in a movie, where suddenly everyone’s perceptions had changed. (I still think of “The Day The Earth Stood Still” — “Klaatu barada nictu!)

    Or they stopped eating cows, and went out to plant some fast-growing trees over all that pastureland. Sure, that would do it! Or turned their thermostats down when they left the house. Sure! Right!

    But our friend Godofredo has given us eloquent insight into the inertia of human (tool-using) culture. As long as something “works” in the shortest run, it will continue to be used, because there is no evolutionary incentive to be the first outlier, the first guy to do something different amongst the mass of population. They wouldn’t copy you, anyway. You’re not cool! This is why the petri dish population always collapses. And everyone acts surprised! WTF! Who coulda node?!?

    Human culture does not change, usually, except from an outside shock. (Sometimes, a sweeping change — the Renaissance, the Age of Enlightenment — may develop internally. But it is usually only a few players, perhaps those at the top, who participate. The rest just adopt what falls off the assembly line of that change.)

    And this time, The Lag factor — the accumulated methane from extinctions of millions of years ago, waiting to clobber us even if — or especially AS, in the case of particulates screening out atmospheric heat — we reform our ways. Sorry! Too late! Your term paper was due last Friday! (Nice try, though!) The overshoot of our geological impact is already on the scoreboard.

    The main question remaining for me is what niches, and where, might play out Life awhile longer? And, will Collapse come soon enough to save a diversity of species adaptable to new climates?

    And I have to live with the madness of knowing this, being able to visualize the steps that will leave these last niches, far in advance of billions of others entering into the panic stage which will come at the beginning of those steps. “Lights out” all over the world.

  • In Tipping Points, Malcolm Gladwell talked about the efficacy of Paul Revere vs another person who rode off in two different directions to warm of the invasion. Revere is remembered by history because he was effective. The second person had no affect whatsoever. No one believed him of the dire consequences about to unfold.

    It turns out that Revere was a master networker (he owned a printers press which helped as well), and known up and down the corridor he rode. His word meant something because he had social credit.

    Unfortunately, you absolutely must need this to affect change. No one will believe another person unless they have known them personally for a long time. Its human nature to repulse new information.

    Herein lies much of the problem. Discovering the future tends to require some out of the box thinking… the type of thinking which perhaps doesn’t occur to the highly social types. Why should that type of person want to tell their friends they are going to die? It’s simply unnecessary.

    So, the rest of us frustrate ourselves trying to explain the situation to the ones we love until we realize… there is virtually no benefit to anyone involved. So, we stop, and we check in with other like minds.

    Well done Godofredo!

  • More folks seem to be dealing with their long suppressed sense that things just aren’t the same lately, as they ever were. But, those of us humans that exist in a sensory/perceptual realm that tells one that I’m the center of the universe, on a small place that conforms to the highly advanced concepts of Plane Geometry, about which the sun, moon, and the heavens rotate really have our work cut out for ourselves to really inhabit the larger description of the cosmos that is completly at odds with our sensory experience. IMO I’ll generalize the dilema to all of us. Throw in life’s Ups and Downs (both concepts are absolutly incorect linguistic constructions) and the need to satisfy Maslow’s lower levels of the pyramid, and we get the results of our Thermodynamic Imperitive.

    I love the Yuppie’s Neuremberg Defence “I had to pay the mortgage!”

    But the collapse is finding its way into unusual media out lets, like Murdok’s NY Times

    Now zen, keep on embracin’ it all,

    Mac in MN

  • @ Henry

    Godofredo laments that people don’t know what is going on outside their bubble. He says nobody cares. Linking the two is simple: people don’t know because they don’t care. If they cared, they would know.

    You care and so you know. And you have to live with the knowledge at the same time as you have to live among the uncaring and ignorant. Your observations about human nature seem sound to me, but I venture to say that you have perhaps not lived during a time when something shifted and your fellow citizens came out of their cultural trance seemingly all at once.

    I have. South Africa, 1986. Things got ugly fast, but then everyone adapted to the new reality and the pantomime of pretending that they were never taken in by the old order or participated in its horrors commenced. Fun. But it wasn’t only a “few players,” as you say. Everyone participated because everyone had a stake.

    There will come a time, probably too late, when the horror of our predicament becomes palpably obvious. I expect that one of the first signs will be everyone realising their cars are worthless, and the market will be flooded with vehicles no one will buy.

  • Future Unknown

    Sometimes I feel that I must weep
    We might be on the edge of doom
    I lie awake, I cannot sleep
    So many promises to keep
    Once more, I feel that I must weep
    The news is filled with too much gloom
    How many of us sigh and weep
    Because these messages of doom
    Into our nightly dreams can creep
    And when I wake, I have to weep
    For promises I will never keep
    For prophets’ words that someday soon
    All of us will sigh and weep
    When standing on the edge of doom.

  • Sicario,
    I see that you’re still waiting to be transformed. Posting here must mean that you still have a laptop or similar and perhaps other “worldly goods” too? And how do you know that Godofredo has no remorse? He’s quite right, most of us still depend on the system. We’re all culpable simply by being alive. But that’s OK. Maybe, instead of trolling, you should read Guy’s advise on coping in this end phase. Read his book Going Dark or the older posts here on this site. A little bit of fellow feeling for Godofredo might be in order here. And what about real humour (not sarcasm, the lowest form of wit)? You certainly don’t have any of that. Please start YOUR transformation process or “shoot down” contributions on other “more suitable” sites. In other words …

  • Cowgirl Apocalypse Haiku #80

    Turkey vulture, wings
    outstretched, stands on the treetop
    and gently rotates.

  • @ Clifford Gomes

    Disgorging a quantity of Moralic Acid is not the same thing as being a moral human being.

  • @ Clifford Gomes

    Sorry. I meant to say Sicario. :cool:

  • I agree with everything written except the conclusion.

    I think of it more like, we are doomed if the term is qualified as destined to catastrophe as applied to society. Societies have collapsed and rebuilt time and time again.

    There is no good reason to think we won’t bounce back. Only the most extreme scenarios which have little reason to back them up provide enough raw chaos needed for extinction.

    Everything else is doable.

  • If one truly accepts the notion of NTE, then there is nothing left to say. Nothing. There’s no need to pen essays and create blogs about it. There’s no need to post comments to collapse blogs endlessly with daily laments. If you really believe it, if you’re really resigned to your near term extinction, then you will let go, and letting go means, as well as many other things, shutting up about your imminent extinction and occupying your remaining time with something more fulfilling rather than trying to prove your point every day from here on out or whining about your pending demise. All those posting here, considering what I’ve just mentioned, clearly have not accepted NTE. You’ve clearly not resigned yourself to it, so we have to ask, what are you doing at this space on a daily basis if it isn’t what I indicated? I don’t think you’re here, at least the majority of you or all of you who are regular posters, because you care and love. I think it’s the opposite. I think you’re angry and you hate, and like fire & brimstone Fundamentalist Christians, you want to conjure the wrath of nature (your God) down upon all those you consider a nuisance, which is pretty much everybody, including yourselves.

  • @ Sicario
    Yes, I agree, but, I have to pay the mortgage! I’ve long said that the only way to truly walk away from empire is to strip naked and wander into the wilderness – and, since I live in Denver, the wilderness is not far away – where I would quickly die of exposure, starvation, or predator attack. Is that what I must do to atone for my life of being one of the 15% of the world’s population using 80% of the world’s resources? You mean turning down my thermostat and driving a Prius doesn’t get me there?

    I realized a long, long time ago that Industrial Civilization left me empty and sad. Then I discovered Guy McPherson, Xray Mike, and John Michael Greer and I realized that, even though I was just doing what I was raised, trained, and expected to do, whatever I thought I had accomplished was just bullshit and, worse, destructive.


    Just staring out the window of this runaway train. I keep thinking we will have “lights out” any day now – but, I’ve been thinking that for over 6 years now…

    The Voluntary Extinction Movement
    Thou shalt not procreate.

    The Church of Euthanasia
    Save the planet, kill yourself.

  • Godefredo, Thanks. Good insights. Most of us aren’t built for super-curiosity and obsessive research. In a harmonious world our species was better off that way. Pay attention to what is needful today, follow the pattern laid down by your ancestors … Enjoy. Circumstances have certainly changed. Why should we expect humans to change rapidly enough to save ourselves?

    Henry, thanks for this: “And I have to live with the madness of knowing this, being able to visualize the steps that will leave these last niches, far in advance of billions of others entering into the panic stage which will come at the beginning of those steps. “Lights out” all over the world.”
    Reading it was cathartic.

    Martin, your insight about South Africa was very interesting. So we have that to look forward to, do we. A mass awakening followed by, “I knew it all along.” Fun?

    Denise, what would we do without your haiku? Thanks.

  • @Wren thank you for showing us Martin Witfooths paintings. The whole predicament. No words at all.

  • @Noisy Fall

    I think that’s a rather broad stroke you’re painting NTE’ers with. Just because someone is aware of their demise, doesn’t mean they’ll magically snap out of ‘it’, and act according to your reasoning.

    In fact, it seems most people who are suddenly grasping what they perceive to be a new sense of expanded awareness actually go through a kind of psychotic trauma. They are incapable of emotionally processing it all, and analytically keeping it all together. That’s what I think leads to the NTE thought process in the first place. Jumping to radical conclusions when too many unknowns pop up. They go from unknown unknowns to known unknowns and require the comfort of ANY conclusion, even if it’s an erroneous NTE.

    I do think most people who comment are bitter, and there’s likely many reasons for it. My guess is most are bitter that they don’t relate, and don’t have community support to realize their ideas.

  • @ Noisy Fall

    you’re correct.

    If you look over the comments over the years you will notice there are many, many, regular posters who, after a while, quit posting and moved on… so it will be with those of us who are posting now. We will fade away…

    If the collapse is quick and messy, then none of us will ever know what happened to any of us past and/or present NBL posters.

    If the collapse is slow and we see worldwide militarization – then we may meet again – in a FEMA camp. I will ask: “Did you ever hear of Guy McPherson, Xray Mike, or John Michael Greer?”


  • @ Godofredo

    Thanks. Good essay.

    @ Noisy Fall.

    If one truly accepts the notion of NTE, then there is nothing left to say. Nothing.

    What utter nonsense. There’s endless amounts to say. The more deeply one enters into the matter, the more there is to say about it. Only the shallow, trivial, superficial ones who have no insight have nothing to say !

    WE, all of us, are sharing this moment in time, the pinnacle of human history. It defines what we are, what we have been. You think that’s a reason to be SILENT ? That’s insane.

    We are story telling animals, we jabber about everything. This is the most terrible, traumatic, dramatic, cataclysmic episode in the history of our species. Why the hell would we be silent about it ? It’s AWESOME.

    If you truly grasp the significance of what is occurring, it means attempting to grasp the fundamental significance of existence and identity. It doesn’t get any more profound than that. What’s even more amazing, all the previous attempts, throughout history, get broken and have to be re-appraised and re-evaluated.

    Some here just throw up there hands and say it’s all pointless and meaningless and we may as well give up or commit suicide. But I don’t share that view. I’m here every day because I think this is the most interesting and stimulating place on the whole of the internet.

    Watching this thing roll out, witnessing it, trying to understand it, trying to explain it to people, sharing the anguish and the horror and the revulsion, sharing the dismay at the idiocy and corruption and disgusting behaviour and ignorance of our fellow humans… all of these things and more are reasons not to remain silent.

    Sure, people come and go all the time. Everybody’s response is going to be different. Yours is just silly.

    I think you’re just trying to find a way to have a dig at the people here, the same old troll tactic, trying to make out it’s some sort of obsessive cult.

    I’ll take you seriously when you get a recognisable identity.

    @ Martin

    Gosh. An interesting comment. Thanks.

  • Thanks for a great essay. One thing I would like to respond to, though, is that I would not say that “the system has failed.” I would say it is doing exactly what it is intending to do. Unfortunately, sadly, is not a system with a consideration for the highest good for all of life as part of it’s foundational principles.

  • @ ulvfugl
    Excellent response to noisyfall. I’ve read it several times and it expresses so much I have not been able to articulate. Our generation is indeed ‘the crown of creation’, for whatever it’s worth. There is so much to consider and discuss while we still can. Thanks.

    I enjoyed your comment on the questions that remain. I love hearing the stories of how we all got to where we are, what path, what process, what paradigm shift. One of my pivotal moments was my mother reading Carson’s ‘Silent Spring’ to me as a young child at the kitchen table.

    @ logspirit
    I printed out your advice to KK- I will pin it to my studio wall. Thanks.

  • @ Wren

    You mention Rachel Carson. The book that awakened me was Farewell to Shady Glade. I must have been 7 or 8 when I read it. It is dedicated to Carson.

    The strangest thing is that there was an open lot across from my house that was a shady glade. There was a rickety fence on which was growing a fruit that is almost the definition of an older world that has passed out of existence: the quince. There was a spinney of tall trees in which weaver birds nested. Then the graders came and flattened the lot and a new house was built. People moved in. The proved to be shadowy figures whom we never got to know. They drove an expensive car.

  • I think the words “based on my experience” are key here – you sound like an atheist, with a very limited social circle.

    Not only is the article awfully written, and clearly incorrect, but if anything it seems more of a sad reflection of how you see yourself and your life, which instead of remedying, are then attempting to project onto others.

  • Just a quick musical opening for us all:

    ulvfugl: Isn’t it funny (besides annoying) how some people come here and decide what we’re all supposed to be doing – or just keep falling back on “we’ve always overcome our adversities.” As if . ..

    Godofredo – thanks for your essay, to which I agree. The only reason I keep posting “reality checks” or what’s currently happening is to document our trip, down and out, noting the mile markers (like the Singapore sized ice berg that calved off of the Pine Island glacier on Monday). I try to cover all the bases: the economy, environment, disease spread, animal and fish die-offs, social upheaval, infrastructure collapse, and all the stupid policies that we humans agree to along the way. It’d be laughable if it weren’t so tragic.

    Wren: Carson had a very tough fight as a scientist and a woman up against a giant chemical company with no heart and only profit to consider. It was great that she won that round, but as we’ve seen it doesn’t stop there and, though she pointed out the reality of what they were doing, they continued anyway and, well, here we are with dying bees, fish, etc. from chemical pollution. Thanks for bringing her up. Silent Spring scared the shit out of me way back then and now it seems that her ‘dead spring’ event may come to pass before long. There are no words for how sad this is, but it’s good to have others with which to commiserate.

    Martin: wistful, poignant comment. Thanks.

  • @ Solaris

    What piffle you talk. Do you live in the Hampshires? Who cares about having a full social diary and boasting about it? Making friends as a competitive sport is so yesterday.

    Stanislaw Lem must be rolling in his grave.

  • This ought to make people sit up and take notice:

    November 13, 2013 – TAIWAN – A strain of bird flu that scientists thought could not infect people has shown up in a Taiwanese woman, a nasty surprise that shows scientists must do more to spot worrisome flu strains before they ignite a global outbreak, doctors say. On a more hopeful front, two pharmaceuticals separately reported encouraging results from human tests of a possible vaccine against a different type of bird flu that has been spreading in China since first being identified last spring, which is feared to have pandemic potential. The woman, 20, was hospitalized in May with a lung infection. After being treated with Tamiflu and antibiotics, she was released. One of her throat swabs was sent to the Taiwan Centers for Disease Control. Experts there identified it as the H6N1 bird flu, widely circulating in chickens on the island. The patient, who was not identified, worked in a deli and had no known connection to live birds. Investigators couldn’t figure out how she was infected. But they noted several of her close family and friends also developed flu-like symptoms after spending time with her, though none tested positive for H6N1. The research was published online Thursday in the journal Lancet Respiratory Medicine. Since the H5N1 bird flu strain first broke out in southern China in 1996, public health officials have been nervously monitoring its progress — it has so far killed more than 600 people, mostly in Asia. Several other bird flu strains, including H7N9, which was first identified in China in April, have also caused concern but none has so far mutated into a form able to spread easily among people. “The question again is what would it take for these viruses to evolve into a pandemic strain?” wrote Marion Koopmans, a virologist at the National Institute for Public Health and the Environment in the Netherlands, in a commentary accompanying the new report. She said it was worrying that scientists had no early warning signals that such new avian influenzas could be a problem until humans fell ill. (there’s more)

  • It not only made me sit up and take notice, Tom. It gave me goosebumps. You hit the sweet spot with that one. Thanks.

    What they failed to mention was the Taiwanese woman was described by her neighbors as “a shadowy figure who drove an expensive car.” So, it couldn’t have happened to a better person and now Martin can feel satisfied and vindicated. He (Martin) will not be happy until all shadowy nuisances who drive expensive cars are eliminated from the Earth, and even then he’ll renege on his satisfaction and move to another subset of people until everyone has perished.

  • Martin

    Like your comment. I had a house over the road as a boy to, not dissimilar to that which you describe.
    Just want to point out….

    “……They drove an expensive car.”

    All cars are expensive, when the total costs are accounted fr. I call them personal chariots, which brings forth the days of the Pharaoh, the only one wealthy enough to use one…. whenever convenient !, and in a sense the modern car, indicates this is our unconscious hubris, if that is not an oxymoron. Embedded in IC expectation is the ‘need’ for a personal chariot, fuelled by the power of the ancient sun.
    What a magic light is locked away in those carbon layers.

  • (there’s more)

    Oh, I’m sure there is. There’s ALWAYS more. Hopefully, NTE will take care of that constant, but there’s no guarantees.

  • Martin, thank you for the book reference. I will check it out. And yes, I’ve noticed that a lot of us here on the beach have had that Paradise Lost incident. I feel so fortunate that my childhood, and perhaps yours, was lived on the very cusp of paradise. We had it in our hands and hearts; it was there in our backyards, and then the bulldozers moved in. I pulled my first survey stake at age 8. The foreman of the work crew showed up at my door (surprise!) and spoke with my parents. I wasn’t punished but was asked not to do it again since my cover was blown, and they had been threatened with a fine.

    Tom- Carson was one of my heroes too. The reading of Silent Spring came after I had watched trucks drive through the neighborhood spewing a mist of DDT; some of the neighborhood kids ran in the mist behind the truck… Not me, but the unforgettable smell told me that I had gotten a massive dose anyway.

  • Goosebump (Morocco Bama)

    It’s quite a weight you’re carrying, to judge from your many comments under ever-changing handles. I’ve observed that, politically, you’re on the left, but, economically, you appear to be a libertarian. Both are expensive habits, and the world just got a lot poorer. Both amount to a demand for greater accommodation, but the world just got a lot smaller.

    If politics makes you stupid, I can’t imagine what identity politics does to one’s brain, but it can’t be pretty. I have noticed a deterioration in the quality of your thought over time. Constantly banging the drum for social justice has made you into a one-trick pony. I really don’t care if you’re a black man married to a white woman, or the reverse, or whatever it is that drives you to scour the landscape with narrowed eyes to identify anyone who finds your domestic arrangements mildly unsettling, but I for one don’t care about your marriage-as-social-sciences-project. Consider: if you’d married someone who looks like you you’d have to do a lot less hollering.

    And you’ve had kids. I don’t know if you had children to extend your ego into the world and as a way to increase your territoriality, as many do, or that you simply love your daughter like a regular dad, but you are in the grip of a terrible fear, and roar and groan at those willing to contemplate the real possibility that your children have no future, calling them misanthropes or worse. Try to get a grip, bud. It’s not personal.

  • Here’s a list of some of the aliases that appear to have been used by Morocco Bama aka Carol Newquist, etc, over recent days. Of course some of these may have been other anonymous trolls – who knows, unless they are traced to a specific source. Possibly some belong to Solaris / Dean of Trolling ? although I don’t really regard this last as a troll so much as an individual who has no idea what this blog is about or why they are here.



    Alfred Nugent


    Father Yod


    Barbara Grant

    venus is my name

    Eddie Gnash




    Laurel Canyon




    Useless Eater

    Cole Sear

    Megan Rhodes



    Radioactive Paradise

    Hamburger Recipe


    Cocky Cross

    Chicken George

    Walter Amesbury

    Move to Beverly

    Black Shirts Rising


    Noisy Fall


  • Hi Martin

    Yes,what ‘Farewell to Shady Glade’ did for you an Epiphany on the preciousness of the natural world and its inhabitants the ‘Wind in the Willows’ did for me in England. :-) and:

  • Carol Newquist, et al (aka the troll of all trolls).

    Very perceptive observation, ulv.

  • @ulv
    Yes, we are perhaps the pinacle of human development on the planet. And are offered the awareness of the fruits of our strivings, NTE. Here we can contemplate the end of the journey and apply any number of theoretical and spiritual frameworks to apprehend the predicament.

    Seems ironic to me that what we have is the ultimate “First World Problem”. In that, without a first world there would be no problem of this magnatude to contemplate, and none of the intelectual tools that we doomers bring to bear.

    If we were fully occupied on the lowest level of Maslows hierarchy and unable to have the luxury of approaching self actualization, then we wouldn’t be having this exchange.

    Mac in MN finding the Crown to be an uncomfortable fit.

  • @ Wren
    Glad you found something helpful in my words. While we can’t stop the cataclysm anymore, we can choose to make positive changes in our lives, in particular to healthy flesh free diets. That path enables us to live out the time we have left a quantum leap better, with clarified life force and happiness. By taking it we lighten the pressure on our fellow creatures, and thus enable them to live better during the time they have left, as well. It is an act of mutual mercy. It is self respect and respect for all sentient life. It is an act of gratitude for the awareness the universe has enabled us, and them, to experience. It is an act of apology for the shameful crime of Mass Extinction, for the pain and suffering we have caused, with much more to come. It is a good antidote for repressed guilt which gets improving results with increasing practice. It is an act of sincere protest that is immune to knowledgeable, sensible, criticism. Any person who makes these changes speaks for the whole of humanity. It is not only an act of self enhancement, to achieve health and fitness, to feel better. It is an act of empowerment, a renunciation of diabolic behavior and a declaration of liberation from the dictates of the oppressive, insane, Death Culture. Don’t enable your tormenters. Die free. Die strong. Don’t just live… Blaze.

  • Sicario says: QUOTE – I just can’t take you seriously. You can’t bring any of it with you to NTE. You must strip yourself of all worldly possessions and prepare to be transformed. Otherwise, you’re just another huckster.

    Here’s another troll using the same silly argument which has of late been used to attack both Professor McPherson and his message on other web-sites. The first vein goes, if the professor is in fact sincere about the effects of global warming, and if he expects his message-board accusers to be subsequently moved so as to do something about the climate, then just why does he continue to be hooked-up to the electric-power grid? Or, why does he continue to travel about in either carbon spewing cars or jetliners. Or, why does he continue to make use of such technologically advanced devices like cell-phones or digital-computers if they are causing so much climate harm? And what about those clothes? What about all the fancy clothes which he has been known to wear to events? Surely, if the professor really wants to be seen as a man of true sincerity then shouldn’t he also be required to renounce all of his worldly possessions and then go about in public wearing no more that but a simple loin-cloth?

    But, of course, if the professor did any of the things which the climate-change deniers demand as a means of proving his sincerity, he would also be no longer capable of getting his message heard in respect to the greater world. And, most especially if he should also be subsequently jailed for having worn nothing but a simple-loin cloth in public or should he be picked-up on a charge of vagrancy for having no place to live. Thus, the real aim of the climate-change deniers is quite clear, in that if by means of the troll-urged application of this potential shaming technique, they can somehow get the professor to renounce all of the products of the modern age, they also know that they might then also thereby cut him off from any ability to contact a sizable audience. Yes, it seems that all of the other arguments as might be offered by the climate-change deniers are actually so weak that all they apparently have left is he rather forlorn hope that they might somehow still shame the professor into keeping silent. But, of course neither the professor or his inner core of supporters are ever likely to go falling for this technique.

    Yes, it’s maybe actually laughable that someone like Sicario should be so dumb as to suppose that this particular shaming technique might be caused to work on Nature Bats Last where probably many of the very brightest people in the world currently gather to converse. Indeed, probably almost none of those persons who may have thus far gravitated to the Beach of Doom might be also looking for any sort of Gandhi type spokesman and/or savior to subsequently lead them somewhere. And, of course most persons as would regularly visit this site could probably care less whether the good professor should henceforth decide to start appearing in public wearing little more than just a simple loin cloth about him, or not! Right?

    So, let us now examine that other method by which TPTB are currently trying to attack the professor. This other method is usually associated with the word ‘huckster’. Sicario in his post plainly makes use of that very word in an effort to launch an indirect attack aimed at the professor himself. Typically, the word ‘huckster’ is understood to mean someone who is engaged in either an dishonest or unethical enterprise for the purposes of acquiring an otherwise undeserved financial reward. Unfortunately, the professor is quite susceptible to being called a huckster. But, not because that charge could ever be shown to ultimately true. Instead, it’s simply a rather unfortunate fact that ever since the beginning of recorded time persons who could indeed be called hucksters have been known to travel from town to town and preach a message of pending worldly doom.

    And, here’s how their scam would generally work: a practicing huckster would come into town preaching a fire and brimstone embellished message of pending worldly doom in a deliberate effort so as to try to scare the crap out of their usually very simple-minded listeners. Then, at the very moment that his listeners begin to fear that the whole world might indeed well be lost in the near future, the practicing huckster will then attempt to sell them some of imaginary means by which they might possibly save themselves from the pending doom. For instance, a practicing huckster might offer to pray on behalf of the otherwise lost in return for money or some other sort of consideration. Or, a practicing huckster might offer members of his frightened audience the opportunity to purchase something like an officially-signed and ribbon covered indulgence, or perhaps just a simple talisman device, with which a fully paid-up bearer might then receive a completely unencumbered subsequent passage onto a supposed heavenly afterlife.

    But, of course not all present day practicing hucksters are using a strictly religious message so as to try to fleece their listening audiences. Indeed, there are plenty of hucksters out there right now on the global-doom talk circuit who are out to sell their audiences many other sorts of things such as guns and ammo, camping and survival gear, years long supplies of freeze-died foods, or even secret maps to a purported safe havens up the hills, or perhaps even time-share options on condos in far away Uruguay. Yes, it’s plainly no secret that a good global-doom huckster is usually able to subsequently sell his audiences almost anything at all and then walk away with a deep pocketful or ready cash and a fat bank account.

    So, it is almost amusing that the global warming deniers would so often resort to tying to call Professor McPherson a ‘huckster’. For surely he should also have to be considered the most thoroughly inept for profit motivated preacher of pending global doom as might have ever come down any pike. Plainly, if the professor was really out to make money then his thus far practiced business model must surely be in need of a great deal of work.

    Please, but let us re-examine what the professor is presently doing in respect to his from time to time traveling and informing people about their pending climate prompted doom. And, as one can often see in the videos that his audiences do tend to find his message to be quite shocking. Who can fail to note the look of complete shock and almost desperate fear on many of those person’s faces? Hell, in another time and in another place that sort of perfect set-up of an audience may have well seemed like a real practicing huckster’s dream! Plainly, a real huckster might well have been able to sell those people almost anything as they continued to look up at the carefully speaking professor for any signs of hope from him at all. But, as the good professor repeatedly makes clear throughout all of his various climate-change doom talks, he really has no hope that he might try to sell to anyone. None!

    Indeed, he seemingly has nothing to sell except the message that we were all ultimately doomed, and that neither he, or anyone else amidst this world can actually do a damned thing about it!

    Dare one ask, what kind of practicing huckster message is that? Surely, if the professor had been out to make a real buck he might have then told them all sorts of other things. He could have then offered to lead them in a round of sincerely meant prayers and then passed around a collection plate or solicited other sorts of donations to his ‘church’. Or, he could have then sold them on the idea of spending a great deal of money on a massive atmospheric-engineering project that he had an interest in. Or, he might have gotten them to invest in a carbon-trading scheme that his broker had set up for him. Or, he might have even tried to sell the public new kinds of supposedly more efficient appliances or lighting devices, that he had also just happened to have the franchise rights for, so as to try to encourage a lower energy consumption rate in the future.

    Plainly, at that point the professor might have been able to sell those very desperate looking people almost anything at all!. But, the facts are that the professor had then tried to sell his listening audience absolutely nothing excepting in respect to the ultimate validity of his entirely science based climate-change augments. So, what kind of totally bazaar business model is that for a supposed climate-doom huckster? Surely, in the whole all recorded history there has probably never before such an utterly incompetent so-called huckster that what Professor McPherson has thus far proven himself to be?

    Thus, while it can be presumed that the global-warming denier’s charge that Professor McPherson is a ‘huckster’ shall never be caused to subsequently stick in respect to the minds of most well informed persons. We unfortunately also know that most of the potential audience that might at any time be listening to the world’s ongoing NTE debate are in fact not going to prove so well informed. And, that we should continue to expect both the ‘huckster’ charge and the earlier mentioned ‘shaming’ technique will be repeatedly used by TPTB in an effort to finally silence the professor’s message. Let us hope that it doesn’t work.

  • @ ulvfugl – You very wisely said:

    WE, all of us, are sharing this moment in time, the pinnacle of human history. It defines what we are, what we have been. You think that’s a reason to be SILENT ? That’s insane.

    YES, if you happen to be one of those few lucky persons who is presently not afraid or dying, then having this kind computer web provided ringside seat at the very ending of all human civilization can sometimes seem a real HOOT! And, it has all thus far been proving almost endlessly fascinating to me. These are indeed some very interesting times!

  • @ Belle Islander

    Can we call you Auntie Morrocobama? Strewth.

  • @ Martin said:

    I really don’t care if you’re a black man married to a white woman, or the reverse, or whatever it is that drives you to scour the landscape with narrowed eyes to identify anyone who finds your domestic arrangements mildly unsettling, but I for one don’t care about your marriage-as-social-sciences-project. Consider: if you’d married someone who looks like you you’d have to do a lot less hollering.

    We’re not sure who this Morroco Bamar person is, but this statement directed at said person is a weird one, and yet very telling. Perhaps it explains why Martin is at home with this topic. He’s at long last found that all-white community he’s been searching for since Apartheid ended so abruptly in South Africa. Collapse, and certainly NTE, is the purview of privileged whites; Martin’s wheelhouse. So, this statement directed at this Morroco Bamar person is Martin’s way of saying, white-only. For Martin, these collapse spaces are his last refuge from the invading coloured hordes. He doesn’t want to see yet another bastion of racial exclusivity breached and destroyed. And so, he conjures a strawman built purely from biased projections stemming directly from his conflicted past. He’s erected a black man to blame as is the wont of most white South Africans, current residents of their former Apartheid state or not. Martin claims he doesn’t care, just as ulvfugl will often state, but he pens his longest post in quite some time–perhaps ever in this space. That’s not an example of someone who doesn’t care about the statement he made above. It’s an example of someone who deeply cares about it; in fact, is deeply disturbed by it, and I would venture right about now he’s wishing he hadn’t reflexively made it. Oh well, too late. Thanks for the validation, Martin. It’s like icing on an already superb moist and delicious cake; almost too much of a good thing. Almost.

    Aside from that, here’s yet another example of how those who advocate AGW with an unnaturally high degree of certitude comport themselves in discussions about the topic. Hertsgaard is emblematic of the Group Think that shrouds AGW advocates. His mind is completely closed, as are many minds that advocate AGW.

    I reaallly didn’t want to do this. I was deliriously tired from getting up at 2 a.m. every morning to chase Comet ISON, and I knew it would probably be a hostile environment on Piers Morgan Live.

    Piers himself was polite, but the guy they had covering the opposite view on the recent typhoon in the Philippines, “environmental correspondent” Mark Hertsgaard of The Nation, pulled out all the stops. Using the D-word, accusing me of scientific malpractice, etc. It was hard to get a word in edgewise.

    Oh well, I’ll let the video speak for itself. If nothing else, it’s fairly entertaining. [They cut out the first part of the interview, where I explain that Typhoon Haiyan was not the biggest typhoon on record…maybe someone can find the full version of this interview for us.]

  • I agree with your realistic [pessimistic] view. Humanity became too “smart” for their own good. Now with the population overshoot there are simply too many people dependent on the system, even if the majority live in poverty, to even question any change to strategy of endless extraction of “natural resources” as a means to survive.
    Most people even oppose and argue any talk about climate change to begin with, thanks to the massive disinformation going around.
    So,yes, it is too late and all we can do is try to make the best of however long we have or choose to go on before the end.

  • good morning

    beside the dicey Fukushima fuel removal we have this

    Thursday, November 14, 2013
    Horrific amounts of methane over Laptev Sea

    [comparison pix included with commentary]

    For some time now, very high methane readings have been showing up over the Laptev Sea. Harold Hensel recently posted the image below with the huge areas solidly colored red indicating release of horrific amounts of methane. Harold adds the following comment:

    “I am fighting for the lives of my children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren who’s lifespan will extend 30 to 40 years from now. I am also fighting for all children of the world, animals, whales, dolphins, flowers and all living things. They are all in peril and we are the ones that may have a chance of doing something about it now. The threat of what is coming must sink in.”

    (concludes with)

    Vast amounts of methane are held in sediments under the Arctic Ocean. The Laptev Sea is part of the Eastern Siberian Arctic Shelf (ESAS, the rectangle on the image on the right). Shakhova et al. (2010) estimate the accumulated methane potential for the ESAS alone as follows:

    •organic carbon in permafrost of about 500 Gt
    •about 1000 Gt in hydrate deposits
    •about 700 Gt in free gas beneath the gas hydrate stability zone.

    Shakhova et al. in 2008 considered release of up to 50 Gt of predicted amount of hydrate storage as highly possible for abrupt release at any time.

    By comparison, the total amount of methane currently in the atmosphere is about 5 Gt.

  • Horrific amounts of methane over Laptev Sea! Thanks for posting the good news, Tom. May the 50 Gt of methane be released TODAY! Nothing could make me happier! Why drag out our demise? We’re not worthy of existence anyway.

  • @ Hot Potato

    And on and on it goes. I don’t care. How to explain a person like you, Morocco? I have seen you moralise like a Baptist minister at multiple screen name use, yet this is what you do. I have followed the trail of your moral fulminations, and they always lead back to self-interest. You rumbled on about race at Clusterfuck Nation, so it’s reasonable to suppose that it matters to you in some or other direct way. It was a guess. If I guessed wrong it doesn’t “tell” anything. It’s you who is projecting. You emit a particular bird call. It sounds like a bird known for its opportunism in the egg-laying department. Someone shouts “cuckoo!” and then you go into a snit.

    Your tired assumptions about white South Africans shows you have no sense of irony. Do grow up. There’s a good boy.

  • I tried to post this twice, so try with a different URL, perhaps the link puts it into moderation for some unknown reason

    These maps make it difficult to ignore warnings about global forest change. Forests not as abstractions but living areas that recede before your eyes.

    The enhancement I would like to see to these maps is the linking of the people responsible with name, photo and last known location.

    Deforestation doesn’t happen because of “those folks in government,” or “people who work for timber companies,” or “economic forces,” although all those categories of anonymous groups are used to avoid moral responsibility.

    No, deforestation happens because named individuals in government, business, manufacturing, farming, have made individual decisions to exploit the forests.

    With enough data on the individuals who made those decisions, the rest of us could make decisions too.

    Such as how to treat people guilty of committing and conspiring to commit ecocide.

  • But Kirk, if your wish is granted, what about The Physiological Society of New Zealand? What will come of all that hard work in holding that fine organization together all these years and all those years you spent toiling away in academia? Surely you aren’t wishing all of that away, are you? Your statement reads like a curse–as though you’re saying “a pox on your house” or “a pox on our house.” Why do you feel a need to conjure The Reaper? Don’t you know The Reaper doesn’t take orders? It comes like a thief in the night, never when you expect or want it, as if anyone would want a thief to come, but apparently some do–maybe an insurance scam of some sort.

    I guess we can assume “shadowy” is euphemism for “black.” Blacks driving expensive cars! Why, that’s enough to make white South Africans flee the country–and some obviously did in search of whiter pastures. NTE is a lily-white meadow and a Last Call Lounge for white privilege. In that sense, yes, there is a NTE in process; the NTE of white privilege. Going, going….gone. Shame. Not really.

  • @ Belle Islander

    More briefly, they are simply attempts to discredit the speaker. They aren’t trying to change the behavior of the speaker, such as getting Guy to quit flying, but to convince listeners to tune him out.

    “Don’t listen to that guy, he is insufficiently pure.”

    Sometimes that’s called for. If the speaker is representing a carbon-friendly position and can be shown to be funded by the fossil fuel industry, it does go to credibility or the lack thereof. And it’s less about “don’t listen” than “we’ve heard this before and it’s a waste of time”.

    The standard attacks on Gore start with “he’s fat”, usually mention Tipper’s attempts to censor music lyrics 30 years ago, and “hey, ManBearPig from South Park? This guy is a joke”.

    The details of “don’t listen because…” vary, but the key message is “don’t listen”.

  • @ all- The book that did it for me was called: Last of the Curlews. My childhood library consisted of Reader’s Digest Condensed books ordered by my mother. (My parents were not what one would call literary people.) Consequently, I read books not meant for a nine year old. I read Andersonville at the age of ten. I was traumatized. Whenever I think of that last Curlew my heart breaks again. Marjorie Morningstar? I didn’t understand a word, but I read it.

    I have been slightly out of step ever since. Still reading, listening and learning.

  • You can’t blame humans, they evolved to tool and information use independent of any will or rational thought. It has made us wildly successful, like metastatic cancer within an organism. Our limbic brains are emotionally and biochemically attached to the seemingly cost-free rewards from using our tools. Before we are done, we will smell the rotting corpse of our ecosystem and all of that “success” and “progress” will be seen for what it really was, manifestations of an aggressive and terminal disease. In the end there won’t be any great leap forward in intellectual development, even with maximal energy and process applied there is today little thought or understanding. When systems and subsystems begin to buckle, the social fabric, weaved to maximize the flow through of energy and resources, will deteriorate and be rewoven as the prospect of “mad max” makes the fearful seek greater safety in law and order. But man’s penchant to cheat and get ahead will always corrupt any system of order until disorder or living outside “civilization” becomes preferable. Civilization is a term that refers to temporary good behavior and cooperation while a resource gradient is metabolized. When the cancer stops delivering the goods there won’t be much “civil” remaining. Citizens buy bullets and guns while the government enhances their ability to maintain “law and order” through spying, drones, incarceration, intimidation of various sorts,and so on. Civility by force. We’ll see how long that lasts once the next big Black Friday hits.

  • @ buz painter

    I’m sure the editorial staff at Reader’s Digest will be deeply upset to learn they’ve midwifed a monster. :)

  • Buz painter – I grew up with the Reader’s Digest Books too, among many others. They were a great way for us kids with short attention spans to key in on what the adults were reading without wasting too much of our time!

    The book that was a true tipping point for me as far as erasing the boundaries between myself and my fellow creatures was “Black Beauty”, an autobiography written in the voice of the horse. I still have that book, with its tear stained pages. Every child should read it, or have it read to them.

  • Cowgirl Apocalypse Haiku #81

    Moist sand trailside leads
    to gritty quagmire – within
    which, clear water seeps.

  • James Says: QUOTE: You can’t blame humans, they evolved to tool and information use independent of any will or rational thought. It has made us wildly successful, like metastatic cancer within an organism.

    WOW! Exactly! I think that I might basically understand where you are going with this and I whole-heartedly agree. And, in the way of a rant I will add this: I think the eventual doom of man was probably sealed maybe three or four thousands years beginning with the rise of what I have come to call the man-worshiping sects (MWS). The fundamentally-unstructured cosmic thought processes of the man-worshiping sects (MWS) have since become stretched out into three main branches is respect to what in now recognized as the Hebrew, Christian, and Muslim traditions; or what could otherwise be called the basic cultural underpinnings of the Western World. And, as we know that the military might of man-worshiping sects has since allowed them to assume near total dominance over of the rest of the planet and most especially in respect the formerly very much differing cosmological thinking in the East.

    Nowadays, people falsely believe that some great or significant difference is to be found between the fundamentally-unstructured cosmological outlook of the man-worshiping sect religions and what could be termed our contemporary sciences. But, that is completely untrue. People might also presume that humankind’s contemporarily understood sciences (and its associated systems of fundamentally-unstructured mathematics) might possibly represent man’s best hope of presently saving himself from his coming global doom. But, that too, especially at this very late date, is also not true. Unfortunately, people today never seem to realize that all of our present day sciences are a direct offshoot of the fundamentally-unstructured cosmological thinking of the man-worshiping sects. And, that not only had all of our contemporary sciences been originally chartered by the religions of the West; but that still to this very day scientists are only allowed to think what they have been told they might think and that is in a most decidedly fundamentally-unstructured sort of way. Please, but there is absolutely no quite independently thinking professionally ‘employed’ scientists in the present day world today. Professor McPherson is but one example of what will happen to a professionally employed scientist whenever he should try to buck the established cultural norms of his society. And, like I’ve said, in this society the only actually approved means by which we might attempt to intellectually view the surrounding physically-manifested cosmos is in a very fundamentally-unstructured sort of way. And, I think that this type faulty cosmological thinking is precisely the reason why we facing extinction today.

    Confused? I just realized that in this rather short rant I’ve managed to say the words fundamentally-unstructured at least six times and that I’ve not yet provided any explanation as to what that might mean. Perhaps, in some other future post I will have an opportunity to provide a proper definition for both fundamentally-unstructured (Western) and fundamentally-structured (Eastern) cosmological thought as some of the truly vast differences between them might also serve to greatly surprise some people.

    @ ulvfugl – From your past mentioned studies of Eastern philosophies I don’t think that any of this is going to greatly surprise you. I also think that you can probably figure out why I have in this instance decided to use another screen-name.

  • Aw, Wren, you and Martin are bringin’ up some standard stuff for me. In fact, all through the formative years of our kids we used the Reader’s Digest word challenge to build vocabulary and books like Black Beauty and others tore us up too.

    Now here’s a mystery I’ve never been able to solve. I swear I read a short account by someone from Hiroshima or Nagasaki recalling how as a child he played this game with a friend where they’d throw a medium sized rock into this (say) 10′ deep pond and take turns retrieving it. Once when it was his turn, he came up after getting the rock and his friend was gone and so was most of the city, replaced by a smoking, destroyed landscape to which he felt like he landed on a desolate planet. I was so sure I read it in the RD but have never been able to find it again. It was so visceral and poignant I cried after reading it – I couldn’t imagine we would do that to anybody. I was probably a junior high school student then.

  • @ Martin Says: Can we call you Auntie Morrocobama?

    Call me anything you want. But just remember that ants are easily stepped on…

  • Re Black Beauty and similar stories, I was very much into that as a child, and read a lot of Ernest Thomson Seton, and was greatly hurt by someone who told me all my feeling for animals were fantasies I projected, anthropomorphising, along the lines of Descartes ‘animals are just machines without souls’, so much of my life has been devoted to studying all kinds of animals and birds to try and discover what they are really like.

    There was a big controversy about this long ago, seems forgotten now.

    There is a kind of fictionalisation that projects human characteristics onto animals that I consider unspeakably evil, typically done by the Disney Corp.

  • @ Belle Islander

    I surrender.

    @ Tom

    Perhaps you would like Barefoot Gen, a true account of a Hiroshima survivor. There is a graphic novel and at least one film. That is, if you want to revisit the Hiroshima tragedy.

  • @ Tom-
    That sounds like a powerful story, to have stayed with you so intensely to this day.
    If you know when that issue of RD books came out, it shouldn’t be too hard to figure out which story it was.
    I’d be interested in knowing.

    Martin’s mention of Gen of Hiroshima reminded me of another anti-war ‘childrens’ film: “Grave of the Fireflies” , 1988, by Isao Takahata … animated, but not the cartoony animé style, very beautifully rendered and subtly colored.
    In Grave of the Fireflies, there is no hope or possibility of things getting better. This is Life at it’s cruelest, life that will never get better. This movie doesn’t move you, it shatters you. Prime beach of doom fare if you enjoy sobbing uncontrollably.

    Check it out- most libraries have it I think.

  • WoodsDweller Says: QUOTE: ….”they are simply attempts to discredit the speaker.”

    NO, but they are not SIMPLE attempts to discredit the speaker. Rather, they are part of a both a very complicated and highly organized attempt to discredit the speaker. In any case, there is nothing SIMPLE about what Professor McPherson has been attempting to do. Just as there’s nothing SIMPLE about the situation that the world presently finds itself it in. These are unique human times such has never happened before and will never happen again.

    There, I’ve tried to keep this posting brief and I’ve tried to keep it SIMPLE

    Does that please you?

  • Jim Class asked me why I feel the need to call out, The Reaper. Sorry Jim, but The Reaper is already here. He’s looking over your left shoulder right now and wondering how you’ve made it thus far.

    Me too! He’s right here, watching every move I make. I don’t want to play the fool in the presence of such a keen observer. But I will sneer in His face and say, “SOON, you’ll be out of a job, Shit-For-Brains!

  • NOTICE – I want to write and say why I have come to admire Professor McPherson and what he’s been attempting to do. I think that the professor would have come to occupy a rather unique place in the whole of human history, were we to have any more history. But we won’t be having any more human history. None at all.

    I must have listened each of the professor’s lectures and his message of doom dozens of times. I don’t know of anyone that has ever tried to take on such an immense task as he has in respect to trying to advise mankind of its pending doom. Personally, I didn’t need him to advise me that man’s remaining time amidst this world must probably be growing very short, because I already had more than enough of my own reasons for thinking it was so. I think that each of us should regard our own near-term extinction as a practical certainty at this point. We’re going to die. We’re all going to die and it’s going to be soon.

    So, what I most greatly admire the professor for is for offering so very many people like me a precious heads-up in respect to warning us of what is to come. We are already condemned creatures. Each and every one of us. And, now it isn’t going to be so much about how we might anymore attempt to live that’s going to be important. Rather, from now on it’s how we might each best choose how to subsequently die which must be thought to really matter.

    The professor’s message has thus far given thousands of people an seeming advance warning of what is to come. It should probably be regarded by all truly thoughtful people as a potential wake-up call as well as a opportunity for each to possibly cleanse their own souls while there’s still time and we each await what must inevitably come. The professor can no longer promise us the possibility of a better life to come. No one can do that anymore. But, my means of his carefully crafted message he has given each of us a precious opportunity to perhaps experience a better death than might have otherwise been our lot had we continued to remain ignorant as to the ultimate seriousness of the present situation.

    I think that what the professor has offered many of us should perhaps be regarded as the very most precious gift of all. And, rather than just thousands, I would prefer to finally see that the professor’s message subsequently reach billions! Or, at least that where I stand in respect to that matter. In any case, the great adventure of our dying has still as yet hardly even begun. And, before this is all through perhaps we shall each have an occasion to discover that these just may have been the very most potentially meaningful times of all.

    PLEASE, As you might have already noticed I have in recent days been respectfully trying to integrate myself on these Beach of Doom message boards. And, that what I would most all prefer to subsequently talk about here is the professor’s great work

  • @ godolfredo,

    Thanks for your article and attempt to deal with how average people deal with reality (6 dimensions). You rightly see how awesomely complex our “system” is. Please keep at it. More needs doing on this subject.

    A quick question:

    “Plus, the fact that we are totally dependent of the system, and do not know another way of living.”

    How do you view aboriginal cultures that only wish “the system” would leave them alone?

  • Technology & Homo callidus paucisapiens.

    Technology necessarily leads to specialisation. Perhaps at first an archer had to be both a bowyer and fletcher. But there came a time when an archer was neither. I don’t know sh*t from Shinola about how the iPhone of the z06 work. And I don’t even need the skills of an archer to make them work.

    The grid of hierarchy helps in this. Once excess resource flows were secured through the adoption of agriculture, an entire “industry” to manage those resources materialised: the social hierarchy. With the profligacy of resource use since the advent of fossil fuel extraction, progressively more can be provided through the hierarchy: the dependence on the hierarchy has progressively shrank the scope of any possible independence from the hierarchy.

    What’s to discuss about NTE?

    An important aspect was addressed in the first comment to the preceding post, and although pertinent to that post, was overlooked by the author of the post.

    The following would be appropriate for discussion in an NTE setting:

    • Suffering: the types, causes, severity, duration, geographical and temporal distribution and most importantly, its amelioration.

    • Whether or not provision should be made to warn and assist survivors past the bottleneck and/or possible intelligent species evolving in the future.

    • Whether and how to preserve our knowledge in a manner accessible and useable to future generations and/or species.

    Humans as an invasive species.

    Any place where we need clothes to survive the weather, we are an technologically assisted invasive species. An adapted mammalian species in colder climates would have and adequate fur coat – its own, not one swiped from some other poor critter.

    Bird flu

    To make such viruses more adapted to a species, they can be serially passed through in several generations in that species. This can increase its virulence and contagiousness within that species in a dozen or two generations. Should this happen naturally, as in conditions of overcrowding in slums, that could be a pandemic in the making.

    Expensive cars

    If someone else is driving the car, should one choose an expensive car, it is not necessary to have a performance car. But if one is doing the driving oneself, the difference between a performance car and the rest is like the difference between a hummingbird and a pigeon.

  • I found myself walking through a dim forest of dream. In it were all the people of the world, and all the animals and plants and mushrooms. It was a crowded noisy wood, all sorts of chatter and voices and jingles and cries all shouting over each other and attempting to force their own peculiar ideas and sales pitches and delusions upon all the rest, who summarily ignored them, and everyone just kept on talking about themselves. In one opening of the wood a small campfire had been built without clearing away the dry leaves, and now the fire was spreading rapidly. The smoke added to the general cacophony, and although some people stopped long enough to sniff and snort and some of them even began shouting about the smoke and the fire… no one else was willing to give it any attention. So the whole wood burned down, all the people, all the animals, all the plants, all the mushrooms. The flames reached so high that even the birds flying in the sky were burned and they all dropped dead to the ground. Then there was a fresh ray of Sunlight that angled across my face, but I knew it was too late to bother to wake up. It wasn’t just a dream.

  • @ Bell Islander
    “what I would most all prefer to subsequently talk about here is the professor’s great work.”

    OK. Looks like that’s what you’re doing. I’m fine with that.

    Meanwhile, there are quite a few other scenes going on here at the beach. Some have ears to ground with pertinent news of methane releases or other items that might give us a clue as to timelines. Some are scanning the horizon, mourning all that has been and will be lost. Still others are drinking beer around the campfire and telling stories about who we are, and how the hell we got here. :-)

  • Wren Says: QUOTE: Still others are drinking beer around the campfire and telling stories about who we are, and how the hell we got here.

    Please, I wish I could join you in doing just that!

  • So much of the time my life has had a dream like tone.

    I have adopted a personal mission: choose to freely live in a connected world by staying awake and being present.

    Some of the time I feel I am able, but mostly I find I have to repeatedly awaken. And in that moment – each time I now stumble over NTE. And attempt to find my balance again, and again, and again. Now i teeter and totter through my days marveling at the beautiful lunacy of my existance. Still emeshed in the mire of empire, while slashing at the strands but

    I consider the young humans that I ferry about in the school bus in drive part-time, and my heart breaks. I pay attention to my environment to keep them safe, and wonder why. They seem so ensconsed in the delusions of modern consumer life, and optomistic, entitled, and screwed.

    I know that everyone wants, nay needs to be right. And as in the dream of yours Logspirit everyone is clamoring to he heard and to believe that their viewpoint and understanding is truest. Me too. But

  • I am copying and pasting what Noisey Falls said because I feel it is the most astute and articulate ‘right on’ thing ever posted at this comment space and someone might have missed it:

    Noisy Fall Says:
    November 14th, 2013 at 10:37 am

    “If one truly accepts the notion of NTE, then there is nothing left to say. Nothing. There’s no need to pen essays and create blogs about it. There’s no need to post comments to collapse blogs endlessly with daily laments. If you really believe it, if you’re really resigned to your near term extinction, then you will let go, and letting go means, as well as many other things, shutting up about your imminent extinction and occupying your remaining time with something more fulfilling rather than trying to prove your point every day from here on out or whining about your pending demise. All those posting here, considering what I’ve just mentioned, clearly have not accepted NTE. You’ve clearly not resigned yourself to it, so we have to ask, what are you doing at this space on a daily basis if it isn’t what I indicated? I don’t think you’re here, at least the majority of you or all of you who are regular posters, because you care and love. I think it’s the opposite. I think you’re angry and you hate, and like fire & brimstone Fundamentalist Christians, you want to conjure the wrath of nature (your God) down upon all those you consider a nuisance, which is pretty much everybody, including yourselves.”

    ~~~~ My personal message to Noisey Falls is I deeply thank you for your insightfullness. I truly accept NTE and have been wondering why I keep coming back here. There is no reason whatsoever.
    I do not pontificate to anyone about NTE. I need no more proof. When I hear that in 50 years we will have such and such technology, I just say to myself, ‘WTF’, who are they kidding.
    Thanks to Guy for facilitating this so I can now give peace a chance. RM

  • logspirit Says: QUOTE: I found myself walking through a dim forest of dream. In it were all the people of the world, and all the animals and plants and mushrooms. It was a crowded noisy wood, all sorts of chatter and voices and jingles and cries all shouting over each other and attempting to force their own peculiar ideas and sales pitches and delusions upon all the rest, who summarily ignored them, and everyone just kept on talking about themselves…

    Are you sure you were dreaming? Are you sure you weren’t wide awake and you were seeing things as they really are? That’s a real gift if you can do that. Speaking of dreams – good or bad – I recently stumbled upon this one and I found it to be very moving.

  • @ Noisy Fall:

    Amen, brother. ‘buff said.

  • @ Reta Martin

    You would appear to have naively fallen for the deceitful tactic being used by Morocco Bama / Carol Newquist aka Noisy Fall aka Hot Potato aka DrCiber, etc, etc, to silence the conversation here, as part of the ‘Don’t listen to Guy McPherson’ campaign.

    Was it your intention to endorse that message ?

  • Robin Datta:

    Yeah.. I once whiled away a few hours building ‘civilisation’ in my head, starting with food, clothing and shelter, and thinking of all the specialised trades that needed to appear to satisfy those needs. Even without ‘culture’ or hierarchy or bureaucracy, I soon had a sort of proto-medieval society with about fifty trades, and I soon realised that they just breed more specialisations. All those specialists need to be fed, clothed and sheltered, each of them contributing a smaller, and, as civilisation complexifies, less understandable fraction of the labour needed to do it. You end up wondering how civilisation can function at all. It doesn’t seem possible. It’s surely unsustainable.


    Not knocking your troll-patrol, but IMO Noisy Falls has a point. Your 11.41 post implies that ‘awe’ and ‘silence’ are incompatible. If we are standing on the beach, chatting, and suddenly a mile-high tidal wave appears on the horizon, what happens to our chatter?

  • @ 18000days

    Readers may have missed Morocco Bama’s link to his comments on Rigorous Intuition where he quoted from comments on this site and said that none of us actually believed anything we said, because if we did we’d all be silent, etc.

    This is part of an ongoing strategy to undermine and disrupt this blog in any way possible.

    That said, your general point is perfectly valid. It’s not for me to say how anyone should respond to the prospect of NTE, or to the horrendous state of the world, is it.

    Some people want to give up and do nothing, some people talk about suicide, some say action is the remedy for despair, and so forth.

    The way I see it, this may go on for years and years and years. Nobody can tell. Each person has to come to terms with their own circumstances in their own way. Everybody has different beliefs, different belief systems, different surroundings, different neighbours and cultures, responsibilities.

    I mean, which of us would want the job of telling a little six year old girl that she had a terminal illness and will very soon die ? That’s the sort of grim sobering issue that we have to face up to, every day for the rest of our lives, and at the same time, what’s the point of being depressed and unhappy ?

    Each of us has to work through that in our own way, there is no neat or easy formula.

    Yes, I see that wave. I live in each moment. Each moment is exquisite. Unique. It will never return.

  • @ Samuel B. Eastman

    @ ulvfugl – From your past mentioned studies of Eastern philosophies I don’t think that any of this is going to greatly surprise you. I also think that you can probably figure out why I have in this instance decided to use another screen-name.

    Not exactly clear what point you are making. I really don’t care what belief system anyone chooses to hold to, it’s their personal business, isn’t it ? If it sustains them through adversity, and orientates them and gives some sense of place and meaning in all this vastness, then that’s what belief systems are meant to do, aren’t they, why we have them and other animals don’t need them.

    The only ones to fear and distrust are the ones that insist everyone else is wrong and everyone who isn’t one of them must be annihilated, like the Christian Dominionists, who believe they have a duty to convert every human or destroy the unbelievers, to bring on the Second Coming. I don’t see how they can be accommodated.

    Some of us like to pass them time trying to figure out how we ended up in this mess, and yes, I’d agree with you, that, amongst the many strands that can be traced back, the Abrahamic religions and science are very significant.

    We changed from hunting and gathering to cities and agriculture and then we found science and fossil fuels and capitalism and all these things and more have resulted in what we see happening.

    Yes, I’ve been studying all this stuff all my life. I follow a rather unusual belief, that is that, to be able to see clearly, one has to get free from all belief systems, all ideologies, all cultural conditioning.

    At the same time, one has to be able to live and operate within the world as it is, where other people are all fully embedded within their beliefs. This is tricky, it’s a skill, living in two worlds. Bit like working in the theatre, you know, you do the matinee, in the afternoon, a two hour show, you’re all made up, fully absorbed, playing a part, Hamlet, whatever, and then you’re out in the street with all the ordinary life of the city, people who’ve never been in a theatre, for a couple of hours, then it’s back for the evening show, put the make up back on…

    So, zen is a bit like that. The desert, where you go for solitude, God, the Peace That Passeth Understanding, and then back into the market, where there are preachers and police and thieves and whores and beggars and orphans and corpses and yapping dogs and all of that stuff.

    In buddhism, the contrast would be nirvana and samsara. My contention would be that those two wheels become one and the same. When you know what that means, there is nowhere further to go. For a human being, that is.

    This teaching I follow has it’s ancient roots, going back to earliest times in India, Persia, who knows where, and drawing from China, Japan, all sorts of wisdom traditions. But really none of that matters. The only part that matters is whether a person knows how to apply it, and the only time and place, is here and now, between one breath and another.

    If you don’t know how to do that, then, imho, all the teachings are pretty much worthless, just old texts. You have to do this with your whole being, physical body, breath, life energy, not just thought.

    There’s a good over-view of the esoteric side of taoism, as seen from the West in recent times, here.

  • HAHAHAHAHA! The world is ending, and now we’re supposed to feel uncertain or foolish or maybe overindulgent for needing to express our thoughts and feelings about that? What a crock! All my life I’ve had people attempt to use that tactic to silence me. Whether the subject is war, hunger, disease, exploitation, pollution, etc., someone always wants to try to explain why it’s bad form to discuss such and such.

    Now, here we are. We’ve all just set back and watched it all happen, all this time wasted. But, “SHUT UP! Don’t talk about that!” What happens next? Well, maybe you’ll find out here, dumbass.

  • Kirk Hamilton, I hear you on the whole “shut up” thing.

    Last time I posted, I was commenting on how environmentalists should have helped each other AT LEAST enough to counter the mass message that there isn’t even a problem (even if that means backing Al Gore temporarily), but nooooo, we had to be all prideful and “pure” about it. Only non-hypocrites, and only “pure environmentalists” need apply!

    That seems to be how the left functions IN GENERAL, actually.

    Let me tell you a secret about the right wing: they actually don’t like each other very much. Social conservatives (the family values and religious crowd, think Rick Santorum or Pat Robertson), libertarians (the free market anti-war personal freedom crowd, think John Taylor Gatto or Lew Rockwell), paleoconservatives (“old-school” conservatives, anti-immigration but also believe in manners and education, think Pat Buchanan or Fred Reed or George Will, though Will is more willing to hear from the left sometimes), and “hawk” conservatives (war-loving, want their country of choice to dominate the world, think George W. Bush or Rick Perry).

    These people don’t LIKE each other (the social conservatives think the libertarians are selfish brats, the libertarians hate the hawks because the hawks are war-mongers, the paleo-conservatives hate all of them because they think we took a wrong turn somewhere around the 19th or maybe even 16th centuries, etc.), so how is it they all manage to keep beating the left? Because ironically, despite their inability to compromise with the Left, they have a huge capacity for compromising with EACH OTHER, and they compromise around their mutual hatred of the Left.

    We leftists? We can’t do this. Feminists and people of color can’t work together against their mutual enemy, the Right, because they each think the other is in the way. Then there’s the folks who hate Muslim domination of girls so we should go to war with them, against the folks who hate American domination of the Middle East but they’re willing to accept girls having their clitorises cut off, etc.

    THIS is why we keep LOSING. We can’t get anything accomplished because the Right can unite against their mutual enemy, the Left, but each of us leftists think the OTHER is the enemy.

    Thoughts, anyone?

  • Cowgirl Apocalypse Haiku #82

    Nothing left to say.
    Nothing left to do or be.
    My revolution.

  • Did this idiot(Noisy Fall) just post that “we’ should not post? WTF?

  • for B9K9, where ever you are:

    Our Government Has Weaponized the Internet. Here’s How They Did It
    By Nicholas Weaver 11.13.13

    The internet backbone — the infrastructure of networks upon which internet traffic travels — went from being a passive infrastructure for communication to an active weapon for attacks.

    According to revelations about the QUANTUM program, the NSA can “shoot” (their words) an exploit at any target it desires as his or her traffic passes across the backbone. It appears that the NSA and GCHQ were the first to turn the internet backbone into a weapon; absent Snowdens of their own, other countries may do the same and then say, “It wasn’t us. And even if it was, you started it.”

    If the NSA can hack Petrobras, the Russians can justify attacking Exxon/Mobil. If GCHQ can hack Belgacom to enable covert wiretaps, France can do the same to AT&T. If the Canadians target the Brazilian Ministry of Mines and Energy, the Chinese can target the U.S. Department of the Interior. We now live in a world where, if we are lucky, our attackers may be every country our traffic passes through except our own.

    Which means the rest of us — and especially any company or individual whose operations are economically or politically significant — are now targets. All cleartext traffic is not just information being sent from sender to receiver, but is a possible attack vector.

    Here’s how it works. (read the rest)

  • @ Denise – “revolution” or “revelation”?

    @ Librarian

    You are absolutely correct as to the various factions that make up the Reagan Coalition. The Democrats haven’t had a coalition since the New Deal Coalition fell apart with the departure of the Southern Democrats, they have a bunch of people who are willing to vote the the perceived lesser of two evils.

    When you hear Republicans lament their need for “another Reagan”, that’s what they are talking about – someone who can effectively unite their coalition. Reagan himself would probably not be sufficiently pure to win a primary today.

    There were several factors holding the contentious factions of the Reagan Coalition together – hatred (not merely dislike) of the “Left” (not really left, but microscopically left of the extreme radical far right) was absolutely a factor, and encouraged by the talk radio/FOX television propaganda machine. But there were also other factors.

    Like deficit spending. Regardless of what candidates campaigned on, what actually happened was tax cuts for big business and the wealthy, deregulation, privatization, and war-war-war. Running deficits allowed the big money to be doled out to supporters and contributors and tax cuts to lots of people.

    The new huge deficits (which strangely only seem to be a problem when the Democrats are running things) and self-imposed limits on earmarks have lessened the ability to keep their side happy with government money.

    Hypocrisy seems to be a more devastating criticism on the left than on the right. One of Gingrich’s ex-wives wrote a book wherein she describes telling him off and him replying “nobody cares what I do, only what I say”. I attribute this to a Christian thing – everybody is a sinner (in deeds), what counts is repentance and publicly towing the “moral” line. You get caught with your hand in the cookie jar and you say the right things and you get to keep on telling other people how to live. Salvation through grace rather than deeds.

    The left is less impressed with this, thinking you shouldn’t be telling others how to live unless you are without sin and thus get to throw stones (is that New Testament or Old?).

    Back to the Republicans – Social Conservatives have been getting shafted by the business and war factions all along, and they seem to be getting tired of it. Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan. Demographics is dooming the Reagan Coalition, and without political power or money to hand out, it is increasingly hard to hold the factions together. Once they start to split apart they won’t be put back together again. We already see that in primary fights won by unelectable candidates.

    It’s going to take someone new on the Democratic side to unite the various friendly demographic groups into a new Coalition that can effectively govern. I don’t think her name is Clinton, she is just too far to the right for the young people/singles/secular/minorities/women who provide electoral victory if they are motivated to show up. Not that she won’t run this time or even win, but we won’t see her forming a new Coalition.

    Democrats have been in resistance mode for 30 years. When the whole government was handed to them in 2008 the really had no idea what to do with it.

    Republicans can’t govern (and if they do they make things worse), and Democrats won’t govern (and don’t have much of an idea what to do if they did).

    In the meantime the clock is ticking.

  • @Denise #82 Nice one. Here’s a Paul Reps message:


    a cup of

    green tea

    I stopped

    the war

  • Thanks, Librarian, you make perfect sense. I don’t have any ideas, except that you should simply keep saying this. More people than you think will hear you and spread the message. Whether it solves anything or not, it has a better chance than keeping silent.

  • Just watched Gasland 2 on HBO. And I’ll bet most of these “decent” Western, Pennsylvania (for chrissake! thought the East was more aware!), farm, veteran & “hardworking folks” were voting Repub and making fun of “tree-hugging hippies” throughout most of their adulthoods. So, doofuses — WHO was really on your side?

    As Ben Franklin put it, (paraphrase) “If we don’t hang together, we shall all hang separately.” That is the experience these people are having, as the power of the petro-gas oligarchies force them out of their homes, health and lives.

    Interesting bits showing the “counterinsurgency” consulting the companies brought in, gag-order settlements, the night-vision methane cameras, and, of course, the lighting the family’s well-pipe, almost as good as the ones in Siberia.

    Oh, and the corruption at the “top”, from Obama on down. Also, the protests, worldwide, that we’ve heard almost nothing about in general media.

    The awareness that we are all totally cooked is going to knit together from many directions, but probably very rapidly once it gets going. Hundredth Monkey style.

    I guess we might get a clue as to why we might be in someone’s crosshairs here; they really spare no expense once they buy a PR plan from the “perception management” types…

  • @ James,

    Thanks for your thoughts on a previous thread. In a more prosaic fashion, I’m struck by the different ways various animals perceive reality, none like the other, none like us. So none of these “realities” is the objectively correct one. To my mind, this makes reality “softer” (ever so slightly more malleable) than the MSO might consider it. :-)

  • It seems to me that as long as experts willfully ignore the “system causation factor” of the human population explosion, that is to say, the increasing food supply which is literally fueling the explosion, we will continue to see the promulgation of politically convenient thought and economically expedient policymaking. Science regarding ‘why the human population is exploding’ will continue to be denied and endless preternatural, ideologically-driven chatter about ‘what is happening’ will pass for a complete sharing of knowledge. We are in a sad state of affairs.

    Just for a moment, let us imagine that now we have all the greatest population experts speaking with one voice. They tell us that we are headed rapidly for 8 billion people on the surface of Earth, declining TFRs in many western European countries notwithstanding. When that number is reached in the foreseeable future, we will have too much food, too little water and clean air, and no decent environment to speak of. Pollution will be visible to all, everywhere. In the meantime many species of birds and wildlife will go extinct because of the destruction of their habitat from land clearance to grow more food to support an exploding human population. What is happening is made evident. Why this situation is occurring with a vengeance of our watch is avoided at all cost. All this is good, they say.

    All these top rank population experts, inside and outside the scientific community, then go on to say that in order to have more and more happy people we need more and more people who can be counted upon to increase the depletion and degradation that will rapidly subtract from the source of that happiness, our planetary home, until such time as Earth is no longer able to function as a source of happiness. More importantly, because we self-proclaimed experts are ‘free to know’ and then speak of what is determined by the powers that be to be best for the rest of us to know, some scientific research can be and will be denied. While these experts do not lie, they deliberately refuse to give voice to the whole of what is true to them, according to the lights and knowledge they possess. By their conscious silence, these experts will ensure that the unsustainable growth of the human species, the reckless depletion of resources and the irreversible degradation of ecology of the planet happens as soon and efficiently as possible. All this is good, they say, because we are making things better.

  • @All,
    This is all wonderful stuff you are sharing. Here’s something to consider.

    I have a regular Meetup to allow folks wrestling with NTE and Collapse adjustments to meet over a pot luck and know that they can express their worst (from the dominant narrative perspective) and be held and safe in their distress.

    We are about 3 to 7 who meet regularly, Second and Fourth Monday evenings from 6 til 8:30 CST or GM-6.

    Reading the longing expressed by Logspirit, K K, and others for realtime relating, I ask if I should include a conference call feature or teleconferencing (may as well utilize the tools available here at the End of Empire lol, for a good cause)?

    Sorry you will have to savor your own delicious concoctions. And we won’t be sitting around a fire on the Beach, But could be something…

    Any arrangements will need to be made off thread. I have had to chase off some folks who wanted to fix the problem – As F**king IF? So some screening and checking in on working assumptions about the future is unavoidable.(Yes, open to Us, and closed to Them! lol loudly)

    Mac in MN, wearing the Crown of Creation very uncomfortably!

  • I came to this conclusion Years ago when I first started reading about Global Warming…that is would just be Too Big to Handle.

  • Librarian: politics never works for the betterment of society as a whole (or always works for the powers that be) because someone always has to be special or exempted or “taken care of” or appeased or compromised with or dominated – there’s always an in group and everyone else. Sociopaths and psychopaths naturally rise to the top in these kind of situations and the limitations of humanity are legion. Thus, the clumsy, boorish, ignorant and careless history of our species. It’s also about population and diminishing resources in a confined space. It’s hard to believe we’re no more intelligent than yeast when it comes to this, but we’re living proof.

    Denise: i’m with you on the revolution.

  • “If given an hour to solve a problem, I would spend 55 minutes thinking about the nature of the problem and 5 minutes thinking about solutions.” – Albert Einstein

  • @ Mac in MN
    If the timing is right I’d try to participate in your meet-up group for a few minutes… depends on the quality of my connection at that moment. I use the net through a cell phone, it is unpredictable… and expensive for a guy who lives in a van on sporadic odd jobs. Stay warm.

    @ Belle Islander
    It seems to me that for most people, there is gradient between dreaming and waking, their ‘awake’ state isn’t simply on or off. Some probably never achieve complete wakefulness, nor vibrant dream states. Most seem a bit lost out there, muddling through on zombie auto pilot in the midst of the ‘civilized’ jungle, day and night. Actually, of course, I was being literary, not literal in my prior comment. And I did say: “It wasn’t just a dream.” Meanwhile, I have not even mastered sleep walking – I keep banging my head on the ceiling of this claustrophobic space, with very rude awakenings. Rock climbing and general environmental awareness are other activities which I don’t recommend during the soporific portion of the gradient, although few have pursued either one.


    Normalcy is the enemy of normalcy, but hardly anyone cares. Its normal. Those living in comfort are, for the most part, ignoring the sufferings in the Philippines after Typhoon Haiyan, the strongest storm that ever made landfall in human history, so far. The general thinking seems to be: “My omnipotent dog spelled backwards would never let anything like that happen to me.” Thus encouraged by the ceaseless beat of commercial propaganda, with an artificial flavor of privileged exceptionalism and a pinch of spicy racism thrown in, the comfortable high and dry squelch any passing thoughts of remorse or responsibility or threat. Some who lived through Hurricane Sandy or Katrina or other watery windy disasters may feel a personal connection, while the rest mostly think they are immune, if they think about it at all.

    Mass media blurring the sharpness of cause and effect seeds confusion, sows doubt, and aborts political resistance to anthropocentric environmental catastrophe. Not that resistance could be effective anymore… no such delusion harbored here. Most of us know that its just another news story in the recycling bin. Another layer of callousness applied. Another shiver of fear suppressed. As the masses drink bla bla beer and eat frozen pizza that tastes just like the cardboard box it came in, but looks worse… and cheer on for all that is normal in their lives. Fossil fools. Not many of them ever pet their cosmic dog in gushing appreciation about having a roof above their heads. But they sure try to kick it, when things leak. Oh that wily cosmic dog.

    Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t worship, and avoid kicking, dogs of any inversion. What is, is. Just sayin. Some got stuff (’cause they stole it fair and square), some don’t. And soon it will all be washed away. Naturally and unnaturally.

    As far as the politics of this thing… the system filters out anything that disagrees with it… that doesn’t support and benefit the powerful. It sniffs out the stuff it doesn’t like and blocks or destroys such irritants before they can alter its metabolism. The rich presume to have it all figured out – they have yachts that rise and fall with the tide – everything figured out and under control… except the untidy conundrum of human extinction. They come to think that sufficient wealth engenders invulnerability. Just a little more normalcy, a little more ‘civilized’ magic, and they’ll surely be safe. Some refuge, some self sufficient island, where they imagine they will be able to survive in continued comfort, after global environmental calamity. After extinction. Easy to see how being rich and comfortable would create a blind spot like that – or, perhaps, even they don’t think they’re human.

    Our conclusion is well justified. For the high crime of mass extinction, we shall become extinct. A balancing, a normalization – a suicide. We are the walking dead, having already drunk the poison, lingering dinosaurs out of our element, estranged from the Earth. These last few hours are the last opportunity to contemplate and comprehend our transgressions, before we cease. This forum is our obituary, our final epitaph. Appropriately carved into mere ether. We were only temporary. More ephemeral than the bubbles on a mountain stream or the mist from its falling waters.

  • The dog barks, while the dead sleep forever.

  • “Own body, family, house, job, grocery store (stores in general) and neighborhood.”

    From my observations in the U.S., the author missed the most important source of input for individuals’ perception: popular entertainment media including corporate television. I believe that dominance in people’s lives forms their worldview and elicits their consensual complicity in the capitalist catastrophe.

  • Here’s a list of some of the aliases…………

    + Reta Martin

  • @ logspirit

    For the high crime of mass extinction, we shall become extinct. A balancing, a normalization – a suicide. We are the walking dead, having already drunk the poison, lingering dinosaurs out of our element, estranged from the Earth.

    Assuredly some of the best writing to ever come out of a cellphone.

  • Don’t waste your time on Guy McPhony and his little entourage of sychophants

    This is actually useful:

  • Christy Ceraso has penned her first essay for this space. It’s here.

  • @logspirit
    I will keep folks updated about electronic access to the Meetup. I look forward to hearing from the farflung streaches of the Beach. Mac

  • @ logspirit – I have noticed many times before that you appear to be a remarkably gifted writer and a very fascinating thinker. And, I thank you for sharing that with me. It means much to me to be able to read about your particular view of things during these certainly very interesting times. Aren’t they grand? I woke-up this morning and unfortunately discovered that it was steadily raining outside. And, a little falling rain hadn’t used to seem like any big deal throughout most of my former life. But, now it usually also means that we’ll probably be having yet another high background-radiation day here. I have not yet become used to living amidst a world where it no longer feels actually safe to touch anything that might be located outside. In fact I’ll never be able to get used to that! So, it’s probably just as well that I can entertain few expectations of my being able to live in this place for very much longer. But, does that matter? I can in no way see myself wanting to remain within any world that I couldn’t at all times also full heartedly embrace and touch. Yes, it seems that I might just as well be presently locked-up within an endlessly drifting space capsule which is of course ultimately headed nowhere. So, in contrast to what I’m presently expecting here in respect to still more showers of highly radioactive rain, I most definitely hope that you are destined to have a very much better day. Best Wishes!