22 After

by Mark Thoma and Guy McPherson

There was great confusion when the United States fell. Many celebrated as the lights flickered and then blinked out. Most wandered aimlessly, unable to comprehend what had occurred. Shocked at the rapidity with which the stores were stripped bare, the few survivors nonetheless were able to keep their wits when others were blinded by normalcy bias.

Trucks, rail cars, and rivers stopped carrying food to the misinformed masses. The bizarre weather grew ever more chaotic. Every day was a struggle for survival. Mistrust was legitimately rampant.

There was no place to go and no means to travel far. Nearly everybody stayed in place despite the horrors: the smell of human corpses, the aching of unfed stomachs, the acrid taste of unclean water, the unending sights of collapse, the deafening silence a constant reminder of loneliness.

Humans are eminently adaptable. Only a few years after turning feral, the scattered survivors barely remembered the luxuries of the past. With little time for reminiscing, they muddled into the increasingly ambiguous and dangerous future. Furtive figures constantly flickered at the periphery of vision, a further reminder that loneliness was safer than most human interactions.

22 After is a reasoned depiction of our future. Set in the upper Midwestern United States, it presents a scenario grounded in realism. Mark Thoma wrote and is directing the film, and along with a full crew began production in early March. Guy McPherson is serving as an unpaid consultant. Please support this effort via indiegogo here and view the trailer below.

22 AFTER Trailer from mark thoma on Vimeo.

____________

Tuesday, 1 April 2014, 6:00 p.m. meet and greet, 7:00 p.m. presentation, Paul Henry’s Art Gallery, 416 Sibley Street, Hammond, Indiana

Wednesday, 9 April 2014, 6:00 p.m., location to be announced, Sudbury, Ontario, Canada, “Climate Chaos” (Facebook announcement and invitation)

Thursday, 10 April 2014, 12:00 noon, location to be announced, Sudbury, Ontario, Canada, “Responding to Climate Chaos” (Facebook announcement and invitation)

The Next Step: Living Courageously in a World of Transition, a 14-day seminar, 12-25 June 2014, Izabal, Guatemala, Central America.

____________

Going Dark is available from the publisher here, from Amazon here, from Amazon on Kindle here, from Barnes & Noble on Nook here, and as a Google e-book here. Going Dark was reviewed by Carolyn Baker at Speaking Truth to Power and by two dozen readers at Amazon.

Comments 101

  • From the comments to the preceding post:

    technology to travel in space for long distances already exists (i.e., no new technology need be invented).

    True. But if humans have to be on board, they might like to breathe, drink and eat. Packing oxygen, water and lunch for several million years (that’s what it will take to find a habitable earth-like exoplanet) is a fairly tall order. The alternative is a closed biosphere / ecosystem that includes the ladies & gents. On board the spacecraft. Functioning adequately for millions of years. With the umpteenth generation of the descendants of the original folks. Quite a bit of technology needed. Not rocket science but biological sciences including ecology. That last item is Dr. McPherson’s forte. New technology. Needs to be invented.

    From the professor of astrophysics, Tom Murphy’s blog, Do the Math:

    Why not Space?

    Few fictional doomsday scenarios address runaway climate change. 22 after might do it.

    However, I do not watch television or movies.

  • No Zombies? I say this somewhat tongue in cheek. My story of what is happening in the world is that we have unconsciously set ourselves up for a new change in human consciousness from the tension of humanity dying out or clinging stubbornly to the past (life is good, where is the mall). Carl Jung wrote extensively about the tension of the opposites or polarities creating psychological growth if one could see the poles or at least experience them somewhat and hold the tension (rather than letting our egos resolve and the suffering of it by choosing one side or the other) long enough for a creative/new story view to appear. Human psychological development has gone on because of this process. If it didn’t we would still be in participation mystique with nature. I’m not saying that we will go through to something new. We may all gradually perish or be in greatly diminished numbers. If it is the former then we didn’t come to something new if the latter it may mean that we may have despite the loss of our former civilization. I come from the camp of the creative third having suffered through, as we all must to grow internally, a dark night of the soul. This required that I see the deadly threads of our human civilization as manifesting from me and the stories of my culture (separation from nature, technology as the new Saviour, projecting spiritual values on money and goods). So this movie adds fuel to one of the poles of tension. Rather than falling in to the yes it is going to happen and that’s it folks, I suggest considering a less materialistic view of the world. Science is at its core materialistic and has desacralized nature. Consider if you would if everything is connected in a sacred manner and we feel that in our hearts and souls what that might mean. Fairy tale talk, fluff then one is still in thrall to one of the poles of how we explain the world. Now what does mean internally?

  • Got to say, I do not understand the purpose of introducing God, Abortion and Gays, into the discussion?

  • I think it’s realistic that at least one person out of 22 would be of an extremely religious persuasion and would blame the end of civilization on a vengeful god. Or am I wrong there?

  • @ Wren

    A few posts back you responded to my calling Martin out for his sexist comments by saying:

    “Re women on NBL – I am one who’s still here, having taken no offense at what? was said. But then I’m not at all focused on human gender issues.”

    Though I’ve already cut and paste several examples of Martins sexism, let’s focus on just two of the comments for right now.

    Here is what he said:

    “Whenever there is what is euphemistically called a frank exchange of views, someone has to go and parade with their nose in the air. Usually it’s a girl.”

    “I knew the “girl” thing would grate. Political correctness is a campaign against noticing. I notice what girls are inclined to do, and I say what I see.”

    Now, how and why you don’t consider those comments to be offensive to all “girls”, no less adult women is anyone’s guess. However, imagine Martin had said exactly the same thing, but lets replace “girls”, with “blacks” or “gays” or even “scientists” for that matter. Had he said that, Martin would have most likely been crucified in this space.

    The reason why I’m reposting this, is because I’m rather flummoxed as to why only Lidia and myself took offense to Martin’s comments.

    And one more thing, let us not conflate highly complex gender issues with run of the mill blatant sexism.

  • mark: yeah, i’m with you on that – their sadly irrelevant worldviews won’t do much to help them and give them little comfort once the collapse evolves to the state depicted in the trailer. However, this will hold for most everyone – those who believed in the “infallibility” of science (paralleling that of the Pope in Catholicism) and believers in government and law will also be disappointed at the human factor that caused all the misuse and abuse of our vaunted intellect. Turns out we were no better than the Petri dish studies of yeast and bacteria. In fact it’s far worse – we KNEW this and STILL couldn’t keep ourselves on the “right path” (which we lost long ago in our evolution).

    meanwhile we have, on the social scene:

    http://utopiathecollapse.com/2014/03/14/bank-run-begins-in-crimea-hundreds-line-up-to-pull-savings-out-of-banks/

    Bank run begins in Crimea: hundreds line up to pull savings out of banks

    March 2014 – SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine (AP) — Ukraine’s largest bank says customers in the nation’s Crimean Peninsula are lining up to withdraw cash from their accounts as the region occupied by Russian troops prepares for Sunday’s referendum on joining Russia. Lines of customers could be seen forming on Thursday outside Privat and other banks amid uncertainty over the peninsula’s future. Oleh Serha, a spokesman for Privat bank, said all banks in Crimea are struggling to deliver more cash to the region, where tensions are high between ethnic Russians and minority ethnic Ukrainians and Tartars. Serha said the bank has imposed a limit of 1,500 hryvna ($150) on daily withdrawals across all of Ukraine. Its government and Western nations have denounced the referendum as illegitimate and warned Russia against trying to annex Crimea.

    while here in the U.S. we have:

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/explosion-reminder-nycs-aging-infrastructure-22902709

    Explosion a Reminder of NYC’s Aging Infrastructure

    [begins]

    Even while the cause remains unknown, a deadly blast that leveled two buildings served by a 127-year-old gas main has provided a jarring reminder of just how old and vulnerable much of the infrastructure is in New York and many other cities nationwide.

    A detailed report issued only a day before Wednesday’s explosion in East Harlem estimates that $47 billion is needed for repairs and replacement over the next five years to spare New York from havoc.

    Nationally, the projected bill — for bridges, highways, mass transit and more — is almost incalculable. Just upgrading the nation’s water and wastewater systems is projected to cost between $3 trillion and $5 trillion over the next 20 years, according to the Competitive Enterprise Institute, a conservative Washington think tank.

    Politicians often shy away from blunt talk about infrastructure, but it was in the spotlight Thursday as investigators sought to determine how and why a suspected natural gas leak triggered the explosion, which destroyed two apartment buildings, killed at least eight people and injured more than 60.

    The gas pipe serving the building included a cast iron section dating from 1887, and a nearby water main was built in 1897. Federal investigators said the water main broke but it was unknown if that contributed to the gas explosion or was caused by it, and it was unknown whether the gas pipe played any role in the explosion. It was nonetheless upsetting for some New Yorkers to be reminded that Consolidated Edison, the natural gas supplier for East Harlem and much of the rest of the city, makes extensive use of 19th-century piping.

    “I can’t imagine how we can have pipes underground in New York that were put in there in the 1800s,” said U.S. Rep. Charles Rangel, a Democrat who represents Harlem in Congress. “You know we talk about infrastructure but the whole damn city is falling apart.”

    Mayor Bill de Blasio, who took office on. Jan. 1, says the burden lies with the federal government to provide more aid to U.S. cities for repair and replacement of aging infrastructure.

    “The broader infrastructure challenge is something we address every single day with the resources we have, but that is a tough battle considering we are not getting some of the support that we deserve,” he told reporters.

    Just Tuesday, a New York-based public policy think tank, the Center for an Urban Future, released a detailed report about New York’s infrastructure, saying it posed problems that “could wreak havoc on the city’s economy and quality of life” if left unchecked. It estimated that $47.3 billion would be needed over the next five years to make crucially needed repairs and replacements.
    [read the rest]

  • If a man opens his mouth, and a woman isn’t there to hear him, is he still wrong?”

  • @ D

    And one more thing, let us not conflate highly complex gender issues with run of the mill blatant sexism.

    And let’s not confuse either with your blatant trolling and baiting, designed to cause division and discord and disrupt this blog, eh D, aka Morocco Bama, Carol Newquist and 100 other fake names.

    You’re not ‘flummoxed’, you do this all the time, I’ve been reading your crap for years ever since you were thrown off Ian Welsh’s blog, and all your filth on Kunstler. ‘Get some Israelis over here’. You lie every time you type a word.

    If Wren or Lidia or others with integrity here take exception to comments they are quite capable of expressing their opinions, they don’t need a troll coming from nowhere to stir up shit.

  • @D

    I can say that you and Lidia were not the only ones to be offended by Martin’s comments. I was as well.

    All my life I’ve had to deal with people (both genders) who loved to throw words equating me with “behaving like a girl” when I display those attributes which they associate with the “weaker” sex. I find it similar to the use of “quitter” by others.

    My attempts in the past to engage people on these topics haven’t lead to much satisfaction so I’ve chosen to interact with Martin regarding the topic of Climate Change. Even on that topic and the issues raised by one Scott Johnson haven’t generated much discussion.

  • PMB

    I can say that you and Lidia were not the only ones to be offended by Martin’s comments. I was as well.

    I’m sorry to hear that. I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings.

    I’d like to ask: Isn’t it the case that what really bothered you about the Germany thing and that I dared to question Guy’s position, is that they are both instances of lèse-majesté?

  • Thanks for your help Guy. Look forward to seeing it.

    THE CRYSTAL BALL

    Even the official predictions intensify.

    United Nations Environment Programme (2009) +3.5°C by 2100
    Global Carbon Project, Copenhagen Diagnosis (2009) +6°C by 2100
    Hadley Centre for Meteorological Research (2009) +4°C by 2060
    United Nations Environment Programme (2010) up to +5°C by 2050
    THESE PREDICTIONS DO NOT INCLUDE FEEDBACK LOOPS.
    Feedback loops are not included in these official predictions because they are “too difficult” to model. So buckle up!

    Combine all this with the fact that we are entering the LARGEST and FASTEST mass extinction event in ALL of life’s 3½ billion year history. Ecologists believe that within 30-40 years, we could pass the ULTIMATE TIPPING POINT where ecological extinction collapse becomes IRREVERSIBLE and UNSTOPPABLE. What else is there to talk about?

    We kill 90 elephants each and every day. Elephants have developed a species specific warning call to alert others of their kind that “humans” are approaching. I literally cried when I read this. I have been morose for days now.

    We kill 2-3 rhinos each and every day because their horns are worth $20,000.00 per pound. This rhino keratin is shipped off to Asia, ground into powder and snorted up the noses of swingers in nightclubs. At least it’s not just for sport.

    Scientists = Economists: People who plug data points into irrelevant models.
    This is why Ben Bernanke was so clueless during the crash of ’08.
    This is why the IPCC is so myopically irrelevant.

    Here is why we don’t need to worry about rising seas and world temperatures.
    The Sixth Mass Extinction By The Numbers
    ► Lion populations down 90% in 20 years.
    ► 50% of Great Barrier Reef gone since 1985
    ► 50% of all Vertebrate Species may disappear before 2040.
    ► Big Ocean Fish populations down 90% since 1950.
    ► Fresh Water Fish populations down 50% since 1987,
    ► Land Animal populations down 28% since 1970.
    ► Marine Bird populations down 30% since 1995.
    ► All Marine Animal populations down 28% since 1970.
    ► Plankton populations down up to 40% since 1950.
    ► Species extinction is 1000 times faster than normal.
    ► Human sperm counts down 50% since 1950.
    ► Human population up to 9 billion by 2050.
    ► Ocean acidification to double by 2050, triple by 2100

    This is why ecological cascading extinction collapse will become unstoppable and irreversible in 30-40 years.

    GRATUITOUS 6TH MASS EXTINCTION LINKS
    A notable video is, The Call Of Life
    http://www.plosone.org/article
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
    http://www.npr.org/2014/02/12/
    http://www.smithsonianmag.com/
    http://bangkokpost.com/news/wo
    http://www.cultureunplugged.co
    http://www.google.ca/search?r

    Did you ever notice you cannot tell if a pet is really sick, until it is too late? That’s nature’s way because it deceives predators who are carefully studying the herd for signs of weakness. This is why ecological cascading extinction collapse is so unpredictable. We know in our hearts we are close, but our survival instincts do not allow us to dwell on our own mortality. Did you know there were still wooly mammoths when the great pyramids were built? I remember when the cod fishery collapsed out east in 1980, there was no warning. Over a few years, the catches dropped precipitously and then, WHAM!, they were gone. And, they ain’t coming back. Oh yeah, there’s still some out there, but not enough to rebuild their numbers.

    The web of interdependency of all earth’s creatures revolve around some very few Keystone, or Lynch Pin species. Phytoplankton and bees are just such a species. The point is that collapse doesn’t only happen when the last bee, or the last phytoplankton, go extinct. Such species are so important, they only have to become virtually extinct, below a certain threshold value, to be prevented from performing vital ecological services that sustain all life on earth. Nature is so good at hiding her weakness that, as predators, we cannot tell when this ecological tipping point will happen, until it’s too late.

    HOW TO SAVE EARTH

    When the oceans acidified 250 million years ago, they gave off hydrogen sulfide gas that helped to wipe out 95% of life on earth. We are acidifying oceans faster than then. When the asteroid hit earth 160 million years ago, it took 33,000 years for the dinosaurs to get wiped out after that event. We are on track to wipe out three-quarters of life on earth in 300 years — at most. While solar and wind power are good, we cannot afford the ecological cost of providing the whole world with that type of power. Too many rare earth and conflict minerals would be required. The cheapest and cleanest alternative is hydrogen.

    Dust off the old thinking hat, it’s time to get serious about where we stand regarding life, the universe and everything.

    In May of last year, researchers at Virginia Tech University discovered a way to produce hydrogen from any plant material at more than 100% efficiency. We can now produce hydrogen in more ways and more cheaply than ever before, and we’re just getting started.

    Honda and GM teamed up to develop a solar panel that electrifies water to produce hydrogen under high pressure. This eliminates the need for a compressor, making it cheap and easy to fuel a Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicle. It takes 8 straight hours of sunlight to drive 35 miles — for now. Imagine if you add wind power? It’s still early days yet.

    More importantly, it means you wake up in the morning and drive to town in your Ballard Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicle with only tiny water bubbles coming from your tailpipe. How good is that?

    Hydrogen fuel cell cars are twice as efficient, more reliable, safer and easier to maintain because they have fewer moving parts. They are much lighter and also don’t require huge banks of expensive, unreliable batteries. New carbon fiber tank technology makes hydrogen storage safer and cheaper than ever. Even dynamite and gunfire won’t easily damage them. Sound too good to be true? You betcha it is!

    Safe, Cheap, Plentiful
    The Hindenburg disaster unfairly gave hydrogen a bad name. When it burned down, the visible flames were from the diesel fuel and aluminum oxide coating ( later used for rocket fuel ) that covered the ship. Hydrogen is more explosive than it is flammable. That is why it is so great a fuel. If you have a hydrogen leak it shoots straight up into the sky at 45 miles per hour, with no harm to the atmosphere. You don’t need to pipeline hydrogen very far, because it can now be made everywhere. NASA has developed extensive experience in the safe and effective handling of hydrogen.

    Hydrogen is now easy, cheap, ultra-clean, plentiful and safe. It is no more dangerous than the natural gas system that surrounds you right now. Most people are not too afraid to use their barbecue. You can even cheaply and easily convert your current car to run with hydrogen, if you mix in a little flammable alcohol. Roy McAlister, of Nevada fame, has been burning hydrogen fuel in cars since the 1960s. He can tell you how.

    No Coincidence
    Last May, at the same time as the Virginia Tech discovery announcement, researchers at the Delft University of Technology have successfully stored nearly five percent of solar energy chemically in the form of hydrogen. This is a major feat as the design of the solar cell is very simple and cheap.

    Quote
    “Basically, we combined the best of both worlds,” explains Prof. Dr. Roel van de Krol, head of the HZB Institute for Solar Fuels: “We start with a chemically stable, low cost metal oxide, add a really good but simple silicon-based thin film solar cell, and – voilà – we’ve just created a cost-effective, highly stable, and highly efficient solar fuel device.”
    UnQuote

    What it Means
    Hydrogen is extraordinarily abundant in water. We will never run out. It is super clean, efficient and now cheap and easily accessible. We can create hydrogen gas directly from the sun. New fuel cell vehicles are being rushed to manufacturing by auto giants right now. We can even easily and cheaply convert our current automobiles to burn it right now. It’s all good, and we have to embrace the hydrogen economy right now to save life on earth. I’m not exaggerating.

    GRATUITOUS HYDROGEN LINKS:
    http://www.gizmag.com/honda-so
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v
    http://www.collective-evolutio
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/1013157
    http://www.knowledgepublicatio

    GREEN ENERGY IS ECOLOGICALLY UNSUSTAINABLE
    There is no easy answer. Lies = easy, Truth = hard.
    I’ll keep repeating myself as long as I read repeated lies.

    Upward Bound: Maintaining Our Collective Clunker


    http://dominion.mediacoop.ca/story/toyota-prius-not-so-green-after-all/20373
    https://e360.yale.edu/feature/a_scarcity_of_rare_metals_is_hindering_green_technologies/2711/
    http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/renewables/unclean-at-any-speed
    http://jmkorhonen.net/2013/11/29/graphic-of-the-week-the-hidden-fuels-of-renewable-energy/
    http://www.resilience.org/stories/2010-11-25/how-sustainable-renewable-energy

    http://ourfiniteworld.com/2014/01/21/ten-reasons-intermittent-renewables-wind-and-solar-pv-are-a-problem/
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/gallery/2014/feb/28/deforestation-of-kalimantan-rainforest-in-pictures
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2014/mar/14/uk-ban-maize-biogas

  • My latest essay for The Good Men Project is very brief. It’s here.

  • @ D
    I am in constant existential crisis guilt mode over being a member of the species at all, so it would take a lot to offend me as a human. Why do you want our energies spinning off in this direction? I choose not to buy into it.

    @ everyone else:
    The oh so lovely and soothing song about departed friends, Marvin Gaye and Jackie Wilson… The Night Shift by the Commodores:

  • My apologies to the author of the this post for temporarily hijacking the theme, we’ll get back around to NTE soon enough.

    However, in lieu of the fact, that NBL has seen a significant decrease of wise female voices over the last year and a half, in which many here have been lamenting for some time. I would feel I was doing a grave disservice to my own sense of humanity by not shedding light on the fact that a semi-regular commenter in this space, who goes by the name of Martin aka ‘little boy’, has made a series of blatant sexists comments that reveals a level of misogyny, or just extreme insecurity misdirected towards women that I believe cannot go without castigation if NBL hopes to retain its ethical integrity, which I very much hopes it does.

    I believe many of those who write and read in this space take great solace here, and I personally find Martins attitudes towards women to be utterly repugnant. As a fellow white male, I believe we are morally obligated to police ourselves against such overt prejudice when and wherever it raises its sad ugly head.

    I by no means desire to embroil NBL in what some might consider to be a disingenuous attack designed to needlessly derail the topic of NTE, and while Ulvfugl, Wren and Henry have foolishly hitched their wagons to Martins unapologetic sexism, all the while assuming I am someone I’m not–wherein providing us with yet another teachable moment–the truth is, I completely despise my fellow men who are so blinded by their own idiosyncratic insecurities that they are incapable of grasping the fact that “they” (men) have historically dominated (by force), virtually every aspect of society for thousands of years.

    So for my own sake of curiosity as much as a moral obligations, I will copy Martins comments below for all to read for themselves, so that those who contribute to this space, might gain a clear perspective as to where the majority of other commentator’s stand. From my end, this will not go beyond this thread.

    If this site has truly succumbed in becoming yet another patriarchal space of good ol’ boys where such offensive remarks magically “get a pass”, then that is something I believe should be brought fully into light. Yes?

    The least Martin should feel is shame for being so callously insensitive and emotionally immature. The intentional use of the word “girl” is meant to be deliberately demeaning in the context it was used……but how he then follows up in his bizarre defense, reveals something far more disturbing and tragically all too common especially here in the States.

    Please keep in mind the subtleties of Martin’s remarks speaks volumes as to the misogyny ingrained in our patriarchal culture that can very easily pass without our noticing it. As I mentioned to Wren, just substitute the word “girls” with “blacks”, “gays”, or “Mexicans”, or for that matter, anything that isn’t a seriously misguided white male, and the contrast between what is or isn’t considered to be politically correct, reveals a degree of systemic sexism far older than any latest political trend.

    From Martin mouth:

    “Whenever there is what is euphemistically called a frank exchange of views, someone has to go and parade with their nose in the air. Usually it’s a girl.”

    “I knew the “girl” thing would grate. Political correctness is a campaign against noticing. I notice what girls are inclined to do, and I say what I see.”

    “What girls are inclined to do is not look at you if you are a man. They are so good at this that it is positively eerie. If you are a man and you are walking behind a girl, the girl (or woman, if you prefer, and I expect you do) is inclined to pretend to find something of interest in a shop window, so that the man will pass by. If you should be walking behind a woman, she is inclined to cross the road so that she can dodge being looked at from behind.”

    “I have seen women give themselves neck strain in trying to not meet my gaze. I feel like blowing a raspberry at them to try to retrieve some of my dignity.”

    “And, perhaps (though I again risk being ridiculed for suggesting this), women’s way of treating men as though they don’t exist is a form of violence.”

    Now, I literally don’t know a single women who would not take serious offense to such sexist comments. Any first year student of Woman Studies could so thoroughly take Martin to the shed over such a small sample of commentary, we would almost feel sorry for him.

    So as to avoid any further obfuscation of ‘my’ intent, I will be explicit to my purpose for writing these words for everyone here to read. My only objective is to completely humiliate both Martin and anyone who comes to his defense based on what he has already clearly stated.

    And for those who seem hell bent on defending him, I’m still waiting for you to explain to everyone here, how little boy’s comments could be considered anything other than being deliberately degrading to our mothers, sisters, daughters, lovers, wives and friends.

    And one last thing, please don’t hide behind your own misanthropy of ALL humans as some strange justification to demean women.

  • As for me,I’m sick of sexism. I wear the pants in my family & I’m tired of my wife telling me which pair to put on.

  • @Martin.

    In a perfect world you would end up being overwhelmed by a mob of slow zombies (because you were too stupid to turn and run), forced to the ground, with zombies chewing on your arms, legs and face, where you get to watch your intestines ripped out and gnawed by the undead.

    YES! And I would be able to watch! Because THAT’S how I feel being overwhelmed by exposure to one of your weirdly self-centered posts! 🙁

  • Wren’s back! Yayyyyyyyyy!

  • Purposelessness

    Extinction’s one heck of a mess:
    Swaying others makes us digress,
    And why log each event?
    Now our time’s better spent
    Dealing with purposelessness.

    H/T: Kathy Cassandra

  • That’s a well-fed corpse. Not realistic.

    Gay marriages? Who fucking cares?

    Religious stupidity will play a huge role in the collapse (killing millions of fucking fools). No loss there. The death of religion will be a huge favor to all remaining (life, planet, Universe).

    I expect to kill a LOT of fundementalists in the days ahead (when things get bad). Many of us will be forced to do this in defense of our lives and religidiocy. Religious extremists will be are among the most dangerous vermin out there.

    By the way – I find this website “doomer central” (and absolutely pointless). Waste of diminishing time. Hand-holding posturing for doomer groupies. Which is why I’m not a member and never will be.

    So, when a movie is produced depicting collapse – what’s the point? Even more so, what’s the point on even focusing on collapse now? There is virtually nothing to be accomplished.

    No matter. This will be ignored, I’m sure.

  • I’ve seen no evidence to suggest D is Morocco Bama. The IP address doesn’t come close to matching the IP addresses used by Morocco Bama (and his many monikers).

  • Thanks Kirk.
    I’ve never left.
    For those of you who think your postings are not being responded to, I am here to tell you that after reading a few posts I have to walk away for awhile to process some of them. There is no comfort zone for us, knowing what we know.

    In my life, I have been gifted by time and circumstance, and I have strived to give something back. Like all of you, my heart is broken at the prospect of not being able to give back in a meaningful way because of all the damage wrought and the cascade of events in process that we now have no control over. The least we can do at this point is to try to prevent any more suffering of animals at the hands of our ‘fellow’ humans.

    At this point in my life, if I am diagnosed with something serious, I will seek only palliative treatment, sell all my possessions, and work at the elephant sanctuary in Tennessee until the end of my days.

    Re: 22 After, Best wishes in your production, but I was wondering who is your target audience? I was also puzzled by the fundamentalist slant included in the preview.

  • Well my thanks to those of you who hijacked this blog to rant about sexism.
    In response to you John,
    If there’s any chance for human long term survival it’s that a few truly rich, powerful or otherwise influential people wake up. Then something might get done. Granted that’s a really, really, really, really long shot but it seems to me to be the only one we have.
    So I kinda like doomer central.
    And as far as making a movie about collapse gets made, see preceeding paragraph.

  • Morocco Bama likes to use the word “disingenuous.” See lengthy comment above.

  • John says: “By the way – I find this website “doomer central” (and absolutely pointless). Waste of diminishing time. Hand-holding posturing for doomer groupies. Which is why I’m not a member and never will be.”

    Doomer Central

    Talking about how you feel
    Heretofore hasn’t held much appeal,
    But soon you may find
    Yourself changing your mind
    When you find out that doom’s really real.

  • BtD: B**M!

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/03/genius-erasmus.html

    The Genius of Erasmus

    Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus, who lived from October 27, 1466, to July 12, 1536, faced censorship in his day, and has never been as popular among the rich and powerful as has his contemporary Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli. But at a distance of half a millennium, we ought to be able to judge work on its merit — and we ought to have regular celebrations of Erasmus around the world. Some of his ideas are catching on. His name is familiar in Europe as that of the EU’s student exchange program, named in his honor. We ought perhaps to wonder what oddball ideas these days might catch on in the 2500s — if humanity is around then.

    In 1517, Erasmus wrote The Complaint of Peace, in which Peace, speaking in the first-person, complains about how humanity treats her. She claims to offer “the source of all human blessings” and to be scorned by people who “go in quest of evils infinite in number.”

    The Complaint is not a contemporary twenty-first century piece of thinking; its outdatedness in any number of areas is immediately obvious. But that’s to be expected in an essay written 500 years ago in Latin for a readership made up of what we would call creationists, astrologers, monarchists, and Eurocentric bigots.

    What ought to amaze us is the extent to which the Complaint does address the same troubles we face today and the same bad arguments used today in defense of wars. The Complaint offers rebuttals to such arguments that have never been surpassed. Its text could serve as the basis for dozens of important sermons were some preacher inclined to favor peace on earth.

    [please read the rest]

  • Capsicum chinense ‘Habanero’ was propagated by seed this afternoon along with Capsicum annuum var. annuum. ‘Cayenne’, Capsicum annuum ‘King Arthur’ and Capsicum annuum ‘King Of The North’ and placed into the growth chamber with a photoperiod of eighteen hours simulating tropical daylight under compact flurescent light (6500 K part of the spectrum – 26 watts per bulb) with a measure of at least eighteen thousand lumens covering approximately four square feet of surface growing area. The photoperiod will be adjusted downward to match exising daylength conditions as plants are removed from the growth chamber and allowed to gradually harden off to existing environmental conditions before being placed out in the garden row.

    Plant a tree this Spring. Better yet plant lots of trees.

    @Wren

    Great tune.

    In Nature nothing is wasted. So stop wasting it.

    H/T: ¿ WTF is this? NSA spook speak ¿

  • @John
    Although religiosity is on the decline, I believe it will make a strong come back in the not to distant future. As societies and their governments continue to unravel and go broke, people will look for hope and strength anywhere. Sky Daddy is very appealing to the hopeless. Of course you are right about the fundamentalists being “the most dangerous vermin out there” I can easily imagine thousands following some David Koresh types. It will be a join us or die deal. Anyone who thinks different has not spent any serious time around fundamentalists. I spent 7 years in Georgia and talked to many. There is research showing that superstition is on the rise and I believe these malleable people can be easily converted to warriors of Christ or other violent cults.

    http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/decline_in_belief_in_god_masks_rise_in_superstition#

  • Yep RD,

    I was going to post this:

    From the professor of astrophysics, Tom Murphy’s blog, Do the Math:

    Why not Space?

    But you beat me to it. Cheers

  • http://robinwestenra.blogspot.co.nz/2014/03/sea-level-rise-projections.html

    Sunday, 16 March 2014

    Sea level rise projections

    Scientists’ Concerns Challenge Conservative Sea-Level Rise Projections

    The most sobering evidence of the planet’s response to greenhouse gases comes from the fossil record. New evidence scientists are collecting suggests that ice sheets may be more vulnerable than previously believed, which has huge implications for sea level rise.

    [watch 6.5 min video]

  • http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2014/03/15/planet-shaken-by-spasm-of-moderate-earthquakes-over-last-24-hours/

    Planet shaken by spasm of moderate earthquakes over last 24 hours

    In the past 24 hours, the planet has been reeling from a series of moderate earthquakes that have erupted all across the Ring of Fire. The Ring of Fire is an area where a large number of earthquakes and volcanic eruptions occur in the basin of the Pacific Ocean. It is the most geologically-active region on the planet. In a nearly 40,000 km (25,000 mi) horseshoe shape, the region is associated with a nearly continuous series of oceanic trenches, volcanic arcs, and volcanic belts and/or plate movements. It has 452 volcanoes and is home to over 75% of the world’s active and dormant volcanoes. About 90% of the world’s earthquakes and 81% of the world’s largest earthquakes occur along the Ring of Fire. In the past 24 hours, double moderate earthquakes 5.3 and 5.6 magnitude earthquakes have struck Indonesia. A 5.4 magnitude earthquake struck NE of San Isidro Philippines. A 5.3 magnitude earthquake struck NE of the Iwo Jima Islands of Japan. A 6.1 magnitude earthquake struck South Central Peru. A 5.0 magnitude earthquake struck SE of Easter Island. A 5.4 magnitude earthquake struck SE Colombia. A 5.4 magnitude earthquake struck WSW of Santa Cruz, Chile. A 5.4 magnitude earthquake struck south of the continent of Africa. A 5.2 and 5.0 erupted along the Owen Fracture Zone, west of Africa. A 4.5 magnitude earthquake struck Greece. A 4.0 quake was reported NE of Xudat, Azerbaijan. And a 4.8 magnitude earthquake was reported ESE of Mohean, India. Tectonic plates across the globe are being perturbed by this latest burst of seismic activity which peaks around every spring equinox. People in high risk seismic regions should remain alert for the potential occurrence of large seismic events. –The Extinction Protocol

  • Apneaman Says: “Although religiosity is on the decline, I believe it will make a strong come back in the not to distant future.”

    Wow. In the US, religiosity has been growing in leaps and bounds along with the fascist driving it. It’s all the rage to speak about Jesus on the Senate floor while cutting food stamp programs. The so-called Tea Party is particularly religious in their trappings perhaps to help deflect their open hatred of anyone who isn’t rich. The attacks against Muslim countries is indeed a holy crusade… because that oil is our god-given right.

    And Mike Daniels says: “Consider if you would if everything is connected in a sacred manner and we feel that in our hearts and souls what that might mean.”

    It still means that food and shelter are required. Opening up to acknowledge the whole of the cosmos as part of oneself does not decrease the need to eat and stay warm and dry. Collapse knocks us off the pedestal of being “superior” back down to struggling for survival. Survival is not the same as living. Appreciating the whole wonders of nature might be more difficult if one is starving. Of course, starving to death might make spiritual awaking easier too. Not ready to find out just yet.

    Humans turn out to be the full definition of OMNIVORE. We really do eat everything, including the planet and ourselves. The feast continues.

    http://www.jabberwocky.com/carroll/walrus.html

  • Is the filmmaker’s name misspelled?

    ???
    http://www.google.com/search?q=mark+thoma

    ??

  • @Grant Schreiber
    There is a difference between a small but really fucking loud minority of sniveling, bitching, whining, moaning, infantile Christians and an actual increase in religiosity over all. The more you pay attention to them the louder they will get.

  • Hard to ignore “a small but really fucking loud minority of sniveling, bitching, whining, moaning, infantile Christians” that are running the country. I have to pay attention to them so I know where the jackboots are landing. Dismissing the tea party as a bunch of cranks allowed them to hold office. Be afraid, be very afraid.

    Any Dark Age is noted by a rise in fundamentalist religion, and it doesn’t matter what flavor that religion happens to be. The differences between the Taliban and the Tea Party are miniscule. It is not an accident that the loudest deniers are ‘men of faith’ nor should be be ignored that many members of the government are Doomsday Cult Christians who think in terms of End Times.

    We think in terms of end times as well, but without the hope for a heavenly reward — and better still the delight in knowing so many will be tossed into lakes of fire. But even a lower case atheist should find it troubling that Jesus has been transformed into a no-nonsense businessman with a profit plan for the Heavenly Bound. The Prince of Peace has long been a war profiteer, but now he’s shilling for Caesar full time. The worship of Mammon is not a good sign for anyone, anywhere. Know thy enemy. Amen.

  • A new report funded / supported by NASA indicates that “global industrial civilisation could collapse in coming decades due to unsustainable resource exploitation and increasingly unequal wealth distribution.”

    It goes on to say that the common “the sky is not falling” belief is the real fringe, the real controversial notion (Exploded Planet Hypothesis – 3).

  • The Fall of Tomorrow
    This is a piece I wrote for a novel I am began five years ago entitled The Fall of Tomorrow that takes place in 2022.
    http://sunweber.blogspot.com/2010/09/fall-of-tomorrow.html

    THE OAK

    September 29, 2022

    Dear Shirley,

    Hope this letter finds you. Okay poor joke. We have to laugh at the way things are these days. Or we . . . .
    To start over, hope all is well with you. Things here seem okay. Yet when you look back six months things are changed, always downhill. The idiots at Channel 5 are still hyping like they did ten years ago. Remember how we use to make fun of it. Now, it is so sad. Like their smiles and words could bring it all back.
    Hear tell, the side roads into the city can hardly be driven by the trucks. There were a few days when it was hard to get flour. My garden is just about done but feel lucky to get what I did out of it. The rain was so poor late in the season. It is crazy the way things have changed. Wet, wet, wet in the Spring and that hard drying the rest of the season. Got enough with some luck to make through the winter.
    Closed off the upstairs. Moved the bed down into the living room with the help of Mr. Solsom next door. He’s younger than I am by a few years but working at that factory, smelling those fumes has made it hard on him. I am surprise we were able to get in down with it and us in one piece.
    With the upstairs closed off and the little wood heater, I should be real cozy this year. I hope there’s no interruption in the gas this winter like last winter. I can cook on the wood heater but can’t bake anything when that happens.
    How’s the water down your way. They had us boiling ours in July. Some old manure tank up river collapsed for want of repairs. There was an unpleasant smell to it but boiling made it safe. What a bother. I wonder how many of those holding tanks there are that will give way.
    Can you remember when they use to have all those turkeys in big sheds, one on top of the other? Always reminded me of those big cities in Asia. Well, the plagues took care of those big cities. I count my blessings that it was so light up here.
    What confusion. People didn’t know which way to go. If you have no oil do you go south to avoid the winter and freezing. Of course, the temperatures down there were unbearable in the summer. By the time they figure that out they didn’t have the energy to move. Yes, literally and figuratively.
    The oak is dead.
    Bill loved that oak. I remember the day we planted it 50 years ago like it was yesterday.
    “This oak will grow and be beautiful just like us,” he had said. You know how he was. He use to love rake the leaves this time of year. Said it was a sign of more to come.
    Have you had any more of those terrible sand storms. For a few weeks this summer I thought the wind would never stop blowing. Had to cover the garden at night with whatever I could find to keep the moisture. Hard enough to water each plant by hand. I really miss the sprinkler. Just turn it on and leave it. These changes are so sad.
    I hate that the oak is dead. I wish it could have waited until after me. Losing Bill was so tough. Forty seven years together. He just couldn’t weather that damn flu. I’m afraid one of those winds will take the tree down. Lost one of the branches during that blow this summer. Will have to use it for heat this winter. I know I should be thankful that the oak is still giving to me. But it just hurts.
    How are your grandchildren? I know it is tough to lose Sammy and Tommy to the flu. I was so sorry for you. Are the other three doing okay? What a world we have given them. Could you have imagined all those years ago that this is how it would be? What dreams we had. That little child down the block, well, I guess she isn’t so little anymore, is doing fine. It is strange about children. They just adapt don’t they. Not as easy for us old birds.
    In many ways I am glad that Bill and I never could have children. For so many years that was so sad for us. But now, well, it certainly isn’t getting any easier out there.
    Did I tell you about the snakes? I know you are use to them but we never had anything like that up here. Only garter snakes and they are harmless. Well, the heat changed all that. They just slithered right up here following the temperature. Now I have to watch were I walk and be real careful in the garden.
    I wish the oak could have moved like the snakes. Did I tell you it was dead.

    Yours,

    Sylvia

  • Mark, I hope you don’t mind some criticism of your trailer but I’m only trying to help. I fully agree with the folks saying ‘woah there Nelly’ to the references on homosexuality and abortion. This is because there are hundreds of doomer-like, short, low budget videos on the web, especially UTube, that pretend to be factual but sooner or later begin to ask whether or not you’re saved or believe in Jesus as the savior. When that happens to me I immediately turn the video off and search for something more interesting to watch.

    I don’t think I’m alone when it comes to being offended by Xian behaviors that derive from their sense of superiority when it comes to pushing their faith. And I want to say that if I simply watched your trailer, in its present form, I would have no interest in the movie whatsoever. There is already way too much Xian claptrap out there contributing little more to our culture than giving a sound demonstration of how to be an inauthentic person.

    Unless you intend to market primarily to Xians, I highly suggest recalling all trailers immediately!

    I suggest that you either have the trailer devoid of faith-based references or, if you think such references are necessary, they should be balanced. You could maybe have a character refer to how their personal ‘faith’ has helped them cope. But, that would have to be balanced by characters possibly discussing a rumor that a cult has formed that claims authority, under God, to declare human flesh and blood the new sacrament and claim the power to consecrate it. They scout the country side searching for converts and those who refuse to partake of the New Sacrament are devoured by the faithful as sent by ‘Jesus’ to feed the flock.

    Mark, like I say, either play to the goodie-goodies, or leave people like me out of your audience. People like me and there are lots of us, are sick and tired of goodie-goodieism. Goodie-goodies are, as Alan Watts and Lao Tsu exclaimed, the thieves of virtue! They tout love but hate gays. They cry about abortion but do nothing to create a culture that expresses Reverence for Life! Your character in the trailer openly implied that simply referring to homosexuality or abortion in the goodie-goodie, Xian sense, automatically implies a higher moral grounding and this is actually seldom the case. This could be misconstrued as indicating an Xian basis for the theme of the entire plot of your movie.

  • John Weber (Sunweb)

    I liked it. Did you ever finish? Checked out your website. Much to offer. Thanks.

  • @KirkHamilton
    Maybe I interpret things differently, but I took the inclusion in Mark’s trailer, of homophobia, religiosity and the like as showing us that in the end, those few stragglers might not all be “aware, awake, and openminded”.

    Taking it a step further, I think back to a line from Theo Colburn’s book, OUR STOLEN FUTURE, in which she says, “there may be fates that await humans that are worse than extinction.”

  • @ilinda. I agree, in fact I had thought of your aspect of it. I had considered the idea that Mark had simply believed that a lot of people would be talking just like that lady in the trailer and her dialog was as normal as can be. If so, he was correct and I think so too.

    The main idea behind my post was more directed at trying to help Mark avoid what I saw as a marketing blunder. A lot of aware individuals are automatically repelled by even the hint of contemporary Xian preaching. And I admit, I threw in a lot of unnecessary bells and whistles.

    Thanks for the tip regarding, Stolen Future!! Sounds like the perfect read for while our home is in ‘flames’.

  • @ilinda

    “there may be fates that await humans that are worse than extinction.”

    Yes! There are many fates worse than extinction, so, I’m happy to witness the extinction, then, I will be at peace, and, for once in history, the real bad people will be crushed too. Not just the just!

  • Latest Collapse Cafe chat on the Doom brewing in Ukraine.

    RE

  • Well I can tell you that without a doubt the script of this movie doesn’t give the irrational or the superstitious anything more than a very critical look at their beliefs and how that turned out in the end. And as far as marketing goes I’m gonna try to let the ‘buzz’ do a lot. I would guess that buzz might be pretty negative from the right side of the isle, or emanating from the pulpit. My dad was pretty religious…okay he was crazy religious…and he would have walked out of any theater playing this movie.
    I can also tell you that the acting at this point is far better than I could have hoped for.
    I’m told by a few people that ‘oh, this movie has been done before’ but when I ask ‘really, what was the title of THAT movie?’ I always get the same response, ‘I forget the title, but I know I’ve seen it already.’
    Well I have a surprise for those people, it hasn’t been done before, at not like this.
    And I think my biggest hurdle will be that it’s awfully hard to watch any movie that deals with a topic of this enormity with your head buried in the sand (or up your butt).

  • Grant Schreiber
    I live in Canada Grant, so I guess the fundies seem distant to me, but I can see Ted Cruz bringing them to the new promised land formerly known as,Dirty socialists Canada, in the not to distant future. Manifest destiny 2.0 climate change exodus. Our fundamentalists prime minister, is so boring and droid like that hardly anyone pays attention to him, but he is just as dangerous. Overall, I do not think politics can change anything at this point. When enough people have no food it won’t matter who is in charge. Duck & Cover.

  • And by the way for an up-to-the-minute look at what’s happening with the movie, progress, stage of completion, etc. just check out the
    22AFTER Facebook page.
    And by the way have any of you checked out the Indiegogo link?
    I’m doing this entire thing on my own nickle at this point which is just a few cents more than a nickle but costs do mount up. So any financial help is GREATLY APPRECIATED.
    The most I can really ask of anyone is spread the word. Talk the movie up on your own Facebook page, Tweet about the movie, talk with complete strangers about it in coffee shops and bars.
    By the way (and I’ve already talked with Guy about this as some length) I’m going to donate 50% of the net proceeds of the film to a non-profit of his choice for the specific purpose of environmental degradation education. I plan on selling the movie for $5 thru the web site and after I subtract the 12% that would go to Vimeo and Paypal that would mean $4.40 cents would get split evenly between myself and Guy’s non-profit of choice.
    So if that seems fair to you (and it might not seem fair to everyone) talk up the movie, talk up the crowdfunding effort, and talk up the Facebook page.
    thanks

  • Warming melts last stable edge of Greenland icesheet

    The last edge of the Greenland ice sheet that had resisted global warming has now become unstable, adding billions of tonnes of meltwater to rising seas. … (click the title for the article)

  • So many collapse articles are appearing now that I can’t keep up with, so I’m just going to start listing them below.

    http://energyskeptic.com/2014/collapse-articles-by-many-experts/

  • Latest Daily Rant on the Crimean Referendum

    RE

  • Fukushishabob Batman,

    seems like the fungi, and micro-organisms were also affected by Chernobyl…

    ‘Forests Around Chernobyl not decaying properly’

    http://robinwestenra.blogspot.co.nz/2014_03_01_archive.html

    “It wasn’t just people, animals and trees that were affected by radiation exposure at Chernobyl, but also the decomposers: insects, microbes, and fungi.
    Nearly 30 years have passed since the Chernobyl plant exploded and caused an unprecedented nuclear disaster. The effects of that catastrophe, however, are still felt today. Although no people live in the extensive exclusion zones around the epicenter, animals and plants still show signs of radiation poisoning…..
    However, there are even more fundamental issues going on in the environment. According to a new study published in Oecologia, decomposers—organisms such as microbes, fungi and some types of insects that drive the process of decay—have also suffered from the contamination. These creatures are responsible for an essential component of any ecosystem: recycling organic matter back into the soil. Issues with such a basic-level process, the authors of the study think, could have compounding effects for the entire ecosystem.

    The team decided to investigate this question in part because of a peculiar field observation. “We have conducted research in Chernobyl since 1991 and have noticed a significant accumulation of litter over time,” the write. Moreover, trees in the infamous Red Forest—an area where all of the pine trees turned a reddish color and then died shortly after the accident—did not seem to be decaying, even 15 to 20 years after the meltdown.”

    That’s how to keep the carbon out of the atmosphere !! Stop the rot with radiation.
    Now it all becomes clear…. 🙁

  • http://phys.org/news/2014-03-climate-crop-yields-sooner-thought.html

    Climate change will reduce crop yields sooner than we thought

    A study led by the University of Leeds has shown that global warming of only 2°C will be detrimental to crops in temperate and tropical regions, with reduced yields from the 2030s onwards.

    Professor Andy Challinor, from the School of Earth and Environment at the University of Leeds and lead author of the study, said: “Our research shows that crop yields will be negatively affected by climate change much earlier than expected.”

    “Furthermore, the impact of climate change on crops will vary both from year-to-year and from place-to-place – with the variability becoming greater as the weather becomes increasingly erratic.”

    The study, published today by the journal Nature Climate Change, feeds directly into the Working Group II report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Fifth Assessment Report, which is due to be published at the end of March 2014.

    [read the rest]

    Once again, this paper ONLY talks about temperature and doesn’t include many other factors (like feedbacks, the erratic and unpredictable new normal of variation, lack of pollinators, etc) so I think they’re off by quite a bit. In a recent Radio Ecoshock show we hear that we’re already in dire straits, according to Dr. Michael Jennings

    [audio src="http://www.ecoshock.org/downloads/climate2014/ES_Jennings.mp3" /]

    _______________

    Here’s some eye-opening documentation that we’re being mislead by our government(s, worldwide):

    http://robinwestenra.blogspot.co.nz/2014/03/fukushima-foia-documents.html

    Nuclear regulators misled the media after Fukushima, emails show

    Emails obtained by journalists at NBC News reveal that officials at the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission — the government agency that oversees reactor safety and security — purposely misled the media after the Fukushima, Japan disaster in 2011.

    On Monday this week — one day shy of the third anniversary of the Fukushima meltdown — NBC published emails obtained through a Freedom of Information Act that for the first time exposes on a major scale the efforts that NRC officials undertook in order to diminish the severity of the event in the hours and days after it began to unfold.

    “In the tense days after a powerful earthquake and tsunami crippled the Fukushima Daiichi power plant in Japan on March 11, 2011, staff at the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission made a concerted effort to play down the risk of earthquakes and tsunamis to America’s aging nuclear plants,” Bill Dedman wrote for NBC.

    Through the course of analyzing thousands of internal NRC emails, Dedman and company unearthed evidence that proves nuclear regulators went to great lengths to keep the scary facts about the Fukushima meltdown from being brought into the public eye.

    Even when the international media was eager to learn the facts about the Fukushima tragedy while the matter was still developing, emails suggest that the NRC’s public relations wing worked hard to have employees stick to talking points that ignored the actual severity of the meltdown.

    “While we know more than these say,” a PR manager wrote in one email to his colleagues, “we’re sticking to this story for now.”

    That story, Dedman wrote, was filled with “numerous examples…of apparent misdirection or concealment” waged by the NRC in an attempt to keep the true nature of the meltdown hidden, especially as concerns grew that a similar event could occur on American soil.

    “The talking points written during the emergency for NRC commissioners and other officials were divided into two sections: ‘public answer’ and ‘additional technical, non-public information,’” Dedman wrote. “Often the two parts didn’t quite match.”

    According to NBC, emails indicate that the NRC insisted on sticking to talking points that painted a much different picture than what was really happening three years ago this week. Japanese engineers employed by the NRC at American facilities were effectively barred from making any comments to the media, some emails suggest, and at other times those regulators rallied employees at the NRC to keep from making any comment that could be used to disclose the detrimental safety standards in place at American facilities.
    [read the rest]

  • first comment of the day is in limbo, but here’s another:

    http://robinwestenra.blogspot.co.nz/2014/03/bp-back-in-gulf.html

    Monday, 17 March 2014

    BP back in the Gulf

    Four Years After Deepwater Horizon Disaster, U.S. Agrees To Let BP Oil Rigs Back Into The Gulf

    Get ready, Gulf: BP is back.

    The U.S. government on Thursday announced that it will lift the ban that prevented BP from seeking new oil leases in the Gulf of Mexico, ending a lawsuit filed by the British oil company that said it was being unfairly punished for its disastrous 2010 Deepwater Horizon oil spill. The announcement comes nearly four years after the Deepwater explosion, which killed 11 crewmen and resulted in the largest offshore oil spill in U.S. history. [read the rest]

    “What could go wrong?” (United States of Amnesia)

  • What’s next? Calvinists offended when you mention Jesus? Well, at least this time it isn’t what The Week calls “outrage porn.”

  • Apneaman Says: “Overall, I do not think politics can change anything at this point. When enough people have no food it won’t matter who is in charge. Duck & Cover.”

    While that’s true, it does matter what type of government you have as items like food and water become increasingly hard to come by. The whole of North America is rapidly approaching the point where anyone without money will be considered “non-essential” marched into camps and shot. I’d much rather not have to worry about death squads and suicide camps atop of everything else. The Pentagon is already arming the Mexican border and is very quietly setting up drone flights along the Canadian border. This is to prevent starving masses from entering from the South and to prepare to seize farmland in the North. The Pentagon strongly believes in global warming and they are looking for military solutions to it. A completely ineffective government would be a better choice than one dedicated to keeping rich fucks alive.

  • Mark, good luck with your project and thanks for the response. And I want to say that I am now looking forward to the show. Anything that can help us to awaken our imaginations as to what to expect is much needed. I feel really sorry for people who will have made no preparations at all.

    I enjoyed reading, The Oak, John Weber. Appropriately bleak. Kind of reminded me of, The Road. Keep up the good work!

  • The End of Suffering

    It’s becoming convincingly clear
    That the end of our suffering’s near:
    Soon hardly a trace
    Will remain of our race
    ‘Cause we’re leaving, and won’t reappear.

  • Thanks Kirk,
    And thanks for the donation. I’ve talked with quite a few people about this project now and am constantly surprised by the percentage that say “if that happens I’ll just kill myself”. I guess I expected far more to say, “oh that’s just stupid, that would never happen.” But what I’m hearing is complete acknowledgement that the premise of the movie is entirely possible, at least from those I’m talking with.
    My challenge of course is that once the film is finished to get it to as wide an audience as possible. Any help from anyone in that regard will be vastly appreciated.

  • @Ben the D

    Perfect!

  • Wish I had this clip earlier, but we just finished filming it yesterday. But I’m hoping the script gives accurate representation for all points of view among survivors at the end of civilization. So tell me what you think.

    http://www.vimeo.com/89344824

    the password is: sociopath

  • Mark and Guy,
    I will be waiting for the final ’22 after’ avidly. best wishes for finishing the cut. I will send some $upport soon. Not much but hey…
    You all my want to know of a film coming out here in a few weeks.

    ‘John Pilger’s Utopia: watch the world exclusive trailer – video’

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/video/2013/oct/22/john-pilger-utopia-watch-trailer-video

    The horrific story of indigenous slave labour concentration camps here in Afraidia, (back then). I don’t think John Pilger is an indigenous man, but he interviews plenty of older men and women who have such ancestry, and their stories are truly devastating.

    My own life was and is influenced in recent years by becoming aware of this ‘Dirty History’.

    Given the film above, I think it will be the indigenous peoples of the world who show the way to any future in the short term.
    Just sayin…

  • Mark,
    the Sociopath short is good !

    Can’t wait for more. 🙁

  • @Grant Schreiber
    Doesn’t look good for me Grant. Due to circumstances beyond my control, I have to move from this small town in central British Columbia to Vancouver next month. I have no money left and there is no employment here. I am most definitely one of the “non-essential” since I am no longer physically capable of working as a tradesman anymore. I was on the tools most of my working life (if it’s broken I can fix it) but now I can hardly stay on my feet for more than a couple of hours. I’ll be alright/survive until the next economic crash (next week or next year?) then I’ll do what I got to do. As we all will.

  • The scariest videos I ever saw was was methane bubbling up from the California seabed near Santa Barbara & another north of the arctic circle where people poked a hole in the ice above a lake & set fire to the methane that had bubbled up under the ice waiting for the spring thaw to free it.
    All over the world, methane has become unstable due to global warming & is the sign of an unstoppable runaway green house.

    NASA says we could see the collapse of civilization in about 15 years.

    Can anyone measure the level of our STUPIDITY?

    We had to have known decades ago that exponential growth on a finite planet would not be sustainable no matter how “clever” our technology & allowing ourselves to become totally dependent upon a temporary fossil resources is the height of stupidity.

    A world full of ignorant “believers” in ancient superstitions cannot make intelligent decisions when they vote.

    Now all of us & most living things will pay the price of that short sightedness, greed, stupidity & ignorance.

    The only planet known that evolved life could return to a lifeless rock like so many others.

  • “The only planet known that evolved life could return to a lifeless rock like so many others.” -SC

    That has always been inevitable. It’s just a timeline issue.

    RE

  • I cross posted “22 After” on the Diner.

    RE

  • Not to spoil a good film in the making, but didn’t Roland “Master of Disaster” Emmerich already cover the Climate Change Disaster Movie idea with “The Day After Tomorrow”?

    How about “Children of Men” and “The Road”?

    I don’t see a big difference here, just lower budget for CGI.

    RE

  • Mark Thoma said that a number of scientists, last year, said that all the data suggest that climate is now in a runaway state, with uninhabitable temperatures likely by mid century. Can anyone point to those scientists and where they said it? Someone commenting here mentioned NASA suggesting collapse within 15 years. Is there a link to that?

    Thanks.

  • https://robertscribbler.com/2014/03/17/nature-human-warming-now-pushing-entire-greenland-ice-sheet-into-the-ocean/

    Nature: Human Warming Now Pushing Entire Greenland Ice Sheet into the Ocean

    Greenland — a vast store of ice three kilometers tall at its center and the final remnant of the Northern Hemisphere’s great glaciers of the last ice age has now begun what is likely an unstoppable rush to the sea. For according to a new report in Nature Climate Change, the last stable region of glacial ice along the Greenland coastline is now accelerating through one of the ice sheet’s largest and deepest outlets — the Zachariae Ice Stream.

    Zachariae, the last domino to fall

    The Zachariae Ice Stream is a vast river of ice in the northeast section of Greenland. It terminates in two outlets through a broad and deep ice-choked bay facing the Fram Strait.

    Throughout the 1990s and into the early 2000s, both warmer air and ocean water temperatures at the margins of Greenland began to speed up and destabilize glaciers all along Greenland’s southern, eastern and western coasts. But the northern glaciers remained relatively stalwart, continuing the rate of seaward motion observed over previous decades.

    Then, starting in 2003, something ominous began to happen. A combination of sea ice loss, warming air and ocean temperatures began to affect the northern edge of the great ice sheet. Its speed of forward motion through its outlet bays began to increase. By 2012, the great glaciers were dumping 10 billion tons, or roughly ten cubic kilometers of ice into the ocean every single year. In just nine years the Zachariae Ice Stream had retreated a total of 20 kilometers toward the heart of Greenland. By comparison, the Jakobshavn Ice Stream, known to be Greenland’s fastest and located in South Greenland, has retreated 35 kilometers over the past 150 years.

    [concludes]

    Today’s pace of sea level rise is currently 3.2 millimeters each year or a little more than a foot each century. Of this total, fully 1/6th is now being contributed by Greenland. But with inertia and gravitational forces now taking hold as massive ice sheets destabilize, and with human-caused warming continuing to ramp up, it is likely that we can expect both the Greenland ice sheet’s contribution and the pace of sea level rise to rapidly accelerate.

    As the great ice sheets sped toward the oceans at the end of the last ice age, the pace of sea level rise hit as high as 10 feet each century. With the pace of human warming now about 30 times faster than at the last ice age’s fall, we may well eventually witness something even outside this difficult to understand context.

    Even more ominous is the fact that greenhouse gas forcing levels that are enough to destabilize and then melt all the world’s ice sheets, eventually raising seas by about 250 feet, arrive as soon as the next few decades once CO2 (or equivalent) forcing levels hit between 500 and 600 parts per million value. The current rate of emission gets us there within about 20 years. But, unfortunately, that rate of emission is still rising even as amplifying feedbacks from terrestrial carbon stores in both the Arctic and the tropics loom.

    In essence, it looks more and more, from the point of ice sheet stability, like we’ve probably at least locked in a Heinrich type event and will be well on our way to initiating total ice sheet loss over the coming two decades.

  • I’ve posted a new essay from Carolyn Baker. It’s here.

  • Mark! That dialog on psychopaths really grabbed me! Ever since I learned what a psychopath is I’ve been wanting to get the rest of the world to see them too. I really like the idea that you’re maybe going to say a lot of the things for us, publically, that many of us have been wanting to say for a long time but have been forever shut down. KUDOS to you, friend, for your efforts!

    The only change I would have made would have been a whole LOT of cussing and swearing, pissing and moaning!

    Another reason I’m behind your flic is that I want the word OUT on NTE! To the masses; big time GROKKAMUNDO NOW for the goddamn stupid dumb-fucks! I want to see them suffer the Truth as much as I want to see the whole mess over with and all of us become dust in the wind! (well, I’ll never get to see the ‘dust’ part because I’ll be dust too, but I can hope, can’t I?)

    Like I like to say: We don’t deserve to exist. Too much unnecessary suffering on our watch. Most of like to mumble our prayers with Satan’s cock in our mouths. Well, we do take it out every once in awhile, so we can eat the shit the psychopaths feed us.

    I know lots of old farts, who I’d like to see grok-smacked right upside the head with the knowledge of how useless, pointless and destructive their lives have been. Loads of the sacks of shit croak every day. I want them to leave for heaven with a great big grok-dick up their ass!

    @Shep, hang in there, it’ll be over soon.

    @Tony, your unwillingness to do your own research is only exceeded by your unwillingness to simply scroll back and find the name of the person who posted the NASA referral. Grow Up!

  • RE notes: “Not to spoil a good film in the making, but didn’t Roland “Master of Disaster” Emmerich already cover the Climate Change Disaster Movie idea with “The Day After Tomorrow”?”

    And in fact, The Day After Tomorrow was so incredible, why is anyone making any movies anymore? It’s been done. It’s over. Move on, people. Sheesh. As if anything anywhere could come close to topping The Day After Tomorrow. Shame on you for even trying.

  • Come on, RE, you usually make more sense than THAT. That’s like saying that no more westerns should have been made after High Noon.

    We never would have had Unforgiven.

    I loved westerns, but disaster movies or more especially, END TIME movies are the new western. Common folk, living by the skin of their teeth and dying in god-forsaken shitholes.

  • Why make this movie after “The Day After Tomorrow”? You’re joking right? I’m trying to make a realistic portrayal of what it might look like when the grid goes down. The only way I can do that without several tens of millions of dollars of Hollywood money attached is by having survivors describe it. Three advantages as I see it…
    First, no strings attached, so near total artistic freedom to speak the truth. Hollywood would never let characters rant about the stupidity of hoping sky god would deliver humans from extinction. And a few of my survivors have a not very sympathetic view of religious faith and how that all worked out.
    Second, the survivors recollections/memories of what the first few days/months were like don’t let the viewer off the hook like “The Day After Tomorrow” did when it pegged the unbelievability meter. Most of the people I know who saw that film said, “Oh sure. Well it’s Hollywood, what did you expect?” I want something much darker and more disturbing. I want to motivate people to tell their friends, “I just saw the scariest fucking movie I’ve ever seen, and if it’s true we’re all fucked, and it sounds like it might be coming true!” I want the media to do stories about the buzz the movie is creating and how it can’t possibly come true. Maybe given the cover of the movie a few more scientists would develop enough backbone to say “It is true and the fuckers who say it isn’t are lying to you!”
    Third, the ability to use really good actors nobody has ever seen before. That would also let the viewer off the hook. I don’t want to do that.

    For those of you who are still following this thread here’s one more teaser, enjoy: https://vimeo.com/89312150
    password is: sosad

  • You have to have a grasp of my sense of humor, which about nobody here does, so this stuff goes over like a lead balloon here just about all the time. LOL.

    It’s tongue-in-cheek of course, since you are clearly trying to make a more realistic “docu-drama” style film, not a CGI loaded disaster film. Which is worthwhile to do, except I am not sure you clarify what is fact versus what is speculation at this point.

    For instance, the examples of “Interviews” all seem to be with people living in currently industrialized countries who will experience this in one way, whereas numerous people living currently in Amazonia, the Kalahari Desert, and up in subsistence communities in Nunavut will experience it entirely differently. It will even be different for folks who live in the bush here in Alaska.

    Also fairly well known at this point is that there are quite a few Underground Bunkers sprinkled around to house up to thousands, complete with stored food, water purifiers, air filters, micro-nuke power, indoor hydroponics and grow systems that probably can make a minimum 50 years without even coming up for air.

    Then there is the question of whether ALL life is extinguished, or as in all the previous 5 Mass Extinction Events a percentage of organisms from various phyla made it through. This includes the PETM, where average temps were around 12C above current baseline and CO2 in the 1000 PPM range.

    IMHO, if you are going to make a Docu-drama you have to consider the possibility that some types of life will survive, and possibly some Homo Sapiens also. There is no absolute PROOF that every last living organism will die here in this one, it didn’t happen in the last 5 of them anyhow.

    RE

  • Kirk,

    I was aware of the NASA backed study but it doesn’t say that civilisation will collapse in 15 years. I thought there must be another story.

    I do keep up with climate change science but haven’t seen “a number of scientists” say last year that the earth will become uninhabitable within a few decades. I was looking for a link to that idea, in particular. I was hoping Mark might point me at something.

    Despite what you may think of me, I do genuinely seek information on our predicament and I’m not a techno-optimist or a climate change denier. Climate change is the biggest challenge this world (all of it) faces. If the world is essentially going to end within my lifetime and my kids’ lifetimes, I want to know about it. As RE has indicated, though, there is no proof that this is the extinction to end all extinctions and will be complete within a few decades. Again, this isn’t to say that the future will be rosy; it will be anything but.

  • @ Tony Weddle

    …there is no proof that…

    There is no proof that you will die.

  • “There is no proof that you will die.”-UF

    Obviously wrong. There is proof Tony will die, because EVERYBODY dies. Nobody gets out alive, EVER.

    It is just a question of TIMELINE on Tony’s Death, which could come tomorrow if he gets hit by a bus, could come in a couple of years if he can’t get enough food to eat, but WTF knows here precisely how long Tony’s lifespan will be? Nobody does, and to say you do and say he will CERTAINLY die inside the next 20-30 years is patantly ridiculous and hubris of the first order. For all you know, Tony has 50 years worth of food and water stored up under his McMansion!

    The ONLY thing we can be certain of right now is that things will get WORSE before they get better, if they ever do. In the meantime, you can either QUIT, or follow the directive of Illuminati Scumbag Winston Churchill.

    “If you are going through Hell, KEEP GOING!”

    Quitters will most certainly go Extinct. Non-Quitters got a SHOT! You know, back in the Pleistocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum era, some 90% of all species went EXTINCT. Except there was a mole-like mammal that did not. While all the Big Lizards went to the Great Beyond, that little mole made it THROUGH the Zero Point. Eventually, said mole climbed up into the trees, then dropped down out of them to turn the world into an industrial sewer.

    Can you say FOR SURE this cannot be DONE AGAIN? You can’t. Done once, it can be DONE AGAIN! You won’t be one of those moles though, because you are a QUITTER.

    See you on the other side.

    RE

  • @ RE

    Simpleton.

    Show your proof.

  • “Also fairly well known at this point is that there are quite a few Underground Bunkers sprinkled around to house up to thousands, complete with stored food, water purifiers, air filters, micro-nuke power, indoor hydroponics and grow systems that probably can make a minimum 50 years without even coming up for air.”

    What a dream! The possibility of living under a rock for 50 years! Oh what joy! Utopia at last! Nothing to do but watch Star Trek reruns and masturbate to old ads about pizza delivery with the thousand others who also hate the sight of the sky.

  • I watched sosad. It awoke a sense of empathy for me. The important parts really are the stories that individuals will play out.

  • I never said it was going to be fun GS. We started out as Moles, evolving back to live in that environment will certainly be a challenge.

    Far as I am concerned, all I need for entertainment is a keyboard and a chess set.

    Your mileage may vary.

    RE

  • @ UF

    Dimwit. Give me an example of anyone that lived forever.

    RE

  • @ RE

    Why ? What has that got to do with the issue ? Nothing at all.

    You are so philosophically illiterate you can’t think in a straight line for one single sentence.

    Please present proof that Tony Weddle will die.

    PROOF. You understand English ? All you have done is made an assertion.

    An assertion by RE is worthless. It has no value. It is not PROOF.

  • @RE
    “Give me an example of anyone that lived forever.”

    A little humor is in order. HeLa cells come close.

  • @UF

    If you want to discuss philosophy, I suggest you drop in on the Diner and take on Ka. He’ll Carve you Up like Thanksgiving Turkey.

    I’m not making a philosophical proof, I’m making a CFS observation that NOBODY lives forever. You are going to DIE. There isn’t a damn thing you can do about it. Even if the atmosphere had ZERO CO2 in it you are destined to DIE. Live with it.

    RE

  • @ RE

    Totally clueless as ever.

    I didn’t mention discussing philosophy. Why can’t you stay on topic for two comments in a row ?

    You butted in on my comment to Tony Weddle.

    He wants PROOF that Mcpherson’s assertion that humans will become extinct in the near term is correct.

    I replied that he cannot PROVE that he himself will die, let alone that all humans will die.

    You stuck your nose in and went off on a tangent about Winston Churchill and people living forever and now Thanksgiving Turkeys, blahblah.

    It’s impossible to have a discussion with a person whose mind is made of blancmange and crunchy ferret juice, RE. You waste my time.

    If you want to proceed, present your PROOF, show it here, that Tony Weddle will die.

    I’m talking serious science, serious logic.

  • “If you want to proceed, present your PROOF, show it here, that Tony Weddle will die.”-UF

    Of course you can’t prove it numbskull. It’s an axiomatic truth. All living things die. You either accept this or not in your belief system. Like the Existence of God, nobody can prove that either, you believe it or you don’t. The evidence for the belief all living things die though is pretty overwhelming, more than the Existence of God anyhow. .

    Since you are making such a fuss about it, do you think TW will live forever? Obviously not, since in your belief system, EVERYBODY will be dead pretty soon. You can’t prove that either, you take it as a axiomatic truth you believe in.

    I don’t have too much problem with people having belief systems except when they go declaring them as Certain Truth. So if somebody tells me it is CERTAIN Jesus Christ was the Son of God and I MUST believe this truth or I am a Lost Soul, I argue with them about this. Happens regularly on the Diner of course.

    Belief in NTHE is a lot like believing in Jesus Christ, the folks who believe it are dead certain of it. Both groups cite evidence they think supports this idea and makes it Truth with a Capital T. In neither case though is the evidence sufficient to justify the conclusion with anywhere near 100% certainty.

    On the other hand, Extinction over some time span is pretty close to a certainty, like the axiom that all living things will die. In both cases, you live as long as you live until you die. Most people don’t try to hurry the process along too much, they put it off as long as they can. You MIGHT die tomorrow, just as all living things MIGHT go extinct by mid-century, but you don’t live your life as though you will die tomorrow, least most people don’t. If you do live your life as though tomorrow you will die, it’s a pretty depressing way to live IMHO.

    Your mileage may vary on this too.

    RE

  • @ RE

    Oh, I see.

    So the Great RE, Master of Chess and Equations, who Never Quits, presents me with this rubbish this morning.

    Well, thank you. But it’s equivalent to the sort of thing that we applaud infants for achieving.

    You know, when they remain vertical on their rear legs, before toppling over onto the carpet, and adults cheer.

    RE chews gum and stands up at the same time. Woohoo !

    So, Near Term Human Extinction now becomes An Axiomatic Truth ?

    Because you do not understand how logic works ? Jeez.

    Look, I am disregarding everything that you have said there because it is all irrelevant, red herrings, straw men, just concealing your fundamental ignorance.

    Begin at the beginning, please.

    If Tony Weddle cannot prove a certainty, an event in the future, his own death, that of a single human.

    Then how can he demand that someone else prove an event in the future, the death of all humans ?

    Because THAT is what he wants from Mcpherson.

    Both he and you are too stupid to understand even your OWN positions in this debate, let alone the positions of others.

    You make assertions, which have no foundation.

    WE HERE are supposed to be basing the case on SCIENCE, and reason and logic.

  • “But it’s equivalent to the sort of thing that we applaud infants for achieving. “-UF

    Back to the Infant Metaphors UF? This is getting old.

    “WE HERE are supposed to be basing the case on SCIENCE, and reason and logic.”

    Nonsense. You base it all on a Belief Structure.

    SCIENCE says that during the PETM, Temps were +12C above the current baseline, and not ALL life was extinguished, in fact the progenitors of Homo Sapiens survived that particular MEE.

    The prognostication here is that we might get +8C inside the NTHE window. That is fully 4C BELOW what we was experienced in the PETM, yet not ALL life forms were extinguished then.

    You are not talking scinece, you are talking a belief structure you have. It is not based in good logic, it merely reinforces the kind of misanthropic thinking you have.

    Explain to me why all life forms will be extinguished this time, when they were NOT extinguished in the PETM, with temps +12C above current baseline and CO2 at 1000 ppm or more.

    You wanna talk science? Go for it.

    RE

  • @ RE

    You are now suddenly incapable of reading ? Please read my reply to you.

    I’m not interested in your irrelevant bullshit that you use to hide you ignorance.

    Please present your PROOF that Tony Weddle will die.

    Or else, alternatively, if you cannot, explain why, and accept and admit that such proof is impossible for you to submit here.

  • “Explain to me why all life forms will be extinguished this time, when they were NOT extinguished in the PETM, with temps +12C above current baseline and CO2 at 1000 ppm or more.”

    1) Over 400 nuclear power plants in meltdown
    2) Chemical toxins from failed equipment and systems
    3) Widespread habitat loss from increased tar sand production and fracking prior to collapse.
    4) Widespread habitat loss from increasingly desperate farming practices in the production of food, palm oils, and “energy” crops.
    5) The locust mentality of people who believe in huge underground bunkers and that the human race must continue no matter the cost… which is kind of how we got shoved into NTE in the first place.

    It’s not a triumph of life is some microbes manage to slip on by.
    Being buried alive isn’t living either, yet this is a “solution” in your mind. You talk about never quitting, but odds are while the rest of us are struggling with whatever terrors await us, you will already be dead in your little chess club spider hole. No one will notice.

  • I already stipulated proof that anybody will die including Tony is not possible. Please read for comprehension.

    Now, please explain how higher level organisms survived the PETM. Let’s talk SCIENCE here!

    RE

  • @ RE

    You already ‘stipulated’ ??

    As in ‘laid down as a condition of agreement’ ?

    So, we all KNOW, that to the best of our knowledge, all humans, in all cases, at all times, have DIED.

    That is an established certainty, and if there ever have been, or ever will be any exceptions, to that rule, the chances of that being the case are likely to be so small, that we may as well not even bother calculating them.

    But if we should wish to do so, we can assign them a mathematical probability, X or whatever, and give it a value, y or whatever, just to be on the safe side, to show God or whomever, that we are being serious and professional, and not sloppy.

    So, we may conclude, via LOGIC that even though something is CERTAIN,
    we CANNOT prove a CERTAINTY.

    So HOW THE FUCK do people like YOU and Tony Widdle expect McPherson to PROVE NTHE ?

    You are demanding something impossible and then whining and complaining, like brats who don’t get sweeties, when you don’t get it, and the FAULT lies with your own ignorance and philosophical illiteracy.

    And, no, I’m not going to discuss the PETM extinction with you, there’s nothing to discuss, it can be answered in one line, ‘only’ 95% of the creatures went extinct. Some survived. Stuff happens.

  • RE, it’s different this time because earlier climactic changes took place over TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS, not a couple hundred years. As I pointed out elsewhere, we’re not even gonna get to go through a single generation of most trees before the end of the warming (and pollution, etc.) that’s going to kill them. It’s killing them now.

    Sure “life” might survive for a good while: bacteria and stuff that has a reproductive cycle of hours, not decades. Now do you get it?

    The problem with that guy who tried to “Fisk” Guy is the same. From what I recall, he *also* chose to ignore the speed of the changes we are going through. Also, IIRC, like other opponents including yourself, he did some sleight-of-hand when talking about total extinction of all life vs. NTHE. Like Guy is just blowing smoke if the humans and mammals and vertebrates all die but *some* form of life survives for some millenia. I don’t see any reason to be cheerful on that score: Yay! a toxic planet where some bacteria survive?? vs. Boo! All life exterminated?!?! If that’s the argument, then Guy’s point has already been won, wouldn’t you say?

  • “RE, it’s different this time because earlier climactic changes took place over TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS, not a couple hundred years. “-L

    A couple of hundred years is not NTHE. NTHE is everybody dead by midcentury.

    It doesn’t take many to survive for it NOT to be extinction, in the case of Toba only 10,000 Human Souls made it through the Zero Point.

    Even with the most radical projections for climate change, you don’t know precisely how every location on the planet will be affected. You also don’t account for the fact that unlike animals which can’t make quick adaptations, HS can. HS can build passive solar climate controlled domes, HS can build aquaponics and hydroponics grow houses, HS can cultivate plants in the winter instead of summer, etc.

    A complete wipeout of HS in under 50 years is HIGHLY unlikely, and all it takes for it not to be an Extinction Level Event is for 10,000 Human Souls to make it through this Zero Point, somewhere.

    Done once, it can be DONE AGAIN.

    RE

  • @ RE

    You just fabricate a fantasy in your own imagination without any basis.

    By 2050 the oceans will have acidified as much as during the entire PETM. That’s what the marine scientiests say. That means dead oceans. That means… ? Fill in the blank.

    You are not being required to survive through some ‘difficult patch’ in a climate controlled dome for a century or two.

    There will be no habitable planet anymore. Not ever. For some millions of years.

    You cannot face that, because you have some psychological dynamic that means that if you did, you’d be a loser, a quitter.

    To some of us here, that seems perverse.

    Certainly, speaking for myself, I cannot think of a worse fate, than having to be stuck in a some domes somewhere with people like you, and nowhere to escape to, after having witnessed everything wonderful about this Earth turn into shit and horror. I’d go to great lengths to avoid that destiny.

  • “Certainly, speaking for myself, I cannot think of a worse fate, than having to be stuck in a some domes somewhere with people like you”-UF

    So it’s OK to give away your reservation?

    RE

  • Science is fantastic for getting insight into what we can expect in the future, RE.

    Kevin Anderson explains.

  • Ulvfugl wrote: “Science is fantastic for getting insight into what we can expect in the future”

    Yes, but not once is Anderson considering the enormous power of wishful thinking, fantasy underground bunkers, a society based upon chess playing ability and loneliness, nor does he mention possible time travel to an earlier Earth where we can exploit the oil industry anew and become millionaires back when it was still fun.

    Face it. No amount of logic or reason can overcome a willful ignorance coupled with a warped sense of reality. Just as Walt Disney’s frozen head is theoretically immortal, there’s no reason why everything can’t go on exactly as it is now, only under a dome without any women to prevent us from watching all the DVDs we can store in huge vault of perfection.