Total Eclipse of the Doom: Requiem for Mike Ruppert

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Published on the Doomstead Diner on April 15. 2014

mike-ruppert-dogLast Sunday Night Mike Ruppert committed Suicide.

For those of you who don’t know who Mike Ruppert was, he was one of the first bloggers to investigate the ramifications of declining energy production, as well as someone who constantly questioned the narrative offered up in the MSM as explanation for things like the 9-11 destruction of the World Trade Center. Some would call him a “Conspiracy Theorist”. More like Conspiracy FACT, but that is a subject for another post.

Like many other bloggers and researchers looking at the problems we face now, Mike became increasingly upset and depressed over the progress and the lack of any real initiatives to try to deal with this stuff in a coherent manner. This is evident in the progress of his writing over the last couple of years, and his demeanor in his podcasts on the Lifeboat Hour, his web based radio show.

Mike isn’t the first Blogger/Pundit to come to an early demise in recent years, Matt Simmons also drowned in August of 2010.  Maybe an Accident, maybe a Suicide, maybe an Assisted Suicide by the Cleaner Squad, who knows? Perhaps even more disturbing is the constant talk of Suicide and Hospicing on Nature Bats Last, Guy McPherson’s blog which concerns itself mainly with Climate Change and the hypothesis that we are on the cusp of Near Term Human Extinction, by mid-century if you accept the arguments made that this is an inevitable outcome.

Not unrelated to this outcome is the fact Carolyn Baker was the first Collapse Blogger to break the news of Mike’s suicide. Carolyn posts regularly on Nature Bats Last, often these days with the explicit theme of Hospicing for people who have incurable illnesses and finding a comfortable way to walk into the Great Beyond. The clear analogy being made here is that the entire Human Race is in need of Hospicing, as we are all condemned to imminent Death under the scenario of Near Term Human Extinction. The difference of course is that while an individual can have a fairly certain diagnosis of Imminent Death in some circumstances, it is hardly a provable certainty that 100% of Homo Sapiens are destined for Death inside 30-40 years or so. Really, even in the case of individuals diagnosed with various forms of inoperable and untreatable Cancers, rarely is there 100% certainty of Death. “Miraculous” remissions do occur with virtually all forms of cancer, though granted at relatively small percentages of the afflicted people.

For the really depressed person though who sees NO ESCAPE from imminent Death and who becomes more focused on getting out of pain or avoiding future pain they are certain is coming down the pipe, the ideas of Hospicing and Suicide become attractive alternatives. The idea here is to Accept Death and become OK with it, and pulling your own plug at a time of your own choosing is a kind of Empowerment for an an individual who feels disempowered by the seemingly hopeless situation they are immersed in.

Everybody should have the right to pull their own plug if they so choose, I have no problem with that idea. What I do find to be worrisome is a developing zeitgeist which tacitly encourages suicide as an option, because people who sink into depression are very vulnerable and can and probably do latch onto this idea as rationale for the behavior.

There is little doubt that as a whole the World and the Human Race are in a World of Shit, and it is pretty easy these days to throw up your hands and say it is all utterly hopeless. Climate Change, Fukushima, Global Wars over resources, Drought, Famine…all you gotta do is read the Newz on any given day and you can hear the Thunder of the Hoofbeats of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Many times in my articles and comments in the Collapse Blogosphere I have used the iconic quote from The Sixth Sense, “I See Dead People”.

Today, Mike Ruppert is one of those Dead People. While he was alive, Mike Ruppert made a difference, many people who otherwise would not be aware of the problems which face us now are aware of them because once there was Mike Ruppert walking the earth, passing on to others what he saw and what he learned.

For those of us not yet counted amongst the Dead People, we still have choices to make, and the biggest choice of all is whether you live to fight another day, or whether you give up the fight, hospice yourself and wait for death, or hurry it along with a Bullet meets Brain combination.

I won’t make a judgement here on Mike’s choice, but for me I don’t see hurrying the trip to the Great Beyond as near appropriate yet. There is a good long ways to go here between now and Human Extinction, even under the most rapid of scenarios. The End Game is NOT written in Stone, and each person can still make a Difference, if not for the World at large at least for the people they know, love and care for. Mike had a clear voice, and it would have been nice if he could have found it within himself to speak a bit longer, but that is not the choice he made.

For those of us not yet Dead, we still have choices to make.



McPherson was featured in an article written by a member of the audience during a recent presentation. It’s here.

Comments 160

  • To clarify, I have never advocated suicide, but quite the opposite. In light of the fact that we’re mortal, I advocate pursuing a life of excellence. A primary tenet underlying the notion of hospice is not “lay down and die,” but rather is “remember what has always been important: generosity, love, and compassionate action towards others.” As nearly as I can distinguish, this perspective is matched by many others in this space. It is contrary to RE’s understanding, and apparently — based on the number of times this issue has arisen — is beyond his ability to comprehend.

  • I am in complete agreement with Guy. For further clarification, please visit my website at and watch the conversation between me and Andrew Harvey on how we should LIVE in the face of catastrophic climate change.

  • RE brought the strawman here with him when he first arrived. He has been told. He doesn’t listen. It’s a useful cover for him to hide behind, so he can poke his head out and yell Quitter ! Seems to be his way of coping. It’s got a bit boring after a few months. I don’t take any notice any more.

  • Aaaaw NO…Trapped between Harvey and RE…

    Perhaps suicide is the way to go.. after all…

    Please God there HAS TO BE A BETTER OPTION and I’m not talking about the effing Diner…

  • Herr Reverse Engineer operates in a mode very akin to “civilisation”: acquire & require. Acquire resources. Require conformity in world-views to participate, as is the case with all governments, and even fundamentalist mullahs / pastors.

    To such persons, acknowledging one’s finitude – or that of the society, the species, or the universe is blasphemy that must perforce lead to despair, dejection and disengagement. This is particularly so if that finitude is portrayed as of sufficient imminence to affect one’s plans for the future: such weakness must be countered with every tool at hand.

    Although they seem to use the same language, their usage in effect makes it an entirely different language. And while their language is understood by others, they are sadly unable to understand those others. It’s like talking to a fish about water.

    But for the rest, let us remember that hopelessness is not despair. And confidence based on denial may be quite strident when it feels challenged. Not quite what they expected when they invited NBL to their turf.

  • there’s an opening in the heart
    where poetry lives
    not saying or knowing
    beyond what others know
    just silent and listening
    once in a while
    composing some order
    in the beauty and pain

  • As events unfold and it clear to even the causal participant in life that Things Are Fucked, suicide will become increasingly common, even encouraged by society at large. It will be less about ending your misery and more about removing your requirements for food so that others can have more. Suicide will be altruistic and selfless instead surrendering. Sacrificing for your children via suicide can be the ultimate show of love.

    We’re not there yet, but this shift in attitudes about suicide is possible. Naturally, it will be corrupted and various groups of people who aren’t instantly benefiting the society will find suicide forced upon them, but it is still worth thinking about. Much depends on what direction collapse takes — a gradual decline as systems fail, or a sudden crash. The more gradual, the more likely institutionalized suicide.

    As it is, suicide is now the leading cause of death among white males, out pacing heart disease. Economic pressures continue to take their toll. Suicide is the leading cause of death among war veterans, as we ignore the damage caused to people who are trapped in America’s “all volunteer” army. Suicide is the number one cause of death among ranchers as they lose their generational livelihoods. The pressures are already in place. The only thing lacking is any discussion of them.

  • People who commit suicide are going to do so, regardless of whether they read literature that encourages it. Depression transfixes the psyche so that little else can be seen: it is like looking eastward towards a flock of ducks on water during a clear sunrise. At some point the sun shines so brightly upon the water that one can’t make out the birds, leaving the viewer dazzled; the only relief is to close one’s eyes, or to look away.

    I only knew Mike from his writings, and his film, but even at this distance I could see a soul in pain.

    Mike’s generation seems the least well-equipped to deal with the unraveling of this civilization.

  • “I only knew Mike from his writings, and his film, but even at this distance I could see a soul in pain.”

    In a recent video of him at a sweat lodge, I saw that pain.

    “Mike’s generation seems the least well-equipped to deal with the unraveling of this civilization.”


  • No one can be in hospice when they are stuck in denial.

    I am not sure lying down and waiting for death will be the choice of those fresh out of denial. But think how sweet a victory to have escaped that mantle before your time to die? What would happen then?

    Patriarchal industry is a death machine dialed to perpetuating that mantle and being a part of it is not a choice of now living humans. As some are beginning to understand.

    This is what it is all about, which side you are on while still alive, death or life?

    Because you know of death as an idea you live for it? What of life? Is it yet an idea?

    Thus the cognitive dissonance.

    Hey Artleads, always good to see you too. :-)

  • “To clarify, I have never advocated suicide”-GM

    Regardless of what you advocate, the suicide theme gets replayed here regularly. Pat perpetually tags his posts with

    The Church of Euthanasia
    Save the Planet-Kill Yourself

    I don’t think I have ever read a disavowel of Pat’s posting by you, so it might be nice if you explicitly said you do not support Pat’s Church of Euthanasia.

    Far as my inability to understand goes, several people I have spoken with come away with the same impression, so it is not just me. There is a subtext of Hopelessness that is pervasive here, Grief being a major theme. Grief recovery, Kubler-Ross Stages of Grief, etc. One grieves for the Dead, except of course we are not Dead Yet.

    Beyond that, I get regularly bashed here every time I cross post for advocating means and methods to try to survive, as though it is a bad thing to want to live because many people won’t. It’s a very thin line between telling people not to try to survive and telling them to roll over and die. You may not say this, but it is pervasive through the commentary here, and again I don’t see you drop in to disavow this either.

    In the case at hand of Mike Ruppert, his suicide note said he was doing this “for the children”. How does his suicide help any children? Obviously, you can’t rationalize the behavior of a depressed person, but they can latch onto ideas like this as a means to rationalize the choice of suicide for themselves.

    Your thesis is that there is essentially No Hope. That is the same thing as saying Hopeless, and Hopelessness leads to Despair, and Despair can in its ultimate incarnation lead to Suicide. That apparently is the road Mike took, which is very sad because he had so much to give.


  • RE, I don’t support much of what you write. Yet it appears in this space. It’s almost as if I believe in freedom of expression, unfettered by my own beliefs about what is being expressed.

    If I were to disavow every comment with which I disagree, I’d be extremely busy. I prefer an open exchange of ideas to censorship or appeals to authority.

    And hope is stupid. Fear appears on the opposite side of the same coin. I try to avoid both.

  • I wouldn’t say you have to disavow EVERY comment that appears here, however when something appears as often as “Save the Planet-Kill Yourself”, that would seem to be worth a little time to disavow.

    Insofar as posting my articles, I do the same thing with yours even though I don’t agree with them either. So, we think alike on the issue of posting up opposing viewpoints. At least we have that in common. :)


  • I am all for banker suicides,that might actually save the planet.

  • I believe hope and despair are two sides of the same coin, but that we should fear neither.

    Hope is the beginning of any journey, worthy or no.

  • RE says:

    “So, we think alike on the issue of posting up opposing viewpoints. At least we have that in common.”

    Bos S. says:

    You must be mistaken RE – there is no anti-NBL forum where Guy banishes those who dare to disagree – like the anti-Diner forum you created to shoosh all non-ass kissers off the Diner forum. Your hypocrisy is hilarious.

    You”re an admin – can you make us an anti-NBL forum and move your posts there?

    Pretty please.

  • A big factor in why people don’t listen is they believe they can live the better life. If not today then tomorrow provided they work hard enough. This belief while sorely tested today is still largely present. This prevents people from listening or taking action.

    The other factor is that to strike an alternative path is to live a life of poverty when compared to peers to the eyes of many. This feeling of inadequacy not only stops people from engaging alternatives but it also pushes people into pursuing unsustainable practices even if they demonstrate some awareness of their predicament. At the end of the day many people are hedonists but it is not only that there are strong social pressures to conform and demonstrate you are a “productive” member of society. This means earning a high income and by extension lead a high consumptive lifestyle. If people can be rewarded for preserving the environment then I am sure behaviours could change surprisingly quickly. Unfortunately I doubt this will happen until our current economic paradigm goes into failure mode.

    I do recall that it was Milton Friedman who said that ideas are designed during periods of stability and are only implemented when there is a crisis as it is at that time of severe hardship and dislocation when people become most receptive to alternate ideas. While the examples of Friedman are different in the sense his ideas got the approval of the financial and political elite it does show that when people are in a state of shock they will consider ideas that was previously considered radical. Perhaps this is an avenue people who wish for a better tomorrow should pursue. Get things working on a local level to gain credibility and push this agenda when it becomes self-evident the current regime can no longer provide their needs.

    I do feel though that an attitude of no hope is impossible to achieve as is to eliminate fear. These emotions are somewhat instinctual and it is my thought that emotions should not be suppressed or hidden as this eventually leads to strange behaviour. Instead hope and fear must be tempered with knowledge, experience and honesty. We cannot ignore our emotions so we must manage and besides hope and fear can be helpful if applied in the right doses. As always what is needed is balance.

  • The anti-Diner isn’t for people who disagree, it’s for people who endlessly complain about the Admins on the Diner. Disagreement is fine, constantly whining about your perceived and manufactured mistreatment gets tiresome.


  • “I am all for banker suicides,that might actually save the planet.”-D

    Indeed, when it comes to Seppuku, it’s very dependent on who precisely it is that is slitting open their belly. In some cases you mourn, in others you applaud.


  • “I wouldn’t say you have to disavow EVERY comment that appears here, however when something appears as often as “Save the Planet-Kill Yourself”, that would seem to be worth a little time to disavow”

    I’ve been putting together a response to responses to a previous post of mine; however this seemed the appropriate opportunity to share on this topic.

    If, I’m “hearing” the above quote from “RE”, and please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. What is sounds like to me is that Guy doesn’t have to disavow everything; however he does have to disavow those things that RE finds offensive and disturbing and appear often. A committee of one. Now, that’s consensus for you. Is that how it works at SUN? Is that how it’s supposed to work here at NBL? Doesn’t sound that way according to Guy. There seems to be a theme here.

    Guy has been clear, at least to me, time after time after time in writing, in speaking and in those presentations that you can still watch online. Is it clear to me because I am a good active listener? You decide.

    Guy hasn’t and doesn’t advocate the decision of bringing your life to closure. Yet, what’s happened so often during talks and interviews is that people think they are hearing these words come out of his mouth when they haven’t.

    This is a common behavior on many, if not most humans part. They are not attending to what’s being said. They are thinking about what they are going to say. They “hear” something that wasn’t said and instead of echoing or checking in who they are conversing they carry on as if what they think was said is true. And no amount of correcting them will help.

    For those interested the book Messages: The Communication Skills Book by Matthew McKay, Martha Davis and Patrick Fanning is a good place to start. Be aware this is not a tool or skill you can acquire by merely reading any book. You must fully engage in the process as painful as it will be.

    One of the reasons that 9 out of 10 Intentional Communities, etc, etc. fail is that the people are all rushing out to buy the land, plant the crops and build the barn. They are impatient. Few, and fewer still understand the need to build connections to each other before embarking on building structures.

    I was harshly reminded of this during a conversation I had with a young woman at Guy’s recent NYC presentation. All she wanted was to get to a community. When I suggested attending the Communities Conference and acquiring some skills and tools such as sociocracy, consensus training and conflict resolution skills her response was “I haven’t got time for that. Talking is a waste of time.” If I only had a nickel for each time I’ve heard something along those lines.

    I firmly believe that people jump to the conclusion that Guy is promoting suicide because they cannot hear what he IS saying. They can’t think outside the box so they can only think in binary ways. If the picture Guy is painting is so severe then the only alternative is suicide. After all living a life of excellence, which is what he suggests is much too hard to do.

    The recent decision of Anne in England to use Dignitas to bring her life to a peaceful, serene and calm closure upsets a great many people. So, even at 89 a person like Anne still has no right to decide enough is enough and her decision brings up a swell of villagers coming after you with pitchforks and torches much like an old EC comic book, Tales From The Crypt. Rest easy Anne.

    The push back to her decision has been to label her depressed, lonely, needing help, yada, yada, yada. They are going to drag you back to life whether you want it or not.

    Regarding Mike, as was mentioned on COIC he was murdered by us all. (I’ll definitely get push back on this.) He went out when he had enough. That was his right. I only wish he would have made his exit in a more peaceful and serene way like Anne and the Altman’s, the couples whose son has shared their story in the Guardian story of February 14, 2014.

    If only more people over 70 would consider sacrificing themselves (boy will I really get push back here) instead of being a constant cash cow to the IC medical industry. I wonder. what if grandparents were presented with a choice before having one of those extremely expensive procedures such as “You can have the procedure or you can make sure your children, who you claim to love, will have resources so they can have access to food and water.”

    I also believe this fear that there will be an explosions of suicide is a fantasy. If we let one person do it we’ll have an epidemic on our hands. Well, first of all if there was an epidemic than oughtn’t we start looking at the underlying causes. Nope can’t do that so we’ll just use religion to keep you from displaying any sort of independence. We’ll make sure that you suffer in the hereafter if you dare to make a statement.

    I remember my partner’s father making one of those comments that stun you. In response to my partner confronting his father’s being uncomfortable with my partner’s being gay. “If everyone was gay the would be no children.” How does one even begin to respond to comments like that? And this from an educated water engineer who was a god fearing Midwesterner. Yet, the fear that we’d all be gay was real to him and that there would be no children (we should have been so lucky to have gone out that way).

    Of course this was before Gays have become the new Hetrosexuals using all of the technology available to them (as long as they have cash) to breed and breed and breed. Got to keep those uber gene pools going.

  • a wonderful goodbye to a truly brave and passionate man.
    thank you Mike Ruppert, and goodbye.

  • @PMB Says:
    April 20th, 2014 at 12:44 pm

    Simply brilliant response sir/ma’am! Know that I very seldom use that descriptive term. Most of what is usually deemed by the masses as “intelligent,” let alone “brilliant,” is merely regurgitated tripe that far too many are far too proud to have ingested in the first place. If I could, I would kiss you and I do not think my female “better half” would object in the slightest. Good on ya’, mate. Now, if only the rest of the commentariat here, and elsewhere, would just take the time to digest your words of wisdom… Truly “wise” you are.

  • “Never mind that shit, here comes Mongo!” (Blazing Saddles)

    California drought to cause fruit and veggie sticker shock – ‘We predict the increased prices will change consumer purchasing behavior’

    The price of fruits and veggies is going up, causing possible sticker shock at the grocery store checkout. Blame one of California’s worst droughts ever for the rising prices.

    Crop shortages, ranging from 10% to 20% depending on the type of crop, will lead to the higher prices, says professor Timothy Richards of the W. P. Carey School of Business at Arizona State University, citing recently completed research on which crops will likely be most affected.

    “You’re probably going to see the biggest produce price increases on avocados, berries, broccoli, grapes, lettuce, melons, peppers, tomatoes and packaged salads,” says Richards. “We can expect to see the biggest percentage jumps in prices for avocados and lettuce – 28% and 34%, respectively.”

    Richards estimates the following possible price increases due to the drought:

    •Avocados likely to go up 17 to 35 cents to as much as $1.60 each.
    •Berries likely to rise 21 to 43 cents to as much as $3.46 per clamshell container.
    •Broccoli likely to go up 20 to 40 cents to a possible $2.18 per pound.
    •Grapes likely to rise 26 to 50 cents to a possible $2.93 per pound.
    •Lettuce likely to rise 31 to 62 cents to as much as $2.44 per head.
    •Packaged salad likely to go up 17 to 34 cents to a possible $3.03 per bag.
    •Peppers likely to go up 18 to 35 cents to a possible $2.48 per pound.
    •Tomatoes likely to rise 22 to 45 cents to a possible $2.84 per pound.

    Industry estimates range from a half-million to 1 million acres of agricultural land likely to be affected by the current California drought. Richards believes 10% to 20% of the supply of certain crops could be lost. California is the biggest national supplier of several of those crops. For avocados, the state is the only major domestic source. […]

    “We predict the increased prices will change consumer purchasing behavior,” says Sherry Frey, vice president of Nielsen Perishables Group. [more]

  • I don’t think it’s the talk of hospice that encouraged Mike Ruppert to commit suicide. One factor that set Mike apart from many other truth tellers is that his journey was so up close and personal with the powers of darkness and lies. He was in the CIA, not just talking about the CIA, he was in the LA police dept, not just talking from a distance. He was in the thick of it and couldn’t leave it alone. I don’t know how long a person can endure that kind of heartbreak. At core, I sense Mike Ruppert was a true romantic in the sense that he really believed life should be better, kinder, more caring and true. Maybe he just couldn’t be content with doing his best and releasing the outcome to some greater plan. He will be truly missed.

  • +1 PMB an excellent post.
    This weird stigma in our society regarding suicide seems to be another layer of guilt and control that the catholic church embedded into our psyche … it was one more way to ensure that the tithing slaves had no escape on either end…. no birth control and no suicide suckers!

  • Interesting piece. I have read Mike Ruppert’s book Crossing the Rubicon, watched numerous videos of his talks, Watched Collapse. I’m grateful for his contributions and saddened at his passing. Oddly, I had a premonition of his suicide after his return to Cali, having no knowledge that suicide was his intent on many prior occasions according to close friends.

    A friend of mine hung himself in his mother’s garage some years ago. His older brother saw it happen through the side window, but was unable to help as he struggled to hold him to loosen the electrical cord that had already done it’s work. There was no note, and in fact no indication to the family as they ate dinner just prior that he had made the decision to do this.

    I thought about Mark’s decision, and tried to imagine the mental state he must have been in to come to the conclusion that suicide was the best choice for him at the time. Perhaps he knew what none of us could even imagine. I can’t condemn his choice, I can’t be angry nor can I say it wasn’t the best choice for my friend.

    Mr. Ruppert has left a very positive impact on me and educated me in ways I may never have received otherwise. For that I am grateful.

  • “Guy hasn’t and doesn’t advocate the decision of bringing your life to closure. Yet, what’s happened so often during talks and interviews is that people think they are hearing these words come out of his mouth when they haven’t.”-PMB

    Have you ever considered WHY this occurs so often? Clearly there is something in the message which evokes this response in many people. It certainly evokes the response amongst people I speak with on the Diner.

    So are we ALL misconstruing the message here? Are all the folks listening to the talks misconstruing the message? If that is the case, maybe you wanna think about how to deliver your message in a different way so people do not get this take from it?

    If you get the same responses over and over again despite the fact you think you are saying something else, then maybe it’s time to start thinking about how to rephrase the message so people actually understand what you are saying, and don’t come away with a message you did not intend to deliver.


  • How does his suicide help any children?

    As a Long Pig, perhaps?

    That is the same thing as saying Hopeless, and Hopelessness leads to Despair

    Straight from the creed of imperialism. The fish cannot understand that its nose is wet. The may speak the same language, but their usage in effect makes it completely different. It is not given to them to even conceive of action without expectation, a central tenet of the non-theistic religions.

    – Perhaps why the Jesuits averred:

    “Give me the child for seven years,
    and I will give you the man.”
    “Give me the child until he is
    seven and I care not who has him thereafter.”

    I believe hope and despair are two sides of the same coin

    Yes, indeed, that is the premise of many, including the imperialists. A lot of work is needed to reach the realisation that the converse of hope is fear. Until then the fish cannot understand that its nose is wet.

    Despair, like dejection, is expectations thwarted: the difference is a matter of scale.

    Your hypocrisy is hilarious.

    Indeed, and as noted:

    however he does have to disavow those things that RE finds offensive and disturbing and appear often

    I do feel though that an attitude of no hope is impossible to achieve as is to eliminate fear.

    Of course impossible – as long as the “I” and the “not-I” are predicated as real.

    And there is a way to eliminate fear, VAIRĀGYA-ŚATAKAM of BHARTṚHARI (Bhartrhari’s hundred verses on renunciation):

    “In enjoyment, there is the fear of disease; In social position, the fear of falling-off; In wealth, the fear of hostile kings; In honour, the fear of humiliation; In power, the fear of foemen; In beauty, the fear of old age; In scriptural erudition, the fear of opponents; In virtue, the fear of traducers, In body, the fear of death. All the things of this world pertaining to man Are attended with fear; Renunciation alone stands for fearlessness.

  • @ RE

    Have you ever considered WHY this occurs so often?

    I’ve been reading Guy’s stuff almost since he began. I don’t see any ‘suicide is the answer’ message being conveyed ever, nor has anyone on NBL until YOU came along. People on the Diner say that’s what we say, because that’s what YOU tell them !

    You’re like a doctor who infects people with a disease so that you can claim the credit for curing them. We never had the disease until you came along and said we had it !

    The only example you HAVE is pat, who is a nihilist hero of the first order, representing a fine tradition. I take my hat off to him.

    If someone wants to take their own life, that is their right, their business, and who the hell are YOU to interfere and tell them that they have to be SAVED because you don’t like QUITTERS, RE, you’re an evangelising pompous self-righteous busybody.

  • I once wrote here that we do not live to be remebered.
    I have to say that Michael Ruppert is THE person that gave me the first lights about the crisis we are living today. So I will never forget who he was.
    Some years ago, I was unable to understand why somebody would commit suicide. I thought this kind of people was coward, unable to face life.
    Today I see things in a different way, given the reality we are living today. I do not encourage suicide, but at least now I respect somebody that takes that decision. So I respect Michael Ruppert´s decision. His action will not change the image I have from him.
    A great man, that I will always remember.

  • PMB

    “If only more people over 70 would consider sacrificing themselves (boy will I really get push back here) instead of being a constant cash cow to the IC medical industry.”

    If you tell me you’re over 70, I will consider your statement with provisional respect. Otherwise…

    Why? The medical industry is an abomination. It is run for profit, and will make money any way it can. Just like the big banks (to which it is linked). That’s not the fault of the over-70s. That this age group should die in order to ameliorate the bad behavior of advanced capitalism is the height of absurdity.

    In a sane society, the elderly are valued for their experience. If you don’t value experience, and just want to slosh around in your arrogant folly, you will get and deserve push back.

  • Suicides Due To Doom

    To say many farms will be bought
    Does not mean your death should be sought;
    One raises the question,
    While one’s a suggestion:
    The difference is is vs. ought.

  • More tears shed, after listening to the callers on the Lifeboat hour tonight.
    Mike Ruppert touched many people, and I am thankful to have had the opportunity to visit with him last year in Colorado.
    He will be missed.

  • ” I don’t see any ‘suicide is the answer’ message being conveyed ever, nor has anyone on NBL until YOU came along.”-UF

    Pat wasn’t here before me?

    The Church of Euthanasia: Save the Planet- Kill Yourself


  • My appreciation goes to Lidia for her recommendation of The Silence of Animals. It provoked some quality thinking on my part and helped me find an answer to a question I had struggled with the past few days.

    That question arose from Guy’s reference in recent videos that humans would more properly be called Homo callidus (the clever ape) instead of Homo sapiens (the wise ape) because we aren’t all that wise. I don’t know who thought it first, but Craig Dilworth made the same argument in his book Too Smart for our Own Good. I do agree that, outside of perhaps Aboriginals, wisdom is not generally an inherent trait of humankind. Cleverness is pretty common, but there are plenty of the unclever milling around. So, I have been bending my mind trying to think of a near universal trait that describes a meaningful attribute.

    Guy, the answer popped right out of John Gray’s book. We would even better be called Homo mysticum. The ape that creates and lives by myths, fictions and fantasies. If as Mr. Obnoxious aka RE alleges that your listeners thoughts turn to suicide after hearing you, I think it would be because their particular myth, fiction or fantasy does not contain an option for there being no future for them and their offspring. That would be pretty unsettling. I have pondered suicide more than once. It can be remarkably easy to slip into that mode of thinking. It is also just as easy to get over it.

    If we were sapiens or callidus it might at least seem to be possible to rally all 7 billion to some arbitrary action. Homo mysticum could perhaps be susceptible if all subscribed to one common myth, they do not. The deniers are unbeatable because they tell a major fraction of the population something they NEED to hear in order to avoid having their head explode (or something like that).

    If a recipient of your imparted knowledge shows signs of really needing some reassurance that there has to be a way through it, perhaps you could advise them to join RE’s posse and get to work on their concrete pillbox. When their proteins denature, they will be self ensconced in a prominent mausoleum of their own construction. That’s not much comfort, but for some people it might be enough.

  • My take from RE’s comment (in the comments) is that Guy’s constantly stating that there is no way to avoid near term human extinction can certainly lead to despair or other reactions that Guy may, himself, not advocate or agree with. Certainly there have been suicide related posts in the past. I think the failure of Guy to make the case for near term human extinction (other than piling up supposed positive feedbacks as though that were conclusive) should give those who may fall into despair an avenue for a less destructive reaction; though NTHE is among the long list of possible futures, it hasn’t been shown to be the only future. It’s a shame that Guy keeps claiming that it is the only future open to us. In that case, I think Guy needs to explain why the paths he advocates are better than other paths, if the ultimate outcome is unchanged.

  • @ Tony Weddle

    Yes, well we keep hearing the same old crap from you don’t we, over and over again, casting doubt on the Climate Summary, only you cannot ever actually come up with any sensible criticism. You and RE are really part of the same team, quibbling over whether NTE means 100% extinction by such and such a date or only 90% by such and such a date, and seeing as neither of you are likely to live to know it’s just how many angels fit on a pin head waste of time.

  • I’ve had the misfortune of knowing several people who have suicided. It is tragic for families and friends, believe me. Having said that, I too have contemplated suicide in my darkest hours of despair. They say it’s an act of cowardice, but I don’t think I’ve ever had the guts to pull it off. And I don’t think I could ever inflict the pain on my family.

    I have fought the good fight for over twenty years now, and it’s obvious it was all to no avail…. and now I’m looking forward to the collapse, because nothing else will save us.

    More and more people are giving up. Dave Pollard is the latest

    The world is now out of control. It needs a serious dose of population reduction, which it has been predicted by Limit to Growth will commence ~2025. HOW will those people die? There’s always famine and disease, but I also believe many will top themselves when they do a crash course from denial to acceptance with no time between the two to get used to the idea…. when the masses suddenly lose their fossil fuel entitlements and realise they have neither skills nor knowledge to deal with their new reality and that their toys no longer work…. a lot of people will suicide. The suicide rate is climbing today, and yet very little shit has hit the fan….. we live in interesting times.

  • ” You and RE are really part of the same team, quibbling over whether NTE means 100% extinction by such and such a date or only 90% by such and such a date”-UF

    You belittle this question, but it really is fundamental.

    Human Extinction, in fact the extinction of all life on earth isn’t questionable really, it is absolute destiny. The only question is precisely how long it will take for that to occur.

    The concept of NTHE puts Extinction within the lifetime of many of the people who post here, though clearly not all since many are pretty old already and likely would not live more than another 20 years regardless.

    For those who might live longer than that, the question is how do you deal with a changing climate and changing parameters for living? What can you do to have better Food Security? How can you better achieve physical security vis-a-vis Zombies who would barbecue you for dinner? Those are real questions people may face here in the spin down. I say “may” because it is not written in stone, but it sure does hold the potential for ugly outcomes on the way down.

    You can of course opt out of this mess at any time with a Bullet-Brain meeting, as Mike Ruppert did. That is one possible choice. Another possible choice is to Hospice yourself, become comfortable with dying sometime soon and make your trip to the Great Beyond easier. Maybe you make a Bucket List and do all those things you never did but always wanted to do, whatever.

    The other possibility is to try to LIVE. For how long it is possible is an open question, it is NOT written in stone that EVERYBODY will be dead by mid-century, but that is precisely what NTHE makes the case for. It is a timeline issue, and that timeline is outrageously short here. Knocking off 7B people inside 30 years just can’t happen without some amazingly powerful and comprehensive death vectors, and even then complete wipeout is hard. Its a false idea.


  • Looks like NY city showed the world who bats last:

    Let’s remember that there never has been an industrial civilization before and there never will be one again. This is unprecedented for earth and the outcome will also be unprecedented. Pouring more concrete won’t fix things but does give some of us something to do.

  • @Colin,

    Thanks. I take my risks here and accept the responses I get. I’m a passionate feeling person and that comes through my writing. I don’t think of them as rants, but as powerful expressions. Sadly, in a world of shut down people I’m rather difficult for people to be around.


    Thanks. I’m not sure I’m so wise, but I’ve always been thinking in ways that seem to evoke a reaction in others that doesn’t endear me to them. At least I know my thoughts are true and honest to myself and I self disclose to add some context and texture to the story.

    I know I HIDE behind my initials, but that’s because I’ve had enough of leaving myself completely open after a lifetime of risk taking. True courage is to overcome fear. I am a fearful person and still take actions that are difficult and challenging.

    Long ago I decided it wasn’t in my best interest to respond to you. The weakness of the SUN business plan focusing on the physical structures and not the social ones led me to believe you were following the same path as others who have failed. If you don’t more power to you. It’s a place I want to end my days in as it’s not much different from the world I’ve lived in.

    Your response demonstrates to me again you’re not listening or reading or understanding what’s being communicated. I’ve seen this happen with you before.


    Whether I’m 70, older or younger is of no importance to me. That’s a red herring. Read further and have your idea of what a “sane society” was may just be a figment of your imagination and desires and not what really was.

    Putting the blame on the medical industry is similar to your reaction to my prior post regarding being glad to have Ms. Goodman on your side. Sadly she isn’t. She’s only on her side.

    A little more disclosure here. I’m taking my shirt of and you can see the deep scars and wounds on my back and chest. Deep, deep scars received during the year I was Local Election Supervisor running the election of the Local Advisory Board for the local Pacifica station.

    Don’t believe most of you hear on air. Just as in any family or company it’s what goes on once the folks are off air that is important. There are many questions you ought to have regarding Ms. Goodman and they would only come from your reading other sources and being familiar with the behaviors of most, many of these brothers and sisters who are in front of mikes, cameras or are merely writing.

    I understand you may be older than I in numerical years; however as with myself you have much to learn for the reminder of your days on this planet.

    Just so you know I’m still mulling over your reaction (and Martin’s, Librarian’s and Grant’s to my post on prior thread). I like to let people know that what they communicate doesn’t just get ignored.

    In the meantime you reaction to my current post is certainly your right; only sadly you aren’t really informed or knowledgeable about the past. You are using your life as the baseline.

    Take a moment. Breathe. It seems you are reacting to my suggestion in a personal way. Why not ask me questions? It’s so much more courageous. I’ll answer them. Why not really read what I’m writing? Contemplate. Consider. Why would I make the suggestions I’m making unless I’ve done the work and am willing to take the leap myself? Think about the words I use and the sentences I’m writing. It’s all really right in front of you.

    Here’s a hint. No matter what anyone tells you about them not having a clue a person was going to take their life it’s absolutely not true. The truth is that we don’t want to know so we block. Even if someone is screaming before us for help we turn away.

    There are also the cases of people who are looking to not take their lives and don’t know how to find help. Just be clear that some are clear of what they want and some aren’t. People have the right to make this decision, unfortunately society takes this escape as a personal affront to their control.

    Perhaps we can’t bare when people do take their lives is because it holds a mirror up to us and show us for the cowards we are. Again I evoke the story of my past. People who didn’t get out of Germany because they were talked out of it by relatives and friends. They couldn’t allow anyone to leave when they didn’t have the courage to do so because they would have to look in the mirror and see a coward.

    Again, why was it that many who survived the camps didn’t want to see others who survived. Because they did things they didn’t want to be reminded of. Is that so hard to believe.

    Also, take a step back and think. Now really think and keep the ghosts of your past (your traumas induced by the women who abused you in your youth).

    By the way I think that the piece written by Jenna Orkin was the most open and honest representation about Mike. Unlike others she self disclosed about herself as which added a depth no one else has managed to display. Now, think, “How could he know that?”

    Our life expectancy in the past (pre 20th century) was much, much, earlier than what we think of today. Most people didn’t live to the age you have. It just makes sense. So what we think of as “old” was more along the lines of middle age today.

    Life has always been for the young. It’s always beeN youth centered because they didn’t live very long. Young people didn’t see many older people, those they did see were strange to them. You are an anomaly of the industrial age.

    Although I’d always been thinking along these lines it was because of a link from Gail to a piece Alice Friedman referred to that crystallized it for me.

    It’s a lecture by Issac Asimov to a group of students back in 1974. I’ve loved Asimov’s work and his understanding of population and limits to growth were on the mark. Sadly, he was more off the mark in what he saw as the future, but like many who become successful their projection of the future is formed by the lives they wind up living. I posted a portion of the talk below.

    The Future of Humanity: a Lecture by Isaac Asimov

    “You have to understand that throughout history, mankind has lived in a world of youth. You know, we talk about the youth-centeredness of our culture. There’s nothing else it can be. Throughout history, the life expectancy has been somewhere between twenty-five and thirty-five, depending upon the time and the place. Very few people have lived into middle-age and beyond. Very few. We’ve had a world of young, even today in those lands where the birth rate is higher…considerably higher…than the death rate. You have places where half the people are younger than fifteen.

    Well naturally, where most of the people are young, you concentrate on the young! When there are very few old people, you don’t worry about them very much. They come in handy in their small numbers. The old men were the repositories of tradition. In the days before we had written records…let alone electronic records and computers…the only people who remembered the way it used to be a long time ago…forty years ago…were old men with gray beards! So you respected them!! They represented wisdom!! And you let them rule the state and the church. The word “priest” comes from the Greek word for old, and the word senator comes from the Latin word for old…as you can tell by the relationship to senna which also comes.

    [group laughs heartily]

    And of course, the old women were feared. There were fewer old women than there were old men, because the only way a woman could become an old woman was to either have no children, or be extraordinarily lucky. Usually the former. And old women somehow suffered a great deal more than old men did because they lacked that magnificent sign of age: the beard.

    [group laughs mildly]

    Think about it! An old man had a long gray beard that covered up his entire face; it’s like looking at some kind of thicket.

    [group laughs heartily]

    A woman, however, had a bare face so that you could see the wrinkles! Which ordinary people hardly ever saw because there were hardly ever any old people to have wrinkles. Not only that, people generally lost their teeth by the time they were forty because there was no such thing as dentistry. So that, the old women had gums that came together, and it brought the chin and the nose close together, which looked funny. In fact, if you will look at the caricature of “the Witch” as we see it now on Halloween. It’s just an old woman without teeth, and with a wrinkled face. And I think a great many of the fears of witches really represented the fears of the strange appearance of old women…which of course nowadays we don’t have because old women look young.”

  • Suicide.

    Although this essay is about this topic, what is the point of going into it too heavily?
    People choose to kill themselves, and it does hurt those that care about them in most cases. But hey, that is why we are autonomous, because we can.

    It doesn’t really work either, we just come back.

    More in common than different comes to mind RE.

    Just Sayin.

  • Also,
    Guy talks essentially of the progressive loss of human habitat that will be the killer.
    Some like RE desire some practical local solutions to that, domes etc. Why the fuck not?
    Others want to prepare for the exit, why the fuck not?
    Problems arise when someone’s gotta have it all one way, even as we go to the bottleneck.
    Gees get with it guys, let people just ‘be’.
    Discussing options and scenarios is arguably fruitful for local enablement, but pointing fingers when someone has some solutions,(advisedly noted experimental solutions) is just so old world and schoolyardy.
    Not worth doing.

  • From my Facebook timeline comes this message from a friend (whom I now owe a drink). It applies to you and your ignorant, mean-spirited comments, RE.

    From Charles Bukowski to a man who needs a drink or a friend or both
    and the sweet seldom heard sound of the silence of idiots.

    “The Laughing Heart
    your life is your life
    don’t let it be clubbed into dank submission.
    be on the watch.
    there are ways out.
    there is a light somewhere.
    it may not be much light but
    it beats the darkness.
    be on the watch.
    the gods will offer you chances.
    know them.
    take them.
    you can’t beat death but
    you can beat death in life, sometimes.
    and the more often you learn to do it,
    the more light there will be.
    your life is your life.
    know it while you have it.
    you are marvelous
    the gods wait to delight
    in you.”
    ― Charles Bukowski, Betting on the Muse: Poems and Satellite Stories

    and to the idiots
    (sometimes an acronym just doesn’t cut it)
    so take this heartfelt long overdue ad hominem) and
    shove it in your mouth, because more vile idiot shit spews from your mouth
    than from your ass. Mike was Guy’s friend. And by friend I don’t mean someone who sits there waiting for you to shut the fuck up, when you never do and never will and never say anything that’s isn’t completely obvious, wrong, unnecessary or inappropriate. They were friends. Warriors on the same side in the same battle, souls cast from the same material and forged into what they were by the blazing and unrelenting hellfire of idiocy unleashed on the internet and elsewhere by the great god of technology. Just because you think it and can type it with your hairy knuckled digits doesn’t mean it’s going to be genius…IDIOT. Or morally righteous Saint Poobah of Upper Butt Crack, so with the requisite amount of respect I can hawk up from the bottom of my decaying lungs may I say once again…shut the Fuck Up…..Love Charles. P.S. I had to come back from the dead to say this, so you really owe me a drink Guy. But on the other hand of all days to come back from the dead, what could be better?

  • “there is light somewhere”

  • Testing to see of posting is possible. I have tried to recover a password and to register to no avail. Went so far as to create a new similar gmail account and haven’t received the magic email with further instructions to that new account Macinminn.

  • PMB,

    Will you get round to replying to the comments you want to get round to replying to?

    I’m expecting nothing less than a mea culpa from you, and to ask forgiveness for being so full of yourself, how much you’ve suffered, and how unworthy and shut-down everyone else is for failing to acknowledge your greatness.

    I forgive you. Just please don’t do it again.

  • “I’m saying I’m sorry, I made a mistake, I made…
    I committed a sin, I made a mistake.
    And I’m never gonna do it again.
    I never did it before
    and I’m never gonna do it again”

    Oh, Martin…loved the John Fowles reference…it’s been a long, long time.

  • The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.

    George Bernard Shaw

  • “Pouring more concrete won’t fix things but does give some of us something to do.”

    dairymandave, are you talking about RE or the Freedom Tower folks?

  • Robin Datta

    One link led to another and to another…

    But I really liked what I ended up with:

    Conversation between the child and the stag (Kingsnorth)

    when will i be free saes the cilde to the stag

    and the stag saes thu will nefer be free

    then when will angland be free

    angland will nefer be free

    then what can be done

    naht can be done

    then how moste i lif

    thu moste be triewe that is all there is

    be triewe

    be triewe


    Oz Man/Martin

    Thanks. Great posts.

  • ” It applies to you and your ignorant, mean-spirited comments, RE.”- GM

    Maybe it’s just me, but to me “mean spirited” is

    “The Church of Euthanasia: Save the Planet- Kill Yourself”

    My comments are worthy of a smackdown, but that isn’t?

    “Long ago I decided it wasn’t in my best interest to respond to you.”-PMB

    Then why are you responding?

    Developing community is the most important (and difficult) part of the SUN project. It is far more important than whether you live in ferrocement domes or mud huts.

    Far as undertanding goes, it appears to me you don’t understand very much or listen to what I say at all. You appear to have your own ideas fixed in your mind, and don’t pay much attention to what other people say.


  • @ RE

    If you are offended by the Church of Euthanasia’s message, then why don’t you take it up with THEM, on THEIR site, RE ?

    Pat puts that on his comments, because that’s HIS personal take and he’s just one of hundreds of people who comment here, with hundreds of different points of view.

    He’s entitled to his personal view, which is radical nihilism, and, personally, I have considerable respect for him. He’s thought his position through and he’s sincere, genuine, courageous and remarkable.
    There are not many people like him, whereas people like you, determined to survive at any cost, are ten a penny.

    As Guy said, there’s free speech here, and Guy doesn’t endorse Pat’s views any more that he endorses mine or yours.

    @ Red Fox

    Btw keep meaning to say hi and keep forgetting :-)

  • Guy, RE. I’ve been visiting this blog for years. I plan to in the future. But please can the petty bickering. I send this blog as a link to those to whom I think can handle it, and I don’t want them to discount the science and the prognosis due to philosophical discussions about appropriate ways to die. Duh.

    Haven’t any of you died before? Is it ever meaningful? Is there ever a purpose to your death? Is voluntary lead poisoning less honorable than waiting for a stroke or cancer? Do you have any idea what it’s like to live with a mental illness for 6 decades only to know that you are now in an end-game where it eats you alive and leaves you nothing but an embarrassing shell? I’ve talked people down from suicide — all young. And I understand what a tragedy a wasted life is. But I will not venture to guess the anguish Mike endured on a daily basis and will not presume to judge. I suggest you don’t either lest you get to find out what he went through. Stop sublimating your grief into internecine battles. Today this applies to RE. A couple months ago, Guy went after a doomer on the lecture circuit who still cared to read “the market” signs. If you’re going to bother to live longer than Mike did, you’ll have to drop these resentments and stay focused.

    While I dwell on the personal… Moving to the NM desert was not the biggest mistake of your life Guy. You have a good lecture. But the draw you have is your story — what you went through that allows yourself the clarity you now have. Sorry. But without the story rough as it is, you’d just be another dull professor. Without the clarity, you’d just know but never be articulate. Find some acceptance with this and the ride will get smoother.

    Now make nice and keep sounding the alarm.

  • “Pat puts that on his comments, because that’s HIS personal take and he’s just one of hundreds of people who comment here, with hundreds of different points of view.

    He’s entitled to his personal view, which is radical nihilism, and, personally, I have considerable respect for him. He’s thought his position through and he’s sincere, genuine, courageous and remarkable.”-UF

    Obviously he is not sincere and genuine since he is still ambulatory and able to keyboard out that message.


  • James Howard Kunstler’s latest on the Clusterfuck Nation:

    What’s Been and What’s Next

  • @ RE

    ..he is still ambulatory..

    You know that ?

    What if he is ? What business is it of yours ?

  • @Ulvfugl; no problem;I’m finding a certain number of comments on this site very thought provoking (sometimes more than the actual (guest) articles. Previous to re-finding Guy’s site ive been coming at things from an ELF/DGR/FC/GA perspective. Im now trying to understand and come to terms with the science aspect more fully. Currently based in Iceni territory!
    Keep on at it…
    Love and rage.

  • By our actions, we are known.

    Some are still screaming that survival is all important. They scream and scream at others as if their volume makes them right.

    Others assert things with no evidence. Having shared that my sister committed suicide and that my mother made a good try at it, I can assure you that, sometimes, there really isn’t any warning. Saying that there is always warning and that people block that is hurtful at best and simply untrue at worst.

    I planned my own and I can assure you that NO ONE had a clue. I elected not to do it at that time, but I reserve the right to off myself whenever I feel it is time.

    We heard Guy speak and left, depressed of course, because the world is in a death spiral and there is very little any one of us can do about it.

    At no time have I ever heard or believed that Guy was or is promoting suicide….quite the contrary, he advocates love and compassion, something that is lacking on this board at times.

    I understand rage and resistance and fighting and support those choices, but I also understand that every person is different and that each individual, especially here, is doing the very best they can.

    Many thanks to the people who contribute here without attacking others.

  • Hello all,

    3 subjects to address.

    1. I find I am unable to post to this comment stream if I paste a text or rich text from the laptop I am using. Typing directly into this box or pasting from another tab on the Chrome browser works. On the attempts to post the text pasted comment an error message 403 is generated. I find it easier to draft my comments locally on my text editor. I don’t know if I need to be a registered user to do this, or not? I have been waiting for a reply to my attempt to register. Suggestions or assistance would be appreciated.

    2. I have been reading this site daily, for a year or so, and posting as well. I was hoping to post information about the Phone Bridge I have set up for folks like us to talk together. I have written a somewhat tongue in cheek derivation of the Adult Children Anonymous 12 Step program as a vehicle to explore the problems of finding ourselves as Adult Children of Civilization trying to recover from the dysfunctional myths and cosmologies of Civilization and Empire. At least one regular member of this forum has termed it “outrageously good!” and will be participating. However, due to my inability to paste text into this comment box, and successfully post it to the thread I can only present it this way.

    Regular phone meetings begin on Monday April 28 at 6:30 pm CDT.

    If interested, contact Mac in MN at the email I have set up to manage this effort – I will discuss the details with those who are interested. I also, wish to reassure everyone that the expectations for the meeting are high regarding mutual respect, respect for the process, and focusing on the cognitive and emotional impacts of living with this wrenching awareness of collapse.

    Blessings and abundance to all, no exceptions,

    Mac in Mn

  • I decided to not address my third issue. And yes I am a bit math-lexic.


  • Obviously he is not sincere and genuine since he is still ambulatory and able to keyboard out that message.

    Abstract thinking:
    “the final, most complex stage in the development of cognitive thinking, in which thought is characterized by adaptability, flexibility, and the use of concepts and generalizations. Problem solving is accomplished by drawing logical conclusions from a set of observations, such as making hypotheses and testing them. This type of thinking is developed by 12 to 15 years of age, usually after some degree of education. In psychiatry, many disorders are characterized by the inability to think abstractly. Compare concrete thinking, syncretic thinking.”

  • Suggestions or assistance would be appreciated.

    When pasting into the comment box, two steps are important.

    1. Press the spacebar at least once after the comment appears in the comment box. Some spam monitoring algorithms will reject a post when they do not detect keyboard activity.

    2. Allow some time to elapse after the comment appears in the comment box. Some spam monitoring algorithms will reject a comment if sufficient time has not elapsed between first keyboard activity and the submit/send button. It would be a good idea to press the spacebar for a second time (or “enter”) at this point before submit/send.

  • Thank you Robin.

    I will try those shortly – the dog needs a walk and I could use one too.

    Mac in Mn

  • @ Robin
    Oh well, tried the suggestions. And waited a very long time with intermittent compensatory keyboard activity. No luck.

    Could be my old xp pro system.

    Thanks again,

    Mac in Mn

  • @Mac in Mn

    It is said that many web servers are configured to reject Rich Text POSTed from a Plain Text Field. I believe the solution would be to use a plain text editor.

  • wildwoman: There has yet to be a serious discussion of suicide on this board from what I can tell. There’s strong emotions voiced, but very little discussion. We are moving rapidly to the point where suicide will be the number one cause of death in all age groups, though clearly younger children will be killed by their parents before the parents take their own lives. Suicide is still a big taboo subject and people with more or less grounded belief systems still find suicide as something that is not talked about, least someone catches it. Given what we know about climate change, collapse in various systems, rapidly approaching NTE you’d think that suicide wouldn’t be avoided, but here we are. The Judo-Christian stain runs deep. Perhaps if the word was better sugar-coated, people could manage to look at it closer. So how would you voluntarily shorten your life span? My plan, if it comes down to it, is to take a long swim in Lake Michigan. Certainly rather swim than starve to death.

  • One Second After is a 2009 fiction novel by American writer William R. Forstchen. The book’s premise sets the stage for a series of “die-offs”.

    The first die-off takes place within a week (those in hospitals and assisted living). After about 15 days, salmonella-induced typhoid fever and cholera set in from eating tainted food, drinking tainted water, and generally poor sanitation. (Americans have lived in an environment of easy hygiene, sterilization, and antibiotics, making them prime targets for third-world diseases.)

    The second die-off wave results from lack of bathing and poor diet leading to rampant feminine hygiene infections; deep cuts, rusty nail punctures, and dog bites. These go untreated with antibiotics, tetanus shots, or rabies treatment as more die from common infections.

    The third wave of die-off results from violence. Medical supply thieves, food thieves, and law-breakers are executed in public under martial law.

    The forth wave occurs in 30 days when cardiac and other drug-dependent patients die off. In 60 or so days, the pacemaker and Type I diabetics patients begin to die off. The 6% of population having severe psychotic disorders who no longer have medication re-create bedlam and are dispatched. Makeshift wood-burning stoves lead to carbon monoxide deaths as well as fires that cannot be controlled due to the lack of a fire department.

    In the fifth wave, refugees from the cities show up looking for food and shelter and fighting over scarce resources leads to confrontation, home invasion, and more violence-related die-offs. The community becomes an inviting target for escaped prisoners and organized gangs and more violence-related die-off.

    In the sixth wave, ration cards are issued to conserve the little remaining food; regardless, the community slowly starves, with the elderly the first to die off. Next, parents starve themselves to save their children. Throughout this period suicides are common. After a year, approximately 20% of the initial population has “survived”.

    The “average” die-off for the country was 90% leaving 30 million surviving out of original 300 million US population. The food-rich Midwest had the highest survival rate with a 50% die-off. New York City and Florida had a 95% die-off from infighting among their large populations, low levels of cultivated land, high elderly population, a lack of air conditioning, rampant transmission of disease, and natural disasters such as hurricanes.

  • wildwoman

    I’m saddened to hear you got to the point of practically planning your exit, but more than equally glad you postponed it!
    Many years back a woman I knew well took he own at 30. Her parents, whom I also knew a little, were devastated, completely gutted, and out of wild wounding blamed her recent ex boyfriend. I and a few other friends had to work hard for the parents to let him attend the funeral, and he was allowed to, but was not allowed to speak.
    The actual human angle, strangely enough, is left behind when peoples often uninspected views take over, and seeing another’s pain, grief, and wounded heart should be the sign that opens us to that dimension, and know that we are very very vulnerable beings-and at the same time very powerful in other ways.
    I hope you are travelling well for now. Please ask Guy to send you my email, I have an artwork as a gift for you, if you like.

    I tend to reject the notion that pre-organised agriculture and Civ we were living very short lives. No actual evidence that concludes that.

    A good book to look at Hobbsian fallacies and entrenched Christian dogma still lingering in Anthropology and Archaeology Academia on Monogamy(refutation of) is ‘Sex at Dawn’. Too many detais to chronicle here.

    The wise ape has to have a culture and education free from dogma, and in touch with the world energies, for that wisdom to come to the fore. In earlier times Elders were the ones with wisdom, and experience, which greatly assisted with life and biosphere related issues.

    In modern times, knowing how to respond to anyone in distress, regardless of kinship relations, is a great skill. Soon there will be many more people ‘in distress’, from many angles, and we all could help by tuning our forks to help others.
    I think this is what Carolyn is really talking about, not just suicide, or the actual exit. How to help others who, seemingly without choosing it, find themselves in a less empowered situation than they envisaged, with regard to life provision and mortality. Extend that to NTHE and it is a big call to remain honourably human.
    Not saying they have all the solutions, but the Energy Decent Plan from the Transition people, and at Totnes:

    go into the problems consciously- and collectively it seems. Will any of it be viable, on any kind of NTE scale?
    Who the hell knows.
    Will my protected vegie patch survive extremes of temp, drought, and frost, and maybe selfish interlopers?
    We just don’t know.
    Guy puts the data first, and in his interpretation, the biosphere is losing rapidly the ability to support human, and other life forms. The feedbacks he posits look like making the whole picture move to runnaway, and in his estimation it is already there.
    That is not just raining on the parade, (AKA Hudson), it is cancelling the parade and giving all the money back for tickets!!
    A lot of people aren’t there yet, and Guy will be probably eternally rejected by a big portion of ‘listeners’ for having the massage we are too far gone-not one he started out with I might emphasise.
    He grieved as he wrote:
    ‘Were Done’
    I expect it was a very big deal for the man.
    So like many of us, Guy is on a journey, and he probably fumbles in the dark and screams in his mind that none of what he lectures were so – but hey, facts is facts, or data is data, and it will be pretty clear in a few winters when the Arctic ice goes for good how much in the pipe will come down heavy on the heat engines we have going. Making Guy’s predictions, or assessments correct will not make anyone least him happier. But the responsibility fell to him, to go out and tell the truth as he sees it.
    That is some kind of Integrity in my book, and not just because it is an anti message. In many of the sacred traditions, Fourth stage understanding only comes through the door we call ‘Death’. First lesson is usually to contemplate death as a real inevitability, and we are getting that on a collective level now, not just cold war threats on one side or other. We have to accept death is a part of life guys.

    I live in that now famed Southern Hemisphere, a place that will perhaps be refuge for the wealthy movables.
    However, let me say this, living in crisis may be the best thing for all, then people drop their bullshit conditioning about class and higher or lower stuff, and just get in and work for the common good. The least best outcome is all those people come on down to Afridia and pretend it is a normal day out, and recreate the stuffy shallow life programs they have adapted to at home, (old home).
    That wont wash guys, because that is what generated the conditions we have now.
    We are going to have to change, and better to do it while we can choose to, and have some discretion as to how the shit hits us.
    Tribal leaders full of shit will no doubt stick their heads up, and that is going to be a problem, but hopefully we will have some wise apes among us.
    Be wary of the one who tells you they can supply you with this and that. Better is the one who shows you how to get something, or teaches a skill for the basics, and minds equality and honour, not force and coercion in all relations.
    Gees guys, I wish you all the bast.

    Guy and RE, if you two can mend fences -no, if you can’t mend fences, what does that say to all the listeners about how to go beyond the horses-hit way of life? We need better than that for the next decades guys. Everyone has something to bring to the party, so lets just concentrate on what we share….
    Domes, compassion, communal hospice, learning (relearning) groups, we need them all folks….just share…..please!
    And crack a smile once in a while too.

  • “The “average” die-off for the country was 90% leaving 30 million surviving out of original 300 million US population. The food-rich Midwest had the highest survival rate with a 50% die-off. New York City and Florida had a 95% die-off from infighting among their large populations, low levels of cultivated land, high elderly population, a lack of air conditioning, rampant transmission of disease, and natural disasters such as hurricanes.”-MMM

    How did Alaska do?


  • As life’s last days sublimate – from deceiving solid to impalpable ghost, shall desperation suckling upon bitter frustration block out all joie de vivre? As the pressure mounts shall humans be ever more likely to go dark inside before they die? Obviously, demise is experienced individually. For each person, their life is the world. The magnitude of extinction is each individual life multiplied by the large but finite, exact human population. Will our candles be snuffed out, then melt?

    Mourning for the future will be a popular pastime. This is not a simple death. This is the theft, the loss, the murdering of the future. This is arrival at the legendary edge of the ocean – no beach, no shore, the sea simply ends, abruptly, somewhere in its middle, at its deepest part. Then nothing more.

    When I was a kid I wondered sometimes about all the effort people made to gather knowledge. They were going to die. What was the point? They couldn’t take knowledge with them. Then I realized that to know the world, it has to be illuminated. Knowledge was the illumination. Knowing the world brings beauty and pain. Nichiren wrote: “Enjoy what there is to enjoy, suffer what there is to suffer.” (it’s all part of life)

    Whether it be a minute or years left, feeling even a moment of joie de vivre in the increasing darkness has more value than the heaviest diamond. It is the holy grail. It makes life worth the candle and it is the spark that ignites the candle. It defines and gives shape to the meaning of life. A reason to inhale.


    Meanwhile… it’s:
    Extinction Week at the PBS NewsHour

    I’m sure PBS will do their best to normalize extinction. The same way they are normalizing the homeless. When ‘trusted authorities’ make something outrageous officially normal, ubiquitous and acceptable, it dulls the natural shock a bit. It provides permission to ignore the outrage. And the outrage tends to be ignored. They’ll make extinction boring and ordinary. Even less realistic than torture. Water it down. Disney land it. Stereotype it. Associate the word with the loss of things of little value, like pennies, old burger joints and other nuisances. On a show about extinction, it seems highly unlikely that the PBS NewsHour will broach the topic of NTHE. Not newsworthy. Perhaps someone will bring it up for them:

    From their article:
    “And we’d like you to help us find things in your world that are going extinct. Share a photo of the vacant burger joint that used to bring life to your neighborhood’s corner, or the empty shopping mall collecting dust down the street. We’re collecting them on Instagram and Facebook under the hashtag #extinctionweek.”

    I bet they’d love a picture of my old pet dodo bird, if I still had that fine feathered friend. Hmmm, right, things in my world that aren’t quite totally extinct… yet. Probably send a snap shot from space of Mother Earth. Too trite?

  • ulvfugl,

    I guess your comment was directed at me (and RE), though you didn’t use the name that I comment with (I use your commenting name so I don’t know why you don’t use mine).

    Yes, the timeline matters. If extinction is not yet assured (for 100 years, 1000 years or 1 million years) then that is important. Guy is talking about near term human extinction, not some time human extinction. Neither you nor Guy has ever made the clear case for near term human extinction, preferring instead to try to find more and more positive feedbacks as though the sheer number of feedbacks makes the case. Even those feedbacks have attracted some reasoned criticism, so it appears the list is there just to provide a stacking place for any mention of some possible feedback no matter what the actual science behind it.

    As long as Guy thinks it’s fine to claim near term human extinction based on his beliefs, then there is room for people to think that another future is possible (and, in case you need reminding, I don’t believe that there is any chance of a easy comfortable future outside of a decade or two, but that doesn’t mean extinction). No one knows the future but Guy (and you) keeps claiming that he does. In fairly high detail.

  • Guy, don’t lose your cool over what RE posts, by quoting someone else’s tirade. Just explain why the climate factors you mention in your update can stand up to the criticisms they’ve received and how they lead, inevitably, to near term human extinction.

  • Lidia, regarding my statement:

    “Pouring more concrete won’t fix things but does give some of us something to do.”

    dairymandave, are you talking about RE or the Freedom Tower folks?

    I think you got it. Better to be general in this case. Fact is, I am building a house, according to code. No mud huts allowed in this area. Gives me something to do while we wait. The house is for a daughter, a single mom. Am still farming, too. Finished seeding alfalfa yesterday. Lots of “action” around here.

    I tend to not participate in discussions about suicide. Back in 2005 a daughter, 38, hanged herself here on the farm. My wife, Sandy, helped me cut her down with my jack knife. Hardest thing I ever did. Cried for a week and drowned myself in work to escape. These events are painful for the survivors. She had 2 teenagers at the time. She was suffering from schizophrenia and I can’t fully imagine the pain she must have suffered to drive her to do it. Mike Ruppert responded with sympathy and support as a member of our group as did many others in the group. I was grateful.

  • Chinese Toast: The Rant


  • Look. With death, I believe the light simply goes out. This is very attractive to people who detest the shape the world is in. Why live amongst this impenetrable shit! Mr. Ruppert finally got up the courage to end his terror. I will eventually do the same thing.

    The ONLY positive about this world is that the elites are sure gonna get theirs in the end. The negative to that is there is NO judgment. At least the reign will end at some point, close by.

  • I have been following Guy McPherson for quite some time and have never heard him advocate suicide.

    I also listened regularly to Mike Ruppert, and feel deeply greatful for all the work he did throughout his life to, against all odds, denounce the system we live in, the lies, the misinformation, the manipulation.

    I wish he Rest in Peace now, as he deserves.

    And, may I add, I never saw Mike dying of old age, in some crappy retirement home. Perhaps, I wonder, suicide in the Native Indian culture, in which he had become so immersed in the later years, tells a different version about what it is to choose to go when you feel you have already contributed all you had. I will miss him.

    And I appreciate Guy’s bravery to continue to talk about what hardly anybody else doesn’t, because, yes, it’s too scary, even if probably is the truth.

  • It is hard to believe we are the tree
    It is hard to believe we are not
    It is hard to believe we are the ant
    It is hard to believe we are not
    It is hard to believe we are alive
    It is hard to believe we are going to die
    It is Hard to believe

  • The negative to that is there is NO judgment.

    I see this as a positive. Every man is a good man in his own eyes. His neighbour probably has a different opinion of him. The sooner one dispenses with the idea that there are good people and bad, and the childish longing for cosmic justice, dispensed by the great architect of the universe, the greater will be your sanity, peace of mind and, probably, you will be a better neighbour for it, too.

    How many of us have seen the Jack T. Chick pamphlet, This Was Your Life?


  • @dairymandave……deepest sympathies. 2005 is pretty recent. My sister died in 1995 at 42 after a lifetime of depression. What you experienced and are experiencing sounds pretty horrible. You got an up close and personal look… sorry for your loss.

    Sometimes we compound the problem by lying about cause of death. My parents covered up my sisters many attempts prior to her “success”, calling them car accidents or whatever.

    It fucks up the survivors, for sure. How do you accept the fact that someone you loved hurt so bad they wanted to be dead?

    We don’t get so angry at people who die from cancer or heart attacks or natural causes, but when younger people elect to take their lives, it feels like a “fuck you” to the living.

    At least, it does to me, sometimes.

    @OzMan….no worries. Paxil saved my life. I resisted meds for YEARS before I finally gave in, tried a couple, and found one that worked for me. Better living through chemistry is true, in my case.

    Now, however, suicide is on the table as an option. One of my goals in life is to depart it without having been raped or otherwise assaulted….I want to beat the odds of patriarchy. Good luck on that, huh?

    @Grant, I hear drowning isn’t a bad way to go. Not for me, for sure, but if swimming Lake Michigan doesn’t make you gag these days, it might be pleasant. Last time I was at the lake it was so dirty I didn’t want to go in.

  • Sometimes we compound the problem by lying about cause of death. My parents covered up my sisters many attempts prior to her “success”, calling them car accidents or whatever.

    It fucks up the survivors, for sure. How do you accept the fact that someone you loved hurt so bad they wanted to be dead?

    Perhaps if you are lied to about the cause of death, and discover it much later, you will be better able to accept that the person who loved you also rejected you in such a complete and permanent way. It worked for me.

    Someone earlier commenting about Michael Ruppert’s death surmised that he was depressed, and that depression closes in on itself in such a way that you can see nothing else. Al Alvarez, in the landmark study of suicide, The Savage God, noted that becoming suicidal is like entering a tunnel, in which what you are about to do seems so utterly right. You can see nothing else but the urgency and necessity of your own death.

    By one of those strange coincidences, in 1987, I was reading this book and had a copy on me when I visited a city where a relative lived. That was when I learned that my father’s death in 1972 was a suicide. We had been told that he died of renal failure as a consequence of an injury he sustained while training for the Korean War.

    I took the news with equanimity and ran myself a hot bath. The book had prepared me, of course, but also, so had the intervening years. As a child in 1972 I would not have understood, but, as an adult, having been beset with depression myself, it was a no-brainer.

  • First of all, it depends on what you mean by NTHE: zero humans? How long to get to that point: few decades, several decades, a century, two centuries, or more centuries? Does one mean the start of the process (and it is a process) or the end?

    I think Guy’s feedbacks don’t have to be all right: just a few them are enough to cause extinction level events on their own (the ones related to the Arctic). I think we’re facing an extinction style event and I’ve personally set my bellwether to be whether I observe the Arctic ice going away in the summer (the start of the NTHE process) to the Arctic ice going away entire year (the end of the NTHE process). That is related to a variety of other processes, including methane release, albedo loss, and the flow of atmospheric and oceanic currents.

    I will say that I don’t subscribe to what I call a defeatist view, which is that even in the face of what seems like utter defeat, I still will try to not succumb to that feeling of defeat – it has to happen before I accept it. This is my personality from as far back as I can remember and NTHE isn’t the only issue I feel this way about: I’ve gone through what I’d literally call hell but yet seem to have survived it (and people had written me off and I myself have written myself off logically but something in me refused to give up and here I am). I’ve seen other individuals do it and I’ve even seen some populations do it (and I also think unless you’ve survived scenarios like this, you at best only have a second-hand idea of what I’m talking about, just like I didn’t until I went through it myself). Certainly life on earth itself has survived many catastrophes since its inception and I think some of these have been bigger than what we’re facing now—will life on the planet survive a sixth extinction? So far the system is 5/5 in this regard, and each time the system has come stronger (cf. Nietzsche) eventually (and somewhat incidentally I believe) giving rise to us.

    To me that is the most fascinating question: will humanity be among the species that make it. It’s an applied test of certain evolutionary ideas, as well as ideas in complex systems. I think bacteria will make it, as they have since their lineage began. The archaea may thrive in hostile environments and in a couple of hundred million years, who knows, another sentient life form capable of directed genetic engineering may emerge as a consequence of their evolution, quite different from us. Hopefully some plants, animals, and insects make it as well.

    I think the most likely outcome is that humans will indeed go extinct (I’ll know for sure once the Arctic ice completely disappears) because to get around it requires cooperation on a massive scale though I’ve commented on the other type of solution also available (a small band of humans somehow miraculously manage to survive). I also think defeatist or not, the end conclusion I have is the same as many others here: we have to LIVE life in the moment and enjoy it to the fullest and try to give back to the world more than we take from it.

    In terms of timing, I don’t think (and feel) that I’ll be alive to see the end, if it does occur. My children may, but they will nearing the end of their lifespan.


    “Extinction Week at the PBS NewsHour

    I’m sure PBS will do their best to normalize extinction. The same way they are normalizing the homeless. When ‘trusted authorities’ make something outrageous officially normal, ubiquitous and acceptable, it dulls the natural shock a bit. It provides permission to ignore the outrage. And the outrage tends to be ignored. They’ll make extinction boring and ordinary. Even less realistic than torture. Water it down. Disney land it. Stereotype it. Associate the word with the loss of things of little value, like pennies, old burger joints and other nuisances. On a show about extinction, it seems highly unlikely that the PBS NewsHour will broach the topic of NTHE. Not newsworthy. Perhaps someone will bring it up for them.”

    you’re THE FIRST (AND ONLY) PERSON I’ve SEEN NAIL pbs. (Caplocks oops). But they’re like this about everything important, that is a threat to life on Earth. Warmed over piss is my term for PBS, but that’s like throwing a swear word in place of a reasoned explanation…

    I once used the word “Chinaman” in a conversation with my then best friend and his very dear Chinese friend. They both look as if they’d been hit. It’s one of those (compensatory?) behavior gaffs that I’m likely never to forget.

  • @RE

    How did Alaska do ?

    Be careful about welcoming ‘help’ from the U.S. Navy up yonder.
    The Empire’s military here is lowering math and language standards, and Alaska & Manhattan have the same number of syllables.

    I looked for an example of musique concrete that would work with your dome project, but they were all a little too abstract.

  • Ram

    I think I get what you mean by “…it has to happen before I believe it.” If we are face with too much complexity to sort out, strange as it might be, might it make more sense to plot the way forward based on what actually is happening now?

  • dairymandave –

    wow. that hit me hard. you have my deepest sympathies as well. I am so sorry to hear of your loss, and what you had to go through, and what your daughter must have been going through to do something like that, leaving two teenage children behind.

    wildwoman – I am very glad you are still here.

    logspirit – so beautiful, as always.

    we all have freedom, we all have to find our own answers. and hopefully, we can be there to help anyone sort through what is really going on – help to heal if we can, help to live if that is what is really desired, and help to die if that is what is really desired.

  • Does one mean the start of the process (and it is a process) or the end?

    From the Wikipedia entries:

    “In biology and ecology, extinction is the end of an organism or of a group of organisms (taxon), normally a species. The moment of extinction is generally considered to be the death of the last individual of the species, although the capacity to breed and recover may have been lost before this point.”

    Extinction event:
    “An extinction event (also known as a mass extinction or biotic crisis) is a widespread and rapid decrease in the amount of life on earth. Such an event is identified by a sharp change in the diversity and abundance of macroscopic life. It occurs when the rate of extinction increases with respect to the rate of speciation.”

    Unless otherwise specified, an “extinction level event” and an “extinction style event” may count as “extinction events”.

    “Arctic ice going away entire year” is a continuum of the loss of ice from a decrease in ice volume. It may be a marker for conditions leading habitat loss through associated effects.

    Also from the Wikipedia:

    Jack T. Chick
    “Jack Thomas Chick (born April 13, 1924) is an American publisher, writer, and comic book artist of evangelical fundamentalist Christian tracts and comic books

    Chick’s company, Chick Publications, claims to have sold over 750 million tracts,[4] comics tracts and comic books, videos, books, and posters designed to promote Protestant evangelism from a Christian fundamentalist perspective or point of view. Many of these are controversial, as they accuse Roman Catholics, Freemasons, Muslims and many other groups of murder and conspiracies,[5] while Chick maintains his views are simply politically incorrect.”

    Reference to “the great architect of the universe” is commonly associated with freemasonry.

  • I know Great Architect is commonly associated with Freemasonry, Robin. Duh. I also happen to think that the “G” associated with American Freemasonry stands for “gynaecology.”

    I could have sent “be sent to hell forever and ever by a cipher with a lightbulb for a head who sounds like he is reading from a script,” but I decided to be kind to the Demiurge for a change.

  • Quote from: Jeannine on April 20, 2014, 05:56:33 PM
    I don’t think it’s the talk of hospice that encouraged Mike Ruppert to commit suicide. One factor that set Mike apart from many other truth tellers is that his journey was so up close and personal with the powers of darkness and lies. He was in the CIA, not just talking about the CIA, he was in the LA police dept, not just talking from a distance.

    Mike never worked for the CIA that I have ever heard of. And when he quit the LAPD he didn’t say at the time it was because of the CIA. That came later in the 90’s, after someone else had already pitched the idea. I believe that guy killed himself as well. Gary Webb I believe.

    Note the dates. The story came out before Mike became “famous” for confronting Deutch, assuming you haven’t watched the actual event and concluded that there was no confrontation, Deutch was actually trying to help more Mikey out and demanding that the crowd listen, and provide him with a place to report what he was claiming at the time.

    Mikey made his claim in November.

    And for the first time as best I can tell (having read his performance reviews, his letter of resignation, and everything else Mike published contemporary to his quitting the LAPD) that is when Mike suddenly claims to have seen, or been recruited, for letting the CIA do whatever.

    Certainly when he quit he didn’t say ANY of those things. But when someone else had already done the legwork..and it was on the news…well….Mikey always had a flare for the dramatic, right up through Apocalypse Man.

    Quote from: Jennine
    He was in the thick of it and couldn’t leave it alone. I don’t know how long a person can endure that kind of heartbreak.

    Heartbreak? How about this idea….how many times can you pimp something, and when the reaction you get becomes more giggles than it does thoughtful nodding, how long can the ego stand the downfall?

    From pamphleteer running a small business, expanding into a better area (Oregon) and then having ones bad behavior flaunted in public, in front of a state bureaucracy that then documents all of it for posterity? Crap, for his ego it must have been worse than having a felony record.

    Quote from: Jennine
    At core, I sense Mike Ruppert was a true romantic in the sense that he really believed life should be better, kinder, more caring and true. Maybe he just couldn’t be content with doing his best and releasing the outcome to some greater plan. He will be truly missed.

    I’m not so sure the word is “romantic” when it comes to the behavior older men display around younger women.

  • In terms Arctic ice, I recognise/agree it’s a process also, which is why I use it as an analogy. It has already started: the summer ice going to zero, the entire year at zero, and what happens before and after are all part of a broader process which include multiple feedbacks, but I consider this to specify a measurable range of tipping points (if forced to, I would put the midpoint of NTHE at the loss of Arctic summer ice actually, since it is such an important system for the regulation of climate in the system). If you look at Guy’s feedbacks, many of them can be traced to this scenario where cause and effect are mixed up. It won’t matter once the ice starts to go, and is gone, how it happens – the process will continue on its own in the form result in another catastrophe for the system. Methane, albedo, air currents, oceanic currents, rising sea levels, even soot from wild fires, etc. feed back and/or into the loss of Arctic ice.

    Yet, as has happened with the last five great extinctions (some of which were indeed labelled so even before the death of the last organism, though this is not consistent), every catastrophe has been a rebirth of sorts for the Earth System. The issue, if there is any, is whether 10K or so humans survive through this, and what collateral damage we’ll end up causing (which is already occurring).

  • “I looked for an example of musique concrete that would work with your dome project, but they were all a little too abstract.”-IO

    Love Miami 2017. I think I have it up on the Diner Juke Box at least 3 times

    “First of all, it depends on what you mean by NTHE: zero humans? How long to get to that point: few decades, several decades, a century, two centuries, or more centuries? Does one mean the start of the process (and it is a process) or the end?”-RS

    Extinction means EVERYBODY DEAD. As long as there are Homo Sapiens around procreating, the species is not extinct. Far as I know, the NTHE hypothesis is not that we will BEGIN dying off by mid-century, but that EVERYONE WILL BE DEAD by mid-century. If everyone is not dead by then, the hypothesis fails.


  • I wish I would’ve met you;
    now it’s a little late.
    What you could’ve taught me,
    I could have saved some face.
    They think that
    —your early ending—
    was all wrong.
    For the most part they’re right,
    but look how they all got strong.
    That’s why I say:
    Hey man, nice shot!
    What a good shot man.
    A man has gun.
    Hey man, have fun.
    Nice shot!


  • Wildwoman: Lake Michigan is larger than whatever beach you visited. Obviously, if I’m going out for a long swim, how the beach looks at the time isn’t going to be high on my priorities. At the same token, if I choose to blow my brains out in the back seat of the car, I really doubt that I will have the car gassed up and the body cleaned before I pull the trigger. It’s suicide, not house cleaning after all.

    RE writes “EVERYONE WILL BE DEAD by mid-century. If everyone is not dead by then, the hypothesis fails.” Except it is not a hypothesis, is it? NTE isn’t an experiment with blue ribbons for the person who gets it the most right. You’re busy trying to play a game when it’s not a game to be played. You’re looking for Winners and Losers in a system that doesn’t consider winning at all. This is why people find you so tedious and useless to be around. Wake up! This isn’t a contest. No one gets bragging rights by outlasting their neighbor by three weeks — oh well, you do. As if that is going to fucking matter. Make yourself a brass plate award right now reading “Not Dead Yet.” Keep telling yourself that. Maybe someday it will be true. Stupid zombie.

  • The passing of Mike Ruppert can be seen through a variety of filters however suicide should be understood for what it really is. There is Eros (the drive to live, love, be creative and sexual, involving species preservation) and Thanatos (the drive devoted to aggression, destruction violence and death). Mike’s enemies were many and powerful. He couldn’t win. They beat him down financially, mentally and emotionally. They assassinated his character with a more powerful media message and destroyed him. When his aggression wasn’t enough to defend himself he turned it around. directed it toward himself and ended the struggle. Defeated, he fell on his sword. I see his end as the noble death of a worthy warrior. Valhalla was waiting for him.

  • WOAH! Blindsided again! When will it end?

    “PORTLAND- State Labor Commissioner Brad Avakian has issued a final order in the 2006 sexual harassment case against From the Wilderness, Inc. (FTWI) and Michael Ruppert of Ashland. In addition to awarding lost wages, Comm. Avakian ordered $125,000 in mental and emotional suffering damages paid to Lindsay Gerken for the workplace harassment and retaliation she suffered during her less than three months of employment at FTWI. The damage award, the largest in BOLI’s history, reflects the egregious conduct of Ruppert as well as the reinvigoration of civil rights enforcement by Commissioner Avakian.”

    Hmmmm, the haunted look and the suicide are becoming more understandable. Mike must have been a very lonely man without much hope. I wonder why he didn’t confess to all his followers…very, very sad. Sad for him and for us.

    @MKing, are you sure this is true?

  • Ram,

    By NTHE (though he doesn’t like to use the acronym, I understand), Guy means the extinction of our species in the near term (along with 99.9% of other species). That doesn’t leave any of our species, at all. He doesn’t see it, as far as I’m aware, as a process lasting many decades or centuries. Extinction by mid-century (with no humans in some parts of the world, long before that) is what Guy is predicting. Almost all predictions turn out to be wrong, of course,

  • ” Stupid zombie.”-GS

    Napalm, the last refuge of the intellectually bankrupt. If you don’t have a decent argument, pitch insults instead.

    Of course it is a hypothesis. It’s a hypothetical; it hasn’t occurred and there is no proof it will, just some evidence which suggests it is a possibility.

    It isn’t a matter of winning or losing, merely a matter of accuracy. If you are contending Homo Sapiens will be Extinct by Mid-Century, you are saying every last one will be dead by that time. It is a highly unlikely outcome on such a short timeline.