Five Reasons “For,” One “Against”

by Alton C. Thompson

And the winner is . . . “one against”!

According to Juan Cole, there are at least “5 Reasons Solar Energy Will Save the World.”  This article heading appears under the heading:

Thompson graphic for NBL

 

 

 

Since Cole has declared his 5 reasons to be examples of “informed comment,” I guess that we should accept them as such.  (Just kidding!)

Before making a decision as to whether or not we should accept his 5 reasons as “gospel,” it would only be fair to begin here by noting what they are.  Briefly:

  1. “The research and development monies now going into solar energy are great enough to fuel innovation and bring down prices rapidly.”

 

  1. “Honda is experimenting with a zero-carbon home.”

 

  1. Thin-skin solar panels will be installed directly on the cars, and a canopy recharger will fill them back up.”

 

  1. “Even poor countries of the global South like Pakistan are finding it affordable now to create enormous solar parks.”

 

  1. “After seeing the way Russia is bullying Western Europe over opposition in Brussels to Russia grabbing Ukrainian territory, with Russia threatening to cut off natural gas, many countries will be encouraged to invest in renewable energy sources that cannot be cut off.”

Wow!  Now I will be able to sleep “like a baby” tonight, with no fear whatsoever of the future!  (Again, just kidding!)

I’m not sure what literature Cole has been reading lately, but it is clear that he hasn’t read this statement by Guy McPherson, who states in the Introduction to his Going Dark (2013):

Shortly after the arrival of the 21st century I realized we were putting the finishing touches on our own extinction party, with the shindig probably over within a few decades.

Whose views regarding the human future are more believable, those of Cole—a Professor of History whose specialties are the Middle East and South Asia—or McPherson—a Professor Emeritus of Natural Resources and Ecology & Evolutionary Biology at the University of Arizona?

The answer to this question is too obvious to state!

What Prof. Cole doesn’t seem to realize is that unless alternate technologies, such as solar, were to replace fossil fuels as an energy source within just a few years, and geo-engineering measures (e.g.,, carbon extraction) were to be implemented—and successfully!—on a massive scale, again within a few years, “runaway” climate change will occur, resulting in a severe culling of the human population—perhaps to the point of extinction.

This leads us to the key question:  What is the likelihood of these “events” occurring?  Unless I am drastically misreading our current political situation, with Pres. O’Bomber (sp.?!), at the helm, I would say that the likelihood is 0—i.e., ZERO!

Prof. Cole, why, then, are you trying to build our optimism, when you should be trying to help us think more realistically?!

_______

If you have registered, or you intend to register, please send an email message to guy.r.mcpherson@gmail.com. McPherson will approve your registration as quickly as possible. Thanks for your patience.

_______

McPherson was interview 29 April 2014 by Coral Reef and Free at Santa Cruz Freak Radio. It’s here.

_______

Friday, 2 May 2014, 2:30 p.m., Forum Room, Cuesta College main campus, San Luis Obispo, California, “Abrupt climate change”

16 May 2014, 7:00 p.m., Terra Nova de Corazón, Ecuador, “Responding to abrupt climate change” (details on poster below, click here for additional information, and follow the event on Facebook here)

17-18 May 2014, all day, Terra Nova de Corazón, Ecuador, grief-recovery workshop (details on poster below, click here for additional information, and follow the event on Facebook here)

Ecuador

4 June 2014, Wyoming, debate with H. Leighton Steward, who often represents the fossil-fuel industry. Read about Steward here.

______________

Going Dark is available from the publisher here, from Amazon here, from Amazon on Kindle here, from Barnes & Noble on Nook here, and as a Google e-book here. Going Dark was reviewed by Carolyn Baker at Speaking Truth to Power and by more than two dozen readers at Amazon.

Comments 124

  • This line was interesting:
    “unless alternate technologies, such as solar, were to replace fossil fuels as an energy source within just a few years, and geo-engineering measures (e.g.,, carbon extraction) were to be implemented—and successfully!—on a massive scale, again within a few years, “runaway” climate change will occur,”

    Runaway climate change *is occurring now*! And that’s according to the VERY conservative and timid IPCC’s most recent report.

    On whole I agree with the author, Alton C. Thompson, that those 5 reasons are NOT very good examples of what might even nudge us in the right direction…
    One might call them techno fantasies, or sheer delusion.

    Are we not yet tired of letting delusional idiots have the microphone? Delusional, idiotic AND self aggrandizing? “Informed comment” my ass.

    I certainly am sick of this horse shit.

    I’m especially tired of the delusional idea that everyone somehow NEEDS electricity.
    That somehow we cannot do without instant access to immediate light.
    Like this delusional artist, planning on making billions of plastic, solar powered, sunflower shaped, reading, night lights for poor African children…
    As if that is going to feed them, clothe them and end the wars that we started to steal their fossil fuels and rare earth minerals….
    http://article.wn.com/view/2014/03/25/Artist_Olafur_Eliasson_brings_Little_Sun_to_MIT_MIT_Massachu/

    When will the stupid ever end???

  • Juan Cole blocked me on twitter for suggesting that if he’s so concerned about climate change he should organize with like minded University faculty in the Department of History at the University of Michigan (where I was a grad student for six years, and where he was the absentee adviser for the Grad Student Instructor Training I co-ran in year 3 and so knew me personally). His definition of “public intellectual” is “pontiff”. Plus the fact that, as observed above, his ideas on ecological issues are uninspired liberal regurgitation.

  • Like other climate rationalists, Prof. Cole does not understand or refuses to consider exponential growth.

    EVEN the Club of Rome original report back in 1972 showed that with a pure form of non-polluting energy, exponential growth of waste energy heat would overwhelm the planet.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Limits_to_Growth

  • There goes my moments of hope that my nephew learned something about “Imperial Overstretch” from his UM professor, hearing Cole parrot the imperial party line over US’s Neocon attempt to encircle and grab Russia’s resources. Oh well.

    No, those who are still thinking “solar”, and “carbon”, are still thinking linearly. Once the accelerating curve of Methane hits you square between the eyes, you are gone from that world.

    For perspective, I’ve just loaded about half of these Hubble telescope photos onto my phone to look at when the “news” gets to be just too much to take (although I’m still such a glutton for punishment):

    http://news.msn.com/science-technology/stellar-photos-from-the-hubble?jid=36&rid=1&FORM=MD00PL&OCID=MD00PL

  • It is not Climate Change…It is Climate Changed!

    Use the Earth Wind URL below to see. This is a visualization of near real-time NASA wind data (updated very three hours). The view has be pre-set to show the jet stream (250hPa) over America. Notice the long sweeping red-colored loops of the jet stream from the Arctic down to our southern boarder.

    Next, grab the Earth and rotate it to the Antarctic and notice the more concentrated white colored jet stream. Now grab the Earth again and rotate it to the Arctic (north pole).

    The slower (red) meandering northern jet stream is being pulled by the Earth’s rotation, more south giving us the record cold spring temperatures.

    Here is how it works: because of more dramatic southern hemisphere ocean temperature gradient between equator and Antarctic compared to the weaker temperature gradient between equator and Arctic in the northern hemisphere, the angular momentum force from the Eartg’s rotation stretches the slower northern jet stream south giving us the record cold spring temperatures and allowing warm temperatures to the north.

    Earth Wind Map
    http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/250hPa/orthographic=-95.46,30.23,481


    Explanation of Northern Hemisphere Jet Stream Dynamics


    Explanation of Southern Hemisphere Jet Stream Dynamics


    Jennifer Francis – Understanding the Jet Stream: Climate Change and Extreme Weather

  • The world is run by people who are scientifically and financially illiterate. Many of them are voted into positions of power by people who are predominantly scientifically and financially illiterate. Those who are not voted into power achieve ‘success’ by looting and polluting the planet, or by exploiting other people.

    Current arrangements, which are held in place by delusions, misinformation and outright lies, are in the process of collapsing. Anyone who point out the obvious is declared to be ‘too gloomy’.

    This whole shocking mess can only end very badly for everyone, and very badly for most vertebrate species on this planet.

  • Does anyone know what has happened to CO2Now?

    The site has been inaccessible for a couple of days. Has it been shut down, a victim of budget cuts?

  • Juan Cole is the peronification of a literary intellectual & comfortable establishment historian.
    He teaches a variant of junior high school civics at the U. of Michigan.

    Historian Cole completely exposed himself recently, when he came forward with his “establishment version” of the destruction of Libya.

    Taking his history & political clues from Frank Gaffney’s Zionist playbook, Cole blamed the destruction of Libya on the sinister & nebulous Islamofascists.

    Long suffering Cole probably wouldn’t know the rudiments of the second law of thermo, & his scientific deficits are a big part of his penchant for phantasmagorical techno fixes.

  • It’s one thing to offer up Mr. Cole as an example of a well-meaning blogger with a strong intellectual following, who nontheless is clueless about the enormity of humanities climate predicament. But don’t crack on him personally. If you want to let new readers investigate the issues with rose-colored glasses removed don’t seem petty.

    After all, any who stares extinction in the eye already knows his optimism is an enforced instinct, and that he’s in good company with the IPCC authors. And anyone who’s reading your site seeking out this info still shares his denial. Try not to alienate those readers during their information gathering phase. After all, how objective do you appear if you resort to mean-spirited ad hominem attacks?

    Also, I encourage anyone to run through EVERY “what if” scenario that may offer up a solution. Do they have anything better to do while coming to terms with this? If there is a solution, then I’d love to hear it, even if it’s just one pearl in a sea of mud. I’d be happy to be “wrong” to find out that ecocide can be avoided if we just eat more “Beano” and recycle more or something.

    The only solution that I’ve come up to lower fossil fuel consumption, bring population growth in check, lower temperaturss and break governmental log jam is a “limited” nuclear war. As long as it’s far away from me and only takes out a few hundred million souls, I could keep driving my Prius to the supermarket? Gee Wiz. I hope “we” keep looking for a less guilt-ridden solution. Try not to knock those still going through the stages please.

  • Alton C. Thompson says: “… why, then, are you trying to build our optimism, when you should be trying to help us think more realistically?!”

    It’s Over

    Concluding our species is through
    Means “solutions” don’t screw up your view:
    You accept what fate brings,
    And do some of the things
    You’ve always wanted to do.

  • Alton C. Thompson says: “… why, then, are you trying to build our optimism, when you should be trying to help us think more realistically?!”

    It’s Over

    Concluding our species is through
    Means “solutions” don’t screw up your view:
    You accept what fate brings,
    And do some of the things
    You’ve always wanted to do.

  • (suggested) Activities to practice (lessens the shock later)

    Try to eat as little as possible. [I like the one meal a day plan]

    Use as little water as possible.

    Take the coolest temperature shower you can stand.

    Live without using electricity whenever you can and for as long as you can.

    Use as little fossil fuel as possible.

    Feel free to add to this list any good ideas that are helpful in working toward where we’ll likely end up when the collapse is here for good, so they may involve sacrifice, endurance, living stress free (to avoid self-inflicted handicap/disease) and efficiency, community, etc. kinds of “tasks” or “good habits to get into.”

    It’s pretty hard to practice being homeless, but we’ll at least be lessening our “footprint” – though, of course it isn’t going to matter so if you just want to ignore it, that’s fine. This is an open-ended and completely voluntary activity and anyone can adapt to any, all, or none of them. i’m nowhere near a zero footprint and can’t afford to invest in solar tech, but I try to abide by this list, to the extent I can.

    So no more capcha hunh? The last post I put up (this morning around 6 a.m.) didn’t get posted until this afternoon. I’m not making a big deal out of it, just sayin’.

    http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2014/04/29/seattle-high-schoolers-are-risking-arrest-in-a-downtown-sit-in-against-the-keystone-xl-oil-pipeline

    Seattle High Schoolers Are Risking Arrest In A Downtown Sit-In Against the Keystone XL Oil Pipeline

    Posted by Ansel Herz on Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 5:54 PM

    So pay some goddamn attention, President Obama! Erasmus Baxter, a senior at Garfield High School, tells me by phone that police at the Federal Building in downtown Seattle are currently “just standing off to the side and watching,” rather that moving in to make arrests—even though the students plan to block the entrance for an hour.

    “The effects of climate change aren’t just abstract. It’s something that’s going to affect us and our children. And we need to make a concrete step,” Baxter says. About few dozen of them marched from Cal Anderson Park down to the building. (Washington Governor Jay Inslee today announced a bunch of non-concrete steps, by the way, to combat climate change.)

    Why aren’t they taking selfies or loitering at a park on a sunny day like today, like normal young people? Baxter explains that over 95,000 people have signed up online for the “Pledge of Resistance” to carry out acts of civil disobedience against the proposed Keystone XL pipeline, which would carry oil dredged up from Canadian tar sands to refineries in the southern United States.

    But the pledge’s age cutoff is 18. Two students from Nathan Hale High School decided to act anyway, and they recruited Baxter to handle media relations because he writes for his school’s newspaper.

    “We’re trying to kill that myth of the apathetic young person,” he says. “We’re very opposed to the pipeline and if more actions are necessary, that’s what we’re going to do…you [President Obama] may have delayed it, but we’re not forgetting about it,” Baxter says. And neither are you, dear Slog reader—right?

  • Tom.

    Walk and cycle as much a possible; yes.

    Change diet: yes.

    Stop buying stuff; yes.

    Cold showers, no. Hot baths are one of the few luxuries I indulge in, and I will enjoy them while I can. 🙂

    By the way, since CoIC has seized up, there is much discussion regarding Mike Lee’s cognitive dissonance: celebrating Mike Ruppert’s life and work and at the same time denigrating anyone who won’t accept the official narrative of 9/11. Truly amazing, to say the least!

  • @ Tom:

    Actually, better to do the opposite – consume as much as you can – borrow as much as you can, and be happy.

    The Voluntary Extinction Movement
    Thou shalt not procreate.

    The Church of Euthanasia
    Save the planet, kill yourself.

  • Sadly, the climate change denier crowd are beefed up by the technotopians, those who think that a solution to one problem (whether it is fossil fuel depletion or GHG emissions) has been demonstrated somewhere by someone, on a small scale (or even just in the lab) and have this concluded that the “solution” will be rolled out just in time to save our sorry asses. They completely ignore human nature.

  • Yogi Berra: “The best way to see something is to look”.

    Look, examine: to look at (something) closely and carefully in order to learn more about it, to find problems, etc.

    Talk is cheap. Can be just a lot of spin.

    Spin: “to evolve, express, or fabricate by processes of mind or imagination.”

  • Does anyone know what has happened to CO2Now?

    Will this do?
    The Keeling Curve
    A DAILY RECORD OF ATMOSPHERIC CARBON DIOXIDE FROM SCRIPPS INSTITUTION OF OCEANOGRAPHY AT UC SAN DIEGO

    After all, any who stares extinction in the eye already knows his optimism is an enforced instinct,

    Even on a personal level, staring one’s finitude “in the eye” is a form of “ashuba meditation”, the name given by the Theravada teacher to Dr. McPherson’s experience at assimilating NTE.

    That word, though familiar to me and although perfectly suited as a general descriptive term, is not used in common references to specific forms of such meditations.

    Most – perhaps almost all – look away when first confronted with one’s finitude, and whenever possible on all subsequent occasions.

    My encounters with ashuba meditation were also unknowing. Observing autopsies in Forensic Pathology was one such circumstance. As an Army Flight Surgeon, a knowledge of the mechanics of crash forces in aircraft accidents plus firsthand acquaintance with the mischief done by those forces to human bodies certainly helped. But its power was most manifest when up close and personal.

  • Tom has some (suggested) Activities to practice (lessens the shock later)

    But this is changing light bulbs. If you really want to practice, quit your job, sell off everything and give your money away. Or is that Buddha?

    I figure when the Shock comes, it will be more shocking than anything we can be prepare or practice for. Having never been in a starvation riot, failed state, global panic, nuclear meltdown not sure on the exact protocol of how to behave. Humanely is the hope.

    Perhaps better practice ideas would be

    Talk to your neighbors.

    Smile more often.

    Enjoy deeply what you have now because it’s not going to last.

  • kevin: i’m with you on the warm showers (and it goes for all the other ideas too – you can continue to live comfortably as long as you can – these are just suggestions to “try on” to begin to feel the way it’ll be when the lights are out for good. One can try eating one meal a day for a few days to see how it feels, for example).

    pat: yeah, it works either way. I can’t afford to be extravagant is all. I recently read about the Spanish “Robin Hood” of the banks (who looked into the inner workings of how the banks operate, took out a number of loans of about $5000, used them to leverage it up to a really significant amount and used the money to fund anti-banking groups who want to see real change) which I found interesting but I couldn’t do it myself. Seems we’re all walking our own path, but we’ll end up in the same place.

    Here’s the FBI’s released files on the Sandy Hook (false flag op):

    http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-sandy-hook-fbi-files-20140424,0,3591921.story

    FBI Releases Heavily Blacked Out Sandy Hook Records

    The FBI has released about 175 pages of heavily blacked-out documents from the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre investigation.

    Of the 175 pages released in response to a Courant Freedom of Information request, 64 were completely redacted and most of the other 111 pages were heavily redacted. The Courant submitted the request in January after state police released a report on the Dec. 14, 2012, shooting that left 20 first-graders and six women dead at the Newtown school.

    The names of all witnesses interviewed by federal agents have been removed and there are no references to attempts by federal authorities in Washington, D.C., to recover information from a computer disk that shooter Adam Lanza destroyed.

    Although the state police Western District Major Crime Squad was the lead group investigating the massacre, federal agents from the New Haven office were heavily involved.

    [read the article if interested, but they aren’t telling us anything and this only raises more questions imho]

    http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/05/02/report-more-than-92-million-americans-remain-out-of-labor-force/

    Report: More Than 92 Million Americans Remain Out Of Labor Force

    Despite the unemployment rate plummeting, more than 92 million Americans remain out of the labor force.

    The unemployment rate dropped to 6.3 percent in April from 6.7 percent in March, the lowest it has been since September 2008 when it was 6.1 percent. The sharp drop, though, occurred because the number of people working or seeking work fell. The Bureau of Labor Statistics does not count people not looking for a job as unemployed.

    [so it’s more bullshit from the gummint]

    You want the truth? [hat tip Colorado Bob]

    http://www.wunderground.com/news/april-first-month-co2-levels-above-400-ppm-20140430

    CO2 Levels Stay Above 400 PPM Throughout April, First Time Ever in Human History

    The end of April has arrived, and with it, the record for the first month in human history with an average carbon dioxide level in Earth’s atmosphere above 400 parts per million has been set.

    With a little more than 24 hours left in the month, the average for April can’t slip below 400 ppm. “Every day in April has been over 400 ppm,” said Pieter Tans, a climate scientist with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

    The levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere are monitored from a site atop Hawaii’s Mauna Loa volcano, where they have been measured continuously since 1958. The long record has charted the steep rise of the greenhouse gas — the most prevalent in Earth’s atmosphere — as a result of human emissions.

    The first measurement in excess of 400 ppm was made on May 9, 2013. This year, the level rose above that mark a full two months earlier, and has remained above 400 ppm steadily since the beginning of April. While the milestone is largely a symbolic one, it does illustrate how far emissions have risen from their preindustrial levels of 280 ppm.

    [read the rest]

  • Grant: that’s exactly what to do and where we’re going, but, like jumping in the deep end of the pool, most would rather advance a toe to gauge temperature before the plunge. Great observation and suggestions.

  • Build and use a composting toilet. Barebones: drywall bucket and sawdust. Hi-tech: drywall bucket and compost, nestled inside fancy, schmancy wood (recycled) frame, complete with lid.

  • Tim, I am very opposed to letting Juan Cole off so lightly.

    His childish “solutions” are both irresponsible & downright dangerous.

    Since he writes under the imprimatur of a professor at a major university, he is surely implying that he is “intelligent.”

    Would we countenance his writing if he told us that our guardian angels were on the way with help?

    A glaring but simple fact stands foremost for all who admit the truth about who killed the planet.

    It was the fossil fuel consumers in the wealthy countries who polluted the atmospheric commons, & that means you & me.

    We are still polluting.

    Paul Ehrlich & the chorus of over population “writers’ blamed it all on the poor of the third world.

    Ehrlich has not recanted.

    Like his population bomb predecessors, Cole is making a mockery of science.

    Does the average academic historian even know the rudiments of science may be our question?

    Logic can be described as the art of going wrong with confidence.

  • Dedicated English environmentalist Paul Kingsnorth in a recent NYT op-ed said;

    Movements like Bill McKibben’s 350.org, for instance, might engage people, but they have no chance of stopping climate change.

    “I just wish there was a way to be more honest about that,” he went on, “because actually what McKibben’s doing, and what all these movements are doing, is selling people a false premise.

    They’re saying, ‘If we take these actions, we will be able to achieve this goal.’ And if you can’t, and you know that, then you’re lying to people. And those people . . . they’re going to feel despair.”

  • Let us not be so hard on Professor Cole. Let us demand some numbers. He’ll do that, right?

  • WHERE WE ARE:
    ► 90% of Big Ocean Fish gone since 1950.
    ► 50% of Great Barrier Reef gone since 1985.
    ► 50% of Fresh Water Fish gone since 1987.
    ► 30% of Marine Birds gone since 1995.
    ► 28% of Land Animals gone since 1970.
    ► 28% of All Marine Animals gone since 1970.
    ► 50% of All Vertebrate Species gone by 2040.
    ► 90 elephants shot every day for their ivory.
    ► 2-3 rhinos shot every day for their horns.
    ► 90% of Lions gone since 1993.
    ► Extinctions are 1000 times faster than normal.
    ► Ocean acidification doubles by 2050.
    ► Ocean acidification triples by 2100.

    WHERE WE ARE GOING
    ► 3 years until China bubble pops.*
    ► 4 years until conventional oil can’t keep up.
    ► 10 years until wars for food and water.
    ► 13 years to catastrophic, unstoppable, irreversible climate heating.
    ► 30 years to catastrophic cascading mass extinction collapse.

    WHAT WE ARE DOING
    We want to run the world on solar and wind power in the face of oncoming extreme weather and climate. Solar and wind require expensive, unreliable toxic batteries and back-up fossil fuel plants.
    You need 10 times the power of green energy to displace 1 unit of fossil fuels. Ecologically, this is impossible to do.
    http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/v2/n6/full/nclimate1451.html?WT.ec_id=NCLIMATE-201206

    Solar, wind and rechargeable batteries all require 3 deadly things.
    1) heavy metals.
    2) conflict minerals.
    3) rare earth elements.

    We think conservation and efficiency will help when all they do is drive more economic growth. We live in a dream, soon to be nightmare.
    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tim+garrett+is+it+possible+to+decouple+economic+wealth+from+carbon+dioxide+emission+rates%3F+part+i

    *
    China’s banks grew 15 Trillion U.S. dollars in 5 years.
    It took U.S. commercial banks 100 years to grow to 15 Trillion bucks,
    It took U.S. GDP 100 years to grow to 15 Trillion bucks.

  • THANK YOU ROBERT CALLAGHAN!

    There’s so much more to this mess than “just” climate change. Though “climate change” and “global warming” are the most popular (read “hip”) issues and most definitely sufficient evil, there’s so much more destruction – past, present, ongoing – as Robert’s comment illustrates.

    Oh, and, how ’bout 98% of Earth’s old growth forests gone. There’s another beaut.
    And mega-mining. And fuckin’ fracking.

    The fiscal factoids? Pfft! Who cares? Not me. Except for what they represent in Earth ravaging.

    And of course, the techno-fixes are delusions, pie in the sky.
    There was a comment here a little while back – with those same ‘arrows’ as above – outlining “The Dark Side of Renewables”, the long version of:

    “Solar, wind and rechargeable batteries all require 3 deadly things.
    1) heavy metals.
    2) conflict minerals.
    3) rare earth elements.”

    Was that you too, Robert? If so, thank you.
    Funny, though, that even without that detailed info, it seems so obvious that all the machinery and manufacturing necessary to produce any of these techno-fixes has to be just MORE DESTRUCTION.

    I DO despair,
    Jude

  • @Robert Callaghan

    “Solar, wind and rechargeable batteries all require 3 deadly things.
    1) heavy metals.
    2) conflict minerals.
    3) rare earth elements.”

    So does your computer, cell phone and many other products you consume.

    P.S. Will you lay off on your bullet list. We got it the first 12 times.

  • And NUKES……

    And OVERPOPULATION………….

    It all adds up rather unbelievably to ONE MURDERED PLANET.

  • @kevin moore
    How do you know xraymike’s name is Mike Lee?

  • @Apneaman

    Oh, go have A NAP!

  • I guess most of NBL posters are from a developed country.
    So when the issue is making an effort to change things (using less energy and producing less CO2), it is often forgotten that developing and poor countries have very little to do about that, or that they have done their part already, if it is seen in a different way.

    Many people in these countries are buying their first car at 50, this year. Many more do not have one, and possibly the next generation will be the fists to have access to the first car in the family.
    In USA, 14.5 million light vehicles were sold in 2012, in Chile, the same year, 250 000 cars were sold. That is one new car for every 24 persons in USA, compared to one car for every 62 persons in Chile. To that data, it has to be added the fact that cars sold in Chile are mostly small cars, 1.3 to 1.6 liters, and pick-up trucks are mostly Ford Ranger´s size, most of them diesel powered. Also has to be said that Chile is the country with the highest income in South America.
    In China more new cars are currently sold per year than in USA, but if we look at the total power of all new cars sold in each country, probably (do not have the figures at hand), the figure for the cars sold in USA will be much higher (easily doubling). That means same number of cars, but maybe half CO2 by cars in China.
    Flight by plane is a luxury to most people only looking at developing countries (poor countries nothing to say). Most people have never gone farther than 600 kmts from home for holiday, and transportation means are mainly bus, train or car. I live in the second biggest city of my country, and we see only four planes by day. Chemtrails?, what is that?.
    Wood has provided most of the energy for heating homes, and cooking, and currently, it is still the most used fuel for these purposes.
    Automatic doors are very recent in my country, less than 10 years, a technology, and energy consumption available in USA by 1975. Besides, they are not common here.
    Automatic escalators and malls, are recent (15 years for the first ones, less than 10 years for most).
    Amusement parks like Coney Island are rare (in Chile there is only one, and smaller).
    In general terms, the contribution to current CO2 levels by developing countries is much smaller than the share of the developed world.

    We are talking of a totally different world. That, as an average, is some 40 or 50 (or more) years behind the developed world, when we consider only 50% of population having access to benefits of the same level in general. In simple words, a lot less CO2 per capita today, and much-much less 40 years ago.

    OK, climate change is a problem that will affect all of us, but do we have to stop doing what people in the developed world have been doing, practicing, and enjoying, for decades?
    Sounds unfair.
    I´ll keep saying that we have done our part of sacrifice already, just by living a less comfortable life, without access to many gadgets of all kinds, that were already available in developed countries 50 years ago.
    It is understood that developing world will do what is necessary, when the time comes, we are all in the same boat, but if we want to start doing things in advance, to change the course of things, developed world should go first and take the lead with concrete actions (that I am not seeing so far).

  • Summer 2014

    Make popcorn and check out the scene:
    Too much heat and diminished cuisine;
    As the truth becomes known,
    Many minds will be blown
    In the summer of twenty fourteen.

  • Gerald Spezio,
    It is not correct that Paul Ehrlich is only concerned about overpopulation in poor countries.He is completely aware of the much greater per capita impact of high consumption societies.Most readers here would know that he and John Holdren are the originators of the’I=PAT’ equation,meaning Environmental Impact= Population X Affluence X Technology.As an aside, a couple of years ago George Monbiot,whose blog I read,and like and generally agree with,wrote a column stating that the ‘A’ in the equation should be replaced by ‘C’,standing for consumption,as consumption was the relevant factor.As if Ehrlich and Holdren wouldn’t have known that.As there is a direct relationship between Affluence and consumption,either is accurate.I am sure that they would have chosen A rather than C due to the fact that acronyms containing words are more easily remembered than those that don’t.The last three essays by Paul Ehrlich at the Millennium alliance for Humanity and the biosphere(mahb) blog are worth reading.The second lastl blog has several comments by ignorant trolls,ridiculing Ehrlich for being incorrect in ‘The Population Bomb’.Of course after that book was published,the green revolution occurred, which entailed the selection of food crop genotypes which had the ability to provide high yields ,but were reliant on high energy inputs and high nutrient availability.The high energy inputs were in the form of industrial fixed nitrogen(a very energy intensive process),mechanisation ,and chemical crop Protestants.Norman Borlaug,who was a key person involved in the breeding of those crops,knew that Ehrlich was correct,and in his Nobel Prize acceptance speech explicitly warned that humanity could not rely on scientific advances to absolve us from the responsibility to limit our population.’The Population Bomb’ was incorrect in the time frame,but the correct in it’s main thesis,,that it is not possible to have the human population increasing forever,and that if humanity does not address it by limiting birth rates,nature will take care of it for us,by increasing death rates.Even without the enormity of the climate disruption problems,the truth of that thesis would be upon us this century,almost certainly before mid century.

  • Should be’protectants’.

  • For those labouring under delusions to the contrary, the uSA is past the point of being a developed country and now embarked on the process of disintegrative, regressive, destructive de-development. At the same time, it is also delusional to think in terms of “developing” nations as the approaching terminus of fossil-fuel profligacy progressively constrains energy flows, while climate denouement simultaneously looms ever larger. A more honest term would be the “never-to-be-developed” nations.

    The American Empire Crumbling Before Our Eyes Right Here at Home

  • For those labouring under delusions to the contrary, the uSA is past the point of being a developed country and now embarked on the process of disintegrative, regressive, destructive de-development. At the same time, it is also delusional to think in terms of “developing” nations as the approaching terminus of fossil-fuel profligacy progressively constrains energy flows, while climate denouement simultaneously looms ever larger. A more honest term would be the “never-to-be-developed” nations.

    The American Empire Crumbling Before Our Eyes Right Here at Home

  • The last posting at the Collapse of industrial Civilisation site was largely hijacked by a fellow claiming that the colonisation of space is the way to go.As I read the essay and comments after the comments were closed,and Mike is having a break for 2 or4 weeks,and I know that a lot of people here read that site,I hope Guy won’t mind if I make a quick comment here.
    I didn’t notice any commenters there directing people to the ‘Why not space’ essay at Tom Murphy’s ‘Do the Math’ site.I would say it demolishes the ‘space rescue’ delusion,and Murphy’s credentials are impeccable. All of the essays there in the ‘Most popular posts’ section are worth reading.The’Galactic scale energy’ essay is brilliant.I am typing this on a single screen tablet,so I can’t embed a link here,as far as I know,but it should be easy for anyone to find them.

  • @david higham

    As you probably know, my first response was sarcastic (yes, build 31 billion Saturn V rockets and transport all the material needed into orbit).

    The it all got very nasty, with Mike siding with those who said anyone who challenges the official narrative of 9/11 is a nutter.

    The cognitive dissonance exposed on CoIC is truly astounding, because Mike Lee (xraymike)recently acknowledged the work of Mike Ruppert -and one of the main thrusts of Mike Ruppert’s work was that 9/11 was an inside job and that you cannot trust the government!

    Back to the space travel nonsense: we know humans could not survive for more than a few months in any kind of ‘bio-dome’ ever tried on Earth, so to suppose they will do better in the absence of gravity and bombarded by cosmic radiation takes us into the realm of 1950s comics.

    Quoting Guy: Obedience at home and oppression abroad. It seem that Americans are more obedient at home than we thought, and are prepared to believe the nonsense churned out by the US government -including people who should know better.

    The ‘troll’ actually did some good on that occasion, because many of us have been very suspicious of xraymike’s stance on 9/11 and a few other matters for quite some time.

    As I said to someone a few days ago, Mike ‘stepped on a mine and it blew his foot off’.

    It’s such a pity he went down that track because CoIC had become such a good site. Sadly, it is now redundant.

    Not that it matters anymore. We are fast approaching the point when we will all have to keep our heads down and be primarily concerned with our own survival. My guess is that we have between 3 and 18 months.

  • @Apneaman

    ‘How do you know xraymike’s name is Mike Lee?’

    Actually it isn’t; that is the shortened form of a longer name beginning with L that has a couple of ees in it. He told me many months ago via email. And we know where he lives.

    Under the present circumstances I won’t reveal the actual name: too much shit flying around.

    I continue to stick to the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so the shit that is flying round doesn’t worry me.

  • Hell hath no fury like a truther scorned.

  • @Judy Wood

    Oh fuck you

  • Since Kevin Moore has mentioned a “cognitive dissonance” with myself concerning Mike Ruppert, I feel I must clarify things and correct him.

    If you actually read the post I wrote about Mike Ruppert, then you would know that I was hardly “celebrating” Mike Ruppert’s life and work.

    http://collapseofindustrialcivilization.com/2014/04/16/8986/

    Let me quote a line:

    “In their search for the truth, perhaps some travel too far down the rabbit hole of civilizational and environmental collapse to ever escape its malignant shadow; it consumes them like a cancer.”

    Ruppert was eaten up by his own obsession of finding meaning and truth in a chaotic world. My own thoughts on 9/11 go no further than it being blowback from American foreign policy and bureaucratic incompetence. I have no desire to waste time on wild and improbable conspiracy theories which have already been easily disproved. Do governments conspire to do underhanded things? Of course they do, but not all events are a government plot or the workings of TPTB. It’s human nature to try and make sense of traumatic events and look for connections and patterns, oftentimes where none exist. Unfounded conspiracy theories have lead to wars and mass death in the past and it’s my belief that we have to use reason over prejudice and suspicion in order to avoid such tragic outcomes.

    “A society enamoured with conspiracy theory is sliding into barbarity.”
    ~ David Livingstone Smith


  • @Kevin Moore — “My guess is that we have between 3 and 18 months.”

    Good guess. If not just yet, this will be the accurate outlook very soon, and then most of our discussions will become academic as panic sets in, and more often it will be asked “Where are you?” as news breaks of various disruptions.

    Trying to guess just where one is on an ascending curve is the hard part.

  • A time to be born, a time to die..a time to GO BALLISTIC. 🙂

    This is getting moderately ticked off.

    RE

    Denial: It’s not just a River in Egypt

  • Godofredo, you raise valid points and I believe these are to be considered if there ever is going to be a serious binding agreement. I think the current thinking is generally indeed that developed countries will cut emissions first, and then the developing countries will follow later. You can read up on why these agreements have failed to materialise but I think developing countries will get a pass for a while and the longer people wait, the harder it is on both sides. The issues are how much, how long, and whether cuts that developed countries agree to are binding, and some countries being classified as developed or developing country. But I don’t think this is the real issue here (i.e., the math can be worked out based on what each country has emitted, etc.) but perhaps a general lack of urgency on the part of the majorities of people that something is off. It probably will take some serious event of global consequence before action is taken, and by this time, it may be too late to avoid going catastrophic climate change.

  • Denial is not just a river in Egypt. It’s also a river in Sudan, South Sudan, Uganda, Ethiopia, Eritrea and the DRC. How many of these are failed or failing states? All save Uganda.

  • Thank you, david higham, for the information contained in your comment at 4:04.

  • Solar and wind capturing devices are not alternative energy sources. For the physical devices – for wind, photovoltaices, solar hot water, hot air panels – the sun and wind are there, are green, are sustained. The devices that are used to capture the sun and wind’s energy are an extension of the fossil fuel supply system.

    There is a massive infrastructure of mining, processing, manufacturing, fabricating, installation, transportation and the associated environmental assaults. There would be no sun or wind capturing devices with out this infrastructure. This infrastructure is not green, sustainable, or renewable. The making of the these devices inadvertently but directly supports fracking, tar sands and deep ocean drilling because of the need for this infrastructure.

    I invite you to view these essays.
    This essay has diagrams and pictures of how we get copper, aluminum, glass, black chrome – the chemicals, heavy machinery, and industrial processes that are necessary to make the devices to capture the energy of the sun and wind.
    http://sunweber.blogspot.com/2011/12/machines-making-machines-making.html
    and
    http://sunweber.blogspot.com/2014/03/reality-again.html

    And even if you could get around the environmental degradation, the low ERoEI and could amass enough extra energy to reproduce the capturing devices and their equipment, then how about the rest of the STUFF of high tech, high energy society?

    http://sunweber.blogspot.com/2011/10/to-make-light-bulb.html
    and
    http://sunweber.blogspot.com/2013/10/a-small-fan.html

  • @Kevin Moore

    Regarding 9/11, there is no longer any need to “prove” anything to anyone. Anyone that still needs convincing is a lost ball in high weeds and beyond hope. There are even more sinister things happening now that will make that date pale to insignificance. At this point I can’t see any solutions to our problems unless the entire planet is quickly taken over by empire, tribalism is eliminated and all military spending is suspended. Funds would have to be redirected towards the reorganization of societies, autos eliminated, consumption severely taxed. How likely is that, especially when the money changers and their military henchmen are in charge? Going green and buying a Prius aren’t going to cut it. In one of his last comments XrayMike mentioned the dissolving of Pteropod shells and this is orders of magnitude more important to the ecosystem than the losses associated with 9/11. And the cancer just rebuilt in the vacated space with more concrete and steel cells to be occupied by the world’s most successful plunderers. Our not-so-bright leaders with the help of legions of minions are going to bring down the house in a manner similar to 9/11, but this time it will be the entire ecosystem and we’ll all be in free fall.

  • @David Higham

    From Physicist Ben Crowell: Why Space Opera Won’t Fly

  • James, here’s me after about a week of free fall!

    https://www.facebook.com/newlife919/photos/a.188338747877362.45940.136304943080743/744722052239026/?type=1

    You’re right about 9/11. Though I too was really fired up about 9/11 Truth and the whole story, it has faded to relative insignificance in the last two years. Yet, my mind is still boggled with the fact that most people are still wantonly blind to the facts. Also, I’m thoroughly ticked at the liberal/progressive media who could have used the facts about 9/11 to rally the people to create real change and maybe even crush the corrupt 1%. It was our last chance! But, even Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky came to calling Truthers, “kooks”. Just one of the many milestones on my pathway to a complete loss of hope.

    On the previous thread OzMan and Apneaman were discussing how we’re all ‘One’. I totally agree, not only on the biological level but on the level of the Soul. I was listening to a talk recently by a quantum physicist, Fred Alan Wolf. He discussed how societies as a whole and most individuals are unable to achieve soundness of mind because the energetic connection we share has been poisoned. Poisoned by our acts of selfishness like violence and exploitation to mention a few. Burning babies alive in their cribs has had a real effect on all people no matter how insulated they think they are!

    Regarding a migration to other worlds? Humans have proven their unworthiness to exist. Cannibals should be snuffed out. Anyone who thinks it would be a good thing for Humans to survive and populate the galaxy already lives on planet Shit-for-brains!

    I’m with pat, totally! Except I’d put it like this:

    The Voluntary Extinction Movement
    Thou shalt not procreate.

    The Church of Euthanasia
    Save the GALAXY, kill yourself.

  • @Godofredo & Ram — I no longer see “countries” so much as “classes”. In the US-centric view, these are “poor” countries (meaning, somehow, not quite as WHITE as us — though no longer true in a few cases) but when I visit, I see highways clogged with shiny new cars of the rich and rising middle class.

    For example, we’d have to ask Godofredo whether Chile considers itself a “poor” country. I don’t think so.

    These people, whether they were born into privilege, or rose from lesser levels, are just not about to give up their new status.

    Young men, buying cars on credit, so they can take girls out on dates. Sound familiar? USA, 1957. (And they ARE younger than we — try to persuade them to give up their biological drives? Good luck.)

  • Henry, I agree and think it’s better to view the world through dynamic classes that evolve over time (and society is dominated by them) than putting them into rigid boxes. To carry your idea a bit forward, I’d say it’s not skin colour as you note or even being from the West/East/North/South but rather whether you’re rich or poor or where you fall in between. Money has always talked but at least in the USA I notice it more now than ever.

    –Ram

  • Here is a brief passage from the final chapter of THE POPULATION BOMB.
    Elitist Ehrlich knew what to do, so he cavalierly stated an EXTREME SOLUTION to overpopulation: “compulsory birth regulation … (through) the addition of temporary sterilants to water supplies or staple food. Doses of the antidote would be carefully rationed by the government to produce the desired family size.”

    I would never advocate a lobotomy for the well meaning Doctor Ehrlich, even today.

    I do not know how to stop pretentious & pompous professors from making fools of themselves – except by exposing their own published errors.

    Ehrlich has NOT yet apologized for his monumentally cruel mistake.

    The Arctic methane time bomb was NOT caused by the poor of the third world. It was caused by a small percentage of the world’s population consuming enormous amounts of fossil fuels.

    My carbon debt is more than 3000 tons of CO2.

  • Neo nazis backed by the US State Dept and the CIA burn more than 40 non violent protesters to death in Odessa, Ukraine.

    http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/ukraine-sitrep-update-may-3nd-1445.html

  • Gerald-

    Too bad Dr. Ehrlich’s policy recommendation for mitigating the world population explosion was not implemented. Extreme problems demand extreme solutions.

    Regardless, the Ehrlich’s did not “blame the poor of the world” as you earlier stated. Will you apologize for your mistake?

  • @ xraymike

    Ruppert was eaten up by his own obsession of finding meaning and truth in a chaotic world. My own thoughts on 9/11 go no further than it being blowback from American foreign policy and bureaucratic incompetence. I have no desire to waste time on wild and improbable conspiracy theories which have already been easily disproved. Do governments conspire to do underhanded things? Of course they do, but not all events are a government plot or the workings of TPTB. It’s human nature to try and make sense of traumatic events and look for connections and patterns, oftentimes where none exist. Unfounded conspiracy theories have lead to wars and mass death in the past and it’s my belief that we have to use reason over prejudice and suspicion in order to avoid such tragic outcomes.

    So you will not accept trolling and discussion of CTs on YOUR blog but you drag that crap over here ?

    It is, you will note, one of the few places where free speech still prevails, unlike CoIC.

    I take it that you accept the official version of 9/11 ? And yet your blog is about the truth behind the American Hologram ?

    I assumed, when I wrote for you, that the ‘ban’ on discussion of CTs was because it lead to endless off topic diversion, I did not realise that it actually sprang from your own personal naivity and gullibility.

    Oh well, we live and learn. Or some of us do.

  • I would very much like to believe in the conspiracy that someone has highjacked Xraymikes user name, otherwise what a sad waste of time he has been for all involved.

  • @James.

    I am well aware that industrial civilisation is disrupting the chemistry that makes life as we know it possible; that has been a theme of much of my writing for well over a decade.

    The reason I believe it is important to recognise 9/11 for what it was (clearly an inside job facilitated or orchestrated by the US government: concrete and steel buildings do not collapse at free-fall speed within their own footprints because of short-lived, low temperature fires, especially on that one not even hit by a plane) is because the 9/11 lie continues to be told, and the US government is now engage in telling yet another pack of lies with respect to Ukraine.

    We have a pack of liars in control in NZ, of course, and the self-serving-liar-come-maniac in charge here has announced eagerness to participate in any new war the US feels inclined to start.

    Sadly there is still a fair degree of ‘worship’ of America amongst the uninformed (all the residual crap about how the US saved NZ, forgetting it was actually the Australians fighting in New Guinea who stopped the Japanese advance, another story altogether).

    The sooner the world recognises that the US government consists of a gang of thieves and liars, and that following the American example is a path to super-fast self-destruction the better.

    I don’t get me wrong, I do not hate Americans (I organised Guy to come to NZ and he and Sheila stayed with me). It is the gang of liars and thieves that have been in control of American politics for such a long time that is the problem. And the inability of Americans to recognise they are have been lied to. Getting people to understand that the official narrative of 9/11 is physically impossible is perhaps the key to getting the American people to understand that they have been lied to.

    Although I like your expression: ‘Anyone that still needs convincing is a lost ball in high weeds and beyond hope.’ the fact is a lot of people have not even thought about the matter of 9/11 and have accepted the lie without question.

    At the moment I am working on the basis that about 5% of the populace is capable of thinking things through; and we have only reached about 1% so far.

    The main reason for the present effort to wake people up is that NZ is headed down the path of morphing covert fascism into overt fascism; increasing criminalisation of protest, secret meetings to promote TPP etc. It may be a forgone conclusion that NZ will end up an militarised police state like the US because that is what the corporations and money-lenders want, but quoting Chris Hedges, I don’t fight fascists because I think I will win but because they are fascists.

  • Henry

    Chile may not be a poor country, but there is no doubt that is far from USA, Canada, Australia, and European countries.
    As a rule of thumb in our World, things are not what they seem to be.
    In most of developing and poor countries, the GDP per capita is low, in Chile is about USD 19 000 (the highest south of the border). So there is no way that a majority of population can have the same access to technology that developed countries have today, USA GDP PCP is USD 53 000 for example.
    If you go to my country, you will see a lot of cars in the highways, specially if you go to the Capital city, Santiago, that is true. But what you see is a mirage. The real truth is that a lot of people do not have a car. Numbers don´t lie. In Argentina, there are some 300 cars per 1000 people, in Mexico and Brazil around 250, China, around 100, India around 40, and in Chile, some 190. All those figures compared to 800 in USA.

    And then we have the Gini index, that is usually much higher in poorer countries. Gini index for the USA by the way is going up, another sign that the USA economy is going down.
    Minimum wages can give you another idea of the distance between first and second and third world.
    Developing and poor countries have a really minor relation with the origin of the problem. Today, even India and China together almost double USA in CO2 emissions, certainly a not minor part of that CO2, is related with the offsetting of industries from the developed world, and the production of goods to be sold in the developed world.

    My point is simple, the big changes required to face climate change, have to come from the first world.
    Changes that are against industrial economy, and for obvious reasons, guess will never take place in a voluntary scheme.

    Curiously, developing and poor countries are better prepared to face local economy, and in general, a crash of the world economy. Also they are better prepared to have a forced life using a lot less energy. And honestly I thank for that.
    Long time ago a gave up the brass ring regarding a USA lifestyle, I understood that it is a mirage, an impossible for developing countries, with a world economy based on oil. Some people in this world was lucky about that (not knowing the consequences, has to be said), but I have to accept that we cannot currently afford it, environment and future generations are first. What I think is highly questionable is that the first world keep on living very much the same way it took us where we are.

    What I can see in my country is that all the current relevant issues (climate change, peak oil, economy crash, peak everything, and Fukushima) are out of the everyday life of the average citizen (rich, mid class and poor).
    I just can wait for the worst, here and there, nobody cares. If my whole country is only 0.3% of the problem, again, there is nothing I can do to avoid the collision with iceberg.

    All I can do is keep on doing very much the same, but making some changes to better face what it comes. I will also keep on enjoying simple things of life as long as possible and reasonable.
    In the end, I feel a little bit lucky, because my country is placed where the effects of climate change will take place latest.

  • @James.

    Regarding believing official narrative of 9/11, as opposed to recognising it being a pack of lies, I like your expression: ‘Anyone that still needs convincing is a lost ball in high weeds and beyond hope.’

    And yes, the changes to the chemical composition of the atmosphere and oceans do override everything (I’ve been writing about that well over a decade).

    However, as I see it, about 5% of the populace are capable of thinking things through, and we have only reached 1% with respect to 9/11. Many people simply have not thought about it at all, and have accepted the lies churned out by US government over the past 13 years without question. Our ‘job’ I to get the other 4% to question the official narrative and see it as the pack of lies it is. Mike Lee’s efforts to shut down questioning of the official 9/11 narrative (or anything else he finds unpalatable) are not just ‘a lost ball in high weeds’ but are acts of sabotage to truth movements.

    NZ is undergoing a morphing from a covertly fascist state into an overtly fascist state, and the self-serving liar and traitor at the top has announced his eagerness to commit NZ forces to any military adventure the liars and traitors in Washington might deem expedient in the quest for natural resources or the control of markets and banking systems.

    I’ve forgotten who said it: “It is easier to lie to someone than to convince them they have been lied to.”

  • 9/11

    People lie, but let’s be succinct:
    Believing whatever is linked
    To 9/11
    Or God in his heaven
    Doesn’t change going extinct.

  • Cutting emissions

    When it is the “developed and developing” countries, it’s a maybe, but how about the East Siberian Arctic shelf and the not-so-permafrost? Will the Methane Monster go back to sleep?

    Mike Lee’s efforts to shut down questioning of the official 9/11 narrative (or anything else he finds unpalatable) are not just ‘a lost ball in high weeds’ but are acts of sabotage to truth movements.

    It’s no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense.
    – Mark Twain

    It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
    Mark Twain

  • I almost never visit NBL anymore, but every now and then someone sends me a link and I wade through the self-referential comments…and often wonder, Why are almost all the contributions from men? Could it be an utterly meaningless pissing contest?

  • @ Gail

    Permit me to direct you to where the ladies have gathered.

    https://guymcpherson.com/forum/index.php?topic=645.msg46519#new

  • @Gail…so you stop by just to piss on all of us! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! What a highbrow!

  • There’s No Time Like The Present

    The good times are now almost through,
    So avoid things that make you go, “Eww!”
    A much better plan
    Till the shit hits the fan
    Is to do what’s important to you.

  • Sorry about the near duplication in response to James. I thought #1 had vanished.

    I wasn’t going to respond to the nonsense on CoIC, but reconsidered because 9/11 is so important, indeed pivotal. I have taken the liberty of copying and pasting a response to David here because events in Ukraine are following the familiar pattern we have come to associate with the criminals in Washington……that whole phony narrative of ‘we are the good guys and we are protecting the world from global terrorism’, or in the case of Ukraine ‘protecting the world from invasion by Russia because the eastern region of Ukraine is just the first step in a plan for global domination by Russia’. Now where have we heard that before?

    ‘Unfortunately the lies promulgated by the US government with respect to 9/11 are not a side issue at all, but are central to the narrative of the times.

    Those lies have been used as a pretext to invade, wreck and loot at least two states, to abduct perfectly innocent people, torture them, and hold them indefinitely without charge, to impose unprecedented restrictions on the American people, to ‘trash’ the US Constitution and to commit numerous crimes against the American people and people of the world.

    The lies promulgated by the US government have been used as a pretext to drag armed forces of numerous other nations into illegal wars where numerous war crimes have been committed. The government of NZ is still caught up in the lies (along with Britain, Australia, Canada, NATO countries etc.)

    To say that 9/11 is a side issue that does not bear investigation is to play straight into the hands of the neofascists who are in control throughout most of the western world.

    I know that the official version of 9/11 is a pack of lies because titanium alloy aircraft engines do not ‘evaporate on impact with grass’ (as the US government would have us believe) nor does steel soften at 300C, the temperature of oxygen-starved hydrocarbon fires, Nor does heat pass along steel columns more than 100 metres long and cause explosion in foundations. I now a twin-engine airliner could not possibly generate a single 16-foot hole in the Pentagon building and leave next to no wreckage and no human bodies etc.

    Funny how the US government fount it necessary to confiscate all surveillance footage from cameras in the district near the Pentagon ‘attack’. That alone should be enough to raised suspicion.

    Aside form all that, one need only look at the collapse of Building Seven, with the classic crimping of the middle section immediately prior to the demolition to recognise that explosive charges and detonation systems had been placed in the building long before any planes flew into the Twin Towers.

    All that before we even start to examine Dick Cheney’s role in ensuring that aircraft capable of preventing completion of the scam were well out of the way, performing exercises relating to the hijacking of planes, leading to the utter confusion necessary to get the gold from out of the basement before the final demolition was done. Remember the infamous “is this exercise or real world?” or Bush, carrying on reading the ‘goat story’ to children when America was supposedly under attack Yeah right! He knew beforehand exactly what to expect.

    Let’s face it, the only people who believe the nonsense of the official narrative of 9/11 are the ones who have not examined the evidence and now refuse to examine the evidence.

    For whatever reason, Mike has chosen to be one of those who refuses to examine the evidence. That’s why I want no connection with this site (as of the end of last week).

    By the way, Arthur Schopenhauer said it long ago:

    All truth passes through three stages;

    First, it is ridiculed.

    Second, it is violently opposed.

    Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

    I have better things to do that bang my head against walls of ignorance and denial that lurk here.

    To anyone who still refuses to become informed about 9/11, I say discover the truth the hard way if you must.’

  • The truth about JFK, Moon landing, 9/11, crop circles, and global warming can be arrived at by applying science, using data. In each case, it has been done. Note, for example, that Chomsky, when discussing 9/11, always talks about human behavior, politics, motivation, psychology, etc. Never discusses the science because he doesn’t think “science”. That’s why he doesn’t get it. Notice that others, who don’t get it, go down the same road, use the same kind of thinking pattern.

  • http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analysis/35258/Germanys-Green-Energy-Revolution-May-Be-on-Verge-of-Failure/

    Germany’s Green Energy Revolution May Be on Verge of Failure

    [from the article]

    No doubt, many in the audience had a hard time digesting Gabriel’s news because they were previously subject to a kind of groupthink that stubbornly refused to take into account various economic principles.

    In fact, economic illiteracy is an inherent part of green mythology. The entire belief system is based on the idea that government force can be used for good, and that certain ends, and certain enforcers, are entitled to wield that force. This is certainly a kind of sociopathic groupthink, but it is common in government because there are no countervailing forces.

    In today’s Western, expansionist government systems, the media, colleagues, even much of the electorate is focused on legislative results. The idea is that once a law has been passed it will miraculously adjust surrounding society in predictable ways. Nothing could be further from the truth. Real economics – Austrian, free-market economics – shows us there are certain immutable economic rules. The most important rule is that for outcomes to be predictable and utile, the process itself must be subject to the rigor of competition, what Adam Smith called the Invisible Hand.

    Unfortunately, the entire modern, democratic process has been designed to circumvent the Invisible Hand of competition. Over and over, laws and regulations are created and imposed on the populace without any consideration as to whether these are viable. Green energy itself stands as a good example of the dysfunction of this sort of process.

    In Germany, wind, solar and other “environmentally friendly” forms of energy production were mandated without regard to cost factors. But it is impossible to long continue to generate energy when the process itself is not efficient.

    In other words, if the creation of energy is in the long term more expensive than the goods and services being produced, the entire effort is doomed to failure. Rather than being sustainable, the process ITSELF will be unsustainable. And that is the position in which Germany now apparently finds itself.

    According to Wikipedia and other sources, German officials and legislators created laws that “guaranteed a fixed feed-in tariff for 20 years, guaranteeing a fixed income” for producers. Yet this guarantee was probably generated without doing a proper cost-benefit analysis. Now German taxpayers are stuck paying bills they cannot afford.

    Not only that, but Germany is closing coal and nuclear powered plants at an accelerated rate. And the new energy creation must be deployed via power lines that must either be built or upgraded. The result is that German consumers are facing ever higher energy bills, so much so that a rising percentage of Germans are choosing to have their power shut off rather than pay escalating fees.

    ____________

    On CoIC: i’m disappointed that probably the best blog on the web concerned with what we’re going through is now in decline and perhaps gone for good. The site that allowed multiple posts which showed up on the site immediately after posting, separate comments that could be imbedded for particular commenters, and which covered the gamut of topics written by a variety authors was really easy to use, informative to read and had the usual push-back from readers as to veracity and viability of the ideas presented.

    It’s a sad day when the whole thing gets flushed over disagreement about past events – no matter who’s right, we lose the blog! It doesn’t matter to me whether anyone else believes the moon landing actually occurred (couldn’t someone just aim a telescope at the moon and see if the lander and flag are still there to verify?) or whether 9-11 was an inside job (as I too believe) or not, including the host of the site.

    What’s important is NOW and the continuing mess we’re finding ourselves in. CoIC allowed in-depth and often heated discussion of the important ideas. I was surprised that the contentiousness overcame the site and that it became an all or nothing affair, first with regards to ulvfugl’s quantum physics assertions and then from the exchange between xraymike and kevin moore. I expected better from us “aware” folk.

    This situation leads me to the conclusion that humanity is too mired in personal belief systems and “sides-taking” by which we can never reach wholesale consensus (let alone truth) regarding our predicament, policies for mitigating it, or co-operation of any kind once things start getting desperate.

    It was great while it lasted.

  • The violations of accepted physical principles in the “9/11” mischief is a necessary corollary to the “official” story. A concatenation of so many miracles goes beyond the realm of mere luck for the adversary: it points to Divine Intervention by Allah. The latter perforce leads to the conclusion that all false religions must abandoned forthwith for the one true religion, Islam. Of course each and every sect will hold forth on its exclusive claim to legitimacy. Caveat emptor!

  • Godofredo — yes, and it is also my hope that there will be less suffering in the countries that have not so far to fall. I am hoping that you will be able to tell your grandchildren, “Well, at least we tried, some of us did.”

    I seem to be enjoying countries beginning with the letter “C” lately, so if you are starting to take visitor requests, please place me on your list. Yesterday, I took three little girls to the circus, and it was a thrill to watch them enjoy, even though I hardly understood a word anyone said.

  • What we’re witnessing right now is breathtaking, unprecedented and absurd. When was the last time we saw such a disconnect between what our news media tells us and what actually occurred?

    In Odessa, in Ukraine, fascists from the group “Right Sector” burned a building with peaceful pro-Russian protesters inside. The proof is in the post below this one.

    Here are the hard truths of the situation:

    1. American neocons engineered a coup in Ukraine.
    2. America installed a Nazi regime. America is allied with modern-day fascists.
    3. Putin — a man I never thought I would praise — is completely innocent in this business.

    http://cannonfire.blogspot.ca/2014/05/infamy-why-is-our-media-lying.html

  • I’ve posted a guest essay penned by RE. Look for additional information at the bottom of the post. It’s all here.

  • ulvfugl — Really, all the masks are coming off. When did Obama, John Kerry (Robert Parry has written about his changing roles), and, probably next, Hilary C., become Neo-cons?

    How did this unanimity of the US media come about, totally ignoring the mirroring going on between E. Ukraine now, and W. Ukraine 3 months ago? The US has destabilized a country on Russia’s border, and Putin is taking appropriate measures to protect ethnic Russians from the Banderists’ wish for ethnic cleansing. (Can you imagine any ethnic Russian boy remaining in this new Ukrainian army now?)

    There is only one thing that can explain this unified effort by “differing” US “factions” — a “Great Game” attempt to undermine Russia, and, in these last days of energy warfare, grab its resources.

    They know, in the final counting, who employs them.

    Much easier than drilling miles down in the ocean, eh?

  • @ Henry

    Yup. Some reports more than 200 people killed in that building, people jumped from the fire then beaten to death by the fascists. Reports say they shot many first before setting fire with napalm, photo of pregnant girl shot. All the Western media say those people are ‘pro-Russian’. They are NOT. They don’t want to be governed by Nazis.

    Nuland, Brenner, Biden, McCain, Obama, CIA, etc, are responsible for ALL of this, they are the ones who set it up and are pushing it, NOBODY else wants any of this.

    Obama’s Bloodbath in Odessa

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/05/obamas-bloodbath-in-odessa/

  • Ulvfugl — the Clintons came into office with $100,000 to them, and were probably in the negative on legal bills during the Monica time. Now, they are “worth” $ 100,000,000. Hmmmm, nice work if you can get it.

    What do you think Michelle whispers to him at night?

  • Tom,
    Google’Astronomy picture of the day archive’,then go to the photo on2014 April 18,taken by Tom Murphy.Looks like evidence to me.I only found that site a few days ago,some great photos.Not able to include the link here using this tablet,AFAIK.

  • When did Obama, John Kerry (Robert Parry has written about his changing roles), and, probably next, Hilary C., become Neo-cons?

    Henry,

    If Hilary C. wasn’t a neo-con before being married to the governor of Tyson-istan, then surely about the time she had turned 1K USD into 100K USD working with a former Tyson executive in the cattle futures market…neither was investigated at the time and no charges were filed. At one point she was 100K USD in the hole and never received a margin call. Seems to me about as un-rigged as professional wrestling.

    Reminds me of the scene from “Carlito’s Way” where Al Pacino tells Sean Penn what his recent murder of a mobster and theft of his cash has turned him into:

    Carlito: You ripped him off, didn’t you?
    David Kleinfeld: What?
    Carlito: Tony T. You did take the million dollars, didn’t you?
    David Kleinfeld: [guiltily] Yeah.
    Carlito: You ain’t a lawyer no more, Dave. You a gangster now. On the other side. A whole new ball game. You can’t learn about it in school, and you can’t have a late start.

  • Re CoIC and xratmike

    The man has shown his limitations. Coming here with a drive by, leaving a pingback to get himself some hits.

    So I had a look. None of that shit had anything to do with me. I havn’t been there for a long time, and yet he insults me calling me a freak of nature.

    If his blog post had been a tour de force, he could have swung it and got everybody back on board, but he’s shown what a small, mean narrow minded little man he really is.

    And as for believing the official story re 9/11…

    Anyway, after reading the thread early this morning, I left a comment.

    I waited all day and he’s not let it through. Fucking coward. So, I print it here, where we have free speech.

    Well, this will be my final comment here, (as a heathen and proud freak of nature).

    This is the best you can do. It’s hopeless. You have not even begun to address the issues.

    As far as I’m concerned you’ve lost all your credibility, Mike.

    You quote the creep Aaronvitch in your support ? And Shermer ? And a lot of other junk.

    You simply have no idea at all what’s really going on. You’ve turned out to be another ‘useful idiot’.

    Your premise that psy ops and disinformation and CTs, can be somehow kept separated off on a different Universe so that YOU can have a nice clean tidy box to play in that only features what you can conveniently understand – climate and ocean acidification and social equity – is pathetic.

    ‘Truth behind the American Hologram’ ? That’s what I thought this site was about, not your personal blinkered prejudices.

    Well, you’ve got your pompous fatuous clowns here, mike k, Chefurka, and the rest, they’ll keep preening your ego no doubt, but for me, 9/11 is the litmus test, and you fail.

    It is extremely difficult to untangle all the stuff that’s going on, and to get a clear understanding. I spend a great deal of my time trying to understand what the truth really is.

    To discover that xray mike is so shallow and superficial in his analytical abilities and how he sees the situation is extremely disappointing.

  • @ Henry, Infanttyrone

    There’s some interesting and intelligent commentary here, imo

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/

  • Tom –

    It’s a sad day when the whole thing gets flushed over disagreement about past events – no matter who’s right, we lose the blog!

    I expected better from us “aware” folk.

    This situation leads me to the conclusion that humanity is too mired in personal belief systems and “sides-taking” by which we can never reach wholesale consensus (let alone truth) regarding our predicament, policies for mitigating it, or co-operation of any kind once things start getting desperate.

    It was great while it lasted.

    if revenge is a dish best served cold, irony is a dish best served with extra helpings.

  • Hey Tom, I’ve been thinking about your idea about trying out various forms of suffering now, before the SHTF. Being prepared to go hungry for a week or two may give a small urban group the chance to hide all their survival rations until after the armed scavengers have mostly died off. Then, they could dig up their rations and offer them as trade to become members of a relatively successful band of survivors.

    As far as 9/11 goes, been there, done that. 9/11 is just more of the same old crap humans have been doing since Caine killed Able, or some such mythological bullshit. I don’t care any more! Don’t get me wrong, if the culprits were all rounded up and shot after a fair trial, I’d be happy. But I’m not going to hold my breath, I’m going to be happy and set myself free from all the drama the people that are Evil have foisted upon us. I’m cutting the burden loose! Halalooleah! One more step up the ladder to Freedom!

    I mean, focusing on what a shit job TPTB have done developing the planet isn’t going to change anything. Harping on their evil deeds is a worthless exercise in futility. I don’t deny your right

  • HAHAHA! This has to be a first! My last post suddenly posted itself without hitting the ‘Submit Comment’ button. Oh well, if it was going to happen, it would happen to me! And I don’t care, I’M FREEEEEEE! Wheeeeeeeeeee!

    Anyway, yeah, so the Nazis are coming. What did you expect? If they show up in Florida with their jack boots and woolen uniforms, they’ll just melt! 30 more good people got burned to death? What’s new about that? I’ve shed so many fucking tears over the deaths of innocents during my life that a little delta has built up on each cheek! Humanity’s death throws are going to like those of a rabid dog. Step aside and watch it happen, there is no hope. No hope except for the hope found in this moment of sharing what’s left of good feelings and fond wishes with as many people as possible.

    Guy has ‘broke the code’ on how to handle the future. Kindness. Smile, laugh, share! We’re in it together!

    @Gail. Sorry.

  • @ Tom, Kirk, Henry, others

    Re CoIC and 9/11 and Kirk’s remark above

    It’s not about whether the people responsible for 9/11 get caught and punished, or anything like that.

    The fundamental issue is, USA is now in a pre-revolutionary stage with tremendous social tensions that cannot be resolved by the structures that exist.

    What is of vital importance is to get a clear picture, a clear analysis, so that people can UNDERSTAND what has happened, what is happening, and what is going to happen.

    That’s why xraymike’s failure is a disaster.

    He’s written down that 9/11 was terrorist blowback resulting from US foreign policy so think no more about it.

    That will not do.

    Scott Creighton who does the Willy Loman and other CT and investigative stuff wrote about Mike Ruppert. He praised much of his stuff but dismissed him because he believed in the ‘Climate Hoax’.

    There are millions of people who believe that.

    xraymike is completely clueless about what’s going on and how all this stuff works.

    See here, below, the thread that ugotstahwonder posted on the forum, and the comments she’s referring to. Nobody gives a fuck about the science and the sort of thing xraymike thinks should or should not be discussed about CTs.

    The reality of what’s happening is something completely different, the internet is a warzone. Xraymike just destroyed his OWN castle, that he has taken so long building and put so much work into building, because he does not understand. Too fucking late now.

    I don’t have any problem with him, or anyone, saying certain things are off topic for his blog, not to be discussed. I don’t really have a problem with him banning people who piss him off, although free speech is much better.

    My problem is his lack of insight and understanding. This latest post on what conspiracy theories are, slagging off Alan Moore and David Icke and so forth shows to me that he is totally naive, he has no idea how propaganda works, how the internet is being used, and what is really going on, and yet he believes his site is about ‘the truth’.

    That’s no use. He’s not up to the demands of the job he took on.

    https://guymcpherson.com/forum/index.php?topic=655.msg46684#msg46684

  • @david higham — When it comes to orbital mechanics, Tom Murphy is an incompetent buffoon. Those cite his arguments against space only demonstrate one thing: they haven’t done the math.

  • mo flo: that’s a great comment

    ulvfugl: yeah, I don’t see how he can get it back (unbelievable, isn’t it?). I’ve asked him to concentrate on the immediate problems like emerging diseases and the like. We’ll see what happens.

    Kirk: I know what you mean regarding the shed tears – I’ve been depressed since my teens because the world is so stupid and pointless.
    After the JFK hit the U.S. was ruined beyond repair, but that’s because of my (at the time) limited view (living in the 60’s was interesting and had real potential to change things before it was co-opted and everyone sold out); later I realized it was ruined at the start and that mankind itself is the problem. Enjoying the NOW.

  • ulvfugl, I fully agree. Denial is a pathological state of mind leading to utter destruction. My litmus test for the credibility of the opinionated includes the poor, war, 9/11 and climate change. These are most important, to me. I think it damages people’s minds to promote denial of facts. Denial is fundamental to what the world has become. Now, the time has arrived to pay the price for being sheeple!

  • @ulvfugl

    What are your beliefs on the 9/11 terrorist attack? I’d love to hear them since I’m clueless about the grand scheme of things.

  • @ xraymike

    Hahahaha, I’m sure you would ! Go fuck yourself. You banned me then blocked my comment after insulting me when I had not even been to your blog for fucking weeks and had nothing to do with that mess you brought on yourself. Now you expect me to educate you ? Sorry, I have better things to to with my time.

  • @ xraymike

    No, it’s not pathetic.

    As you noted, when you insulted me, I spend a lot of time online, but it’s all directed and focussed and people have claims on my attention.

    I have no obligation to you.

    Why should I get into any sort of discussion with you, or to assist you in any way ? It would take a lot of my precious time.

    You say you have to be true to your self. Well, same applies to me, and kevin, and others. You don’t understand that.

    To run your blog you have to rise up a level, it’s not about ‘you’, is it.

    But you’ve made the mistake of Bligh on the Bounty, and it can’t be undone. I was completely loyal to you and your blog, but I’m a pirate, once I’ve jumped, it’s over, I don’t come back.

    I’m much to proud to take any crap from you. I could have written a piece that would have blown everyone away and had them cheering. What you wrote was lame. You have no real deep insight, and you’re not going to suddenly get that, however much you might want it, or even if I tried my best to explain stuff to you.

    Lidia gave you some clues, and seeing as it’s in front of me, Rove The aide said that guys like me were “in what we call the reality-based community,” which he defined as people who “believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.” I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. “That’s not the way the world really works anymore.” He continued “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”

    I’m here because Dr Mcpherson is the best, imo, and despite my often appalling failings, he’s always asked me very nicely to try and tone done my rhetoric. He’s never challenged me or banned me or blocked me.
    I’m here becuase I think he’s the best. If he asked me to go, I’d go, without a complaint. If he asked me to come back, likewise. Out of respect. But that has to be earned, mike, it’s hard to get, easy to lose.

  • ulvfugl,

    New Adam Curtis article.

  • @ Martin

    Thanks

    Edward Bernays once famously promoted the “conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses” through the use of propaganda, which he considered an “important element in democratic society”.[1] Today’s so-called “liberal democracies” are testament to Bernays’ assertion. The “father of public relations” demonstrated early on that propaganda can be used for many different purposes, from selling cars to selling wars. Especially the latter has become the primary task of media in the United States and other NATO countries in recent years. With Iraq still burning, Western media played a decisive role in turning Libya and Syria into failed states as well. The propaganda was never particularly sophisticated. After “Saddam has weapons of mass destruction” came “Gaddafi is killing his own people” and eventually “Assad is like Hitler”. But mainstream media reporting got even worse during the Ukraine crisis and this could have unforeseen consequences for those in power.

    http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2014/05/02/natos-new-cold-war-runs-into-trouble-in-germany/

  • @ Xraymike

    “What are your beliefs on the 9/11 terrorist attack?”

    Do you have absolutely no understanding of physics?

    It’s not about what Ulvfugl “believes”,it’s about holding true to what the empirical evidence proves. And it’s just physically impossible for the mainstream 9/11 narrative to be true. And it’s utterly absurd that we should be having this conversation with you of all people. It’s almost as unbelievable as how two planes took down three skyscrapers.

  • @D

    All the answers for debunking your 911 conspiracies can be found at the link below if one cares to really know what happened:

    http://collapseofindustrialcivilization.com/2014/05/04/concocting-conspiracies-as-the-world-burns/comment-page-1/#comment-26579

    @ulvfugl

    Your self-conceit is quite amazing. And don’t worry about teaching me anything. That’s not what I had in mind.

  • All the answers for debunking your 911 conspiracies can be found at the link below if one cares to really know what happened:

    Mike – that”s what D was trying to say – nobody can debunk basic laws of physics.

    A 9th grader with a calculator, stopwatch, and basic understanding of physics can prove beyond doubt (and debunking) that the official story is a lie.

  • @ xraymike

    And don’t worry about teaching me anything. That’s not what I had in mind.

    I realised that some time ago, mike. You’re not smart enough to learn. That’s why I don’t waste time on you. I like very smart people who learn very quickly and impress me with their intelligence. You fail on all counts. I’m not at all conceited, mike. I’m totally humble. Bye.