When Surrender Means Not Giving Up: The New Sacred Activism

by Carolyn Baker

Reposted from Shift Network Sustainability Showcase


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4 June 2014, Wyoming, debate with H. Leighton Steward, who often represents the fossil-fuel industry. Read about Steward here.


Wyoming debate flyer

June fundraiser event in Powell Wyoming


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Going Dark is available from the publisher here, from Amazon here, from Amazon on Kindle here, from Barnes & Noble on Nook here, and as a Google e-book here. Going Dark was reviewed by Carolyn Baker at Speaking Truth to Power and by more than three dozen readers at Amazon.

Comments 106

  • Recently, over in another forum, an article mentioned that “we are the blame for climate change.”

    This was quickly attacked because “we” does not mean the vast majority of people who are not making money off oil rigs, etc etc etc. The attacker did his best to distance himself from the actions of the 0.1% He really narrowed down the blame to fraction of people.
    I often do so too.

    But the numbers got me thinking. If the 0.1% are the blame for the destruction of the planet, then the 99.9% that sit stupidly by while this is happening really suck. It’s the problem with trying to assess blame on a global problem. Yes, we are at fault. The Koch brothers can move without fear because we aren’t going to do what needs to be done to stop them.

    Sure, we’re not elephant poachers, but writing that elephant poaching is very bad on facebook is hardly a triumph of activism.
    More often than not, we have decided that moral outrage is the same as doing something. It’s not. So elephants get killed, the planet keeps heating up, Obama says he will cut emissions by 2030 (unless a new president over-rides his weak declarations for “the good of the economy”). It’s all shadows and fog. Tricks with mirrors. The logical gymnastics required to think: ‘Nothing is getting done, but I do recycle my boxes, therefore I have done all that can.’

    Realizing I’m too old, cowardly,and (most damning of all), comfortable in my existence I know I’m not going to be throwing
    stones or fomenting revolt beyond a few words here and there. As I mentioned before here and elsewhere, there really isn’t a lot of time spent weeping over the slave labor that provided me with the computer, most of my clothes and good amount of my food. I am deeply ensnared in the belly of the Empire and know how good I have it as a result.

    Other than finger pointing and snarling, I got nothing. Bitter disappointment in the human race in general is my grand contribution to the struggle. If constantly complaining wasn’t so much fun, I’d do even less.

  • Aging new agers, Carolyn Baker & Andrew Harvey, have a nebulous & fluffy prescription for dealing with catastrophic climate change & near term extinction;

    Here is just one paragraph of their childish new age gibberish.

    There is not one practical prescription in Carolyn’s word salad.

    As we confront catastrophic climate change which is likely to result in near-term human extinction, we must ask if we are willing to put love into action, even if we don’t survive. Can we move beyond a triumphalist agenda? Accepting the possibility of near-term extinction is an agony, but an agony that liberates the spiritual warrior in the powers of truth and love in order to discover the diamond hidden in the darkness that cannot be discovered in relentless fighting in order to “overcome.” The diamond can only be acquired by surrendering the need for anyone or anything to survive, even oneself. In the words of Andrew Harvey this is “a glorious and terrible adventure, but it is the antidote to despair.”

    Tell a bewildered Bangladesh farmer who land is washing away that he must be “willing to put love into action.”

    Tell a gasping & sobbing Bangladesh farmer; “It’s an agony, but you are being liberated.”

    As the reeling farmer watches his wife & children drown,” Andre Harvey advises seeing it as; “A GLORIOUS & TERRIBLE ADVENTURE.”

    Tell a displaced Arctic Inuit hunter that he is now a “liberated warrior.”

    Tell a displaced Pacific Tuvaluan that being forced to abandon her ancestral home is a liberating adventure.

    There is a “diamond hidden in the darkness,” if only you will look for it, Carolyn advises.

    So stupid, cruel, uninformed, & utterly foul on its face.

  • No, not muddleheaded literary twit Joe Campbell & his “follow your bliss” mantra.

    In a culture of narcissism follow your bliss was the perfect prescription.

    Jungian archetypes are crazier than sex bespattered Freudian repressions.

    Joe Campbell snookered an entire nation with his Jungian double-talk, & Bill Moyers played right along.

    I lost all respect for Moyers.

    Both of them reaped big bucks from the sinister scam.

    Taking on Joe Campbell is almost as difficult as questioning if Santa’s sleigh can really fly.

    I think that the Koch Bros are following THEIR bliss, now.

  • I don’t know where to start,except that, this long winded,painfully narcissistic, anthropocentric expressed view of the hourly murder of all life on earth can only be assuaged by focusing on ME,WE,I,I,YOU. And the temerity to even mention a truly moral human being such as Derrick Jensen in the context of this worthless me,me,me fucking me,me wallowing in self pity is wretchingly offensive. How does coward after coward end up on the only truth forum on the internet!?!?! There are millions of human and non human living beings that would love for you to stop there sufferring by using the power you possess to stop the worldwide death machine by chaining your body to tar trains, feller-bunchers, coal trains,doors of the financial industry, etcetera, etcetera. These beings would get to, AT LEAST, experience a respite from torture for a short while before fires and starvation engulf us all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • To even use two mutually exclusive terms as shambhala and warrior is to assist the Koch sociopaths in their murderous, raping extravanganza!!!

  • Thank you, Guy & Pauline, for supporting my vision: http://dana.io/terra-nova
    We’re all just a bunch of hypocrites, doing the best we know how.

  • Bless you, Steve.

  • Hey all you creepy pathetic excuses of humanity over at the NSA no reason to waste time at this website. No threat to your corporate slavemasters here. Better to focus on earthfirst,deep green resistance and submedia.

  • I can only wonder what Marie Mason, doing 22yrs in a prison hellhole, thinks of all this stupid earth (read human) hospice crap.

  • Steve, what exactly are you up to? We’re open to harboring EcoTerrorists at Terra Nova, if you’re ready to put your money where your (big) mouth is. Serio.

  • Sorry, I meant to say EcoWarriors. Now we’re definitely on the NSA radar. Bummer.

  • Steve: we all eagerly await news reports of your daring acts as you tie yourself to trains, assassinate oil company executive and toss pipe bombs into the limos of Supreme Court justices. No need to spend more time here with us losers. Go forth and bring about the revolution! I fully support your actions….

    Unless your actions are just typing here, talking shit and being an annoying troll. So what it is, Steve? Are you a revolutionary or just another dime a dozen troll?

  • As we confront extinction, and realize we can do nothing about it, except contribute to it in whatever we do, we must decide (to use a cliche) whether the glass is half full or half empty. This “New Sacred Activism” leans towards the “glass half full” mindset, and smells of the good steward with statements like, “practising good manners toward all species in order to make their demise, and ours, easier.” As a human, I’ll keep my mouth shut when it comes to easing the lot of other species. As for easing my own conscience, I have no expectations.

    My father used to volunteer in a palliative ward. He told me he saw people dying as they had lived as per their character. He didn’t see any revelation. Years later, I saw my father dying in the nursing home. As his life ebbed, he withdrew from conversation, and like other elderly people I knew, tired quickly of the presence of others. He would ask me if I’d seen his mother as all he wanted to do was go home. He died alone. He was not surrounded by family and loved ones when he breathed his last.

    I live alone. Many of us do. Some talk about how wonderful it is. I don’t particularly enjoy it, but that’s the way it goes. When we were a marginal species on this planet, people were poor in technology but rich in kin. Today it’s the opposite. We sit alone with our technology and write missives about how we should aspire to living, or dying. But for those not aspiring to change, to embrace something bigger god help us, we’ll die as we lived in the grey area of life, doing good and harm, up and down, raging and accepting, seeking a little comfort, and waiting to go home.

  • @Steve

    I hear and feel your frustration and passion. “Why don’t we fight back?” Sometimes it seems as though many, if not most, of the things that most people do today in order to “fight” amount to little more than helping themselves feel good while the world burns. In thinking about that question a couple of months ago it came to me that asking that question pretty much equates with asking a forest why it doesn’t fight back while people clear-cut it, or an ant colony while someone dumps gasoline on it and burns it, or a screaming, raging mouse protecting its young while someone stomps on it, or a tribe of indigenous humans shooting arrows at airplanes while getting bombed, machine gunned, and mortared, or tens of thousands of other examples of humans and other species fighting back over millennia.

    One answer, it struck me, looks like this: other species, and we, HAVE fought back, and often DO fight back. We have done all of the things you mentioned, and many have done much, much more. But other species, and we, have fought back in the face of massive over-powering based, ultimately, on the control of the availability of land, food, and water, and, in recent centuries, with that dominance and control having the support of fossil fuel-based science and technology. Many tens of millions of humans and other species have fought back, to death, in many cases to genocide or species extinction, for the past 10,000 years since the beginnings of agriculture–and before. Many nations and indigenous cultures have fought back and died over millennia–all massively over-powered in the face of the human exploit/ expand/ exploit/ expand cycle, just as continues today with us. I think that one misunderstands the situation to think that we, and other species, have not fought, or do not fight. Instead, at least to date, we HAVE fought, DO fight–and for the most part have lost, for sure a tragic and frustrating situation.

    I think it extremely important for us NOT to think about and frame “fighting back” in all-or-none terms as you appear to. We do NOT have to EITHER fight back OR sit back passively in blissful meditation while the world burns. We can fight back in many external ways–including all of the ways that you mentioned and much more–while feeling inner peace and supporting each other in the process. Your statement that “To even use two mutually exclusive terms as shambhala and warrior is to assist the Koch sociopaths in their murderous, raping extravanganza!!!” suggests that you disagree, but I do not see fighting passionately while feeling a sense of inner peace and acceptance of our impending death as contradictory, mutually exclusive processes, either within myself or in other people as you and some others do. So, I do not see Carolyn Baker’s and other’s similar work as “painfully narcissistic” or “anthropocentric” as you have interpreted it. I have not seen anything in Baker’s speaking or writing that suggests that other species have little or no value in comparison with humans. Indeed, I see her and others with similar messages working to help us work and fight more effectively, not less so. Indeed, in reflecting on this it strikes me that anyone who believes that the very high probability of humans soon becoming extinct makes fighting irrelevant, as you and many others appear to assume, equates with a strongly narcissistic, self-centered, anthropocentric perspective!

  • I spent 60 days in solitary confinement in prison as a prison activist in the 80’s. I was beaten by gangs of whites for being friends with a black man . I was also beaten and raped by a gang of blacks just for being white. All the other acts I am involved in your friends at the NSA don’t need to Know. You are right about one thing Grant you are a loser!

  • Bud where did you ever get the idea that I thought the high probability of humans going extinct makes fighting irrelevant when I have been railing against the exact opposite for weeks.

  • And cat I have very limited funds so how would I get to Terra Nova. Not only that the state will not issue me a passport nor even a drivers license, and yet, I succeed in my endeavors quite nicely from time to time.And the last I heard There are no tar sands in Terra Nova,nor mountaintop removal,nor that much of anything that should be challenged!

  • Steve,

    I got the idea that you may think that the high probability of humans going extinct makes fighting irrelevant from your comments today. Please know that I have not necessarily read all of your earlier comments, nor would I necessarily remember them if I have read them. If I have misunderstood you regarding that point and you do not think that way, I sit corrected and I apologize. I did not intend to misrepresent any of your arguments.

  • great article carolyn. thank you for sharing

  • Your best yet, Carolyn. You’ve brought to us so many of the thinkers who are in advance of the realization to come for the many, and we can only guess how fast that realization will come over them and all of us who’ve had these early glimpses.

    Peoples facing destruction have fought back in many ways. The Dog Soldiers were the ones who stayed behind to fight, staking their place in the ground, so their vulnerable families had a chance to temporarily escape the advancing whites:


    In their quieter moments, they must have known it was futile, that their way of life would soon end, and they would not have been able to imagine whether any of their children would survive, or how they would live if they did.

    They lived in this “knowledge” for many years, before it actually concluded.

    (btw, the obsessive madness of their pursuers and the expansionary culture they brought was entirely visible in that time, pre-electricity, pre-cell phone, pre-computer, etc. The idea that such a culture deserves our sympathies toward ITS own survival is ludicrous.)

    So, for the warriors among us, remember those who have gone before, who watched their world ending, and prepare to join them, in spirit and in action.

    And yes, a lot of crying would help to heal us even as this happens; the one psychophysical response most of us have neglected, at great cost to our mental health.

    Next time around, the Ghost Dance is for all of us to join in.

  • Carolyn –

    every word shines like the pure diamond that you are.

  • Why are the streets of New York, Washington D.C., London and Paris so orderly, so quiet?

    Are we – opposition investigative journalists, philosophers and documentary filmmakers – doing such a terrible job? Are we not providing the North American and European public with enough information, enough proof about the monstrous state of the world? Enough so they – the citizens of the Empire – finally get thoroughly pissed off, detach their backsides from their couches and chairs, and flood the capitals and business centers with their bodies, demanding change, demanding the end to atrocities that are being committed all over the world… the end of this imperialist and neo-con madness?


  • from Robert Scribbler; June 3, 2014

    The white, reflective barrier protecting our northern polar region from the heat-amplifying effects of human-caused warming took a severe blow today.

    The National Snow and Ice Data Center’s sea ice area measure essentially fell off a cliff as values plummeted by more than 286,000 square kilometers.

    That’s an area of ice the size of Nevada lost in a single 24 hour period.

    A state-sized region flipping from white, reflective, cooling ice, to dark, heat-absorptive water.

    one more time; That’s an area of ice the size of Nevada lost in a single 24 hour period.

  • Little Lies

    Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies,
    Any pastime you can devise;
    Distract me with fluff,
    Supernatural stuff—
    But don’t tell me everyone dies.

  • “You have an obligation to act, but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. Never consider yourself the cause of the results of your activities, and never be attached to avoiding action.”
    – Bhagavad Gita 2:47

    “Andrew Harvey and I are naming “the New Sacred Activism.””

    That’s because the milieu did not inform about Ancient Normal Action.

    “even if we don’t physically survive.”

    The King Yudhisthira was asked by the Divine manifesting as a spirti:

    Q: “What is the most wonderful thing?”
    A: “The most wonderful thing is that although everyday innumerable humans and their animals die, still people think that they will somehow live forever.”

    “fortifying one’s own connection with the sacred”

    The Divine is not lumpy; hence nothing is sacred. Also, water cannot fortify its connection to wetness, not a pot to clayness.

    “the reward of accepting the reality of near-term extinction is liberating even at the same time that it is agonizing.”

    That’s true for one who overlooks the First Feature of Existence: “All composite things are transient”.

    “Human consciousness is deeply influenced by personal and cultural archetypes or universal themes of which we may or may not be aware.”

    Consciousness is not influenced or affected by anything. The sun is not affected whether the sunlight shines on a sewage ditch or a flower garden.

    “the ultimate purpose is the transformation of consciousness,”

    Now that’s a substantial load of male bovine faecal material. Consciousness is not within spacetime. Hence the reference to the Void, Sunyata, and the Boundless Void, Ein Sof.

    The substrate of grief is found in the Third Feature of Existence: “All composite things are (sources of) sorrow”. Grokking that fact is a concomitant to the freeing of grief from any imposed confines.

    “to feel oneself inextricably connected with it in every cell of the body”

    As long as there is “feel” and “connected”, there is an “I” and a “not-I”, and the mirage persists.

    “The Great Dying cannot be practiced in isolation.”

    Au contraire, the Great Death can only happen separately to each one so Dying. The “I” being recognised as a mirage, the “not-I” also ceases to be a category: the Dreamer awakens into the Divine / Cosmic Dream but the One Who Awakens is not the character in the Dream. The event is the Great Death for that character. It is only after the Great Death that One is Alone, for then there is no other.

    For the unacquainted, there is indeed a tradition that goes back to pre-Buddhist times.

  • fluffy herds of attack puppies on the loose!

  • “Su” “Render” always means giving up. You decide how you want to parse that, and what it means to you, of course.

    I *would like* to understand Carolyn, but I just find it impossible. I have no idea what this means, for example:

    “Contrary to our cherished assumption of vanquishing all forms of injustice, we must ask ourselves if we are willing to put love into action even if we don’t physically survive.”

    You might as well go here:


    When I try to strip everything away, I don’t find “love”, per se, but perhaps tolerance, forgiveness, understanding.. Someone might define that as “love” but I won’t cop to it.. ;-)

  • dee tickly lickly wittle cuddlies going on to terribly tear off and rampage bounce all round!

    like zee furry doof goofs! loooooook out everybodiez! run fo yo lifes!

    parse love all round in zee blender
    ma heart, it ees so sweet and tender
    dis puppy, he so soft and splendor
    dat rage, ees such a funny bender
    dis turd post, ah no never mender

  • Thanks for the link, Lidia. Reading the comments I laughed so hard, it was cathartic.

    And this got me laughing too.

    “ma heart, it ees so sweet and tender
    dis puppy, he so soft and splendor”

    Mo Flo, You’re off your rocker…in a good way. :-)

  • Dear Carolyn

    Interesting position.
    I know your words will help many people.
    There are people, a lot, that need what you provide. Your guides, your point of view.
    You know I do not agree with your point of view, but I guess there is ample space for different positions and views about what to do, and how to face NTHE. It is evident that there is no way to know today, what is the “more” right thing to do.
    And certainly, many people will be more open to your words, than our sometimes angry, obscure, brutal and wildly real view of the future. That many people here do not even know how to handle.
    It is always good to have your words here at NBL.
    They enrich the environment, and provide a different point of view for the same situation. It is much better to have them, than not having them.
    You know that at NBL, there will always be people, to whom your words will be totally out of place.
    But the people that need your words is a lot more than the bunch of NBL.


  • Listening to this gent, one would think that there is no worry: no frying, drying, starving, thirsting, flooding, sickening, killing, etc. in the wings.

    TED Talks: Ray Kurzweil

    Get ready for hybrid thinking

  • The idea of a climate change debate is sort of like a gravity debate or a round earth debate.

    Sort of like wrestling Sus scrofa (domesticus): it will enjoy it while the wrestler gets covered with s**t.

  • For those of you over in the UK (and really anyone who speaks English), Jason Heppenstall of 22 Billion Slaves and Monsta had a conversation about the effects of Industrial Civilization Collapse and how to deal with this in a Positive and Constructive manner, without Giving Up.

    Interview with Jason Heppenstall of 22 Billion Energy Slaves

    For Batters who can’t stand me, no issues here, I didn’t join in this podcast, I hadda work. ;)


  • Carolyn seems determined to mine the ‘situation’ for some way for humans to feel good about themselves. I guess your personal tolerance for such endeavours might depend in the end on how much infant training you got in feeling good about yourself? Maybe those who never had a chance to feel good about themselves are simply gobsmacked at the determination of those who did to maintain this primal orientation in the face of the mounting evidence? Maybe it’s the other way around- (over)-compensations?

    Humanity’s job-description: ?
    Unconscious Biosphere Terminators required. This is a live-in position. All necessary sublimations and rationalisations provided, both individually and collectively.

    At last, a proper existential cop? :) I guess you know your in trouble when that floats your boat. I’d like to see the episode with the backstory of how he ended up in that job…

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27691207 The time-honoured practice of readjusting ‘safety limits’ to deal with economic exigencies.

  • Dr. Jeremy Jackson presents Ocean Apocalypse at the US Naval War College:

  • We tend to think of climate change as incremental and inexorable, like seeing old friends age at the annual reunion. There are some new wrinkles, a step has been lost, and you know there’s no going back, but at least you can still look forward to years of friendship. But ecosystems are wired with tipping points. A tweak here and there can make things unrecognizable tomorrow. Glaciers melt. Forests ignite. And suddenly your old pal isn’t answering her phone anymore.

    Yes, we can adapt. Us and the gulls and the rats. But it will be awfully lonely out there.


  • In a study published in the latest issue of Paleoceanography, the scientists estimate that ocean acidity increased by about 100 percent in a few thousand years or more, and stayed that way for the next 70,000 years. In this radically changed environment, some creatures died out while others adapted and evolved. The study is the first to use the chemical composition of fossils to reconstruct surface ocean acidity at the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM), a period of intense warming on land and throughout the oceans due to high CO2.
    “This could be the closest geological analog to modern ocean acidification,” said study coauthor Bärbel Hönisch, a paleoceanographer at Columbia University’s Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory. “As massive as it was, it still happened about 10 times more slowly than what we are doing today.”


  • Confessions of an Economic Hitman w. John Perkins

    [listen to this ~26 min. video, especially at the 15 min. mark and going forward]

    Though I don’t agree that the “awakening” that’s (supposedly) happening all over the world will translate into meaningful action [THAT MAKES A REAL DIFFERENCE], I think Mr. Perkins is correct in his layout of the world-wide corporate problem.

    ulvfugl: great links there – thanks.

    Carolyn: I read your essay. Your words and work will help some people and for that you should be thanked. I appreciated your article over on Seemorerocks about Joanna Macy too. There are a lot of spiritually sick people populating the globe and many of them reside in positions of power and wealth in the corporate world. They can’t even recognize their illness (or disease) since it’s completely sanctioned by the existing social/economic system we “live” under, and don’t see any problems.

    [from Seemorerocks link]

    “To Live in the Fullness of Time”, Joanna Macy 2014-02-14

    This woman LIVES what she speaks. This is well worth the listen, though long (almost 2 hrs.).

  • Please realize that the woman in the above video is older and displays the sometimes annoying gaps in her speech.

    Here’s an interesting phenomena to consider:


    Unprecedented solar eruption filmed by NASA

    Solar observatory views coronal mass ejection measuring five Earths wide, 7 1/2 Earths tall, and traveling 1.5 million mph; took educated guesses, luck to get

    A gigantic solar eruption, the likes of which has never been seen before, was captured in video from NASA’s Interface Region Imaging Spectrograph, otherwise known as IRIS, a solar observatory that travels around Earth in a polar orbit. [check it out]

  • Hard(est) empirical data from the NSIDC about near term extinction & the price of bread.

    Robert Scribbler has phrased it without a wasted word or phoneme.

    It is as powerful & predictive a statement as we have ever heard in our lifetimes.

    “That’s an area of ice the size of Nevada lost in a single 24 hour period.”

    During the course of one June day; 110,000 square miles of Arctic ice melted.

    The minimum Arctic sea ice extent ever recorded is 1.32 million sq. miles – recorded in September 2012.

    1.32 divided by .11 = 12

    What is the probability that the Arctic will be ice free or damn close to it this September?

    Stay tuned for ice extent for June, July, & August.

    We are spiraling down into hell on earth.

    ONE MORE TIME; “That’s an area of ice the size of Nevada lost in a single 24 hour period.”

  • http://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/06/04-4

    Some solid thoughts from Tim DeChristopher

  • ” we make ourselves available to 1) Bearing witness to the likely irreversible horrors of climate chaos and 2) Commitment to compassionate service to all living beings who suffer with us.”

    I think you’re on to something here. It sure seems to me that bearing witness is a big part of our role in all this. It’s something I discount so many times because it’s more of a passive thing, this witnessing…but it just has to be important, because I keep getting so many opportunities thrust my way. It hardly seems random.

    I was thinking that what we should do, collectively,as a species, is to put a satellite in permanent geosynchronous orbit that will explain, for all time, what happened here, in case some future Captain Kirk shows up and wonders what killed us off. I guess the odds of that are pretty low, but it seems fitting to leave something behind…our story with the obvious moral message.

    Something along the lines of Trevor Paglen’s Last Pictures Project, but with more detail. Maybe you’ve seen that.


    I say we should do that knowing full well that it would represent a big waste of fossil fuel and produce CO2 out the wazoo. I don’t care. To paraphrase Otter, this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture on somebody’s part, and we’re just the guys who can do it.

    (The above is intended to be slightly tongue-in-cheek, so none of you hardliners blow a gasket, okay?)

    And compassionate service…I expect we all will get some opportunities thrust our way on that too.

    A life of service is not what I was shooting for, you know, when I started out. It’s interesting to me how that chance to serve happens to different people. Some people seem to be born into a life of serving others, some are pushed into it when someone they love gets sick and needs their help. Some have an epiphany like Mother Teresa on the streets of Calcutta.

    For me the path toward serving others has been a very gradual process that’s had partly to do with my work in health care and partly to do with family. Family has been my anchor in this world, and made me connected to other lives in a way I don’t think would have happened had I not had children. And you just get older and wiser, and sadder, and sometimes it moves you to try to act.

    As someone who is often derisively viewed as a “prepper” or (worse) a “survivalist”, I’d just like to say that my preps are really aimed at putting myself in a position to see to the needs of others as much as anything. I think we’ll live to see a lot of suffering, and I intend to do what I can to help. I know I didn’t have to wait for the end of the world to try to help another human being (and I can smile at the irony there)…but seeing as how it’s ending…it brings the subject of compassionate service to the forefront whether we’re ready or not.

  • @Eddie – how about something like this – it’s been debunked, but what a piece of artwork! Love it!


  • Oh my dog, now our civic duty is being called sacred.

    Excuse me while I gag.

    I’m all for resistance and think any means should at least be considered. Never have I defined it as “sacred.”

    Older people here might remember when citizens were called citizens instead of consumers. When being a citizen carried with it rights and responsibilities, one of which is to be informed and aware and involved.

    It was just the way things were.

    Now we gotta call it sacred? Pulleeaase….religious freaks are part of the problem. No way do I want to be associated with anything remotely resembling religion.

    “Yes, it is possible to destroy the things that can eliminate us, but not without awareness on our side. Selfishness is born in the gap where karma has been excluded. We can no longer afford to live with discontinuity.” See? With the new age bullshit generator, I can sound like Carolyn Baker too. That will be $250 please.

  • wildwoman, run away with me.
    I yearn for you tragically.
    Do you have the precious essence(s, or do you where they be at?

    from sweet Baby Carolyn’s own site;

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    Contact me to get started.

  • Wildwoman, let me buy you a beer, or a cup of tea if that is your thing.

  • Anthony, much appreciated. See you at 4:20?

  • Join the Army!

    I want to be doing doom right,
    So I’ll fight with all of my might;
    I will fight to the death
    With my very last breath,
    When I figure out whom I should fight.

  • mo flow,

    love it! Keep it up!

  • Would you listen to Adolph Hitler give a speech on “Forgiveness?”

    I guess not.

    But, in the end, we are all hypocrites.

    I realize that I am a product of Industrial Civilization – I lived a super comfy life – riding on the backs of impoverished people everywhere. Since becoming aware, I’ve tried to make my life as miserable as possible. And even though I have good moments, peaceful moments, even joyful moments – for the most part, my life is shit and STILL I’m living better than probably 90% of the Earth’s population.


  • sweet knarffles of da forums says

    “From Merriam Webster dictionary……

     highly valued and important : deserving great respect”

    such a silly knarffles! why he ever so bother about meanings? !?

    see red buttonz?? they say push me push me! thats the fun! squuueeek squeeeekie squeekeers! it just drives the little pupsters so bonkoz, they tumble all overthems and growlz their heads off in gaggly gales of giggles and snarlz.

    push da red buttons and bounce dee highest
    we snark so loud we pretend we flyest
    jump up and down my doomz da driest
    slap new age woossies and make dem cryest

    woFo wOoF! bark (burp)

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  • I’m conflicted here. In one way I understand – and, in my way, practice – a calm ‘bearing witness’ to the steady and accelerating destruction and murder of this beautiful, diverse, interesting, quite possibly unique,life-giving and sustaining planet,this earthy home, a place I (already) dearly love. All my adult life, as a full-time organic gardener (and writer on the same topic) I’ve worked with – and in some ways, for – the earth. I couldn’t be sadder about what is happening if my own mother were being tortured in front of my eyes.

    Co-operating (note, I did NOT say ‘co-creating’, one of those weird self-aggrandizing new age terms) with the ways and means of the land and growing lots of good food (and encouraging others in that direction): that has been my ‘activism’.

    At the same time I have been a card-carrying member and beneficiary of this deadly civilization, first because I didn’t know any better, and later on (like, now), because I ‘enjoy’ the ‘creature comforts’ of running hot water, and fresh fish and imported fruit (all of which I’d relinquish in a heartbeat if I thought it would make a blind bit of difference).

    As I learn more (and more) about the ‘end game’, the god-awful final stages, the hellish and hideous aftermath of this civilization – welcome to the wasteland – my love and appreciating for ‘every living thing’ (other than the deliberately cruel, the willfully ignorant and incurably materialistic, the power-mad, money-hungry, slave-driving members of homo destructivus) grows and grows, so (like Sabine and others here) I stop and greet the tiny blue butterfly sipping nectar from tiny blue flowers, I let small spiders colonize dusty corners, I stop and coax snakes, sunning themselves in the middle of the gravel road, to the (relative) safety of the side, ditto turtles, while I listen to the trees speak of their distress all around.

    So, Ms. Baker and friend Harvey are ‘naming’ (and presumably prescribing, and possibly copyrighting for purposes of ‘branding?)a third perspective: “the New Sacred Activism.”

    And this is what happens in me: as soon as the thing is named and described and prescribed, then the heart of it somehow shrinks, or starts to get lost under what some others are characterizing as ‘new age’ concepts and verbiage (which I suspect is just the way Ms. Baker is in the habit of thinking, speaking and writing, because it’s served her well so far). I could say the same about essays and talks that are loaded with data and charts and graphs and numbers and percentage and chemistry – I attend for a while then glaze over. And yet, somehow, the essence sinks in, I learn something new or have thoughts, feeling and perceptions confirmed.

    Baker says: “that the fundamental issue is that we are being challenged to move beyond the triumphalist assumption that we can and must, through our activism, defeat capitalism, catastrophic climate change, economic corruption and collapse, and yes, the extinction of species, including our own.”

    In my mind, this is both awkward writing – I’m not an idiot and I had to read it a few times to get the point – but pretends to describe a ‘challenge’ that the collective ‘we’ face, whoever ‘we’ are. Speaking for myself, I never assumed for a minute that my actions would make the slightest dent in capitalism, climate change and collapse – so I guess I don’t have to move beyond that.

    Baker: “Indeed, our current predicament compels us to transcend the binary inference that if we do not conquer a diabolical system, we are only colluding with it and exhibiting shameful cowardice.

    How about: Yo, listen up folks: Get over the either/or idea that you’ve got to defeat this nasty system, or else you’re some kind of a whoos-ass coward, or worse, you secretly really like it.

    I find a fair bit to admire (and a bunch that’s predictable) in Baker’s take on things. I printed her essay out and read it quietly. Sure, some of it sound like left-overs from the golden age of the self-help movement, but what’s not to like about the encouragement to be kind to self and others, human and non; to calmly bow to the inevitable, while still feeling the heart-wrenching and maddening pain of it all; and the realistic notion of staying actively on-side with the earth and all her inhabitants, while not expecting activism or good-will to win the day – well, maybe the day, but not the emerging future. To throw in a few more new-age-isms: Do it anyway; detach from outcome.

    As for mental health ‘pros’ providing aid and succour for the masses traumatized by climate driven upheavals – good luck with that.

    Not to be too cynical, but maybe this new category of ‘eco-psychologist’ is Ms. Baker’s way of ‘naming’ a emergent (or emergency)career path for herself and others. No: that would just be more disaster capitalism at work.

  • @1800
    Unconscious Biosphere Terminators quick, copyright it !

    Are the (w)raps served for lunch at your New Age seminar gluten-free?

    I’d offer you a custom-made barf-bag for your gag, but all of my recycled paper was stolen (oops…liberated) by a bunch of ‘activists’ who needed it for signs (that mostly said “Hooray for our side”) used to advertise that they were performing their sacred doodie.

    Prep on…At some point the musical chairs game will go silent and it’ll be better to have a bunch of stuff like food & meds than it’ll be to have a pile of fiat currency.

    Gedankenexperiment: Along with their human animal companions, an Uzi and a roll of silver dimes walk into a negotiating room to haggle out some commerce. Which pet is going back to their roost with two owners ?

    …is to put a satellite in permanent geosynchronous orbit that will explain, for all time, what happened here, in case some future Captain Kirk shows up and wonders what killed us off.

    Consider the possibility that an Enterprise & crew have been around here for quite some time and that from their perspective what we see as planetary murder and ecocide is just terraforming that’s proceeding as planned and on schedule.
    If so, the samizdat memo below may shed some light on the power relationships. Jagger as an alien Kirk ? Makes more sense when you consider the Borges influences on writer Donald Cammell and Nick Roeg as the director…coupla part-time prophets working a possible angle 40+ years ago.

    Likely Limits to Science Department
    Physicist Lisa Randall says:
    1) at the Planck level of 10 E35-39 meters, the concept of distance may break down, and,
    2) in order to observe some thing at that level, we would need a device so powerful that the examination process would create a (small) black hole.
    To quote the dev’l, “OK, everyone – coffee break’s over, back on your heads!”

  • da fluffy herds are aT zee ramparTs!

    do not change dees station
    do no not broadcast yourselfs into zee worldz
    attack puppies haz you surrrrrrounded
    and you shall all submit your wonderz to zee rolling pin of our great doomzter flatTeningz

    not any b u t the mooost wicked right spoken of the doomzdered will become
    of us, for they cannot
    comprehend of our wicked fat tummy rubbing cuteness

    our fluffyness shall not abide
    nor be wantonly abused with zee woo-ness

    it co-creatz its own co-ness by its own paw
    and tatooz the chosen wid
    dee sweet good lickings of tongues and zee cold wet nozers.

    we noz, oh yes we noz.

  • you know, they have us right where they want us. we are already acting like the mugwump sucking morons in “The Naked Lunch.”

    I don’t care.

    I don’t think.

  • mo flow,

    Salsa flavored Lewis Carroll with LSD!

  • A whopping 42 percent of Americans continue to believe God created human beings in their present form 10,000 years ago


  • I have never known about somebody talking about the following issue.

    I was wondering what impact would mean the rising of the sea level to the existing nuclear plants. Many of them are close to shore, and at a low level. Even the first stage of ice melting (Greenland), means s problem to some.
    The sea water is not the best cooling method for nuclear fuel rods, as far as I understand.
    50 (just a guess) of the 400 nukes of the world underwater would mean a lot of radiation put into the seawater.
    Would they melt down underwater?

  • Like many of the commenters here, I also find the basic message of the essay to be something I can agree on once it is decoded into simple wisdom….be kind,less destructive,keep your eyes open to the truth,allow yourself moments of serious sadness, etc.
    However I start feeling uncomfortable with the idea of finding my own personal immeasurable joy on the backs of all the pain and suffering we have inflicted on every other living thing.

    Carolyn said – “discover the diamond hidden in the darkness”

    Its a apt metaphor. Massive destruction to the land is requires to mine a diamond hidden in the darkness and the destroyer(via slave labor) gets a nice shiny bauble to hold up to the light and say “pretty,pretty”.

    I have been calling my brother a Banana Slug for these past 12 years and even carved him his own wooden slug totem. I’ll have my lawyer call your lawyer and maybe something can be worked out.

  • “our fluffyness shall not abide
    nor be wantonly abused with zee woo-ness”

    Mo flo

    From reading through this thread I have reached the point where as soon as I see “mo flo” at the top of a comment before I even get to the fluffiness I start dissolving into weak helpless laughter and people look at me askance….oh thank you for zee woo-ness…

  • mo flow,

    Y’all are soundin’ kinda scriptural up dere.

    Reminds me of the New Testament thing that goes sump’n like:

    Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the leashed of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.


    If you’re referencing characters from Naked Lunch, written by the guy that Mailer described as “the only American novelist living today who may conceivably be possessed by genius”, then, if only mostly subconsciously, you’re still thinking.

    I’ve always noticed and been impressed that Mailer did not say “possessed OF genius”.

    At least your train has some good reading material in those seat-back pouches.
    Sorry if any of the above kept you from achieving what Burroughs used to call “the absence of cerebral event”.

    Keep on

  • The debate went as expected.

    It is to be remembered that the non-verbal, non-rational lizard/reptile brain, the limbic system, is associated with emotions (short timeframe) and values (long timeframe), and is the boss. The mammalian brain – the cortex, particularly the frontal cortex, is associated with the rational and verbal intellect which appears to be in the driver’s seat. However it is the chauffeur, looking for rationalisations to justify the positions of the reptilian brain.

    Politicians and advertisers know that to influence behaviour of the masses, stirring up emotions and appealing to values is more effective than intellectual arguments.

    Even scientists are loath to change their world-views, as noted by Max Planck:

    “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it”

    Also attributed to him, perhaps apocryphally:

    “Science advances one funeral at a time.”

    The gent will go to his grave (if he gets one in the course of NTHE) with his beliefs. And he will blame the messengers for all adversities.

  • Wildwoman

    Powerful writing, go for it!
    Just ….

    An electronic version of the illumination of the old world( but hay I use candles now anyway)?

    I’ll take the old world.

    Posting in a public library right now.
    Just witness three young women kissing each other goodbye, two staying one leaving. Regardless of their relative attractiveness in my eyes, they warmly display open but still discrete greetings(and goodbyes) with real affection.
    So gratifying to see some here in Afraidia can be human still.
    When did this disappear in North Merika? What decade? Soon laws will pass here that discourage such activity, and a mandatory drug test, on the spot, drone assisted of course.
    A candle on the dark…..

  • Missed the live debate but watched the afterward ‘discussion’.

    Brought back many memory of my Catholic upbringing.

    Scientists argue on the open, level playing field of reason, logic, and data. That is not to say that scientists do not have faith, but that their faith is narrowly focused on the ground rules. Scientists have faith that any discussion will be based on a level playing field of reason, logic, and data.

    In a faith-based, religious debate, all is fair in defense of dogma. Which means using the language of science to lie about reason, use twisted logic, and false data.

    So how can the two groups possibly communicate?

  • Had a chance, and maybe blew it.

    Monday, while doing some mundane and not too strenuous tasks, I felt the onset of a MI. As I experienced all the tell tale symptoms in spades, a cold thought crept into space. Maybe it’s time to let go, it seems it would have been easy enough to stop listening to voices barking, to hang in there.

    My mate knew enough to call for help and in short order, I’m taking my first helicopter ride, (dang, didn’t get to see a thing) and I was in the Cath Clinic within the golden hour. One stent later, pain gone, circulation restored, and I’m among the living and not a drooler.

    What will probably be a ginormous fee for service, one can’t think of all the FF, both literally and embedded, it took to stave off the final dirt nap. No sense at this point in getting all existential, events happened so fast, I gave up control to others to choose to stick around for what really? Does anybody need any more evidence, more study, more research, that billions are spent to keep folks like mushrooms, re: just how totally screwed humanity is, and we seal our fate with each passing day spent in the grasp of IC.

    The scariest part was my documents show the choice of No Code and DNR. Well when you get to the ER without your wallet, guess what, none of what is chosen is in play, you’re in their hands. Now I have to give this chap a copy of my documents showing my choice. Paddles OK, CPR OK, no invasive procedures, no heroics, nothing done that will extend life as I never experienced it. In fact, put me down like a beloved companion. When I informed the heart guy, I had no intention of anybody or organization spending 500K to give me 4 more months on this mortal coil, he looked at me as if I was an apostate.

    Every effort to stave off FF consumption was just spent keeping one more economic slave alive. If I lived by candle light, and cooked with wood, from here on, I could never repay my carbon debt. I dutiful thanked the heart guy and staff for saving a 60 year old man, and being nice about it. Secretly wanting to flee as soon as the ability presented, rather than consented to stay and run up a ginormous bill. A bill that will be evidence of the scam, called health care for those lucky enough to have some provision for the scam.

    What I experienced as the night went sleepless after having a clot/stent job, was evidence of the conflict between courage of thought, vs. courage of action. In this case, I abdicated action left to my mate, and the folks still getting a paycheck to keep old beekeepers alive. I with total consent agreed to run up a false debt, blow a carbon chunk, and fall deeper into the grasp of IC and big Pharma.

    So yeah, I loved being greeted by my companions, calls from friends expressing thanks for being among the living, the look on my mate’s face when the cardiologist confirmed minor damage. All brought feelings of gratitude. Mixed however was the idea, I might have blown it. While the crushing feeling and not getting any air, are rather painful, even in a morphine induced fog, ‘it could be a lot more painful, more hideous, and involve all that is loved in my view of things’ trickled like a rivulet of doubt along the river of my mind.
    Absurd what flows while looking as the seconds wind down. Then magic adds more time on the clock. Is this hubris, the extension of life, by magic a good part of collapse? Seems rather obvious considered how we are en cultured these dwindling seasons.

    And for what, a continued front row seat at the freak show. Did I blow a chance to check out of this mortal coil, by just not doing anything?
    Well according to the heart magician, if I take his potions, and follow his story, I might get a chance to get back and tell some more.

    Add me to your list of admirers, I’d shout you a beer anytime.
    @ Ulf
    Consider to suffer some numbskulls (this one included) and post those stories that lead to better understanding and hence a better grasp on the STORY. TY
    Your message is meaningless, and it makes you a bit so too. Rather than tell us what to feel, how to feel, how to go a about feeling, tell us how you’re feeling, thinking and experiencing collapse. Tell us how you feel when asked why you act as a financial vampire to those suffering cognitive dissonance? Do you practice a gift economy, do you participate in barter? Do we in this community need a high priced consultant to look at our watches and tell us what time it is? Thank Gawd you haven’t yet told us just how much time is left on our watches.

    Constantly peering into the abyss is one thing, having danced with the Reaper, his breath stank, and he stepped on my toes good, a time or two, but I broke his grasp, and sat out the last of the dance. This time.

    My bullshit meter is exhausted, I squirm as I experience the hypocrisy of my most recent orgy of FF consumption. Right in this moment, I feel joy at seeing another sunrise, see my mate’s face in the morning sun, set out with my companions on a walk of discovery each morn, but my shadow of grief and sadness is never far away. Hence the confusion, the conflict, seeing, smelling, hearing collapse, it is all around and a constant companion. Awareness is a fucking curse, if I could go back and take the blue pill, sadly I fear I’d be in line in a heartbeat.

    Apologies for vomiting on every ones shoes.


  • @ bkpr

    Well, congratulations in having survived, another minute, another day. I’m glad you are still around. Hope everything seems bright and shiny for you ? :-)
    Yeah, I know the conundrum, I used to take a hard line against Big Pharma and synthetic medicines at one time, and then I got acute pneumonia, and in hospital I explained to the doctor my position, and he listened carefully, and then he said ‘Yes, I understand, but either you retian that view and in a day or two will probably be dead, or you swallow these pills and get better, so you must think about it and choose’, and it was a sort of zen koan, and I chose to forego my principles, which were not as deeply considered as I had previously thought them to be, hahahaha, and choose to stay alive a bit longer.

    And I’ve been in at least half a dozen car crashes where people would have said nobody could have survived that. The paradoxes of technology. We urgently need more healthy young people to get killed in crashes, so that their organs can be transplanted into sick old people to let them live longer. Jacques Ellul explains, technology brings us these ‘benefits’.

  • Well, I started the year with a taste of my own medicine. I was the first physician to administer clotbuster many moons ago for a stroke at the hospital where I worked. I have been retired more than five years now. I had some vertigo when walking from an ATM to my car at the bank in the first week of January 2014 one evening. The vertigo persisted, followed by tingling in the right upper and lower limbs with numbness and nausea. Having worked Emergency Medicine 26 years, I hate to go to the Emergency Department without a good reason. It was one of the most difficult medical decisions I ever made to convince myself that I was indeed having a left posterior circulation stroke. By the time I got out of the car in the Emergency Department parking lot, my right leg and foot although visibly present and functional (I could walk on it), was absent as far as feeling them was concerned.

    Well, I was there within half an hour of the onset, and did have a left posterior circulation stroke, and got the clotbuster. Got out the next evening: just over 24 hours. Have some residual numbness in my right second, third and fourth toes and the right sock feels as if it is made of paper. Could have been a helluva lot worse sans clotbuster. Or with a bleed into the brain (a known complication of the clotbuster). Clotbuster = Tissue Plasminogen Activator: when it finds itself around fibrin (the fibres that form blood clots) it converts plasminogen found in the plasma (the non-cellular part of the blood) into plasmin, which breaks down fibrin into fibrin degradation products, breaking up the clot. Not quite as good as Dr. McCoy’s tricorder, but that’s the best we have for now.

  • @Infanttyrone: “quick, copyright it!”

    I’m pretty sure that that would be an ‘exactly wrong’ course of action? Badlands will provide a link to a linguistics professor who had ‘my’ idea and ran with it a year ago!… :) The world is chock-full of unconscious plagiarisers. I’m not conceited enough to think I’m not one of ’em.

    I guess someone with Latin chops could do the translation on ‘unconscious biosphere terminator’? It’ll probably be a bit more cumbersome than ‘sapiens sapiens’, but, you know… Extinction is one thing, but extinction with shabbily inaccurate nomenclature is altogether a much more serious matter… :)

    I enjoyed Lidia’s new age bullshit generator link. However, I’ll confess that there’s a bet-hedging refugee from Pandora’s box lurking in a small dusty corner of my mind that asks: “What if they are right? Maybe you really do make your own reality?” So, having diligently practiced their affirmations, absorbed their channelings, listened to their guardian angels and spirit-guides, the new-agers have all transcended to fourth-dimension reality, and, for the real high-flyers, beyond, leaving ‘us’, a sort of remedial class of 3-D obsessed janitors, behind to spectacularly fail to clean up the mess they left behind getting there… but that’s OK, because the supreme consciousness loves us all indiscriminately… :)

  • Just so you guys know what else you could be doing, and what is probably in store for your invulnerable 1st world kiesters: Thailand update: Now over 3000 persons in military detention. All but disappeared. No known total numbers. A few names known. All names unknown. All inaccessible, incommunicado, w/o access to legal representation. Los Desaparecidos. Judicial system converted to military courts. All trials will be military tribunals. Several open minded moderately progressive professors from across the country in lockdown. Nitirat Lawyers still in lockdown. Best union organizer Somyot still in 11 year sentence, his wife and son in lockdown, inaccessible. Civil organizer Sombat fled the country and his daughter under harassment in her school. Prime Minister elected Feb 2 to office now in house arrest. Leaders of her political party captured, released and now under gag order. Former PM Thaksin’s son in lockdown. Best union organizer who is not in prison Jittra Cotchadet called in by military. Citizens now guilty of breaking military coup “announcements”, not laws. Gatherings of over 4 prohibited. All coup protests declared illegal. Women up to 70 years old arrested for protesting the coup. Woman snatched from the street by military cops posing as taxi. Constitution, Senate, Legislature dissolved. Elections “maybe” in 18 months. Jakrob Penakir threatening protest base in exile. Did I miss anything?

  • I stayed up to listen to the “debate” which was basically some highly paid wooly old, mumbling southern guy “defending” his fossil fuel existence with lies, logical nonsense and made up facts vs Guy’s honest straight-forward (but modified so as to not scare the audience I guess) recitation of the facts and cited science to declare that indeed it’s time to worry. Just before the feed was lost (during the Q & A) someone in the audience asked about extinction (the only time the word was mentioned afaik) but I didn’t get to hear the answer.

    If you go by the applause meter after each person spoke, someone commenting thought that the pro-FF, no problem with CO2 man “won.”
    Carolyn called bullshit on him early-on and that Wyoming was probably too conservative to hear the facts. Guy was the picture of calm.

    bkpr, ulvfugl, Robin – geez guys, I didn’t know you were so recently in the state of medical emergency! Really sorry to hear that! i’m of the same age (mid-60’s) and am expecting to go out while gardening some day – like in The Godfather when the family patriarch collapses in his garden during the laughter and play of his very young companion who is too self-absorbed to be paying attention to grandpa.

    I don’t want anything to do with hospitals. My youngest son works as a perfusionist in the OR everyday and agrees with me that it’s probably not worth the cost for some of us ol’ timers (but that the choice is up to the people involved). Hospitals are having trouble with mrsa (and Hep C) among other problems, charge astronomical fees and have been captured by the big capitalists as a prime income stream – if they don’t soak you good there, they get you at the old folks home, where they keep you alive long enough to drain all of your economical worth.

    I’ve instructed my family to let me die at the first chance – no ambulance to the emergency room, no EMTs on hand to keep me alive, no nothing (so during a stroke or heart attack, please just ignore me and i’ll go away – and just bury me in the back yard near the dogs). The problem of course is – yeah, but what if you get cancer or some other such slow-painful-death? In that case, like with the on-set of catastrophic collapse (no water, no food at the store, no fuel at the filling station) – i’d like to be among the first people OUTTA HERE! So maybe arrangements can be made, say using my fossil fueled vehicle for one last “joy-ride.” There are lots of other ways to bow out gracefully and I hope I’m in good enough shape to pull it off when it’s time.

    Staying alive to witness the death of our biosphere isn’t going to be fun. i’ll stay as long as I can naturally (to help if I can), but don’t want to be wheelchair bound and drooling – a mere sick shell without energy or dignity – to see the end of it all and being a drain on the remaining resources.

    Just my 2 cents.

  • Robin Datta

    What’s going on…. you’re speaking normal, non-upanishadic style English? (sorry, just had to dig)


    Here is a nice story.

    A bat from New Guinea previously thought Extinct for 120 years, has been found in a 2012 survey.

    ‘Presumed Extinct Bat Found In Papua New Guinea After 120 Years’


    Either this single specimen is not the only one, and there are more and they were not really extinct, or this specimen is a very, very old bat, and just doesn’t want to give up, not going quietly into the night, (very poetic, a bat not going quietly into the night), one tough old bastard!!

    Wow, this bat is not extinct after all – saved – just in time to go extinct all over again, for sure!

  • 18000days

    “… Extinction is one thing, but extinction with shabbily inaccurate nomenclature is altogether a much more serious matter…”

    Priceless !

    (so good, I blew my 2 post rule for the day)

  • For those looking at industrial medicine and hospital machinery, this is worth reading. “How Doctors Die.”


    My goal is to die in a field somewhere and be eaten by wildlife.
    Of course it is possible I will take a long swim and get nibbled up by fish. Or if I get killed in a food riot, my corpse along with others will get dumped into a pit. What do I care? I’ll be dead. But I certainly want to avoid death in a hospital bed, followed by postmortem toxic injections into my corpse, to then be burned into ashes with the heat not being used for anything.

  • The truth is very unpopular, even when the lies are so apparent.
    People are funny like that.

  • Isn’t a Master of Theology comparable to an Expert in Make-Believe?

  • 1800days

    Yeah, I figured you’d get the irony and not rush over to a lawyer’s office.
    I played with online Latin translators a bit this AM and came up with a lot of candidates, but choosing among them 50+ years after taking one year of Latin in high school is a bit of a crapshoot (“mittet feces” per Google). My best guess is “conscientiam interfectorem terreno”, but I’d only bet about 0.10 USD on it being the best.
    At least it has the word ‘infect’ imbedded in it, which should suit the feelings of many posters here. If they’re not into packing heat during the zombie apocalypse, at least they can meet the future with a loaded phrase (“locutio onustus”).

    If Nietzsche were here writing about changing habitat and living for the day for a flamenco fusion band, it might not sound like the soundtrack for a My Little Pony video.

  • It’s easy to discount Carolyn Baker since she obviously is a hypocrite. But, so am I. I say some pretty profound things myself sometimes – even surprise myself. And, again, would you listen to Adolph Hitler give a lecture on the topic of “Forgiveness?” Probably not. So, here too, you have a choice…

    None of us are innocent. Civilization requires that we lie, cheat, and steal – all the while acting like we are not – and we become less and less human as become more and more abstract.

    When they come for the guilty, we will join Carolyn on the trail to the death camps, and our bodies will lay in the same pile as hers and rot in the same dirt as hers. Isn’t that enough?


  • “Isn’t a Master of Theology comparable to an Expert in Make-Believe?”

    More like a Shaman with all the juice squeezed out.

  • Harvard Divinity School offers four degree programs: master of theological studies (MTS), master of divinity (MDiv), master of theology (ThM), and doctor of theology (ThD), key features of which are briefly compared in the table below.”

    In the non-theistic traditions, the emphasis is on realisation, not on scripture or dogma. It is said in all of those traditions that the realised person has no need for them; the realised person’s guidance always supersedes all scripture and dogma. The sunshine is the same, but a clear window supersedes a chink in a wall.

  • “emphasis is on realisation’ = Make-Believe
    whose realization? YOURS?

  • Make-Believe
    whose realization? YOURS?

    There is no realisation possible for automatons, biological (meat-robots) or otherwise. Since one cannot experience the awareness that another may have, the only awareness that I have is my own. There is no proof that anyone else is anything other than a meat-robot. (Nor for that matter if anyone else does indeed have awareness, is there any proof to that one that I am anything other than a meat robot).

    Since “you” refers to some other, with no way to find out whether or not it is a meat-robot, any attribution of realisation to the referent in “YOURS” is entirely presumptive and deniable.

  • Part of what I said to NPDC on 4th June, which was live-streamed, is below.. Nothing fundamental will change because the system demands that nothing fundamental changes, and all the system are in place to ensure that western societies are driven off the cliff in the pursuit of an impossible [industrialised]future. (The Guy McPherson quote elicited a few laughs).


    ‘It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. -J Krishnamurti

    ‘Think about what you allow yourself to know. Think about what you pass by, ignore, deny, and defend. That defines you.’ -Julius Sequerra

    The final battle between GOOD and EVIL has been raging for over 40 years (since ‘Limits to Growth’, 1972).

    The forces of evil –primarily led by banks, corporations and churches- have won because they control governments and the media (television, radio, ‘newspapers’ etc.) and control the minds of most people.

    Opportunists and minions of the financial-industrial empire are well rewarded for maintaining the illusions generated by the Matrix. Those trapped in the Matrix cannot see what is right in front of them (or don’t want to) and continually vote for, and promote, oppression and destruction of the future (their grandchildren’s, their children’s, or their own) always taking the ‘Blue Pill’ which maintains the illusions, and never taking the ‘Red Pill’ which reveals the truth.

    ‘Only two things are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.’ -Albert Einstein

    Concrete and steel buildings do not fall at free-fall speed as a consequence of short-lived, low-temperature fires. Titanium alloy aircraft engines do not evaporate upon impact with grass. Off-course aircraft are not normally permitted to fly around for up to an hour-and-half in the most heavily-defended airspace on Earth. The official narrative of 9/11 requires belief in scientific impossibilities (steel melting at below 300oC, objects meeting resistance falling at free-fall speed, temperatures in excess of 3,000oC generated by impacts etc.) and other absurdities.

    ‘When you’re dead you don’t know you’re dead but people around you feel it. It’s the same when you’re stupid.’
    -Emeritus professor Guy McPherson

    9/11 was an inside job, a false flag operation. George Bush lied; Tony Blair lied; John Howard lied; Helen Clark lied. John Key lies. Anyone with a properly functioning brain knows that.

    In addition to the lies about global terrorism and ‘sleeper cells of Al Qaida’, other lies told by western government are:

    Infinite growth is possible on a finite planet.
    Debts and deficits do not matter.
    Money-printing is good.
    GDP growth improves welfare.
    Peak Oil will not occur for decades.
    Fracking is safe and sustainable.
    Population growth is sustainable.
    Tourism is a sustainable growth industry.
    The industrialised dairy industry is sustainable.
    Shopping and consumption are good.
    Corporatized sport is good.
    Greenhouse gas emissions are under control
    Pollution has little effect in the short term.
    Ocean acidification is of no consequence.
    Planetary meltdown will not occur for centuries.
    Technology will save us.
    Industrial civilisation has a future.
    We are headed for a ‘better, brighter future’.

    (None of the above statements is true, of course.)

    The corporate media assist in maintaining the façade of success and well-being, and the pretence of sustainability as everything collapses, via censorship and by keeping the general populace misinformed and distracted with celebrity gossip, internationalised sport, fashion and art etc., plus flag-waving. Flag-waving also features extensively in NPDC priorities.

    The purpose of ‘the system’ is to facilitate the raiding of the commons by opportunists and the transfer wealth into the hands of the greedy few, plus control. Administrative and legal systems are geared to ensuring that looting and polluting of the commons continue, and that wealth continues to accumulate in the hands of the greedy few at the expense of everyone else.

    NPDC is still in continuous breach of the Local Government Acts of 2002 and 2012. ‘Nobody’ cares. and there are no mechanisms for dealing with this dreadful state of affairs because the NZ government wants NPDC to be in breach of the wording of the statutes. Everything is Orwellian, unsustainable, destructive and self-destructive. Some rectification will come via collapse but too much damage has already been done to allow life to be sustained.

  • @Ulf
    TY, yes having another minute, another day, perhaps another season(s) is cause for joy. Bearing witness to the great unraveling, not so much.
    Interesting will the consequences be, on my choice or lack thereof. Enjoyed link equating blame with boomers. While enough to go around our feet, we didn’t dream up the means to destroy all life many times over, that was developed during the greatest generation, thank you Tom Brokaw, oh wait, that part was omitted.

    While conscious and in pain, I got no answer to my grunted question, “Was I getting a shot of TPA? Answer-How do you know about TPA? WTF, I told the heart chap, “I read a lot”he tells me, this is the new ‘standard of care, it’s faster acting than TPA, less chance of permanent damage” I’m thinking this will not cost a grand or two, nope I’m in for the whole enchilada. Also didn’t think he had time to tell me the stent will require drugs until and if my body accepts it. oops

    So yeah, the air doesn’t stink so much, our well still gives plenty of sweet water, I now have another ju-ju man working spells and casting potions to keep the reaper at bay for another day. So what? Now what?
    Given a week to rest, it’s summer-chop wood, grow food, no guarantee that I’ll be here to burn it, much less see another harvest. Don’t deny, I’m one lucky SOB.


  • On the Daily Poetry Page, it was noted that Robert (Bobby) Kennedy was killed on this date in 1968. He was about to become the Democrat’s candidate for president in the 1968 election. He was determined to end the war in Viet Nam. He was further determined to prevent any other war or armed conflict.

    If Bobby Kennedy had been able to carry out his convictions, would we be posting on this page today? Would we be saying “Good-bye ” to an earth we love, good-bye to all the hopes and dreams of our forefathers who fought & died so that people could live free?

    At the death of the second Kennedy, we did not rise up in revolution. We mourned, but also we went on about our business. War is a messy thing and people get hurt – even killed. Wasn’t fighting a war to end all wars somewhat of an oxymoron? Wasn’t that what we tried to do in 1918? That didn’t end so well, did it?

    So here we are today, our hopes blown away with a bitter wind. Our dreeams only the memories of dreamers and dreamers, others killed for trying to bring justice to a world more concerned with the flow of cash.

    If we blame Caroline, blame Guy, Michael, anyone who dared disturb the status quo, no matter how awful, are we not part of the great silent mob who sat on their hands and did nothing while evil triumphed over a world doomed to collapse into nothingness?

  • Robin Datta

    You wrote:

    “In the non-theistic traditions, the emphasis is on realisation, not on scripture or dogma. It is said in all of those traditions that the realised person has no need for them; the realised person’s guidance always supersedes all scripture and dogma.”

    In my view this is one big piece of the problem with Western Abrahamic spiritual schools, the reliance on the literary tradition – the book.

    My dreams confirm this on my own path.
    Your point about realisation to me is so appropriate. Dogmas are for Social and institutional power- the ability by materalistic pathways to manifest human needs, (now for profit too).
    The point about a realised being is there is every energetic capacity to realise any real human, or situational need, via any pathway possible.
    A realised being has the creative force at will. Not by magic, or only technology, but by understanding alone.
    Thanks for that brilliant summation of what the differences are between Theology traditions and Realisation traditions.

    You nailed it !

    Cheers mate ;)

  • There is no realisation possible for automatons, biological (meat-robots) or otherwise. Since one cannot experience the awareness that another may have, the only awareness that I have is my own. There is no proof that anyone else is anything other than a meat-robot. (Nor for that matter if anyone else does indeed have awareness, is there any proof to that one that I am anything other than a meat robot).

    Since “you” refers to some other, with no way to find out whether or not it is a meat-robot, any attribution of realisation to the referent in “YOURS” is entirely presumptive and deniable.

    And I think that is total bollocks and completely untrue !

  • kevin: I enjoyed the video of you in action. They won’t heed your warning most likely because their lucrative jobs depend on them NOT listening and continuing with business as usual. Good try though – you have cojones, they gotta give you that.

    Here’s what the anti-war movement is up against here:


    The top 10 private contractors with the United States government in fiscal year 2013 were:

    1. Lockheed Martin Corp.: $44.1 Billion in contracts
    2. Boeing: $21.2 Billion in contracts
    3. Raytheon: $14.1 Billion in contracts
    4. General Dynamics Corp.: $13.1 Billion in contracts
    5. Northrop Grumman Corp.: $10.0 Billion in contracts
    6. SAIC: $6.3 Billion in contracts
    7. Huntington Ingalls Industries: $6.2 Billion in contracts
    8. L-3 Communications: $5.8 Billion in contracts
    9. United Technologies: $5.7 Billion in contracts
    10. BAE Systems: $4.8 Billion in contracts

    Together, these ten corporations received $131.3 Billion in taxpayer funds in fiscal year 2013, 28.7% of all federal contract dollars received during the year.

    Every one of these top ten contractors made their money off of military contracts. This includes Huntington Ingalls Industries, which is a poorly-known new corporation formed in a spinoff from Northrop Grumman. Huntington Ingalls builds aircraft carriers and assault ships for the U.S. Navy. United Technologies is the parent company of Sikorsky Aircraft, which makes Black Hawk and other combat helicopters. L-3 Communications manufactures military surveillance system. SAIC designs the military’s information backbone. BAE describes itself as a “global provider,” selling military equipment to armies around the world.

    From January 1 to December 31 2013, these ten corporations paid for the services of no fewer than 112 different lobbying firms, deployed to Capitol Hill along with their own in-house corporate lobbyists. More striking than the sheer number of lobbying firms hired on by the top ten military contractors is the overlap in the firms hired by the contractors. [check this out]

    [the article concludes]

    They are tightly connected. They are massively funded. They work for war. While anti-war movements limp on beneath the radar of official notice, this is the network they must confront.

    Meanwhile (via Snowden) we see this from England:



    Snowden leaks that UK.gov suppressed

    Exclusive Above-top-secret details of Britain’s covert surveillance programme – including the location of a clandestine British base tapping undersea cables in the Middle East – have so far remained secret, despite being leaked by fugitive NSA sysadmin Edward Snowden. Government pressure has meant that some media organisations, despite being in possession of these facts, have declined to reveal them. Today, however, the Register publishes them in full.

    The secret British spy base is part of a programme codenamed “CIRCUIT” and also referred to as Overseas Processing Centre 1 (OPC-1). It is located at Seeb, on the northern coast of Oman, where it taps in to various undersea cables passing through the Strait of Hormuz into the Persian/Arabian Gulf. Seeb is one of a three site GCHQ network in Oman, at locations codenamed “TIMPANI”, “GUITAR” and “CLARINET”. TIMPANI, near the Strait of Hormuz, can monitor Iraqi communications. CLARINET, in the south of Oman, is strategically close to Yemen.

    British national telco BT, referred to within GCHQ and the American NSA under the ultra-classified codename “REMEDY”, and Vodafone Cable (which owns the former Cable & Wireless company, aka “GERONTIC”) are the two top earners of secret GCHQ payments running into tens of millions of pounds annually. [read the rest]

  • Various concerns with the world, but here in the USA it’s D-Day Day!

    D-Day! Back when men were men and everything we did was
    right and just and pure. Boy oh boy. If only we were at war now,
    we could show how proud we are to be Americans.

    What’s that? We are at war?

    Oh that’s right. Against the evil hordes of that group we hate unless they’re in a country with a leader we hate in which case we support them because that could never ever turn around and bite us in the ass.

    At any rate, in celebration of this historic day, I have gone to radio silence so I can imagine the interviews of the men who were there 70 years ago instead of actually experiencing them. It’s much better this way.

    I can sit back and bask in the glory of yesteryear as I imagine a world completely dominated by the US. What a wonder to behold.

    A sudden urge to hide under the blankets has overcome me. Can’t imagine why.

  • To Kevin Moore – I watched your video. My hat is off to you for your courage. I appreciate your willingness to fight.

  • I’ve posted the latest guest essay, courtesy of RE. It’s here.

  • @ Queenie,

    I suppose that one person can make a difference, depending on whether they are voted into power or removed from power. I tend to be less fixed on that idea over time. We see how vulnerable the one-man savior becomes. But if a great mass of people assert leadership, even if each did very little on an individual basis, might that not be a more dependable force?

    That requires great unity of goals. But how do we arrive at that unity?

    In activism, we usually think of unity among the oppressed as a way to better combat oppression. But I see a more passive means to unity. Unity imposed by the “oppressors” themselves, since their oppression is unified in its impact on the whole. It does the same thing everywhere. Its project is amazingly simple: dig up, bomb, blast, commodify, militarize, speed up, burn, acquire, steal, cut down, demolish, grind up, befoul, homogenize, control, dominate, surveil, mislead… Nothing complicated there. Please tell me where on Earth the TPTB are not doing one or more of these things. Does that not mean we have global unity imposed on us by our very rulers?

    So is our problem that we don’t recognize the source of our unity? If we refrain from being party to the narrative of dig up, bomb, blast, commodify, militarize, speed up, burn down, cut down, demolish, dominate, grind up, befoul, homogenize, control, surveil, mislead…then wouldn’t we become a powerful force of resistance relatively effortlessly? (Sure, many of us don’t have any choice, but most of us have some choice, even small, while preferring to act as guards to our own prisons.) We wouldn’t have to do much. When TPTB gave a party, we just wouldn’t attend. Of course, if we fail to take advantage of our opportunities some time soon, we will not be allowed to abstain from TPTB party, if we are even considered worth inviting.


    Pat keeps talking about euthanasia, but there are different ways to interpret euthanasia beside physical demise exclusively. They may well be misguided, but what’s to lose? Guy famously says, it’s over. The same applies there. My take on it is that it is SO over, human progress and enterprise. Lots of things to restore and replace, and nothing new to build or create. Retreating everywhere. Nature Bats Last, and is en route to whip us good. When the adversary advances you retreat.

    We have the choice of whether to think humans come first, or whether things come first. Can’t we put our minds in a state of suspension that concludes humans don’t exist, and only the things they manifest–roads, bridges, buildings, cars, power plants, weapons–are real? Then the discussion becomes less personal…

    @ Kevin

    Seeing you at that meeting reminded me of the man standing in front of the tank in Tianmen Square. So touching. But I suspect you would need to get much more precise as to why the black stationary mattered for it not to be used against you. :-)

  • Kevin

    We are at war. Against denial, and status quo, regarding climate change.
    No war is lost untill the last battle is fought. And in relation with climate change, the last battle has not bee fough yet.
    You have to continue, one person may make a difference.
    Just do not expect to see results. Keep on just because you believe in it. Changes in people´s mind will began to happen slowly, and what you do, helps.
    This war may take a long time.
    And probably we will not see the results of our efforts today.

  • @ kevin

    Excellent impressive lecture. I liked filling the trenches with children and old people.

    NATO leaders are currently acting out a deliberate charade in Europe, designed to reconstruct an Iron Curtain between Russia and the West.

    With astonishing unanimity, NATO leaders feign surprise at events they planned months in advance. Events that they deliberately triggered are being misrepresented as sudden, astonishing, unjustified “Russian aggression”. The United States and the European Union undertook an aggressive provocation in Ukraine that they knew would force Russia to react defensively, one way or another.

    They could not be sure exactly how Russian president Vladimir Putin would react when he saw that the United States was manipulating political conflict in Ukraine to install a pro-Western government intent on joining NATO. This was not a mere matter of a “sphere of influence” in Russia’s “near abroad”, but a matter of life and death to the Russian Navy, as well as a grave national security threat on Russia’s border.

    A trap was thereby set for Putin. He was damned if he did, and damned if he didn’t. He could underreact, and betray Russia’s basic national interests, allowing NATO to advance its hostile forces to an ideal attack position.

    Or he could overreact, by sending Russian forces to invade Ukraine. The West was ready for this, prepared to scream that Putin was “the new Hitler”, poised to overrun poor, helpless Europe, which could only be saved (again) by the generous Americans.