An Apology, a Response, and a Free Dystopian Science Fiction Novel from Geoffrey Chia; The Thrilla in Doomerzilla (Extinction or Bottleneck?), a Podcast

by Dr Geoffrey Chia, Cardiologist/Physician

1. Apology to Mr Friedrich Kling

I made a grave mistake in my NBL critique article for which I owe a public apology to Mr. Friedrich Kling. Mr Kling never posted any holocaust denialist articles, I got the name wrong, it was Gerald Spezio who was the culprit, who had been repeatedly banned by Dr McPherson for such behaviour. Once again, apologies to Mr Kling.

My sloppy and stupid mistake in naming the wrong person highlights once again the principle that irresponsible “free” speech, especially if harmful to and misrepresentative of another person or group of people, should be deleted or banned and if a mistake is made it should be corrected. No one should be exempt from such principles, especially myself. It also shows that Dr McPherson despite his busy schedule has endeavoured to enforce responsible free speech on his blog, having banned holocaust denialist posts when he identified them, which actually negates one of my previous criticisms. Mr Kling is not one of the whiny, anonymous, cowardly, killjoy orcs or WACKOs who I oppose.

 

2. Response of the WACKOs

I have been accused of using a harsh tone which is true, however that is not a patch on the abusive, vulgar and profane language used by the the prime WACKO himself in the past. Didn’t like my tone? Well then look to yourself as being the worst offender, all well documented. He responded first off the bat with hysterical laughter befitting the promoter of an insane death cult.  The rest banded together with mutual backslapping to agree with each other and achieve “majority opinion” and thus “discredit” my ideas. The obvious tired tactic they employ is to wilfully misinterpret and misrepresent what I have written, to set up a straw man argument which they then “demolish”, then congratulate each other on the consensus they have achieved. I have encountered exactly the same behaviour when dealing with global warming denialists. They were unable to counteract my arguments with any reasoned response. Dr McPherson himself stated: I disagree with essentially nothing in Chia’s essay except the harsh tone and inappropriate attacks on other people.

The fact is that my harsh tone was directed against people who were many, many times harsher in their tone to others in the past. They just did not like a taste of their own medicine. The WACKOs claim I launched an ad hominem attack against them, which merely demonstrated their misrepresentation or lack of understanding of the term. An ad hominem attack is a baseless, unsubstantiated denigration of another person’s character which is irrelevant to the main topic of discussion (e.g., accusing James Hansen of being a child molester “proves” that global warming is a hoax). Calling out a proven embezzler to prevent him from seizing your father’s retirement fund is not an ad hominem attack, it is an accurate evidence-based description, a factual exposé, required to prevent harm. My factual description of the WACKOs was solidly based on well substantiated abundant evidence of their previous behaviour which had been thoroughly documented on NBL ad nauseum. If the WACKOs found such a factual description of their previous behaviour to be insulting, then they have only themselves to blame. I put forward credible hypotheses as to the reasons for their perverse mindset based on the few snippets they had revealed of themselves. Perhaps a trained psychiatrist such as Dr Carolyn Baker may wish to evaluate those hypotheses. The WACKOs behaviour was entirely relevant to the main topic of discussion, NTHE, as explained below.

Science depends on reasoned criticism for progress. After initially listening to Dr McPherson’s arguments in 2012 I found them very convincing based on overwhelming evidence and was not able to think of any strategy by which humanity could escape NTHE. Some critics disagreed with him because they were “optimistic” that humanity would find a solution. That sort of criticism is vague and useless, being based on faith rather than reason. Reasoned criticism would require them to specify in detail a feasible strategy by which some humans could conceivably survive this Permian-type global wipeout we are facing. After ruminating for almost two years, I believe I have worked out such a strategy. Not guaranteed, not foolproof, but not impossible to implement. I emailed Dr McPherson asking if he could identify any factual or logical flaws in my essay and asked him for his reasoned criticisms of my arguments. His email response to me? “You are correct Dr Chia“.

The main point I want to make is that Dr McPherson is not the founder or promoter of an insane death cult. He will go in the direction that evidence, facts and reason take him. That is the mark of a true scientist. The WACKOs however are a different sort of creature who have flocked to NBL to promote their insane death cult ideology, to drown out reasoned discussion and to sabotage any survival initiatives, for reasons best known to themselves. It is essential to expose these poisonous and harmful hangers-on for what they are. If they want to kill themselves, by all means go ahead, but encouraging other people to commit suicide is simply not on. If they are personally not interested in any survival strategies, no one is forcing them to participate, but trying to scuttle the initiatives of others is simply not on.

As a physician, is it sufficient to merely treat diseases as they arise? All physicians will agree that prevention is better than cure. Initiatives to reduce smoking require we must also oppose the tobacco lobby. Healthy eating initiatives require that we advocate public health measures to minimise salt, sugars (especially high fructose corn syrup) and saturated fats in processed foods or at least ensure the foods are clearly labelled. This puts us in direct opposition with commercial vested interests. The granddaddy public health issue of all time, global warming, was essentially ignored by the medical community, an utter disgrace. The reasons for such inaction were varied, but one reason was that it required we oppose the most powerful vested interest of all: the fossil fuel lobby. It is now too late on that score, the horse has bolted. If only more medicos were willing to stand up against those who would cause harm, accepting that they would be making enemies by doing so, things could have been different. In my attempts to devise a feasible plan for humanity to avoid extinction, I have been reviled in this forum, a truly bizarre situation. Nevertheless I forge on and I oppose the WACKOs.

3. Free dystopian science fiction novel

The medical community also abrogated their duty to oppose illegitimate warfare, one of the few notable exceptions being Dr Helen Caldicott, one of my heroes and renowned opponent of nuclear madness. Attached via three pdf files is a dystopian science fiction novel I wrote 10 years ago in response to the invasion of Iraq which unfortunately remains all too relevant today. The ongoing atrocities and civil war are a direct legacy of the US invasion. Obviously some of the thoughts in the novel are out of date. I believed then that energy limits were likely to hit us before global warming catastrophe. I believed that solutions were still possible and the scenario of near extinction was a farce, not a genuine concern at the time. Since writing that novel and associated essays, I have abandoned hope of any high tech fixes to our predicament. The reality of our future is turning out to be worse than depicted in the novel, hence it may be better to call it a eutopian (not utopian) rather than dystopian novel. I used a pseudonym for ironic purposes but made no effort to hide who the real author was. If you enjoy it, pass it on. If not, don’t read it. Quite simple really.

Cover art

Front matter

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The Thrilla in Doomerzilla (Extinction or Bottleneck?), Podcast

Off the Microphones of Guy McPherson, RE & Monsta

Follow us on Twitter @doomstead666
Friend us on Facebook

Aired on the Doomstead Diner on June 26, 2014

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Discuss this Conversation at the Podcast Table inside the Diner

THE THRILLA IN DOOMERVILLA

 

              GUY McPHERSON                   RE

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tox5703QZ0s/T-7A3lngFKI/AAAAAAAAKAI/_4sCysPtsYY/s1600/7190462.jpeg RE-BM-Camp3

                 EXTINCTION                   BOTTLENECK

 

We have been doing Podcasts for a full year now, and one of the first guests we invited on to talk Collapse with was Guy McPherson of Nature Bats Last. The one-year anniversary of the Podcasts seemed like a good interval on which to catch up with Guy and further discuss the issues surrounding Collapse, in Guy’s case with emphasis on the Climate and Pollution issues we are currently facing down, which is where his focus lies.

Of all the bloggers who are looking at Collapse issues, Guy has perhaps the most radical view, that the current spin down will not just lead to Collapse of Industrial Civilization, but in fact lead to a Near Term Human Extinction by mid-century. This isn’t my view, I tend to think we will see a large population collapse and Bottleneck of Homo Sapiens by mid-century, but not Extinction on this timeline. Over the course of the last year on both of our blogs, Nature Bats Last for Guy and the Doomstead Diner for me, we have come into conflict on several occasions arguing the probabilities here. In this Podcast, we hash out some of these differences of opinion, while managing not to get tooooo ticked off at each other. LOL.

This is Part 1 of a 2 part conversation with Guy, in Part 2 Guy and my co-host on the Collapse Cafe Monsta further discuss the issues. I had to sign off on participating in that part of the discussion because the Cafe where I use their free WiFi closed unexpectedly early that day. We will air Part II in the next week or so hopefully.

Whether you are in the Uber Doom camp of Guy and believe that we will see the Extinction of Homo sapiens and just about all other life forms above the level of the Tardigrades or in the Full Doom Camp and think we are approaching a Population Bottleneck on the order of Toba, which knocked down Homo sapiens to just 10,000 Human Souls or 1000 Breeding Pairs left standing, you certainly will get an earful of DOOM in this Podcast from both Guy and me. If you are Doomer Lite and just think this is a blip in Generational Collapse of the Strauss & Howe 4th Turning variety, or if you are Cornucopian and think the Cold Fusion Cavalry is right around the corner here to Ride to the Rescue, you probably won’t agree with most of what is said, but still worth listening to IMHO.

Also, don’t miss the Anniversary Vidcast of the Collapse Cafe with Ugo Bardi of Resource Limits and Gail Tverberg of Our Finite World. We discuss NTHE issues in the second half of the Vidcast.

…and that’s all the DOOM, this time until next time, HERE on the Doomstead Diner.

🙂

RE

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McPherson was interviewed 23 June 2014 by SFPI radio

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Part two of McPherson’s 12 April 2014 presentation at the University of Rhode Island is embedded below. Part one is embedded at the Recent video tab.

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McPherson’s next book will be co-authored by Carolyn Baker. Extinction Dialogs: How to Live with Death in Mind is scheduled for release before 1 October 2014. It is described here.

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Find and join the Near-Term Human Extinction Support Group on Facebook here

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If you have registered, or you intend to register, please send an email message to guy.r.mcpherson@gmail.com. Include the online moniker you’d like to use in this space. I’ll approve your registration as quickly as possible. Thanks for your patience.

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Going Dark is available from the publisher here, from Amazon here, from Amazon on Kindle here, from Barnes & Noble on Nook here, and as a Google e-book here. Going Dark was reviewed by Carolyn Baker at Speaking Truth to Power and by more than three dozen readers at Amazon.

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Comments 153

  • More Chia ? Oh No !

    Imo, the Insane Death Cult is Industrial Civilisation, which is killing us all and to which I am opposed. As for the novel, I don’t have time to read fiction these days, especially out of date stuff by third rate writers whom I don’t find interesting.

  • Dr McPherson,
    I am among those you have convinced of NTE, but I also have a learning disorder and had a hard enough time learning the US measurement system.

    I get what you are saying but I (like most Americans) would understand what two degrees warmer means if you added Fahrenheit to your talks rather than just celicus… when you talk about runaway gas taking us to six centigrade..could you do the conversion for those of us who can’t make the conversion on our own…or even with google help?

    I work in miles (in my head) even in Canada…telling me to turn left in 1km will just get me lost. Same goes for the tempature, if its 40 I am cold, not hot. I know formal scientists speak metric, but you have a following of lay people now.

    Any future talk with Fahrenheit included posted on youtube would be even more informative.

    Thank you for speaking out!

  • “I believe I have worked out such a strategy. Not guaranteed, not foolproof, but not impossible to implement.” I would be interested to see the plan. Are you going to publish your thoughts?

  • Dr G. If you are going to call people out, name them (accurately). Making accusations about a few in front of a whole group then saying “and you know who you are” is cowardly IMO. Hinting is not enough. Grow a pair and get it over with.

  • I see that Guy is getting better with his delivery; and by better I mean more emotional!

    We humans live on emotions. Our rationality is simply a veneer covering over our cauldron of bubbly feelings.

    Neural pathways between the limbic system and frontal cortex provide support for these observations, especially when these pathways are ablated through trauma or infarction. Removal of limbic-frontal-cortex connections produce individuals whose absolute use of logic leads to a disastrous lifestyle based on their inability to make emotional assessment of others, especially trustworthiness.

    With Guy’s new-found emotional delivery, he is asking his audience to use their reasoning, combine it with emotion, and make a commitment.

  • All the comments by NBL posters are thoughtful and rational. Chia and Caroline baker are the narcissistic (promote wretched humanity at all cost down to the last ecosystem left) adolescents. Spend what is left of your shameful life relieving the suffering of non-humans who have so selflessly given you life and then and only then could you maintain a measure of dignity as you quietly walk into the forever night. By the way, I was born into a world (death cult) that I did not create.

  • I wish to raise the strongest possible objection to the remarks that RE makes in the Podcast, where he assigns a position to me which is a total travesty of my actual true position.

    As I have stated many times, RE brought his own strawman here, that this place was a depressing Death Cult, and despite very lengthy arguments refuting everything he said and demolishing his position, he then takes his strawman away and insists it remains intact.

    These words that RE utters that I ‘Hope for humanity to die faster so that other species might live..

    This is NOT my position. I resent having RE misrepresent my position in this outrageous manner.

    Of course, the man is not capable of understanding any subtle distinction, as was quite plain re the remarks regarding patriarchy.

    He does not understand what patriarchy is and why it has any bearing. Likewise, he does not understand that my position is not anthropocentric.

    RE is philosophically illiterate, hence he is simply unable to assimilate or comprehend pat’s nihilism, or my own position, and indeed, Guy’s position. That’s obvious when he makes his concluding remarks.

    He’s agreed that there is no way of surviving, but then he contradicts himself, blathering about how some groups are more likely to survive than others.

    That’s the problem. His own position is totally incoherent and impossible to maintain, but he has to maintain it. Somehow.

    Same goes for Chia. They both come up with absurd and preposterous fantasies, which they project into the future, as a means of resolving their inability to face their angst.

    And then they blame us ! Like children blaming their mother because they can’t go out because the weather is bad.

  • I was about to post something self-serving, arrogant and dull but this bit by Chia popped up first. Timing is everything.

  • Tony Weddle:

    Thank you so much for the link to Dave Cohen’s posts at DOTE in your comment on the preceding NBL post.

    Dr. Salmony (from comment at preceding post):

    “humankind is precipitating a planetary emergency on Earth”

    That was four decades ago. The emergency was over once we were past the edge of the cliff.

    “why absolute global human population numbers continue to grow”

    Because of Eating Fossil Fuels, as pointed out by Dale Allen Pfeiffer.

    Luke:
    what two degrees warmer means if you added Fahrenheit

    And there are plenty more of such sites. If you use a legitimate copy of 32 or 64 bit Windows (up to Windows 7, as far as I know) Microsoft Calculator Pro is a freeware download and has a converter in addition to a scientific calculator. Windows 8 probably also has something like it. IOS has a free converter in the App Store.

    And for those who prefer to do the sums in the head:
    °C = (°F-32)/1.8
    °F = (°C*1.8)+32

    These same formulas can be plugged in as functions into a spreadsheet to print out a temperature conversion chart. That’s what I did for myself when I was still working.

    How big a population does it take (to support a cement factory) to produce cement for a concrete structure? What does it take to install NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical) protection systems in concrete structures? They have to be airtight, watertight, and with adequate radiation shielding AND with a water source with purification AND purification for air intakes.

  • Spring & Fall: to a young child

    Margaret, are you grieving
    Over Goldengrove unleaving?
    Leaves, like the things of man, you
    With your fresh thoughts care for, can you?

    Ah! as the heart grows older
    It will come to such sights colder
    By and by, nor spare a sigh
    Though worlds of wanwood leafmeal lie;
    And yet you wíll weep and know why.

    Now no matter, child, the name:
    Sorrow’s springs are the same.

    Nor mouth had, no nor mind, expressed
    What héart héard of, ghóst guéssed:
    It is the blight man was born for,
    It is Margaret you mourn for.

    Gerard Manley Hopkins

  • Near Term Human Extinction (NTHE), or Near Term Near Human Extinction (NTNHE) with well over 95% of humans dying soon? For all practical purposes these amount to the same thing to me. Besides that, given the unpredictable, complex nature of the many reciprocally interacting, global collapse processes now well under way, it remains an unanswerable discrimination to make. NTHE or NTNHE? Of course I could have this wrong, but it seems clear to me that we simply do not know, cannot know, and will never know. None of us. Ever.

    Given this, will someone help me understand the often vicious horizontal hostility, the personal attacking and verbal violence related to this and other issues on this and related blogs? Naive as I remain, I do not get it (except in the deeper sense that humans exist as first and foremost highly emotional, fundamentally insane animals that think and behave rationally only rarely and with great effort). Do we presumably more rational thinkers, here, really fantasize that by calling each other idiots, morons, stupid, and so on while arguing about one or two unknown and unknowable probability percentage points we will in that way help each other construct new, useful knowledge and ways of thinking and behaving? “If I call them a moron, THEN they will see it my way! THEN they will surely understand how Right I am and how wrong, Wrong, WRONG they are!” Really? Or do we just love, so much, throwing childish temper tantrums when we get frustrated? Or do we just wish to demonstrate to each other and to the rest of the world that the technical, psychological term, “nuts”, really does fit us perfectly after all? Please, learned ladies and gentlemen, help me better understand this passionate horizontal hostility and verbal violence that so many of us seem to love so much among ourselves.

  • Geoffrey

    Besides the mistake about names, I guess your point about WACKOs is quite correct..
    And the way to address it you used is probably the only way. Using the same scheme of heavy loaded words with basically the intention to offend.
    Words are just that, is up to each one of us, to give them the weight.
    To offend is the easy way to avoid the discussion. Is the way to show that there are no arguments to offer in contrary, or to question.

    That leads me to question, why, in front of a position or proposal, (supposed to be) mature people, are unable to provide arguments if they see things in a different way?. From those who want to comment, most prefer to tackle the other, instead arguing, discussing or questioning the basis of the proposal.
    Is that a clear indication that today, most people are just cogs?
    Cogs are not supposed to think, but to operate only.
    Rarely we see a good level discussion in ANY blog or forum.
    And most of the time, Twitter kind comments, with less than 140 characters.

    Another sociologically fascinating point about comments on blogs and forums is that most people does not have their own ideas backed up with their own arguments. Most of the time, they use somebodyelse´s words, like if that would be enough, just picking cherries.
    It seems more logical and useful, to read or investigate about thoughts and ideas given by others, taking those which we agree with, making them our own, and then be able to defend them with our own arguments, solid enough. What we call to have conviction about something.
    It seems most people are for some reason unable to achieve conviction about some fairly complex (but not that much), but relevant issues. Specially ethics and moral. Unable to take sides.
    Worth noting that the case of Guy McPherson is exactly the opposite, he has to use the picking cherries practice, to backup his conviction, in response to this so extended practice of picking cherries as a way to provide value to a position. Picking cherries to convince cherry pickers.
    Facts or logical arguments are not enough. Our personal opinion is not enough, because is just mine, only one individual. Who am I to dare think different?
    It is like if facts or visions and perceptions could be validated using democracy. Majority wins.
    No wonder why we are about to fall off the cliff.

    Regards

  • Bud Nye: Please, learned ladies and gentlemen, help me better understand this passionate horizontal hostility and verbal violence that so many of us seem to love so much among ourselves.

    >>>

    Here ya go:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_formation

    As a reader of this little chunk of the internet, it’s abundantly clear that there is a tremendous amount of self-loathing in play here because, after all, we’re all part of the problem. It is in the very nature of us being born in this time and place, and being mass consumers of everything from plastics to pixels. Even if you’ve downsized (I live in a studio apartment), it costs a tremendous amount to provide you with internet, electricity, heat, hot water, indoor plumbing, transportation, etc etc etc.

    So now seeing that our corporate stupidity has brought us to the possibility of some sort of Eve of Destruction, it’s all too easy to do a Farley.

    What’s a Farley, you ask? Check out this short video.

    Now…doing a Farley is REALLY painful. It’s a lot easier (and more fun) to point the vector of rage and loathing anywhere and everywhere else.

    The big mistake you make, Bud, is in your presumption that the “thinkers” here are actually more rational than anyone else. It is manifestly and self-evidently not the case. More entertaining, perhaps – but hardly more rational.

    As Hopkins said, “It’s the blight man was born for; It is Margaret you mourn for”.

    Or, as Pogo puts it, “We have met the enemy, and he is us”.

    Or, as Gotama supposedly said, in his final moment before attaining enlightenment, “I have found you at last, builder of this house of suffering”.

    So what did he find? It wasn’t “empire”. And it wasn’t “the patriarchy”. Those are instantiations of what he found, not the actual object itself, if you get my computer lingo here.

    So what did he (supposedly) find, anyway? That thing we call human egotism, by whatever name you choose to give it. Just because you believe in Jesus, or the Buddha, or capitalism, or NTHE, it doesn’t eradicate that little sucker.

    It’s alive and well, causing chaos here, there and everywhere.

    Hail Eris, as the Discordians like to say.

    FNORD!

    Now, let the follies continue!

  • @ Ed

    Ah, but I do not “…presume that the “thinkers” here are actually more rational than anyone else.” 😉 (I definitely make many errors every day, but not that one this time.)

    Thanks for the thought-full response!

  • Bud writes: Ah, but I do not “…presume that the “thinkers” here are actually more rational than anyone else.”

    Perhaps we’re having a communications disconnect. I thought you were presuming exactly that based on what you said directly above:

    “Do we presumably more rational thinkers, here, really fantasize that by calling each other idiots, morons, stupid, and so on while arguing about one or two unknown and unknowable probability percentage points we will in that way help each other construct new, useful knowledge and ways of thinking and behaving?”.

    Perhaps your tongue was firmly in your cheek and I missed it, written communication being what it is.

  • Good to see the insults and errors matter finished with.

    I listened to the podcast and several important points arise.

    It seems to me that it matters not how many times simple scientific facts are presented most people, even those in the NBL camp, do not hear/read/understand/absorb/remember.

    Volcanoes:

    It is true that volcanoes are capable of blocking sunlight, and that massive eruptions have cooled the Earth in the past. What people looking for volcanoes to save us seem to forget [every time] is that volcanoes are also sources of carbon dioxide, and that, whereas volcanic dust falls from the atmosphere over a period of a few years, volcanic carbon dioxide hangs around for a long time. With carbon dioxide levels well above anything previously experienced by humans and rising at an extraordinary rate, the last thing we need is a surge in carbon dioxide from volcanoes.

    RE quoted the Mount Toba event as evidence that humans could get through a bottleneck, and that, by implication, humans could get through the coming bottleneck. What he seems to not appreciate is that the atmospheric carbon dioxide level was around 280ppm at the time (way below the approximately 450ppm level likely to be associated with NTE) and that the group of humans that did survive were living relatively close to the equator in a world that was heavily glaciated. In other words, those that survived the Mount Toba bottleneck experienced a set of conditions that bear no resemblance to current conditions, and even less those anticipated in the near future.

    One of the many ironies associated with aqueous chemistry is that oxygen is less soluble in warm water, whereas warmth promotes faster reactions. The effect in the natural world is that some of the most productive regions of the world are towards the poles, where water temperatures are lower and oxygen levels are higher. Apart from everything else that is going on in the oceans, warming them will reduce their productivity (except for toxic algal blooms, of course).

    Ocean acidification:

    Ocean acidification accompanies increases in atmospheric CO2. It is not caused by higher ocean temperatures and does not follow on from higher ocean temperatures (though higher temperatures do promote dissociation of water molecules into H and OH); in fact, from a theoretical perspective, the higher the temperature, the less likely oceans are to absorb CO2, and if ocean temperatures rise enough they can easily become net sources of CO2 (reducing the acidification ‘problem’ but exacerbating the warming ‘problem’.

    Negative feedback

    One of the most important negative feedbacks that hardly ever gets a mention is the very, very slow attack of silicate rocks by carbon dioxide, and the conversion of those rocks into sand and carbonate rocks, CO2 being more strongly acidic than SiO2.

    The point about this process is that it takes hundreds or thousands of years to have significant effect. Humanity is de-sequestering carbon that nature sequestered millions of years ago at a rate which far exceeds the capacity natural processes to re-sequester it.

    Current unravelling:

    NZ/US 0.877, the highest since the NZ dollar set free to float (up from the low of 0.39 15 years ago), what one commentator has described as ‘nose bleed time’. This, combined with the drop in international oil prices will ensure that the local delusions about ‘happy motoring forever’ continue a little longer.

  • Nothing like media for getting a message out. Thrilla in Doomervilla already at 250 Listens! Vidcast with Ugo and Gail now nearing quadruple digits!

    NBL and the Diner should get a nice Alexa Ranking bounce out of this! 😀

    Beats the hell out of talking to half empty lecture halls!

    …and that’s all the DOOM, this time until next time. 😉

    Your favorite Used Doom Salesman

    RE

  • Thank you to those who move the discussion back to the topics for which we (and the hundreds — ? — of non-posting readers) gather here. “Great minds discuss ideas, …”

    When a blog clogs up with cross-personal discussion, I have to skim faster, and may overshoot valuable content. Please, please, please don’t do this to me!

    Ideas that I value and want to consider, from Geoffrey and from RE, get lost in this controversy they help to stir up. Why, why, why? Guy knows that discussion will be optimal if you just put your ideas out there, and don’t worry beforehand about the critics. The material stands on its own, and is able to be reviewed by all.

    I have already had enough personality entanglements for one lifetime, and so that’s why I probably favor moving in with/next to indigenous cultures who don’t share our complicated background, whatever those are.

    Yes, there is normal human craziness and problems in every group, but then there is the added layer of the type of mass psychosis of “Western Civ” that we are all probably trying to tiptoe away from, in one way or another.

    That is why I try to draw out the best I can from each poster who takes the time and effort to write here — thank you! — and ignore the rest of the verbiage. Most people are giving their best, and don’t deserve defamation or even categorization.

    Near-time events could clip our opinionated blatherings faster than we now anticipate. I want to be ready to jump, in whatever direction at whatever time. And, I must avoid over-indulging in my own opinion-fests as inspired by the fine thinkers who post here.

    I’ve been in some excellent online groups before, and this group is trying to digest the most difficult topic EVER, and doing it better than I could have expected. It’s all new, first-run, and it’s all inching forward by trial and error, and, like those rare positive mutations, we are hopefully going to be “re-inventing” ourselves as necessary when events turn rapid and shocking.

    That was a lot, to say what I could have stopped at after the first paragraph. But you know what I mean, don’t you?

  • Dr. Chia,

    I put forward credible hypotheses as to the reasons for their perverse mindset based on the few snippets they had revealed of themselves. Perhaps a trained psychiatrist such as Dr Carolyn Baker may wish to evaluate those hypotheses.

    CAROLYN BAKER, Ph.D., was an adjunct professor of history and psychology for 11 years and a psychotherapist in private practice for 17 years. (She is not, and never has been, a licensed psychologist.)
    That is lifted directly from Ms. Baker’s website.

    My sloppy and stupid mistake in naming the wrong person highlights once again the principle that irresponsible “free” speech, especially if harmful to and misrepresentative of another person or group of people, should be deleted or banned and if a mistake is made it should be corrected. No one should be exempt from such principles, especially myself.

    I suppose it would have been less embarrassing in your case if Dr. McPherson had taken time from his busy schedule and caught the error where you painted Mr. Kling with Mr. Spezio’s brush. Nice of you to admit your mistake, but AFAIAC this episode and your eventually correct behavior doesn’t make a case for increasing Guy’s work load by putting on him the onus of double-checking every remark here that is potentially harmful or unrepresentative of a particular person or group. The kind of rhetoric I’ve encountered here for the past year and a half or so is just the type of speech/writing that The First Amendment was designed to protect. And if TFA doesn’t suit the tastes of some folks here, there is this really cool computer gear available called a scrolling mouse. I use it with many comments here, either when I know I’m not likely to appreciate/understand something that’s way outside my level of scientific capability or else when I’m familiar enough with a regular commenter that reading just *one more* of their screeds will put me dangerously close to the reading version of a LD50 level.

    ———————————————————
    Nick Lowe in the above reminds me of Gram Parsons…hence…

    Dr. Datta,

    If there’s anything to this reincarnation biz, do you have any idea where I go to file my preference for coming back as a tambourine ?
    I guess it would be considered a penalty or demotion, but it sure looks like some of them get the occasional night out on the town.

  • @ kevin moore

    Excellent points.

    RE quoted the Mount Toba event as evidence that humans could get through a bottleneck.. etc

    It seems very doubtful that there ever was a Toba human bottleneck.

    Someone posted this paper before (my apologies, I did not read it at the time or note the name, just bookmarked the link, so I can’t give credit, but thanks anyway) which seems to blow the theory away.

    http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/17/1/2.full#sec-15

    And there are plenty of other sources.

    http://johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews/archaeology/middle/petraglia_toba_india_continuity_2007.html

    Of course, that doesn’t exclude the possibility of one in the future, but it negates the impact of RE’s rhetorical device to zero, doesn’t it.

    We then end up with people’s whole life and personal psychology, according to the likes of Chia and RE, being balanced on this ludicrous notion of ‘hope’, and ‘hope’ being the equivalent of winning a lottery ticket on some weird gamble that Yellowstone might erupt and kill off most everyone, but NOT the little package of survivalists that RE and Chia have selected.

    I mean, this is just bizarre. It’s certainly got nothing to do with ‘rationality’ or ‘science’, which these two insist that they endorse and cling to.

    We know from RE’s time ranting here, that at root, he’s engaged with some unresolved childhood issue with his father, who refused to continue a chess battle with him, and QUIT, and this haunts him still.

    I suspect Chia is similarly encumbered, as indicated by his expressions of rage and hostility toward the mass of ghastly WACKOs he perceives, which must make his existence a living nightmare.

    There was also Monsta’s point, that somehow Guy is being sort of ‘unkind’ by taking ‘hope’ away from people who need some illusion to keep them going…

    That was quite amazing really, when you consider the sort of scorn and derision that gets heaped upon ‘the Christian Believers’ who don’t accept the atheism of the likes of Hitchins and Dawkins.

    Nobody has any mercy on them, do they. Their story gets ripped up and shredded and they are abused for complaining and told they better get used to living in a meaningless Universe, where only entropy rules, like it or lump it.

    Chia is very keen on sticking the boot into those folk. But when it comes to HIM, it’s suddenly all too tough, he doesn’t want to face the harsh reality, he wants a let out clause, where a bunch of EXCEPTIONAL Super-Chias gather into a huddle and make it through the storm…

    Extinction is, well, just not acceptable. Something has to be done. The human spirit must prevail. Blahblahblah.

    I can see Geoffrey commanding the naked men and women applicants to run six times around the yard so he can assess their fitness, as to whether or not they’ll be allowed into his gated bunker, just as the Nazis did, when they assessed whether their slave labour should go to factories or death camps.

    Of course, people like myself, or Stephen Hawking, with a disability, will be disqualified, as unfit. But that’s fine. Of all the fates that I could contemplate, nothing I can imagine would be worse, really, than having to be confined in a restricted community with Chia or RE or anyone like them. I mean that with absolute sincerity.

    Regarding the negative feedbacks. As I understand it, the generally accepted consensus view, if I’m not mistaken, is that CO2 levels eventually begin to fall after a typical extreme warming and mass extinction event, due to photosynthesis.

    So, if the planet does remain within the viable zone, and does not experience extreme runaway greenhouse effect, eventually plants will do the job. But this takes hundreds of thousands, millions, of years, so is completely irrelevant to our situation, really.

  • Vice debrief on show (couldn’t find show itself on youtube) about ongoing genetic defects from Soviete nuclear bomb testing on nearby Kazakhstan (as opposed to wolves in Chernobyl). I just thought I’d post it here as it would get the widest distribution. This is a running conversation on NBL – what are the impacts of radiation on humans. Check out the actual show on HBO – the affects are quite grim indeed.

  • ulvfugl,

    I mean, this is just bizarre. It’s certainly got nothing to do with ‘rationality’ or ‘science’, which these two insist that they endorse and cling to.

    That clicked with me, and since I love incomplete proportional expressions about the way nature is rumored to adore vacua…

    Hopesters are an amalgam of religion and engineering (Imagineering, maybe?) Faith & How-To Tech

    Doomsters are more the logic and scence. Analysis, Syllogisms & Knowledge

    We’re all at the little airport near the Beach of Doom…

    Hopesters are in the waiting area nervously consulting arrival schedules or up at the customer disservice counter trying to get someone to reassure them that there will only be a slight delay and a small impact on their personal/family travel plans.

    Doomsters are in the bar/cantina…some sulking, others blaming a variety of culprits, many self-medicating, but most will still dance with their fellows on the odd occasion when the hamster powering the juke box gets the wheel RPM’s up to 2600. What else is there after your receiver picks up the distant but clear mayday call of the inbound plane ?

    “Boss, Boss, de plane, de plane”.
    Remember what show that was from ?

    The Little Plane came for Laurie…The Big One ain’t coming for us.

  • I read through the paper cited by UF. By no means does this paper even address the Toba Bottleneck, and beyond that the authors cite the fact it is tough to know exactly what occurred so long ago. They do acknowledge Bottlenecks have occurred before though.

    What is pretty undeniable is that Toba DID blow around 75K years ago, and most of the survivors of that cataclysm came out of Central Africa.

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CDe4ApbWe_Q/URgdESis8LI/AAAAAAAABpg/hiLRYfdnGl8/s1600/Migration3.jpg

    The conclusion from the paper UF cited:

    “Conclusions

    While it is clear that paleontological, archaeological, and genetic approaches are potentially rich sources of hypotheses about human demographic history, each alone has a considerable disadvantage when applied as a test of paleodemographic questions. The weaknesses of fossil and archeological approaches lie in their incompleteness and poor sampling. While paleoanthropologists have learned much about human phylogeny and adaptation, it has been a challenge to obtain any but the roughest estimates of past population size from site distributions, distributions of technologies or traits, or evidence of morphological evolution. Geographically clustered sampling and taphonomy bias the samples, and their sizes are very small. The weakness of genetic data is inaccuracy, especially in the sense of low levels of resolution, as there are many factors other than population size that affect genetic diversity and do so in ways that are largely not quantifiable. Perhaps the most significant of these is selection, and its main effect is to remove the element of predictability from these relationships because the details of past selection are unknown, and perhaps unknowable.

    All the currently available genetic, paleontological, and archaeological data are consistent with a bottleneck in our lineage more or less at about 2 MYA. At the moment, genetic data cannot disprove a simple model of exponential population growth following such a bottleneck and extending through the Pleistocene. Archaeological and paleontological data indicate that this model is too oversimplified to be an accurate reflection of detailed population history, and therefore we conclude that genetic data lack the resolution to validly reflect many details of Pleistocene human population change.

    However, there is one detail these data are sufficient to address. Both genetic and anthropological data are incompatible with the hypothesis of a recent population size bottleneck. Such an event would be expected to leave a significant mark across numerous genetic loci and observable anatomical traits. Genetic and anatomical traits, after all, are the raw data the hypothesized bottleneck is meant to explain. But while some subsets of data are compatible with a recent population size bottleneck, there is no consistently expressed effect that can be found across the range where it should appear, and this absence disproves the hypothesis. There are better ways to explain the data.

    Although significant population size fluctuations and contractions occurred, none has left a singular mark on our genetic heritage. Instead, while isolation by distance across the network of population interactions allowed differences to persist, and with selection, local adaptations were able to develop, evolution through selection, along with gene flow, has promoted the spread of morphological and behavioral changes across the human range. It is this pattern of shared ancestry that has left its signature in the variation that we observe today. We know this from many sources of data and argue that no single source can suffice. If the evidence of a population size bottleneck early in the evolution of our lineage is accepted, most genetic data by themselves either lack the resolution to address subsequent changes in the human population or do not meet the assumptions required to do so validly. “

    All they say here is they lack resolution to make a definitive conclusion, and they are not even talking about Toba.

    RE

  • Humanity Surprised It Still Hasn’t Figured Out Better Alternative To Letting Power-Hungry Assholes Decide Everything

    Hey, there’s still Hope

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/humanity-surprised-it-still-hasnt-figured-out-bett,36361/

    “…Noting that it has had thousands of years to develop a more agreeable option, humankind expressed bewilderment this week that it has yet to devise a better alternative to governing itself than always letting power-hungry assholes run everything, sources worldwide reported.

    Individuals in every country on earth voiced their frustration that, in spite of generations of mistreatment, neglect, and abuse they have suffered at the hands of those in positions of authority, they continue to allow control over the world’s governments, businesses, and virtually every other type of organization and social group to fall to the most megalomaniacal pricks among them…..”

  • Ulvfugl, there is no way to understand you. From a logical standpoint certainly.

    All about mankind going extinct is good for you. You defend Pat for example, a total and objective nonsense. In that case you bend logic to defend his position (with no arguments), just because he is from “your side”.
    Any different proposal is not even acceptable, but most is simply bad.
    Sometimes you comment a line saying that you have no time to read or comment somebodyelse´s position, clearly differing from your view. Or posting a tweeter type comment.
    Why you have to say so? Don´t comment, and/or don´t read.
    Constant anger, nobody is up to your level, we are all illiterate, or naive, or clueless.
    For some reason, you see yourself above the rest here. You are different, because you appreciate nature, and prefer to be alone?. The others are just consumers, or commons.
    Is that because, according to your view, NBL is only for total doomers? A fenced place, where only full doomers are allowed?
    How dare RE and Chia to even think that survival may, just may be possible, for just a tiny quantity of people?.
    Is that the problem?

    I have tried to understand where you are going with your posts. It seems all you want to do is to fire torpedoes to the Titanic before it encounters the iceberg.
    To make sure that there are no survivors.
    There must be no possible way out.
    What is so bad with RE and Chia?
    Let´s destroy any attempt to even think that the salvation of some, may be possible.
    There is no way to demonstrate that RE or Chia are wrong. But even not existing any way to counterpart, anyway, torpedoes.
    The possible or not possible salvation of some is pure philosophy. No way to prove.

    Man, you are a whole case. An old man, that sometimes shows himself as still immature. But quite literate. Strange combination.

    Is your way of writing a way to become somebody that you never were able to become in your real life? The keyboard gives you (to all of us) a power that in real life may not exist.
    Or maybe you fought many battles before, and lost all of them, and because so, all other battles to be fight by others must be lost?
    Are you creating a character that exists only on Internet?. Certainly Ulvgful does exist only on Internet, but then, who is the man behind that “tag”?.

    I honestly do not try to offend you, the same questions I make about you, can be made about me.
    I do not need to be other, as I can be just what I am.
    You can google about me, and will find information.
    I have fought some battles that lost, but that is part of the rules. If I can help others I will do so. Even being not in agreement.
    I do not agree with RE but try to criticize his position with reasonably solid arguments. Nothing about Toba is really solid, for example, then, no comments.
    I do not try to discredit Guy McPherson, just because he thinks that we surely are going extinct. I differ from his position.
    The same about you.
    About Pat I gave a reasonable analysis, based on the evidence available. And you defending him, but saying nothing about why you think so. Just another torpedo?.
    I disagree with the view of Carolyn Baker, but later concluded that in some way we both were doing something trying to help others. Just different views, different ways. So no reason to criticize (or demolish) her position, in a nonsense attitude.

    One curious thing I have discovered in people older than me, in the 70´s or 80´s, that they rarely admit that they made mistakes along their lives. They were perfect. Something clearly not real, As myself , in the 50´s, already have made many mistakes along my life. Are you perfect too?

    Is there any way to know about the origin of your anger about those that believe (or maybe have something that is more than simple hope) that there are some remote possibilities of survival?
    And, who is Ulvgful?
    Can we, the commons, have access to that information?

    Regards

  • where I go to file my preference for coming back as a tambourine ?

    Consciousness is presumed manifest through sentients. Presumed, since only the aware one experiences that one’s awareness, and the awareness of others is not an experience, but only a presumption: no one knows through direct experience whether anyone else has awareness or is a marionette, a meat-robot.

    Tradition has it that the last thing one thinks of at the moment of death most closely approximates the next embodiment. So one should stay focused throughout one’s life on whatever is that important to oneself. A musical instrument may be associated with embodiment as a musician specialising in that instrument. A more direct choice would be to focus on a tamarin, or if one prefers embodiment as a cook, on a tamarind.

  • The more the bucket of excrement is stirred, the more it will stink. A wise course is to step around it, and to never stir it.

  • Kevin will enjoy the bitter irony…

    Maximising the production of crude oil will, if the bill is passed, become a legal requirement.

    So the government, which has a statutory duty under the Climate Change Act 2008 to minimise the UK’s greenhouse gas emissions, will have a statutory duty, under the Infrastructure Act 2015, to maximise them.

    The same person, the secretary of state for energy and climate change (currently Ed Davey), will be charged with implementing both policies. Without his head exploding.

    http://www.monbiot.com/2014/06/26/a-legal-duty-to-maximise-greenhouse-gases/

    @ Robin Datta

    ..and the awareness of others is not an experience, but only a presumption..

    Refuted and disproved by direct empirical experience via the siddhis, as described by numerous authoritative figures.

    @ RE

    Nobody contests that Toba HAPPENED or that people migrated out of Africa, what is relevant is that a bottleneck cannot be shown by the genetic data, therefore your talking point is DEAD.

    I’m sure you and your buddies take great delight in thinking that you can ruffle my feathers by misrepresenting me, and I have no power to stop you, but you know damn well that what you said is a lie. You mentioned my name and ascribed to me a position which I do not hold.

    I have explained my position to you at great length here, repeatedly.
    Either you are too stupid to understand what you are told, or deliberately and consciously venal.

    @ Godofredo

    See my comment on the Forum

  • Geoffrey, nice post and apology. There is only one small point I’d pick up on, regarding saturated fat being bad for us, but I guess it wasn’t an essential part of your essay.

    Robin, no problem, I hoped you enjoyed the posts. Cohen has lots of great essays there, though he’s largely inactive now.

    Bud, a 95% “extinction” is nothing like 100% extinction (which is extinction). With 95%, it would mean a lot of suffering but that would still leave 350 million people, which is not insignificant. A 99% extinction would leave 70 million people.

  • What I see here, after listening to the podcast, is what Bud pointed out; a bias that everyone has based on their past experience. RE grew up in The City and Guy grew up in a rural area. It shows.

  • I don’t need to misrepresent you UF,anybody can drop in here and read how you represent yourself. You Napalm just about everybody, you are the Enforcer of Group Think here in the NBL Commentariat. If anything, I was kind. I didn’t say you are a misanthropic jackass who whines non-stop about the state of the world in between your attacks on the other posters.

    I CAN have a fairly reasonable conversation with Guy, I CANNOT have one with you. The difference between you and Guy is that he speaks to topic, whereas you persist always in attacking the individual.

    Even though Guy and myself differ in our interpretation of many things, from extinction to bottleneck to patriarchy and beyond, we can talk about them and further elucidate the problem, and not devolve into name calling and incendiary rhetoric. You are incapable of this. You start pitching Napalm the minute ANYBODY deviates from the Party Line here of NTHE.

    Insofar as the paper you dropped on is concerned, it does NOT establish that there was not a genetic bottleneck after Toba, by any means. Quite obviously, with that radical a climate change that fast, a LOT of people who were alive before the event were dead after it. That by definition is a genetic bottleneck. Whether it really dropped down as far as 1000 breeding pairs or not is open to question, a question that can never be answered categorically. However, it is also pretty clear that modern humans mainly emigrated out of Central Africa, the genetic markers are there to show that quite conclusively. Maybe others survived elsewhere, who knows? The POINT is that some people did survive, and over time this small group of people managed to overrun the earth with 7B Human Souls.

    For the most part these days when I do drop in the commentariat here I simply ignore your posting. You are a jackass, you are miserable and you seek to make everyone as miserable as you are. Your work speaks for itself, I do not have to misrepresent you.

    Res Ipsa Loquitor

    RE

    Note: Thrilla in Doomervilla now at 356 Listens after just 24 hours! #1 With a BULLET in the Doomosphere!

  • Humanity Surprised It Still Hasn’t Figured Out Better Alternative To Letting Power-Hungry Assholes Decide Everything

    Hey, there’s still Hopium!!!

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/humanity-surprised-it-still-hasnt-figured-out-bett,36361/

    “…Noting that it has had thousands of years to develop a more agreeable option, humankind expressed bewilderment this week that it has yet to devise a better alternative to governing itself than always letting power-hungry assholes run everything, sources worldwide reported.

    Individuals in every country on earth voiced their frustration that, in spite of generations of mistreatment, neglect, and abuse they have suffered at the hands of those in positions of authority, they continue to allow control over the world’s governments, businesses, and virtually every other type of organization and social group to fall to the most megalomaniacal pricks among them…..”

  • Some more scribbles:
    Temperatures over Greenland Fast Approaching 400,000 Year High, Risk 15-19 Feet of Additional Sea Level Rise

    It’s getting hot over Greenland. Not the kind of hot we think of as each summer rolls along. But the kind of hot that melts massive two-mile-high slabs of ice. How hot? Within a decade or two, Greenland temps could reach their highest levels in at least 400,000 years. And that’s a problem. A big fracking problem.

  • “always letting power-hungry assholes run everything”

    This translates as the history of Patriarchy

    “…Given the prevalence throughout history of compassionless, two-faced [patriarchal] leaders whose lust for control and inflated self-importance have led to disastrous results for society at large, many individuals questioned if, going forward, they should instead try giving power to someone other than a greedy, self-serving bastard…”

    Allow a few humans to survive a ‘bottleneck and they will produce the very same patriarchal Clusterfuck each and every time until the Sun burns out.

    “Maybe we should try letting a kind, responsible person run things for a change,” Cairo resident Nathifa Bakhoum told reporters. “I, for one, don’t want to be told what to do by another narcissist who’s drunk on power and who has absolutely no regard for my well-being. It’s just a thought, but perhaps we could go with a good, decent human next time, or at least someone who’s not a completely egotistical pile of dogshit. That seems like a good thing to try at least once, right? Could we even do that? It’s probably worth a shot.”

    Sounds like Mary Poppins tag teaming with Tinkerbell for World Harmony!

    “…When pressed for further comment, however, every member of Humanity agreed that the current system, though deeply flawed, remains far better than one in which they actually have to make decisions for themselves………”

    Ah, the Clever ape drops the Wisdom ball in the dirt yet again….

  • Wacko, okay, I’ve been called worse. Now as for Death Cult, when was the signup day? I missed it. Can I still join?

  • @ Ed,

    Yep. My cheek still hurts from the intense tongue poking.

    @ RE

    I consider your clear insistence in the podcast that “the things that happen make people feel as they do”, both dramatically wrong and extremely unhelpful. (Two exact quotes: “…the message makes people despair…” and “…it’s very depressing…”.) I wonder: Why do you wish to jump into that kind of powerless, VICTIM position and encourage others to do so as well? Even though a small element of truth exists in that idea, for example with PTSD, it seems obvious to me that far, FAR more often than not, the things we tell ourselves ABOUT the things that happen make us feel as we do, not the things that happen themselves. Meanwhile, much psychological and medical research demonstrates that this principle even holds true for physical pain. So, even with PTSD and physical pain, the things we tell ourselves about what happened can greatly increase or decrease the intensity of the pain we experience and how long we experience it. So, again, I wonder: Why do you wish to cling to a passive, victim position, concerning the near certainty of NTHE, and encourage others also to assume that victim position?

  • @ Tony Weddle

    I consider NTHE much more likely than Near Term Near Human Extinction (NTNHE), but under the unfolding horrific Great Dying circumstances, and given that no one can know for certain about NTHE, it seems for all practical purposes, to me, mostly a waste of time to get overwrought arguing about it (and bashing GM for pointing people to the very high probability of NTHE). It remains only an educated “best guess” about an unpredictable, irreversible, chaotic, complex biosphere. For me, for all practical purposes a near certain minimum 95% human die-off–most likely including me, everyone I know, and my entire family–pretty much amounts to the same thing as human extinction. Besides that, I consider a living planet THE Platinum standard of moral and practical value, not human survival, so, again, I have a hard time generating much concern about the finer points of NTHE/NTNHE discrimination that so many people have gotten themselves so strongly agitated about.

  • Again, I am NOT encouraging people to commit suicide. I just think people should know about these organizations – and my sign-off is for the one-time visitors who may see it.

    Just sittin’ on this runaway train, staring out the window, with a cat on my lap.

    The Voluntary Extinction Movement
    Thou shalt not procreate.

    The Church of Euthanasia
    Save the planet, kill yourself.

  • @ Henry:

    Love your posts.

    @ Everyone:

    I also love it when people say they ignore someone yet continuously respond to their posts!

    I became “aware” of the emptiness of my existence early in my professional career, but it lacked clarity – “nothing like having an itch you can never scratch,” and I struggled mightily for 15 or so years to numb the pain by leading the life of a super-consumer. Then, I found NBL, and my awareness gained clarity – and now I know exactly what ails me – and I know there is no cure, except death. In shame, I have retreated as much as I can.

    Civilization killed us. Plant no crops, build no cities. Live like a wild animal, kill nothing, eat only that which falls from the trees, sleep on the ground, bathe in the river.

    Just sittin’ on this runaway train, staring out the window, with a cat on my lap.

    The Voluntary Extinction Movement
    Thou shalt not procreate.

    The Church of Euthanasia
    Save the planet, kill yourself.

  • Pat: Civilization killed us. Plant no crops, build no cities. Live like a wild animal, kill nothing, eat only that which falls from the trees, sleep on the ground, bathe in the river.

    OK. I’m with you so far.

    Pat: Just sittin’ on this runaway train, staring out the window, with a cat on my lap.

    Actually, in that moment you were typing something into your little magic toy and sending it up to the intertubes. How fun is that!

    Am I really the only one here who sees how perversely funny this is?

    “Life is a comedy to those who think, a tragedy to those who feel.” – Jean Racine.

  • @mt

    Death Cult Open Enrollment period starts tomorrow.

    Join online with the temporary password in your mailbox.
    (If you don’t see the email, check your spam folder.)

    If power is down, join at your local Aztec Temple.

    You will experience full post-mortem benefits.
    (well not exactly *experience*)

    There will be a substantial co-pay for Hopium detox.
    Be prepared to surrender any/all illusions great and small.

    Remember…the first rule of Death Cult is never…you know.
    —————————————-

    @pat

    Live like a wild animal, kill nothing, eat only that which falls from the trees, sleep on the ground, bathe in the river.

    I’m with ya on the whole no babies or crops or cities thing.
    Not sure about the ‘kill nothing’ part of your program, though.
    Shrinking habitat will attenuate the killing if not the death,
    but we’ll want a reliable way of handling our sociopaths.
    You know how easily Dr. Lecter escaped from confinement.
    Banishment seems so ‘civilized’…maybe not old-school enough.
    I’m undecided on the proposition of eating the sociopaths.
    We need to study the nature/nurture thing carefully before
    making public policy on such a potentially dangerous activity.
    (In the upcoming transitional phase, though, if you happen across
    the smoked corpse of one of those Koch dudes, I’d go for a few
    slices on a hoagie roll with lettuce & Russian dressing…you
    know, the sandwich the delis call “Putin on the Ritz”.)

    ——————————————–

    @Dr. Datta,

    …the awareness of others is not an experience, but only a presumption: no one knows through direct experience whether anyone else has awareness or is a marionette, a meat-robot.

    My wife returned from the library with a book titled Kama Sutra: The Turing Test Edition. If we come to any new conjectures or conclusions after working our way through it, I’ll post summary reports here.

    A musical instrument may be associated with embodiment as a musician specialising in that instrument.

    So, instead of coming back as just Emmylou’s tambourine, I could…
    Thanks, I’m upgrading my Ethical Living software right away.

    So the story ends we’re told
    Pancho needs your prayers it’s true
    But save a few for Lefty too
    He only did what he had to do
    And now he’s growin’ old
    —————————————-

    @Ed
    All hail Discordia !
    Remember to close the hatch on your Golden Submarine before diving.

  • Shakhova: the current state of her understanding of methane release, interview with Nick Breeze

    (thanks to Robin for link to robertscribbler, and to the commenters there for the link)

    Almost the entire spectrum of odds of NTHE vs NTNHE is contained in the results, as yet incomplete, of Natalia Shakhova’s (and the very few others studying similarly) research in the Arctic and in Siberia.

    The rest of us just attempt to draw conclusions from what is reported to us.

    Yes, it’s complicated, and the field is indeterminate, but if even a small percentage of her estimates is true, then carbon-equivalent methane goes off the scale, and human habitat is obliterated by temperature overkill.

    The larger cosmic off-Earth picture is that the methane was buried hundreds of millions of years back, and only awaited release by events of geologic magnitude, now provided by one very unwise species bombing, digging, and burning its way through a planetary heritage.

    The odds of this release, and the estimated magnitude of its amount emitted, then leaves only the question of its effect on global climate, and the length of time that various pockets of h. callidus can hold out.

    This is the very definition of “tipping point”, where it becomes more than 50% likely that humans cannot reverse the trend even by immediately stopping their own “contribution” to climate disruption. (My own imprecise estimate still clusters around 70%, thanks for asking, jacked up to 95% by the near-certainty of “civilization”‘s inaction.) It just passes out of our hands, even if we become willing to stop IndCiv on a dime today. Sufficient carbon equivalent will be provided, gratis, by the sub-sea and sub-tundra stores of methane.

    With the 40-year lag in climate effects, that horse is not only long gone but has retired and is sipping mai-tais on a beach in Coral Gables.

    Nature, or more properly, a previous extinction event, has provided the fuel that we only needed to stumble upon, like some long-forgotten minefield from a previous war discovered too late under that beautiful new farm you just bought. (“The mines come with the farm?”)

    Out of all the feedback loops, I still see Methane as the true Extinction Engine — most of the others but feed into aggravating its release by raising those temps under which it is released. The others take out swaths of human habitat, but alone do not blanket the whole planet with a lethal temperature rise.

    So, don’t argue with Guy — argue with the amounts and rates of release that Shakhova is attempting to verify by actual ORIGINAL RESEARCH. (Imagine that! You have to marvel at a species that produce both the Scientific Method and Denial as major constituencies.)

    The various outcomes over which you might contend fan out in a broad range of possibilities from those scientific measurements, and the projections therefrom. Unless you go there yourself, and duplicate that research to a different result, you are going to have to use the facts and measurements which are available, With a little bit of ballpark math, you can see that most of the range of likely outcomes will be an Extinction Level Event. (You can HOPE that 2 x 2 will equal 3, just this once, please? aw, c’mon, just for me? but once again, NBL — Not Bloody Likely, is it?)

    Yes, some lucky someone DOES win each lottery drawing. But it ain’t you, ain’t gonna be you, or anyone you know. (But, but, but I knew a guy who won $10,000 once — does that count?)

    But, yes, you are still entitled to enjoy (wallowing in) your own opinion … everyone’s got one.

  • @ RE

    I don’t need to misrepresent you UF

    No, you don’t NEED to, you do it because you are a liar, and you want to score a point against me to boost your squalid inflated ego.

    …anybody can drop in here and read how you represent yourself.

    Yes, and those with a brain who read what I say here will recognise that you are a liar who deliberately misrepresented my position.

    I CAN have a fairly reasonable conversation with Guy, I CANNOT have one with you. The difference between you and Guy is that he speaks to topic, whereas you persist always in attacking the individual.

    Oh, what a fucking wunderkind you are ! The difference between me and Guy is that I’m me and he’s him. Why the hell would you even compare us ? I have my own strong views and I speak for myself.

    Guy is very rarely here, and when he is, what happens ? He blocks your comments and you behave like a spoiled petulant brat. But I expect you were drunk again, which probably explains most of your behaviour most of the time.

    Like your disgusting, crass, insensitive suggestion that Guy was responsible for Mike Ruppert’s suicide. You want to claim that THAT was not an attack, and as nasty, dirty, vicious, and mean-spirited as it gets ?

    Sort of sums you up in my mind, that does. That’s the sort of man YOU are, RE. It comes across in your callous asides re ‘the big shitties’ where everyone is going to die, all of which I find much more offensive than pat’s bleak austere nihilist resignation to fate.

    The Money Valve II

    And yet Guy let’s you back on to this blog where you continue to abuse him and the other commentators. Because he believes in free speech. Even from people who use the space to spread lies about the site. Like you. Not strong on discerning and telling the truth are you, RE.

    Insofar as the paper you dropped on is concerned, it does NOT establish that there was not a genetic bottleneck after Toba, by any means. Quite obviously, with that radical a climate change that fast, a LOT of people who were alive before the event were dead after it. That by definition is a genetic bottleneck. Whether it really dropped down as far as 1000 breeding pairs or not is open to question, a question that can never be answered categorically. However, it is also pretty clear that modern humans mainly emigrated out of Central Africa, the genetic markers are there to show that quite conclusively. Maybe others survived elsewhere, who knows? The POINT is that some people did survive, and over time this small group of people managed to overrun the earth with 7B Human Souls.

    Well that’s a fair indication of your ability to assess a scientific paper, isn’t it, RE. Deplorable. Fail.

    You are a jackass, you are miserable and you seek to make everyone as miserable as you are. Your work speaks for itself, I do not have to misrepresent you.

    My work ? I’m here, on this mountain, being me, and so in a rather better position to know how I am, than you are, thousands of miles away, and I can honestly state that I’m very happy.

    I’m not responsible for anyone else or how they feel. I have no control over other people’s feelings. People are responsible for their own lives and their own feelings. The idea that I seek to make people miserable is YOUR idea, and it’s absurd and slanderous, just a cheap smear.

    There is nothing I could possibly say that could be any worse than comes across the news EVERY FUCKING DAY. That’s not ME creating that stuff, is it, you fool, that’s what’s happening. We all have to deal with it. We all have to deal with the future prospects. I do my very best to state the truth as I see it as honestly as I can. That’s all.

    You claim to be some sort of comedian, but I’ve never found you comical or amusing. You came here and launched an attack upon everyone, accusing us ALL of being QUITTERS belonging to a Death Cult and proclaiming you were going to stay here for as long as it took to convert us all to your way of seeing things. Now you accuse me of attacking people !

    I listened very closely to what you had to say. I think it’s a load of self-centred, self-serving patriarchal anthropocentric techno-utopian rubbish from an immature individual who projects unrealistic fantasies into the future, along with a scam to raise money.

    You claim to be a ‘leader’, as I recall. Someone suggested you’re charging money for your snake oil bullshit and intend to force young men out into the wilderness alone for a year, to see if they survive. Or not. Seems scandalous to me. But you’re an American, that’s what they do, exploit people, rip them off, say and do anything if it’ll make a profit. You’re exploiting doom. Same old, same old.

    Your ‘plan’ for people to move further north and grow vegetables. Ignoring the fact that it’s dark half the year, there’s an Arctic Ocean there already, no soil, no infrastructure, the weather is as extreme as anywhere on the planet, a host of other hazards which make the scheme highly unlikely to succeed.

    But I don’t care about that. I’ve wished you luck with it many times. I just wish you’d fuck off and do it. This isn’t a survivalist blog. We don’t spend all our time discussing ammo and how kill people and how to preserve food for decades. Best wishes with your ‘Breeding Pairs’.
    Why don’t you go tell these guys all about it, they’ll love you more than Guy, me and pat do.

    http://www.gunsgrubandgold.com/

    As I’ve stated, over and over again, I do not tell people what they should or should not do.
    Personally, I support DGR. My efforts are devoted to the other species which are blameless.
    Mother Earth produced us, we trashed everything, mostly in my lifetime, I feel a duty to the other species, they have no vote or options. My starting point is ecocentric not anthropocentric.

    I think people should be very serious, contemplate our predicament with great care and commitment, and then do whatever they think and feel is the right thing for THEM. Not for me, for them.

    You never listen to what anyone here says to you. You just blank it all out, and keep blasting us with your high pressure sales pitch trying to instill your message that we must get onboard with you and your stupid project.

    I say stupid advisedly, because, the temperature goes up, the climate becomes chaotic, sea levels rise, the Fukes melt down, the oceans go anoxic, the plants and animals all die – this is all a plausible scientifically supported prospect, and you know it – and this stays the case for tens, hundreds, of thousands, of years.

    So this is NOT some short ‘bottleneck’ event. This is unlike anything ever experienced by this species, and your depiction is completely dishonest and misleading. But, that’s the sort of person you are, isn’t it.

    There was only one lesson that the human species needed to learn, and that was ‘Do not fuck up the ecology’. That is the only lesson that needed to be passed on to future generations.

    Did you learn that, RE ? Did you understand that ? No.

    And you never listened to anyone here either. You just repeat the same old stupid American Hero bullshit, that if you refuse to QUIT and have The Technology, then you can WIN. Which is why you will lose and fail and why we get NTE.

    Like so many others, you think that a damn techno-bubble can substitute for the natural biosphere and keep you alive. Well, it can. For a very short while.

  • I just listened to an interview with Dr. Natalia Shakhova, who heads Arctic Methane research at the International Arctic Research Centre. My apologies if someone has already posted it. You can listen to it on this link.

    https://robinwestenra.blogspot.ca/search?updated-max=2014-06-26T20:09:00%2B12:00&max-results=20&start=12&by-date=false

    P.S. It’s 86F/30C in Churchill, Manitoba (on the shores of Hudson Bay) this hour. This is their third 78F/26C+ day in a row. Normal high is 55F/13C.

  • Fwiw, my position has developed, over very many year, most of my life, so it cannot be summed up in a comment box. But it is rooted in environmental ethics. Which means, for the likes of Chia and RE, that I am not interested in how a few humans might be squeezed through a hypothetical bottleneck.

    My position in not anthropocentric. That doesn’t mean ‘I hate all humans and want them to die’ as RE in his ignorance, chooses to interpret it. My position it far more sophisticated than that, and I am against human suffering and would wish it could be avoided.

    However, this has all been explained to RE, repeatedly, and he is not sufficiently literate to grasp a nuanced argument. I can’t be held responsible for other people’s stupidity. My ecocentrism does not equal misogyny.

    Environmental ethics can be defined, in very general terms, as efforts to articulate, systematize, and defend systems of value guiding human treatment of and behavior in the natural world.

    http://www.religionandnature.com/ern/sample/Taylor–EnvironmentalEthics.pdf

  • “Yes, and those with a brain who read what I say here will recognise that you are a liar who deliberately misrepresented my position.”-UF

    I doubt that. Anyone with a brain here who reads what you write will see a Napalm Artist pitching Ad Hom all over the board.

    Below here is a Sampler of UF Napalm, and none of this is directed at me, its hitting on various others who comment here and dare to take issue with the Group Think and Party Line of NTHE, as Enforced by UF on NBL.

    I could have searched deeper, but this was quite enough I think to gather the SMELL of Napalm in the Morning off the keyboard of UF.

    RE

    Oh, gosh, I’m happy to be an arse, but that doesn’t make you a climate scientist, does it, Weddle, or redeem you as an intelligent individual worthy of my respect.

    My position isn’t threatened, is it. How could it be ? I’m just revealing you to be what you are. Ignorant, incompetent and dishonest.

    You see, it’s not ‘a simple mistake’ is it, Weddle. It’s an indicator of your insight and competence and overall level of engagement with the subject matter here.

    It’s you picking up a banana and labelling it as an apple. It’s such an elementary and basic ‘mistake’ that nobody with serious involvement with climate science and the methane clathrate ‘bomb’ and arctic warming and so on, could possibly make it.

    It just shows what sort of person you are, and what sort of intellect you have, and what sort of attitude you apply.

    And yet, although you are so utterly useless, you criticise Guy, find fault with his feedbacks, and claim you see the ‘evidence’ shows different conclusions.

    It’s not surprising, is it, that you see different conclusions, and don’t expect NTE, when you cannot understand and evaluate what is right in front of your fucking nose.

    I’m disrespectful because I regard you as a fool, and, worse, neither honest nor sincere.

    I laugh at your pathetic trawling through the RC comments because it demonstrates your grubby mentality. Send me your address, Tone, I’ll post you a pair of my dirty socks to sniff, you’ll enjoy that.

    Batter Up! / Re: Hope « on: June 21, 2014, 04:11:42 PM »
    More nonsense from artleads. But at least he admits he knows nothing about anything.

    This is how the American Empire began. Well, if you forget about the British, European, roots.

    It never stopped. The only remaining areas not yet conquered are Russia, China, N. Korea, and Iran, and they are working hard at fixing those.

    http://www.slate.com/content/slate/blogs/the_vault/2014/06/17/interactive_map_loss_of_indian_land.html

    Blog Discussion Threads / Re: The Money Valve II

    « on: June 19, 2014, 05:04:50 AM »

    The line of thought in my comments is that you are a sneaky, slimy, creep, Weddle, and a liar.

    My comments are directed to YOU and about YOU.

    You do everything you can to evade and avoid and deflect, because you think you can deceive me and other readers.

    This has nothing to do with Light and Carana, nothing to do with me commenting on RC – which I have done from time to time – this has nothing to do with anything at all except your duplicity and deceitful two-faced dishonest insincere personality which disgusts me.

    You pretend to be innocently asking naive questions ‘about the science’.

    I fell for that, when you first arrived, and tried to help you, assuming you were a person of good faith.

    It took me a long time to discover what you are really like. But now I know, you slimy bastard.

    You want to continue this ? Go ahead. I’ll drag you out into the open and show everybody what a shit you really are, you liar.

    I answered your questions, Guy answered your questions, it’s all on the record. You’re playing games here, and trolling.

    It’s a waste of my time, but if you want me to, I’ll do it, and copy and paste every damn quote from the Climate Summary if necessary. You have no integrity and I’ll show everyone what you are. Is that what you want ? Yes or no ?

    Blog Discussion Threads / Re: The Money Valve II

    « on: June 18, 2014, 04:17:47 AM »

    Stop trying to change the subject, you slimy fuck.

    I’m not talking about Light and Carana, I’m to YOU about YOU.

    Blog Discussion Threads / Re: The Money Valve II

    « on: June 17, 2014, 05:23:24 AM »

    You are a dishonest little shit.
    @ Bat Masterson Jr

    Epic fail yourself, pathetic cowardly drive-by concern troll with nothing positive to contribute.

    You got some something specific you want to say regarding legitimate concerns about global warming ?

    Calling someone ‘immature’ is an insult !  ;D

    I was just getting warmed up before I let rip at Chia…  ;D

  • As I have indicated directly to ulvfugl, he is at least narcissistic and likely psychopathic, so I would suggest to anyone struggling with his behavior to research these subjects rather than ask ulvfugl – that’s not going to work!

  • ulvfugl.

    That was clearly stated! And I cannot see anything there to disagree with.

    The government of NZ promotes similar contradictory and self-defeating policies to those promoted in Britain. The examples are too numerous to mention here.

    One particular ‘problem’ we have at the moment is that about 4,000 more people are arriving in NZ every month than are leaving. I know that is ‘peanuts’ compared to influx into other countries, but it is nevertheless causing mayhem in certain locations, especially in ‘Orcland’, where house prices have surged (they seem to be mostly in the range $500,000 to $800,000 NZ) at the very time that everything is starting to seriously wobble globally. I suppose the madness will continue until something in the system breaks; then look out!

    Regarding Toba: Everything I have seen indicates that a tiny band, consisting of perhaps only 150 individuals, managed to cross from Africa to Asia, and that numbers had increased significantly by the time of the Toba eruption. Although Toba is interesting in its own right, it was not a globally devastating event on a par with the asteroid impact of 65mya, and probably did not significantly reduce human numbers, since they were far below ‘plague’ level at the time and food was abundant at the time.

  • Guy keeps talking about the clathrate (methane) gun as key tro his theory of NTE. But real experts in this area are not on board with this idea:
    [audio src="http://www.ecoshock.org/downloads/climate2012/ES_Archer_120215_LoFi.mp3" /]

  • Alex Smith constantly underplays the story, and Archer is known to do the same. They’re a perfect pair. The real expert is Natalia Shakhova, and she’s very worried, as indicated in this series of video clips.

  • From listening to the RE interview with Guy, it seems that Guy is relying on a blog post by Sam Carana for his conviction that the clathrate gun has been fired. If anyone can point to information about Sam Carana, I’d be interested to know. Guy also refers to a Malcolm Light article, in the Climate Update post. There, he seems to imply (by referring to it as “oft-disparaged” that Light’s earlier work was sound, even though it used a single small set of erroneous data. Not that one should attack the person but if his previous article was based on false assumptions, then one should be very wary of his most recent article (which refers to a lot of Carana’s work).

  • As I’ve written and said before, Tony — and you keep ignoring it, and focusing only on evidence you disparage, just like Mark and others here — there exists “overwhelming evidence regarding the firing of the clathrate gun. Critically important papers have appeared in Science, Nature, Geophysical Research Letters, and Global Policy, as well as from NASA’s CARVE project, but there has been no general scientific acceptance and reporting of this major phenomenon.”

  • Mark

    “real experts”
    “in this area”

    That’s it, I’m convinced!

  • @mt Re: “real experts”, I think you’ll find Archer’s credentials pretty impressive. Of course, you may prefer the opinions of biologist Guy, geologist Malcolm Light (now expelled from AMEG), or Sam Carana (an engineer).

    @Guy, I listened to the first video by Shakhova and found it very difficult to parse, perhaps because she is not a native speaker of English or because she is a poor speaker. I would appreciate a bullet point summary of her findings from someone (Guy?) Also, why is Archer wong when he says that if Shakhova’s worst case scenario comes to pass it would actually be a good thing that would give a temporary warming boost that may actually rouse humanity to real action? (said at the end of this podcast)

  • Computational ocean chemist, David Archer has said “… making the potential of this “bomb” occurring very low.”

    That’s not exactly saying it can’t happen. Also, many of the climate models have been off on their timing, so I would not be to optimistic about one “experts” results. The fact remains, methane, like co2 is going up every year and the Arctic is changing faster than anyone predicted. Clathrate gun or CH4 pyroclastic flow; the methane monster is on the way so pick your poison. While all this is happening our fearless world leaders are playing the last ever game of “RISK” on behalf of their/our corporate owners for the remaining carbon. Just like Michale T Klare predicted in his book “The Race For What’s Left”

    http://www.bard.edu/cep/blog/?p=6277

  • I think you’ll find Archer’s credentials pretty impressive.

    Like him publishing joint papers with the chief scientist of Exxon, you mean ?

    And when he did his famous survey of the methane ? Stating that the clathrates are all in the very deep cold ocean so we don’t need to worry for thousands of years, which was completely wrong, because most are in the very shallow ocean on the continental shelves, which warm much faster, especially when ocean currents move, as they are doing, and 25% are at the ESAS which is warming faster than anywhere else on Earth ? That kind of impressive ‘real expert’ ?

    @ RE

    Why are you cluttering this blog with stuff from the Forum ?
    Sure I have fights with people. So what ? There’s nothing there I’m ashamed of, and unlike you, I don’t tell lies.

  • Mark

    Although the audio quality is lousy, I have no problem understanding Dr Shakhova. Maybe your a poor listener or she is using too many big words. Try listening to her speaking in Russian or ask a friend for help.

  • Like him publishing joint papers with the chief scientist of Exxon, you mean ?

    Ad hominem, disregarded.

    Stating that the clathrates are all in the very deep cold ocean so we don’t need to worry for thousands of years, which was completely wrong

    I also disregard the statements by anonymous nobodies in favor of the findings of a professor whose specialty is ocean sedimentary processes such as CaCO3 dissolution and methane hydrate formation.

    Clathrate gun or CH4 pyroclastic flow; the methane monster is on the way so pick your poison

    Find any published climate scientist saying that this will be a human extinction event and I’ll sit up and take notice.

  • Like him publishing joint papers with the chief scientist of Exxon, you mean ?

    Ad hominem, disregarded.

    Stating that the clathrates are all in the very deep cold ocean so we don’t need to worry for thousands of years, which was completely wrong

    I also disregard the statements by anonymous nobodies in favor of the findings of a professor whose specialty is ocean sedimentary processes such as CaCO3 dissolution and methane hydrate formation.

    Clathrate gun or CH4 pyroclastic flow; the methane monster is on the way so pick your poison


    Find any published climate scientist saying that this will be a human extinction event and I’ll sit up and take notice.

  • Note to Guy: please re-enable the BLOCKQUOTE html tag here; it would make the blog comments more readable.

  • “Find any published climate scientist saying that this will be a human extinction event and I’ll sit up and take notice.”

    You already have. If the thought was not disturbing to you, you would have let it go and never looked back.

  • RE @ June 27th, 2014 at 4:23 pm,

    When read together,one gets a different perspective.

  • “Why are you cluttering this blog with stuff from the Forum ?”-UF

    Those are Blog Posts dimwit. They get auto-transferred over to the Forum because we synchronized the databases when we migrated NBL to resolve Guy’s SPAM issues. SMF has better search tools than WP, so I searched the DB there to get a sampler of your style. We put the DB up pinhead, you think I don’t know how to search down posting? Yeesh.

    Your words speak for themselves. You are a Napalm Artist, you attack people non-stop and it is about impossible to have a civil conversation with you if you take an opposing viewpoint to your own. You constantly categorize people as Infantile or Juvenile or Childish, this is your favored metaphor for disrespecting other posters if they don’t drink the NTHE Kool-Aid.

    Res Ipsa Loquitor.

    RE

  • @ RE

    Those are Blog Posts dimwit. They get auto-transferred over to the Forum because we synchronized the databases when we migrated NBL to resolve Guy’s SPAM issues. SMF has better search tools than WP, so I searched the DB there to get a sampler of your style. We put the DB up pinhead, you think I don’t know how to search down posting? Yeesh.

    So how come none of those comments are on the Blog and they only appear on the Forum ? Yes, I do think that you do not even understand what you constructed. Anybody is free to check and verify, to see who is the dimwit.

    If people go there, they will have the benefit of reading the other side of the exchange, which may, or may not, lead them to comprehend why I respond in that fashion. I make no apologies for what I say. If people insult me, I insult them back. If that offends you, don’t read it.

    Guy has asked for civility here, and for people not to be jerks. You, RE, have always been a jerk and continue to be so. I attempt to respect his request and to be civil in this space.

    The Forum is a free speech area. I have replied to the person called Mark there, in my uncivil mode, as I feel is appropriate for such individuals, who attempt to hide behind formality.

    I have now wasted my quota here, on you.
    All further comments will have to be on the Forum.

  • @ulv

    re siddhi

    There is shirtloads of evidence out there as you say, but the educated human knows better than to look!

  • Oh good grief. You want me to search down the WP database also? OK, I can do that. Here’s a UF sampler starting from 2012. This only comes from the first 20 pages or so out of around 300 on the search.

    A Leopard does not change it spots from WP to SMF. You are an asshole wherever you keyboard.

    C’mon, people. This G McPherson v. JMG nonsense is shameful and juvenile. I’ve been reading both blogs for years. Please stop behaving like spiteful children. If you want to attack someone, attack someone reallybad, there are plenty of ‘em. We have enough problems to cope with without stirring up pathetic egotistical rivalries between folks who are basically on the same side, it’s negative and demeaning.

     

    And this I can’t see a few degrees of warming driving humanity to extinction. We are the most resourceful and adaptable vertebrate ever to live.

    What utter nonsense. Perhaps we are the most arrogant, hubristic, conceited, perverse and ignorant, in our present form… resourceful ? adaptable ? We’ve only been around for a couple of million years. That’s a blink of the eye in geological time. It’s is exactly that stupid attitude that is our downfall, our delusions of grandeur that we are the masters, the all-conquering supreme beings… Yuk.
    “A few degrees of warming…” You really have no idea what you are talking about, have you.

    Thank you for your light hearted loose brained response, tvt.

    Hahahahaha, jeez, MB, fuck off will you, with your silly childish insults…. or at least come up with a better quality insult, something interesting, creative, original… ‘head… ass…’ Oh dearie me !

    I see. So, a non-traditional southern landowner isn’t a southern landowner. I get it. Thanks. Makes sense. If you were following, I conceded to call my rhymes something else, it’s not important to me that they be considered Limericks, even though they heavily borrow from the device, but to imply something’s inferior and not a challenge because it doesn’t follow the “accepted” rules, doesn’t necessarily follow, and that’s at the crux of it

    No, you don’t see. You’re hopelessly muddled. I know little about southern landowner, so I’ll not venture an opinion on them, but, generally, the world is full of things, which are described, defined and categorised, by common agreement, so that we can communicate.

    If I was a book publisher and asked you for a limerick, and you agreed to supply me with one, I’d expect an effing limerick, not some potty neologism that you’d cooked up.

    Same as if I’d sent you money to buy a book from you, I’d expect a book, not some onions.

    Simple.

    Some traditions I hold in very high regard, and think they are well worth fighting for, so that they don’t get lost. Thatching roofs, for example.

    Some traditions deserve to be stamped out, IMO. Cliterodectomy, for example.

    Others I’m neutral about, if people reallywant to chase cheese down hills, what do I care ?

    As for what you do personally with the limerick form, or what you call it, I care not one bit, but the examples you’ve sup[plied so far are hardly memorable, are they ? Pretty poor, compared with the ones that are heard once and stick in your head for a lifetime. So, yes, they probably are inferior, at least in that respect.

    You WANT to discuss 9/11, you ask what we think…

    You DON’T WANT to discuss 9/11, because it’s ‘playing into their hands’….

    ( who ever the unspecified ‘they’ are, and whatever playing into their hands may mean )

    Make your mind up, MB, which is it ?

    You recommend that everyone should watch the Ted K. documentary, 2 hours long, and yet you have nothing to say about it, except that Brockman leaves his office with a big hat and raincoat…

    And YOU make a fool of yourself, by saying stupid, lame things, then insulting me, Ozman, and Jeff S. and others on other threads, and now it’s all OUR fault for conducting a Salem-style witch hunt against YOU…

    Dearie me….

    Hahaha, frothing at the mouth much, Morrocco Obama ? Nonsense about limericks, rules, and now this regression to an infantile tantrum mode.

    My impression of you is someone who wants ‘Hey, look at me everyone, aren’t I so very smart !’ and if you don’t get that, then you cause disruption until you get the attention you crave.
    Not smart at all, though, just rather confused, messy thinking, aggressive, and unable to conduct a civil conversation. I don’t bother myself with such people, there are too many of them on the internet to permit them to waste my attention. Go write some abusive comments on youtube or facebook or whatever, you’ll find an abundance of similar minds to your own.

    Morocco Bama, you’ve shown yourself to be are a waste of time, incapable of serious adult conversation, not worth engaging with. Go fuck yourself.

    “Do you pop muscle relaxers before you reply? I was referring to the term “Inside Job”. Quit being obtuse. Cut the shit. What are your thoughts about 9/11? What was it all about, in your opinion? Is it what the 9/11 Commission said it was? Instead of cherry picking what I say, tell us what you think about it. I assure you it will come down to a “they”, so answer your own rhetorical question. I’ve made it clear that I don’t believe the 9/11 Commission report and the Official Story is full of holes….a major fabrication, imo. So, the next question would be, who, or what, did 9/11? That who/what would be the “they” and I don’t know who the “they” are, so “they” will remain “they” until the day I do know, which will be never, I’m sure. However, that doesn’t preclude the fact that if someone plays up 9/11 beyond its import, that someone plays into the hands of the aforementioned, and unidentified, “they”.”

    Do you have any interest in intelligent, constructive communication, or are you a waste of everyone’s time ? Fuck off with your offensive stupidity.

    You’re ‘logic’ is pitiful. You have no idea who ‘they’ are, but somehow we are playing into ‘their’ hands ? What garbage. You expect me to take you seriously ? Sorry mate, you’ll have to come up with something a bit more impressive than that.

    No, i’m not going to offer answers to any of your garbled responses, until you show a bit of courtesy and respect, and make some effort to express yourself clearly, preferably with some thought and consideration first.

    MB : “Talk is cheap, especially with such an esoteric topic

    Hahaha, certainly is, you’re a fine one to say that, seeing as you shout your mouth off regularly about subjects where you know nothing, rather than inform yourself first. ;-)

    It’s only ‘an esoteric topic’ for you, because you don’t know anything about it. For millions and millions around the world, it’s part of their ordinary daily lives.

    Oh gee, okay. You got me. Well, whatever flavor one wants to call it today, it’s still proselytizing, imo. Talk is cheap, especially with such an esoteric topic. Get out and Do the Dew if one os that passionate about it, and quit talking about it. If some of you are a product of that philosophy, then by virtue of your example here on the internets, I want no part of it. I liken the discussion to an argument about the existence of the Holy Trinity….something very dear to Roman Catholics. “Gurus” and “Teachers” and “Masters” and “Priests” know how to keep themselves in business, I’ll give them that. Never answer the questions, and always keep them coming back and asking for more. It’s job security, and it works quite well…until the advent of the internet. With the advent of such, the proselytizers are scrambling to reinvent themselves….and perhaps that’s what this discussion is really all about.

    More ignorance. Are you proud to be a fool ?

    ‘Some of you’ ?? I’m speaking for myself, and myself alone, so address me directly, if you have something to say to me.

    ‘You want no part of it’ ? Who said anything about wanting YOU to be part of ANYTHING ?

    As for your slur, about ‘never answering questions’, I answer anything that anybody asks me; ‘asking for more’ ? More what ?

    You’re barking crazy, MB.

    It doesn’t matter what your neighbours are like. Try visiting London, 180 different languages in one school… but that’s neither here nor there, what matters is what the guys with the POWER decide…

    You don’t even understand what fascism is. It doesn’t have to involve any kind of ‘purification scheme’, it’s the union of state and corporate (capitalist) power, and the removal of civil rights. Sure, it can involve ethnic cleansing, if that’s a useful tool for power to achieve its ends. The Russians ‘cleansed themselves’, whilst being supposedly of the opposite end of the spectrum to the Nazis. Same thing has happened repeatedly throughout history, all over the world, with no linkage at all to fascism.

    You need to educate yourself. Do please try. at least.

    As for the rest, it’s just garbage, that I’ve already addressed. I’m not the least bit interested in ‘recruiting’ anyone to zen, your whole premise is ignorant and absurd, but that’s what I’ve come to expect from you, MB, flippant, shallow, irresponsible, foolishness, from someone incapable of serious thought.

    Violence ? What violence ? There’s no violence in the video !
    You must be hallucinating, or is it your usual paranoia ?
    It’s not a bar, it’s a martial arts club.
    I laugh all the time. I find you most amusing. Thanks for being such a clown.

    It was insightful, but you’re not here to share, you’re here to monologue and blow wind. You don’t impress me in the least, but obviously, you do impress yourself. You’re full of hot air…that’s it. You do have a way with words, but your words lack depth and substance, and you both repeat yourself and contradict yourself repeatedly. The fact that you find so little common ground with anyone or anything shows me that you’re just here to relieve your hard-on to argue ad nauseam about everything, and yet nothing. I take particular pleasure in knowing that when this thing finally does go down, so too will what I just described. Hallelujah!!

    Insightful ?? Oh sure. Idiot. Now why would I want to impress YOU ? Shallow, superficial, opinionated fool.
    You have not done the work, but you want to claim the fruits. That makes you a fraud, a con man, a huckster, trying to gain status under false pretenses. Shame.

    MB :Well, it was an idiotic quip that completely missed the point.

    Yes, idiotic, perfectly matching the tone and tenor of your idiotic contribution. If you had said something profound and insightful, then I’d have matched that quality, and we might have had a productive worthwhile exchange, but as it is you continue your loudmouth vituperation on topics that you have made no serious attempt to understand. Shame.

    RE

  • RE is right inasmuch as newbies here are attacked if they do not genuflect to the altar of the Church of Imminent Extinction, high priest GM in attendance.

    That’s a shame, because these are interesting matters I’d like to see sanely discussed, without the cultish atmosphere and personal put-downs.

  • Guy,

    If there is abundant evidence of the clathrate gun having been fired, then you should include links to peer reviewed research rather than blog posts on the Arctic-News blogspot. It would help others figure out if that evidence is conclusive enough. As I’ve mentioned before, serious discussion is not allowed on that blog.

    Bud,

    As Guy stated on the podcast, he is quite aware of what “extinction” means and it doesn’t include NTNHE. You may not care about what happens to humans but I care about what happens to some humans. If it’s a bottleneck rather than extinction then some people I care about may make it through. I also care about enough other species getting through to help build a functioning ecosystem again.

  • https://robertscribbler.com/2014/06/27/dozens-of-massive-wildfires-in-central-siberia-belch-1200-mile-smoke-plume-over-hot-tundra/#comment-17122

    Dozens of Massive Wildfires in Central Siberia Belch 1,200 Mile Smoke Plume Over Hot Tundra

    Let’s just cut to the chase, it’s been hot in Siberia.

    This winter, temperatures throughout large swaths of this typically frigid land of tundra and boreal forest ranged between 5 and 7 degrees Celsius above average. For brief periods spikes in the very extreme range of 20 degrees Celsius warmer than normal were not uncommon.

    The unusual heat continued into spring igniting a mass of anomalous wildfires in April, a time when most of Siberia remains frozen. By May, more than a million acres had burned, all well before the typical peak of fire season in July and early August. But that was mere prelude to peak fire season, which we are starting to enter now.

    [ends with]

    Typically, the fires fill the air with particulate and the moisture loading under the heat dome grows ever more intense. Often, and sooner rather than later, a frontal storm accompanied with intense rains sweeps in, catching up the smoke in its cloud mass even as the towering storms douse the raging fires. A song of flood and flame that has become all too common throughout the very rapidly changing Arctic.

    In years of very extreme burning, the smoke-laden clouds darken, losing their white, reflective tops. This further amplifies warming over fire-prone areas, setting the stage for more fires. On the ground, the fires plunge ever deeper into the thawing tundra, seeking more and more fuel. In some cases, the fires are reported to have burned the ground to a depth of 3 feet or more, turning both Earth and Tundra into blackened soot while pumping heightening volumes of CO2 into the atmosphere. The dark smoke aloft lifts away, eventually finding a resting place on sea ice or glaciers. There the heating feedback continues over ominously Dark Snow.

    The whole terrible process continues until the globe at last tilts away from the summer sun, shutting the whole dreadful feedback down. But each year, we fuel it more through our burning of fossil fuels. Each year, the global greenhouse gas heat forcing ratchets higher and more and more tundra land thaws as the burn line creeps north, providing ever more fuel for the Arctic flames.

    [check out the comments too]

  • @Tony Weddle

    If there is abundant evidence of the clathrate gun having been fired, then you should include links to peer reviewed research

    ? The establishment does not always portray the cutting edge.

    THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE

  • The establishment does not always portray the cutting edge

    If you live on the cutting edge, you may end up bleeding (or looking dumb).

    “Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge” (Darwin)

  • **If there is abundant evidence of the clathrate gun having been fired, then you should include links to peer reviewed research**

    Tony – if you insist on demanding special attention – at least read the excellent *Climate-change summary and update* page.

    The links you demand can be found in the first paragraph of the *Self-Reinforcing Feedback Loops* subsection.

  • @Mark

    look up non sequitur and try and get a sense of humour

    totally underwhelmed

    YAWN

  • When I pulled up NBL this am, I was surprised to see so many comments. As I scrolled, I soon learned that we are back to the arguments. Sigh.

    And, I can’t help but notice that you men are talking to yourselves again. Another sigh.

    Whether any human beings survive the various clusterfucks we have put in motion is of no interest to me. I’m kinda hoping none do, because we are really bad news for the planet. I’ll just point to the 200 species going extinct each day to support that claim.

    What matters is how we go. And from the evidence I see, we’re gonna go out taking as much with us as we possibly can.

    If your response to that is to root for human beings to survive, then we really have nothing to talk about.

    I continue to put grape jelly out for the Baltimore Orioles, the house finches and even the grackles because I hope that something survives us. I plant and garden because I hope something survives us. That is all I care about….that, and a good death, which is probably a fruitless hope, but there ya go….selfish human.

    Enjoy the day, gentlemen.

  • @ww

    It is life’s program.

  • Perhaps a trained psychiatrist such as Dr Carolyn Baker may wish to evaluate those hypotheses.” – Dr. Chia

    Two papers in journals discuss the issue of disorientation caused by “you are here” maps.

    It is related to not knowing where one is and not being able to know who to trust on the issue, especially not trusting one’s own navigational skills.

    The YAH condition is anything from mild to intense dementia concerning civilization’s not being aware of the planet we are on.

    Like not being aware of the laws of a foreign country one is visiting. Some people go to dungeons for years because of that particular unawareness. And some are murdered because they say or do the wrong thing at the wrong time.

    That is our civilization’s predicament on this planet. We are lost in space at the moment (You Are Here).

  • But Nye sez: “… will someone help me understand the often vicious horizontal hostility, the personal attacking and verbal violence related to this and other issues on this and related blogs?”

    I like Ed’s answer given above, but my immediate reaction was different. To questions such as this one there are many potentially long, erudite, humorous, and clever responses. I could write a few myself. At the considerable risk of over-reduction, however, I’d say it can be summarized as lack of emotional control and self-restraint, which actually goes a long way toward explaining the long arc of human behavior. You already stated that “humans exist as first and foremost highly emotional, fundamentally insane animals that think and behave rationally only rarely and with great effort.” To this I would add that we figgered various means of extending our power (technical and rhetorical) but remain on the whole the equivalent of toddlers throwing temper tantrums. One can, for a time, get one’s way that way, but it’s mostly pushing and shoving to obtain a prized social position in the sandbox.

    I left all this behind years ago at NBL and elsewhere. I drop in periodically to sees what’s current, but, alas, witness the same old behaviors with different casts of characters. My absence means that I no longer recognize whose fits are most childish, but there appears to be plenty of contenders.

  • Ulv

    I know you are quite literate.
    But is that enough?
    Is that the end of the road.?
    Gathering a lot of information that serves no purpose in the end, is that practical?
    Does it make some sense to you?
    Knowledge, being literate, is not equal to being wise.

    Some time ago, I discovered that general culture is good, as allows you to decide considering more information, and probably leading you to take wiser decisions.
    But at the same time, concluded that there is a limit on how much information you can usefully handle. So gathering a lot of information, reading a lot, is not enough if you are not able to do something useful with that.

    We constantly make mistakes. We should share them. I do. I am not sure if they will help, but logic tells me that they should, even not seeing any apparent change.

    And regarding environmental ethics, I think that is something we have to learn how to handle. We can, but we are not trying. And you are not helping certainly.

    I have known some old persons, that being old, acted as a young kid. It was quite a surprise to me certainly. I did not expect that kind of behavior in an old person, because of age, was expected to be wiser. My conclusion is that age does not mean wisdom.

    A wise person understands that it is almost an obligation to share “enlightenment”, and for that, you have to “go down”, not expect others to “go up”. The wise person will look for ways to transmit the message, in a language the others can understand.

    Thanks for taking the time to provide some answers to my questions.
    But you missed the most relevant.
    Who are you?

  • @ Henry

    I LOVE it! “You have to marvel at a species that produces both the Scientific Method and Denial as major constituencies.” If one begins with the premise that humans exist first and foremost as a highly emotional, fundamentally irrational species, this contradiction makes perfectly good sense. On the other hand, if one starts with the ever-so-popular premise that we exist as rational animals, then your observation–and many, many other contradictory and self-destructive human behaviors!–makes no sense at all.

    @ ulvfugl

    I think much deep truth exists in your statement that: “There was only one lesson that the human species needed to learn, and that was ‘Do not fuck up the ecology’. That is the only lesson that needed to be passed on to future generations.”

    @ Brutus

    Of course I agree with you completely and enthusiastically. I now carry this visual image clearly in my head: a child astride a large, often mean elephant. The child represents our more rational thinking, rarely and barely in control of the elephant, which represents our much older, far more in control, emotional nature. This points clearly to the critical importance of first establishing a “heart connection” BEFORE trying to resolve differences in rational ways. Much more often than not, having first established that critical, emotional connection, differences, disagreements, power struggles, and misunderstandings quite naturally and easily resolve themselves, and any remaining differences become much easier to resolve. I think that, in general, women understand and have much more skill with this than men do.

  • Addressing the Part 2 vid: Guy’s book is called “Going Dark” NOT Growing Dark…unless that is suppose to be funny some how???

  • @Henry

    “The mines come with the farm?”

    Si, senor…pero los derechos para minerales…no tan mucho.

    But look on the bright side…you can buy an IED-resistant APV as a replacement for your tractor when it breaks down, and the IRS won’t bat an eyelash when you file it under business expenses.

  • @ Tony Weddle

    If you and others wish to believe that you can meaningfully predict NTHE vs. NTNHE, and that that discrimination matters in some important, practical way to us today regarding the chaotically complex, rapidly changing biosphere, then by all means have at it and continue your passionate argumentation! Meanwhile, all of the wishful thinking notwithstanding, only artificially and temporarily CLOSED systems possess the characteristic of reversibility, while all natural systems remain open and irreversible. (I know. This amounts to a dramatically unacceptable paradigm shift for many people, and it clashes severely with some of our most popular and strongly held human supremacist beliefs, especially in this country.)

  • wildwoman – Your comment above is how I feel also.

    you said : “I continue to put grape jelly out for the Baltimore Orioles, the house finches and even the grackles because I hope that something survives us. I plant and garden because I hope something survives us.”

    That is the only place I can even flirt with the word HOPE myself. In the possibility that some of this amazing beautiful world will be able to continue as it is, unhindered.

    I just released 5 fledgling northern flickers that I raised after the tree that they were nesting in was cut down along the road so that it could be widened for more traffic. Flickers have experienced a 60% decline since the 1970s and are still declining.I will do what I can in my own little corner to give other things a better chance.

    They are so beautiful and I have discovered during their care that they love strawberries. I have a large strawberry patch that is just ripening and I know that they are going to do alot of “harvesting” themselves. And they are welcome to them!

  • Guy. You seem to by making an impression with the ladies.

    http://witchwind.wordpress.com/2014/05/06/it-seems-the-end-is-to-come/

  • UL

    You’re a smart guy and you speak your mind. You make this board interesting.

  • Thanks for the link, Apneaman. Apparently she can’t comprehend: I’ve been blaming patriarchy for many years, but she missed that point.

    Yes, witchwind, I was born with male genitalia. I’m not to blame for that.

  • “A wise person understands that it is almost an obligation to share “enlightenment”, and for that, you have to “go down”, not expect others to “go up”.

    Who are you?

    If my enlightenment, one is referring to mundane or even venal knowledge, this is true. But in reference to nievana, realisation or whatever one wishes to call it, one has to tread one’s own path oneself. A teacher may point out pitfalls, obstacles and other hazards on the way, and ways to make one’s journey easier. But one has to oneself take every step en route. There is neither a “go down” nor a “go up” there; there is no possibility of attainment or regress, just as water neither loses nor “attains” its wetness. Ever. As long as it is water, the liquid.

  • ‘Beware the beast Man, for he cometh from hell as Lucifer’s spawn. Alone among God’s primates, he kills for sport, and lust, and greed. Without conscience, he wrecks devastation upon the good and bountiful Mother Earth. Shun him: If he is permitted to breed in great numbers, he will make a desert of his home and yours. For he is, The Great Destroyer.’ ~~29th Scroll, 6th Verse~~

  • Robin

    I used the Word “enlightenment”, just to denote some kind of awareness, that would make us better in some way. Better in the absolute concept. The logic concept. But not perfect.
    Nothing is perfect.
    In any case, there is no possible regress from any state consciousness.

    Nirvana in specific does not make sense to me.
    If the Nirvana implies a high state of consciousness, one of the first things to be understood by being in that state, is that one person being able to reach that state is not enough. The good must reach everybody, or at least, as many as possible. Otherwise it will be lost, and then, useless.
    In my perception of life, any gifted person should share his capacity, so being gifted means a responsibility. As being able to reach nirvana is a gift, you cannot keep it only to yourself.

    Mundane solutions, for mundane problems is what we need.
    Higher states, so out of reach are useless.

  • Hr. FriedrichKling:
    Thanks (if that is an appropriate word) for the video/slideshow of extinct animals in the 20th century. Maybe one or two such species met every species’ inevitable course as a consequence of natural systems. But the vast majority went kaput from the consequences of human destructive consumption of resources, both renewable and non-renewable. Quite a depressing link.

    “Beware the beast Man, for he cometh from hell as Lucifer’s spawn.”

    There is a Telegu story told to me (in English) by my mother among my earliest memories.

    A monkey instructs its child. Beware of snakes: their venom is in their heads. Beware of scorpions: their venom is in their tails. But especially beware of humans: their venom is all over in their bodies”.

  • @thestormcrow….releasing fledgling flickers sounds like an awesome thing. I can’t imagine what it took to keep those guys going but you did it. Congrats. I may call on your expertise someday if that is okay.

    A mourning dove was nesting on our trellis. When I went out this morning, she wasn’t on it. Closer inspection revealed a dead baby underneath the nest on the stairs. Nothing left in the rather sad nests these birds build.

    Hope is a toad, my friend. Life does evolve strange strategies. So I’m gonna help every critter I can, sow seeds way out of zone, do whatever else anyone else suggests. Those are my prayers. That is my religion.

  • @FriedrichKling

    14 minutes into this video gives a clear idea of why large carnivores stood no chance.

    (The series is well worth watching if you have not already.)

  • Hi Robin,

    Yes, we are all terribly hurt and disgusted by mankind’s vile treatment of the natural world. This anger is borne out in the comments on NBL. Take Ulv as an example. I do not know the gentleman, but based on what I have read he, as do I, adores nature and as a young lad he poured his heart and soul into making a real world difference; however, the state of the environment continued to deteriorate despite a valiant effort. Over time, it’s difficult not to become cynical and misanthropic. The older I am the more difficult it becomes to resist the temptation of adopting a, “screw it” frame of mind. Yet, what other choice remains? We are engaged in a titanic good vs evil struggle. I am fortunate in that German people are taught from the earliest age to respect and revere the essential grace and virtue of the natural world. It’s easier to admit defeat, but by doing so we are enabling the forces of destruction.

  • @FriedrichKling

    ‘We are engaged in a titanic good vs evil struggle.’

    Yes, I have said the same. You may not have seen it: that is what I said to NPDC on 4th June (amongst many other things):

    ‘The final battle between GOOD and EVIL has been raging for over 40 years (since ‘Limits to Growth’, 1972).

    The forces of evil -primarily led by banks, corporations and churches- have won because they control governments and the media (television, radio ‘newspapers’ etc.) and control the MINDS of the people.’

    And on 24th June I said to the newly-appointed Advisor to the Mayor, after discussing many of the critical issues of the times:

    ‘But the point being, we’re caught here; if we nothing we are acquiescing to fascism; we are acquiescing to complete takeover of society by corporations, and trashing everything that matters; if we do fight back, we are totally ignored. Nobody takes any notice, and the thing just carries on anyway.’

  • Sigh.

    I came to this blog and asked the same questions, and got the same non-answers and personal sniping, about a year ago. Nothing changes here.

    “The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new.” Samuel Beckett

    I keep an eye on Guy’s updates page and wait for something substantive to be posted.

    Meanwhile, good luck with the Cult, guys and gals.

  • Well stated, Mr. Kevin.

    For these reasons the only viable solution to our suicidal march toward the abyss is the creation of a global benevolent dictatorship or ruling junta. I know I will catch holy hell for this, but before you throw me under the bus (i.e. oxymoron) what’s your workable solution? I am intrigued to know what others think. Please, realistic ideas only.

  • Mark, there are 7.1 billion responses to the idea of near-term human extinction. I encourage just about anything beyond the dominant paradigm. So far, of course, that encouragement has been lost on almost everybody.

  • Mark

    There are a lot of people and comments on this site I do not agree with. Yesterday was the first time I recall hearing from you, yet instantly I felt like I was hearing finger nails on the blackboard. Such a snotty, whining, demanding sense of entitlement for the answers you feel you deserve.