Terror is Never Sacred from Ray Jason and Video Clip from Reese Jones

by Ray Jason at the Sea Gypsy Philospher

A  handsome catamaran recently docked near my lovely sailboat.  The captain is Russian and his wife is Turkish.  They have two children, and although they are too young for passports, I suspect that they are from the Kingdom of Joy.  That’s because all day long they spread their laughter and happiness throughout the marina.  Whether it is riding their tiny bicycles or fishing with their parents or trying to learn how to swim, their vibrant innocence delights and comforts me.

It has also inspired me.  The essay that I had been working on seemed lost in a mental labyrinth.  It deals with the immense subject of religion, and it had become too big and too confused.  But then a wave and a smile from the two kids suddenly made me realize that I should narrow my focus, and concentrate on religion and children.

 

*******

 

The Ultimate Terror

 

Witnessing the carefree exuberance of these youngsters, bequeaths me both joy and sorrow.  I am happy that they live so effortlessly in the ecstasy of the moment, and that their youth shields them from the woes of the world.  But I am sad that all around the world hundreds of millions of children are having such blissful contentment sacrificed on the altar of hell.

How do we not understand that churches that preach hellfire are the most evil terrorist organizations on the planet?  The worst that a political enemy can do is torture and murder a person.  At least that victim’s suffering ends with their death.  But if a Christian fails to abide by certain rules, they are supposedly doomed to eternal fire and damnation.  And if a person is NOT a Christian, they too are sentenced to endless fiery agony.

If such a virulent dogma was imposed on people when they arrived at adulthood, at least they would have enough life experience to evaluate it.  But forcing such a terrifying vision on an unknowing child is so repellant that I can’t find a word for it – oh wait, here’s a good one – DESPICABLE.

Consider for a moment, the child-raising process.  Human nurturing revolves around the parents steadily and incrementally passing along life-lessons to their offspring.  The kids learn that snakes can be deadly, that deep water can drown them and that fire can kill them.  As this knowledge is passed along to the children, a bond of trust is established.  So when the parents claim that there is this horrible place called hell, where bad people suffer eternal torture, the child believes that as well.

And so their world, which had been such a magical, immediate, constantly unfolding realm of wonder, is suddenly darkened and poisoned by the horror of hell.  Destroying the innocence, optimism and joy of youth with such a doctrine is an indisputable act of terror!

But even more appalling is the fact that it is also an act of deceit.  There is utterly no way that a parent or a priest or even a pope can absolutely know that there is a hell.  And yet they proclaim that this is the case.  When someone insists that something is true, even though they cannot prove it, that person is telling a lie.

And how do the hellfire spreaders defend such a perverse dogma?  They insist that without the threat of eternal incineration, these children would not behave themselves.  And yet the huge portion of the world that is not hypnotized by hellfire religions, such as the Hindus, Buddhists and non-believers, do not rampage around the planet wreaking havoc upon it.  Even though nobody is screaming at them from a pulpit with threats of devils and pitchforks, these people manage to behave with decency and compassion.

So this is my first example of how religion is profoundly harmful to children – it mutilates the innocence and wonder of youth with the terror of a hell whose existence cannot even be proven.

 

*******

 

Morality Does Not Need Religion

 

One of the common defenses of religion is that it is the keystone that keeps the arch of morality from collapsing in ruin.  This is a preposterous claim that is easy to disprove.  There were about 10,000 generations of humanity that preceded the appearance of the sky god monotheisms that dominate today’s religious landscape – or should that be battlefield?  Without any commandments from Hebraic gods, these people managed to discover enough moral principles to not destroy each other and thus they carried on the human line.

Furthermore, throughout history there have been hundreds of other religions that arose, prospered, declined and disappeared.  As each of these disintegrated there was no widespread chaos and carnage even though their ethical precepts had vanished.

Moral knowledge – the awareness of the difference between right and wrong – is innate in all of us.  We do not need priests or mullahs or rabbis to reveal it to us.  The revered “ten commandments” are a perfect example of this.  Four of them are just a megalomaniacal insistence on reverence toward one particular god and the other six are essentially self-evident.  Any New Guinea hunter- gatherer has figured out these things without the need for stone tablets.

Rather than being essential to morality, I find that religion is actually a keystone of immorality.  For decades I have been arguing that the most far-reaching way to improve the world is to replace religion with “BASIC HUMAN DECENCY.”  Consider this short list of things that you cannot do in the name of basic human decency, but that you can do in the name of Jesus or Mohammed:

  • Witch-hunts
  • Suicide bombings
  • Inquisitions
  • Book burnings
  • Holy wars
  • Female oppression
  • Slavery
  • Homosexual bigotry
  • Ethnic cleansing
  • Unwanted children
  • Demonization of scientists

 

One of the main reasons that religion is such a malignant rather than benign force, is because it immediately allied itself with the kings and pharaohs after the arrival of so-called human civilization.  During pre-Agriculture, in the long Paleolithic hunter-gatherer era, there was no hierarchal division of rulers and ruled.   But when Neolithic agriculture provided food surpluses and then division of labor this also initiated what I call “division of importance.”  In simple terms, this means a society comprised of a tiny elite of dominant people and a huge mass of subordinate people.

Those that ascended to the top of the political class tended to be the most ruthless and immoral.  And since religious leaders wanted to be the handmaiden of these pitiless demagogues, they camouflaged their immoral deeds with moral platitudes.  They had already sold their souls even as they were claiming that their mission was to save souls.

 

*******

 

As I sit with my back against the mast, finishing this essay, the two beautiful children come scurrying past.  A few steps behind them are their parents who are carrying tiny swimming goggles and life jackets.  As they disappear down the dock this little scene of happiness somehow inverts itself in my mind’s eye.   And I realize that halfway around the world there are two other parents sobbing in almost unbearable agony as they hold their dead child in their arms.  Ten minutes earlier she had been the joy and blessing of their lives – a bundle of sunshine in human form.

I wonder on which of the current killing fields of the Holy Land this sad event is unfolding.  Is it Gaza, where one religion opposes another?  Or is it Iraq where the carnage is even more perverse — since it is warring sects of the same religion?

I quietly curse all of the senseless, cruel tragedy of life as I sit here pondering it from the evening of my years.  And then I wonder about the future of those precious children on the nearby boat, who are only in the daybreak of their years.  Will their twilight decades see a planet that has been purged of this evil force?  Will their children get to savor a new golden dawn emancipated from this curse which has caused so much horror and suffering down the centuries?

I will not pray for this … but I will yearn for it … and I will work for it!

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Climate Collapse Series | An Introduction & Partial Summary To This Video Series

by Reese Jones (Skype-based interview conducted 25 July 2014)

There is nothing like putting an introduction into the latter part of an audio-video series. Sorely indicative of afterthought, it is a response to the needs of an audience unfamiliar with Guy McPherson and features some of the major whys and wherefores of his basic premises.

Perhaps this belated beginning is analogous to the situation we’re likely in; as we approach the ending, we would like to revise the beginning. Such is the wonderful world of theater and digital media … we can change however and whatever we like as the story unfolds. However, in real life … our confrontation with climate changes offers no such resolution.

As usual, this supposed brief introduction grew in length and now will be uploaded in several parts. This first part answers basic questions and gives us a preliminary look into the man behind the message.

Many people unfamiliar with Dr. McPherson and his prognostications about our future might find this video useful. It helps to address a few of their basic questions. As always, Dr. McPherson says so much in so few words as he discusses a subject that many may find exceedingly difficult to hear.

Many will hope Dr. McPherson is completely mistaken. But, no matter what, his main message is applicable to all of us regardless of what’s coming down the pike: cherish this moment, there’s no guarantee there will be another, and live your life like it matters, for, it really DOES.

We are living in the most remarkable of times.

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In about a month the producer of the docu-drama “22 After” will know if his movie is one of the lucky few to be chosen for a screening at the 50th Anniversary of the Chicago International Film Festival in October. As one of the very few people who have seen it I can tell you the film is a realistic portrayal of life one year after a chain of civilization ending events brought on by climate change. It’s told as a series of recollections from 22 survivors the narrator/filmmaker encounters in both rural and urban settings. The movie has also been submitted to the Sundance Film Festival for consideration as well. But because of the stark, hopeless message, i.e. humanity is doomed, “22 After” may be just too dark for any producer to be interested in. Here’s where you can help… If you know a heavy hitter (Penn Gillete, Michael Moore, Ed Begley Jr., Daryl Hannah, etc.) who might be interested in at least screening the movie have them contact me or the producer of “22 After,” Mark Thoma, ASAP. Here’s his personal email address: mpthoma2003@yahoo.com

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McPherson’s 29 July 2014 radio interview with Gary Null on the Progressive Radio Network is described here. Segment featuring McPherson begins at the 20-minute mark in the audio embedded below, and was recorded in early April 2014.

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Due to an overwhelming number of submissions, essays in this space will appear at the top of the page for only two days. Essays will be intermixed with questions for discussion, of which today’s is the first. If you could ask a single question concerning near-term human extinction, knowing that everyone at NBL will ponder and then offer an opinion, what form would that question take? If you’re willing, please send your question to guy.r.mcpherson@gmail.com. It will be posted anonymously for commentary in place of an essay.

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Nature Bats Last joins the airwaves Tuesday, 5 August 2014. McPherson will be joined every Tuesday at 8:00 p.m. Eastern by co-host Mike Sliwa for this hour-long show on the Progressive Radio Network. Follow the page and join the group on Facebook.

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McPherson’s forthcoming book is co-authored by Carolyn Baker. Extinction Dialogs: How to Live with Death in Mind has been submitted to the publisher and is scheduled for release by mid-September 2014.

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Find and join the Near-Term Human Extinction Support Group on Facebook here

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If you have registered, or you intend to register, please send an email message to guy.r.mcpherson@gmail.com. Include the online moniker you’d like to use in this space. I’ll approve your registration as quickly as possible. Thanks for your patience.

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Going Dark is available from the publisher here, from Amazon here, from Amazon on Kindle here, from Barnes & Noble on Nook here, and as a Google e-book here. Going Dark was reviewed by Carolyn Baker at Speaking Truth to Power, Anne Pyterek at Blue Bus Books, and by more than three dozen readers at Amazon.

Comments 62

  • Wow, lots of good stuff. i’ll be back to comment on it but I just saw this and wanted to share:

    http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Energy-Voices/2014/0729/White-House-climate-change-report-Act-now-or-pay-later-video

    White House climate change report: Act now, or pay later (+video)

    Oh, sure – NOW he’s all about climate change! Where was this President when we had a chance to address these same issues back when Kyoto was going on? Noticeably absent as he tossed the whole gathering under the bus (of corporate greed).

    Well “‘tanks fer nuttin’!” [from Caddy Shack}

  • It’s hardly a surprise that within a religious framework where a capricious deity creates entities and then demands unconditional love from them at the threat of violence– that those who attempt to emulate this “divine” principle might have a tendency towards the mistreatment of children. . .

    It’s useful, I think– to draw a distinction between “morality” and “ethics.” Morality assumes that there’s an inherent existence of a quality of either “good” or “evil” in actions– and of course this like all concepts based on personal truths is a primary source of violence and division. Obviously, personal truths are just that– personal, and there’s very little way to find middle ground between 8 billion versions of right and wrong. Ethics, on the other hand, recognizes the need for intersubjective agreement and frames “right action” in the context of the qualities of “constructive” or “destructive” by observing the objective effects of the gain or loss of value in the the systemic whole. As such, it’s a far more effective strategy for engendering harmonious progress. It’s worth thinking on, especially in the context of NTHE and ecology in general.

  • Ray, good, thought-provoking essay. Now, if only those obsessed with the Abrahamic religions would think about these things.

    If anyone has any interest, I sent the following comment to mikeroberts2013 at Fractal Planet:

    Your subject-changing nicely emphasizes the strongly biased obsession, here, with “proving McPherson wrong” vs. using the scientific methods needed for understanding and reasoning about the complex–not simple or complicated–global warming, ecological, and nuclear collapse issues. You insist on treating these complex systems as though they work as simple or complicated systems, while they do not. Furthermore, you insist that this over-simplistic approach serves as a good, reliable scientific analysis, while it does not. An exclusively Cartesian-Newtonian approach cannot prove adequate for understanding complex systems any more than it can prove adequate for understanding relativistic or quantum mechanics phenomena, yet you proceed as though it presumably can and will. You also tell others that it can and will, and you seem to consider doing this “good science”.

  • Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things: One is that God loves you and you’re going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love.” -Butch Hancock

  • BAGHDAD (Reuters) – Shi’ite militia forces executed 15 Sunni Muslims and then hung them by electricity poles in a public square in a town northeast of Baghdad on Wednesday, police said.

  • Posted this on the previous thread by error.

    artleads Says:

    The religion of MLK and that of the far right are two different things. Whatever the correct term is, I’ll use “geopolitical forces” as the perhaps the main thing which helps to make religion either constructive or destructive.

    The large majority of the world’s people exercise both religion and common decency. But when money and resource scarcity get thrown into the mix, religion can drive all kinds of crazy things. In a time of looming NTE, I fail to see how taking on the impossible task of erasing religion worldwide is constructive.

  • Which will be first? Run-away climate chaos? Economic collapse? Or a World-wide war? Or, is it just the Fourth Turning with climate chaos added for extra effect?

    Paul Craig Roberts — War Is Coming

    In reading Dr. Roberts columns over the last year and his prior articles, I have always been impressed with his background, perspective, and solid political analysis.

    But to say that war is coming seems way over the top. Nevertheless, he provides a detailed, plausible, and probable analysis that revolves around extensive anti-Russian press campaign based on what appears to be a false-flag shoot-down; an upgrade of the anti-ballistic missile ring around Russia, a Western-world economy in crisis, and the neo-con view of Russian resources as low-hanging fruit that can be plucked with a first-strike nuclear attack.

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/28/war-coming-paul-craig-roberts/

    See the Russian perspective here…

  • @Robin Datta
    Thanks for the link to the article from the Two Ice Floes site on previous thread.

    I browsed the site a bit and found this cute story, which has to do with fiat money, but also the idea of “deserving it”, and even has a scene in which a woman gets shot in the back (cf Pat’s reference to either Blade Runner or DADOES).

    Coincidence ? Probably, but…

    http://twoicefloes.com/your-turn/cougar_w-articles/not-even-work/

  • Religion or no religion, people are going to be hungry and sick – and those that are able, will be on the move, en masse.

    The marauding hordes will be searching for concrete domes, intentional communities, and WWOOF farms.

    Raping and pillaging will be all the rage. The survivors will not be “The Best of Us.”

    But this point has been made over and over again – we all know what is happening – and how it’s going to get worse and worse as it all unfolds and descends into utter chaos with a lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Very few humans that ever lived had it so good as I had it – and I had it good for over 50 years – fat and happy years. And, the sad truth is, I took it all for granted and made nothing of it. But, worse still, I contributed to the suffering of many…

  • There is a yet-to-be-discovered switch in the brain which turns off rational thought.

    Religion is known to be a prime trigger for this turn-off-rational-thought switch. Thus, when I discuss aspects of the Bible with believers they present all kinds of arguments to defend the utterly preposterous -such as that kiwis, tuatara and cave wetas found their own way from NZ to the ark or that God magically transported them, or that, despite their insistence that there is no such thing as evolution, only a few representative forms were saved by Noah and those forms diverged [in a non-evolutionary way] to fill the Earth after ‘the flood.

    No amount of logical argument will pull these irrational-thinkers out of the cess pool they have immersed themselves in. However, it is amusing to try occasionally. And attempting to pull them of of the cess pool of irrationality reminds one how stupid most people are.

    The excellent video presentation Robin Datta linked previously suggests a reason for the emergence of ‘sky gods’; a group of ou ancestors living on the coast of South Africa during an extremely dry climate period, which had wiped out most food sources their predecessors had lived on, become increasingly dependent on collecting shellfish and needed to have a good understanding of tides and ‘the sky god who moved the water and made the shellfish available to them’.

  • Paul C,

    I really love your (bold) stance. Refreshing. But here’s my dilemma: People are literally being blown to bits. Those people are resisting with awesome courage. They want things that I consider trivial, if not destructive–new clothes, cars, consumer goods, etc. But these things are part of the reason they resist. At the same time, the horror they are experiencing, and their resistance to it, is leading to serious structural change (IMO): their militants, fueled by the people’s suffering, are doing the unthinkable: occupying the occupier’s territory; only, doing so subterraneously (sp). That lays out the possibility of eventually altering the military dynamics. It also means a possible future underground network that is literally an underground society–energy efficient, NTE aware, temperature resilient, anti-capitalist, and without national status. That means it could accommodate the disaffected from either side, and subvert the current nationalist order and its oppressiveness. If you consider such an outcome significant, then how can it be uncoupled from the protests and false expectations that help drive it?

    Of course, what I project doesn’t have to happen. The dominant forces don’t intend to abandon their aims. But whatever one does/imagines promotes (not ensures) one outcome or another. Where do you see the holes in my little scenario? Can you propose a better way to think about my example of the conflicts that are taking over the world?

    Thanks for your patience if I’m totally missing your point.

  • Dear Bud,

    All your reasoning amounts to a very clear reflection, in real time and in person to me, of the ongoing patriarchal obfuscation and denial of his particular dilemma and crime. Trying to explain and justify our behavior through theories offered by patriarchal scientists must be considered, if one is to be fair and rational, from the vantage of the peculiar and deadly corner humans have been forced  into by the very same. 

    Trying to equate our behavior to the other creatures on this earth and dismiss it as a mere by-product of nature which we, like them, are victims of, goes quite far into the work of obfuscation of the nature of the patriarch and its aberration from  higher life forms around us. We cannot hope to compare ourselves nor understand ourselves by looking to them. Why? ; Industrial patriarchal society is now alien and totally adversarial to this earths creatures, its forces and its ways. 

    It becomes quite perverse and telling when men who appear educated fall victim to such faulty reasoning as trying to say this is happening because it is ‘just so’ in nature.

    There is nothing that we can reference and compare our abortive behavior to except past blooming of civilizations that have risen and collapsed. Their awareness no greater than ours. In fact, our current level of awareness is about 100,000 years old. In that time the aberrant abuse and misuse of our powers as a thinking and self reflecting  creature has grown ever stronger until, in this century alone, we are witnessing its apex in extinction.

    As far as the Matriarch goes it was simply woman’s time of power over men. If you must imagine it was some form of pure nobility then you are simply not paying attention and reading the right books.  It was simply chance that during the patriarchal rule the wheel of fortune clicked to a slow stop and landed on extinction. It could have happened during a matriarchal period and then I would be saying it was the fault of woman-kind and the matriarch because in that case women would be mostly in control of all combined human action, and so they would be mostly at fault.  I find it a nuisance that we are forever distracted by the bad feelings that come with such simple facts. 

    Regardless, matters in the end to me is having great compassion for this species and deeply honest reflection regarding the nightmare which our peculiar awareness has led us to and stranded us in. 

    I repeat here again that how we are is a learned and habituated way to be. Not a natural way to be. To admit this and unlearn our habits and adopt ways that are more noble and excellent is what we can do. But as Guy tirelessly points out, we won’t, now will we? To busy explaining ourselves and insisting we are merely natural in our behavior and so beyond considering that we can indeed change ourselves. 

    So, we are habituated to kill and exploit until extinction is all but guaranteed and we know it, and we are good with that knowing. 

    Dear Guy, thanks for your raw telling of your experience of killing, and eating goats. So true what you say. For me it was rabbits and I pretty much went through the same mad roller coaster. I have gotten to where I don’t eat meat very often and would like to buy humanely raised meat sources. That is not a big market. Pretty much non-existant. 
    Which means I have to let go or be part of something I feel awful about. Or eat my own rabbits again. Eggs from local farmers of free range chickens, milk from pasture raised cows. It creates a more and more limited reality which I think is a very good thing. 

    Dear doomers, this video seemed to fit the spirit of the time;

  • Dear Ray J,

    Blessed, excellent essay.

    Thank you.

  • Hot off the press from Nature (although it has been in review for two years). Published 30 July 2014

    “Changed Symmetry”, is asymmetric, meaning that probability of the lower tail (cold) temperatures would remain approximately at historical intensities and that the distribution of the uppermost extremes (hot temperatures) would increase. Emerging literature suggests that non-Gaussian, power law tail distributions and hence weather or climate extremes may be generated from simplified physics-based models with state-dependent noise.

    In other words, it is more likely to get really hot and crazy more so than just chaotic…

    Asymmetry of projected increases in extreme temperature distributions
    http://www.nature.com/srep/2014/140730/srep05884/full/srep05884.html

  • Ray Jason,
    Congratulations.A very good essay,particularly the first section.Morality exists despite religion, not because of it.
    Kevin Moore, Well said.

  • While I have enjoyed the direct and honest approach Reese has taken with these latest interviews, the tenor of the questions reveals she has probably not invested all that much time in thinking through the implications.

    So, since NBL is in the truth telling business, I would be remiss to not yet again, call into question the role of ‘gardening’ as a means of somehow ameliorating the impact of NTE. For if it were even remotely possible, then we would be fools to be discussing NTE, wouldn’t we?

    If this topic were ‘water under the bridge’, it would be well out to sea at this point, for it has no more relevance to the question of NTE outside just being an excellent past time.

    Gardening has been the ‘go to’ response in context to collapse from the very beginning. In fact, years ago, I stopped using the word ‘collapse’, and only spoke in terms of ‘local food security’, because at the end of the day, I was basically saying the same thing but just focusing more on the positive side of death and destruction. And it was far easier to discuss collapse with others from the perspective of “here’s what we can do about it”.

    A significant number of people here have spent years/decades getting their hands dirty. But we’re not speaking of ‘collapse preparedness’ anymore. But horticulture still remains a constant topic of conversation for a number of obvious reasons, mainly because it is one of the only physical activities we can do to make ourselves feel like we’re ‘doing something’. It is one of only a few recourses left us, which helps us feel like we are being proactive, so it has a bounty of positives we are reluctant to either diminish or discredit. It growing food for crying out loud, and we all need to eat!

    However, it isn’t 1998, and in light of NTE, the theory of local food security has long run out of compost. First of all, aside from a very limited few (if any), no one in the western world is completely independent from “the system”, though a great number of people like to imagine they are because they see themselves on the way of “getting there”. But there’s a big enough hole between that journey and its destination, one could drive most of industrial civilization through it.

    Even for those who produce a majority of their daily caloric requirements, there are still any number of key resources/capital/security concerns/interdependence/external through-puts in which the system still provides some critical function. So the idea that “we” are somehow able to remove ourselves from “the system” is far more a fantasy than a reality, though that fantasy does afford us an important emotional buffer in helping keep our chins up, which again, is why it is still a reoccurring theme. NTE does trend towards despair.

    But that is not the primary reason for why I came to abandoned almost a fifteen year obsession in the pursuit of local food security. That reason, is something I rarely hear mentioned in preparedness circles, and goes a little something like this: In context to NTE, what’s the difference between someone who is 90% self-sufficient from ‘the system’, compared to someone who is completely dependent on it?

    After a few months, almost nothing.

    Even the most self-sufficient farms/homesteads will only allow those involved maybe a few months of reprieve from the dissolution of society before an endless number of foreseen and unforeseen knock down effects start to undermine the best laid plans, with 400 nuclear containment pools pretty much being sine qua non.

    If self-sufficiency is nearly impossible to achieve today, it surely isn’t going to be getting any easier from here on out.

    The localized pandemonium that will result from a collapsed global distribution system, will not only render most everyone involved in homestead preparedness utter basket cases, due to literally everyone they ever knew, being trapped in the throes of starving to death while they are comparatively living large, but unless their surrounding neighbors have as well become self-sufficient, which is highly unlikely, the greatest threat will not be roving urban hordes, but your immediate neighbors. Or rather, any starving parent with a gun and a pair of binoculars within walking distance.

    And while I’m a childless passivist, I sure wouldn’t be if I had starving mouths to feed. In context to NTE, if you’re in the survival business, you’re going to be in the business of killing.

    The fantasy that there will somehow be any number of people peacefully tending to their crops, garden beds, green houses, permaculture zones and animal husbandry while the world literally burns, is so absurd, it truly reflects just how removed “we” have become from the brutal starkness of human nature, where we liberal idealists have just haphazardly projected our values onto a shooting range.

    When the regional supply chains collapse, there will be no tending to the needs of others, given we will be hard pressed to provide for ourselves. Anyone not capable of carrying their weight will have to be forsaken by those desiring to survive, simply because they will have no choice.

    Those who desire to survive will need to protect what they have, and that means killing any perceived or immediate threat. Lest we forget, meth is a wonderful appetite suppressant and it is your neighbor.

    Yes, maybe after the initial wave of chaos, murder and starvation sweeps through, those who live in remote areas who happen to be self-sufficient, might miraculously hold out for even a few years, but at what price?

    Ultimately, I had to come to terms with the reality, that that was a price I was unwilling to pay, whereby, the entire ethos of preparedness vanished back into the thin air from which it came. And my focus shifted towards suicide being the most likely and peaceful way to mitigate against NTE, whenever it finally presents itself at my doorstep.

    For those wanting to survive at all cost, well, you’re seriously deceiving yourself if you think that somehow involves reading and/or writing anything here. If you think you’re going to be one of the lucky few, then how you can find the time to even be online at all is………well, yet another example of how easier things are said than done. But that is the beauty of fantasies, they are only limited by our imaginations.

  • There are no commandments in the Vedic tradition: the Law of Consequences if acknowledged is commandment enough. There is however one guideline, viz. non-harming. This has to be tailored to every situation. If greater harm results from refraining from an act of violence, as in not shooting a gunman on the rampage, then the commission of the violence is the moral act.

  • I think this is what is called ‘Christian Zionism’

  • Daniel:

    I have come to your same conclusions. Per Guy, live a life of excellence until the misery gets to much, then check out.

  • In the previous thread, Reese Jones says:

    “…Not to mention insane
    That is, everyone all except me!”
    ==

    The Truth

    NTE helps me feel free
    To reveal (and you’ll maybe agree)
    My own personal view
    (And the one which is true):
    Everyone’s wrong except me.

  • Reese: I love the child-like honesty of your interviews. It’s also given Guy the “bedside manner” some of his followers have felt he hasn’t shown.

  • @St. Roy: “Per Guy, live a life of excellence until the misery gets to much, then check out.”

    I don’t believe I ever heard Guy say that. In fact, I recall he told Reese in one of the clips that he expected to die “choking on dust”. Since this is a very sensitive issue, I think we should try to be precise. If I am wrong, please do post a link to where Guy counselled us to “check out”.

  • @ Modern Money Mechanics

    But to say that war is coming seems way over the top.

    Seems to me we are already IN WW3 – or some call it WW4, because they count the Cold War as WW3 – but most people are asleep and have not noticed, because, as always, they expect a formal announcement telling them it has arrived and are not capable of seeing for themselves, and, as always, they expect the new war to be like the old war. So they don’t understand that this time it’s not the same as last time.

    Perhaps readers might care to scroll back over some of the comments in the news thread in the forum and skim some of the stuff there, that does not appear on MSM.

    This is a fight to the death, the Empire, the 5 Eyes, plus add-ons, like Israel and Saudi Arabia, fighting for survival, against the rising power of Russia, China and the rest, and it’s being fought on many, many fronts.

    I have stopped paying much attention to climate, methane, Fukushima, etc, etc, because, in my estimation, the time horizon for major global conflict is far closer. There’s not a lot of point in thinking about Paul Beckwith’s time scale, if we are not going to get to get to 2015, because of a nuclear conflagration, is there.

    What are the chances of that ? Well, the move to ‘limit Russian aggression’ as proposed by the US Senate, is pretty much a declaration of war against Russia, and for the USA to do that is increasing the odds, imo, and trying to cripple Russia with trade sanctions, likewise.
    That’s what the US did to Japan, which forced Japan to attack Pearl Harbour.

    https://guymcpherson.com/forum/index.php?topic=691.915

  • “he told Reese in one of the clips that he expected to die “choking on dust””

    Probably NOT Angel Dust – that would be more likely for a commenter or two.

  • Morals & ethics, from differing perspectives:

    Savage Innocents movie playlist 11 videos

  • @ BENJAMINTHEDONKEY

    Indeed! : )

    @ ST.ROY

    Yes, the questions are often meant to include those who are in their late teens and early 20s or those with little to no awareness of such things. For those who are quite knowledgeable, i beg their indulgence. : )

    @DANIEL

    Yes, thank you; actually, the questions have been more or less crafted to include those who have little or no knowledge of impending climate collapse. I tried to come from the viewpoint of the average layperson.

    At times, the questions may sound ignorant, even foolish to those who are knowledgeable. But the questions are those I have received from various individuals and have encountered during conversations.

    The original purpose of these videos was to be accessible to friends, family and anyone who wanted to know more than just the dry, scientific facts.

    I felt it rather imperative to approach this from a human, humble point of view.

    For those who are well-versed, these videos may at times seem prosaic and elementary. I apologize for this… but I also have scientific questions and hope to have them answered as well.

    Small steps… small steps. : )

  • I hear you Reese!

    Here’s a thought, if you want to tackle the age disparity issue within this new body of awareness we call NTE, you’ll be taking on something that has not yet been explored…….for obvious reasons. Good luck, I enjoy your approach, you seem to have a natural storytelling quality about you, very captivating.

  • @ DANIEL

    Thank you Daniel, it’s a great idea. It’s amazing how many teens and 20s feel a bit of “offness” but don’t know how to contend other than simply ignore and try living a hopeful, upbeat life.

    If anyone has anything to lose, it’s as much or more for those for whom life is just beginning. It can be a sorrowful situation. There’s a part of me that asks if it’s best NOT to know. But then, in the knowing, perhaps one can avoid wasting precious energy on useless things, and instead create the most precious moments EVER… and the opportunity to find one’s own, soulful grace amidst the turmoil and trouble.

    Such a hard call! <\3

  • @ DANIEL

    PS: How i do agree with you in so many ways… it just seems that it may be best to grow things as things diminish in the stores, at least for as long as possible.

    Yes… several months at most… And even if one does move to New Zealand – as things grow quite bad, would not ships will arrive and fight to the death to take whatever’s available from whomever they can? Ballistic ships… they’ll have the fuel and ammunition. How do you protect all of New Zealand, Chile, anywhere?

    Global resources would be commandeered, yes?

    If one had the money, the might and the power, would they go anywhere, do anything to find food for their loved ones? Would they invade New Zealand if necessary?

    Honestly… I might… Apologetically, but nonetheless relentlessly without remorse with hungry, desperate children tugging at one’s skirts… what to do but all one can? 🙁

    There seems to be no truly safe place to run and hide, save underground, military fortresses perhaps in Antarctica? To fight for a few years more of hell on Earth – is it worth it?

    So many questions! But yes… we have the beauty of our imaginations…

    It reminds me of the whipping boy… as he suffered so greatly, he was blessed by the most beautiful and wondrous of dreams. Perhaps that’s what WE have. : )

  • Part I of the Interview with Ron Patterson of Peak Oil Barrel now UP on the Diner Blog.

    Ron has a long history of charting the course of Energy extraction on The Oil Drum, before it closed for posting a few months ago.  He is better known as Darwinian to many Peak Oil followers since the old days.

    Part I is mainly a numerical analysis of ongoing depletion issues.  In Part II, we will discuss possible outcomes, including NTHE.

    RE

  • I agree with ulvfugl

    I think the chances that an all out world war will kill us all before climate change does is extremely high. As the US government is doing all it can to antagonise and provoke Russia.

    Best Regards
    Alex D

  • I wanted to end the month with positive news.
    We can save life. All we have to do is stop the oceans’ rise. Change the weather. End wars. Coral diseases. Shut down nuclear plants worldwide. Trap methane. Remove carbon from the air. Cleanup some messes we made. Reorganize our intrinsic greed. Restock the waters. Put out some fires. Plug up some volcanoes. Stabilize earthquake zones. Feed the poor. Quit lying.
    I’m sure I forgot stuff.
    Okay, get to work—NO PROBLEM.
    Now I have possible solutions to each problem. I don’t want to do all the work, so I give you one:
    Ocean rise
    We all know ocean rise is caused by ice melt. Well, stop the melt!
    We need to put a really good freezer at each pole and leave the door open. Pretty simple, huh? Viola’, problem solved.
    Perhaps the toughest issue is our lying. I’m not sure how to fix that.
    I have a feeling that may continue.

  • @artleads

    Thanks for your questions. This line of thinking is fairly new for me, so every question gives me an opportunity to explore it from a different angle. Let me chew on it for a while and I’ll get back to you later today with the outcome.

  • Ok, then.

    First – thanks Ray for your essay. Indeed religion (combined with the other indoctrination process of “public education”)
    warps the developing worldview of the young to conform to “societal standards” that are all fucked up (using the common vernacular, and imho). We’re taught to be users of nature and resources, unquestioningly burning fossil fuels (because we can and it’s “easier”, “more productive” and the like) and to form in and out groups which demand our loyalty (race, nationality, body types, etc) and not to worry about all the waste and pollution that comes with our form of civilization. Now that we number in the billions there’s not much hope of convincing most that we’ve been destroying our own environment, though it’s plain to see, since we know of no other way of meeting our needs now.

    Reese: thanks for the intro video and your sweet way of going about it. You’re good at this and i’m sure will be able to delve into the ugly truth of it all in due time. Please continue.

    Daniel: spot on, as usual. The truth is that we’ve boxed ourselves into a trap that is inescapable and once that is realized, all else becomes a matter of how one wants to spend their remaining days.

    Benjamin: thanks for sharing your (to me) priceless gift of masterful pithy comments that, like a zen master, get right to the heart of it.
    When I was a teen, there was a wrestler who came from Japan and studied and wrestled at (I think) Ok. St. He was orders of magnitude better than his opponents (especially regarding take-downs) and won (at least one) national title. Upon returning home, he was declared a national treasure. I think you fall into the same category.

    ulvfugl: you may be correct that war will be the collapse trigger in the short term, the way things are going. I can’t imagine humanity suddenly coming together to cooperate on a global scale to ration the last resources, or for governments to scale their societies down willingly or to guide us all into a “more sustainable” living arrangement at this point, or for corporations to suddenly get off the profit-at-all-costs paradigm and work for the good of both humanity and somehow foster stewardship of what’s left of the environment. On the other hand, disease, resource depletion (esp. water, food, oil and electricity) will immediately plunge effected areas into chaotic activity once they ramp up to scale. On the last thread, i’m sure you noticed the Washington’s blog post (that Lidia reposted above) regarding many top economists indicating they agree with you. We’ll see how it pans out with any luck. (what? hey wait!)

    MMM: thanks for the statistical analysis you linked to – great read (for us math types)!

    TIAA: super comment (@ 2:38 yesterday), I couldn’t have written it better and agree with your assessment; thanks too for the video.

    pat: I’m with you on your conclusion (@ 1:21 yesterday), however what would we have “made of it” anyway? I knew it was foolish living as if we’d live forever in a wasteful society long ago and cherished all I accomplished, until, like you, I realized it was because unseen others were suffering. Now I hardly work at all (job) and putter around my home and garden, ready to give it all up when the time comes, enjoying what time I have left, knowing it’s too late.

    Dredd: nice comments! Hopefully you’ll get to write something for this site sometime. i’d be interested in whatever you’d delve into.
    Your many blogs indicate a depth of thought I enjoy.

    http://www.theburningplatform.com/

    OUR TOTALITARIAN FUTURE – PART TWO

    In Part One, I asked questions your keepers don’t want to answer truthfully, while providing the contextual setting for how our over-populated world is progressing [link provided]

    http://www.desdemonadespair.net/2014/07/japan-whale-poachers-end-pacific.html

    Japan whale poachers end Pacific slaughter with 115 whales dead

    Japan has wrapped up its whaling campaign in the Pacific with 115 whales caught and killed in its two-and-a-half month operation. It is the second whaling hunt of Japan since the United Nations’ international court had ordered Japan to stop catching and killing whales in the Antarctic.

    According to Japan’s fisheries agency, 90 Sei whales and 25 Bryde whales were captured and killed. The number of whales caught met the pre-hunting target of the whalers.

    [Research! Yeah, right.]

  • While S&S are busy in the Artic measuring methane release,

    http://robinwestenra.blogspot.co.nz/2014/07/methane-hydrates-in-south-atlantic.html

    Thursday, 31 July 2014

    Methane hydrates in South Atlantic

    First evidence of widespread active methane seepage in the Southern Ocean, off the sub-Antarctic island of South Georgia

    Highlights
    •An extensive active seepage area was discovered north of South Georgia.
    •High input of organic matter leads to high rates of formation and emission of methane.
    •Gas emissions were restricted to glacially-formed fjords and cross-shelf troughs.
    •Seepage might be more common in polar and sub-polar regions than previously thought.

    Abstract: An extensive submarine cold-seep area was discovered on the northern shelf of South Georgia during R/V Polarstern cruise ANT-XXIX/4 in spring 2013.

    Hydroacoustic surveys documented the presence of 133 gas bubble emissions, which were restricted to glacially-formed fjords and troughs. Video-based sea floor observations confirmed the sea floor origin of the gas emissions and spatially related microbial mats.

    Effective methane transport from these emissions into the hydrosphere was proven by relative enrichments of dissolved methane in near-bottom waters. Stable carbon isotopic signatures pointed to a predominant microbial methane formation, presumably based on high organic matter sedimentation in this region.

    Although known from many continental margins in the world’s oceans, this is the first report of an active area of methane seepage in the Southern Ocean.

    Our finding of substantial methane emission related to a trough and fjord system, a topographical setting that exists commonly in glacially-affected areas, opens up the possibility that methane seepage is a more widespread phenomenon in polar and sub-polar regions than previously thought.

  • Here’s a great article from NASA.GOV. We’re exactly on track with anthropogenic warming discussed here.

    https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/2014/6

  • Lidia:

    Sorry, I meant only the first half of my sentence to be per Guy. The “misery and checking out” part is mine. But I also meant “checking out” to be a euphemism for “let go or be dragged”, the Zen proverb Guy has used often.

  • .
    @ Tom: thanks for your thoughts. At the end of the day, I know it doesn’t matter. Once you wake up from “The Matrix,” there is no turning back.

    I totally agree with Daniel. Not only will you have to shoot your neighbors, but then you will have to eat them!

    For me, the collapse is not coming soon enough.

  • NEW YORK (AP) — The collapse of talks with U.S. creditors sent Argentina into its second debt default in 13 years and raised questions about what comes next for financial markets and the South American nation’s struggling economy.

    Argentine Economy Minister Axel Kicillof holding firm to his government’s position that it could not accept a deal with U.S. hedge fund creditors it dismisses as “vultures.” “We’re not going to sign an agreement that jeopardizes the future of all Argentines,” Kicillof said after he emerged from the meeting with creditors and a mediator in New York City. “Argentines can remain calm because tomorrow will just be another day and the world will keep on spinning.”

    But court-appointed mediator Daniel Pollack said a default could hurt bondholders who were not part of the dispute as well as the Argentine economy, which is suffering through a recession, a shortage of dollars and one of the world’s highest inflation rates.

    “The full consequences of default are not predictable, but they are certainly not positive,” Pollack said.

  • There’s a lot of information on the topic– and one will find with a little research that there’s some very current modeling out there– but this is a good place to start.

    http://climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/WiresClimateChangeNW.pdf

    From my perspective the pressing problems leading to NTHE would be–

    1) Runaway Climate Change
    2) Resource Scarcity
    3) Population Pressure
    4) Inability to adapt at the societal level due to debt.

    The problem with stopping there with the problem list is to ignore how human beings have always dealt with crisis– and that’s through violence. Would this event be any different? If so, why? I think violence on a global scale is an immediate concern. 15% of the world lives in a war zone right now and that’s expanding.

    The curiosity in this case is that a moderate exchange of nuclear weapons could in fact “cure” all of the above pressure, or at least set their immediacy back by decades, buying a little time. Is it possible for a rational observer to dismiss the idea that the “nuclear option” won’t be exercised? Especially as it’s inevitable and some would argue “beneficial?” It would be very effective and scalable geoengineering– I’m making no value judgements here, or advocating anything– simply attempting to be a dispassionate outside observer. . .

    Now a nuclear winter scenario is potentially a VERY different future than many here are anticipating. . .and while can only be seen as the absolute crudest of remedies to the worlds problems does not necessarily present an ultimate NTHE outcome. It certainly might, but it’s by no means certain. And for a fraction of the population, it’s a completely survivable future if one is adequately prepared and in the right place. By no means easy, of course, but it is survivable for some.

    It’s worth spending some time doing some objective research to see just what’s involved with nuclear warfare, as there’s a whole lot of bad information out there–but the information is there for anyone who might have time and curiosity.

    So what strategy should a thoughtful individual interested in being a benevolent steward of life adopt? Make like Noah, basically. Make the effort to survive to preserve values and knowledge through the event, and bring as much as you can with you as well. Those that survive get to decide what the world will be after the event.

  • Paul C.

    Looking forward to hearing from you. I’ve been mystified by the efforts to reel in the NSA or protect the Fourth Amendment (or whatever) when the super structure is in contradiction to that. OTOH, we hear about judo, and using the enemy’s strength, but that’s not how the resistance operates. 🙂

  • @ Daniel:

    In my opinion, you described the predicament extremely well in your longish 30 July comment. Good work Charlie Brown!

  • @artleads,

    After some pondering, here’s how it looks to me (for now, anyway).

    I see the Gaza situation in terms reminiscent of the theory of social evolution proposed by Andrew Schmookler in his 1984 book, “The Parable of the Tribes”. The bones of the theory are this:

    Imagine a group of tribes living within reach of one another. If all choose the way of peace, then all may live in peace. If one tribe becomes expansionist however, a neighboring tribe faces one of four possible outcomes:

    1. It may be attacked and defeated, its people destroyed and its lands seized for the use of the victors.

    2. It may be defeated and have its people subjugated by the conqueror.

    3. It may flees from the area into some inaccessible (and undesirable) place, and its former homeland becomes part of the growing empire of the power-seeking tribe.

    4. It may arm to defend itself. If it is to be successful in this, it will discard its previous pacifism, and adopt many of the traits of the aggressor tribe.

    Unfortunately, option 3 is not open to the Palestinians – they have nowhere to flee. They have tried armed resistance, but the power balance appears to be too asymmetrical for success. The state of Israel appears bent on forcing one of the first two outcomes, and my suspicion is that they’d be happiest with the first.

    Now, to a first approximation, all wars are about resources – raw materials, energy or land. Those are the basic elements needed to create new social structure. Any society that runs short of resources must find new sources or face dissolution. That applies whether the new sources come at the expense of their previous owners or not (i.e. expansion into virgin territory).

    People who control resources that are coveted by an expansionist neighbor will almost always resist. It’s the way life works among social animals. The greater the threat, the stronger the resistance, leading to the awesome courage you mention.

    Israel’s willingness to use utterly disproportionate force (from the Dahiya Doctrine they are employing in Gaza up to the Samson Option) is the result of much the same dynamics. They perceive an existential threat to their social group and are determined not to give it a toehold.

    All the historical and moral justifications that are painted onto such conflicts are simply social group-integrity techniques (aka political messaging, aka propaganda) and have nothing to do with the actual roots of the conflict’s dynamics.

    At the moment the Palestinian tunnels are simply a weapon of war, not a structural change to their society. If they were to become a structural element (i.e. large numbers of people were to start using them mainly to live in) they would become an inaccessible, undesirable place to flee, and thus satisfy option 3.

    However, a subterranean society cannot exist in isolation from the larger above-ground context. It would need many materials and goods that it couldn’t get except through trade with with the society it’s now living beneath. That means, at the very least, that it must share in the other’s economic activity. And economics is probably the most powerful social structure we have yet created.

    A single society cannot force structural change on the world simply through a change in some of its own modes of existence. The world is an interdependent web, at the national as well as the ecological level. As a result, while the changes may be important and even significant to the society in question, they will not be significant in terms of the larger web.

    IMO the rise in oppression and warfare we are seeing around the world right now is due to a buildup of pressures that can be predicted from Schmookler’s option 3. The Gaza situation is in a sense a microcosm of the planetary situation. The world is now full, and there is no free space left for expansion. Increasing pressure for resources is causing encroachment of all kinds on others, at every level from the individual to the national. Those who are encroached upon have nowhere to flee because the world is full. That creates resistance, and the resistance or its possibility creates oppression.

    I see the NSA as a logical and perhaps even inevitable outcome of the system dynamics of a globalized civilization that is hitting its limits. If we manage rein them in, other similar institutions will arise to fill the need. As natural as night following day…

    Does that address your dilemma?

  • @artleads,

    I’ve replied, but it’s stuck in moderation (too many links). I assume it will be out shortly… right, RE?

  • @ jaywfitz

    Some scientists recently modelled the effects of a nuclear war – I don’t have the link handy, but a search might get it for you – with the resilts for climate, etc.

    I gave it a read. It was based on an exchange between India and Pakistan, if I recall correctly, and weapons of the type used at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. That made me think the whole thing was junk. The Americans and Russians have weapons orders of magnitude greater that those ancient H Bombs.

    Anyway, for sure, a nuclear war, preceded by a conventional war would, or WILL, change the future.

    Here’s some up to date thinking.

    This is my biggest fear: some kind of desperate “Hail Mary” maneuver in which the US will try to convince Russia that “look, we are crazy enough to start this thing, so you better back off” not realizing that Russia cannot back off. The other thing which really scares me is that during the Cuban Missile Crisis everybody was aware of the stakes and most people were truly terrified. Now, thanks to the propaganda of the corporate media, almost nobody is afraid and hardly anybody is paying attention. Russia and the USA are on a clear collision course and nobody cares! How come?

    Because if 9/11 proved anything is that there are things which most people are simply unwilling to contemplate, no matter how close and real they are. It would only make sense that the Empire of Illusion would be populated by a people in total denial. After all, illusion and denial usually go hand in hand.

    http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/thinking-unthinkable.html

  • @Daniel…good to see you back
    You ask “In the context of NTE, what’s the difference between someone who’s 90 per cent self-sufficient from “the system” compared to someone who’s completely dependent on it?”

    How about the former get’s to die with a 90 per cent clearer conscience than the latter! No small thing in IMO.
    Now I don’t dispute much of what you say particularly as you are living where you are, all I can say is at the moment N.Z. is a paradise by comparison, almost empty and awash with food. How long it will remain so is anybody’s guess.
    I’ve already stated I don’t have a lot of guilt for the situation we find ourselves, nor do I claim to be majorly detached from the system at present. The point is I could shut the gate tomorrow and never leave and I could get by very well. Right up to the time I
    couldn’t.
    Reese may be correct in thinking that the last fuel will be used to get as many as possible down to “the lifeboat” and they may not all be gentle hippies. Or the nukes may get us too. But no one knows for sure…yet.
    There’s an option you left off your recent essay on suicide. It’s least admirable form is known as “suicide by cop”; at it’s best it is known as dying for a good cause. I may have more to say about that at a latter date.
    Please excuse the fact that I can’t reply to any response you may make.

  • @ulvfugal–

    I’ve done a lot of reading on that issue over the last year and have come to the conclusion that the “nuclear option” is just about inevitable. As you say, they’ve modeled a number of events(I came across the India/Pakistan one as well, very current.) and the consensus conclusion seems to be that a limited exchange of 50Mt would drop global temperatures 2 degrees C. for the better part of a decade, more or less equally distributed globally. This scenario kill surprisingly few people in the blast zones– but the risk of loss of life due to food shortages due loss of sunlight from the very persistent high altitude dust and soot is another matter. Larger exchanges have large effects, of course– but it doesn’t take a lot of game theory to start to see how things might really play out with human influence. Basically I see that a conflict between India and Pakistan may well be inevitable once water rights become an issue– we’re not certain whether Ukraine still has nukes or not(perhaps neither are others, which is why they might be a bit trigger happy seeing a large unidentified plane approach with a fighter escort)– one might even be able to suggest that there’s forces in the world that would really enjoy seen Iran with nuclear weapons. . .as there’s some convenient scenarios that might play out there too. These are all 50Mt approx. theaters of engagement with persistent conflict. There are others as well.

    Of course the game theory also will inform us that it’s a lot better to shoot first in a resource war– and there’s no point in waiting until it’s completely too late– a detail I’m sure isn’t lost on a lot of world leaders. These observations lead me to the conclusion that the NTHE future won’t likely appear– as the nuclear scenario will show itself first– and the resultant persistent cooling– will at very least defer the main results of a warming world for decades. Not that there won’t be plenty to keep us all busy otherwise. And it’s not far off until the shooting gets started in earnest in a lot(more) places. I’d put the timeframe at less than 5 years, as I simply cannot see how we can stay clear of real resource crisis conflict for much longer than that.

  • @ Wren:

    On July 26 you wrote, “Females do their part in driving the evolution of the species by picking men with power, influence, and resources.” This idea really hit me about a year ago, and I felt surprised to realize it. Then, upon further reflection I realized that patriarchal men in control for millennia probably for the most part created the social situations that produced the women who do their part in creating the global warming, ecological, and nuclear collapse self-annihilation trap. For example, I have often felt shocked by women who strongly support the Abrahamic religions. I think that the patriarchal religions largely produced these supportive women; I don’t think that the women produced the patriarchal Abrahamic religions. I expect that the same principle extends into politics and economics.

  • @ Paul C.

    “4. It may arm to defend itself. If it is to be successful in this, it will discard its previous pacifism, and adopt many of the traits of the aggressor tribe.”

    I’d see this more easily if the full, overheated, water depleted, economically teetering world weren’t so immediately upon us, or if war weren’t ensuing everywhere with such serious portent. I don’t see the time to overcome the oppressor and take on his traits. In short, the world is full booth in physical terms and in terms of events.

    And since the Gazans have no place to go, they will fight to the last child. Strategic timing and location must also be considered. Those prevail.

    From interviews I’ve listened to, there’s a sense that something (whatever it is) is different this time, and that the old formulae you listed won’t apply this time. There seems not to be the time or space for that.

    As to he imbalance of power, that has to be questioned too. Malcolm Gladwell wrote a much maligned book called (I think) David and Goliath. (At least, that will bring it up in a search.) Goliath is portrayed, based on historical research, as perhaps being visually impaired. His armor was cumbersome. David was not only extremely flexible by contrast, but also extremely skilled with his sling. He was a shepherd, and used hi sling continually to protect his flock. If there was to be a modern version of that story I think Israel/Gaza would be it.

    I see some similarities with KXL pipeline. Stopping it will do little to change the dynamic of pollution and warming. But it would mark the first time there was ever a significant push back against the FF industry. If that could be done in spite of Koch money and every kind of viperous opposition, then anything could be done.

    “At the moment the Palestinian tunnels are simply a weapon of war, not a structural change to their society. If they were to become a structural element (i.e. large numbers of people were to start using them mainly to live in) they would become an inaccessible, undesirable place to flee, and thus satisfy option 3.”

    Not necessarily so, I don’t think. But you may disagree. It depends on the aims and strategies of he struggle. Maybe the Gazans won’t and shouldn’t settle for a mole-like existence. But even as a means to adapt to climate change, considerable underground construction will be required.

    “However, a subterranean society cannot exist in isolation from the larger above-ground context.”

    Gazans have no choice but to go underground, or at least they’d be crazy not to. And the more destructive the Israeli assault, the more the need for it. My point has been that every move by the oppressor demands a counter move by the victim. The harder they come, the harder they fall. The fiercer the bombing the less the resistance to moving below.

    Every Israeli household has an underground shelter. That is not only good for defense, but also good for climate change. The government can’t see what they do down there, so if they choose to defect and join ranks with the Gazans, they are well on the way to having the means already. IF all they do is trade underground with the Gazans, and there is no violence, the risk to themselves might not be utterly horrendous. Its a question of taking the matter seriously and getting organized. All kinds of people defended the Jews from the Nazis. Now here’s the time for Jews to pay something back. You never know. The Israeli government is not yet comparable to the Nazis afaik. Not yet. No time to dawdle.

    “It would need many materials and goods that it couldn’t get except through trade with the society it’s now living beneath.”

    I tried to address that above.

    “That means, at the very least, that it must share in the other’s economic activity. And economics is probably the most powerful social structure we have yet created.”

    An “underground” economy at first, can lead to more open trade. The Israelis will have to decide whether they want that or they want war instead.

    “A single society cannot force structural change on the world simply through a change in some of its own modes of existence. The world is an interdependent web, at the national as well as the ecological level. As a result, while the changes may be important and even significant to the society in question, they will not be significant in terms of the larger web.”

    I see what happens in Palestine as affecting (one way or another) what happens throughout the entire region. The alternative to a livable outcome there is something I can’t imagine. Nuclear holocaust? Total genocide?

    “I see the NSA as a logical and perhaps even inevitable outcome of the system dynamics of a globalized civilization that is hitting its limits. If we manage rein them in, other similar institutions will arise to fill the need. As natural as night following day…

    Does that address your dilemma?”

    I certainly appreciate your thoughts, Paul C. Nice to be able to discuss the subject calmly. I have much to learn and consider.

  • Wednesday, July 30, 2014
    ‘Catastrophic’: Hedge fund billionaire Paul Singer warns of EMP

    “Rep. Yvette Clarke (D-NY) – a senior figure in the House Homeland Security Committee: “The Likelihood of a severe geo-magnetic event capable of crippling our electric grid is 100%.””

  • Seems the McPherson suicide cult is still hard at it’s fundamentalist belief in doom. LOL!

    Meanwhile, record cold is reality:
    http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/07/31/more-on-the-record-us-cold/

    And Paul Singer is a complete doofus. The sun does not put out “EMP,” the sun puts out CME. And it won’t destroy civilization. We have satellites, and will get a 5 day warning, and avoiding disaster is easy:
    http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=229251

    Suicide cults are hilariously stupid.

  • Robin: add to that (which has always been the case) this visitation coming tomorrow – http://spaceweather.com/

    MINOR STORM WARMING: A CME is heading for Earth. The cloud was hurled into space on July 30th when a magnetic filament on the sun erupted, and it appears to be on course to sideswipe Earth’s magnetic field. NOAA forecasters estimate a 30% chance of polar geomagnetic storms on Aug. 2nd when the CME arrives.

    Closer to home on he following linked page are 4 articles in a row on the ebola virus WHICH IS NOW IN THE U.S.

    http://robinwestenra.blogspot.co.nz/2014/08/ebola-developing-story.html

    [from the 2nd story]

    According to many MSM, and Alternative news reports, Emory University Hospital in Atlanta Georgia is setting up a special Isolation unit to accommodate a patient that has contracted the deadly Ebola disease within the next few days.

    Emory Healthcare to treat Ebola patient

    Emory University Hospital is expected to receive a patient infected with the deadly Ebola virus within the next several days, the university announced Thursday.

    Be sure to read up on the risks – this is a new strain and has novel characteristics, according to specialists studying it.

    “What we suspect is happening is large droplets; they can stay in the air, but not long; they don’t go far,” he explained. “But they can be absorbed in the airway, and this is how the infection starts, and this is what we think, because we saw a lot of evidence in the lungs of the non-human primates that the virus got in that way.”
    [from another article on the same page]

  • Although yes, the name of Jesus (or Mohammed, but I don’t know enough about him) is use as the reason for many an inhumane and unethical actions, I find it unfair to blame the man (or the figure) himself.
    Simply reading Mathew and John (excluding the other parts of the bible) reveals not someone advocating the revenge theology but rather someone advocating self reflection, self compassion and forgiveness.
    Just sayin’

  • Dee,

    And if you read the Gospel of Q, that makes him sound like a Zen master.
    A Christian’s image of Jesus is the image of their own heart.

  • @Paul Chefurka: A scientist’s image of the future is the image of their own heart.

    “Coldest July On Record”
    http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/08/01/much-of-arkansas-just-completed-their-coolest-july-on-record/

    So much for Bishop McPherson’s hellfire’n’brimstone preachin’ that “climate will fry.”

    The only thing fried is Bishop McPherson’s brain. He’s just another self-tormented John Calvin, projecting the inner torment in his heart onto others.

    “Forever harrassed with a dreadful tempest, they shall feel themselves torn asunder by an angry God, and transfixed and penetrated by mortal stings, terrified by the thunderbolts of God, and broken by the weight of his hand, so that to sink into any gulf would be more tolerable than to stand for a moment in these terrors.” – John Calvin

  • Holy Crap!!! Toppletop Geardom thinks Arkansas is bigger than the entire planet!! He’s confused global warming with local weather and has no clue how far his head is up his ass.

    Whew! Always a relief when someone From the Other Side stops by to say utterly meaningless things while patting themselves on the back for being so clever. I also see that Topple thinks it takes five days for the light and the heat of the sun to reach earth.

    Topple dear, why not put all your thoughts in a letter to yourself that you won’t open for ten years? Then in 2024 you can see just how right you were about everything and spring it on us then? T-shirt deals, movies, tv shows are sure to follow.

  • A husband and wife were talking one night. The husband was on his fourth or fifth bottle of beer. The wife then says, “Honey I notice you drink four or five bottles of beer every evening of every day. Now I did the math and did you know that after ten years you could have bought yourself a new car?” The husband then replies, “So where’s your new car?”

  • I’ve posted another couple of questions, along with links to a couple interviews. Catch it here.

  • Daniel said:
    “The fantasy that there will somehow be any number of people peacefully tending to their crops, garden beds, green houses, permaculture zones and animal husbandry while the world literally burns, is so absurd”

    I agree with you that as protection against what is coming, growing ones own food is not likely to save anyone, but eating food is always about “now”. If you grow some of your own food you need less money. If you need less money you have more control over how and where you spend your time.

    Most of the people that I spend time with are homesteaders of one sort or the other and sharing my time with them is always more peaceful and productive then the when I step out into the larger culture.

    For me, trying to find ways to feel the pleasure of existence despite being aware of what we have brought on ourselves, is a hard task that has to be renewed daily.

    Growing food helps with that and it provides really delicious,healthy things to eat,exercise, vitamin D,companionship with wildlife,etc.
    And depending one collapses timeline,it might continue to do that for some years to come.

    The discussions here have turned to different ways to cope with extinctions.How to accept,how to have some peace. For alot of people gardening helps with that.

    And we all gotta eat ’till we can’t.

  • @Bud Nye:
    🙂 I so enjoy your postings here… articulate and illuminating.
    And thanks for your interesting thoughts on patriarchy.

    You’re right, maybe the early patriarchs only selected females who supported their world view, and somehow ‘eliminated’ most of the dissenters….
    In my life, I have been harassed by logging trucks, threatened at public hearings, and shot at by a hunter who was poaching. All males. To be honest, they would love to see me dead. But I know that their wives hated me just as much or more so, for all the same reasons, but especially for not ‘joining’ their church.

    I have seen these women raise both their sons and daughters to be hardened, insensitive brutes, with both fear and hatred of the Feminine. This includes an attitude towards ‘nature’ and animals somewhere between callous and cruel. The act of littering is considered a rite of passage. The whole mindset is one of cultural psychosis, handed down father to child, and mother to child. This is just what I’ve obseved in my own small community. Is ‘patriarchy’ the right word for this disease? I’m not sure.

    I agree that the Abrahamic religions have extended the reach of patriarchy to the grave and beyond. What an amazing tool of control, kind of like the cordyceps fungi which invades the brain and then controls the behavior of the host!

    @Sabine:
    😉 Yes, great ‘opportunities’ for women opened up, and further fueled the fires of destruction by doubling the number of termites devouring the tree of life!
    ~