NTHE Questions #5 and #6

What would Planet Earth have been like if Homo sapiens female had been genetically similar to female praying mantises or female black widow spiders (i.e., practicing sexual cannibalism)?

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Assume you are politically omnipotent and can convince everyone on Earth that human extinction is assured in decades … what activities or projects, if any, would you persuade humanity to engage in, or disengage from? Why would it be worthwhile? Would it transcend or depreciate futility?

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McPherson’s forthcoming book is co-authored by Carolyn Baker. Extinction Dialogs: How to Live with Death in Mind has been submitted to the publisher and is scheduled for release before 1 October 2014.

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Comments 95

  • question 5 re. ‘what if females killed males after mating?’… a couple nights ago, listening to the radio, lou reed’s old hit ‘walk on the wildside’ played. such a cool song, i decided to learn more about it. turns out that song talked about andy warhol ‘superstars’, mostly drag queens… anyhow, that led to my learning that a crazy woman named valerie solanis tried to kill warhol, nearly succeeded. she’d been abused as a kid, homeless, resorted to prostitution and begging, and developed an all consuming hatred for men. wrote a manifesto titled SCUM, which later became an acronym standing for ‘society for cutting up men’.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCUM_Manifesto

    as a ‘radical feminist, she’s been taken quite seriously by some… imo, irregardless of the omnicidal lunatic society we live in, or i should say irregardless of it’s omnicidal nature, the fact that it produces such abuse and hatred, a hatred that despite it’s lunacy is embraced by a significant fringe element, including perhaps the anonymous author of the above question… kind of makes me not so sad that we’re facing extinction. i’m tired of misandry, of oblivious women (and perhaps some men) who demonize everyone with a penis, never taking into account the ‘blame’/accountability women may have for favoring men as mates who are the most ruthless ‘winners’, accumulators of wealth and power… i know it’s just the way things are, but it totally sucks.

    as for q. 6, i see no point in engaging in pointless conjecture… what if u could be god? well, no one is god, so fuck it!

  • Not all males find or want a mate. What about them? And what about the human males that prefer other males. What about younger males that haven’t mated, yet?

  • In solitary mammals such as bears, the male often plays no role in child-rearing, but in social mammals the males often do have an important role. Cannibalism is usually limited to the out-group, as occasionally noted in chimpanzees. Females mammals (and in other taxa throughout the animal kingdom) tend to be bigger when not dependent on males. Absence of such dependence and cooperation is usually a characteristic of solitary modes of life. Such a preference for solitary living would preclude the development of community, society and technology among humans.

    If everyone can be convinced of NTHE, then too, it would continue to be “Suchness”/”Thusness”. Everything being just as it should/would/could be. Including one’s actions and inactions. The question arises from a different perspective, which also motivates acting with expectations, in this case with the expectation to effect “change”.

  • Q5?

    Of all the questions that someone can ask themselves pertaining to NTE, this person wants to know what the world might have been like if women ate men after breeding?

    Seriously?

    I don’t know, what if instead of opposable thumbs we developed elephant trunks or bat wings?

    Q6?

    A wholesale reassessment of the meaning of life and death. Stop making money. Default on all debt. Become homeless. Gift all your time and energy to growing food. Practice long term fasting. If you have already lived a good long life, maybe it’s time to move on. Live by the motto: I will gladly kill myself before I harm another.

  • @the virgin terry

    “…taking into account the ‘blame’/accountability women may have for favoring men as mates who are the most ruthless ‘winners’, accumulators of wealth and power… ”

    There is a flip side to that Terry. Many women (I would argue more)favor men as mates who are kind, smart, caring, devoted, etc. Let us not forget to acknowledge them.

  • Question #5-

    Hahaha, funny question!
    The present ‘division of labor’ between the sexes is that the males contribute resources, control of the territory that provides these resources, and protection of the same. This gives females the latitude to focus on multiplying and successfully raising more humans. This is the definition of “biological success” – raising offspring to maturity.

    If the males were used solely as sperm donors, Whether they were eaten afterwards or not, the females would still have the same needs, but would have to provide them all on their own.

    Maybe, like ants, who are all female except for the winged ‘drones’, there would be a division of labor based on ability or inclination…. soldiers, foragers, queens, nursery attendants, etc. And keep in mind that ants – excluding the males who sit around until the mating flight (like bees), do have wars over territory and resources, and also take slaves. I think a female dominate human society would most likely pan out this way too. So forget any feminist utopia.

    @ apneaman –
    True…. so don’t worry, we won’t eat you! 🙂
    But personally, I don’t know any women who are willing to even Consider dating men who are homeless, much less partner up with them.
    The women in my immediate family tree picked kind, sensitive, artistic, and smart men, and were so happy that, for the most part, totally forgot to reproduce! Having way too much fun!! Maybe that’s why I have no relatives!
    😉

  • When I read question 5 I immediately thought it a completely stupid question, and clearly of no relevance. I see that others agree. Homo sapiens would not have evolved as a ‘successful’ species ‘if Homo sapiens female had been genetically similar to female praying mantises or female black widow spiders (i.e., practicing sexual cannibalism)’ and would have died out in one generation if for some reason such a characteristic became [temporarily] established.

    Question 6 is also rather stupid because if human extinction is assured, then so is the extinction of practically all other vertebrate life, and, by implication, there is no point in attempting to do doing anything to save anything. I suppose you could get everyone doped up and persuade them to fight amongst themselves. A big and fast population reduction would make life more pleasant for the few humans who got through the first bottleneck, along with the remnants of the natural world, and would reduce the overall level of suffering But we’ve almost got that already {populace of crazed humans who fight amongst themselves].

  • Regarding the first question – we’re essentially there with so many households headed by females. This is especially the case in African American communities with the epidemic of black on black violence and mass incarceration of young black men. Many women are quite capable of raising a family with a male (or another female) to share the parenting duties. Ideally though, I believe it’s better to have both parents involved in the child rearing process.

    Regarding the 2nd question. I’d advise people to engage in vegetarianism and disengage in procreation. GET STERILIZED PEOPLE! It’s inhumane to bring children into the world knowing the horror that’s coming.

  • If she just rips out and devours your heart does that still count?

  • I think the question was asking — what if only women were left to run the world?
    Well, it might have turned out better — less competition, more cooperation. Less war,
    more negotiation. Definitely more talking.

    I really don’t know, personally — I haven’t had a lot of success grokking women (or humans in general :-)). Women seem to make different mistakes than men, but maybe not fewer.

    One nice thing about growing elderly — the sexual dimorphism lessens, and you see more clearly who we ALL are.

  • Strange question. that first one. The second is difficult. I think that it would be important to come together as a species and do what we can to assure that at least a few will survive, that the great libraries would survive, and that solar power could keep our short wave radios going. Yes, the southern hemisphere is the right place. Overpopulated, for NTHE, so I’d save the effort needed to get there.

    In the first step I’d encourage eliminating wasted energy since energy, esp oil, will be essential for survival. I’d abandon the low lying coastal areas and stock up a bit on non-perishables.

    Living a life of excellence seems to be quite worthwhile. What a way to go!

    I really want to see how this all unwinds and yet I’m ready to check out if necessary. I feel a debt to my grandchildren and great grand-kids. Yet, I can’t do much other than to keep them from being blindsided by all this.

    I warned my son not to have kids. He thought I was nuts, if I recall correctly. There’s much more, but learning better how to dance gracefully with uncertainty, to become more flexible and resilient.

  • Thanks, Apneaman – you gave me a much-needed laugh!

  • #5: Assuming this is meant to create a female dominated society, but instead of Amazons, which might make more sense, the females are insects, then I suppose the world would look like a hive. I dunno.

    #6: If I were King of the World and everyone listened to me and I told them that society was going to consume itself, the planet and kill everyone in a short period of time, I don’t think I would be King for much longer. You don’t gain “political omnipotence” by being a teller of truths, do you? Once again, I dunno.

  • #5: If HS had practiced sexual cannibalism, HS would not have been HS. This question is merely a provocation to more male bashing posting here on NBL.

    #6: If Extinction is a GUARANTEE, there is no point in doing any works of any kind. Nobody will be around to see them, and they will all be vaporized when the Sun goes Red Giant anyhow.

    The only effort with any point to it is the effort NOT to go extinct, whether the battle is futile or not.

    Meanwhile Bombs of Democracy are dropping once again on Iraq and the rest of the IS Caliphate.

    http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/2014/08/09/bombs-of-democracy-a-failure-to-communicate/

    RE

  • If men were only inseminators and a meal, well, we’d be a different species, and much would be different, we might even have gossamer wings. Not sure how we get there from here.

    If extinction was certain, and everyone knew it, what would I want the last human activities to be? I’d want to see humans leverage the crisis and take the quantum leap to enlightenment — to compassionate comprehension. Then acting from that lofty perspective. Considering the suffering caused by every act and seeking the least harmful way. Then we would naturally stop the war machines. Naturally stop exploitation of humans and other animals. Naturally consider each other with care and compassion, without weak self-absorbed insecure domineering and other embarrassing manifestations of spiritually juvenile stages of development. If extinction was certain… but, could we take that leap if extinction wasn’t certain and well known? Would that make the critical difference? Sadly, without the impetus of death, there is no attention to enlightenment. Is it still even possible to avoid extinction, or have tipping points tipped, and indeed is doom certain no matter what we do now? That is the central question. Scientific indicators are gloomy. Trends are ominous. The darkest clouds we’ve ever seen tower on the horizon. The signals are clear. Isn’t it time? Leap.

    Regarding the criticism of FriedrichKling in a previous thread: I just can’t see how anyone justifies attacking a person who is at least trying to do some good. That is just insane. Would these detractors applaud someone who does evil? …or nothing? How did things ever get so twisted? Or, perhaps these people want to do good but feel powerless and intensely frustrated and jealous… so they attack with contempt and cynicism. Have they become so ill and deranged and defeated by a sense of futility that they can’t find enough strength and clarity to appreciate anyone else’s positive efforts? If we were all a bit more like Don Quixote, we might have already killed what some say are just windmills… we might have discovered that they were real dragons all along. As I’ve always said, we might as well try. Some apparently think it’s better to just lay down and die. Maybe they are toxic and tired and need a good draft of antidote and elixir. I celebrate the brave who endeavor against all odds, who fearlessly face reality. Who calculate courage by needs, not probabilities.

  • @Larry Menkes “I think that it would be important to come together as a species and do what we can to assure that at least a few will survive, that the great libraries would survive, and that solar power could keep our short wave radios going.”

    I know a lot of people share that view. This is understandable given that it’s our own species we’re talking about! For me though, the human species continuing survival isn’t important. To that end I’m deliberately childless and urge all others to not have children,if only to spare them from the horror that’s soon to ensue.

    I would like all other life forms to continue on. However, it’s not going to work out that way. It’s likely only bacteria and other simple life forms will survive runaway climate change. Unfortunately there won’t be enough time for more complex life to re-emerge before the sun expands and engulfs Earth.

  • ‘In solitary mammals such as bears, the male often plays no role in child-rearing, but in social mammals the males often do have an important role. Cannibalism is usually limited to the out-group, as occasionally noted in chimpanzees. Females mammals (and in other taxa throughout the animal kingdom) tend to be bigger when not dependent on males. Absence of such dependence and cooperation is usually a characteristic of solitary modes of life. Such a preference for solitary living would preclude the development of community, society and technology among humans.’

    damn, datta, i wish i was a walking encyclopedia like u! meat robot encyclopedia damned (literally!) datta! lol, if u like. u’re good. and spot on topic. much better response than mine, but that’s nothing new.

    ‘Q6?

    A wholesale reassessment of the meaning of life and death. Stop making money. Default on all debt. Become homeless. Gift all your time and energy to growing food. Practice long term fasting. If you have already lived a good long life, maybe it’s time to move on. Live by the motto: I will gladly kill myself before I harm another.’

    another superior response from daniel. again, nothing new.

    ‘Many women (I would argue more)favor men as mates who are kind, smart, caring, devoted, etc. Let us not forget to acknowledge them.’

    apneaman, no doubt that’s true. but i think they are genetically programmed to prefer other practical (to survival) traits even more, like ability to provide and protect. i’m deficient in more ways than one, in those regards. as i’ve expressed previously (maybe not to u), it sucks to suck! it’s why i have a bit of a chip on my shoulder (maybe more like a boulder (hey, it rhymes)) and sometimes take offense easily. dish it out as well. (how’s that for self indulgence? too much? way too much!?)

    i’m sorry to the posers of questions 5 and 6. i suck! sometimes.

    ‘Maybe, like ants, who are all female except for the winged ‘drones’, there would be a division of labor based on ability or inclination…. soldiers, foragers, queens, nursery attendants, etc. And keep in mind that ants – excluding the males who sit around until the mating flight (like bees), do have wars over territory and resources, and also take slaves. I think a female dominate human society would most likely pan out this way too. So forget any feminist utopia.’

    another great response to 5, this time from wren! thanks for pointing this out.

    in fact, i think all the posts thus far down to grant’s a little more than an hour ago have been rewarding reading. thanks to all the rest not mentioned above.

    dig billy joel when he had big hair and great musicians behind him, singing one of his signature songs:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_sgmQDU3Rs

  • Here’s 2 more apropos Billy Joel Tunes for NBL & the Diner. I use both often.

    RE

  • Thanks Tom. Volume II coming up as soon as the original becomes a best seller. Very soon, I’m sure. Bwahahaha.
    ==

    Sexual Cannibalism

    If women thought it benign
    That after sex they so dine:
    To not be surprised,
    Men would be well advised
    To confine sex to porn sites online.

  • Tom, sorry to hear about your dog.

  • what activities or projects, if any, would you persuade humanity to engage in, ??????????????????????????????????
    The obvious one is stop having children
    What else is there !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111

  • Q: #5 What would Planet Earth have been like if Homo sapiens female had been genetically similar to female praying mantises or female black widow spiders?

    A: You mean they’re not? OK- I grew up in the States, so maybe my view is skewed.

    Q: #6 What activities or projects, if any, would you persuade humanity to engage in?

    A: First, I would burn all governing structures to the ground, since the result of their existence and practice has been total disaster and suicidal failure. To whit, follow Bela Eiko’s precept to “burn every f’king thing to the ground except the houses so that people would understand that they don’t need this system.” And follow my old to do list: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-r0qow-NlWYk/U8iYwEX_zqI/AAAAAAAADhI/fKb_Y99epps/s1600/list531250_10151199020353107_328958998_n.jpg

    Second, even if it’s hopeless, try to jet out and terraform Mars. Check Europa for possible support. And in a long shot, see if Titan has any beachfront real estate. So what if it is hopeless, gotta try.

    Three, set up 24/7 funeral pyres so that {cough}{hack}{spit} all the people who constantly repeat as a mantra and a prayer to Mephistopheles that “all humanity” is vicious, violent, stupid, psychotic and self-destructive (you know who they are) can go ahead and jump in there.

    Four, I would burn down all the Buddhist and Hindu temples, Christian Churches, Islamic Mosques since all they’ve done up to now is create legions of fascists. I would make Vine Deloria Jr’s “God is Red” required reading for anyone left standing.

    Five, Anyone over 30, you know, all the cats who dumped well outside the litter box, would be removed from positions of authority and power and give decisions over to the kids.

    Cheers and good day

  • in my comment 3 hours ago, i failed to state that i hadn’t read any other comments yet beyond the that one made by grant, so as not to possibly wrongly imply that the next comment which happened to be from RE, wasn’t rewarding reading.

    rob atack, thanks for pointing out something so obvious we tend sometimes to overlook it (don’t procreate!).

  • ?#5

    a) Organized religions would have evolved differently.
    For example, in Catholicism:
    Il Papa would be La Papa (or La Mama or La Madre).
    The celebrated Nativity might be that of Mary Magdelene.
    The Church would not alloy itself with firearms-based militaries…
    because, of course, saltpeter would be a banned substance.

    b) The idiom “the little death” would be ironic and euphemistic.
    The idiom “one night stand” would be neither.

    c) Republicans (aye, and others) would be pro-choice radicals.

    d) Christie Hefner would have kept Playboy’s name, reversed the gender focus…
    and merged with Epicure, Gourmet, and Bon Appetit.

    e) The works of Wm. Burroughs and Jean Genet would be samizdat.
    Camille Paglia would be a heretic.
    Kathy Acker would have been a real pirate.

    f) Yohimbine would be a sacramental substance.


    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    ?#6
    Other than reduce suffering, increase compassion, and minimize the number of other species that we take down with us – yeah, try to get some humans to Mars.
    It’s a long shot, but not as long a shot as relying on solar-powered cryogenic preservation equipment with labels that say “Please do not open for 200,000 years”. It’s too late for some of the “what if” scenario below, but not for all of it.

    Would it be worthwhile and transcend (f)utility ?
    Getting there might be exactly why we’re here.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlrKW7fh_Bo

  • 5. Presumably the point is that it’d be the same as now – the way our world works is akin to us devouring our females figuratively (the mothers who give birth to us, including the planet).

    6. I think the quality of one’s life is what matters. You can only play the hand you’ve been dealt with – it’s HOW you play it that matters. This is different for each person, but for me it is following my passions, living and loving, and living in the now, and going with the flow.

    Freud was right about the conflict between the unconscious and conscious and while I do believe integration is possible, people don’t seem to want to it (as Freud observed). We are our own worst enemies (see answer to question #5 above). I think being true to oneself is hard. Putting yourself in situations that are outside of your comfort zone gives you practice but it seems the world is becoming more and more segregated (based on ideologies).

  • the virgin terry: It is quite uncommon to have someone (like you) who gets the concept of the meat robot. The objections to it arise from human hubris.

  • logspirit says: “Regarding the criticism of FriedrichKling in a previous thread: I just can’t see how anyone justifies attacking a person who is at least trying to do some good. That is just insane. Would these detractors applaud someone who does evil? …or nothing?”

    Please address me directly. I clearly stated that King’s move was completely futile — doing nothing in effect, and commented upon that.
    He’s “saving” 14,500 acres in “perpetuity”. And for only $44,000!
    For just a few dollars more, we could turn the entire planet into a natural park. Why not?

    Of course, just like the natural parks now, timber will be allowed. And mining. No reason to keep the fracking wells out. And we’ll need roads for the trucks coming and going. Plus there will be tourists, so we’ll want hotels and restaurants. People need to get there, so we’ll need cars, trains and airplanes. And the support system for that…

    But other than that, it will be just like paradise.

    It would be far more effective in “planet saving” if someone could spend $44,000 to have the Koch brothers murdered. If that’s too much since All Life is Sacred or whatever, you could start slashing tires on SUVs. Unless all forms of violence, including violence against machines is forbidden. You could perhaps try pissing in the wind and enjoy a warm rain. Just be sure to tell everyone how much better you are than they are for doing so.

  • #5 ?

    #6 Perhaps begin by changing our behavior (from working within ourselves) then making amends wherever and whenever possible – not seeking to “gain” any longer, but instead to share what each of us has with those that need in whatever way is chosen. I doubt this will happen on the large scale in the limited time left, but that’s what i’m pursuing.

    Ben: thanks for your thought and another great limerick.

    I have a question or two to add to the list [with the condensed version beside it]:

    What is there when our conscious connection to a carcass no longer exists? [Can consciousness perceive “nothingness?”]

    What do you think humanity was to accomplish, do, become, achieve by existing? [What’s reality?]

    Thanks again to Guy for providing this site and to all who post here.
    I appreciate your various perspectives and learn from many of you.

  • Wester: glad you’re still around and appreciate your answer to #6.

    Everyone: please enjoy this while contemplating my second question above.

    http://www.theburningplatform.com/

    Fearless, Foolhardy, or Foolish?

    [quote, and a nod to the Gypsy voyager tribe]

    Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn’t do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbor, catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
    ~ Mark Twain

  • @ Robin Datta

    It is quite uncommon to have someone (like you) who gets the concept of the meat robot. The objections to it arise from human hubris.

    You puffed up sanctimonius pseudo-hindu twat, the objections do NOT ‘arise from human hubris’ AT ALL, they arise because it is firstly, scientifically, RUBBISH, that you learned in the US Army, because they taught you WATSON and SKINNER Behaviorism, which has been obsolete since the 1950s but is still favoured by backward right-wing nasty fascistic schools of thought, who like to see human beings and animals as MACHINES, as many scientists have, all the way back to PAVLOV, who did the most disgusting and cruel experiments imaginable on children, and dogs.

    All of Behaviourism was thoroughly discredited by Noam Chomsky, in the 1950s, which is why he is the most cited scientist in history, and can get away with criticising America’s Foreign Policy, in as much as he does so.

    The fact that you continue to plug that ancient nonsense, that goes all the way back to Descartes, as if it was relevant, when it’s as ridiculous as Phrenology, is I suppose, no suprise, seeing as you plug ancient mystical junk from the thousands of year old Vedas, as if it had some sort of scientific veracity, and then you mix it up with some Ray Kurzweil gobbledegook and hocus pocus and try and sell it as ‘wisdom’. WHICH IT IS NOT.

    Secondly, it is rubbish, because any reasonably sensitive intelligent compassionate observer, can see that other human beings are much more than meat robots, just as they can see that dogs, cats, birds, are much more than mere machines.

    Only fools like yourself who follow idiotic dogma refuse to acknowledge what is apparent to little children, that people and animals are conscious sentient beings with souls, not meat robots or machines.

    Of course, being indoctrinated with your obscene dogma, makes it much easier to abuse and kill them, doesn’t it, and to treat all living things with the contempt and disdain you sometimes display, from your superior lofty perch posing as a ‘wise’ guru.

  • @Bud

    I ran across this talk on NPR this morning that speaks to your comment to me on the last post: ” I don’t know about any research concerning this, but reflecting on the little I know of anthropology and history, I think that human supremacism has, much more likely than not, included most, if not all, racial groups.”

    http://www.npr.org/2013/05/31/175619007/is-the-world-a-less-violent-place

    The speaker’s book is here: https://www.amazon.com/Better-Angels-Our-Nature-Violence/dp/0143122010/ref=la_B000AQ3GGO_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1407673905&sr=1-2

    It discusses decreased violence as the history proceeds. Thought you might be interested. It makes your point.

    My answer to you was that I focus on the current situation (Beginning in 1492) and not the whole of existence in this world.

    Also, whenever I look at Amazon I ALWAYS read the one star comments.

    Here is one that supports my case. (Please go to a one star rating by Wester with 25 responses.)

    A very complicated subject.

    shep

  • Meant to add this for @BUD.

    By Wester – See all my reviews
    This review is from: The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined (Hardcover)
    My opinion is that Pinker is more than a bit naive. He obviously lives and works in the USA in a position of privilege and comfort and reflects the American perspective to a great degree. He therefore propounds many wonderful and lovely thoughts that many less well-placed humans on the planet would find hopelessly credulous. My biggest gripe is that the economic foundation of current society receives short shrift. By definition, our capitalist order rips away as much of the productivity of human labor as is possible for profit. To discount the violence to individuals and communities in this context of current affairs is a little bit naive. If you ask a Bahraini, Iraqi, or Congolese scholar about violence, my guess is you’ll get a quite different take. Ask a Haitain or Chinese sweatshop worker about the violence of being paid $3-$4 for a 14 hour work day. Ask Indian farmers about the violence of debt slavery that leads to suicide plagues. Ask Filipinos and Cambodians about the decline in sex slavery. Ask a Chilean, Bolivian or Indonesian economist about having your country’s future sold off into debt at outrageously inflated prices for the benefit of dictators and multinational corporations and sent to offshore bank accounts. Just because they don’t go in an beat the workers and citizens over the head with clubs on a daily basis doesn’t mean it’s not violence, and to make generalizations implying otherwise is a blinkered analysis.
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  • Pinker is much worse than ‘a bit naive’, he’s the worst kind of establishment shill, a tenured professor who brings out a really bad book every year or two, full of lies, distortions, mistakes, nonsense, that is designed specifically to pander to the 1%, who then rave about it, and promote it through their media outlets, so Pinker gets lots of publicity and sales, and the propaganda that he writes gets spread around throughout the world. I expect that one day he will hang from a lamp post, like the corrupt bankers and mendacious politicians and the rest of the scum who keep this monstrous system going.

  • Tom:
    “Can consciousness perceive “nothingness?””

    Yes. Consciousness has no content besides itself, and is thereby able to perceive without distortion. It is self-effulgent, needing no other source of illumination for self awareness. It has no spatiotemporal boundaries, and even nothingness is not outside its extent. The Void (Sunyata), the Boundless Void (Ain Sof) are the source of all, consciousness not excepted.

    As the Hymn of Creation begins:
    “Then even nothingness was not, nor existence”.

    “What’s reality?”

    That which cannot be negated in the three domains of time, past, present and future. (Nor constrained by space).

  • #5: If Mother Nature had decided that the HS female to male ratio will be 100/1, she would have been kinder to the planet. Unfortunately, in her equality good intentions she fucked up.

    #6: I would decree that everyone spend their last days enjoying good food, good wine and good sex – certainly a way to lead a life of excellence.

  • Tom, in response to your questions (and this is only my opinion):

    a. Nothing.

    b. Love.

    That’s written somewhat tongue in cheek, but regarding (a) I do think once the network connectivity is gone then whatever is contained that represents the network is also gone. There’s no independent *human* consciousness outside of our physical bodies.

    Regarding your second and rather interesting question, I think humanity itself would say humans have accomplished good and bad (in order to really answer your question). Good and bad (morals) are human creations as far as we know, and whatever falls under the label “good” and “bad” varies between people. In any event, to answer your question, some people would say that whatever humans have done that they consider good is what they were to accomplish.

    I’d say humans asking the sorts of questions being asked now is what they were to accomplish – i.e., self-examination and self-understanding is the goal. The universal system examines itself by creating subsystems that allow it to operate on and examine itself and we are one such example.

    But your question implies that there must be an answer, i.e., that humans are supposed to accomplish something. Why would that be the case? I’d say what humans have accomplished is what humanity was to accomplish — i.e., it is what it is.

  • “There’s no independent *human* consciousness outside of our physical bodies.”

    Or inside. For that matter, consciousness is not “human” any more than sunlight has the shape of a flower or a leaf.

    “once the network connectivity is gone then whatever is contained that represents the network is also gone”

    Very true. Conscious awareness is not any part of any network, any more than nuclear fusion of hydrogen to helium is any part of the reflecting surface of water in a bucket. Consciousness does not belong to meat robots; meat robots are illuminated by consciousness.

    References include the Drik Drishya Viveka, The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, the Taittriya Upanishad, Astavakra Gita, Atma Bodha, amongst others. The ones quoted can be found online.

  • Ram: okay! However, there are questions to which themselves cause the breakdown of our thought processes and cause us to go to another “level” as with zen koans.

    Here’s another example of an “answer” to the second

    http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/space/stories/our-universe-may-have-emerged-from-a-black-hole-in-a-higher-dimensional

    Our universe may have emerged from a black hole in a higher-dimensional universe

    The cosmos as we know it might be nothing more than a three-dimensional ‘mirage’ created by a collapsing star in a universe profoundly different than our own.

    [quote]

    According to the researchers’ newly proposed theory, however, our universe was never inside a singularity. Rather, it arose outside the event horizon of a black hole — a black hole from another, higher-dimensional universe. It was thus protected from the singularity.

    Though it’s a difficult concept to wrap the mind around, this new idea is just one level up from our current understanding of how black holes operate. In our three-dimensional universe, black holes have two-dimensional event horizons; that is, they are surrounded by a two-dimensional boundary that marks the “point of no return” for any object plummeting toward the black hole’s center.

    In a theoretical four-dimensional universe, however, black holes would instead possess three-dimensional event horizons. So the researchers’ new theory suggests that our three-dimensional universe is nothing more than a “mirage” caused by a star collapsing into a black hole in such a four-dimensional universe.

    Sure, it sounds fanciful, but it’s also mathematically plausible. The researchers used the tools of holography to show that the Big Bang, as we currently understand it, could be a warped cosmic mirage. They likened coming to terms with their new theory to Plato’s allegory of the cave, which tells of prisoners in a cave fooled into believing that reality is nothing more than the shadows flickering on the wall.

    [check it out]

  • Philosophy is smoke and mirrors. Reality is important.

  • Grant-

    You are nothing more than defeatist presumptuous popinjay who desires everyone else to reveal in your misery.

    Logspirit-

    Thank you brother (and Guy for putting us in contact). Thanks to fine human beings like yourself and your continuing assistance, we are able to magnify our impact in saving more habitat. You will ALWAYS have a home with us at the wildlife reserve site of your choosing. We are saving wild places and there is no pursuit more noble than this.

  • @ Shep:

    Thanks for the references. Yes, a complicated subject indeed.

  • @ Shep

    Philosophy is smoke and mirrors. Reality is important.

    You are full of crap. Whose ‘reality’ ? You think your reality is the same as another person’s ? The same as everyone else’s ? It is obviously not. Was it you who said Jerry Springer was a philosopher ? If so, then you have a very strange and mistaken concept of what philosophy is.

    @ Friedrich

    Congratulations on what you accomplished.
    If you want others to do things, perhaps you have to be more specific as to what they could do. It’s obvious that most feel powerless and have no idea what they could do.

  • @ulvfugi

    Full of crap, eh. Temper. Temper. The Springer thing was a monster joke. (You are much like Grant, in that, you assume too much.) Fooled u, I guess, oh great oracle.

    You fancy urself as a great philosopher? Lots of self-help books in your *library*?

    You are correct. Rich racists have a much different reality. U? That’s all that matters and the soul reason the planet is dead.

    Hated philosophy in college and had one of the best teaches possible. Professor Ken Nishimura, I think is the way he spell it. Circle arguments all. Waste of time. Got dizzy.

    Thanks for the heads up on Pinker though. I thought as much. You can tell much more with the one star reviews.

    Reality is reality. Naming it is what escapes people.

  • Referring to someone’s earlier post:

    I take a neutral position about suicide. I don’t recommend it for others, and I don’t criticize anyone for considering it themselves. I don’t know what life is all about, and so have no conclusion as to how/why to end it. But preserving it is what most living organisms do. So I question some person’s recommendation that people of a certain age should kill themselves for the benefit of whatever. Parents naturally sacrifice themselves for their children’s wellbeing. They don’t have to be instructed. Old people naturally have diminished interest in their personal survival. But suggesting that they off themselves won’t sit well with them either. Nobody else should presume to make life and death decisions for them. Nobody else can determine what any one individual’s life is worth or is all about. At least, not in my opinion.

  • What To Do?

    Our suffering grows more severe
    Until when we all disappear;
    Once you know this is true,
    Why then, what should you do?
    Enjoy it while it’s still here!

  • First of all, I started reading the replies as well as the question, and have been so engrossed in my thoughts on them, to the point of being distracted from the original questions posed and wanting to respond to them and after I was not even halfway through reading all the comments I realized I would be better off just responding to the questions first, and then going back and responding to some of the more particularly thought provoking comments.

    So here are my responses to the questions themselves: As to the first one,I find it interesting that instead of a query about what humanity would be like if we were more cooperative and less aggressive, and if the sexes were more equal and less domineering on one side and dominated on the other, we get a query of what if females were the aggressive species to the point of being like the insects. Well, then I imagine we would find a way to be just as destructive, only through other means and methods. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Or, to put it another way, right now there is some talk about how we are using the “reptilian” part of our brains too much as a society, but now we are being asked to think of using an ‘insect-like’ brain instead and what that would be like.

    While it’s interesting to consider, I find it more interesting to ponder on and go read some more chapters on “The Chalice and the Blade” instead and think on what things would be like without all this aggression in our species, and what we could have accomplished..I would rather regret our not reaching our highest potential and realize what heights we could have reached than think about how in some other universe women could have been just as cruel and unthinking and dominating and men are..neither way is good..both run on violence and domination. Just my two cents.

    And as to the second question: If I could have everyone focus all their time and care and love and energy on something in what time we have left, if I had the power and ability to wake everyone up as to the fact that we are AT Near Term Extinction, and the “dragon’s breath” is breathing on our very doors, and point them in the direction I would like everyone to go, it would be to focus on philosophy and the arts and being creative and focusing on music and dancing and history and learning. I would say yes, learn about the different spiritual traditions while there is time, learn from and appreciate the beauty in nature and in each other, and be kind to one another. Do some ghost dances, shout and laugh and play like a child..read books and talk with others and connect with them..have concerts and dance silly at them..and grieve and hug and love. Above all, love.

    How’s that for some seriously hokey shit? I would have us all just fucking be nice to each other and work towards figuring out the mystery of our dying and our death and what lies on the other side of that veil.

    that is all.

  • Friedrich — oh no, I’m laughing at you. Not a drop of misery here, only wild, useless, undirected mirth. Can’t laugh all the time, so there’s some wild, useless, undirected rage tossed in upon occasion too. Doesn’t cost me a thing either. But by all means, keep saving things in perpetuity, it impresses the hell out of some people and isn’t impressing the hell out of people what life is all about?

    That and gossip. Can’t get enough gossip.

  • Regarding #5. Rather than make a meal out of me, I’m sure my mate would say, “Order a pizza and let’s do that again later!”

    Regarding #6. Equality! I would demand equality for all and share the remaining wealth to the comfort and well being of all. Also, I would establish Suicide Centers, much like the one in Soylent Green. I would have thousands taught the art of grief therapy, especially to help the children. I would put an end to war and use the revenue saved to increase police presence on the streets for the protection of the weak and innocent. I would set up a center to process good ideas from others that could help humanity in its passing.

    I sure as shit wouldn’t be starting wars all over the planet at this late date. I simply can’t come up with words potent enough to describe what I feel concerning the degenerates who are posing as our leaders. At every turn they prove their heartlessness, every move they make devolves into a deeper sense of hopelessness

  • Hot off You Tube, a Conversation with Josh Ellis, whose recent “Everyone I Know is Broken Hearted” blog on Zenarchery.com has gone Viral.

    RE

  • Here are notes from a King World interview of a former Federal Reserve member. It tells it like it was, like it is, and what will probably happen in our near future…

    From King World News, Sunday, August 3, 2014
    Andrew Huszar, Former Fed Member

    1. Immediately after Lehmann Bros. bankruptcy in 2008, every major bank was bankrupt. Although every bank held ‘wealth’ in the form of stocks and bonds, there was simply no cash in the system!

    2. Congress was strong-armed into a $750 billion TARP and Fed broke all rules/laws that had been in force for decades to issue new (discount window) loans to banks (though accounting entries). Bank loan collateral consisted of all forms of illiquid and mis-priced bonds, in other words, pretend collateral.

    3. Banks (through the Fed) funded themselves with cash created through accounting entries. New Fed money was lent back to the Fed as ‘reserves’ which the Fed paid banks 2.5% interests.

    4. In the last five years the Fed has ‘purchased’ from banks over $4.4 trillion in bonds and earns 4 to 4.5% interest on these bonds or about $75 billion per year. About $8 billion (2.5% interest) is paid back to banks for keeping bank reserves in the the Fed. In other words, pre-2008 debt bubble has not been paid, rather it has been transferred to the Fed’s balance sheet.

    5. Rising interest rates would lead to Fed losses, which has never been seen before. The Fed would probably ask congress for more TARP and lead to congressional oversight and loss of independence. A stalemate between the Fed and Congress would return to the 2008 debt bubble pop.

    6. From a duration weighted perspective, the Fed owns ~30% of the $17 trillion federal government debt. Owns ~15% of US household mortgages. The six TBTF banks are 34% larger in 2014 than in 2008. 0.2% of banks control 70% of total bank assets (loans).

    7. Bonds at all-time lows, stocks at all-time high, volatility at all-time low, plus Fed cash infusions. A fragile scenario.

    8. Country is over financialized. From 1980s to 2008 industry doubled in size with 16 times the number of banks. In 2008, the average American held three times the debt than in 1980 which allowed the average American to continue an unsustainable life style. It came to and end in 2008 when the credit bubble popped. Since 2008, the US economy has slipped from first to sixth in the world.

    9. There is $1.5 quadrillion in outstanding derivatives (insurance bets) mainly among mega-banks, but Wall Street is oblivious to the high risk of non-payment. Clearing houses have been put in place, but they use models based on unrealistic assumptions combined with a government lack of investigating wrong-doing created a no-bars attitude among traders and business-as-usual with same old accounting tricks. For example, JP Morgan had 90% in loans in the past. Now it 60% with the remainder in high-risk ‘London Whale’ financial ‘deals’.

    10. We are heading into another economic collapse. Cannot tell when, but it will happen. When it does, the save-the-system response will probably be massive inflation (currency creation through accounting entries) than may devalue the dollar by 40%.

    ===========

    Andrew Huszar: Former Fed Member & Former Managing Dir. At Morgan Stanley – Andrew was Managing Director and U.S. Head of OTC Derivatives Client Clearing for Morgan Stanley. Previously, he managed for the Federal Reserve Bank of New York the $1.25 Trillion Agency MBS Purchase Program (the centerpiece of “QE1”). Andrew was previously a Senior Vice President at RBS Greenwich Capital and co-head of the Transaction Advisory Group, specializing in the Basel II Capital Rules. Prior to RBS, he was an Examining Officer in the FRBNY’s Bank Supervision Group, leading a Market and Liquidity analytics team assessing financial risk exposures of large U.S. financial institutions.

    Biography from Andrew Huszar

    Andrew Huszar – Former Fed Member & Former Managing Dir. At Morgan Stanley

    Until June, 2012, Andrew was Managing Director and U.S. Head of OTC Derivatives Client Clearing for Morgan Stanley. In this role, Andrew reorganized and managed a business encompassing sales, financial planning and analysis, product development, on-boarding, and client service functions. Previously, Andrew managed for the Federal Reserve Bank of New York (“FRBNY”) the $1.25 Trillion Agency MBS Purchase Program (the centerpiece of “QE1”). In this role, Andrew managed the program’s portfolio design and trading strategy, as well as the creation of a permanent, in-house Federal Reserve MBS business platform, encompassing front, middle and back office components. By way of additional professional background, Andrew was previously a Senior Vice President at RBS Greenwich Capital and co-head of the Transaction Advisory Group, specializing in the Basel II Capital Rules. Prior to RBS, he was an Examining Officer in the FRBNY’s Bank Supervision Group, leading a Market and Liquidity analytics team assessing financial risk exposures of large U.S. financial institutions. Andrew began his career at the FRBNY as a lawyer supporting various business lines.

    BACKGROUND:
    Andrew has a J.D. and M.B.A. from Columbia University and a B.S.F.S degree in International Relations with a Certificate in Latin American Economic Development from the Walsh School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University. Additionally, he has a “Certificate d’Etudes Politiques” from the Institut d’Etudes Politiques de Paris (“Sciences-Po”).

    http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2014/8/3_Andrew_Huszar.html

  • Forgot to add this video of Prof. Jeffrey Sachs highly-educated rant against the Fed and “a mountain of criminal and fraudulent behavior” among the financial titans of Wall Street.

    Published on May 4, 2013
    Still Report 80 Prof. Jeffrey Sachs 2

  • My mother would have killed every girlfriend I’ve ever had, and then some.

  • More dimensions to the universe only adds to its infinitude. Regardless of the number of its dimensions, recognising the knower and distinguishing it from the known is the beginning of the quest.

  • Robin Datta

    If one knows the knower (recognize), does it not become the known?
    Don’t answer that. Shep will get dizzy.

  • This Week In Virology podcast:

    TWiV 297: Ebola! Don’t panic
    AUGUST 10, 2014.

  • yw shep
    you know what they say” NO DIZZY SHEPS!

  • “If one knows the knower (recognize), does it not become the known?”

    Rare is the person who groks this.

  • Same shit…..different guru

    http://www.wisdomofchopra.com/

  • 5. Clearly there would not be any living males who had reproduced. Therefore, there would be lots old gay/virgin guys? I dunno. Sorry. I suspect evolution would not smile on such an arrangement.

    6. I get what some here are saying about the futility of agency at this point, but I can’t help being so angry about our predicament that I should probably not elaborate what I would like to do with the oligarchs; the elites and their lackeys.

    The clathrates gun has unleashed it’s fire. It’s amazing to me how sanguine I feel until I consider that particular truth. I have moments when I think that I have gone off the deep end in my belief that nthe is reality, and then I remember… oh yeah… no I’m good… but yeah we’re fucked.

  • Grant and ulvfugl are the realists. The hardbitten,truly objective purveyors of truth at NBL. Don’t be hatin on em.

  • #6
    Very difficult one.

  • Signs Of Change July/August 2014 – Concerns Of Uncertainty

  • In case anyone was wondering:

    “Grok” is a word created by sci-fi writer Robert Heinlein in his book Stranger in a Strange Land, which is a sci-fi reworking of the Jesus story. It was very big in the early 1970s. Grok means “understand,” but it should be noted that anyone anywhere who uses the word “grok” is either an asshole, a major nerd or both.

    I was listening an “educator” — always a major red flag as opposed to anyone who simply goes by “teacher” — drone on how best a student could “utilize prior knowledge.” Utilizing prior knowledge means to remember, but why use one word when three words make you sound so much smarter? Grok falls into the same category that appeals solely to lovers of jargon, professional lingo junkies, code word users and twats.

  • No need to pick on each other – we’re done for anyway – why make it worse and show our arsses!

  • The Vedic tradition recognises two modes of knowing: indirect knowing for all sensory inputs, memories, induction and deduction therefrom. There is also a direct knowing, related to awareness of awareness beyond mere intellection: intellection in this case leads only to an infinite regress “awareness of awareness of awareness … ad infinitum. Or as the nursery rhyme goes:

    “Big fleas have little fleas,
    Upon their backs to bite ’em,
    And little fleas have lesser fleas,
    and so, ad infinitum.”

    It is not even a matter of “we hold these truths to be self-evident”.

    The nearest to it in English is “grok”, “To understand profoundly through intuition or empathy.”

    More on grok.

    As is pointed out at the second link, “the observer becomes a part of the observed”: that is the way the Knower can recognise itself.

  • Grant,

    We all want to change the world
    But when you talk about destruction
    Don’t you know that you can count me out
    …if you want money for people with minds that hate
    All I can tell you is brother you have to wait
    ~ The Beatles, Revolution

    While I don’t like the megalomaniac Earth rapists either (and my inner 7 year old with that super-hero-crimefighter alter-ego would sure enjoy providing them some righteous justice), I do not support the idea of adding to the tally of brutal and violent acts on this planet. You have every right to your feelings, but I’m sorry you feel that way. Sometimes we’re so violated that violence seems to be the only answer. No. The world is saturated with violence, it’s time we stopped violating each other and other species. Started recognizing the good in each other. The alternative guarantees going down as delirious savages.

    Some of these species are knocking on heaven’s door of extinction. If someone doesn’t step in to do something, now! — they’re gone. We can’t control the future, but if we don’t save them right now, they’re gone for sure, forever. We’re focused on saving the critical patient, today, to live until tomorrow, not whether they’ll get run over by a bus next year. These efforts are made to keep them alive to have a few precious moments next year. At least a chance to have the rest of their precious years.

  • 1) What would Planet Earth have been like if Homo sapiens female had been genetically similar to female praying mantises or female black widow spiders (i.e., practicing sexual cannibalism)?

    I get the 50% joke here, which automatically makes me a Sensitive New Age Guy, and worthy of living past the act of copulation. But let’s assume we can talk about what the author of the question was really getting at, which I’d read as :

    “What would it be like on the planet if females ran things?”

    Maybe far better, from what I know of matriarchal societies of the past and present. But for whatever reasons, it hasn’t happened, and it is precisely where the answers to those questions lie, that is at the heart of all our problems. And that is that women have, in modern times allowed themselves to be completely masculinized in the pursuit of power in a male-dominated world. Instead of Earth Goddesses, we have Hillary Clintons and Sarah Palins and Nancy Pelosis.

    2) Assume you are politically omnipotent and can convince everyone on Earth that human extinction is assured in decades … what activities or projects, if any, would you persuade humanity to engage in, or disengage from? Why would it be worthwhile? Would it transcend or depreciate futility?

    This is a trick question, imho. It’s like this: If the answer is ‘I’d do everything within my power to turn things around, even if that’s clearly impossible or highly unlikely.” then the question poser would come back with “Why the hell aren’t you doing that already, you lazy bastard?”

    And if the answer was more along the lines of ” I wouldn’t do anything different, because of the obvious futility”, then the questioner can come back with something along the lines of ” It’s miserable assholes like you who let us get into a mess like this.”

    Seems like the question is a thinly disguised call to arms in support of Gaia…which is okay I guess.

    I can’t really take that question literally, somehow, because I can’t conceive of being omnipotent, even politically. And I’ve spent a lifetime staying as far away from anything political as I could get. The very word makes me have a little gastric reflux.

    All my efforts have been, and will continue to be, aimed at changing the one thing I can change, which is my own behavior. Beyond that, I really have no aspirations.

  • The latest post in this space includes an interview conducted by Reese Jones and an essay from Pauline Schneider. Also, at the bottom of the page, tune in to yesterday’s interview of Mark Thoma, who created 22-After. Catch it all here.

  • @ Shep

    More crap.

    Hated philosophy in college and had one of the best teaches possible. Professor Ken Nishimura, I think is the way he spell it. Circle arguments all. Waste of time. Got dizzy.

    Well, you never learned basic literacy, did you. Not surprising you were out of your depth. Why was he the best ? What made him the best ? If he had been any good, maybe he should have taught you to love the subject. Or maybe, the fault lies with you, you seek excuses to have grudges so you can claim you are mistreated and misunderstood.

    Reality is reality. Naming it is what escapes people.

    See what I mean ? If you don’t even understand that words have meanings and how they fit together to make sense, you are not in a position to communicate or have intelligent conversation, let alone discuss philosophy.

    And you just accused someone else of circularity ? Hahahaha

    Look, ‘reality is reality’ is a slogan. It’s not intelligence. Intelligent people put words together so that they MEAN something, so that they can communicate meaning to other people.

    ‘Reality is reality’ makes the term ‘reality’ meaningLESS.

    A dog is dog, shit is shit, you can grunt, and it means something, but not a LOT.

    You complain that ‘some people’ are overly verbose. But then you complain that I don’t get your stupid joke that Jerry Springer was a philosopher, and you expect people to ask you questions.. ??

    Look, I don’t give a fuck whether you are dead or alive, Shep. I like to talk about interesting stuff that interests me, share ideas, whatever. When I see someone saying crap, I often say it is crap.
    You want to defend your crap ?

    @ Robin Datta

    You try to co-opt the noble teachings of the Buddha and the Hindu scriptures, to yourself, to try and give yourself some authority which you are not really entitled to.

    You use the word ‘consciousness’ as it is translated from Sanscrit scriptures, as if it is synonymous and identical with the word ‘consciousness’ as used in modern scientific discourse. That is an error, and very misleading.

  • Hollywood actor and musician Steven Seagal played a weekend concert in the Crimean peninsula, appearing on a stage adorned with the flag of pro-Russia separatists in Ukraine.

    Seagal and his blues band played on Saturday at a bikers’ show held in the city of Sevastopol, home to Russia’s Black Sea fleet.

    Seagal said he considers Putin, with whom he has promoted martial arts in Russia, “a friend and I’d like to consider him a brother”. Putin’s spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters last year that the Russian president and Seagal have been friends for a long time and meet regularly.

  • You are crazier than I thought possible, u fugi lover. Spinning like a top.
    That’s what philosophy will do for you. I rest my case.

    I don’t not give a fuck if you die either, of course, makes no difference since we’re all going down soon.

  • @ Shep

    Hahahaha, me spinning ? No chance. It’s you that’s dizzy.
    See, you are incapable of conducting an intellectual exchange.
    Ffs, what power do you imagine it is that I have got ?

  • Not real sure why I’m answering but…”Too Much Power” is from the Chaplin video. I posted it in error because I thought I was on the thread #5 & #6. Has nothing to do with narcissist ulvfugi.

  • Ooops there I go again…i thought I was on the 8-11-14 post of Ms Jones’

  • Logspirit:

    Do you don’t you want me to make you?
    I’m coming down fast but don’t let me break you.
    Tell me tell me tell me the answer
    You may be a lover, but you ain’t no dancer.

    — The Beatles, Helter Skelter.
    (For other Beatles lyrics just ask…)

    In case you have failed to notice, the whole “Save the World with Love” has had zero results. If anything, being peaceful and quiet and sitting in protest in sanctioned Free Speech Zones so far removes peaceful protest from the realm of effectiveness, those who preach peace might very well be corporate toadies. 34 years of the Reagan Administration and still there’s these fucks waiting to build a grass roots organization. We’ve run out of time.

    It is impossible to get justice in this system. Money is all that matters. Since justice is out of reach, I am all in favor of revenge. I root for the bank robbers, the whistle blowers, the deserters, the turncoats, the cultural jammers. Monkey wrench the system that is killing us all. If you can’t be pissed off by being murdered, then maybe you’re already dead. The grave is fairly peaceful.

    Demand the Unreasonable. Up Against the Wall, Motherfuckers!

  • I like to grok stuff. Groking stuff is cool. It feels good to grok, I want to grok everything.

    Grokamundo, dude!

  • “Maybe far better, from what I know of matriarchal societies of the past and present. But for whatever reasons, it hasn’t happened, and it is precisely where the answers to those questions lie, that is at the heart of all our problems. ”

    On re-reading, it occurs to me that this part might not have been entirely coherent. 🙂

    What I meant to say was that the questions of “why” we evolved into this patriarchal society, as opposed to a matriarchal one, are at the heart of our modern dis-ease. It’s been hypothesized that it has to do with agriculture, land ownership and primogeniture. That seems correct to me.

    It looks to me like that trend was heavily re-inforced by a Church hierarchy that went out of its way to wipe out earth based religion. That certainly was a blow against female power.

    From what I understand, most, if not all, hunter-gatherer tribes, even European ones, were matriarchal. Everything I’ve read (and my reading is far from exhaustive, I know) tells me that matriarchal societies were kinder, more stable societies than what we have now.

    I used to wonder if someday women would somehow rise up and retake responsibility and control away from the war-mongering politicos, and put mankind back on track somehow. Re-establish the correct priorities of fair share, earth care, and people care.

    I think I was indulging in wishful thinking, or being naive.

  • Grant, I feel what you feel! The bad guys have won for so long that I yearn to see a smidge justice too. From one end of the planet to the other, good people who care enough to create a force for change are always murdered by fucking capitalists. Truth tellers, clinic workers, worker organizers, tree huggers, social workers, writers, anyone who stands up for fairness, rights, land or water, teachers, all slaughtered by degenerate scum. I, too, want to see them brought to their knees!

    And logspirit, my dear friend! You’re absolutely right: too much violence for way too long. This place has become ripe with violence. It’s time for it to end. Even with my good intentions I feel filthy and degraded by exposure to all the sickening violence! So much pain, way too much. I don’t plan on hurting another thing for as long as I live. But when the mobs come for the rich I won’t be able to choke back a ragged shout for joy.

  • I fell the same exact way Kirk and Grant.

  • Damn. What’s up with the intellectual testicle contest in this thread? Philolsophy? Reality? Philosophy is a way of understanding human experience, nothing more. Reality is what happens in real fucking life while philosophers are translating. Just my opinion.

    Not to offend anyone, but wtf? Also, i think Robin Datta is chock full of shit. lol. Fire at will.

  • @ Barry

    Philosophy is a way of understanding human experience, nothing more. Reality is what happens in real fucking life while philosophers are translating.

    Um, well, in real fucking life, we have people who say that AGW can’t be happening because it is so effing cold today, and it is mid summer, and you have to explain to them, that SCIENCE tells us that there is a difference between weather and climate, and that because of the disruption of weather patterns caused by AGW, we get crazt extreme weather events and so forth…

    That’s called EDUCATION. Getting a more sophisticated and nuanced understanding of ‘real fucking life’ and ‘human experience’, because many things around us are not explicable by obvious intuitive observations. It takes long and arduous study to understand what is really going on.

    So it is with philosophy.

    We have the common Demand the Unreasonable. Up Against the Wall, Motherfuckers! and Grokamundo, dude! as the basic ground floor level for ‘real fucking life’ and ‘human experience’, but SOMEONE has to gather this sentiment together and re-interpret into sophisticated language and take it to a higher level and slam it down on the desk of the high brow big wigs, because they don’t pay any heed to vulgar peasants cursing and spitting. One man doing that job carries far greater weight. You hit ’em much harder that way. For example, Arne Naess.

    (Shep better close his eyes, he’ll get vertigo)

    A simple way of explaining it is that any given utterance (word, phrase, or sentence) can be considered as having different potential interpretations, depending on prevailing language norms, the characteristics of particular persons or groups of users, and the language situation in which the utterance occurred. These differing interpretations are to be formulated in more precise language represented as subsets of the original utterance. Each subset can, in its turn, have further subsets (theoretically ad infinitum). The advantages of this conceptualisation of interpretation are various. It enables systematic demonstration of possible interpretation, making possible evaluation of which are the more and less “reasonable interpretations”. It is a logical instrument for demonstrating language vagueness, undue generalisation, conflation, pseudo-agreement and effective communication.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arne_N%C3%A6ss

    Now, you want to argue about that, Barry ? If so, you need to move it to the Forum.

  • As an old female, I have learned that not all males are men.

    Some are intelligent, loving, kind & not prone to violence.

    So if I had the power to choose, I would only eliminate violent, murderous, raping, child molesting, alcoholic or drug addicted males who cannot control their vices or their anger.
    It’s cruel to keep them alive in a cage, just euthanize them.

    Men who are kind, loving, non violent, intelligent etc should be preferred for breeding, those unfortunate men who carry serious genetic defects should be sterilizes as well as women who carry such defects.

    Since we are so terribly overpopulated, any survivors should be MEN or WOMEN not MALES or FEMALES as the female of the species can be just as vicious as the male.

    You don’t have to be a handsome, well hung, hunk to be a MAN & a WOMAN doesn’t have to be slim & beautiful with big boobs.

    So guys, there might be some hope for you yet.
    As for me, it was always too late. ;^)

  • Ulvfugl says: “We have the common Demand the Unreasonable. Up Against the Wall, Motherfuckers! and Grokamundo, dude! as the basic ground floor level for ‘real fucking life’ and ‘human experience’, but SOMEONE has to gather this sentiment together and re-interpret into sophisticated language and take it to a higher level and slam it down on the desk of the high brow big wigs, because they don’t pay any heed to vulgar peasants cursing and spitting”

    But they do pay attention to riots. Negative attention, to be sure, but if the riots refuse to stop and the body count keeps mounting the government starts losing support from the timid, fearful corporations that bankroll them. Bad PR is a corporation’s worse nightmare. Oil companies are exempt from this because no one is seriously mounting a campaign to end the gas powered engine.

    Anyway, I have no real faith in a large uprising either. People are too cowed and worried about their own comfort. A small band of dedicated radicals is required. Again, I have no illusions about finding any justice in any act against the Empire, I just want revenge. I just want to see some of these bastards fearfully walking around with an armed escort. I want to know that people like Dick Cheney, Charles Koch and Rupert Murdoch don’t dare go out in public for fear of being killed. They may have money and power, what they need is a healthy dose of fear.

  • @ Sheila Chambers

    The Patriarchy Matrix, it’s everywhere ! 😉

    http://sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-10-09

    @ Grant

  • Martin Manley had the right idea.

    Matthew Slaughter:I had a bad day, I had to subvert my principles and kowtow to an idiot. Television makes these daily sacrifices possible. Deadens the inner core of my being.
    Maria Coughlin:Let’s move away then.
    Matthew Slaughter:They have television everywhere, there’s no escape.

  • @ulvfugl

    Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I suppose it seems that I was denigrating the value of philosophy. I wasn’t but you are right, words mean things.

    I was commenting on the vitriol between some in this thread. I guess I won’t be doing stand up any time soon. I can’t disagree with a thing you said, ulvfugl. lol

  • Dr. McPherson, how might the stockpiles of nuclear weapons, nuclear powered subs and ships plus poorly stored nuclear waste add to NTHE? Thank you. Deborah from Summerville, SC

  • Thanks for your question, deborah davis. My response is found on the back of my latest book, Going Dark: “If industrial civilization is maintained, climate change will cause human extinction in the near term. If industrial civilization falls, sufficient ionizing radiation will be released from the world’s nuclear power plants to cause human extinction in the near term.”

  • So here is something that has surprisingly gotten very little attention, though it has been touched on for awhile now.

    If it wasn’t for NTE pretty much spoiling the survivalist party, IMO the biggest story to emerge over the last several years, where it concerns the ‘collapse preparedness community’, would be the abject disconnect of “our” community to recognize the existing threat of 400 + nuclear containment pools scattered around the world, after decades of nuclear activism/protest.

    This represents such an enormous omission, I am still flabbergasted as to how I could have been so completely blind. I never once read about this threat in context to collapse until after Fukushima (2011).

    Since the collapse community started coming into its own around 1998, that’s thirteen years where tens of thousands of individuals around the world, spent an enormous amount of time and energy contemplating the ramification of a collapsing IC, and not once, did anyone make the connection between global grid collapse and nuclear containment pools? Hat tip to Kathy C!

    It’s rather unbelievable. Allen Weisman wrote about it in 2007 ‘The World Without Us’, but not directly in context to collapse. And the crazy thing is, I read that book and still didn’t make the connection. I’ll be honest, this fact alone, has seriously made me doubt my better judgment in a way few things ever have.

    It seriously gives one pause, if a single event (disaster) can theoretically erase an entire body of work overnight because so many people failed to see something so obvious.

    Yes, it’s true that most wisdom is in hindsight, but holy crap! That was a massive, massive, MASSIVE!!! breakdown in logic and logistics on our part.

  • @ Guy McPherson, Daniel

    …because so many people failed to see something so obvious.

    But look where we are at right now, today, this is probably the most dangerous time in international relations since the Kennedy-Kruschev Cuban Missile Crisis, when everyone was on the edge of their seats biting their nails expecting Armageddon and oblivion any day, and yet most people don’t seem to have a clue that it is anything like that…

    https://guymcpherson.com/forum/index.php?topic=691.msg54353#new

    @ Barry

    So grateful you did not disagree, I was kinda apprehensive about the (theoretically ad infinitum) part… 😉