The Thick Facade of Civilization

The Thick Facade of Civilization

by Ray Jason at The Sea Gypsy Philosopher

Most of the sky was clear and starry, but ten miles out to sea there was a cluster of clouds filled with lightning.  I was anchored peacefully behind a low island that afforded me a perfect view of this dramatic spectacle.  Sitting on the foredeck with my back against the mast, I sipped some hot sake and marveled at this exquisite display.  Each burst of sky fire was contained within an individual cloud.  Some would erupt in amber-colored brightness and others would shimmer in soft silver or lavender.  The almost Japanese lantern quality of the clouds sparked a memory within me that I struggled to recall.  A second cup of sake unlocked the remembrance vault, and the incident drifted back.  It was a good one.     

About a year earlier AVENTURA was nestled in a pristine cove with a few Indio houses scattered on the shore.  One afternoon I heard the nearby children chattering enthusiastically about something.  I took my binoculars topside and aimed them towards the commotion.  The father was draping a fresh snakeskin over the low branch of a tree.  My guess was that the kids were so excited because they would have fresh snake for dinner that evening.  But my guess was delightfully wrong.

When nightfall arrived, the clearing around their little house filled with lightning bugs.  That was a normal occurrence, but soon the little fireflies discovered the snakeskin, and slipped inside.  Their pale neon green illumination created an eerie but magnificent tubular lantern.  The children laughed with almost feral joy as they danced around this strange, blinking totem.


Watching this lightning now – and recalling those children then – was the catalyst for a slow, gentle, rice-wine contemplation of those qualities of human existence that are enduring and elemental as opposed to those that are temporary and superficial.   I wondered how many generations ago that Indio family had discovered that lightning bugs were attracted to snake skins.  And I pondered how many generations into the future that folk wisdom would endure.  But the more profound question that I considered was whether these self-reliant indigenous people would remain long after the hyper-dependent gringos had vanished.  If so, it seemed like poetic and ethical justice.


As the modern world careens from one catastrophe to another, a rarely-questioned phrase keeps appearing in print and in conversation.  Here is an example of it in common usage: “If the gap between the haves and the have-nots keeps deepening, the thin veneer of civilization could easily be torn apart.”  Allow me to question the foundation of this aphorism that we accept so readily.  The implication is that if certain societal conditions deteriorate, then huge numbers of people will revert to their natural, uncivilized state which is immoral savagery.  I don’t just beg to differ, I insist on differing.

The living arrangement that we refer to as Civilization with a capital C, only arose about 10,000 years ago with the advent of Agriculture with a capital A.  The hallmark of this change was that these Neolithic people began domesticating a few crops and a few types of animals.  Prior to this, everyone survived through hunting and gathering.  And this mode of living did not just span 10,000 years – it lasted for about 10,000 generations.  Mostly, it was small bands of about 50 people who lived a co-operative existence where everyone shared the blessings that nature provided.  Obviously, if the ethical code of these Paleolithic humans had been immoral savagery, they would not have survived for 200,000 years.

For many decades white male anthropologists tried to convince the world that indigenous people were merely sub-human primitives who deserved to be subdued by the superior white race.  They did so to justify the slaughter of millions of First Peoples whose lands and resources were also stolen.  So who are the “immoral savages” in such a scenario?

And if such hideous genocidal conduct is not bad enough, let’s examine the way of life of those who were conquered, and compare it with the lifestyle of those who destroyed them.  I’ll begin by describing some of the characteristics of tribal living:

  • The First peoples understood that Life is a web and all of the interlocking strands are essential to the integrity of the whole.  They realized that the geometry of Earth is not a pyramid with humanity at the apex – ordained to rule over all else   Instead, they knew that the well-being of their brother and sister creatures and of the forests, rivers and jungles that cocooned them, were of vital importance to the entire planetary dance of life.
  • There was superb equality amongst the sexes with the women fully involved in the decision making.
  • They understood the wisdom of limits.  They did not deplete their hunting and foraging grounds, they limited their population, and they killed only when it was imperative for their survival.  They embraced a life of harmony with their neighbors rather than hegemony over them.
  • Indigenous tribes were not divided into rulers and ruled.  And there were no rich and poor.  All shared equally in the spoils of the hunt.
  • These people were phenomenally fit and healthy as revealed through modern archaeology and as verified by the anthropologists living amongst the several dozen tribes that have escaped extinction.  In fact, after only a few centuries of agriculture, the human skeleton had shrunken by about 6 inches because they switched to a cultivated grain diet rather than the mixed protein, fat and vegetable Paleolithic diet.
  • They are blissfully happy – as the contemporary anthropologists report.  Because they are in such harmony with each other and with the natural world that sustains them, they always feel like they are “home.”

Now let me contrast that hunter/gatherer culture with how daily living arrangements changed after the arrival of Agriculture – or what I more accurately call “Conquest Agriculture.”  I prefer this derogatory term because the early Neanderthals used a “scorched earth” farming practice of destroying anything that was a threat to their crops or domesticated animals.

When big C Civilization arrived, it brought domestication not just to crops and farm animals, but also to the average person.  Instead of being wild and feral and self-sufficient, humanity was reduced to dependency and servitude.  This was instituted through “division of labor.”  Instead of everyone knowing how to feed and clothe and shelter themselves, people were obligated to specialize in just one skill.  The vast majority tilled the fields, while others made tools or pottery or baskets – or in the case of the military – they made dead people!

What also arrived with division of labor was hierarchy of power.  Suddenly rulers appeared, and unfortunately, those at the top did not achieve that status by being the wisest and most compassionate.  They gained prominence by being the most ruthless and immoral.  To enforce their edicts, standing armies arrived on the scene.  The elites were also served by a class of courtiers or middle managers.  And finally the new phenomenon of “priests” appeared.  They quickly realized that they could attach themselves to kings or pharaohs for mutual benefit.  The religious potentate could demonize certain groups of people to justify their imperial conquest by the secular leader and his army.

So, the hunter/gatherer’s life of free-roaming self-sufficiency was soon displaced by mud-hut, impoverished slavery.  Thus from the very outset it was a disastrous development for the vast majority of people.  And now let me list some of the historical legacies of Civilization as it wreaked its havoc down the centuries.  This is an utterly staggering inventory of pathologies that did not exist in the tribal societies that were exterminated, and is not found in the few dozen that have survived.

  • Slavery
  • Insanity
  • Torture
  • Human Sacrifice
  • Genocide
  • Plagues
  • Chronic Loneliness
  • Industrial War
  • Laws
  • Obesity
  • Homicidal Dictators
  • Asylums
  • Heart Attacks
  • Lawyers
  • Crusades
  • Atomic Bombs
  • Cancer
  • Poverty
  • Inquisitions
  • Diseases of Civilization
  • Witch-hunts
  • Drones
  • Suicide Bombers
  • Drug Addiction
  • Taxes
  • Robot Soldiers
  • Bankers
  • Missionaries
  • Junk Food
  • Overpopulation
  • Sweat Shops
  • Famine
  • Disparity of Wealth
  • Sexual Deviancy
  • Child Molesters
  • Serial Killers
  • Compulsive Consumption
  • Extinction of Species

It is hard to imagine any rational human being reading that list of atrocities and not saying to themselves, “Why have these consequences of Civilization never been brought to my attention?”  That sensible question brings us back to the title of this essay: “The Thick Facade of Civilization.”  Here is the standard dictionary definition for the word facade: “an outward appearance that is maintained to conceal a less pleasant reality.”  Civilization is so toxic to human and animal and planetary well-being, that its true nature must be hidden from people.

And those in charge of the planet – the gatekeepers – or what I prefer to call The Malignant Overlords – do an extraordinary job of keeping that knowledge suppressed.  You will never hear “the Downside of Civilization” discussed in the mainstream media or from pulpits or in the classroom.  Therefore, the possibility of modern mass society reforming itself backwards towards a more holistic mode of living lightly and sustainably on the Earth is nearly impossible.  Even when a major political or economic system is abandoned because of its uselessness, the underlying foundation of Civilization is not allowed to be questioned.

My belief is that only if there is a planet-wide collapse, can the prospect of smaller, tribal-based communities re-emerge.  That is why I have dedicated great effort to sharing and refining my concept known as the Sea Gypsy Tribe.  (Here is the direct link.)  But I emphasize that I do not desire this scenario, since it would involve a massive die-off.  But if the worst should I occur, I feel it wise to have some concrete strategy for rebuilding a world that might possibly bequeath our descendants Mozart without the Mushroom Cloud.


After a couple of hours of savoring the lightning-lush sky, the clouds dispersed and suddenly revealed a handsome, half-moon.  Somehow it seemed like there was a message in its appearance.  As I contentedly sipped my sake, I searched for some meaning.  Then it jolted me.  Perhaps the universe was reminding me of what is ephemeral and what is enduring.  The magnificent lightning show represented the amazing, electro-hypnotic spell of Civilization.  But it swiftly was gone.  Whereas the moon rising, as it has done for millions of years, symbolizes that less transitory epoch, when humanity lived in harmony with the planet and its creatures and the inscrutable vastness beyond us.

And perhaps one day that era may return …

Comments 71

  • “Green Anarchy” zine archive
    Download them all. Thanks.


    Drought worse than anything seen in 2000 years.

    The article mentions the drought effecting some 70 million people, nicely ignoring the whole of Mexico which also experiencing a drought. Of course, if the drought never ends it’s not a drought, it’s a desert.

    Displacing some 70 million people in search of water and food is certainly going underline just how thin civilization is too.
    We already know that weapons will greet any people south of the border fleeing a lack of water. At what point do those weapons turn upon California, Arizona, New Mexico citizens?

  • Not only do ‘The Malignant Overlords’, the psychotic sociopaths near the top of the pyramid, carry out censorship to ensure that the masses do not become informed about the true nature of the system they endure, but also the masses who are lied to and exploited by those further up the pyramid carry out their own censorship to ensure that do not become informed about their state of servitude, and where it is leading them.

    It seems that less than 5%, perhaps as few as 1%, of the populace of ‘civilised’ nations are capable of searching for and analysing evidence.

    Irrationality rulz! Well it certainly does in the modern, ‘civilised’ world. That is the main reason I have more or less given up attempting to wake people up, and am now primarily engaged in activities relating to the economic-societal crash which will come some time between now and the end of 2016, and making my particular patch pleasant and productive in the short term.

  • Hey Ray, thanks for collecting your thoughts, musings and reflections and sharing them here.

    BUT…not sure you can included ‘sexual deviation’ in your long list of civilizational horrors, without some amplification.

    Deviation from what? The hetero ‘norm’, the monogamous couple and kids? ‘Deviation’ is a loaded word, as it implies a good and widely acceptable, standardized version of sexuality and its expression – a sexual straight-and-narrow from which the perverts among us have strayed.

    The D-word is also loaded because in the not too distant past, homosexuals, transsexuals and others who do not, will not, cannot or simply don’t want to swing along with the norm were routinely branded as ‘deviants’, often with hurtful and even deadly consequences. Such branding still happens, maybe not as widespread or commonplace, but it hasn’t gone away by any means.

    As a writer, you know the power of words. ‘Molestation’ is unequivocal; ‘deviation’ (without explanation) is both ambiguous and highly charged.

  • I think he means deviant like Catholic church deviant. You forgot to put Disco on the list Ray.

  • “We already know that weapons will greet any people south of the border fleeing a lack of water. At what point do those weapons turn upon California, Arizona, New Mexico citizens?”

    Homo sapiens greeted with weapons, but not non-human species such as Monarch butterflies. Or rattlesnakes, armadillos, etc.

    Arizona has a historical distinction: it was the only Confederate state that was not a rebel state (it acceded to the Confederacy before it ever sought accession to the Union). This even though deserts were more of a feature than plantations and slaves in the “Arid zone”.

  • Lovely read Ray – thanks for the beautiful sky vision.

    You realize, of course, that once the grid fails for good there won’t be any Mozart either.

    Rare virus might be causing central Ohio kids’ respiratory illnesses

    Unusually high levels of respiratory illness have been reported this week in Nationwide Children’s Hospital’s emergency department, and samples are being sent out for testing to see whether a rare virus might be to blame.

    “Obviously, it’s a concern,” Dr. Mysheika Williams

    Roberts, medical director and assistant commissioner at Columbus Public Health, said of the volume of respiratory cases. “What we are experiencing is unusual for us this time of year.”

    Last week, respiratory symptoms were the chief complaint of an average of 52 patients per day in the hospital’s emergency department. From Sunday through Tuesday of this week, respiratory symptoms were the chief complaint of an average of 73 patients per day, a 40 percent increase.

    Some of those illnesses might be cases of human enterovirus 68, Roberts said. That virus apparently has sickened dozens of kids in the Kansas City, Mo., area, in recent weeks.
    [there’s more]

    Apneaman: I thought by “deviance” Ray was referring to pedophilia (which seems to be rampant in the upper echelons by recent accounts).

    Tensions running high as annual dolphin slaughter starts in Taiji, Japan

    [this, just after the one in Denmark where 33 whales where killed and 17 members of the Sea Shepherd group were arrested while “Cheering adults and kids on the scene celebrating the death of the whales and the arrests”]

  • What humans are capable of, and likely to repeat.

    Have we really “improved” at all, say, in the 75 years since Hitler invaded Poland and 70 millions died? And now the neo-con savagery targets Russia, playing nuclear Chicken for its resources.

    We use the word “war” so casually, as in a long list of troubles, present and projected. But our awareness of its totality fades in the everydayness of life, and requires refreshing.

    I thank every night I can crawl into a warm, safe bed, expecting to rise on another day of doing pretty much what I want.

  • I doubt you’ll see this Ray, but I thought of you when I read this:

    and this:

    The wheels have been greased for this to happen and it’s about to go forward. As you know, this isn’t just about paving another little bit of paradise, it’s the eradication of a long-standing live-aboard community. Coral Bay is (soon to be was) one of the very last places in US waters where a sailor could moor without being plugged into the matrix. It’s exactly what the Park Service did to all the old trappers in Alaska. Say goodbye to the Coral Bay you once knew.

    I’m particularly incensed that the Fish and Wildlife Service saw fit to finance a nice pro forma for these greed heads using taxpayer money. It’s a fine example of a conduit scheme, for those who follow the money and understand what that is.

    I’ve been trying to write something about it, not that it will make any difference.

  • Eddie,

    Sad the way the Federal Wildlife Service characterizes the St John marina debacle.

    Add the word “amenities” to Ray’s list.

  • Apneaman: I thought by “deviance” Ray was referring to pedophilia (which seems to be rampant in the upper echelons by recent accounts).

    That’s what I meant Tom. Did the church thing offend? U is the go to source for pedophilia in the upper echelons of GB, but it’s always there lurking waiting. The rich that choose that way just have more opportunity. Seems to be only one known cure.

  • It was a dream with my feet stuck in immovable muck, yes, that’s where I recall this from… stuck in an infinite bed of muck solidified by relentless drought, pounding sun. This hot frustration of living within a society stuck in its own congealed, stubborn, painful mechanisms. Boxed in by aversion to awareness. Intimidated by awareness, by the brilliant flash of opening eyes to the big world.

    So they don’t. They remain steadfast to a diet of delicious lies. Just smoke, hold the mirrors. Swallowing whole raw belief systems without discernment or clue. Meanwhile, things unravel. Steadily. Torn up threads of the web of life casually discarded like confetti after a ribald champagne party – gone amuck. The excited chatter hangovered, silenced. Everyone’s gone home, or wherever they’ve gone. Perhaps to sleep forever.

    A shutter bangs against a broken window and knocks a dead fly off the dry sill. Paint chips curling upward like thirsty tongues. Early years no one remembers anymore… exposed in layers of fading color as chip after chip blows away. The face with dewy eyes which yearned through this window unnoticed will never appear again. Maybe I saw her, once, in a flash of lightning in a dream. Sweetheart to ashes. Dust clouds muscle in.

  • logspirit,

    I’m glad you’re back. Your comment touched me like good poetry.


    Sexual deviancy: A good point to make, I agree.

    And Ray,

    I always welcome your musings.

  • Dracula strikes again:

    Policymakers ramped up efforts to protect the single currency region’s weak recovery and combat the threat of deflation by announcing a 10 basis-point cut in its main interest rate, taking it to a new all-time low of 0.05%. The ECB cut the deposit rate, already in negative territory, from -0.1% to -0.2%.

    I’m sure it will all get very ‘interesting’ around January 2015; Europe, and especially Ukraine, can struggle along in the summer without a lot of Russian gas, but come the depths of winter….

    (The Guardian used to be a semi-decent newspaper, but has gone down the drain like all the others, and presents government propaganda as fact these days. Certain facts cannot be hidden, even if the spin put on them is utter nonsense.)

  • From the Arctic News website. It appears Malcolm is not optimistic about our future. Not looking forward to the “arctic methane firestorm”.

    “State Of Extreme Emergency
    by Malcolm Light


    By the way, I am not yelling at you. Malcolm is yelling at you.

  • Hierarchy in Social Animals

    There’s always been hierarchy—
    Just look at your own family;
    If your status were higher,
    You still would expire
    When doom comes, inevitably.

  • Hierarchy in Social Animals

    There’s always been hierarchy—”

    The recognition and acknowledgement of a leader coming from below without the threat of coercive violence is a natural hierarchy. Even the queen ant and the queen bee are granted their status and privileges on the basis of the special roles they play.

    Human societal hierarchies are imposed from above accompanied by the threat of coercive violence. The sheeple are placated by promoting the view that those at the top uphold the shepee’s interests. Sometimes this is accomplished through the charade of participatory democracy.

  • OK then, how about this?

    “Social Hierarchy in Mammals”


  • @Tom, re. Mozart, AFAIK there are still things called acoustic instruments and sheet music… How did Mozart get transmitted BEFORE the grid? He’ll be with us for at least some months or years afterwards. You know how to whistle, don’t you? You just put your lips together and blow. Cosi’ fan tutti!

    @Ray, I hear what you are getting at, but I’m just not convinced that humans were all so perfect pre-“civilization”. At times in the H-G world, conditions certainly did sometimes lead to raids, human sacrifices and enslavement, and pedophilia depends on whether you are talking about pre-pubescent children or not. Certainly pubescents we would regard today as “children” were ushered into adulthood much earlier than eighteen or twenty-one. I hope that doesn’t scandalize anyone. It could be argued that our extension of childhood is an unconscious, although not entirely effective, brake on procreation.

    Easter Islanders did certainly do themselves in by overpopulation.. most other early cultures weren’t so isolated and circumscribed, and could ebb and flow and move on to greener pastures. It’s neither their pseudo-saintliness then, nor our wickedness now, entirely, that describes for us the end of the road. We just happen to be among the lucky ones to witness the Whole Enchilada all go down, or start to. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, apparently. It’s easy to “live in tune with nature” when nature is providing you with skies black with birds, and fish so numerous you can cross rivers on their backs. Our increasingly damaging extractive ways, I might argue, are themselves a response, a “solution” to overpopulation pressure.

    Queenie, in a comment to me, offered up the theory that, as a population is stressed, it will try to self-replicate *more*. Which I would imagine as another positive feedback loop. I haven’t researched this at all on the human front, don’t know whether anyone else has, but it’s certainly true of plants which, under stress, will often desperately bear a huge flush of fruit.

    There’s a fascinating phrase cited in a book by John Gray, “The Silence of Animals”, and it quotes a certain Alexander Herzen who asks, “Why does everything else exist as it ought to exist, whereas with man, it is the opposite?”

  • Lidia: ha-ha, touché! Once things get ramped up, I don’t think even music will be spared, but I agree we’ll have the instruments for the time being.

    Apneaman: oh, I get it now .. . It’s so obvious I missed it! I was going with the whole Catholic “sex as sin” nonsense they peddled when I used to do church as a lad and whiffed on their more recent(ly exposed) “problem.” Yes, and that’s just the lip of the proverbial pit on iniquity organized religion has become, not to mention how rampant it is government and high offices globally!

    Ebola Could Reach the U.S. By the End of This Month

    There is an 18 percent chance that a case of the Ebola virus will reach the United States by the end of September, according to a study published on Tuesday in PLOS Currents: Outbreaks.

    Drought apocalypse begins in California as wells run dry

    [In another article readily seen on-line, two towns in Texas are sparring over water in what portends the future in the southwest: water wars.]

  • Engaging the State, Stopping Global Warming
    [audio src="" /]

    Here we see NYU professor, and son of the inimitable Michael Parenti, Christian Parenti, calling for capture of the US “STATE” – the gov – in order to engage climate change. He says for their ability to pass “laws”, and put people in “prison”, along with a social movement to make it happen. Sounds fine and dandy uncle Chris. But how long have I been waiting for a social movement to do jack all of anything in the USA? To whit it is delusion. Fantasy. And a bid to maintain the old cushy NYU professor’s salary, prestige and lifestyle.

    Bullocks. The US gov is a corporation, with a revenue stream that flows from other corporations. The gov exists to facilitate creation, growth and maintenance of these corporations. Social functionality – especially justice – is utterly secondary if considered at all.

    Why aren’t the offices of the fossil fuel carbon infero gang ON FIRE? Why do their cult-members continue to come and go in harmony and tranquility? Why do the venues where their shares change hands remain undisturbed? Why doesn’t anyone know or seem to care where they have tequila and tapas on Friday evening?

    To whit, US privilege and economic power will either consciously or sub-consciously be maintained going forward by any means necessary. You know the constituency as well as I do. Parenti is shooting at moonbeams and chasing rainbows with the gov-will-save-us (esp. me).

    Ward Churchill explained quite clearly. The courts are not going to rule themselves out of existence. The gov is not going to take up your robin hood delusions unless they are scared witless, which no one in the States seems particularly interested in. Best to do as Churchill advises and follow the proposition of : US OUT OF NORTH AMERICA.


  • “There’s always been hierarchy—”

    Cop out. D.S. Wilson and his co-author E.O. Wilson have become well known for the quote, “Selfishness beats altruism within groups. Altruistic groups beat selfish groups. Everything else is commentary.” This quote appeared in their paper, “Rethinking the Theoretical Foundation of Sociobiology.”

    The pyramid is a recent human construct. Bio-Historically hierarchy = temporary benefit followed by suicide. If there is hierarchy going forward, there will not be any going forward. If you are committed to this particular depressive nihilistic thesis about “hierarchy”, go back a couple of threads and review Nachayev’s Revolutionary Catechism.

    “We will not lead. We will only detonate.”

  • @ Lidia.

    Does anyone know how to make catgut strings these days? Once the supply of industrially manufactured steel stings runs out I suspect we are going to be in a very different world. All those pianos, guitars, violins, violas, cellos double basses and no way to replace the strings (or the pianos). Enjoy it all while it’s still available.

    The fascist state of NZ has just ramped up the fascism. The Vinny Eastwood YouTube channel ahs been shut down, so I hear: okay, he was a bit of a nutter/denialist when it came to peak oil and climate change, but at least he was challenging the hypocrisy and lies in other areas, and gave a voice to truth.

  • Wester,

    How the hell did Parenti’s son turn into a Mandela cop-out? Churchill and Michael Parenti are two I admire greatly.

    Love ur comment on Hierarchy. Did not know that. Thanks.


    ‘Worst Case’ BP Ruling on Gulf Spill Means Billions More in Penalties

    BP Plc acted with gross negligence in setting off the biggest offshore oil spill in U.S. history, a federal judge ruled, handing down a long-awaited decision that may force the energy company to pay billions of dollars more for the 2010 Gulf of Mexico disaster.

    [yeah, well too bad the Gulf is a sewer now with a large (and growing) dead-zone; and let’s see where the money (if any) goes . . ]

    Nevada, Tesla announce huge ‘Gigafactory’ deal

    Tesla Motors and Nevada made it official on Thursday evening: the electric car company’s highly sought battery “Gigafactory” and its projected 6,500 jobs are coming to the Reno area.

    Mutual congratulations between the electric-car maker and Silver State officials aside, the news of the announcement event in Carson City was the huge incentives the state will have to contribute to seal its end of the proposed deal: a package estimated to be worth $1.25 billion over 20 years.

    [By the time they finish the factory, we’ll probably be deep into the collapse; Elon Musk – smells like teen spirit .. .]

    for Lidia:

  • An English summary of the process:
    How Gut Strings are made

  • Neo-tribalist fantasies with lots of guns? Bullshit. Rules and rules. There is only one rule here, don’t post more than twice. I broke that rule the other day. Big deal.

    Someone posted a link to Malcolm Light’s Call To Action at this link:

    I tried to post this comment at 7:30 am EST.
    I was told my comment was awaiting approval.
    I will check back throughout the day to see if – not when – it appears.


    Light’s call for a massive switch to solar-wind energy is misguided because “green” energy is intermittent. This means we would need ten times the amount of green energy to displace 1 unit of fossil energy.

    Our hi tech, green energy world requires conflict minerals, rare earth elements, heavy metals, nano materials and graphite. Search for rare earth mining in China on YouTube and see what special hell your solar panels and wind turbines produce in outer Mongolia. Graphite is used for all our batteries and is mined in China emitting deadly fine air particles resulting in a lethal smog that washes down from the skies in an ash laden rain that covers crops and water. Graphene, produced for batteries, is water soluble and can cut through human/animal cells. Both graphite dust and graphene are deadly to humans because of their small size. Solar cell manufacturing produces 3 green house gases that are over 10,000 times worse than C02. Manufacturing just five wind turbines produces 1 ton of radioactive residue and 75 tons of toxic water. Wind turbines only work at 25% of their rated capacity up to 90% of the time. Over 2 million children died in the Congo for the conflict minerals green energy needs. Thousands of people die in Chinese mines every year. Prof. Jian Shuisheng of the Jiatong-University estimates the production of just 6 solar panels requires one ton of coal.


    Attack of the Zombie Plants: World War A

    Along most of its coastline, in its bays and estuaries, and in many of its rivers and lakes, America is under mounting attack by another enemy of its own making — toxic green algae. It’s like a bad horror movie, with the slime sprawling across vast reaches of water (so much that it’s visible from space), eventually covering beaches and burping a neurotoxin that is deadly to earthlings. As a movie, it wouldn’t get past a concept lunch in Hollywood today (Hey, Arnie! It’s been done, okay?) but it is raising real dread — not the fake movie kind — from California to Florida, from the coast of Washington to the coast of Ohio. Yes, Ohio. [read the rest]

    [i’m no Paulian, but he’s on to something here]

    Ron Paul on 9/11: “I Believe That If We Ever Get The Full Truth, We’ll Find Out That Our Government Had It In The Records Exactly What The Plans Were, Or At Least Close To It”

    Background: Overwhelming evidence shows that 9/11 was foreseeable. Indeed, Al Qaeda crashing planes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon was itself foreseeable. And see this.

    No wonder the movement to declassify 9/11 information is gaining momentum.

    Grim Ebola prediction: outbreak is ‘unstoppable’ for now, says U.S. virologist

    September 2014 – AFRICA – A doctor who just returned from treating Ebola patients in West Africa predicts the current Ebola outbreak will go on for more than a year, and will continue to spread unless a vaccine or other drugs that prevent or treat the disease are developed. Dr. Daniel Lucey, an expert on viral outbreaks and an adjunct professor at Georgetown University Medical Center, recently spent three weeks in Sierra Leone, one of the countries affected by the Ebola outbreak. While there, Lucey evaluated and treated Ebola patients, and trained other doctors and nurses on how to use protective equipment. The current Ebola outbreak, which is mainly in Guinea, Sierra Leone and Liberia, has so far killed at least 1,552 of the more than 3,000 people infected, making it the largest and deadliest Ebola outbreak in history. It is also the first outbreak to spread from rural areas to cities. Strategies that have worked in the past to stop Ebola outbreaks in rural areas may not, by themselves, be enough to halt this outbreak, Lucey said. “I don’t believe that our traditional methods of being able to control and stop outbreaks in rural areas … is going to be effective in most of the cities,” Lucey said yesterday (Sept. 3) in a discussion held at Georgetown University Law Center that was streamed online. [there’s more]

  • This is still my first post, because someone is imitating me. A street dog came up to me this morning and telepathically told me that aliens were going to take over my brain to communicate with readers here. So, technically this post doesn’t count.

    Here is a great link, check out the Wet Spots interactive map half-way down the page.

  • Very good essay,Ray.
    No doubt the effects of climate disruption will cause the extinction of the few remaining hunter gatherer tribes , so this is just whiling away time on the beach of doom,but I thought I would mention some major systemic flaws of industrial civilisation that did not exist under a hunter gatherer system.Some of these flaws also existed under the preindustrial civilisation as well.
    The nitrogen that is part of the amino acids that build the protein in your body is supplied to the plants you eat by the natural nitrogen cycle under the HG system.
    If we relied on the natural nitrogen cycle ,the estimated maximum population that could be supported on the land area now under cultivation is around 3 billion.To support our extra population we rely on the Haber-Bosch process to supply chemically ‘fixed’nitrogen to allow the plants to grow adequately and synthesise the amino acids.
    The Haber-Bosch process is very energy intensive and relies on fossil fuels for energy and feedstock.
    Those fossil fuels will become increasingly scarce during this century.
    The nitrogen fertilizers are often applied in excessive amounts,and nitrogen runoff combined with phosphorous and sediment from soil erosion causes dead zones in rivers and ocean areas near rivers through eutrophication.
    Soil erosion has existed since soil first formed.It only becomes a major problem when the amount of soil erosion of a given area exceeds the amount of soil formation on that same area.
    Hunter gatherers did not cultivate or irrigate the soil.The major problems of excessive soil erosion,soil salinization, and soil structure degradation did not exist under that system.
    The informed estimates of the amount of soil erosion on the cultivated and grazed land world wide is around 25 billion tons per year.The amount of soil formation on that same area is around 2.6 billion tons per year.
    The natural nutrient cycles remained intact under a HG system.Ever think what all the sewage outlets of all the cities and towns around the world actually means in system terms?
    Those outlets into rivers and oceans are converting a cyclic system iinto a linear system.
    In geological terms the nutrients cycle eventually,but in human lifetime terms it means that we need to mine the plant nutrients to keep the industrial agricultural system operating.
    Supplying those nutrients,particularly phosphorous becomes an increasingly difficult problem.
    A HG system did not have non- biodegradable and toxic synthesised chemicals entering ecosystems.
    Even if climate disruption was not occurring, these problems combined with the increasing scarcity of fossil fuels ,which our’bubble ‘ civilisation requires to function,mean that our industrial civilisation has a very limited life span.

  • Well Robert I see all the stuff I told you about windmills, alternate forms of energy storage, wood being solar, and using the Amish and history as your guide, went in one ear and out the other, and you’ve gone right back to paste parroting fossil fool stink tank talking points.


  • @ Robert Callahan

    Your comment on hi tech green energy should make people think twice.

    If I had researched this properly 10 years ago, when we had our PV panels installed, I would have been horrified and probably not gone ahead. It just proves how denial works, even if you’re not really conscious of it at the time.
    Now I try and do everything as consciously as possible (and still feel a hypocrite), living simply and not up-dating the technology I use in the home until it’s absolutely necessary (hypocrite again), just looking after it.
    What else can you do? It’s impossible to extricate yourself from this net of civilisation strangling the biosphere.

    Your comment should be posted in big letters in every shopping mall.
    But would it make people think? Of course not!
    I agree with Kevin who’s given up on people now. I just try to care for the non-humans around me and the very few humans I feel close to. This keeps me content.

  • Old fashioned windmills don’t produce such wastes, nor require rare earth minerals. There are new thin-film solar cells (I have some) that are basicly just printed on sheets of glass – the kind of solar cells being referred to in this hit piece are silicon, the oldest kind, produced back in the days when chip manufacturing didn’t concern it’self with pollution, energy costs or mineral acquisition.

    There are also flexible and painted solar cells, including ‘low tech’ DIY home made flexible cells made from copper foil, and now even roofing shingle cells, semi-transparent window glass cells (meant to be used as a replacement for low-e or tinted glass)

    This fossil fool hit piece (which I’ve seen you paste here several times before) cherry picks only the very worse examples, exaggerates the toxicity (like calling inert carbon ‘deadly poisonous’) and completely ignores what impacts fossil fuels AND NUCLEAR have (this very hit piece is often cited by big oil & big nuke to try to whitewash/greenwash themselves)

    Then there’s solar heat, which can be as low tech as movable shades, blinds, houses built from organic materials (even bales of straw) situated to allow sunlight to fall into living spaces, solar hot water as simple as a container painted black, using common, recycled waste that otherwise would have gone into the landfill or incinerator.

    – empty buckets, old barrels, vegetable oil lampblack mixed with flaxseed oil for the paint, etc. (no petroleum products used at all for this paint) – just go back to the days before fossil fuel, before plastic, study the Amish – they have no tech, no electricity, no refrigerators

    candles, oil lamps, preserved foods by drying, smoking, salting, canning on a wood stove, and they didn’t even directly try to use solar in any way (growing crops is the most basic ‘solar power’, wood is also indirect solar power)

    you plant a tree, let it grow, chop it down with an axe or hand saw, burn the wood, generate steam, power a generator – low tech, low impact solar :)

  • this is my third AND FINAL post

    – see how the 2 post guideline is routinely violated to turn this space into a pasted talking point circus?

    it’s been what – a day – since the subject was brought up by the blog owner

    YOU plant a tree YOU chop it down, YOU plant more trees..

    do the Amish have industrial incineration plants?

    thanks for keeping the context

  • Thin cell solar cells degrade faster than regular cells at more than 1% per year.
    They use toxic nano materials and cadmium, the deadly heavy metal.
    They are toxic waste after a short lifespan.
    They are intermittent and require toxic batteries.
    We would need billions of tons in minerals for faux-green batteries
    including the molten salt and liquid metal kinds.
    while solar-wind works fine on the small farm
    they won’t save us from ourselves as a planetary civilization.

  • @crazy inventor,

    I like your ideas. They are well thought out but would only work for a few million people left on the entire planet. Therefore, they are not the answer either.
    That means most of us must die, and the many scenarios we all imagine here that might play out, in a multitude of variations and combinations, would make this Earth uninhabitable for ALL life as we know it. We’ve discussed this ad infinitum here. Therefore, survival in the long-term is not an option. I always thought that this is precisely what this blog is all about. Am I wrong?

    I think there are no answers because there are no problems to be solved. This is not a single or many problems but an overwhelming conundrum. A trap.
    Of course, men like to solve problems, get us out of the holes they’ve dug in the first place. But this is too big. It won’t work. In the meantime, it keeps a person active, and that’s always good,if that is what you need.
    I don’t anymore, I’m past that stage.
    Most of us alive today should have never been born, and I include myself in that!

    On the other hand, I probably won’t have long to go anyway. So contemplating my own death and that of my loved ones is relatively easy. I’m well practised there.

    But the death of the biosphere, all the complex life forms still left now, that’s the thing that still makes me weep and angry once in a while. To destroy all that for the sake of “man’s progress”.

    Here where I live in England, in my immediate vicinity, our native oaks don’t have any acorns this year. They have growths where acorn should be,that look like malformed hops. This is weird. Autumn(fall) is very early and many leaves are not changing colour but simply go brown, dry up. And we’ve had a lot of rain here. It’s not drought. The trees are highly stressed. Perennial plants also show signs of weirding. But other trees and native shrubs have an abundance of fruit. As Lidia mentioned, they show the stress with a desperate flush of fruit. It’s topsy-turvy.

    In spite of all that, I find you comments interesting. :)

  • Wester says: “The US gov is a corporation….Social functionality – especially justice – is utterly secondary if considered at all.”

    Capitalism as Distraction from Overshoot

    If you like, blame the corporation
    As the cause of our species’ cessation;
    Our overshoot blunder
    Would occur the same under
    Any social organization.


    The irreconcilable acceptance of near-term extinction

    which I humbly suggest you read immediately if you haven’t already, and maybe re-read if you haven’t lately,
    Daniel says: “post-acceptance perspective”

    Post-Acceptance Perspective

    Seeing that any objective
    You try will be ineffective
    Is one of those steps
    To include in your preps:
    Post-acceptance perspective.

  • “If there is hierarchy going forward, there will not be any going forward.”

    Not sure what you’re saying in the over all post here, but I did find this quote intriguing. Species-ism, sexism and racism are all forms of hierarchy.

  • Interactions between hierarchies occurring so as to make hierarchies meaningless (Hofstadter’s Strange Loops or tangled hierarchies) is what enables a complex system to thrive. Rigid hierarchies or hierarchies where the rules apply to one set of individual units and not to others (i.e., top down rules) are the ones that end up stagnating or collapsing. In natural systems you come across natural hierarchies (i.e., molecules, pathways, cells, tissues, organisms, populations, etc.) but that is really a human invention and something used to understand how natural systems behave. Natural systems evolve to have just the right amount of cross talk between hierarchies so as to maintain a dynamic equilibrium arbitrarily.

    I think when discussing hierarchies, the distinction between systems with top down rules (i.e., rules applying to only a subset of components in the system and/or created by the components themselves) and systems with bottom up rules (universal rules) is relevant. In my simulations of numerous types of complex systems, there wasn’t a single system with any top down rules that did not stagnate or collapse. However, a few systems with particular sets of bottom up rules would exhibit the type of behaviour we see in our natural systems. (This is unpublished in general form; however, the experiments with simulations of biological systems have been.)

    Regarding the survivability of complex life after NTHE, I think it would depend on one’s definition of complexity. I think some multicellular lifeforms will make it through, even if significantly mutated, and these may include some insects, some plants, and perhaps some animals (the tardigrade is an animal). I believe intelligent and sentient life will arise again before our Sun goes supernova. I’ve not really mentioned this before but if one were really trying to fulfill their evolutionary imperative, they could have all their genes implanted in various other organisms to ensure their propagation at least (which is really what happens when you have offspring, as per Dawkins, who I don’t agree with entirely). I expect to see more of this happening as the symptoms of NTHE become more apparent. The evolutionary dance will continue.

    I think what is important is to realise what makes humans and intelligent life unique and treasure being able to achieve that. Love, for example. Or joy. Or contentment. Or passion. These qualities may never arise again and so one should enjoy life to their fullest knowing NOW is when that can happen (not after NTHE or your own death). Whatever you do, remember that others can also do.

  • Also, I don’t always agree with what crazy_inventor says, but his comment about the ability to generate power being of most value when collapse occurs is spot on. And also, plants are beautiful examples of organisms that have coevolved to regulate the oxygen cycles and the carbon cycles of the earth system. It has worked for hundreds of millions of years. We could learn a lot from them.

  • The panic will precede the arrival, and only grow thenceforth, shutting off any opportunities you may have to prepare:

    The disease may have a 50% or so mortality rate, but the “weaponized” humans of industrial civilization are 100% fatal, having proven themselves to be so in the evidence we discuss here each day.

  • “I believe intelligent and sentient life will arise again”

    Good idea.
    Causes and timing of future biosphere extinction

    “before our Sun goes supernova”
    Fortunately, it does not have sufficient mass to do so. Those stars are short-lived.

    “Love, for example. Or joy. Or contentment. Or passion.”

    The Fullness of Emptiness

    “form does not differ from emptiness,
    emptiness does not differ from form.
    That which is form is emptiness,
    that which is emptiness form.”
    – The Heart Sutra.

  • Easter Island is an example of a failed agricultural society(supplemented by fishing),not an example of a failed hunter gatherer system.The original dense forests were cleared mainly for the cultivation of crops,plus some for canoe construction.Soil erosion was severe.
    It is an excellent example of an agricultural civilisation overpopulating on an eroding soil base,if we can ever learn from history.(Fat chance,evidently)

  • Henry,
    Thanks for the Ebola link. I read it and although they obviously wanted to manage concern on the part of the reader, I wasn’t feeling to confident that they have essentially any control over it spreading all about. Course I do hang out here at NBL so I might be a little biased.

  • D. Higham

    You might want to read “The Statues That walked” to understand the Easter Island collapse. It had more to do with rats than humans.

  • St Roy,
    Thanks for that.I will check it out.II have read about the rat hypothesis,which is probably correct.I wasn’t typing a long comment on Easter Island,and what I typed is correct.The civilisation there was not a HG system.Is there some point in my comment that you think is incorrect?(If I have to reply it will be in the forum to avoid over posting)

  • Confirmed, Ward Churchill is a Fraud, Part 4
    By: Kevin Flynn
    Rocky Mountain News | Friday, June 10, 2005
    One sure method for determining Indian heritage is to identify an Indian ancestor – the only method Churchill didn’t use in his 50-page report to the university’s investigating committee, according to a description of the confidential response by Churchill’s attorney, David Lane.

    For Churchill’s claims of 1/16th or 3/16ths Cherokee blood to be true, between one and three of his 16 great- great-grandparents would have to be full-blooded Indians, or six of his 32 third-great-grandparents and so on.

    If it all came from his mother, as he has sometimes said, she would have to be nearly half Indian herself.

    But all of Churchill’s 16 great- great-grandparents are known. Not a single one was a full-blooded Indian, nor is there evidence any were part Indian. All but two are listed as white on census records from the 19th century. For those two, who could not be located on a census, their children were listed as white.

  • In an NTE scenario it is of little to no significance what one’s ancestry or ethnicity was. All stiffs soon stink, and stink equally.

    How about a preamble to a declaration of NTE:
    “We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men putrefy and stink equally, and equally to all non-men, which includes but is not omitted to, browns, yellows, reds, blacks and women.

  • “Includes but is not limited to”
    iPhone IOS’s spellcheck again!

  • “Easter Islanders did certainly do themselves in by overpopulation.”-L

    “You might want to read “The Statues That walked” to understand the Easter Island collapse. It had more to do with rats than humans.”-SR

    Notably here, the Rat Population ALSO collapsed along with the HS population. The Rats weren’t any better at achieving sustainability than the HS population was.

    “Balanced” ecosystems are quite hard to establish artificially, and whenever an invasive species is introduced to a given location it generally mucks up the works.

    HS is of course the ULTIMATE Invasive Species, thus the current very poor condition of the Earth as a whole. However, the Earth and Nature are responsible for evolving HS, so in that sense the Earth is responsible for the Havoc wrought by said species.

    You have to remember always that the total timespan for life on Earth is limited, Extinction is a guarantee, always has been. It is just a matter of timeline. HS probably accelerated the timeline to extinction of all life on Earth, but at best only by about 300M years out of a few Billion. This is not something to get your knickers in a twist over.

    The scenario now to play out is whether it all goes in the crapper by 2030 as Guy lately predicts (see the video) or whether it is possible to extend it out further than that?

    I personally hope to make it to 2031, and hopefully Guy does also. In which case I will make an “I told you so” post. :)


  • Sabine and others

    Just on the household energy front…

    I call for the use by as many people as possible the 12 Volt automotive electrical system in place of 220V-240V distance transmission system.

    I don’t see how ordinary domestic needs for lights and low volt TV’s even could not run from 12 Volt. People just gotta choose it in place of the big coal and gas and nuclear generators.

    er…. no…. 12 Volt probably wont run a Jacuzzi and a hot water heater of the ordinary variety. But it will recharge your iPod and run your laptop from. Not sure about the modem.

    Basically caravan Winnebago style living could be an option for a whole lot more people-may even be a transition lifestyle while returning to HG status, which is where we as a species are heading if TGEF does not eventuate soon.

    (TGEF: Total Global Ecosystem Failure) ;)


  • “I call for the use by as many people as possible the 12 Volt automotive electrical system in place of 220V-240V distance transmission system.”-OM

    Eddie and me are both big 12V people! 12V is the way to go! Tons of good Scavenging available of Carz Batteries! EZ to retrofit car and truck alternators for Wind or MicroHydro!

    Won’t work in perpetuity, but I bet dollars to doughnuts you can make it work past 2030. :)


  • a bright spot in the news:

    Australia cancels plan to dump five million tons of dredge in Great Barrier Reef

    ( – A consortium of companies—North Queensland Bulk Ports, GVK Hancock and Adani Group—have announced they are giving up on a hugely-controversial plan to dump five million tonnes of dredged sediment in the Great Barrier Reef. The plans ran into considerable opposition from environment, conservation, and tourism groups who feared harm to the world’s largest coral reef system, which is already suffering from global warming, ocean acidification, pollution, and overfishing. [there’s more]

    Nominee — Best Rant Of 2014

    I’ve been know to go off sometimes, but where rants are concerned, I can’t hold a candle to Umair Haque. And everything Umair says is True.

    So, without permission and further ado, here’s Umair’s Ode to a F**cked Generation. [damn good rant, and a short video at the end]

  • RE says “I personally hope to make it to 2031, and hopefully Guy does also. In which case I will make an “I told you so” post”

    Yet, unlike you, Guy is not eagerly awaiting for everyone to die so he can prove his point. You on the other hand, simply cannot wait for things to fall apart so you can set up you survivalist camp and gun down all the worthless people who don’t think exactly as you do.

    Guy does not promote Survival At All Costs. That’s you. And it’s the same kind of horrible, selfish, blinkered thinking that’s pushed the planet over the line.

  • I’ve posted a new NTHE question, and more. It’s here.

  • Who gives a rat crap about Churchill’s blood quantum? My lineage is one hundred percent racist imperialist hillbilly cracker, and I fully support the existence, aims and objectives of the American Indian Movement, as well as the right of indigenous to full title and autonomy to lands which they’ve held for millennia, and to which even by US jurisprudence and law they still retain legal sovereignity. I support Leonard Peltier’s case. I voted for him for president. I profoundly respect and appreciate the analysis of John Trudell, Winnona LaDuke, Waziyatawan, Caleen Sisk, and Gord Hill, and Russell Means, and the Miq’maks whose language has 5 times as many words as English, as well several First Nations people I know personally.

    If you don’t see them on Fox News, maybe you can do some research to dredge up some further ad hominems to rationalize your situation, and help you ignore the fact that your whole socio-cultural setup is a rank gimmick and a despicable world-destroying suicidal farcical lie on a scale never before seen in human history. I read Churchill’s books without apology, as I am not interested in ~him~ but in the issues he raises, the positions he takes and the history and facts presented in his works.

    What I do not appreciate is more white invaders trying to monopolize the right to monopolize definitions and frame issues in their self-interest. See, when you start blah-blahing night and day about how you hate Ward Churchill, and by proxy the interests of the populations he defends ~with his claims~, you are consciously or otherwise showing your studied non-interest in engaging ~the claims~ which he makes, and since you can’t even begin to do that, go straight for the ad hominem. TO address the issues raised to to give credence to positions which have none.

    In other words, you can’t have your lily white imperialist cracker hillbilly system of privilege and power, without dancing on the graves of the indigenous population, without continuous celebration of their systematic murder, terror,pillage, rape, and theft on a scale that truly embarrasses the Nazis. And that’s just for starters. Ward F-King Churchill is not at issue. What is at issue is a Euro-centric English speaking relentless terrorist culture built on psychotic levels of violence perpetrated against other human beings as well as the natural world. Good luck with that program.

    And if all you can do is yak ad hominem all day like Bill F-king O’reilly, about Ward Churchill’s blood quantum then, well, I hate to break it to you, but you sound exactly like Fox News as well as all the lame, ridiculous Nascar hillbilly morons and goons I come straight out of. Neitzche’s full flower of “Last Men”, whose entire purpose of being is to maintain their comfort and privilege and thereby destroy all life on earth.

    Thanks, but by now I can do my own comparative cultural analysis and one side is dead on arrival. I really thought that NBL was way beyond this sort of Rupert-Murdoch-Approved™ rhetoric. But I guess the empire is going to die a slow death and do it publicly online here too.

    OK son. Your battlements are aflame. Go put out the fire.
    Cheers and good day.

  • “In an NTE scenario it is of little to no significance what one’s ancestry or ethnicity was. All stiffs soon stink, and stink equally.”

    It depends how you look at it. For the past 500 years, owing to HIS awesome technology, the European has been accorded godlike status by the non-western world. With NTE, everything changes. Suddenly, the European is vulnerable like everybody else. Ironically, that humanizes the European, those alive and those long gone. The non-white world is at last able to feel empathy and compassion for the European. If one values meaning in life however brief, the NTE scenario is very significant indeed.

  • Henry: “in the 75 years since Hitler invaded Poland and 70 millions died? And now the neo-con savagery targets Russia.”

    Speaking of savagery, you omit any mention of Russia’s 1939 invasion of Poland, which resulted in atrocities such as the Katyn Forest Massacre. The Russian’s executed 30,000 Polish officers in an attempt to render impotent Poland’s ability to resist.

    There is no such thing as the good guys and bad guys

  • “Yet, unlike you, Guy is not eagerly awaiting for everyone to die so he can prove his point. “- GS

    No he just has as his header article a Suicide Prevention post. If there is any website on the net which concerns itself with the Dead & Dying, NBL is IT.

    Nothing but the Dead & Dying back on NBL

    On NBL
    I started believing
    Ulvfugl keeps his eye on us all
    And he used to lean upon me
    To keep the Batters all in thrall
    Lord I recall
    On NBL

    Signing on after work
    Driving my SUV past the signs
    of the Missionaries
    The world coming to an end
    Drinking the Kool-Aid
    On the way to the Great Beyond

    And after it rains
    There’s a rainbow
    And all of the colors are black
    It’s not that the colors aren’t there
    It’s just imagin-ation they lack
    Everything’s the same
    Back on NBL
    Nothing but the dead and dying
    Back on NBL
    Nothing but the dead and dying
    Back on NBL

    On NBL
    I never meant nothin’
    I was just doing Diner pluggin’
    Finding some readers
    Talking about collapse
    Twitching like the fingers
    on the keyboard of my laptop
    Leaving nothing but the dead and dying
    Back on NBL

    Repeat and fade:
    Nothing but the dead and dying
    Back on NBL

    Maybe Guy can start selling NTHE Derivatives.


  • @ RE
    On NBL
    I started believing
    Ulvfugl keeps his eye on us all

    My impression is that most people here have learned view YOU as little more than an irritating ignorant troll. For example, trying to smear Guy McPherson by trying to link this blog to Robin William’s suicide sums up the level of your credibility and morality, really. Fucking attention whore who has never actually grown any tomatoes or raised any fish who expects to be paid to tell young boys to go out and live all on their own in the wilderness for a year to see if they come back alive, to show how tough YOU are. Idiot.

  • Reverse Engineer, you keep misrepresenting my viewpoint. I’m beginning to think it’s purposeful. But probably you’re just stupid.

    I encourage people to embrace life. Your interpretation is the opposite. It’s really quite simple, and everybody else in this space understands. You’re alone in your incorrect viewpoint.

  • .
    If the shoe fits…

  • Guy

    You wrote:

    “….I’m beginning to think it’s purposeful.”

    Can you say what it is that you are beginning to think is purposeful?

    Just for me.


  • OzMan, I’m referring to the preceding sentence: “Reverse Engineer, you keep misrepresenting my viewpoint.”

  • Guy,

    but damn !!, I thought you may be talking about NTHE….or even human life.

    Silly me.


  • RE: Did you know that “Suicide Prevention” means it opposes suicide? It is not a suicide advocacy post.

    We’re all talking about life here. You’re the one hung up on death. Death is all you ever see.