Another Offer to Help

I’m raising lowering the stakes. My long-time offer to deliver presentations and help you make other arrangements is hereby modified: If you’re serious, I’ll speak, moderate, and participate for no charge to you. You’ll need to provide venue(s), a place to lay my head, the occasional bite to eat, and transportation. Additional information follows for prospective hosts.

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BREAKING NEWS

You’ve come to grips with near-term human extinction. It’s a lonely conclusion, one that interferes with many relationships. You want somebody with whom to discuss the most important topic in the history of our species. It seems most of your friends and family are in denial.

Now what?

In response to numerous requests, Pauline Schneider and I have developed a workshop to address this issue. The workshop follows naturally from my presentations. It’s the logical next step for those interested in pursuing healthy psyches and healthy relationships after concluding the worst.

Ms. Schneider and I began creating the workshop in January 2014. We facilitated various versions of the workshop and came up with a version we believe is quite good. Our current version distills hundreds of hours of scholastic reading, deep introspection, and facilitated practice into an eight-hour workshop.

This is not a grief-recovery workshop. Rather, it is a synthesis of our professional expertise in light of near-term human extinction. It is an active, interactive workshop focused on the topic of living fully in light of evidence pointing toward the near-term loss of habitat for humans on Earth.

If you are interested in hosting a workshop, please send an email message to NatureBatsLast2007@gmail.com. Subject line should state, without quotation marks, “workshop.” An all-volunteer team will step forward to assist with all logistical issues, and we will send a planning packet to the organizers to help streamline their work. The packet will include hosting advice, housekeeping advice, flyers, reading materials, links to reading materials and required viewing, and printable handouts.

Logistics

The workshop is titled, “Abrupt Climate Change: How Will You Show Up During Humanity’s Final Chapter?” It requires eight hours of time in a group of humans numbering between two and twenty (inclusive). We offer it online and in person, as described below.

A two-hour session on a weekday evening is followed by a six-hour session the following weekend. We ask that at least one full day pass between the workshop days (e.g., Wednesday and Sunday or Thursday and Saturday, but not Friday and Saturday).

We are strongly committed to offering a workshop that is valuable and valued. As such, we expect participants to be familiar with McPherson’s message. A short video clip and other germane information will be sent sufficiently far in advance for all participants to study the evidence before the workshop commences.

A local host will assume responsibility for securing and filling a venue (which may be a personal home). S/he also will be charged with local marketing and finances.

Cost

McPherson and Schneider both practice and promote a gift economy. As such, we will facilitate this workshop for a very low financial cost. We will deliver and facilitate the workshop in your venue for $1,500 and reasonable travel expenses (including food and lodging). The online version of the workshop is offered at $1,200. In the latter case, we will facilitate the workshop via Skype while participants are gathered in a single room.

Biographical Sketches of Facilitators

Guy McPherson is professor emeritus of natural resources and the environment at the University of Arizona, where he taught and conducted research for twenty award-winning years. His scholarly work, which has for many years focused on conservation of biological diversity, has produced a dozen books and hundreds of articles.

Guy developed a comprehensive set of durable living arrangements in response to the ongoing collapse of the industrial economy and global climate change. He shares property in a rural area developed specifically to provide abundant supplies of food and water as well as maintaining comfortable body temperature in the absence of fossil fuels.

Because the topics of his presentations often induce despair, Guy became a certified grief-recovery specialist in January 2014. The certification came from The Grief Recovery Institute.

Pauline Schneider, nee Panagiotou, was born in Nigeria and moved to Flushing Queens as a toddler, then back to Nigeria for only two years until her family was forced to leave due to the Biafra war. She was then raised in Greece until the age of 15, by which time she was fluent in Greek. At the age of 15 she moved to Texas with her parents and three younger siblings. She received her Associate’s Applied Science degree in Radio TV Production, and moved to Los Angeles where she met her future husband and father of her three children while working at Dream Quest. They raised their family in New York where she studied art and film at SUNY Purchase. She received her Bachelors in Sociology and Anthropology, Magna Cum Laude at Pace University and went on to receive her Master of Education in Social Studies with a focus on Special Education and Visual Arts, with honors.

Always interested in social justice and in protecting the environment as the home for human and non-human children, Pauline has been an activist for several decades. From 2011 to 2014 she was a core, organizing member of Transition Westchester Hub. In 2014 she completed her first feature documentary, Going Dark, a 30-minute film based on the work of Dr. Guy R. McPherson who lectures on abrupt climate change and near-term human extinction. In 1993 Pauline created a 10-minute documentary film at the State University of New York-Purchase, about a local fight to prevent the Department of Environmental Conservation from installing a toxic waste incinerator on the Hudson River.

An avid gardener, in 2005 she received certification from the New York Botanical Gardens in Landscape Design. Pauline is also a certified facilitator in Alternatives to Violence Project, a certified specialist in the Grief Recovery Method and holds New York state education certifications in Visual Arts, Social Studies, and Special Education.

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Conventional Hosting

If you’re reading this, you are likely considering the prospect of inviting me to visit to your area to speak and to help you make other arrangements. Herein, I offer some ideas and tools for a successful visit. You might want to read the perspective of a host from late 2012 in the wake of my departure.

In a nutshell, I will consult with you, in detail, about your living arrangements, focusing in particular on water, food, body temperature, and community. In return, I ask you to pay my travel expenses, provide me with food, lodging, and local transport, and perhaps assist me in setting up speaking engagements in your area.

I will spend a minimum of 2 days and a maximum of 10 days in a given location, depending on the number of venues arranged. I do not charge fees for speaking engagements or consultation services. I will, however, accept stipends from conferences and well-funded organizations. Although it is not expected, I will also accept gifts if deemed appropriate by my hosts.

Outreach to Groups/Venues

As the initiating host, you are an important part of the planning process. As a local resident, you are in a unique position to identify local groups that might be interested in hearing me speak and coordinating logistics. This is not an overwhelming project, even if you have never previously done something similar.

Identifying relevant groups/venues

1. Start with the low-hanging fruit. Are you already part of a group that you know would be interested in arranging a presentation? Launch into the planning process with them as a first step.

2. Ask friends to brainstorm with you about other interested groups/venues. If they can take on other tasks as well, that’s even better. Assembling a team of helpers to whom you can delegate tasks can be very effective.

3. Reach out to those “well-connected” people in your community, the ones who seem to know everyone and everything that’s going on.

4. Reach out to a wide variety of groups who might be interested. List all the groups you can think of, and then do more research to find others. Some groups you might consider approaching include:

“Green” or “sustainability” groups within larger institutions

Schools and universities

Libraries

Transition initiatives

Occupy groups

Permaculture guilds

Resilience circles

Voluntary simplicity groups

Producers of food (farmers, gardeners, and so on)

Religious groups

Activist groups focused on climate change and/or energy constraints

Sample text for outreach email message

Subject: gauging interest in inviting Guy McPherson to speak

Hello,

I’m writing with a request for your assistance. I’m a peak oil/climate change activist in [City, State], and I’m assisting Guy McPherson, a writer/speaker on climate change and energy depletion, in setting up speaking engagements throughout the region from [start date] to [end date]. I’m wondering if your group might be interested in his message and in providing a place for him to speak, or if you might know of other groups in [location] that might be interested.

I think Dr. McPherson’s message is compelling and would give the community plenty of food for thought. His blog, Nature Bats Last, can be found at guymcpherson.com and his writings and videos there can give you a sense of what his presentations are like, although each one is customized for the local audience. His book Walking Away from Empire details why and how he left his university position to live off-grid in the desert in New Mexico. (Online description and ordering information is found at Amazon, among other places. McPherson will provide electronic page proofs of the book.)

Thanks very much, and with appreciation for your work,
[your name]

Scheduling, booking locations, and record-keeping

From the beginning of this process, you will want to keep track of details. You probably have your own systems of managing logistics and record-keeping.

Items you will need to keep track of:

A list of those to whom you plan to reach out.

Where things stand with each of those people/groups (Have they been contacted? By whom, on what date, in what format? Any reply? What follow-up is needed?)

Persistent follow-up. Do not be discouraged by those people/groups that decline interest. Let them go. Continue politely pursuing those who express any level of interest. You may want to develop your own, personalized elevator speech about why you feel strongly about mu presentations and what you feel I can offer to your community.

If you are delegating responsibility to helpers, you need to check in with them regularly and get a detailed report of where logistics stand.

Confirmed dates and locations. I prefer to deliver one or two presentations per day, if possible. Depending on the geographic extent of the presentations, we will need to account for travel time.

Directions to each venue, and accounting for parking needs.

Planning meals (home or elsewhere).

Once a location is confirmed, find out what publicity the venue will provide; availability of electrical outlets/LCD projector/surface to project on; who will introduce me to the audience; and offer them a press release and/or text to use on their website or newsletter as well as a photo of me.

Publicity

Email lists, Facebook/Twitter, local media (newspapers, radio, television)

Accommodations

I am very flexible and need only simple accommodations, including a bed and meals. I reside in a warm region, so warm bedding in the winter is appreciated. I desire access to shower facilities daily and also customary meals. I will be very pleased if ice cream makes an occasional appearance on the menu.

Comments 310

  • I’m going right off topic.
    It’s raining here! The last time it rained here was July 14.
    Oh, happy day!

    Michael Irving

  • Hurrah for your rain, Mr. Irving! We too are in one of the drought disaster counties in America’s necropocultural bleakscaped “Breadbasket.” With people loosing trees from the drought, I was afraid of loosing a decade’s effort restoring a farm to natural fertility, until the sweet, sweet rain came.

    “For he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.” ~verse 48, chapter 2, The Jefferson Bible

    Hopefully the just got a little more 😉

  • oh my guts! GMOs destroying the digestive system? Someone is Rounding up humanity for the last games? Is this true? What of this is true? I could not watch in one session, had to stop to recuperate. Because this is not evil as a consequence of us being drunk on oil, or another tortuous incomprehensible reason, but this is evil consciously and voluntarily engineered for hubris and profit
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wnlTYFKBg18

  • Supplicating and gainsaying a deity contingent upon convenience reveals yet another layer of hypocrisy.

  • MB “…two miscarriages…crying my eyes out…I pleaded to God…”
    RD “…another layer of hypocrisy”

    “It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.”
    ~Jack Handey (Deep Thoughts, Saturday Night Live, 1992)

  • MB: “…drive that knife deep…”

    I’m afraid it’s worse, it’s the pointy end of the soft cushions for you…or next, the comfy chair! Confess thy hypocrisy!

    Nobody expects the Atheist Inquisition!

  • Well said, Robin. I had that thought too.

    Robin is offering you gifts, MB, flowers of deliverance, why do you imagine knives all the time ?

    Also, …I Mountain Bike, Run and Hike at least forty miles a week.

    That’s the energy that a person needs to have and use to be able to feed themselves, tilling soil and tending plants. Squandering it on recreational activity to ‘keep fit’ means you don’t get to eat…

  • MB : This infuriates me. They have us coming and going. There’s no way out, and I’m afraid there’s no edge of the empire. This thing engulfs everyone and everything at this point. There’s no escape…

    Havn’t you trapped yourself ? I mean, having children, living in a particular place. It’s very much a practical matter, strategic location.

    But also a psychological matter. Having defeatist thoughts such as the above is making the bars of your own prison.

  • Sticking Up For Morocco Bam!

    If you have ever read “The Road’ by Cormac McCarthy, it is clearly a line in the sand that the Man, and also the Boy, are making, a moral choice, as it were, not to eat people, even if they are already dead when they find them.

    Under pressure, humans will do many things that they normally wouldn’t.

    Regarding pleading to a Dieity, which has been the early cutural roots, but now discarded by many, in a time of panic and despiration does not require a knife being driven in, nor a confession of hypocracy.

    Morocco Bama was demonstrating his love for his wife and unborn child, and I would do the same, although to a different category of divine being in that case.

    Give the guy a break. You guys should be giving him some air time for it, he actually saved her.

    I hope Moroc didn’t promise something as a vow.(…to sacrifice all the beautiful golden bulls in his flock, like King Minos…)

    How can any of us be sure we wont give in to weaker moments, when we are faced with some horrors or other we ‘all”know’ are coming?

    During the famine in China last century they ate babies, and dead elderly – sometimes the elderly demanded their family eat them, so they would survive.
    It could be Soylent Green or Logans Run or both, who knows.

    A smart repsonsible person might recommend doing away with meat production, all excepting home poultry, as this would save a huge amount of energy in aggriculture and give over a lot of land to intensive vege farming.
    But that would take a smart responsible person in charge, …Yeah right.

    And don’t get me started on Steve Irwin.
    Germaine Greer virtually said he deserved to go the way he did, not that she was saying he deserved to die, just that he kept provoking wild animals for the cameras, and he got too close to a Male Manta Ray in the mating season.
    Crikey!

    Or perhaps he has joined Patrick Swayze, Michael Jackson, and Vitas Gerulaitis on their palatial elite floating barges in the Pacific. Awaiting the collapse among famous equals, and able to pay the half billion berth money, they will be joined by loved ones soon.

    On Steve Irwin, he joined up with his long time business partner,
    John Stainton, who saw an opportunity to both promote wildlife conservation, and make a lot of money. John was great at marketing, and after the success in the USA of Crocodile Dundee, and CD II they decided to pitch Steve initially as a Croc catcher, seeing they are so ‘dangerous’.
    I remember seeing footage of Steve before he teamed up with John, and he was pretty hopeless. finding his straps I suppose. On one occasion he was showing the audience how wonderful and ‘dangerous’ a canyon was, and he got stuck. He had to call out to Terri, and it took ages to get him out. Another one he was harassing snakes andd they weere not performing, so he had to ramp up the aggression , and he got bitten five times in a row.
    Crikey! that hurts.

    I liked him, as far as liking a TV 2D image goes, but he was cringeworthy with the Australian Vernacular. It is of little consequence now, but his biggest fans were children, and that means he was part clown, and part conservationist, but IMO Steve was no fool, he was aware of most of how he was portreyed, and to his credit I believe him when I heard him say in as many words, that if playing the fool helps conserve wildlife habitat, he didn’t care a hoot about his dignity. I suppose he enthused a lot of children to get into wild spaces.
    I salute you, Steve Irwin for that.

    A short spiv on Steve Irwin as a successful brand:

    http://www.sharpbusiness.nbm.com.au/newsview/why-the-world-loved-the-steve-irwin-personal-brand-9

    Crikey, it’s time for a Fos–rs.

  • A knife to the hypocrite; a flashlight to the contrite.

  • ulvfugl, i agree with mb. defeatist thoughts? come, now. u yourself regularly lament the sorry hopeless state of civilization. to criticize another on this blog for ‘defeatism’… the pot calling the kettle black.

    re. the genetic roulette video michelle provided a link to, (sigh) nothing new here. any aware sherson following amerikan politics, culture, and government is well aware of the corruption, the outsize influence of wealthy ‘special interests’, the regulatory agencies that serve the industries they’re supposed to be a watchdog over. it’s an old story, involving greed, and stupendous stupidity/ignorance. this time i disagree with mb. just as with fossil fuel industries and agw, the greedy ‘elites’ at monsanto and other big biotech companies are fucking up the planet for everyone, including themselves and their families. the amerikan sheeple are overwhelmingly complicit. amerikans have to be among the most misinformed/ignorant sheeple of the industrialized world re. matters of great importance. they provide essentially no resistance to corporate deceit/rule. many are on the corporate bandwagon. among those who aren’t, most support the democrats, who consistently sell out to special interests, rather than a truly anti-corporate, pro-environment party like the greens. sigh

  • Blackheath Major Snow Fall Event Summary – 12 Oct 2012

    This was a frequent occurrence in mid winter, say July in the 1960’s, and being snowed in for two weeks at a time was not unusual.
    But this is October!! Early to mid Spring.

    A combination of a low pressure system, and a cold front put out 15-20 cm of snow in 24 hrs.
    This is not the last of it either I suspect.
    This town is where I live, and I walked back from volunterring in the local co-op fodd store 12 km away. Normally I walk in, but got up too late and decided to walk back as it had stopped snowing. It was no further than I normally walk 4-5 days a week, but walking in the middle of the road past all the halted traffic was, to me, a taste of the world as it will soon be.
    I have many pictures, but all in my memory, whereever that is.

  • Oh, I forgot to mention snow has virtually disappeared her in mid winter now. When i moved in 13 years ago, we still had half day snow, but only light. When I was a boy in the lower Mountains we used to come up every 5 or so years when a big snow fall happened, but it was BAU with the week or two snowed in as I mentioned, back then.

    Maybe more moisture in the Southern Hemisphere this summer will bring more precipitation?
    Any guesses, even informed ones?

  • tvt : i agree with mb. defeatist thoughts? come, now. u yourself regularly lament the sorry hopeless state of civilization. to criticize another on this blog for ‘defeatism’… the pot calling the kettle black.

    Rubbish, tvt. Lamenting the coming extinction of most of the living things on this planet is an entirely separate issue from what MB was saying :

    “They have us coming and going. There’s no way out, and I’m afraid there’s no edge of the empire. This thing engulfs everyone and everything at this point. There’s no escape…”

    They don’t have ME coming and going, nor lots of others living around here, who are not engulfed at all. They have made conscious choices and worked out personal strategies and designed their lives so that they minimise any collaboration or cooperation with Empire or The System or The Matrix or whatever you want to call ‘it’.

    That doesn’t mean that any of us expect to change the course of events that the human species is following, towards its ending.

    I can’t speak for others on this, because everyone comes to terms with it in their own ways, but I fight every day, not because I expect to win or to achieve anything, or to change the world, but purely because it is the only right thing to do, morally, ethically.

    If you do things that you are ashamed of, you lose your self-respect. I like to keep my pride and my self-respect intact. I will not be defeated nor will I compromise. I can’t alter the fate of the human species and the imminent mass-extinction event, I don’t have that power. Does anybody ? All I can do is witness what is happening, and try to explain what is happening and what will happen as a consequence.

    I’m not in ‘the Empire’. Neither are lots of other people I know. They don’t eat GM shit food, they grow their own food. They resist in any and every way, and are not defeated or engulfed. It’s a practical matter, sort your life out, change your circumstances. Saying that is impossible is defeatism, and not true, when loads of people have done it and are doing, all around the world.

  • Very interesting scientific technical paper plus comments here on permafrost.

    Jeez, it makes me want to scream. NOBODY is putting all the pieces of the jigsaw together, to see the whole picture. All the scientists are zooming in on their own tiny tiny piece, as if that was independent of all the rest. For example, they work out how much CO2 might come from melting peat, but ignore the methane. They work out the feedback for methane, but forget the albedo feedback, and on and on…

    Nobody is taking a general over-view and giving us a clear picture of where this is all going… well, Guy tried, in the lecture above… there’s some great comments there, but they are nice, civilised, cautious, polite, studious scientists…but this won’t do.

    Someone has to start yelling about what is happening…

    Look, we are talking about EXTINCTION OF MOST LIVING THINGS ON THIS EARTH…

    Including US all, the 7 billion, and all the children…

    There’s something like twice as much carbon in the permafrost peat as there is in the whole atmosphere already… and it is coming out, and it’s going to be coming out much faster, and it is not going to stop, and along with all the other feedbacks that are NOT in the climate models… we are looking, IMO, at ppm going way, way up, thousands… that cooks everything…

    http://www.skepticalscience.com/Macdougall.html

  • I mean, Paul Kingsnorth started Dark Mountain, which was a good thing to do, as a meeting place for people to contemplate the collapse if civilisation, etc.

    But his personal vision, if I’ve read him correctly, in UK, is that we’ll all be living much the same way for many decades to come… and he claims that Derek Jensen is ineffective because he is ‘too strident’, and that turns people off…

    I’ve had enough. We are nit going to get the ‘decades of much the same’, we’re going to get a totally awful horror show, and as for ‘turning people off’, it hardly seems relevant, when they are all going to die, along with most other living things…

    Am I supposed to worry about other people’s feelings and sensitivities, when we face a global catastrophe of this magnitude ? I mean, what’s a proportional and appropriate response ?

    Everything that everyone has envisaged as their ‘future’, is wrong, it’s all got to change and is going to change, because of events, the impact of what is ahead is just unbelievably horrible…..

  • Here’s another expert with a dire warning within 5 yrs.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2217774/The-Armageddon-virus-Why-experts-fear-disease-leaps-animals-humans-devastate-mankind-years.html

    Armageddon: Scientists have warned that a global viral outbreak is inevitable within five years

    (excerpts from article)

    One leading British virologist, Professor John Oxford at Queen Mary Hospital, University of London, and a world authority on epidemics, warns that we must expect an animal-originated pandemic to hit the world within the next five years, with potentially cataclysmic effects on the human race.

    The terrifying fact is that viruses that manage to jump to us from animals — called zoonoses — can wreak havoc because of their astonishing ability to catch us on the hop and spread rapidly through the population when we least expect it.

    They die because of something called a ‘cytokine storm’ — a vast overreaction of their strong and efficient immune systems that is prompted by the virus.
    This uncontrolled response burns them with a fever and wracks their bodies with nausea and massive fatigue. The hyper-activated immune system actually kills the person, rather than killing the super-virus.

    Professor Oxford bases his prediction on historical patterns.

    On top of this, our risk of catching such deadly contagions from wild animals is growing massively, thanks to humankind’s relentless encroachment into the world’s jungles and rainforests, where we increasingly come into contact for the first time with unknown viral killers that have been evolving and incubating in wild creatures for millennia.

    Someone who has an infectious case of a new and potentially lethal strain of flu can be walking about innocently spluttering it over everyone around them for days before they become incapacitated.

    But the Professor is worried our politicians are not taking this certainty of mass death seriously enough.

    Such laxity could come at a human cost so unprecedentedly high that it would amount to criminal negligence. The race against newly-emerging animal-derived diseases is one that we have to win every time. A pandemic virus needs to win only once and it could be the end of humankind.

  • When deciding whether some action is just greed or whether it is an attempt at depopulation, remember that they have the perfect depopulation weapon. They have the smallpox. from wiki “By 1986, routine vaccination had ceased in all countries.[3] It is now primarily recommended for laboratory workers at risk for occupational exposure.[18]” and “Studies of smallpox cases in Europe in the 1950s and 1960s demonstrated that the fatality rate among persons vaccinated less than 10 years before exposure was 1.3%; it was 7% among those vaccinated 11 to 20 years prior, and 11% among those vaccinated 20 or more years prior to infection. By contrast, 52% of unvaccinated persons died.[37]” Virtually everyone born after 1986 is unvaccinated and no further culling of the population by the disease itself has occurred. The US and Russia and probably other countries have both the smallpox germs and the vaccine. Any country releasing it can blame it on another country.

    Now given that, it seems reasonable to assume that most of the supposed plots are not attempts at depopulation as they have in their hands the perfect depopulation device. Unless it can be shown that there are places where nothing but non GMO corn etc are grown exclusively for the powers that be, the theory that GMO’s are for depopulation does not hold water. The theory that they are for profit fits the facts better. IMHO

    However with the Artic ice going, unless TPTB have a planet to escape to we are all going to be depopulated by nature in the near future.

    Glaciers cracking in the presence of carbon dioxide https://arctic-news.blogspot.ca/2012/10/glaciers-cracking-in-the-presence-of-carbon-dioxide.html#more

    Also to keep GMO’s in perspective, I checked in the grocery store and virtually all the dry dog food has Corn and Soy at the front end of the list of ingredients. Which means that most of the dogs in the US have been feed GMO’s from the time they were born. My dog is 10 and still runs down squirrels and rats most of the day every day. I have never had to take her to the vet for a single illness. I have passed on the Genetic Roulette film to many and think it is worth watching, but it is good to not let it get you into a panic.

  • ulvfugl: I’m not in ‘the Empire’.

    LOL, just like the Amish/Mennonite imagine they are “separate from the world,” even while governments invite them inside their borders because they are such good agrarians, that is, essential drones in agricultural civilization Empire culture.

    • Do you pay taxes? You’re in the Empire.
    • Do you pay rent to a landlord? You’re in the Empire.
    • Do you use dollars? You’re in the Empire.
    • Do you have a Social Security number? You’re in the Empire.
    • Do you have a driver’s license? You’re in the Empire.
    • Do you use a clock and calendar? Oh yeah.

    You’re in, deep, like a fish is in water.

  • MB: “I would never dare feign not be a hypocrite…”

    I concur; the agricultural city-State already killed off the last non-hypocrite at Wounded Knee.

    Hypocrisy is an adaptation necessary to avoid being slaughtered in the worldwide open-air prison called civilization.

    “Civilization originates in conquest abroad and repression at home.” ~Stanley Diamond, In Search of the Primitive: A Critique of Civilization, p. 1, first sentence

    “He that is without sin among you, let him be the first to cast a stone.” ~verse 7, chapter 8, of The Jefferson Bible

  • What a load of self-serving egotistical tripe that is, MB.

    I would never dare feign not be a hypocrite….I am one…we all are, it’s just a matter of degree.

    No, we are not. I walk my talk.

    …the example I provided was not a conscious and willing act on my part.

    So do the work and integrate the various parts of your psyche so that they are in harmony, whether conscious or unconscious. Clear out the cultural conditioning.

    Like I said on previous threads, you want to claim high status, prominence and authority for yourself, but you have not done the work.

    I find your frequent choice of references to being pierced by knives very odd.

  • Ivy Mike,

    • Do you pay taxes? You’re in the Empire.
    No.
    • Do you pay rent to a landlord? You’re in the Empire.
    No.
    • Do you use dollars? You’re in the Empire.
    Minimal ( £ )
    • Do you have a Social Security number? You’re in the Empire.
    Yeah, they are assigned at birth
    • Do you have a driver’s license? You’re in the Empire.
    Expired. I have not been in a car for many years.
    • Do you use a clock and calendar? Oh yeah.
    Clock doesn’t impinge on my life, but it’s there on my lap top, if I need to know.
    Calendar doesn’t impinge on my life. Rarely makes any difference what day it is.

    Want to try again ?

  • Ivy Mike, there’s several ways that I am connected to The MegaMachine, Empire, Matrix, whatever you want to call it… landline for phone and internet to buy stuff, drugs for illness, being on google earth with a registered address, a few others, but none of it really effects my daily freedom to do as I please nor does it intrude into my being. I take whatever I may need from it, i don’t serve it in any way, or feel constrained by it.

  • Why should I “try again?” I just succeeded in demonstrating how you’re in the Empire, even if only “minimally.”

    In fact, that’s the point MB is making, you can only minimize your involvement with agricultural civilization, not eliminate it.

    There is no purity, anywhere. But there always is a puritanical holier-than-thou Church Lady, sniping at “sinners.” Yep, same social behavior pattern.

    “Well, isn’t that special?”

  • Here’s a case in point (to the article i linked to above) – one “nobody has even heard about yet” though it’s been around for a while:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/14/kidney-disease-killing-sugar-cane-workers-central-america

    (from article)
    It goes by many names, but around here they call it “the malady of the sugar cane”. It’s a quiet epidemic that has been preying on Central America for at least 20 years, killing impoverished landworkers in their tens of thousands across Nicaragua, Costa Rica, El Salvador and Guatemala. And it is becoming ever more deadly. Between 2005 and 2009, incidents in El Salvador rose by 26%. By 2011 the chronic kidney disease (CKD) that is killing Edilberto had become the country’s second-biggest killer of men.

    That year the health minister, María Isabel Rodríguez, made a dramatic appeal to the international community for help, telling them: “It is wasting away our populations.” But nobody knows what to do about it, because nobody knows what exactly it is. In the wealthier west, CKD is largely caused by hypertension or diabetes, but most of the victims here have neither. And it attacks the kidneys in an unusual way. Rather than damaging the filtering system, as in ordinary CKD, this disease seems to have an impact on the tubules – the part of the kidney where the composition of the urine is determined. At the moment, the only scientific consensus is that it’s real, and unexplained. I have travelled to El Salvador to investigate the mystery of the malady.

    Since its discovery, a near-silence has cocooned the disease – a situation that has benefited the industry that so many victims work for. Profitable and vast, Central America’s sugar-cane industry supplies 23% of the US’s raw sugar imports. In 2011 the EU imported El Salvadorian sugar worth more than €4.7m: it is the country’s second-biggest export. The companies themselves say they are not to blame. Nicaragua Sugar Estates, one of Central America’s largest plantations, has conducted internal studies, and one in 2001 pointed to “strenuous labour with exposure to high environmental temperatures without an adequate hydration programme” as an important factor. Still, in December spokesman Ariel Granera told the Washington-based Centre for Public Integrity: “We’re convinced that we have nothing to do with kidney disease. Our productive practices do not generate and are not causal factors for CKD.”

    But an increasing number of researchers in the US now believe the CKD is being caused by heat stress and dehydration – that the labourers are, in effect, working themselves to death. A standard day for an El Salvadorian sugar worker lasts between four and five hours, with double shifts during the summer planting season, when temperatures top out at 40C.

    “It’s suffocating,” Edilberto says. “In the five hours there’s no break. Many of my workmates have fainted in the fields. Sometimes they vomit, too.” Water, he says, is not supplied. “I bring my own. Perhaps two to three litres.”

    As I toured the villages I heard many accounts of barbaric suffering beneath the equatorial heat.

    (It couldn’t POSSIBLY be from the chemicals they’re spraying though, right?)

  • none of it really effects my daily freedom to do as I please

    Try gamboling about plain and forest, and live only by hunting and gathering the proverbial free lunch off the land that nobody “owns,” like Non-State human society did.

    But you can’t.

    That’s because you’re irrevocably in State society (civilization, or Empire culture) and Non-State lifeways are quite effectively prohibited. The last people in our western industrial society attempting to live Non-State lifeways off the land were slaughtered at Wounded Knee.

    I applaud what you’re doing, ulvfugl, it’s all good, but you’re coming across like the puritan Oliver Cromwell.

  • MB : I call myself a hypocrite, and that is categorized as egotistical?

    No. The lump of sophistry you presented to justify yourself was the egotistical part.

    Great big vulnerable fragile ego, must be preserved and kept inflated, at all costs…

    Sufi saying, ‘self justification is worse than the original crime’

  • Ivy Mike : Try gamboling about plain and forest, and live only by hunting and gathering the proverbial free lunch off the land that nobody “owns,” like Non-State human society did.

    But you can’t.

    I’ve done it, I’ve tried it. It’s incredibly hard, because there’s nothing much left, it’s all farmed. When people last lived only that way, maybe 5 -7000BC here, mesolithic hunter gatherers, they had a huge area rich in every kind of plant, animal, bird. I think it was a relatively easy life, for a very small population.

    But I don’t want to roam far, I’m old, I’m more than content to stick to my patch, but there’s nothing stopping me from going 50 miles into the mountains and beyond…

    That’s because you’re irrevocably in State society (civilization, or Empire culture) and Non-State lifeways are quite effectively prohibited. The last people in our western industrial society attempting to live Non-State lifeways off the land were slaughtered at Wounded Knee.

    I applaud what you’re doing, ulvfugl, it’s all good, but you’re coming across like the puritan Oliver Cromwell.

    Hahahaha, Cromwell ? Never been compared to him before… someone once accused me of being like Cpt. Bligh of the Bounty, fwiw 😉

    The last time people lived like N. American Indians was like I said, mesolithic, then came neolithic farmers, then bronze age, iron age, Romans, and then the Christan Era AD, etc, Anglo-saxons, Vikings, Normans, etc…

    I’m not quite sure how I arrived in this argument with you… sure, the Imperial US machine extends to Europe and has it’s sub-office in the City of London, which may even wag the dog at times… I found a niche under the radar, as have many others I know of… but the ideal, as I see it, is not to be isolated and independent as I am ( zen hermit ), but to build local self-sufficient communities… there’s no way to go to primitivist hunter gathering here, everything has gone pretty much, too many people.. permaculture… doesn’t solve the major doom problem, but it’s a hole in the imperial net… main problem leaving Empire is money, why ? to get food. Okay, grow your own, get chickens, and goat…

  • MB : How dare you presume that I’m not doing the work.

    Not saying you’re not doing, saying you have not DONE, which is apparent and obvious in everything you’ve said on this forum.

  • MB : That’s a lazy argument, ulvfugl. meaning it’s not an argument or rebuttal. I could easily label anything you say as sophistry and dismiss it, but that wouldn’t be hard work, would it? You’re engaging in typical tried and true internet debating tactics. It’s hollow. You have nothing, and that’s why you resort to it. It’s transparent. Once you’ve done that, it’s not worth carrying on the conversation. You and Robin won’t admit you’re wrong and misguided, so what’s the point? My points have been made. Ivy Mike understood, and I’m sure others have also.

    It’s not any sort of argument, MB, it’s an observation of fact, and you now go on to demonstrate its truth, by ever more of the same sophistry, trying to defend your punctured ego.

  • A lot of content you have mentioned before, but a considderably succinct delivery, and I feel it is something many newcommers to your work and thesis of collapsing Empire, and living locally, ‘hear’ above the ‘noise’.
    Hat is off.

  • MB : It’s painfully obvious that no one posting to this forum has DONE the hard work. If anyone had, they wouldn’t be posting here. Come down off your high horse….that’s part of the hard work process, ulvfugl.

    Not so. I began the hard work many decades ago, and kept with it ever since. I know of what I speak. What that has to do with posting here, I have no idea. perhaps you’ll explain.

  • MB : ulvfugl, I feel sympathy and empathy for you. At first, you aroused anger in me, and I debased myself….in hypocritical fashion…but I’ve been working hard, and now I pity you. You don’t make me angry anymore. Now, you make me laugh at your contradictions….and then I feel shame for laughing at someone who is so deluded.

    But that’s just a reflection of your vanity and illusion, like your ignorant remark about proselytising eastern religion -for one, zen has nothing to do with any geographical location, which I’ve explained to your before, but you are a slow learner, – second, I’m not trying to persuade you or anyone to favour zen, I couldn’t care less about that, unless I’m asked for specific advice – the ‘doing the work’ is just basic timeless wisdom, ‘know thy self’, and it is hard work and takes time, and you have not done it.

    As for your sympathy, empathy, anger, etc, etc, and all the other crap, that’s all in your head, has nothing to do with me whatsoever, you’re the one who lives with all that junk, not me.

  • Ozman, I know of what I speak.

    ulvfugl, meet your ego. You two have to acknowledge one another if you’re to make any progress.

    Rubbish, Ozman. It’s not egotism. I’m not boasting. It’s a statement of fact, like saying I can ride a bike.

  • Sorry, that should have been addressed to MB, not Ozman.

  • ulvfugl and Morocco Bama, stop fighting.

    This is the third time in a ROW that you’ve seen fit to fight each other in the comments section. We have precious few oases of reason on the Internet as it is. We don’t need you fighting each other instead of actually discussing the article.

  • MB : …my ego has been punctured so many times, it’s nearly impossible to fill it up again….if even only temporarily.

    One tiny pin prick, and you rise up roaring with indignation and write long, long convoluted screeds in defense of what ? Your immaculate perfection ?

  • MB I feel pity for you. I think statements like this are the result of brain damage.

    Well, that makes an interesting change from telling me to kill myself and accusing me of being a rapist, I suppose…

  • Enough, enough, enough, enough!

    This isn’t going to go anywhere! Pretty soon this is going to de-volve into endless “I know you are but what am I?” routines like the politicians who currently run the country.

  • MB : You are referring to my postings at this blog….and, you have stated on other threads, and please don’t make me look it up because it is there, I assure you, that all you are, and therefore all we are, is what we post to this blog. So posting to this blog has everything to do with everything….in your own words, or in the least, implied by your own words.

    It wouldn’t be the first time you’ve completely misunderstood and misinterpreted someone’s comment would it. It’s plainly obvious to any child that there is someone at the other end of the comment who has a personality and a life, unless it’s from a spam bot. That’s beside the point that you were making that people only post here because they don’t ‘know themselves’, if that’s what you meant.

  • Crud, sorry. I wrote that second comment before I realized Morocco Bama was typing a reply to me. My apologies.

  • Morocco Bama

    You wrote:

    “It’s painfully obvious that no one posting to this forum has DONE the hard work. If anyone had, they wouldn’t be posting here.”

    Got to be the arrogant comment of the month.

    Mighty big shovel you are moving the shit around with now MB.

    How in the jive-blueberry-camel-flea-infested-testicles-neverending-story board-spew-bucket could YOU know what anyone else has DONE. I will not fall for the bait and discourse here on my own pintsized worldly achievments, but your logic is somewhere up a hippos arse Mate, jostling for room with the frogs that are way ahead of you.

    You are clearly trying to bait your usual sparining partner again and fouling an otherwise OK thread.

    Are you just bored, and are you the ‘type’ who needs to provoke with comparitive immunity?

    You still haven’t addressed my earlier question about community, belonging and obligations, and needing support when attacked.
    Too hard for you?
    It is diversionary tactics that make me suspect other agendas here. Either some pathology, or immaturity of mind, regardless of your real world relations and delivery of those responsibilities, or perhaps other motives, which I dare not speculate about.

    What the hell is wrong with you(r online avatar)?

    We have a hooting owl that never shuts up here more bareable than your attempts to provoke sparring. The owl is so persistant now almost 24/7, our kids now refer to it as ‘the pornstar’ owl, because it sounds like a degraded ‘endless moaning porn bitch'(their words) fully resonant with the bordome of endless faked sexual arousal and ‘just another work moment’ ennui. ( I couldn’t bring myself to ask how they knew what a porn star sounds like because the answer is so obvious).

    And I’m saying that ‘our’ pornstar owl is more stimulating than your contributions that are designed to provake.
    Your other contributions are bloody great.
    That is just some comments about your views, not you. Bleat that shit if you want to, you will for certain. But no one is getting anything from it, only you, IMO.

    That’s why I used the word ‘pathology’ earlier as a possibility, not a certaninty.

    There is one last possibility. You are in shock about the end of life/humaniy/species. etc. and just can’t cope.
    Help us understand, please….

  • Re the topic, I spent most of last night ranting about it on my blog forum

    http://www.monsangelorum.net/?topic=deadly-serious&paged=6#post-5052

    What more is there to say ? We are heading into a mass extinction event, much faster than anyone realises. The people with the power to make decisions to avoid this, are ignorant, clueless and irresponsible, if not evil, and just intend business as usual.

    Welcome to the future that isn’t.

  • @MB:

    Stewart Smalley is in the house! I just about pissed my primitive-tanned loin cloth! Awe hell, I’m just wearing jeans from Chinamart. But Sweet Jesus, after watching this exchange today, I think I’ll just go to a openly shallow small group. Because when things get too deep, hey, people drown. LOL!

  • Funny how the steriotype Librarian shushes all who are distracting others with loud talking. Seems Librarian here is doing the same thing and broker a respectful blogspace. Good luck with that.

  • Ivy MIke

    Re.shallow group.

    where do I Sign Up?
    Very funny, great moment. LOL

  • It would be really great if someone here more proficient with mathematics than myself could check the numbers and facts…

    As I am understanding it, one kg of frozen peat melts and rots and releases enough CO2 and methane to heat the atmosphere by an amount that is more than enough to melt another kg of frozen peat.

    That means – well, depends a bit on definition – a runaway feedback mechanism.

    There’s thousands and thousand of square miles of permafrosted peat all around the north of Canada and Siberia, and it’s melting. It’s many metres deep, and I’ve read one estimate that it easily contains twice as much carbon as is already in the atmosphere.

    So it looks to me as if, over a period, all that carbon is coming out, as methane and CO2, and if I understand it right, with all the OTHER contributing runaway feedbacks, like albedo, loss of forests, methane hydrates, etc, we get way up into the thousands of ppm CO2 in the atmosphere, over a matter of decades.

    Anybody who thinks that humans and most living things will survive that dramatic and rapid change, doesn’t understand ‘the predicament’…

    But maybe I’m wrong or misinformed on this ?

  • It’s possible that global warming could mitigate the chill of Nuclear Winter, which is “virtually inevitable:

    • “…nuclear war virtually inevitable.” ~Dr. Martin E. Hellman, Stanford University
    • “…world nuclear war remains inevitable…” ~Carol Moore
    • “…nuclear war becomes a mathematical certainty…” ~Helen Caldicott
    “Most in the civilized world are blissfully unaware that we are marching ineluctably towards an increasingly likely pre-emptive nuclear war.” ~F. William Engdahl
    • “War is one of the constants of history and has not diminished with civilization or democracy. In the last 3,411 years of recorded history only 268 have seen no war.” ~Will and Ariel Durant
    • “…we should not hesitate in launching nuclear war because there is no solution except this.” ~Nawa-e Waqt

    Does somebody have a little bugle to play some TTAPS?

  • Robin Datta,

    Re: Your comment at October 14th, 2012 at 5:53 pm

    Wisdom and compassion–the two wings that work together to enable flying.

    Michael Irving

  • MB: It’s painfully obvious that no one posting to this forum has DONE the hard work.

    You’re welcome to visit the mud hut. You’ll learn all about hard work. To gain partial understanding of what I’ve done, though, you’ll first have to give up your beloved life and livelihood and walk away from all your colleagues, friends, and family.

  • I posted this already at the end of the previous thread I think…

    Technical scientific paper on permafrost emissions plus some good comments

    Runaway greenhouse effect, everything gets cooked…. so, what do we do ?  Scream ?

  • Guy : …you’ll first have to give up your beloved life and livelihood and walk away from all your colleagues, friends, and family.

    Been there, done that, got the T shirt, it’s worn away to nothing…

    No regrets, either 😉

    Effing headache medicine, Prednisolone was no good, attacks are worse than ever, so now I try something called Epilin, good old British NHS, the best thing the Gvt ever did in this country…

  • checked the comments when I woke up. they went from 7 to 65 since I went to bed (after 4 hours with no electricity). and what do I see? all guys, guys, guys, (well, 4 or 5 guys really) arguing endlessly on their oil fueled computers about how much they are part or not of the empire. sigh.
    still, i’m drawn to NBL.

    Gails’ last post: http://witsendnj.blogspot.ca/2012/10/torches-of-freedom.html
    (torches of freedom being the name given by Freud’s nephew (inventor of public relations) to cigarettes, when the tobacco industry asked him at the beginning of his incredible career to find a way to make the women smoke. explained at the beginning of 4 hours of “engineering consent” bbc videos at the end of the post.) see you guys. I hope…

  • Guy says, “all about hard work”

    Work. Double, double toil and trouble.

    “To the Greeks, work was a curse and nothing else. Their name for it – ponos – has the same root as the Latin poena, sorrow. The famous Old Testament curse on agriculture as the expulsion from Paradise reminds us of the origin of work.”
    ~John Zerzan, Agriculture: Demon Engine of Civilization

    If sustainability is equivalent to sorrow, is there any wonder it doesn’t sell well?

    How can we make sustainable sexy?

    Two propositions—“Good for me! Good for the planet!”—must be creatively melded into one. ~Marc Stoiber | Making sustainability sexy, from an ad man’s point of view | Grist | Dec. 1, 2005

  • Morocco Bama

    Having had some contact in a school setting with teenagers who could possibly have a better life doing something else, and are essentially captive, I recall endless number of children who just demand attention, and it doesn’t matter how they do it. In this sense they distract others from just getting to be in some otherwise fashion. Either engaging in the set topic of the lesson, or quietly tuning out and flying to where they wish unnoticed by all about. But the kid who needs some help, and I mean some real adult guidence, is so disruptive not even the daydreamers can get a go.
    I didn’t say I could proscribe the topic of discussion, but in doing all the song and dance you are, its always about you, or how even the nihlistic playing field is. All views are equal so there is no superior topic, so why not pick fights on a regular basis?
    If you accept we are all fucked, nuked, over-cooked, and otherwise FUBARed it is not a logical consequence that nothing one says or does does not matter. Far from it it then means far more because it is an opportunity to drop the usual bullshit and hang out at a realer level.
    Perhaps not the ‘encounter group’ level seen in the cleche shallow group, but one where you can get to be realer too, which really means ORDINARY, just like everybody else on the planet. There are no bigshots before Death. Death is the best leveller we know of.
    That mortal threat can be an awakening to a greater calling to engage life from the heart, and take the wounds of others as oneselve’s, not as a martyr, but as a sensitive human who can understand what really motivates us all.
    It may not seem so, but I suggest this is just a stage of anger, and defiance at the root level in the mind. We are all pissed off that its going to be curtains, but it is anyway, for each of us, so how about you try being nice, and keep your integrity as well. They are not mutually exclusive. And no amount of truculance is going to wake us up, for we are already awake to the shit coming down the pipe.

    People who are always ‘fitting themselves to another’s cup’ have not yet plumbed thier own depth, usually from fear of what they would find.

    Dive in MB, you will find a big heart beats in there, and love for all will dry up the mental frustration of not being able to solve the problems with the mind. The mind is just not the organ to do the Heart’s work, and loving and healing is the heart’s work, as well as bringing the true connections to others. The wish for invulnerability, and freedom, is the illusion of a well developed mind that wants to master it all. The mind must be surrendered also. Not destroyed, but put back in the tool box at times and another tool used.

    I count it as a sobering occurrence where I have witnessed people of all races, religions, ethnic and cultural traditions drop all discrimination and distrust in each other when confronted with the demand to grow spiritually. When the life path you choose is one of surrendering what you have between you and your True Self, then the emphasis in daily life is to see and love all beings, and the role of separation, alienation, and conflict is also surrendered as an outmoded way of relating to others. Who are others really?
    We have no idea, so stop judging everyone as having nothing worthy of contributing.

    You can fuck the sandpit up, shit in it if you like, as many times as you want, but others who value such an arena, will simply rake it clean again and get out some marbles, bucket and start afresh.
    For someone as highly intellegent as you clearly are, it is gobsmacking to me your views regarding others desire to play for fun, not for points, in the sand pit are disregarded.
    What can anyone do about the Mega Death thing?
    Start by getting on with your neighbours. Many, if not all have DONE a thing or two.
    Does that make them more or less worthy of respect?

  • Tom, Thanks for that article on the cane workers. Here is another perspective on the cane workers. When the ERoEI is calculated for fuel, if gasoline or diesel is used say to grow or process corn it is counted as energy in. Human labor is never counted as energy in although the workers also use fuel. Just because it is food that fuels the workers doesn’t make it any less important an energy input. But this keeps ethanol from cane in Brazil as having a better ERoEI than corn in the US. So how much energy do workers put in?

    Enough to cut up to 12 TONS of cane a day

    While pesticides may be the cause of of CKD among cane workers I cannot help believe that the workload is also a factor. Whatever we need to stop fueling cars with ethanol and we need to stop poisoning ourselves with sugar (30 years refined sugar free and glad of it) Ah well we are done for anyway Macht nichts ….

    http://www.oilcrisis.com/br/SugarCaneWorkers.htm

    “Cutting sugar cane is a physical exhausting task that demands a high level of muscular strenght and resistance. Vigorous men – and women – take this job under stressful conditions and use their force to the level of exhaustion, as they are paid by production – not by earning fixed wages. An average man can cut 8 tons of burnt cane stalks per day. Some push themselves much more and reach 12 tons/day. This extreme effort has leaded some of them to sudden death (12 cases reported in 2005).

    When the sugar cane field is not submited to fire, an average man can only cut 3 tons/day and record holders barely surpass 6 ton/day. Burning cane also serve to kill or remove poisonous animals, as snakes. Because they get more tons/day and are free from snakes and the cutting edges of dry leaves of the plants, cutters prefer to operate in burnt cane fields.

    When a property is Organic Certified, it is FORBIDDEN to burn its sugar cane. Then not only cutting yields are smaller, but salaries have to be higher, to compensate for the yield difference compared to burnt cane. In pratical terms, organic farmers pay the same as farmers that burn their cane, but get 50% or less of the mass of stalks for their money. They also have to invest in special clothes and protective glasses and boots, to protect workers from dry cane leaves, snakes and spiders. Manual harvest is an expensive part of costs for small size organic cane farms. That is why we’re now working in the development af an electrical manual tool to perform the manual cutting of unburnt cane or ‘green cane’, that may increase yields by 70% and reduce fatigue by 60%. Of course, manual cut of sugar cane is not an adequate task for a human being. it is inhuman, so it has to be performed by machines. And machines that do not devore oil.”

  • “Sustainability is a myth”

    But of course, I’ve said so myself. Point conceded.

    But please address my point: the work, the sorrow.

    Questions clarified:

    If living-on-the-land/permaculture/wildcrafting (or whatever you call your efforts) is equivalent to sorrow, how well will it sell?

    How can we make permaculture sexy?

  • MB regressed into petulant brat mode again.

  • @MB: I don’t think you should take Guy literally; take his words literarily. He’s just using the same language another Greek cynic dropout street preacher used in the Levant 2000 years ago in his struggle against Empire culture, to illustrate how attached people are to the system, and how some ties are inevitably broken.

    “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” ~Luke 14:26

    Although Thomas Jefferson did leave that controversial passage out of his edition, so perhaps there is a more constructive way to iterate the message both Guy and Jesus are trying to convey.

  • MB : ..punish the dissenter…

    You’re not dissenting, MB, you’re just displaying infantile attention-seeking ego behaviour patterns that probably served you well, long ago as a child. It’s not appropriate in an adult. Time to grow up.

  • It appears to me, with my small little brain, that anarchy is just another word for allowing entitled males to dominate.

    Been there, seen that. Life is too fucking short.

  • MB, I have no pension, as I’m pointed out several times in this space. Your comment referred to work, not life. They both end at the same time.

    wildwoman, please don’t confuse anarchy with comments in this space.

  • YM says: But please address my point: the work, the sorrow.

    I will give a little talk in a women’s center next week about the witches hunts of the middle ages (that happened at the same time with beginning of capitalism, where the rulers had to force the people to abandon their pagan lives based on nature cycles to convince them to work 7 days a week like slaves and make millions babies/workers). I say that this persucution of women was part of the plan to debase the midieval society. The witches hunt also happened concurrently with: slave trade, conquest of the new world (who was portrayed as a whole like a witch), little ice age (the worst hunts correspond with periods of very bad cold weather, like 2 years of fertility in a period of 20 years, where the lack of scientific understanding, and the profound human impulse TO DO SOMETHING about it led to scapegoating), and much much more. Interesting fact: the places where the hunts were led by civil governments were much worse off than the places where it was the religious powers that burnt the witches. all this to say that it took a lot to force people to “work” as we understand “work” today. this is all only a glimpse of course, like all comments are.

    I am still in Gail’s last post where I opened the link http://regmorrison.edublogs.org/files/2012/06/Population-4b-13by0yr.pdf

    all that while watching the very sick maple trees in my windows.

  • @MB:

    I don’t count Guy or Jesus as the Messiah, neither would either of they themselves.

    Paul the Apostle turned the Greek cynic dropout street preacher Jesus into the dying rising-rising solar deity “Messiah.” Jesus (or whatever person(s) he is based on) would have as been aghast as Brian in the Life of Brian. “How shall we fuck-off, oh Lord?” LOL!

    Jesus’ anarcho-primitivism is well-documented by Mennonite theologian Ched Myers in two essays, The Fall, and Anarcho-Primitivism and the Bible, published in the Encyclopedia of Religion and Nature, Continuum, 2005, edited by Bron Taylor, Professor of Religion and Nature at The University of Florida.

  • Ah, michele/m, what a horrible time that was indeed,
    but they never managed to catch us all 😉

    The Merry Sisters of Fate

  • Ivy Mike, I doubt anybody in this country will ever view difficult physical work, including permaculture, as sexy or desirable. As a result, I suspect many people will choose to die rather than give up life in the cubicle.

  • ulvfugl, Morocco Bama, how many friggin’ times do I have to tell you to not keep insulting each other?

    Brat, huge ego, carrying CEO’s jock strap, give it a rest!

    If you can’t respectfully point out flaws in each other’s reasoning without resorting to name-calling, then both of you be quiet!

    Seriously, Guy McPherson, I love how free you allow the comments to be, but can’t we call a moratorium on personal remarks in the comments section?

  • Out on the torn and ragged fringes of Empire where I live, the System really can’t be bothered to devote resources to enforcing rules upon an elusive and resistant bunch of people who are no use to it whatsoever… they’re all as slippery as fish and masters of shapeshifting and evasion…

    It’s partly a cultural thing, the Welsh have been oppressed and exploited by English authorities for a 1000 years and more, so they’ve sussed out very effective means of turning the tables, without getting themselves into any trouble they don’t need. It’s embedded into the language and culture, comes with mother’s milk.

    As I see it, the Matrix enforces the rules harshly in the urban slave farms, because it needs workers for the corporate sector, but out here in the wilds, they are very much at a disadvantage.

    It’d be different if someone contested their self-given right to use violence, like Ted K. did. I mean, one definition of a State, is that it gives itself the power to commit violent, and other, crimes, without itself being liable to suffer any penalty. So, it’s just a legal mafia protection scheme in fancy dress really. In UK it’s been fairly benign for a long time, because it’s easy fro the 1% to buy themselves peace by handing out cash. That changes though if the economy crashes, then we see what they are really like.

  • Jeez, you’re boring MB. You wouldn’t last 5 minutes with most of the people I’ve been around most of my life, you’d be shredded, indulging in all this stupid, vain, self-serving egotistical bullshit dies no good for anybody, including you.

    After the Apocalypse…

  • We’re all of us here following Norman Cohn’s eschatological pattern for the End Time’s but I believe it’s significantly distinct from others, in that it is linked to science.

    Cohn argues that until around 1500 BC Egyptians, Sumerians, Babylonians, Indo-Iranians, Canaanites and pre-exilic Israelites were more or less united in their world view; that in the beginning the world had been organised and delivered from chaos by one or more gods. To displease a god would be to risk the divinely ordained order of things, for the opposite of order was primordial chaos, a dangerous force which seeped into the earthly realm under the guise of plague, famine and invasion. The Egyptians knew this divine principle of order as ma’at (‘base’), the social and political embodiment of which was the Egyptian state, or rather, the Egyptian monarchy, which comprised human heirs to the throne previously believed to have been occupied by the sun-God Ra himself. Periodic regeneration and rejuvenation through upholding ma’at on the personal, social and political planes was key to understanding the Egyptian ideal. The best any pharaoh could do would be to restore the feted order of the past, re-establishing the ultimate conditions experienced under the rule of Ra, ‘in the beginning’. This continual reaffirmation of ma’at, this endless return to ‘the first occasion’, the notion that order is always teetering on the brink of chaos, which must surely be reigned in and always is, leads Cohn to describe the Egyptian world view as “static yet anxious”.

    http://www.foolishpeople.com/foolishpeople/2012/10/rapture-in-ruins-grab-what-you-can.html

  • MB : “..but it should be noted as a personal attack.”

    Go fuck yourself kid.

  • Fair enough, Morocco Bama. I’m up to it, at least.

    ulvfugl, I really wish you’d cut it out with the insults. They serve no useful purpose and just drag the discussion into fog. You are obviously more enlightened than the civilization you criticize, so it’s probably for the best if you choose not to ACT like the civilization we’re all here to criticize.

  • Yes, and look 1 post above yours, I already criticized ulvugl for it.

  • Please don’t tell me how to suck eggs, Librarian. You want to be moderator of Guy’s blog, well, go ahead and ask everyone here to support your claim to hold authority. Otherwise you’re no different to anyone else who posts comments.

  • Hysterical, MB. So now you’re the one who wants to make rules and for rules to be made, so that you can continue to behave like a spoiled teenager ? What was all that bullshit you came up with, a while back about you never obeying anyone’s rules, hahahahaha, and hypocrisy, earlier in this thread ? Very amusing…

  • ulvfugl, exactly what part of my comment sounded like “suck eggs” to you? What I said was, you obviously know how to be a decent human being, or you wouldn’t be here criticizing the horror of Western culture, so I would greatly appreciate it if you would refrain from insulting people. I hold no authority, obviously, so I am asking you as one decent human being to another.

    Thank you very much in advance, I appreciate it.

  • Some good links in the postings today. Interesting about the prediction of a global pandemic. I told everyone to read, “The Coming Plague” by Laurie Garrett, and you would understand the basis for this prediction. Then see this TED talk:

    http://www.ted.com/talks/nathan_wolfe_hunts_for_the_next_aids.html

    It’s one I show to my students.

  • Don’t you just love to wallow in your own slime and excrement, MB…

  • Wildwoman – unfortunately we can seldom talk about anarchism in a sane manner as the word has gotten meanings not originally intended, in part by the state wanting to make anarchism seem a dangerous state of affairs that all should avoid with a passion.
    per wiki
    “Anarchism is generally defined as a political philosophy which holds the state to be undesirable, unnecessary, or harmful”

    Anarchists were behind much of the success of women’s liberation in the world.

    Emma Goldman (June 27 [O.S. June 15] 1869 – May 14, 1940) was an anarchist known for her political activism, writing, and speeches. She played a pivotal role in the development of anarchist political philosophy in North America and Europe in the first half of the twentieth century.

    Argentina

    In Argentina, women Anarchists set up the revolutionary The Voice of the Woman newspaper in the 1890s.

    This was one of the “first … instances in Latin America of the fusion of feminist ideas with a revolutionary and working- class orientation and differs from the feminism found elsewhere in Latin America … which centered on educated middle-class women and … reflected their specific concerns”.

    The same study continues: “The distinctiveness of The Voice of the Woman as an Anarchist paper lay in its recognition of the specificity of women’s oppression. It called on women to mobilize against their oppression both as women and as workers” (Maxine Molyneux, Latin American Perspectives, 13 (1), 1986)

    Spanish Revolution

    In Spain in 1936, the working class organized a revolution for Anarchism. Workers seized the land and factories, managed them and their communities without bosses or governments and organized a workers army to defend against Fascism and dictatorship.

    Women also made gains. Women played a full part in the revolutionary struggle. Women were everywhere — Women were active in the workers collectives, and workers army where they fought alongside the men as equals. Women were taking up the fight against the sexist attitudes of the past which have no place in any real revolution.

    The Anarchist women’s organization, Mujeres Libres (Free Women) had 30,000 members. Mujeres Libres organized working-class women. It believed that women must achieve freedom by working together and working in their communities. It stood for gender equality, women’s education and empowerment, and class struggle. It worked closely with the Anarchist youth (FIJL -Iberian Anarchist Youth Federation) and trade unions (CNT-National Workers Confederation and FAI-Iberian Anarchist Federation).

    http://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anonymous-anarchism-a-history-of-fighting-for-women-s-freedom

  • I see Steven Chu is trying to walk that fine line between causing panic and getting across the seriousness of the situation in which we find ourselves as a species. My prediction is that he will not be able to raise anyone’s awareness one iota. As others have noted in this space, by the time conditions get to be noticeably bad (like now) it will be too late. It’s already too late now.

  • BC nurse I took your advice and The Coming Plague is in my house waiting for me to finish two other books I am reading simultaneously 🙂 For information on the flu virus you can check out Dr. Henry Niman’s Recombinomics Commentary – right now he is following in particular H3N2v. For a update on infectious diseases all over the world see http://crofsblogs.typepad.com/h5n1/ He has a host of links to other infectious disease sites and blogs and has moved well beyond H5N1 (which is still out there).

  • One issue with the flu besides it passing to humans is that it often necessitates huge poultry slaughters. It takes 4 lbs of grain to create 1 lb of chicken. If these chicken are in the 4 lb range when slaughtered each chicken slaughtered means 16 lbs of grain lost.

    From Aug 8 “Eight million chickens have been slaughtered in Mexico and another 66 million have been vaccinated in an ongoing effort to contain a bird flu outbreak that began in June in the western state of Jalisco.”
    http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/8-million-chickens-killed-amid-Mexico-bird-flu-3771658.php
    8 million times 16 lbs means 128 million lbs of grain wasted.

  • ulvfugl, I am going to ask you ONE MORE TIME, and then I’m going to give up.

    The slime and excrement comment was completely unnecessary. There is no purpose to your antagonism; in fact, I’ve actually been reading your website, mons angelorumm, and I’ve learned from that that you are more than capable of writing in a respectful fashion.

    So I would like to ask you one more time to keep it civil.

    Thank you very much in advance.

  • “…many people will choose to die rather than…”

    A stern eschatology of judgement and death appears ineluctable, even among secularists. But how safe will the hard-won, accumulated wealth of Galt’s Gulch retreat really be, in a nation with one firearm for every man, woman, and child?

    ¶ Looking down, they could see the last convulsions: the lights of the cars were darting through the streets, like animals trapped in a maze, frantically seeking an exit, the bridges were jammed with cars, the approaches to the bridges were veins of massed headlights, glittering bottlenecks stopping all motion, and the desperate screaming of sirens reached faintly to the height of the plane. The news of the continent’s severed artery had now engulfed the city, men were deserting their posts, trying, in panic, to abandon New York, seeking escape where all roads were cut off and escape was no longer possible.
    ¶ The plane was above the peaks of the skyscrapers when suddenly, with the abruptness of a shudder, as if the ground had parted to engulf it, the city disappeared from the face of the earth. It took them a moment to realize that the panic had reached the power stations—and that the lights of New York had gone out.
    ¶ Dagny gasped. “Don’t look down!” Galt ordered sharply.
    ¶ She raised her eyes to his face. His face had that look of austerity with which she had always seen him meet facts.
    ~excerpt from Atlas Shrugged (Ayn Rand, 1957)

  • Kathy C,

    Thanks for the info. I’m just wading into the whole anarchy thing, inspired by those three kids in Seattle who are now doing time for being anarchists(maybe).

    We’ve certainly been taught that anarchy is synonymous with chaos. I’m very uncertain that it matters anymore anyway, since we’re circling the drain.

    BC Nurse Prof,

    I’ve read The Coming Plague and her other one, Betrayal of Trust, about the systematic dismemberment of any kind of public health system. We built a good one after the 1918 flu epidemic, but it’s pretty much gone now. Here in the US anyway.

    All,
    A few threads ago, Nevil Shute’s novel On the Beach was mentioned and the movie. We’ve since seen the movie (and ohmygod, gardener and peck are gorgeous!). Doesn’t seem that Shute is all that popular in the US, at least according to the shelf space he gets in bookstores, but I really like his work. A Town Like Alice is my favorite.

  • Librarian The slime and excrement comment was completely unnecessary.

    Was it ? I thought it was very fitting, a perfect description in fact. Your request for me to modify my conduct carries no weight with me, seems you just wish to get your own way to suit your own sensibilities, and every single reader of this blog will have their own, I don’t really see why yours should take top priority ?

    In my scheme of things, respect has to be earned, not just demanded. Perhaps you’d like to reflect upon your own desire for influence and control and need to tell others what they can and can’t do ? I’m not very amenable to having anybody tell me what to do, unless I can see some good reason.

    I see MB as a confused foolish individual. Maybe he’ll sort himself out, maybe he won’t. He’s accused me of being violent, a rapist, told me to kill myself, said I’m brain damaged, etc, and posts nonsense and egotistical junk to get himself attention. If I choose to respond, then I think that’s my business, not yours ?

  • wildwoman, if you, or anyone, are new to anarchism, you could do worse that to read Orlov on Kropotkin, 2 parts done, one still to come…

    http://cluborlov.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/in-praise-of-anarchy-part-i.html

  • And when fully acquainted with anarchist thought, then there are the green anarchist thinkers to consider, of which my personal favourites are Theresa Kintz and John Zerzan

    http://www.archive.org/stream/RunningOnEmptiness_564/ROE_djvu.txt

  • Guy,

    How did the Nourishing Planet audience take your “no hope” webinar? Well? Not so well?

  • Arthur Johnson, I received no feedback from the audience beyond the Q&A. Your guess is as good as mine.

  • I found this old book on the internet. The text is rubbish, but the images, I find, are most remarkable. They are like who we, that is, the human species,used to be.

    Not all that long ago.

    http://ian.macky.net/secretmuseum/

  • That’s the fifth personal attack..

    Hehehehe, so you’ve decided to set yourself up as moderator now ? You’ll be needing to go back through the old threads and get busy moderating your own ‘personal attacks’, won’t you, that should keep you busy for a while, eh ? Anyway, glad to see you’re keeping a count, MB, aren’t you such a lucky boy, getting so much attention….

  • Ah, I get you, MB, ‘water under the bridge’, eh. ‘from this day forward’, oh, I like it, MB, bit like your declared resolution that you’d never ever read these comments here ever again…

  • Morocco Bama, I’m so sorry you and your wife had to endure the pain of pregnancy loss. I’ve delved deeply into the stories of those who lost their babies either before, during, or shortly after birth, and I do think it’s hugely traumatic for so many, and usually shrouded in silence by others. I very nearly lost my own child and that near miss scarred me.

  • Government or big oil agent or not Morocco Bama sure has tried to get this comments section under his wing. I was not the one who carte blanche stated that all posters had not DONE anything. MB as got to have been in the PR or Legal oine before redundancy, that cerbal mind is so skillful at driving wedges into little spaces, but calling all and sundry liars, is rich from internet entities withour accountability.

  • …’verbal’ mind sorry.

  • Hear, hear, Jennifer Hartley.

  • That being said, Robin’s knife, and let’s face it, it was a knife….

    To those unable to shake off hypocrisy.

    Your knife entered a Strawman for two reasons.

    A knife to a hypocritical Strawman, a flashlight to a contrite Strawman.

    First, the example I provided was not a conscious and willing act on my part.

    Acts involve the triad of actor, acting and the object of action. Conscious and willing acts are at the level of intellection. Subconscious or unconscious functioning also contends with the triad, but it is the master, with the intellect as the chauffeur.

    Subtler still is the Witness, Objectless Awareness: not comprehensible except as the One and Only Subject, yet is not one’s “I”, because in that realm there is no “not-I”. Not even “G_d”, since “G_d” is an object.

    One can leave the Catholic Church – and everything else, for that matter – but how does one leave the leaver?

    I don’t see the logic in calling prayer of petition to a deity, hypocritical.

    Nor do I. Supplications and gainsaying contingent upon convenience are hypocritical. Consistency is not.