Latest Media

My latest interview with Reese Jones is embedded below.

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I was interviewed the day before I delivered a presentation in Auckland, New Zealand. The resulting article is posted here.

The presentation was followed by an ambush. Check out the ensuing write-up here.

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Pauline Schneider’s film, Going Dark, is embedded below. Password is Going Dark. Please support her efforts at the tip jar. She’ll not recover her costs, much less earn money, so you needn’t worry about her becoming financially wealthy on this effort.

Going Dark Documentary from Pauline Schneider on Vimeo.

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McPherson was interviewed on Paul Henry’s television program in Auckland, New Zealand last night. Catch the description and video here.

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McPherson will be interviewed on Sunday, 26 October 2014 at 4:15 p.m. on Radioactive Radio in New Zealand. Catch it here.

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Carolyn Baker is interviewed by Abby Martin about our collaborative book, Extinction Dialogs. Catch it below, beginning at the 6:51 mark and ending at the 14:13 mark.

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Jamey Hecht has transformed his website from a focus on poetry, politics, and collapse. He now writes about climate change. Catch up with him here.

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As indicated below, McPherson will be traveling for the next couple weeks and will have limited access to the Internet. Please try to behave.

New Zealand poster October 2014

New Zealand poster number 2

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Catch Nature Bats Last on the radio with Mike Sliwa and Guy McPherson. Tune in every Tuesday at 8:00 p.m. Eastern time, or catch up in the archives here. If you prefer the iTunes version, including the option to subscribe, you can click here.

This week McPherson interviewed Ray McGovern, a legend in the whistle-blower community. The podcast is here.

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McPherson’s latest book is co-authored by Carolyn Baker. Extinction Dialogs: How to Live with Death in Mind is available.

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Find and join the Near-Term Human Extinction Support Group on Facebook here

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If you have registered, or you intend to register, please send an email message to guy.r.mcpherson@gmail.com. Include the online moniker you’d like to use in this space. I’ll approve your registration as quickly as possible. Thanks for your patience.

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Going Dark is available from the publisher here, from Amazon here, from Amazon on Kindle here, from Barnes & Noble on Nook here, and as a Google e-book here. Going Dark was reviewed by Carolyn Baker at Speaking Truth to Power, Anne Pyterek at Blue Bus Books, and by more than three dozen readers at Amazon.

Comments 79

  • infanttyrone

    ‘I do not fight fascists because I will win.
    I fight fascists because they are fascists. Chris Hedges’

    Yes, that’s it. In fact I quoted the very same thing to NPDC earlier in the year, and generated my own version of it, which I presented to NPDC in April of this year:

    ‘I don’t challenge ignorance and stupidity because I think I will win; I challenge ignorance and stupidity because they are ignorance and stupidity.’

    It made not a scrap of difference to the policy direction of the council, of course, because the top echelon of the council is totally corrupt and stupid. What I have achieved over the past 8 years is to get the corruption and stupidity documented in the public record.

    Now Daniel may think that such documentation is just so much nonsense if we are all going to get fried anyway, but I will continue to do it, particularly now that I am being proven right on everything I said to the council several years ago. Not every week, nor even every month. Just once a year now, as the system crumbles, society crumbles and the environment collapses as a consequence of the policies promoted by the ‘clowns and criminals’.

    I believe Guy has a similar outlook, in that he challenges ignorance and stupidity on a regular basis. Otherwise why bother coming to NZ?

    Sorry the personal stuff has taken greater precedence over congratulating others, such as Pauline and Guy, on their efforts to challenge the absurdity and corruption of it all.

    As Guy said a while ago: Obedience at home and oppression abroad. John Key has taken a leaf out of the Obama ‘hymnbook’ and is introducing legislation to provide for greater levels of oppression at home [in NZ] whilst contemplating joining whatever wars America feels inclined to fight to acquire resources and provide profits for arms manufacturers and money-lenders.

    I remember Carolyn Baker writing: ‘They’re not suffering enough yet’, referring to ordinary Americans (and I suspect particularly comfortable white Americans). Maybe a few months of worsening drought in California will be enough to tide of denial which has been sweeping everything before it. We’ll see.

  • I just want to clarify a couple of things that came up in the insult article. One, if you are going to make a criticism of cherry-picking, you’ll need to provide examples of the rest of the evidence from whatever source and integrate that into a concrete explanation of how things “aren’t so bad”. Just hurling claims of cherry-pickins amounts to little more than slander and ad hominem without the concurrent explication of the alternative. Just because it hurts your feelings or doesn’t fit into your indocrinated paradigm doesn’t mean it’s baloney – unless you can prove beyond a shadow of any doubt that it’s baloney. Scott Johnson’s articles on fractal planet, now 6 months out of date but continually presented to me as refutation, but still woefully thin on comprehensively explanatory counter arguments. And those counterarguments by now need to collectively be made to McPhearson, to Tim Garrett, to Malcolm Light, to Beckwith, to Peter Ward, to David Battisti, the Univ of Alaska, Univ of Sweden, Hadley Center, NOAA, IPCC, etc, etc…

    And considering the unfolding gravity of the situation, further sidestepping, denying and downplaying – with little to no counter evidentiary explication (which has been all but the standard M.O. for decades now), basing everything on rhetorical devices and little science, is not serving anyone’s interest. Nobody’s, and that includes those making them.

    Second thought is that ~conservative politics~ has evolved into and turned out to be a suicidal planetary death cult. That is about the long and short of it, and that is not hyperbole. Status quo bias and all of old grandpa’s “common sense logic” that led him to vote for Harper, Reagan, Cameron, Bush and Abbott is now coming across as a willful walk to the ovens – carrying all your kids, grandkids, friends and neighbors along with him. When these discussions come up, as they still do, this is how I will frame it.

    It’s not surprising to me that Leuzinger, Scott Johnson, et al come from the invading settler cultures in North America and Australia. I am particularly unsurprised at this contrived rationalization:

    “It is becoming a little bit absurd to me. I don’t think we can dismantle society,” said Dr Leuzinger.

    By society of course, he means Australian settler colonialism and concomitant privilege derived therefrom. As I brought up a couple of threads ago, the conscious or unconscious disposition of what masquerades as “society” in these places is pure pathological scorched earth destruction. Are there any indigenous cultures who are on board with the Things-Aint-All-THat-Bad analysis?

  • Guy: thanks for being so brave and true to the facts amidst the public ‘push-back’ by other scientists who refuse to see the truth and want to argue, ala Johnson and followers, over minutiae (which will have limited influence over the trajectory). Using the cannonball analogy brought up in the last thread (by infanttyrone), it’s like two microbes on the surface of said flying cannonball arguing about anything and expecting it to change the direction of the flight or its outcome. Yours is heroic behavior, sir, and I recognize and appreciate it.

    [from dutchsinse]

    http://phys.org/news/2014-10-global-surge-great-earthquakes-.html

    A global surge of great earthquakes from 2004-2014 and implications for Cascadia

    [begins]

    “The last ten years have been a remarkable time for great earthquakes. Since December 2004 there have been no less than 18 quakes of Mw8.0 orgreater – a rate of more than twice that seen from 1900 to mid-2004.

    Hundreds of thousands of lives have been lost and massive damage has resulted from these great earthquakes. But as devastating
    as such events can be, these recent great quakes have come with a silver lining: They coincide with unprecedented advances in technological and scientific capacity for learning from them.

    “We previously had very limited information about how ruptures grow into great earthquakes and interact with regions around them,” said seismologist Thorne Lay of the University of California at Santa Cruz. “So we are using the recorded data for these recent events to guide our understanding of future earthquakes. We’ve gained a new level of appreciation for how one earthquake can influence events in other zones.”

    High on the list of areas ripe for a great quake is Cascadia, the Pacific Northwest, where the risk for great quakes had long been under appreciated. Evidence began surfacing about 20 years ago that
    there had been a great quake in the region in the year 1700. Since then the view of the great quake risk in Cascadia has shifted dramatically.

    [ends]

    “We have no idea why only a portion of the 1877 zone ruptured,” said Lay. “But clearly, 80 percent of that zone is still unruptured. We don’t have a good basis for assessment of how the rest will fail. It’s the same for Cascadia. We don’t know if it always goes all at once or sometimes in sequences of smaller events, with alternating pattern. It is prudent to prepare for the worst case of failure of the entire region in a single event, but it may not happen that way every time.”

    What is certain is that studying these recent big earthquakes has given geophysicists the best information ever about how they work and point to new ways to begin understanding what could be in Cascadia’s future.

    http://www.desdemonadespair.net/2014/10/true-altruism-can-humans-change-to-save.html

    True altruism: Can humans change to save other species? ‘What makes us so good at destroying such vast quantities of other creatures is simply the vast quantity of us’

    [quote]

    Here’s who I think we are. We resemble every other species on this planet. None of them seems to be able to favor the well-being of any species but its own. If a species escapes its natural bounds — think Japanese knotweed or lionfish or even whitetail deer — it spreads until it reaches its natural or unnatural limit.

  • http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1030249-14-california-communities-now-on-verge-of-waterless-ness-mass-migration-out-of-california-seems-imminent/

    14 California Communities Now on Verge of Waterless-Ness; Mass Migration out of California Seems Imminent

    [quote]

    Most of the communities on the brink are located in California’s Central Valley, the “food basket” of America that The New York Times (NYT) once declared to be the nation’s greatest food resource. Most of America’s carrots are grown there, as are the bulk of salad greens, almonds and citrus fruits that we all take for granted — but that could soon disappear due to the continued drought.

    [and]

    While most of the communities facing total water depletion are relatively small in size, with only a few thousand residents each, the prospect of larger communities also becoming affected is increasingly likely. Tom Quinn, the executive director of the Association of California Water Agencies, says that, if the drought continues, many of the more iconic regions of California will suffer.

    “If this drought keeps on going, some larger, more sophisticated communities are going to be in trouble next year,” he told the LA Times.

    It isn’t just that no new water is coming into California — underground aquifers and other former backup sources are also running dry. According to research published in the journal Science, the entire Western United states has lost an astounding 240 gigatons of water since 2013, an amount equivalent to 1 billion tons.

    In spatial terms, this amount of water could be spread out across the entire Western U.S. in a solid 10-centimeter sheet, constituting about 63 trillion gallons, or enough to fill 75,000 football stadiums. This loss has not only altered the gravitational field of California, according to the study, but also caused mountains throughout the state to rise up out of the ground in some areas.

    “100 percent of the state is in drought, with 82 percent of the land designated as in ‘extreme’ or ‘exceptional’ drought, the highest levels on the U.S. Drought Monitor scale,” explains the National Journal. “Thirty-seven million people are affected by the drought.”

  • meant to attach this to the above (events from a few days ago – all have links to published news stories):

    http://jumpingjackflashhypothesis.blogspot.com/

    2014-10-21 – Kilauea wall collapses, explosion splatters lava, in Hawaii

    2014-10-21 – Two volcanoes may be in danger of erupting after 160,000 years on the Colombia/Ecuador border

    Quote: “Colombia’s Geological Service have changed the alert level of two volcanoes from yellow to orange. The two volcanoes are Cerro Negro and Chiles, both active on Colombia’s southern border to Ecuador. The orange alert level is defined by the Geological Service as ‘probable eruption in term of days to weeks.'”

    Quote: “Neither one of the volcanoes have erupted in the past 160,000 years.”

    2014-10-21 – Mount Sinabung may erupt indefinitely in Indonesia, large amount of magma present

    2014-10-21 – Thousands of undersea volcanoes revealed by new ocean map

    Note: MISA Theory just keeps looking more and more terrifyingly accurate all the time

  • I guess I don’t see the “ambush” write-up as an ambush at all. The audience heard something they never heard before, their local guy disputed it and the entire presentation was deemed to be the opinion of one man, not the consensus view of the world’s climatologists. Seems to be a fair way to look at it.

    I don’t see the point of doing these talks (except the trips must be fun!). No-one will buy into any of this completely as presented, and the wide diversity of responses (from “we’re all dead” all to way to “this guy is nuts”) pretty much ensures that no consensus will form. Any regardless, no-one is going to do anything to change anything, are they?

    I do see the beginnings of the collapse of fossil fuels (apparently starting very soon, as early as 2015, no later than 2020) as our last and best hope. Big suffering, total re-org of the planet, lots of death, but who knows, maybe hope as well…

    jd

  • Kevin,

    Regarding your October 22nd, 2014, 11:18 am comment, as usual I agree with pretty much everything you wrote here, AND, again, to me this just points to the way the thermodynamically inevitable processes played out—among an infinity of other possibilities that could have occurred: given the nervous system that evolution gave us with our inherent insanity, all leading ultimately to the same end result for life on Earth. Unlike you, to me none of this suggests any human “control” over the fundamental global heating and ecological collapse processes, no matter how much I might like to believe that during my red hot moments of full-blown, arrogant humanism. On the other hand, your points DO indicate many grandiose ATTEMPTS to control these processes, and, as you correctly emphasize, throughout all of human history some people have exerted greater social control over various groups of humans than others.

    You wrote “And ‘idiots’ on my local council continuously vote for increased levels of suffering in the future and for destruction of their own progeny’s futures.” Of course they do. What do you EXPECT from leaders of a fundamentally insane species? You seem to expect, no, demand, sane behavior from a species long since proven insane. (How sane does this expectation seem? 😉 ) I sense that at a “light” intellectual level you “understand” this; but at a deeper, non-conscious, emotional level you appear not yet to have fully integrated the long-term ecological implications for life on Earth of evolution having produced Homo sapiens.

    But, again, to me the things you point to all just work as social expressions of the over-arching, fundamental, energy gradient reduction principles. Your mileage may differ. And perhaps I have it all wrong, after all, just as all loyal human supremacists surely believe I do.

  • “no-one is going to do anything to change anything, are they?”

    Yet to be forewarned is to be forearmed. While there may nothing one can do to stop runaway global warming, one can prepare, at least mentally, for what that will mean when things go belly up. The biggest take away for me at any rate is not that We’re All Gonna Die but that time is short and you have to make most of it.

  • @ Bud

    “a fundamentally insane species”

    no, fundamentally insane colonists, imperialists and their bankers exploiting everything and everyone, along with lack of respect, for everything and everyone.

    up until they exploited fossil fuels for increased profits, the world’s humans lived in balance with nature for thousands of generations.

    “Only after the last tree has been cut down, Only after the last river has been poisoned, Only after the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten” – Cree Indian Prophecy

    http://limenzita.wordpress.com/2012/02/10/cree-indian-prophecy/

  • “I don’t see the point of doing these talks… No-one will buy into any of this completely as presented…”

    This is true if one is ignorant of the scientific method, parsimony of theory, statistical data analysis, and exponential functions. Unless one knows the mechanics of science (i.e., Greek for knowledge) one cannot truly appreciate or express what is happening to our planet.

    But even if one must be scientifically sophisticated to connect NTHE dots, audience reactions observed in the presentation videos do, in fact, show an intuitive-level awareness.

    The emotional push-back means that Guy is changing group-think. So, yes, there is a point.

  • “up until they exploited fossil fuels for increased profits, the world’s humans lived in balance with nature for thousands of generations.”

    No they did not. More research needed.

  • @ Tom F

    here’s my “more research” – where’s yours?

    “CO2 higher than any time in the last 600,000 years”

    http://www.skepticalscience.com/images/co2_10000_years.gif

    carbon-accounting.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/co2-and-heat-graph.png

    www astro.virginia.edu/class/oconnell/astr1210/im/co2-ice-cores-600Myr.jpg

  • crazy_inventor,

    Brother, you ain’t crazy, ur all over it.

  • The red man is far, far superior, in every way, to the white man.

  • Bud

    ‘What do you EXPECT from leaders of a fundamentally insane species? You seem to expect, no, demand, sane behavior from a species long since proven insane.’

    Are you suggesting I am insane?

    Or are you suggesting I am of a different species from the other bipedal apes that inhabit the district I live in? I must admit it certainly feels to me that I am of a different species when I go shopping (having cycled to town) and see obese creatures, covered in tattoos and wearing black clothing, staggering from the checkout tills to their vehicles with trolleys stacked with ‘crap’.

    How about Guy? Is he insane?

    The fact is, most of what is going on around here is the result of cultural conditioning, the result of being born in the slave camp and being lied to from birth. Most of what is going on around here is the consequence of hierarchical systems imposed on the masses by the gang of thieves and murderers at the top, in particular the gang of thieves and murderers who trace their ancestry and culture back to the Normans who invaded England in 1066. It is their system -the military-conquest-come-threat-come tax-come-separatist system which currently dominates throughout the world.

    New Zealand now has one of the worst-quality television broadcasting in the world because politicians in the late 1980s voted to make it that way.

    I have postulated before not that the Chinese culture and civilisation lasted approximately 4000 years before being overwhelmed and effectively destroyed by Anglo-American Norman culture, and that the Chinese civilisation may well have persisted for another 4000 years had the Norman culture not emerged. (Contrast that with the industrialised Norman culture which has managed to wreck practically everything in a mere 250 years.)

    Jared Diamond made the important point that when previous societies failed through destruction of their local environment they did not repeat the same mistakes but put in taboos which prevented repetition of the same mistakes. In the current society there are no taboos, other than the phony taboos about public nudity etc. Oh, and the taboos about mentioning reality.

    You may well argue that the emergence of the Norman invade-rape-pillage-tax-enclose-the-commons-subjugate-the-masses culture and its domination of the planet was inevitable because of the basic nature of the planet we live on and the requirements of evolution, which takes us right back to ‘The Selfish Gene’ and those damned genes ‘looking for’ any way that might increase their numbers, albeit temporarily.

    I continue to emphasise that NPDC officers continually break the law Local Government Acts 2002 and 2012) in order to make conditions in the district worse.

    We could examine yet again the Orwellian nature of the society we live in, in which ‘war is peace, freedom is slavery and ignorance is strength’. The scene in which O’Brien holds up his fingers and asks Smith how many fingers he sees may sum things up for a lot of people. “How many fingers do you want me to see?”

  • crazy_inventor,

    In response to my phrase “a fundamentally insane species”, you wrote, “no, fundamentally insane colonists, imperialists and their bankers exploiting everything and everyone, along with lack of respect, for everything and everyone. up until they exploited fossil fuels for increased profits, the world’s humans lived in balance with nature for thousands of generations.”

    I know. Many people wish to believe that prior to agriculture-based civilization, hunter-gatherer humans lived in a relatively peaceful golden age causing little or no damage to other humans, other species, or their environment. Jean-Jacques Rousseau, a critic of Thomas Hobbes’ views in the mid 1700s, strongly pushed this view, and many people, for many reasons, continue to believe this romantic idea today. Meanwhile, of course, people can, and commonly do, believe whatever they want to believe, no matter what evidence may exist to the contrary. (This serves as just one of many expressions of our SPECIE’S insanity.)

    I wrote exactly what I meant: that humans exist as a fundamentally insane SPECIES. Contrary to the beliefs of many, including one of my favorite authors, Derrick Jensen, with whom for the most part I agree and whose writing I love and consider extremely important, large amounts of compelling paleoanthropological evidence demonstrates that our massive homicidal and ecocidal behaviors did NOT begin with agriculture-based civilization about 10,000 years ago, as so many humanists wish to believe. Our “problems” go much, much deeper and further back in history than just this 10,000 year-old insane culture: they involve how evolution produced our brains and how they work; they involve our fundamental neuroanatomy and functioning.

    Consider this from Ian Tattersall’s book, Masters Of The Planet, The Search For Our Human Origins (2012): “…there was something DIFFERENT about these new migrants [Homo sapiens]: namely an unprecedented ability to intensify their exploitation of the environments around them. …When behaviorally modern humans moved into Europe, the behaviorally archaic Neanderthals yielded. When they moved into southern Asia it was Homo erectus, which flourished equally late in its last southeast island redoubt, that promptly disappeared. The same went, a little later in time, for those unfortunate Hobbits of Flores; and probably also in poorly documented Africa for any other hominids that may have survived the rigors of MIS 4. There was clearly something SPECIAL about the new invaders. From the very beginning of hominid history, the world typically supported several different kinds of hominid at one time—sometimes several of them on the very same landscape. In striking contrast, once behaviorally modern humans had emerged from Africa, the world rapidly became a hominid monoculture. This is surely telling us something very important about ourselves: thoughtlessly or otherwise, we are not only entirely intolerant of competition, but uniquely equipped to express and impose that intolerance. It’s something we might do well to bear in mind as we continue energetically persecuting our closest surviving relatives into extinction.

    Our earliest ancestors quickly, in geologic time, drove all of the other hominids to extinction. We should then believe, quite magically, that Homo sapiens did NOT drive many other species to extinction until beginning to do so a few hundred or 1,000 years ago? That does not make logical sense, the evidence does not support that conclusion, an understanding of human psychology does not support it, nor does reasoning based on energy flow within biological communities support it.

    For many extremely well documented paleoanthropological details concerning many different aspects of the gruesome nature of most pre-civilizational humans in cultures distributed widely over Earth, I strongly recommend Lawrence Keeley’s book, War Before Civilization, The Myth of the Peaceful Savage (1996), as well as Cannibalism and Human Sacrifice by Garry Hogg (1958). (Thanks Gail Zawacki for all three of these references I have mentioned here!)

    As I wrote to Kevin, I expect that all loyal human supremacists will disagree with this, if for no other reason because it strongly challenges some of their most important humanist assumptions concerning the nature of humans—and people will believe whatever they want to believe.

  • sorry for exceeding my quota, Guy

    Well Shep I prefer to describe people by their actions rather than their skin color.

    that way the colonists can’t wail ‘racist!’ to distract you from their actions..

    @ Bud

    ‘our problem’ is fossil CO2 emissions

    I love the way you repeatedly attempt to tap-dance around it, using cherry-picked, refuted, distractions which also tap-dance around it, by trying to re-frame the issue as how ancient societies which didn’t burn fossil fuels didn’t live perfect lives according to YOUR standards, which conveniently leave out colonisation, imperialism, usury and capitalism.

    I’ve already stated Gail’s so-called ‘research’ has been repeatedly refuted, 3 times so far, and here you are regurgitating it yet again, pretending it’s something new, or that it hasn’t.

    Being a masters of the universe’s second-hand second-rate propaganda organ, must be very satisfying in some personal way, as you talk about little else I’ve noticed.

    I have more than just belief, I have wisdom of the ages passed down from Elders, generation after generation, a history which the colonisers attempted to stamp out, through the biggest genocide in history, and which the ‘victorious’ historians – especially the one’s you use as references – ignore and pretend doesn’t exist. All while attempting to re-frame the issue from the capitalist exploitation of fossil fuels, to demonizing other cultures which didn’t exploit fossil fuels for endless growth and profit. None of your references tackle THAT issue.

  • Crzy,

    i understand.

    I meant to say also that *all* people of *color* are superior to white humans.

  • Bellevue Hospital now has one being tested, a doctor. A local hospital issued a statement to all employees that if they intended to visit Africa, they should first stop off at the head office (to pick up their pink slip?)

    http://www.tidewaterreview.com/news/national-world-news/chi-ebola-20141023,0,5057822.story

  • crazy_inventor:
    ‘our problem’ is fossil CO2 emissions

    No crazy, human nature is the problem.

    Long before discovering fossil fuels and exploiting them for fun and profit humans were hunting animals to extinction, deforesting, depleting top soil, killing and enslaving other humans, and more.

    Try googling Pleistocene extinctions, ancient deforestation, and historical slavery for a start.

    Sorry, its a slow day at work and I get tired of this world’s humans lived in balance with nature for thousands of generations nonsense.

  • As our species exists,which system has the least impact on the Earth and has long term sustainability?The list ,in order,is:
    1. Hunter- Gatherer
    2.Nomadic Pastoralism
    3.Agricultural civilisation
    4.Industrial civilisation.
    5.Capitalist Industrial Civilisation.
    There are many reasons why the first 2 systems are the only ones with long term sustainability.
    I have mentioned some of these reasons a while back on this site,and won’t list them again.
    The Aboriginal Australians lived here for 50,000 years and left the environment in superb condition.Industrial Civilisation has been here for 226 years and has had catastrophic impact and left a devastated environment over most of the country.
    If anyone is interested in reading about Aboriginal Culture and how they existed and to a large extent managed the country,a great book is ‘The ,Biggest Estate on Earth:How Aborigines Made Australia’ by Bill Gammage.

  • NOAA 2014 on track to be hottest year on record, following previous hottest year 2013.

    40% of Arctic Sea Ice gone in the past 30 years

    Ocean acidification increased 30% in past 30 years

    Living fish biomass weight in oceans in 1880 – 100% baseline / Comparative Living fish biomass in oceans 2014 10% of 1880 total.

    Glaciers in retreat on practically every mountain range on every continent.

    Greenland icesheets calving in realtime

    Lake Mead and Lake Powell at record lows. Vanishing in realtime.

    Massive droughts in Australia and California

    Methane releases “discovered” off US East Coast (maybe new, maybe old) / In boreal Russian arctic (definitely new)

    Human biomass + food animals – pigs, cows, chickens outweighs all other vertebrate species at 50 to 1.

    Massive Level 5 storms in the pacific and atlantic within 2 weeks, followed by tornadoes in North Carolina

    When I read this list, I have to just laugh out loud at the outrageous claims of “Cherry-picking” the data. I mean, what part of these trends is -not- going to lead to a total catastrophic apocalypse? Which part of the status quo if any is sustainable? I mean, what excellent narcotic are these fastidious non-cherry-picker people on? Because I need me some. Moving the extinction event back a couple of decades or a few years IS NOT PROGRESS. As Malcolm X said: If you stick a knife in me 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, that’s not progress. And it is not even close to a viable answer or retort to anything McPherson or anyone else has said thusfar.

  • I have no claim to knowledge of any sort, so I offer a lay person’s perspective on the cause of collapse.

    It’s often attributed to human nature on one hand and to civilization on the other. What I don’t see discussed is the role that systems do or don’t play in destroying the environment. I will take David Higham’s categories as a guide (applying my very limited understanding of each):

    1. Hunter- Gatherer

    They couldn’t be largely responsible for deforestation, since they only had stone tools to chop down forests with. Their impact on topsoil would be limited if they lived on harvesting fruit or killing animals. Their pack numbers probably rarely exceeded 100 people, so , control, hierarchy and over-all impact on environment must have been limited.

    Population did not take off, for the system to make that happen was absent. Since there was no means (or need) to grow population exponentially, environmental destruction couldn’t happen on a global scale.

    2.Nomadic Pastoralism

    Without study, which time does not permit, I must pass on this.

    3.Agricultural civilization

    This I where I gather food could be stored, requiring specialization, allowing for hierarchy, enabling power over others. General loss of freedom and respect for nature. Metal tools greatly increase human ability to control nature and wage destructive wars.

    So I could see that with more power to manipulate nature brought on by the agriculture system, there inevitably would be evolution of culture toward ever more sophisticated technology.

    4.Industrial civilisation.

    Requiring fossil fuels, which greatly increase longevity, and power to exploit nature. So population takes off, while resources dwindle.

    5.Capitalist Industrial Civilisation.

    Here we have what “mindfulecologist” calls Homo Colossus–gigantism of all sorts, hyper exploitation of resources, hyper increase in population size.

    So this destructive progression appears to be mandated by the progression of ever more destructive and controlling systems. Many places avoided this destructive evolution of culture up till the present, but most places succumbed. Different peoples made different choices. Easter Islanders destroyed their environment while native Australians did not. I don’t claim to have any idea what choices and forces shaped different peoples, but it seems that without the discovery of fossil fuels, Homo Colossus and climate change could not have come about. One system led to another system. Why are systems not discussed?

    http://mindfulecology.com/2014/10/homo-colossus/

  • “We resemble every other species on this planet. None of them seems to be able to favor the well-being of any species but its own.”

    How ’bout dem lichens (symbiosis of algae/cyanobacteria + fungus), leaf-cutter ants (raising a crop of fungus: their food), a protozoan ingesting a photosynthetic cyanobacterium that becomes an organelle. Oxpeckers that perch on large herbivores and rid them of ectoparasites, and even humans who cultivate a range of flora and fauna that benefit us. Remoras that pick ectoparasites off larger fish.

    Watching an Endosymbiont Becoming an Organelle?

  • Shepple says: “Crzy,i understand. I meant to say also that *all* people of *color* are superior to white humans.”

    Aren’t you the politically correct racist.

    Where’s ulv when we need him to cut through the BS chatter?

  • Watching an Endosymbiont Becoming an Organelle…

    Yes, Mergers and Acquisitions (M&A) has always been the path to leveraged success…but to what end?

  • This news segment follows Guy where ever he appears.

  • whoopsies
    [video src="http://videos.videopress.com/NGnNb0gI/courageous-man-refuses-to-believe-he-has-cancer_std.mp4" /]

  • [video src="http://videos.videopress.com/NGnNb0gI/courageous-man-refuses-to-believe-he-has-cancer_std.mp4" /]

  • “I meant to say also that *all* people of *color* are superior to white humans.”

    This is the kind of cringing mea culpa nonsense that only a white could utter. That special white privilege where only whites have the right to be wrong. Soon we can break this down to which whites are worse than all the others. Jews, Russians, Russian Jews… oh so many little groups to find in singling out someone to blame as long as the blame can’t land on me. Personally, I blame US Eastern Seaboard elites with roman numerals after their names. Those bastards!

  • i am very impressed impressed by Guy’s admission of regret.
    i am not impressed by people who buy chicken feed calling it resilience.
    i am very impressed by exposing 350dotorg as Rockefeller funded.
    McKibben/Klein get rich preaching green energy salvation enabling status quo.
    Guy gets maturity and experiential wealth preaching doom.
    Suggest you acknowledge the irony of world travel while preaching doom to head off critics.

  • crazy_inventor, I’m not sure it’s a good idea to call someone a propaganda organ for puppet masters if they don’t agree with you.

    This is why the left hasn’t been able to win, by the way. Look what happens, we’re just as vicious and insulting to each other as we are to the right, constantly testing each other for how pure our motives are.

    Meanwhile, the right wing groups also all hate each other. But guess what? They always agree on just one thing; they’re united in their hatred of the left, so even right-wing blue-collar workers are willing to work with rich corporate businessmen as long as both of them hate gay people, and even soldiers are willing to work with anti-war libertarians as long as both of them hate liberals in universities, etc.

  • Hydrogen sulfide causing increasing numbers of problems in at least four states

    Quote: “Neither the states nor the federal government tracks the amount of hydrogen sulfide production, but complaints and permitting related to hydrogen sulfide are growing in four states, according to documents and interviews.”

    Quote: “Some of the new shale fields, though, have high levels of hydrogen sulfide. Parts of the Eagle Ford field have a maximum concentration of 68,000 parts per million, 130 times the lethal level, according to Railroad Commission data. Parts of the Wolfcamp and Spraberry fields, discovered in Ector County, have levels even higher — 80,000 to 123,000 parts per million, according to Railroad Commission records.”

    http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060007591

    ‘That stuff can get you so fast’ — deadly gas on the rise in oil fields

    [quotes]

    ODESSA, Texas — Elaine Beadle initially thought the odor creeping into her home on this city’s west side was a sewer leak.

    It started about the time she moved in four years ago — a smell like rotten eggs. Sometimes it got so bad her eyes burned.

    She soon learned the real source: a tank battery that collects oil and gas from wells scattered throughout the vacant land and small homes near the intersection of University Drive and Loop 338.

    The gas in the tank battery contains more than 300 times the lethal level of hydrogen sulfide, a common byproduct of oil production in West Texas.

    [and]

    “More than anything else in oil and gas, hydrogen sulfide kills,” said Neil Carman, clean air director of the Sierra Club’s Lone Star Chapter in Texas.

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/10/ebola-2.html

    EXCLUSIVE: Was Ebola Accidentally Released from a Bioweapons Lab In West Africa?

    Accidents at Germ Labs Have Occurred Worldwide

    [quote]

    The head of South Africa’s Apartheid-era biological weapons program also worked on weaponizing Ebola. The New Yorker noted in 2011:

    Dr. Wouter Basson, and the various apartheid-era clandestine weapons programs he oversaw as leader of Project Coast…

    South Africans call him Dr. Death. He is regularly compared by the local press, never very persuasively, to Josef Mengele. . .

    ***

    There were revelations of research into a race-specific bacterial weapon; a project to find ways to sterilize the country’s black population ….

    ***

    Basson’s scientists were working with anthrax, cholera, salmonella, botulinum, thallium, E. coli, ricin, organophosphates, necrotizing fasciitis, hepatitis A, and H.I.V., as well as nerve gases (Sarin, VX) and the Ebola, Marburg, and Rift Valley hemorrhagic-fever viruses. They were producing crude toxins (and some strange delivery systems) for use by the military and police, and they were genetically engineering extremely dangerous new organisms—creating, that is, biological weapons.

    Dr. Basson alleges that the UK and U.S. helped South Africa with its biowarfare research [see 5 min. video interview]

    The U.S. has – in the past – intentionally deployed germ warfare abroad. For example, the Senate’s Church Committee found that the CIA decided to bump off the heads of Congo and Cuba using lethal germs. And the United States sold anthrax to Saddam Hussein in 1985, for the express purpose of using it against Iran. (CIA files also prove that the U.S. supported Saddam Hussein’s use of chemical weapons against Iran.)

    Top Bioweapons Expert Speaks Out on Ebola

    Washington’s Blog spoke with one of America’s leading experts on the dangers of research into deadly germs, Dr. Francis Boyle.

    Dr. Boyle wrote the Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989, the American implementing legislation for the 1972 Biological Weapons Convention.

    Dr. Boyle served on the Board of Directors of Amnesty International (1988-1992), and is a professor of international law at the University of Illinois, Champaign.

    [concludes]

    DR. FRANCIS BOYLE: That’s the smoking gun, right there. Read that article [the New York Times article quoted above, which notes “a sudden change of heart by the Obama administration” about labs creating ever-deadlier versions of germs which are already lethal].

    The reason they’ve stopped it is to cover themselves, I think, because they know that this type of work was behind the outbreak of the [Ebola] pandemic in West Africa.

    But that’s an admission right there, de facto.

    _ _ _

    Dr. Boyle made it clear that he is not suggesting – as some others are – that Ebola was intentionally released into the African population. He says he has seen no evidence of intentional release. He’s speaking about an accidental release of germs from a biowarfare research lab.

    He’s convinced, in fact, that this Ebola epidemic in Africa started with the release from a U.S. bioweapons lab in West Africa. One of the reasons for his conviction that the outbreak started with the release from a bioweapon lab is that this Ebola strain seems to be much worse than those previously seen in the wild.

    As Dr. Boyle told us:

    It seems to me that [the Ebola epidemic in West Africa] has U.S. biowarfare programs written all over it.

  • @ Tom F

    again – nice citations

    the CO2 charts I posted don’t agree, according to them it’s fossil fuel exploitation that a tiny minority of humans are mostly responsible for, that’s ‘our problem’ – many of which in this tiny minority, are spending billions per year on PR / propaganda to maintain their ability to continue to exploit fossil fuels.

    if it were ‘everybody’ that’s to blame, then why is such effort and funding being sunk into paid professional liars telling paid professional lies to the rest of humanity?

    – lies such as ‘human nature’ is ‘the problem’

    lies designed to distract you from their direct profitable role in raising fossil CO2 levels to extinction levels, while for tens of thousands of years of ‘human nature’ the level barely changed.

    it’s not hunting, slaving and tribal warfare though the ages, that brought on the 6’th great extinction, it’s the exploitation of fossil fuels.

    nothing else

    as much as the fossil fool profiteers (and their stooges and shills) would love to distract you from that fact

    it certainty feels good, it’s very appealing, the idea that me & mine aren’t to blame because ‘everyone’ is to blame.

    (you don’t see this kind of blatant, shallow, self-justification in third world, working poor, homeless, indigenous or people of color groups – this is a strictly a first-worlder, consumer culture, typically older white male, high fossil energy consumption, entitled attitude, phenomenon)

    ‘everyone’ isn’t directly profiting from the extraction and exploitation of fossil fuels, and ‘everyone’ isn’t paying professional liars to cover for them – only a tiny minority are.

    and fortunately we’re dealing with facts here, not beliefs, feelings, emotions, sentiments, entitled attitudes or biases..

    4 % of the world’s population consumes over 25 % of it’s ‘resources’ – and this 4 % is entirely where the framing of it as ‘human nature’ comes from, which we’re being constantly pelted with on here – from one sockpuppet pseudonym to another, tag-team style.

    this is how propagandists operate – they fabricate emotionally appealing narratives with no citations, or already refuted citations to back them up, and endlessly repeat them, over & over again (repetition is key) using any available means to dominate the dialogue, because they have no other interests or motivation.

    the truth is not on their side, so they avoid mentioning anything factual – no charts, measurements, samples, readings, statistics, models or projections.

    – they dwell entirely within the realm of emotions, feelings, sentiments and beliefs.

    Their mantra is “people feel not think”, so they approach all issues by pounding away at the feelings of the targets, rather than engage in exchanges of fact, to further increased awareness and understanding. their goal is to dumb you down, to keep you from thinking, to reduce you to ‘human nature’ which is the only level propaganda works at.

    then they have conferences where they brag about how easily manipulated people are, and how successful they’ve been at fooling them

    this is what Hammond uncovered and why he’s in jail and why what he found out and presented to the public, is completely, across-the-board ignored

    their dirtiest of dirty secrets, is not only do they do this on a grand scale, but that they brag about it, as a selling point, for their services.

    THESE specifically are the people’s heads I want to see on pikes, along with the banksters who hired them..

    @ FriedrichKling

    this is the main reason why I state people’s actions, rather than the low hanging fruit of race, so fuggles can’t jump in, and only exploit the crowd’s sentiments again, while discussing nothing of importance, then jump out, like you just did 😉

    @ Librarian

    – which precisely is why I quote actual excerpts from the ‘liberated’ documents, then ask you to compare what you see them saying with your own eyes, with the documents contents.

    – that way, more facts are added to the discussion, and you can make informed decisions for yourself on how closely they’re following the scripts, tactics and methods of the PR hacks, who created them.

    this isn’t to say the individual in question is overtly, directly employed as such (many people internalize and mimic, mirror, parrot) because it’s psychologically comforting – it requires no courage, moral or otherwise, and it’s an easy ‘win’ to join the crowd, to go-with-the-flow, to jump on the bandwagon, pile-on and play the sentiments and you get be a ‘team player’.

    this is the real key to “the right’s” ‘success’ – that they have billionaires supporting them behind the scenes with billions spent on PR / propaganda, making them in reality just their puppets – their ‘message force multipliers’

    yes, it’s rewarding – on a shallow superficial level, as noted above..

    being on ‘the left’ on the other hand, is an often alienating, lonely, pariah experience, because by necessity it raises and exposes taboos, which are the real disempowering aspects to ‘the left’ ‘losing’.

    (all the artificial constructs / false frames are in quotes)

    it’s really only about class – nothing else – capitalism makes it so..

    by the time you’re framing it as right vs left, winning vs losing, you’ve already fallen for the framing they spend billions on, to dominate the media landscape with.

    the real success is that they make it so that people are unable to even conceptualize the real problem to begin with

    – much less have open, constructive, informative, factual discussions about it

  • @ ARTLEADS – greetings fellow artist. You end with a cogent and pungent question: “Why are systems not discussed?” It seems to me that they are being discussed–how adequately may be another question. In the non-specialist book world there is the current Naomi Klein offering, This Changes Everything, that deals with industrial Capitalism and global environmental disaster. There are others, including Charles Ornstein’s Ascent of Humanity. We are conditioned by whatever systems we are born into and continue to occupy. (Consider that last phrase….). That those persons and systems now ruling us seem to be in an insane relation to the (system) ecology of the planet seems to be our tragedy. Is that not what Guy, in his indefatigable current life choices and actions, is laying out for us to consider? As artists (those not being just rock star business types) we are small voices in any current system, but at least try to find, evoke and share some moments in the great mystery that may be worth the effort. On the basic NTHE question Guy illuminates, I get it, can’t refute it and continue as actively as possible to work against it (not the argument, the reality). It’s best to keep busy.
    Peace, if possible.

  • Suffering and the End of Suffering

    The end has already begun,
    And our race has almost been run;
    We’ll soon be released:
    Our struggles all ceased,
    And all of our suffering done.

  • Grant,

    Yes, I agree completely that “I blame US Eastern Seaboard elites with roman numerals after their names”.

    However, the white man is fully responsible for the trap we exist in today. They are few but they have caused all the suffering. It is now their turn to suffer. Can’t wait.

    There are endless white people that are kind and generous and want to do what’s correct.

    I live in the South. Many whites are extremely hateful and bigoted. Maybe it is because Sherman (a true terrorist) marched through here? Maybe it is parenting? Maybe it is entitlement? Whatever it is, it is.

  • Climate Progress displays only one comment per click
    Commie Dreams has eliminated linked comments
    Climate Central has endless comment purgatory
    Guy still has quaint notions of trash talk freedom…
    or something…

  • @Wester

    “I mean, what excellent narcotic are these fastidious non-cherry-picker people on? Because I need me some.”

    I could help but absolutely burst out laughing followed by more laughter and rolling around on the floor (actually fell off the chair), followed by tears, no, not of joy 😐

    I need mi some of that excellent narcotic too, if you ever get your hands on it do pass the info around. Some days the fiddling about just does not cut it. Please, pretty please with two cherries on top 🙂

    ~

    Back to the fiddling 🙂

  • Grant,
    Personally, I blame US Eastern Seaboard elites with roman numerals after their names. Those bastards!
    Um, does this mean we won’t be able to do a “Gilligan’s Island” party at your place ?
    Buffy will be crestfallen, I tell you…crestfallen.

    Librarian,
    Your analysis seems to agree with what I’ve seen over the years.
    Back in college (68-72) I saw a pamphlet/thin book that detailed a lot of the interlocking directorates of large corporations…it was distributed by an organization of ‘the left’.
    Soon after, working in a large university library in a different city to finish up a couple of incompletes, I would take an occasional break from research or writing and scan a magazine or two from the current periodical racks. I came across one with an article outlining more or less the same facts…turned out to be the John Birch Society’s monthly mag.
    Divide & conquer’s been the game for quite some time now.

    Robert,
    Maybe Guy could borrow Spider Robinson’s joke and claim to be an agent of God.
    Spider said “God is an iron.”
    If you practice gluttony…you’re a glutton.
    If you commit a felony…you’re a felon.

    c_i,
    Yes, if they can make (some of) us ask the wrong questions…which they can & do, they can reply with a version or fraction of the truth that won’t permit most folks to make any analytical progress.
    Sometimes Burroughs’ idea about language being a virus doesn’t seem fantastic.

  • @ Callaghan

    Guy may be a ‘frequent flyer’ but at least he’s not profiting from the extraction & exploitation of fossil fuels, nor is he funding or dispersing PR / propaganda to continue doing so unchallenged, nor is he extending the loans to bankroll the extraction operations.

    His information and message far far outweighs his carbon footprint, especially considering how many people in similar circumstances are frequent pleasure vacation flyers.

    ..if he gets any pleasure or satisfaction from sitting in a cramped seat for hours, in a Aluminium can with wings, being exposed to greatly increased cosmic irradiation that the Aluminium is virtually transparent to (I use Aluminium as a window to allow even soft X-rays to freely pass, and even Alpha particles are able to pass through thin layers of it – that’s pretty transparent, considering even tissue paper completely blocks them) or being intimately fondled at every department of fatherland INsecurity checkpoint, while having his personal belongings pawed through, it’s for him to say, not for ‘yet another’ concern troll to harp upon.

    – but that’s just my opinion

    and if you’re referring to me about buying chicken scratch (we can’t afford actual feed, scratch is a supplement for chickens that freely roam the yard for insects and grass to acquire their nutritional needs, and besides it’s mostly wild birds and squirrels that eat the scratch anyway) ‘resilience’ is a strawman entirely of your own creation.

    I don’t discourage the wildlife because they’re the only ones that will survive, so the higher their numbers are presently, the more of them will be left when the climate eventually re-balances, in the far future, long after we’re gone for good.

    @ BtD

    I’m too big I’m too big to fail

    I’m too big I’m too big to fail

    Probably best you just bail me out
    If I fail you’re gonna go without

    This ship has sailed
    Put the check in the mail
    Just get ready to bail

    ’cause I’m too big I’m too big to fail
    ’cause I’m too big I’m too big to fail

    I’m the number one domino
    Won’t be good for you if I go

    Put your dreams on avail
    Grab your bucket and pail
    Just get ready to bail

    Don’t go askin how it got this way
    Don’t go diggin into yesterday

    No lookin back on how I came to fail

    Put the check in the mail
    Put your dreams on avail
    This ship has sailed
    Grab your bucket and pail

    Just get ready to bail
    Just get ready to bail
    Just get ready to bail
    Just get ready to bail

    [video src="http://la.indymedia.org/uploads/2014/10/too_big_to_fail.mp4" /]

    @ Callaghan again

    yeah sound bites, factoids and talking points don’t do very well in an atmosphere that encourages deeper discussions and longer attention spans, rather than quick hit-and-runs, that only repeat the same talking points, dressed up in different ensembles of words or presented by different persona’s..

    so sad for you & yours 😉

  • SOUND ADVICE
    there was a time when guns where taken by the sheriff at the saloon
    today, we know we can bomb ISIS oil revenue pipelines like
    it’s a billionaires anti-divestment ponzi scheme, selling ordinance
    to destroy the very oil we need to destroy life on earth
    the old robber baron war tax jive shuck’n dance of destructive prosperity.
    welfare for the MIC.
    we should internationalize ordnance production
    liberating it from capitalism
    informing the MIC to get on
    with the war on extinction.

    NEVER MIND DIVESTMENT PORN!
    first, we privatize carbon tax dividends
    with no share for guvs and corps
    with 100% private citizen direct deposit
    in a new world e-currency valued with inverse
    proportionality to atmospheric carbon.
    This will eliminate national regulatory
    asymmetries and capture.
    because the whole world is watching.

    we regulate a new financial ponzi scheme openly
    and honestly creating a banking system
    valued on organic food and atmospheric carbon
    priced in a new world electronic currency
    all currency info openly stored on your phone.

    then we have to pursue a good nuclear policy
    based on thorium and fusion.
    this is the only way to counter peak resources

    i would rather fail than not try
    i would rather fail than not tell you this
    i’m a bit of a green-behind-the-ears dreamer that way
    who cuts grass in a trailer park in Canada

  • uh uhh ahh ahhh AHHHHH!

    damn – I just scorched another pair of libertarian shorts 😉

  • crazy_inventor,

    You wrote “‘our problem’ is fossil CO2 emissions”. In the medical profession we would say that you insist on focusing on, and treating, only the signs and symptoms of a disease while having little or no concern for the underlying causal processes. Sorry. I see the CO2 emissions, general ecological collapse, and the presence of nuclear weapons and nuclear power plants as SIGNS of a number of underlying processes within and between humans that interact in complex ways, and the climax of processes ongoing for far longer than just the past few hundred, or even few thousand, years.

    Do I really need to point out the obvious: that pre-fossil fuel cultures did not use fossil fuels because they did not yet have them or the technology? If they had had access to them, do you really, seriously, believe that they would not have used them? Do I really need to point out that as soon as human cultures got access to more powerful, time- and personal energy-saving technologies, they made full use of them, and still do today? When handles became available for use with rocks, humans made good use of them. When flint knapping made spear points available, humans used them. When atlatls became available, humans used them. When bows became available, humans used them. When copper, then bronze, then iron became available, humans used them. In many, many cases, indigenous peoples widely traded metal needles, knives, axes, pots, and so on, LONG before any colonizers appeared or any colonization occurred. When horses became available, the Plains Indians made full use of them. In these processes, certainly some groups embraced and used new technologies more or less quickly and more or less wisely than others. In many cases, over many millennia, no one FORCED these people to use the new technologies. (On the other hand, in the sense of The Parable of The Tribes, many of these changes did occur through force, as I described in my “Tragic View of Human Destiny” essay.) In many, many cases indigenous people started using canvas, manufactured clothing, steel traps, rifles, fossil fueled chain saws, snow machines, ATVs, trucks, and so on, even though they still had the option, quite realistically, of living much more directly on the land using only their older, more traditional methods.

    You also wrote, “…while attempting to re-frame the issue from the capitalist exploitation of fossil fuels, to demonizing other cultures which didn’t exploit fossil fuels for endless growth and profit. None of your references tackle THAT issue.” Nothing I have ever written “attempts to re-frame the issue from the capitalist exploitation of fossil fuels”, so here you have both constructed a straw man argument and claimed that I have written things I have not written. (Apology, please, for insisting that that I have written things I did not write?)

    Neither have I “…demonized other cultures which didn’t exploit fossil fuels for endless growth and profit”, so here you have constructed another distracting, straw man argument. To make my argument perfectly clear, I DID point to the essential insanity and frequently destructive behavior of ALL humans. I have NOT singled out any particular culture or group of cultures, as you have suggested. (So, another apology, please, or just one apology for both nonsensical misrepresentations.) Meanwhile, “demon” commonly refers to an evil supernatural being or a cruel wicked and inhuman person. Perhaps my pointing to all human’s predispositions for insane thinking and behaving amounts to “demonizing” to you, but it certainly does not to me because I have not pointed to anything supernatural, wicked, or inhuman. I HAVE pointed to entirely NATURAL and HUMAN thinking, emotions, and behaviors. Related to all of this, I feel curious to know: have you read Keeley’s book War Before Civilization? Something tells me that you probably have not.

    Unfortunately, I do not know what you mean when you insist that “…Gail’s so-called ‘research’ has been repeatedly refuted, 3 times so far…”. I have no idea what this refers to. As a fallible human being, and as much writing as she has done, I would feel surprised if she has not made some mistakes somewhere, but to date I have not seen any. Perhaps you would explain what you mean by this?

    As I wrote: loyal human supremacists will disagree with me, so I do not feel at all surprised by your response. In reflecting on this, I just realized something that really should seem pretty obvious: some human supremacists believe that THEY and THEIR PARTICULAR GROUP of humans presumably have more supremacy than others! Meanwhile, this just serves as a variation on the old, arrogant humanist idea of The Great Chain of Being.

    Crazy_inventor, if you have a strong need for you and your group to feel superior to me and other allegedly “lower” humans on your supremacy hierarchy, I have no problem at all with your doing that. By all means, have at it; make yourself feel good with your alleged superiority, just as the Nazis, the Ku Klux Klaners, and many others have throughout history. I, by comparison, feel quite content to remain a highly fallible human being with my many weaknesses, a person who makes many errors in my thinking and behaving, and a human being with tendencies toward insane thinking and behaving just like all other humans. But, please, from your superior position do not misrepresent the things I have written. Point out specific errors I have made? Certainly! I proactively wish for and welcome that. But do not misrepresent the things I have written, nor insist that I wrote things I did not write, no matter how racially or otherwise superior you consider yourself, nor how badly others may have treated you because of the color of your skin. In directing your anger and rage at me you have badly and inappropriately misplaced them, treating a friend as an enemy.

  • sorry for the 4’th post, I shouldn’t have wasted my time on Callaghan

    so now Bud’s finally pulled out the nazi card

    The Nazi Reference

    Godwin’s Law of the Internet states: ‘As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.’

    Such an offence indicates that your credibility is gone.

    The Nazi reference is peddled by an individual or group of individuals who have lost their argument so completely that they must compare the subject or their opponent to Hitler and/or his band of lunatics.

    A Nazi reference is considered proof that you as an individual have no real argument left to make.”
    ————————————————————-

    and the tired old ‘playing the sentiments’ tactic is just icing on the cake – it’s not me or anyone who’s “superior” it’s actions that determine that.

    – this is just another way of attacking the messenger..

    PS. lovely citations

  • Klein and McKibben are Rockefeller funded stooges who want to give your carbon tax money to corporations and governments to save the planet, good luck with that.

  • i am deeply embedded oil troll deep within the mind of danog,
    (that’s gonad spled backwardz)

  • crazy_inventor,

    “Godwin’s Law” exists as nothing more than one clever man’s opinion. It does not occur as any kind of natural or legal law in any way, and, contrary to the assertion made within it, it definitely does NOT “indicate that your credibility is gone”. Godwin constructed and used this “law” as a distracting, subject-changing, Straw Man argument.

    Related directly to this, I now formally offer “Nye’s Law of the Internet” here, a “law” in all probably significantly more valid than the frequently referenced “Godwin’s Law”:

    “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of introducing Godwin’s Law approaches one. Such a reference indicates that one has lost their credibility. An individual or group of individuals who have lost their argument often distracts from the relevant issues and changes the subject by introducing the completely irrelevant, opinion-based Godwin’s Law. A Godwin’s Law reference provides excellent proof that one has no real argument left to make.”

    Anyone who reads this may feel free to pass “Nye’s Law of the Internet” along as they may wish. 😉 

  • Bud Nye, a minor correction, if I may, the Great Chain of Being was a religious idea, not a humanist one. The idea was that all of existence belonged to a great chain of being with God at the top, then angels, then men, then women, etc. It’s a nasty idea, of course, but it was created to justify religious hierarchy, rather than to justify the humanism that came later.

  • The problem with “the white man is fully responsible for the trap we exist in today,” Shep is that this too is racist. Other people, the Japanese and Chinese for example, are perfectly capable of doing incredible harm to the environment as well. Capitalism is a great destroyer and anyone can play. Military dictatorships and capitalist governments are almost exactly the same with some minor differences in wording and prisons. Ruthlessly exploiting the environment for monetary gain is a world-wide game. The big problem remains unchecked greed, which also isn’t an exclusively white trait, but we do seem to believe that “Greed is Good.” I’ll give you that.

  • Hi Guy,

    Is CRAZY inventor exempt from the twice daily posting maximum? This guy is a habitual offender and deserves a spanking for not honoring the codes of conduct.

  • Grant,

    I’m confused about what you think is racist.

    The Chinese destroying their environment and their own people isn’t racist. Racism is the oppression of other races. White man invented Capitalism and the Industrial Revolution. The point is that we’ve taught everyone that Greed is Good and consequently oppressed others. Hell they just joined the team mostly through our immorality and bribes. There is nothing mea culpa about admitting White Supremacy.

    You might see better if you lived in the South.

  • “McPherson will be interviewed on Sunday, 26 October 2014 at 4:15 p.m. on Radioactive Radio in New Zealand.”

    Time Zone Converter

    Wellington (New Zealand)
    Sunday, October 26, 2014 at 4:15:00 PM
    NZDT
    Left Coast Time:
    San Francisco(U.S.A. – California)
    Saturday, October 25, 2014 at 8:15:00 PM

    Radioactive Radio online live stream.

  • I just read that long series of comments on ES and was going to post a very long comment here, (16,500 characters) quoting various pieces of it, along with quotes and comments from links dropped there by certain persons but I’ve decided to trim it down to just this statement of my own:

    I’ve reviewed the sources myself, and in my scientific judgement, Guy’s predictions represent the best-fit plot of the most up to date, accurate data – nothing more.

    ..because really, this is all that matters. at least one of the actors, it appears, is intentionally trying to elicit a hostile response, which he then uses there, as a bludgeon to ‘prove’ what he has no science or data to refute – he’s on a personal axe grinding hatchet mission to personally smear, as a substitute for presenting refuting data, of which he has none.

    and another commenter here, who I’ve been exposing, appears to be playing both sides, by pseudo supporting Guy’s predictions yet also providing ammo to the smear artist.

    and since it’s quite clear (by his comments there) that he’s abundantly aware of both of these actors, and their treachery, it would serve no purpose for me to bring them up here..

    @ Grant

    you’re being misleading – billions of people live on a dollar a day, while a tiny minority of billionaires profit from spewing millions of tons of CO2 apiece.

    so, on a PER-PERSON BASIS the emission of fossil carbon is stacked extremely heavily on the rich, specifically fossil fuel and industry CEO’s, war contractors, and most of all the too-big-to-jail bankster crooks who bankroll them. this is a ratio of more than a million-to-one

    – for every one of these corporate criminals we make an example out of, there’s a million working poor, homeless, indigenous, aboriginal people just scraping by trying to survive, while this obscenely rich tiny minority just keeps getting richer, at everyone else, and everything else’s expense.

    and almost all of them are old white males born into wealth, who never worked an honest day’s work in their entire life.

    maybe THIS is what Shep is referring to – the actual situation on the ground – the actual numbers..

    the whitewashing just doesn’t go over so well when you’re on the receiving end of the short end of the stick

    @ FriedrichKling

    I was just going to ask the same thing about Callaghan who posted 8 times today (now yesterday) and has often posted 6 times. I ‘max out’ at 3 and occasionally apologise at 4 but it’s rare.. (only twice the past month)

    it can wait – after all it’s not as if I’m replying to anyone of consequence as Tarzi likes to say :

    http://ohtarzie.wordpress.com/2014/02/24/the-friends-of-glenn/

    – and as you can see I’ve waited ’till 12:00 midnight server time to post this, because server time is the easiest to deal with, though not for me, which is 2 AM and I’m usually not up that late since I’m ‘up at sparrows’ every morning 🙂

    this ancient Indian proverb might be useful to you for future reference :

    cast stones not at foe’s thatch hut lest thy hit friend’s crystal cathedral

  • ^^cast stones not at foe’s thatch hut lest thy hit friend’s crystal cathedral**

    Or one could follow my great grandaddys advice and **learn to count to two and you won*t have to resort to philosophy to hide your stupidity**

  • Shep: Racism is also the presumption that your race is superior in fucking up. It is yet another point of pride — look how wonderfully powerful white people are, we and we alone, have doomed the planet. Give credit where credit is due, maaaaaaaaaaan!

    And Crazy: the issue here was race, not First World people, not even Americans. If Shep had claimed Americans are the worst, I would have let the whole thing slide. Context is important, duuuuuuude.

  • Librarian,

    I understand, I think you made a valid point, I agree, and I appreciate the clarification. Meanwhile, one word of course can point to different things. When I use the term humanism, I usually use it in a general sense, not in the formal, historical sense that you correctly emphasized. With this more general understanding of humanism (vs. historical Humanism), I see most religions and The Great Chain of Being as arrogantly humanistic or human supremacist in nature: God, presumably, values humans above all other life, and created Earth especially for humans. Separate from, and often preceding some popular religions I expect, from an arrogantly humanist perspective humans supposedly have near omniscient powers of understanding and near omnipotent powers of control. It remains just my opinion, but I expect that human supremacism probably preceded many religions and these people constructed their religions, over time, as a way to justify and secure their high power positions, attributing their supremacism not directly to themselves as “mere humans” but instead attributing their powers to the infinitely more powerful God Almighty that they insist ultimately made and controls Earth and the rest of the universe. Then, a huge percentage of the population swallowed the scam—the switched attention focus—hook, line, and sinker.

    Shep,

    You do not recognize your racism because you define it for yourself in a limited way as: “the oppression of other races”, as you wrote it. Focusing on this personal definition, you do not see yourself as oppressing other races; you don’t fit your own criterion for racism. Meanwhile, when most people use the word racism, they usually refer to (1) the prejudice that members of one race have intrinsic superiority over members of other races, or (2) to discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race. Based on THESE commonly accepted definitions of racism, your and crazy_inventor’s insisting that white men produced the global heating and ecological collapse self-annihilation traps demonstrates a clear prejudice against white people and in favor of non-white people, and may well serve as a basis for discriminatory or abusive behavior, which you likely would also remain largely unaware of. Of COURSE some white people consider themselves superior to others. And, as you and crazy_inventor have demonstrated, some American Indian people consider themselves superior to others. Meanwhile, some Chinese consider themselves superior; some black people consider themselves superior; some Spanish people consider themselves superior; some Inuit consider themselves superior; and so on, and on. All of this serves to emphasize just one of many HUMAN weaknesses—built by evolution into our human nervous system—that has resulted in the global heating and ecological collapse self-annihilation traps.

  • “And, as you and crazy_inventor have demonstrated, some American Indian people consider themselves superior”

    strawman – I said people are defined by their actions only, precisely to forestall what both you & Grant are trying to frame the issue as.

    ..in order to distract from said actions

    I keep seeing a strange correlation between me focusing on the bankster crooks in writing and song, and continued attacks by certain individuals who’s acquaintances are the bankster crooks, my dox’ing has revealed..

    – and BTW Bud, some of the billionaire’s did exactly the same thing you just did, claimed anyone who criticized them were ‘like nazis’ ;

    “Nazi metaphors should be avoided except in the most extreme cases of human cruelty. But that metaphor is especially obscene when today’s pampered rich, like billionaire Tom Perkins, compare themselves to persecuted Jews, as Bill Moyers and Michael Winship observe.

    By Bill Moyers and Michael Winship

    There’s a rule of thumb in cyberspace etiquette, known as Godwin’s Law named after Mike Godwin, the Internet lawyer and activist who first came up with it. A variation of that law boils down to this: He who first compares the other side to Nazis loses, and the conversation is at an end. Unless you’re billionaire Tom Perkins, who seems dedicated to digging a deeper and deeper hole for himself.

    “Real Estate Billionaire (Sam Zell) Defends Venture Capitalist Who Compared Critics Of The Rich To Nazis”

    (and Zell is a real-life monster too, he’s personally destroyed countless people’s lives)

    and notice Bud’s response was to dig in & double down too 😉

    superior indeed 🙂

    http://billmoyers.com/2014/01/30/advice-to-perkins-time-to-shut-up/

    and ‘bob’ is correct, I am stupid

    I mis-perceived the situation here as an octal flawless crystal cathedral, when it’s really just a “treacherous toxic Cave” populated with stalactites of damocles, poised to impale the unwary, and drown them in masters of the universe urine.

  • I recommend this Abby Martin interview with Tavis Smiley, who carries on and expresses so well King’s message of deepening love as Guy and Carolyn also are doing now. Of course you take heat from a corrupt system and hypocritical public when you step outside the bounds of permissible thought. ‘Twas ever thus.

  • So of course it picks up the wrong link copy — hate this f’in tablet. Enuf for today. Off to the gym. Wonder when Guy will be back on Abby and Hartmann.

  • Related to my recent essays and comments posted here, note these quotes from my most recent reading, my comments in brackets []:

    From the Prologue to the book, Constant Battles, The Myth of the Peaceful, Noble Savage, by Steven LeBlanc (2003): “I am an archaeologist. I have spent my career attempting to make sense of the past, and I find a world completely at odds with popular misconceptions. Not only is the past I observe NOT peaceful and pristine, but, cruel and ugly as it may be, it provides great insight into the present. THE WARFARE AND ECOLOGICAL DESTRUCTION WE FIND TODAY FIT INTO PATTERNS OF HUMAN BEHAVIOR THAT HAVE GONE ON FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS. HUMANS HAVE BEEN DESTROYING THEIR ENVIRONMENTS FOR A LONG TIME AND CONTINUE TO DO SO FOR THE SAME REASONS THEY DID IN THE PAST. Much of today’s warfare reads just like the warfare of tens of thousands of years ago—the same causes, the same tactics, and the same attitudes. …The past has been sanitized, and the recorders of history have often cast humans as having lived in ecological and peaceful bliss. This is simply not true…. …if we misunderstand the past, then we also misunderstand the present…. …Yet misunderstandings between the past and present can be dangerous. …We are much better off understanding the reality concerning warfare and human ecology, and getting this right is very relevant to understanding how humans became humans and how we function as humans.

    …Since the beginning of time, humans have been UNable to live in ecological balance. No matter where we happen to live on Earth, we eventually outstrip the environment. This has always led to competition as a means of survival, and warfare has been the inevitable consequence of our ecological-demographic propensities. The question that remains is whether humans are genetically programmed to be this way. Or do we have the ability to change the fundamental human-environmental relationship that not only has been with us for millions of years but in many ways made us who we are today?…”

    [Given that best evidence strongly suggests that prior hominids often lived on the same land-base for many tens of thousands of years without killing each other off and without destroying their environments, and given that this situation appears to have changed quickly and dramatically with the appearance of Homo sapiens, I remain pretty confident that we have a genetic PREDISPOSITION to expand and destroy each other and our environment (not a mandate, thus accounting for the great variability over many times and places). Thus, we appear an ultimately failed evolutionary experiment fatal for most, and possibly all, life on Earth. Meanwhile, OF COURSE the huge percentage of human supremacists among us strongly and emotionally disagree!]

    From Thinking, Fast and Slow (2011), by Nobel Prize winner Daniel Kahneman: “… A general ‘law of least effort’ applies to cognitive as well as to physical exertion. [ALL of this energy-related.] The law asserts that if there are several ways of achieving the same goal, people will eventually gravitate to the least demanding course of action. [This occurs cognitively, emotionally, and behaviorally.] In the economy of action, effort is a cost, and the acquisition of skill is driven by the balance of benefits and costs. Laziness is built deep into our nature.” [We have good reason to believe that these principles hold for all humans throughout our evolutionary history, not just for humans since the beginning of agriculture-based civilization about 10,000 years ago, nor just for white people within the past few hundred years.]

  • “It is very sad, but the “heroes” of European historiography, the heroes of the history textbooks, are usually imperialists, butchers, founders of authoritarian regimes, exploiters of the poor, liars, cheats and torturers. What that means is that the wetiko disease has so corrupted European thinking (at least of the ruling groups) that wetiko behavior and wetiko goals are regarded as the very fabric of European evolution. Thus, those who resist wetiko values and imperialism and exploitation specifically, such as the Leveller rebels in England, St. Francis of Assisi, Swiss mountaineers, or Scottish clansmen, are regarded as “quirks,” “freaks,” or rude democrats (“peasants”) who could never exploit enough people to build a St. Peter’s Cathedral or a Versailles palace.”

    – Jack D. Forbes, writing in his foundational book “Columbus and Other Cannibals”

  • Bigotry is not racism. Capitalists have capitalism, Commies have Communism. Racists exist in a system based on racial privilege called race-ism. (Hyphenate for better understanding if necessary).

    In order to be a racist, a person of African or Indigenous descent would need to control and benefit as a matter of institutional prerogative: the cops, the courts, the laws, the legislature, the judges, the banks, lending policies, interest rates, real estate zoning committees, tax policy, immigration policy, foreign policy, the Pentagon, the Fed of New York and the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Absent any of that, anti-caucasian bigots ~can not~ ~in any way~ be termed, coined or characterized in any way as ~a racist.~

    I hope this has been informative and/educational for those who may be unclear on the etymology. Further evidence of Race-ism is the demand for the ability to arbitrarily re-define terms of grammar and linguistic definition to serve their own ends and purposes. I believe this to be perfectly clear to anyone who takes time or trouble to consider the issues.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Ghandi was instrumental in the death of Indian patriot Bhagat Singh and two other of his Anrcho-Commie anti-colonial comrades. Ghandi sold them down the river, after they drove a metaphorical truck through the British occupation and put England on notice that the jig was soon to be up. Ghandi’s political self-interest insured that Singh and his friends would be cowardly executed in the middle of the night, bodies smuggled out of the back of the prison, lit on fire, and the remains thrown in the river to the shame of the British authorities. There is an Indian language film that exists with English subtitles that is highly, immensely recommended. Search Pirate Bay or other torrent sites for “Bhagat Singh”

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    King was murdered when he was supporting a militant garbage workers’ labor union strike. At the time he was openly calling for boycotts of Pepsi and Wonderbread, openly opposing the Vietnam war, getting his own ass kicked in Chicago for calling it one of the most racist cities in the country, and also, incidentally, characterizing the US gov the greatest purveyor of violence in history.

    Can you feel the love?

  • Humans have not existed for millions of years, and as you often cite complexity theory, it contradicts some of the claims made there. The notion that the outcome is inevitable and it is known ahead of time is something complex systems don’t lend themselves to. While I’m not a big believer in the accuracy of computational modelling and simulation, I trust answers obtained from well-crafted experiments using simulations over the theorising of any individual. These simulations can be done by anyone and again, I point to the Limits to Growth (which I believe was initially published in PNAS) modelling which presents alternative scenarios with alternate parametre choices.

    What I can agree on is that the outcomes are largely determined as matter of chance, and robust outcomes where the system perpetuates for arbitrarily long periods are rare and the fragility of complex systems lends itself to a sort of Murphy’s Law where almost any directed perturbation without fully understanding the consequences (which is not possible in a complex system) ends up with a worse outcome. The kind of perturbations tried by evolution (over billions of years and gazillions, an incredible number, of parallel computations) is what seems to work best. However, the very paradigm that gave rise to all life on this planet and our intelligence is what we have eschewed in favour of top down systems and that I think is fundamental problem.

    If bacteria are too primitive of an example (even though they’ve been around in their basic form for billions of years), consider plants which have been around for hundreds of millions of years. These complex systems have existed in a natural complex dynamic equilbrium with their environment in an astonishing manner. I don’t see humans as being exceptional to any other kind of complex system there is and a lot of what I’ve said above is even observable for simpler complex systems (I often say that proteins are simplest examples of complex systems in biology).

  • “Humans have not existed for millions of years”

    The genus Homo has been around for 2.4 million years. The current species is described as anatomically modern humans.
    Human:
    [In common usage, the word “human” generally refers to the only extant species of the genus Homo — anatomically and behaviorally modern Homo sapiens. Its usage often designates differences between the species as a whole and any other nature or entity.

    In scientific terms, the definition of “human” has changed with the discovery and study of the fossil ancestors of modern humans. The previously clear boundary between human and ape blurred, resulting in “Homo” referring to “human” now encompassing multiple species. There is also a distinction between anatomically modern humans and Archaic Homo sapiens, the earliest fossil members of the species, which are classified as a subspecies of Homo sapiens, e.g. Homo sapiens neanderthalensis.]

  • “Humans have not existed for millions of years”

    The genus Homo has been around for 2.4 million years. The current species is described as anatomically modern humans.
    Human:
    [In common usage, the word “human” generally refers to the only extant species of the genus Homo — anatomically and behaviorally modern Homo sapiens. Its usage often designates differences between the species as a whole and any other nature or entity.

    In scientific terms, the definition of “human” has changed with the discovery and study of the fossil ancestors of modern humans. The previously clear boundary between human and ape blurred, resulting in “Homo” referring to “human” now encompassing multiple species. There is also a distinction between anatomically modern humans and Archaic Homo sapiens, the earliest fossil members of the species, which are classified as a subspecies of Homo sapiens, e.g. Homo sapiens neanderthalensis.]

  • Thanks for your contributions, Wester. 🙂

  • Thanks Robin, and I will clarify that I generally use the term human to mean modern humans and if I need to refer to the genus as a whole, then I use the name of genus. I think anything else is unclear/confusing. Terms like bacteria, plants, etc. are also based on common usage. That is a minor nit however and can be clarified in many ways and I understand the general thrust of Bud’s point.

    I also think the points raised by Wester (“sawat di krap”) are related. Love comes in many forms and when we think of nested complex systems forming larger complex systems and so on, these are all capable of a great deal of robustness and breaking them requires a very specific set of boundary conditions to be violated and as long as they are, the centre continues to hold. I am familiar with the story of Bhagat Singh as I’m familiar with a lot of things Gandhi did that didn’t really seem to be consistent with his world view. I think this is natural and exists in all complex systems. I don’t think it’s adequate to say that Gandhi was nonviolent sometimes and therefore his overall philosophy is invalid or that he wasn’t a pacficist: it’s the aggregate behaviour that appears to matter (and this explanation isn’t satisfactory to me at all, but what I observe). Analysing aggregate behaviour of a complex system I think is very difficult generally speaking. But overall I feel that Gandhi and MLK were loving (more than average, in fact) and they achieved a lot using nonviolence as a weapon. I don’t think nonviolence or pacifism is the same as passivity. Even love itself lends itself to curious subphenomena… I’m generally sure parents love their children but I’ve wondered about a lot of things they do in the name of that love. Yet I’d hesitate witnessing such events and saying th parents don’t love their children. It’s aggregate behaviour that matters.

    When exactly did the boundary conditions for our earth system start getting violated so that the entire system started spiralling out of control? When did Guy’s feedbacks start? My view of complex systems is that it was not determined and not determinable a priori that this would happen, say 100,000 years ago. It’s easy to rationalise after the fact, but this isn’t a feature of complex systems generally and like I said, I don’t think humans, and the genus Homo, are an exception.

    The argument as I understand it, is that because of the innate nature of humans, they were going to behave in a way that would end up violating the boundary conditions to cause the complex earth system to destabilise no matter what. That if we rewound the clock an infinite number of times (thought experiment only!), the same outcome would ensue. This theory would lead to the conclusion that humans are somehow exceptional to other complex systems. I’ve not seen convincing evidence of this yet.

    One can argue, why does it matter, we are where we are now and the past is settled. I can accept that but then it doesn’t matter what rationale one comes up with to explain the behaviour. Why bother with rationalisations at all? If one wants to do this sort of analysis (and I think it has its merits), then one must be willing to consider the rewinding the clock thought experiment.

    I think saying that holding on to the slim alternate outcomes within that thought experiment as hopium, etc. is more valid than saying that such outcomes are never possible.

    Thast’s my two posts for the day. More in the forum.

  • “…and when we think of nested complex systems forming larger complex systems and so on, these are all capable of a great deal of robustness and breaking them requires a very specific set of boundary conditions to be violated and as long as they are, the centre continues to hold.”

    So would you say that agriculture or industrialism are complex systems that lead to more complex systems? If so, wouldn’t collapse be due more to those systems than to basic human nature? And the random difference you talk about, could that explain why some peoples (like Australian aborigenes) endured, while others (like Easter Islanders) destroyed their environment?

    But complex systems with increasing ability to alter the environment might be what led to the discovery of fossil fuels. So I get confused. The Australians had a complex system that didn’t change, even after civilization was running rife for 10,000 years. Why is one complex system so different from another? What caused some complex systems to leave the Garden of Eden, leading generations later to collapse, while some remained in the garden?

    I saw an interview by Charlie Rose of a genetic (???) scientist (whose name I didn’t record). He was saying that what we call races are more properly referred to as species. So species difference within the human family is another confusing issue related to behavior patterns.

  • Some of you may find this interesting..

    Dr Nate Hagens ‘The Converging Economic and Envir…: https://youtu.be/Co61gPnCkRw

  • There are several problems with racism that whites will never (for some fool reason) recognize it when it hits them in the face. They cannot understand people of color and the sufferings they have endured. You have to be of color to know. Ask American Indians, the Vietnamese, Mexicans, Haitians, Southern Cone people, if they have been discriminated against, segregated, persecuted and dominated by whites and their progeny throughout the ages!

    Here is the official (none other exists no matter how hard you try to manipulate) Definition of Racism: 1. Program or practice of racial discrimination, segregation, persecution and domination. Racist: of or characterized by racism.

    Here in the South, no one EVER, admits to being a racist, yet, take a look around. Who has the worst schools by far, and the most decrepit housing. Come on people.

    Want a hint as to why the schools are shitty than shit: read Jonathan Kozol’s book, “Savage Inequalities.”

    This group (NBL) is no better than any other I have encountered on the internet. Total ignorance except for Crazy (of course he is someone who knows because his family has felt the slashing and burning that racists do), and I suspect, Guy knows better.

  • Bud,

    BTW, you sir are totally wrong. (The above definition is from the Oxford (written) dictionary.) It is exactly as this sentence of mine:

    “You do not recognize your racism because you define it for yourself in a limited way as: “the oppression of other races”, as you wrote it.

    Of course. This is what whites want to do incessantly. They are ignorant or either embarressed as hell when it is brought up.

  • Anger Problem

    Those shitheads, they’re so full of poo,
    I hate every thing that they do;
    But they’ll soon crap their jeans
    ‘Cause extinction now means
    Those fuckers are going to die too.

  • ‘Are you suggesting I am insane?’

    maybe we’re all a bit insane. our situation seems insane. doesn’t seem to be much of anything anyone can do about it, whether it be regarding overcoming inexorable natural processes, or changing flawed and limited human nature. we’re all victims/beneficiaries of circumstances beyond control. perhaps in this context, the question of (in)sanity is irrelevant.

    ‘Most of what is going on around here is the consequence of hierarchical systems imposed on the masses…’

    kevin, i think u give too much credit/blame to elites. without legions of followers, they’re out of power. it seems many sheeple love ‘authority’, are naturally inclined to support it. it’s not all because of indoctrination.

    ‘The big problem remains unchecked greed’

    don’t forget rampant stupidity-insanity. we’re all subject to greed, but those with a little intelligence/sanity perceive that greed must be tempered/subdued.

  • @ Shep (and thanks Wester)

    the racism is institutional, it’s embedded in the so-called history and expresses it’self in the bias, selective focus and framing, of these cherry picked selected archaeologists, which BTW are a tiny minority, their work not peer-reviewed, (in the context Bud keeps pounding away at on here) and not considering – in fact actively ignoring – the consensus of palaeoecologists, palaeoanthropologists, and palaeontologists. (and this point has been repeatedly pointed out) This minority fringe opinion which is not backed up by actual research or data in the relevant fields, keeps being repeated over & over again as per AGENDA.

    an analogue is an economist advising that global warming does not exist, and that in his opinion, we can continue BAU with mere tweaks to capitalist exploitation and that the ‘market’ will ‘solve’ all prediciments based on supply & demand – totally ignoring the reality of infinite growth in a finite world. (these are the other dogmatic ‘beliefs’ this cluster of entitled first-worlders embrace BTW)

    it’s ALL laughable on it’s face

    that it keeps being repeated here, despite all refutations, citations and rejections, using the exact points I just went over, indicates that the person doing so, is following an agenda to intentionally spread disinformation.

    NOT engaged in any sort of exchange of data, measurements, samples, results, models, projections or forecasts, but only to deliver a monologue, and keep repeating the exact same monologue, using the exact same discredited refuted minority fringe opinion, not backed by facts or even solid research in the relevant fields, but instead it’s entirely a bluff, using only bluster & repetition.

    I encounter the same thing on IMC with a few hard-core climate denialists;

    they repeat fossil fuel stink tank talking points – often long since and thoroughly dis-credited

    I post the citations exposing them as such, along with real science – actual current measurements, samples and readings

    so they ignore it all, across-the-board, wait a few days, and then post the exact same talking points again pretending they weren’t just refuted and their talking points exposed and discredited..

    Bud is doing exactly the same thing – the intent is to whitewash capitalism, capitalist exploitation, the continued extraction and consumption of fossil fuels (a side project of this is casting FUD on renewables by using fossil fuel stink tank talking points like “there’s no such thing as clean energy” – ignoring passive solar, wood, fermentation, vegetable oils and other low-tech / no tech methods Native Americans and other cultures have practised for thousands of generations)

    when you look at the whole picture, not just the single pieces being pounded away at here, in isolation, to keep the big picture fragmented, to keep us from seeing the actual scope of their intentions and plans, the portrait is quite ugly indeed.

    it’s a portrait of capitalist exploiters, using every conceivable means, every dirty trick in the PR playbook, to keep the capitalist exploitation, to keep BAU going for as long as possible, entirely for THEIR benefit, specifically their entitled high fossil energy lifestyles and standing, to protect them from hoards of cold hungry poor people ‘chopping down all the trees’ and placing their heads on pikes WHERE THEY BELONG.

    that is what it’s all about

    this charade, this masquerade of pretending to be interested and concerned about what ancient cultures & peoples did or didn’t do, is a farce, a complete smokescreen, to distract you from what they’re doing right now, and aim to continue to do, as long as possible, until the very last second

    ..the future and the rest of us be damned

    as it’s always been with them

  • Maybe we could do away with question of primitive homo sapiens’ worst intentions by realizing something pretty simple: they’re us. Human development is a continuum. It’s taken tens of thousands of years of social evolution before we/they were prevalent and skilled enough to wreak worldwide damage, but I doubt the “average” primitive was really on a different path. I do think it’s possible that certain indigenous cultures’ wisdom overtook their “evolution” before it was too late, that they learned in small groups about the folly of certain detrimental “human” actions like overpopulation … and then, having no such wisdom, we ate them.

  • I’ve posted a plethora of information. It’s here.

  • Diarmuid Galvin

    Thanks for the link. I listened to just about all of it, and liked the psychological analysis of human behavior, especially. We are exceedingly group oriented.

    I copy it here:

    Dr Nate Hagens ‘The Converging Economic and Envir…:

    “Want a hint as to why the schools are shitty than shit: read Jonathan Kozol’s book, “Savage Inequalities.”

    I saw an interview with him, but since I subbed for years in “inner city” schools, I already knew what hell holes they were. Teachers with very limited perspectives. Funding based on local tax base, meaning that people needing the most help got the least. Kids from totally dysfunctional homes and whose biggest problem was getting to and from school without getting killed. The penal system in complicity with the education system. Boredom, ensuring that the brightest kids would drop out and take to the streets. I could go on, but the list is too long.