Recent and Forthcoming Travels

A recently completed, 12-day speaking tour to California and southern Oregon totaled more than 20 formal events and many additional informal ones. Big thanks to my friends Peter Melton and Wolf for their entertaining company, and to Peter for voluntarily taking on the task of my west-coast manager (and performing the task brilliantly).

Yes, I traveled with Peter and the Wolf. My life has become a children’s story. The best part: I get to play the child.

I accumulated a few lines and analogies along the way, thanks to my friends. A few are listed below.

Me, explaining the impact of carbon dioxide emissions on temperature rise: “It’s not a car. It’s a greenhouse on wheels.”

Me, in response to somebody apologizing for arriving a few minutes late for a discussion: “It’s fine. Whenever you show up for one of my events, it’s the end.”

Peter Melton: “I have bad news and good news. The bad news is that climate change is a real, immediate, dire problem. The good news is that this problem fixes all our other problems.”

Wolf, on the topic of societal response to abrupt climate change: “I was concerned because we wouldn’t change. Now I’m liberated because we can’t change.”

Peter’s Titanic analogy:

The captain speaks into the public address system: “We’re about to hit an iceberg. We don’t know how long we have. Dinner will not be served. The band will continue to play in the lounge.”

Peter then points out that almost every response is appropriate. Some people will want to snuggle with their sweetie in the berth. Others will prefer to party in the lounge. Somebody will want to kill the captain. People will want to launch lifeboats. Others will want to built lifeboats from the existing furniture. At this point, blame and judgment are misguided.

My responses to Peter’s analogy were two-fold: It’s too optimistic (there are no lifeboats) and please don’t kill the captain messenger (he looks a lot like me).

Peter came up with another analogy. He’s a smart man. In this one, the apes in the jungle discover fire and its myriad uses. They modify their habitat in exciting ways. But when they weren’t paying proper attention, they burned down the jungle. Whoops.

Again, let’s not seek a culprit to blame. Let’s abandon guilt and judgment. We’re all in this together, until we’re not.

My gratitude was reinforced many fold on this tour, in large part because of my interactions with my new friends. I get to live, and my message encourages others to live with urgency. Ditto for my liberation. The shackles of culture are meaningless. The absurdity grows ever more profound.

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As indicated below, I will be traveling for the next couple weeks and will have limited access to the Internet. Please try to behave.

Huge thanks to Kevin Hester for hosting and organizing and funding my trip to New Zealand. Thanks, too, to Shaun Pettigrew for media support.

New Zealand poster October 2014

New Zealand poster number 2

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Catch Nature Bats Last on the radio with Mike Sliwa and Guy McPherson. Tune in every Tuesday at 8:00 p.m. Eastern time, or catch up in the archives here. If you prefer the iTunes version, including the option to subscribe, you can click here.

The show from two nights ago, on 14 October 2014, is archived here.
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McPherson’s latest book is co-authored by Carolyn Baker. Extinction Dialogs: How to Live with Death in Mind is available.

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Find and join the Near-Term Human Extinction Support Group on Facebook here

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If you have registered, or you intend to register, please send an email message to guy.r.mcpherson@gmail.com. Include the online moniker you’d like to use in this space. I’ll approve your registration as quickly as possible. Thanks for your patience.

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Going Dark is available from the publisher here, from Amazon here, from Amazon on Kindle here, from Barnes & Noble on Nook here, and as a Google e-book here. Going Dark was reviewed by Carolyn Baker at Speaking Truth to Power, Anne Pyterek at Blue Bus Books, and by more than three dozen readers at Amazon.

Comments 72

  • Cowgirl Apocalypse Haiku #103

    Tried walking away-
    now hacking at ball and chain.
    Married to empire.

  • Got to pass this routine along from a friend. This represents most of humanity in the capitalist world.

    Louis CK – Hilarious – Part 7 – The Way We Talk
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLoqhvZ1SZI#t=186

  • I would love to see how Scott Johnson at Fractal Planet (and similar other blogs) would respond to the following points. Unfortunately, he banned me from commenting there precisely because I politely and assertively persisted in raising issues like these. He insists on framing all supposedly “good” and “valid” natural science exclusively in naïve, positivist terms. He insists, with human-centered, human supremacist arrogance, on the predictability and reversibility by humans of complex systems. He cannot accommodate the following and related issues within his reasoning, so he must censor those who persist in pointing to them. (For more on the importance of framing in controlling and biasing a discussion, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_effect_(psychology), as well as the works of Canadian sociologist Erving Goffman and the cognitive linguist George Lakoff. Also see George Marshall’s book, Don’t Even Think About It, Why Our Brains Are Wired To Ignore Climate Change, 2014, for descriptions of many other argumentation methods that Johnson and many others use to keep the discussion of global heating situated comfortingly and exclusively within the realm of positivist, reductionist natural science reasoning.)

    The religion of humanism underlies Johnson’s scientific reasoning. It exists as the dominant religion of our time. As David Ehrenfeld wrote in his wonderful book, The Arrogance of Humanism (1981), the core of humanism involves “…a supreme faith in human reason—its ability to confront and solve the many problems that humans face, its ability to rearrange both the world of Nature and the affairs of men and women so that human life will prosper. Accordingly, as humanism is committed to an unquestioning faith in the power of reason, so it rejects other assertions of power, including the power of God, the power of supernatural forces, and even the undirected power of Nature in league with blind chance. The first two don’t exist, according to humanism; the last can, with effort, be mastered. Because human intelligence is the key to human success, the main task of the humanist is to assert its power and protect its prerogatives wherever they are questioned or challenged.” Thus the strong need for biased framing and censorship. Meanwhile “Absolute faith in our ability to control our own destiny is a dangerous fallacy.” (Ehrenfeld.) The two key, untestable assumptions of humanism include: (1) All problems are soluble, and (2) all problems are soluble by people.

    Most who argue at Fractal Planet and similar blogs want unequivocal “answers” to the puzzles of global heating. They will, of course, never come by any such unequivocal answers, and they cannot accept the facts of the uncertainty and irreversibility inherent in complex systems. To the extent that their Cartesian, deterministic science succeeds in this endeavor, it will have succeeded in asking only those limited and frequently trivial kinds of questions that an equation can answer. The rest remains arrogance and pretense, and people with an understanding of modern physics and complexity theory will not likely remain fooled for long.

    Maybe someone else will raise these points with Johnson; maybe not. If anyone would like to raise these points with him while not attributing them to me so that he will not censor them as he certainly would if I asked, you have my permission. If anyone does ask, I would definitely like to read his responses:

    (1) We can break an egg, but having broken this single-cell “simple” system, we cannot reverse the process and “fix” it. If we cannot even reverse this process, an infinitely “simple” living system, in comparison with global heating and our broken biosphere, how does he and many others(!) reason that we presumably can reverse and “fix” global heating, the extinction of about 200 species every day, and the collapsing living communities of Earth’s biosphere?

    (2) As the late economist E.F. Schumacher wrote: “The real world…is not a deterministic system; we may be able to talk with certainty about acts or events of the past…but we can do so about future events only on the basis of assumptions….It must be clear that, change being a function of time, the longer term future is even less predictable than the short-term. In fact, all long-term forecasting is somewhat presumptive and absurd, unless it is of so general a kind that it merely states the obvious.” Meanwhile, Johnson, and others who think as he does, insist that “It’s all just physics” and therefore, presumably, both predictable, reversible, and “solvable” using positivist science because they neither respect nor integrate any physics beyond linear, deterministic, Baconian-Cartesian-Newtonian physics. Thus they continue their attacks on Guy’s and other’s character and credentials, as well as questioning the validity of “the science” of others, all based on their simplistic and humanistic, exclusively deterministic scientific framing of global heating phenomena.

    (3) The meteorologist, Eric Kraus has given three ample reasons why the long-term prediction of even INANIMATE processes is quite impossible: “First, we can never know the present completely; second, we are not able to make errorless deductions from what we know; and third, our limited imaginations may prevent us from asking the right questions. Depending on the complexity of the system with which we are concerned, we always arrive—sooner or later—at a cutoff point beyond which reliance on scientific analysis becomes superstition because it can tell us no more than intuition or reliance on chance.

    (4) Meanwhile, human history, which includes most of the living and non-living processes near the surface of Earth, represents perhaps the most complex of all systems, therefore it has the lowest predictability. Kraus elaborates with these four paragraphs:

    “One cannot predict the exact position of a ball after two or three rebounds from the walls of a squash court. The initial movement of the ball is never known precisely. This uncertainty may be small, but it is amplified at each bounce…. A hurricane cold have been set going by the wingbeat of a solitary gull somewhere over the wide ocean….

    When DDT was first introduced as a pesticide on farms in Arizona and California, it did not occur to anyone to ask whether or not that could affect the eggshells of pelicans on Pacific islands….

    ALL SCIENCE INVOLVES SIMPLIFICATIONS. There is an inevitable discrepancy between our scientific models and the much more richly textured world of everyday experience…. This means that the model does not contain all the information which would be needed to simulate a process as it really occurs. The resulting uncertainty grows with time—like any other uncertainty….

    In general, uncertainty increases with the number of possible answers to a question…. One can get a good prediction only in answer to a relatively crude question. There is always a trade-off between information content and reliability.”

  • Check this out: more ‘duck and cover’ advice from HOMELAND SECURITY. Do not forget plenty of batteries.

    Homeland Security Safeguard Items
    • Smoke detector with extra batteries • Water, one gallon per person per day, for drinking and for
    sanitation • Food, at least a three-day supply of nonperishable food • Whistle to signal for help • Wrench or pliers to turn off utilities • Household fire extinguishers for kitchen and all bedrooms (5 lb, A-B-C type) • Foldable ladder for evacuation from high windows or porches • Heavy-duty flashlight with extra batteries • First aid kit • Battery-powered radio with extra batteries • National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) Weather Radio with a battery
    backup and tone-alert feature to receive weather and other emergency alerts • Camp stove or canned heat stove, with extra fuel • Hurricane shutters or cut-to-order marine plywood and heavy nails for windows • FEMA and Citizen Corps publications
    (SOURCE: The U.S. Department of Homeland Security Web site, http://www.ready.gov/make_a_kit.html, accessed on March 19, 2004.)

  • Guy,

    Just a couple of options:

    In your first quip, you might change “greenhouse” to “torpedo”.

    An alternative to your second one might be: “A little late to the party ? Fugeddaboudit…
    it’s not like it’s the end of the world or anything…
    Oh, wait…”
    ———————

    Peter Melton’s good/bad news bit is perfect. If Douglas Hofstadter were writing for you, hard to believe he could improve on that.
    ————————————

    Like an electron that exists in every possible location…at times my mind is in synch with the idea that blame and judgement are misguided.
    But, I think at least some folks here could appreciate the merit of changing the Titanic to one of the ships that worked the Rum & Slave Triangle. Not a perfect analogy, but maybe closer to our global predicament. The idea that we are born into this set of living arrangements is closer to one of those ships than to a vessel on which people who had a choice chose to spend money to buy a berth on.
    ————————-
    .
    .
    .
    What, like you thought I was gonna put up “Bertha” ?
    .
    .

  • great musical selections people!

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/17/world/africa/because-of-ebola-ambulance-work-in-liberia-is-a-busy-and-lonely-business.html?_r=0

    Ambulance Work in Liberia Is a Busy and Lonely Business

    Video Feature: Fighting Ebola, Street by Street

  • infanttyrone: saw a great version of Ship of Fools last night, entire second set seemed to be a long commentary on the state of the world (Ashkenaz Club in Berkeley, Stu Allen/Mars Hotel), thought you’d be happy to know.

  • A timely reminder of what self-serving liars and ideologues have said in the past, which is oh so similar to what self-serving liars and ideologues are saying now.

    ‘The talking heads will be rolled out on CNBC to assure the masses that all is well. The economy is strong. Corporate profits are awesome. The stock market will go higher. Op-eds will be written by Wall Street CEOs telling you it’s the best time to invest. Federal Reserve presidents will give speeches saying there are clear skies ahead. Obama will hold a press conference to tell you how many jobs he’s added and how low the budget deficit has gone.

    We couldn’t possibly be entering phase two of our Greater Depression after a temporary lull provided by the $8 trillion pumped into the veins of Wall Street by the Fed and Obama. Could we?’

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-16/pompous-prognostications-permanently-high-plateau-prophets

  • “A man is known by the company he keeps”, or so the saying goes. Rueing one’s inability to grunt while rooting at “Fractal Planet” or some other cesspit is a similar indicator.

    In a barn with an attic and a ladder to the attic, to get to the attic one has to climb the ladder and then get off the ladder. Discarding the ladder at the outset is no way to get to the attic. Insisting on staying on the ladder also keeps one out of the attic. With rungs of logical reasoning and rails of compassionate love with empathic understanding the ladder is needed to get to the attic of wisdom. And then one has to get off it, but this only works when one has reached the attic.

    Looking at the attic is like hearing about wisdom. But unlike the attic metaphor in which on entering the attic, one is in the attic, on reaching wisdom, one IS wise, and all heard descriptors fall short.

  • @ Sabine-
    Hey there, thanks for the shout out! Be well, sister :).

    @ Robin D-
    Any NTHE thoughts on what to do with the ladder, once one is in the attic?

    @ Peter
    (Spoiler Alert!) Your vision of the (apes) burning down the forest is depicted in the latest Planet of the Apes movie! Latest PotA isn’t great, but there are wonderfully creepy scenes of some apes ‘breaking bad’ and taking up guns (and subsequently becoming brutal, trigger-happy, psychopaths).

  • Naomi Klein and Bill McKibben Naive?
    how to spread ebola
    dishonesty for the kids
    kumbuya around the campfire
    sing whahoowa sing whahoowa
    is the guarantor of
    fate neverlasting

  • hopium wars- arguments between doomers and hope fiends

    hope fiend- dogmatic optimist, hope addict

  • Didn’t get a response to this in another pretty-much-abandoned thread. Anyone?

    “A bit of a wildcard Has been thrown in. According to Reuters, Lockheed
    claims a “breakthrough” in fusion technology, says it will have a
    commercial reactor in a decade. OK, most likely hype intended to boost
    its sagging stock price. But this for sure will scramble public
    perceptions regarding peak oil, as every denier will wave this item and
    scream “See?”

  • Jeff S.,
    Thanks for the mention of the Dead tribute band. I’ve seen them on the right-hand side of YT screens from time to time but never listened. Will give them a try soon. Wanted to post Elvis Costello’s version with Furthur, but neither clip on YT would load. (It’s rainy season down here…things like that happen.)

    Re Lockheed fusion: Maybe hype as you suspect, but some of their divisions make some pretty far out stuff, so who knows? I read Tim Garrett’s 2009 paper recently and recall him saying that just to keep things the way they were back then IndCiv would need to bring on line one new nuke per day. If Lockheed has the goods, they’ll probably sell a lot of fusion reactors. Probably far too late to change the near-term endgame. But maybe you could make enough fiat dough by going long to be able to afford one of those powered respirators.

    Carefully not posting any YT clips by “fusion” groups…

  • @ Jeff S. Says:
    October 16th, 2014 at 5:40 pm

    From this article

    One of the top scientists at the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (Iter) told the Guardian: “Let’s just say that since they don’t provide any technical details of what their ‘breakthrough’ actually involves, I am very sceptical. It’s amazing how much publicity you can generate with minimal information.”

    It appears that this is because the reactor in question has not been built and tested yet. “Some key parts of the prototype are theoretical and not yet proven,” Nathan Gilliland, CEO of General Fusion who are working on their own fusion reactor, told Wired.

    Yep, pure, unadulterated BS, especially since the world will be very much different ten years from now, probably even sooner, and not in a good way.

  • ‘Fer the folks who h’ain’t done their homework ’bout Lockjaw fusion.

    “Any NTHE thoughts on what to do with the ladder, once one is in the attic?”

    The one who IS IN the attic needs the ladder to come down from the attic. For the one who IS wise, there is no coming or going from oneself.

  • Guy,
    from the poster on the left at the bottom of the post, concerning the NZ speaking tour, you head is now officially bigger than the Earth!

    Don’t let it go to your head brother, all the Extinction stuff.

    Long prophesied by many traditions, especially Hindu scriptures, (Robin, please assist!).
    But I hope the speaking tour is successful.
    Best wishes there.
    If I wasn’t already booked I would have Fossil Flown there to meet and listen.
    Cheers

    All

    Cold Fusion? What the heck does anyone think humans are? Infinite energy at our fingertips – literally.

    Nah….they’re just giving the time machine thingy a shot, again.

    Worked before. Got us here….?
    😉

  • Colin Says:
    October 16th, 2014 at 7:19 pm

    “@ Jeff S. Says:
    October 16th, 2014 at 5:40 pm

    From this article…

    One of the top scientists at the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (Iter) told the Guardian: “Let’s just say that since they don’t provide any technical details of what their ‘breakthrough’ actually involves, I am very sceptical. It’s amazing how much publicity you can generate with minimal information.”

    It appears that this is because the reactor in question has not been built and tested yet. “Some key parts of the prototype are theoretical and not yet proven,” Nathan Gilliland, CEO of General Fusion who are working on their own fusion reactor, told Wired.

    Yep, pure, unadulterated BS, especially since the world will be very much different ten years from now, probably even sooner, and not in a good way.”

    Thanks, Colin. Damn, it’s even more gross and crass than i suspected. Parts of it are “theoretical”? No technical details provided? I’d love to see one of those Lockheed executives take a ride in a car whose braking system is theoretical.

    infanttyrone: indeed, Elvis’s version of Ship is beautiful. Good point about Tim Garret.

  • “Long prophesied by many traditions, especially Hindu scriptures, (Robin, please assist!).”

    In the Vedic & Buddhist traditions there is a cyclic creation & dissolution of the universe (in some schools of both Vedic & Buddhist thought, universes) in an infinite series of cycles.

    What happens in each “here & now” is all-important for that “here & now”, and any string of “heres & nows” has its particular significance in its own context.

    The significance of a string of heres & nows changes with changes in context. In the context of an infinite series of cycles, any finite sequence, no matter how long, does not retain any significance.

  • Bud,

    I’m sure you have a good idea of Scott’s probable answers to your questions. However you start by accusing him of something that I doubt he’d agree with; that the religion of humanism underlies his scientific reasoning. That is just your opinion and I feel sure he’d say that scientific reasoning underlies his scientific reasoning.

    On your first question, having read many of Scott’s responses, he doesn’t necessarily think that warming is reversible and I’m not sure where you got that. You also assume that estimates of 200 species per day are accurate. Your other points seem to be saying that the future cannot be known, which is pretty much what I’ve said here many times.

    Jeff S, that cold fusion thing isn’t really a wildcard. For one, these cold fusion breakthroughs seem to turn up regularly but never amount to anything. Don’t hold your breath. However, if it isn’t already too late to avoid dangerous climate change, it will be by the time any cold fusion technology becomes ubiquitous. If some energy miracle does occur, however, expect even more environmental destruction by humans. I don’t believe in miracles, though.

  • Let me make it clear for the record that I am in no way on board with the following proclamation: “Let’s not seek a culprit to blame. Let’s abandon guilt and judgment.”

    From my perch well outside the Imperial Center, I find this plainly not to be the case at all. One set of humans had an 8 generation head start on turning the shared planetary environment into their own personal sewer. And I don’t think that includes Lao villagers, upcountry Cambodians, rural Kenyans and a whole hell of a lot of the rest of humanity. Persons espousing that it’s not a very good or productive idea to look in the rearview mirror usually look a lot like 00s era Bush voters and their chosen vanguard who left a gigantic bloody wreck of carnage and apocalyptic destruction in their wake and who, just coincidentally, are the one’s who benefit the most from abrogating blame, guilt and judgement. Coincidentally again, it is not surprising that this idea is coming out of the Imperial Center. Concomitantly, if unintentionally offering an easy out to the social structures most responsible for killing the planet and all life on earth.

    If it was up to me, there are a number of specific individuals who I would personally hold down and kick repeatedly and severely until they come around to a glimmer of realization of reality. However knowing what I know of psychology, even then I seriously doubt if any consciousness of enormity of the crime would be allowed to reach consciousness, for if it did, there would probably be a danger of manifesting what African psychologist Dr. Frank Wilderson calls a potential “Complete Implosion of the Physical Being’

    Let me reiterate again, that I have come to view the entire Imperial Center as a gigantic exercise in self-alienated anti-human anti-life hyper-pathology. Perhaps the most psychotic destructive and terrifying cultural monster ever manifest in history. A Weitiko as the Cree have called it, or E‘epa (mind disease) as the native Hawaiians might say. And that’s a sickness now infesting the planet but originating and most powerful in The Center.

    And from where I sit, The Center is where it needs to be addressed. Perhaps most expediently as ceasing to exist. Kaput. Gone. Thank you.

    And again, let me reiterate that my view is not biological or culturally generalized in “human” and what “we” do. It’s mostly people in The Center who come out with these pronouncements because their understanding is that they are surrounded by what they see as people just like them. (What Fromm calls The Insane Society). And so it’s easy to generalize out from that group…but I can assure you from personal observation inside and out that these pathological condemnations of all humanity don’t pertain out here in the wilderness, and are probably a completely unconscious Psychological Projection. What Jung might have called an Archetypal Nightmare now expelled into the rest of humanity.

    I’m reposting links to two podcasts from last week. Naomi Klein and Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz. Both of whom, independent of each other, posit that it is COLONIALISM that is inexorably intertwined with the problem of climate change, something that I have been struggling to come to grips with myself over the past 3 years.

    http://nuarchive.wbai.org/…/wbai_141010_090000gunsbutter.mp3

    This is the Democracy Now interview with Naomi Klein. SEE ESPECIALLY #4 and #5 on this list: I know I was hard on her last week. After listening to this, though, I do have more respect for her analysis. Especially in regards to the (1)pathology of a green capitalist economy, (2) that there are no more non-radical solutions, and (3) the urgency for a massive ideological debate (4) The need for those who had a 200 year head start on emissions to take the lead and as Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz explained in her WBAI interview (5) The intertwined relationship of colonialism and climate change.

    First Voices Indigenous Radio 2 hour interview with Roxanne Dunbar Ortiz
    http://nuarchive.wbai.org/mp3/wbai_141009_100004turnitup.mp3

    Excellent, compelling interview tracing origins of capitalism in the English enclosure movement, the colonization of Ireland & other places and the intertwining of capitalism with global colonialism and it’s root relation to the problem of climate change. First rate brilliant analysis from the author of An Indigenous People’s History of the United States.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    So let me state again for the record that I am not down with the Kubler-Ross stage of “Acceptance” nor am I on about absolving the Imperial Center, not casting blame squarely upon those who need to understand it most if there is any hope in hell of getting any species, much less human beings through this infernal apocalyptic nightmare. These concepts are fully disempowering the very people who most need the analysis and motivation to get out of their rut and get about the business of leading by example.

    Thank you for your consideration.

  • for anyone interested:

    http://www.wikileaks.org/tpp-ip2/pressrelease/

    Press Release – Updated Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPP) – IP Chapter (second publication)

    [quote]

    The 77-page, 30,000-word document is a working document from the negotiations in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, dated 16 May 2014, and includes negotiator’s notes and all country positions from that period in bracketed text. Although there have been a couple of additional rounds of talks since this text, little has changed in them and it is clear that the negotiations are stalling and that the issues raised in this document will be very much on the table in Australia this month.

    http://www.desdemonadespair.net/2014/10/how-deforestation-helped-unleash-ebola.html

    How deforestation helped unleash Ebola

    [quotes]

    the most recent outbreak of this particular strain of the Ebola virus began last December, in a town called Meliandou in the sleepy “Forest Region” of Guinea. That is, it used to be forested

    Ordinary life in Meliandou came to an end on the day last December when the Ebola virus, which had last claimed a fatality thousands of miles away, arrived in the village, most likely in the body of a fruit bat — its natural non-human reservoir, according to a virtual consensus among scientists. Mining and clear-cutting had driven bats from their natural habitats and occasionally closer to people, like those of Meliandou. And fruit bats love palm and mango, which ripen in the village’s remaining trees. Bats also feed in colonies, which makes them tempting targets: a single shotgun blast can bring down 10. [there’s more at the link]

  • lest we “forget” Fukushima (huge article and video):

    http://robinwestenra.blogspot.co.nz/2014/10/report-on-fukushima.html

    While there are even more reasons for concern:

    http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2014/10/17/the-next-disease-outbreak-might-start-with-new-yorks-insanely-diseased-rats/

    The next disease outbreak might start with New York’s insanely diseased rats

    October 2014 – NEW YORK – Here’s a shocking fact for you: Rats, the cute, cuddly creatures you sometimes see around your city, are actually kind of gross. And to find out just how gross, researchers at New York’s Columbia University decided to do some tests, and the answer is clear: They’re dangerously gross. The researchers examined the pathogens present in 133 rats in Manhattan and found food-borne illnesses, diseases never-before seen in New York and undiscovered viruses. Peter Daszak, the president of EcoHealth Alliance, told the New York Times it’s a “recipe for a public health nightmare.” The background: Scientists set traps in a few Manhattan buildings to catch the pests. “New York rats are a lot wilier than rats in other cities,” researcher Cadhla Firth told the New York Times. “We had to bait traps and just leave them open for a week.” Once they had their quota, they were able to extract tissue and look for pathogens. Some of the highlights include salmonella, vicious strains of E. coli and Seoul hantavirus, which had never before been found in New York. They even discovered 18 new viruses, including some that seem similar to the virus that causes hepatitis C.

    While that may seem scary, scientists are calling it a good thing — now they can figure out how humans might be affected. The takeaway: The big health scares often deal with pathogens in other parts of the world coming here — Ebola comes to mind, along with our old friends SARS and bird flu. That’s why politicians get worked into a tizzy tying disease outbreaks to immigration. But one quick look at some rats and it becomes clear that the U.S. is far from some hygienic paradise that can only be spoiled by foreigners. “Everybody’s looking [for pathogens] all over the world, in all sorts of exotic places, including us,” Columbia professor Ian Lipkin told the New York Times. “But nobody’s looking right under our noses.” When the next big illness comes, it has as good a chance of as any of coming from the rats in your city. So give a little thanks that some researchers have started the dirty work. And maybe ask your roommate to stop leaving food out. -MIC

  • @ Jeff

    you got all the response you deserve:

    C

    cold fusion = vapourware (too bad self-educating took a backseat to troll baiting, again)

    @ Wester

    ” ..a number of specific individuals who I would personally hold down and kick repeatedly and severely..”

    we intend to celebrate around their heads on pikes

    “there are no more non-radical solutions”

    imagine going on a pirate station – ran by those who risk their personal freedom and possessions everyday, and proceeding to tell them what radical is and isn’t. sure there may be a definition of it being ‘getting to the root or core’ of an issue, but the popular definition means taking risks and being the change you want to see in the world like in the 60’s when actual progress was made in social and environmental justice, and it’s all been all downhill ever since.

    ‘if broadcasting the truth on the air changed anything they’d make it illegal’

    “colonialism and climate change” – and the profit funded, massive propaganda campaign to:

    1.) sow FUD and keep people in the dark & fed shit
    2.) deflect attention from the group buying this PR

    – which the latest theme de’jur that we’re now being pelted with, even on this ‘radical’ blog

    Yes Wester the PR ministries are disempowering us, so we won’t wise up and end up disemboweling them

  • Tom: “Seemorerocks” had a discussion with Nicole Foss about climate change. I think she does have a point; economic, political, financial, and disease problems will hit us before climate does. In other words, “no food” will be a result of collapse, not because things won’t grow. That means folks will need to deal with this long before they deal with NTHE caused by methane.

  • “The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of [billions] is a statistic.” – Joseph Stalin

  • Tony, you’re clearly too lazy to do your own research, so here’s a link. It’s from more than four years ago, and from the United Nations, so it’s undoubtedly conservative. It indicates 150-200 species are driven to extinction every day. Find it here.

    And take your bullshit elsewhere if you have nothing to offer here. You and Johnson’s other acolytes just can’t come to grips with reality, including that offered by the refereed journal literature (e.g., Tim Garrett’s excellent work). Johnson continues to deny the significance of atmospheric methane, claiming it’s a problem for future generations. That’s all we need to know about Johnson and his fans.

  • DAIRY,
    IT FIGURES! (Ebola Vaccine)

    all,

    I just uncovered this band in my closet. Been sittin’ there for years and years? Do not know where it came from?

    For your perusal and listening pleasure:

    http://WWW.CHUMBAWAMBA.COM

    One about the Royals:

  • Wester: i share your antagonism to the “let’s not blame anyone” BS. But Naomi Klein’s “solution” really amounts to nothing more than a “green” state-regulated capitalism, she’s totally clueless in all sorts of ways, including the fact that she sells the idea of “alternatives” powering the world at pretty much present levels of consumption and energy use, claiming that Germany shows the way, even echoing the claim that half of Germany’s energy need was met by alternatives for at least a day this year, when in fact it was for a minute under low energy demand and high supply, and that only being the electricity. I’m baffled by why you think she’s against “green capitalism” when in fact that’s the CONTENT of her program. She’s on the board of 350 dot org, disinformation deluxe.

    And i don’t know where people came up with the idea that i was talking cold fusion, total crap. I was inquiring about the Lockheed claim of fusion breakthrough, not involving cold fusion at all. and the Lockheed claim looks like extreme baseless hype, “pure, unadulterated BS,” as Colin showed.

  • Bueller ? Anyone ? What if the Ebola situation was planned in order to test the geoengineering effects of a smallish nuke dropped on or over West Africa ?
    You think plans like this aren’t ever done in advance?
    Try reading Dr. Carole Rosin’s account of her meeting at Fairchild when she was a protegee of Werner von Braun.
    Planning on the decades-out level.
    You can’t believe all the conspiracy stories,
    but you shouldn’t discount/disbelieve them all either.

    c_i & Wester,
    Keep reminding us of your analysis of the ‘blame game’.
    I don’t disagree with any of your recent posts about it.
    Sure, the audience for things like NASCAR share in the overall blame,
    but not to the level of the promoters/drivers/TV networks/etc.
    Addresses & names indeed.

    Caution though…if you didn’t go to middle school with your direct action cohorts, maybe safer to plan the activity as a solo adventure.
    Survivors of the ’60’s can tell you stories about agents provocateurs.
    Trust new recruits about as far as you can throw the Koch brothers.
    Read ‘Vineland’ or something like it if you think well-intentioned people can’t be turned into snitches or worse.

  • Bueller ? Anyone ?
    What if the Ebola situation was planned in order to test the geoengineering effects of a smallish nuke dropped on or over West Africa ?
    You think plans like this aren’t ever done in advance?
    Try reading Dr. Carole Rosin’s account of her meeting at Fairchild when she was a protegee of Werner von Braun.
    Planning on the decades-out level.
    You can’t believe all the conspiracy stories,
    but you shouldn’t discount/disbelieve them all either.

    c_i & Wester,
    Keep reminding us of your analysis of the ‘blame game’.
    I don’t disagree with any of your recent posts about it.
    Sure, the audience for things like NASCAR share in the overall blame,
    but not to the level of the promoters/drivers/TV networks/etc.
    Addresses & names indeed.

    Caution though…if you didn’t go to middle school with your direct action cohorts, maybe safer to plan the activity as a solo adventure.
    Survivors of the ’60’s can tell you stories about agents provocateurs.
    Trust new recruits about as far as you can throw the Koch brothers.
    Read ‘Vineland’ or something like it if you think well-intentioned people can’t be turned into snitches or worse.

    sorry if this double posts…

  • Wester,

    ‘Let me make it clear for the record that I am in no way on board with the following proclamation: “Let’s not seek a culprit to blame. Let’s abandon guilt and judgment.”

    I agree with your sentiment. Indeed, perhaps I take the attribution of blame further than you.

    My local council, NPDC, is in continuous breach of the government statutes (law), i.e. it is continuously engaged in criminal activities, in order to promote the short-term interests of a tiny minority of local opportunists and the short-term interests of corporations and money-lenders. In other words breaking the law -which is very specific about what councils should be doing- in order to bring about increased inequality and increased inequity and faster environmental meltdown.

    The CEO, Barbara McKerrow, is a criminal; the mayor, Andrew Judd, is a criminal. Andrew Judd is also a gutless liar. But he does claim to be a ‘Christian’, so I suppose that makes cowardly mendacity ‘acceptable’; many senior and long-serving councillors are criminals.

    In New Zealand we use the term fuckwit to describe a person of very low capacity to think rationally. A few days ago I encountered Murray Chong, a councillor who was elected to NPDC approximately a year ago, on near one of the latest boondoggles being constructed in the district. I said: “We are governed by fuckwits and liars.” I was not being specific because the statement does apply throughout almost the entire political system……people who have the law pointed out to them and then proceed to disobey it, in order to bring about destruction of the community they live in, destruction of the nation they live in, and destruction of the planet they live on. The words saboteur and traitor come to mind.

    Of course, there is no recourse through the ‘justice system’ to rectify the abysmal state of affairs because the ‘justice system’ is corrupt to the core.

    Therefore, we are forced to wait until conditions are made intolerable by the maniacs in power, and the inevitable implosion occurs.

    Yes, it would be good to see the criminals who orchestrate the looting-and-polluting held to account.

    Ron Resnick, now deceased, used to say that he looked forward to seeing the ‘Mussolini moment’, but the criminals in the central banks and their associates in the tar sands and fracking sectors have managed to delay the collapse long enough for Ron to not see the local criminals ‘heads on pikes’.

    Interestingly, Murray Chong had a huge promotional billboard featuring a photo-shopped depiction of ‘the man on the Moon’, with the slogan: ‘One small step for Murray, a giant leap for New Plymouth’.

    Having reviewed a lot more of the evidence I am now 100% certain the Apollo program did not put men on the Moon as depicted in the famous photos and videos, and that the whole thing was a cleverly orchestrated scam, just as 9/11 was a cleverly orchestrated scam. The Apollo program was also the biggest boondoggle of all time, a self-perpetuating ‘monster’ that kept going because there was private contractor money to be made, and it provided plenty of opportunities for egotistical ‘chimps’ to gain public approval and glory.

  • dairymandave.

    ‘I think she does have a point; economic, political, financial, and disease problems will hit us before climate does. In other words, “no food” will be a result of collapse, not because things won’t grow.’

    http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/

    I worked out some time ago that Nicole Foss doesn’t know what she’s talking about half the time, which is why I take little notice of anything she says.

  • @ Jeff

    all fusion – ‘cold’ or not (cold fusion is the one most associated with the vapourware promises)

    – and it’s the same problem that fission has.

    as I’ve stated before all nuclear reactions produce neutrons which activate non-radioactive elements, causing them to become radioactive too. (the containment, the concrete, even the water) which leaves behind tons of nuclear waste, much of which remains so for millions of years.

    – this is the nuclear industry’s dirty little secret

    Nuclear physicists looked into NASA having on-board reactors for space travel, and concluded there is no practicable way to shield against the neutron flux nor prevent the activation of containment, with the exception of K-40 and a few other even rarer isotopes, and that there’s no way to separate K-40 (from other isotopes of Potassium) in amounts needed to produce shielding.

    The spacecraft would become so radioactive it would end up killing the occupants in a matter of months, and trying to go faster wouldn’t reduce this deadly exposure since doing so would require vastly more energy, increasing the neutron flux along with it.

    Solar sails it turns out, are the least exposure intensive way to travel, mirroring the experience of wind sails on the open water for carbon emissions. A sail ship made of wood, with sails made of natural fibers – you know the old story..

    Cosmic ‘rays’ (actually very high velocity particles) are so penetrating only thick atmosphere absorbs them effectively.

    there is no planet B

    It’s amusing seeing modern civilisation pretending history started when the first electrical grid went on-line, and ignoring centuries of travelling and commerce pre-fossil fuel. Pretending non-fossil carbon equals fossil carbon by saying wood isn’t renewable, that no ‘clean energy’ exists by downplaying, altering the context or ignoring entirely these facts and ways of living.

    Every pound of fossil carbon you don’t spew, translates into a quicker recovery sans humans for other species in the future. The Earth knows how to take care of it’self, it’s ‘wiped the slate clean’ 5 times already – this is the 6’th time.

    The question is, are you willing to be disempowered by fossil fool talking points, while plunging headlong off the extinction cliff, thinking happy-happy thoughts all the way down, or provide a positive example on how to reduce your own personal fossil carbon footprint, and show some mojo and hold these fossil fools accountable, also as an example to others.

    People have a great tendency to mimic, parrot and follow others (just look right here for abundant examples), but I consider it ‘living a life of excellence’ to provide excellent examples of low fossil carbon living, and make excellent examples out of the looters & polluters.

    Because as with all things subjective, ‘excellent’ is in the eye of the beholder..

    @ Kevin re: the Apollo missions

    so the retro-reflector went right in one eye and out the other. and the moon dust? obviously I made that up too..

    “Who.. ..would know the difference?”

    *cough* someone looking through their TELESCOPE

    – you’ve gone right back to full throated moon landing denial again (after attempting to backwalk it)

    lets review:

    You first claimed we didn’t go to the moon. I said I saw with my own eye through my own telescope, the lunar lander separate from the command module in orbit around the moon, and descend, along with mentioning the retro-reflector they left there, that you can shine a laser beam at and get a detectable specular reflection from, and also mentioned I closely personally inspected the re-entry blast shield, actually sat in one of the seats, and was therefore exposed to some of the moon dust, along with all the problems they had with it..

    I posted this both here AND on the forum.

    you completely ignored it – in both places..

    then later I mentioned it again, at which point you claimed “I didn’t say we didn’t ‘ever’ go to the moon” – so you essentially backwalked your original position..

    Then you later brought the subject up once more, and again claimed we didn’t go to the moon, with a few people here ‘agreeing’ with you in a round-about way, I noticed..

    (which conveniently, they also ignored what I had stated by then, 3 times)

    Saying they didn’t [likely] exceed low-earth orbit because the Van Allen belts would result in lethal radiation exposure..

    – Which means you don’t understand the types and amounts of radiation the belts involve (it strongly depends on solar activity at the time the belts are crossed, specifically the Proton flux level, the ‘solar wind’)

    ah just saw your drought monitor post – I check that weekly and archive all the charts, have every one, since july 27’th 2012

    @ infanttyrone

    the activities we’re engaged in are (at this point) mostly over Tor and involve ‘liberating’ information, some of which ends up being aired (like Kevin I have local corruption that gets exposed, some sourced from these releases) and I also have ‘last mile’ internet security in place.

  • Tony,

    You wrote “…I doubt that he’d agree with you; that the religion of humanism underlies his scientific reasoning. That is just your opinion and I feel sure he’d say that scientific reasoning underlies his scientific reasoning.”

    The heart of humanism lies largely in the beliefs that “all problems are soluble” and that “all problems are soluble by humans”. In my exchanges with Scott, he believes these Baconian-Cartesian ideas very strongly, indeed, as well as most or all of these secondary arrogant humanistic assumptions: (1) Many problems are soluble by technology; those problems not soluble by technology, or by technology alone, have solutions in the social world. (2) When the chips are down, we will apply ourselves and work for a “solution” before it is too late. (3) Some resources are infinite; all finite or limited resources have substitutes. (4) Human civilization will survive. But you do correctly observe that this remains my opinion—opinions based on my interactions with him and reading comments and his responses to comments at Fractal Planet. Unfortunately, I cannot ask him directly for clarification because he has banned me from commenting there, precisely BECAUSE I assertively, politely, and persistently asked for clarification on these and related issues. (As you point out, he probably WOULD react, as he so often did, with great anger.)

    Your pointing out that “…he’d say that scientific reasoning underlies his scientific reasoning” very nicely emphasizes one of the most important points that I made in my earlier, longer comment that you responded to: he insists on FRAMING his naïve, linear, deterministic Baconian-Cartesian-Newtonian views on “the science” as THE science, with the radically different perspectives of the OTHER and MORE RELAVANT science related to modern physics, non-equilibrium thermodynamics, and complexity theory having no relevance to him and his thinking, and therefore not allowed in his way over-simplistic Fractal Planet world view. (See George Lakoff’s important work concerning framing.) Thanks for emphasizing this important point! Your suggesting—and Scott’s insistence—that natural scientific thinking and processes supposedly exist magically independently of the human culture and values that produced them strikes me as both incredibly naïve and extremely dangerous. We see the results of this naïve and dangerous disconnect unfolding around us as I write this and you read it.

  • C_i

    You have a mighty powerful telescope -more powerful than any other on Earth- if you directly the activity of HUMANS on the Moon between 1969 and 1972.

  • Kevin: I don’t care who said it, I think and agree with her on that particular point that political, economic, financial, and disease problems will beat NTHE from weather and we will need to deal with these.

    A few years ago I had a one on one discussion with her about using ag manure to make methane, a digester which she was working on. She quit that job soon after.

    http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/2014/10/17/well-know-by-christmas/

  • the telescope was 50X, and the command module and lunar lander appeared as tiny bright dots at the moon, one dot, as they were showing it happening live on TV which became 2 dots, and the first dot continued it’s orbital path, while the second dot moved away from it very slowly

    so as they were announcing the lunar lander has begun it’s decent on the media, (both TV and radio, and live audio feeds of the astronauts and mission control) I watched the lunar lander live through my telescope doing exactly what they were talking about, and coming inside the house to see shots of the crude video from tube cameras mounted in the command module looking at the lander moving away, then going back outside, and seeing it as a tiny dot doing exactly that – moving away. When they reached the edge of the moon, you could, for awhile, see how far above the lunar surface they were, then see them both go to the far side of the moon.

    Awhile later, they both re-appeared on the other side, and one of the dots was closer to the surface – the lunar lander was making it’s decent. Again while live on TV..

    As it got nearer to the surface, it became harder to make out, but was still barely visible as a stationary dot, slightly brighter than the lunar surface, due to the sunlight reflecting off it (white paint and shiny metal including gold foil vs grey moon rock)

    but since it wasn’t moving anymore, the focus of interest became the activity on the moon via the TV cameras (a stationary dot is pretty boring)

    with good antennas (4-bay Yagi’s with phase harness & low noise pre-amp typical) you could receive the video signal yourself and some Ham’s did, as well as the audio (VHF SSB)..

    like receiving a fringe TV station.

    but I only had a telescope, so I just watched..

    – they told people to watch, and encouraged people to buy telescopes, ran commercials about it..

  • c_i

    So you have admitted you only saw some dots. Yay! I suppose that is one small step for humanity.

    Now I would like you to prove that there were humans on board and operating the machines, the remote dots you saw.

    Clue: From the rapidity of your defence of the absurd, you obviously have not examined the more-than-three-hours of evidence presented.

    However, you have already told us you don’t read articles and are simply using this blog to spout your own version of reality.

  • Song of the Internet Eco-Warrior

    I want the name and address
    Of those who created this mess.

    Then OFF WITH THEIR HEAD
    (as the Red Queen once said)
    And that’s how the world will be blessed.

  • And who was it before the Kochs? And who was it before them? And before them, and before them………….?

    You can draw out that question as far back as you wish, and you’ll never not find names and addresses of someone to blame for the vile barbarism of the day.

    And right along with those familiar names, you’ll find far less recognizable names and addresses of a very, very small minority within an otherwise indifferent, distracted and confused populous, who sought to resist the corruptive influence and power of consolidated wealth.

    But not one of those names, nor a single act of resistance stemmed the ecocidal pulse of our ever growing population. Even the greatest among us, have only been tears in the rain.

    All our protest songs were never really anything much beyond church hymns anyways. We just redirected our hardwiring for myth from divine intervention to the spirit of human agency.

    Our working class heroes have just been honorable preachers spreading the good word among the true believers, which I’ve been for most of my life. Mine was the ‘The Monkey Wrench Gang’, which might as well have been the Little Red Book. We self-stylized Liberals tend to quote vanguards with all the fervor of bible thumpers quoting scripture. Just articles of faith anyway you slice it.

    Call it a moral imperative, call it a movement, a revolution, call it civil rights, call it deep green resistance, call it the New Left, call it social justice, call it Earth First! Call it whatever the next and latest generation has renamed what came before: resistance momentarily turning subjugation into persecution through the endless paying of Peter to murder Paul, while the TPTB profiteer surrounded by their heavily armed Peters.

    Only the names and addresses have changed, while the grand ol’ narrative remains the same up to this very day. We might as well be telling ghost stories.

    And we the dutiful secular choir have been on our knees praying to the hope of human agency since the enlightenment. Praying for a day that could never come, because the vast majority of humanity has never given a shit beyond their myopic immediate needs, if they weren’t greedily lining up to become Peters themselves. Oh, I know what’s it like to blame.

    Again, NTE represents the end of every story ever told, which includes the entire history of every form of resistance. The entire history of leftist studies will soon be nothing more than a pile of forgotten books, barely read to begin with.

    So of course, those whose identity are still vested in the idea that they’re individual actions have significance outside of their own blind faith, must believe they know what’s up. They have to either be driven by blind hope, anger or a sense of imaginary duty to sustain their faith, but it doesn’t really matter which it is, because they’re all capable of sustaining the denial of the mass incuriousness.

    There has never not been a greater order of magnitude waiting in the wings to completely erase all our efforts. NTE is both a reality and a concept. It is a very cold dark place regardless. It can only be internalized by those who no longer need to be kept warm by any notion.

    So of course those who require the illusion of there being a “we”, are going to have a difficult time letting go of past behavior, for more or less the same reason the absurdity of Catholicism still exists.

    The staggering stupidity of the masses has always been activism blind-spot.

    So, while even some here might admit there is little to be done now, it doesn’t remove the fact that there are clearly those still in power who are deserving of blame, scorn, derision, contempt, hatred and disgust. The world is awash in horribly despicable people. Most of them men. The world has never not been awash in horribly despicable people, and in all likelihood, the last remnants of humanity will be “the worst among us”.

    And since there is very little left to hold onto, we cling to blame as if it were a lifejacket. We keep it close to our hearts, sometimes it feels as if it is our heart. The bitter resentment of those who have power over us, is a equally powerful feeling to let go of while still being surrounded on all sides.

    Blaming others simply makes us feel better. It’s empowering. It keeps us warm at night. Blaming otherness allows us to imagine we’ve set ourselves apart from whatever the other might be, and affords the belief that we are ultimately better than they. It doesn’t matter if ‘better’ means, we’re kinder, gentler, simpler, wiser, poorer, smarter, more generous or less consumptive, blaming allows us to detach and rise above the act of being fucked.

    Activism is just a secular form of religion, and more or less serves the same purpose; it makes us feel better. Just another invented cultural story with no more basis in reality than a self-fulfilling false prophecy.

  • URGENT MESSAGE FOR ROBIN WESTENRA

    Robin, you probably need to need open another email account. Information and comment are not reaching you:

    ‘Your message cannot be delivered to the following recipients:

    Recipient address: westenra@clear.net.nz
    Reason: Over quota’

  • Bud, I feel sure that Scott doesn’t believe those points you labelled him with but he does hope that humans can figure out a way to deal with the problems (I also feel sure he sees them as problems not predicaments, as I do), as he mentioned in a recent comment. I also believe that he asked you to explain how the fields that you kept mentioning do a better job of informing our situation but you pulled out, claiming that you don’t know much about the fields that you claim are needed to understand our predicament (or needed to help us understand that we can never understand our predicament).

    I don’t see the point of raising this all again.

    Kevin, you’ve got to be kidding, re the moon landings. I didn’t expect to read someone dragging that conspiracy theory up here.

    Crazy_inventor, that’s a great rebuttal. I’ve seen plenty of great rebuttals of all of the points raised by the moon landing hoax crowd (Bad Astronomy had some good ones). They all get ignored and the story keeps coming up. It a bit like the arguments of the AGW deniers which get rebutted but still get re-stated as though they are new revelations.

  • “And who was it before the Kochs? And who was it before them? And before them, and before them………….?”

    The querent is the querying and the query, the respondent, the responding and the response – in the same manner as in a dream. This one’s on a bigger scale, and in it the Dreamer assumes the role not of one of the characters, but of each and every character: everyone of them is a dreamer.

    “Again, NTE represents the end of every story ever told,”

    The beginning of every story represents the end of that story. Every beginning has an ending.

    “NTE is both a reality and a concept. It is a very cold dark place regardless.”

    All times and places are pitch-dark absent conscious awareness. Absent objects for awareness, consciousness is Void, but “a Void that is not Empty”, for “Form is Emptiness and Emptiness is Form”.

    ”So, while even some here might admit there is little to be done now”

    There was never anything to be done: “Before enlightenment chop wood and carry water; after enlightenment, chop wood and carry water.” Nothing to be done in either case.

    “The world is awash in horribly despicable people.”

    All are none other than oneSelf, one’s own creation, like the monsters in one’s dream.

    “And since there is very little left to hold onto”

    There is absolutely nothing to hold onto: that which persists beyond this bourne of time and place can neither be held nor needs holding.

    “The bitter resentment of those who have power over us,”

    One may prefer to blame our branch of the eukaryotes (cells with nuclei) for not acquiring chloroplasts (originally separate cells, now photosynthetic organelles in plants). Otherwise we could thrive with just sunshine, soil, air and moisture. Or we could blame our amphibian ancestors for giving up swimming and aqueous respiration: otherwise we would still have gills and we could go diving today without scuba gear. We are completely slaves to nature, for every breath we take, for not floating off into space sans gravity, for all our immensely complex biochemical machinery functioning properly in accordance with physics & chemistry in spite of none of our cells having studied either subject (but having inherited that information, unbeknownst to us, from over billions of years ago). Those powers are quite formidable.

    “Reason: Over quota”

    He did have a transient ischaemic attack or two not too long ago. A stroke is also a possibility now. (As a retired ED doc, I continue to consider the worst possibilities first.)

  • @ Daniel
    “And who was it before the Kochs? ”

    well don’t forget the ‘masters of the universe’ 😉

    “who was it” falls entirely within timeframe of fossil fuels and even more importantly, the hundreds of millions being spent on PROPAGANDA to KEEP burning fossil fuels.

    So, again, with that in mind, I present this:

    Clean Energy Under Siege

    The oil industry has spent millions working to discredit renewable energy.

    “The fossil fuel industry is not only waging an attack on renewable energy in the political sphere through immense financial contributions to elected officials, but they are also funding a “concerted, covert misinformation campaign.” Through faux “think tanks,” phony intellectuals, and industry-backed front groups masquerading as “concerned citizens,” the industry is seeking to shift public opinion and discredit renewable energy.”

    Fossil fuel interests are working through the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) to repeal state clean energy mandates, called Renewable Portfolio Standards.

    New Report Follows Money Trail Behind Attacks on Clean Energy

    http://www.sierraclub.org/pressroom/downloads/SierraClub-CleanEnergyUnderSiege.pdf

    “Over the past decade, renewable energy’s strong growth and success has made it a target for unprecedented new attacks from oil, coal, and gas interests.

    Iowa and South Dakota generate 20 percent of their electricity from wind power

    In their book, Merchants of Doubt, Naomi Oreskes and Erik Conway describe a methodology that has grown alongside controversial public policy issues designed to influence public opinion and policymakers in favor of a certain conclusion.

    The method they describe in detail was largely funded by corporate interests and right-wing think tanks with financial ties to the issues in question.

    Growing from its infancy amid the 1950s and ‘60s cigarette debates, through the legislative process on acid rain resulting in the 1990 Clean Air Act amendments, the international agreement on stratospheric ozone depletion in the Montreal Protocol, and reaching new heights during the consideration of global warming legislation, the “Merchants of Doubt” strategy sought to achieve its goals by undermining the credibility of traditional scientific research, substituting its own scientific conclusions — valid or not — and aggressively discrediting government action in almost all of its forms.

    Further, it often articulated its arguments through entities that disguised the true nature of who was making the argument and why .

    It is a testament to the growth and development of both energy efficiency and renewable-energy industries that the riflescope of the “Merchants of Doubt” strategy is now focused on clean energy.

    The attacks on clean energy have come in a variety of venues.

    Some House Republicans took a poor decision to grant a single loan guarantee to Solyndra and used it to indict clean energy broadly as a reckless investment.

    Conservative groups like Americans for Prosperity have tried to rally Tea Party activists against wind power and energy efficiency.

    Corporate advocacy groups such as the American Legislative Exchange Council have targeted state renewable-electricity standards for repeal.

    Many of these entities are attacking incentives such as the highly successful renewable-energy Production Tax Credit for wind energy as an unwarranted government subsidy at the same time as they defend giveaways for oil and gas, stay silent about them, or support deceptive bills that purport to end all energy subsidies but fail to attack entrenched benefits for fossil fuels and nuclear power.

    Are these connected?

    By following the money trail and the energy interests behind it, we have to conclude that the answer is yes.”

    And now following the talking points:

    (the Brookings Institution is the source (so lets check them out first), which also starts out by saying “less Americans are concerned about global warming than 5 years ago”)

    The Brookings Institution, whose predecessor was founded in 1918 by Robert Brookings, was probably the first think tank in the USA.

    Enjoying close ties with Rockerfeller and Carnegie, Brookings played an important role in the emergence of the political-lobbyist strand of philanthropy which funds much of the right-wing think-thank ecosystem today.”

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Brookings_Institution

    Funding:

    Exxon Mobil Corporation
    Chevron Corporation
    Shell Oil Company
    BP America Inc.
    ConocoPhillips
    Marathon Oil Company Foundation
    Honda North America, Inc.
    Ford Motor Company Fund
    GE Foundation

    and now the Brookings Institution sourced talking points:

    “some green initiatives have turned out to be more damaging to the environment than the status quo. For example, ethanol is seen as a renewable fuel; and thus, those involved in its manufacture have green jobs. But refining ethanol can actually emit more greenhouse gases than gasoline.”

    catch the slight-of-hand in that talking point? “emit more greenhouse gases than gasoline” – we’re looking at all FOSSIL CARBON with gasoline, and the talking point also ignores the purpose behind adding ethanol to motor fuel – for them to run cleaner and generate less pollution including nitrous oxide, an extremely potent greenhouse gas, and that the alternative additives are all much more expensive and toxic.

    Brookings found “the vast majority of clean economy jobs produce goods or services that protect the environment or reduce pollution in ways that have little to do with [renewable] energy or energy efficiency.”

    As a result, jobs in low-carbon industries, like nuclear power or clean coal are considered “clean”

    ..and notice the slight-of-hands here: trying to dilute & poison what “clean” means, while also re-framing nuclear & coal “clean” by calling them “low-carbon” while again failing to acknowledge it’s FOSSIL carbon that matters.

    the rest of the report rales about jobs but this came up:

    “using green power may displace the use of coal, oil, and other “dirty” fuels, green jobs will also displace those currently working in the fossil fuel industry.”

    see what did I tell you – first the think tanks say there isn’t really any ‘clean’ energy, then turn around and say dirty energy isn’t really dirty!

    “..job losses resulting from the crowding out of less expensive, conventional forms of energy, i.e., replacing a coal plant with a wind farm.”

    Wind power the cheapest source of energy.

    motherboard.vice.com/read/wind-power-is-actually-cheaper-than-coal-says-leaked-government-report

    “for every megawatt hour (MW/h) of electricity generated, onshore wind costs roughly $130 USD per MW/h, compared to gas and coal which can cost up to around $208 and $295 per MW/h, respectively.”

    (and this takes into account mining, pollution, and the additional adverse health impacts of coal and gas)

    ABOUT THE AUTHORS

    Nick Sibilla is a research associate at Cascade. He received his bachelor’s degree in Political Science and Religious Studies from the University of Pittsburgh. Todd Wynn is Vice President at Cascade Policy Institute. Formerly climate change and energy policy analyst at Cascade, Mr. Wynn received his bachelor’s degree in Business Economics from California State University Long Beach and his master’s in International and Developmental Economics from the University of San Francisco.

    The staffer behind ALEC’s energy task force is Todd Wynn . Wynn’s resume is a journeyman’s travelogue through the world of ultra-conservative advocacy .
    Wynn’s opposition to wind energy is well documented from his time with the Cascade Policy Institute. Cascade is another example of the “free-market” libertarian groups (much like ALEC) that have popped up across the country . While with Cascade, Wynn wrote reports with titles like, “The Dirty Secret Behind Clean Jobs”

    ALEC’s Energy, Environment and Agriculture Task Force features national and international powerhouses like Exxon Mobil, Koch Industries, Peabody Energy, and the American Petroleum Institute.

    NOT IN MY — OR ANYONE ELSE’S — BACKYARD
    There is no energy source that can be implemented on a large scale completely free of any environmental impact.

    The Sierra Club is fully acquainted with the trade-offs between sources — whether they be water quality, carbon emissions warming the climate, the management of dangerous nuclear waste, or the effect of poorly-sited renewable-energy facilities on avian populations or desert ecosystems.

    Similarly, the Sierra Club would always try to distinguish between legitimate conservation and economic concerns about a specific project or site and an across-the-board opposition to wind power.

    That separates the conscientious activist from the individual who functions as a paid hatchet man whose intent is to damage renewable energy without regard for its documented economic and environmental benefits

    “wind warriors”

    The “Merchants of Doubt” strategy keys on the nearly constant generation of misinformation in order to change the terms of the debate.

    [Using tactics such as] constantly pushing out tired and inaccurate lines about clean energy being too expensive, unworkable because of intermittency, and the like.

    actively working to slow or stop the adoption of renewable energy and efficiency.

    spinmeisters who attempt to embed anti-renewable stereotypes in the public mind , and misinformation targeting renewable-energy.

    The “Merchants of Doubt” strategy lost — on tobacco, on acid rain, on ozone depletion — and it will ultimately lose on energy that enables us to live modern lives, but which does not carry the destructive costs with which coal and oil use have saddled our planet.”

    “22 % of the world’s power now comes from renewable sources”

    ————————————————————————

    So, as you can see, it’s not “who was it”, it’s who is it.

  • “How many white people have died from Ebola?”

    Not nearly enough.

  • @Daniel

    I’m not sure if Robin Datta’s response to your post is his actual experience -but I get what he is alluding to. Personally I never gleaned anything authentic from Buddhist or vedic scripture- beautiful and true as it is it has become apparent to me that these descriptions of ‘reality’ haven’t really helped us- just turn on the news! I have found that these insights (which I no longer find any great value in) arise naturally when one makes the actual effort to look for oneself at your actual nature-simply put- to try and get a direct taste of the feeling of ‘you’ prior to thoughts, sensation, feelings-the body even. It’s not actually that hard to do-and one glimpse is all that is required to set in motion a process which over time eradicates all existential fearfulness , the sense of being in danger and the sense that life is s problem. The outcome is NOT a return to or a dwelling in your nature but the end of all separation between you and your life and the emergence of a capacity to engage life in a self reliant way. Nothing changes except the relationship to life- a sense of deep wonder and deep gratitude. Another outcome is the recognition that we are all in this together and that every single person is doing the very best they can given the fact that they are afflicted with this hidden context of fear. The only thing to say is try it and see for yourself if it’s not the case? Hope that helps.

  • The do-nothings®™ squawk the most because they have the most to lose should things go south in a hurry. Heaven forbid NTHE puts a crimp in their flawed consumer behavior patterns and extravagant lifestyles.

    Apparently the words “Damned if you do, damned if don’t. Then do.” are lost on them.

    So when the electrical power is out for months with no hope of restoration, the Costco and grocery store shelves have been stripped clean of anything useful or nutritious, and the woefully unprepared find themselves out in the countryside looking for food, water and shelter please be sure to properly display your firearms so there is no mistaking your intent eh?

  • Tom

    ‘Kevin, you’ve got to be kidding, re the moon landings. I didn’t expect to read someone dragging that conspiracy theory up here.’

    As a scientist who looks for evidence, examines the evidence, and tests the evidence against basic physical/chemical facts, I can tell you I am not kidding at all. There is NO evidence that humans went to the Moon, as portrayed by NASA, but there is huge amount of fabricated ‘evidence’, generated to support ad phony narrative. Your reference to conspiracy theory is entirely inappropriate. If you have not watched the video, I suggest you do. It confirms all the suspicions we have held for a long time, and provides many more examples of physical impossibilities associated with the so-called photos and videos of human activity on the Moon.

    For a long time I have been highly suspicious of the footage of people waling and jumping on the Moon because the Moon is so small and has such weak gravity, about 1/6th of that on Earth (hence no atmosphere). I can jump vertically 40 or 50 cm here on Earth. The same exertion on the Moon would result in a vertical jump of 2 to 3 metres, and normal walking on the Moon would result in paces of around 6 metres compared to a normal Earth pace of around 1 metre. Have look at the footage and decide for yourself.

    Now it is possible for a human to deliberately fake muscle movements, of course, but it is not possible for dust to fake its movement. And when we look closely at the footage of the ‘Moonrover’ we see that the dust does not behave as expected on the Moon., but does behave as it would on Earth, i.e. meeting air resistance and falling quickly ground.

    I have been aware of a multitude of discrepancies and inconsistencies for quite a while, and the list just gets longer and longer (just like 9/11). For instance, something I was not aware of until recently but is obvious when one’s attention is drawn to it is that the reflected images of the Sun on the astronauts’ visors are way too big. Convex surfaces cause images to diminish compared actual object, and there are genuine images of reflections of the Sun taken during ‘space walks’ (which were actually low Earth-orbit ‘walks’). The images provided by NASA as ‘evidence’ for the Moon landings have reflected images of the Sun which are an order of magnitude too big -in other words are reflections of large light sources in a studio set.

    If the USA did indeed put humans on the Moon and bring them safely back using relatively primitive technology, why did it drop the whole lunar program like a hot potato and never, in a period of 30 years, build on the ‘success’?

    The reason I persist with this, rather than dropping it, is because it is yet another example of how much we have been lied to by ‘The Empire of Lies’.

    We now know that the official narrative of 9/11 was a pack of lies geared to manipulating the general public, that the power-so-cheap-we-won’t-bother-to-metre-it nuclear industry is founded and maintained on a pack of lies, that Ponzi economics is founded and maintained on a pack of lies, that GDP is a pack of lies, and that we are drowning in an ocean of lies promulgated by TPTB.

    The Moon ‘landings’ are just another example of the ‘we are the greatest’, ‘nobody compares with us’, ‘nobody can compete with us’ bullshit that is deeply ingrained into American culture, which is probably why Americans find accepting the truth so difficult to accept.

    The truth is, at the end of the Second World War the USA had all its infrastructure intact, and had much of the world in debt to it. Most other industrialised nations were devastated and were up to their eyeball in debt. The Russians made stupendous progress scientific and social progress in the period 1945 to 1955, and the Americans started ramping up the consumer economy.

    Unmanned probes in space; yes.

    Humans in space; no.

    Sorry folks, the Star Trek narrative, and all its successors, is just science fiction.

  • I’m not convinced either.

    Human space-travel is reputedly very bad for your health. Anyone credulous enough to swallow Apollo is invited to speculate on the reason for forty-two years (and counting) having elapsed since anyone allegedly set foot on the moon? That’s an extraordinary hiatus, considering the technical ‘progress’ (if you believe the hype) this civilisation has been busying itself with on other fronts during that time..

    But then if it was faked before, why has it not been faked since?

  • @ Kevin
    see what I mean

    that was TONY who said that, not Tom

    I see you ignored the live signal issue, the steadily decreasing signal strength, the steadily INcreasing delay, polarization twisting, and phase jitter, the directional beams pointed right at the moon, the lack of any other signals, antennas or equipment to return a signal that would have to be faked on earth to be shown live simultaneously, with no delay – the TV & radio stations around Houston mission control all broadcasted the video directly from a STL feed with no delay at all, while the rest of the broadcast chain only had at the most, 1/2 second delay, which you could hear in some cases (I could) by listening to network TV audio and radio at the same time. While lunar delay was over a second but not the nearly 3 seconds it would have taken to have faked it…

    these factors prove the video and telemetry feeds originated on the lunar surface, and then look at what they showed – the Astronauts doing exactly what they were trained for. (they spent a lot of time picking out a touchdown location, because they were afraid the landing pads would sink down in the dust – didn’t know how solid it was or how thick. The same anxiety about first stepping on the surface, would their boot sink down, would there be footing, would they fall down and embarrass themselves and the entire space program..

    they trained in zero-G and reduced-G jet flights to try to ensure this wouldn’t happen. they left the dust’s characteristics to chance, which did provide footing but also got all over everything. (the dust layer is only an inch or so thick with solid rock underneath)

    – for you to actually know how moon dust behaves, you have to have a sample of the dust or at least do a thorough analysis and approximate it (powdered lime) then set up a reduced gravity, vacuum chamber and provide a way to ‘stir it up’ and watch how it behaves.

    and since you haven’t done this, you’re just relying on anonymous chatter of other people who also didn’t do this.

    pure conjecture..

    I’m an expert in radio – I design, build and deploy both transmitters and receivers and antennas.

    – this is something, ‘Mr. scientist’, where your knowledge is clearly lacking. and the signal metrics prove the video originated from the lunar surface, while the video content proves they did exactly what the whole world watched them doing.

    @ 18000days

    because the radiation outside the earth’s magnetic field is deadly for any length of time – Kevin’s (partially) right about that at least.

  • I stand corrected and apologise to Tom. Slowly losing the battle against using glasses and attempting to maintain eye muscle strength does lead to errors, especially very early in the morning when I’m only half-awake. I’ve given in and have put the glasses on. Fitting in comments between working long hours on important project doesn’t help.

    However, as previously discussed, you clearly do not understand the important issues (or ignore them because to address them would demolish your absurd narrative) and clearly have not looked at the evidence.

    For instance, you refer to the reflectance disc, yet scientists working in the field of reflectance of electromagnetic radiation have pointed out no reflectance disc is required to reflect radiation off the Moon. And if one were put there, who is to say it was put there by a human and not by a machine?

    NASA had complete control of the production of images and broadcasts, and presented exactly what they wanted presented most of the time. But in practice there were many foul-ups.

    Your supposed expert knowledge or radio communication leads you into extraordinary hubris and is a superb demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger effect. And like many people who have been fooled for a lo9ng time, you find it difficult to admit you’ve been fooled. All you need to do is examine the evidence. But that is obviously too hard for you.

    So, since you refuse to look at evidence and simply keep trolling, I will not bother to respond to any more of your nonsense.

  • All perceptions are created equal, but some perceive more discerningly than others.

    It all boils down to that most abstract, abstruse, heinous and obtuse of human attributes, otherwise known as belief! Alas, the only way I see that vacuousness ending is with the demise of the species as whole. For those seeking further elucidation I wholeheartedly recommend watching “The Croods.” Or, for the truly ambitious, attentively read a LOT of Feynman!

    My own suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose.” – J.B.S. Haldane

  • The moon thread has taken on a life of its own, but it relates to NTE in two ways.

    The first, as Kevin has pointed out, is the realization of “wow, if they can fake this, they can fake anything”. Though I would have thought that the invasion of Iraq and the 2008 financial collapse and bailouts would have been sufficient to make people more skeptical of mainstream media and government narratives.

    The second is due to the positive case for no moon landings at all is tied mainly to the idea that there is no way to get humans safely through the Van Allen belts, though there are some other things that make humans operating in deep space problematic. If there was no way to get people safely through the Van Allen belts, using 1969 era technology, the moon landings could not have happen. Looking at it the other way, this being impossible would be a reason to fake the landings instead of just sending people to the moon in the first place.

    One of the few ways to get around the resource ceiling the world population has hit would be to go into space in a big way, to obtain metals from asteroids and moons that are in short supply on Earth, and ultimately to terraform Mars. Eliminate the possibility of deep space travel by humans and it means we are stuck on this planet. If we trash it, the human race dies. Toynbee pointed this out in 1973 and its straightforward, but the idea that if we ruin this planet we can always go elsewhere may be in the back of some people’s minds.

    With the moon landings, the tin foilers tend to concentrate on demonstrating the the photos and videos were studio shot, in all likelihood they were taken from the photos and videos taken of the training for the moon landings in simulators, and they have demonstrated to my satisfaction that they were not taken on the moon. However, it is worth pointing out that this does not disprove that men walked on the moon! NASA could have successfully sent astronauts to walk on and orbit the moon, and brought them back, and have no photographic record of the event. They would do this if the problems with exposure, the various space debris, and the radiation from the Van Allen belts and elsewhere destroyed the film from the first missions, and then they would have substituted the photos and videos taken in the simulators. Lack of photos in itself just means that film can not survive a trip to the moon, not that humans can’t.

    However, there are four pieces of evidence that men walked on the moon: the photos, the moon rocks, things like pictures of dots on the moon taken by orbiters that are claimed to be the equipment left behind, and the eye witness accounts of two dozen or so astronauts. It is to fake the rocks (alot of rocks on Earth originally comes from outer space), pictures of dots are not exactly conclusive, and it does appear that the photographic evidence was faked, so we are left with the eyewitness accounts of the astronauts. Set against this is evidence that it may not be physically possible to put humans on the moon with current technology.

    Essentially the strength of the evidence that Armstrong and Aldrin walked on the moon is roughly equivalent to the evidence that Peary and his expedition was the first to get to the North Pole, or that Mallory and Irvine got to the summit of Everest. However, we know that it is and was physically possible for people to go to the North Pole or the summit of Everest, and this is uncertain in the case of the Moon.

  • @ Kevin

    no NASA did not, the signals (video, audio and telemetry) were all analog, in-the-clear, on VHF & UHF (they didn’t have powerful enough reliable microwave transistors at the time, and travelling wave tubes were too big & power hungry. the bands were chosen as a compromise between reliable RF power transistors and antenna size)

    with what’s now called ‘moon bounce’ equipment, you could receive all three signals yourself, and hundreds of Hams did. (Hams were also helping guard against interference by ‘patrolling’ the channels and tracking down offenders, to keep all the allocated channels clear)

    the path loss for moon bounce is extremely high ~ -147.dB so you need phased beam arrays, (or a really large dish) fed by a few thousand Watts, and very sensitive receivers (typically a LNA frontend) to get an echo back which is quite faint – not enough bandwidth for wideband (full framerate) video, only barely enough for narrow band audio (very noisy) and delayed by nearly 3 seconds. often circular polarization is used because the polarization twisting becomes quite severe, to the point where telemetry datastreams are corrupted, voice becomes garbled and video unstable (can’t hold a lock on the picture). sounds similar to rapid shortwave radio fluttering and fading. this is why helical radiators or cross-polarized phased linear elements are used..

    FM broadcasting uses circular polarization too, because it reduces ‘picket fencing’ during mobile reception, and improves penetration into buildings. I can’t afford circularly polarized antennas or the extra power needed. they cause a 3.dB penality when the receiving antenna is not circularly polarized, (and no one has circularly polarized receiving antennas for broadcast radio reception) but broadcasters raise their transmitter power by 3.dB to make up for it – I don’t have that luxury either – I’m already running at the maximium power my finals can produce)

    – the retro-reflector is for light only, and you need a high power laser (tens of Watts or more), while the beamwidth is a mile across by the time it gets there,(even for the highest quality lasers) and you only get a photon or 2 back. (depending on how clear the sky is) Without the reflector (or if you miss-aim) you get nothing back at all

    ..and you need a telescope feeding a photomultiplier tube to detect the return flash.

    so now you’ve resorted to fluster, bluster, projection and stonewalling 😉

    @ Ed

    I’ve already explained about the Van Allen belts, the radiation level is only dangerous in the time it takes to cross them during periods of high solar activity.

    otherwise you just don’t want to hang out in them, but instead spend as little time as practical in them

    sufficient shielding protects you from that kind of radiation, (basicly Beta particles and some X-ray) it’s outside the belts where most of the radiation you can’t shield from is, which includes the lunar surface and mars

    any colonies would have to be deep below the surface and it’s not practicable to excavate on such a large scale, not to mention the tremendous amount of fuel it takes to achieve escape velocity

    we have no practicable way of lifting large amounts of building materials into orbit

    – I consider this entire issue a meaningless distraction especially when no one here has any direct experience in it

    none of you even went to NASA, much less during the Bi-centennial open house, and the source of this distraction is dead set on entertaining his un-named, un-cited ‘sources’ to the complete exclusion of any testimony of me or anyone else with direct first-hand experience in the matter.

    and immune to the logic and facts I’ve outlined as much as I’m going to, above. We’ve all seen this kind of mentality before – classic climate denialist, which also takes the form of tobacco, asbestos, PCB’s, dioxins, heavy metals, CFC’s, GMO’s, etc etc

    you can find people who employ exactly the same strategy with all these issues – they latch on to beliefs that comfort them, and simply deny and ignore any and all data, measurements, samples, signals, laws, logic and first-hand accounts which don’t fit their pre-conceived conclusions. They apply a thin layer of scientific tinted varnish and call it a day.

    You can search for and find Ham’s discussing what I said about the signals, but what difference does it make – you won’t believe them either..

  • that links back to a free anglefire page (all of this are the efforts of one person – a zealot)

    http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/xpascal/

    there’s an entry:

    “moon2/xpascal/MoonHoax/TransmissionDelay/TransmissionDelay.HTM”

    where he finds a few insistences, during the timespan of nearly 120 hours, IN A RECORDING, where the astronauts spoke ‘on top’ of the comments from mission control (where they didn’t wait for the entire message before speaking themselves – which is common in single duplex chit-chat)

    and just this is taken as proof it’s fake..

    unfortunately he had nothing to say about the thousands of Hams listening directly to both mission control and the astronauts – and all the points I raised above about the signal metrics, neither did he address the issue of world-wide broadcast starting with no delay in the Houston area vs the always there delay from the lunar surface. He’s relying entirely on second-hand sources and reaching illogical conclusions to support his pre-conceived convictions.

    this is anti-science

    real science accepts all data, whether is supports a particular conclusion or not

    but this guy has already firmly made up his mind, then spent huge amounts of time looking for evidence which only supports that conclusion, while ignoring or excluding any and all evidence that doesn’t.

    a classic crank

    (he also does the same thing with JFK and the cuban missiles crisis – completely ignoring the pentagon papers and goes on & on about communism “No doubt that Kennedy was obeying an order from his new masters, the russians.”

    he also called the Russian spaceflights fake..

    “south vietnam fell to communism despite all american efforts”

    “the efforts of the south Vietnamese to resist against the communist invaders”

    “He doomed Vietnam to become entirely communist and caused the death of many young americans”

    (no concern at all about the millions of people we killed in the region, including carpet bombing Cambodia – completely brainwashed by american propaganda and american exceptionalism)

    “Once more Kennedy obeyed the orders of his russian masters.”

    – spends a lot of time demonizing Kennedy, claims he killed Marilyn Monroe.

    [killing]Kennedy was a matter of state; it was about eliminating a president who had become a traitor to his country, an open threat to US security, who was making the US a valet of Russia.”

    yes that’s right – this crank supports the assassination of Kennedy!

    his ‘hero’ is Nixon..

    Nixon was innocent, Nixon was framed.

    “The CIA set up the affair of the Watergate and involved Nixon in it, who was totally unaware of what was being plotted behind his back.”

    “So, in conclusion, Nixon was certainly very naive, and easily manipulable, but he was not fundamentally evil, he was well intended.”

    then he lionises BUSH !

    Bush’s fake WMD in Iraq:

    “Bush was certainly not aware of this trickery, and honestly believed these massive destruction weapons really existed.”

    “But Kennedy was really different. He was fundamentally evil”

    moon2/xpascal/MoonHoax/JFK/JFK.HTM

    jeeze Kevin 😉

  • holy fuck, i have to defend crazy inventor!
    If the moon landing were fake, the Russians woulda told us.
    In 1967, the Toronto Maple Leafs won the Stanley Cup, i was there.
    So i don’t blame the youngins thinkin it wasa fake.

    As for Naomi Klein, a naive union activist, who believes uprisings and green energy will save us. she ingores the fact we are at peak minerals and are mining ore grades at o.2%. the largest iron ore mine in the world is in Brazil, where they burn trees to run operations. Naomi always has her eyes on growing green erections and building climaxing momentum. She has a rich life.

    Alex Smith at EcoShlock is a nice guy who can’t make the leap into extinction because of his grandkids, for which I do not blame him. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch.

    Guy McPherson is an ego-maniac who has a wealth of cherries to pick from. But who gives a crap if human extinction happens or not? Who cares if the clathrate dick has big balls or not? The embarrassing wealth of mass extinction data looms large over the vortex of humanity.

    We destroyed 50% of animals in the last 50 years.
    We will kill 50% of animals in the next 50 years.
    I’m not good at math, but to me that’s 75%, the very definition of mass extinction.
    Annalee Newitz thinks we’ll be “living in self-healing cities” by then.
    Good luck with that!
    Catastrophic cascading ecological collapse is not nihilism.
    It is the final word. Extinction is forever.

    We don’t have to worry about sea or temperature rise, or clathrate dick measuring because the collapse of human civilization will come well before that.

  • That the NASA photos allegedly taken on the moon are clearly studio-staged re-enactments (or prior training simulations) does NOT prove that the Apollo Project did not take men to the moon.

    More likely, the photos that would have been obtained on the moon, with camera fixed to astronauts chest, with no view finder, with pressured gloves that could not operate control knobs on the camera, would have been of such poor quality that publishing them would have been the kiss-of-death for the manned space program.

    These photos (if actually taken on the moon) would had extreme contrast problems (areas of total overexposure and total underexposure), focus problems, cropping problems, that combined would have made the manned effort look way less than useless.

    Also, continuing the gravy-train to NASA contractors would have been a prime consideration, regardless of the futility of the program (this has been made into a movie called Capricorn One.).

  • There is a great effort to plant genetically modified trees designed to grow faster, stronger and even smarter than ordinary trees. We can do it, we have the technology. The main candidates are Eucalyptus and Palm Oil trees. These two trees are the poster children for “green” energy as places like Indonesia replace natural flora with monocultures of these monsters.

    There is a movement in science about the study of plant “intelligence”. These people are extra cautious about their work as they try to overcome the embarrassment of the old junk science book called “The Secret Life of Plants”.
    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=plant+intelligence

    Now imagine, long after planetary fauna extinction, the only legacy humanity leaves behind are genetically modified trees. Now, imagine these trees gain sentient by developing their communication networks to higher levels.

    These trees will endlessly talk about lower levels of life, such as grass, which apparently retain a horrific memory of a cereal killer known as “cows”.
    The moral of the story is that diamonds are for heifers, but extinction is forever.
    http://damnthematrix.wordpress.com/2014/10/13/the-false-solutions-of-green-energy/#comment-17383
    http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/123254/Long%20Term%20Shares/PIELC%20Talk.pdf
    http://damnthematrix.wordpress.com/tag/deep-green-resistance/

  • ‘holy fuck, i have to defend crazy inventor!
    If the moon landing were fake, the Russians woulda told us.’

    Robert, I suggest you dig a lot deeper.

    The Russians were also faking stuff and covering up errors and failures. Yuri Gagarin was almost certainly not the first man to orbit the Earth. He may have been the first one to come back alive. According to the source in the first video posted recently there were at least 7 failed attempts to put a man into orbit and bring him back safely: the world was not told: ‘We failed once again in our attempt to put a man into orbit and he got also fried.’ military-industrial complexes celebrate successes, not failures. And when they don’t have successes they invent them. The Russians certainly faked many of the scenes presented as evidence of the Gagarin mission.

    There was a mutual game of ‘we won’t tell if you don’t tell’ being played all through the 1950s, 60s and 70s (and beyond), similar to the ‘we won’t bomb the shit out of you if you don’t bomb the shit out of us’ game. Although the Russians had far superior technology to that of the Americans they did not attempt put humans beyond low Earth orbit EVER. They knew to do so would be a futile waste of resources, and people in the know regarded the ‘man on the Moon’ as a joke.

    Indeed, if you go far enough up the American chain of command the truth is known, and the people at the top laugh at the continuing gullibility of the proles, just as they laugh at the gullibility of the proles in connection with 9/11. Al Qaida, jet fuel, collapse at free-fall speed within buildings’ footprint, aircraft engines ‘evaporating’ on impact with grass, war on terror…..

    How about shipping Jews who independently made it to Israel back to Germany and putting them back into concentration camps? How about rounding up German soldiers, some of them old men and children, towards the end of the war and deliberately starving and dehydrating them to death in open-air concentration camps and threatening to shoot on sight any German civilians who attempted to assist the inmates? How about firebombing Dresden and then sending in a second wave of bombers to kill all the rescue workers? How about sending in fighters a day or two after the bombing of Dresden to strafe civilians as they attempted to leave the ruined city? How about attempting the defoliate nearly an entire country using chemical poisons, firebombing peasants and dropping cluster bombs on villages? How about destabilising democratic nations and installing vicious dictators who went on to terrorise the populaces?

    The industrial-military-financial complex has done it all, and more, and lied to the masses about all of it.

    The Internet provides an unparalleled opportunity, which the vast majority of people do not take advantage of, to become informed about a multitude of matters.

  • Upon hearing that the titanic was indeed sinking and passengers needed to put on their life jackets, many balked at the notion, and some even took it upon themselves to play a game of soccer with pieces of the iceberg that had fractured from the collision onto the upper deck.

    Hmmm….I wonder how hard we would have look to find equivalent, frivolous and inane behavior in light of NTE here at NBL?

    I don’t know, debating “the moon landing” might be a good place to start, but maybe we should wait for them to start arguing over whether or not pigs will need goggles for when they learn how to fly, before we jump to any conclusions.

    As far as I’m aware, there is no other space on the web dedicated to discussing NTE. And over the last two years, lord knows this space has seen its share of distracters, fools and hyper obsessive behavior clearly take advantage of Guys values and reluctance to censor the endless stream of predictable and selfish contrarian opinion, which was surely going to occur from such an emotionally challenging concept as all of life most likely being extinct in one generation.

    So, for anyone who is coming to this space for the first time because they are interested/concerned/distressed/saddened in tackling THE ONLY subject in which Guy is putting a hell of lot of effort in attempting to communicate, and because this is the only space they can do so, what are they going to find? That’s right, yet another round of petty men who clearly haven’t much else going on in their lives, other than the glow of their computer screens, punching away on their keyboards like apes pounding their chest, arguing about anything other than NTE.

    Why?

    Because it’s so much more rewarding to engage in topics one thinks they know something about, than have to delved deep within themselves in finding the courage to dive into the cold frigid water. Much more enjoyable to kick the ice around the deck looking for one last score.

    Thanks for not having enough compassion/empathy or decency to grasp how selfish it is to not only continue to disagree with the central theme of this space and not move on, but then take it upon yourselves to endlessly discuss whatever YOU think makes YOU feel important.

  • Crazy_Inventor *assumes* that which he claims to *prove* — namely, that the government version of the Moon Landing is truthful.

    To prove such a claim, it is not sufficient to merely present evidence that may be consistent with the government version — one must also show that no incompatible version could possibly have produced such evidence.

    In this case, C_I must show that his evidence is *incompatible* with an unmanned mission — something that his four examples fail miserably to do.

    On the one hand, we have evidence that the Official Moon Photos could not have been taken on the moon. On the other hand, we have …. nothing that has been demonstrated to require a manned mission to produce.

  • I have sympathy for Daniel’s view. Although I’d started to watch Kevin’s evidence and found the first pieces very unconvincing, as I’d mentioned on the forum, it really is an irrelevance to the almost certainly dire future that awaits us from the combination of predicaments that are the usual fare here. If I became convinced that humans have never been to the moon it wouldn’t matter a jot. I wouldn’t even feel sad or cheated. Space exploration is an irrelevance for our futures and if governments want to play games about it, so what? I’ll continue to believe that the moon landings were genuine because I’ve seen lots of so-called evidence of a hoax and all I’ve seen has been rebutted or at least shown to be inconclusive. I’m open to further evidence but I now realise that sitting through 3 and half hours of this stuff is not a particularly productive use of my time. Or anyone’s time.

    Believe what you want, folks, but keep your eye on the issues that really matter.

  • How ’bout we all sing a tune
    About cows jumping over the moon?
    Nature bats last?
    What a pain in the ass
    It is to be sad at our doom.

  • After looking at Xpascal’s one-man hatchet job website, which casts doubt on every aspect and every phase of the space program, I decided to take a closer look at the man’s other activities:

    C:\Documents and Settings\xpascal.IMAJEMAIL\Mes documents\

    and I discovered he wrote botware to build fake threads in the FF forum

    however fuckfrance com, the forum he wrote his spam bot for, was shut down last year.

    it’s in several spam databases: (see here) dnslookup fr/www fuckfrance.com

    “It’s been a fun ride, but it’s time for me to say goodbye. Life and family no longer permit me the guilty pleasure that was FF. If anyone wants to buy the site and run it, let me know. Otherwise, this is it.

    So long, and thanks for all the fish!”

    – and here’s a snapshot of fuckfrance com in 2005 :

    LIbFagDemsDIE
    AntiHippie
    Prophet_GWB_PBUH
    GBush
    ilovUSA
    HunchBacked

    and looking at backlinks:

    unclemeat wordpress com/2006/08/08/girls-of-the-idf/

    vnnforum com

    backlinks:

    Vanguardnewsnetwork com
    Stormfront org
    Davidduke com

  • As I’ve pointed out, the Moon stuff is relevant as an indicator how much much you can trust information coming over the TV and mass circulation papers, and partly as demonstrating that no one gets off this planet alive.