New Zealand Again

Robert Atack shot video while Kevin Hester and I were interviewed in a radio studio in Kapiti, New Zealand. The result is embedded below.


An article based on my recent trip to New Zealand is linked here. I’m misquoted repeatedly.

Comments 86

  • I am just enjoying now myself here with this! i am the first to post ever on a new post hehehe funny

  • Increased hydrogen sulfide in the atmosphere produces incidents like this, which are becoming more and more prevalent:

    [each of these is a news story linked to (some, multiple times) at the above site]

    2014-11-04 – Naked man jumps roof to roof at 3 AM, breaks into home, bites man and woman, screams incoherently, in coastal San Francisco (California)

    Quote: “Police said the intruder was completely naked. He fought with the homeowner and bit him on the shoulder, then jumped into his wife’s bed and bit her on the leg. Officers arrived quickly and took the intruder into custody. Neighbors said the burglar had to be restrained to a gurney and the intruder was screaming incoherently.”

    2014-11-04 – Naked man, 23, runs around on street, punches woman, tries to steal car, in Worcester (Massachusetts)

    Quote: “Police were called to School Street near Major Taylor Boulevard at about 4:15 p.m. Tuesday, where they say they found David Bennett, 23, of Templeton, completely naked and running around in the street. Police said Bennett punched a 32-year-old woman in the back of the head as he ran by her. He then jumped into a moving car on School Street and tried to grab the steering wheel…”

    2014-11-04 – Naked man, 19, assaults police, terrorizes residents, in Karabar suburb of Queanbeyan (Australia)


    [just a thought]

    Drop out of the womb into a soft, long term, psychological, emotional, and physical fun-house/prison of indoctrination (education), implanted ideas of mythological beings lording over us (religion), being behaviorally modified through play, dating, “jobs,” and other social interactions to both keep the prison going and providing a coping mechanism by which one accepts these born-into conditions. Even if you happen to get lucky and figure it out, there’s no way to change the overall dynamic – if you even got close to being able to do that, you’d be disappeared or dealt with so that the threat would be nullified. The cancer analogy fits extremely well to our effect on the planet. We’re so intelligent that we can figure out that we’re damaging our own environment and yet we’re unable to change the trajectory of extinction that we’re clearly on.

    Guy/Kevin Hester: great video above! Your heroic attempt to raise awareness may largely fall on deaf ears, but the reality of your message will guarantee that everyone will experience the situation being presented.

  • Excellent interview.

    A little bit of climate chaos came to New Plymouth on Wednesday -the most intense thunderstorm I can ever recall in my whole life.

    Whereas thunderstorms are not uncommon, they usually move at a reasonable speed, and thunder is heard in the distance, with occasional rumblings overhead. On Wednesday the storm raged for half an hour, apparently stationary (I was in my greenhouse at the time and felt to full intensity -no damage though). precipitation was in the form of heavy rain here, but a couple of kilometres away there was intense hail which caused considerable damage.

    Don’t you just love the level of ignorance and stupidity, as we hurtle straight towards climate mayhem:

    “It’s a once-off fluke.”

    ‘Counting the cost after hailstorm


    New Plymouth insurance brokers and cleanup specialists have been working overtime in the wake of Wednesday’s freak hailstorm.

    About 4pm the skies turned black and the central business district was bombarded by hail and torrential rain for half an hour.

    When it subsided the inner-city streets looked like a winter wonderland, while inside buildings the scene was anything but picturesque.

    After Disaster managing director James Nunes-Vaz said he and his team had been busy ever since.

    “I’ve been in the job 25 years and it’s the first of this size in Taranaki. It’s a once-off fluke. It’s the worst since the tornadoes in Oakura [in 2007],” he said.

    “I stopped counting [the call-outs] last night. Basically the damage runs from Cleggs [Furniture Court] all the way down Devon St to the port,” he told the Taranaki Daily News.

    The cause was the same everywhere, he said.

    “All the hailstones built up on the gutters and the water has overflowed and run back into the buildings. In a couple it’s filled the ceiling cavity and when that falls there will be further damage.”

    But damage wasn’t the only issue property and business owners faced, he said.

    “There is also the loss of trade with commercial properties. It does disrupt more than just the building.”

    Insurance assessor Andrew Brooke said he had put staff in Whanganui on standby in anticipation of a busy day but the heavy workload hadn’t hit yet. That would change once insurance brokers, who were in the thick of it, started to contact him.

    Doc van Praagh estimated the damage to Crowded House Bar & Cafe would be in the tens of thousands of dollars.

    “I called our insurance broker during the flood. I made sure of that.”

    Electrical damage was also the issue at Joe’s Garage, co-owner Karyn Grant said. “We’ve done the cleanup and are waiting for the system [that was damaged] to go live. We’ll be open by lunch.”

    Like most spoken to by the Daily News, Grant was philosophical about the ordeal.

    “It was picturesque outside, but it wasn’t the same spectacle inside,” she said.

    After being evacuated and closed on Wednesday, Pak’n Save was open yesterday morning, co-owner Alan Melody said.

    The Warehouse, which was also evacuated, was still closed yesterday, as was the Automobile Association.

    “We had a waterfall through our roof and half the building was flooded,” AA manager Fiona Croot said yesterday. “We’re closed until we’re cleared by the electrician and we’re waiting for it to dry out now.”

    Nunes-Vaz said the cleanup would continue for three to four days and it could be a more than a week before everything was sorted.

    – Taranaki Daily News’

  • @ Tom Says:
    November 6th, 2014 at 1:15 pm

    Drop out of the womb into a soft, long term, psychological, emotional, and physical fun-house/prison of indoctrination (education)…

    Astute observation old chap! ;)

  • Dear Doomers,

    I’d like to start by giving thanks to all who have posted and commented here over the last two years. I’ve been closely observing the site in this time, have learned a lot, and you’ve helped a young man grow in many ways. I cannot thank you all enough. I know I never comment, I just prefer to listen and absorb wisdom rather than speak in the company of wiser people here (and avoid petty bickering with some others).

    But getting to the main point- and some of you may find this silly or naïve but- I’ve come up with a design for a device which, in theory, should produce more power than it uses (perhaps producing up to three times as much power as it uses). It is quite simple in its design, (no alien power or tesla-style conspiracy stuff) and I’ve discussed the concept with my stepbrother, who has been to school for electrical engineering, and he seems impressed and excited about the concept. If this design proves to be as efficient as we predict in a real, working model, we believe it could seriously change things as far as power generation, heating and cooling, and fossil fuel mining is concerned.

    The catch is, we’re both broke and need funding (roughly $700-1000 U.S. dollars) to produce a working prototype. I didn’t want to try a kickstarter campaign or anything like that, because I trust the character and integrity of most people on this blog more than any other place online (and if this design proves to be as successful as we suspect… it could prove to be a huge thorn in the side of some of the largest, and most ruthless corporations known to history). In short, I’m rather concerned for my safety. But I’ve decided to go through with building a prototype (as benefits to the world outweigh any risks to my individual existence) and humbly request your help to get this thing going. And yes, it would likely require the burning of some fossil fuels to produce, transport, etc. – as any alternative energy producing system would. My main goals with this design would eventually be to provide some of the cleanest man-made power, heat and cool homes, distill seawater, generally anything to do with electricity, generally attempting to clean up some of the mess we’ve made of this world and last but certainly not least- to provide additional back up power to nuclear power plants- among many other potential uses.

    If the design becomes successful, and somehow I wind up rich, my wish is to use a large portion of the profits to spread the messages of this website, provide anything Dr. Mcpherson needs, and hopefully establish an NBL-style, full-blown eco-optimist utopia in southwestern Chile (with free housing for many of you), to perhaps serve as a model for other places (call me a dreamer, call me crazy, but one of my biggest wishes is to see lasting unification among the members here). I also dream of stalling the implosion of IndCiv, and hopefully wind up changing enough minds in a short time, for a future in which complex life can at least exist. I care about you guys, and wouldn’t risk sounding like a crazy-pants, if I thought it wouldn’t work. I’ve paid attention to nearly every discussion in this space… so yes, I’m quite aware of what we’re up against, but I ask your forgiveness if I sound naïve enough to fight for change. Sorry for any lack of detail at this point, and thanks for hearing me out.
    With love,

  • Justin,

    Go further back into the NBL archives:

    Entropy revisited

  • Writing Drivel

    Our world is too far askew
    For changing the fact that we’re through;
    There’s no point in a quest,
    But when feeling depressed,
    At least it’s something to do.

    Doomer Morning Routine

    I get up—a new day ahead:
    Another day less till I’m dead;
    I don’t care to bear
    The world that’s still there,
    So then I go right back to bed.

  • armageddon nervous song

  • Yes justin !! I also have i bridge cheap to sell to you over the Hudson and the bay in SF i also want to get rid of that tunnel i am building under the bosphorus EH ?? You want em cheap ?! send me a 1000$ and you have em .. Funny all these scammers seem to appear the same week . Some small time scammer guy is showing a generator from canada running on water . The other speaks from a breakthrough in fusion the third thorium the 4th on sun gas energy whatnot these all came up within the last week now even one even found its way to NBL very entertaining

  • I find it amusing that some people are willing to openly criticize something of which they have no knowledge of whatsoever (my invention). I hope to prove you wrong and with or without your help- no offense. Thanks for the good vibes! Frogs in the well…..

  • Just like religion there is a promised land in the future (here it is free energy) and they always need money

  • FriedrichKling Says:
    November 6th, 2014 at 1:27 pm
    “Robin Data:
    The spelling is Colombia, not Columbia.”

    Thank you. It was copied and pasted as is from Carolyn Baker’s site.

    “Another day less till I’m dead;”

    That refers to a little death, not the Great Death. After the Great Death, the little death – an end to another body-mind meat robot – changes nothing for the Void that is also Plenitude, inclusive all awareness.

    Replicating entities will continue to replicate to limits. The limits are external to the entities, acting as feedbacks, whether they be organelles, endosymbionts, cells, metazoa/metaphyta, or social groups. Humans just happen to be good at defeating limits – but successve limits get closer and closer to the immutable bedrock of Physics.

    A whirlpool or eddy is in dynamic eouilibrium with respect to flows of both matter and energy. So too are biological systems, but they are organisations of hierarchies of interacting complex branching and merging eddies of matter & energy. The pictures in any physiology or biological chemistry book illustrate this. Fascinating material, when not obligatory for examinations.

  • Folks down in NZ think THEY got it tough. Check this out.

    Just when you thought things couldn’t get any worse. The freaking Republicans show up. (Actually, I’m LMAO!)

  • first thing I saw this morning on Yahoo

    London (AFP) – A woman was murdered in an “act of cannibalism” and her suspected attacker died after he was Tasered by police at a British hotel, the BBC reported on Thursday.

    Police said a murder investigation was underway after the death of the 22-year-old woman at the Sirhowy Arms Hotel in the village of Argoed in south Wales, but did not specify the nature of her injuries.

    The BBC reported that she was “murdered in an act of cannibalism”, and had been in a relationship with the 34-year-old suspect.

    Officers were called to the hotel, which also operates as a hostel for homeless people, at around 1:30am (0130 GMT) after receiving a report that a man was attacking a woman.

    “The woman, aged 22 from Blackwood, was located with injuries and was pronounced deceased at the scene,” said a statement from Gwent Police.

    “A Taser was discharged and a man was arrested… Whilst under arrest, the man became unresponsive.”

    The man was given first aid but was later pronounced dead. Police described him as a local man.

    [this is a side effect of getting a whiff of H2S, you act irrationally and that you later die from]


    meanwhile, out in space

    Sunspot AR12191 – the size of Jupiter and largest sunspot in over two decades, unleashed five X-class solar flares

    The Earth’s biggest sunspot in over two decades has unleashed a barrage of solar flares, including five in the strongest, X-class, over a period of eight days, a NASA video shows.

    The sunspot, called Active Region 12192, the size of the planet Jupiter, was caught on camera producing flares between October 19 and October 27, when the phenomenon was visible from Earth. It’s one of the biggest sunspots of all time, ranking 33rd out of almost 33,000, reports.

    In addition to being biggest since 1990, AR 12192 is also interesting because it didn’t produce any coronal mass ejections – outbursts of hot plasma associated with solar flares, which are releases of energy.

    “What’s really curious about it is that it’s produced so many flares of pretty good size, but little or no coronal mass ejections,” NASA scientist Alex Young told “It’s not that it’s never happened before, but it tends to be the case that when you have a big flare, you generally get a big CME.”

    [just above this article is another: Sunspot AR2205 is crackling with M-class solar flares hurling multiple CMEs into space, you may want to also read, if interested]

    kevin: As you well know, storms are becoming truly mind-boggling in strength and duration, mostly due to the meandering jet streams and the heat content in the ocean now. The Bering Sea is about to unleash a huge one on Alaska (50′ seas!) that will impact the lower 48 states too. France too just got hit with a week of horrible and damaging weather. There are so many instances of flooding, waterspouts and rogue waves, tornados where none previously were sighted, damaging winds, cold snaps, record heat waves, and hail storms damaging farmland and crops, that it’s hard to keep up and a wonder we have food to eat still, not to mention that (a hobby of mine) wine-producing regions world-wide are increasingly having problems in this regard (same with coffee, cacao and other foods we like). Hang in there man! I really appreciate your continuing in the fray with your local councils and ‘leaders’ – a heroic (some would characterize it as pointless or dangerous) effort in the face of a world-changing tide going in the opposite direction – my hat’s off to you, sir. Just be careful, as the disappearance scenario you spoke of is a distinct possibility if you threaten these psychopathic goons once to often.

  • @Tom

    London (AFP) – A woman was murdered in an “act of cannibalism” and her suspected attacker died after he was Tasered by police at a British hotel, the BBC reported on Thursday.

    This could be the start of the Near Term HumanEoxylips.

  • Epoxylips

  • ogardener: oh yeah (great comment!)

    Here’s one on the continuing toxicity of the ocean:

    Methane venting victims? 4 kilometres of dead sardines wash up on the coast of Hokkaido, Japan


    The local fishermen state they have been fishing there for 60 years but haven’t seen such a thing.

    Hokkaido fisheries experiment station comment it might be due to the storm one night before, but the exact cause is not identified.

    On the other hand, local citizen commented on Twitter that that kind of storm was nothing rare, can happen quite often.

    [and let’s not forget about Fukushima, either, which is NEVER mentioned any more by the complicit mainstream media]

    Kirk: there’s so much to comment on about the Republican take-over, I don’t know where to start – but that’s as good a place as any – to indicate what we in the U.S. can expect going forward (from immediate allowance of passage of Keystone XL pipeline to more wars to gutting social services and de-funding science, to who knows what all with the religious fundies – it’s gonna get really bad here very soon). Thanks for that. Here’s one I saw yesterday that said it all:

    The ‘Double Government’ Secret Gets Out

    Via The Boston Globe, the secret is out: there’s a whole second government residing in the American national security apparatus that’s powerful enough to resist presidential orders.


    You know something is going on when the cautious Boston Globe publishes not one, but two, pieces dealing with the “double government.”

    This cryptic phrase encapsulates a serious claim about the American body politic: That a permanent and largely unaccountable bureaucracy keeps on doing what it wants to do, no matter who the voters elect to the White House.

    Both of the Globe articles refer to “National Security and Double Government,” a book by Michael J. Glennon, professor of international law at Tufts University. From the descriptions of its contents (we haven’t read the book yet, but we will—and perhaps excerpt), the author is talking, with due academic caution, about an out-of-control security/military apparatus. [read the rest]

    See the explosive copper production chart:

    See the explosive copper price chart:

    See expert opinion on peak copper:

    40% total Green Energy use, requires 200% more copper:

    4 POINTS:
    ► energy demands to increase 50% by 2050
    ► emissions have to decrease 80% by 2050
    ► peak copper hits 2030 – 2040
    ► we mined 50% of copper in the last 30 years
    ► 100% green energy requires 500% more copper
    ► post peak copper production cannot accelerate at any price

    We cannot physically afford to mine 500% more copper.
    We cannot recycle it into existence.
    We cannot conserve it into existence.
    We cannot efficacize it into existence.
    We can dream it into existence all we want.
    We are fucked. Now, here’s how we are double fucked.

    ► Humans and livestock are 97% of earth’s vertebrate biomass
    ► Humans and livestock eat 40% of land chlorophyll biomass
    ► 50% of vertebrate species died off in the last 50 years.
    ► 50% of vertebrate species will die off in next 40 years.

    ► There are 6 reasons for the coming mass extinction.
    ► Climate Heating is on 1 of those 6 reasons for mass extinction.
    ► Green Energy will not stop the end of life on earth.

  • @ Kirk

    McCain is one of the biggest and ,by far the most ignorant, cowards in the pantheon of numb nuts.

  • Justin ain’t got nothing. I have a device which produces 10 times the energy it uses, i only need $10 million to put it into use. It is based upon a simple principle, Systemic Utilization of Carbon and Keratin Enhancement and Reuse.

  • $10 million sounds reasonable for a sure bet like that.Let me know your PayPal account details.

  • Well I can outdo all of you who have commented so far on the matter of free energy because I have hundreds of energy capture devices that convert free energy into stored energy that I can use more or less whenever I like at close to zero cost.

    What is more my energy capture devices only cost about $20 each.

    They do require a little bit of maintenance, but have a marvellous capacity to increase their energy capture and energy conversion rates as time goes on.

    I call them fruit trees.

    Donations are nevertheless welcome while fiat currencies still have value.

  • Great to hear about that, Kevin. We finally discovered what green energy is. But if it doesn’t make electricity, no one will be interested. Sorry.

  • Dear doubters,

    I promise you will soon see. I promise you. Laugh if you want now, but i will expect you to recant your insulting remarks, when it becomes clear that you are ALL wrong. Hahaaaaa I’m looking forward to it personally…. But i really expected better from you guys. Anyways, you’ll see ;)

  • Justin,

    We’ll be ready & waiting, but not holding our breath.
    You realize, of course, that when you demonstrate your “1 erg in = 3 ergs out” device, you will get a visit from the MIB, or the acquisitions department of one of the oil companies, or both.
    If neither shows up, you could always try Mark Cuban & Co.’s Shark Tank show.

  • I’m sorry for commenting so much, and i will stop after this…. But I want to say that i do not blame any of you for your skepticism. I would probably think similar things if i was in your positions, and did not know what i now know. But I’m serious as a heart attack when I say that i believe infinite energy is just around the corner. This is not something highly scientific, you won’t need any kind of advanced education to understand the basics of my design… It’s ridiculously simple, frankly, and i cannot wait to make the coal industry, among others, obsolete.

    I’d like to share my design with someone, who could make it open source, in the possible event of my demise. I’ve recently, at my stepbrother’s house, seen a video of a man in another country demonstrate a device remarkably similar to the one I have in mind, and the power efficiency of his device is nothing short of fucking amazing.

    I may not wind up being the one to take credit, and become wealthy from this design, but at least I can rest easy knowing that infinite power, from machines able to power themselves and much more, is literally in the very near future. This won’t solve many of our pollution issues, but it’s gonna be a real treat to see these oiligarch fucks squirm. Oil will still have major uses, and the transition from fossil fuels won’t happen overnight obviously. I’m sorry for attempting to solicit investment from you guys, but I really don’t have a lot of other options, and i really want to use the potentially billions of dollars made from this device to get the dominant narratives expressed here, into people’s heads. Is anyone willing to help, or at least entertain the idea?

  • Nobody Cares

    He thinks that his rant is essential,
    But results are inconsequential;
    If he tries to insist,
    People tend to get pissed—
    This guy has got doomer potential!

  • Justin, we all have figured out ways to raise money for whatever cause we felt passionate about and of course it’s easy for me to say but I actually think it’s a responsibility one has: either get your work published or show it works. I think $2000 isn’t a lot to raise through one way or another, even in Chile (unless I have gotten something wrong about the economics of Chile, which I assume isn’t that different from that of Thailand).

    If you don’t care about money, I think putting it up on a torrent file and posting it on various sites like this will get its critiques and who knows, people may already build some and if enough do, it could change how things work around here (we may need to worry about heat build up from excessive energy use rather than heat build up from loss of energy).

    The Internet has had its shares of crazies (Ludwig Plutonium anyone?). You’re talking about something that goes against the basic laws of physics as we know it (infinite energy).

  • There is nothing defying the laws of physics about my design… Idk what makes people assume this. But thanks for the insight guys. I believe it is but a matter of time now. You’ve squandered a major opportunity, but this won’t hold me back. I will speak with my actions, and will return when I am successful. Wish me luck.

  • Justin.

    When you have finished rewriting the fundamental law of physics -energy cannot be created or destroyed (only converted from one form to another)- you can have a go at rewriting the fundamental law of chemistry -matter cannot be created or destroyed.


    When I was a child I had a Mammod miniature steam engine which ran on methylated spirit. The flywheel had a little groove which allowed one to use belts or rubber bands to turn other things.

    Unfortunately I no longer have the machine but I reckon I could get a similar device to run on twigs and tree trimmings, and couple it to a dynamo to generate enough power (at about 5% efficiency) to keep a couple of LEDs glowing.

  • This, in my mind, is the root of our problem dates back to the birth of agriculture when humans began warehousing stored energy from plants. And now:

    85 richest now have as much money as poorest 3.5B

    That is half of Earth’s population! Of course, it is all relative with fiat currencies and the coming collapse, as Jim Sinclair says,
    we had the “The Great Flushing” of 2008. We’re next headed into “The Great Leveling,” period from 2014 to 2016 in which the average American’s wealth will be wiped out. Followed by “The Great Reset,” in which the Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa will force the U.S. dollar off its pedestal as world reserve currency.


    In an attempt to add clarity to the above:

    Anyone with minimal knowledge of physics knows conservation of energy does not allow perpetual motion machines regardless of how many Youtube videos use obfuscation in an attempt to demonstrate perpetual motion.

    Of course, anyone who has been reading this blog for two years would be aware that associate professor of atmospheric sciences, Tim Garrett, has quantified civilization as a heat engine and any such fanciful perpetual engine would only add more heat to the problem.

    If memory serves, even one of the final graphs in the original Club of Rome Limits to Growth showed an exponential chart of industrial civilization heat production independent of the source of energy. Exponential chart means it does not end well…

  • More hopium buzz kill-> Renewable energy cannot run complex civilization.


  • @Kevin Moore

    Damn if that did not fire an old neuron in my brain…

    Mamod Stationary Engines

    This is the first piston valve stationary engine ever produced by Mamod. Speed is controlled by a Black-topped steam valve on top of the boiler.

    I had this as a child, but it sure did not cost $350 fiat dollars (reduced from $426)!?! With an inflation factor of 20x since the late 1950s it probably sold for ~$17.50.

  • Damn it, you guys, Justin is trying to advance the cause of humanity, and all you can do is put forth this law of physics and that law of chemistry. Haven’t you heard that human progress requires the breaking of all laws?:-)

    Justin, i don’t do this for just anyone, but you are welcome to use the Golden Gate Bridge, which i own, for nothing, for the next 10 years.

  • MMM

    Oops. My error. Only two m in Mamod (not that spelling makes much sense, but it is nice to get it right).

    I try avoid the word inflation to describe the devaluation of money that occurs when central banks print money, and call it devaluation of money via money-printing.

    Back in the 50s in Britain there was a coin called a farthing, which had the value of 1/4 of a penny, and since there were 240 pennies to a pound, a farthing was 1/960th of a pound, You could by farthing chews in the mid-50s. I think Mars bars were fourpence.

    Harold Wilson: “This will not affect the pound in your pocket.” (speaking of the overnight currency devaluation that followed the ‘You’ve never had it so good’ McMillan years.)

  • Do the Math Blog
    Using physics and estimation to assess energy, growth, options—by Tom Murphy

    Galactic-Scale Energy
    Posted on 2011-07-12

    “Earth surface temperature given steady 2.3% energy growth, assuming some source other than sunlight is employed to provide our energy needs and that its use transpires on the surface of the planet. Even a dream source like fusion makes for unbearable conditions in a few hundred years if growth continues. Note that the vertical scale is logarithmic.”

    It would appear that at the most fundaental of scales, zero-point energy fluctuations violate conservation of matter and energy; and as McKenna pointed out, even physicists need a miracle: a Big Bang.

    But now if the perpetual motion machinne pans out, we’re on our way to bypasss even Kardashev Level Four civilisations. Enough to make folks like Sith Master Sean and all his aliases happy as a pig in stuff.


    ‘Mysterious Phenomena’ off U.S. West Coast: Fish disappeared, whales nearly absent, no krill, high rates of egg failure among birds — California Fishermen: “There’s almost nothing there, just a lot of warm clear water”

    [and above that article, at ENE news, is this]

    TV: “This is really kind of scary… a grim reality” for West Coast — Alarm as baby whales keep dying; Since 2011 none have survived over a year — Biologist: We see them pregnant for weeks, then no longer pregnant — NOAA: “Not what we’re used to… Incredibly poor condition… Skeleton with skin” (VIDEO)

    How much longer does anyone think this can go on, when the oceans are dying? Gail and seemorerocks (today) concentrate on atmospheric chemical changes (ozone, mostly) that is already cutting into the world’s crop production (reducing it by half in India alone). The scenario that Guy points out in his lectures – that without food from the ocean and without food crops on land, we’re looking at extinction – seems to be playing out NOW. The next few years will tell the tale, as the decline is steepening by the day.

    We all know how interconnected the system of life is. Here’s a simple example:

    Thousands break quarantine to find food in Sierra Leone

    November 2014 – SIERRA LEONE – Thousands of people in Sierra Leone are being forced to violate Ebola quarantines to find food because deliveries are not reaching them, aid agencies said. Large swaths of the West African country have been sealed off to prevent the spread of Ebola, and within those areas many people have been ordered to stay in their homes. The government, with help from the U.N.’s World Food Program, is tasked with delivering food and other services to those people. But there are many “nooks and crannies” in the country that are being missed, Jeanne Kamara, Christian Aid’s Sierra Leone representative, said Tuesday. The Ebola outbreak in West Africa has killed nearly 5,000 people, and authorities have gone to extreme lengths to bring it under control, including the quarantines in Sierra Leone. Similar restrictions have also been used in Liberia and Guinea, the two other countries hardest hit by the epidemic. Some efforts have begun to show progress. The situation is Guinea is improving, as is the quality of care for Ebola patients, thanks to international aid, said Aboubakar Sidiki Diakite, an official with the country’s Health Ministry, who was visiting Paris on Tuesday. But more treatment centers and medical teams are still needed, the World Health Organization said at a news conference in Geneva on Tuesday. There are currently 16 treatment centers up and running and 58 more planned. To staff those centers, 500 foreign health care workers and 4,000 national ones are still needed.

    When houses are put under quarantine, teams are supposed to go to them to identify their needs, she said: How many people are living there? Are there pregnant women or sick people with special needs? But Kamara said that with the infections still increasing quickly, it was difficult for the government to keep up with the number of people being monitored for the disease. The outbreak in Sierra Leone has been shifting in recent weeks, with the number of new cases ballooning in the country’s western and northern districts, far from where the outbreak began, in the country’s east. In October, the World Food Program fed more than 450,000 people in Sierra Leone, including people who are under quarantine or being treated for Ebola, said Alexis Masciarelli, a spokesman for the agency in Dakar, Senegal. The distribution of food has been difficult, he said, since it has required bringing food to remote areas by poor roads. He acknowledged that getting good information about where people need help is difficult, but he said WFP asks smaller organizations, with deep connections to the communities, to help them keep track of a fast-moving situation.

    Also as part of the effort to control the epidemic, Liberia has ordered that the bodies of all Ebola victims in and around the capital be cremated. Ebola is transmitted through the bodily fluids of infected people, and secretions from dead bodies are among the most infectious. But the neighborhood around the crematorium on the outskirts of Monrovia, called Boys Town, is now demanding that the government move the facility elsewhere. Residents say the ash is polluting the area and the stigma surrounding Ebola is rubbing off on them, with people pointing them out in the market. The residents are threatening to hold a protest Thursday that would block cremations if the government doesn’t move the facility. –Breitbart

  • Tom,
    Quiet sun with sudden activity while earth poles flip may be sympathetic?

    Money Mech:
    Read Ugo Bardi’s explanation of minerals as money for war as the result of agriculture.

    Mister Zero Point Energy Dude:
    Good luck, wish you well, nothing will stop our fate. There are too many intermingled large forces at play.

    Note To Self:
    Just because I am such an nasty shit, I’ve revised my evil machinations list.

    here’s why you should always buy extra bags of straight noodles


    See the explosive copper production chart:

    See the explosive copper price chart:

    See expert opinion on peak copper:

    40% total Green Energy use requires 200% more copper:

    8 POINTS:
    ► Energy demands to increase 50% by 2060.
    ► Emissions have to decrease 80% by 2060.
    ► Peak copper hits 2030 – 2040.
    ► We mined 50% of all the copper in human history in just 30 years.
    ► 100% green energy requires 500% more copper.
    ► Post peak copper production cannot accelerate at any price.
    ► There is no real substitute for copper.
    ► Peak minerals includes more than just copper.

    ► We cannot physically afford to mine 500% more copper.
    ► We cannot recycle it into existence.
    ► We cannot conserve it into existence.
    ► We cannot efficacize it into existence.
    ► We cannot fantasize it into existence.
    ► We are f*cked. Now, here’s how we are double f*cked.

    ► Humans and livestock are 97% of land vertebrate biomass
    ► Humans and livestock eat 40% of land chlorophyll biomass
    ► 50% of vertebrate species died off in the last 50 years.
    ► 50% of vertebrate species will die off in next 40 years.
    ► 75% species loss = Mass Extinction

    ► There are 6 reasons for Mass Extinction.
    ► Climate Change is only 1 of 6 reasons for mass extinction.
    ► Green Energy will not stop the end of life on earth.

  • It all boils down to Energy Returned over Energy Invested or EROEI. Simple math really.

  • Do the Math Blog
    Using physics and estimation to assess energy, growth, options—by Tom Murphy

    Galactic-Scale Energy
    Posted on 2011-07-12

    “Earth surface temperature given steady 2.3% energy growth, assuming some source other than sunlight is employed to provide our energy needs and that its use transpires on the surface of the planet. Even a dream source like fusion makes for unbearable conditions in a few hundred years if growth continues. Note that the vertical scale is logarithmic.”

    It would appear that at the most fundaental of scales, zero-point energy fluctuations violate conservation of matter and energy; and as McKenna pointed out, even physicists need a miracle: a Big Bang.

    But now if the perpetual motion machinne pans out, we’re on our way to bypasss even Kardashev Level Four civilisations. Enough to make folks like Sith Master Sean and all his aliases happy as a pig in stuff.

    My father born in 1913. He remembered from his chiildhood when Indian currency was freely interconvertible with British currency. The British coins were actual gold and silver. In ‘mericuh coins were silver until 1964, and pennies were copper until 1982.

    Yes, the original bicycles were “penny-farthings”, with farthings and front wheels much the bigger.

  • (via

    more evidence of methane increase:

    [all of this in one day, documented every day, all over the world]

    2014-11-06 – Small plane bursts into flame mid-air, crashes and explodes near school in Latty Township (Ohio), 3 killed

    2014-11-06 – Powerboat bursts into flame near coastal Islamorada in the Florida Keys (Florida)

    2014-11-06 – School bus bursts into flame at intersection in Greenville (South Carolina)

    2014-11-06 – School bus bursts into flame on street in Tempe (Arizona)

    2014-11-06 – School bus bursts into flame on highway near Al Karak (Jordan), near the Dead Sea

    2014-11-06 – School bus bursts into flame while parked in shed in coastal Uppala (India)

    2014-11-06 – Passenger bus bursts into flame on Western Road in coastal London (Britain), third bus fire in a week in London

    2014-11-06 – Tanker truck hauling explosives bursts into flame on Highway 1 near Kamloops (Canada)

    “Note: Luckily it was the semi tractor that burst into flame this time and the driver disconnected the tank, else there might be a huge-ass crater in the highway there.”

    2014-11-06 – Deadly explosion and fire destroys home shortly before 12:30 AM in coastal New Smyrna Beach (Florida), 1 killed

    2014-11-06 – Chemical factory burns and explodes in Alta Córdoba (Argentina), windows shattered miles away, 66+ injured

    2014-11-06 – Mysterious underground fire burning in Harare (Zimbabwe)
    Quote: “Residents said only last week, a child was badly burnt when she stepped on the burning ground without noticing and was rushed to hospital.”

    2014-11-06 – Underground electrical fire and explosion sends flames shooting from manholes in Laredo (Texas), near the Rio Grande

    “Note: Three high school students collapsed to the ground with seizures and foaming at the mouth in El Paso (Texas), also near the Rio Grande, mentioned in the 2013-06-04 update”

    2014-11-06 – Underground electrical explosion and fire hits Worcester (Massachusetts), blackouts ensue

    2014-11-06 – Electrical substation damaged by fire in Norton (Massachusetts), senior center evacuated

    2014-11-06 – Transformer bursts into flame in coastal Port Campbell (Australia)

    2014-11-06 – Large pile of scrap metal bursts into flame at metal recycling business in Rocky Mount (North Carolina)

    2014-11-06 – Landfill erupts in flame at 3 AM in coastal Virginia Beach (Virginia)

    2014-11-06 – Landfill burns for fifth day, fire turning into ‘nightmare’, in Chester County (South Carolina)

    2014-11-06 – Rash of dozens of fires breaks out in and near Columbia (South Carolina), near Lake Murray

    2014-11-06 – Fishing pier damaged by fire in the wee hours in coastal Bay St. Louis

    2014-11-06 – Brush fire erupts in coastal Sandy Hook (New Jersey)

    2014-11-06 – Brush fire breaks out near Otay Lakes (California)
    Quote: “Authorities received several calls from people who saw flames about 9:40 p.m. near the upper portion of the reservoir.”

    2014-11-06 – Porch bursts into flame at home in Penn Hills (Pennsylvania)

    2014-11-06 – Huge numbers of fish washing ashore dead, four turtles die too, in Ganabara Bay in Rio de Janeiro (Brazil)
    Quote: “For reasons as yet unknown, huge numbers of fish from the same species have been dying on the tourist beaches of Ganabara Bay in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil over the past month, an unprecedented situation that is scaring the population. The municipal cleaning service have found 20 tons of shads, a particular species of fish similar to sardines and herrings, as well as four sea turtles.”

    2014-11-06 – Birds dying near tar sands in Alberta (Canada)

    2014-11-06 – Man found dead in burning RV in Rockford (Illinois), near the Rock River

    2014-11-06 – Woman found burned to death in burning vehicle along the Trans-Canada Highway near Morley (Canada)

    2014-11-06 – Man in his 50s burns to death while cooking at home in coastal Providence (Rhode Island)
    “Note: If your clothes adsorb methane and/or hydrogen sulfide and you get near a flame, you may burn to death. Static electricity might ignite you too, or any electronic device (electrified copper). There’ve been numerous mysterious fire deaths, including couples burning to death in cars, a woman burning to death on her porch while having a cig, a woman burning to death on a porch swing, other people burning to death while cooking, and so on. You MIGHT smell hydrogen sulfide (but shouldn’t count on that), but methane is completely odorless, so there’s really no way to tell if your clothes have been contaminated with methane or not, although such contamination is more likely to happen outdoors. But then if you go inside and start cooking, you might REALLY start cooking…”

    2014-11-06 – Second baby suddenly dies within 24 hours, at 4 AM this time, on coastal Staten Island (New York)
    “Note: The baby who suddenly died the day prior died before 4:30 AM, mentioned in the 2014-11-05 update. Wee hours, near the coast, sudden death. Babies are more susceptible to poisoning than adults, being smaller. Another baby died after bleeding from nose in Kansas City (Missouri) too, before 5:30 AM, also mentioned in the 2014-11-05 update…”

    [this list is just a selected list of the too-many to list here examples of the incidents that are happening every day]

  • sorry, I forgot the other relevant article, from seemorerocks today:

    Saturday, 8 November 2014

    Abrupt climate change

    Warm water flowing through the Bering Strait into the Arctic Ocean


    The warm water is apparently one of the big factors in thawing the methane hydrates. The permafrost has kept a cap on the methane below. As it thaws out it starts leaking like a sieve. Ice has sealed the fractures in the earth’s crusts that have plugged the route to the surface of methane from large reservoir’s of mantle methane.

    Large sudden bursts of methane could occur as the plugs thaw out. As methane comes up it can get into a runaway methane feedback loop.

    There are so many variables that any prediction of a time frame would be a huge guess. Shakova & ,Semiletov say the “free” methane which is in gas form could come up at any time. We are not talking about thousands or hundreds of years.”

  • Can’t bUy farthing chews now.

    Petrol has fallen in price to about $2.12 a litre (despite the huge fall in the value of the NZ dollar of around 11 cents since the ‘re-election’ of John Key), just in time to stimulate an orgy of overconsumption associated with the phoney festival of Christmas. That might delay the collapse of the Chinese cheap-crap-for-everyone economy by a few days.

    Fortunately for governments, most people have very short memories and have forgotten that petrol was bouncing around between $1.30 and $1.65 in 2005-2006.

    No devaluation of fiat currency by central bankers around here.

    I see that now that the IMF has agreed to pay Ukraine’s gas bill the fascists can get back to bringing ‘freedom and democracy’ at the point of a gun to the eastern regions. However, the collapse of oil prices suggests Joe Biden’s son won’t be in quite so much of a hurry to expand fracking operations in eastern Ukraine; looting-and-polluting isn’t quite a profitable as it was for the moment.

  • This isn’t fascism Kevin, this is pure capitalism. Fascism is a clumsy oafs attempt at seizing the reins of capitalism without understanding its English roots and the consequences and effects that must follow that set of social relations, for all of us globally and in all our various social economies; from Aztec S America feudal/mercantilist Asia.

    We would need to understand capitalism and these socio economic effects on all the worlds 7 billion, “cultural liberalism” notwithstanding, before we can understand how to address it……and before we can fully appreciate how accurate Guys prognosis is. This system is a speeding juggernaut to rapid climate catastrophe of Hollywood proportions.

  • And farthing chews were very much a component of this globalisation. Nostalgia can be misleading.

  • My parents were born in the slave camp and had little opportunity to become properly informed about anything -the only major sources of information being the propaganda put out by the British government via radio, and later television, and the propaganda put out by ‘newspapers’. They did what everyone else did and ate sugary foods, and allowed their children to eat sugary foods. (By the way, my father left school at 14, having been taught to read, to write superbly formed letters all at exactly the same angle of slope, and carry out simple mathematics. I was supposed to have become a factory worker.)

    Of course, it’s ten times worse nowadays, with corporations and supermarkets pushing high-profit sugary drinks etc. through a multitude of media not available in my childhood.

    Fascism: I go by Mussolini’s definition, the melding of the interests of corporations, government and the military.

    In practice, the melding of the interests of corporations, the state and the military goes back to the early 1600s, if not before, though the binding together (the real meaning of fascism) did not occur until smart-alec lawyers in the US used legislation intended to provide freed ]literal] slaves with some basic rights to ‘legally’ provide corporations with rights. As most of us know, American corporations and financiers were very impressed by Mussolini and even more so by Hitler, and went as far as attempting to convert the US into an overtly fascist state. Covert fascism continued.

    Overt fascism seem to be the only option left for the psychotic sociopaths who are in control of most western nations, if they are to maintain the flow of benefits to themselves by crushing the bulk of the remainder of the population.

  • @ Kevin

    They can call it what they like but fascism is nothing other than the crass opportunism of an oaf who has little understanding systems and the nature of the social relations they give rise to. This was Hitlers great shortcoming and the man was basically an idiot. His popularity stems from the fact that he appealed and still appeals to the widespread and deliberately cultivated idiocy out there.

    But the hard facts are that capitalism is a powerful set of social relations based around its English roots. It began with the British Empire and will end in globalised climate catastrophe. Guy McPherson has captured our quandry eloquently for as capitalism spreads, the more entrenched does the risk become that this is not going to end well for life on this planet.

    Nothing short of a rise in objective political awareness can reverse this but the climate issue is debateable such is the extent to which capitalism has degraded this planet. Denial is rife so one might as well speak to the wall.

  • Here is another item regarding the storage issue getting in the way of any “alternative energy” dreams.
    California public utilities vote no on energy storage, Roger Andrews, posted by Energy Skeptic on 116/14.

    In 2002 California set itself an ambitious renewable energy target – a third of its electricity from renewables by 2020.
    Whether it will meet it, however, remains an open question because the more intermittent renewable energy California adds the more difficult it becomes to integrate it with the grid. This problem in fact became evident fairly early on, and in an attempt to solve it California in 2010 passed legislation (AB 2514) to encourage its publicly owned utilities to install energy storage – batteries, thermal, flywheels, CAES, pumped hydro (not exceeding 50 MW), whatever worked – requesting them to develop viable and cost-effective plans and submit end-2016 energy storage capacity targets by October 1, 2014. This deadline has now passed, the ballots are in and the submissions from 29 of 31 California publicly owned utilities (two of the links provided don’t work) have been published here (h/t Mark Miller for the link).
    And how much energy storage did the 29 utilities commit to?
    27.6 MW, equal to roughly 0.1% of their combined peak load. Enough to keep the lights on for maybe a few seconds:
    • Two utilities (Los Angeles Department of Water and Power and Redding Public Utilities) committed to new storage projects totaling 27.6 MW.
    • Two utilities (Riverside Public Utilities and Vernon Gas and Electric) set targets of zero MW.
    • One utility (Glendale Water and Power) adopted its existing 1.5 MW of installed thermal storage as its target.
    • The remaining 24 utilities declined to set a target, almost all on the grounds that energy storage is cost-ineffective and/or technologically immature.
    Most of the submissions consist of copies of Board Resolutions with little or no technical backup[Several submissions follow]……..
    So here we have a near-unanimous vote of no confidence in energy storage from utility professionals whose job it is to supply reliable power to consumers and who understand the realities of the electricity market. From it we can conclude:
    1. That California is not going to get any meaningful amount of energy storage capacity before 2020.
    2. That in all likelihood no one else is going to get any either. The economics just aren’t there (pumped hydro excluded).
    3. That lack of energy storage capacity will continue to limit the grid penetration of non-dispatchable renewable generation for the foreseeable future.
    [And it’s hard to see much of a future beyond 2020, at current rates of worsening of the triple crisis]
    Key excerpts from the submissions of all 29 utilities are listed below for reference. I’ve left the “Whereases”, “Now Therefores” and “Be It Resolveds” out to improve readability:[Excerpts follow]

  • Karl Marx Says:
    November 8th, 2014 at 6:22 pm

    “But the hard facts are that capitalism is a powerful set of social relations based around its English roots. It began with the British Empire and will end in globalised climate catastrophe.”

    The latter is true. But the actual Karl Marx noted that capitalism did not begin with the empire, or in cities and trading activity, but in the changed nature of agricultural activity of the English countryside, with The Enclosures. starting in the 15th and 16th Centuries.

  • @ Jeff

    If you will note, I did qualify its roots and then the mechanism (imperial) through which it spread. It pays to get to the heart of capital and hence the attraction of English bourgeoisie values and the cultural ramifications for us at the climate level globally.

    There is much misunderstnding over what Marx meant in the ideas he developed but the takeaway note is that capitalism and fascism share nothing in common. Fascism is a mish mash of confusion and opportunist intent and is not likely to serve the accumulative process at all other then in the last days when decoupling sets the globalist phase asunder…and climate will by then have signed all our death warrants.

  • Fascism is just another set of policy measures which capitalists resort to when the situation gets to the point that they cannot abide even the pretense of democracy. Mussolini himself said a better name for it is “corporatism.” Hitler was just a frontman for the German industrial ruling elite, the likes of Krupp, Thyssen, finance minister (and Rockefeller operative) Hjalmar Horace Greely Shacht and the like. See “Trading With the Enemy” by Charles Hingham (1982) for some gory details about the intermesh between the American ruling elite and the Nazi elite. And it doesn’t include the unknown-at-the-time support offered the Nazi regime by Prescott Bush (Dubya’s grandfather) and Averell Harriman (a principal architect of the New Deal) who both ran Union Bank. When fascism comes to America, it will simply have a different name.

  • @ Jeff

    Marx stressed the subtle difference between objective and subjective dialectics for good reason. Capitalist social relations have an inner logic that defy attempts to configure those social relations in absurd ways and fascism is the height of absurdity at this juncture. On the other hand, social democracy and bourgeoisie liberals make more sense when in partnership with capitalists against bastions of feudalism such as Islam or as spearheads into emerging sources of new accumulation such as China and other former socialised states. Of course when decoupling onsets, it will be field day for all manner of exotic permutations as capitalists slit their throats so yes, there will be all manner of strange bedfellows. But more closer to home, we need to be listening carefully to Guy as we prepare for capitalisms collapse in the coming decades bearing in mind its core tendencies as its drives us to its final culmination.

  • I’d like to say that Guy’s goodness and respect for people, despite our ruinous progress causing contempt by others , it gives great respect for his message and moves me. He gave it all up for this revelation and he tells the truth. Guy is a moral giant in this venal world but in so gentle a way.

  • Can we say that capitalism is the “growth of the monster” phase while fascism is the “eat its own tail” phase.

    We can say that capitalism is itself a feedback loop because the more it grows, the more heat and CO2 it makes. The EROEI just keeps getting lower; harder to drill, harder to mine, harder to maintain infrastructure, further to haul stuff, more robots doing the work, etc.

  • @ dmandave

    That just about sums it up. Automation is one of those contradictions that has capitalists by the balls. On the one hand they would love to exclude the worker from the equation so as to get a bigger haul of the goodies but on the other hand they need him backing up at the counter buying their junk. So its always going to confound them as they need to pay the poor suckers. Generally, history threw us a curved ball with the emergence of this system. We of course have dug ourselves a deep hole in globalising the monster which will take us to a fairly nasty end. We had a slim chance during the labour uprisings last century but of course, the Cold War antics of the silly buggers at the helm of government in the West, especially the liberal silly arses put paid to any hope we had of cobbling together a viable set of social relations.

  • How humanity handles a crisis, always stumbling into several more:

    Any questions about “our” ability to survive even the smallest perturbations of IndCiv “normality”?

    Drove through our mutual friend Godofredo’s hometown yesterday, along a very beautiful river. Lucky guy, far from the madding North.

  • Tom Says:
    November 8th, 2014 at 7:43 am


    Abrupt climate change

    Warm water flowing through the Bering Strait into the Arctic Ocean
    That seems to be part of a feedback loop that is slowly disintegrating the polar vortex and having a very abrupt impact on tornado counts at the moment (On The Origin of Tornadoes – 5).

  • Karl Marx, this is off the topic to a large extent but I think the phenomenon you outlined is fascinating. Historically, the most extreme example of the elite grabbing just about ALL the product of labor, leaving labor only with subsistence, was probably the 17th and 18th century West Indies plantation economies. Unlike the mainland plantations in Brazil and to a lesser extent the American South, there was no escaping these plantations, and since the business model was to work the slaves to death, and import more slaves, the plantation owners weren’t particularly interested in keeping their work force alive. The situation was so extreme that what had at one time been a considerable white population of the islands, who formed a sort of a middle class, disappeared completely(Alexander Hamilton came from this population), leaving just the slaves and the slaveowners.

    This is important in the history of the degradation of the biosphere, since the capital that funded the industrial revolution came from these plantations. However, the model “worked” because the products of the plantations, which eventually came to consist exclusively of sugar, could be exported and sold in parts of the world where the population did not consist of slaves being worked to death. Its hard to see a way the system could have functioned if the slaveowners themselves had to literally eat all the sugar produced, if nothing else they needed the sales to get the income to buy what was necessary to keep the plantations running, even if they wanted to keep them running out of sheer sadism.

    If automation is allowed to take its course, its clear that the whole “employ workers to produce things that you then sell to other people, using some of the proceeds to maintain the equipment and workers and pay off the loans and keep the rest for yourself” dies because there is no one to sell to, and if the machines really produce everything there is no need to sell, you just have the machines produce everything. Its then put up or shut up time as to what to do with the literally billions of people made redundant. Since its clear the biosphere can’t support billions of people long term, I’m quite pessimistic.

  • Ed.

    You have made several very valid points. However, not to be overlooked is the role of plain and simple conquest and theft in the establishment of Britain as a global military and industrial power.

    Clive of India initially went to India to establish trading opportunities but quickly realised he had a unique opportunity to use a gang of thugs to steal stuff and to set up a personal empire, with himself as the figurehead, leaving the actual work to others.

    Rhodes managed something similar in Africa, and even got a country named after him.

    It is said that the precious metals, jewels and other booty Clive stole in a couple of years and had shipped to England amounted to the biggest heist in all of history. The legalised theft of Spanish gold and silver (previously stolen, of course) in Elizabethan times helps establish England as a superpower. You can pay a lot of German mercenaries for quite a long time if you have plenty of silver coins.

    It is said that Rothschild perpetrated one of the biggest scams in all of history at the time of the Battle of Waterloo. According to the story, he had agents observing events and a fast courier system. According to the story, he went to the Stock Exchange with a very long face, suggestive of Britain having lost the battle, and triggered a massive sell-off. He proceeded to buy numerous stocks at well below market value, and increased his fortune by an immense amount in a matter of hours when the official courier arrived to announce the defeat of Napoleon’s army.

    However, the best scam of the lot is to loan money at interest. Sit back and watch the money arrive, leading to the aphorism:

    The crime of robbing a bank is a mere trifling compared to the crime of establishing a bank.

  • Anyone who thinks that China is a “formerly socialist state” and that there are other such states has not a clue about Karl Marx’s actual analysis. Wage labor and the basic social relations of capitalism were never even remotely abolished in either China or the Soviet Union. Lenin was quite honest, saying that what his party was working on was the creation of STATE CAPITALISM. After his death, Stalin proclaimed the Soviet Union to be “socialist,” because he said so, and dissenters got a long-term vacation n Arctic resorts. Socialism is not about the state ownership of capital, it’s about the abolition of capital as a social relation. Marx was very clear and explicit about this. The idea of someone calling himself “Karl Marx” and posing the Soviet Union and China as “socialist” at one time is what led Marx to say he was not a “Marxist.”

  • See the fist section of this page,
    regarding Marx and “state socialism.”

  • It is important to understand the nature of objective dialectics and why human behaviour is confined by its parameters leading to such behaviours as resource conflict and habitat destruction. In doing so it enables us to make sense of the seemingly irrational rush to climate suicide and helps us convey the urgency of the need to alter our group behaviours. Time is not on our side with the spread of capitalist dysfunctionalism but the only sane alternative, communism, is also poorly understood which does not help things. The long and the short is that infinite growth, accumulation and resulting toxicity provides a few with short term gains. As a species however, the long term effects of this system are utterly incapable of being reconciled with this planets current climate life friendly configuration. We deny this reality at great cost to ourselves, both rich and poor.

  • @Jeff

    I have noticed in this area whenever these matters are discussed there is a huge kerfuffle over what Marx said ets etc and the salient points are lost in the argument. I am however careful in the use of my language for precisely this reason and characterised these entities as socialised, NOT socialist. The precise details of that socialisation are less relevant although it goes without saying that objective socialism will be a function of globalisation. What however is of concern to us at this juncture is that capitalism poses extreme risks to us all of the terminal kind. It would help if you could flesh those out rather than derail those points by obsessing over my every little detail. There are no points scoring here, just the conveyance of critical core points, the finer details notwithstanding. Thanks

  • Karl Marx, please limit yourself to two comments daily

  • The ‘myth of human agency’ is as recalcitrant in the hearts of activists as is divinity in the hearts of true believers. It is not just similar, but nearly identical, where each are equally blind to the necessity of remaining ‘hopeful’ in spite of any amount of evidence to the contrary.

    The myth of “we” is a terribly difficult faith to let go of, for it is the very foundation of ALL ‘progressive’ thought stretching back nearly half a millennia. Once one has come to terms with the notion of “we” being a false notion, an incredible sense of loss and futility fills the void left the by absence of thinking ‘we’ could have changed course, and the mind naturally recoils from such thought. Which is why the unprecedence of NTE is the ultimate source of cognitive dissonance. Those who make it through, find a surreal sense of acceptance, those who don’t continue on within the manifold memes of past precedence.

    Holding onto the past, is just a way of denying the present…… less the future. Anger and the necessity of placing blame just serves as a means of continuing to lie to ourselves in absence of having to learn how to live with such dismal resignation.

    And given a concept like NTE runs so contrary to virtually everything we’ve ever learned, it’s completely predictable that the vast majority within any culture wouldn’t be able to accept such a life altering meta-narrative. It’s far easier to dwell within lesser orders of magnitude.

    The self-evidence that there will never be a revolution/revolt capable of slowing down ecocide……no less preventing it, is so overwhelming, there actually might be more truth in New Testament, compared to the fantasy that humanity today is capable of living sustainably.

    Not only is there no hope, but hope itself has only ever been synonymous with denial. In light of NTE, Karl Marx might as well be Abraham.

  • @Daniel
    “Which is why the unprecedence of NTE is the ultimate source of cognitive dissonance. Those who make it through, find a surreal sense of acceptance, those who don’t continue on within the manifold memes of past precedence.”

    Daniel, you always manage to hit the nail on the head (imho)
    Acceptance is the key of course, but it is a lonely road to walk down for the very few of us who have arrived at this point. Thankfully, we have Guy, and NBL as a place to go to as a port in the storm of insanity that surrounds us all.

  • Acceptance includes neither despair or anger at thwarted expectations, nor evasion by averting one’s attention or resort to inaction. Each of these responses betrays a failure of acknonledgement. They are a consequence of ureradicated hope and fear: as long as these persist, the tail will wag the dog.

  • Shep contributed, “The Pantheon of Numb Nuts”! A great new all encompassing categorical nameplate for all politicians in general! Boy o boy, if that doesn’t call a spade a spade then I don’t know what does! Where else but on NBL?

    A high level member of the Pantheon has gained a new title and new power to effect our lives. I laughed ’till I cried!

  • I will say it, that NTE too often comes of as neo-Calvinist theology. And like I also said before, when I reach “Acceptance”, you can, and I insist, that you take me out back and shoot me. If eradicating ‘Hope’ entails eradicating any notion of getting a metaphorical dagger in the guts of the people who shoved this mess down everyone’s throat, or giving up on trying to keep the horror down to 6 degrees above baseline rather than “accepting” 16 or more, then I am OD-ing on hopium with flecks spraying everywhere and powder caked all over my face.

  • What a Mess

    To be happy is what we’ve pursued
    Ever since evolution made mood;
    But the odds that we could
    Were never that good,
    And with doom, we’re totally screwed.

  • Guy, you are the man for putin up with us aholes. i just saw The Wall about some Austrian woman who survives in the Austrian Alps.

  • I was amazed to find this podcast out of KPFA in San Francisco in the states on a program called Guns and Butter , which had some useful postings in the past. Now they are propping this guy Ben Davidson who is claiming that all this temperature increase is, you know, sun spots, man. Just, like, you know…the sun. Not me…not us…not my cool ride, and definitely not my girlfriend. But the sun. And you all are a bunch of conspiracy kooks. Now where is my remote?

    So I left this note:

    Fine. Now how about the 40% increase in acidification in the oceans? 90% die off of all marine biomass? 50% die off of all land vertebrates? How about the continued accumulation of CO2 in the atmosphere, now up to 400ppm and rising because emissions will not stop ever? The sun isn’t doing any of that. How about all the new blow holes in Sibera or off the coast of the Carolinas? This podcast is not going to save you from yourself my lovely 1st world friends, sitting atop the greatest pyramid of privilege ever conceived; who are most responsible for and benefited the most from the greatest amount of carbon pollution dumped in the history of humanity. As the ship sinks below the waves we’ll be hearing this over and over “The sun…The sun…it’s the sun….{gurggle}….” Say goodnight Gracie.

    And this was immediately marked as “Spam” on KPFA filters, so I reported a bad flag with this note:
    Why is this spam? Are you not going to acknowledge that acidification exists and is measurable? That extinctions are off the charts? That CO2 concentration is now 400ppm as measured on Mauna Loa? Best to keep head in sand. After all this is America.

  • Marx:

    Please explain your nebulous remark, “They can call it what they like but fascism is nothing other than the crass opportunism of an oaf who has little understanding systems and the nature of the social relations they give rise to.”

  • from Signs of the Times:

    SOTT Earth Changes Summary – October 2014

    and, as we can see it just keeps ramping up:

    Monster storm becomes strongest on record for Alaska

    [read about it, if you haven’t already]

    Wester: Atta way to give ’em ‘what for’! They don’t listen – in fact, publishing crap like that indicates their denial mindset – so it isn’t any surprise that they won’t publish your comment. I have the same problem with Robert Scribbler’s site. I left a few comments there that were illustrative of the problems with ‘green’ tech, and now ALL my comments seem to end up in endless ‘moderation’ and remain unpublished. Nobody that’s profiting or sitting in a position of ease or power wants to hear the truth, because it ‘rains on their parade.’ Acceptance doesn’t (necessarily) mean giving up. You well know where we’re headed but refuse to give up the fight, as many of us here (on various fronts). Thanks for being brave.

  • Some folks still think this is green energy:

  • @ wester,

    The KPFA fellow is a fine christian gentleman propping up his god. Sneaky.

  • Daniel,

    Your post from Sunday:

    All I can say is yes, yes, yes for putting it plainly once again.

  • Wester Says:
    November 10th, 2014 at 1:20 am

    “I was amazed to find this podcast out of KPFA in San Francisco in the states on a program called Guns and Butter , which had some useful postings in the past. Now they are propping this guy Ben Davidson who is claiming that all this temperature increase is, you know, sun spots, man. Just, like, you know…the sun. Not me…not us…not my cool ride, and definitely not my girlfriend. But the sun. And you all are a bunch of conspiracy kooks. Now where is my remote?

    So I left this note:……

    And this was immediately marked as “Spam” on KPFA filters, so I reported a bad flag with this note:
    Why is this spam? Are you not going to acknowledge that acidification exists and is measurable? That extinctions are off the charts? That CO2 concentration is now 400ppm as measured on Mauna Loa? Best to keep head in sand. After all this is America.”

    Bonnie Faulkner, the host of Guns and Butter, has good instincts when it comes to 9/11. When it comes to science, however, in particular climate science, she is just about clueless. She believes what anyone tells her, particularly if it has a conspiracy angle tying global warming to some plot by the New World Order to impose its way. I have tried to talk to her it’s impossible, she thrives on stuff like Ben Davidson. She has had on people who claim that the climate is being fine tuned by people in some facility with knobs and dials, in order to create chaos as a pretext for police state measures. She also believes in free energy and the like. Back when the program started, right around 9/11, it was one of the first to discuss Peak Oil, featuring Mike Ruppert and Richard Heinberg. Then she did a 180, featuring nothing but people selling all sorts of “cheap, plentiful energy” hoaxes and scams. This is a combination of her sheer scientific ignorance and a self-interest in believing the trash, so she can hawk it on the program.

    And when you make a comment at the page, it’s ALWAYS tagged as spam, doesn’t mean it won’t get posted, that’s just the editing program used by the station’s website.

  • When you live in a scientifically illiterate society which is run by liars and thieves, and in which the vast majority of people do no research, completely absurd statements are accepted as fundamental truth and are promulgated endlessly.

    The increased warming witnessed over recent decades came at a time of declining solar output (albeit miniscule) and well below the modern peak in sunspot activity,

    Daniel once more postulates that NTHE trumps everything. It seems to me that human stupidity is what trumps everything.

  • The latest post seeks your input. It’s here.

  • I’m going to give you the benefit of doubt Kevin, because NTE obviously trumps everything; you know, something about life preceding thought. And what you were actually wanting to say, is that just because NTE is now fast approaching, it “shouldn’t” trump “our” moral imperative to fight the good fight.
    Is that a little closer to the point you were trying to make? 
    Clearly, given that you have openly stated as much, you don’t want to discuss NTE, and all you’re wanting to discuss is fighting evil fascists. 
    Now, the question is, what has been the locus of discussion here at NBL ever since Guy wrote “We’re Done” over two years ago? 
    Has it been the century old quest of fighting fascism, and/or continuing to explore strategies of collapse preparedness many of us have been steeped in for the last fifteen plus years?
    Or has it been that incredibly inconvenient, utterly unprecedented, life altering, soul devouring, imperative confounding, grief inducing, irreconcilably sad subject Guy has been discussing ever since? 
    Can’t for the life of me understand why anyone wouldn’t want to discuss that Kevin!
    So since you’re supposedly an expert at identifying “stupidity”, please explain to us why it is that you feel you’ve the right to openly disparage the very subject which has brought many of us together here, for the sake of furthering your utterly ineffectual agenda that has done nothing in preventing NTE from becoming the locus of discussion at NBL? 

  • .
    Been away for a while, got back in Denver just in time for the snow and cold…
    The Voluntary Extinction Movement
    Thou shalt not procreate.
    The Church of Euthanasia
    Save the planet, kill yourself.

  • …for the sake of furthering your utterly ineffectual agenda that has done nothing in preventing NTE from becoming the locus of discussion at NBL?

    I think you meant “…that has done nothing BUT PREVENT NTE from becoming the locus of discussion at NBL”.

    BTW(1), could you point out something that kevin has said that you interpret as “openly disparag(ing)e the very subject which has brought many of us together here”? Thanks, because I don’t read every sentence about how he’s once more beat his head against a brick wall trying to educate his local board of officials and I might have missed it.

    BTW(2) Y’know, some of us here did the express route over/through the first four grief stages (Denial, Anger, Bargaining, and Depression) and just jumped to Acceptance of what is almost a ‘lead pipe cinch’ to happen soon, climate-wise. About 6 months or so before I found NBL, my wife died of cancer with a very short period between diagnosis and demise. We didn’t have time to deny the CAT scan report of a fist-sized mass on her right lung, didn’t have any reason to be angry (she’d been a smoker for about 50 years), there was nobody to bargain with, and there wasn’t any sense in getting depressed. We skipped right to the acceptance of fighting it with radiation (surgery wasn’t realistic). Too little, too late, too bad.

    I’d bet that a lot of people here have gone through similarly direct routes to the acceptance phase of what we’re in. A-a-and their acceptance doesn’t have to include what I get the impression yours does, which is that we’re all even close to equally guilty.

    The first person to figure out how to start & maintain a fire or the one who figured out how to plant and harvest a whole bunch of corn do not have a level of culpability equal to that of the Koch brothers or the boards of the oil companies.

    Our contemporary villains have way more knowledge of the consequences of their actions than the Fire Dude or Pop Corn did and they have had the power to change things…maybe not change things enough to support our current population or any number close to it, but change things a lot…yes, they coulda…and they didn’t change much of anything.

    I’d put this clip up as a simple link w/o the pic, but I really don’t know how to do that…so if lyrics like “Let fury have the hour, anger can be power, you know that you can use it” and “In these days of evil presidentes, lately one or two have really paid their due”, just say “No” and don’t play it.

  • I was able to get two posts at the Guns and Butter site Wester and i discussed earlier today, awaiting on a third, feel free to click on the link and add your comments. Most of the current ones are just stupid beyond belief, including the notion that the IPCC is advancing the status pushing the notion that the world is undergoing warming, with the idea being to sock it to the common people with taxes.

  • good to hear from u pat.

  • Thanks “the virgin terry.”
    I will tell all soon…
    Just ridin’ on this runaway train, staring out the window, with a cat on my lap.
    Been away for a while, got back in Denver just in time for the snow and cold…
    The Voluntary Extinction Movement
    Thou shalt not procreate.
    The Church of Euthanasia
    Save the planet, kill yourself.