by the virgin terry

it seems the topic of police abuse just won’t go away. how can it when it happens so often? most of it is routine psychological intimidation and humiliation of supposed ‘bad guys’. much of it occurs quite openly and shamelessly, with tacit approval of much of the so-called ‘middle class’. that’s the surreally tragic and scary thing. lots of ‘authoritarian followers’ living in our midst, some rabidly supportive and protective of their precious ‘authorities’, secular or sectarian.

how tragically dumbed down has the amerikan middle class become? one answer is found here.

we live in a police state. ‘our’ corporate owned, cia controlled lamestream media serves as the public relations and propaganda arm of ‘our’ (mis)leaders. ‘public’ schooling is indoctrination, and dogmatic religion is just plain insane. all designed to keep us stupid, crazy, pacified, and more or less obedient to ‘authority’. ‘give me liberty or give me death?!’ in amerika, u better be careful what u ask for. murderous ‘authority’ trumps liberty, living under a dystopian dictatorship.

start watching youtube videos of police abusing, intimidating, and bullying those they’re paid to ‘serve and protect’, and it seems the supply of them is endless. click on one, a dozen more new ones pop up to the side. there must be hundreds, if not thousands of them. of course, the cops know better than to pick on anyone who isn’t relatively powerless. racism is usually blamed, and although it’s certainly relevant, i think it’s more a matter of class and singling out those who appear to be non-conformist, or not sufficiently inclined to cower when confronted.

i don’t know what other ‘middle class’ amerikans see when they watch videos of police brutality and murder. i see what would be heinous crimes if perpetrated by just about anyone who isn’t an ‘authority’ with a badge. i don’t see any excuse for them, other than a sick and evil social establishment that supports and protects aggressive and abusive enforcement of it’s ‘laws and orders’. they’re on a par with war crimes in my mind. both involve murderous abuses of ‘authority’.

like many sheeple no doubt, i’m puzzled sometimes that grand juries always seem to let abusive ‘authorities’ off the hook, even when they’re caught on video. how can that be? well, it’s by design. grand juries are run by prosecutors, not judges. they have complete freedom to choose who is brought before the grand jury, who gets to testify, and what evidence is presented. someone famously once wrote that a prosecutor could get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. on the flipside, it’s obvious they can also persuade grand juries to let perps walk, which they obviously are inclined to do when those perps are their partners in oppression. anyone who thinks the (in)’justice’ system is on the up and up doesn’t know anything about it. fact is, the abuse of ‘authority’ and immunity from prosecution starts at the top, with the prosecutors themselves. check it out for yourself if u don’t believe me (here, too).

as the famous comic george carlin lamented regarding our fucked up state of affairs, ‘no one seems to notice, no one seems to care’. no one with the power to do anything about it, that is, assuming that any one individual might have the power to right such powerfully entrenched wrongs. considering what happened to jfk, that shouldn’t be assumed (pdf here).

misinformed and propagandized by the lamestream media, most middle class amerikans fear criminals more than cops. i suppose i’m one of the sad few who sees it the other way around. i’d feel a lot more secure with a lot fewer cops to ‘serve and protect’ me, and a major attitude adjustment for the ones remaining. in fact, what we need is a radical attitude adjustment for all of amerikan society, so that inequality and injustice are minimized, thus minimizing the need for police in the first place. fat chance of that!

listen to slick elite corporate politicians like new york gov. (1%) cuomo and the white house resident, former cannabis enthusiast and current hypocrite in chief obama when they address this issue. they make it sound as if the problem isn’t that ‘authority’ is in fact being routinely and frequently abused. oh, no, that’s not it at all! it’s just a matter of perception that many ‘minorities’ have, that needs to be worked on. of course, being ‘authorities’ themselves, they know what’s going on, and fully approve of it, but they have to say something about it in public, so as usual choose the path of least resistance, expressing mealy mouthed ‘concern’ and promises of ‘reform’. yeah, right! same shit, different day.

i am not looking forward to the future when inevitable economic collapse due to resource depletion, environmental degradation, anthropogenic climate change, yada yada combined, exacerbates all social woes, leading to ever more extreme, pervasive, and systematic authoritarian abuse. definitely not looking forward to it.


The latest insane accusations about McPherson’s work don’t come from heterosexual, Caucasian, male podcasters or heterosexual, Caucasian, male hydrologists. Instead, they emanate from the Dayton City Paper, and they include this juicy line: “Guy McPherson, professor emeritus from the University of Arizona, recently publicly recommended societal suicide.” Read the entire story, from 9 December 2014, here. Perhaps you can let us know the meaning of “societal suicide.”

Lawrence DiStasi provides a more favorable assessment. It’s here. His piece was penned 4 December 2014.


McPherson’s presentation in Grass Valley, California on 20 November 2014 is embedded below. Big thanks to Ivey Cone.


Vincent Emanuele reviewed the Earth at Risk conference yesterday. Catch it here.

Nature Bats Last has its own YouTube channel, separate from McPherson’s channel. It’s here.


Catch McPherson here for an interview Friday, 19 December 2014 at 9:00 p.m. Pacific (midnight on the east coast). It’ll be archived, too.

Comments 138

  • Good post man. I have dealt with people in this country and others at all levels, from when I was a “poor student” to now, and I have observed a difference in their treatment of me based on how much they know about me or my family (not in country).

    In a more corrupt country, what matters is your pull or influence. The first question being asked “what does your father do?” In such countries, bribing or influence police is a way of life. I see it as a tax to be paid since the cops are underpaid.

    Here, it’s a bit different: the person who you’re dealing with at a low level is an intermediary and usually honest but human. If you have a bone to pick, you do it through the legal system. As anyone knows, with the right lawyers you can get away with a lot. So this is basically throwing money at the problem. Success is not guaranteed but if people know you can do this, they treat you with kid gloves.

    There’s probably something about power and relationships in there somewhere but since I eschew the concept of power over others, I don’t care to deal with others in this manner.

  • When you deal with an American middle class mindset that thinks that it is okay to taser an eight year old girl throwing a temper tantrum, that obedience to authority matters more than acknowledging racism and classism and all the other “isms” of our sick culture, then it nearly impossible to get them to see beyond that lens of privilege. I too am among the minority that thinks we would be a lot safer with fewer cops, and I do have more of a fear of the jackbooted thugs with badges than I do those considered “lawbreakers”. But then again, we have adherence to law as more important than justice, and the law favors and was made to support and prop up the machine that runs it.


  • Speaking of social violence, a line of thought I’m pursuing at the moment is turning out to be a bit heretical.

    It appears that a significant factor in keeping prehistoric human populations in balance with their local carrying capacity was the death rate from near-universal and highly lethal (in percentage terms) warfare.

    According to the archaeological and ethnographic evidence compiled by Lawrence Keeley in his book “War Before civilization”, the average death rate from warfare across a wide variety of non-state societies from bands to tribes and chiefdoms, was about 0.5% per annum. That would go a long way toward explaining the apparent balance between nature and humans over so many millennia. When resources got thin, we went to war and killed off enough people to re-balance the situation.

    I’m not terribly interested in the political causes of wars, aside from the fact that most of them are resource-driven. We are clever critters, and have few problems finding pretexts for warfare and other violence. I am most interested in the consequences of warfare. In the the prehistoric case an important consequence seems to have been long-term population stability.

    It’s as though humans could achieve harmony with nature only by fostering violent disharmony with other humans.

    For me, Lawrence Keeley (with support from other authors like archaeologist Steven A. LeBlanc) has, with one stroke, demolished two myths: the myth of the peaceful savage; and the myth that we somehow lived peacefully in harmony with nature before civilization came along.

    The truly heretical part of this line of thought is that those of us who value the rest of the biosphere for its own sake may be doing the future a disservice by working to reduce human violence still further. Instead, we might be better advised to find comfort in any increase in the rebalancing effects of human violence and warfare. It worked very well throughout most of our species’ history, after all.

  • “I don’t know what other ‘middle class’ amerikans see when they watch videos of police brutality and murder.”

    Making a guess, via my memories of growing up in a working class household in New York City in the ’60s, the response was “They are doing what they can to keep the jungle under control.” Deeply held feelings that all these “others” are simply savages who would go on a rampage of murder, rape and robbery if they weren’t constantly forced down. I really USED to think that if we were to drive through certain parts of New York or even take a subway ride through, that we’d be set on even during the day and harmed. Many people are living in psychotic paranoid mindsets, a lot more than many others suspect.

  • I saw this incredible video from Revolution News, “People in Berkeley speak truth to power.” Guy, if you could find this young person who is speaking I think he would make one hell of a interviewee.


    It’s really hard to be able to stand up to cops and be eloquent like he is. Here’s a video showing how cops can verbally dominate the situation:


  • We have one family member who is a law enforcement officer. She calls people of color that get killed “thugs”. The truth is that SHE is the thug. Hate to say it but here in Alabama almost all white males AND females are thugs. They wish all blacks were gone.

    Lynching will return one minute after the economy collapses and, if one, black person survives, I will be surprised.

    Oddly enough, in our nearest town, the white, one-eyed cyborg like police chief was forced to retire. He leaves 3-15. Good riddance. There was a coalition of mostly black individuals that got the job done, somehow.

    As you ALL know, it is a dark, dark future.

  • Paul,

    That justifies social violence, since all that matters to you is resource depletion and mechanical, involuntary slaughter to rectify it. No word on non-war birth/population control, or on using what is available, or on living within available means. Nothing on belief systems–the earth as mother v the earth as resource. Nothing on social ingenuity. How can it be scientifically accurate to discount such obvious value systems, or to treat humans simply as wound up machines predestined to act in one predictable way?

    No need to answer. I’m sure I know what you’ll say and the books you’ll cite to back it up, and those won’t impress me.

  • Good essay, the vintage terry!
    The genocide of other species also continues.
    Who are these monsters who could do this?
    latest press release from Sea Shepherd: :(


    December 8, 2014 — TOKYO — Sea Shepherd Conservation Society Senior Cove Guardian Leader Melissa Sehgal has been denied entry to Japan to document the brutal annual slaughter of dolphins in Taiji’s infamous cove.

    Sehgal’s entry denial follows a pattern of denials the Cove Guardians have experienced recently. Scott West, Sea Shepherd Director of Intelligence and Investigations, was also denied entry late last season, and several high profile veteran Cove Guardians have been denied entry this season. Other veterans have made it through and the campaign has continued undaunted.

    As the horrors continue in Taiji, it is clear why Japan is so intent on trying to keep Sea Shepherd’s Cove Guardians from showing the world what happens on their deadly shores.

    On Monday, December 8 (Japan time), a pod of approximately 50-60 striped dolphins was driven to the cove and netted in. Striped dolphins are known to put up a brave fight for their lives against the killers, so tarps were quickly raised so that the wild dolphins could not throw themselves onto the rocks in an attempt to escape.

    Given the considerable number of the striped dolphins and the fact that the pod included juveniles, the Cove Guardians initially believed that some of the dolphins might be driven back out to sea following the slaughter of the rest of their family. Juveniles and infants are often released at sea by the killers following a hunt – not out of kindness, but so that these small dolphins who will not produce much meat do not count toward the season’s quota. However, after the killers drove one portion of the pod to the back of the cove for slaughter, they returned to force the remaining dolphins – now swimming frantically and spy-hopping in the cove after witnessing the brutal killing of their family – to the shore to meet the same terrible fate. Every single last striped dolphin was killed.

    This family was the first striped dolphin pod to be captured and killed during the 2014-2015 season, as the killers have found mostly Risso’s dolphins since the hunt season began on September 1 of this year. This was the 20th pod of dolphins captured and killed in the cove this season. There have been 17 Risso’s pods, one pilot whale pod, one bottlenose pod and one striped pod that have met their demise in the cove since the start of the season on Sept 1 of this year. From those pods, a handful of individuals have been taken into captivity. These lucrative few, once sold to aquariums, are what fuel the continued capture and slaughter.

    For six months of each year – from September until March – entire family units, or pods, of dolphins and small whales at a time are driven into Taiji’s killing cove. Banger poles are hit against the side of the hunting boats to create a “wall of sound,” disorienting the sound-sensitive marine mammals and making it nearly impossible for them to escape the drive. Once netted into the cove, the dolphins and whales face brutal slaughter or a lifetime in captivity. In a drive just as stressful as the drive into the cove, remaining pod members — usually juveniles and infants — are driven back out to sea with little hope of survival on their own.


  • What seems to matter in any complex system is that you stay within the boundary conditions that keep the system moving towards the homeostasis you’re comfortable with. There’s a reason these systems are called chaotic. Any change that is able to magnify itself in an exponential manner (which is unpredictable ahead of time) will cause the system to move to a radically new dynamic equilibrium between the various feedbacks, as Guy illustrates with his list.

    How many species do we know of on this entire planet that go about regulating their population growth on their own, i.e., killing off members of their own species? It happens I believe, but it’s not the commonly used approach. Nonetheless I see no reason why it can’t be used as a means of moving towards homeostasis.

    Our value judgements are not relevant here IMO. What matters is whether the system is one stable state vs. another state. And there’s no reason to say any given state is “better” than any other except what works for us or other species. It doesn’t have to be peaceful, clean, etc. Look at what has happened over billions of years of evolution to create biological life on this planet, especially as it relates to the food pyramid. It is what it is, but I’d say it’s an example of a successful system overall, regardless of what organisms do to each other.

    That’s my two posts for the day. Rest on the forum up till tonight.

  • Well this is my second post for the day, and then I go back to forum posting as Amyb. I just wanted to add the link for Wren’s article in case anyone wants it: http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/2014/12/08/cove-guardian-campaign-leader-melissa-sehgal-denied-entry-to-japan-1651

    and I wanted to thank Artleads for asking the question I had as well: “How can it be scientifically accurate to discount such obvious value systems, or to treat humans simply as wound up machines predestined to act in one predictable way?”

    We are not “systems”..we are not “machines”..and we are not merely the product of evolution or upbringing, what I believe we are is part of the web of life on this planet, a part that has managed to really fuck up things for ourselves and all other living beings. I don’t know if that’s science, but I am pretty sure it’s a fact.

  • Artleads, I’m not discounting the value of birth control etc, except in the context of an admittedly provocative comment here.

    What was fascinating to me was the idea that in prehistoric times warfare played such an apparently major role in bringing our population into balance with the environment. This idea flies in the face of two prevalent myths – that our forebears were more peaceful than we are, and that they somehow lived in harmony with nature despite that peaceful nature.

    It is becoming more clear to me that we are anything but a peaceful speciexs, and that our capability for violence dwarfs what we see in modern societies. The implications of that aspect of our nature are unclear, but if we’re facing a global meltdown, it would be foolish to ignore them.

  • The following article exhibits so much simplistic, moronic, laughably idiotic bullshit that I thought some here might appreciate the diversionary chuckle. The beginning is excerpted below the link, skip the video as it is even more ludicrous.

    We need more babies! Seriously, this is a problem

    We just learned that the U.S. birthrate fell for the sixth straight year in 2013 to an all-time low.
    Pardon me for sounding a bit alarmist, but this is really bad news for our economy, our society, and all of civilization.
    Let’s start with the economy. I know a lot of us have been brainwashed into thinking that our natural and manufactured resources are shrinking. We’re often told that we have a choice of either radically reducing our consumption or our population or we’ll eventually run out of water, energy, and food.
    Excuse me, but this is hogwash.
    That’s because we heard the same thing in 1714, or 1814, and probably the year 10,000 B.C. And they were wrong then too.

    @ Jeff S. Says:
    December 11th, 2014 at 11:01 am

    Many people are living in psychotic paranoid mindsets, a lot more than many others suspect.

    While completely correct, that still just barely scratches the surface. Psychosis and paranoia are but two conditions of the cornucopia of mental illnesses afflicting way too many “humans” on this rock.

  • It is becoming more clear to me that we are anything but a peaceful speciexs, and that our capability for violence dwarfs what we see in modern societies.

    you wanna piece of ME? you wanna piece of ME, MAN? HUH? HUH? dooya?


    seriously, this place gives me the giggle fits sometimes.

    (well, dooya?)

    there are the surfaces of things, and there are the depths of things. these are always interacting, creating a variety of experience and outcomes – individual, cultural – across the ages. there is nothing mechanical about it, but there is a great deal of evolutionary energy behind it, swirling it all along – both on the surfaces of things, and in the depths of things.

  • swirling it right along… oohyah oh baby booyah

    violent humans they be dancin lovin fools

  • note – The implications of that aspect of our nature are unclear, but if we’re facing a global meltdown, it would be foolish to ignore them.

    what is “unclear” – into that depth is where one kind find the clarity to (urp) transcend whatever violent tendencies one may be personally contributing to the mix, and choose something else.

    what is clear – if one looks – is that if the violence that we are truly capable of does unfold (and looking at the resource depletion scenario, just by itself, we are going to guarantee the worst outcome here, based on what we know from past outcomes in similar scenarios) there is absolutely nothing to be done about it, except hope for a mercifully quick end, and face it with whatever inner resources are at one’s command.

    now – what the intermix of the depths and the surfaces will actually unfold, we will know fairly soon, and that will be that.

    (apologies for third)

  • Well, if it’s Jets Day, then…

  • Shep

    “We have one family member who is a law enforcement officer. She calls people of color that get killed “thugs”. The truth is that SHE is the thug. Hate to say it but here in Alabama almost all white males AND females are thugs. They wish all blacks were gone.”

    That hate and bigotry never went away. Why did anybody think it did? Is that because of undeveloped intuition?

    Was everybody too busy slurping up “progress” that they stopped fighting to educate bigots? Hiding their own bigotry in the process?

    Are those bigoted women too frightened and deprived to take a stand against their men? You don’t believe the women are leading this, do you?

  • @Robert
    Erik Mongrain – AirTap!: https://youtu.be/AbndgwfG22k

  • http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-30408022

    Global group of Catholic bishops call for end to fossil fuels

    Catholic bishops from around the world are calling for an end to fossil fuel use and increased efforts to secure a global climate treaty.


    “Hey yo padre! How ’bout you rein in ’em pedophile priests, redistribute YOUR wealth back to the poor, and get off the procreation bandwagon ya been drivin’ fer fuggin’ 2 millennia!!?”

    anonymous oil company exec

  • right. except that race is extremely relevent. directly in the perps being white and the victims being some other color dramatically often. not occassionally but factually and exponentially so. to deny that very salient point is inherently racist.
    that those in poverty are disproportionately POC is also a function of racist design, not a random series of unrelated and unfortunate events. this is very well documented.
    as far as the encroachment of police brutality into the white hegemony goes, yup. it’s a bitch.
    my 13 y.o. defines dystopia as “when white people get treated the same way we treat everyone else.”
    and under the latest detractors blurb, i have no idea if he is hetero, but he certainly is a Caucasian male.
    all around very disappointing slant.

  • @ Artleads,

    I hesitate to answer u. It is what it is.

    Are u agreeing with me?

  • From the forum:

    “I got embroiled in an online debate about the future of energy, in which the thread was shut down and archived, hidden from view,  because it made people feel bad. I was called “The Queen of the Cunts”, a moniker I now sport proudly.
    Guy says, “only Love remains”.
    Is it “Love” to tell people their children and grandchildren have no future? That Industrial Civilization is at an end? The people I encounter in daily life do not see it this way. I tried to indicate that people mustn’t assume many luxuries to be the norm going forward, and I was attacked like a worm amongst the chickens.
    Shut off fossil fuels tomorrow and billions of humans will die within a month. The bishops have no idea what they are wishing for.” -Lidia

    So… who to tell?
    At this point there are 2 groups I’m telling about NTHE….
    Group one – Those I love. I’m broaching the subject, to see whether they can go there and still remain sane.

    Group two – Those I hate. The ones who are truly guilty, the ones who should’ve known better, the ones who traded their souls and their planet for money. I just want them to know what they’ve done, because they do not deserve to die in peace.


  • The Japanese kept out Melissa Sehgal, but fortunately were unable to keep out Enola Gay or the Little Boy. Maybe they need a revisitation.

    “We are not “systems”..we are not “machines”..and we are not merely the product of evolution or upbringing”

    Quite correct. Those things are known as human beings, consisting of body-mind complexes, the bodies being gross and the minds being the subtle manifestations in a universe constrained by space – time – causation. Realisation is the recognition that there is neither an “I” nor a “not-I”, and consequently no “we”.

    “He who thinks this Self a killer and he who thinks it killed both fail to understand; it does not kill, nor is it killed.” BG 2:19

    The concept of “feedbacks” is valid when considered within a system. External constraints and goads, whether physical or through signalling mechanisms, are not feedbacks until viewed as internal to a system.

    Systems of matter organIsed by energy flows to increase availability and capacity of channels for those flows tend to proliferate in numbers and channel size until constrained by external (physical) limits or signals.

    External signals evolve to have their effects within (internal to) larger systems, where they can be termed feedbacks. The components of the larger system may then be viewed as “voluntarily” observing limits, but the larger system itself has its proliferation constrained by external limits or signals that are internal to a greater system. Failure to proliferate to the limits results in being elbowed out by another.

    Humans have defeated limits. Limits of extremity/limb design through tools. Limits on endosomatic energy through animals, wind, solar and hydropower; then fossil sunlight and fossil supernova energy (nuclear). Limits due to ecosystem diversity through monoculture of agriculture and animal husbandry.

    For every frog, several hundred to a few thousand of its siblings perished. With crustaceans and molluscs the number may run to millions. In mammals over a breeding lifetime the number may run to dozens. Prior to the advent of childhood immunisations and public health, it was the norm among humans (upto the early twentieth century) for an average of two children to survive to adulthood out of half a dozen or more.

    “Primitive” communities respected that which maintained them, the ecosystems in which they lived, just as today’s worship is for the Almighty Dollar. That does not mean they had the same respect for a competing “out-group”.

    Societies are constructed through vertical transactions enforced by coercive violence and the threat thereof. Communities are formed from horizontal interactions, very few of which are transactions. Community interactions are monitored, prescribed and proscribed by society if the community is subordinate to the society. In times of resource scarcity, resources needed to maintain community are commandeered by society with the concomitant expansion of society and the dismantling of community.

    Police and military are the leading edge of the machinery of society’s coercive violence. Courts of law are a cloak. A community solution to societal violence would be to have Eric Frein, a person with a proven track record, take care of Darren Wilson, Daniel Pantaleo, Timothy Loehman and Frank Garmback – and others.

    Nearly two times a week in the United States, a white police officer killed a black person during a seven-year period ending in 2012, according to the most recent accounts of justifiable homicide reported to the FBI. On average, there were 96 such incidents among at least 400 police killings each year that were reported to the FBI by local police.

    You’re Nine Times More Likely to be Killed by a Police Officer than a Terrorist

  • ‘Humans have defeated limits’

    Actually, no. They haven’t. They just thought they had for a while.

    ‘Limits to Growth was right. New research shows we’re nearing collapse

    Four decades after the book was published, Limit to Growth’s forecasts have been vindicated by new Australian research. Expect the early stages of global collapse to start appearing soon.’


  • Apology for third post


    I appreciate your stand on race. I just wish to add what I can to it.

    Since you are white, male, from the South, and don’t think like those you describe, why can’t some of them change to your way of thinking? Is there nothing you can do toward that end (even if it fails)?

    IF you decided to take such action, it would be counter productive not to distinguish between the sexes. The article below discusses domestic violence in AL. 64% of the reported victims are women, and I suppose a good number of the remainder are children. The article also has a quote toward the end about the Southern culture of submissiveness in women. Abused women dare not leave the relationship for fear of being killed. And I bet they’d get killed if they took a racial stand in opposition to their spouses’. But poor Southern white women are almost as oppressed as blacks; they just aren’t wantonly killed, since they procreate, cook, wash, iron, etc., for their males.

    So, if you don’t see the need to peel off some of those women from their mates, then it’s more likely that your dystopian future will materialize.


  • artleads’

    Since u seem to agree with my statement, I wonder what action u would prescribe? U live in the Alabama area, too?

    I think it is like the old saying,”You can take the boy out of the South, but you can’t take the South out of the boy.” This applies to women AND men. I am speaking of racism, not men vs. women.

    The lady I was referring too is one tough lady. She can hold her own against any man on earth so my point was really how racist these people are. This includes men and women. Believe me, they are deadly. Ain’t no way anyone is going to rape her unless they shoot her first but then, if they don’t, woe unto the evil-doer.

  • The police get away with murder: that’s nothing new.
    The US government sanctions torture: old hat.
    Wall Street gets the bill it wants passed: but of course.
    New smart phone coming out just before Christmas: TELL ME MORE!!!!

    Who needs authoritarian abuse when so many are willing to be enslaved?

  • It seems we keep circling around the same discussion. In any energy landscape, the preference is for lower energy than higher energy states or configurations. (As I wrote before, in terms of terminology, energy is always minimised, not maximised, since the lower it is, the better.)

    Entropy tends to go in the opposite direction. Life is defined by the the tension between these tendencies, with enthalpy slightly winning out. This is the tendency toward equilibrium or homeostasis.

    The above is basic textbook physics thermodynamics. I’ve yet to see a violation of this. But there’s more to life than thermodynamics: statistical mechanics as a field of study was devised to handle the very issues thermodynamics doesn’t concern itself with.

    However, the information content in today’s life forms is really due to the process of biological evolution. Here, not only is the energy state achieved under selection but the approach (and the meta approach, and meta-meta approach) or pathway used to achieve it is also under selection.

    The algorithm used here doesn’t matter as long as the lowest energy state is reached, but greedy algorithms aren’t efficient at navigating complex energy landscapes. They get trapped in local minima. However, if a system engages in some mountain climbing to get to a lower energy valley then that becomes selectively advantageous. This is why the end products of billions of years of evolution often adopt complex pathways that value long term gain over short term gain.

    Confounding this is evolutionary drift. Over time, evolution, which may initially select for something that finds the lowest accessible free energy, but over time will accumulate mutations that still do the same or similar functions (i.e., are fit) but move closer towards equilibrium between enthalpic and entropic contributions (we have observed this).

    Further confounding this is that in terms of evolution, what matters is what is fit in the context of a given environment. Fit doesn’t always mean lowest energy—sometimes a higher energy state is required for some function to occur so that is selectively advantageous. If everything were at its lowest energy state, nothing would happen. I’ve used the phrase that biologically relevant functional states are “energetically frustrated” and when the function is performed, they are “energetically satisfied” (terminology mine).

    So in sum, I’d say if there’s any preference for life to do anything, it is to tendecy to achieve homeostasis (and to develop approaches that will enable a system to achieve homeostasis). Thermodynamics, statistical mechanics, evolutionary history, and nonlinear dynamics all matter. Looking only at one aspect and ignoring the others makes for an incomplete picture. With complex adaptive systems, this equilibrium is achieved in a nonlinear fashion (long range correlations). Some of it is very much programmed (coded in the DNA and passed on from parent to offspring) and some of it is a mix of programming and environment. Feedbacks are a result of interactions with the environment usually but you can have internal and external feedbacks.

    Humans really go against the grain. My view is that as long as this persists, where we favour short term thinking over long term thinking, endless growth of material wealth, we will hit into what Limits to Growth detailed the year I was born.

  • Ram: I enjoy reading your posts but have a question about this homeostasis you brought up. It’s abundantly clear that we waste WAY too much energy in almost everything we do (start anywhere: food waste, our cars are inefficient, the military wastes billions, our homes are waste machines, the space program is wasteful, and the entire system of civilization we’ve created GUSHES excess energy), so the conclusion is that we’re heading for extinction due to being out of balance (koyaanisqatsi) with the very concept of which you speak. Could you explain further?

    Here’s an analogy to humanity on earth (to get the idea)

  • Some of the news stories from JJFH: (http://jumpingjackflashhypothesis.blogspot.com/)

    2014-12-10 – Methane hydrate deposits now dissociating off the US Northwest Coast

    Quote: “Researchers probe the oceans off the west coast and see signs of the meltdown of icy methane similar in size to the BP oil spill…”

    “Note: It was just a matter of time. Methane is erupting from deposits all over the planet now. As time goes on, the ancient anaerobic bacteria and archaea that produce hydrogen sulfide will colonize the methane seeps and increasing amounts of that methane will be turned into hydrogen sulfide, so we’ll end up first with large methane releases (occurring already) and as time goes on there will be increasing amounts of hydrogen sulfide bubbling up too. This is the ancient planetary extinction event that is upon us now and this is what killed off most life on the planet during the Permian-Triassic extinction event, also called ‘The Great Dying’. As a consequence, the human race is going to evacuate the surface of the Earth, if not voluntarily (by relocating) then it will happen involuntarily (by dying), or some combination of the two…”

    2014-12-10 – Hundreds of thousands of fish bubble up dead in Lake Bryant in Marion County (Florida)

    2014-12-10 – Large number of endangered grey seals washing ashore dead on Cornish beaches (Britain)

    2014-12-11 – Sperm whale found dead near the mouth of the Kelua River on the Odisha Coast (India)

    2014-12-10 – Man, 26, sickens and slumps over dead in vehicle at gas station in Cottage Grove (Minnesota)

    2014-12-10 – Soldier, man, 34, found dead in on-base house at Fort Bragg (North Carolina)

    2014-12-10 – Man, 24, found dead in creek half a mile from crashed pickup, in Rutherford County (North Carolina)

    2014-12-10 – College student, woman, 20, found dead in creek in Bemidji (Minnesota)

    2014-12-10 – Cruise ships dumped a billion gallons of sewage into the oceans in 2014

    Quote: “Cruise ships dumped more than a billion gallons of sewage into the ocean in 2014, much of it raw or poorly treated, an environmental group says.”

    “Note: That’s just great. A substantial amount of that sewage may now be turned into hydrogen sulfide by the ancient anaerobic bacteria and archaea in the oceans, which will then incinerate more of human civilization and kill more people and animals…”

    [and how much was dumped in 2013, 2012, . . .?]

    2014-12-10 – Catastrophic oil spill from oil tanker crash threatening endangered dolphins in the Sunderbans (Bangladesh)

    2014-12-10 – Vicious storm batters Ireland and Scotland

    [Read the rest. It’s all connected and related, the destruction we cause, set in motion by our insane existence, goes on every day without end until we’re all gone.]

    Ram: OH, I get it now – homeostasis is achieved when the Earth is a burned out cinder devoid of all life – like Mars, Venus and the other dead planets (as far as we know).

  • We need a higher representation of black and hispanic opinion on this blog. Privileged, lily white is not diverse enough and clouds the issue(s) with preconceived notions.

  • “We need a higher representation of black and hispanic opinion on this blog.”

    Here’s hoping you are out recruiting them now. And more left-handed people too. And please, get more red heads, but sexy ones who are not afraid to display their curves.

    What we really need is more privileged lily whites out teaching the lower classes what’s going on. It certainly is great being open-minded, liberal, and free thinking isn’t it? If only the blacks and Latinos would listen to me, everything would be okay.

    Now to put on Band Aid Christmas songs and really feel for Africa.

  • I apparently struck a nerve.

  • Not at all. I think we should collect black opinions like rare butterflies. We could have a contest and the first person who wrings in
    a death row inmate’s views on climate change gets to wear a halo for a whole month or something. It will be ever so thrilling!

    And there’s so many colorful cultures in South and Central America! Be the first to collect them all! My heart swells with pride just thinking about how noble this cause would be. I’m sure yours does too. My arm is already sore for patting myself on the back just thinking what a super duper cool and open person I am.

  • Shep

    “Since u seem to agree with my statement, I wonder what action u would prescribe? U live in the Alabama area, too?”

    It’s not up to me. I don’t live there. What do you believe you should do? You obviously rule out working with abused women. Do any other groups interest you?

  • i did not rule out a thing – u did and, yes. vigilantes. all else has failed so there is nothing else to do, but, i’m a pacifist so this leaves me unemployable and uninspired. u luv andy w type art. Si?

  • I posted this before at the end of another thread, but since further claims about The Myth of Savages appear again, I am spelling it out again. And let me say, nothing personal. Seriously. This is about that book and the claims that it leads to, and not about any persons.

    That Keely book is pure bullocks. There are no real “savages” except the brutes who came out of the dreary isle of England and their bastard progeny in the US, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. You can probably see many of them legally lynching minorities and Indigenous in Shep’s homeland, or mine further north. You can include much of colonizing Europe from Lisbon on out to the Urals too.

    Keely has the gall to call the Lakotah Sioux of 1300s AD as “Pre-Historic” …meaning that before the glorious white saviours arrived to give it to them, those so-called Savage Indigenous people didn’t have a history. Read that again – Keely says as late as 1300 AD that North American Indigenous were “Pre-Historic”. Before history. Meaning 20,00 – 30,000 years of archaeologic evidence for the existence of a culture like the Lakotah just wasn’t there. Not to even mention Lakotah’s and many others’ own historical narratives which go back that far. And that is the timescale of current records for recent archaeological findings for humans in the Americas, which now makes the Alaska/Siberia land bridge theory about as relevant as a baloney sandwich.

    Pre-historical baloney. Keely also openly says that references and citations are not of concern in that work, so there is no real way to know how much of his analysis is flight of fancy on the lines of that rather offensive and elitist “Pre-historical” mindset. The only real reference Keely offers are quotes from an earlier settler colonial academic source, and Keely flatly states of that source: “He loved war”. Meaning surely that no pro-war bias will inform his analysis?

    Not a mention in Keely from a single Indigenous perspective. Wild generalizations about so-called “primitives” without nary a single reference to exactly which group his is talking about – is is Arapahoe, Paiyute, Cheyenne, Shoshone, Navajo, Apache, Nez Perce? Who knows and who the hell cares according to Keely since they all are identically “Savage” and “Pre-Historic”. (??) (!!)

    Further, Keely stresses the importance of funding in his very opening paragraph of his preface – meaning who paid for this schlock? Why you very own Uncle Sam and the US government, who apparently don’t care much about citations and references in scholarly work that specifically designates the pre-Columbian holocaust era not as a legitimate historical period, but as uniquely ~pre-historic~, at the same time that the Chinese were on their 17th dynasty, and Rome was on it’s 194th Catholic pope.

    All this is to say that Keely’s conclusion, that all humans are inherently vicious, warlike and destructive – and therefore we just need to sit back and let them tear each other to shreds – is highly questionable and dubious. And I’m not buying it.

  • Everything you need to know ?!! hahaha funny
    Terence McKenna must have started this blog … Metaphorically speaking . And he is like 14 years dead now ?! Spoke these words way before that . Are we ever going to see “The End ” You certainly keep reminding myself to that ancient Irish toast “You maybe alive at the end of the world ” isn`t that a positive thing than ? I hope so !

  • Nothing much to do with the essay topic as such, other than collapse of ‘the empire’.

    A friend of mine noted that certain NZ ‘news’ media have stopped reporting oil prices. Too Black Swanish?

    For the moment the game goes on

    ‘Maori TV,

    11 December, 2014

    Six permits have been granted for onshore exploration while nine have been granted for offshore exploration.

    Three years ago off the coast of Brazil an oil spill occurred totalling 2,400 barrels. A disaster which occurred on the watch of oil company, Chevron. A company which was granted an exploration permit in New Zealand today.

    According to Chevron General Manager, Liz Schwarze, “We were able to shut off the source of the hydrocarbons very quickly and bring the response team so that there was no impact to human safety and no impact to the environment.”

    A total of 15 permits have been granted by the Government. Three of the largest permits have gone to Chevron off the East Coast of the North Island. Despite the disaster in Brazil the Minister says they weren’t subject to heavier scrutiny.

    Minister of Energy and Resources, Simon Bridges says, “I’m satisfied that the processes we have here mean we don’t get cowboys we get players that can satisfy us.”

    Ms Schwarze says, “We were approved to return to production last year, so we have learnt from that and bring that.”

    Chevron will work on the new permits alongside Statoil, which is continuing with its current permit in Northland-Reinga.

    Statoil has spent a year there already, however, is still faced with protest by local communities. This also resulted in a protest concert held over the weekend.

    According to Te Tai Tokerau MP Kelvin Davis, “The people of Northland are concerned at the speed these permits are being handed out.”

    Deputy President of Statoil, Pal Haremo says, “My strategy is to be open, learn and listen to the local communities.”

    The Government says job creation is one of the benefits for communities such as Northland, however, Statoil isn’t making any promises and says that’s a long way off.

    “I personally don’t think any jobs will come of this for the North”, says Kelvin Davis.

    A launch will be held in March next year for Block Offer 2015.’

    Yet the whisper is that Norway is deep trouble, unable to proceed with local projects let alone projects on the other side of the world.

    There was much discussion about what might happen if oil prices fell below $80. Then what might happen if they fell below $70. Then what might happen if they fell below $60.

    Crude Oil (WTI) USD/bbl. 57.92 -2.03 -3.39% Jan 15
    Crude Oil (Brent) USD/bbl. 61.98 -1.70 -2.67% Jan 15

    Very locally, the news is that keeping exorbitant rate rises under control will require closure of numerous council funded facilities and cancellation of events.

    The I-told-you-so moments are coming thick and fast, and the mood of the people is slowly changing. However, you’d never think that if you relied on the [corrupt] media, which tell us confidence is high and it will all come right next year. And many people are incredibly slow to accept the truth, especially if they have had no personal dealings with the minions of the empire.

    As anyone who reads this blog regularly knows, I am extremely suspicious anything reported in ‘newspapers’. However, a few days ago it was reported that the nice young chap (whom I know personally)who was given the run-around and abused by the police had half his complaints to the Police Complaints Authority upheld. That is quite something, since we have come to expect everything to be whitewashed and covered up.

    Interestingly, the councillor mentioned in the item with respect to assault is now the mayor.


    The cover-ups continue, as they must for the empire to be maintained.

  • I experienced yet another:

    Most people are




    moment yesterday.

    Details not necessary. It’s just that I haven’t said it recently.

    I do keep forgetting it myself and try to help people. It’s that teacher thing that Guy talks about. I must continue to work on behaviour modification. ‘They’ do not want to know and insist on being ignorant and continuing to behave stupidly.

  • Do you think the day will come when a crowd rushes a group of cops brutalizing a helpless individual, cuts their heads off, puts them on poles and parades them through the city?

  • As far as I am aware, the indigenous peoples of the New World with any written records were in Soutn America, the Incas and the Mayas.

  • Wester, thank you, again, for taking the time to inject some truth into the comments, again. I cannot ever express how grateful I am for individuals like yourself. If not for you and individuals like you on this website, I couldn’t participate at all. I have participated more recently than ever, and enjoyed for the first time. So, thank you.

    As for me, why anyone is attempting to debunk a myth that has been argued against since before the mid 19th century, but apparently is all new every generation, speaks for itself. The obvious nonsense, the creative slants, the insanity of the culture is so easy to see in this one argument, that for some reason every new convert to the nonissue of the “noble savage myth” finds it incredibly profound.

    “I beg to say that I have not the least belief in the Noble Savage. I consider him a prodigious nuisance and an enormous superstition. … His virtues are a fable; his happiness is a delusion; his nobility, nonsense. We have no greater justification for being cruel to the miserable object, than for being cruel to a WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE or an ISAAC NEWTON; but he passes away before an immeasurably better and higher power [i.e., that of Christianity] than ever ran wild in any earthly woods, and the world will be all the better when this place knows him no more.”

    Charles Dickens 1853

    Now, of course, it isn’t “Christianity” that is superior to that non-noble savage anymore. That gave way to “progress.” Now that “progress” is not looking all that intelligent, and certainly not “progressive,” but more like depraved plunder that has murdered the planet, well, now that mythical noble savage is still an issue and serves as a foil to prove how all people destroy all the life around them, and always have. The “Noble Savage myth” has been useful for well over 160 years, and no doubt will continue to be for a certain sector of the American population. It’s a kind of religion, apparently, for some people, and it answers all questions concerning someone else’s issues. Go figure.

    Yeah. That’s why the Western Hemisphere was such a beautiful, healthy, abundant land when those Christians-turned progressmakers-turned scientists-evolutionists – now great understanders of all people in all eras everywhere, because they say so.

    I really love what Guy is saying lately about “people don’t understand.” No shit. We are way over impressed with ourselves, almost as if we think we really are God.

    That “noble savage myth” blather doesn’t prove anything except that pride based insanity gets successfully recycled time and again, some lies are as old as time, but we all knew that.

  • Paul Chefurka,

    Nice summary of some of Keeley’s important points!


    Regarding your most recent December 12th, 2014 at 11:12 am comment, I started to respond to your similar earlier comment a couple of weeks ago but decided against it. Since you have reposted it, I will now respond. Why? Because it contains so many blatantly misleading and/or false claims about Lawrence Keeley’s book War Before Civilization, which it seems obvious you have not actually read, certainly not in any careful, thoughtful way. Or perhaps you “read” it, but did not comprehend it; perhaps you simply did not understand what you read of it.

    You wrote: “That Keely book is pure bullocks. There are no real ‘savages’ except the brutes who came out of the dreary isle of England and their bastard progeny in the US, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa.” Nowhere in either Keeley or LeBlanc’s books do I recall either of them referring to early humans as “savages” as many of your comments suggest. (If either of them does, will you kindly provide page references?) You appear not to grasp that the subtitle of War Before Civilization, “The Myth of the Peaceful Savage”, refers to an old MYTH: something Keeley devotes much of the book to demonstrating NOT TRUE: the exact OPPOSITE of what you insist that he writes (and demonstrating your not having actually read or comprehended the book).

    You wrote: “Keely has the gall to call the Lakotah Sioux of 1300s AD as “Pre-Historic” …meaning that before the glorious white saviours arrived to give it to them, those so-called Savage Indigenous people didn’t have a history. Read that again – Keely says as late as 1300 AD that North American Indigenous were “Pre-Historic”. Before history. Meaning 20,00 – 30,000 years of archaeologic evidence for the existence of a culture like the Lakotah just wasn’t there.” Two common definitions of prehistoric look something like this: 1. Belonging to or existing in times before recorded history; 2. Of or relating to times before written history. In your assertion here you fail to notice and understand the meaning of a critical concept related to the definition of prehistoric: the idea that WRITTEN, RECORDED evidence serves as an identifying characteristic in various people’s histories. “Prehistoric” simply DOES NOT mean that prehistoric people “did not have a history” as you have written! The word prehistory just serves as a time and process marker in describing the history of a group. Use of the word does NOT suggest any kind of ignoring or discounting earlier history, nor does it amount to any kind of insult, as you obviously have characterized it—and as wish others to believe.

    You wrote: “Not to even mention Lakotah’s and many others’ own historical narratives which go back that far. And that is the timescale of current records for recent archaeological findings for humans in the Americas, which now makes the Alaska/Siberia land bridge theory about as relevant as a baloney sandwich.” This comment just does not make any sense, certainly not for anyone who has actually read Keeley or LeBlanc. They both refer to a good bit of ethnographical work related to a number of indigenous cultures. Your insisting that Keeley’s not mentioning ethnography related to the Lakotahs, in particular, “…now makes the Alaska/Siberia land bridge theory about as relevant as a baloney sandwich” does not make any sense at all.

    You wrote: “Pre-historical baloney. Keely also openly says that references and citations are not of concern in that work, so there is no real way to know how much of his analysis is flight of fancy on the lines of that rather offensive and elitist ‘Pre-historical’ mindset. The only real reference Keely offers are quotes from an earlier settler colonial academic source, and Keely flatly states of that source: ‘He loved war”. Meaning surely that no pro-war bias will inform his analysis?’” Will you kindly provide a page reference for your claim that presumably “…Keely also openly says that references and citations are not of concern in that work…”? I do not recall reading any such statement. Meanwhile, he provides 20 pages of notes to references annotated throughout all chapters of the book, as well as a 14-page bibliography. I wonder “Why would Wester write something so blatantly not true?” The only reasonable answer that comes to mind for me comes from reading Paul Ekman’s book, Emotions Revealed: “Perhaps he finds himself extremely angry and in a ‘refractory state’ related to that anger such that information gets severely filtered through the emotion.” I don’t presume to know; I just wonder about the motivation for writing things so blatantly not true.

    You wrote: “Not a mention in Keely from a single Indigenous perspective. Wild generalizations about so-called ‘primitives’ without nary a single reference to exactly which group his is talking about – is is Arapahoe, Paiyute, Cheyenne, Shoshone, Navajo, Apache, Nez Perce? Who knows and who the hell cares according to Keely since they all are identically ‘Savage’ and ‘Pre-Historic’. (??) (!!)” It seemed to me that Keely provided many indigenous perspectives, as LeBlanc does, so this statement amounts to nothing more than a misplaced, highly emotional, angry rant, making it clear again that you have not actually read the book. And, of course, neither Keeley nor LeBlanc refer to early humans as “savages” as you claim. If I have this wrong, please provide me with page references.

    You wrote: “Further, Keely stresses the importance of funding in his very opening paragraph of his preface – meaning who paid for this schlock? Why you very own Uncle Sam and the US government, who apparently don’t care much about citations and references in scholarly work that specifically designates the pre-Columbian holocaust era not as a legitimate historical period, but as uniquely ~pre-historic~, at the same time that the Chinese were on their 17th dynasty, and Rome was on it’s 194th Catholic pope.” Wrong again, Wester. The first paragraph of the Preface says nothing about funding. On the other hand, he does discuss funding in the longish, second paragraph of the Preface. Here, among other things he discusses two unsuccessful proposals—unsuccessful apparently because “My research proposal claimed that Darion’s defenses indicated that this Neolithic frontier was a hostile one and predicted that excavations at nearby sites would reveal similar fortifications. The archaeologists who reviewed these proposals could not accept the defensive nature of the Darion ‘enclosure’ and therefore could not recommend funding a project predicated on what they regarded as an erroneous interpretation. A third proposal was successful only after I rewrote it to be neutral about the function of the Darion ditch-palisade, which was referred to as an ‘enclosure’ rather than as a fortification. In other words, only when the proposal was cleansed of references to that archaeological anathema, warfare, was it acceptable to my colleagues.” Continuing one sentence into the next paragraph: “Without new funding, our excavations at four other Early Neolithic sites soon documented that two of them had also been fortified.” Meanwhile, the funding referred to here, from the U.S. National Science Foundation, relates to only one project. The book itself received funding largely from a fellowship at the University of Illinois at Chicago’s Institute for the Humanities in the company of scholars Bruce Calder, Jody Enders, Peter Hale, Mae Henderson, and Jim Schultz from UIC’s departments of history, French, art history, English/African-American studies, and German respectively. This may amount to “schlock” to you, but it does not to me, nor to many others.

    You wrote: “All this is to say that Keely’s conclusion, that all humans are inherently vicious, warlike and destructive – and therefore we just need to sit back and let them tear each other to shreds – is highly questionable and dubious. And I’m not buying it.” Nothing that I have read by either Keely or LeBlanc suggests that either of them comes to any such “conclusion”. If I have this wrong, please provide me with page references regarding this.

    Regarding LeBlanc’s book, Constant Battles, if you will (1) send me your shipping address at bud.nye@gmail.com and (2) promise actually, carefully to READ the book and consider what the author writes, not just skim it quickly with a highly biased, clear intention of finding out-of-context statements in order to write an emotion-based, negative review, I will have a copy of it sent to you. If, after actually reading the book with some thought, you then wish to write a review that includes negative comments, that would of course seem fine, but writing a review that asserts that an author makes statements and claims that he or she does not make only misleads people and does not serve any useful purpose. In writing such a review, most of us would find it extremely helpful if you would provide actual, brief quotes of the author’s points that you agree or disagree with, including a brief explanation of why you agree or disagree.

    If Keeley, LeBlanc, and related others actually wrote in the ways that you claim they do, I would enthusiastically AGREE with you about them! But they do not write in those ways, and so I strongly disagree with your vicious, near-libelous misunderstandings, misinterpretations, and misrepresentations, and I refuse to support your malicious writing about them by remaining passively silent.

  • Bud,

    There many books written with bias all the time. Simply, by intuition, I can discredit Keely et.al. by reading Wester’s comments.

  • Bud, once again I find myself in violent agreement on every point. Thank you for doing the heavy lifting.

  • @ Kirk Hamilton Says:
    December 12th, 2014 at 3:55 pm

    Q: “…” (see referenced comment, above)

    A1: No, no, never, never, uh, uh, uhhh!

    A2: Not gonna’ happen, not at this juncture, read my lips.

    A3 (paraphrasing): Now wouldn’t that be convenieeent?! Could it be, I don’t know, maybe, um… Satan?!!

    As long as the mindlessly clueless (cluelessly mindless??) remain distracted with the current/next “gizmo” which they are convinced they MUST have, and no idea why anyone should have it, your expectation(?) will remain unfulfilled. “‘We’ are not to reason why, we must just do or die… Kneel before Zod!” After all, how do you think nitwits like M. Bachmann, J. Inhofe, L. Gomert, H. Reid, M. McConnell, B. Obama etc., etc. get into “elected office” in the first place? No need to “abandon hope,” that expression of the “human condition” has been MIA and/or compromised for the last several decades.

    Otherwise, I must PROTEST… the pseudo-captcha “questions” have become WAY TOO simple. WTF?!?!?!?!

  • ‘The truly heretical part of this line of thought is that those of us who value the rest of the biosphere for its own sake may be doing the future a disservice by working to reduce human violence still further. Instead, we might be better advised to find comfort in any increase in the rebalancing effects of human violence and warfare. It worked very well throughout most of our species’ history, after all.’

    careful what u wish for, paul c.! not much doubt in my mind that war and ‘civil’ violence shall very likely play a large role in ‘correcting’ the problem of human population overshoot. be lots of suicide too and being on the run. no fun. gonna b hell to pay.

    Kai Middleton, thanks for posting those facebook videos yesterday. the second one, the one in which a couple of complete asshole cops harassed, coerced, and psychologically abused a couple of poor young men guilty of the crime of being in a ‘bad’ neighborhood at the wrong time (when’s a good time to be in a ‘bad’ neighborhood?!) for 15 minutes, before letting them go, reminded me of a couple of similarly unpleasant past encounters with asshole cops in my firsthand experience. harassed detained disrespected. the first time i was dumb/naive enough to think i could just walk away. wrong choice to make in a police state. cost me 3 days in a hellish over crowded city jail. (another time, i was accosted for appearing out of place in a ‘good’ neighborhood!) when/if confronted, ya gotta swallow a big fat helping of humble pie, stay cool, hope for the best, be ready for the worst. of course, it’s best to avoid ‘bad’ neighborhoods, appearing out of place, and cops, if u can. for those who have the misfortune of living all their life in a ‘bad’ place, especially those with enough intelligence/sanity to perceive their surreality, it must be hell.

    ‘I too am among the minority that thinks we would be a lot safer with fewer cops, and I do have more of a fear of the jackbooted thugs with badges than I do those considered “lawbreakers”.’ -amy pike

    of course many if not a large majority of ‘criminals’ are harming no one. coercing no one. policing is inherently coercive and at times necessarily violent. in the ‘bad’ neighborhoods of police states, the coercion and violence is blatantly abusive and seemingly relentless.

    here’s a lengthy, interesting, and informative treatise on the origins of modern police, set heavily within the context of class exploitation, conflict, and control:


    thanks to ram, wren, and others who wrote complimentary/constructive comments. as often happens, i’ve fallen behind on reading them. sorry. there’s too much to learn/do and not enough time.

  • Shep,

    Your comment that “There (sic) many books written with bias all the time. Simply, by intuition, I can discredit Keely et.al. by reading Wester’s comments” suggests that not only have you (also) not read the books under discussion by Keeley and LeBlanc, but you did not read my most recent, long December 12th, 2014 at 5:00 pm comment as well; or if you did read my comment, you obviously did not understand it.

    I find it fascinating, but not at all surprising, that so many people so often work so hard to turn friends—people who support them—into enemies. To me, this says volumes about the power of emotions quickly and easily to overwhelm and displace our evolutionarily new and relatively weak tendencies toward rational thinking and behaving.

    Again, if Keeley, LeBlanc, and related others actually wrote in the ways that you claim they do, I would enthusiastically AGREE with you about them! But they do not write in those ways. They do not write the things you attribute to them and so I strongly disagree with your vicious, essentially libelous misunderstandings, misinterpretations, and misrepresentations, and I refuse to support your malicious writing about them by remaining passively silent. (Unfortunately, Guy frequently has to put up with this kind of blatant misunderstandings, misinterpretations, and misrepresentation, probably often qualifying legally as libel and slander.)

  • Hey Bud,

    Hate to tell u but I think you are a fraud. You sure do act like it.

    In other words, Wester is all wrong?

    Come on dude!

  • ” u luv andy w type art. Si?”

    Pop Art, yes. I like this guy best


  • There are fewer birds and other life forms. Few notice. This disaster has been normalized. Pain and torture, of others… from shell and womb, normalized to boredom. Memories extinguished. Masses living only in the shortness of this moment, TV style. Flitting from scene to scene and forgetting, immediately. Time shrinking into nothingness. All upsetting comparative references from the past… hell… any talk at all during the show is taboo. Punishable by ostracism and substantially worse. Without past references the disaster dissolves into absurdity and invisibility. Discussion rendered impossible. Adrift in an indistinguishable, ever vanishing moment.

    This killing severs the connective tissues of the past, so in this killing, no awareness of the dying occurs. As our own predator, we’ve frozen ourselves into numbed prey. Natural numb mercy perverted into a shrill feedback of pain. Frozen and tortured by our own menace. Almost clever, certainly diabolic – and fully convinced everything is normal. Nothing to see here anymore, where he who has forgotten the past has been condemned.

    The ouroboros is shrinking, consumed to the vanishing point. Reduced to total amnesia.

    Once upon a time there were many birds and other life forms.

    I emit hoarse screams into an echoless void.

  • Thanks to Wester, oldgrowthforest, Red Fox and many others for their voices here. I deeply appreciate the pushing back against the ever present lies of the insane dominant culture. I suppose I will have to copy and paste this in the future as we rehash the same nonsense over and over and over again here, well at least until the SHTF.

  • logspirit…I notice. and that noise you hear isn’t an echo..that other scream is mine..

    and please forgive this third post, but thought this particularly relevant to VirginTerry’s excellent essay and the comments in regards to it.

    “There are no frills to be found at http://www.killedbypolice.net. The site is just a simple spreadsheet. The information it contains, though, is invaluable. It is a list of every single person documented to have been killed by police in the United States in 2013 and 2014. There are links to a media report for every single death, as well as their names, ages, and when known, sex and race.

    The site is so valuable because, as we’ve noted previously, there is no reliable national database for keeping track of the number of people killed by police each year. The FBI tracks homicides by law enforcement officers, but participation is voluntary, and many agencies don’t participate. As I noted last week, Eric Garner’s death at the hands of a New York Police Department won’t show up in the FBI’s statistics for 2014 because the state of New York does not participate in the program.

    The FBI’s statistics for 2013 say that law enforcement officers killed 461 people that year. Killedbypolice.net apparently got its start last year. Using their system of monitoring by news report, they have calculated that police actually killed 748 people between May and December. That’s 287 more than the FBI reports for the whole year.

    And for 2014, which still has a couple of weeks left, the site has reported 1,029 people have been killed by police. That’s about a 30 percent increase over last year, though with four-month gap at the start of 2013 (measuring 25 percent of the year), it’s possible the numbers would be much closer if we had January through April. Even with the FBI’s broken numbers, we know that 2013 marked a two-decade high in killings by police.

    Neither the site nor its Facebook page indicates who is responsible for compiling this information, and they’re protecting their identity by hosting the site through GoDaddy. We can’t talk to whoever is responsible for this database about how or why they started it and how much effort it is to keep track of this information. Here is a page for people to submit information to help improve the quality of the database.”


  • shep –

    you think Bud is a fraud? that is rather too strong, I have to say. as much as I side with Wester and ogf on this one, I don’t see Bud doing anything here except trying to present and defend a sincere position.

    I’ve started reading the excerpts of Keeley’s book that Google has, and so far I am not impressed. the ideas do not seem to me to be articulated in a terribly strong way – it seems a rather “strung together” thing – much more of a grab bag, than something that feels tight, at all.

    and for the life of me, I can’t get over the feeling that it was published in 1896 rather than 1996 – it just feels too seriously outdated in its language and approach to be anything like current scholarship.

    BUT- all that said, there *is* a sincere argument there, and it doesn’t seem helpful to go ad hominem, when I think the argument itself can be brought down fairly easily.

    AND – something else Bud just said really resonated with me:

    To me, this says volumes about the power of emotions quickly and easily to overwhelm and displace our evolutionarily new and relatively weak tendencies toward rational thinking and behaving.

    seriously, it is vastly underappreciated just what kind of damage we can do to ourselves, and our surroundings, with emotion run amok, and how quickly this damage can be wrought. Bud is obviously a rationalist, and tilts rather too far over in that direction sometimes for my personal taste, but I would much rather be “in the lifeboat” with an over-rationalist that with an over-emotionalist – I wouldn’t even take a second to decide.

    it can take just a moment or two of calm thinking to find something useful in a stressful situation, where a moment or two of extreme emotion can turn destructive and deadly instantly.

    this all gets to what I briefly mentioned above – looking for ways to transcend violent tendencies in ourselves. these tendencies can come in all kinds of little, seemingly trivial chunks, but they tend to add up to something horrible and tragic, sooner or later – not talking NTE here, just talking about the power to turn friends into enemies, and potential strengths into fear and weakness.

  • mo flow, that is a very good post and I agree with your sentiments wholeheartedly.

    As I wrote before, I think the focus should be on points/arguments, not on people or personalities. How or what a person is is completely irrelevant to an argument being made. Yet people are focussing on each other rather than what is being said, and the thing is that none of us really know each other. Everyone is only seeing what we present to the Internet. You don’t even know if the same person is responding under a given name each time.

    In any event, I think the real issue is what actions destabilise an a complex system from its current trajectory and what actions don’t (in this case, the relevant complex system is our entire planet, the encompassing one). Our value judgements on these actions don’t matter. What we consider morally/ethically harmful if not magnified exponentially may not be a problem. And what we think is morally/ethically okay magnified exponentially may cause destability. What matters is what works to keep the system going in perpetuity and then we can worry about the quality of life we’ll have of such a system when we manage to identify the boundary conditions that keep it stable for this purpose and in this context.

    Stability is dynamic, relative, and long term, measured in hundreds of millions or billions of years. The kind that archaea, bacteria, and plantae have already achieved, and some members of the animal kingdom as well. These are evolutionary success stories. We are not learning enough from them. In this regard, Limits to Growth says it as well and as simply as could be said (there have been better models, better fits, but the conclusions are fundamentally the same). I’ve yet to see an argument that is better than that in a fundamental way as to why we’re looking at NTHE and while it doesn’t provide much detail since it is a simple model, I think once you try to get into the detail, there are no simple answers.

    There is some void I think humans are trying to fill, and they are being convinced they could fill it via material things, and this has been feeding on itself exponentially. We should have heeded the warning signals from the feedbacks but we’ve largely ignored them. Why? Perhaps as illustrated in this thread, the believe that we could transcend SOME limits of evolution gave us the chutzpah to assume we could transcend ALL limits. I don’t think this is true either (i.e., this thinking isn’t enough to destabilise the entire system) but it’s a thought.

    The question of being unable to maintain stability in the context of a given complex system I don’t think is about direct physical violence or some innate genetic or biological trait unique to humans but rather in the top down organisation of our interactions (its presence itself). In my experience with observing other biological complex systems, and in my simulations of such systems, top down tinkering does not work better than random tinkering, systems that perpetuate arbitrarily are rare under any circumstances, and the few such systems that do show up figure out what tinkering is needed as it is needed. The end products of a long, massively parallel, recursive, and modular evolutionary processes we see today are evidence of this, and I don’t think or feel we’re “going with the flow.” And here I am integrating both my emotion and my rational thinking as much as I can (which I think is severely lacking—in general, dualistic thinking has been exploited by the exploiters):

    When I am outside in nature, I feel at peace. The more pristine it is, the better I feel. I’m know some/most/all? others feel the same way also. So why have we made the choices that put us on this trajectory? Did we really have any agency and if so, how much (I think very little, actually—Limits to Growth came out when I was born). I do believe something has gone awry in the way we interact with each other on average IMO. I *believe* the problem is modern capitalism based on material things and its worldwide expansion. Who made these choices? Why? Were they aware of the consequences?

    Overall, I think this group of people hit upon the major issues as well as any where else I’ve come across and that is saying a lot.

  • to anyone,

    People who come on here to denigrate people of color based on other peoples’ work, I consider frauds. Stuff is written all the time that is nothing but pomp and circumstance based on their twisted views. For an extreme example, simply go to a presidential library and listen to the drivel. Clearly, people that disparage other people that are not like them, need to shut up instead of parroting some other person’s prejudices. This is just going along because they bolster your own wrong headed thoughts. If you don’t walk in the other person’s shoes, don’t criticize. Just listen and try to figure-out what is really going on inside yourself and where you can possibly be wrong.

  • Regarding what mo flow posted about “looking for ways to transcend violent tendencies in ourselves”:

    Any creature, human or otherwise, that isn’t aware (understand) of the lurking reptile inside, will likely find itself caught in its jaws. That isn’t pretty. Count to 10 and wait for the reptile to slink back into the slime.

  • Kirk asks: “Do you think the day will come when a crowd rushes a group of cops brutalizing a helpless individual, cuts their heads off, puts them on poles and parades them through the city?”

    No, I think a day will come that people will timidly accept whatever falls down upon them as long as it doesn’t endanger their paycheck.
    I think that outrage will be well managed and if there is any chance of it spreading and becoming larger, the media will suddenly shift focus onto something else so no one in a general population is aware of what’s going on. I think the government will do whatever it takes to keep the top money makers well fed and protected while the masses are given crumbs, sent to war, made fearful of their neighbors and made numb with repeated assaults to their time and energy so the only thing the government has to really “worry” about is a couple of angry voices on an obscure blog somewhere.

    By the time the people “rise up” we’ll be so far down the chute to destruction it won’t make a lick of difference.

  • H/T to Bud Nye, Paul Chefurka, mo flow, dairymandave and Grant Schreiber.

    and for tvt, one of the NBL old-timers, a capitalisation and punctuation exercise:

    he helped his uncle jack off the mule every day

  • Grant-Absolutely, the cops, and just about everyone with a regular paycheck will do whatever is necessary to feed their family. It’s a process every bit as effective as wearing a shock collar that can deliver punishment whenever you step out of line. It’s all about fear, the ultimate social control and it will dominate human behavior right to the end. Maybe that’s partly why society seems so unconsciously focused on self destruction, a life of shame has to wear one down. Guy is a great example of how to break free successfully.

    Doing The ‘Right’ Thing

    Don’t let social controls
    destroy the very nature of your soles.
    Be at and within a universe of peace,
    true to Yourself you’ll find a release,
    through loving and kindly goals.

  • Grant: I agree, and think we’re already “there” (“so far down the chute to destruction it won’t make a lick of difference). ‘They’ probably already have a ‘plan’ to disband/render obsolete the police/military/homeland security apparatus before it descends on ‘them’ too.

    Isn’t it a shame that even if a peaceful tribe exists, as long as there are aggressive tribes (races) that use violence to advance their interests nearby, they too would have to become violent just to defend themselves?

    couple items you may not have seen on the mainstream news lately:

    2014-12-11 – Deadly fire erupts in underground parking garage at high-rise in Dallas (Texas), thousands evacuated, 3 killed

    Quote: “Three construction workers are dead and three other people received hospital treatment after a fire erupted in a downtown Dallas high-rise, prompting the evacuation of thousands of office workers from the building. Dallas Fire Rescue spokesman Jason Evans said fire-rescue workers found the men in basement of the 50-story Thanksgiving Tower. They were in the thermal storage tank that’s part of the heating, ventilating and air conditioning unit beneath the building. Evans says the preliminary belief is that the 10 a.m. Thursday fire was electrical in nature because of the thick smoke it gave off, but the cause and ignition point remain undetermined.”

    “Note: Just like all the other underground electrical explosions and fires that have been occurring, except this time it happened to be under a building instead of under a street…”

    2014-12-11 – Underground electrical fire breaks out in coastal Manhattan (New York), subway transit disrupted

    2014-12-11 – Cruise ship ‘Insignia’ bursts into flame while docked at the island of St. Lucia, 3 killed

    Quote: “A crew member and two contractors died Thursday when a fire broke out aboard a luxury cruise ship docked at the eastern Caribbean island of St. Lucia, officials said. Some 650 passengers aboard the Oceania Insignia were evacuated safely and the remainder of the cruise was cancelled, Oceania Cruises said in a statement.”

    2014-12-11 – School bus bursts into flame on street near Rock River bridge in Rockford (Illinois)

    Quote: “The back of a Rockford school bus burst into flames Thursday afternoon on Kishwaukee Street near the Morgan Street Bridge.”

    2014-12-11 – School bus bursts into flame on I-94 in St. Croix County (Wisconsin)

    “Note: These are the 9th and 10th school buses to burn in December and the 147th and 148th school buses to burn since May 1…”

    2014-12-11 – Man, 49, burns to death in burning van near Brookwood (Alabama)

    2014-12-11 – Rail car explodes inside building at business near Atchison (Kansas), several injured

    2014-12-11 – Union Square hit by huge transformer explosion in coastal San Francisco (California)

    2014-12-11 – Plastics factory, shoe factory and transport company destroyed by massive inferno in coastal Zhejiang (China)

    2014-12-11 – Twelve parked vehicles burst into flame between 4 AM and 7 AM in Castlefield, High Wycombe (Britain)

    2014-12-11 – Gas tanker ship ‘DL Calla’ hit by explosion and fire near coastal Kuala Terengganu (Malaysia), 2 killed, 2 injured

    2014-12-11 – Boat bursts into flame just before midnight while parked at marina in coastal Chesapeake Beach (Maryland)

    2014-12-11 – Boat bursts into flame near Saul Junction Marina (Britain), on the Gloucester and Sharpness Canal

    2014-12-11 – Car bursts into flame while parked in carport, second car and carport destroyed too, on Lake Elmo Drive in Billings (Montana)

    2014-12-11 – HVAC unit bursts into flame at Holiday Inn in Raleigh (North Carolina)

    2014-12-11 – Passenger plane makes emergency landing after ‘loud bang’ and landing gear problem, in coastal London (Britain)

    2014-12-11 – Huge number of fish dying in Laguna Blanca (Argentina)

    2014-12-11 – Man, 28, goes missing, shows back up naked except for boots, in Schoharie County (New York)

    2014-12-11 – Large section of roof collapses at grocery store in coastal San Jose (California)

    2014-12-11 – Large building partially collapses in Holyoke (Massachusetts), entire city block evacuated

    2014-12-11 – Building partially collapses, parapet falls off onto street, in Portland (Oregon)

    2014-12-11 – Bridge collapses, dumps car into water, in Milburn (Canada), on Prince Edward Island, sinkhole opens separately

    [all news stories selected from an as-usual too-long list @ JJFH]



    Will the CIA torture report cause the masses to wake up to 9/11 truth? We can only hope


    One problem with this 9/11 backdrop ‘war on terror’ narrative is that long after the war in Afghanistan seemed like it should have been over, the war (or more correctly, the occupation) mysteriously and illogically continues without missing a beat. Even as humanity has witnessed 13 years of a “war” with literally no evidence of a war, the “war” continues. That’s right, for over 13 years, while the CIA torture program rolls on fully implemented, no one has ever produced, authenticated and validated video proof of a war in Afghanistan showing the opposition clearly firing at U.S. troops in a war-like scenario and sustaining themselves in the heat of battle. It’s been over 13 years and yet there is still no clear-cut footage showing the Al Qaeda tanks, artillery and grunts running around fighting hard against their U.S. enemies. It’s been 13 years, where is this footage??

    Another problem with the war on terror narrative is that humanity has long woken up to the fake terror and long-term (U.S.-Israeli/PNAC) Middle East plans. With the help of the alternative media, citizen journalists, independent media and investigative journalists, expansions of government engineered synthetic terrorism has been fully exposed. Thanks to the U.S./Israeli/NATO ongoing Middle East aggressive ambitions exemplified by the creation, arming and funding of ISIS and their terror partners (FSA, Al-Nusra), the continued engineered war on terror is now fully exposed to the world.

    Consequently, looming in the background of this most recent revelation of CIA torture and public indignation over Bush and Cheney war crimes, is the years of lies and how much the 9/11 official story meme has fallen apart since 2001. No longer does the story fit into the reality we now experience. From the Bin Laden death hoax and all the secrecy surrounding this event that never quite happened the way U.S. officials and the media say happened, to the long list of oddities and mysterious deaths of key witnesses and characters, to the now deeply established scientific facts about the improbable destruction of the 3 WTC towers, the 9/11 official story is no longer easy to believe.

    Thus looming in the background of the hideous CIA torture programs is the powerful and liberating truth of 9/11. It sits in everyone’s consciousness waiting to come out. Now that horrific torture is fully revealed to the world, government can only hope that the masses somehow still believe the 9/11 official story lie.

  • tvt: thanks for the post – the abuse extends right from the top

    relating the discussions above


    Torture Is “Not Who We Are.” Which “We” is This Guy Talking About?

    If Obama is referring to people living in the US who haven’t tortured anyone and who oppose torture (which is the majority and does not include Obama), then he’s kind of right, except to the extent that these people are still forced to support torture through having their money stolen from them and used for torture, and having zero influence over state policy.

    But if by “we” he means the US state/oligarchic apparatus itself – his group – then (gasp) he’s a liar. Who would’ve thought?

    Here Colten Stokes gives a brief overview of US pre 9/11/01 torture (just torture, not things like slowly killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children in the 90s). It’s only a tiny sample of the endless volumes of documentation that are available, and only covers post WW2 US evil, such as throwing people from helicopters, giving electric shocks, and driving rods into people’s skulls through ear canals.

    The US also loves for its proxy forces to torture people, so it sends them torture equipment and teaches classes, including on live victims (homeless people), on such civilized dinner-conversation topics as “how to torture women”.

    The US was water-boarding people when it invaded the Philippines in 1899. Oh, and being “consciously genocidal” (p. 58), as in General J.M. Bell, 1901, stating he would:

    …destroy everything I find outside of towns. All able bodied men will be killed or captured. … These people need a thrashing to teach them some good common sense…

    Damn right.

    And the Philadelphia Ledger reported:

    …our men have been relentless, have killed to exterminate men, women, children, prisoners and captives, active insurgents and suspected people from lads of ten up, the idea prevailing that the Filipino as such was little better than a dog. . . . Our soldiers have pumped salt water into men to make them talk, and have taken prisoners people who held up their hands and peacefully surrendered, and an hour later, without an atom of evidence to show that they were even insurrectos, stood them on a bridge and shot them down one by one, to drop into the water below and float down, as examples to those who found their bullet-loaded corpses.


    And a marine noted that he was instructed to “kill and burn … that the more he killed and burned the better pleased [his commander] would be…”

    Hey, if this grosses you out, you might not have the stomach to be a member of Obama’s “we”, but it might help to remember what a US general said at the time:

    It has been necessary to adopt what in other countries would probably be thought harsh measures.

    Breathe that sigh of relief. The invasion and these tactics were “necessary”. ‘Cuz that guy, whoever he was, said so, which makes it okay.

    This US war of conquest against the Philippines (the US afterwards maintained the most brutal dictatorial control over the Philippines for about 100 years) killed perhaps a million people. The US locked hundreds of thousands in concentration camps, where they dropped like flies from horrific, perhaps “Salt Pit“-like conditions and neglect.

    You know the divinely ordained US and white race was bringing civilization to the Philippines and world, because “It was a time of intense racism in the United States. In the years between 1889 and 1903, on the average, every week, two Negroes were lynched by mobs — hanged, burned, mutilated. The Filipinos were brown-skinned, physically identifiable, strange-speaking and strange-looking to Americans. To the usual indiscriminate brutality of war was thus added the factor of racial hostility.” (Zinn)

    Soldiers writing about what they were doing said things like:

    “…we all wanted to kill ‘niggers.’ . . . This shooting human beings beats rabbit hunting all to pieces.”

    It suuuure does.

    Why was the US committing genocide in the Phililppines? Why was this “necessary”, as the US general informed us? Ask Senator Albert Beveridge, speaking on January 9, 1900:

    The Philippines are ours forever. . . . And just beyond the Philippines are China’s illimitable markets. We will not retreat from either. . . . We will not renounce our part in the mission of our race…

    The Pacific is our ocean. . . . Where shall we turn for consumers of our surplus? Geography answers the question. China is our natural customer. . . . The Philippines give us a base at the door of all the East. . . .

    No land in America surpasses in fertility the plains and valleys of Luzon. Rice and coffee, sugar and cocoanuts, hemp and tobacco. . . . The wood of the Philippines can supply the furniture of the world for a century to come. At Cebu the best informed man on the island told me that 40 miles of Cebu’s mountain chain are practically mountains of coal. . . .

    I have a nugget of pure gold picked up in its present form on the banks of a Philippine creek. . . .

    It has been charged that our conduct of the war has been cruel. Senators, it has been the reverse. . . . Senators must remember that we are not dealing with Americans or Europeans. We are dealing with Orientals.

    Ahh. That makes sense. Same reasons why Europe committed genocide in the Americas.

    This type of behavior is uniform back to 1776, when the US was, exactly like the psycho antagonist in Silence of the Lambs, skinning people (the original inhabitants of the continent) and making clothing, horse-reigns, and other useful items for themselves out of human skin.

    [read the rest]

  • Noticed over at xraymike’s site that the ameg videos from the COP20 conference have been taken down. The ameg videos featured John Nissen, Paul Beckwith, and others commenting on the extreme emergency an ice-free arctic creates for life on earth. They had daily press briefings for several days during the conference. I watched one of the early ones at the COP20 site. Here is a link to the site where I linked to the press conference videos:


    Watching the press conference videos from the above site was really aweful. Lots of buffering problems, videos kept starting & stopping. Frustrating. I think xraymike had a similar experience so he converted the videos to run on his youtube channel, where they ran much more smoothly. Well, it seems the UN has taken down all evidence of the ameg press briefings. The links are gone from the COP20 site linked above & xraymike (at the bottom of the current essay) says in the comment section: “The videos have been made private at the request of a UN rep… To be made available at a later date.” I am guessing the “later date” will be much, much later. Much.

    Guy: If I recall correctly you are going to be interviewing our favorite nerdy climate scientist, Dr. Beckwith, this next week on NBL radio. Please ask him for details on the COP20 experience & this censorship. xraymike is speculating that they violated at least two taboos. They used the word “geoengineering”. They disparaged the IPCC. Is this Paul’s take, as well? Was the whole thing just too dire for the climate “leaders” & politicians?

    The press briefings also featured a short video at the beginning with Dr. Peter Wadhams. In the video, Dr Wadhams is asked if humanity can survive an ice-free arctic. He answered no.

    Guy is likely not surprised by this. I think he has been getting some variety of this treatment for a LONG time. I tried to get a local organization that sponsored an entire climate change speaker series this year to pony up like $300 to bring Guy in to speak. Their response: “[Our organization] is very active in providing educational opportunities about peer reviewed climate change science, as well as working on actionable items to address climate change. We are trying to provide information while also taking positive steps. While I think that Guy would be a great speaker, I don’t think his approach fits well with our approach. Some of his findings do not seem to be supported by scientists that are trained in this field.”

    Fuck. Living in dystopia sucks. Keep to the party line. Don’t stray from the approved narrative. Don’t try to connect the dots, which are becoming increasingly easy to connect. Sad watching the world burn… screaming into the night…

  • I guess that it just emphasizes my ignorance and naivete about human nature, but I confess that I feel amazed by the significantly large number of people here who, with great passion, will argue about the alleged nature of a book and what the author has supposedly written without having FIRST carefully and thoughtfully read every word of it, from cover-to-cover, at least once. Simply amazing. It confirms so much of what Daniel Kahneman wrote in his book, Thinking, Fast and Slow.

  • Islanraider.

    Earlier this morning I emailed the AMEG to ask about the relative INSTANTANEOUS absorption-reradiation of methane compared top carbon dioxide. (I rang Paul Beckwith on this matter months ago and emailed him but have had no satisfactory reply.) I’m not sure that the site is working properly, since I have not received the email confirmation notification I was expecting.

    Robert Atack made it a mission to contact everyone he could find to ask the methane question, and I contacted Natalia Shakova. No response from her to date.

    Most people do not reply and of those who do, no one knows anything, though Robert got an interesting response from ‘Glen’, who suggested forcing factors were quickly made up (using incorrect methodology) in order to get carbon trading systems up and running as fast as possible -it always being about money, of course.

    All I know is, manipulation, lies, cover-up and censorship are everywhere, including on CoIC.

  • Mr Nye,

    Would u take the time to carefully read a book by Donald Trump, or George W. Bush, or Ronald Reagan, a KKK Grand Dragon, Bill O’Reilly or one of the ‘free-market’ darlings? Would u carefully take the time to read a book by anyone working for the Heritage Foundation, or the Cato Institute, or any other conservative foundation and not expect propaganda to be spewed by them? Would u read an essay by any one of the scientists, with strings of PhD’s (probably forged) who are PAID to deny climate change or say that capitalism is good for everyone.

    What if someone wrote a book arguing that the crucifixion of Jesus was indeed the right thing to do? This happens all the time as Christians go around slobbering about taking dominion over the earth, all the while killing blacks with impunity.

    Lord have mercy.

  • Bud –

    from my POV at least, it is a question of both time, and perception. I have been totally immersed in the academic world from the youngest age in my life, so I can recognize strong research and writing pretty quickly when I see it. Keeley did not strike me that way, and I don’t have the time or desire to take it further.

    I was also fortunate to have grown up in one of the most diverse parts of the North American continent, when it comes to native cultures, and one of the last places where these cultures made their stand as anything completely “whole.” Ishi and his story were childhood inspirations to me. their end was beyond tragic, but still enlightening for the few scholars who were making an effort to pay close attention – very close attention, as in “walking in his shoes” close. again, Keeley did not strike me as that kind of scholar.

  • The violence continues as ‘they’ attack the base of the pyramid ….
    Airborne particulates affect our health, mood, and cognition; and exposure to certain airborne fine particulate matter can result in neuroinflammation (fungal brain infection) and altered morphological characteristics in hippocampal neurons (memory), and have been linked to increased rates of suicide …
    And that’s just for humans.
    How could it not affect our fellow organisms?
    My search on possible effects of breathing in gmo pollen came up empty.
    The one article that touched on the subject provided a link to publication called “Molecular Psychiatry”, but alas, the link to that article was dead.

  • Congrats to Virgin Terry! Glad you lost your cherry!

    Ram – I’ve seen a documentary about a strong pack of wolves killing off a weaker pack in their territory — they wiped them out.

    I hope the world ends soon, so I don’t have read anymore Noble Savage crap.

    Thanks Tom – for the tireless tidbits.

    Thanks Kevin Moore and islandraider for the AMEG update.

    Thanks to everyone for putting up with my bullshit.

    I’ve been busy terrorizing folks at Truthout and Truthdig.

    Happy Holidays.

  • “I hope the world ends soon, so I don’t have read anymore Noble Savage crap.”


    And, I might add, the sneaky, white supremacy crap.

    Keep on terrorizing. Yeehaaaaa!

  • Artifact

    And the day came when more and more woe
    Piled up until humans said “D’oh!
    ‘Cause the increasing strife
    Made the struggle for life
    More painful than just letting go.

  • ‘Do you think the day will come when a crowd rushes a group of cops brutalizing a helpless individual, cuts their heads off, puts them on poles and parades them through the city?’ -Kirk Hamilton

    bit too bloody and surreal for my taste, kirk, but i relate to the sentiment. mother nature is going to take care of business though, of course, and when she’s finished the effect may be very similar. ‘justice’ for them?! for us?! to me, it’s justwhatis. no moral component. just what is. mother nature won’t discriminate between criminals and cops and everyone in between. when i ponder cops getting away with murder, i take comfort in that.

  • ‘for tvt, one of the NBL old-timers, a capitalisation and punctuation exercise:

    he helped his uncle jack off the mule every day -r. datta

    also an exercise in cut and paste. He helped his uncle jack off the mule every day. see, it didn’t do any good! except to make me lmao. thanks for that, meat, fellow ‘old timer’. (i thought i used proper punctuation. generally try to, anyway. jus can’t be bothered with caps, tho, or proper spelling always.)

  • Kirk Hamilton said, “Don’t let social controls
    destroy the very nature of your soles.”

    Wazamaddayou, Mr. Hamilton! It’s souls, NOT soles! Jeeeeesh!

  • There is another kind of assault, that of police protecting those who ravage the Earth and bring forward catastrophe to acquire more computer digits.

    And now extinction is starting to become a mainstream topic.

    ‘The problem, according to Nature, is exacerbated because of the huge gaps in scientists’ knowledge about the planet’s biodiversity. Estimates of the total number of species of animals, plants and fungi alive vary from 2 million to 50 million. In addition, estimates of current rates of species disappearances vary from 500 to 36,000 a year. “That is the real problem we face,” added Tittensor. “The scale of uncertainty is huge.”

    In the end, however, the data indicate that the world is heading inexorably towards a mass extinction – which is defined as one involving a loss of 75% of species or more. This could arrive in less than a hundred years or could take a thousand, depending on extinction rates.

    The Earth has gone through only five previous great extinctions, all caused by geological or astronomical events. (The Cretaceous-Jurassic extinction that wiped out the dinosaurs 65 million years ago was triggered by an asteroid striking Earth, for example.) The coming great extinction will be the work of Homo sapiens, however.’


  • Even Professor Ugo Bardi and a Professor of English have checked into the McPherson loon bin:

    First, thou shalt not scare them

    But now it’s time to accept our impending demise. Those are profoundly difficult words to write, but they are necessary: Our times demand a new rhetorical honesty. It is deceitful and irrelevant to sustain the charade that things may improve. Instead, it’s time to start talking about how we will die.”
    – Randy Malamud Regents’ Professor Of English, Georgia State University

  • Thanks Amy, hearing you loud and clear.
    To others who have recognized my comments who I haven’t been able to respond to in a timely way, please accept my appreciation and apologies. I’m still struggling with a lousy internet connection for this and can only post here when opportunity allows. Special thanks again to those who have helped me survive very difficult circumstances. There is nothing romantic about being sick, poverty stricken and cast aside. It is absolutely traumatizing. More appalling is that for billions similar suffering is ordinary. More frightening is that soon it will affect everyone. NTHE should be inducing universal compassion, and might be, if only everyone knew. Thanks Guy, and the chorus, for your continued efforts. May our howls be heard before they are forever silenced.

    It’s terribly rude to spill wine on the guest book of life.
    Most of the known universe does not foster the living.
    We see no other Earth offering support, comfort and love.
    We’ve destroyed a rarity.

  • “Global Research News Hour examines the latest research into the causes of Earth’s current Climate predicament…Professor McPherson explains his thesis of Near Term Human Extinction, the need to come to terms with the grief that goes along with that realization, the problems with geo-engineering as a remedy, and the problematic behaviour of both political leaders and mainstream environmental organizations in the face of the Climate Predicament.”


    [audio src="http://www.radio4all.net/files/scottprice666@hotmail.com/4319-1-GRNH__dec_12_2014_episode_86_session_mixdown_%282%29.mp3" /]

  • The Permian Extinction

    Fantastic video from Seemorerocks. Thanks Kevin Hester.


  • “tvt had to help his uncle Jack off a mule..”
    “tvt had to help his uncle jack off a mule..”

  • Here is an interesting news story about unusual lightning in my region,(possessive):

    ‘State of shock: NSW smashed with lightning strikes during wild start to summer season’


    I usually don’t read this rag, but I found it on the train open on the page with the story on it.

    I can confirm a great deal of thunder and very wide scale lightning in the mountains where I live over the early weeks of December.

    I have lived in these mountains for 40 years, and never heard such ‘furniture moving upstairs’ like that.

    From the online version:


    December 1: 110,416
    December 2: 36,205
    December 3: 105,310
    December 4: 133,180
    December 5: 48,754
    December 6: 78,410
    December 7: 32,175
    December 8: 28,224
    December 9: 10,251

    Of course it would help if there were comparisons with other years, so one could determine by how much these figures deviate from average…but that is modern journalism for you….it’s not a peer reviewed journal.

    On another matter, does anyone know if ‘New Scientist’ is peer reviewed, and got a credible reputation?

    Just askin.

    ( 6×9 ??? wow, Guy really is only wanting the elite on NBL now…. ;) )

  • Benjamin td: thanks for sharing your wonderful gift for condensing an issue to a nugget of truth. The limericks always bring me a smile and at the same time a “wonder” at this ability. You’re the best!

    Grant – this place wouldn’t be the same without your ‘straight to the point’ zen-like responses. Keep ’em comin’.

    Wester: thanks for the link! Guy’s message is becoming mainstream. Gonna be some interesting consequences.

    Robin: thanks for the laugh out loud moment (completely unexpected from you).

    Guy: can we get some related rate problems in the Capcha, just to make it interesting? e.g. If a train leaves Chicago for Sacramento at 8 a.m. at the same time a train from Sacramento leaves for Chicago (don’t forget to factor in the time zone difference) and the Chicago train is travelling at 40 mph while the Sacramento train is going 50, when will they cross paths? We could add in wind to make one of them a bit slower, too. You could probably make it multiple choice to give people a better chance. OOH – a better one might be along the lines of kevin moore’s quest for methane to CO2e conversion documentation:

    If a gigaton of methane leaves the shallow ocean floor and rises into the atmosphere, when will civilization cease to exist?

    a) it’s happening right now!
    b) when my grandchildren are my age, but they’ll think of somethin’.
    c) who cares, what’s on tv?
    d) it’s a conspiracy by Al Gore, so don’t pay any attention to it.

  • Full circle story @ JJFH

    2014-12-12 – Two dozen geese drop dead from the sky during storm in Denmark

    “Note: I wonder what was IN that rain. This sounds like an event that happened to me in early January of 2011, a couple of days after the birds dropped dead from the sky in Beebe (Arkansas) the first time. There was a strange smell in the air, which faded rapidly, and a flock of birds dropped dead from the sky and rained onto a neighbor’s garage across the street from me, in the wee hours. There was no storm happening then though. Less than an hour later a street sweeper crew came by (still pre-dawn hours) and cleaned them up and by the light of morning it was as if nothing had ever happened. I consider myself lucky to still be alive after that event.

    Not long after that, people began reporting carrier pigeons mysteriously disappearing over the ocean between Britain and Scotland, which they dubbed the ‘Birdmuda Triangle’. That’s when I realized, uh oh, this ancient atmospheric extinction event is upon us. I still waited an extra year though, to see if governments could somehow put this foul genie back in its bottle. But things only worsened, and once it had become obvious that things were just going to keep getting worse and worse, until we’re all dead, I decided I ought to give my fellow human beings a heads-up, in case anyone wants to try to survive. And here we are today!”

    and one other, interesting one from the dozens on today’s post:

    2014-12-12 – Home hit by fire three times in one night, destroyed after third fire, in Festus (Missouri)

    if interested: http://jumpingjackflashhypothesis.blogspot.com/

  • Tom: the video I posted earlier discusses these gasses.


  • OzMan, that is interesting (about the lightning strikes).

    New Scientist isn’t peer reviewed. It is what it is (a pop science magazine) but I feel it is somewhat sensationalist and disingenuous and has a fair amount of pseudoscience. But it’s not too bad either. In general, reputable peer reviewed journals that have been around for a while have an impact factor assigned to them (based on who cites papers published in that journal) and the really good ones like Nature, Science, etc. have impact factors in the 20+ range.

  • If anyone knows why I haven’t been banned from commenting at Huffington Post, please inform me here in comments.

    comments section

    comments section

    tell people
    or something…

    thnx one n all

  • dmd: yes, I read it – thanks! The site I linked to has an on-going list of “suspicious”, “unexplainable”, odd, and once rare but now too-often repeated incidents of the on-going destruction being caused by those gases every day (specifically CH4 and H2S) for 3+ years now – all verifiable news stories.

    Manholes blowing off city streets, telephone poles spontaneously bursting into flames, birds dropping from the skies, extremely large fish kills, sudden aberrant behavior changes in people and animals (usually preceding death) and way too many (parked or active in each of these vehicles) tractor trailer, bus, ship, plane, train, car (even a crushed pile of them) and even golf carts spontaneously exploding into flames; above and underground electrical infrastructure flame outs, people (like ex-navy seals, young soldiers, college students, inmates, people going out for a walk or to gather firewood dropping dead and on and on – I just find it all fascinating and want to share it with anyone else who’s interested is all. It’s probably morbid, but so’s civilization.

  • Wester, oldgrowthforest, wren, amy, logspirit,

    Thanks for your comments here, I hear you.
    So much to keep up with!

    Paul Chefurka

    how on earth can anybody know what our stone age ancestors were really like. Did they really practice population control by warfare? Why is that so obvious? I haven’t read the book and wouldn’t. And, just to mention, I’m not a “noble savage” romantic.

    And to think that we should maybe not abandon violence because they did “well” started warfare. You quoted some percentage but I forget the number.
    Is that how I should read you?
    What a flippant statement.

    Apart from the very little scientific (archaeological) evidence found, what really does anybody alive now have to go on but “imaginal” thinking, plain old intuition in order to recreate their world. Nobody can know or will ever know. But, of course, I have my own ideas and intuition. And considering the “evidence” most people could do no more but have their own “theories”. IMO it’s disingenuous to think otherwise.
    I’m quite shocked to think that you would consider thinking of violence as a good way to “control” population.
    Maybe it’s because I’m a woman (who contributed to population control by choosing to be childless – the non-violent way), but what kind of a state of mind would I need to get me to where you are?

    But then no need to listen to a woman’s voice… what do they know.

  • Breaking news. Governments have agreed to kick the can down the road a bit further and not actually deal with anything.

    ‘The five-page text agreed on Sunday – now officially known as the Lima Call for Climate Action – represents the embryonic phase of the deal due to be delivered in Paris.’


  • ‘In space, no one can hear you scream… unless you happen to be Venezuela’s (soon to be former) leader Nicolas Maduro, who has been doing a lot of screaming this morning following news that UAE’s Energy Minister Suhail Al-Mazrouei said OPEC will stand by its decision not to cut crude output “even if oil prices fall as low as $40 a barrel” and will wait at least three months before considering an emergency meeting.

    In doing so, OPEC not only confirms that the once mighty cartel is essentially non-existant and has been replaced by the veto vote of the lowest-cost exporters (again, sorry Maduro), but that all those energy hedge funds (and not only) who hoped that by allowing margin calls to go straight to voicemail on Friday afternoon, their troubles would go away because of some magical intervention by OPEC over the weekend, are about to have a very unpleasant Monday, now that the next oil price bogey has been set: $40 per barrell.

    Luckily, this will be so “unambiguously good” for the US consumer, it should surely offset the epic capex destruction that is about to be unleashed on America’s shale patch, in junk bond hedge funds around the globe, and as millions of high-paying jobs created as a result of the shale miracle are pink slipped. ‘


  • Robert Callaghan,

    You wrote: “I hope the world ends soon, so I don’t have read anymore Noble Savage crap.” This reminds me of a television interview I saw many years ago of a psychologist who had re-written many of the popular, but psychologically and sociologically quite unhealthy, fairy tales. He re-wrote them so that they carried more healthy messages to children. The reaction from the studio audience regarding some of the changes he had made? EXTREME anger! Some people, with screaming and shouting, quite literally thought that someone should execute him. As Kahneman writes in Thinking, Fast & Slow, “A reliable way to make people believe in falsehoods is frequent repetition, because FAMILIARITY IS NOT EASILY DISTINGUISED FROM TRUTH.” The message? People LOVE their myths, their fantasies, the stories they tell themselves and others, and they often strongly HATE anyone who challenges those stories (perhaps especially religious stories).

    I think that this goes a long way toward accounting for the often strong, negative emotional reactions to Guy’s message regarding very highly probable near term human extinction. It surely also largely accounts for the strong, negative emotional reactions to the anthropological and archaeological evidence and reasoning presented by Keeley, LeBlanc, Tattersall, and others. As Paul Ekman writes in his book, Emotions Revealed, “We may become angry with someone who advocates actions or beliefs that offed us, even a total stranger. We need not even meet the stranger; reading about someone who engages in action or who HOLDS BELIEFS WITH WHICH WE DISAGREE may arouse our anger.” I notice that that OFTEN happens here at NBL, just as it did at Fractal Planet. People often scream at others with great anger variations on the theme of “How DARE you express an idea that I disagree with, I don’t like, that challenges one of my favorite beliefs, or that I don’t want to hear!”

    It does not surprise me that we humans find ourselves in our self-annihilation trap. Why not? Because we exist first and foremost as highly emotional animals that for the most part strongly prefer short-term hedonistic, immediate gratification experiences—perhaps most subtly, but very importantly, INCLUDING the things we THINK, the things we believe, and the stories we tell ourselves and each other, all of which can directly and immediately make us feel good or least better. We usually strongly prefer this kind of immediate short-term hedonism over a longer-term hedonism.


    Regarding your question about whether I would read certain books, if I had a sufficient interest in the subject of a book or paper by Donald Trump, George W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, a KKK Grand Dragon, Bill O’Reilly or one of the “free-market” darlings, or by any other author regarding any subject, a sufficient interest to wish to write a review of it or to otherwise comment on it somewhere, OF COURSE I would carefully read it before reviewing or commenting on it! Indeed, ESPECIALLY if it involved someone or something that I disagreed with, ESPECIALLY if I THOUGHT I knew beforehand what they would say—and MOST ESPECIALLY if I felt some strong emotions about it, which I OFTEN DO—I would use even more care than usual to make sure that I fully understood their evidence and arguments. Why? Because I would not want to jump to inaccurate and unwarranted conclusions, misunderstand them, or misrepresent what they wrote. I find it extremely easy to misunderstand and misrepresent what someone wrote or said when I feel strong emotions about a subject, so then, especially, I find that I need to slow down, back off, read or listen carefully, or take a break and come back later after I have calmed myself down. Especially after having read Kahneman and quite a lot of physics education research, I know very well that the COGNITIVE FRAME and the BIASES that we have when we approach something has a very powerful influence on our understanding of it, often producing COGNITIVE ERRORS, so I work hard not to impose my preconceived notions, based on either familiarity or unfamiliarity, onto it. As Kahneman emphasizes, people OFTEN do not want more information that might spoil their preexisting story, which they feel comfortable with. This certainly includes me, so I work hard to remain open and avoid filtering out too much. (As any competent scientist knows, this kind of framing and bias OFTEN reduces creativity and causes trouble in constructing an understanding of the things they study!) Meanwhile, John Gottman’s research related to physiological arousal in interpersonal relations makes it crystal clear that STRONG PHYSIOLOGICAL AROUSAL, as occurs with anger and fear, tends strongly to CLOUD THINKING AND JUDGMENT.

    How could I POSSIBLY construct a hopefully accurate, well-reasoned review or comment without first carefully, thoughtfully reading the book or paper? By just reading the cover of it? I don’t THINK so! Will you please help me to understand how someone can possibly review a book or comment on it with any accuracy, understanding, and intelligence, when they have NOT read it, as you seem to suggest that people can and should do? Meanwhile, regarding your claim that “Simply, by intuition, I can discredit Keely et.al. by reading Wester’s comments”, I will emphasize this short paragraph at the end of Kahneman’s chapter in Thinking, Fast and Slow titled “The Illusion of Validity”: “The main point of this chapter is not that people who attempt to predict the future make many errors; that goes without saying. The first lesson is that errors of prediction are inevitable because the world is unpredictable. The second is that HIGH SUBJECTIVE CONFIDENCE IS NOT TO BE TRUSTED AS AN INDICATOR OF ACCURACY (LOW CONFIDENCE COULD BE MORE INFORMATIVE).”

    I notice that you and some others keep trying to turn Keeley, LeBlanc, and Tattersall’s evidence and reasoning into a racist issue. You keep suggesting that they have a racist agenda, WHICH THEY DO NOT. You repeatedly suggest that anyone who accepts their evidence and reasoning must have a white, supremacist, racist agenda, which I certainly do not, and I expect that few others here do as well. Their evidence and reasoning have absolutely NOTHING to do with any racist bias or agenda, as you would easily see if you would actually read their books. Their themes involve ALL “races”, including black, white, oriental, Eskimo, American Indian, Latino, etc., depending on how you may wish to categorize different “races”.

    If anyone has a racist, supremacist agenda, here, it appears to me as though you do. Why do I write that? Because you and a few others keep making those completely inappropriate, out-of-context, racist claims, suggesting superiority of some “races” over others (in this case, red men superior to white men). I, for one, definitely do NOT think in those ways: neither red men superior to white me, NOR white men superior to red men. Your often trying to cram the anthropological and archaeological evidence and reasoning into the extremely NARROW FRAME of white men vs. red men over the past 1,000 years or so in North America makes it quite clear that you do not understand the BROAD FRAME of archaeology, anthropology, primatology, and ethnography, which involves the entire planet over about the past two million year history of the entire Homo genus. In my opinion, in doing this you misuse NBL as a platform to promote a racist, political agenda. As Paul Ekman emphasizes in Emotions Revealed, “Anger can motivate us to stop or change whatever caused us to feel angry. Anger at injustice motivates actions to bring about change.” Based on this reasoning, it does make some sense for you to feel and express your anger about racial injustices done to yourself and to others. On the other hand, it does NOT make good sense for you to direct your anger at people ON YOUR SIDE, what Aric McBay, Lierre Keith, and Derrick Jensen in their book, Deep Green Resistance, called “horizontal hostility”.

  • Today on cbc radio (link below) a scientist spoke rather plainly and calmly about (mainly) how rising oceans are and will render Miami and south Florida, as well as other coastal areas around Earth unliveable: ‘Doomed’ he said.

    He also said, ‘The oceans are now the monsters…’, ignoring the true monsters in the picture (guess who?).

    He told how he and some other scientists were give about 10 minutes by Florida ‘authorities’ to present a case for NOT developing coastal areas, because they won’t be there in the not too distant future. 10 minutes, he wryly noted: less time than the radio interview.

    Although he understated things, and the interviewer steered the conversation back to the ‘predicament’ of Miami and Florida, the scientist spoke of the melting of Greenland, the dramatic release of methane – and even used the word ‘irreversible’ in reference to climate change.

    Nothing new for NBL readers but rather remarkable for Canada’s national radio on a Sunday morning before the ‘holidays’, when the usual fare is more like how to ‘survive’ all the mad mandatory (for some) shopping and merry-making.

    Given the constraints of status quo radio (which the CBC certainly is) with it’s typical don’t-want-to-scare the kiddies-or bum-out-the-grownups approach, the scientist reminded me of a very, very, very light, very pale, VERY reigned-in version of the other Guy.

    And given the pre-occupation of many folks in this crazed culture with money and real estate, one of the ‘take-aways’ from the conversation was, ‘You might want to think twice about investing in Florida beach-front property’.

    Oh, and he did mention the insanity of those hell-bent on getting their oil drills into northern waters, now that all that troublesome ice is going away, rubbing their hands at the prospect of extracting, transporting, selling and burning even MORE of the very thing that is, day by day, killing the Planet and Her creatures.


  • https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/dec/14/lima-climate-change-talks-reach-agreement

    What I find discouraging (apart from everything) is how little is said about stopping deforestation as a means of addressing emissions. That would lead to what actions were required to compensate or allow for stopping deforestation. In detail. Do they think about such things at these conferences?

    Then there was the Suzuki link yesterday on Monsanto GMO trees.


    Apparently, and in principle, Monsanto has a right to anybody’s property if their materials blow onto and “infect” plants on it. Rather than go into the science of genes (which the average landowner is sketchy and uninterested about) why is the focus not 90% on the threat to sovereign ownership of property instead? Isn’t that the issue most likely to be understood and resisted by the many?

  • Thank you Sabine, for such a clear illustration of emotion-based resistance.

    From before 8000 BCE until 1500 AD the human growth rate averaged just 0.05%. Around 1500 it began to rise, reaching a peak in the 1980s at over 2% per year. This suddeen lon-linearity implies that something (actually a collection of influences) were keeping human overgrowth in check for 10,000 years, and then suddenly lost their effectiveness, virtually overnight.

    Given Keeley’s estimate of a 0.5% death rate from warfare, it doesn’t take much imagination to see in it a possible explanation for the relative stability of human numbers for so long. Even if Keeley’s estimate is 10x too high overall, it’s still plenty high enough to have influenced a growth rate of only 0.05%.

    Yes, my comment about welcoming the increase in violent deaths was flippant. The serious version of it is this: As societies begin to dissolve, the evidence suggests that violence will become far more common, perhaps enough to depress overall population growth rates below zero. I don’t relish the idea of violence, but I do think that the planet could get by with a lot fewer human beings. I’m grimly happy to know that there are natural mechanisms that may act to keep those new lower numbers in check over the long haul.

  • Why oh why do I waste my time?

    Mr. Nye. Here is part of your response:

    “Regarding your question about whether I would read certain books, if I had a sufficient interest in the subject of a book or paper by Donald Trump, George W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, a KKK Grand Dragon, Bill O’Reilly or one of the “free-market” darlings, or by any other author regarding any subject,…”

    Here are my exact words:

    “Would u take the time to carefully read a book by Donald Trump, or George W. Bush, or Ronald Reagan, a KKK Grand Dragon, Bill O’Reilly or one of the ‘free-market’ darlings?”

    You added something! “…or by adding any other author regarding any subject…”

    You cut the balls off of my statement by adding words to shape the discussion to allow you NOT to answer the question. I do not know what this is called but at the least it is disingenuous. At the worst, it is fraudulent, if you purposely fail to address a question. (This is where the phase Ad hominem comes in as a retort.)

    I fell sorry for people like you who have to hide uniforms in your closets.

    Oh, the anger shep! I can just hear it. NO! It is frustration at muckety muckness.


    Private Property. You have not heard of Henry George, 1890. He determined, among many other things, essentially that private property will be the reason for the eventual American downfall. He said that since defense budgets are mostly needed for the protection of private property, he suggested that defense spending should be paid ONLY by property owners.

    To me, air, water, land, the airways, belong to all of us, and should be held in common.

    I especially find taking “dominion” over the world to be repugnant and criminal.

  • Third post again! (I’ll try to do better.)


    The subject of whether or not to support the concept of private property is beyond the present discussion. Tens of millions of Americans (not to mention many more worldwide) currently organize themselves around private property. That isn’t a subject I am now able to take on. What interests me here is the practical means of curtailing Monsanto’s take over of the very ground from under our feet. If the focus of resistance is less about science and more about the basic sense of property rights that pervades our society (and is not subject to any near term philosophical argument about property) it seems to be a way to push back more effectively against Monsanto. What others think of that simple proposition, not what they believe about property in general, is what I’m hoping to find out.