Parts Two and Three from Chico: Abrupt Climate Change

The second and third components of my recent presentations about climate change in Chico, California are embedded below. These parts include abrupt climate change and subsequent Q&A. From 20 November 2014, they address abrupt climate change, and are provided by Ivey Cone at Fuki Cafe. Part one was included in my post from 3 December 2014.

According to Michael Mann in this video interview, 450 ppm is the new target. Or maybe it’s 460. Never mind that 350 is the upper limit according to the journal literature. Oh, and rumor tells me Mann, who follows my work and never credits me, is headed for New Zealand.

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Catch Nature Bats Last on the radio with Mike Sliwa and Guy McPherson. Tune in every Tuesday at 8:00 p.m. Eastern time, or catch up in the archives here. If you prefer the iTunes version, including the option to subscribe, you can click here.

This week’s show — to be broadcast Tuesday, 9 December — includes an extensive interview with journalist Dahr Jamail.

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McPherson’s latest book is co-authored by Carolyn Baker. Extinction Dialogs: How to Live with Death in Mind is available.

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Find and join the Near-Term Human Extinction SUPPORT Group on Facebook here

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If you have registered, or you intend to register, please send an email message to guy.r.mcpherson@gmail.com. Include the online moniker you’d like to use in this space. I’ll approve your registration as quickly as possible. Thanks for your patience.

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Going Dark is available from the publisher here, from Amazon here, from Amazon on Kindle here, from Barnes & Noble on Nook here, and as a Google e-book here. Going Dark was reviewed by Carolyn Baker at Speaking Truth to Power, Anne Pyterek at Blue Bus Books, and by more than three dozen readers at Amazon.

Comments 98

  • First comment! WoooHooo!

  • These two videos were very good. Thanks to Mimi Riley, Peter Melton,Ivey Cone and all!

  • Hey Guy. I just now went to the ‘Donation’ link at the top of the page and sent you a Christmas gift! Why? Well, heck, I LIKE you and you have done such a fine job of being there for me, for all of us. Bless your and your family this season and throughout the new year!

  • @Ram
    Sorry- I missed your post- I never think to check the forum!
    What happened between when I was 36 and a child? Well I think as a child I remember noticing the feeling of just being ‘here’ but Im not sure if there was a conscious recognition of the fact that what I was noticing was ‘ME’. My sense now is that it is this conscious recognition that it is actually ‘me’- not self, not awareness, not presence, not god, not unconditional love and all the other abstractions that we have so fallen in love with- that actually does the trick. It may be that it settles the issue of identity finally but really what i think it does is simply eradicate the deep often hidden conviction that I am at stake in this life- the existential fearfulness I mentioned previously. I do think most of us touch on this simple presence from time to time- maybe its in a yoga class or gardening or whatever but when we dont recognise it to be ‘me’ that I am tasting then it becomes just a pleasant experience or insight that gets woven into the story of me.

    So when I was 17 I stumbled on a book by Osho with beautiful zen stories. That really caught me in the grip of a search for a spiritual solution to the problem of being a human being. It also left me with a sense of helplessness- a feeling that there was nothing I could ‘do’- almost as if ‘realisation’ ‘enlightenment’ all these beautiful descriptions- was just an accident that might happen or not.

    the simple truth is that this life exactly as it is with nothing changed and nothing kept from changing IS the realisation. You have never been asleep. You have never been helped or hurt by any of the passing parade of phenomena that occur within you.

    Then later I read everything by Krishnamurti. I just knew the answer was in there somewhere- in the next book, in the next talk 🙂 and he would implore people to look. But for the life of me I never knew what it was I was supposed to try and look for or see. That just drove me crazy for ages and yet I could never escape the feeling that there was some ‘final solution’ (if you will forgive the expression) to the problem of being a human being.

    The search for a spiritual solution seems like a sickness to me now and the whole idea of spiritual evolution oxymoronic.

    I could never entertain the idea of a spiritual practice and thankfully I didnt spend too much time trying to wade through all the spiritual texts

    Then in later years I came upon Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta. Both have very interesting stories and both really had no spiritual background or understanding when they stumbled on reality. Ramanas instruction was basically- first of all before anything else find out what you are. He also related a story on his deathbed (dying of cancer) about the doctors telling him that he was going- and his response was “how can that be?- I am here”. Now I see that this wasnt some mystical spiritual thing- he was speaking the literal truth “I” am “here”-I and here are the same. Nisargadatta had a similiarly concise instruction to simply look for the feel of ‘I am’

    So that gave me something that i could ‘do’ – something to look for.

    It strikes me now that for the most part nearly all of the teachings and teachers have only offered us descriptions of a life free of fear- a natural life if you will. this seems to be because most- while their experience is no doubt authentic have had no idea what actually occured in their life that brought an end to the search. So what we have been given in their attempts to help have been prescriptions and proscriptions on how to live- so that we can try and emulate a natural life. That obviously has not gotten us very far.

    here is all that is required- Just take a moment right now and move your attention from whatever is calling it and find the simple feel of your presence here, what it actually feels like to be you. What it feels like to be what you would call me, when speaking of yourself.

    Obviously one taste of ‘you’ does not transform the personality- its not like that- nothing needs to be changed- but over time the repeated looking kind of saturates the mind- kind of seeps into it and the fear and the effects of the fear fall away often without you even knowing that it is happening. You see- nothing new is gained- you have always been seeing yourself- its more of a subtraction where all of the false things you believed yourself to be fall away- the distance between you and your life falls away

    It is apparent to me that one direct recognition will have you doing it again and again..why? .. because its what you have been looking for all along – just in the wrong place- outward

    Sorry about the ramble
    hope some of it was helpful

  • Thank you, Kirk Hamilton, for your generous donation. Happy holidays to you and yours.

  • “The research, published Wednesday in Environmental Research Letters, provides policymakers and economists with a new perspective on how fast human carbon emissions heat the planet. Back-of-the-envelope estimates for how long it takes for a given puff of CO2 to crank up the heat have generally been from 40-50 years. But the new study shows that the timeframe for CO2 emissions to reach their maximum warming potential is likely closer to 10 years.”

    http://www.climatecentral.org/news/co2-emissions-peak-heat-18394

  • Two more great talks, Guy! i’m listening to the responses in the Q & A and it seems almost everyone is in denial, if i’m interpreting what they’re saying correctly. From the first person who is just coming to terms with the information, to the guy who pretty much flat out said that “people have been predicting the [immanent demise of civilization] for years and here we still are” – clearly not putting any faith in the science or what you presented and thinking there’s still lots of time, to the people at the end who all think they can DO something about it to change the course we’re on [from the “no negative thoughts in the collective subconscious” lady, with her woo-woo psychological approach to the person who wants to ‘apologize to nature’ (in our hearts and actions) – they’ve yet to fathom that all our collective actions, from breathing to eating and just living life IS the predicament now]. The talks were great and having these Q & A sessions reveal the state of the audience in their road to acceptance of the information. It’s a great place for them to start and I wish them all the best and thank you for at least letting them know where we are in reality.

  • Guy, Great presentations.

    However, a ball falling is NOT an example of a self-reinforcing feedback; it is an example of the action of a constant force in combination with e NEGATIVE feedback; the constant force of gravity (we can ignore the miniscule increase as a falling object gets closer to the Earth) is opposed by the frictional force due to air molecules getting in the way, and the faster the ball falls, the greater the opposing force, until, given enough time, the opposing force matches the gravitational force and the speed no longer increases.

    We live in a world dominated by negative feedbacks and it not easy to come up with non-climate-related example of positive feedbacks; my understanding of the development of rotary steam engines is that early tinkerers found that the faster the engine went the more it tended to drag stem into the cylinder, thereby causing it to go faster. This was particularly disastrous for early railway trains going down hills. Hence the development of governors which reduced the steam flow as the engine speed increased, providing the vital negative feedback.

    It’s easy to make small mistakes, I’ve done it myself: you said : “we go from approximately 400ppm to 7500ppb methane,” when you meant 1800ppb methane.

    The correct very-short-term warming factor for methane is still undetermined, it seems, but I’m still advocating the use of 300x CO2 for times frames that matter (after all even UNIPCC are saying 86 times over 20 years, and that factors in non-existent decay) -Precautionary Principle and all that.

    There is no delay in the heating effect of carbon dioxide. The effect of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is both instantaneous and cumulative. Both Tyndall and Arrhenius pointed that out long ago. The effect of methane is both instantaneous and cumulative, though the cumulative effect is moderated by the conversion of methane into carbon dioxide.

    The apparent delay in warming is illusory and refers to the FUTURE AREA under the effect-time graph. In other words, with an ever-increasing concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere, future effect will be greater than current effect.

    In 2007 I had some cards printed which highlighted the danger of abrupt climate change, and handed out quite a few.

    ‘Nobody’ was listening.

    It seem that several members of the audience were not listening to what you had to say. However, the majority do seem to be getting it, at last.

    Keep doing the talks and keep refining those presentations.

    By th3e way, I’m sure no one in Lima with any power to act will be talking any notice of the AMEG group’s dire prognosis. And I hope no one starts building ships with super funnels to spray sea water into the air, as proposed by the mad engineers.

    As you so rightly point out, Industrial Civilisation is the problem and no ‘solution’ coming from the minds of those inculcated into its memes will work.

  • Dear Guy,

    You know I usually try to keep our exchanges private in matters of importance, but this time I will make a more public statement. So yeah, Micheal Mann has you on the popularity contest I guess, what ever…. but that is only because he is a schlem. You are way better looking and real, fucking real. So… You might want to consider that like it or not, you might dabble in a little more schlemeling. Because humans are what they are and if your goal is to have them learn to live a life of excellence, you might have to bend a little. 🙂

  • Dear readers who appreciate my input;

  • @Ram
    Just to clarify- to my mind this context of fearfulness- which is kind of like a disease which affects the majority of humans- is the engine which drives all of the insanity, the aggression, the hatred, the violence and causes us to inflict suffering on one another and the environment. When this context is snuffed out its effects have no further use and wither away. In view of that everyone is doing the very best they can within that context- which sees life as dangerous and something to be kept at arms length lest it swallow me up. Within that context the insanity is justifiable- “Forgive them-for they know not what they do”.
    So it is clear to me that what we have been doing for all our lives is trying to fix the effects of this context internally and externally and that has us in our predicament.
    When the war in our own hearts – which says I want this and I dont want that- comes to an end- then the external war also comes to an end. Life is still hard with pain etc but the suffering element is gone. Action is then more intelligent- learning- without the desperate need to try and do something to ‘save’/protect me. In reality we have limited control over what actually happens (thats the fun)- but we do have some control over where we place our attention and that is something we can work with and strengthen (as the effects of the fear fall away) to better navigate our lives.

  • Life is about who one is.
    Life is not about what one possesses, not about what one wishes reality to be, not about how long one lives, nor about how “happy” one is.
    One is what one does. (One is being what one is doing.)
    What one does is one’s life. (What one is being doing is one’s life.)
    A just life is its own reward.
    Evil (causing suffering) is its own punishment.

  • Acceptance or non-acceptance does not change reality.
    Resistance to reality is futile.
    The only way forward is through reality.

  • My sense (intuition) is that within the next three (3) years the United States of America will collapse and most (if not all) of its nuclear power plants will meltdown and destroy the habit for most of life on Earth. Also, an Arctic methane burp will occur that will quickly cause global temperature rise and the destruction of the habit for most of life on Earth. – See you on the other side (?).

  • NEW VIDCAST now UP on the Diner Blog!

    Guests are Steve Ludlum from Economic Undertow, Ugo Bardi from Resource Limits and Ron Patterson from Peak Oil Barrel.

    I embedded it into The Dimming Bulb article on the Diner. It is also Feature Video on the Diner Homepage.

    http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/2014/12/07/the-dimming-bulb/

    RE

  • Mr Mann is maybe somewhat ok on climatefront but he seems absolutely CLUELESS on renewables On ERoEI and how it all depends on fossil fuel and ressorce industry also ” Er Hat Keine ahnung ” (No Clue ! – just to put it in german for the fun of it ) how the german green energy industry is totally dependent on government subsidies and that mean fossil fuel and nuclear and that is “Eine Augenauswischerei” a hogwash in reality

  • Diarmuid, I think your second post about fear states it well (cf. Star Wars). If you recall, what started this discussion was me disagreeing with your claim that doing this (seeing yourself) was simple. I said if it were really that simple, the world would be a better place. I think SOME (only a few, really) people go on this quest hoping to stumble into whatever it is you figured out in your 30s, as I did, and as you say, it is there to be found, but comprehension is important, as is being free from the lower rungs of Maslow’s hierarchy. I do think it is a form of sleeping when you forget yourself and the action of waking up doesn’t happen unless you are connected with your self in a conscious manner. The connection needs to be made repeatedly and with a pretty good understanding of what it is trying to achieve (thus “wake up!”).

    Talking about Krishnamurti, Osho, et al. to my six year old doesn’t work. She doesn’t understand what she has but I will do my best to help her retain it. I’m sure I don’t have to convince you of the value of reaching your self, without any residual self image, as often as needed. Again, if you’re invested in the Matrix, it’s easy to not even go there in the first place and your statements will just be incomprehensible to most individuals. And then there are those who are like Cypher, who prefer to ignore reality for their fantasy.

    I think of all the modern professional spiritualists (and I think that’s an oxymoron—it boggles my mind that people make money from this), Krishnamurti’s views are what I think are on the mark. I think the existentialists have it down as well, and the ones who inspired them. But whatever floats one’s boat is what I say. The point after all is partly to not judge other individuals.

    I have often said that if everyone engaged in hippy flipping, there would be no more wars. However, doing it and understanding why something happens are two different things. Understanding how and why is useful to those with a passion for doing so (i.e., doing science, which is my first and foremost love, since age 5).

    Nonetheless, what we do as individuals and what we do as a species/population are two different things. Evolution operates on multiple scales and in my own simulations and in the kind done in Limits to Growth, the odds of coming up with trajectories are self-sustaining is low and chance plays the dominant role. Thus it is unfortunate that the trajectory we’re on is what we’re on. The Matrix allegory is apt: a tiny amount of choice is adequate to convince a population that they have agency, and why not, the systems are chaotic.

    For this reason we can determine key points, processes, or boundary conditions that needed to have existed in order for the rest of the trajectory to proceed in the direction it proceeds. Any deviation would mean exponential differences in trajectory. An example in our own early evolution is the symbiotic relationship between the eukarotic cell and mitochondria—this microspecialisation is a key marker that enabled the evolution of multicellular organisms. There could be planets out there with archaea and prokaryotes without eukaryotic cell because such an event, or whatever it is that this event signifies, didn’t happen. Likewise, there are other important events that have led up to this particular forum being created focussed on this particular topic (i.e., NTHE) so we can have this particular exchange. These in my opinion are: 1. a trait for short term problem solving; 2. an economic system that is based on this trait; 3. the spread of this economic system worldwide.

  • this place here is becoming a forum of “Dialectic Materialism” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_materialism This way of thinking was propagated in the ex communist countries as some sort of a spiritual Ersatz (substitute) for the loss of God in the human psyche as a consequence of eliminating church and tradition after the establishment of the soviet state . Not that they did not have progressive ideas . They actually wanted to dissolve marriage as an institution among other retardations of traditions which they did not follow through with unfortunately it would have been interesting to see the patriarchal societal structure loosing its deadly grip on humanity and how that could have changed things. The Hippy s tryed to make up for it with free love and stuff but it was to late to little at that stage of the historical process . But i digress . So here Now everybody is freaked out since all of you became such materialists Mired in the density of matter as a means to survival and propagation of your little selves .. That`s Pathetic ! All you whiners ! All your big efforts with little penises for no good .Are you freaked out now ? What do you think all the poets have been talking about until now ? Were they here for ornament ! No they been trying to tell you that you are not an animal anymore but of divine nature maybe this extinction eventually makes you realize if nothing else will http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHNa_f28Q-s

  • I am 600% allergic to woo of any and all stripe. I am totally uninterested in transcending anything or communing with whatever. My woo-meisters, if you could call them that, are Bakunin, Proudhoun, Luigi Galleani, Emma Goldman, Malcolm X, Bobby Seale, George Jackson, Paulo Friere, Crazy Horse and El Che. My sacred texts are “The Myth of Sisyphus”, “Being and Nothingness”, “Revolution of Everyday Life”, and Robert F. Williams’ tract on urban guerrilla insurgency.

    Will woo and commune with y’all on the other side. Cheers.

  • EtyerePetyere: I apologise for my role in any thread hijacking that occurs, but using only the forum doesn’t seem to work always and topics get moved across threads for whatever reasons. I do think it is relevant to discuss these ideas in the context of the purpose of this forum and I am always grateful to Guy for enabling such a forum (which I myself don’t do on my own web site, ram.org).

    Yes, Engels and Marx’s insights I think are apropos to the problem of NTHE we have here and the discussions we’ve been having about the causes, as it were, and potential solutions (which I agree with Jeff S. have never been tried and will never be, given the way things are going).

    I think the paradigm of evolution must work across biological systems (as Dredd likes to keep reminding us), and that only makes sense in the context of complex adaptive systems. I like to say that the laws of complexity followed the laws of physics; looking at the planet without biological life forms indicates a complex system. Together with biological life, it is a more expansive system. Human society should’ve self-organised in a manner colinear with how complex systems behave (which is how every other species on this planet has self organised, including of course organisms such as a archaea and bacteria but also others such as dolphins, elephants, other primates, and even the dinosaurs). I believe some societies did attempt this (and humans themselves were organised like this up to a point) but the capitalist economic system is what has taken over this planet currently. The political system of representative democracy also attempts this in a top down manner but that is unlikely to work and in any event economics dominates over politics, and capitalist economies magnify short term thinking to exponentially destructive ends as we are witnessing. Since no human society has existed long enough on an evolutionary timescale it is hard to say which approaches would’ve worked, but i think it is fair to say that some approaches were never given a chance. The arguments put forth by Wester, oldgrowthforest, David Higham, et al. have persuaded me in the context of my own work on complex biological systems—what matters for any approach are really exponential effects, and anything that causes exponential deviations in trajectories. And unfortunately, I mean this quite literally, the odds of such an effect not happening are low at any given point in the trajectory due to their chaotic nature but it is possible (as is demonstrated by evolution).

    As Engels, Marx, Kiekegaard, Sartre, the Wachowski brothers, etc. appear to indicate, higher levels of complexity arise from lower levels but this “higher” and “lower” statement is fraught with anthropocentric (and telelogic, a word Dredd likes to overuse :)) connotations. There’re just different levels and they all depend on each other. I’ve said that both the universe and evolution is fractal but this is based what I see now: what obviously gets selected against are systems that are not capable of existing in a sustainable manner. A single eukaryotic cell, such as the type found in various protozoa, can divide indefinitely and live as a single organism, or groups of cells can work together as a multicellular organism with programmed and signalled cell death.

    Limits to Growth warned us of the dangers and consequences of exponential growth in a quantitative manner. Krishnamurti told us to reject ideologies.
    How sustainability is achieved is up to the systems involved. One organism’s waste is another organism’s food. Some events are opportunities in the making. Perhaps once the current trajectory of humanity terminates (and I think near term projections are too optimistic and don’t account for the resilience and opportunism inherent in the species) there will be a species referring to this time as the CO2 catastrophe, just as the oxygen catastrophe was really an opportunity for aerobic organisms.

    I know colleagues trying to attempt all sorts of things from a genetic perspective: from engineering plant pathways in animals to solving aging related consequences, to just engineering organisms not seen in nature. I’m also aware of some geoengineering approaches. It remains to be seen how desperate people will get as the limits to exponential growth become fully apparent and while I appreciate their science like I appreciate all science, I wonder how they are going to be able to account for all exponential effects of our behaviour, or not cause their own problems that are magnified exponentially.

  • Wester,

    Thanks for the destruction of woo. Beautiful collection of decent honest individuals! There have been so many down thru the years.

  • To all who perceive my discussion with Ram as ‘woo’-let me clarify that I have very little interest in spiritual discussion and zero interest in transcendence- spiritual or otherwise. Transcendence is a false trail and the desire for it is another symptom of this ‘disease’ which is this context of fear. Neither do I have very much interest in philosophy. My only interest is a practical solution to the individual and collective misery of human life. When the fear and it’s effects are gone life exactly as it is is seen to be exactly what we have always wanted-a gift. This act of looking that I am suggesting snuffs out this context and allows us to become fully human -living a life of excellence. We become fully engaged with life in a way that is deeply satisfying and our innate capacity for self reliance emerges. To my mind it is the most radical act that any person can undertake. It is eminently practical. It is also very difficult to speak of- but if there is a failure to see it’s utility – then that failure to communicate clearly lies with me

    The arising of a creature such as humanity is wondrous. The capacity for self awareness would seem to have little evolutionary advantage. That this creature should snuff itself out is sorrowful being belief. 9

  • (Typo)..Beyond belief

  • Here you go, something to brighten your day:

    http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/mysterious-remains-of-a-whale-found-in-a-field-in-utah/

    Mysterious Remains of A Whale Found in a Field in Utah

    Farmington| A dairy farmer from a small town near the Great Salt Lake in Utah, made an incredible discovery on his property while he was looking for one of his cows that had not returned. 69-year old Michael Woodson, found a 12 meter long humpback whale laying lifeless in the middle of one of his fields, hundreds of kilometers away its natural habitat.

    The Farmington City Police was called on the site to investigate, since the farmer thought that the cetacean could have been left there as a creepy prank by some neighborhood youngsters. The investigators rapidly dismissed the possibility however, as no traces of vehicles or machinery large enough to carry it were found anywhere near the animal. The police admits that they are almost clueless at the moment as to how the marine mammal found its way on Mr. Woodson’s property.

    “We have to admit that we find this case very puzzling” said Captain Terry Dawson from the Farmington police. “It is certainly the first time that we see anything like this in our city, and we have very little information for now as to how the animal got there.”

    A few witnesses have reported seeing some strange flying object in the area over the last two days and the authorities have confirmed that the 911 operators have received a few dozen calls from all over the region reporting such sightings, but they refuse to link both events for the moment. [read the rest]

    and here’s a little recap of last month’s weather around the world:

    http://www.sott.net/article/289890-SOTT-Earth-Changes-Video-Summary-November-2014

  • William Butler Yeats (1865-1939)

    THE SECOND COMING

    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Surely some revelation is at hand;
    Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
    The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
    When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
    Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
    A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
    A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
    Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
    Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.

    The darkness drops again but now I know
    That twenty centuries of stony sleep
    Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
    And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

  • What now should we do, those of us who have fully digested the human situation and its portents? Here are some suggestions for a Monday morning.

    Revel in ambiguity.
    Embrace paradox.
    Delight in difference.
    Refrain from blame.
    Hold space for all that is.
    Lie down in Rumi’s Field – those who will find you there are your natural traveling companions.

  • Hello, longtime reader. This blog surely is a wild ride. Just was wondering why a portion of the Q&A session was muted (apparently?), thanks!

  • Mistakes have been made, Reader. This is an all-volunteer program.

  • Tom,

    Your whale gets around, but seems to have really started (or ended) in England.
    No need to consult the Fortean Society’s archives,
    or get hold of spec sheets that list payload capacities for large helicopters.
    Maybe next time though…

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2043105/How-did-Sei-whale-beached-middle-field-East-Yorkshire.html

    It was either this or Kirk Douglas’ “Whale of a Tale” song from 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea…so, sorry, Captain Kirk, but Laurie’s got the cetacean goods…the concatenated song is “Speechless” (aka The Eagle and the Weasel), not from the same album.
    .
    .
    .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUbjy80Yt8M
    .
    .
    .

    3 x 6 = eighteen puts me on the endangered species list ?
    Oh, wait…the Republicans are back…makes some sense now.

  • “This is what is taking place now. The corporate state and its organs of internal security are illegitimate. We are a society of captives.” http://www.truthdig.com/chris_hedges/

  • I figured something odd happened because it cut out for a bit after the soundless portion. Thank you for the quick response, Guy.

    Watching that video last night has inspired me to give my response, my experience. I read this blog at work and usually don’t watch any of the media portions. The only other video I had seen was a Q&A at a small college where it seemed most of the dull audience was there to pick up some extra credit points or something so it was nice to see such an energetic response to this one.

    I have yet to reach a quarter century so I would think I am one of the younger NBL readers. My freshman year in college I had stumbled upon Joe Romm and for two years I regularly read his blog. At the time, even his blog was depressing to me and I always had a feeling that Romm was overly optimistic (perhaps for the sake of his children). I soaked up as much as I could about climate science and it has been a huge interest to me ever since. I would go weeks without reading about climate or even the news, but I would always come back.

    I wanted to do something with my life that was meaningful. I wanted to tackle the ‘problems’ of our age. I sought out the largest ‘obstacles’ humanity faced and began thinking about them. Very quickly this became an overwhelming task. I was not one to look at singular issues and conclude their singular importance. I wanted to see the whole picture. Everything is interconnected. Cause and effect going back to t=0. Difficult to untangle everything and I kept arriving at myself. Looking at myself in the mirror. The behaviors that this body exhibited. The destructive habits that could be identified and analyzed, but remained unbroken.

    Vegetarian for eleven months, done for “The good of the planet!”, fizzled easily. Occupy came through and excitement peaked. Two years earlier, psychedelics had opened the door to a growing awareness. But this was different. Sober, in a circle, making decisions and attempting to encourage a political resistance to the state of things. Lack of interest from fellow students was disturbing to me. People don’t give a fuck. Even my progressive friends who would at least listen to my warnings about climate change were not drawn to action. The most active students in Occupy (on my campus) were those that decided to overturn tents or drive by screaming “We are the 1%!” “We are the 1%!”. Well, isn’t that pleasant. Depression set in. Now, I don’t give a fuck.

    Since starting college the depression has been cyclical. Something that I have learned to deal with. Something I look upon as a new opportunity to find something within myself or learn something about this world. Unfortunately, accompanying this state (and reinforcing it) is quite often excessive drinking, smoking, and partying. No compassion, no feeling. Not caring if you hurt others or hurt yourself. Hedonistic nihilism is how I like to phrase it. Everything was handed to you and now things are tough and now life’s frustrations set upon you. It took me a while to realize that it is okay to make ‘mistakes’ that everything will not flow smoothly. Doesn’t mean you have to give up immediately and throw yourself back into a period of bacchanal indulgence.

    I began reading this blog about a year out of school… I forget how I came upon it. These pages consumed me for a long while. Everything I was thinking and everything I *wanted* (needed?) to read was here. There are other people out there. You are not alone. This place reaffirmed many things for me. It opened a whole new world and forced the tip of my toe into the pool of acceptance. Acceptance of what is. So obvious, but easy to miss. We are hilariously easy to distract. Back to the beginning and from here a fresh start. And there will be many ‘fresh starts’ as this process will simply repeat itself over and over again.

    I wouldn’t say that I have ‘evolved’ or ‘progressed’ very far. Most of the past six years have been exercises in mental masturbation. Reading and thinking and reading and thinking. No doing. I can no longer allow the thinking brain (the ego, what have you) to consume my energies. But I have taken to the road of action and wish to make resistance my permanent labor. This upcoming February I will begin traveling the US. I will be visiting East Wind Community (southern Missouri) for three weeks. I plan to visit Twin Oaks as well as others (I have not fully fleshed out my schedule yet). I would love to visit any homestead, collective, or interesting person along the way. I can labor for food and board. If you know of a place or have a place that you think might work out let me know here in the comments. I am not on the forum.

  • Paul Chefurka,

    VERY nicely summarized! A great thought for the day.

  • 600% Revelling, Embracing and Delighting.

    my kinda RED!

    gimme some crass drunken
    stupor of transcendence
    some light cone light
    speed of resplendence
    fighting the golden
    sweating angel of blind fights

    tickled feathered
    burned out sputtering flight
    we are the sparkling
    wonders of the night
    laughing in Rumi’s
    lap dance of delight

  • Tom Says:
    December 7th, 2014 at 2:54 pm

    Two more great talks, Guy! i’m listening to the responses in the Q & A and it seems almost everyone is in denial …
    =============================================
    Not just in denial to Dr. McPherson, but to other important things too.

    China just became the world’s largest economy.

    That is, the U.S. is no longer number one (Economic War Of The Pacific – 4). This happened years sooner than expected.

    On another front, the Saudis have declared war on U.S. fracking for the wrong reasons (Another Sign of Another Layer in the Oil Wars? – 2). That war has nothing to do with the dying environment civilization is destroying.

    Those you mentioned in the videos, who are heavy hopium users, and who think doomium is the worst, will see less and less of government involvement as the U.S. economy continues to wither “worse that previously expected.”

  • Paul, I agree with those sentiments mostly and disagree with just a bit.

    “You’ve gotta dance like there’s nobody watching,
    Love like you’ll never be hurt,
    Sing like there’s nobody listening,
    And live like it’s heaven on earth.” –William W. Purkey

  • Now here is a message to MR Mann right from the german media http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/natur/braunkohle-boom-in-der-lausitz-warum-die-billig-energie-riskant-ist-a-970690.html (google will translate it for you ) what it sayz is basically the highest electricity generation since the unification of germany from the dirtiest kohl, lignite and braun kohl . The Musterbeispiel of the german green economy Mr Mann our happy cheerful friend here is your hail mary german example for you . besides displacement of people whole villages and the absolute impossibility indicated to reach co2 reduction goals to 2020 ..they have planned .

  • You might also being interested to know that in the German sleng “Kohle” stands for Money they refer to Kohl as money that shows its very essence also shows that it will be pursued until the very end .
    PS
    another sleng “Neger”-“being a nigro” means “to be broke” …..so go figure
    some German for you

  • I was meaning to say “COAL” please forgive me My bad

  • last comment

  • i always thought that’ll Stop’em flop’n

  • Reader: on perusing your honest response, you have a lot going for you!

    Not many people are aware of the predicament we’re in and, like
    me, you tried to alert your friends and associates but found
    that nobody wants to stop the dream we’re living (which is
    actually a nightmare to the environment and most other
    species). You’ve (at least temporarily) overcome the urge to
    take solace in drugs and “get away” from what was bothering you
    rather than facing hardship head-on – a laudable accomplish-
    ment. You’re dedication will be tested, but you’ll find the
    heart to persevere. i’ll talk to someone i know (on-line) in
    Missouri and see what i can do to help you on your way (no
    promises).

  • @ Reader Says:
    December 8th, 2014 at 11:30 am

    Outstanding reasoning from one of such “tender” years. If only I and many others had been as perceptive in “our” youth… Yet, that was not “the plan” and that was not “available” at the time. I am 62 and, if I had had offspring, I’d be delighted beyond measure to hear/read such similar thoughts from them! At your discretion, I am golfwalker at hotmail, and I will be responsive to any exploration you, or any of your ilk, wish to endeavor regarding the depth and breadth of the “rabbit hole.” Regardless, do not allow yourself to be swayed by “belief(s),” the “origin” of which being irrelevant, as “belief” is like “fear,” it is the “little death” that threatens to consume and overwhelm you (h/t Frank Herbert). Let it pass and clarity of vision may be the result. Otherwise, “good luck,” as you’re going to need it in abundance.

  • I will be blunt. transcendence fucking kicks ass.

    RC –

    that is some pure liquid ear love. some kung fu back at ya.

  • Reader- thanks, that was eloquent… & expressive of your journey so far.
    I hope you keep us abreast of your travels, your generation is not represented here as far as I can tell.

    If you end up in western NC, check out http://wildroots.org/ … a primitive skills commune of sorts. Happy trails 🙂

    “you pawned off your world so your cars won’t stall…”

  • Regarding the research on the 10 year time between CO2 emissions and temperature increase, I find the last two sentences in the papers ‘Abstract’ and ‘conclusion’ to be rather odd and inappropriate for a scientific research paper:

    “Our results indicate that benefit from avoided climate damage from avoided CO2 emissions will be manifested within the lifetimes of people who acted to avoid that emission. While such avoidance could be expected to benefit future generations, there is potential for emissions avoidance to provide substantial benefit to current generations.”

    “The primary time lag limiting efforts to diminish future climate change may be the time scales associated with political consensus (Victor 2011) and with energy system transitions (Smil 2010), and not time lags in the physical climate system. While the relevant time lags imposed by the climate system are substantially shorter than a human lifetime, they are substantially longer than the typical political election cycle, making these delays and their associated uncertainties important, both economically and politically. Nonetheless, our study indicates that people alive today are very likely to benefit from emissions avoided today.”

    http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/9/12/124002/article

  • I try not to be irritated or frustrated by what happens at these presentations (I only watch a few). The participants are normal folks who are basically walking into a buzz saw, whether they know it or not. Reactions are honest if poorly considered. So speaking in a series of platitudes, as most of the folks in the Q&A do, can’t really be too objectionable.

    OTOH, the tone of the presenters, including Guy sometimes, is really incongruous with the message (not the answer to “what do we do?” which is skirted, but rather the desolate realization that whatever is left for us doesn’t have a shred of hope in changing the outcome), to which I do object. The overmodulated voices and talking-to-children-about-Jesus feel are really irksome. There has to be a better approach. On a positive note, though, I suppose the avoidance of heated debate and acceptance of all viewpoints works pretty well, considering no one is likely to be won if laying out the scientific perspective doesn’t already work.

  • Daniel

    Thank you for raising the matter of the ‘time lag’ between CO2 emissions and the effects (twice).

    I have already made a comment on the basis of the spectroscopy I studied at university, i.e. the effect is both instantaneous and cumulative for both CO2 and CH4 (though the conversion of CH4 into CO2 complicates matters immensely).

    The first item you linked talked about pulses of CO2 and peaks [in temperature] that re barely peaks, and models.

    The second item you linked talks about ‘the median time between an emission and maximum warming is 10.1 years, with a 90% probability range of 6.6–30.7 years.’

    Although this is quite interesting from a theoretical perspective it has little to do with the world we are living in.

    In the real world there are no pulses of CO2, well none of any significance: there is a continuous release of CO2 at a rate higher than natural systems can process it, and the rate of release has been increasing.

    The effect up to this moment can be thought of as the area under the effect-time graph minus heat losses, And the effect in the future can be thought of as the area under the future effect-time graph minus heat losses.

    With increasing emissions and declining capacity of the Earth to process emissions we must expect the area under the graph to become very large, and keep increasing until warming matches loss of heat into space at some very much higher temperature than now.

    I spent many years teaching physics, and I believe a speed-time graph provides a reasonable analogy for our CO2 predicament.

    If an object is moving at constant speed, the area under the graph is a rectangle and corresponds to the distance travelled.

    If an object start from rest and experiences constant acceleration the area under the graph is a triangle, and again corresponds to the distance trave3lle.

    For an object that was travelling at constant speed which is then subject to constant acceleration the area under the graph is a rectangle plus another similar rectangle plus a triangle.

    Under constant acceleration the speed increases and the time interval columns under the graph increase in area.

    I would first like to compare our situation to sitting in a car that was travelling at constant speed but then the accelerator pedal is depressed a little: the car speeds up until frictional work matches the increased energy conversion of the engine (fuel used faster to overcome friction).

    Now we consider the situation in which we are in a car and the accelerator pedal is depressed to an ever greater extent, i.e. ever greater amounts of energy are provided: the car does not reach constant speed but continues to accelerate. i.e. there is no peak in speed.

    In practice this can never happen, of course, because every mechanical device has an upper limit.

    In the real world of geochemistry/geophysics the question are these: how much sequestered carbon can humans desequester before the economic system collapses? And how hot will the Earth get before the absorption-reradiation effect of greenhouse gases matches the rate of loss of heat into space? (i.e. some future steady state, prior to slow-acting geochemical systems removing the huge excess of CO2).

    I hope I have not bored scientists or bamboozled non-scientists.

    Repeating: the effect of CO2 is both instantaneous and cumulative. And so is th3e effect of Ch4.

    And since CH$ effectively does not decay (in fact is increasing) I still postulate that the UNIPCC relative warming factors are inappropriate for time scales that matter.

    If someone can prove me wrong I will be very happy to be proven wrong.

  • China has become the largest economy: this means that it converts more resources to products (and then to wastes) for any given time period than anyone else. A growing economy is an economy that is increasing the rate of this conversion.

    Transcendence: a wild goose chase. Water does not need transcendence to be wet. Fire does not need transcendence to be hot and bright. No sentient being needs transcendence to be itSelf. The Self of all selves does not “meet” anyone, even in Jalaluddin Rumi’s field, just as a fish does not “become” wet.

    The only valid spirituality is found in bottles. Realisation cannot be “attained”: the most one can do is set the sails. The wind will blow of its own accord. However, “Blessed are the pure of heart, for they SHALL see God”, not “might see”.

    Each sentient being is given to see a (small) clip of film, which masquerades as reality within its window of time and space.

  • Haven’t visited for a while, good to be back…
    Kevin is doing a real job teasing out the detail of emissions and acceleration thereof.

    Reader at less than a quarter century is definitely in the new (young) elder class.

    Brutus makes some great reflections on the fine lines of marketing/propagandizing to get “the message” out. But really, the real issue IMO is we’re dealing with the “civilised”, and we’re mostly stuck in a consensus trance bubble and unreachable. If it’s down to the quality of our ability to break the trance, then we’re really really screwed. Remember, we’re not dealing with homo sapiens here, we’re dealing with homo colossus aka homo economicus. Most of us are here on this blog because by some miracle, we’ve broken through enough toxic hubris, to realise if things don’t change way sooner than later, it’s likely/certainly to be curtains for all life as we’ve known it.

    Marketing and propaganda have mostly been the reason we’ve been sleep walking into this “civilised” endgame. I’m not sure it’s going to get us out:
    1. I have a sense of urgency that says we ran out of time for that quite a while back. The cultural inertia we’re locked into means collapse is baked into the cake.
    2. We’re dealing with the “civilised” and they are stuck in high level entitle-ism aka entitle-itis (BY DESIGN).
    3. The corporations/banksters/elites are happy to farm us for as long as they can, until they can’t, and everything and everyone is screwed.
    4. Remnant indigenous folks have been pointing out “we” are crazy and insane for some time. IMO they hold a lot of the secrets to how to really live sustainably, but because they are “un-civilised” we “civilised” tend to ignore them (BY DESIGN).

    Why are we in such a bind?:
    “Thwart the ‘civilised’ and they will grin from ear to ear, as they rip you limb from limb.”
    “The dominant culture is insane and unreachable, as are most of it’s inhabitants. It has a death urge. It is pathological and suicidal. It wants to kill everyone and everything, including itself. And it will do so, unless we stop it.”
    Derrick Jensen

    When a really huge mass resistance movement starts to form and kick ass everywhere “civilised”, maybe then we’ll see the toxic hubris of “civilisation” questioned.

    Sure is an “exciting time” to be alive, eh?!!!

  • For those of you interested in the psychological and sociological manifestations of Collapse, I just got up an Interview we did on the Collapse Cafe with Mark Garavan from FEASTA.

    Psychology & Sociology of Collapse: Interview with Mark Garavan

    RE

  • for just the right person on your holiday shopping list:

    http://fancy.com/things/260810945/BP-Oil-Spill-Snow-Globes?prtnr=cj

    BP Oil Spill Snow Globes
    [hat tip Andy in San Diego over at Robert Scribbler’s site]

    https://robertscribbler.com/2014/12/08/mauna-loa-methane-measure-shows-rising-rates-of-increase-through-end-2014/

    Mauna Loa Methane Measure Shows Rising Rates of Increase Through End 2014

    Atmospheric methane levels as measured by the Mauna Loa Observatory (MLO) showed a continued steepening rate of increase through late 2014 — featuring one rather troubling spike late last month.

    The measure, which has been recording atmospheric methane levels since the middle of the 20th Century, continued to ramp higher with readings hitting an average of 1850 parts per billion by late November.

    Notably, this increase is at a faster pace than yearly averages for all of the last decade.

    In addition, a single spike to 1910 parts per billion took place last month. This large departure of 60 parts per billion above the average was somewhat unusual for the Mauna Loa measure. The collection site is rather far from human or Arctic emissions sources which makes it less likely to feature anomalous spikes due to local influences. This particular spike also represents the largest single departure from the base line measure since 1984 (when the ESRL record begins).
    [read the rest – comments too]

  • 2 cents
    Life is simple: James Hansen wants you to get 100% of your carbon taxes back, Bill McKibben and Naomi Klein do not. Don’t believe me? Then ask them, if you are able, that’s why the Rockefellers fund 350.org. When governments and corporations get control of carbon taxes, we’re finished.

    In, “Years Of Living Dangerously” we learned the Indonesian mafia killed all the elephants in a nature preservation park just to get rid of the need for a park. These guys clear cuts trees, plant palm-oil trees, and sell it to put into gasoline in Europe. They make money selling wood, collecting tax carbon credits and selling the palm-oil to burn in cars. Win-win-win.

    In, “Virunga” on Netflix, we learned the Congolese mineral mafia is killing off the last Mountain Gorillas so that the need for a national park will cease to exist. Cell phones don’t run on love, you can ask the 2 million children murdered there since 1998, or the 1 million Iraqi children our oil embargo killed in the 1990s. People may think me misanthropic, but that’s not true, some of my best friends are people.

    Money used to be metal coins, now money is storage of metallic-mineral pulses. If you are confused by money, metal and climate, then try to think in terms of the mass of all the metals, minerals and elements — energy demand doubles by 2060 — emissions need to drop 80% by 2030 — peak minerals and peak energy hits at the same time we want to produce billions of tons or toxic lead, liquid metal or molten salt batteries — we can’t have hi-tech green energy without heavy rare earth elements and we can’t have heavy rare earth elements without digging up thorium as a radioactive waste — the only solution is to get emissions free power from plentiful thorium so we can create a better hi-tech green energy world — this is important because we are approaching post-peak minerals where we would be unable to afford large enough scales in mining, which even alone can entail collapse. The peak is a short time of several plus years.

    WEIGHTY STUFF
    ► Humans and livestock were 0.01% of land vertebrate biomass 10,000 yrs. ago.
    ► Humans and our livestock are now 97% of land vertebrate biomass.
    ►Humans and our livestock eat over 40% of land chlorophyll biomas
    ► When we eat over half of nature’s green stuff, bad things happen to bio-diversity.
    ► 1,000,000 humans, net, are added to earth every 4½ days.
    ► 50% of vertebrate species died off in the last 50 years.
    ► 50% of remaining vertebrate species will die off in the next 40 years.
    ► +50% = Unstoppable Irreversible Catastrophic Cascading Extinctions Collapse.
    ► 75% Species Loss = Mass Extinction.
    ► Ocean acidification doubles by 2050, triples by 2100.
    ►World Bank says we have 5-10 years before we all fight for food and water.

    ► 90% of Big Ocean Fish gone since 1950.
    ► 90% of Lions gone since 1993.
    ► 90% of Monarch Butterflies gone since 1995.
    ► 75% of Freshwater & Riverbank Species gone since 1970. **
    ► 50% of Great Barrier Reef gone since 1985.
    ► 50% of Human Sperm Counts gone since 1950.
    ► 50% of Fresh Water Fish gone since 1987.
    ► 40% of Giraffes gone since 2000.
    ► 30% of Marine Birds gone since 1995.
    ► 28% of Land Animals gone since 1970.
    ► 28% of All Marine Animals gone since 1970.
    ► 93 Elephants killed every single day.
    ► 2-3 Rhinos killed every single day.
    ► Bees die from malnutrition lacking bio-diverse pollen sources.
    ** ► 75,000 dams block U.S. rivers.
    ► In just 13 years, we will “lock in” an inevitable near term 6°C earth temp rise because we continually exceed the worse-case emissions scenario set out back in 2007 says climate scientist, Dr. Michael Jennings.

    ► Energy demands to increase 100% by 2060 says the IEA.
    ► Emissions have to decrease 80% by 2030 says climate scientist, Kevin Anderson.
    ► To power England with 100% solar & wind, requires 25% of its land says physicist, David MacKay in 2012. Even with recent improvements, it’s still a lot of land.
    ► 40% Green Energy requires 200% more copper says John Timmer of Ars Technica.
    ► Peak copper hits 2030 – 2040 says Ugo Bardi.
    ► Post peak copper production cannot accelerate at any price says Dave Lowell.
    ► This is true of any post peak mineral production.
    ► There is no real substitute for copper says Mat McDermott of Motherboard.
    ► We mined 50% of all the copper in human history in just the last 30 years.
    ► 100% green energy requires 500% more copper.
    ► Peak minerals includes more than just copper.
    ► By 2050, expect to be past peaks for tin, silver, cadmium and more.
    ► We move some 3 billion tons of earth per year to get 15 millions tons of copper.
    ► We can’t afford to mine 500% more copper at ever lower concentrations.
    ► We cannot recycle it into existence.
    ► We cannot conserve it into existence.
    ► Substituting aluminum for copper takes 5X the energy and is less safe.
    ► Google’s own Stanford Phd, green energy experts, Ross Koningstein and David Fork, tell IEEE Spectrum why green energy “simply won’t work” and is a “false dream”.
    ► Ozzie Zehner explains his book, Green Illusions, at Google Talks in 2012.

    ► Green Energy is our solution to Climate Change.
    ► But, Climate Change is only 1 of 6 Direct Drivers for Mass Extinction.
    ► The 6 Direct Drivers of Mass Extinction are:
    … 1) Invasive Species
    … 2) Over-Population
    … 3) Over-Exploitation
    … 4) Habitat Loss
    ….5) Climate Change
    ….6) Pollution

    ► Therefore,… GREEN ENERGY WILL NOT STOP MASS EXTINCTION
    http://www.cultureunplugged.com/documentary/watch-online/play/7350/Call-of-Life–Facing-the-Mass-Extinction

    ► Tim Garrett explains why money can’t decouple from carbon emissions growth, and how economic growth makes the world hot, as well as how efficiency and conservation only results in more growth.

    ABOUT ME: My name is Robert Callaghan.
    I am a highly uncredentialed 56-year-old male who cuts grass for a living in a trailer park in Canada, the reason i know all this is because i woke up hungover with my dog licking my face using mental telepathy to explain that space aliens want to use him to tell to me to tell you that we only got one shot left and it has to be a bullseye.

    Here are some of the typical “liberal” reactions to what my dog is saying.
    Quit Barking Up The Wrong Tree?… No-o-o, Seriously!
    These reactions do not differ from FOX NEWS tactics.
    ► J’Accuse! Oil Troll! Nuclear Troll! etc.
    ►”Your information is inaccurate and outdated”, this may be, but most exciting “new” discoveries never make it to production, and old methods of production do not stop because they are merely somewhat outdated and post-peak minerals affects everything.
    ► Misdirect focus on just one or two points to the exclusion of the b-i-g picture.
    ► Focus attention on my character and motives instead of the facts. That doesn’t work because I am a low-life mangy cur who just doesn’t give a damn. LMAO!
    ► Attack the facts.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t__55YiQ9Qshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t__55YiQ9Qs

  • Methane release from warm waters off Northwest US coast:

    http://phys.org/news/2014-12-warmer-pacific-ocean-millions-tons.html#nRlv

    No mention here at all of checking for radiation from Fukushima:

    http://phys.org/news/2014-12-scientists-tsunami-debris-invasives.html

  • This one i like to tell our other “happy cheerful friend” who is also somewhat knowledgeable and appears to be a smarteass probable due to sitting on his ass for to long in a higher education facility in the Part Three – Anthropogenic Climate Change: Q&A&Comments on 10 minute mark . That he can have his head up his you know where and reciting invalid historical comparisons this time it is utterly completely and impossibly different . http://ponziworld.blogspot.ca/2014/12/new-rome-versus-old-rome.html and this one only on the economics front of things

  • And this one again to our “Other other cheerful happy friend” Mr Mann who is so enamored by the German Green energy industry now in english so he can understand it better http://damnthematrix.wordpress.com/2014/12/07/abundant-clean-renewables-think-again/ Not that he want to undersand ? No! He just happy to run around sprinkeling pixie dust for hope and cashing in for it . In the form of government grants probably also some big energy handouts under the table

  • From the NW methane release piece;

    (also explains the massive dead zones up and down the coast.)

    “For the past few years, curious fishermen have sent UW oceanographers sonar images showing mysterious columns of bubbles. Solomon and Johnson just returned from a cruise to check out some of those sites at depths where Solomon believes they could be caused by warming water.
    “Those images the fishermen sent were 100 percent accurate,” Johnson said. “Without them we would have been shooting in the dark.”
    Johnson and Solomon are analyzing data from that cruise to pinpoint what’s triggering this seepage, and the fate of any released methane. The recent sightings of methane bubbles rising to the sea surface, the authors note, suggests that at least some of the seafloor gas may reach the surface and vent to the atmosphere.”

  • It is amazing how inappropriate and off the mark is the metaphor of the Titanic, which Peter Melton proposes in “Part 3 – Anthropogenic Climate Change: Q&AComments.” It directly contradicts the very title of the three part video presentation linked here, which is “Anthropogenic Climate Change.”

    To listen to Peter, this catastrophic event (anthropogenic climate change) is morally neutral. According to his metaphor we all just happen to be passive and innocent passengers on this boat as it happens to hit the iceberg of abrupt climate change and of the ensuing sixth (and final) great extinction event on planet Earth.

    But as the term “anthropogenic” clearly implies, nothing could be further from the truth. Humans, the passengers, (to one degree or another) all together caused the disaster. Even worse, the consequences of their current ongoing actions, are harming other living things, now, and will continue to harm any living things that are still around after humans are gone.

    I greatly appreciate Guy McPherson’s work. On the other hand, I think his message is being cast within a framework (the grief counseling approach), which offers a way out of self-reflection and self-responsibility.

    After all, if that data is factual, the end of life on Earth as we know it, is inevitable and will come true regardless of whether anyone is aware or warned in advanced. The message is only meaningful if it changes those who hear it and how they act towards other living things and the living planet. But the grief counseling approach lets those who hear the message stay exactly in the place where most have been living and from which they have been acting, focused on themselves and on pursuing their own comfort and gratification.

    Guy’s message that we must STOP harming the living planet, gets diluted, muted and subverted by the message that one needs to take care of oneself, and attend to one’s feelings and comfort. But the unbridled “pursuit of happiness,” the greedy pursuit of perceived self-interest and self-gratification at the expense of all other living things and of the living planet, is the root of anthropogenic climate change. What is taking place is really an ethical apocalypse.

    If the message is delivered in such a way that its ability to accomplish its goal (change in behavior towards living things and the living planet) is sabotaged, then the message is irrelevant.

    That’s right. If anyone really thinks that it is over for humans on this planet, regardless of anything we do, then everything humans do for themselves is futile, pointless, useless. The only things of value that humans can do is to ACT to try to stop or at least reduce the suffering of other living things, and to try to help other living things live on after we are gone. Nothing else matters. STOP DOING HARM. Whatever it takes. As best as you can. YOU DON’T MATTER ANYMORE. YOU ARE ALREADY DEAD.

  • Apologies for the typing errors in previous comment.

    Here’s an update on one of many local econ0mic disasters (which can be interpreted as good news).

    Whereas NZ dairy farmers who have family farms and have been careful in their management may survive the onslaught, those who have taken on debt or have squandered the receipts of the good times on outlandish mansions and overseas holidays will be in deep trouble.

    It has been speculated that the break-even point for an average dairy farmer is a pay-out of $4.70/kg. Guess what?

    ‘Fonterra’s 2014-15 payout forecast reduced to $4.70/kgMS from $5.30; NZD falls in immediate reaction

    Posted in Rural News December 10, 2014 – 08:44am,

    Fonterra Co-operative Group Limited today reduced its forecast Farmgate Milk Price for the 2014/15 season from $5.30 per kgMS to $4.70 per kgMS. When combined with the previously announced estimated dividend range of 25-35 cents per share, this amounts to a forecast Cash Payout of $4.95 – $5.05 for the current season.

    Chairman John Wilson said that although farmers were expecting this lower forecast, the revision will put pressure on their farming business budgets.

    “There is still considerable volatility in global dairy markets,” said Mr Wilson.

    “Right now we are seeing a number of factors that are delaying a sustained return to higher global prices.”

    The global milk supply remains greater than demand, which has resulted in GlobalDairyTrade prices for Whole Milk Powder falling 16.9 per cent since late September, while Skim Milk Powder prices have fallen 7.7 per cent.

    http://www.interest.co.nz/rural-news/73296/fonterras-2014-15-payout-forecast-reduced-470kgms-530-nzd-falls-immediate-reaction

    I found this item on the same website a little curious:

    ‘OIL RUSH ?

    Fifteen new new oil and gas exploration permits were awarded today. That includes six onshore permits across the Taranaki, West Coast and East Coast basins, and nine offshore permits across the Reinga-Northland, Taranaki, and Pegasus basins. Three of the winners are new to New Zealand exploration. Collectively the permits represent more than $110 million in committed expenditure on initial exploration which, if successful, could lead to further work worth more than $1 bln.’

    It’s difficult to believe anyone will be rushing to spend money to extract difficult oil when Brent is trading at under %67. Of course that could change, up or down. After all, we have reached the point at which nothing economic or political makes any sense, except from the perspective that we are governed by madmen (and women), and they make irrational decisions based on war is peace and ignorance is strength.

  • treenoise, you’re confusing happiness induced by hedonism with joy. And you’ve no clue what grief is about. The latter is no surprise, in this grief-denying culture, afflicted by myths about grieving.

  • treenoise

    I largely agree with you.

    Since our so-called leaders are lying to us in order to make everything worse faster, I believe our efforts should be directed towards exposing them as liars, and should be directed towards minimising future suffering, both for human and non-human.

    But I’ve already said that about 15 times.

    The putrid infection that is central government and local government is forming a boil which is going to burst in the not-too-distant future, as credibility vanishes along with the environment and the economy. No system based on propaganda, deceit, money=printing, squandering of energy and resources and transfer of wealth from the many to the few can last for long.

  • Guy, I think that upon a more careful reading of my post you will realize that your first assessment is mistaken (I do not confuse joy with hedonism). As to your declaration that I have “no clue what grief is about,” I can only say that I am disappointed that you would make such a statement without knowing me (and therefore without knowing the facts). You have only known about “grieving” since January of 2014. Do you really think that qualifies you to judge others? (By the way, I am only responding to you here, so that the other readers can know that you are not all knowing and infallible about everything–even if I do value your scientific opinion and the information that you provide on your blog.)

    Kevin Moore, I do think that those who spend so much energy blaming others might be doing so in order to avoid acknowledging their own responsibility and in order to avoid changing their own behavior–and in so doing, they also continue empowering the very institutions and individuals they criticize in words.

  • treenoise, I agree self-reflection, self-criticism, and self-responsibility are important but I don’t agree that the message on this forum (and anything stated by Guy) in any way takes away from that. If the goal is truly to not cause harm at all and minimise harm, then the approach suggested by Pat (Voluntary Extinction Movement/Church of Euthanasia) would be the way to go (this also applies to some of the other conclusions you draw). Who’s going to go first? Assuming you agree with me that that’s not a viable idea, then I think at this point all we can do is bear witness: everything is already in motion. It’s only a matter of what goes first.

    I don’t really know what “woo” is supposed to represent since I’m not “spiritual” in the slightest but I’m surprised that those that do (and others as well, for that matter) didn’t bite on the hippy flipping remark? Candy flipping then? Do you just eat just one thing or a mix? Why stop with psilocybin or DMT individually when you can mix them and add a potent disassociative to the mix, to truly free your mind and see what it’s like. Then you can determine whether you actually travel to another dimension or another universe filled with aliens instead of second guessing whether you were dreaming or dreaming of you. But these compounds are small molecules with a small number of atoms—all they represent are keys. Whatever doors they unlock lie within you. Or you could be like how the great sage and philosopher, Reagan (the better half, Nancy), or my friend and co-woo-experimenter mo flow, said: no to drugs.

    Shulgin I believe said it better (and best), when he remarked that the experiences that result from ingesting these compounds aren’t locked within the compounds but within your own mind. As a scientist, I’m the first to admit science doesn’t have all the answers but the point is that whatever evidence is obtained using science, it is by the means of doing controls which provide context or a frame of reference. In language, context provides meaning. Likewise, controls provide meaning. Without controls, it can be anything: technology, engineering, medicine, information, astrology, numerology, mysticism, but it is not science IMO.

    I’m into all kinds of transcendentalism: Socratean/Platonic, Hegelian, Kantian, Kiekegaardian, Nietzschean, Sartrean, Lilliean, Hofstadterian, Kurzweilean. Marx was right: Religion is the opium of the masses. Look at the context in which that quote was made. It is a statement about evolution. The spread of capitalism represents the search for that something, manifesting materially. It’s unfortunate this occurred but in response to the argument of inevitability I’d ask: if an person never touches a drop of alcohol (knowing if they do they’d be 100% likely to be addicted to it), can they be called an alcoholic? I’d say no. Alcoholism isn’t a problem if you’ve never ingested alcohol.

    In any event, humans aren’t the end all and be all of nature and evolution, and the laws of nature transcend the laws of H. sapiens. Evolution and nature (of the biotic variety on this planet) has been around for billions of years before H. sapiens originated in Africa and will continue for billions of years after (or at least until the Earth system itself is physically destroyed).

  • P.S. – I have no stake here. I am just delivering a message (with my limited writing skills.)
    – Respect Life ON Earth
    – Make the End of the Anthropocene Era Cruelty-Free.

  • Actually:
    Anthropogenic = producing humans
    and
    Anthropogenous = produced by humans

  • Robin Datta, thank you for providing a prefect example of avoidance.
    You focus on a term that I used and nitpick about it, rather than on the message that I am (trying) to convey, so that you don’t have to feel any uncomfortable feelings (am I correct?.
    – – – By the way,
    you could have just used a dictionary.
    Anthropocene |ˈanTHrəpəˌsēn|
    adjective
    relating to or denoting the current geological age, viewed as the period during which human activity has been been the dominant influence on climate and the environment.

  • anthropogenic |ˌanTHrəpōˈjenik|
    adjective
    (chiefly of environmental pollution and pollutants) originating in human activity: anthropogenic emissions of sulfur dioxide.

    I did not find ‘Anthropogenous’ in my dictionary

  • Ram Samudrala, I am not surprised that you don’t agree with what I say in my post about how effective Guy’s message is within the framework in which he presents it. After all, you are one of the habitual serial posters here. And you are so comfortable with your posting on here that you don’t even bother to explain why you disagree and support your reasons with a logical argument. Is this blog just a parlor game (a diversion, a distraction, a way to avoid) for so many of the repeat and serial posters? —Just wondering. It is of course your prerogative to be here for whatever reason you chose.

  • treenoise, just because I post here doesn’t mean I agree with everything written here. It is not my comfort in posting here that led me to be terse in responding to you. Since we’re all limited to two posts a day (and I hate to be the count police, but you’ve exceeded your post count), and since there are so many topics to cover, and so little time as always, I have to pick and choose what and how I respond to. In that sense, yeah, I suppose it is kind of a parlour game where we try to get multiple points addressed within the two posts we get as I attempted to do. My response to you was part (one paragraph) of a longer post (five paragraphs). But there’s no intentional advoidance as you can hopefully see with this response, which I also hope you find satisfactory. If not, it will have to be taken up on the forum.

    I thought it was adequate to refute the logic of two of your main (and I think ultimately only) points: 1. Taking your logic to its ultimate conclusion must lead to an unsatisfactory conclusion even to you, unless you believe what Pat believes (Voluntary Extinction). Your concept of what is relevant isn’t necessarily what is relevant to everyone and what everyone gets out of this. In other words, there is no point to be made aside from the ones Guy makes because it’s all moot because of NTHE, etc. There is no goal, no purpose, once you have accepted NTHE is going to happen: even saving other species and leaving the planet in as good a condition as possible means getting rid of the species that caused the problem in the first place. This is why I referred you to Pat. 2. Just because a choice is present doesn’t mean a choice is advocated for. You made the argument that Guy offers a way out because someone ELSE is casting his message in this or that light. In other words, you’re making a statement about what Guy is doing based on the actions of someone else which I found illogical. I apologise for not coming across clearly enough on that but I felt that since Guy himself responded and refuted you on this and stated happiness is not joy and grieving isn’t inaction, there was no need for further elaboration.

    My questions in general whenever I read comments as such as yours are: why not start your own site and do it your own way? It’s not that hard. I don’t mean this in any polemic sense but I ask sincerely. The world is a great place because we all have diverse views and it takes all kinds and creatures. Why do you want someone who is expressing themselves sincerely to change to fit whatever agenda you think should be promoted? My view, related to the points I make in (1) above, is that the act of sincere and honest expression is what matters. It is all we can do. I don’t agree with many things said by Guy, to varying degrees, but if I wanted to see something different, I’d do it instead of trying to influence him with arguments of specious logic.

  • The fellow on the videos with Guy. I’m pretty sure his name is Peter, has a goatee, shirttail out… he’s a cool dude in my opinion, the perfect offset to the science. He has a lot of energy and presents himself well and shows empathy when dealing with others. I’m all in favor of the Titanic allusion he uses, it’s something most of us can identify with and after all, this ‘ship’ is going down.

    @treenoise. I was driving a remote two lane highway through the desert out west a couple of years back and saw a sight I’ll never forget. I had pulled off the road for some reason and after I got out of the car I couldn’t help but notice the quiet, the intense beauty, the smells on the breeze, the sagebrush, cactus and other plants. What kind of animals lived there, I wanted to know. I was enraptured by a mystical feeling that seems only available when one is enfolded by nature. Then I noticed the highway. It had a rough stone gravel surface, the kind that makes tires howl at high speeds. That’s when I crashed, the mystery, the beauty, raced out of me like a snake-bit jackrabbit. There before me were the animals! Flattened by passing traffic, they were but scraps of leather and hair, some fairly new, others hardly more than a stain. But what was most disturbing was that there were SOOOOOO MANY OF THEM, as far as the eye could see.

    Seems I’m forever painting. You know those little spiders you see a lot of when you’re cutting in along the ceiling? Well, I used to paint right over those poor little bastards. Not anymore. I take the time to tweedle them out of their tiny nests and chase them away so they can come back after the paint dries. Now, I bet that pisses them off big time, but it makes me feel better. Is that the kind of stuff you mean by helping animals?

  • guy, i think u were surreally on top of your game in this chico talk pts. 2/3. your collaborators were beyond competent, the technical aspects/production of audio/video were perhaps the best of any of your videos. even the audience participation was the best. well done!

    reader, it’s good to hear from a youngun’ for a change. radical honesty is hard to express. u did so admirably well and seem well ahead of the awareness curve for your (or any) generation. it’s said misery loves company: maybe that’s why we’re all ‘here’. welcome aboard.

    ‘bite on the hippy flipping remark? Candy flipping then?’

    ram, i had to google ‘hippy flipping’ to discover it’s meaning. i’ve long been a frustrated wannabe consciousness explorer. frustrated by our repressive laws and my own repressive social experience/limits/abilities. i see u’re affiliated with u. buffalo. i live only 100 miles away. maybe we could correspond, maybe get together some day?

    ‘the laws of nature transcend the laws of H. sapiens’ -that’s a.k.a. NATURE BATS LAST.

    merry solstice all.

  • “You focus on a term that I used”

    My comment is not directed in response to anyone: I don’t care at all about who used which term where and when.

    Common usage is more often than not at variance from the original meaning of words as the language evolves. The suffixes “-genous” and “-genic” have a long history before climate change. The inconsistency in assigning a meaning to “iatrogenic” that should be carried by “iatrogenous” had been pointed out a long time ago by others elsewhere. Words like calorigenic, pathogenic, carcinogenic, etc. carry the correct meaning of the suffix.

    Likewise “-genous” has acquired both meanings:
    Merriam-Webster
    -genous
    adjective combining form
    1:producing :yielding
    2:having (such) an origin

    A Wiktionary listing of the suffix includes anthropogenous.

  • @Ram,

    “…the great sage and philosopher, Reagan (the better half, Nancy)…”

    Surely, you jest!

  • Dear Brutus, even if there is no hope whatsoever of affecting the outcome, what can one do? You can only do what you can do. As Theodin finally decided in Tolkien’s book (not the movie), when he had ripped himself away from Wormtongue, You Ride Out. Ride out against impossible odds. Or as Albert Camus concludes in Sisyphus, the problem of existence militates that the body must be endured and dragged through to the bitter end. As than inimitable old Irish drunkard Sam Beckett said in The Unnameable:

    “it will be the silence, where I am, I don’t know, I’ll never know, in the silence you don’t know, you must go on, I can’t go on, I’ll go on.”

  • Please note: Quoting those excerpts got me banned from the NTE support group on FB.

  • can you feel it?
    the giddy almost Glasnost-Perestroika Seasonal Affective Disorder?
    oil drops the U.S. is almost nice
    angels sing like a
    Cyclonic War On Peace
    what could go wrong?
    we thought war was good

  • I like Joe Romm’s Climate Progress where you have to click for each comment
    I suggested they make readers click for each word within the comments
    I really love the seamless unobtrusive silent censoring of my comments
    The sciencey hi-tech green energy aura won’t let go
    The headlines are voice of god awesome
    thank you God

  • Crude Oil (WTI) USD/bbl. 60.65 -3.17 -4.97% Jan 15 11:44:53
    Crude Oil (Brent) USD/bbl. 63.87 -2.97 -4.44% Jan 15 11:44:53

    Yesterday I discussed Black Swans with one of my numerous contacts, and how no one expected Saudi Arabia to declare war on America, and the effect this particular Black Swan will have locally and globally.

    I pointed out to Anthony that the local economy is in dire straits, numerous countries are on the brink economically, and the global environment is collapsing -disrupted jest streams methane leaks, and a likely forcing factor for methane for time frames that matter of around 300. Also the fact that our so-called community leaders have zero credibility, and the only district councillor with much idea has resigned.

    TEOTWAWKI.

    As mentioned previously, around here the good times are over for dairy farmers (probably permanently), which will rapidly translate into less money flowing in farm-support sector, the retail sector, restaurants, travel agents etc. and will cause further closures.

    I am not privy to what is going on in the energy sector but logic tells me no one will be funding exploration for difficult oil when Brent is in the low 60s and forecast to go lower.

    A friend of mine has been talking about the re-emerges of stock rustling -theft of large numbers of animals and carting away, presumably for slaughter, and the fact that the police are doing nothing about it. Organised crime.

    I passed the construction zone for the new Te Henui bridge yesterday (one of three government-sponsored boondoggles) and noted the temporary bridge (used during the construction phase to get gear across the river) looks like a piece of cardboard that has been in a washing machine, and the scaffolding towers are at an angle of about 70 degrees. Meanwhile, groundwater is flowing outside the concrete pipes put in place to carry it. The access bank has partially collapsed. An extra unbudgeted $50,000 to rectify the ness before construction resumes?

    We’ve had a bit of rain. Not a lot but enough to raise the river a metre or so and get it flowing at about 20kph.

    Nature Bats Last.

    Never mind. Under disaster capitalism, the more disasters there are the better it is for GDP, employment, money-printing and debt.

  • A very good item here. (Thanks Robert A for finding)

    http://www.aip.org/history/climate/othergas.htm

  • “Study finds early warning signals of abrupt climate change”

    http://esciencenews.com/articles/2014/12/08/study.finds.early.warning.signals.abrupt.climate.change

    “A new study by researchers at the University of Exeter has found early warning signals of a reorganisation of the Atlantic ocean’s circulation which could have a profound impact on the global climate system. The research, published today in the journal Nature Communications, used a simulation from a highly complex model to analyse the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC), an important component of the Earth’s climate system.”

    Paper location:

    http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/141208/ncomms6752/full/ncomms6752.html

  • to Wester @ December 10th, 2014 at 6:26 am

    I get what you’re saying, but I wasn’t referencing the question “what to do (in response)?” but rather commenting on the tone of the undertaking and the visible responses to those who are learning of NTE for the first time. To them, the immediate question might instead be “what retains meaning when everything has just lost meaning?” When we are no longer able to project ourselves (or our progeny or our culture) into the future beyond an unstable interim before TEOTWAWKI, our entire epistemology drops away.

    Those of us who have been dealing with the NTE meme for months/years now have a distinct advantage over those confronting it for the first time. As Daniel Drumright wrote here at NBL last summer, on “the other side of acceptance,” the world takes on a fundamentally different aspect. We’ve had time to adjust to that disorientation.

    Regarding the question of what we’re meant to be doing, I rather like your Theoden reference: do the right thing even if/when hope is lost. (I note that Tolkien delivered saving resolution, though at great sacrifice, just as annihilation looked assured.) However, we don’t really have consensus how (or if) to act. How that answer manifests will distinguish between moral/ethical actors and nihilists.

  • Shep, as sure as anything in this world. 🙂 More than woo, I’m allergic to any self-centred view that places individual over collective, but I’m also against top down attempts to engineer the direction of a complex system (which I don’t think is possible anyway).

    the village terry, I hope you saw my post on the forum in response to yours since I had exceeded the two post limit for this thread yesterday.

  • One of the risks for Guy is an attendee on realising the direness of the message freaks out! A young man in the above presentation looked very upset like the beginnings of a nervous breakdown. Guy did look at him with some concern and the master of ceremony quickly took over with a hearty continuation! The young fella settled down then.

  • http://www.desdemonadespair.net/2014/12/full-scale-of-plastic-pollution-in.html

    Full scale of plastic pollution in the world’s oceans revealed for first time – More than five trillion pieces weighing 269,000 tons are floating in our oceans

    More than five trillion pieces of plastic, collectively weighing nearly 269,000 tonnes, are floating in the world’s oceans, causing damage throughout the food chain, new research has found.

    Data collected by scientists from the US, France, Chile, Australia and New Zealand suggests a minimum of 5.25tn plastic particles in the oceans, most of them “micro plastics” measuring less than 5mm.
    [read the rest]

    http://robinwestenra.blogspot.co.nz/2014/12/methane-hydrates-off-coast-of-washington.html

    Thursday, 11 December 2014

    Methane hydrates off the coast of Washington

    Mysterious Seafloor Methane Begins to Melt Off Washington Coast

    [also see the article by Japan Meteorological Agency claiming el Nino has arrived]

    Jay: I had that experience. I made an off-the cuff (we were off on a tangent) remark in a college class I was teaching (about 5 years ago) noting that most of the indicators showed we are on the road to doom economically, environmentally and socially and one girl completely lost it. I had to remind her that it takes a while for it all to manifest and that it “could” be in her lifetime – so she should live to follow her heart. She regained her composure somewhat, but it was unexpected and scary to witness and go through (for both of us), so I don’t “go there” anymore (stick to the subject) and leave it to the professionals like Guy now.

  • 2 posts per thread? should be 2 per day.

    goavs – when things run amoc

    David Suzuki pissed me off today with his wind turbine rant, so in a pique of mental masturbation, I stroked my list today. sorry people, the spirit has touched me.

    ► Wind turbines only deliver 25% of their rated power 90% of the time.
    ► ALL energy sources have unintended ecological consequences.
    ► To manufacture the magnets for 5 big turbines produces 1 ton of radioactive thorium waste and 75 tons of acidic waste water used to leach out the needed neodymium, which produces a gas vapour of hydrofluoric acid, sulfur dioxide, and sulfuric acid.
    ► Wind turbines only last 25 years requiring heavy-duty maintenance and overhauls.
    ► Wind turbines kill half a million bats per years in the U.S. alone.
    ► The Smithsonian figures they kill a quarter million birds per year there.
    ► Slowing blade rotation to reduce wildlife harm reduces energy output even more.
    ► The expensive batteries and power inverters need constant replacement.
    ► 40% green energy requires 200% more copper.
    ► We can’t mine 200% more copper.
    Continue reading if you want to know why.

    MINERALS, EXTINCTIONS, MONEY THERMODYNAMICS & GREEN ENERGY
    Life is simple: James Hansen wants you to get 100% of your carbon taxes back, Bill McKibben and Naomi Klein do not. Don’t believe me? Then ask them, if you are able, that’s why the Rockefellers fund 350.org. When governments and corporations get control of carbon taxes, we’re finished. The Rockefellers divested from oil, but they still want your carbon taX dollars. This is why they fund 350.org.

    In the video, “Years Of Living Dangerously” we learned the Indonesian lumber mafia killed all the elephants in a nature preservation park just to get rid of the need for a park so they can cut the trees. 80% of those park trees are gone. These guys clear cut forests, replace the forests with palm-oil trees, and sell the palm-oil to put into gasoline in Europe. They make money selling lumber, collecting tax carbon credits and selling the palm-oil to burn in cars, mostly in Germany. Win-win-win. Unless you’re an elephant.

    In the video, “Virunga” on Netflix, we learned the Congolese mineral mafia is killing off the last Mountain Gorillas so that the need for a national park will cease to exist. Cell phones don’t run on love, you can ask the 2 million children murdered there since 1998, or the 1 million Iraqi children our oil embargo killed in the 1990s. People may think me misanthropic, but that’s not true, some of my best friends are people.

    Money used to be metal coins, now money is storage of electric, metallic-mineral pulses. If you are confused by money, metal and climate, then try to think in terms of the mass of all the metals, minerals and elements — energy demand doubles by 2060 — emissions need to drop 80% by 2030 — peak minerals and peak energy hits at the same time we want to produce billions of tons of toxic lead, liquid metal or molten salt batteries — we can’t have hi-tech green energy without heavy rare earth elements and we can’t have heavy rare earth elements without digging up thorium as a radioactive waste — the only solution is to get emissions free power from plentiful thorium so we can create a better hi-tech green energy world — this is important because we are approaching post-peak minerals where we would be unable to afford large enough scales in mining, which even alone can entail collapse. The peak is a short time of several plus years. Economics is just a fancy word for hoping things don’t change much more than 3% per year.
    http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/v2/n6/full/nclimate1451.html?WT.ec_id=NCLIMATE-201206
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/renewable-energys-hidden-costs/

    WEIGHTY STUFF
    ► Humans and livestock were 0.01% of land vertebrate biomass 10,000 yrs. ago.
    ► Humans and our livestock are now 97% of land vertebrate biomass.
    ► Humans and our livestock eat over 40% of land chlorophyll biomas
    ► When we eat over half of nature’s green stuff, bad things happen to bio-diversity.
    ► 1,000,000 humans, net, are added to earth every 4½ days.
    ► 50% of vertebrate species died off in the last 50 years.
    ► 50% of remaining vertebrate species will die off in the next 40 years.
    ► +50% = Unstoppable Irreversible Catastrophic Cascading Extinctions Collapse.
    ► 75% Species Loss = Mass Extinction.
    ► Ocean acidification doubles by 2050, triples by 2100.
    ► World Bank says we have 5-10 years before we all fight for food and water.

    ► 90% of Big Ocean Fish gone since 1950.
    ► 90% of Lions gone since 1993.
    ► 90% of Monarch Butterflies gone since 1995.
    ► 75% of Freshwater & Riverbank Species gone since 1970. **
    ► 50% of Great Barrier Reef gone since 1985.
    ► 50% of Human Sperm Counts gone since 1950.
    ► 50% of Fresh Water Fish gone since 1987.
    ► 40% of Giraffes gone since 2000.
    ► 30% of Marine Birds gone since 1995.
    ► 28% of Land Animals gone since 1970.
    ► 28% of All Marine Animals gone since 1970.
    ► 93 Elephants killed every single day.
    ► 2-3 Rhinos killed every single day.
    ► Bees die from malnutrition lacking bio-diverse pollen sources.

    ** ► 75,000 dams block U.S. rivers.

    ► In just 13 years, we will “lock in” an inevitable near term 6°C earth temp rise because we continually exceed the worse-case emissions scenario set out back in 2007 says climate scientist, Dr. Michael Jennings.

    ► Energy demands to increase 100% by 2060 says the IEA.
    ► Emissions have to decrease 80% by 2030 says climate scientist, Kevin Anderson.
    ► To power England with 100% solar & wind, requires 25% of its land says physicist, David MacKay in 2012. Even with recent improvements, it’s still a lot of land.
    ► 40% Green Energy requires 200% more copper says John Timmer of Ars Technica. Even performance improvements won’t be enough in time.
    ► Peak copper hits 2030 – 2040 says Ugo Bardi.
    ► Post peak copper production cannot accelerate at any price says Dave Lowell.
    ► This is true of any post peak mineral production.
    ► There is no real substitute for copper says Mat McDermott of Motherboard.
    ► We mined 50% of all the copper in human history in just the last 30 years.
    ► 100% green energy requires 500% more copper.
    ► Peak minerals includes more than just copper.
    ► By 2050, expect to be past peaks for tin, silver, cadmium and more.
    ► We move some 3 billion tons of earth per year to get 15 millions tons of copper.
    ► We can’t afford to mine 500% more copper at ever lower concentrations.
    ► We cannot recycle it into existence.
    ► We cannot conserve it into existence.
    ► Substituting aluminum for copper takes 5X the energy and is less safe.
    ► Google’s own Stanford Phd, green energy experts, Ross Koningstein and David Fork, tell IEEE Spectrum why green energy “simply won’t work” and is a “false dream”.
    ► Ozzie Zehner explains his book, Green Illusions, at Google Talks in 2012.

    ► Green Energy is our solution to Climate Change.
    ► But, Climate Change is only 1 of 6 Direct Drivers for Mass Extinction.
    ► The 6 Direct Drivers of Mass Extinction are:
    … 1) Invasive Species
    … 2) Over-Population
    … 3) Over-Exploitation
    … 4) Habitat Loss
    ….5) Climate Change
    ….6) Pollution
    ► Therefore,… GREEN ENERGY WILL NOT STOP MASS EXTINCTION

    http://www.cultureunplugged.com/documentary/watch-online/play/7350/Call-of-Life–Facing-the-Mass-Extinction

    ► Tim Garrett explains why money can’t decouple from carbon emissions growth, and how economic growth makes the world hot, as well as how efficiency and conservation only results in more growth.

    ► The reason I know all this stuff, is because I cut grass for a living.
    ► I hate the guy in the following video because he is so freaking good.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t__55YiQ9Qshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t__55YiQ9Qs

  • or, like Bob Dylan says,
    The answer my friend is blowing in my wind.

  • Guy: I just got around (finals week) to listening to your interview with Dahr – really enjoyable, thanks!

    here’s a few news stories from JJFH indicating that the methane and hydrogen sulfide releases are having an increasing effect on us

    2014-12-09 – Boat bursts into flame, fire spreads to home, in Olympic Hills area in coastal Seattle (Washington)

    Quote: “Firefighters are responding to fire that started on a boat and extended to a house in Seattle’s Olympic Hills neighborhood.”

    “Note: A boat burst into flame the day prior while docked at West Bay Marina in coastal Olympia (Washington), about 50 miles away, mentioned in the 2014-12-08 update…”

    2014-12-09 – Six buses go up in flames at 2:30 AM while parked in lot at Center for the Disabled in Albany (New York)

    2014-12-09 – Three buses and a truck burst into flame while parked in a carpark in coastal Singapore

    2014-12-09 – Pickup truck bursts into flame while parked at Walmart in coastal Bridge City (Texas)

    “Note: Here’s yet more parked vehicles going up in flames. All vehicles are now randomly-igniting firebombs that can go off at any time, so park a vehicle near anything that you care about at your own risk. Plenty of people have died because of this problem and plenty more homes and businesses have been destroyed by vehicles spontaneously igniting too…”

    2014-12-09 – Sewage plant hit by fire, hydrogen sulfide blows around, in coastal Jacksonville (Florida)

    Quote: “A Tuesday morning fire at a JEA sewage treatment plant at 10477 Bradley Road forced the evacuation of a nearby shopping center after hydrogen sulfide gas was detected in the area, according to the Jacksonville Fire and Rescue Department. Some workers and contractors needed medical treatment.”

    2014-12-09 – Electrical room bursts into flame at university, campus goes dark, in Amherst (New York)

    2014-12-09 – College student, woman, 19, drops dead in dorm room at the University of Nevada in Reno (Nevada)

    “Note: An 18-year-old college student, woman, just dropped dead at a college in Clemson (South Carolina) too, mentioned in the 2014-12-07 update. Lotsa college students dropping dead this year, worse than last year, and next year will be worse yet, and so on until we run out of people. Freshmen probably shouldn’t count too heavily on graduating these days…”

    2014-12-09 – Woman, 23, drops dead before 7:30 AM outside her home in Sylvania Township (Ohio)

    Quote: “There are no signs of trauma or apparent foul play…”

    2014-12-09 – Man in his 30s or 40s drops dead under a palm tree in coastal Cape Coral (Florida)

    2014-12-09 – Man in his 40s found dead near the pool area in Walnut Creek Park in Austin (Texas)

    2014-12-09 – Woman, 43, drops dead at home in Mitchell (South Dakota)

    2014-12-09 – Man in his 40s found dead at beach near coastal Indianola (Washington)

    2014-12-09 – Man, 37, found dead in back yard at home in Benton Harbor (Michigan)

    2014-12-09 – Middle-aged man found dead in his garage at home in Bullitt County (Kentucky)

    2014-12-09 – In separate incidents, 57-year-old man found dead in river and 19-year-old man found dead in creek in the Fiji Islands

    2014-12-09 – In separate incidents, two men found dead in the water in coastal Mombasa (Kenya)

    2014-12-09 – Toddler boy found dead in swampy area near his home in coastal Perth (Australia)

    2014-12-09 – Infant suddenly dies at home in the wee hours on the island of Trinidad, toddler found dead in pool separately

    2014-12-09 – Man, 36, found dead in the Leeds and Liverpool Canal near West Derby (Britain)

    These news items are but a few of the long list (provided every day) of evidence that we are being affected by the CH4 and H2S releases around the world.

    [read more at http://jumpingjackflashhypothesis.blogspot.com/%5D

  • The latest essay in this space comes from the virgin terry. It’s here. Read all the way to the bottom of the page for the latest bits in print and video.

  • You know we are in trouble when the MSM starts catching on.

    It’s The End of the World As We Know It
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/randy-malamud/its-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it_b_6276620.html