Edge of Extinction: Three Questions

Friedrich Kling will generously match all donations to NBL dollar-for-dollar to a maximum of $5,000 (today’s tally is $350, with my thanks). Gifts of any amount are welcome. This opportunity is being made available for the next four weeks, until 28 February 2015. Thanks very much for your kind support, Frank.

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Please restrict comments to a total of two each day. The quickest way to get banned from commenting in this space is to post under multiple monikers in a feeble attempt to comment frequently.
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I’ve been asked to speak in Boston, Massachusett. I intend to visit there about 18-30 March 2015. The vast majority of my travel expenses will be paid by my host. If you would like to create an event, including interviews or presentations, please let me know via email: guy.r.mcpherson@gmail.com.
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This week’s show was canceled due to snow in New York City. Next week we intend to feature an interview with Regents’ Professor Randy Malamud from Georgia State University.
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19 February-4 March 2015, In and around New York City, New York (details below, more forthcoming)

24 February 2015, 7:00 – 9:30 p.m., Spoonbill Books, 218 Bedford Avenue, Brooklyn, New York, telephone 718.387.7322. Reading and signing books, with plenty of time for Q&A, wine, and cheese. Details here.

27 February 2015, 6:00 – 9:00 p.m., Project Reach, 39 Eldridge Street, Suite 4, New York, New York

1 March 2015, 6:00 p.m. Woodbine Collective, 18-84 Woodbine Street, Flushing, New York. Reading and signing books, with plenty of time for Q&A.

4-16 March, northern California, organized by Peter Melton: 530-680-5550,
Peter.Melton3@gmail.com, additional events to be announced

11-12 March 2015, Grass Valley/Nevada City, venue to be announced
11 March: 6:30 – 8:30 p.m. presentation and public discussion

11 March: 8:30 – 10:00 p.m. workshop: Pursuing Love and Excellence as Liberation from Modern Culture

Life of Excellence workshop Intro 8:30-10
12 March: 9:00 a.m. – 3:00 p.m. workshop: Pursuing Love and Excellence as Liberation from Modern Culture

13-14 March 2015, Chico, venue to be announced

13 March 13: 6:30 – 8:30 p.m. presentation and public discussion

13 March: 8:30 – 10:00 p.m. workshop: Pursuing Love and Excellence as Liberation from Modern Culture

14 March: 9:00 a.m. – 3:00 p.m. workshop: Pursuing Love and Excellence as Liberation from Modern Culture

18-30 March 2015, Boston, Massachusetts. Details to follow.

6-30 April 2015, western Europe (additional details forthcoming, and follow the tour on Facebook)

European tour spring 2015
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McPherson’s latest book is co-authored by Carolyn Baker. Extinction Dialogs: How to Live with Death in Mind is available.

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If you have registered, or you intend to register, please send an email message to guy.r.mcpherson@gmail.com. Include the online moniker you’d like to use in this space. I’ll approve your registration as quickly as possible. Thanks for your patience.

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Tech note, courtesy of mo flow: Random issues have been appearing with posting comments. Sometimes a “Submit Comment” click will return a 404 Page Not Found, or another error, for no apparent reason. To ensure you don’t lose a longer comment, you can right-click select all, and right-click copy, in the comment box before clicking “Submit.” If that hasn’t been done, the comment text will likely still be in the comment box when clicking the back button, or the forward button — depending on the error — on your browser.

Comments 52

  • Above average presentation, good answers.

    The number one thing anyone can do to fight climate change is to go outside and plant some charcoal into the soil. This is 6X more efficient than any other single thing we can do. The downside is that it isn’t something bright and shiny and actually requires hard work, unless you want to video yourself working.

    Every single computer model using the latest data all say that it’s worse than expected. The only thing worse than computer modelling is actual field observation. Do you know that by the age of 8 years old, kids spend 8 hours per day staring at a monitor? For those of you who don’t know, actual field observation means getting off your ass and going outside. This is why climate scientists who spent years in the Arctic are scared shitless, and climate scientists who spend years sitting at their computers are not. Who to believe?

    Everything is connected, I’m going to show you how.
    Climate change is only responsible for 7% of species extinctions.
    Food and pasture lands are responsible for 80% of species extinctions.
    China’s pigs eat half the soy crop grown in South America.
    Indonesia rainforests are burning so they can plant just palm-oil trees.
    Both soy and palm oil gets sent to Europe to burn as bio-fuels in their cars.

    The average reader has absolutely no idea how bad things are. Corporations, governments and even scientists are not telling you the truth. We are burning crops and trees for biofuels which doesn’t help the climate but does hasten mass extinctions. We are racing to cover the whole planet in solar panels and wind turbines without a thought to ecological consequences.

    Did you know that it will take earth thousands of years to react to a 2°C temperature rise, but when it’s done the earth will be 17°C warmer and seas 75 feet higher. You are only told what 2°C will do up to the end of this century. Just remember, you can’t compare ice and sea levels from hundreds of thousands of years ago to these future projections because of variables in earth’s past orbital, geo-chemical and ecological forcings. It’s like comparing apples and oranges.

    http://www.slideshare.net/fullscreen/IGBPSecretariat/great-acceleration-2015/1
    http://www.reddit.com/r/RenewableEnergy/comments/2tz0s7/how_to_fix_everything/
    http://www.reddit.com/r/RenewableEnergy/comments/2qg5s9/mass_extinction_vs_green_energy/

  • U have recently spent a considerable amount of time explaining to someone the nature of the ‘slave camp’ (death camp) we are living in, where things are headed, and the refusal of all officialdom to countenance anything other than business-as-usual and rapid destruction of what is left of the natural world in order to maintain dysfunctional arrangements for a few more years )or months): she said she felt sick and sad.

    U responded that her feeling sick and sad was good because it demonstrated she was still human. In the surreal world we are living in, most people do not seem to be at all bothered that they are destroying their children’s futures or their own at an accelerating pace.

    I recently had yet another confrontation with yet another fuckwit who drives a large diesel-powered vehicle every day and who denies there is anything wrong, even as NZ suffers exceptional drought and economic collapse. (We are experiencing the first significant rain in weeks right now, so I won’t need to water plants today.)

    I will shortly be confronting yet another newly-appointed NPDC council official (whom I expect to know nothing at all about anything of significance despite being a senior policy manager) with reality. I will do this, not with any hope that the insane policies of NPDC will change in the short term but because it is the right thing to do.

    A friend of mine who follows financial machinations believes present economic arrangements will not last beyond the first quarter; I still believe we have until 2016 before it all collapses.

    Good luck waking 13the zombies on your coming tours, Guy.

  • Thanks Guy and Peter for your talk. Good points, I am going out now to plant milkweed.

  • DO YOU KNOW HOW TO THINK THE UNTHINKABLE?
    .
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    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    with an ithberg, like the Titanic.

  • “ithberg! dead ahead!!”

    “what?”

    “ithberg!!”

    “not copying that, lookout.”

    (aside) “can you understand what he is saying?? why did we hire that guy…”

    “ithberg!! ithberg!! ITHBERG!!

    “whatever. full speed ahead.”

  • Apologies. Bleary-eyed, early in the morning, I made a few of my usual typing errors. And with many things to do -torrents of rain at the moment- I didn’t double check.

    * I have recently spent a considerable amount of time explaining to someone the nature of the ‘slave camp’ (death camp) we are living in, where things are headed, and the refusal of all officialdom to countenance anything other than business-as-usual and rapid destruction of what is left of the natural world in order to maintain dysfunctional arrangements for a few more years (or months): she said she felt sick and sad.

    I responded that her feeling sick and sad was good because it demonstrated she was still human. In the surreal world we are living in, most people do not seem to be at all bothered that they are destroying their children’s futures or their own at an accelerating pace.

    I recently had yet another confrontation with yet another fuckwit who drives a large diesel-powered vehicle every day and who denies there is anything wrong, even as NZ suffers exceptional drought and economic collapse. (We are experiencing the first significant rain in weeks right now, so I won’t need to water plants today.)

    I will shortly be confronting yet another newly-appointed NPDC council official (whom I expect to know nothing at all about anything of significance, despite being a senior policy manager) with reality. I will do this, not with any hope that the insane policies of NPDC will change in the short term but because it is the right thing to do.

    A friend of mine who follows financial machinations believes present economic arrangements will not last beyond the first quarter; I still believe we have until 2016 before it all collapses.

    Good luck waking the zombies on your coming tours, Guy.

  • Way too little too late, BUT, it is refreshing to see an article written that sees a tad of justice a’coming!

    Check this words out:

    “During that dark night, several men and women were gathered in a cramped room, asking me one simple and essential question: “Could the brutality of the Empire be prevented, and if not prevented, could it be stopped?”

    I replied that “Yes!” And “Yes!” again.

    Because no matter how dark the night appears to be, no matter how hopeless the struggles seems to be, the world had changed in the last several years; and it had changed profoundly.

    ***

    When I stood in the middle of the street on 26th January 2015, just with my camera, right between stone-throwing youth and heavily armed Indian security forces, I was the only person willing to report the event. Later a Kashmiri human rights activist explained to me: “Foreigners don’t dare to do this, local reporters would be, as always, beaten up by the Indian security forces, and if Indians were to dare and come, they would encounter the wrath of those indignant stone-throwing youth.”

    And so I was alone there.

    But was I really?

    Behind me – not visibly behind – but psychologically not too far away, stood a comrade who has been working for a huge international press agency. He couldn’t be here with me, but before I went, he offered his support, contacts, and expertise. Without his help and backing, my work would be next to impossible, or at least much more dangerous than it already was.

    The struggle for justice, for true freedom, and above all, for the survival of humanity, is becoming increasingly broad, joined by countries located on all the continents and by individuals from all walks of life.”

    Andre Vltchek writing for CounterPunch:

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/01/30/half-of-humanity-now-forms-the-resistance/

  • I have come to calling this time in the history of humans and our planet “The Great Unraveling. ” We face the perfect storm of population overshoot, the collapse of the global economy, the unraveling of the biosphere and a cabal of psychopaths controlling the MSM narrative and the largest and most brutal military on the planet which after declaring war on Islam and progressive forces world wide is now stalking Russia,Iran, Cuba and Venezuela to name a few. After having passed many tipping points we are now in a time of abrupt climate change. The world we lived in yesterday is over and each day this student of abrupt climate change learns more and more dire information confirming that the 6th great extinction is under way.
    Here is a great presentation by Paul Beckwith discussing the ongoing discharge of methane which as many of us know was the driving force of the Permian Extinction.
    [audio src="http://www.ecoshock.net/downloads/ES_150128_LoFi.mp3" /]
    My mission in life now is to help get the message out so that people can choose wisely how they wish to spend their last days.

  • shep –

    from the article you linked:

    Russia got up from its knees and confronted the Empire. China did the same, in many ways returning to Socialist, even Communist designs. Both big nations are increasingly ‘internationalist’ when it comes to their foreign policy. Both are also deeply concerned with the lives of their people.

    so, Putin’s egoistic grandstanding is “confronting Empire” ? and China’s running both its people and its environment totally into the ground, into the grave, so its wealthy elites can get even more wealthy is “deeply concerned with the lives of their people”??

    of course Putin’s true motives are to protect the Ukrainian people from the predations of Monsanto, and the Chinese government is truly acting out of the interests of the greater good of “the people” and not just pure greed like all the other elites of the world.

    how is it possible that the need for some kind of left/right good gvt/bad gvt narrative is still holding such an amazingly complete grip on a writer/journalist that they could actually believe Russia and China aren’t wholeheartedly and completely part of the Machine, just as much as the USA and Europe? all the elites are playing the same game.

    these nations are not “internationalist” – they see the writing on the wall, and are positioning themselves as best they can, desperately thinking they can eke out some slightly less than totally disastrous outcome when the crash hits. just the same as the elites all over the world are doing right now.

    left/right, Empire/non-Empire, East/West seems just so meaningless at this point. local is the only thing that stands the slightest real chance – for however long post-crash. ironically, it seems like the local grassroots efforts – the ones that see the reality of what’s coming (my redneck state is a great example, and this stuff is very real here, and taken seriously) – are extremely diverse and tolerant of a range of personality and politics. left/right is never even discussed. it is all about skillsets, growing things, making things, and knowing who your neighbors are.

  • Although nations all maneuver and do wicked things, I wouldn’t say they are the same in all respects. They are always changing relative to each other, and the most powerful may well be doing the most harm. So the nations opposing the most powerful can in some ways be allies for the international oppressed? For instance, is it irrelevant to the order of global oppression that Edward Snowden finds a haven in Russia? Or that ex-Black Panthers on terrorist lists find a haven in Cuba? Or that Russian-backed Ukrainians stand (even temporarily) in the way of Monsanto? Temporary relationships that fluctuate in a time of upheaval are nonetheless tools of struggle, IMO.

    Robt. Callaghan

    “Everything is connected, I’m going to show you how.
    Climate change is only responsible for 7% of species extinctions.
    Food and pasture lands are responsible for 80% of species extinctions.
    China’s pigs eat half the soy crop grown in South America.
    Indonesia rainforests are burning so they can plant just palm-oil trees.
    Both soy and palm oil gets sent to Europe to burn as bio-fuels in their cars.

    The average reader has absolutely no idea how bad things are. Corporations, governments and even scientists are not telling you the truth. We are burning crops and trees for biofuels which doesn’t help the climate but does hasten mass extinctions. We are racing to cover the whole planet in solar panels and wind turbines without a thought to ecological consequences.”

    You mention sequestering charcoal. I saw a permaculture video describing the burning process as producing charcoal with all the wood oils drained from it. Their process seemed technical beyond what ordinary people can do. Is the oil extraction not that necessary?

  • Mo Flow, (Post #2)

    I totally agree with what u say. I’m just excited about the elites in this country getting fucked for ONCE even if it is by other elites. All freedom fighters that get the upper hand become defectors. Witness, Nelson Mandela et. al. I do also believe (WAAAAY TOO LATE) there is a sense of justice these days floating to the top. Not very much maybe but at least for me it is something besides the same old shit that has prevailed since I have been alive.

    BTW, thanks for putting my post straight! (That was good information on the how and why, and what to do the next time.)

    U know John Duffy, the tenor singer for the Seldom Scene performing “It’s all over now, Baby Blue”, was trained as an Opera singer but turned into one of the best tenors Bluegrass has ever known. Too bad he’s gone.

  • This evening we had our first Skype-based Tacoma ESG meeting. Completely unrelated to anything recently happening here at NBL, and not knowing anything about it, one of our group members presently experiencing some life-threatening domestic abuse suggested that we include in our Tacoma group Agenda a description of bullying, which we will do: BULLYING involves actions or comments that may hurt a person psychologically and/or physically. Examples of bullying include: (1) derogatory remarks, insults, epithets, or berating, especially in a public venue, (2) intimidation or threats, (3) undermining or deliberately impeding another person’s goals, objectives, and efforts. Needless to say, I immediately thought of NBL where bullying rampantly occurs. I wonder how much abuse I will receive for writing this comment.

  • If men would just leave nature alone, growth powered by sunshine would remove C from the air and return it to the soils. It has been working for billions of years. Nothing needs to be done except get out of the way, stop harvesting the C and sending it to the cities. It never comes back to the land. I regret that I have been doing this for the past 65 years. Not a single molecule ever came back to the farm.

    Whatever grows on an area of land is supposed to stay there, even if some of it (a very small portion) is eaten by bugs or animals. Their waste and their bodies also stay there. This builds soil. So, the best way to get C out of the air is to do nothing…no harvesting of crops. The people need to be eliminated. No one wants to hear that, of course. People want to “DO SOMETHING”. People already have done something and plenty of it.

    If a very few people lived on the land (lots of land, not 1/4 acre or whatever), that is what has worked in the past, 99.9% of the past.

    But this is all academic now, just words.

  • artleads,
    i just cottoned onto the idea, not being a scientist or writer, i can just fire off text, shooting from the lip, without thinking. reconciling the fact that crop and pasture lands are responsible for 80% of species extinction with large-scale carbon-charring operations will likely have unintended consequences just like everything else.

    with regard to operational simplicity, it has often been my experience that people like show how intelligent they are by over-describing things in impenetrable jargon. ie. instruction manuals, my wife during sex etc. etc.

    essentially, you just grab some dried plant stuff, get it burning and cover it with dirt. 24 hours later you dig it up and mix it into your soil. how hard can it be?

  • Post #1. 2-1-2015 7:29 AM

    “There’s NO GLORY IN DYING.”

    That’s the last sentence in the trailer of a Documentary called “The Immortalists”.

    These are people who are trying to find *their* holy grail of no death and think they are getting close.

    This is hard to believe.

    When I was small, in the early 1950’s, in grade school , I can remember the buzz of the day that predicted that in the not too distant future a pill would be invented to take care of all diseases and we would live forever.

    IT”S BACK!!!

  • In 1971, a caravan of 60 brightly painted school buses and assorted other vehicles carrying more than 300 hippie idealists landed on an abandoned farm in central Tennessee. They had a mission: to be a part of something bigger than themselves, to follow a peaceful and spiritual path, and to make a difference in the world.”

    (The Farm).

    It is still there.

    And the gummit is still watching (Hoover FBI and The Farm).

    *The Farm is a model intentional community set on 4000 acres of rolling Tennessee hills and dales.

    *It has adopted the three legs of sustainability: social, ecological, and economic.

    *It is net carbon minus — annually sequestering 5 times its own carbon footprint.

    *The Farm Midwives are recognized worldwide for their contributions to the safety of home birth.

    *The Farm School (K-12) is a 40-year pioneer in alternative education.

    *Plenty International and Global Village Institute are award-winning relief and development organizations with amazingly effective projects on six continents.

    Come and visit us, spend a weekend, enjoy some of our music festivals, workshops, and holiday events. Kick back, breathe clean air, enjoy our pure, limestone well water, have a lovely meal with friends and family …

    (The Hippies Were Right).

  • good words dairymandave
    a lot of city dwellers have no idea

  • Mommy, mommy the abusers are bullying me.

    Don’t worry honey. We’ll make a sign to pass a law so you can have your way.

  • Gaia Rising Now TV episode 1 feat. Dr. Guy McPherson

    Guy appears at the 19 min mark and 40 min mark.
    Great stories Guy! And pictures!

  • artleads –

    “Although nations all maneuver and do wicked things, I wouldn’t say they are the same in all respects.”

    yes, to be really clear, I was only wanting to include USA+EU+China+Russia together in the sense that they are all part of the same sociopath-driven Machine. you could sometimes include some of the other larger countries in that group as well.

    many of the smaller countries (Cuba is a good example) out there actually have found ways to create certain levels of true benevolence in the world – at least on a level that overrides their downsides. can’t say the same for the ones above.

    shep –

    since being a rabid lefty growing up, I have now become greatly allergic to pretty much all conception of the “nation-state.” with the exception of the smaller countries I am thinking of, these things have become utter horrors. I can’t wait for them to disappear. hopefully quietly, and with efforts going towards safely shutting down the nukes, rather than throwing the death-nukes around in a tantrum.

    “I’m just excited about the elites in this country getting fucked for ONCE even if it is by other elites.”

    yes! but this is where I think: “be careful what you wish for.” what could the trigger be for something to go really off the rails? China getting more aggressive in the South China Sea? something in the Ukraine? we don’t need it. every effort needs to go into a sensible winding down, if that is possible, at some point, and not just a wild fantasy.

  • shep –

    “This is hard to believe.”

    hard to believe, on so many levels. not only have humans turned the Machine loose to grind this planet into dust, to serve endless human ego, now some want to live forever as these egos, as well.

    really, it is hard to imagine how much deeper into insanity it can go…

  • @dairymandave
    Truer words were never spoken.. Given that we are already here, might as well try a little permaculture, though. The original permaculturalists understood about keeping fertility on the land.

    @mo flow, artleads, re. the behavior of nations. This is just more ignorance, I think, of the way politics is aligned to Energy and not to Ideology. Cuba isn’t a “good” country because it behaves itself.. it behaves itself because it is LITTLE and without surplus energy to throw around.

  • Lidia,

    I chose my words carefully. I said nothing that would contradict your statement. I didn’t say that any country was “good.”

  • Random thoughts: Flying into Los Angeles (sorry, Arlo, no keys), twice, sadly, in the past month, once by day, lastly by night. Noticing a change in myself, and a firmer conclusion about others.

    Any still hoping for “Change” coming from human efforts, look down at LA and abandon all hope.

    Especially from the south, and at night, the time over the vast expanses of suburban/urban blight seems endless. Tell them to change this “lifestyle” — make them change — not a chance! (Clint Eastwood’s Josey Wales’ advice to the bounty hunter comes to mind: “Dyin’ ain’t much of a livin'”)

    I am comfortable only with aisle seats now, taking an occasional glance out the windows to either side. Others seem transfixed, or obligated, to stare down on the stewpot of planetary destruction below, going on much too far and long. As if they were impressed by the lights below, with just a hint of being confounded by it all, tiny human animals in a tin can in the sky, overwhelmed by the sight of the entire Petri dish, a-boilin’ away.

    Some glad to be returning “home”, some even more glad to be passing through.

    Me, my stomach is starting to squirm at the sight, never “beautiful”, but now no longer even of interest. (Except where I get to see the geography of bays and rivers, forests, mountains, and try to recognize what I’ve studied from maps.)

    A recent TV newscast showing the city lights of an NFL game site, as seen from one of the many hillsides within the city. This was presented as “beautiful” — the lights of many buildings glowing at night– all Man’s cancerous creations summed into one malignancy. People who live in lit-up buildings, going a short distance away to a “park”, to stare back at those lights. And for how long have these cityscape views been impressed into our feeble brains as “valuable real estate,” or worthy of us seeing?

    No, the lights are not the worst element, except where coal-powered, only the visible sign of IndCiv around them. The vehicles moving along the linear tracks of those lights are the dominant “species” that an extra-terrestrial visitor would have to recognize as the prevailing “lifeform” on this planet.

    Finale. The temptation of 400-horsepower petroleum was irresistible, still is. Not to mention the reproductive, nourishment, and military advantages. They will not be given up. Humans do not understand lead times, nor lag times, and even if they did, they would push on, just because they can. Inertia. It’s Thelma and Louise, baby; always was.

    Henry heard the train pass by Walden Pond. The Machine in the Garden. Those thoughts of long ago, coming true for us today in ways then unimaginable.

    Those of us who gather a shred of Nature around us, taking refuge in a few acres of fields or woods out our backdoor, can easily forget the immense uniformity that over 50% of the others now live in. The airplane overview rams that back into my cognizance quite forcefully.

    My escape to a more natural environment over 15 years ago allows me to go enjoy short stints in urban places where many people whom I like dwell. But their children have to play on apartment balconies, or kick a soccer ball between parked cars, and dodge taxis and motorcycles. A promised visit to a fishing lake outside the city, due to car troubles, turns into an afternoon at the in-city zoo. These are families who were farmers one or two generations ago, driven off their lands by the violently rich. Fading memory of a heritage their children will never know.

    Die-off, is all it comes to. The guilty and the innocent. And selecting who you will go down with, or escape with for awhile, and whereto. Die-off is the only ultimate outcome I can foresee.

    Guy has helped me strike much of the crap off my lifetime “to do” list. Many delusions about who I am, and what I can do, go out the window when you can envision near-term Die-off of billions. When you view the vast majority of humanity herded into the modern concentration camps, you have to do triage daily to adjust your own thinking to what is real.

    When I lived in LA briefly, I used to look out at the water from the park overlooking the pier, look up the PCH, and wonder what would be my escape route in a disaster. Never figured an answer, just imagined sort of floating out to sea until it was over. Maybe paddle on up to Malibu.

    While I’m burning up a day’s post, let me recommend you not let the sometimes overwhelming awareness of oncoming doom erase your normal self-care routines. My dentist greeted me after a two-year absence with “Where have you been!?! Let’s get to work on those.” Painful. And the attempt to catch up on my neglected preventive care made me realize I have, with others here, been looking into a future, and forgetting many of my needs of the present. I write this partly as a reminder to myself, not to let slip again.

    Yes, it’s a state of mild depression, obvious when you view the resulting neglects. But I’ve dealt with many situational downers — mild dysthymia — throughout my life, and much of it has come out good. We can all remember our friends who were casualties, and we’ve dodged many a bullet that they did not.

    I WANT to know what’s going on — sometimes I overindulge out of disbelief — and most of it has been horrific! (Anyone here remember Vietnam? USA “beacon of Democracy” commits Nazi-level slaughter of millions. That’ll make a dent in you at 19. Seen much improvement since then in the behaviors around you, and around the world? Oh, that’s right — you can wear your hair long now, while another million or so die.)

    Guy is right to strike the note of wonder, again and again, at the beauty and kindnesses we can still find in our lives. You must find the unique things for you that will shine that light through the darkness.

  • @Henry
    Sorry we missed you recently…next time ?
    Funny, I wonder if any of these folks have purchased in NZ recently…

  • Some awesome posts! I really like it here, mostly. Thanks, mo flow, for keeping on reminding us that ego has been nothing more than a form of collective insanity all along.

    Dredd, your posting on The Farm reminded me of one of my favorite videos!

  • To try and clarify (at the risk of over-posting):

    “Lidia,

    I chose my words carefully. I said nothing that would contradict your statement. I didn’t say that any country was ‘good.’”

    I have a great many things that interest me, and time hardly suffices to deal with them. If there is some reality whereby energy gradients (whatever that means) determine social behavior of all sorts, I spend no time whatsoever considering it, as it seems at best an incomplete conclusion, omitting the things that DO interest me.

    If energy gradients DO in fact determine everything, it would be like saying that fate determines everything. Are we saying that choice does not determine everything as well? Destiny, but no choice? Or is it destiny AND choice together? By extension, is it energy gradients and no choice? Or could it be energy gradients AND choice together?

    It’s hardly worth the discussion. Who knows anything for sure about this? If the energy gradient hypothesis is to enable a form of quietism, good luck to those who go that route. I most assuredly won’t join them.

  • Post #2 2-1-2015 Sun

    Henry,

    Thanks for ur 1,026 word (essay) post. U get one more according to the rules, if u wish.

    Mo flow,

    This is just me but the planet, in my mind is toast anyway so we all go down in terror one way or the other. I still wish for ANYTHING that will punish any offender. (I do not see a spiritual world (no judgement) at all. Impossible!) This is where I think this Kling fellow is a fake. (Probably a plant to watch this website for the elites.) How could he believe in NTHE and buy huge tracks of land for pennies in one of the US client States in S.A.

    RE: Cuba

    I tried to begin a discussion on this topic on BATTER UP but u know what, they are such an enigma, it’s like the country doesn’t exist. (Even our most prolific posters had nothing to say.) NO ONE has an answer for their success as a Socialist State. It isn’t anarchy but they still triumph every day. They beat the hell out of the white supremacists in Angola a saved a state, they unselfishly send doctors all over the world to promote socialism (NOT THE STALIN STYLE) to HELP, and they have absolutely beaten the monster just off their shores for a long, long time.. Talk about a success story. How? How? How? Remarkable! The reason for the sudden desire of the US of Asshole politicians to restore relations is because Russia is BACK, but this time, along with China, AND, they think they can go there and install the MAFIA again (See Billy Joel’s lyrics.) and act stupid, get drunk, rape, practice pedophilia and do what the elite do so well.

    Compared to the BIG, obviously fraudulent countries, Cuba is a Damn Good Country.

    Viva’ Fidel!

    Let someone else do better.

  • Henry,

    I share many of your feelings. I’ve looked at civilization’s lights at night from NASA satellites and the glowing metabolism and organic spread is both fascinating and frightening. Civilization is biological in all but some of the novel, toxic materials we’ve incorporated into our structures and metabolism. Since it is of a biological nature, I can’t see any other outcome than what occurs in a terminal human cancer. But people will wake up in the morning, go to work in their technological cells and perform their functions, anticipating the next reward they will choose from the retailers line-up. For the most part, if you haven’t skipped ahead and read the final chapter, it’s quite a fantastic binge for the species that escaped the ecosystem’s controls. Most people can’t read the final chapter, they can’t read the tea leaves at all, they can only imagine the future will be much like the immediate past. I’m sure a human neoplasm, if sentient, would feel the same way, “This is great, we’re number one, we can’t be stopped, we’re…………………………..dead.” So where does that leave us, doing specialized metabolic “jobs” in the cancer until kills itself? Where does that leave your children? To die within the malignant growth? I would be half-tempted to relocate to New Zealand, but when the rich get there, they’ll take a hefty dose of the cancer with them and likely destroy the qualities of the place that led them there in the first place. I’m sure that the New Zealand government will welcome new development and “growth”.

  • Bob S.,

    You wrote “Mommy, mommy the abusers are bullying me. Don’t worry honey. We’ll make a sign to pass a law so you can have your way.”

    It seems to me, Bob, that you would have much more appropriately written something like this:

    “Mommy, mommy the abusers are bullying me.”
    “Tough shit, honey. Get used to it. Get a Black Belt in karate and get a license to carry a pistol because you are entirely on your own here. You live in Capitalist Amerika where we consider bullying and domestic abuse, especially against women, black people, children, and American Indians if not desirable, at least acceptable. If you ever have any doubt about that, just ask Bob S. and many others at NBL. They will let you know how a society REALLY ought to work.”

    So, Bob, have you physically and/or emotionally beaten up your wife, children, and/or pets today? If not, I wonder: why not? Or perhaps you did, you found yourself in jail as a result, you feel angry as hell that people respond to your narcissistic bullying in that way, so you come to NBL where you know others accept and encourage that kind of pathological behavior, and you can safely abuse and bully others however you may wish?

  • dairymandave,
    Lidia,who has a good understanding of the carbon cycle,has endorsed your comment ,so maybe I am missing something.It seems to me that you are misunderstanding the carbon cycle.The main underlying problem(apart from deforestation) is industrial civilisation releasing carbon which has been sequestered and rendered innocuous because it was not part of the ‘current’, or ‘short term’ carbon cycle,rather than the number of people. Of course,by ‘Main underlying problem’,I am referring to the climate disruption problem .Overpopulation is certainly a huge problem.

  • David,
    “Overpopulation is certainly a huge problem.” Yes, to some extent. For sure if the total human population numbered only a few million people then it wouldn’t be a problem, unless of course that population consisted exclusively of the Russian and U.S. military, in which case the danger of a nuclear war would not have been lessened one iota. The number of people is not as much of a problem as what that number must do to secure some type of shelter. If we did not have to compete with each other for basic needs, we could accommodate all of us.

  • @Henry, great comment. Although when one is in the countryside and one sees the handful of amber beacons of the lit windows of the houses on the hillside, there’s still a deep visceral feeling of security and nostalgia. I think we are bred to value and be attracted to this visible expression of energy, in a way… There, in that house, they have surplus and warmth!

    @artleads: I have a great many things that interest me, and time hardly suffices to deal with them.

    In this you are not alone.. and?

    If there is some reality whereby energy gradients (whatever that means) determine social behavior of all sorts, I spend no time whatsoever considering it, as it seems at best an incomplete conclusion, omitting the things that DO interest me.

    That is your loss, in a way, because it isn’t “some reality” in which energy distribution matters… but THE reality. When complex societies have formed, they act in predictable ways. When they collapse, and energy surpluses are no longer there to be harnessed to any great degree, then societies act in other predictable ways. I don’t think there is any contention about this.

    An “energy gradient” occurs when there is higher energy on one side, and lower energy on the other. A “gradient” is like a slope or step. Higher energy always wants to degrade and transform itself into lower energy.. A ball will always roll downhill, where it achieves a state of lower potential energy. When you or I burn fossil fuels or break down uranium in order to power these messages, we’re turning things which once had high potential energy into things which have low potential energy (and waste heat). In the world in which we live this is an ongoing process: you burn the gas or the wood to release its potential energy, and it heats your coffee and then the coffee cools and the waste heats goes off to heat the rest of the universe. NTE and climate change notwithstanding.. at some point this transformation exercise would reach its limits: all the potential energy will have been exploited.

    If energy gradients DO in fact determine everything, it would be like saying that fate determines everything.

    Yes, it would be like that.

    I know that most likely against your own personal druthers and sense of personal agency, and that of most other people. However, it’s been shown that our brains takes action before our conscious minds are even aware of it.

    Are we saying that choice does not determine everything as well? Destiny, but no choice?

    No, “we” are saying that things which appear to be conscious choices are not..

    It’s hardly worth the discussion.

    For you… so you need not enter into it. That, at least, is a theoretical “choice”. But here you are burning up the internet with postings I find incoherent, just as I am making posts you don’t understand. Which is just what the energy laws say we should be doing.

    If the energy gradient hypothesis is to enable a form of quietism, good luck to those who go that route. I most assuredly won’t join them.

    Let’s inform folks on “quietism”:

    … The “Quietist” heresy was seen to consist of wrongly elevating ‘contemplation’ over ‘meditation’, intellectual stillness over vocal prayer, and interior passivity over pious action in an account of mystical prayer, spiritual growth and union with God (one in which, the accusation ran, there existed the possibility of achieving a sinless state and union with the Christian Godhead).
    Since the late seventeenth century, “Quietism” has functioned (especially within Roman Catholic theology, though also to an extent within Protestant theology), as the shorthand for accounts which are perceived to fall foul of the same theological errors, and thus to be heretical. As such, the term has come to be applied to beliefs far outside its original context. The term quietism was not used until the 17th century, so some writers have dubbed the expression of such errors before this era as ‘pre-quietism’.

    Do you say “good luck” because quietists will burn in hell? (Just a rhetorical question…)

    What is the point of more “activity” -pious or not- when it is precisely our “activity” that is causing the problem?

  • @davidhigham, yes, both are problems, hand in glove, each exacerbating the other.

    Modern society uses diesel fuel to do the carbon exporting, both from oil well and tar sands as well as from the plains of Kansas or Iowa, or the once-prolific oceans… to tables in NYC, Chicago, Rome, Hong Kong… and then we use diesel fuel to cart away the waste to some third venue, using various forms of energy to treat the ‘effluent’.

    I was in the store today and saw “grass-fed” AUSTRALIAN beef. I’m in Vermont. Most of our household food comes from CSAs and local organic meat producers but every once-in-a-while I still make a regular grocery run. Shelves looked kinda empty, but it was “Super Bowl Sunday”! I think they are severely trying to cut down on inventory, especially of perishables.

    Didn’t I mention the heinous bio-digester that’s attempting to monopolize the local organic waste stream and burn it for electricity? Millions spent on this. Millions. Electricity hurts our Mother.

    @Jean: “a few million people.. exclusively of the Russian and U.S. military” wouldn’t happen, because there wouldn’t be the complex energy-hungry society under stress that makes those entities “necessary”. I think the military will have a huge heyday and then collapse along with the rest.

    Thinking on an organism scale, it’s like the police and military are hyped-up immune systems, trying to maintain coherency in a sick corpus. They’re like a dose of anti-biotics, but prolonged use of anti-biotics compromises the organism, as well, and at some point you just can’t devote resources to cultivating anti-biotics, anyway.

  • “We’re not responsible.” “We have no choice”
    “We were born into this set of living arrangements.”

    Have heard these tropes repeated ad nauseum to excuse for the inconvenient occupation and exploitation of other people’s land and resources AKA Being American, or Canadian, or Australian, or New Zealander if not “Modern” human anywhere on the planet.

    You wake up swimming in blood, gagging on blood, like a vampire: gorged to bursting with other people’s life force, fingers are gloved in razor blades, everything you touch festers, rots or dies. You good ol’ mum birthed you into this abattoir, as she her mum before her. So you are not responsible?

    You could take off the razor blades, you could drag yourself out of the river of blood, you could STOP participating. Or you could rationalize stories to yourself about how you are a prisoner, about how your hands are tied, about how mum put you here, about how you aren’t responsible, about humans don’t have free will and so have to behave like sponge larvae.

    Like I said. Ad Nauseum.

    There are 2 schools for ethical behavior in Western philosophy.
    (1) Would you make a universal law of your actions? Kant’s Categorical Imperative.
    (2) The greatest good for the greatest number. Mill and Bentham.

    Do any of those apply once you become conscious of who you are and what you are doing? Or do the endless nauseous rationalizations still obtain?

  • Here at NBL, we do not just accept pathological, abusive, bullying behavior among commenters, but many of us often proactively encourage it, or we accept and encourage it with our passivity. We say and do nothing. We presumably cannot, or should not, manage our communication with each other in respectful, civil ways—THEN we bitch ceaselessly about the pathological, abusive, bullying we see happening in the world to black people or American Indians, to the salmon, and to the biosphere more generally? We actually have the audacity to bitch about our inability to treat the biosphere in respectful, civil ways? This seems to me a perfect and beautiful example of human insanity: we ignore what we do right here, right now to each other while distracting ourselves by blaming the “bad guys”, the scapegoats “over there”. This seems to me obviously out-of-touch-with-reality insanity. We cannot, or should not, manage ourselves here in this small, relatively manageable situation, but we presumably can and should manage ourselves in that vastly larger, far more complex situation?

    I find much lacking in these values and this reasoning. In distinct contrast with so much wishful thinking and fantasizing that I see going on here regarding human agency, I don’t think any human has ever had any control over what they found happening, certainly no one has any control now, and no one ever will—most importantly and fundamentally, BY FAR, regarding humans managing their population. But it feels so self-righteously GOOD, so COMFORTING, angrily to blame those bad guys! Meanwhile, the Romantics among you really need to do a little reading and educate yourselves concerning how clans and tribes of humans have handled their rule breakers throughout all of human history.

    Lydia,

    You go girl!

  • Lidia,
    The system at present is certainly set up to maximise the rate of fossil fuel consumption in numerous absurd ways.But don’t forget that even if we had a small population using fossil fuels sparingly,we would still end up in a similar predicament to the one we are now in,it would just take longer to do so.The fossil fuels cannot be used if the goal is to have a long term human population existing.All irrelevant now anyway.The fuels have been burnt ,the juggernaut rolls on until the inevitable collapse occurs.

  • Bud writes: This seems to me a perfect and beautiful example of human insanity: we ignore what we do right here, right now to each other while distracting ourselves by blaming the “bad guys”, the scapegoats “over there”.

    >>>

    I love it when you called that sumbitch Scott Johnson a paid agent of the govmint or some corporation, and demanded to see his tax returns. No doubt, all the problems here are his fault, Bud, just as you suspected all along!

    I love it that one minute, we’re chatting merrily about putting heads on spikes, and the next we’re sagely lauding the deep thoughts of Marshall Rosenberg about non-violent communication.

    I love it that we’re railing against the excesses of a a capitalist society while we put half a mil into upgrades to our “mud hut”. And then, having built our “platinum grade” eco-Shangri-La on the edge of a desert, we realize that we can’t actually LIVE there for the next 15 or 30 years, so we look to sell it to the next guy who’s having a self-hatred induced mid-life crisis.

    Why love it? Because life is a comedy to those who actually THINK, but a tragedy to those who merely FEEL. There’s already plenty of tragedy to go round, so a little comic relief is a good thing.

    Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds – and around here minds are anything but little! They’re angry…they’re afraid…and beneath the anger and fear they’re broken-hearted (when they’re not basking in misanthropic cut off my nose to spite my face triumphalism) – but they’re not little.

    So don’t stop now! Under the insidious indirect direction of Scott Johnson and other agencies of TPTB that will not be named, y’all are on a roll.

  • @david higham, of course. But you say “set up” as if there were an External Hand. My feeling is that we (as part of Nature) ARE vehicles of the “External” Hand, and we cannot escape ourselves in this situation.

    We have always been on this trajectory—I agree; our brief period of access to fossil fuels has only compressed the eventual time-frame.

    The conventional wisdom might posit that a small low-extractive population has a longer potential life-span than a larger more-extractive population [the problem is we are not that small population, and never will be until after the obvious forthcoming cataclysmic crash of much of the infrastructure]… but I don’t think that is really the case. He who consumes most and fucks the hardest will leave the most offspring, with greater survival chances accruing to that strategy, as far as I understand things.

    Unlike most people, I don’t have “the goal of a significant long-term human presence” on the Earth. We have already outstayed our welcome and will be dealt with accordingly. Child-free by choice, I won’t be passing on any genes that might signal “consume less”, “consume more”, or anything in-between.

    [having problems posting, so if this is a duplicate, please delete.]

  • Lidia,

    I like you, and generally expect good things of you. But I find your posts today symptomatic of self satisfaction and heartlessness. It seems pointless to continue this conversation.

  • Malcolm X Was Right About America

    Posted on Feb 1, 2015

    By Chris Hedges

    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/malcolm_x_was_right_about_america_20150201

    NEW YORK—Malcolm X, unlike Martin Luther King Jr., did not believe America had a conscience. For him there was no great tension between the lofty ideals of the nation—which he said were a sham—and the failure to deliver justice to blacks. He, perhaps better than King, understood the inner workings of empire. He had no hope that those who managed empire would ever get in touch with their better selves to build a country free of exploitation and injustice. He argued that from the arrival of the first slave ship to the appearance of our vast archipelago of prisons and our squalid, urban internal colonies where the poor are trapped and abused, the American empire was unrelentingly hostile to those Frantz Fanon called “the wretched of the earth.” This, Malcolm knew, would not change until the empire was destroyed.

  • Obviously little hope that any wildly overpriviledged imperial wiener dog is going to stop raping and pillaging. Because…they can’t. Kind of like addicts. You know, the gutter crawling kind. They are gloriously unburdened either by conscience or notions of free will.

    Let me be kind of clear. I find this mindset personally offensive, repulsive, violent and coercive. Concomitantly I reserve the right to upbraid and bitch slap, until the bitter, bitter end, all those neo-colonial wiener dogs who just can’t help themselves.

    Good Day.

  • Henry – thanks for taking time to give us *the real* view from 30000 ft – OFC, I agree wholeheartedly.

    Bud – you asked –

    **Bob, have you physically and/or emotionally beaten up your wife, children, and/or pets today? If not, I wonder: why not?**

    No of course not – not today or any other day. If you have evidence to the contrary, I suggest you contact the authorities, as assault, child abuse, and animal abuse are criminal offences. See something – say something.

    Of course you wonder why not – I’m an abusive bully in your word salad footnoted world.

    **It seems to me, Bob, that you would have much more appropriately written something like this:**

    Yes – sadly, it prolly does seem that way to you.

  • <b<Kirk Hamilton Says:
    February 1st, 2015 at 4:42 pm

    Some awesome posts! I really like it here, mostly. Thanks, mo flow, for keeping on reminding us that ego has been nothing more than a form of collective insanity all along.

    Dredd, your posting on The Farm reminded me of one of my favorite videos!

    ==================================
    Yes, it is quite a story.

    Quite a video you posted.

  • my mother died when i was four years old. i spent years in broad spectrum abuse until i was 12. i liked fighting until i was 12, when i swore i would never hit anyone again. never did, though sometimes i think i should have hit my son when he was young. yesterday was national wife-beating day. i’ve been married 20 years, never hit her. i love to joke about abuse. i do have secret fantasies about punching my boss’s face. fuckin hate that guy. so, watching you smarty-pants folks lose your shit over stuff like whether savages are noble or chaos vs. fate it cracks me the fuck up. i always pause in wonder and think what will these guys do when the shit really hits the fan?

    one my favorite subjects is the history of art and science, where people are constantly stealing ideas from each other and claiming them as their own.

    my very favorite topic is disabuse of notions. i like to disabuse people of life after death. i like to disabuse people of evolution, or science-as-religion. i never actually succeed, but it seems ideas are just another excuse to fight. so please, don’t ever stop thinking, writing and fighting, it is an endless source of amusement to me. it reminds me, i’m every bit as vain and egotistical as the sources of my amusement.

    see it live here in the comments section
    http://www.ecoshock.info/2015/01/abrupt-climate-change-yes.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+EcoshockNews+%28Ecoshock+News%29

  • I’ve posted a new batch of information, headed by a video clip. Catch it here.

  • artleads,

    One person’s “heartlessness” is another’s “clear-eyed realism”. I think Lidia has nailed it right on the head with this latest series of posts.

  • Ed,

    Correction: I did not “demand” to see Scott Johnson’s tax returns. I suggested his doing that as a possibility, as a way for him to demonstrate that he does not receive government or corporate payment for his arguments, which so strongly support our present corporate government’s trajectory. What did you hope to accomplish by very badly misrepresenting what I wrote? Meanwhile, our self-annihilation trap goes far, far beyond Scott Johnson’s naïve, Baconian/ Cartesian/ Newtonian version of physics, which remains conveniently and dramatically uninformed of modern physics, non-equilibrium thermodynamics, and complexity theory.

  • Paul C.

    If you believe you have no choice, it is inconsistent to not account for why you make an infinite number of them, from getting up in the morning to having no children. If you believe that living is futile and unworthy, why cling to life? What drives you to do that? If you believe that doing things is worse than the opposite, why don’t you oppose the doing of ecocide and genocide?

  • Well, to begin with I don’t think that life is either unworthy or futile, both of which are just emotional judgments. Most of the time I think life is fascinating and amazing.

    I don’t oppose the doing of ecocide or genocide because such opposition would be a complete and utter waste of time, energy and sanity for me. That is not the same as saying I condone or encourage either one, though – I object to them quite emphatically. But objection and opposition are quite different things in my view.

  • I’m also coming to think that it’s probable that individuals have some freedom of action, but that freedom is severely constrained in the collective due to the operation of evolved biosocial pressures.

  • “my very favorite topic is disabuse of notions.”

    Love it, Robert Callaghan…