we are all to blame
Circle Of The Unknown
No one knows we are on path to destroy all life on earth with the way we grow food and that GMO-livestock intensive farming is an existential security threat to all humanity.
► 2040, runaway unstoppable mass extinction begins due to food production.
► 2070, human agriculture will be over due to soil degradation.
► 2100, we run out of oxygen due to ocean acidification of plankton.
Once again, very well said Guy.
The leaders of the most lethal of species posing as caretakers of species (FYI The IPCC Record on Global Warming Temperature Projections – 2).
Guy, in your video you magnanimously & righteously advocate, … “becoming those underdogs – taking those actions that might sustain & increase the joy of other people & other organisms at this fascinating time in human history.”
I don’t know how you can demonstrate this by flying to Europe, with an assistant no less, spewing another 20 plus tons of planet killing CO2?
How in the name of any kind of narcissistic double-talk can drowning an innocent Bangladeshi child bring joy?
Hey Robert – i always enjoy your contributions, but i think we’ll all be toast by the 2030’s due to multiple feedbacks biting hard, water scarcity, out of control diseases of humans, plants and animals (including insects and marine life), catastrophic methane/hydrogen sulfide releases (and probably nuclear war by then, but even if not, there’s more than enough nuclear pollution to add to the predicament). Just adding this for balance (since they’re all projections). Thanks for your thoughts!
Carolyn Baker is a despicable huckster.
Ditto for Gary Null & Mike Adams.
Guy, you do not belong with these malicious fraudulent marketing bastards.
At 23:30 of Episode 2 Pt 2, Jennifer Hynes says: “…it’s absolutely happening, and there’s no way out….”
Summer Is Coming
When folks learn, concerning the heat,
That their info has been incomplete,
And with nothing to eat,
They’ll all become meat,
There’ll be breakdown and chaos tout de suite.
Big fan Tom, good work, admire the way you stay out of the fray,
It’s only baby steps for early belief suspenders.
Did Barbie ever say repetition is boring? Nope, because it works.
Or doesn’t, or whatever. You can ask my wife.
► 2025 — Four billion humans go thirsty.
► 2040 — Unstoppable mass extinction begins.
► 2070 — Human agriculture will be over.
► 2100 — We cannot breathe oxygen.
Mycelium: The wood wide web
… Professor Suzanne Simard explains how this process of exchange works. As if this doesn’t blow your mind yet, she also coins the idea of ‘mother trees’ supporting young trees. This concept nuances the core of Darwin’s idea in which every living organism acts as an individual competing for survival of the fittest. Simard states that they actually help each other out to survive.
very conservative estamte
Wow, have been listening and watching so MANY of your Youtube archives. Mike Ruppert whom I credit with my early awareness led me to your work. Until we change the way money works ,… We Change Nothing !
I will now start combing through your site and do need to get the Nature Bats Last book. Money !!! ???
I have heard the 40 year lag concept mentioned in ALL the talks, and only got a small explaination of WHY and HOW the 40 years lag comes about in the conversation with Paul Beckwith.
I understand much of the heat goes into the oceans, but why 40 years? Why not 6 or 12 or 23? WHY 40 year lag? I also know about the 17 year locust, but that is another thing HA!
Thanks for the Wake Up Call. Highy regard your communication style, keep it up, your the Master of Dark Humor !
Wow! Powerful new videos above! Congratulations and thanks to those creative soul/s who put pictures and videos to one of Guy’s most passionate speakings.
I went around all weekend with “It’s payback time, m-f’er. Mother Nature — she’s grown to hate ya” playing in my head, so congrats to the house band playing our song. Expresses my mood perfectly. (Yes, just the right amount of anger, amidst the sadness.)
Stray thoughts on the power of Music. What it would have taken. And “No Blame”.
The most stunning cultural event of my young lifetime was the Beatles. Suddenly we all began to see a different world than we had seen a few months before. The oldsters were stunned too, and paranoid at what had possessed their ’50s-raised children.
But it would have taken an Enviro-Beatles. Starting in 1964. Getting everyone out of the cars and coalmines and — and — and that still wouldn’t have done it.
Music has that subversive, infectious potential, but it would have needed orders of magnitude more powerful than that, to get people out of the IndCiv “Thelma and Louise” mode they were in.
(Hell — the other top group, just before, the Beach Boys, were ALL ABOUT cars. And cruising. Go visit L.A. today. Could be 1963, still.)
So, No Blame. Born into captivity is very correct.
Chris Hedges captures the passion and the sadness, too, in his Vancouver speech:
Mutiny is all that could have saved the Pequod from Ahab and from Moby Dick, and that may be all that can “save” what’s left of our “souls”.
I got out of my own “cage” and into the wild yesterday. Listening to my neighbors the birds, like I’ve never heard them before. Thanks to all who remind me/us to do so, while we still can.
B the D
Your on FIRE again
Truly a RARE talent
Master of your MEDIUM
As per usual- WELL-DONE
I note the author of the quote in the video was smoking a ciggy and had a barbershop haircut, but yes wouldn’t it be good if we were all a bit more rebellious.
I have lived a long time simply ignoring laws and rules I don’t agree with, and so far touch wood it’s working out just fine.
In town this morning to pay my monthly power bill,$35(of which ten bucks is fixed charges), which is about average. A $25 9kg LPG lasts me about 3 months on average, a bit less in summer without the logfire keeping the kettle warm.
The car I used to get here is by far my biggest expense, but I only use it as a horse and cart and haven’t driven for pleasure, a holiday or taken the long way home for years.
When I get home I will be moving the bus to its winter spot and hopefully better internet recpt so I don’t end up smashing the phone in frustration, something which has come close a few times lately.
I do wish more of you would give the alternative lifestyle a go, I know it won’t save us but it sure beats the conventional living arrangements.
Can I add my admiration of Lidia and her “cut to the chase” comments, I don’t agree with all her views but I hope she stays around this blog a long time.
It’s my habit to try and have my chores done by 4pm, at which time I listen to National radio’s The Panel on which various people of note discuss the issues of the day. it is virtually impossible to tune in without hearing one or both of these guests report they have just got back from some far-flung part of the world. Another reason I hold out no hope for any real awakening.
a minor confession from the goose.
yes, we animals have been suffering and dying in the most insane ways from the hands of the warped human cancer-beings for a while now.
we would like to say: you poor humans. we see your suffering, your self-created Hell on Earth, and – after we are done laughing our asses off – we marvel at your bravery on pursuing such a daring path! so dramatic! so scary. so full of righteous confusion.
we know that even bugs have agency here, in their own bugish ways. not to mention the rest of us, all living our glorious, One-given, agency-filled lives!
and some of you are so lost, so down the rabbit hole, that you are actually convincing yourselves you don’t have such a gift.
as if the waters themselves were not wet, and the clouds did not produce the rains…
this is high-level dramatic acting you are playing at! it is something remarkable. we wish you all the best, wherever it leads!
oh – we don’t even have to forgive. one moment of our existence is so ALIVE that we simply forget all the needless pain, instantly. we let it wash off us, like wet water off a goose’s backside.
Guy, I’ve never made a direct comment on your blog with respect to the facts as you present them. Your delivery of messages is uncommon and very effective. Your video clip : ‘Edge of extinction, It’s not your fault’, deserves my compliments. Your narrative rocks. As usual however, there is a flaw in my character by which I cannot seem to agree with my fellow humans on subjects which are very close to my heart. The messages you deliver to so many of us so eloquently are replete with knowledge and dedication. Although I hesitate to include myself in writing the word ‘us’ as I’ve not really involved myself in any meaningful discussion in this blog, there is one important factor with which I differ from the position of not taking blame for what is happening to us, and to the world we live in.
The last part of the title suggests that we are not to blame for the human condition. I’m not sure if I understand your point as much as I should, but if you are suggesting that we are not to blame for the state of the planet, for global warming, or for any other condition that we must now face to avoid extinction, then I would make a strong distinction to that position.
In essence, you are right. We are not responsible for our nature, and the way we have been in order to survive as a species. But in another sense, since we KNOW about death, unlike any other living thing, and if we understand that continuing to do what we have been doing is going to cause our death, then who is responsible for not doing what is necessary to change the way we do things?
If we are not responsible, then who or what is responsible? If we claim to be intelligent, and rational, then we are indeed responsible for not changing the way we do things. It is us who have not changed the human condition. If there are people who are starving somewhere on the planet, (thousands every day) and we do nothing about it, then it is our fault for not doing anything about it. The same goes for homelessness, extreme poverty and so on. All of our ills may have been caused by our nature, but the fact that we have not changed the way we do things cannot be ascribed to others, or to governments, or to our nature. We can change things, but we don’t. We can demand that our leaders do our biddings, but those biddings do not reflect the fact that our ship is about to flounder.
@Apneaman… well done indeed, on the barbie.
@Henry: “Mother Nature — she’s grown to hate ya”. Wow, do I dislike that song… are we, or are we not part of Nature? What I find extraordinary is the number of people who will bemoan our disconnection from “Nature”, at the same time they perpetuate that same concept of separation.
@44 south, thanks. We are in the process of buying some land, and it’s required that one spend many thousands on a septic system that will be “permittable”. Meanwhile, chucking 50 cows on the same land as 2 people would require neither waste infrastructure nor permits. We are trying to get to the low-consumption life you describe. More power to you!
A very-local-to-me permaculture star I hired to help us plan our site is unavailable in coming weeks due to multiple engagements in Pata-fucking-gonia(!). This is the sort of insidious paradox which is explained by “maximum-energy” propositions.
@mo flow, that ridiculous goose question.. Did nobody challenge how the fucking goose got INto a god-damned bottle in the first place?
Liberating livestock solely in your mind is not only pointless but offensive.
“The bugs'” agency will be to eat your ass clean to the bone. Then?
one moment of our existence is so ALIVE that we simply forget all the needless pain,
Mo flow, you are so full of shit..!!!
It’s darned easy to “forget” a holocaust which has yet to fully occur.
You have not even begun to superficially entertain the depth of the pain that awaits.
@Jean Turcot, there may be said to be conditions which ‘influence’ this or that, but “responsibility” connotes a completely different set of moral obligations.
You ask, “If we are not responsible, then who or what is responsible?” This presupposes that there is an entity which bears responsibility. Do you think that is the case?
What if no identifiable modern group or process or “god” or political ideology is actually identifiably “responsible”? Can the aggrieved be satisfied with that or not? It sounds like they can’t.
we don’t have to get out of bottles we never got into in the first place. that stuff is for you humans to figure out.
we’re far too busy living, than getting worked up about holocausts – past, present or future. that kind of drama is for the humans that have time to waste on it. you might as well enjoy it, as it seems to be all-consuming for you. we just do our thing, moment to moment, and choice to choice. fake drama has no part in our lives, however much *you* are convinced by it.
““The bugs’” agency will be to eat your ass clean to the bone. Then?”
then more power to him! what the heck does it possibly matter to me?
why would I need to “superficially entertain” anything, when I am perfectly capable of actually LIVING anything that comes my way? always been the case, every moment, for eons. that’s not going to magically change, no matter how frenzied silly humans get with their psychobabble and teeth gnashing. gawd damn indeed.
gooses fly. humans die. bugs eat. and we all laugh our asses off at the ridiculous drama. bad acting really is bad acting. take some lessons or something.
“Liberating livestock solely in your mind is not only pointless but offensive.”
in case you forgot, Lidia, those without agency cannot cage or free any being.
“they” cannot do anything, but act on whatever impels their meat robot neurons – from chemistry or environment. or whatever.
nothing pointless. nothing offensive. nothing there to offend.
offend some chemistry? not going to worry too much about it. but if you are offended, that is an interesting non-choice.
my coffee needs reheating. this is much more important to me in the scheme of things, than a bunch of offended neuropeptides.
and I just choose not to the eat the poor beasts. much. if I do, I try to non-choice myself away from the factory stuff, and to the happy animal stuff. or maybe I do. or maybe not? who knows? what could be offended by a non-choice either way?
maybe I could just as easily non-choose to eat the butcher.
you, Lidia, cannot even claim to choose anything. there is nothing there I could possibly care about. I would care far more about a rock flying away from under my tires, maybe dinging some hapless squirrel in the head, as he waits on the side of the road, thinking his squirrel thoughts, trying to choose when to dare a crossing.
I would have vastly more sympathy for the rock-bonked squirrel than any being that is so clueless as to surrender its own agency to oblivious non-responsibility.
should I be happy when an Earth Firster tries to save an owl, or a greenie tries to save a suffering beastie? does it make any difference? can I choose happiness, blandness, or annoyance at the drama? gosh, who knows? what a mystery.
nice coffee, though.
apologies for the extra, and please do carry on. it is always joyously entertaining and completely hilarious, for us happy animals – in a deliciously ironic and lunatic vaudevillian kind of way.
@ Apneaman: Haha good one dude! And thanks! ☺
People will find out one day
Of the end which they cannot delay;
Then chaos takes hold,
And with horror untold,
Social breakdown begins right away.
Living anything that comes my way…that’s a powerful aspect of always being in the now with the reality you perceive & experience.
Apocalypse later. DYSTOPIA NOW = Thousands of acres tar slag chemical pollution from RARE EARTH mining in Baoton Industrial City (pop 2.6 million) Mongolia/China.
At Turkey Point Nuclear plant in Miami today for NCR Energy.gov Monkey business is cooking mo Goose. Acidifying Atlantic current with Corexit chemicals in the Gulf-stream effecting reactor cooling. Radioactive Carbon (14c) Radioactive Beryllium (10Be)
Can we genetic splice thermophile bacteria with nano ph to digest & deactivate pluntonium particles????
I know an old physicist who swallowed a spider – to catch a fly. I don’t know why she swallowed a fly.
Sorry Guy, but you claim zero free beings have passed by in all our human history..??
Just for the record, even though the rest of the ‘message’ I found stimulating.
“For those who would embrace a life based on heartbreaking Freedom-I am here.”
Avatar Adi Da
(Self Authentication required)
Abrupt burps of methane this summer
Could be the ultimate bummer
Plenty of filth & plenty of crap
But no water comes out of the tap
And politicians get dumber & dumber
Great moments in BNL….
Solutions for a planet throwing off,(disciplining by numbers 101?) an overpopulated species…..
“my coffee needs reheating”
Such poetry, such existential panache, such relevance to the ‘present needs of the world’….
Its all there…the solution…in a few words I dare paraphrase you:
‘don’t waste the stimulants’
Your coffee surely should be drinking you!
and mo flow, I would rather be the grit under your tires than someone who put a goose in a bottle just to afflict people with an intentionally meaningless conundrum.
Lidia – spoilsport!
the silly humans need their stupid conundrums. don’t you see? if they didn’t have to go around wondering about an imaginary goose they are trying to free from an imaginary bottle, they would actually have to be alive in the world.
that’s just not going to cut it. free the goose!
(and super sorry for the double over)
“one moment of our existence is so ALIVE that we simply forget all the needless pain”
I’m going to embroider this on a mother-fucking pillow.
LIDIA – I’m right here for you. like an atom plucked out of the massive radioactive black hole at the center of the Galaxy. I FEEL YOUR ANGER. I FEEL THE PAIN of billions. It is serious.
Energy.gov Dark ops very DARK matters
Mo is a light energy. A Duality of the very dark. Scientific facts cross an extensive spectrum
“that’s not going to magically change, no matter how frenzied silly humans get with their psychobabble and teeth gnashing.”
But Lidia here in the dark mirror I know the truth of ages of holocaust, weapons with pin-point precision, radioactive extinctions to come. Universal forces cast down into the grip of monkeys who can not resist. Lidia bloody scream for all of creation. Facing ten thousand nukes exploding like suns. I can hear you. I see how this reads:
“that’s not going to magically change, (until it is deformed and mutated beyond words to speak) no matter how frenzied silly humans get with their psychobabble and teeth gnashing. (and then an eternal radioactive dead silence, for there were no teeth. not a one.)
Lidia, Hopefully this will make a bit of sense. If not, then I’m quite sure my nonsense has a lot of company. My question about ‘responsibility’ was more rhetorical than not. There are three words which I feel can fit into this exchange, i.e., fault, blame and responsibility. All of them overlap each other and there are no black and white answers, a condition by the way which I feel is the essence of life itself. We don’t really know much about anything. And that is our lot in general. But if we premise that we are not at fault for being on the edge of extinction, then that does not presuppose that another entity is at fault as you inferred.
We had no choice in the evolution of our DNA, and so we can’t blame ourselves for who or what we are. But since we are supposedly rational beings, we are then responsible for either being rational, or irrational, which brings the notion that we can be at fault for choosing the latter. So there is confusion as to which comes first…i.e., either we are irrational because we have no choice, or rational because we do. If we choose to act irrationally, i.e., make nuclear weapons for instance, then we can reasonably declare that our DNA was responsible for making them. If we are rational, and build nuclear weapons anyway, then the ‘fault’ concept comes to fill some of the confusion?
Some religious folks believe that everything has already been determined and prescribed by a God, and that ‘HE’ is omnipotent and so on, and yet avow that we have a choice in what we do, which seems contradictory. I guess it goes back to the chicken and the egg. What comes first …. Do we have choices, or not?
Did we have a choice in making changes in our social structures that would have prevented a possible catastrophic climatic condition for our species, and other species, or did we act only according to our instincts. Did our instincts prevent us from changing our ways? I think instincts trump rationality. While we may think that we are rational, in which case we would be able to make choices, we may in actual fact not have a choice. Forgive my cynicism, but the choice of whether or not we do have a choice is anybody’s guess.
If the above is confusing, then I am looking forward to being enlightened as I lean towards the concept that we are indeed rational and that we did have a choice in the way we did things, and still do. And so we are at fault for making the choices that we have indeed made, or not made.
I’ll put away the scotch….
“Above all these numerous animal species is placed man, whose destructive hand spares no living thing; he kills to eat, he kills for clothing, he kills for adornment, he kills to attack, he kills to defend himself, he kills for instruction, he kills for amusement, he kills for killing’s sake: a proud and terrible king, he needs everything, and nothing can withstand him… At one and the same time, man takes from the lamb its entrails for harp strings, from the whale its bones to stiffen the corsets of the young girl, from the wolf its most murderous tooth to polish frivolous manufactures, from the elephant its tusks to make a child’s toy: his dining table is covered with corpses. The philosopher can even discern how this permanent carnage is provided for and ordained in the whole scheme of things. But without doubt this law will not stop at man. Yet what being is to destroy him who destroys all else? Man! It is man himself who is charged with butchering man.
But how is he to accomplish this law who is a moral and merciful being, who is born to love, who cries for others as for himself, who finds pleasure in weeping to the extent of creating fictions to make himself weep, to whom finally it has been said that whoever sheds blood unjustly will redeem it with the last drop of his own?[Genesis 9:6.]
…He plunges unseeing into the abyss he himself has dug; he dies without suspecting that it is he himself who has brought about his death.[Psalm 9:16.]
Thus is worked out, from maggots up to man, the universal law of the violent destruction of living beings. The whole earth, continually steeped in blood, is nothing but an immense altar on which every living thing must be sacrificed without end, without restraint, without respite until the consummation of the world, the extinction of evil, the death of death.[I Corinthians 15:26.]”
Saint Petersburg Dialogues by Joseph de Maistre
Genesis 9:6 Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed
Psalm 9:16 The Lord is known by the judgment which he executes: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands
1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
At the end of the lineages, all we can do is sigh and wonder how to say goodbye… properly. We have no protocol, no precedent. Strange turf. Alienated. An unwelcome guest who lingers. We’re hungry and early but there is no place set for us at the dinner table anymore. Our beds have been taken out for an airing. Stuff thrown to the curb. Our own Mother Earth refuses to recognize us. We are the Black Sheep of existence. An embarrassment. How do we find a way to say goodbye when our host is so eager for us to go? We mumble and mutter and measure the miles past as though they were accumulated wealth, something we can hold onto. We loiter and try to delay the inevitable. We stumble and shuffle and wanly smile like clumsy fools. We try to apologize for the unforgivable. We were abusive. We want to be forgiven – given just one more chance, please… She refuses to listen. We broke her heart. She wants us gone. Rejection is awful. We’re being thrown out of this cozy house, into a bottomless void. She doesn’t love us anymore.
(To those who remember me, hello again. To those who never knew me, hello. I’ve been struggling with great losses and uncertainties. Just when you think you’ve had all that you can take, Life hits you with a hatchet and you go to pieces. Meanwhile… Guy, please pursue a healthier diet. http://nutritionfacts.org/)
Rationality is the mammalian & primate brain chauffeur in the driver’s seat, that finds a route. It is the non-rational, non-verbal reptilian brain, associated with emotions and values, that directs the chauffeur as to where to go. Science is a tool of rationality, like GPS in a car. Rationality can and often acts on behalf of non-rational emotions and values.
You said this in response to Lidia:
“we don’t have to get out of bottles we never got into in the first place. that stuff is for you humans to figure out.
we’re far too busy living, than getting worked up about holocausts – past, present or future. that kind of drama is for the humans that have time to waste on it.”
Are you serious? If so, I think I think I need a non-reality check.
I’ll have a pillow please;)
chalk one up for the activists:
Poaching vessel, the ‘Thunder’, sinks in suspicious circumstances, after longest pursuit of high-seas poachers in history – Crew rescued by Sea Shepherd activists
“This isn’t your usual rescue situation,” he said.
“We’ve been following them for the past 110 days and we are currently 90 nautical miles from port. They are running low on fuel and we suspect the captain has deliberately sunk his ship to destroy evidence of illegally poached fish.
“Thunder has been engaging in gross criminal activity and this is just the latest act of that activity. They haven’t been able to go to port because we’ve been following them daily and reporting their location to the authorities so they know as soon as they go to port they were going to be detained.”
It turns out that the growth of human carbon emissions is pretty close to exponential, with an R2 value of 0.988 for the default Excel curve fit. The spike in emissions from coal that starts around 2002 is the biggest contributor to recent total emissions. Given the persistence of the exponential growth over the past two centuries, it seems unlikely that anything in the foreseeable future will bend the curve downward.
Lively discussion today and Ben shines like a diamond. Thanks all!
It has often been said that, if the human species fails to make a go of it here on the Earth, some other species will take over the running. In the sense of developing intelligence this is not correct. We have or soon will have, exhausted the necessary physical prerequisites so far as this planet is concerned. With coal gone, oil gone, high-grade metallic ores gone, no species however competent can make the long climb from primitive conditions to high-level technology. This is a one-shot affair. If we fail, this planetary system fails so far as intelligence is concerned.
Quoted in “The Olduvai Theory: Sliding Towards a Post-Industrial Stone Age” by Richard C. Duncan
Originally from Fred Hoyle, Of Men and Galaxies (Seattle: University of Washington Press, 1964).
Damn, in 1964 Sir Hoyle had it all right.
Of course, except for Extinction, resulting out of the monkey- trap called industrial civilization
**no species however competent can make the long climb from primitive conditions to high-level technology.**
IMO, change *climb* to *decent*. As *climb* seems to indicate *progress*.
Because I just can’t seem to view the advance of civilization as *progress*.
I don’t view modern times as our **high point** – but just the opposite. I believe folks have become so full of shit that they are happy to celebrate their own destruction.
On more down to earth note – so far here in US of A presidential hopefuls are once again bottom of the barrel nazis and nutters. Hillary the good ole gal and upcoming brownshirt — or Jeb, a good ole boy, criminal and uber-cronie of elites everywhere – or maybe Rand Paul – the pampered, entitled nutter who thinks it’s 1776. And I’m sure the line-up will become even more pathetic before the big show.
Having grown up in the age of Dwight and JFK – where any of today’s candidates would have been laughed off the list the first time they opened their self-serving mouths.
Your best yet Guy! Endless appreciation for what you are doing!
Watching this—- your latest video —–was the antidote to the crazy making feeling I was left with after listening to David Lindorff interview Professor Harold Wanless on PRN (http://prn.fm/this-cant-be-happening-04-01-15/)
I must preface this by saying that I do applaud those that try to get out the facts about how dire our predicament is and I suppose in a way, this is what Lindorff and Wanless were trying to do in this audio. However it brought home to me one of the reasons why I come to this site, NBL and I find it to be such a refuge (for the most part!).
When Guy conveys information there is no cognitive dissonance as opposed to what occurred in this radio interview between Lindorff and Wanless.
I listened to the whole dang thing and it felt like I was taken down a rabbit hole of craziness.
It was cognitive dissonance at its finest (and I’m not talking about the F. Scott Fitzgerald quote here).
Definition of cognitive dissonance: “the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time.”
Actually it sounded like both Wanless and Lindorff were stressed due to cognitive dissonance during the whole interview!
Here are 2 contradictory beliefs emphasized in the course of their conversation:
“we are past the point of no return”
“we have got to get a hold of this” (which Wanless said at least 4 times).
Then even more contradictory beliefs regarding human’s capacity to “get a hold of this”:
Wanless said at one point “we are not smart enough to do this”
Then he states that “we are fully capable of doing this”
At around 42 minutes, Lindorff suggests to Wanless that perhaps scientists are holding back, not telling us the dire facts because they know we are past the point of no return and if they speak the truth, they will scare people. Good question Lindorff!
Wanless responds: “scientists are ridiculously cautious people” but it is “not hopeless” because “we have to get off fossil fuels and stop putting co2 in the atmosphere”.
Unless I missed something, I did not see anything that resembles hope in that response by Wanless.
Then he shocks Lindorff by saying that ocean and atmospheric heating could cause a die-off of the sea’s phytoplankton, reducing oxygen in the atmosphere (currently 21%) to a point that could threaten large mammals, including us.
Lindorff says he has never heard of this before! Guess he doesn’t follow Guy( or Robert Callaghan!) or science in general which has been predicting this for how long?
There was nothing new here except the delivery —— coming from more a mainstream scientist, one who has hob knobbed with John McCain and Marco Rubio speaking some truths that most don’t want to hear.
My heart went out to Professor Wanless as he clearly cares deeply and does seem to know we are toast yet he couldn’t bring himself to say it even on PRN.
But—–I’d rather hear the whole truth, that it IS too late. I’d rather hear that even though we do indeed have a death sentence from the moment of birth and it now looks as if all life on this planet has an expedited death sentence (thanks to homo un-sapiens) we can still live full, compassionate lives as Guy beautifully articulates and illustrates in his latest video.
On a final tangential note regarding denial/acceptance:
My father was in denial about his terminal cancer. He fought bitterly, furiously until the end. And he was old. And had a full life, not many hardships. He never allowed himself to accept his fatal illness which would have given him the space to forgive and love more deeply. It was a horrid thing to witness. The pain and heartbreak left in the wake of his unaccepted/denied death lingers still . . . . .
Can we accept the death of ourselves AND most, if not all life on this planet with dignity?
I’ve seen it both ways—-those who denied and fought death and were bitter until the end. I’ve known people that accepted their deaths and as such lived/loved more deeply leaving love and joy in their wakes.
This is something I’ve been thinking about lately, the acceptance phase that is possible when it comes to the fact of death. I come here because I’m not there yet and this place pushes me to reflect on this and try to come to terms with it. It would be easier (I think) to accept death knowing that life on earth would continue until the sun goes red giant, or an asteroid hits us or . . . anything but the reality we are faced with; humans (that would be me) have obliterated the spheres (bio, hydro . . . all but the litho?)
This (for me) makes the acceptance of death particularly challenging as there was comfort in thinking (many years ago) that life would go on after me on this beautiful blue planet.
PS: if/when it starts looking like Mad Max Fury . . . . then all bets are off. Death with dignity/grace might be kind of hard to pull off under those circumstances!
PSS helpful reminder, thanks Joni (get well!): “we are stardust, billion year old carbon, caught in the devil’s bargain”
@Gerald Spezio—-are you behind this?: http://www.climatecentral.org/news/climate-scientists-flying-18864
@BTD: I second what Apneaman and others say. I would add, we need you now more than ever!! That Jennifer Hynes presentation was brilliant (no cognitive dissonance)—-who IS she?
@Logspirit: hello again—so happy to see you here, always appreciate your comments —thank you
@Tom: you DO stay out of the fray don’t you?! Thanks for keeping the links coming. Agree with your response to R.C.
logspirit! hello! so good to see you here again. and to read your (as always) so beautiful, poetic words. (no delays! no shuffling please. do hurry!)
and I am so glad the hatchet, losses and uncertainties weren’t too terrible to take you away from us for good, and yes, to hear from you at least one more time! I dearly hope it isn’t the last. hang in there, my friend!
red fox –
“I think I need a non-reality check.”
waiter! a check and a pillow for our friend. thanks!
“The angels are lost in perpetual contemplation of an infinite glory.”
meaning: they know how to be alive in the world. simple stuff, really! so simple the animals grok it, effortlessly. humans? not so much. it feels strangely hair-raising, for some weird reason. never too late to give it a spin! maybe nature will have a second thought, if we can just get this one, little, teeny weeny thing right… for a moment. maybe? ha! maybe not!
why take it from me? take the oldest saw of the oldest seen from one human who lived it, and shared it:
“We stumbled on in the darkness, over big stones and through large puddles, along the one road leading from the camp. The accompanying guards kept shouting at us and driving us with the butts of their rifles. Anyone with very sore feet supported himself on his neighbor’s arm. Hardly a word was spoken; the icy wind did not encourage talk. Hiding his mouth behind his upturned collar, the man marching next to me whispered suddenly: “If our wives could see us now! I do hope they are better off in their camps and don’t know what is happening to us.”
That brought thoughts of my own wife to mind. And as we stumbled on for miles, slipping on icy spots, supporting each other time and again, dragging one another up and onward, nothing was said, but we both knew: each of us was thinking of his wife. Occasionally I looked at the sky, where the stars were fading and the pink light of the morning was beginning to spread behind a dark bank of clouds. But my mind clung to my wife’s image, imagining it with an uncanny acuteness. I heard her answering me, saw her smile, her frank and encouraging look. Real or not, her look was then more luminous than the sun which was beginning to rise.
A thought transfixed me: for the first time in my life I saw the truth as it is set into song by so many poets, proclaimed as the final wisdom by so many thinkers. The truth – that love is the ultimate and the highest goal to which Man can aspire. Then I grasped the meaning of the greatest secret that human poetry and human thought and belief have to impart: The salvation of Man is through love and in love. I understood how a man who has nothing left in this world still may know bliss, be it only for a brief moment, in the contemplation of his beloved. In a position of utter desolation, when Man cannot express himself in positive action, when his only achievement may consist in enduring his sufferings in the right way – an honorable way – in such a position Man can, through loving contemplation of the image he carries of his beloved, achieve fulfillment. For the first time in my life I was able to understand the meaning of the words, “The angels are lost in perpetual contemplation of an infinite glory.””
Viktor Frankl once recommended that the Statue of Liberty on the East Coast of the United States be complemented by a Statue of Responsibility on the West Coast:
“Freedom, however, is not the last word. Freedom is only part of the story and half of the truth. Freedom is but the negative aspect of the whole phenomenon whose positive aspect is responsibleness. In fact, freedom is in danger of degenerating into mere arbitrariness unless it is lived in terms of responsibleness. That is why I recommend that the Statue of Liberty on the East Coast be supplemented by a Statue of Responsibility on the West Coast.”
a holocaust of the innocents, every second.
a laughing phoenix stepping out of the fire, burning, laughing, burning – and Loving and Laughing, in Infinite Glory – yet again.
our menu is ever expanding. thanks for dining with us, and please come again!
Yes Caroline, indeed!
Having to accept that we are responsible for the untimely death of the biosphere is a terrible thing.
It has to be done though – I accepted it some time ago. However, playing with numbers as in “2000 something”, speculating on the death throws of life as we know it, is totally idle as far as I’m concerned.
I’m not counting the days, years…. I live now as best as I can and try to see the man-made absurdities, like seeing the world through the eyes of a goose.
Thanks mo, I enjoyed that! Absurd and not at all absurd at the same time. Thinking yourself into other beings….. is actually a very serious pursuit. You know that, I know.
I appreciate the beauty and complexity (the miracle of life here on our Earth) while there’s still some to marvel at. And maybe I’m lucky, I can still pretend a bit here where I live in the UK, especially on a day like today in my garden. It’s pure magic – still.
Getting on with each other here on NBL, in spite of our very different ways of coping in this monkey trap, should be a worthwhile pursuit for all of us, whether we throw reason out of the window or not.Does it really matter?
Once somebody said (was it ulvfugl, the wise man and joker in the pack?)that we here on NBL are all sitting around a campfire on the “beach of doom” telling each other stories until it’s no longer possible. I still like that metaphor “stories on the beach of doom” because really, we are doing no more than that.
Daniel Drumright says: “…NTE ends in only one of three ways for everyone: predation, starvation or suicide.”
The irreconcilable acceptance of near-term extinction
Predation, Starvation, or Suicide
The choices are three—very few
So it’s probably worth thinking through
What you plan to do
When the end reaches you—
And then wait your turn in the queue.
Tom directs us to a terrific site with a simple explanatory graph of the close to exponential growth of global carbon dioxide emissions from fossil fuels, 1751-2012. Data from CDIAC (cdiac.esd.ornl.gov). Graphic: James P. Galasyn
The simple graphic is both confirmation & prologue.
It clearly illustrates the great acceleration post Hiroshima.
It is pure Tufte & then some.
Combined with the Keeling Curve it screams; “Time to face the Music.”
Guy, & Caroline know what the are talking about.
Tom’s selected excerpt deserves repeating. Don’t miss the graphic.
Underestimating SLR is erring on the side of catastrophe (New Climate Catastrophe Policy: Triage – 12).
We have a tradition of erring on the safe side.
“Can we accept the death of ourselves AND most, if not all life on this planet with dignity?”
Yes, but you’ll have to go beyond the Kubler-Ross paradigm.
Yudhisthira, a prince, encountered Yama, the god of Death (a.k.a. Dharma, the god of Righteousness) in the form of a yaksha (a celestial being) who asked him many questions to test him.
“What is most wonderful?”
“Day after day countless creatures are going to the abode of Yama, yet those that remain behind believe themselves to be immortal.”
It is easy to bleat a platitude like “We all know that sooner or later, everyone is going to die”. Fergit ’bout acceptance ‘n such. ‘Tis a whole ‘nuther matter when ya grok it in yer bones that YOUR death is COMING. Then there are only two choices: YOU – yes, YOU – DIE, or whether you fight or submit, someone or something kills ya. More in Jenkinson’s book.
Also the only thing that’s stardust is the body-mind complex, a.k.a. the meat robot. The “I”, a thought, is part of the mind. None of it is sentient. Something that shuold have been taught in sermons. Actually, it is taught in sermons. Just not in the common ones.
Caroline, I plead innocent, but I wish that I could plead guilty, at least for that well stated attack on academics illustrating infrastructural determinism with murderous overtones.
I have been on Guy’s case of PREverted flying behavior ever since I met him, & he is one of the best guys we know.
Guy’s recent request for financial funding for an assistant to double the CO2 production made me more bummed & crazy, as if I ain’t bummed enough.
Larry Summers plans to corner the free market for both helium & helium bags.
Larry is determined to see his money continue to grow.
Larry is an economic & financial genius.
this is called a CLEAR, sunny, beautiful day in Washington DC http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/07/politics/power-outage-washington-dc/
ALEC is suing because they have been defamed & abused by preposterous falsehoods about their preposterous falsehoods.
ALEC says; “We are sick & tired of such abusive & untrue accusations from abusive environmental alarmist groups. We have plenty of legal geniuses in our stable, & we will see you in court.”
Stranger than fiction? Calling the kettle black?
Nope, it’s called Lawfare.
American Legislative Exchange Council Threatens Lawsuit Against Critics Who Point Out ALEC’s Climate Denial
The American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) has threatened public interest group Common Cause with a lawsuit for pointing out what the public record has made clear: ALEC denies the scientific consensus on climate change.
As first reported by The Washington Post, ALEC’s lawyers Alan Dye and Heidi Abegg wrote a cease-and-desist letter to Common Cause president Miles Rapoport. Dye and Abegg demanded that Common Cause stop calling ALEC a cog in the climate denial machine.
“We demand that you cease making inaccurate statements regarding ALEC, and immediately remove all false or misleading material from the Common Cause, and related, websites within five business days,” they wrote. “Should you not do so, and/or continue to publish any defamatory statements, we will consider any and all necessary legal action to protect ALEC.”
ALEC critics call the organization a “corporate bill mill.”
Dye and Abegg also demanded an immediate and public retraction of statements the Common Cause has made about ALEC with regards to climate denial.
Further, Dye and Abegg argued that ALEC — contrary to the vast amount of evidence collected by those who research the organization — does not deny climate change.
Looking forward to meeting you in Edinburgh tomorrow evening.
I have been following Guy McPherson for a while now and he is telling the truth, and I have learned all I can from him during the last year and a half. I feel it is time for me to move on. He has nothing new to say, I keep coming back here hoping he will have some bombshell to drop, but every time it is just clips of talks he gave long ago. Collapse has not happened yet, and likely will not happen tomorrow or the next day or the next. It will likely be years before the SHTF and I am not spending any more of my time waiting for it even though I hate this society with a fucking passion. I want it to collapse and end already, I am ready for it. Guy has been Dr. Doom for a long time and I sincerely wish him the best, he is a great man.
A new record high of 404.35ppm was achieved on 6th April, as the fossil fuel mania continued.
Annual CO2 usually peaks in May, so there is plenty of time to break through 405ppm, and maybe even break through 406ppm.
Regarding Woody’s comment: the effect of increasingly excessive carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is both instantaneous and cumulative. There is no 40 year time lag; that only applies to pulses of CO2. And the maximum effect has been demonstrated to occur in a lot less than 40 years -more like less than a decade, not that it matters when humanity has already drastically altered the geochemical systems that made life-as-we-knew-it possible.
I would like to interest you all in this magic potion I have made.
STEP RIGHT UP, ladies and gents….
I ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY “think” you
“can” live longer and feel better while this world crumbles.
Just send me some of that fake stuff you call money and….
Didn’t mean for anyone to feel uncomfortably “goosed”. The whole koan thing only works (or not) within the context of zen practice – which is definitely not for everyone, and does not aim to “make sense”. Think of it as a joke played on your ordinary mind – with your consent….
If you want more “explanation” (which zen teachers would call “painting legs on a snake”) go to my post
April 6th, 2015 at 5:36 pm
Thank you to all my friends here on NBL. You’re all so interesting, intelligent (even when you don’t get it – like me all too often), and contribute wonderful thoughts, links, ideas, and attitudes! Though we’ll likely never meet in person, i feel i somehow “know” you in some small way and i love you all. It’s absolutely crucial to me that we’ve come here to the Beach of Doom to commiserate along our sad trajectory and ultimate demise in all aspects from humor to anger to sorrow – may it all be out of love at the end.
celebrating the ‘push-back’ today with the Sea Shepherd story above, and now this: [Gerald: sometimes ya gotta play their game.]
Student Animal Rights Activist Sues Cal Poly Pomona for Requiring Permit to Speak
College student Nicolas Tomas filed a First Amendment lawsuit today against California State Polytechnic University, Pomona, with assistance from the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE). The lawsuit targets university policies that restrict where, when, and how students can exercise their free speech rights.
Tomas’s lawsuit is the ninth First Amendment lawsuit filed as part of FIRE’s national Stand Up For Speech Litigation Project. FIRE has retained preeminent First Amendment attorney Robert Corn-Revere of the law firm Davis Wright Tremaine and his colleagues Ronald London and Lisa Zycherman to serve as counsel for Tomas.
FIRE is a nonprofit educational foundation that unites civil rights and civil liberties leaders, scholars, journalists, and public intellectuals from across the political and ideological spectrum on behalf of individual rights, freedom of expression, academic freedom, due process, and freedom of conscience at our nation’s colleges and universities. FIRE’s efforts to preserve liberty on campuses across America can be viewed at thefire.org.
and, back to our regular program, with this:
“The Chief Of The Fukushima Nuclear Power Station Has Admitted That The Technology Needed To Decommission Three Melted-Down Reactors Does Not Exist, And He Has No Idea How It Will Be Developed”
This one ends with a statement about radioactive water hitting the West Coast in about 5 years. The problem is, it just arrived! There’s an article stating this by scientists in Vancouver today (and of course they’re playing it down)! [see: Fukushima radiation measured on B.C. shore for 1st time]
Hey Jonathan, we’ll be here (waiting like you) if you want to talk about anything. You KNOW it’s coming, so don’t wait for it, live your life with that outcome in mind – appreciate every precious moment and if you want, try to contribute to the happiness and well being of those around you. Good luck.
7-7-1962 In Las Vegas people flocked to hotel roofs to see the mushroom cloud rise. Sixty miles away at the Nevada Proving Ground the atmospheric test bomb “little boy” exploded. The atomic blasts were an exciting tourist attraction. Coffee cups & T-shirts were selling galore!
The Plowshare-Sedan test conducted on the hot July day before rocked sin city. The Desert Inn shook with the strongest shock recorded. The series of Sunbeam detonations had much more in store.
Guy: best of luck in Europe! Let ’em have it, make ’em laugh, don’t be afraid to touch their hearts with your feelings, as you have mine.
Little goin’ away music for you all:
Michael Kiwanuka – Home Again – Le Live
One day I know
I’ll feel home again
One day I know
I’ll feel strong again
And lift my head
I’ve been told
All this talk
Will make you old
So, I’ll close my eyes
Won’t look behind
So I’ll close my eyes
One day I know
Our paths will cross again
One Day I hope
To make you smile again
And I won’t hide
I’ve been told
Speak your mind, just be bold
So I’ll close my eyes
Won’t look behind
So, I’ll close my eyes
And the tears will clear
Then I’d feel no fear
Then I’d feel no way
Bypass what we made straight
I’ve been told
All this talk will make you old
So I’ll close my eyes
So I’ll close my eyes
@ Jonathan Walliser Says:
April 7th, 2015 at 1:16 pm
“I have been following Guy McPherson for a while now and he is telling the truth, and I have learned all I can from him during the last year and a half. I feel it is time for me to move on.”
I understand and empathize with your sentiment. However, 1.5 years, or even the 7.5+ years that this site has existed, is NOT a long time, even from a human perspective… despite mere seconds, on occasion, seeming like an eternity to mere mortals and others who proclaim to be more. There really is no point, or reason, to “hate this society with a fucking passion,” though I understand that sentiment, too. Moreover, you, like the rest of us, had no choice or say regarding the circumstances, the culture/society, into which you/we have been born and suffered. It may be of some psychological benefit to be angry at how and why you/we have been misled, but to dwell on that will only lead to more misery. As my daddy ALWAYS made abundantly clear, “It takes two to tango.” Otherwise, as Tom alludes, be well and enjoy the simple pleasures of life, try to minimize harm and maximize joy, love the ones you’re with and strive to overcome your programming to facilitate those goals during the time “we” have remaining.
Tom – Thanks so much for sharing your love for all us wounded misfits that gather here. We would not be on this beach if we didn’t care, if love had not brought us here. Let’s be gentle with each other, we have all suffered enough from the rough handling our culture dishes out. And if we sometimes lash out in anger, try to be forgiving and understand we are deeply disappointed by what is being done to our world and all of us. We desperately want to be more loving to each other, but sometimes it is all just too much for us….
if rats evolved with human-like intelligence, would they be more noble?
isn’t it nice knowing everything will okay in one of those other universes?
buddha, moses and jesus were fishing when jesus went out for a pack of beer by walking on top of the water, when buddha went to get some beer, he fell into the water, and moses said to jesus, do you think we should have told him about the rocks?
you can spend a lifetime selling doom, but you only gotta be right once.
Death Coaching or Death Coaching training schools looks like a winner (score high on the dte; death training exam) or at least an investment play – at least for awhile.
Thank you Jonathan Wallisser, for expressing most of my feelings in your post. There is much compassion in your statement: “I hate this society with a fucking passion.” From my perspective, you have climbed out of the boiling pot filled with frogs while others are being boiled to death and are oblivious to the dangers underneath.
In your statement lies most of the problems of our species. If we don’t recognize who we are, and what we have done, how can we change? To fix what ails, you must first recognize what makes you ill. From every pulpit one can hear about love, but the love away from pulpits quickly fades from view like a mirage in the Sahara.
You hate society, but you obviously love people. Otherwise, why would you keep coming back to this site without hoping that the society you hate will somehow recognize why it is hated, and not loved. You can love people, but hate what they do, much like you can love lions, but be careful not to be eaten.
Loved your post… Hope to read your thoughts again..
I’ve posted anew. Catch it here.
Melting Accelerates in Antarctica: So Far, 2015 Is Hottest Year Yet
“There is no pause in human-caused global warming. If anything, we’ve been lulled into a false complacency.”