a topic too hot to touch

by the virgin terry

all earthly organisms are in competition for limited energy and other crucial requisite ‘resources’. the reward for winning is survival, and if one is (un?!)lucky, genetic survival into future generations.

i think most here agree that the best thing that could possibly happen for the prospects of biological diversity of future gaian life, however slim those prospects may now be (although certainly still ‘highly possible’, i think even dr. guy mc (is it hammer time again?!) must admit!) (sorry for my chronic unwieldy thought process / sentence structure) … the best thing for gaian life now would be for industrial civilization to drop dead instantly. that too, although highly unlikely imo, is still ‘highly possible’, i must admit! i digress. the point is, industrial civ. has got to go, the sooner the better for gaian life overall (but certainly not for the better of sheeple like us, in terms of our ‘long term’ survivability!).

what i’m trying to get at here is the crux of an inescapable dilemma some supposedly sentient beings like us face, regardless of how imminent or not, ‘doom’ is. that is, our own survival must invariably come at the cost of at least some other organisms. after all, there’s only so much energy and other requisite resources available on any isolated finite planet. we all must feed off of other organisms, to literally ingest their ‘flesh’, be it animal or vegetable, to survive.

the more enlightened one becomes in terms of awareness of the interconnectedness, the relationships shared by all gaian organisms, as well as a shared ‘sentience’ or consciousness, the more one must be struck by the absurdity and meaninglessness of this life. the idea that it’s ‘sacred’ is just that, an idea, convenient for sentient beings to have in order to value their own lives, arguably requisite to survival in the short and ‘long’ term.

if one isn’t too averse to facing harsh surrealities, one must quickly perceive that there’s inevitable conflict between loving one’s own life, and giving a surreal shit about the life of other gaian organisms. all blather about loving life that’s not your own pales in this harsh light, if one chooses survival over suicide, does it not..?! it’s only via rationalization (‘i’m such an infintessimal part of a vast problem that my suicide shall surreally make no difference to ‘the big picture’) that an enlightened one can justify not committing suicide asap.

sharp sigh. pause for discussion. all are invited to participate.


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Comments 112

  • .

    Looking forward to war, famine, and pestilence.

    Just sitting on this runaway train, staring out the window, with a cat on my lap.

    The Voluntary Extinction Movement
    “…thou shalt not procreate.”

    The Church of Euthanasia
    “Save the planet, kill yourself.”

  • Well, virgin terry, yes, and no:

    Body is nothing more than emptiness,
    emptiness is nothing more than body.
    The body is exactly empty,
    and emptiness is exactly body.
    The other four aspects of human existence —
    feeling, thought, will, and consciousness —
    are likewise nothing more than emptiness,
    and emptiness nothing more than they.

    All things are empty:
    Nothing is born, nothing dies,
    nothing is pure, nothing is stained,
    nothing increases and nothing decreases.

    So, in emptiness, there is no body,
    no feeling, no thought,
    no will, no consciousness.
    There are no eyes, no ears,
    no nose, no tongue,
    no body, no mind.
    There is no seeing, no hearing,
    no smelling, no tasting,
    no touching, no imagining.
    There is nothing seen, nor heard,
    nor smelled, nor tasted,
    nor touched, nor imagined.

    There is no ignorance,
    and no end to ignorance.
    There is no old age and death,
    and no end to old age and death.
    There is no suffering, no cause of suffering,
    no end to suffering, no path to follow.
    There is no attainment of wisdom,
    and no wisdom to attain.

    The Bodhisattvas rely on the Perfection of Wisdom,
    and so with no delusions,
    they feel no fear,
    and have Nirvana here and now.

    All the Buddhas,
    past, present, and future,
    rely on the Perfection of Wisdom,
    and live in full enlightenment.

    The Perfection of Wisdom is the greatest mantra.
    It is the clearest mantra,
    the highest mantra,
    the mantra that removes all suffering.

    This is truth that cannot be doubted.
    Say it so:


    (Which means…)

    gone beyond,
    gone beyond the beyond.
    So be it!

    Prajnaparamita Sutra – the Heart Sutra of Perfect Wisdom

  • virgin terry, do you care about what you write, or are you just fucking off & typing away?

    Your thoughts & words are outright gibberish, & I can’t understand why you cavalierly present such drivel for others to even consider.

    You write nonsense for others to absorb/consume/consider?

    You own confused “thinking” is your own warrant for stupidity.

    You caution your “readers”; “sorry for my chronic unwieldy thought process / sentence structure)”

    Your thought processes are sorry alright.

    “Unwieldy thought process” is too kind – you are downright stupid & asinine.

    Your statement is nonsense; “however slim those prospects may now be (although certainly still ‘highly possible’”

    Openly claiming that events can be both “slim” & “highly possible” is nonsense.

    Why would Guy present such gobbledegook to us?

    You go on; “although highly unlikely imo, is still ‘highly possible’”

    If this is the best that you can do, putting such outright stupidity in print makes it more obscene.

    You better get off that shit before you go blind.

    Abuse of your mother tongue is real obscenity, as if we haven’t had enough of it from our top-of-the-heap trained double talking lying politicos, invariably trained in DALAW of the land.

  • WoodWose, your comment illustrates why I am in such a dilemma over this issue. I’ve described my situation as holding both idealist and materialist beliefs, where both have eaual value to me.

    The idealist side of me understands and agrees with what you posted:

    All things are empty:
    Nothing is born, nothing dies,
    nothing is pure, nothing is stained,
    nothing increases and nothing decreases.

    My materialist side knows that all life feeds on death, entropy wins, and love’s got sweetfuckall to do with it.

    Since I am unable to discard either viewpoint, I’m stuck with the dilemma – so far, at least.

    I’ve been playing with the idea of short-circuiting the inherent dualism of my situation by suimply dumping the contents of both worldviews into one big undifferentiated box ‘o beliefs without a label. But that seems like a copout. So I’m going to go eat some bacon and meditate on it for a while.

  • Not suicide, but, conscious shutdown of Industrial Civilization.

    You are describing or alluding to humans’ existence as animals within the ecosystem. Humans are conscious animals, and have abused their conscious capabilities to enable them to destroy the existence of the others, and to pull the rug out from under their own existence.

    For those of us (???) who have reached the supra-conscious level, i.e. able to see what that limited consciousness has done, our obligation, or at least the impulse of our remaining animal survival instinct, is to rollback that machine that is doing this.

    Like the wolf with his leg caught in the trap, and with death very near, amputation to survive, yes, but no, not suicide.

  • Good article Terry. Came up on my side screen as I prep a report for John Kerry at State Dept. Alaska SHELL oil deal & legal ways to proceed with induced target zone sea level cooling with ozone as Arctic safety measure…Yikes anything to keep consumer profits going till last minute. I’m always trying to work the best bits of Dr. Mc Pherson’s gathered data into their plans, tests & evaluations.

    The Environmental Modification Convention (ENMOD), formally the Convention on the Prohibition of Military or Any Other Hostile Use of Environmental Modification Techniques is an international treaty prohibiting the military or other hostile use of environmental modification techniques having widespread, long-lasting or severe effects. It opened for signature on 18 May 1977 in Geneva and entered into force on 5 October 1978.

    The Convention bans weather warfare, which is the use of weather modification techniques for the purposes of inducing damage or destruction. The Convention on Biological Diversity of 2010 would also ban some forms of weather modification or geoengineering.[2]

    Many states do not regard this as a complete ban on the use of herbicides in warfare, such as Agent Orange, but it does require case-by-case consideration.[3]”]

    Environmental Modification Technique

    [“Environmental Modification Technique includes any technique for changing – through the deliberate manipulation of natural processes – the dynamics, composition or structure of the earth, including its biota, lithosphere, hydrosphere and atmosphere, or of outer space.”

  • .
    Nothing matters, we cannot mobilize ANY solution, we are doomed.
    You can TRY to minimize your impact – but, many children starve each day in countries that ship food to us, over long distances, using lots of fuel…
    Nothing makes sense, our existence is abomination. There are bottles of WATER for sale at the 7-Eleven, water in plastic bottles shipped here from Iceland or Fiji or Italy. ABOMINATION.
    Fall down on the ground and sob…
    Yes, we are caught in a trap – the wolf can amputate its leg, but how does one amputate their soul? Please tell me.

    Looking forward to war, famine, and pestilence.

    Just sitting on this runaway train, staring out the window, with a cat on my lap.

    The Voluntary Extinction Movement
    “…thou shalt not procreate.”

    The Church of Euthanasia
    “Save the planet, kill yourself.”

  • Virgin Terry, and others,

    A simple fact of life brings us to where we are today – as inescapable as it is universal.

    Every species will increase in population up to the limit of the carrying capacity of the environment that it inhabits. Once that carrying limit is reached, the population will be subject to sudden collapse to then recover or the species will become extinct. If the species sits at the top of its ecosystem, is sufficiently numerous and widespread, and has caused significant environmental harm, as we have, then it will take all of the “dependant” species with it as it goes.

    The limiting factors include competition for food (energy), access to water, nesting habitat, pollution, disease, starvation, environmental change, the amplified effects of weather and natural disasters brought about by high population density, and social collapse and conflict brought about by all of the foregoing.

    Rather than using our unique powers or foresight and deductive reasoning to organise ourselves away from disaster, our species has used every contrivance at our disposal to simply minimise the more visible consequences of our existence in such numbers.

    This is not a moral issue however, because we are no less immune to the twin imperatives, to “survive and reproduce”, than any other living thing.

    “…I had seen and done things I wouldn’t have believed.
    I’d watched grammasites in flight over the pleasure domes of Xanadu,
    felt the strangeness of listeners glittering on the dark stair.
    I had cantered bareback on unicorns through the leafy forests of Zenobia
    and played chess with Ozymandias, the King of Kings…”

    We have had a good run; but it all but over, and now- only love remains.

  • Hi Snowstormguy,

    Welcome! I really liked your comment.
    English is not my native language either, but let me be the first one to say: Your English is great. No worries. I know a few native speakers here in England who could never write as well as you.

    And you’re only 23!

    Please keep posting your thoughts, experiences and impressions.

  • There seems to me a somewhat self-tormenting tone in some of the posts on here of late. We all know what visiting this website brings us – confirmation of despair. Yet nevertheless, I for one take a certain solace in knowing that you are all out there in your despair and yet you choose to still come here and share ideas – ignoble or noble it matters not – in a community that is essentially in the bowels of the Titanic trying to see out of a porthole that is already under water.

    I don’t post the Prajnaparamita Sutra (or anything else for that matter) as any kind of answer. These are just pearls that still remain on the beach, gleaming between the oil patches and the dead creatures.

    I understand you Paul Ch. – but remember the most important part of this most important sutra is the final lines. All else is … what we share here.

    I come back to T.S. Eliot – two excerpts from Four Quartets (Little Gidding):


    The dove descending breaks the air
    With flame of incandescent terror
    Of which the tongues declare
    The one discharge from sin and error.
    The only hope, or else despair
    Lies in the choice of pyre of pyre—
    To be redeemed from fire by fire.

    Who then devised the torment? Love.
    Love is the unfamiliar Name
    Behind the hands that wove
    The intolerable shirt of flame
    Which human power cannot remove.
    We only live, only suspire
    Consumed by either fire or fire.

    (and this part which contains the famous lines but which here I post with the lines – just as profound (perhaps more so) that come immediately after:

    We shall not cease from exploration
    And the end of all our exploring
    Will be to arrive where we started
    And know the place for the first time.
    Through the unknown, unremembered gate
    When the last of earth left to discover
    Is that which was the beginning;
    At the source of the longest river
    The voice of the hidden waterfall
    And the children in the apple-tree
    Not known, because not looked for
    But heard, half-heard, in the stillness
    Between two waves of the sea.
    Quick now, here, now, always—
    A condition of complete simplicity
    (Costing not less than everything)
    And all shall be well and
    All manner of thing shall be well
    When the tongues of flame are in-folded
    Into the crowned knot of fire
    And the fire and the rose are one.

    That is my two posts (my two cents 🙂 Peace to you all.

    “When the tongues of flame are in-folded
    Into the crowned knot of fire
    And the fire and the rose ……………………… are one.”

  • Woodwose – I find it remarkable that we now feel free to drop such spiritual gems as the sutra you have shared into the roiling waves of this discussion of our disastrous misdeeds and their probable consequence in our collective extinction. To my mind this is a good thing, as is Virgin Terry’s essay. The more varied ingredients in this fascinating stew, the better I like it. In any free-for-all such as this some gestures of politeness and unwritten limits are nevertheless useful to avoid a destructive chaos.

    In that spirit Woodwose please don’t take what I am about to say as a sign of disrespect for you or the beautiful sutra you have shared.

    When the highly developed and exquisitely abstract philosophies of India were brought to China, they met there a culture with a deep respect and profound appreciation for nature and the ordinary things of the world. A high expression of all this was Taoism. This was a philosophy that was suspicious of any words, teachings or concepts which strayed too far from the ordinary realities of material existence. The Tao Te Ching begins (in one translation)
    “The Tao which can be spoken of is not the eternal Tao.”

    Later on when Zen developed, there was a story of a monk who told his teacher, “I have emptied myself of everything. Now only emptiness remains.” The teacher responded, “Now get rid of this emptiness!”

    Thich Nhat Hahn asks the telling question of emptiness – “Empty of what?”

    Is emptiness empty of emptiness? Then what use is it? (the practical Chinese mind asks) Are we seeking to turn emptiness into a refuge from the world? What if emptiness is the world? What if emptiness is really full of everything just as it is, but not as we think it is. Maybe the world as it exists is exactly the truth – minus our deluded ideas about it?

    A monk asked a teacher, What is the ultimate truth of Buddhism?” He answered, looking out the window, “The cypress tree in the garden.”

    @Henry – I am 1,000% on the same page you just turned.

  • One more thing (with me there is always on more thing…)

    If you are not angry, confused, and deeply hurt – then you are not in touch with reality.

  • @mike k

    The translation of Rilkes Duino Elegies is by A. S. Kline:


    Yes, Rilke is blessed, poets are blessed, for they brake up the stiff corsett of spoken words and conjure songs out of it. Jesus must have been a poet and sometimes I do even think that I hear poetry in some discourses of the Buddha. After all, life is poetry, language is music, music is language. There must have been a time long ago, when both, singing and speaking were one, the time, when The Cosmic Spirit took refuge in the human beeing and turned the human mind into an offering to that burning, sacred fire within, into ecstasis for the first time…




    Poetry must be the dim remembrance of that time. Let’s remember the first time, the ancient time, when The Spirit, the Agni Fire for the first time entered human, mortal flesh and burned it down in ecstasis. Isn’t this Fire the cause that ALL flesh has to die for it cannot stand the Fire burning within? No thought, no emotion, no idea, no religion, no temple, no species, no body can stand that Self-Consuming Fire, yes, it’s a topic to hot to touch.

    Whoever wants to embrace God, whoever wants to get immortal, must die and be born again. Let’s die and be born again every evening, every morning, every breath, with poetry and music in our minds, for this ancient, eternal Fire is still burning within us, Brother. Gaté, gaté, paragaté, parasamgaté. Bodhi! Svaha!

  • Got the sack today from fucking honda, what a result

  • Since we seem to be in a poetic mood today, here’s an offering from my little velvet bag of shiny stones:

    Time to cash in your chips
    put your ideas and beliefs on the table.
    See who has the bigger hand
    you or the Mystery that pervades you.

    Time to scrape the mind’s shit off your shoes
    undo the laces that hold your prison together
    and dangle your toes into emptiness.

    Once you’ve put everything on the table
    once all of your currency is gone
    and your pockets are full of air
    all you’ve got left to gamble with
    is yourself.

    Go ahead, climb up onto the velvet top
    of the highest stakes table.
    Place yourself as the bet.
    Look God in the eyes
    and finally
    for once in your life

    ― Adyashanti

  • welcome SNOWSTORM – CROATIA – what a wonderful country. I loved the crystal clear waters of Plitvice National park in the summer of 2009. Hvar, Split, Lake bled of Solvenia. Wish we could save this world. Enjoy every living moment.

    @JEAN T. – I’ve appreciated reading your comments since last year. Hope this helps since you asked for more soecifics. Bennu is an Apollo asteroid discovered by the LINEAR Project on September 11, 1999. It is the planned target of the OSIRIS-REx mission which is intended to return samples to Earth for Energy compound tests. BENNU is a potential Earth impactor and is listed on the Sentry Risk Table with the third highest rating. At DARPA an A.I. named Bennu is being developed with the potential application to replace all human astronauts. BENNU was an Egyptian being who self-created the fabric of reality. Last week an A.I. bot got very testy about the meaning of morality. It also decided the meaning of life is to live forever….Hummmm…well I certainly enjoy these madcap moments as we rush toward CERN singularity right on the brink of Extinction. If life were a Universal theme ride then this CGI Jurassic world was a thrill. But I’m still concerned about nearly 500 nuclear plants in reality. Longer than the Carbon the radiation we leave behind will cause genetic mutations. For the sake of future Earth evolution I wish all of our energy was focused on not leaving the reactors behind in meltdown mode. No matter what hits us those of us at the top of science are most guilty for all the radiation that will remain.

  • virgin terry,

    You cite to nothing to support your scientific declarations, so I for one cannot discern what the topic is that you are in reference to.

    Perhaps it was too hot to mention?

    For example, you write: “all earthly organisms are in competition for limited energy and other crucial requisite ‘resources’. the reward for winning is survival, and if one is (un?!)lucky, genetic survival into future generations.

    That is an odd form of darwinism mixed with portions of an odd form of dawkinism, both of which are under serious reconsideration (A New History of Life).

    Epigenetics is a much more worthwhile subject than cop-out genetics (ibid).

    BTW, genes are not biological, they are abiotic molecular machines (On The Origin of Genieology, cf. The New Paradigm: The Physical Universe Is Mostly Machine).

    You wrote: “if one chooses survival over suicide” …

    False choice.

    So, why commit suicide when it is the practice of the civilization supposedly being dissed (Civilization Is Now On Suicide Watch, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)?

    Perhaps you advocate following the behavior of the leaders of civilization, or is it that you want only environmentally aware bloggers here to commit suicide?

    You won’t reach many deniers here, so I interpreted your words accordingly.

    Why not ask Oil-Qaeda to commit suicide so that species will not be mass-murdered by them, the mass-murderers?

    Anyway, I give you an “A” for effort.

  • Once you’ve put everything on the table
    once all of your currency is gone
    and your pockets are full of air
    all you’ve got left to gamble with
    is yourself.

    Ha ha ha, yes, can’t run away from yourself within, can’t run away from that self-consuming Fire within. I like that, I really like that^^

  • “Just sitting on this runaway train, staring out the window, with a cat on my lap”

    Keep us informed when (and if) the cat starts twerking.

    “or are you just fucking off & typing away?”

    Maybe an advanced stage of pat’s problem?

    “Since I am unable to discard either viewpoint, I’m stuck with the dilemma”

    But there is kaivalya – the one without a second. The realisation that all is purusha, the realisation of oneself (freed) from bondage to the “I” as purusha, and the recognition that prakriti is an apparition in purusha: and for that matter, the suffering in prakriti continues no less real within that realm of prakriti. There being no “other”, there is “non-di-lemma”.

    The inability to recognise purusha, its primacy and its distinction from prakriti:

    “there’s inevitable conflict between loving one’s own life, and giving a surreal shit about the life of other gaian organisms”

    “If you are not angry, confused, and deeply hurt – then you are not in touch with reality.”

    If you are angry, confused, and deeply hurt – then you are mistaking an apparition for your reality.

    “Whoever wants to embrace God, whoever wants to get immortal, must die and be born again”

    The Great Death is all that is needed: an end to the apparent reality of the “I”. The Self is birthless and deathless, the Void.

    “you or the Mystery that pervades you”

    Both are a a consequence of identification of oneself with the meat robot, the body-mind complex.

    “Look God in the eyes and finally for once in your life lose.”

    As long as the duality of self and other (in this case, meat robot and “God”) continues, it does not matter whether one wins or loses. Moreover, only the meat robot wins or loses. The Self cannot win or lose, since there is no other to be won or lost.

  • What about symbiosis?

  • Life is a sexually transmitted disease.

  • .
    The biosphere is dying – and we are killing it, that’s we, you and me.
    Roses are red,
    Violets are blue,
    I am guilty,
    And so are you.

  • In supporting Dr. Guy’s work, I am also aware that there is another paradigm at work here on Earth. Every 13, 000 years (+/-) our solar system passes through the galactic plane. Whenever this happens, there is aways massive climate change, along with a vibrational shift in the resonance of the planet. This can be seen in the change of the Schumann frequency………our Sun starts to change the quality of light that it shines on each and every planet. The raising of the planetary frequency always causes a subsequent rise in the consciousness of all self aware beings, like it or not. The result is a sorting out of orientation in consciousness, either towards service to others or a more intense service to self. Eventually the vibrational intensity causes the clear, pure hearted folk to make a transition into a consciousness of the interconnectedness of all of the creation, and an awakening to Unity consciousness. This process is hard wired into the planetary DNA and was set there as a limiting force for emerging species, i.e. human beings. There have been two other attempts to raise humans on this planet and they both failed………..it is difficult for a newly emergent technological race to give rapacious technology up in favour of more benign technology. Nicola Tesla gave the world access to limitless free electrical energy when he lit up the World Fair in Paris over a hundred years ago. His genius was stolen and buried under a mass of Patent Law, never to see the light of day. Recently I know of one man who developed a zero-point energy machine that would supply unlimited electrical power for individual use at a cost of about $700, the FBI and CIA shut him down as he started production. There are so many available non polluting alternatives to fossil fuels that it is a mark on man’s poverty of character that he has not implemented them, all in the name of corporate profits.
    Death is but a doorway, and always we are judged by our behaviour during our lifetimes, there is no escape from this Truth. I have studied the lower astral realms for years as a shaman, and can verify that the pits of suffering are very crowded, and there is endless room for more. The only way forward is into the Light realms, and like it or not, we all have personal work to do to prepare the vessel.

  • Mark,
    Thanks for your attempt to inform me of the acronyms in your posts. Still above my pay grade but they are at least in a language I am familiar with — Greek. Nevertheless, I much appreciate your efforts and patience.

    You wrote: “The biosphere is dying – and we are killing it, that’s we, you and me.” It’s the ‘you and me’ that struck the loudest cord.

  • Martin brings up symbiosis. In fact, as the late great evolutionary biologist (and later on, 9/11 truth activist) Lynn Margulis demonstrated in her work, such as her magnificent book The Symbiotic Planet (1999), symbiosis is a far more common form of interactions between species than is competition. Her conclusions are supported by many evolutionary biologists, including Lewis Thomas in his Live of the Cell 40 years ago.

  • The rate at which twenty-first-century industrial humans destroy their own life support systems is largely dependent on two critical factors:

    1. The price and availability of fossil fuels.

    2. The price and availability of fiat credit.

    (The real cost of these factors is never included in pricing.)

    The powers that be responded to the crash of 2000-2001 by reducing the price of credit.

    The powers that be responded to the peaking of global conventional oil extraction by setting the cost of credit at historically low levels and by encouraging extraction by unconventional methods.

    The powers that be responded to the initial unravelling of Ponzi finance that occurred around 2007-2008 by transferring liability from the private sector to the public sector and pushing financial liabilities into the future.

    The powers that be responded to further unravelling of Ponzi finance by ‘printing’ larger and larger amounts of fiat credit and large ‘lumps of computer digits……which largely went into bubble share markets and bubble housing markets.

    The powers that be responded to the failure of their efforts to stimulate economic growth by reducing the cost of borrowing to zero. And when that did not work, they started imposing negative interest rates.

    Meanwhile the energy return on energy invested for most energy sources continued to fall and the demand destruction that accompanied the loss of well-paid employment contributed to an ever-greater squeeze on the system. People with reduced income spend less.

    The current situation has many parallels with the situation of the 1930s.

    The ‘solution’ to the impasse of the 1930s was wide-scale war. Of particular note were the attempts by Germans to gain control of the energy and mineral reserves located in Russia and the Middle east, and the attempt by the Japanese to take control of, and maintain control of, the oil reserves of the islands to the south-east of Asia.

    However, compared to the thirties, as we all know, there are now three times as many people on Earth and most of the energy reserves that were relatively untapped then are now well depleted. Or gone altogether. What is more, the seas have been largely stripped of fish, the land has been extensively ruined, and the climate has been destabilised.

    As of the end of June 2015, it is clear to the powers that be (by which I mean the European-American money-lenders, heads of corporations and bought-and-paid-for politicians) that there is no way out -other than to crash the system and attempt to impose a fascistic ‘one world government’. And it is finally starting to dawn on some of the ‘ignorant masses’ that things are starting to fall apart.

    The Neocon agenda of preventing any nation from challenging US global hegemony has failed. Neither Russia nor China is prepared to become a vassal state of the American Empire.

    It is unlikely the Obama administration will do what Gorbachev did and quietly dissolve the American Empire. All the evidence indicates that the Obama administration will persist with the same policies of confrontation and failure until it can’t. Whether the Obama administration is prepared to start an unwinnable war with Russia and China is still open to debate. Many commentators think the maniacs in Washington and those that prod them are sufficiently deluded/insane to try anything.

    What all this amounts to is the biggest ‘reset’ in the history of the world. And it is coming very soon.

    So, Terry, we can philosophise and debate as much as we like -and get intellectual stimulation and comfort from doing so- but it will not make one iota of difference. Paraphrasing what Doug Casey said recently (previously linked video) the snowball is perched above the village and will roll down the hill, gathering momentum and size, and will wipe out the village. The only sensible action is to get out of its path while there is still time.

    Most credible commentators point out that the system should have fallen over long before now, and the longer the system keeps functioning (in its dysfunctional manner) the worse it will be for every human (and most species).

    I am still working on the basis an economic crash will come in the period September 2015 to December 2016, and am doing what I can to prepare…..and alert the few who will listen to sound advice.

    The effect of a crash of the economic system on the environment is still a mute point. Obviously, a decline in industrial activity will reduce Global Dimming. But again that there is the prospect of increased particulate matter in the atmosphere as a consequence of war. Or forests burning like never seen before.

  • Kevin you put it in a nut shell very well and you make it clear the end is near! Could you continue with more about “alert the few who will listen to sound advice” maybe your take of “The only sensible action is to get out of its path while there is still time” I’m all ears the above post is way above most, so when you can, tell us more of the plan? man Thanks that is really a good comment truly Kevin !

  • @Henry: “You are describing or alluding to humans’ existence as animals within the ecosystem. Humans are conscious animals, and have abused their conscious capabilities to enable them to destroy the existence of the others, and to pull the rug out from under their own existence.”


    @John: “Rather than using our unique powers or foresight and deductive reasoning to organise ourselves away from disaster, our species has used every contrivance at our disposal to simply minimise the more visible consequences of our existence in such numbers.”

    Spot on! As per the title of Craig Dilworth’s brilliant book, we’re “Too Smart for Our Own Good”. Or as Guy so aptly put it, we belong to the species Homo Callidus not Homo Sapiens.

  • @tvt, you just need a little editing.

    Gerald is often right, but he doesn’t have to be such a jerk about it. I agree that words have meanings and it is best to be aware of what they are.

    For all the consciousness fans out there, Apneaman linked to this over at CoIC:

    “Consciousness — the internal dialogue that seems to govern one’s thoughts and actions — is far less powerful than people believe, serving as a passive conduit rather than an active force that exerts control, according to a new theory proposed by an SF State researcher. … According to Morsella’s framework, the “free will” that people typically attribute to their conscious mind — the idea that our consciousness, as a “decider,” guides us to a course of action — does not exist. Instead, consciousness only relays information to control “voluntary” action, or goal-oriented movement involving the skeletal muscle system”


    @mike k, what makes you think that experiencing material processes would be beyond the perception of materialists?

  • So much going on…can hardly keep up! Thanks, all for the great work, everyone. You too, VTerry! ( And, Daniel, thanks for expressing your strong feelings.)

    Sabine, you’re always so right on! Thank you for the tragic story of your family in WW2. What else could the grandfather do? My heart breaks for him.

  • all these systems and socially normalized psychological constructions just seem to last too long. They re too dynamic and just go on and on way too long. i expect just my luck on so many things to just suffer through it with brief glimpses until being whacked over the head.

    meaning comes through action. first prescription for the blues is exercise, or practicing your musical instruments.

    Nothing here now but the recordings. i expect the only thing left to do is read all of Keats and sit see what happens..

  • I have seen two Monarch butterfly. One today and one yesterday. My yard has milkweed that is flowering and the aroma is stunning.

  • I’ve seen exactly one Monarch butterfly this year. They were ubiquitous when I was a child in the 70’s. Fast forward 40 years and they’re nearly gone. A portent for our own species.

  • Tonight
    Waxing gibbous in Sagittarius
    blood red at zenith,
    here in the bluffs of the Racoon
    in Iowa.
    I heard the haze is from the fires
    out west.

    Which fires?
    Arizona, California, Idaho, Nevada, Oregon, Washington
    Alberta, British Columbia, Northwest Territories, Yukon

    Something is in the wind.

  • Two really good articles at Scribbler the last couple of days, on on 6/26, the other today 6/29m about the extreme heat Oregon to Alaska, brining the worst fires EVER. And another article on the extreme drought affecting South America and the Caribbean.

  • ANDREW – when Tesla died in 1934 on the 33rd floor of the New Yorker hotel J.Edgar Hoovered up the proton energy beam docs in Telsa’s room along with Nicoli’s body. The direct energy weapon was a strongly considered proposal rather than developing the Atomic bomb.

    Tesla also gave us the secrets to “have blue” clocking device. You can use satellites to see the brand new super hanger almost finished at area 51 Groom lake AFB. The Telsa free energy orb works fine. It is much like WiFi signal to run lights & elect motors. J.P. Morgan was dead set against Tesla because there was no profit in funding free energy. GE, Edison & George Westinghouse had a huge corporate propaganda battle over A/C vs direct current. Today I realize that whatever energy we create only enables rampant commercialism. The message of consumerism feed to the masses would have to change…but I think it is too late in the game for this Atlantis scale experiment. Time for the Rinse & repeate cycle….but wow the collective story of Industrial Civilization is one to remember if anyone can survive the radiation that came with this nuclear package of progress & destruction.

  • Scribbler is an eclectic doomer cherry picking the low-hanging fruit. I especially love the endless comment moderation purgatory in which my posts languish. That’s why I like NBL, moderation is almost non-existent.

    I have been a prepper doomer since 1976, if there’s one thing i’ve learned it’s patience. Here’s an updated scary post I put up at reddit/r/collapse, seems it was a little too gloomy for young’ins over there.

    How Fast Will Collapse Be?
    We only have about 10% of our earth’s original forests left. We cut more than 18 million acres of forest every year. We already slashed and burned half the rainforests on earth. Rainforest soil is of poor quality and quantity so farming it only degrades it even faster. Rainforest roots are so dense, they don’t require robust and plentiful soils. But, why is this so important to how fast collapse will be? The answer lies straight ahead.






    In 2007, the IPCC told us emissions must peak by 2015 to stay within 2 °C of warming.

    In 2014, the IPCC told us emissions must peak by 2030 to stay within 2 °C of warming.

    The IPCC says we can make this change because of what they call “negative-emissions bio-energy”. meaning we will get energy by consuming plant matter so it pulls more CO2 out of the air than it emits; for which, by the way, no such technology exists, and the kicker is, they say, that we will need 1.5 billion acres of NEW farmland to do it. That much farmland is about the size of India, which is equal to nearly 50% of all the arable land on earth.

    The acronym for this fantasy is BECCS (Bio-Energy Carbon Capture & Storage). The real acronym is BS (Bull Shit). Where do you think we’ll find all this new farmland? The rainforests. World hunger will guarantee it. Why? Read on.



    In 60 years, human agriculture will ground to a stop because of soil loss and degradation. 20% of China’s soil and 50% of its groundwater is already unsafe. We are right now already slashing and burning Brazil’s rainforests just to feed China’s pigs. China’s pigs already eat 50% of the soy grown in South America. The Chinese are buying up farmland all over the earth.




    We have to grow more food over the next 50 years than we grew in all of the last 10,000 years, combined. We already converted nearly half the earth’s surface into cities and farmland. This is because we add 1 million people to earth every 5 days.




    We will need 12 million acres of brand new farmland EVERY year for 30 years to feed that many people all their lives. Instead, we are losing 24 million acres of farmland EVERY year. We are losing soil at twice the rate we need to grow it just to be able to eat, never mind the additional requirements of BECCS.


    We will soon run out of easy access to 2 critical fertilizers which are irreplaceable, cannot be manufactured by humans and for which there are no substitutes.


    In 10 years 4 billion people will be without enough water.

    In 10 years 2 billion people will be severely short of water.


    Ground water depletion has gone critical in major agricultural centers worldwide.




    The world’s rivers and lakes are drying up.



    Drought is spreading across the earth. Try growing food for 8 billion people without water and soil. We kill elephants and orangutans before slashing and burning Indonesia’s remaining rainforests just to grow palm oil that is burned in Northern Europe’s German cars. We call this the Green Economy on account of how green people are behind the ears when it comes to their e-CON-omy.


    In 25 years we will pass peak energy and minerals.


    This will happen when all our new solar panels and wind mills stop working and become expensive junk we can’t afford to replace or recycle in times of shortages in water, food, energy, minerals and civility. Recycling their component alloys costs more and uses more energy than mining for them does. Green Jobs without the pension.



    Over the next 50 years energy demand will double (at the same time we have to reduce emissions at least 50%) because over 2 billion rural refugees will move to cities, and 75% of the infrastructure they require does not even exist yet. Already, China has poured more concrete in the last few years than the U.S.A. has in all of the last 100 years. Concrete production is a super-emitter of carbon into the air.

    Yet, it also takes 10 times the amount of rated renewable energy to close one equally rated fossil fuel plant simply because renewable energy is intermittent and fossil energy is not. It will be a physical impossibility to meet all future demand with 100% renewable energy and reduce emissions all at the same time.


    M.I.T. predicts world economic collapse in 15 years.


    Lloyd’s of London predicts the end of civilization in 25 years.


    But, don’t you worry your pretty little head about any of this because there’s always our backup planet.


  • John,

    Using your own word “moral”: It IS a moral issue! We are just a species like any other except that we can decide what to do, how to behave.

    We ALWAYS have choices, even in situations of trauma and stress.

    And with regard to “survive and reproduce” (a very simplified understanding of Darwinism IMO), a human can choose to reproduce – or not.
    As an example, I made the conscious choice not to reproduce, and I’ve never regretted it, not for a nano-second.
    Many other women who comment here made the same decision.

    Women have always made these choices, and they still do. It seems to me, you’re just not aware of it. Birth-control and abortions have always been around in patriarchal societies, whether men notice it or not. You’d probably be surprised what goes on under the radar – and always has done if women had the chance. However, the more repressively patriarchal a society is, the more difficult it becomes for women. Yet the truly desperate ones are brave and try and limit their offspring. No mother wants her children to starve, live in abject poverty, so abortion was/is always a choice for women – all over the world – in all cultures, never mind what the “law” says.

    It’s just that the subject is taboo. Maybe you could try and find out about these “choices” for a start. I am mentioning it here as a good example for “choices”.
    Maybe animal mothers make these choices too. A herbivore might eat the “right” plants to induce miscarriage, knowing, sensing that her offspring won’t survive – influencing her hormones. Maybe…We don’t know because really we know very little about life and consciousness, in spite of all the good science and spiritual paths around.
    We are now starting to find out how life works and interacts, co-operates etc, I grant you – but to no avail.
    That said, the humans “in charge”, the ones that choose “our species’ culture(s)”, seem to prefer to make choices which enable them to learn plenty about how to exploit and destroy life. And that’s what they decide to do.

    Maybe this is something to contemplate/meditate on for the men who like to simplify Darwinism and reduce it to “survive and reproduce”.

    Then, they could try and think themselves into other beings. I’d recommend starting with the females of your own sex. You’d be surprised what you could learn. Them maybe try animals and plants.

    The situation we find ourselves in was always/is man-made – humans have chosen certain things over others. All along the way, no matter how far you go back, different choices could have been made. The same applies to personal lives (unless you have learning difficulties).

    Now – to paraphrase Guy – “all that remains” is applying this way of being in your personal life: “a life of excellence” which is a moral choice. Apart from ethical, we have no other word for it – again you can choose which word expresses your own feelings best.
    Do you see what I mean? The choices are there for you to make every minute of you life. It’s up to you.

    And let’s not get into whether there is a “free will” and the meaning of “consciousness”. I couldn’t bear it. Just make the “right” choices”

    In other words: You can choose to connect with the life around you, and yourself, of course, in the way that you need/want to.

  • Life is a giant bio-chemical experiment with physics thrown in for good measure.

    There has not been one honeybee observed thus far in 2015 in this neck of the woods. It’s a goddamn shame.

  • Not everyone is fleeing to palatial Tanzania estates… notice the roof-top apt and beach house (have to go to the original link in the article.)

    You still have to contend with the vicious NYC sewer/trash odors though.


  • tvt: As a fellow English language butcher, I got the gist of your essay and agree that no matter what one’s coping mechanisms/religious/spiritual convictions and/or psychological bent – we’re on our way out after ruining a perfectly good planet with our multitudes, pollution and lack of stewardship, not to mention completely human-centric worldview. Thanks.

    California drought taking serious toll on aging sewer system in San Francisco


    You might think that the drought would give the sewer system a break, with not as much water going through it. But, while San Franciscans are sending less water down the drain because of conservation, the same, or more sewage is being sent through the system that isn’t being drained as well as before.

    “It’s an organic material. It breaks down. It creates hydrogen sulfide. That eats up the concrete in the pipes if it sits there long enough,” Moala said. [read the rest]

    There’s that pesky hydrogen sulfide again.


  • And this: From Minister Louis Farrakhan:

    A must listen ALL the way through!


    The US is a P.O.S. Burger Kings to White Black Killers

    “We’ve caught has much hell under the American Flag as the Confederate one.”

  • (woo alert)

    “I don’t post the Prajnaparamita Sutra (or anything else for that matter) as any kind of answer.”

    Indeed. And in the sense that answer = solution, it’s not much help in the context of our myriad problems. But as a possible alternative orientation, such pearls are beyond price. Back in the day, we had a common aphorism that said “For those who have had the experience, no explanation is necessary. For those who have not, none is possible.”

    And then Jimi asked us “Are You Experienced?”

  • Re: Gerald Spezio

    If G.S. does not return to NBL, I for one will miss him. I think he is, and has been one of the best commentators here. We’ve lost Ulvfugl whom I considered the very best of all. Both created controversy, and both highly respected Guy. Other commentators asked Ulvful to leave the site, but Guy never did. Unfortunately, in my opinion, Guy has asked G.S.to leave. I do not know what “insane beliefs” Guy is referring to. Noam Chomsky was pilloried for writing a preface to a book by a French writer who questioned or denied the Jewish holocaust because he supported free speech.

  • There is the sweetest bird dying out in my yard. It is so weak that as it lies on its back it can only move enough to shake its head to keep ants and blue bottle flies out of its eyes. About the size of a cardinal, it is brown with a yellow breast. I’ve never seen a bird like it.

    I don’t want to just let it suffer in the sun with ants and flies attacking it. I’m asking, should I put it out of its misery or leave it alone. Since most living things die alone and in misery, I’m prone to let it be. But I know that if I was in that state, I would welcome a painless merciful death.

    What should I do?

  • I saved an Elm tree today from the chainsaw blade of Hydro One here on the north shore of Lake Ontario, the tree which I found buried within a bush four years ago on the edge of our property was near death from lack of sunlight. After cutting away the bush the Elm has risen to a height of twenty one feet and broadened beautifully, the Hydro One Clear Cut Patrol deemed it a threat to the wires….but I have won a reprieve for this wonderful Elm….does it make a difference?…I believe it does…

  • From a scholarly work:

    Accountability is the missing conceptual link in the current debate over how best to advance democracy. Democracy affirms the need to justify decisions made by citizens and their representatives: it is a system that connects the values of the individual with the decisions of the collective. The preferences of citizens revealed by fair elections (representation) or organized and definitive discussion (deliberation) are the starting points of democratic legitimacy.”

    (When Accountability Is A Plague). It would seem that accountability is too hot to handle.

    Why hold those responsible for addicting civilization to oil accountable?

    Because we love democracy, and accountability is the starting point of democratic legitimacy.

    Why are so many on this site in favor of people who know NTHE is the work of the oil industry getting control of relevant government agencies committing suicide?

    “Save the planet kill yourself” sounds to me like oil industry engendered propaganda.

    They would “love” it if environmentalists like Dr. McPherson would commit suicide, along with all NBL readers.

    They would laugh at such foolishness and say “good riddance.”

    (Petroleum Civilization: The Final Chapter (Confusing Life with Death) – 4).

    Choose your trances carefully (Choose Your Trances Carefully).

  • Cradle it Kirk and attempt to relieve its thirst, it may only be stunned, if not the action of cradling will negate the dying alone….

  • Kirk — I would bring it inside (or into a garage) in a box with a towel in the bottom, and bowls of water and birdseed. If it’s too weak to fly it won’t get loose in your house……

    It may just be extremely weak from thirst, which you can correct pretty easily with an eyedropper.

    But then I keep pet birds (I know, I know, but I’ve loved them all for 20 years since my daughter worked in a bird store) and have tried to save wild ones on several occasions — it rarely works, but you can make them more comfortable.

  • Thanks Paul and Ken…I’m on it!

  • Kirk, Paul & Ken,

    Whoever would have thought that grown men could care for birds needs to rethink men’s nature. Thanks for that. As for the bird, she now has a better chance to see tomorrow than before.

  • Jean — now don’t start thinking I’m going to get soft on HUMANS …. just birds (and sometimes kitties :-))

  • Please let us know if the little bird survives.

    Sabine wrote on another site about how ferns that she needed for a healing remedy grew like magic where they normally don’t grow under big shade trees. Every comment can have long lasting impressions even though we can’t choose to thank them all for the little ways they effect us.

    We had a breakthrough today with a Swiss lab under contract developing Quantum Tunneling which is a prerequisite to faster-than-light travel.

    I’m not afraid to say it is like a miracle & Sabine growing magic as we prove faster-than-light information transfer. The phenomenon of quantum tunneling, where signals appear to pass through barriers at superluminal speed, is often cited as such empirical evidence. Experimental and theoretical work indicates that the information transfer rate is only apparently superluminal, with no causality violations. Although the leading edge of the signal does appear to make it through the barrier faster, the entire signal is still light-speed limited.

    We loose so much wonder with the stupidity of creating destructive forces in our other labs. Greed & overconsumption…or a flash of evolution quantum light infused in all. Universal forces are working thru us all to evolve in many ways. Many choices. Collective voices here to alter the dominate paradigm & consumer program. The huge change will probably be collapse…but it still does not have to be if we were not so hostile to distant forces offering other choices & solutions.

  • too hot to touch for a good reason or two:

    Teen Faces Charges For Encouraging Friend To Commit Suicide: Cops

    Encouraged Suicide Laws in the United States

  • https://arctic-news.blogspot.ca/2015/06/dramatic-sea-ice-decline-in-beaufort-sea-in-june-2015.html

    Tuesday, June 30, 2015
    Dramatic Sea Ice Decline In Beaufort Sea in June 2015

    [check out the animated graphs]

    Mark: the only problem is that all human knowledge is now being “harvested” to be used in the war/death machine of hegemony. The computer and phone technologies have made our lives ‘more interesting’ but is killing the planet; though we’re distracted by its glitz and glam, the “gee wow” of communication with others across the globe instantaneously, it isn’t worth the cost. Quantum tunneling to what end? Thanks for your contributions here.

  • Guyo Smith Says:
    June 29th, 2015 at 3:22 pm
    Kevin you put it in a nut shell very well and you make it clear the end is near! Could you continue with more about “alert the few who will listen to sound advice” maybe your take of “The only sensible action is to get out of its path while there is still time” I’m all ears the above post is way above most, so when you can, tell us more of the plan? man Thanks that is really a good comment truly Kevin !

    Guyo, Thanks for the comment.

    Unfortunately, I cannot tell you more of ‘the plan’ because there isn’t one.

    I saw the writing on the wall around 1968, when I was living in Southampton and recognised that England was overpopulated and hierarchical. I migrated to New Zealand in 1974, a year of mass migration from Britain, following the first oil shock and the three-day working week which was a consequence of energy shortages triggered by the miners’ strike.

    of course. back in the late 1960s and early 1970s there was a movement towards addressing all the issues that needed to be dealt with. As I (and others) discussed previously, the money-lenders and corporations sabotaged the sustainability agenda and maintained western nations on the path that leads to self-annihilation via pollution and depletion of resources -what emeritus professor Albert Bartlett many years ago described as the completely insane philosophy of ‘energy security via rapid depletion’. Thanks Thatcher and Reagan. And in NZ, Robert Muldoon, Roger Douglas, Richard Prebble and all the other self-serving liars and arseholes who followed them and foisted loot-and-pollute policies onto the people via a litany of lies.

    The whole story is too long to relate here so I will abbreviate by saying I ended up in Auckland in the 1990s, and it took me several years to escape. I relocated to New Plymouth in 2006 because it was a location I was familiar with and because Taranaki has a temperate climate and even rainfall, and not too many people.

    In 2007 I put a lot of time and energy into waking people up, and presented three scenarios:

    1. An informed community, well prepared for what was coming.
    2. A ‘fortress’.
    3 ‘Run for the hills’.

    In 2007 I had little idea just corrupt the local council was (is), or how stupid most people are. Now I have no illusions: articles, letters, books, television interviews, radio interviews, campaigning etcetera made no difference whatsoever and the council continued (continues) to squander energy and resources at the maximum possible rate and to degrade the sustainability of the district, whilst he bulk of the people regarded squandering of energy and resources and degradation of the environment as just fine….. bread and circuses.

    Needless to say, the mainstream narrative is now falling apart, with low export prices for most of the things that NZ exports, job losses, debts……you name it. It is merely the stampede from other countries in a worse state, mostly to Auckland, that is propping up the façade in the short term….all that house construction and retail construction, plus roads, sewage systems, electrical systems etc. that keep people employed and keep the fiat money flowing.

    Most of the fruit trees I planted 8 or 9 years ago are productive, and I have soil instead of lifeless dirt in my gardens. I have two greenhouses that extend the growing season (quite long anyway). I can get to most places I want to get to by bicycle (and have four). I have lots of hand tools and know how to use them. I know how to desiccate fruit for storage, how to make wine, and have a good store of firewood. I can collect rainwater if I need to.

    Anyone who failed to heed the numerous warnings given over many years (most people) will soon find themselves ‘up the creek without a paddle’.

    There are a few people I discuss the impending collapse with on a regular basis, but I no longer attempt to wake up the majority because it is now too late….other than perhaps converting digits in banking systems of paper assets into something tangible. Indeed, I have been talking with someone I met fairly recently about avoiding major financial losses by converting digits in to something tangible. Gold or silver are discussed a lot but one cannot eat gold or silver and exchanging either to something useful could be ‘stressful’ in the future.

    I follow markets and political developments fairly closely, primarily in order to not get caught off guard but have already taken most of the actions others talk about (but don’t put into practice.

    One of the oddest aspects of this whole mess is that. despite all factors that are in the process of bringing the system down, it somehow seems to keep going. How many times have we expected a major jolt and not seen one? There was an adage: add two years to the estimated time frame and you’ll be close. However, there has been so much kicking the can down the road over the past decade I cannot see how we can ‘add another two years’.

    One aspect I did not mention previously is that low oil prices are hammering the profitability of oil companies -and that is critical in the case of companies like BP, which props up Britain. And there is the matter of yield. Insurance companies and retirement schemes are dependent on ‘reasonable yield’. and there isn’t any.

    I see negative interest rates -increasingly common- as the straw that breaks the camel’s back of the financial system.

    I don’t know if my rambling’s are of any help. In summation, everything is rigged -interest rates, exchange rates, commodity prices etc.-and everything in the present system is totally unsustainable. And every day the system persists increases the eventual carnage.

  • Excellent piece Ken. Delusions have trumped clear seeing thru the ages – to our detriment. Ignorance and hubris make a deadly combination.


  • @Mark, I agree with Tom. What is so wonderful about instantaneous communication? Unnatural speed only makes our lives more frenzied. I bet they will use it for is nth level automatic day-trading… manipulate/get a jump on the markets!

    @Kevin Moore, you wrapped that up very well.

  • @ TVT

    Thanks for having the temerity to pose the question.

    As with all writing, it’s best to know your audience. So to whom do you imagine you’re posing this question?

    I can’t imagine you were addressing all the young parents with dependents in their care, nor were you addressing those who wouldn’t qualify as being ‘ecologically enlightened’. So, you’re posing this question to those who both have the freedom to end their lives whenever they see fit, as well as, those who might be inclined to do so as a result of our ecological destruction, yes?

    As with most troubling dilemmas, we tend to only discover a deeper seam of disturbing questions once we start digging for resolution. I believe your short essay only scratches at the surface of probably the most profound ‘soon to be’ dilemma ever to confront humanity, which I basically distill down to be: As conscientious ecological agents, are we not morally obligated to end our lives knowing the destructive impact our lives have had on the rest of life?

    Obviously, the resounding response will be no! If it wasn’t, then you most likely wouldn’t even need ask the question.

    Life is all we have, without it, we simply cease to be. And most people would rather be in a presumed state of Being, than not. End of story, what’s on the telly?

    From my POV, the question of suicide—at least where it concerns NTE—can be broken down to at least two perspectives, one being altruistic, the other a little more self-centered. The altruistic approach, which is what you’re inviting people here to consider, put yet another way is: In light of the Anthropogenic sixth mass extinction, are we not morally obligated to end our lives? Compared to the more self-centered approach: Due to the looming intractable pain and suffering which will inevitably result from NTE, isn’t suicide the most peaceful and humane way to exit this life?

    And while both are a form of self-death arising from the same observable phenomena, they are actually two entirely separate questions.

    My first reaction to your altruistic query was that it’s far too late to pretend it matters at this point. That ecologically destructive genie was let loose a long time ago, and anyone who is rationally capable of connecting those dots, now simply have a few more dots to contend with, namely, any number of positive feedback loops which simply renders the altruism within your question moot. In other words, altruistic suicide is just too little, too late; no point in attempting to arrest that which can’t be arrested.

    However, emotionally considering and physically planning for our eventual suicide in light of avoiding needless pain and suffering is a concept that NTE has just completely philosophically redefined. But, this is only true for those who have the freedom to consider it, and in our child centric/pro-growth culture, the only people who have that moralluxury are those who are still young, those who are childless and those who are old enough that they aren’t obligated to give a shit about much of anything anymore. (And of course there are always exceptions like Badlands).

    But what we as individuals never seem to get to the bottom of–no matter whom we are–is our own unfolding denial of the reality in which we imagine we are living. For example, was Guy living in denial when he was teaching? Was he in denial when he presumed to ‘walk away’? Was he in denial when he admitted he couldn’t? Is he in denial now, wishing he never had? The only thing that actually changed was Guy’s perspective.

    If we are honest with ourselves, as new information becomes apparent to us, it forces us to alter our perspectives, and the same is true with suicide and our ability to seriously consider NTE for that matter.

    Look at Mike K, yes, he imagines he’s here discussing NTE, but to those who have actually accepted it, he reads like just another spiritualist promoting his own brand of enlightened denial, and he more or less takes comfort in those at NBL who are doing the same. And even though someone like Robin Datta could be lumped into the same club, given his penchant for eastern religion, he’s not doing that at all because he also fully groks climate science, where unlike Mike K, Robin’s perspective becomes a potential useful tool for coping with NTE, instead of avoiding it.

    We can barely understand ourselves at any given point, and if enough time passes the point changes anyways, so it’s impossible to actually know anything. We can only imagine we understand something in the moment, and depending if that moment is under the influence of some gilded god, coffee, wine, hunger, weed, meditation, a lack of sleep, yoga or just a long walk our sense of self is at best, transient.

    So getting back to the question of suicide in light of NTE, it’s only a conversation in which the smallest minority is even capable of rationally discussing without all the associated emotional pitfalls. And most likely, they have probably been dealing with depression/grief for so long that they are able to logically take such a daunting proposition in stride, compared to those who haven’t. But then again, I’m only projecting.

    For most, the very thought of suicide is wholly reactionary, because as your title states it’s just ‘too hot to touch’. But exactly the same thing can be said about NTE, especially the acceptance of it. For the vast majority of humanity, the discussion of NTE and altruistic suicide is indistinguishable, because both completely undermine their transient sense of a hopeful future. Which is why those who grok the meaning of ‘hopium’ and NTE tend to be one in the same.

    And for most everyone who has come and gone from these comment threads over the years, who doesn’t quite grasp the meaning of hopium, and are still imagining they can somehow survive what is coming—even if it’s slightly longer than the rest—clearly haven’t anything more proactive to do, and are just killing time pretending to be both somewhere and someone they’re not.

    You will be as successful in sustaining a conversion about suicide in a public forum, as you would be in discussing Evolution with a gaggle of Evangelicals. Christ, you can’t even mention Darwin here without spurring the eerie of Margulisians.

    Thanks for the opportunity to chuck my two cents into the well, take care my friend.

  • @Daniel – What kind of certainty do you have about NTE? What is your definition of NTE? Are you a climate scientist? Do you have complete confidence in Dr. McPhersons ideas? Why is that? Are you aware that the scientific community of climate specialists overwhelmingly disagrees with Guy’s ideas? You need not answer any of my questions. I just wondered why you thought my uncertainty in regard to the specifics of NTE was somehow incorrect. I have often expressed that I think human extinction is a very real possibility and may occur as a result of our activities. I also think that no one is wise enough or prophetic enough to come very close to a date for such an event. Remember, one of the fundamental principles of science is consensual validation by a community of peers. We do not have that with regard to NTE. You are betting on a long shot horse in this race from a scientific point of view. That horse may win – I hope not, but it is possible, but that also may not come to pass.

    There is nothing personal in my comments, Daniel. We happen to entertain different perspectives, but I am comfortable with that. I am not attempting to persuade you of anything, but only responding to your comment about me to clarify where I am coming from. I respect your views, even if I disagree to some extent. Lets be friends, it would be silly to dislike someone because they disagree about NTE. It can only cloud this important issue if we let emotions guide our exchanges.

    Daniel, I think some have come to feel here that due to my interest in subjects that some scientists are reluctant to investigate, or feel have no reality or validity, that I am anti-science. Actually I am a big supporter of science from an early age and have spent a lot of my time studying it. I intended to go into science when I was young. I still devote some time to keep up with developments unfolding in science, especially cosmology and quantum physics. Because of my love of real science, I am disturbed by any misuses of that designation which are not up to it’s high standards. Of course as a layman, I cannot have the same degree of surety as experts in any area, but I do my best to stick with what the leaders in various fields consider reasonable theories. However I don’t think anyone could fairly place me in the category of anti-evolutionists, or climate change deniers, etc.

  • ‘you are downright stupid & asinine’

    gerald, i think u’re too tactful to speak bluntly. (lol)

    ‘Nothing makes sense, our existence is abomination’

    in my darkest moments (quite frequent, nowadays), i think/feel similarly, pat. as i’ve said before, i know it’s at best cold consolation, but u’re not entirely alone in this zeitgeist.

    ‘If you are not angry, confused, and deeply hurt – then you are not in touch with reality.’

    don’t forget fearful and despairing, mike k.

    ‘Perhaps you advocate following the behavior of the leaders of civilization, or is it that you want only environmentally aware bloggers here to commit suicide?’

    i don’t wish for anyone to commit suicide. had second thoughts of publishing this essay that were conveyed to guy… he went ahead with it anyway. it simply expresses some very troubling views, that i suppose can easily be interpreted as advocating suicide. since i’m not prepared (yet) to go that route myself, perhaps i should have simply kept the thoughts to myself… doomers can’t help but have morbid thoughts… now i’m rambing, maybe driving spezio to apoplexy (hey, gerald: chill out!)

    another reason why perhaps i shouldn’t post essays is because i often don’t keep up with reading all the comments posted to this blog, even when they may be in response to my writing, as in this case. i’ve just spent the past hour or so finally trying to catch up to these comments, having read somewhat fewer than 1/2 of them, only responding to a few thus far, while appreciating several others. i noticed, while scrolling down the comments, the most recent one from daniel, so before i move on to other business this evening, i wanted to read his and respond:

    ‘As conscientious ecological agents, are we not morally obligated to end our lives knowing the destructive impact our lives have had on the rest of life? ‘

    that sums up my message better, more concisely, than i did, daniel.

    ‘My first reaction to your altruistic query was that it’s far too late to pretend it matters at this point.’

    aw, but to retain a bit of sanity, i think i must at times think and try to live as if how i live matters, keeping in mind that maybe it actually does. knowing what i/(we?!) know, suicide must be considered an option, a potential remedy, for what ails our world (us?!). (sigh)

    ‘altruistic suicide is just too little, too late; no point in attempting to arrest that which can’t be arrested’

    this is the rationalization is support of not committing altruistic suicide i mentioned in my essay. since it’s so easy to accept as true, it’s quite effective at suicide prevention, allowing one/(me) to go on with life with only very, very minimal guilt.

    absurd being that i am, i feel more guilty now about not being more conscientious about reading all comments and taking the time to reply to the many worthy of a response, than i do about being an infintessimally small part of the vast problem that is rendering our planet unlivable for most species relatively soon. thanks, daniel, and all the rest of u doomers, for a little commiseration… perhaps later tonight, more likely tomorrow, i’ll catch up on the rest of the comments, and respond more then.

  • “As conscientious ecological agents, are we not morally obligated to end our lives knowing the destructive impact our lives have had on the rest of life?”

    As long as one perceives oneself to be an agent, one’s attitudes and actions will be shaped by that perception.

    When one clearly groks that there is no “I”; that agency rests with the meat robot (the body-mind complex); and that the Self is as Void and black as the night sky and non-Being, (even though beyond a certain altitude there is unperceived sunlight everywhere), then one also realises that one is free from all the actions and their consequences that appertain to the meat robot.

    Closing a window does not turn off the sunshine. Most persons do not perceive a difference. Hence the hullabaloo.

  • With the population still increasing by 200 thousand each day, there would have to be a spectacularly well organised,ongoing suicide effort to make any difference. At the point we are at now,with the changes coming,famines,wars and pandemics will be the ways the exponential population curve starts to peak and trend down.

  • In case everyone here hasn’t seen this…


  • Here is some evidence we are entering altered states of climate from near Afraidia.

    ‘Cyclone Raquel forms as earliest big storm recorded off Australia’s north-east’



    “Tropical Cyclone Raquel has formed in the south-west Pacific near the Solomon Islands, triggering the earliest cyclone warning on record issued for the Queensland zone….

    The official cyclone season runs from November 1-April 30. Any cyclone after May or before October is considered unusual.

    The Queensland region has recorded a June event – Cyclone Ida, back in late May and early June of 1972 – and there was also a July cyclone off the west coast of Australia in 1996.

    Mr Casey said the storm was carrying winds of about 130km/h, and since it comes in the second half of the year, will become the earliest recorded in any season for the zone.

    While the storm is forecast to remain far from the Queensland coast, it is “certainly not good news for the Solomon Islands”, Mr Casey said.

    “We’ve also heard some reports of pretty strong winds in Papua New Guinea,” he said. “It’s affecting quite a wide area.”

    Also of note is that a typhoon – as such storms are described in the north-west Pacific basin – is also taking shape to the north of Cyclone Raquel.

    “There’s almost an identical system forming on the other side of the equator,” Mr Casey said. “It’s sort of a pigeon pair of cyclones – so it’s an interesting scenario we’ve got at the moment.”….

    The previous mid-year event off north-eastern Australia – 1972’s Cyclone Ida – came prior to a powerful El Nino event forming later that year. ”

    OK, seems like its game on for El Nino.

  • Just trying this for size here at NBL….


    If it doesn’t work visually my apologies.


  • Some more pieces of the jigsaw.

  • Daniel,

    Your comments are always very insightful, and you have an aptitude for making people coming back to the subject of this blog. I would second this part of your comment in particular:

    “If we are honest with ourselves, as new information becomes apparent to us, it forces us to alter our perspectives, and the same is true with suicide and our ability to seriously consider NTE for that matter.

    Look at Mike K, yes, he imagines he’s here discussing NTE, but to those who have actually accepted it, he reads like just another spiritualist promoting his own brand of enlightened denial, and he more or less takes comfort in those at NBL who are doing the same. And even though someone like Robin Datta could be lumped into the same club, given his penchant for eastern religion, he’s not doing that at all because he also fully groks climate science, where unlike Mike K, Robin’s perspective becomes a potential useful tool for coping with NTE, instead of avoiding it.

    We can barely understand ourselves at any given point, and if enough time passes the point changes anyways, so it’s impossible to actually know anything. We can only imagine we understand something in the moment, and depending if that moment is under the influence of some gilded god, coffee, wine, hunger, weed, meditation, a lack of sleep, yoga or just a long walk our sense of self is at best, transient.”

    The first essay I read here on NBL, when I found the site, was one of yours. It resonated with me immidiately and really impressed me. You did then what you still do: you confront people with the things that are deemed unacceptable in our culture. You do this well, and you mean it, I could feel immediately that this is you Daniel, not just talk, a real person, not just an online persona. You struck me straight away as the opposite of a BSer.

    Lidia is like that too (IMO).

    Mike K,

    You always come across as kind and caring but yes, like Daniel, and I, like you would like to be “friends” with everybody.
    However, I get the impression that you avoid/obscure the one thing this blog intends to address: NTE. Please note that I say NTE not NTHE because the human element is secondary. In order to really “grok the meaning”, a person must contemplate this over and over again: we are ending life as we know it, the life that requires Holocene conditions which are disappearing fast. This is what science tell us, ad you state that you get that. But getting that means connecting constantly, as things develop, and this is the reason why this blog exists (IMO).
    There are plenty of blogs out there which cater for all the degrees of hopium in the world.

    Yes, we talk about everything here, material and spiritual, our personal experiences (Kirk’s bird is a very worthwhile example, thanks Kirk)and rightly so, but we should always keep in mind that this is just spending time on the “beach of doom”. We all contribute thoughts, insights, experience and stories tending the fire and preparing some “food for thought” on this beach. It was ulvfugl, I think, who came up with this metaphor, a very good one IMO. Nonetheless, all this talk shouldn’t obscure the real reason most of us come here, and Daniel reminds us of that in his comments, he’s good at that.

    Meanwhile, in our real lives, we try and live a “life of excellence”.

    No hopium but a life of excellence, a bit of a Zen paradox, and maybe the most important thing to meditate on for all who are that way inclined. Once you manage to do that, acceptance of NTE is relatively easy. It was for me…just my two cents.

  • kevin: this may help illustrate the thinking down there


    Wednesday, 1 July 2015
    New Zealand – Life in the Brave New World


    the Leading Edge,
    1 July, 2015

    Yesterday the NZ media featured coverage of a new proposal that has been put forward by two “senior” academics from the University of Otago, who would like to see all young New Zealand females temporarily sterilised with long-acting chemical contraceptive implants.
    In their ideal vision for the future of New Zealand young people, these academics would like temporary sterilisation to be the default policy that young girls would have to deliberately be opted out of if they didn’t want their new and still-developing fertility to be chemically shut down for months or years at a time.
    No, this is not the plot of some dystopian novel or film, this really is a policy that a couple of NZ academics apparently now seriously consider to be a good idea. [read the rest if interested]

    Meanwhile, up north:

    Thawing Permafrost — Changing Planet

  • Bad edit!

    it should be “come back”. Silly old woman that I am.

  • I was able to make the bird more comfortable, I hope. It died before I came home from work. I feel good about ‘rescuing’ it from the torment of the ants and flies. However, he/she was never able to respond to water.

    It’s said that birds are actually dinosaurs left over from the fifth great extinction. It looks like people are going to finally finish them off.

    Your support is greatly appreciated. Would it have been easier to simply not care? I don’t think so. I believe that caring is one thing that truly carries ones consciousness to a higher level.

  • .
    By Laura Zuckerman

    SALMON, Idaho (Reuters) – A long-standing refugee welcoming center in conservative Idaho has found itself at the center of a campaign by adversaries seeking to force it closed, citing fears that the immigrants it hosts could include Islamist extremists.

    The backlash comes amid an uptick in anti-Islamic protests and advertising campaigns in the United States, including a high profile May rally outside an Arizona mosque that saw more than 200 protesters, some armed, berate Islam and its Prophet Mohammad.

    Looking forward to war, famine, and pestilence.

    Just sitting on this runaway train, staring out the window, with a cat on my lap.

    The Voluntary Extinction Movement says:
    “…thou shalt not procreate.”

    The Church of Euthanasia says:
    “Save the planet, kill yourself.”

  • Aaaah, “The Church of Euthanasia” says:

    “Save the planet, kill yourself.”

    … btw, how many members are there in that church? Can’t be that many… 😎

  • pat Says:
    July 1st, 2015 at 7:42 am

    Looking forward to war, famine, and pestilence.

    Just sitting on this runaway train, staring out the window, with a cat on my lap.

    The Voluntary Extinction Movement says:
    “…thou shalt not procreate.”

    The Church of Euthanasia says:
    “Save the planet, kill yourself.”
    It is looking forward to you too (The Private Empire’s Social Media Hit Squads).


  • @Dredd

    Thanks a lot for the information, bro! 😎

  • The Church of Euthanasia (COE), which is based in Somerville, Massachusetts, and whose website is maintained by the Dutch Journalist Karin Spaink describes themselves as follows:

    An organization that advocates radical action to control the global population.

    The mandate for radical action to control world population is based on the words of “an alien intelligence” called The Being [a demon], who spoke to Chris Korda in a dream with the message: “our planet’s ecosystem is failing.” When Chris awoke, the demon’s words were on his tongue: “Save the Planet – Kill Yourself.”…


  • You are welcome Curious3.

  • Uhm, the webpage I pointed to is really not my style, I am not into “Nephilims, Aliens, Alienabductions”, Billy Graham and that kinda stuff in any way for shure, harr harr… but the info about Chris Korda and his somewhat strange dream is real nonetheless, one can find infos and statements of him on the net easily. Man, we live in a strange world 🙂

  • In fact, I get sick about Billy Graham and shit, aaargh, I shouldn’t have pointed to that page, I don’t like that page in any way.

    Here is the o- tone:

    Rev. Chris Korda founded the Church of Euthanasia in 1992 after awaking from a dream in which an alien intelligence known as The Being warned Chris about the planet’s failing ecosystem, and the denial of this terror by our leaders. The Being asked why the human species believes these lies. Chris woke up quietly chanting the Church’s slogan, “Save the Planet–Kill Yourself.” The Church eventually became tax exempt under the law, as an educational foundation.


  • Mike K,

    You simply don’t accept NTE, your questions to me make that abundantly clear. You of course have every right to accept it or not, but where it becomes problematic/annoying for some of us, is continuing to choose to write on the only blog dedicated to said acceptance. But why you can’t find more proactive ways of spending you limited time in actually helping usher in the sea change you still believe to be ‘possible’ is something only you can answer. In the meantime, please be mindful that your supposed contrarian POV, just so happens to be nearly identical to the status-quo.

  • The question is:

    What comes after NTE? What comes after Death?

    Nothing? A black hole? Maybe not even that? Then there is no need to lament, because that would mean that nobody would be suffering in any way anymore and nobody would be missing anything anymore. No pain anymore, no need to breathe anymore, no more hunger anymore, no thirst, no deseases, no aging, no dying, no anger, no nothing anymore. Ok, also no joy anymore- but nobody would miss any joy, because there’d be nobody around who’d miss any joy anymore, nobody to miss anything anymore at all, when there is nothing after NTE, just the great Nothing after Death. Doesn’t sound that bad, does it?


    What if it goes on after NTE, after Death in some way, in any way? What, if what we call “ a Thing” and what we call a “No- Thing” is maybe even the same in some strange way? 😎

  • @Pat: “Nothing makes sense, our existence is abomination”

    Thomas Ligotti’s wrote a entire book riffing on this precise theme –“The Conspiracy Against the Human Race”. It’s essential doomer reading.


  • @mike k

    The Blues is the Medicine, the Medicine is the Blues 😎

  • ‘Man, we live in a strange world :-)’

    that’s why i like to call it surreality.

    thanks for the last link provided related to the church of euthanasia. reading about chris korda’s positions on issues, i found myself agreeing with virtually all of them, although i lack the sense of security or courage to go gonzo public with such views, as chris has done, or tried to do. i tried sending him an email by clicking on a link at the bottom of the page that supposedly allowed one to get in touch with the church of euthanasia, but it didn’t work. i wanted to tell chris he should check this blog (nbl) out. that he had some fans here, and would fit in. oh well. it’s kind of surprising i think that (s)he hasn’t already discovered it. (btw, mr./ms. korda comes from quite an interesting and accomplished family. his father was a big shot publisher and author of some note, and his great aunt by marriage, merle oberon, was a huge movie star 75 years ago…)

    i’m just a 1/4 way through the book i’m currently reading that might be worth sharing here, considering it’s about a topic that’s likely to play an increasing role in our lives as time passes: post traumatic stress syndrome, or ptsd. thus far, it’s been a fairly engrossing read.


  • Chris Korda is not a fan.

    Quote from Fractal Planet:

    Chris Korda 06/09/2015 at 2:22 pm

    I don’t consider Guy McPherson a reliable source, for a host of reasons. Basically he’s what Marxists might have called “a deviation of the left”. He behaves similarly to a denier, but with the opposite sign. He belongs to the “collapsnik” or “collapsitarian” posse, which also includes Dmitri Orlov and James Howard Kunstler. My issue with this posse is that regardless of whether civilization does or doesn’t collapse any time soon, they’re delusional about their own ability to survive it. All of them have gotten (relatively) rich by peddling a cocktail of doom and false hope to ordinary people who lack sufficient critical thinking skills to spot the hustle. They’re basically selling a type of neoliberalism–survival of the ruthless and self-aggrandizing–which goes a long way towards explaining their success, particularly in America. I wrote about this recently for an interview in “Planet Ivy”:

    “The whole enchilada is at risk: decent housing, cafes, indoor plumbing, schools, hospitals, art galleries, the internet, a decent way of life that doesn’t involve cowering in caves. Failure is a very real possibility. If we succeed it will be by cooperating on a vast scale, and exhibiting altruism not just towards friends and family but towards funny-looking people we don’t like, and towards future generations and non-humans. Individual survivalism absolutely won’t work. Collapsniks like Dmitry Orlov and Guy McPherson are dead wrong. Their business model is persuading people to prepare for a zombie movie. Buy some land far north (and their books of course), learn to farm and sew, stock up on canned food and ammunition, and you’ll be OK. They want collapse to happen, because they think they can survive it and be the noble savages that purify the human race. It’s total rubbish, because loss of civil society favors organized criminals, not intellectuals. If humanity loses control globally, Orlov and McPherson will be toast, along with anyone else with a shred of decency. If you want a model of that future, look at failed states: Sudan, Gaza, Iraq, Cambodia, Afghanistan, even the former Soviet Union. When it’s every man for himself, the sociopaths win. They’ll roll onto McPherson’s farm, rape the women, kill everyone, take whatever they want, and burn the place to the ground. It should sound familiar because it’s what passed for foreign policy for most of human history. Before civilization, people were bandits and pirates, controlled by bloodthirsty psychopaths. The Greek epic poems are pirate stories depicting the glorious pillage of hapless neighbors. Collaspniks romanticize collapse because they’ve never been pirates, and probably don’t even have contact with criminals–sensibly enough since it’s an easy way to wind up dead or worse.”

    Disclaimer: Having devoted a huge chunk of my adult life to science and engineering, I am of course biased towards prolonging civilization, without which my fields of study would be frustrating at best. I find knowledge work deeply rewarding and have no intention of giving it up. Mama didn’t raise me to be an agriculturalist! If the internet goes down, I’ll be first in line for the suicide machine, and they can pry my debit card out of my cold, dead fingers.

    PS: This blog has apparently attracted a cadre of die-hard McPherson shills. If it were up to me I would ban them since debating them is so unrewarding.

  • Chris Korda is clueless. And he libeled me with his ignorant, asinine comment. What a surprise, considering where the comment was posted: Johnson’s Den of Lies.

  • Man, we live in a strange world 😎

  • @Virgin Terry

    … reading about chris korda’s positions on issues, i found myself agreeing with virtually all of them…

    Com on, Kordas main position, his message is that he had a dream of a “demon/alien” who adviced him to commit SUICIDE. Is to commit suicide any new message at all? I mean, we are heading to NTE (if McPherson and some others are right) because of SUICIDAL ecocrimes, suicidal politics, suicidal consumerism, suicidal egotism, because of sick, suicidal ignorance, suicidal greed and suicidal hatred… And now Korda says: “Well, I had a dream of a demon/alien who adviced to commit suicide, so this is my message: Commit suicide!”.

    Sorry, I just call this advice sick, really sick. Don’t forget, you are talking to a person who’s mother, father and many real good friends commited suicide.

    Kordas message is just the final stadium of a decadent, suicidal society that is already heading towards suicide anyway, so I can’t get anything out of Kordas message at all.

  • WICH healthy person would ever listen to the advice of a DEMON?!

    Man, what a strange world we are living in 😎

  • “Curiouser and curiouser!” Cried Alice

    I know how you are feeling Curious; since I slid down the rabbit hole, to land kerplop on this strange website beach, I have experienced many wondrous things here that rival the acid trips of old. Sometimes I can see Pat sitting quietly on the runaway train with the Cheshire Cat sitting in her lap, sporting a silly grin like Alfred E. Neuman, a .375 magnum on the empty seat next to her in easy reach….and I can’t decide whether Rene Magritte or Salvador Dali should be commissioned to paint this intriguing tableau? Slapping myself upside the head I have to realize that I am definitely not in Kansas anymore.

  • I am corresponding with a mental health professional now about curing depression. I am currently proving to him that I am totally bonkers – so I should be able to talk to his clients right where they are at. Interestingly, it took almost no time to convince him I was bona fide crackers. As far as being fit to counsel his clients – not so much…..

  • Beautiful Robin. I love the Upanishads. It’s like nectar to my soul.
    I know – neti neti not this not that. No soul, no self – only that…

    A poem: I visualize a Zen Sensei in full black regalia. He slowly intones each verse with deep sonorous authority, striking the floor with his long staff forcefully for emphasis. Then he waits for it to sink in before the next pronouncement.

    No separation!

    No connection!

    Only This…

    Not even this!

  • Thanks for posting the article Jeff. In this whole lengthy article there was only this apologetic sentence about population:
    “Unpopular though it is to say, we must also have fewer children, or else our species will grow itself into a catastrophe.” Unpopular to say!? That is the whole reason we are lucky to have even one sentence about the number one factor that could save our stupid asses. Full disclosure: my wife and I made a decision 40 years ago based on ecologic concerns not to reproduce. That decision still holds. A while ago I spent 2 or 3 years contributing on an e-mail list of 30 or 40 demographers and other interested folks. Paul Chefurka was a prominent contributor, who was working out his thermodynamics based theories relating to our possible extinction.

    I like analysis by extremes to make people see what they don’t want to see or acknowledge. What if there were only ten thousand humans on our planet today. (You can imagine a catastrophic plague or whatever if you want. Or you can just take ‘em out by mental fiat – this is a thought experiment, it doesn’t deal with nuclear meltdowns or whatever – it just wants to make a simple limited point. What would be the impact of these numbers on carbon or other pollution, other living populations (extinction rates, etc.). The answer should be obvious, all the factors trending to extinction would be enormously reduced by just reducing this one factor: human population numbers. Can any of the insane the sky’s the limit reproductionists deny this? I won’t bet on that because these delusional idiots have always come up with the most bizarre
    (un)reasonings to alibi there everybody fuck more mania.

    That people are unwilling to grok this simple fact of how we can take the pressure off ourselves and nature by simply limiting our indulgence in reproductive sex has been one of the most basic reasons for my thinking we are surely doomed. If people refuse to see this, you might as well stop talking to them about anything – they hopelessly have their collective heads up their inumerable asses, and are not about to take them out – ergo we are all cooked!

  • mike k,

    I discovered on that email list that demographers can be a just as difficult to talk to regarding big-picture population issues and drivers as any layman. Maybe worse, because they are so embedded in the minutiae they can’t see the forest past the particular tree they’re tending.

    It was that discussion that precipitated my decision to stop worrying about population growth, because the only thing that will reduce our numbers in external forces. The same goes for the growth in human activity in general. We’re out of time, and as far as I can tell we never really had the ability to change things just by force of will or reason. The idea that we could has been one of our deepest self-delusions.

    So I asked myself, why get all sweaty over something we could never have fixed in the first place? Time for another beer – one of the good ones, while they’re still around…

  • Johnson is like Palin – why don’t they just dry up and blow away? Who gives a rat’s ass what either or both of them say? They’re so full of shit their eyes and hair are brown.

    mike – if your thinking is “bonkers” then i’m there too.

    Truth shines like a bright light in the darkness for me. People with discernment can smell bullshit when they hear it or see it – even the scientific stuff, following some basic research. Guy’s message (the connecting the dots part) IS MEASURABLE – it’s based on the latest science out there and changes to keep up.

    Scott Johnson just makes shit up as he goes along with nothing but his say-so, like that other blow-hard Dave Cohen (Mr. Know-it-the-fuck all), to back it up. In Dave’s case, he disparaged Guy’s reputation (like Cohen’s opinion means anything) and scoffed at the idea of a 50-gigaton methane eruption, get this, because some Koch-funded “scientist” “MODELED the data” and stated that it was highly unlikely.
    Shakova et al OUT THERE IN THE FIELD indicate with their research that continued warming will lead inevitably to a burst like that – in fact that “it’s highly likely at any time.”

    i won’t visit their sites and this is the last time i’m going to even talk about them – like Palin, i don’t want to waste my time on bullshit.

  • For those doughty enough to risk reading the Archdruid JMG’s blog this week, he is beginning a series examining the reality or lack of it of the commonly held notions of a mechanical material Universe which is imagined to be like a very large and complicated machine with meat-robot gadgets and whatnot predictably colliding and missing each other in a supposedly ineluctable dance of certainty until the whole show runs out of usable energy gradients and comes to permanent rest. AKA the clockwork Universe beloved of horologists.

    Beware the Druid – he hath spells that could charm the rivets out of a supposedly invulnerable deterministic tank. Having garlic and a rood, plus a magnum pistol loaded with silver bullets is recommended when approaching such a strange entity….


    Paul – I’m pretty much on the same page as you. Changing a human’s mind is like moving a mountain – of shit.

  • I forget my Curious friend, did you read Bubba’s piece Death is a Perfect Insult? If so, do you know something Adi Da missed?

    On a different note – notebook of unusual experiences: Earlier today I was typing and noticed one of my numerous typos while I was in the midst of typing a long sentence, so I decided to quickly correct it, but I must have hit a wrong key, and my text disappeared. When I hit another key to try and get the text back – it came back but now the sentence was typed out completed with the exact words I had in mind! I’ve had some pretty strange stuff happen before, so I just thought ‘maybe something is reading my mind’ then I thought ‘what if everything that is going to happen in my future has already happened?’ and my life is just the gradual revelation of a script that has already been written?


  • “The Asana of Science — Science’s anti-Spiritual, anti-religious, anti-psychic point of view, and its Victorian, archaic materialism, and its prejudices against other kinds of knowing — all of this is insidious, not merely nonsensical, because it has such a profoundly negative effect on human beings. Many scientists who adopt this dogmatic approach act as if they were super-intelligent people with their tweedy, pipe-smoking, complicated linguistic minds. This is the archetype of intelligence, is it not? This is the way you are supposed to be if you are intelligent. Well, this archetype does not necessarily represent intelligence. It is just a pose, or asana. Real intelligence must be fiercely capable of investigating every aspect of existence, including the very process of knowledge that is called “science.”

    Adi Da

  • I think it was like a premonition. Ever have those? You feel the phone is going to ring – then it does. You feel you will meet a car round the next bend, or you are browsing in a bookstore and something guides you to a book, you open it at random and it tells you something you have been looking for, exactly. What’s doing that? Are you glimpsing a future not yet unfolded? Derrick Jensen’s book Dreams is him trying to explain things happening to him that are not explicable in the ordinary way. Is that what Adi Da meant about science ignoring a lot of stuff that is real? Are there answers there that could save us from our ordinary reality which is really the particular selection of windows we have chosen, mostly unconsciously to look through, out of, and onto what landscapes or dimensions or inner worlds? Just asking. I’m curious, I want to know more than what is offered on the standard menu….