Edge of Extinction: Climate-Change Deniers

Seeking to connect with folks in San Francisco (or nearby) to bring Guy to the Bay Area. Please contact amyvegan@gmail.com

Also seeking vegan folks to brainstorm the creation of 100% vegan urban community in or near Portland, Oregon along the light rail line.

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To support my forthcoming tour in the Pacific Northwest of the United States and also southwestern Canada, click the donate button below. Alternatively, click here.



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12-26 June 2015, Pacific Northwest, tentatively including the following:

12 June 2015, 7:40 a.m. – 8:00 a.m. radio interview, The Early Edition, CBC Radio One Vancouver, Vancouver, British, Columbia: 88.1 FM, 690 AM

12 June 2015, 12:00 noon – 2:00 p.m. Runaway Climate Change: Can We Stop It? A Discussion with Guy McPherson. Room 2270, SFU Harbour Centre, Vancouver, BC.

12 June 2015, 6:30 p.m. presentation and discussion, Heartwood Cafe, 317 East Broadway, Vancouver, BC

14 June 2015, 1:00 p.m. presentation and discussion, Island Savings Centre, 2687 James Street, Duncan, BC

15 June 2015, presentation and discussion at a time to be determined, Start Now Gardens, 1134 Bloomington Avenue, Bremerton, Washington

17 June 2015, 5:30 p.m. presentation and discussion, The Royal Room, 5000 Rainier Avenue South, Seattle, Washington (dinner at 5:00 p.m., reservations encouraged)

18 June 2015, 7:00 p.m. presentation and discussion, Public Library, 1270 Madison Avenue North, Bainbridge Island, Washington

19 June 2015, 6:30 p.m. presentation and discussion, King’s Books, 218 St. Helens Avenue, Tacoma, Washington

22 June 2015, 7:00 p.m. presentation and discussion, Traditions Cafe, 300 Fifth Avenue SW, Olympia, Washington

24 June 2015, 3:00 p.m. book-reading and -signing, Tsunami Books, 2585 Willamette Street, Eugene, Oregon

24 June 2015, 7:00 p.m. presentation and discussion, Unitarian Universalist Congregation, 1685 West 13th Avenue, Eugene, Oregon

25 June 2015, 6:00 p.m. presentation and discussion, Community Library, 901 C Street 98660, Vancouver, Washington

26 June 2015, presentation and discussion at a time to be arranged, Portland City Club, 901 SW Washington Street, Portland, Oregon

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Catch Nature Bats Last on the radio with Mike Sliwa and Guy McPherson. To catch us live, tune in every Tuesday at 3:00 p.m. Eastern time, or catch up in the archives here. If you prefer the iTunes version, including the option to subscribe, you can click here.

This week I am scheduled to interview Mimi German, anti-nuclear activist and artist. As usual, I’ll include a few tidbits beyond the mainstream, as well as a climate-change update.

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Please visit the DONATIONS tab. I’m open to non-monetary donations, subject only to your creativity. For example, I would appreciate your generosity with respect to frequent-flyer miles.

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McPherson’s latest book is co-authored by Carolyn Baker. Extinction Dialogs: How to Live with Death in Mind is available. Electronic copy is available here from Amazon.

Tech note, courtesy of mo flow: Random issues have been appearing with posting comments. Sometimes a “Submit Comment” click will return a 404 Page Not Found, or another error, for no apparent reason. To ensure you don’t lose a longer comment, you can right-click select all, and right-click copy, in the comment box before clicking “Submit.” If that hasn’t been done, the comment text will likely still be in the comment box when clicking the back button, or the forward button — depending on the error — on your browser.

Comments 69

  • I want you guys to cheer up

    Erkel N Merkel gonna save us

  • “It’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog.”
    ― Mark Twain

  • I can’t see any news here. Well, extinction is inevitable, in fact, Death is inevitable and it always has been. There are constructive powers in the universe and there are destructive powers also. That’s how it always has been. Nothing lives forever.

    When the oxygen producing bacteria came up about 2.3 billion years ago, some of the most significant extinction events in earth’s history happened. If that had not happened, there would be no oxygen breathing life on earth, including us. Death is the sine qua non for life, no Life without Death, they always go together. After the great extincion in the end-permium, life exploded again. Life always epxloded again after the great extinction events on earth. Wanna become acquainted with the Great Mother? Well, here she is in all her terrible beauty:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Kali_by_Raja_Ravi_Varma.jpg

    Life lives by dying, it’s an eternal spinning wheel, some call it Samsara, others call it Nirvana, nothing to gain, nothing to loose. The faster you flee Death, the sooner it will get you- well, that’s the fate of the socalled “American Dream” of eternal growth, total control and mountains of colored paper and round metal, called “money”…. bwahahaha

    .-=-=-.
    / \
    | |
    | ) ( |
    \/ .\ /. \/
    ( ^ )
    |. .|
    ||xxxxx||
    ‘-._._.-‘

  • These “leaders” are so well-dressed and civilized

    what could possibly go wrong
    they have our best interest in mind
    riiiiight

  • @mt

    Let the children play 😎

  • My spirit guide

  • Watch for his look into the camera, it goes right through you

  • The worst deniers are those who do it with their deeds:

    Every month, Occidental and Chevron directly pump 2.63 times more toxic waste water into the San Joaquin Aquifer than oil released into the Gulf during the entire BP spill. The California Division of Oil, Gas, and Geothermal Resources (DOGGR) plans to allow them to continue for another 21 months. This lawsuit brought to stop the poisoning of the San Joaquin aquifer and to remediate the damage already done to the farmland of Kern County.”

    (Lawsuit Just Filed In California). A lot of the luddites who deny with their lips because of cultural pressure would not stoop to what the deniers-by-deed have done to the people of California.

  • Are not we all “deniers”,, we are cowards who lack the courage of our convictions?

  • I still like my idea for a bumper sticker!

    EAT DENIERS FIRST

    Yes folks, if you’re looking for a little hopium, look no further than your neighbor next door…especially if they’re packing lots of steaks and chops!

  • No, Martin, I am not a denier and know of lots of people who HAVE the courage to stick to their convictions. It’s what separates losers from winners in the game of life. Sure, most people only give lip service to higher convictions. You can see them in church on any Sunday, mumbling or shouting their prayers with Satan’s cock in their mouths. But, seriously, there is little that is more personally gratifying in this life than sticking to your morally sound and honorable convictions, come hell or high water.

  • Of course Ukraine tops G-7 meeting.
    The super- rich are pulling every string for a nuclear war and winter for the Northern Hemisphere to slow down- even only for a couple of years- global warming.

  • Paul – I think I made it clear that I respect your ideas about the 2nd law and how it applies to our situation, and I am also favorable towards your recent spiritual credo. However I have my own take on the hope/no hope debate. Nothing like a dash of dissensus in the mix eh? Contrary opinions are a key element in scientific method as well as spiritual discernment and fruitful discussion.

    Lidia – I have discerned that my opinions will probably never move you one inch from what you already believe. But just for others on the blog I would like to republish a song I wrote a couple of years ago that expresses some of my feelings about “hopium.” (Karl Marx would be proud of whoever built on his dismissive phrase about religion.)

    Curious – In spite of how inevitable certain events may be, I choose not to take refuge in any spiritual state or stance which offers me total indifference to the sufferings of others, or pretends to relieve me of the need to offer my loving efforts to help prevent those sufferings, and alleviate the pain that all my relations may be feeling a best I can. Fatalism is just not my cup of tea.

    One Final Song

    Just give up hope
    And seal your doom
    You’ll surely feel
    Much better soon…

    As our daytime light grew dimmer still
    It began to slowly erode our will.
    When dark figures first appeared
    We stood and waited as they neared.

    They brought a message neat and tight:
    They announced the dying of the Light.
    And furthermore they said,

    Just give up hope
    For soon you’ll all be dead
    So seal your doom
    And you will feel
    Much better very soon

    Through fading vision we prayed
    And then we swayed
    And one by one began to do
    As they had said.

    No sooner had we signed the pledge
    Than a sulfurous rain began to fall
    And the newly baptized ones
    Went forth as they were told
    To bring others into the fold

    And soon the world was filled
    With those who swallowed the blackest pill
    And turned their backs on heaven’s will.

    Then almost all as darkness falls
    Chant together like those in thrall:

    Just give up hope
    And seal your doom
    You’ll surely feel
    Much better soon…

  • Kirk how can you not be a denier and believe in Satan? There is no Satan, only the weakness of man
    6

  • Does nature have a Satan, or does God just get drunk sometimes?

  • Martin ~ time for a chill pill on the over-posting, please. thanks. two posts per day, total, is the limit.

    Paul ~ had some more thoughts on the MPP and the questions we are talking about, over in the previous thread.

  • “Also seeking vegan folks to brainstorm the creation of 100% vegan urban community in or near Portland, Oregon along the light rail line.”

    For those who haven’t seriously thought through the logistics of veganism, here is something to ponder, and this is coming from someone who has a vegan diet 6 months out of every year and has lived in Oregon for a very long time.

    A vegan diet above the 45th parallel is only viable with the existence of long haul distribution of sub-equatorial food stuffs year round.

    Don’t want to believe it?

    Make a list of most of the items within a vegan diet, especially storable proteins and spices which makes a vegan diet palatable. Then start removing what doesn’t/can’t grow this far north and see what you’re honestly left with. Or walk into any of the numerous vegan restaurants in Portland, and try to order something not imported from far sunnier places. And then attempt to do that 365 days a year. Better yet, attempt to just source locally grown beans. In other words, there are only so many things one can do with a potato and no cooking oil.

    And then ask yourself, what’s more ecologically and ethically responsible, eating vegan, or eating local?

    But then again, considering NTE, if one is interested in being ethically motivated by their diet, they might want to think about not eating at all, because if you could give the rest of life on earth a voice, I suspect they might recommend our starvation.

  • Another form of completely insane denial that does not correspond with any observations: people who think the government is working for the benefit of the general populace and is not riddled with corruption and lies.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JT-94jysi8

  • Curious: Yes, Kali is an important part of devotional life in many parts of India. It was particularly true of East Bengal until it became East P akistan in 1947 and 20 million of people like me were evicted. That place is now called Bangladesh.

    The white gent on the ground that she is stepping on is Siva, her husband, in other contexts the force for the dissolution of the universe, but here the ground of Existence itself.

    The elephant-headed Indian god Ganesh, Is their son. Siva gave him the head transplant, according to another legend. Ganesh is shown with one broken tusk to indicate the way to realisation. It is either through “this, this” (is it: everything is it) or “not this, not this” (is it, nothing is it): only one, either one, of the two options is to be selected; the other option is broken off.

    Solitude implies the existence of another/others and a lack of connection. The One without a second has no others. Aversion to this idea comes from fear of the loss of individuality, one of the five defilements that prevent realisation.

    “No other” does not imply unfilled space or emptiness external to oneself: there is no “external” (and also no “internal”). That is why it is referred to as “purnam”, which carries the connotations of fullness, completeness, totality, infinitude, and plenitude. Individuality is considered a mirage, albeit a very convincing one. Once the river flows into the ocean, the ocean does not have a river to love, nor the river an ocean. Likewise, there is neither possibility of hope nor fear.

    “What is nirvana?”: “The end of samsara”; “What is samsara?”: “The desire for nirvana”.

  • Global Warming Is Only The Tip Of The Iceberg
    ———————————————————-
    In 25 years we will pass the ultimate tipping point for all life on earth. This is when mass extinction reaches critical mass and goes into runaway mode, which is unstoppable and irreversible once started. Global warming is only one out of six direct drivers of mass extinction. Mass extinction is the greatest threat to humanity, even more of an ultimate threat than global warming. But wait, it gets much, much worse.

    Scientific American says humanity only has 60 years of human agriculture left to us because of the rate of soil degradation, depletion and outright loss.

    Also, because we add 1 million new people to earth every 4½ days, we will have to grow more food over the next 50 years than we ever grew in all of the last 10,000 years, combined.

    To do this, we will need 12 million acres of NEW farmland every year for the next 30 years. But, we are actually losing 24 million acres of farmland every year. That’s twice the rate it needs to grow.

    On top of all this, in just 10 years from now, 66% of humanity, or roughly 4-5 billion people, will be short of fresh water, with nearly 2 billion people being severely short of fresh water. Try growing food without water and soil and see how far you get.

    In order for us to stay below 2°C, the IPCC says we will need1 billion acres of new farmland by 2100 because we will have to extract CO2 directly from the air using what they call, Bio Energy Carbon Capture & Storage. The acronym for this is BECCS. The real acronym for this is BS. One billion acres of farmland is about the size of India. That’s a lot of Farmland. Yet, we are losing soil at twice the rate we need to grow it just to be able to eat, never mind some pie in the sky carbon-negative bio energy for which the technology does not even exist.

    Get your Collapse Data Cheat Sheet here:
    http://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/311m7d/collapse_data_cheat_sheet/

  • mike k, I definitely know your thoughts about the paths I’ve been exploring. Your expressions of dissent are precious to me. Objections help me sharpen my thinking and explore what I really feel about a topic, whether it’s science, spirit or something in between. I really value “dissension in good faith” – as should we all, if we value our own growth.

    mo flow, I responded to your post on the other thread. As I said to mike k, I really value critique – it’s like peer review, it helps me expand my thinking and keeps me honest.

    I put my response up as a note on FB as well. My latest three FB notes are all on the topic of MPP: my original article on “MPP Revisited”, the clarification I wrote to you, and a test I did this morning in which I analyzed national energy consumption data to see if it correlates to apparent geopolitical prominence (yes, it seems to). The notes are all public, and I invite anyone who wishes to drop by and comment.

  • Paul ~ thanks for introducing the notion of adaptive cycles as an extension of the overall picture.

    and thanks for your extensive thoughts on all of these questions. really appreciated!

  • martin, i loved the video link of the flying eagle’s view in some awesome mountain scenery. thanks for that.

    kevin, looking forward to checking out your video link to the conclusions drawn from 9/11, a little later.

    for those of u who are amerikan and haven’t totally sworn off of politics, i’ve just learned of a potential green party presidential candidate who i think u may find worthy of support. a very brief bio. of him is provided at the link, from which u can access other relevant info. as well, including how to get in touch with darryl cherney: http://www.darrylcherney.com/bio.htm

  • “The notes are all public, and I invite anyone who wishes to drop by and comment.”

    I don’t do facebook, so they ain’t public to me.

  • I’m sorry guys, i’ve sunk into a real bad low

  • Everything I’ve ever cared about is being lost

  • “Could we have avoided this catastrophe?”

    I was just asked that question on another blog. Along with, “When could we have solved the problem if we had done the right things? What if the USA elected Hillary now, and then re-elected her in 2020; or if we got a Republican president now and Elizabeth Warren in 2020? And suppose as well that there was a dramatic overhaul of the world’s energy economy. Would that avert the kind of ‘game over’ scenario you talk about?”

    I’ve always said that there is no point afflicting the comfortable at this stage, and I would only tell people if they asked. Well, probably against my better judgement, I answered.

    **************
    I have (quite reluctantly) come to the conclusion that it has always been too late to have prevented a catastrophe. I base this on the convergence of several factors.

    The first is the hard-wired human behaviour that is mediated by our brain structure: our dopamine-driven reward seeking behaviours; and the limbic emotional wiring that precludes most long-range abstract threat responses but responds very strongly to immediate, visible threats.

    The second is our evolved psychology: primarily our deference towards and desire for social status, and our need to be accepted as part of a cohesive in-group.

    The third factor is our incredible problem-solving capability. Every time we run into a limit of some kind, we figure out a way past it, so that we can keep on growing. Whether the growth is in population, energy use, material consumption or anything else you care to name, this problem-solving ability means we are the prime cause of a positive feedback growth loop in all aspects of civilization.

    Fourth and last, none of this would be much of a problem if we had not discovered fossil fuels. The discoveries first of coal and then oil and natural gas, provided the energy base for a growth curve the likes of which the planet has never seen before. At current rates it can only be sustained for at most another few decades before the whole thing comes apart – that’s the devastation of the exponential function.

    Could we have avoided this? Sure! But only if all of the following were true:

    • Our brains did not reward us for seeking out novelty;

    • We evolved to fear the lion across the valley more than the lion behind that next bush;

    • We evolved not as social animals like chimps or wolves, but as leaderless “natural anarchists” – say more like flocks of pigeons;

    • We were uninterested in solving complex problems, were content to simply live in the landscape we found ourselves in, and not interested in improving anything; and

    • There were no fossil fuels on Earth.

    Given that none of those is true, the catastrophe we have entered was unavoidable from the git-go. It might have turned out differently in the details, or perhaps might have happened later in the life of our species if things had gone a bit differently, but this whole clusterfuck has been bred in the bone, so to speak.

    Hillary vs. Warren will not make a whit of difference to the global outcome. A few different people might make it through the coming bottleneck, as would happen for every decision that goes one way instead of another. But the big picture won’t change. It has already been painted.

    I’m sorry. I really am sorry. But that’s where I stand. It’s a shitty worldview, and it took me a long time to come to terms with it emotionally, though I’ve been intellectually convinced of its general correctness since about 2007. It’s why my life has now re-focused on the smaller joys I find around me – my home, my small family, the bits of nature that are left in my area, and the fascination of learning for its own sake.

    For the sake of your own sanity, please do not believe me.
    ************

    Think I was too blunt?

  • Martin:
    Just got home from work and it is bitchin’ hot here. Thanks Martin for that interlude of snow-capped peaks and an eagle’s brow.
    “I am the eagle I live in high country in rocky cathedrals that reach to the sky…” (John Denver)
    “They tried to tear the mountains down to bring in a couple more, more people, more scars upon the land.”

  • Daniel,

    Yes, yes, yes! There’s nothing more to say.

  • @ the virgin terry –
    …”for those of u who are amerikan and haven’t totally sworn off of politics, i’ve just learned of a potential green party presidential candidate who i think u may find worthy of support. a very brief bio. of him is provided at the link, from which u can access other relevant info. as well, including how to get in touch with darryl cherney: http://www.darrylcherney.com/bio.htm

    If I could vote for potential Green party candidate Jill Stein
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jill_Stein
    and know that my vote would be actually counted, then I would vote. Plus she has an arrest record due to environmental protests on her resumé, a ‘must’ in my book !
    But so does Darryl, so I would happily vote for either. Darryl has a great sense of humor too. In a perfect world they could share the ticket!

  • @mike k

    In spite of how inevitable certain events may be, I choose not to take refuge in any spiritual state or stance which offers me total indifference to the sufferings of others, or pretends to relieve me of the need to offer my loving efforts to help prevent those sufferings, and alleviate the pain that all my relations may be feeling a best I can. Fatalism is just not my cup of tea.

    I never voted for any fatalism, did I? I said that Death is inevitable, yes, and nobody can deny that, can you? No, you can’t. But does that mean to flee into fatalism? Absolutely a big fat NO. If fatalism were my conclusion, then I’d just join the game of money making, consumerism etc, but I don’t. In fact I reduce my consumption as far as I can, because I care about my freedom, I care about the environment, I care about the victims of the western consumer empire, I care about my very own responsibility as much as you do. Less is more, that’s my conclusion.

    Western civilization sees Death as the worst enemy, because it’s the ultimate antithesis of eternal growth and that’s the cause of the misery western culture has done to the planet, has done to humankind. So I intended to say that Death teaches to let loose, to let go, to get free, but not to fall into fatalism.

    Let’s have our cup of tea together today, brother:

    When Dr. McPherson says that extinction is inevitable, well, then I just accept it. But “extinction” is completely ABSTRACT, because the ultimate essence of extinction is that nobody will be around to recognize it when it happened, right? The ultimate essence of your Death, of my Death, of our Death is that we will never experience it. The distinction of Life and Death only exists in our imagination, in our phantasie, in our rational, dividing part of our brain. The dividing, distinctive map in our brains is a coordinate system (Tonal), it divides the world into time and space, here and there, me and others, life and death, seed and tree etc ect ect. But this coordinate system is only a map, not the terrain, not the landscape. That map is useful for travelling, but it’s a mess to confuse the map with the landscape, the territory, yes, it’s a real mess to confuse the menu card with the meal- bon appétit 🙂

    Want to know what happens when we die? We will just go exactly to the place where we go all night, when we sleep, when we dream, that’s the realm of what we call “Death” (Nagual). We, the plants, the animals, nature, everything is the Dream of Mother Earth, the great Web of Maya.

    Accepting the inevitable while doing what is necessary- that’s freedom without fear.

    I am with you. Much respect and love to you, brother.

    @Martin

    Mate, I highly appreciate you spirit guides, may the force always be with you 😎

    @Robin Datta

    Thanks very much for sharing your insights about Maa Kali! Bengal/Bangladesh live up!

    Yes, Kali is the Great Mother, the Divine Feminine and Her roots go back to the Palaeolithic, her names are many, Kali, Maya, Gaia, Cybele, Astarte, Hera, Demeter, Maria ect- or simply MAMA:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_goddess

    http://www.adishakti.org/_/divine_feminine_the_great_mother.htm

    We should learn from and listen to the Great Mother, we should listen to our elder brothers what they have to tell us about the Web of the Great Mother Earth:


    La Ciudad Perdida (The Lost City) | From the Heart of the World – The Elder Brother’s Warning

  • I was arrested once “Charged with possesion of a mace with intent to endanger life”

  • it was a fucking conker

  • There are deniers. And then there are minimizers, such as Paolo Bacigalupi., author of the Water Knife, a new sic-fi dystopia book, who was interviewed on KPFA’s Up Front program this morning, has a munchkin voice like host Brian Edwards-Tiekert, one of those crusading against the “apocalypsism” which is what’s supposedly being pushed by the likes of Guy. Bacigalupi contended that there are simple solutions to the climate crisis such as a carbon tax and “more rational policies.” Just what the yuppie “leftist” listeners wanna hear. You can have ecotopia and keep your high consumption lifestyle too, maintained by “alternatives” and “rational” government policies. I see such thinking as a bigger problem than the outright deniers. That, and the self-indulgence-self-infatuation brigade.

  • VOTING DOES NOTHING! WHAT A WASTE OF TIME! GET OVER IT, FOOL HOPE-EEEES!

  • Curious ~

    We, the plants, the animals, nature, everything is the Dream of Mother Earth, the great Web of Maya.

    minor detail: this is also where we generally are right now, on Earth, whether “awake,” sleeping, or dreaming.

    usually.

    sometimes the “sleeping-waking-dream of now” is penetrated by a Crack in the Cosmic Egg, and one gets a glimpse of “something else.”

    that flow of the “something else,” felt on its edges, is what I was referring to with Christ Consciousness.

    the experience of moving further into that particular flow is another process. depending on a whole bunch of things, it is an experience that goes further than a “typical” dream.

    however, as Robin is fond of pointing out, as long as “it” is, in any way, an “experience of I and not I” then it isn’t full realization. it isn’t fully awake, one could say.

    that fully awake realization exists completely on the other side of the coin.

    on this side of the coin, whether here, and over there in “the afterlife,” etc, we have such things as: conscious awareness, with all kinds of levels of wakefulness, excitement, boredom, agitation, zillions of other feelings, and then we have dreaming sleep, deep sleep; and in the afterlife, we have ultimately peaceful bliss, roaringly fierce ecstasy… and much much more.

    the other side of the coin is nothing like any of these things. it is the eternal inside and Source of all of these things above, and the Source of everything else, and also Void. it is the Being of Brahman: “the ultimate reality underlying all phenomena.”


    In Hinduism, Brahman (/ˈbrɑːmən/; Sanskrit: ब्रह्मन् brahman) is “the unchanging reality amidst and beyond the world”,[1] which “cannot be exactly defined”.[2] It has been described in Sanskrit as Sat-cit-ānanda (being-consciousness-bliss)[3] and as the highest reality.

    Brahman

    the key idea is the “experience of Being” can only come in two possible flavors: Brahman, and anything else.

    as I have said before, anyone here on Earth talking about “IT” is always talking about it from some level of delusion ~ the “anything else.” nothing wrong with that, but it needs to be understood. it is simply impossible to be here and be there at the same time. this would apply to the highest kind of Buddha Being here, or any other being that may be here, or experienced here.

    this truth is behind the fact that even though Buddha, Jesus and hundreds of other “realized beings” have been here, we are still here.

    if the Brahman Being was ever “here” in Totality, then this Universe would simply be gone from our experience, and “we” would all now be IT, as One together, on the other side, rather than here debating “things in the Universe,” including whether NTHE was inevitable, or that there were and are other possibilities.

    as long as the Universe exists, there can only be doorways, crossing from one side of the coin, to the other. all “realized beings” that we have known are pointing to such doorways.

  • Robin – “It is either through “this, this” (is it: everything is it) or “not this, not this” (is it, nothing is it): only one, either one, of the two options is to be selected; the other option is broken off.”

    For me – nothing is It, and everything is It – both are true together and false taken separately. Reality refuses to cooperate in our presumed dualisms.

    Curious – Thanks for sharing a cup of tea with me. My remarks tell me how easy it is for me to misunderstand communications. That darned Tower of Babel thing again! But really that Tower which was built as a material shortcut to Heaven was thwarted to teach us there is no shortcut that does not go through the difficult task of learning to love each other, to the depth that allows us to truly understand each other. The plot of our great drama of Earthly Life demands complications to make it truly meaningful and instructive for us ignorant pilgrims.

    I learned a lot from Castaneda. His imaginative format for presenting the truths he had discerned became a barrier for some too wedded to the world of material and logical certainties, but I found it delightful and engrossing. Who ever said shamanism had to be “scientific” in a way that suits our narrow requirements? In the sweat lodge or the peyote gathering we are not there to listen to dry university lectures! And there are more things in heaven and earth than we have dreamed of to be experienced….

    Thanks for your kind and understanding response to my awkward misunderstanding of your previous comment.

    Paul C – Thanks again for your revealing exposition of your ideas and experiences. I would like to respond explaining why I still have hope for us humans having a long enough stay on this beautiful world to achieve a high degree of spiritual gnosis and being. But like the advice on how to eat an elephant – one bite at a time, I will to do so in several small bite size installments.

    Precious Things In My Hope Chest

    #1 – Ignorance. Like most anyone who would pursue the quest to know everything that really matters, I reached the point years ago of realizing the more I seemed to know – the more and deeper questions arose. So in the sense of some comprehensive and final knowledge – no it will not happen. A corollary understanding was that no one who has ever lived has arrived at such knowledge, and further that it is an open question whether such perfect knowledge exists in this Universe or any other dimension beyond, or in any knower however supremely intelligent. (Maybe later in rummaging through my Hope Chest, I will tell a little story about the Supreme Brahmin that helps explain why I have that last mentioned belief.)

    So it turns out that my ignorance of ultimate things, whatever they might be, gives them a space and possibility of existing. My having several transpersonal experiences that realities do exist that I had previously given less than zero percent chance of existing tells me by extrapolation – you never know – it turns out the impossible is possible! Who woulda thought… So my ignorance turns out to be a window on the unknown.

    On further contemplation I have come to understand that this whole affair that we carelessly name reality is founded in our ignorance, without which there would be no grand drama of searching for who we really are and have always been. If we already fully and deeply knew that it would be – game over! Please don’t someone pipe up now and tell me that there are or have been those among us who have that ultimate knowledge. My question to such a one would be simply – how do you know that? Of that we do not know it is better not to speak.

    Mo flo – As I was preparing to post this, I read your interesting comments, and would like to respond to them, but I am out of type/think juice for now. Later….

  • I believe the important lesson delivered by the Barbara Honegger video I linked previously is not so much that the events of 9/11 were orchestrated by members of the Bush administration but that there was a coup, and that a tiny group of maniacs -for want of a better word- were able to take over the policy direction and indeed almost the entire narrative of the USA. And the people just let it happen.

    It has become increasingly clear to me that the policies inflicted upon the general populace of most nations, and indeed most local districts, are the result of tiny minorities of self-interested maniacs using devious methods to get themselves into positions of power, and then lying to the masses. The same applies at there local level, and the district I live in is controlled by maniacs who lies to the masses on a continuous basis, and rig everything for the short term benefit of the few whist ensuring longer term catastrophe for everyone.

    Anyone who has not bothered to watch the video to the end really should take the time to do so because beyond the discussion of the events that actually happened on September 11th 2001 there is a discussion of a global truth movement, and even the suggestion that truth amounts to what some people call God.

    Although I was aware of the significance of September 11th 1973, I was not aware of the significance of September 11th 1901 until I watched the video.

    In discussion with Ursula at the Environment Centre yesterday I pointed out that the reason the ‘maniacs’ are able to keep society charging off the cliff is the unwillingness of people to become informed (as we have discussed here on NBL ad infinitum).

    There is still a great tendency to follow ‘if we do this we can avert disaster’ narratives. Indeed, there is still a great tendency to promote ‘if we do this things will be better’ narratives.

    I accuse those who promote such narratives of intellectual dishonesty and put the case of the people boarding trains to Nazi death camps as an analogy.

    Narrative one: get on the train because it is a resettlement programme and when you get off you will be provided with housing and work and will be happy ever after.

    Narrative two: do not get on the train because you will be stripped of all your possessions and either worked to death or murdered shortly after getting off the train.

    Interestingly, Barbara Honegger describes the so-called American Neocons as Nazis and makes direct links to the German Nazi movement and its teachings.

    Also, the direct links between the fascist government of Israel and the fascist government of the USA are highlighted. (NZ also has a fascist government, of course, along with Canada, Australia and the Disunited Kingdom.)

    Peak Oil even gets a mention. But not Abrupt Climate Change. As we all know, Abrupt Climate change is a consequence of the policies implemented by various maniacal governments over many decades.

    I disagree with Paul. It could have been different. The ‘problems’ were identified by the 1960s and movement in the right direction was underway. In particular, China was able to impose a one-child policy: if a similar policy had been adopted throughout the rest of the world we would not be in the mess we are in now. But the money-lenders and the corporate ‘leaders’ decided they would not allow change -profits before people or an intact planet, and effectively sabotaged society, leading to ‘meltdown of the planet’ we are now witnessing. Indeed, the likes of Thatcher promoted policies predicated ‘get the oil out of the ground and burn it a quickly as possible’.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JT-94jysi8

  • @mo flow

    Thank you again for your very inspiring words. As I said before in the former thread, I don’t claim to be a “realized beeing” in any way, in fact, I am just an underdog, I am not good with words, I took the void as my refuge and Music is my religion.

    @mike k

    It was my mistake if you understood anything not the way I intended to say it, not your mistake. I am really not good with words.

    … learning to love each other, to the depth that allows us to truly understand each other.

    Yes, yes, yes and yes again. You name it.

    Who ever said shamanism had to be “scientific” in a way that suits our narrow requirements? In the sweat lodge or the peyote gathering we are not there to listen to dry university lectures! And there are more things in heaven and earth than we have dreamed of to be experienced….

    YES, dear brother, yes again 🙂

    Who woulda thought…

    I’d like to share some Music with all of you, because Music is not interested in who is right and who is wrong, Music is just about vibrating together as it comes:


    Greg Brown- Who Woulda Thunk It

  • The glove puppet speaks. And it’s all Orwellian nonsense, of course.

    ‘Obama lambasts Putin: you’re wrecking Russia to recreate Soviet empire’

    ‘Elsewhere the G7 agreed on climate change reforms, including the phasing out of fossil fuels by the end of the century, and pledged to eradicate extreme poverty by 2050.’

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/08/g7-leaders-sanctions-russia-ukraine-conflict-obama

  • “that fully awake realization exists completely on the other side of the coin”

    No coin, no sides, no existence.

  • izzy ~ is it like the kids in the car, getting impatient for the end of the ride? “are we there yet?!”

    Curious ~ great song. “who woulda thunk it” for sure. in so many ways. yes, I totally get what you are saying. you are way more than fine with words, no prob there, and I am not implying anything.

    mike k ~

    So it turns out that my ignorance of ultimate things, whatever they might be, gives them a space and possibility of existing. My having several transpersonal experiences that realities do exist that I had previously given less than zero percent chance of existing tells me by extrapolation – you never know – it turns out the impossible is possible! Who woulda thought… So my ignorance turns out to be a window on the unknown.

    oh yes.

  • Kevin, lazy as I am, and barely able to lift my hand to the keyboard (never mind proof reading, I’m miserable at that), I have to respond out of appreciation for what appears a very fine video lesson on 911. I was only able to view the first 27 minutes of the new video last night. But, I want to try to do an hour tonight.

    Being a 911 Truther, and seeing the American public’s disgraceful response to the exceptionally powerful data laid out before them by highly qualified experts, it made it easy for me to accept that most of us will deny climate change to the bitter end. I can tell by their smuggy smiles as they greet me in the narthex, that most civilized people are only waiting to be poll axed.

    Anyway, thank you, thank you, thank you! You are a real gentleman, that is plain to see.

    @Martin. I hope and pray that you’re OK, my friend. In my experience, depression is pure hell when you are caught up. I can only say that whenever I emerge from a bout, I’m always the better man for it. I hope that is your experience, too. Sincerely.

  • What will you find behind the door that is one door away from Heaven? […] If your heart is closed, then you will find behind that door nothing to light your way. But if your heart is open, you will find behind that door people who, like you, are searching, and you will find the right door together with them. None of us can ever save himself; we are the instruments of one another’s salvation, and only by the hope that we give to others do we lift ourselves out of the darkness into light.

    Dean Koontz

  • Hi there, all you stupid shits that are following this as I type. You may shut down this site for awhile. You may even shut down the entire internet to protect your cowardly world views and creepy fears. But one thing you’ll never stop is the true freedom that shines in the hearts of people that know how to love.

    So, that’s for you, shit-for-brains! I feel sorry for you!

    Hmmmmm, should I post this? I have another post for tonight. Then I’ll go watch the video about how you skuts betrayed your country and helped Bush kill all those office workers and cleaning ladies and firemen. You murdering fucks! I hate you!

  • Thanks for posting, after all, Kirk Hamilton. I couldn’t have said it better myself. And don’t forget.. it wasn’t only those poor souls in the towers (and crashed planes) that were killed, but the ensuing tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of soldiers and Iraqi civilians who died in vain in the on going Middle East war. I have the utmost respect for our soldiers. But I’m sorry… I have to say that I believe the men and women who have served and are serving in the Middle East are dying in vain and for the greed for oil profiteers. We have also massacred so many innocent civilians (including children) with our relentless drone bombings. Okay, I’m done venting. I’m sure I’m not the only one who thinks lives our being extinguished NEEDLESSLY. But I”ll leave it at that. Shame on you Dick Cheney! So much blood is on your hands.

  • Lets not forget 2-3 days after 9-11 “The air is safe to breath”

  • kevin moore Says:
    June 8th, 2015 at 1:36 pm

    “I believe the important lesson delivered by the Barbara Honegger video I linked previously is not so much that the events of 9/11 were orchestrated by members of the Bush administration but that there was a coup, and that a tiny group of maniacs -for want of a better word- were able to take over the policy direction and indeed almost the entire narrative of the USA. And the people just let it happen.

    It has become increasingly clear to me that the policies inflicted upon the general populace of most nations, and indeed most local districts, are the result of tiny minorities of self-interested maniacs using devious methods to get themselves into positions of power, and then lying to the masses. The same applies at there local level, and the district I live in is controlled by maniacs who lies to the masses on a continuous basis, and rig everything for the short term benefit of the few whist ensuring longer term catastrophe for everyone……. ”

    YES, YES, YES,….. I think people who still hope that the ruling elite will make good choices and save us just don’t understand that the members of the elite are psychopaths and sociopaths, determined to continue their ways even if it kills the planet.

    “I disagree with Paul. It could have been different. The ‘problems’ were identified by the 1960s and movement in the right direction was underway. In particular, China was able to impose a one-child policy: if a similar policy had been adopted throughout the rest of the world we would not be in the mess we are in now. But the money-lenders and the corporate ‘leaders’ decided they would not allow change -profits before people or an intact planet, and effectively sabotaged society, leading to ‘meltdown of the planet’ we are now witnessing. Indeed, the likes of Thatcher promoted policies predicated ‘get the oil out of the ground and burn it a quickly as possible’.”

    I care little for China’s capitalist elite and its policies, which are brutally authoritarian. But i do agree that things could have moved in different directions. A deliberate counterinsurgency was launched in the early ’70s to eliminate the opposition movement and try to ensure something like “the Sixties” could never happen again. A good account of that in “The Cancer Stage of Capitalism” by John McMurtry, circa 1999, he has since become a member of the 9/11 truth movement. (a professor at Guelf University in Canada).

  • “but this whole clusterfuck has been bred in the bone”
    Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám
    Translator: Edward Fitzgerald
    “LIII.
    With Earth’s first Clay They did the last Man’s knead,
    And then of the Last Harvest sow’d the Seed:
    Yea, the first Morning of Creation wrote
    What the Last Dawn of Reckoning shall read.”

    “Want to know what happens when we die?”

    For the realised, it is like what happens to the space in an empty clay pot (pot=body/mind complex) when the pot breaks.

    “VOTING DOES NOTHING!”

    It lends the voter’s sanction to legitimise the coercive force and violence by the state against non-violent non-compliers.

    “on this side of the coin, we have such things as: … zillions of other feelings, … and much much more.”

    A toothache is not forgotten when one goes about one’s activities. The other side of the coin is not to be forgotten.

    ““that fully awake realization exists completely on the other side of the coin”
    No coin, no sides, no existence.” B-)

    “both are true together and false taken separately…Reality refuses to cooperate in our presumed dualisms.”

    “both” is a dualism, an obstacle to realisation. Reality allows no carry-on baggage.

    “the more I seemed to know – the more and deeper questions arose.”

    That’s the quagmire of samsara.

    “So in the sense of some comprehensive and final knowledge – no it will not happen.”

    Because the triad of knower-knowing-known persists. Tradition has it that Shiva’s trident collapses the triad into the One.

    “What will you find behind the door that is one door away from Heaven?”

    Doesn’t matter. What matters is what’s on THIS side of the door: the perceiver of the door.

    “None of us can ever save himself”

    Each person has to travel a path for oneself. No one can travel a path on behalf of another. And there are as many paths up the mountain as there are travellers to its one peak.

  • There is no Kali “like” anything. Kali is Kali and not Hera or Juno or anyone else. This is why the most comprehensive tool on assault and destruction on the internet today is an OS called Kali Linux. Would recommend to anyone who has a desire to educate themselves intensively on networks. Kali the Destroyer.

    I believe it could have always have been different. Finding oil in Pennsylvania did not cause anything. Oil is neutral. It is how it is used that is the issue. Europe just drew up the map to invade, enslave and destroy the entire continent of africa. This was made exponentially possible by the introduction of oil and carbon. And so we didn’t just see the invasion of Africa, but it’s complete and utter obliteration and annihilation as a location or possible center for human community and culture. Such is the power of extra energy.

    Without the English enclosure movement, the invasion of Scotland and Wales, the enslavement of Ireland (spare me the trite prevarication “colonized”), the disposession of the entire lower classes, forcing them more or less at gunpoint to flee for their lives to America or Australia. And or the fact that the 5 anglo countries were militarily invaded and genocided and presto, now their are OURS. Not to mention all the gulf monarchies and “countries” from Kuwait to Iraq to Saudi to UAE and Dubai. All British constructions, including the very notion of a country, or nation itself. This is just the shimmering surface. The very roots of the “economy” (which functions more as a religion than a financial arrangement or, household management as the Greeks implied) come right out of British slavery, patriarchy, relentless identifying of use value, and total all encompassing commodificaton of sacred, timeless objects and concepts.

    I have to think that anyone who believes that all humans are to blame just has not been out and about much. You need to see the strategies of people who to operate and survive on the receiving end of these imperial programs. 1. It’s a war. 2. The war never stops. 3. The fallout is entirely one sided, twisting, mutating exclusively traumatizing the poorest and most defenseless. 4. The fallout is the most finely tuned and the most comprehensive visitation of violence and co-ercion on the most vulnerable.

    To whit. People in upcountry Lao don’t have an obsession with getting a car, driving around, getting a slave job and keeping all your so-called scratch in a bank. What madness! Sane, grounded people really have no interest in this program. I know you probably never met them, but they are -People-.

    The fact that there might be ONE individual who reject the party line puts the ALL thesis on shaky grounds. And I have met hella people who proudly prefer to act like upcountry Lao. Just nowhere near the critical mass necessary to thread the needle. Even so, if we all quit tomorrow and changed our name to Somchai of Pakse, we’d still have to all go extinct to pay for the obscene orgy the west – primarily of the British and the Anglos.

    And if you are inclined to just say no way, I’d highly recommend Eric Williams’ book Capitalism and Slavery to get an idea of just how barbaric, corrupt and apocalyptic the entire top to bottom spectrum of European society had become and then oil was discovered. Always rationalized as the-bad-old-days, to my mind – esp now – Ain’t a dam thing changed.

  • Hey, how are y’all feelin’?

    http://fukushima-diary.com/2015/06/still-960000bq-of-cs-134137-and-2336000000bq-of-noble-gas-discharged-from-reactors-to-the-air-every-single-hour/

    Still 960,000Bq Cs-134/137 and 2,336,000,000Bq noble gas discharged from reactors to the air every single hour

    On 5/25/2015, Tepco reported still 960,000 Bq / hour of Cesium-134 and 137 is assumed to be discharged from Reactor 1 -4 to the air this April.

    This is 2.7 times much as their provisional figure published in the end of April.

    Tepco states the difference is caused by the change of calculation method. It strongly suggests the entire historical discharged volume of Cs-134/137 has been underestimated since 311 however they did not disclose the recalculated discharged volume before April of 2014.

    Comparing to May of 2014, the discharged volume of Cs-134/137 increased to 180% this April. Tepco however states this is lower than 10% of the set point of “discharge control”, and they haven’t made any explanation on this increase.

    Especially in Reactor 3, the discharged volume increased 78 times much as May. 2014. Also, 95,000 Bq / hour of Cs-134/137 is discharged from Reactor 4 building though it does not contain nuclear fuel.

    Regarding noble gas (such as Kr-85), PCV (Primary Containment Vessel) gas control system detected 2,336,000,000 Bq of gas discharged from Reactor 1-3 every hour this April. Tepco states noble gas passes by as radioactive cloud to cause only external exposure so the exposure dose caused by the discharged noble gas should be significantly small.

    [So they’ve been lying all along, and now they want you to believe this last statement?!]

  • Sometimes, when contemplating my navel, I notice belly button lint.

    DMT is a chemical that provides for intense hallucinations of brief duration.
    It is not recommended to take without the benefit of Shamanic oversight.

    For me, spirituality has always been something I think people confuse with hormones. I always thought people get so damn horny, they think they “see God.” I think that is the crack in the cosmic egg.

    The light at the end of the tunnel is life itself, not after-life. I will believe that right up to the day I die. And on that day, being human, I will turn to believe in life after death. I’m sure I won’t be able to help it.

    The luxury of contemplating these things is something the young won’t enjoy as they struggle for the luxury of just staying alive.

  • Jeff S, thanks for the Paolo Bacigalupi heads up.
    Neal Stephenson’s new book is hopelessly hopeful, where our moon blows up and he details our migration into low earth orbit. This prompted Elizabeth Kolbert to mock him in an article she wrote about the hazards of low-orbital living. She’s fucking hilarious, and one of the few journalists I like. I love the way she kicked Naomi Klein’s butt sending Klein into a hissy fit.

    http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/dec/04/can-climate-change-cure-capitalism/
    http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/12/03/ethics-climate-hope

    P.S. – Does anyone know how much energy Tim Garrett says a dollar is worth?

  • Curious – yes, the Music!
    In the beginning was … not the ‘word’ … but the Sound! Sound as the organizing force of matter. I posted this awhile back, but here it is again for you.
    If the embed feature doesn’t work (vimeo) check it out at

    CYMATICS: Science Vs. Music – Nigel Stanford from Nigel Stanford on Vimeo.

  • Jeff S and Kevin,

    Yes, yes, yes

    Your arguments put it well, you keep things grounded, just show your passion and don’t rant.

    “A deliberate counterinsurgency was launched in the early ’70s to eliminate the opposition movement and try to ensure something like “the Sixties” could never happen again.”

    That seems quite obvious to me, or should to anybody old enough who’s lived though this time with awareness. I did.
    Radical feminism was derailed and undermined for the same reasons and the same end.
    And boy, have they been successful!

    Wester, you keep things grounded too, thanks.

    You all show a glimpse of the “real” humans you are. Thank you for that.

  • I’ve posted a guest essay, courtesy of WoodWose. It’s here.

  • Some may not have heard of the infamous denier hit unit Shill Team Six.

  • moving over here to post as much as I want to! woOt!

    Still, Martin, Curious, mike k ~ you guys so totally rock.

    Bodhi Paul ~ totally understood. looking forward to hearing and learning more from you, always.

  • dreams of color, dreams of treasure ~ only the fittest dreams will survive.

  • the dreams that never sleep…

  • My 2 cents about NBL new posting rule.

    When using old article for overposts – it seemed to work – wasn’t used that much before and was used mostly used to continue discussions.

    When we have one or two people who feel the need to post repeatedly then it may be well to consider the forum. The forum is for unlimited posts on any topic — but even in the forum, as soon as the preview page filled with one or two names day after day – soon everyone else wandered away.

    Now the blog comment preview will fill up with one name (eventually) and will be useless as a comment preview when folks check for new posts. This will force folks to open the article and scroll to comments end to check for new comments 🙁

    Unlimited posting should be restricted to the forum.

  • @mo flow

    … you guys so totally rock.

    Ahem, for my part, it’s only your beautiful face reflecting in my poor mirror o^_^o


  • Bob S ~

    Now the blog comment preview will fill up with one name (eventually) and will be useless as a comment preview when folks check for new posts. This will force folks to open the article and scroll to comments end to check for new comments

    very good point. I am looking into the settings now, to see if I can extend the number of preview comments up to 12, instead of 5. overall, I think the overflow into previous threads idea can work, but I have similar concerns that you do, as far as it becoming completely dominated by one or even a few posters. let’s see what happens, and if things do get out of balance, or not…

    but the comment preview thingy is important. I use it, too.

  • @ mo flow

    “Still, Martin, Curious, mike k ~ you guys so totally rock.”

    Thanks mo flow!
    Can’t say how much I appreciate your comment as far as my part is concerned.

    @ Mike K / mo flow

    Mike K’s comment above, to which mo flow said “Oh yes”, is pure emotional intelligence:

    “mike k ~

    So it turns out that my ignorance of ultimate things, whatever they might be, gives them a space and possibility of existing. My having several transpersonal experiences that realities do exist that I had previously given less than zero percent chance of existing tells me by extrapolation – you never know – it turns out the impossible is possible! Who woulda thought… So my ignorance turns out to be a window on the unknown.

    oh yes.”

    I bow down to such pure logic, which to me is the logic of the heart, willing to surrender to greater love. Thank you. Such intelligence is rare.

    @ Curious

    “@mo flow

    ” … you guys so totally rock.”

    Ahem, for my part, it’s only your beautiful face reflecting in my poor mirror o^_^o”

    Yes, I’m very willing to thank mirrors. Thank you

  • Bob S ~

    comment count in preview thingy is now 12. thanks for your feedback on this.

    also in the pipeline:

    – improving mobile functionality. there are several things on the agenda with this one.

    – migrating the site to a new account, to help prevent things like the recent outage.

    – site redesign.