Edge of Extinction: Disruption of Supply Chain

I was interviewed in a radio studio 17 April 2015. A 3.5-minute snippet can be found here. Scroll down to the fourth story and click the yellow triangle directly beneath my name.

Comments 46

  • “If the thunder don’t get ya then the lightnin’ will.” Grateful Dead lyric

    MERS virus spreading across Asia, South Korea fails to contain outbreak


    Guy mentions this in some of his early presentations:

    The deadly combination of heat and humidity


  • Narcissistic Zombies
    Many times I do not wholeheartedly agree with Guy, but on this “living in the now” business is something I wholeheartedly disagree with Guy about.
    Living in the now might work for those with no means, but if you got it, use it. Move to where there is a lot of water, Start a food prep program. The most common mistakes for preppers is over-doing it on food and shelter. The most important thing is to prepare you mind for the fact that it will all get worse. There will be no hope for your children, all you can do is prepare to mitigate suffering. All living in the now will do is set you up for failure. I am 57 years old and prepped since I was 17. I fell off the prep wagon a few times, but everyone knows its coming. Doom may be better late than never, but you won’t be. Wallowing in the diarrhetic morass of grief is self indulgent, nihilistic narcissism for the pre-dead. It is not for the living.

  • Too dehydrated to go searching for food?

    Too overweight/obese to walk more than 100 metres.

    There was an excellent UK documentary on this aspect around 8 years ago. A group of British fatties were taken to Africa to learn how the other half lives…. and perhaps lose some fat.

    Conclusion: fat men cant hunt. Indeed, several quit after a few days, even when shown exactly what to do.

    It doesn’t seem to be available but this is close:

  • Woodwose:

    So you are Michael that stole Travelyan’s Corn so the young might see the morn.

    A Tribute to Woodwose:

    You are a talented person. Thank you for your resignation from empire.

  • @Mike K
    “(quote not found)”

    Recently, a few threads ago, but I could not find, you said something that stuck with me about the only way to be of any help is sharing your experience. I found those words inspiring and let them find their way to a proper soil inside. They’ve helped a lot.

    Mike, if you find the sentence I’m referring to, please post it. It’s an essay in itself.

    @Kirk Hamilton
    June 10th, 2015 at 5:54 pm and video link provided June 10th, 2015 at 5:58 pm

    You write:

    “ “There is no freedom outside of love and compassion.” I had believed that Truth in my heart all my life, but when I finally heard it spelled out for me in plain English, it was like it was burned onto my heart with a laser.”

    When bhakti yoga was mentioned… yes say the tears.

    @Robert Callaghan

    “The most common mistakes for preppers is over-doing it on food and shelter. The most important thing is to prepare you mind for the fact that it will all get worse.”

    Yeah. Yes and again.
    and as a :) aside, this might be the only thing we get to prepare! :)

    @ Woodwose

    Re: your essay “Reframing Death” in yesterday’s thread

    – Can’t quote, but there was something, a feel, in your essay that was unique. How would I say… A fresh air, a non-intellectual take on human condition, non-conceptual. As if we were walking with those people you describe, crossing a river. Sabine, I think, said you were a great story teller. Yes… you brought me there. I felt the cold stream. I saw the old man sitting on the other side. I heard the rushing water.
    I couldn’t comment because I would not have known what to say, because it was not an essay, but rather pictures, moving pictures. A travel through time? Yes, this is it… This is what I should have said. A travel through time. It needed to sink in.

    When things get so beautiful on this site I think of Guy… allowing this?… creating this…? whose guests we are?… The words do not want to come. Let them be drowned in the rushing water.

  • I dont think he’s a good man at all, think hes a coward and a deafetist

  • Much as i think of myself at the moment

  • Since this blog is over loaded with all kinds of spirits, spirituality, Jungian foo-foo, Buddha, Nietzsche, Freud, personal salvation, precious essences, profound ideologies, & endless philosophical double-talk; I offer Engels’ aphoristic words as a scientific materialist antidote.

    One does NOT have to be a true believer Marxist, especially Marx’s Hegelian nonsense, in order to respect Engels’ simple words about Marx’s scientific legacy as the the first modern scientific materialist.

    Engels is emphasizing habitat – lose habitat, & there goes spirituality, philosophy, & Nietzsche’s trip to the zoo.

    It is very simple & very humble.

    Habitat first – then religion, ideologies, & human “explanations & justifications.”

    “Just as Darwin discovered the law of development or organic nature, so Marx discovered the law of development of human history: the simple fact, hitherto concealed by an overgrowth of ideology, that mankind must first of all eat, drink, have shelter and clothing, before it can pursue politics, science, art, religion, etc.; that therefore the production of the immediate material means, and consequently the degree of economic development attained by a given people or during a given epoch, form the foundation upon which the state institutions, the legal conceptions, art, and even the ideas on religion, of the people concerned have been evolved, and in the light of which they must, therefore, be explained, instead of vice versa, as had hitherto been the case.”

    “Ideation is the mother error.”

  • Martin:

    I spent 21 years in the United States civil service, trying to convince various “desciders” to act on environmental/occupational health information that was irrefutable by any rational means. In virtually every case, the person in a position to act choose instead to do nothing, not because they didn’t understand the importance of what I was saying, but because doing nothing was the safest course for them personally.

    At some point you come to the premise that either a) I’m crazy or b) the system is broken. Well, I’m not crazy so then it’s the system; that said, why would a sane person continue to advocate for change? Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different outcome, is the very definition of crazy.

    It’s not an act of cowardice to realize your actions will make no difference, not defeatist to understand victory was never in your grasp to begin with. You do the best you can do but ultimately, you have to let go of the outcome.

  • @mike k

    The word Fire! Began the message Pascal wrote to commemorate his Experience, and was found when he died in a locket he wore under his shirt. That vision totally burned up his whole ordinary view of himself and the world.

    Yes, it’s the Fire of consciousness that set me free. One can not get free from a sick, suicidal culture without getting free from it’s hatred and decadence. This culture of hatred, greed and decadence will die soon and I won’t miss it in any way. I know, when the ignorant consumerherd realizes that everything is lost, defiled, exploited, it will commit extended suicide, it will explode in hatred. I am glad to be old and did not father any children, I don’t have anything to loose, I don’t cling to anything, not even to extinction.

    Brother, I wish you all the best, I am gone, have to fly on now, nothing to gain, nothing to loose, once and forever free.

    Salute to anybody, especially to mo flow!

    Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery; None but ourselves can free our minds.

    Bob Marley

  • Gerald,

    What you describe is the foundation of Marvin Harris’ framework of Cultural Materialism, specifically the Principle of Probabilistic Infrastructural Determism. The three-level framework cam from Marx, and the principle says that cultural influences flow preferentially up from the infrastructure (habitat, resource base, environment, available technology) to the structure and then to the infrastructure (explanatory and justifying values and beliefs). The influence flows back down that stack much more weakly, meaning that according to Harris the environment will affect one’s Buddhism much more that your Buddhism will affect the environment.

    Where belief systems come into play is in bringing the individuals into whatever kind of personal alignment they desire with the physical situation – whether that is participation, resistance or acquiescence or anything else you care to name it.


  • At 01:37 into the video Guy says: “the time to dig a well is not when you are thirsty.”

  • Is there a link to the full version of that interview part posted here somewhere Guy?

  • My comment above should read, “up from the infrastructure (habitat, resource base, environment, available technology) to the structure and then to the superstructure (explanatory and justifying values and beliefs)”

  • Yes, Paul, some weeks ago you expressed your very thorough understanding of Harris’s principle of infrastructural,determinism, & I commended you.

    Subsequently, you demonstrated even more detailed & accurate discussions of Harris & scientific materialism. You clearly did the work.

    When you went on & on about your spiritual development, I withdrew but did not criticize..

    In his final book, THEORIES OF CULTURE IN POSTMODERN TIMES, published in 1999 shortly before he died; Harris gloomily admitted that the double talking “cognitivists & mentalists” had largely won the battle.

    Behaviorism was passe, & Harris knew it.

    But before we all succumb from mentalistic ideologies, a few brief but terse quotes from TCPT;

    “Indeed, from my cultural materialist perspective, the emphasis on the proposition that ideas guide behavior, but not the reverse, is the mother error of contemporary anthropological theories.”

    “Explanations of cultural behavior that start from the premise that ideas guide behavior, but not the reverse, are doomed to being dead ends.”

    “Only when behavior is brought into the picture & rooted in material conditions can we understand the forces that compel the thinking of certain thoughts rather than others.”

    Harris was a confirmed behaviorist & routinely expressed his debt to B.F. Skinner.

    Following Skinner’s basic materialist & environmental premise, Harris rejected the rampant “appeals to mind”, and “inner causes” that purport to pass as science.

    Skinner’s classic witty phrase is iconic to scientific materialists;

    “The spontaneous generation of behavior has reached the same stage as the spontaneous generation of maggots in Pasteur’s day.”

    Skinner was making an analogy to the spontaneous generation of thought & ideas – thought & ideas that “arise ex nihilo.”

    If the “root cause” is thought & human consciousness, what then conditions the thought(s) & the all powerful all causative human consciousness?

    Philosophical Idealism/ideaism posits that thought & ideas condition behavior, but nothing conditions the “all powerful & all causative ideas.”

    These “all causative” thoughts & spontaneous consciousness(es) are totally UNcaused – completely different & separate from the rest of the material & physical world of science!

    “Science is determinism,” Skinner pleaded.

    Skinner contended;

    “The function of the inner man is to provide an explanation which will not be explained in turn. Explanation stops with him. He is not a mediator between past history & curent behavior, HE IS A CENTER FROM WHICH BEHAVIOR EMANATES. HE INITIATES, ORIGINATES & CREATES & IN SO DOING HE REMAINS, AS HE WAS FOR THE GREEKS, DIVINE. We say that he is autonomous – & so far as a science of behavior is concerned, that means miraculous.”

    Much so-called intellectualism is mentalistic woo; & tragically, it is everywhere.

  • “It’s not an act of cowardice to realize your actions will make no difference, not defeatist to understand victory was never in your grasp to begin with. You do the best you can do but ultimately, you have to let go of the outcome.”

    The realm of matter & energy in time & space follows its own course. As long as one perceives oneself as a finite being performing actions and experiencing events, the “I” apparition is bound. When the nature of the “I” is grokked, there is no finite experiener or performer, only the awareful witness.

    “rejected the rampant “appeals to mind”, and “inner causes””

    “Mind” and “inner causes” are as insentient as a rock, and follow a course in timespace like a rock.

    “Yes, it’s the Fire of consciousness that set me free.”

    The “me” that is different from consciousness is a mirage, a phantasm. Consciousness is the awareful witness, in every instance of experiencing and doing, everywhere and all the time, never subject to being bound nor to being set free.

    “If the “root cause” is thought & human consciousness”

    Thought is as insentient (ja(r)da) as a rock. Humans don’t have consciousness as windows do not produce sunlight.

    “These “all causative” thoughts & spontaneous consciousness(es) are totally UNcaused – completely different & separate from the rest of the material & physical world of science!”

    Thoughts, like all other phenomena of matter & energy in spacetime are part of chains of cause & effect. There is no “consciousness(es)”; matter & energy in spacetime is a construct of the mind that exists in awareness.

    ““Science is determinism,” Skinner pleaded.”


    Recognising the meat-robot for what it is:

    “One who is a knower of the truth, although he is engaged in seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, eating, moving, sleeping, breathing, talking, evacuating, accepting objects and blinking the eyes, realizes that all his sense-functions are interacting with the respective sense-objects. Therefore, he thinks, “I am not doing anything.””
    BG 5:8-9

  • Curious – Sad to see you going brother, your sharing has been a rare and beautiful pleasure. It is not often the chance comes to talk of what we saw with another who grasps the ultimate value of transcendent experience, with one who has known it in all it’s Divine glory and power and unfathomable lovingness. I feel that you were sent to help me go further on my Spirit Way. Like an Angel to me you have been – or did you already know that? Bless you on your way, and come back again if God wills…..

    There is no point directing this post to Gerald, since he cannot hear me, being that he is a materialist fundamentalist. He dismissed many things that I love as worthless in his post above. I don’t know why he failed to include in his list love, truth, and beauty – surely they will be in his next enumeration. Or maybe there is a small voice within him that told him not to go so far? In any case I am grateful that I will not live my remaining years praying that science and technology can bring us even more powerful things with which to destroy ourselves. Perhaps if these rationalists succeed in their mission to destroy everything truly human, and reduce our world to a desert devoid of life, by that time they will have perfected their machine intelligences to go forth and conquer the Universe. Our glorious future!?? Haven’t they done enough already…..

    Still – Is the last sentence of this quote what you are looking for?

    What will you find behind the door that is one door away from Heaven? […] If your heart is closed, then you will find behind that door nothing to light your way. But if your heart is open, you will find behind that door people who, like you, are searching, and you will find the right door together with them. None of us can ever save himself; we are the instruments of one another’s salvation, and only by the hope that we give to others do we lift ourselves out of the darkness into light.

    Dean Koontz

    Finally, this interview with Marion Woodman says much of what I would like to say on this blog better than I can:

    NR: You have said we have to overcome our addictions before we can connect to nature. Does our refusal to confront our addictions lead directly to our destruction of Mother Earth?
    MW: I think so, yes. As children many of us feel a deep connection to Her. But our culture warps our natural instincts. That warping leads to addictions. But there’s a suicidal drive in the addicted individual and in the addicted society. Our planet is coming up against the wall.
    Yet, despite all the horrors we have created, we are still doing precisely what we know will be ultimately destructive. Denial! Denial! We are still accepting a cultural value that annihilates the Earth. If we don’t change, we are going to our own extinction. This is precisely what addicts do. Addicts—in other words most of our society—pretend there’s nothing wrong. As they laugh and talk and plan, they deny their dying souls. That’s what we’re doing to the planet. We fight about things that won’t matter if we are extinct.
    NR: You mean addicts have lost touch with the instinct for survival?
    MW: That’s right. We have a consumer society where there’s no hope for a satiation point, because we’re cut off from our instinctive roots that would know when to stop eating, or drinking, or consuming, or whatever.
    NR: And what’s the result of that for the planet?
    MW: To destroy it. An addict is destroying himself. Or herself. And if we have no respect for our own matter we will certainly have no respect for the planet’s matter. We’ll just go on plundering it.
    I would suggest that when we pollute the Earth because of our various additions—when we destroy the natural unity in nature—that physical human responses, and plant and animal responses, are disturbed and in some cases destroyed.
    There was a tragic film made years ago which showed the devastation wreaked by the 1945 atomic bomb on the Pacific. Great sea turtles, instead of following their natural archetypal patterns to the sea, turned and went inland to find water. Here were these 400-year-old turtles, and the darling things had done what they had always done: they’d laid their eggs. Then they turned in the wrong direction. They turned away from the sea and they climbed the sand dune, and turned upside-down as soon as they got to the top. They tried to go over the dune but their bodies had upset and they died stranded like that. They had lost touch with the instinctive side of the correct thing to do. An addict is like that great turtle turning around to the sand dune instead of to the sea.
    NR: And as addicts we too have lost our proper orientation to the planet?
    MW: I think so. If the Earth isn’t functioning the way it was meant to, we have no guide, no compass to steer by. More than that, we’ve lost the North Pole. So it’s a double tragedy because the compass is no longer true and the North Pole is no longer there.
    NR: How do you make people understand that as long as we’re “addicted” to patriarchal materialistic values we run the risk of destroying ourselves?
    MW: I think people have to come to a place where they’re against the wall and on their knees before they turn around. If we haven’t been on our own knees in front of our own wall, to the point where we want to do something about the plain fact that we can’t get up, we won’t do anything for anybody else. Certainly we won’t do anything for a tree. Not to mention the Earth. So long as we’re trapped in our arrogance, we know nothing about compassion.
    I know from my own experience, and from my experience with my analysands, that until we’re against the wall we don’t really do anything to change. It’s terrible that we have to learn this way, but it seems that extremity is necessary to open people’s hearts. I think that it’s that striking down that opens the heart. And the opening of the heart is where the forgiveness comes in.
    NR: Is it only out of the world’s awareness of its collective pain that soul awakening will come?
    MW: Yes. I think we have to open our hearts and feel our collective wound. That’s where we learn love. Through our own suffering, our hearts are broken open in love for one another. Love in our culture is such a sentimental chocolate-syrup word. So often it means compulsive need. But love is an energy. It moves through our bodies; it moves between people, a force that holds atoms together. That’s how I understand love.
    I think that the people who are doing the soul-searching have no alternative. It is very painful, and it gets them into painful situations. But I think some people are, either by destiny or by their own nature, called to do it, and they have no alternative.
    I don’t think anybody chooses to do this work. On the other hand, I don’t really think anyone escapes either. Some people die rather than do it. Things happen to all of us. Jung tells us that what is not brought to consciousness comes to us as fate.

    NR: Do you feel that most people try to avoid the pain of consciousness—the pain of the life-death-rebirth experience—in our culture?
    MW: Yes, I do; that’s where the addiction comes in. When it comes to pain, we don’t want it; so we avoid it in any possible way we can.
    I see this culture in terms of addictions. An addict can be blind to the death wish that is killing him, or he can open his eyes and choose life. As people on this planet we can do the same thing—we can choose to live in the Garden or we can destroy it. We can either stupidly proclaim that we are all-powerful; there is no miracle out there; there is no life-force that we have to bow to. Or we can humbly acknowledge that there is an incredible mystery creating all those different life forms.
    If we believe in a divine order, then everything, everything on the Earth, is part of that divine order. We’re all little sparks of One Soul. We are “ensouled” on this planet. And once that comes through to consciousness, we understand what love is. The atoms are held together by love; love is the glue that holds it all together.
    My sense is that this chaos that we’re going through could go on for a long time yet—that maybe we’re only at the beginning of the real chaos. But when we finally come to our knees, something else will happen…We might realize that we are all part of One Soul. That we do belong. That we are all part of one cosmos. And that the life-force is in the willow, the daisy, the chickadee, in every animated thing. And that we are part of that totality, part of that love.

    Beautiful piece of sharing by Marion Woodman. I will share it with the guys at the long term treatment center where I go every morning to share my recovery process in AA. All the great authentic spiritual paths have identified addiction, denial (unconsciousness), and hubris (selfishness) as essential obstacles to living from our authentic selves. The 12 steps are only one condensed version of these eternal truths of the Way. Until large numbers of us find some version of these Paths to Truth, we will wander in darkness and flirt with our own destruction.

  • Can’t do it Mo the slow loading and response will do my head in.

  • Gerald ~ yes, life on Earth requires habitat.

    Curious ~ thank you, and take care, my brother, however your path carries you on.

    Into Destiny ~ I looked around the site, and I don’t think there is any full interview link to be found.

    Robin ~ no problem. the loophole is very easily exploited.

    mike k ~ same message as per Robin.

    44 south ~ argh! sorry to hear it. on my phone, I get decent load times and navigation/response works well, whether mobile or desktop view. you mentioned you were working with iffy reception, so that sounds like what you are still dealing with…?

  • @Mike K

    Ahh… no. But thanks for the search. I think you were referring to your own path and maybe saying that a Sufi guide, or a coach, had told you that you can only teach by sharing your experience. By “you” here, I mean anyone. And I noticed that you don’t theorize, or if you do you still connect to what you’ve gone through. Simple. Simplicity, in the christian way. Tolstoy comes to mind. Not showing yourself only under your best side, but sharing the tough stuff you went through. Well, this is how I understood it. And your long experience of, you know, sharing with “no bullshit” people shows.

    I found it helpful what you said. But please don’t search anymore. Merci, de tout coeur.

  • Dredd, the water question, so very important!

    When I saw how the people suffered for want of water after Katrina, I was determined to insure a drinkable water supply.

    There are shallow wells almost everywhere less than 25 feet deep. If you have one or know where one is, you get set up with the essential supplies to convert the system to a hand pump. The same thing can be done with deep wells. The hand pumps and fittings are cheap and easy to find.

    Like Guy says, get off your ass and DO something.

    As far as most people dying of thirst early on, I agree. But, there are a lot of tough, resourceful people who will find water easily. Then they will come looking for your food. Are you ready for that?

  • To ‘Still’ and ‘Shep’ – thank you for the kind words – much appreciated (lovely song, Shep).
    Mike k. your lengthy Marion Woodman quote is quite profound. What she says about being up against the wall is where we are now collectively.
    Quite some time ago I read the Ra material on David Wilcock’s website – one thing I recall from that (whether you accept any of it as “true” is inconsequential) is that “Ra”, when explaining ‘itself’ to the people ‘it’ had contacted said ‘it’ was an entire race of collective consciousness – a species that had fused into one being.
    If you posit that the universe is conscious, as is every planet and galaxy in it then the destiny of the human race might be to fuse all of our consciousnesses into one collective and then move out into the interstellar realm – as one group mind. (some of this is echoed in the ancient hindu texts – or in Alice A. Bailey’s Yoga Sutras of Patanjali)
    And the next thought can only be: “And what chance do we stand at this point of ever doing that.”
    Divide and conquer has been used against “us” for millennia. I am often consoled by the depth of compassion and wisdom of the ‘us’ that connect here under Guy’s benevolent “doomsterism”.

  • Do we see reality as it is?
    TED2015 · 21:50 · Filmed Mar 2015

    Cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman is trying to answer a big question: Do we experience the world as it really is … or as we need it to be? In this ever so slightly mind-blowing talk, he ponders how our minds construct reality for us.

    Trying to painstakingly rediscover for oneself what has been known for millennia…

    “fuse all of our consciousnesses into one collective”

    Like breaking an empty pot so that the space inside can fuse with the spare outside.

  • I’ve been over this business with Skinner quite a bit. It’s just my personal view that Chomsky stomped him. Hard. Real hard. I’ve been over both guys’ work and I used to be a Skinnerian, but after I went through Chomksy’s arguments step by step, I couldn’t help but switch sides. I have my reasons, and the least of these might be the fact that Skinner comes off a real cynical and not really worried at all about the effect of selling his program to boojwa elites or the Pentagon for a nice gimme. That’s what Adam Smith implied was “the general order of things”.

    Uncle Noam on the other hand looks like he has a principled, relatively humanitarian agenda, and also well-developed if not devastating critiques of Mr. Skinner which I won’t elaborate here as I am in the middle of my indentured servitude gig.

  • The 9 Biggest Unsolved Mysteries in Physics
    by Natalie Wolchover | July 03, 2012 05:13pm ET


  • When trying to understand the world, including my fellow humans; I never resort to angels, spirits, or spirituality as an explanation of anything.

    Angels, spirits, & spirituality are unfalsifiable metaphysical terms that I cannot use as a scientific basis/premise/evidence for anything.

    I do not need to resort to convoluted arguments about quantum indeterminacy, Cartesian duality, mysticism, or free will for completely rejecting angels, spirits, or spirituality on order to try to understand how the natural world works.

    I have no difficulty accusing Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Powell, etc of consciously lying in order to murder hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi people for their Israeli client.

    They are murderers pure & simple.

    I haven’t the slightest doubt that U.S. military forces turned Iraq into a rubble heap & failed state.

    I do not have the slightest doubt that planet earth is heating.

    I know what to do when I am hungry or thirsty.

    My opinion is that much of what passes as “cognitive science” is a return to ageless mysticism, mentalism, & muddled linguistic philosophy.

    We can justify anything with childish resorts to mind, spirits, & mentalism/cognitivism.

    Cognitivism makes it easy to “create one’s own reality.”

    We can create a world w/o nature with the flick of mind.

    I believe that cognitive science is the intellectual rage.

    I “understand” that the Dali Lama is supposedly a spiritual person, but I do not understand why he is more or less spiritual than anybody else because I do not know what spirituality is.

    Although the Dali Lama appears to be a very nice fellow, I always try to avoid people who advocate spirituality, metaphysics, & angels as an explanation for anything.

  • Did Donald Hoffman listen to Karl Rove, or did Karl Rove listen to Donald Hoffman?

    Whadda mystery?

    Creating your own reality is fun, even if it means murdering other people.

    Mysteries & whodunits are fun, especially for yuppies on their way up.

    Murder is fun for the murderer.

    It is a real bummer for the murdered.

    A mystified public confused about reality doesn’t know what to believe, so anything goes.

    A lying cheater’ best justification; “Hey, it’s all a game.”

  • – With new posting rules now in effect, I’m getting more and more into the habit of going back to the last thread closed – the one Mike K calls “numero two thread” – because I know it there that I’ll find various “extra” comments that would pass the 2-post limit on current (“numero uno”) thread.
    I used to do that anyway, because I always had a backlog of unread threads. But now I know that current conversations are going on at the same time on 2 threads. And as Mike K says, people might get more conversational there – which to me is a plus anyway, because so many don’t want to derail current thread and stick to short, which I appreciate, but I also appreciate rich digressions. I had overlooked looking at Woodwose’s site. But now I did. I love his “I want you poster” with an eagle. (I hope the picture will paste here, if not go to http://ashaquila.com But anyway, if it doesn’t paste, I’ll try repasting in a second post)

    Mother Earth Recruitment Posters

    “volunteer at your nearest patch of healthy soil”

    Eagle Lake (acrylic on canvas 4 ft x 4 ft or 1.22 m x 1.22 m)
    No need to say more, is there.
    Also saw too briefly Robert Callaghan’s comment header at the top of this one here thread:

    Robert Callaghan Says:
    June 11th, 2015 at 4:12 am
    Narcissistic Zombies
    – Seeing it again this morning I just laughed out loud. So short. Best marketing slogan you can dream of.
    – So yes, very willing to read your conversations on numero two thread, even if at times… Narcissistic Zombies show up!
    Love it. Have it copyrighted quick.

    Still 

  • Well, not enough of a teckkie to post it.

  • Gerald Spezio Says:
    June 11th, 2015 at 7:47 am

    “Since this blog is over loaded with all kinds of spirits, spirituality, Jungian foo-foo, Buddha, Nietzsche, Freud, personal salvation, precious essences, profound ideologies, & endless philosophical double-talk; I offer Engels’ aphoristic words as a scientific materialist antidote.

    One does NOT have to be a true believer Marxist, especially Marx’s Hegelian nonsense, in order to respect Engels’ simple words about Marx’s scientific legacy as the the first modern scientific materialist.

    Engels is emphasizing habitat – lose habitat, & there goes spirituality, philosophy, & Nietzsche’s trip to the zoo.

    It is very simple & very humble.”

    Several articles debunking both the alleged closeness of Engels and Marx, and the alleged closeness of Hegel and Marx. Engels in one figure who has done a lot to create a false, bad impression of Marx’s analysis. This site tries to liberate Marx’s legacy from all that.

  • Kirk Hamilton Says:
    June 11th, 2015 at 6:38 pm

    Dredd, the water question, so very important!


    The other side of water understanding is just as critical (Why Sea Level Rise May Be The Greatest Threat To Civilization – 4).

  • Gerald Spezio said,

    Angels, spirits, & spirituality are unfalsifiable metaphysical terms that I cannot use as a scientific basis/premise/evidence for anything.

    Technically, “material reality” is also an “unfalsifiable metaphysical term”.

    The fact that you accept the concept of a material reality and reject others is a personal metaphysical choice, based on your value system and the way you wish to operate in the world. It’s not necessarily an appropriate foundation for anyone else’s worldview.

  • Paul ~

    I would move that statement just a bit further, and remove “technically.”

    materialism is a philosophical choice, a view, a metaphysics. there isn’t any real question about that, I think. another possible metaphysical view would be that information is more fundamental than matter:

    Digital Physics

    another view is that Mind is fundamental:

    As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.
    — Max Planck, Das Wesen der Materie, 1944

    obviously, still other views exist.

    Gerald ~ just as a reminder, as you have two posts in this thread already today, any further responses today would have to go in the previous thread, otherwise they will be deleted.

    ~ mo

  • G.S. – Dali Lama

    Might be you picked a bad example. The Dali Lama invokes no angels, and usually describes himself as “a simple monk”. He has also gone on the record as saying that when traditional doctrine conflicts with the findings of science, he favors science.

  • We have all ready been through the dying time, just ask the ghostdancers

  • OK folks, it’s June 12th, so read carefully …..
    Today is Hug a Climate Scientist Day

  • moderation note to Martin: deleted. two posts max per day, in main thread. no exceptions. please post your item in previous thread, if you wish it to go up today. thank you.

    ~ mo

  • “We might realize that we are all part of One Soul”

    As long as we perceive a “we”, we ain’t.

    “That we are all part of one cosmos”

    There ain’t any “we”; besides reality extends beyond the cosmos.

    “Simplicity, in the christian way.”

    There is something simpler than the god-man dualism: non-dualism. But it ain’t quite kosher to say “you are Christ”, or, “if you meet Christ on the road, …”.

    “I do not need to resort to convoluted arguments about quantum indeterminacy, Cartesian duality, mysticism, or free will for completely rejecting angels, spirits, or spirituality on order to try to understand how the natural world works.”

    The robustness of the macro edifice of matter-energy in timespace is built of phantasmagorical building blocks at the level of Planck time and Planck length. Of course one may ignore the inconvenient.

    ” I do not know what spirituality is.”

    Visit a liqour shop. It is a property of the liquid in their bottles.

    “All knowledge is provisional and incomplete.”

    That is necessarily true with a finite knower and a finite knowing in an infinite context. Yet one can deny everything except the denier.

    A newborn human (and other species, perhaps) has to develop a concept of sentience in others, and then to perform Turing tests to decide which others are sentient.

    Sooner or later, dolls are consigned to the category of insentience, wind up dolls perhaps a little later than simpler ones. Radios and televisions perhaps even later.

    However in view of the miserable performance of adults at distinguishing computers from humans in Turing tests, there is little reason to consider one’s opinion of another’s sentience as anything other than arbitrary.

    And while the macro universe seems a robust edifice, its building blocks at or below Planck length and time are anything but.

    Moreover, all that is accessible to a human is the electrochemical states in its wetware, which are taken to represent the state of the world. This again is based on the presumption that the world reliably induces corresponding electrochemical configurations in wetware. These configurations are called “mind”: they/it are/is no more sentient than a rock.

    No one chops objects into little slivers and makes a hole in the skull and then shoves the slivers through the hole: so too, no one has any direct knowledge of any object in the world.

    Fantasies about altering parts of the universe through meditative states and “projection” are more than just fantasies since the process of karma is as operative at the level of thought as in speech and action.

    Projection (vikshepa) is one one of the two components of Maya, the creative force of the universe, the other being obscuration, shielding (vikshepa). This is also described in the Judaic tradition, where Maya is Or Ain Sof, the light of the boundless void. Shielding of the world from that light is as necessary as a projection from that light, as is accomplished through a breaking of the vessels of light and their reconstitution at a level compatible with the continued existence of the world.

    The postulation of an infinitude of other universes, both serial and parallel, is a feature of the Vedic (and Buddhist) traditions for millennia. It is therefore less interesting when each universe is like another speck of sand on the beach.

  • Lidia,

    This is long, but you might find it important, especially toward the end (55:00 mins on).

  • Just as there are limits to growth in a finite dimension, there are always limits to certainty in the cosmos. This goes all the way up and all the way down – from the mega mega to the micro micro. Certainty obtains over a range of values that corresponds to the current state of our understanding or lack of it. Certainty has more to do with what is in my mind than the world outside me. And yes, I can draw a line as in Jordan’s theorem in topology dividing an area termed inside from one termed outside, as long as I remember that there is a perspective where no such line exists. For fuller understanding we need to take various perspectives in order to better appreciate the richness of our reality. A common problem arises if we adhere to one perspective in such manner that other valid perspectives are deemed invalid. We can call that being a perspectival fundamentalist.

    Before I launch into the indissoluble relationship of purusha and prakriti, the subtle quantum and sub-quantum level and it’s more grossly expressed levels – I wake up and realize that in my sleepy just arisen state I meant to remind myself through writing about it that all this highly abstract analysis does not provide a single bowl of soup for a hungry person, nor does it do a damn thing for the problems associated with NTE that this blog is centrally concerned with! Thus does intellectual rambling make fools of all of us so prone to it.

    Which brings me to the realization that I need to formulate what I consider to be humankind’s last chance to recover from its fatal nose dive into self-destructive madness. Yes I think I have the outlines of a cure, but the problem I am still working on is how to persuade, trick, force, seduce or by some unknown means get the patient to take the medicine. Once I get this off my chest, or more specifically my heart – then I can roam in the fields of spiritual things without the nagging sensation that there is something more important that I need to attend to….. (forthcoming)

    Lidia – You need to turn your well-developed BS detector onto the traditional medical industrial complex protocol for treating cancer. The alternative of herbs, diet (intermittent calorie restriction) etc. isn’t perfect – but it beats the shit out of what you have been offered by your docs. Do some research and you will find that there is another real, effective way to approach your situation. Just saying. I aint gonna preach at you anymore. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

  • Robin – I am a Baul ecstatic in my Soul! I long to dance my way out of the dry parchments of theology into the beauty of the Beloved’s Embrace. The same Allah by many names that you look down on is my Heart’s Treasure. Yes I have that convoluted self born of countless hours of study and search – but in my Soul I only want to be free to Drown in His Love. Whatever I may have written or said or thought – my Heart was not in it. Forget all that intellectual rubbish. Throw it in the fountain or the fire as you choose – I only want at last to be free of it and swoon into the Divine Embrace. My debates with you or anyone now are ended – think what you will, I will not oppose you. Either join me in an ecstatic dance dedicated to the One I love, or go your way, and I will find others to join the dance, or I will whirl and bend and offer prayers of gratitude to that Spirit which is beyond all words and scriptures. Lailahailallah! Say Allah and let the fools prate….

    That One Who guides me within my Heart caused me to turn on the TV and experience a transcendent session with the Baul and Sufi mystics of Iran and North Africa. It took me Home – my real Home in God. No more intellectual chit-chat. I am done with that. I dedicate the rest of my life here to Love, forget about splitting quantum hairs – that chapter is over now. Thank you Robin for helping me remember my real self and it’s mission. I bless you on your way. You are a good and sincere person. I have no criticism of you or your way in my heart.

  • **Which brings me to the realization that I need to formulate what I consider to be humankind’s last chance to recover from its fatal nose dive into self-destructive madness. Yes I think I have the outlines of a cure, but the problem I am still working on is how to persuade, trick, force, seduce or by some unknown means get the patient to take the medicine.**

    Seems many have delivered the message of what is necessary for a man to recover from his “fatal nose dive into self-destructive madness.” Few are willing to make the sacrifice.

    Intellectual curiosity brings us to the promise, to the boxtop we rip open to claim our prize. Most abandon the quest here – realizing there is no *prize* no secret formula or incantation to fast track them to nirvana. Some insist they found the *prize* and can now visit nirvana at will. Others claim they have discovered *shortcuts* which allow them to achieve with little effort what in fact requires a lifetime of superhuman efforts.

    IMO, most bounce off the truth like sunlight off the ice and continue to seek answers that more resemble **EURIKA** than a lifetime of work and sacrifice.

    Just my 2 cents.

  • mike k ~

    the patient already tricked you into taking the medicine.

    we are cured. dance on.