Edge of Extinction: Predictions vs. Scenarios

I was interviewed in the studio of a community radio station the morning of 26 June 2015. The show is described and archived here.

Comments 111

  • I’ve been moving toward (two weeks from now) a big gear shift in terms of lifestyle and occupation – and moving in a new direction in terms of work/livelihood. Consequently, I have been doing a lot of reading about how people respond to stress, particularly trauma.
    Came across several interesting items today which I would like to share with you all, particularly Paul Chefurka, Bud Nye, Lidia, izzy, Bob S., Robert Callaghan, etc.




    And, no, I don’t think this is all “woo woo”. Especially when I think of my 1 year old great-niece who I will meet for the first time in two weeks in the oil, natural gas and roundup sustained prairies of Alberta.

    At the end of the Cormac McCarthy penned film The Counselor (which despite many opinions to the contrary I regard as a poetic, powerful cautionary tale about greed) Cameron Diaz’s sociopathic character (Malkina) says:

    “We of course are another matter. It is our faintness of heart that has driven us to the edge of ruin. Perhaps you won’t agree but nothing is crueler than a coward. And the slaughter to come is probably beyond our imagining.”

    The weather here is 43-46 C every day now. I am constantly amazed by how the birds still jump and fly around and fill the air with their calls all day (and into the night). I put out snacks and fill a little bowl of water twice each day. To see them come and drink – sparrows, doves and a kind of minah bird – brings a smile to my face every time. The water that comes out of the tap is hot enough to make tea – because all the water tanks in the Middle East are fiberglass and up on the roof. Still, the water is clean (desalinated) and the birds are glad of it.

    It is the stray dogs I spy from time to time roaming the sandy wastes at the edge of town that really break my heart.

    Thirst is a terrible thing.

  • Proceeding with basic definitions in our mother tongue.

    What is a scientific prediction?

    Without any linguistic subterfuge, double talk, lawyering, nuances, politics, or literary wordsmithing; a scientific theory or hypothesis must make “testable” predictions.

    If there isn’t any specific testable prediction, there is nothing to test.

    Therefore, it cannot be science.

    The scientific method is built on testing statements that are logical consequences of scientific theories or hypotheses. This is done through repeatable experiments or observational studies.

    A scientific theory which is contradicted by observations, experiments, and evidence must be rejected.

    Claims, opinions, & “scenarios” that make no testable predictions cannot considered part of science.

    If a so-called “scenario” makes testable predictions, then it is not mincing words to label it a prediction, as in science.

    If we are doing science, we can’t hide behind wordsmithing & “scenarios” to elude the mandatory commitment to testing.

    Population genius & professed practicing scientist Paul Erhlich’s clearly stated “predictions” within specified time frames about algae blooms of human populations & mass worldwide starvation(s) were falsified by subsequent events.

    The empirical test of time proved Erhlich’s predictions completely misguided & downright false.

    Erhlich was proven wrong, especially about his professed & stated solution to put sterilants into the water supplies of unsuspecting people.

    Instead of facing up to the experimentally confirmed facts, Erhlich audaciously claimed that he was “just” advancing “scenarios.”

    Erhlich’s literary dancing & wordsmithing after the hard empirical facts came in exposes his outright double talking character as much as his falsified predictions.

    We are now living every day in the midst of the greatest experimental test of the greatest scientific prediction ever made – a prediction of near term human extinction.

    Every day stronger & stronger confirmation of ongoing planetary heating tells us that we are doomed to near term extinction, & there is no way out of it.

    If strengthening El Nino plus a piddling one or two Gt methane release promptly delivers us into “ONLY A ONE/HALF DEGREE C.” increase in global temperature rise, we will know that the experimental test(s) of our ugly doom is progressing as predicted.

    Near term extinction is PREDICTED by some scientists committed to telling the truth as best as they can based on the information gathered thus far.

    If Guy is NOT making scientific predictions, I do NOT understand what he is saying.

    Much of the evidence is already in our faces, if we dare to look.

  • Global CO2 Punches Through 400 ppm With Record Setting, Accelerating Increases



    This is the highest CO2 concentration in the atmosphere in the last 800,000 years as documented by CDIAC ice core data.

    However, more recent “blue ice” sampling in the Allan Hills of Antarctica, reveals that CO2 did not exceed 300 ppm in the last 1 million years. Source: Live Science.

    Even more troubling, the rate of CO2 accumulating in the atmosphere is increasing – propelling us towards even more extreme climate impacts. According to a May 6, 2015 presentation at the Montreal AGU, we are experiencing Anthropogenic carbon release rates of increase unprecedented in the last 66 million years – throughout the Cenozoic era. Source: AGU [more]

    Thursday, June 25, 2015

    Accelerated Warming in the Arctic



    Warming in the Arctic is accelerating. On June 25, 2015, high temperatures hit North America. Temperatures as high as 30.3°C (86.54°F) were recorded where the Mackenzie River is flowing into the Arctic Ocean.

    Very warm water is also flowing from the Pacific Ocean through the Bering Strait into the Arctic Ocean. As the image below shows, the water that is flowing into the Arctic Ocean from the Pacific is much warmer than it used to be, as much as 6.1°C (10.98°F) warmer. [more]

  • There are many, many presentations/lectures by Guy on NTE on youtube & other venues. Can anybody here point me towards a video that has
    good sound and video quality, and also is also the most thorough with regards available data?

    Mucho thanks!

  • WoodRose –

    Saw my handle in the addressee’s list, so I clicked the links. If the point was that the deteriorating environment is causing psychological stress, I’m right on board. I’ve been disturbed about the whole thing for decades. If it was something else a little more subtle, maybe you could sum it up?

  • Hamlet,

    One you tube video I like is “Arctic Death Spiral and the Methane Time Bomb” found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IevqUUWD4o

    The material presented is fairly comprehensive and well done IMHO.

  • “Stress causes distress.”

    Climate change, population growth and urbanization, pollution, growing economic disparity, financial uncertainty, a growing sense of debasement and powerlessness (gotta get a gun!) It’s no wonder we’re all going nuts. Underneath it all rides a constant subliminal drumbeat of koyaanisqatsi – the sense that life is going further off-balance every hour. All of it is covered over with a thick layer of cognitive dissonance icing, as everyone pretends that things are “normal”.

  • Haydukes, I forgot about that one, Wasdell is a favorite, thanks!

    Out of all of Guy’s presentations, which one has the best video quality & content. (I can’t stand the Buckineers vid, the stupid laughter kills it for me.)

  • Paul,
    You wrote: “We’re all going nuts”… Maybe even an understatement. The only people who might be able to escape mass hysteria don’t have an address. But we have done it to ourselves, and we are still going strong on insisting to be our own worst enemy. Just try to argue with an agent or bureaucrat running his/her little show, and see if it’s the 99% or the 1% giving the most trouble. In 99.99% of cases, it’s the 99%.

    Individually, except for beheaders who don’t like heads to remain on bodies, we’re mostly ok, but it’s our collective lot that is the problem…. I.e., doing the most good for the greatest number… Sure! and I saw angels flying by my window this morning… If that is what ‘koyaanisqatsi’ is all about, we probably haven’t seen anything yet as the potential for unmitigated stupidity in our species is there, just lying in wait to be exorcized. General Push-Button would be my guess.

  • Paul C – It’s important for me to remember that my body’s stress reactions depend greatly on the contents of my mind, conscious and unconscious. A trip under the ocean in a submarine would be very scary to me, but I realize that for many others it would be a pleasurable adventure. Also my general level of reactivity to potential stressors can be gradually lowered by regular meditation. There is a lot of research confirming that. A healthy person would normally feel some anxiety concerning NTE. But most of us manage to turn our attention elsewhere, counter our fears with various consoling thinking, planning, and in various ways avoid continuous or disabling effects from this knowledge. This is not equivalent to total denial or evasion of the reality of NTE. Those who have defended themselves in that way often do so in an unconscious and automatic way. They disable themselves from taking any intelligent action based on being consciously aware of the danger unfolding around them. Those aware of the danger, but consciously moderating their emotional responses to it are in a better position to make good decisions and preparations to deal with this unfolding tragedy.

    Mark – Your recent sharing has catalyzed a wonderful ferment of ideas and processing in my mind. Thank you for that. This blessed discontent…. I will share my response in a little bit. One upside of the downside of this conversation interruptus we engage in here is that one has a chance to think more deeply before shooting one’s mouth off half-cocked and saying things more stupid than usual. Doesn’t counter my habit of stepping on my tongue entirely, but it helps….

  • Who gives a fuck what you think?

  • You talkin’ to me Martin?

  • My little corner of the world went literally overnight froma very mild

    autumn to 8 to12 inches of snow
    Lost power for four days. Very slow thaw as yet got my hopes up for forecast norwest gale Monday. Best to all with what’s coming this year.

  • Heating in the Arctic is accelerating, & such bizarre off-the-chart heating predicts rapid ice melting for the Arctic.

    “On June 25, 2015, high temperatures hit North America. Temperatures as high as 30.3°C (86.54°F) were recorded where the Mackenzie River is flowing into the Arctic Ocean.”

    The mouth of the Mackenzie River is 68.97 degrees N. latitude or about 2.64 degrees ABOVE the Arctic Circle.

    The mouth of the Mackenzie River is getting a full dose of solar photons for more than 23 hours every day.

    Whether there are free will spirits or angels at the quantum level allowing and/or explaining Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, the Mackenzie River’s heating, Steven Spielberg’s calculated & preposterous lying movies, or human hopium is not known.

    But, spirits or angels at the quantum level is not a scientific hypothesis because we can’t test for the posited spirits or angels.

    “High heat on the order of 86 degrees F. melts ice” is both a true statement & a thermodynamic law.

    The U.S. Supremes could rule that there aren’t any thermodynamic laws, if they want to.

    But the court’s “ruling” would not stop the Arctic ice from melting.

  • I spent several years teaching English to Asian students and realised what a difficult language English is to teach. In fact, English is a pig of a language because there are so many exceptions to rules and irregularities: hardly is not the opposite of softly; habitable and inhabitable mean the same thing.

    One of the exercises given to intermediate-level students was to put qualifiers into order of probability. Even amongst native English speakers there is not always consensus:

    will definitely
    will almost definitely
    is very likely to
    is likely to
    could well
    will probably
    probably won’t
    is unlikely to
    is very unlikely to
    definitely won’t

    I realised that ‘could’ is one of the worst words in the English language because it theoretically covers the probability range 0.0000000000001 to 1.0 and simply means something is possible, though in practice is usually limited to probability in the range 0.0000000001 to 0.5.

    Could can be used to imply willingness to do something. “I could help you.”

    Could can even be used to imply something will not happen. “Will you fly halfway round the world to come to my party?” “I could [but I won’t].”

    Of course organisers of lotteries and similar ‘competitions’ love the word could: ‘you could win a car’, ‘you could win a $1 million’, you could win a dream holiday’ etcetera……even though the probability of winning such a prize is usually less than one in a million.

    I rather like phrases like this one; At this point of time all the evidence indicates that…..

  • “realised what a difficult language English is to teach. In fact, English is a pig of a language because there are so many exceptions to rules and irregularities:”

    That’s because of all the “rape, pillage atd burn”: Saxons vs. Angles, Vikings vs. Anglo-Saxons, Romans, Normans, an empire where God did not trust an Englishman in the dark, and the flotsam and jetsam of that empire, as in Londonistan. Yet to me it is a completely natural language: I cannot remember a time when I did not know English – and Urdu.

  • WoodWose,

    Thanks for risking significant verbal abuse by the anti-psychology, anti-neuroscience community here by posting the three links. As observable phenomena (perhaps a good, very short definition of the word “reality”?), none of the Susan Johnson attachment theory, emotion-focused therapy, and Gottman relationship research, even begins to qualify for the label “woo-woo”—the reactive emotional opinions of the anti-psychology, anti-neuroscience contingent here notwithstanding.

    Needless to say, the articles you link to emphasize some of my motives for writing about attachment theory and an emotion-focused emphasis in ESGs. Also, needless to say, I disagree with the philosophical and psychological basis of the PsySR Letter to Congress calling for “immediate legislative actions to prevent climate change’s psychological harm”. Why? Because for years, based on evidence trends, thermodynamic considerations as discussed by systems ecologist Howard Odum, and complexity theory-based ecological principles, I have deeply believed that nothing we can or will do can significantly slow, much less stop or reverse, the ecological collapse processes well in progress for many decades. I have come to believe that we need an honest, emotion-focused approach to dealing with our powerful, emotional responses to the unfolding self-annihilation trap horrors, not ever more wishful, magical thinking and actions designed to “solve the problem” and thus, supposedly, hopefully to continue our human supremacist values and civilization for at least 100 years longer into the future.

    Directly responding to all of this, please see the following paragraphs. In my opinion, among many other things this says much about the ad hominem attacks, emotionally abusive bullying, and verbal violence that so often erupt here. Contrary to many people’s preferred beliefs here, these paragraphs ground our thinking, emotions, and consciousness firmly in our biological, animal nature, not in an alleged supernatural, “spiritual”, “consciousness” that supposedly permeates the universe and Earth’s biosphere.

    In reading Emotion-Focused Couples Therapy, The Dynamics of Emotion, Love, and Power by Leslie Greenberg and Rhonda Goldman (2008) I have come across a number of paragraphs, a total of about four pages, that I think relate importantly to many comments—and commenters—at Nature Bats Last. I have copied these paragraphs below for anyone having an interest, as well as to help me better learn the ideas. (Yes, I know: way too long for some people to read, much less to absorb.) The book covers much more, but I will try to give only what seems to me the most relevant and important information in a sequence that makes coherent sense and develops the ideas pretty well. Note at least two ways that it relates to the high probability of near term human extinction (NTHE): (1) the massive threat to many people’s sense of identity posed by NTHE, and (2) the resulting fear-anxiety and shame-powerlessness issues elicited by the prospect of human-caused NTHE plus the extinction of perhaps most, if not all, other life on Earth. (My comments in brackets [ ].)

    p. 4: “In this book, we discuss the affect regulation involved in three major motivational systems central in couples therapy—attachment, identity, and attraction. We suggest that the centrality of these relational needs in marital [and other] conflict leads to therapeutic work that emphasizes focusing on the three related sets of emotions of fear-anxiety, shame-powerlessness, and joy-love, plus promoting three associated relational response forms: nurture-comfort, empathy-validation, and warmth-liking.”

    p. 6: “In identity struggles, the central concern is whose definition of ‘self’ and ‘reality’ is right, who has the right to define what’s right, and whose agentic needs are most important. Partners [and people more generally, I think] then fight to defend the view of reality important to their identity, and they defend themselves against the humiliation of being found wrong or lacking because it makes them feel unworthy, inferior, deficient, or incompetent. Partners [people] also control, in efforts to stave off possible imagined catastrophes and feelings of loss of control. They also fight to influence decisions and courses of action in order to feel recognized, maintain status, confirm their identities, and operate by choice under their own volition rather than feeling coerced. When partners’ [people’s] identities are threatened, they are most concerned about whether they are being valued and respected and whether their influence and right to choose is recognized, and they argue passionately to try to change their partners’ view of them or what they did in order to regulate their self-esteem, maintain their identities and their sense of agency. Alternatively, couples [and friends] give up their identity needs and become fused to avoid conflict, but excitement and positive feelings are the victims.”

    p. 61: “The three motives are described in order of their evolutionary development. First came the forerunner of identity, the assertion of organisms against others to define boundaries in conflict over territory, status, and position. Next came attachment to others on whom people depended and trusted for protection from danger. Third and only more recently came attraction to others whom people recognized as subjects just like themselves and whom they liked, appreciated, and felt compassion for and to whom they wished to give of themselves. In our view, people are fundamentally relational beings. As Kohut (1984) offered, people do not grow from dependence to independence any more than they can grow to be independent of a need for oxygen or free of other biological needs. People need contact and comfort for security, and they need empathic affirmation to have confidence in who they are. Couples problems then do not arise from a conflict between people’s need connection and need for separateness, nor a struggle between dependence and independence, or intimacy and autonomy, as so often has been suggested. Rather, in our view, couples conflict [and I expect conflict more generally] is an issue of threats to attachment and threats to identity, and it is fears of annihilation and fears of abandonment that govern conflict. [Note the implications of this given the high probability of NTHE.] In intimate relationships, people protect their identities as though it is life itself. After people move on from their earliest attachments, they generally resist letting anyone again have that much power to define them and determine what they do and how they will feel and see themselves. This is so until they fall in love and form a new attachment. Then, once more, they let someone be important enough to them to influence what they do and how they see themselves.”

    p. 67: “This sense of self, according to Stern, thus includes the sense of agency, the sense of physical cohesion, the sense of continuity, the sense of affectivity, the sense of a subjective self that can achieve intersubjectivity with another, the sense of creating organization, and the sense of transmitting meaning. These senses of self develop through life, and in adolescence an identity is formed; this identity, plus its more basic substrate, needs attunement, recognition, and validation from others throughout life. Stern’s concept of ‘a need for affect attunement,’ an essential part of developing a sense of a subjective self, becomes particularly significant in marital relationships in the validation of identity. Attunement to all affect, then, is essential in the validation of identity, whereas it is only attunement to distress, separation anxiety, and needs for comfort that is essential in attachment. The invalidation of any of one’s feelings growing up as a child, or as a partner in an intimate relationship, results in a core injury to identity. People’s affects need mirroring and validation to help people develop clear and confident identities.”


    “Adults develop far greater capacities than do infants for regulating their own affective disturbances, as well as greater capacities to attain joy, excitement, and satisfaction through their own agency. Adults develop identities, the validation of which is experienced as almost as important to them as a close bond and sometimes as more important. This is witnessed by relationship ruptures that stem from fears of loss of identity, from damage to self-esteem, or from a feeling that one’s preferences are not being valued or respected. Ultimately, threats to identity can prevent adult attachment. To protect their identities, partners in conflict often hold on to attacking, controlling, or submissively yielding stances rather than risking change. ‘Stuckness,’ or impasse, often is based on preservation of the integrity of the self’s identity. Resistance to change may be based in fear sensed as ‘what will happen to who I am if I change’; hostility, ‘Don’t try to change me’; or shame, ‘If I change then how will all the times I’ve refused to in the past be viewed?’”

    pp. 68-69: “Assertion of identity is an evolutionarily developed, relational motive that derives from what observers of animal behavior have called the dominance hierarchy, referred to more popularly as the “pecking order.” Sociologists refer to position in such a hierarchy as status, and they refer to any moves to assert or improve one’s status in relation to others as the exercise of power. Observations of chimpanzees [based on genetic cladistics, two other Homo species, not a separate Pan genus] have revealed many displays of dominance and deference (de Waal, 1986, 1996). Quite typically, the leader of the group, an alpha male, asserts his power by shows of anger, bullying, and threats. The power is social. Other members of the community acknowledge it in recognizable ways, such as by the display of fear (preparing to flee, screaming) and by deference (paying homage). When signaling power, the individual making the display expects to get his own way and will use force to prevail, perhaps in a sexual matter or in obtaining some resource such as food. The other members of the community accept this entitlement. The alpha chimpanzee looks bigger than others because in his displays his hair stands on end, while the hair of those who defer to him does not stand on end. These others offer submissive greetings. They bow, sometimes make offerings such as a leaf or a stick, and sometimes give a kiss on the feet or neck.

    Animals who are not acutely aware of their rank endanger themselves, miss opportunities for acquiring resources (food, mates, allies), and could be put down vigorously by more powerful dominants for inappropriate resource seeking. Animals behave differently if they are in high-rank than low-rank positions, and they change their behavior when they change their rank. This status-related behavior is not learned but an innate complex affective, cognitive, motivational, behavioral system just like an attachment system. People, too, are primed by evolution to be concerned about social rank and identity and to compete for resources, just as they are primed to give and receive care by an evolutionarily developed attachment system (Gilbert, 2003; Gilbert & McGuire, 1998).

    Aggressive dominance, power, and control can be used as a means of maintaining one’s identity, self-esteem, or status. In both human and animal groups, aggressive dominants try to control subordinates. This is seen in extreme forms in humans such as in bullying and in violence in couples and families. In less obvious ways, humans compete for position and resources in a manner that does not involve aggression. It is not necessary to think of the need for identity, self-esteem, and status as only engendering hostility (Gilbert, 2001). The way humans compete for recognition can be aggressive, but more often involve attempts to attract others. People strive to have status, value, and position given to them, and they benefit greatly from recognition and validation. People strive to be seen as desirable lovers and friends, and as team players, by being attractive and lovable. In this context, for many people the central concern is about avoiding low rank, being controlled by others, and/or being excluded or missing opportunities. To be seen as attractive to others one must stimulate positive affect in the mind of others, not fear or fearful submission with aggression (Gilbert, 1997, 2001; Gilbert & McGuire, 1998). Partners, too, need to be valued by their mates. People in more stable and satisfying relationships see strengths in their partners that they do not see in the partners of others (Rusbult, Van Lange, Widlschut, Yovetich, & Verette, 200). People also are most like to see the best in others when they see the best in themselves (S.L. Murray, Holmes, & Griffin, 2000). Cooperation and belonging thus have become more important than dominance for survival and reproductive success (Gilbert, 1989). These skills sometimes are lacking in some marital partners who equate dominance or forced recognition of status with respect or love.

    Concerns about identity and ranking involve tracking other people’s views of one’s self and responding to potential threats to recognition of one’s identity. Gauging the reactions of others and being able to distinguish when people can trust and who truly values them is thought to be one of the more daunting evolutionary challenges humans had to solve (Tooby & Cosmides, 1990). Nonverbal communication, which often is automatic, evaluating trustworthiness, identity concerns, and behaviors, is as important in social rank, as it is in attachment. Partners in loving relationships gaze into the eyes of each other, and this is a clear signal of desire and affection, of both wanting to look at and wanting to be looked at. However, in conflict situations, dominant partners stare but submissive partners do not. For subordinates to engage in eye gaze would almost certainly increase arousal in both dominant and subordinates and increase the chances of fighting. A partner’s signal of shame will have an impact on the other’s anger. People who are in high states of shame commonly adopt submissive postures, have low eye gaze, feel inhibited, and are unable to express themselves. This is a highly defensive position, quite different from a caregiving or cooperative one, for example. A submissive, defensive position can click in even when a person consciously does not want it to. People have been primed by evolution with emotions such as embarrassment, shame, and humiliation to adopt these roles. These are the emotions that are particularly sensitive to how people see themselves through others’ eyes and come when their identities are being threatened or vulnerable feelings are being invalidated. When this type of shame occurs in intimate relationships, it cannot but lead to troubles in intimacy.

  • So, is NTHE a prediction or a scenario?

    Weekend Rebel Science Excursion – 45

    Does it depend on the meaning of “near” or on the meaning of “extinction”?

    Just sayin’ …

  • i’m not afraid of making predictions because i’m a nobody that doesn’t count or matter.

    i predict that by 2019 everyone [that’s capable of rational thought] will know that we’re on our way out and that we’ll [for all intents and purposes] be extinct as a species by 2030 – 2040.

    i sincerely hope i’m wrong (as i have my entire adult life), but as Gerald says “Every day stronger & stronger confirmation of ongoing planetary heating tells us that we are doomed to near term extinction, & there is no way out of it.”

    Another prediction is that living is going to become ever more difficult for everyone, but not at the same time or at the same rate, as time goes on, starting right now.

    These are actually my opinions, but we can cast them as predictions as see if i’m way off base [totally wrong would be GREAT], or close enough for government work.

    Best to all in the meantime.

  • Re English pronunciation,consider the following words. ‘ough’ is pronounced
    differently in each.
    cough. bough.tough. though. through.
    Paul Ehrlich did and still does put great effort into warning about the catastrophic effects of overpopulation. He deserves great respect,not ridicule on this site.

  • NTE is Science! Near is here, Term is now, And Extinction is the science of the exponentials ! CO2 off the chart Population simple math & Money don’t get me started, but I think it’s like the methane. It’s the root of all the problems Here,Now,Hockeysticks Love & Doves till infinity, Thanks to all and Great show Prof. McPherson

  • I love Guy McPherson and his band of merry persons !

  • “This sense of self… includes the sense of agency, the sense of physical cohesion, the sense of continuity, the sense of affectivity, the sense of a subjective self…”

    These are all characteristics of the unrealised person. Two and a half millennia ago (in the case of Buddhism, and several millennia prior to that in the Vedic tradition), there was a recognition of reality that will remain beyond the ken of these psychologists.

  • @mo, what happens to all those cats when the Maytag®™ repairman comes and pulls the machine away from the wall? Would they swarm and eat him, like the birds in the eponymous movie? Where does the washing machine come from? Is there a celestial Home Depot that generates washing machines for cats to get stuck behind?

    ON a more serious note.. yeah, the cat can (conceptually) “walk backward”. The cat could walk backward all the way into its mother’s uterus, dissolve its egg into sugars and minerals and proteins and exit the mother’s mouth out into the universe and into other creatures (water), into the air (nitrogen), into rocks (phosphorus). I’d love to do that.. wouldn’t bother me a bit.

    The point is, however, that there is nothing besides conjecture to indicate that the universe our persons are subject to is anything but unidirectional. Time’s Arrow and entropy point in one direction, and that’s behind the washing machine, where cats eventually will get stuck and die, and their water will evaporate and cycle into other cats and creatures until the point it gets too warm to condense, the phosphorus in the cat bones will degrade into the dust and along with the nitrogen in the blood will feed little critters and plants feasting on the corpse and breaking it down. Neither does this bother me one bit.

    But it does seem to bother most people. I’m constantly amazed at the number of those who seem to think that the world does not work in this latter way.. it seems like the majority, even on this “reality-based” forum, have unwarranted fantastical notions about the outcome of our beings. When you talk about “The One”, when some of you lionize that crazy anti-semite with the 90-something Rolls-Royces.. to me you might as well be talking about the planet Kolob or the planet Kryptonite, or Xenu our galactic overlord.

    It’s apparent that most people deeply feel a need to “continue” once their material body has ceased its life functions. They all just come up with different bizarro rationales for it, whether it is Jesus rapturing them up, traveling to the stars, becoming the god of their own planet like Mitt Romney, evolving into a cyborg, or having their head attached to a fresh body.. because they just cannot conceive of their individual cessation… I’ve always regarded it as embarrassing—deeply unseemly and lacking in dignity.


    @Bud, I had to look up “affectivity”.
    Noun; A complex and usually strong subjective response, such as love or hate.

    “the sense of a subjective self” .. how could a sense of self be anything other than subjective? The more I leave “affectivity” behind, the more peaceful I feel. I don’t know to what degree this is a function of age, a function of my own personality, and/or a function of comprehending NTE. When I was younger, I certainly had stronger love/hate feelings.

  • To pick up on what Sabine and others were saying a couple of essays ago: I’ve live in the same rural place (Bruce Peninsula, Ontario, Canada) for 40+ years, and this is the quietest spring/early summer ever in that time. Once the spring air rang loud with birdsong, almost deafening on a misty June morning. No more – it’s so quiet, a robin here, a catbird there, no meadowlarks, a few bobolinks when there used to be fields full. And you know it’s not a fluke or a ‘bad year’; it’s a new reality and will only get worse. Not yet Carson’s ‘Silent Spring’, but heading there – inexorably.

    The sun is intense. Even on cooler days (18-20 C or so) there’s a burning quality to the rays that makes you want to cover up or go inside. The sky has a pale almost bleached look, and the clouds are not full and billowy, but kind of ‘erased’ looking. The leaves of maple trees growing in thin soil or rocky places are pale and yellowish, lots of die back in the treetops – sunburn, pure and simple.

    I hate to see snakes and turtles and small mammals crushed by cars.

    Meanwhile, holiday makers roars along the backroads in loud ATVs belching exhaust. Where once there was birdsong, now there’s the scream of motors.

    And yet, and yet…the garden is full of colourful flowers, a precious few monarch and tiger swallowtail butterflies arrive beautiful as ever, bumblebees hum and stumble in the pollen rich peonies, and all the vegetables are growing well. Grief and gratitude ebb and flow…

    I miss Benjamin the Donkey.

  • Lark, Loved your words, and feelings….

  • Lidia, I really like it when someone like you calls it all into question. Seems a lot of people live in a mental goldilocks zone where it’s seemingly so easy to stand firmly on your beliefs while piping sweet generalities. When justification is taken for granted, a dose of humility can be like a lifeline.

  • The post, for me, was not about the debate re “to woo woo or not to woo woo”, it was about a recognition by psychologists that many of our neighbors are going to be dealing with ever increasing levels of shock, despair, anger and depression in the coming years. And that we (collectively) are not in any way prepared for it. (It would be nice to know that instead of ongoing militarization, our police forces were being given instruction in how to deal with trauma).
    In other words another level of the mainstream recognition of the various tsunamis on the way – an emotional/psychological tsunami? You can’t go to the Emergency room of your local hospital and say “I feel blue.”

    And most of all I was thinking about the young people and the children – who are already feeling the effects of the fear (as discussed in the article).
    I think most of the people on this site have already come to terms – at least somewhat – with what we are facing. From the posts you all offer I recognize a rich pool of human experience, empathy, resignation, sanity. I suppose in some ways we are the lucky ones – we have already been shocked into the realizations of what Guy is talking about – and have found some way to live with that and even make compassionate contributions to the discussions in which we engage.

    I read somewhere over the weekend that part of the problem “in the west” is that people are so accustomed to the infrastructure’s unfailing reliability. If you live in a Third or Second World country, you know that the phones won’t always work, there will be power outages, etc. The comfortable residents of the First World don’t experience those things and don’t anticipate them.

    T.S. Eliot again (Four Quartets: Burnt Norton)

    At the still point of the turning world. Neither flesh nor fleshless;
    Neither from nor towards; at the still point, there the dance is,
    But neither arrest nor movement. And do not call it fixity,
    Where past and future are gathered. Neither movement from nor towards,
    Neither ascent nor decline. Except for the point, the still point,
    There would be no dance, and there is only the dance.
    I can only say, there we have been: but I cannot say where.
    And I cannot say, how long, for that is to place it in time.
    The inner freedom from the practical desire,
    The release from action and suffering, release from the inner
    And the outer compulsion, yet surrounded
    By a grace of sense, a white light still and moving,
    Erhebung without motion, concentration
    Without elimination, both a new world
    And the old made explicit, understood
    In the completion of its partial ecstasy,
    The resolution of its partial horror.
    Yet the enchainment of past and future
    Woven in the weakness of the changing body,
    Protects mankind from heaven and damnation
    Which flesh cannot endure.

  • Here’s another new vocabulary word for me: “entelechy”. Someone just dropped it over at the COIC site.

    entelechy, (from Greek entelecheia), in philosophy, that which realizes or makes actual what is otherwise merely potential. The concept is intimately connected with Aristotle’s distinction between matter and form, or the potential and the actual. He analyzed each thing into the stuff or elements of which it is composed and the form which makes it what it is (see hylomorphism). The mere stuff or matter is not yet the real thing; it needs a certain form or essence or function to complete it. Matter and form, however, are never separated; they can only be distinguished. Thus, in the case of a living organism, for example, the sheer matter of the organism (viewed only as a synthesis of inorganic substances) can be distinguished from a certain form or function or inner activity, without which it would not be a living organism at all; and this “soul” or “vital function” is what Aristotle in his De anima (On the Soul) called the entelechy (or first entelechy) of the living organism. Similarly, rational activity is what makes a man to be a man and distinguishes him from a brute animal.[sic]

    Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz, a 17th-century German philosopher and mathematician, called his monads (the ultimate reality of material beings) entelechies in virtue of their inner self-determined activity. The term was revived around the turn of the 20th century by Hans Driesch, a German biologist and philosopher, in connection with his vitalistic biology to denote an internal perfecting principle which, he supposed, exists in all living organisms. [Encyclopaedia Brittanica]

    What humans do (what all life does), is “realize or make actual what is otherwise merely potential”. Which is another way of saying “breaking down the energy gradients”, is it not?

    Importantly, to “realize potential”, you have to destroy that potential in the process.

    So sad, the lack of potential we face! Plenty of energy around, to be sure, but ever-diminishing ways for us to exploit it in useful concentrated forms (pretty much exclusively current and former plants). Ourselves and our societies are going to undergo (at best) a kind of congestive heart failure.

  • Is there a measure to measure our openess, the real fullness and range of our freedom and salvation within? Yes, there is:

    The same amount we are willing and open to host and give a home to the whole world, to the whole Universe, to all beeings, all ages and places within us, the same amount is our freedom, our salvation within ourselves. Whoever enjoys such a freedom, enjoys unspeakble joy, unspeakable vastness. Such a human beeing finds his confirmation in everybody and everything, because everybody and everything lives within himself, the unspeakable vast Universe lives within himself- this is the way a human without rank nor name feels.

    Only oneself knows how far one has reached such an attainment, nobody else can know it. The One who is released, is the One who knows it.

    Where Everything Is Music

    Don’t worry about saving these songs!
    And if one of our instruments breaks,
    it doesn’t matter

    We have fallen into the place
    where everything is music

    The strumming and the flute notes
    rise into the atmosphere,
    and even if the whole world’s harp
    should burn up, there will still be
    hidden instruments playing

    So the candle flickers and goes out
    We have a piece of flint, and a spark

    This singing art is sea foam.
    The graceful movements come from a pearl
    somewhere on the ocean floor

    Poems reach up like spindrift and the edge
    of driftwood along the beach, wanting!

    They derive
    from a slow and powerful root
    that we can’t see

    Stop the words now
    Open the window in the center of your chest,
    and let the spirits fly in and out

    – Jalaluddin Rumi

    My Heart goes out to all Sisters and Brothers in Love!


  • “The cat could walk backward all the way into its mother’s uterus, dissolve its egg into sugars and minerals and proteins and exit the mother’s mouth out into the universe”

    In principle, that is entirely possible. The positron is described as an electron with a positive charge, a particle of anti-matter. However an equally valid description is a negatively (“normally”) charged electron MOVING BACKWARDS IN TIME. In that world view, an anti-matter universe would have the direction of time’s arrow reversed relative to us. Valid science, no matter how woo-woo it seems.

    “It’s apparent that most people deeply feel a need to “continue” once their material body has ceased its life functions.”

    That is last of the five defilements (kleshas) described that in the Vedic tradition, prevent realisation: the fear of an end to one’s individual existence (abhinivesha). It is also the most difficult of the defilements to overcome.

    “because they just cannot conceive of their individual cessation…”

    That will continue to be the case as long as one does not grok the “I” to be a mirage, a phantasm.

    “Even on cooler days (18-20 C or so) there’s a burning quality to the rays that makes you want to cover up or go inside.”

    I have enough melanin that that burning feeling does not occur until temperatures around 126°F (52+°C)

    “It would be nice to know that instead of ongoing militarization, our police forces were being given instruction in how to deal with trauma”

    One must get rid of the delusion that the police are here to “serve and protect” anyone other than the folks who cut their paychecks. The golden rule: he who has the gold makes the rules.

    “entelechy, (from Greek entelecheia), in philosophy, that which realizes or makes actual what is otherwise merely potential.”

    Equine ordure. Particularly with regard to invoking a soul, and in view of interdependent co-origination.

    “Only oneself knows how far one has reached such an attainment”

    If there is even the slightest trace of a sense of attainment, then one is most certainly off-track. Water does not have to attain wetness.

  • If there is even the slightest trace of a sense of attainment, then one is most certainly off-track. Water does not have to attain wetness.

    You are welcome, there’s quite a lotta room over here, so don’t hesitate to see the world with your own eyes :-)

  • I have a dream, a vision…. The Woowoo’s (Purushas) and the Hoohoo’s (Prakritis) were drawn up in battle lines, locked in a seemingly endless and inconclusive war. The Woowoo’s took refuge in their elusive immateriality, which made it difficult for their foes to strike them. On the other side the Hoohoo’s were dug in deep trenches and concrete bunkers that were almost unassailable. Between them was a no man’s land of certainties and uncertainties that both sides feared to cross – massive solid obstacles and shadowy regions of quantum question marks.

    A day came when the supposed birth date of a questionable figure known as Jesus Christ arrived. This imagined character was said to have muttered things like peace on Earth, and turn the other cheek. A crazy thought arose on both sides of the combatants – what if we pretended He was real – just for a day – and put down our weapons and celebrated together? And so they did, and sang and danced together, and drank to their amazing taste of unity and love. Thus did purusha and prakriti, spirit and matter enjoy a brief realization of their essential Unity – before retreating back to their trenches and resuming the pretense that they were really irreconcilably different….

    Curious! Never know when you might pop up – in one of your emanation bodies, to be sure, but present nevertheless. Good to see ya. Where you been? Pleiades? Farther out? Don’t tell me you’ve been here all along – we just couldn’t grok you? Glad you’re back – I needed that beautiful shot of Rumi real bad. It can get kinda dry on this doomed beach – no trees, no water you can drink, and getting hotter every day…. It is true that now and then someone brings some relief like Woodwose sharing that slice of TSE’s epic quartets, or Robin serving up an ace from the Upanishads. It ain’t all BAU around here. Still it’s good to have another purushic voice to break the sometimes deafening silence…. Welcome once again – make yoself at home homey.

  • Lark,

    Your observation about the sun’s rays being so intense even at relatively cool temperatures (18 – 20C) is exactly what I’ve been aware of here in the South of England. My sister in Germany noticed it too. So it’s most likely a worldwide phenomenon.
    And your description of the strange cloud quality. You’re so right! This is exactly what I’ve been observing, and you describe it so well.

    Here we have blessed rain today. The last time for a while for the plants to drink because we’re expecting a heatwave with temperatures over 30 C for some time (from Tuesday), and the weather forecasts are already warning “vulnerable” to be aware and take care.

    I miss Benjamin too and the woman who used to write and post an apt koan for our discussions quite regularly. She was good. I can think of here name, it’ll probably come to me later.

    These two wise ones put things into perspective in the best possible way.


    Your observation on the English “could”: that’s only obvious to most people once it’s explained, and you did that well.

    Mind you, the same applies in German where “could” is “könnte”, a word that is used in exactly the same way. I don’t know any of the other Germanic languages well enough but guess that it’s probably no different.

  • I have lived through more abuse and suffering than the average person. I have seen more abuse and suffering than the average person. When people talk about spirituality philosophy I want to puke at the stupidity and hypocrisy of it. People usually confuse hormonal imbalances with spirituality. They get so horny they “see” God.

    Right now, there are children in Yemen and Afghanistan who pray for cloudy days because they know drones don’t fly when it’s cloudy. As far as I’m concerned the Pope can stick his pointy hat up his ass. I have no use for bullshit no matter how prettily it’s dressed up.

  • Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip its been.

  • Sabine – Lark

    Several years ago I was telling my wife the same — the sun is burning hot! Not the usual warm glow or even intense warmth (beach) — this was different — the rays seemed to burn my skin — like I was too close to a fire.

    I’ve noticed it many times since.

  • Nelson Mandela

    Was a helluva fella

    And I’m a tella ya

    He wasn’t yella

    But he was

    Very mella

    He didn’t have

    To yella Stella!

    To put apartheid

    In the cella.


    Francis was a guy

    Who even worshiped

    The sky

    The sun was

    His honey-bun

    And the moon

    His holy one

    Just for fun he would

    Feed the birds

    Who heard his words

    And seemed to understand

    Every one he said

    I bet he could even

    Raise the dead

    Or read a book

    To a running brook

    And feel a

    Nodding head

  • With thanks for the simple concept to Colorado Bob at Scribbler;

    Decades ago when the global heating from “greenhouse” CO2 emissions hypothesis was first proposed, some critical key predictions were made.

    By definition, a scientific hypothesis must make testable predictions to support the relevant question being asked.

    If man increases CO2 in the atmospheric COMMONS, the following “should/would” happen;

    … precipitation events would come in ever more intense events, and last longer.

    devastating floods would be commonplace.

    weather events & storms would become more intense & extreme (James Hansen’s storms of my grandchildren).

    night time low temperatures would increase.

    “wet bulb” temperatures would increase.

    heat waves would get hotter, come more often, and stick around longer.

    the great ice sheets would begin to melt more & more rapidly.

    droughts would become more intense.

    the oceans would become more acidic.

    permafrost would begin to thaw.

    Methane clathrates would be released

    Every single one of these testable predictions has been observed & documented with varying degrees of precision.

    The predictions have been tested & conclusively proven.

    The predicted climate change disruptions are already causing tremendous human suffering, property damage, & painful death.

    Our life sustaining planet is ONLY at .85 degrees C. increase (fever is more descriptive) in global heating, & going higher rapidly as we watch.

    The global heating/greenhouse hypothesis is TRUE.

    There is no way to turn the rapidly accelerating heating OFF.

    We are in a runaway state.

    It can only get worse.

    Near term human extinction approaches certainty, as certain as anything can be.

    It will be a phantasmagorical & gruesome end for humanity.

    Make the most off your limited time left.

  • For anyone interested, there is a great interview with BTD on Extinction Radio, episode 12. Guy is there. Gail has begun really fine reports on the condition of various species and environments. Paul Beckwith is there too, among others. Paul Beckwith now seems to think there is a negative feedback on the horizon that could turn global heating around: the demise of about half the population could make it possible, he says. Personally, I can’t get my head around that. For one, the first half to die will be the poor, and they don’t produce near as much CO2 as the rest of us. For another, there is an intuitive sense in me that agrees with the data that implies we’re on a runaway train, the methane monster won’t be so easily tamed.

    Growing up in Florida, I used to love the feel of the Sun. But, for the past decade, at least, it feels more like being in a microwave oven. Maybe that’s what’s beginning to kill everything off, too much infrared getting through. Or who the heck knows what kind of rays getting through nowadays. I heard the other day that the electromagnetic spectrum is huge, compared to the frequencies we are aware of.

    Paul suggests that people are ‘driven’ to buy guns due to stress and a sense of powerlessness, etc. (“gotta have a gun”). I agree, Paul, that’s why I bought mine. If I didn’t have a family, I don’t think I would stress about it so much…but I would still want to own a gun because having a gun may make me able to protect some strangers from rape and horrible tortures. But yes, the trigger point that prompted me to make the move and purchase my first gun, at around age 60, was the stress provoking realization of how I would feel if my wife and daughter were being brutally raped and killed and I was totally unprepared to protect them. It was a very sad milestone for me to take on the title of ‘gun owner’, but I still believe it was the correct thing to do. And don’t forget suicide…I plan on starving to help provide food for the young members of my family. But, if the misery gets too much…BANG!

  • We are going extinct because rich comfortable often “well educated” people profligately burned fossil fuels.

    I am one of them.

    Only about 25 per cent of the world’s population is responsible for burning billions of tons of fossil fuels

    Our waste product CO2 emissions were considered so UNimportant that they were completely ignored as an “externality” by the “trained” economists running the entire political economy.

    The system was very tight, & the esoteric equations & wordsmithing of the genius economists justified everything.

    A few astute observers considered the polluting political economy to be a glaring & farcical fraud, but they were written off as cranks by the fancy suited establishment geniuses.

    Yabut, a simple fact brings the technological suicide/homicide into clear focus because …

    the heat generated by burning fossil fuels is paltry when compared to the subsequent massive heating of the planet by the waste CO2 & the “greenhouse effect.”

    The planetary heating generated by CO2 & the greenhouse effect from the sun’s radiative forcing is at least 100 times greater (and increasing) than the heat released from the original burning.

    In rudimentary but accurate terms this is why we will all soon be suffering (more?) & dying.

    The stored methane is releasing now, & it will not stop (a prediction).

    Our only choice left is when & how to die & possibly with whom.

    There isn’t any viable defense, except to make the most of the time left & possibly choose the time & method of our own deaths.

    Sure love remains, as well as plenty of disgust, contempt, & outright hate.

  • @Tom: “i predict that by 2019 everyone [that’s capable of rational thought] will know that we’re on our way out and that we’ll [for all intents and purposes] be extinct as a species by 2030 – 2040.”

    I’m inclined to agree with you. Things are really starting to move fast. Events will soon overtake us. We’re on the brink of a collective ‘oh shit’ moment. My only hope is that folks will follow Guy’s advice to excellence and compassion when that moment comes. Mainly we won’t.

  • I’ll second (or third) that observation about the sun. My lifestyle keeps me outdoors a lot, and it seems, especially over the last few years, that there are times when the sunlight just gets too strong to be healthy. I suspect some kind of UV fluctuation is going on.
    On top of everything else.

  • Hi Lark, Sabine, and Kirk Hamilton!

    Thank you so much for thinking of me! I REALLY appreciate it!

    I still lurk here at NBL throughout the day, but sorry, I haven’t written anything in awhile—haven’t been able to come up with anything new to say.
    Lark, iirc (apologies if I’m mistaken), you are the ONLY person who ever busted me (accurately) on any doomer site for being a smart ass. Sabine, I always value your sane and balanced posts. Kirk, there is indeed an interview of me at Extinction Radio. I sound like Dennis Hopper in “Apocalypse Now” mixed with any Sarah Palin transcript, and ending (in the portion which was preserved) in a stoned hippy meltdown. I still read previously posted limericks on the radio shows, but I hope (hopefully it’s not hopium) to have the fortitude and perseverance to decline future interview requests!

    Thanks again!


  • Kirk,

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience as a “gun owner”. Knowing a little about you from your comments, I understand why you might feel bad about the label “gun owner”.
    To me, as a European, this American gun thing is so alien, that I just can’t get my head around it. Maybe because it’s my being a woman too because I just read your comment to my husband and his reaction was: “Lucky man, at least he could go out and buy a gun. I’d do the same if it were so easy here.”

    All good men feel responsible for their loved ones, I understand. In our patriarchal societies, women always had to resign themselves to leave that sort of thing to the men. But women can look after themselves very well, don’t forget.
    However, should it come to the kind of extreme event you talk about, a vision of “The Road”, would you really be able to protect your loved ones? I hope so. Loving fathers in war situations have always reacted like you plan to do but often found that it wasn’t possible. It’s probably happening somewhere in this world while we speak.

    My own grandfather was in this situation at the end of the WWII. He tried to protect his daughters from rape when the Russians arrived in Silesia (then Germany now part of Poland) where they lived. He had a weapon – to no avail. My mother, the youngest of three daughters, was already in the West and didn’t have to suffer that fate, just her two older sisters. These rapes were never a one off but a constant danger. Her middle sister got pregnant, and the abortion was done with a knitting needle. Women are brave and have to be resourceful, believe me – and my grandfather found he was powerless. Imagine the humiliation but that’s the reality of war when women are always the losers.

    The Americans and the British (and all the other Anglos) were lucky. You don’t have this in your very resent history, not having had fighting on your soil and being invaded by marauding troops. However, women had to suffer this terror for thousands of years, all over the world. Each individual woman has to come to terms with that in her own mind. But all Western women who were born after the war are very lucky too. I count my blessings every day and will kill myself should your vision become a reality. Women have always done this too. It’s just another part of our species’ history which is never talked about. That’s why the people in the “developed” world are always so surprised when they hear about this happening in war zones now. They start “campaigns” to stop this, and the UN comes up with a useless resolution. “How could this happen now?” they all cry. All to no avail.

    Anyway, I’m not in denial about anything. I have my eyes wide open, and I hope that I’ll be brave and face things head on, and when it gets too bad, take the “easy” way out. For that, a gun would be a good thing.

  • Curious to Cuntagious – what a spectrum. Callaghan, WoodWose, Tom, Mike K. Gerald, Izzy, Lark & I forgot who wrote the insight about watching the golf tournement on Canada lawns painted green – but wow this NBL sure is better than our Washington D.C. state Dept for world perspective.

    Koyaanisqatsi in IMAX at USC medial school campus 1980’s — we have been watching this for decades. Speeding up the big picture. There is scientific mesaurable data to Fukishima radiation being a factor in the North Pacifc warm blob. El Nino churning down south is thermal excess heat regulation. Carbon acidification is testable by teams of those who measure then test salt water reactivity in labs.

    KIRK HAMILTON – great post. Please add 4G of microwave power to the cooking effect more sensitive people are feeling. Cell phone networks and an increase in our private & government signal channels running on high energy MICROWAVEs. Remember when we were concerned about avoiding the microwave oven when it was running in the kitchen??? Now I’m writing this on an I-phone frying myself with microwaves. The doors are off the oven. Cooking up conversations & commerce with every cell tower. Yep – Civilization is full of heat engines. Guess some like it hot in those selfies….snap shots of extinction increasing full blast as we sell every living cell to the invisible “M.K. ultra” frequency.

    “How Humanity Learned to Hate Itself. And Then Died.” Okay, okay, I know. We’re not dead. Yet. But for all intents and purposes, we are killing ourselves off. And I don’t just mean physically.

    According to the best available scientific literature, we’re definitely doing that and in increasingly dangerous and accelerated ways. That’s something as a society (oh, and brief, necessary note: I use terms like humanity and society in giant glaring ways and those of you who are inclined to sensitive reading should note I pretty much mean western modern society and I apologize for being so broad with my language) we’re pretty much obsessed with in that oh-it’s-so-gross-I-can’t-stop-looking-at-it kind of way. We know more and more in deeper and deeper ways just how screwed we are ecologically. And yet we continue on, dig our heels in and argue that at least some human comfort is reasonable while we watch the world burn. Right?

    But we’re killing ourselves off in other ways, too. And this is what I find so interesting. This is where the Misanthropocene hits its full stride: we’re so misanthropic we’re busy disappearing humanity from more than just the face of the planet. We’re caught up in what I describe as a wave of cultural misanthropy in which we imagine again and again our own deaths, our obliteration, our demise, our uselessness and ultimately our irrelevance. Like the dark web which is not available for public content. There is a form of dark mental “woo” that is a true dark matter. Collectively we create on many levels as we do use all sorts of energies. From bright solar to CERN backholes, a universe in the duality. Which way do we go ?????

  • @Sabine

    ‘A Women in Berlin’ was a terrifying account of the “spoils of war”.

    While you seem like a very gracious and compassionate human being, and your voice here is one of the more refreshing as of late, it’s not surprising your comment to Kirk seeks to take the high road, but here’s another way of looking at it from a less than compassionate perspective…..because frankly, parents simply deserves the hell they more than helped create.

    @ Kirk (the last American male standing)

    So in spite of over a half century of dire warnings that any number of “things” was fundamentally wrong with the human race, you still opted to add to the dilemma by creating even more disastrous consumption, because you solipsistically thought it your right to do so. You decided to either ignore or dismiss all the information of the ecological impact just one American child comparatively has had on the planet. And now out of the bases of human fears, you seek to justify buying a gun to kill people, so you can protect all that you now righteously consider to be yours?

    It’s shocking and depressing that after two million years of supposed evolution, so little separates YOU from a naked ape standing in front of a cave with his dick in his hand and a rock in the other. Have you urinated along your property line yet?

    All you need is a mirror to see how the human race drove the world to extinction. Well done. Now, please stop complaining about the waste you left in your wake, because you read like just another fucking gun totting hypocrite…..Ye Ha cowboy!!!

    And when the starving rapists start to darken you doorstep, please kill yourself and your progeny with your new polished toy before you feel entitled to kill someone else with it. At least that way, you will have sought to redeem your original sin.

    However, if you chose to adopt, then I’ll be more than willing to eat every other word.

  • I found this perspective on the decay of society interesting and think many others will too. One can criticise Doug Casey for his self-preservation philosophy in the realisation that he is surrounded by ‘chimpanzees’ (actually, many of us now recognise that humans are far worse than chimpanzees) but many of his observations are worth sharing.

  • Sabine, excellent comment. Thanks for taking up where Kathy C. left off, in terms of practical advice for women. She would have added the advice that women of child-bearing age get themselves sterilized, to avoid the knitting-needle scenario.

  • Daniel, I read “A Woman in Berlin” last year and couldn’t put it down, a recommended book for those who deal in reality and acknowledge the true nature of man.

    Another excellent book about those few who have wisely gone against the pack:

    “The sense that having children is the most worthy of human activities is questioned by the writer Tim Kreider, who argues that it’s ‘a pretty low-rent ultimate purpose that’s shared with viruses and bacteria.’ Ditto Geoff Dyer, who writes in his very funny essay that ‘not having children is seen as supremely selfish, as though the people having children were selflessly sacrificing themselves in a valiant attempt to ensure the survival of our endangered species, and fill up this vast and underpopulated planet.'”


  • Thanks for the link,AJ.Another good excerpt from it:
    ‘Not having children isn’t selfish. Not having children is a perfectly
    rational and reasonable response given that humans are essentially parasites on the face of a perfectly lovely and well-balanced
    planet,ploughing through its natural resources,eradicating its endangered
    species,and ruining its most wonderful landscapes.This might sound misanthropic,and it is,but it is also true’

    Part of the problem,of course, is that many people remain unaware of even
    basic ecological knowledge until after they have reproduced. Some then become aware ,and regret. A good example would be Sting,who had five children,then lectured everyone about about our environmental responsibilities.
    Paul Ehrlich is acutely aware of this, and emphasizes the need to have
    Ecology taught in primary schools.
    My main fury is for those in positions of power and influence who encourage exactly the wrong course. An example from Australia from a few years ago,is the then Australian treasurer,trained in law,who gave speeches encouraging Australians to have three children,’Two for yourselves,and one for the country’ and who introduced tax incentives,often called a ‘baby bonus’ to encourage large families.

    Another book which sounds worth reading is ‘Better never to have been’
    by David Benatar

  • one of the reasons (there is never only one reason) why the sun feels the way it does, and looks the way it does, deflected and overblillant,is because of the haze created all over the globe by plane fuel, smoke and other form of pollution. There is a permanent veil that deflect the rays and make the light diffused and blinding and the feeling harsh. The diffracted light rebounds on metal and a lot of objects making it difficult and tiring to stay in the sun. I only know of a French site (http://www.eauseccours.com/) who documents this and has posted thousands over thousands of pictures over the past years. The owner of the site is mostly preoccupied by the fact that he says the pollinators need direct vertical light to orient themselves and get lost and die when the light is diffracted.

  • BtD, just hearing your voice cheers me up. I had to look up ‘iirc’ and yes, ‘yrc’ (or is it ‘urc’ – I’m hopelessly behind the times, in a with-it sort of way). Sometimes I think word-play is better than fore-play (only sometimes).

    I’ve been preoccupied for a few weeks now, writing and writing here and there, seeing if there’s any way on Earth to stop a big telecom company from erecting a 90 metre (300 foot) cell phone tower a few kms from our home and garden of 40 years and DIRECTLY in the middle of an established rural neighbourhood of 20 dwellings.

    Rumour is that it may be being built at the request and behest of either a high-up exec or close family members of the company in question, who – poor dear(s) – don’t get a very good signal at their vacation home on the other side of an inconvenient cliff – a ‘geographic anomaly’ the company calls it – otherwise known and mostly preserved as the magnificent Niagara Escarpment. These corporate types have no shame; they’re underhanded and high-handed at the same time. At the end, only love remains, but I’m holding on to a fragment of hate in the meantime.

    Five tall towers crept into my dreams last night, looming mechanical monsters studded with satellite dishes and antennae.

    Ultimately, I know, it won’t matter a wit if the tower is built, but I’d hate to live my remaining 20 or 30 years here, on land I love in a place that is a sweet and sustaining home, with that shit staring down on us, like the eye of doom, all the damn time. The very thought of it makes me sad and scared.

  • lark, I hear you. We are battling a 1,150,000+ s.f. multi-use development along our highway interchange. Yeah, these things often live or die according to important backers or opponents, “transparent process” and democracy be damned. Good luck to you!

  • @mike k

    I’m glad to meet you again on this hot and dry beach at the end of the world. Yes, I’ve been here all along, wheeling above this beach all the time, observing the Purushas and the Prakritis in their neverending battle. Yeah, it looks like a horrendous, bloody battle from below, but when one rises with the updraft by letting go, it seems more like Dantes Divine Comedie, like a shivery Dance and it’s hard to distinct Purushas from Prakritis from a distance, they actually seem to be One, like brothers embracing eachother, like One Purushottama. Isn’t it the very same Fire, the same Duende that burns in Heaven and in Hell? Well, let’s drink up that Sacred Cup of Met bravely and with passion!

    It’s such an inspiring and beautiful incidence to meet soulmates like you in the vastness of the internet. I’m thankfull for all the inspiring sand-pictures you paint onto this hot and dry beach as a consolation, as a cool drink for the thirsty, dried up soul, thou Angel of deep Spirit and Beauty…

    Who, if I cried out, would hear me among the Angelic
    Orders? And even if one were to suddenly
    take me to its heart, I would vanish into its
    stronger existence. For beauty is nothing but
    the beginning of terror, that we are still able to bear,
    and we revere it so, because it calmly disdains
    to destroy us. Every Angel is terror.
    And so I hold myself back and swallow the cry
    of a darkened sobbing. Ah, who then can
    we make use of? Not Angels: not men,
    and the resourceful creatures see clearly
    that we are not really at home
    in the interpreted world. Perhaps there remains
    some tree on a slope, that we can see
    again each day: there remains to us yesterday’s street,
    and the thinned-out loyalty of a habit
    that liked us, and so stayed, and never departed.
    Oh, and the night, the night, when the wind full of space
    wears out our faces – whom would she not stay for,
    the longed-for, gentle, disappointing one, whom the solitary heart
    with difficulty stands before. Is she less heavy for lovers?
    Ah, they only hide their fate between themselves.
    Do you not know yet? Throw the emptiness out of your arms
    to add to the spaces we breathe; maybe the birds
    will feel the expansion of air, in more intimate flight…

    R. M. Rilke, Duino Elegies

  • The Latest from a Respected Refereed Journal


    Scientists predict that human activity has put the world on the brink of the sixth mass extinction in earth’s history, an event characterized by the elimination of a large number of species within a very short period of time. Here is a timeline of extinction events over the planet’s history:

    450 million years ago: First Extinction: A bunch of dumb fish die

    450 million years ago-360 million years ago: Pretty smooth sailing, all things considered

    360 million years ago: Second Extinction: Following the eradication of 96 percent of all life, planet’s surviving bacteria really living it up

    250 million years ago: Third Extinction: Despite dire warnings of many within the scientific community, increasingly alarming assertions that another mass extinction could be imminent are largely ignored by dinosaur community

    205 million years ago: Fourth Extinction: End of winged crocodile species that would have blown your fucking mind

    65 million years ago: Fifth Extinction: Last living dinosaur on earth walks around confusedly for a few days before falling into a ravine

    20 million years ago: God dies

    1500 BCE: First inkling human beings might be plowing through every single species in path

    1992 CE: Kyoto Protocol tossed into path of oncoming extinction

    2010 CE: British Petroleum announces yearly earnings of $29.5 billion

    2015 CE: Town of Stonington, CT holds little recycling drive

    2200 CE: Sixth Extinction: Centuries of unchecked human activity wipe out 99.9 percent of all remaining species on earth; flora and fauna who are free from sin ascend to heaven

    2200 CE-800 million CE: Horseshoe crab racked with survivor’s guilt


  • Robert, You wrote: ” Right now, there are children in Yemen and Afghanistan who pray for cloudy days because they know drones don’t fly when it’s cloudy. As far as I’m concerned the Pope can stick his pointy hat up his ass. I have no use for bullshit no matter how prettily it’s dressed up.”

    In response to your observations on things, it’s difficult to find how you can be so right in the first few words of your comments and yet so distant from reality in the second part of your paragraph.

    In the first part someone is trying to kill, while in the second someone is trying to save, yet you seem to suggest that somehow they are one and the same? Without going into much detail about the pope being a messenger of a God or some goof being a messenger of death by droning, how can the two be correlated with any sense of credibility.

    Isn’t there a disconnection here. There is no measurable current coming through…..

  • Well they’re linin’ up at the banks in Greece and Puerto Rico can’t pay it’s 72+ Billion $ debt. Should be a good day in the financial markets.

    June 29, 2015

    Straight Disaster
    Is Fukushima Getting Worse?

    Won’t be long now.

  • .

    Looking forward to war, famine, and pestilence.

    Just sitting on this runaway train, staring out the window, with a cat on my lap.

    The Voluntary Extinction Movement
    “…thou shalt not procreate.”

    The Church of Euthanasia
    “Save the planet, kill yourself.”

  • The Fukishima problem is immense, far-reaching, and daunting as its containment vessels are leaking radioactivity every day, every hour, every minute. How to stop it is not known, which is likely the definition of a nuclear meltdown!

    Raw raw military crap on “The Last Ship” last night. Ever notice how all the survive & rescue shows do not include Nuclear Power plant problems. Even is the San Andres movie cities collapse but no effect on the power plants. In pandemic event or any serious crisis the plants do not maintain themselves for long. We have gvt propaganda here sort of like Tepco asking Hollywood to overlook the serious realities. Control over mental impressions but little control over actual matter.

    Monday morning report about prep for climate chaos Sept 22-24 on my desk at Dept of Energy. Arctic sea ice extreme minimum expected. Brookings institute. Sept spike 2c. John Kerry calling meeting for high energy particle physics & other emergency measures to induce North Alaska / Bering Sea freeze zones.

    We are the Asteroid. I’m flying up to Alaska next week for Radial telemetery tests to be conducted with HAAPP array. Frequency burn holes into atmosphere to induce ozone vortex to Arctic sea level. Hope to cut the funds because it is not worth the risk. Shell oil offering private security & science staff for the station.

    NASA condition code 7 for 7-7 HM10 1.1LD 42meters wide. 9-24 “BENNU” is the one you should not know about.

    Compared to our ancestors we are the Aliens. Botoxed Transfat Transhuman Trans-G. TESLA: how fast can we push evolution? Sir ISSAC NEWTON predicted scientific Atonement for Sept 23. Jade-Helm starts next week. TheExtinctionProtocol.wordpress.com

  • Jean, i like surreality, paradoxes and the like. To me it displays the fallacy that mathematical and linguistic arguments supercede reality. It is this belief that allows scientists to say we are losing 200 species per day or priests to say there is life after death. Both statements are ridiculous unknowns of the belief in language and logic over belief in observational reality. But, since I never graduated high school I’m free to just make this shit up as I go along.

    Existential Unreality

    In 2007, the IPCC told us emissions must peak by 2015 to stay within 2 °C of warming.

    In 2014, the IPCC told us emissions must peak by 2030 to stay within 2 °C of warming.

    The IPCC says we can make this change because of they call “negative-emissions bio-energy” for which no such technology exists, and the kicker is that, they say, we will need 1.5 billion acres of NEW farmland to do it. That much farmland is about the size of India which is equal to nearly 50% today’s arable land worldwide. The acronym for this fantasy is BECCS. The real acronym is BS.



    In 60 years, human agriculture will stop because of soil loss and degradation.


    We have to grow more food over the next 50 years than we grew in all of the last 10,000 years, combined.



    We will need 12 million acres of brand new farmland every year for 30 years to do it. We are losing 24 million acres of farmland every year.


    We will run out of easy access to 2 critical fertilizers which are irreplaceable, cannot be manufactured by humans and for which there are no substitutes.


    In 10 years 4 billion people will be without enough water.
    In 10 years 2 billion people will be severely short of water.


    Ground water depletion has gone critical in major agricultural centers worldwide.




    The world’s rivers and lakes are drying up.



    Drought is spreading across the earth.


    In 20 years we will pass peak energy and minerals.


    This will happen when all our new solar panels and wind mills stop working and become expensive junk we can’t afford to replace or recycle in times of shortages in water, food, energy, minerals and civility.



    M.I.T. predicts world economic collapse in 15 years.


    Lloyd’s of London predicts the end of civilization in 25 years.


    See, there is nothing paradoxical about reality.

  • Hello!

    I’m a new follower of this great site full of disturbing information.
    For many years I’ve been very much interested in meteorology (as an amateur) so I’ve observed a more than noticeable change in weather conditions in my home country Croatia, and the neighbouring states.

    Merely 15 years ago, you could easily tell how the weather is likely to be in certain month just by listening to what the old people are saying. That was especially true for rural areas where most of the activity is dependent on weather conditions. And good planing is the key to good harvest, so the people took a lot of effort trying do connect the current meteorological events to the future prospects. There were certain dates (usually various christian holidays) whith exact weather predictions.

    For example, there was a saying “Sveti Luka u prste huka” which meant that there will be some frost around 18th of October.
    Or “Sveta Kata snijeg na vrata” which meant that there will be snow around 25th of November.
    And it really was like that in 8 out of 10 times.

    Around the year 2000., everything started to change noticeably. And it is getting worse every year. Everybody you talk to can notice the change. Nothing is predictable any more.

    For example, in such a small area as continental Croatia, during the preiod 2012.-2015. we had: a month with greatest amount of snow in recorded history, a season with both the least and the most precipitation in recorded history, we had coldest month in recorded history and only several months later, a warmest month in recorded history. The storms are heavier, winds are stronger…

    A year ago we had the most devastating ice storm ever, and couple of months later deadliest floods ever recorded. Constant temeperature oscillations are a new normal – for example, one day it’s 35 degrees Celsius, and the next it’s 15 degrees. Couple of days later, it gets over 30 again. In late June there is a fog, and morning temperatures falling near zero, and in January it can get over 25 degrees with everything in blossom. Older citizens especially suffer from this unstable weather.

    Christmas holidays 2013. probably had the most unusual weather ever. December 21st-22nd there was an immense snowstorm followed by temperatures falling below -25 degrees Celsius. And than “bang!”, strong southern winds brought the “great meltdown”. In less than 24 hours, some weather stations measured 45 degrees Celsius temeperature rise. And finally, on Christmas Day we were “blessed” with a thunderstorm and a bit of hail. In the past years we have already experienced weather-realted water shortage, and power-outages and a series of serious problems in agriculture. And as far as I understand – it’s only just begun!.

    I could go on and on, but I don’t want to bother you with more-less irrelevant details. Overall, in the past 2-3 years there were more various weather-related records broken than during half a century before. I believe that this fact speaks enough for itself. Something “big” is going on but nobody is taking it serious (isn’t that typical?).
    Media are full of election year related craze, some unimportant public scandals, concerns about GDP growth, worsening of NATO-Russia relations… Weather extremes are mentioned just for fun – not a trace of a real concern there.

    The year 2014. was calculated to be around 1.8 degress celsius above 1971-2001. normal values, with almost 50% more precipitation.

    I can’t even begin to imagine a year with over 4 degrees above normal… If that is really and inevitably our near future, merely 10-20 years from now, than we better start preparing for survival in such conditions. If there is no way this process can be reversed, and there is no way all of humanity can be saved – than we should forget trying to “change the world” and just try to “save our own asses”.

    Naturally, the next question is – how? In a >4 degrees warmer world – where is a place with decent conditions for agriculture? I guess it would be somewhere north? Maybe in western Siberia? Or would getting to higher elevation do the trick? For each 500 feet altitude, there is an average temperature drop od 1 degree celsius, and there is also more precipitation which could prove life saving when it comes to growing food…

    It is never as simple as that, but as a “rule of thumb” could you say that for a random given geographical region, in a 4 degrees warmer world, the conditions at 2000 ft altitude would be similar to conditions at 0 ft altitude prior to warming?
    Or could you say that the average conditions at 45 degrees latitude in an 4 degrees warmer world would be roughly equivalent to conditions at, let’s say, 30 degrees latitude today?
    (given that the other variables are the same, such as elevation, distance to main water surfaces etc…)

    Unfortunately, even if climate migration might be some short term solution for a certain number of people, there is nearly not enough room for everyone… And the temperature rise will probably get higher by each year gradually making even those “climate shelters” inhospitable.

    I’m getting more concerned with every new article I read about this. But no one else that I know shares the same fears. Even though they notice some changes in the climate, they still think it is minor and that it doesn’t pose a risk to the civilization as we know it. They are making plans for distant future when “every little thing is gonna be alright”, when the civilization will be heading for the bright tomorrow of the new technologies. When I start talking about possible NTE, their reaction is like “Oh, you know what your problem is – you worry too much”.

    Maybe under such influence, I’m still kind of rolling back and forth between the full aknowledgement of the threat and thinking it can’t be really that critical. In the next hundred years or so, it definitly could become serious, but during my lifetime? And most likely during the lifetimes of my children and grandchildren… Yes, there are observable changes compared to 10 or 20 years ago… But is seems far away from bringing civilization to shreds…

    Yeah, as many of you argued, it’s not easy to accept that instead of thinking in terms of “what are you striving to acomplish in life” you’d be better off thinking “how will I survive”… Despite being only 23 years old, I’ve “come to terms with my life” in a certain way. Never cared much about socio-economic hierarchical way of “measuring” one’s life. I’ve always been more of a loner… And more inclined towards spirituality. But still, those dark prospects bother me often.

    Sorry for the long text. I hope my Engilsh is good enough to be fully understood.

    All the best to everyone!

  • Mark,
    Err!! What are you writing about????
    “HAAPP array”, “Botoxed Transhuman Trans-G”,” Jade-Helm”, “Code 7 for 7-7HM101.1LD”, “9-24 BENNU”, “Ozone vortex to Arctic sea level”, and so on….

    English please, or French maybe…. I can understand both to some extent, but the above quotes from you are beyond my pay grade.

  • ..


    Looking forward to war, famine, and pestilence.

    Just sitting on this runaway train, staring out the window, with a cat on my lap.

    The Voluntary Extinction Movement
    “…thou shalt not procreate.”

    The Church of Euthanasia
    “Save the planet, kill yourself.”

  • “I’ve been preoccupied for a few weeks now, writing and writing here and there, seeing if there’s any way on Earth to stop a big telecom company from erecting a 90 metre (300 foot) cell phone tower a few kms from our home and garden of 40 years and DIRECTLY in the middle of an established rural neighbourhood of 20 dwellings.”

    We have a similar issue pending along the scenic main road not far from us. I hope you prevail.

  • @Jean Turcot, sorry I was being gallows humor silly with the Trans-genetic stuff in the face of more dire work to get processed here in Washington D.C. today.

    JPL keeps a hazard code system on Asteriods (not including the Human race as more destructive than an asteroid) July 7 would be in the range of hitting the moon. (lot’s of craters on the moon) fragments, side effects. minor alert notice to use dealing with Nuclear plants safety issues.

    Jade-Helm is a huge military operation that starts next week. Planning was secret till semi-Snowden types in all depts blew the whistle. Fox news and other TV sources will cover Jade-Helm actions this summer but they have agreed to keep much of the details on Texas maneuvers off the air. It is our largest ever drill with FEMA. DARPA is testing new gear. I have to deal with a simulated attack on Nuclear plants. Much more involved than I can quicly today.

    “BENNU” is classified. Dig a little. French minister Laurent F. is closely tied to Brookings Institute warning (John Kerry is very concerned in meetings on camera.) Sept 22-24 arctic sea ice min = dangerous experiment with methane capture tech. Dr. Mc Pherson & Paul Beckwith will probably find out the data not released yet to the public. China, Russia, Canada in joint “Energy” operation. Best tip I can legally provide is IRON BEAM by Rayethon high energy direct frequency applications. A world wide network of Industrial-military & corporate advances are accelerating like I have never seen before. If I dare I will continue to provide NBL tips because this is rapid Extinction level events tied to greed & lack of risk management oversight. It is all connected to climate chaos, mitigation attempts, extraction & powers that are making serious developments to test the limits.

  • @Turcot – I admire the things you have written here on NBL this past year. Glad you are interested !!! Here is HARRP info direct from nrl.NAVY.mil easy to provide since it is in my travel docs for DARPA Energy site meetings thru August.

    HARRP is a new type of interactive research having application to a variety of Navy and DOD missions. The High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program, jointly sponsored by the Office of Naval Research, the Air Force Research Laboratory, and DARPA, is constructing a new interactive ionospheric research facility in Gakona, Alaska, to conduct both basic and applied research in this scientific discipline. We present a description of the major components of the HAARP Gakona Facility including technical detail of its current and planned performance capabilities. We also present some results from three research areas: extremely low and very low frequencies (ELF/VLF) generation, artificial optical emissions, and space research.

    Facility Description: The HAARP Gakona Facility is located in a relatively remote region of south central Alaska where a variety of ionospheric conditions may occur, ranging from quiet to mid-latitude to auroral. The major feature of the facility is the high frequency (HF) phased array antenna, currently consisting of 48 elements.
    – See more at: http://www.nrl.navy.mil/research/nrl-review/2004/atmospheric-science-and-technology/kennedy/#sthash.iCVxNMmp.dpuf

  • Woodwose – Thanks for that delicious slice of TSE.

    James Joyce said, “Welcome, O life! I go to encounter for the millionth time the reality of experience and to forge in the smithy of my soul the uncreated conscience of my race.”

    And also, “The artist is the intense center of his Age.”

    So true of Eliot and so many others. You cannot understand the world if you do not involve yourself deeply in art of every kind. I would not know the world as I do today without Bach, Stravinsky, the Beatles, Puccini, Leonardo, Paul Klee, Van Gogh, Andre Gide, Camus, – I can’t go on, there are too many friends, mentors, Angels… Divine expressions, conduits of the One Mind that is inexpressible, wonderful beyond all measure…I bow down to all my blessed ancestors human and otherwise and give thanks for all they have given us, and often suffered in consequence of their selfless giving….we can never remember and thank enough you host of Angels for all you have given us…. May we honor your lives by trying to carry on in your spirit as best we can…….

  • @ kevin moore Says:
    June 28th, 2015 at 1:40 pm

    While Mr. Casey does provide a few rational perspectives in that speech, on the whole, the astute listener will find it to be one of the finest examples of incongruent reasoning, aka disconnected and self-contradictory rationale, aka bat-shit insanity ever exhibited in a public forum. It is also exemplary of Guy’s abbreviation of Albert Bartlett’s famous(?) phrase, “The greatest shortcoming of humanity is a failure to understand, period!” Alas, it is all irrelevant in the face of the accelerating deterioration of everything that makes living even possible, let alone enjoyable.

  • @Robin Datta

    The Great Death is all that is needed: an end to the apparent reality of the “I”. The Self is birthless and deathless, the Void.

    How do you know that?

  • @Robin Datta

    The Self cannot win or lose, since there is no other to be won or lost.

    Can there be any contradiction to others when there is only the Self? And if so, does it really make sense to contradict to the Self?

    To whom am I talking when I adress a comment to Robin Datta? To the Self? To whom are you talking when you adress a comment to Curious? To the Self? Then talking makes no sense anymore, does it?

    To take things apart is one step, to put them together again, another. Can you do both?

  • Curious – Delicious cave paintings – takes me back! If I knew where to look I might find some I did….sure I would.

    You say, “Let’s die and be born again every evening, every morning, every breath…” Let me ask you a curious question – Have you ever been gazing on a scene in nature and begun seeing everything coming into being and dying way at the same time? Sort of like a fountain rushing forth and dying at the same time, sort of shimmering, vibrating and quietly radiant in its constant creation and dissolution?

    My wife has a rich inner life, but she is reluctant to talk about it. One day however I mentioned my experience to her and she quietly confirmed that yes she had observed the same thing. I was astounded, because I had always thought I must be unique in having this experience. So now I am curious and asking – anybody else ever experience that? I tend to think this is a glimpse of the continuous manifestation of our perceived reality from an unmanifested realm beyond it.

    I know that sharing this will cause the skeptic materialists amongst us (God bless them one and all) to close the book on me, firmly concluding that am a hopeless nut-case. You know what, I don’t care. I have no secrets I have to hide now. Haven’t you guys looked at the Clock of Doom recently? It’s getting rather late in our games together here – who gives a *#&@ what anybody thinks of them now?

    @Martin – Sorry you are having problems. Hang in there.

  • @Snowstormguy

    What a great post. Your English is excellent, better than many ‘native-born’ English speakers that I know, because you obviously OBSERVE and THINK, so you have something interesting and important to say, and put it together well. It’s the content that is important, not a perfect form (but you’re form is fine, too).

    I’ve lived in the same place for 40 years and changes have been dramatic. In the past there was steady winter snowfall, mountains of snow, starting in December and melting away gradually in the last half of March. Now, snow may start in November, then suddenly stop falling in December, and then a January thaw (all the snow gone) and sometimes a thunderstorm and heavy rains in February (unheard of just 10 years ago).

    People say: ‘What weird weather. But no one says: ‘Wow, the climate is really messed up now – so unpredictable’. And there’s this crazy sense that the chaotic pattern will just, magically, ‘fix itself’, a kind of blind ‘hope’ that’ll it will all get better or ‘go back to normal’ one day.

    The other thing that happens in a cold climate like ours (Canada) is folks actually LIKE the milder winters. You get a 10’C day in December and people are saying, ‘Hey, I hope it stay this way until April’. Not thinking what that means, just wrapped up in their own comfort and never looking at the ‘big picture’.

    I’ve been an organic gardener all my life, never considered myself a ‘survivalist’. We grow enough veggies to last the whole year through, especially with cold storage (no energy) in our cellar. I’m glad I know how to grow food, but I really don’t think it will matter much ‘down the road’.

    Good to hear from you. There is a lot to worry about, also a lot to enjoy and be grateful for. Take care and don’t stop observing, thinking, learning and caring.

  • Robin – These realized dudes you talk about are kina scary. Are they something like zombies – don’t give a #&@* about anything?
    Are they like a glowinthedark meat robot? Those suckers have gotta be real weird for sure….. Just foolin’ – I’m sure they are really neat….in their own way…. If I run into one, I don’t know what to say….run? Or maybe ask it ‘do you come in peace?’

    Paul – neat poem. I shoulda known you had that knack too – you are a renaissance man for sure.

    Curious – Don’t kid Robin too much – I’ve already gone too far with that. I just can’t seem to help it. Actually as you can discern Robin is a sincere and very knowledgeable Vedantist of his own particular understanding, and I don’t ridicule that or him at all. Some of his pronouncements just trigger me to make some smart crack about them. I have to apologize to him for my nonsense repeatedly, and I do so now again. Robin you are a good man and an intelligent and sincere believer in the aspects of Vedantic tradition you believe in. My remarks are not intended to hurt you or berate you in a mean way. Maybe I just need to treat you and your ideas with the respect they deserve instead of making an idiot of myself poking at you. I promise to do what I can to change that.
    I have seen the light, and will henceforth alter my behavior towards you and your expressions of your understandings. Thanks for your patience towards me; it says a lot about your good qualities. I am going to let the dumb comments I made at the beginning of this post stand to remind me of how insensitive I can be at times. I am now really ashamed of what I wrote above. Maybe that will help me to remember not to do something that stupid and uncalled for again.

  • You say, “Let’s die and be born again every evening, every morning, every breath…” Let me ask you a curious question – Have you ever been gazing on a scene in nature and begun seeing everything coming into being and dying way at the same time? Sort of like a fountain rushing forth and dying at the same time, sort of shimmering, vibrating and quietly radiant in its constant creation and dissolution?

    Yes, I see it all the time, everywhere, continously, hahaha, I can hardly see anything else. Call it “Fountain”, call it “Fire”, call it “Stream of Consciousness”, call it “Shunyata”, call it “Breathing under Water”, call it whatever you like, names can’t stick to it for long anyway :-)


    I know that sharing this will cause the skeptic materialists amongst us (God bless them one and all) to close the book on me, firmly concluding that am a hopeless nut-case.

    They can hardly do that, because in material quantum physics it’s the same, instant evolving and instant decay, is it a wave- function or is it a particle, is it a pair of lovers or is it a skull or both or nothing of that kind at all? What is it anyway?

  • Oh, and I do really respect Sir Robin Datta, I do appreciate his highly concentrated style.

  • When ALL concepts, all ideas, all imaginations, all I and all Not- I, all Self, all Not- Self, all Atman, all Anatman, all birth, all death, all no- birth, all no- death, all Eternity, all Not- Eternity, ALL NAMES, all pictures, All Everything is lost, BURNED DOWN, then we can talk, hahaha, like children playing on the beach, building castles in the sand, laughing, yelling, sleeping, dreaming and Mosthigh Awakened at the same time :-)

  • Hey Mark: i listened to this 2.75 hour radio program (based here in PA) about the Jade Helm thing. First thing i learned is that its like Cyberdyne systems in the Terminator movie – fully automated computer program that learns, predicts and adapts to the ‘human terrain’ as events progress, launching whatever is needed to contain any ‘threat.’ That’s totally mind blowing and unbelievably terrifying to me. What could go wrong? Nyaaaah!

    For anyone interested:


    Snowstormguy – welcome to the Beach of Doom!

    Hagmann & Hagmann Report Podcast June 25 2015 Full Podcast

  • Want to know what’s wrong with our world, and how to fix it? Read this:

    “What are we greedy for?

    A lot of people reacted to my comment on Facebook the other day that greed is more a symptom than a cause of our current system, with all its inequities. I’m asked, What is the cause of greed? First I’ll say what I think greed is: Greed is the insatiable desire for that which one doesn’t really need, or in amounts beyond one’s needs.

    When we are cut off from the fulfillment of our basic needs we seek out substitutes to temporarily ease the longing. Bereft of connection to nature, connection to community, intimacy, meaningful self-expression, ensouled dwellings and built environment, spiritual connection, and the feeling of belonging, lots of us over-consume, overeat, over-shop, and over-accumulate. How much do you need to eat, to compensate for a feeling of not belonging? How much pornography to compensate for a deficit of intimacy? How much money to compensate for a deep sense of insecurity? No amount is enough.

    The causes of our separation from all these things pervade every aspect of our culture. I was just reading yesterday an article about indigenous parenting practices. The author described how children rarely cried, because their needs were consistently and immediately met: constantly held day and night, given the breast on demand until they were three or four years old, and so on. It evoked memories of my childhood – though by our cultural standards extremely loving – in which I was nonetheless alone a lot, hungry for attention. Most of us in the West spent huge amounts of time alone: alone in the hospital nursery, alone in a crib, alone in a stroller, crying to have our needs met, and eventually adapting to them not being met. We toughened up and became used to a world where there is never enough, where we have to struggle and grasp and cling for fear of loss. Even the breast, the archetypal experience of plenty, was often denied, limited, or cut off before we were ready.

    Perhaps such an upbringing is necessary in our cultural context. Otherwise we go through life trusting, unguarded, soft, easily exploited. We are prepared from birth for a competitive, dog-eat-dog economy. You can see how that deeply programmed insecurity can manifest as an innate tendency toward greed. It makes greed seem like our default state, and generosity seem like a hard, contra-natural attainment.

    Various aspects of our economic system reflect this programming. For example, consider usury, which I described in Sacred Economics as the lynchpin of our system. The lender is fundamentally someone who has more money than he needs right now (that’s why he has the funds to lend), but instead of saying, “I don’t need it right now, you use it,” he says, “I’ll only let you use it if I end up with even more.” It fits right in with the mentality of scarcity and control. It fits in with a life experience that has taught, “There isn’t fundamentally enough. You have to grasp for it, ensure it, control those outside of you so that they will continue to meet your needs. Because if you don’t, your needs will not be met.” Because, most of us have not had enough of the experience of our needs being effortlessly met.

    This psychology of interest, writ large, forms the playing field upon which the bankers and CEO’s and pension fund managers and politicians and even the small savers operate. Certainly, some of these take the greed to appalling extremes, but even without the shenanigans of JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs, the financial imperative to convert all natural and social capital into money would continue. The megabanks and hedge funds are the cleverest and most ruthless game-players, but the result – ecocide and impoverishment – is written into the rules of the game.

    When I describe the experience of early childhood, I don’t mean to simplistically blame greed on only that. All aspects of our culture conspire to strip us of our connection and belongingness. Let me name a few more:
    – Religious indoctrination into self-rejection.
    – Schooling the keeps children indoors, fosters competition, and accustoms them to doing things they don’t care about for the sake of external rewards.
    – Hygienic ideology that fosters a fear and rejection of the world.
    – Immersion in an environment composed of standardized commodities, buildings, and images.
    – The alienating effects of living among inorganic shapes and right angles.
    – Property rights that confine us most of the time to our homes, commercial environments, and a few parks.
    – Media images that make us feel inferior and unworthy
    – A surveillance state and police culture that leave us feeling untrusted and insecure.
    – A debt-based financial system in which money is systemically scarce: there is never enough money to pay the debts.
    – A legal culture of liability in which everyone is assumed to be a potential opponent.
    – Patriarchal belief systems that oppress the inner and outer feminine, confine intimacy, and make love a transaction.
    – Racial, ethnic, and national chauvinism, that makes some of our human brothers and sisters into Others.
    – An ideology of nature-as-resource that cuts us off from our connectedness to other beings and leaves us feeling alone in the universe.
    – Cultural deskilling that leaves us as passive, helpless consumers of experiences.
    – Immersion in a world of strangers, whose faces we don’t recognize and whose stories we don’t know.
    – Perhaps most importantly, a metaphysics that tells us that we are discrete, separate selves in a universe of Other.

    I could name another hundred of these. They compose the water in which we have been swimming, coloring our basic conception of self and world, our basic experience of being human. By no means are they the totality of anyone’s experience. The deeper truth of interconnection, of interbeing, always breaks through in one way or another, putting the lie to the illusion of separation. And these breakthroughs will happen more and more as the world of separation crumbles.

    Just now my wife walked past me and gave me the most tender kiss. In that moment I felt completely at home. Have you ever been held in an experience of intimate connection and felt your wants diminish, felt the logic of control disintegrate?
    We can go to war against the greedy, but it will solve nothing. It will in fact exacerbate the problem, because it will strengthen the field of Separation, which at its basis is a war against the other, a war against nature, a war against ourselves, a war of each against all.

    Instead of war, what is the systemic version of that tender kiss? What will transform the atmosphere of scarcity that we are so accustomed to that it seems like reality itself? Because the “atmosphere of scarcity” is everywhere, everything must change. Sacred Economics describes the economic dimension of that kiss in the form of a lot of nuts-and-bolts economic proposals – reversal of usury, restoration of the commons, elimination of economic rents, a universal basic income, internalization of costs, economic localization, and so on. What they have in common is that they draw from a new and ancient story that no longer holds us separate. And, they contribute to a world that no longer drives us to separateness.

    But greed is a symptom of a malady far transcending economics. As the list above suggests, no aspect of our society will be untouched in the revolution of love that is underway.”

    Charles Eisenstein

  • Lidia – @mike k, what makes you think that experiencing material processes would be beyond the perception of materialists?

    I can’t remember saying anything like that. I would not agree with that statement. For clarity we need to agree that there is a whole range of “materialists.” Within that range I am definitely a materialist. The material world is definitely as real as anything gets – of course there is only reality – nothing exists outside that. Unreality is unreal and does not exist in the same way that “nonexistence” does not exist. So there is a range of involvements one can have with the material universe. I spent a lot of time studying scientific fields and the philosophy of science when I was younger, and a confirmed atheist. I am still a big fan of science and try to keep up with the latest stuff about cosmology and quantum dimensions.

    My problem with some versions of “science” wedded to a sort of fundamentalist belief that it has all the answers and that material entities and their consistent behavior can and eventually will explain everything that can be known. This is really a philosophic position far from being held by all scientists or philosophers, and is open to many devastating avenues of attack. Ironically there is no hard proof of this vast generalization beyond the naïve belief that since we have solved so many problems by materialist methods, we will in future be able to solve all problems in this way. The frontiers of science make such an unfounded belief almost laughable.

    Lidia you are an enquiring person like me. I applaud that and hope your keen intellect will come up with answers that satisfy you – at least for now, because I also suspect that like me you will always want to know more, and continue to ask questions on this infinite journey…..

  • The Indian Upanishads have a verse about two birds sitting in a tree. One eats fruit and chatters while the other looks silently on. The silent bird is the deep silence in everyone, the quiet place from which your inner power builds.

    . . . . . . .

    I seek a dialog with the quiet within

    The quiet bird, looking on silently
    The bird is shy, reticent
    It retreats in the face of harshness
    It can guide us, but first
    First the relationship, the connection with it
    Requires nurturing.
    – Rod MacIver

  • mike k, i loved your comment:

    Edge of Extinction: Predictions vs. Scenarios

    which i take was mostly quoting something charles eisenstein had written, that defined greed and linked it to our culture of alienation and isolation, in which our deepest psychological and emotional needs are chronically unmet. i thought it brilliant, if a bit overlong. it’s conclusion however, i have a problem with, this hoped for revolution of love that is supposedly already underway. i think that’s hopium. still, it’s nice to know that there are others at least who perceive our sick culture much as i do, and would have it different. thanks for sharing this, very much.

  • @mike k: “I can’t remember saying anything like that. ”

    [From above] Have you ever been gazing on a scene in nature and begun seeing everything coming into being and dying way at the same time? … I know that sharing this will cause the skeptic materialists amongst us … to close the book on me, firmly concluding that am a hopeless nut-case.


    @tvt, like Marx, Eisenstein understands the illness but falls short on the cure. I’ve read and liked all his stuff except for the part where he insists we will “grow up” achieve what he deems an ‘adult’ actualization. His is a cute metaphor, but sorely lacking in reality.

  • I’m reading your post again, mike.. and wow.. like Artleads and TVT you are unwittingly begging for someone like Gerald or ulvfugl (or me) to whack you upside the head.

    If you speak imprecisely you leave your flank wide open.

    You say: “For clarity we need to agree that there is a whole range of ‘materialists.'”

    Do we? Do we NEED TO do that? I understand “materialist” to mean that one accepts the substantiation of material processes, unburdened from unproven and speculative metaphysics. It sounds, instead, as though YOU WANT TO paint a spectrum to give your own intellectual ramblings more elbow room.

    “Within that range..”

    What range?

    “I am definitely a materialist.”

    Well, alrighty then!

    “The material world is definitely as real as anything gets – of course there is only reality – nothing exists outside that. Unreality is unreal and does not exist in the same way that “nonexistence” does not exist. .. So there is a range of involvements one can have with the material universe.”

    Where does this “range” come from? Personally, I am as immersed in the material universe as a fish is immersed in water. There isn’t a gradient of “involvement” I can choose.

    “My problem with some versions of “science” wedded to a sort of fundamentalist belief that it has all the answers and that material entities and their consistent behavior can and eventually will explain everything that can be known.”

    Science cannot “have all the answers” already, at the same time it seeks to explain things in the future. Science is not a Position, it is a Process. If (as you claim) you believe only in the Material world, then you understand that all answers may (not shall!) be found there.

    “This is really a philosophic position far from being held by all scientists or philosophers, and is open to many devastating avenues of attack.”

    Really? What are these “devastating avenues of attack”?

    “Ironically there is no hard proof of this vast generalization.”
    What vast generalization?

    “… beyond the naïve belief that since we have solved so many problems by materialist methods, we will in future be able to solve all problems in this way.”

    There may well indeed be many people who think salvation will come via “science”, but I don’t think most of them are actually scientists. You are throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. “Science” is supposed to be a process of inquiry, not a belief system.

    “Lidia you are an enquiring person like me. I applaud that and hope your keen intellect will come up with answers that satisfy you…

    It is not at all a question of what “satisfies me”. What would satisfy me is a warm evening in Rome with a glorious marbleized plate of thinly-sliced octopus antipasto at Pierluigi and a bottle of Greco di Tufo (except I hear that venue has become over-run with “celebrities” like Dennis Rodman.. eek!).

    Mike, where you and I differ, I believe, is that —in an apparently reviled minority— I am not personally looking for things which SATISFY ME. I am looking for truth, which may OFFEND, APPALL, SHOCK, ANNOY and DEPRESS me. The only “satisfaction” to be had is the sort evoked by 1+1 being seen to equal 2.

  • Lidia,

    “I’m reading your post again, mike.. and wow.. like Artleads and TVT you are unwittingly begging for someone like Gerald or ulvfugl (or me) to whack you upside the head.”

    I recall ulvfugl “kicking you down the stairs.” So now you’re a stand-in for him? What changed?

  • TOM – thanks for the pod cast link above. I’m listening right now as I wait to ride the metro under the capitol. I bet the cyberdyne A.I. will figure out we are ground zero for the threat. Crazy sh*t like mini nano terminators will swarm me first. LOL. A few people should know the worst of what we/they are developing.

    Mike K. – reading you is an antidote to the stuff I report about from D.C.
    All whacking upside the head should be directed at the global military industral complex. Hell we even have weapon-trade-show of horrors. Iron sky energy beam for sale to both Bejing & Kremlin.

    Lidia whack us constructing the ultimate material nightmares & slyly slipping it as propaganda transformer toys in kiddie cereal boxes.

  • @Artleads.. Ha ha! Yes, he’d surely correct my muddled thinking as I try to make sense of Mike’s!
    Point is, there is a lot of very mushy verbiage flying around.

    @Mark, awfully chilling scenarios you offer. I do wonder why they might bother with nanobots when it is far more simple to poison someone, or send their car off the road with Onstar… You are in a better position to whack than I… Have you thought of pulling A Snowdon?

  • Eisenstein understands the illness but falls short on the cure. I’ve read and liked all his stuff except for the part where he insists <bwe will “grow up” achieve what he deems an ‘adult’ actualization. His is a cute metaphor, but sorely lacking in reality.

    Right, there will never be a growing up for the masses, only a small number of individuals will take the chance to grow up, as it has always been. To grow up isn’t a topic for masses, only for individuals, it has always been that way. So, revolution will not be televised, because it is just a process within a small number of particular individuals, as it always has been. Freedom is no mass topic, the mass isn’t interested in growing up, that’s what history teaches unmistakeable. Only the particular individual human beeing can know the degree of freedom he achieved, only the individual can know if he freed himself from consumerism, slavery, doublethink, doublespeak, massthinking, herdthinking ect ect. The masses wil never be free, because that’s the nature of mass, any herd will always be in bondage, that’s the unmistakeable nature of any herd, of any swarm. There is no freedom in political parties, in corporate companies, in school, in groups, in peer groups, in families, in religious groups, in any group at all. Only the ONE who freed himself can truly know the degree of freedom he achieved, nobody else. To grow up, to get free has a price:

    Letting loose, letting go, becoming a loner, a lone, free, grown up wolf.

    So, get yourself together and get free from any group, any herd, don’t stick to anyone else- whoouuuuuu 8-)


  • WE will “grow up”…

    That’s the point:

    There is no “WE will grow up”, there is no “HERD will grow up”.

  • @lark

    Thank You for a confidence boost.
    But I’m still much better at reading/writing than in conversation. Sometimes I can’t remember the exact word and then get all choked up…

    Obviously we have some strange and unprecedented weather patterns unfolding in the past several years all around the globe.
    And at the same time, we have mostly ignorant people all around the globe.

    Winter and summer are in my opinion the best seasons to observe those changes. Because one of the most prominent features of the world warming is the increase in extreme weather – and it goes in “both directions”. Extreme heat waves and extreme cold waves, extreme drought and extreme precipitation.

    But the public perception is really inclined towards seeing the weather as “black and white”. There is no such thing as a “bad” or either “good” weather. The only good weather is normal weather, the weather as it used to be.
    But when there is 20+ degrees in January even the TV meteorologists are saying that this is a good weather and people are happy. And when there are extended periods of rain or there is a big snowstorm coming it is bad weather, and people are complaining. For me, that’s borderline retarded if not utterly retarded approach to this problem.

    Because of climate change, we get more of both extremes but usually in totally messed up order – winters tend to be warmer/drier and summers colder/wetter than before.
    But then it switches abruptly – abnormally long winter warmth becomes a wild snowstorm litteraly overnight. And equally abnormal long summer mildness quickly becomes an unbearable heat wave.

    But aside from an occasional harsh winter storm, winters are overly mild. And as you noticed – people are obliviously happy about it – smaller utility bills, less driveway shoveling… maybe even no need for buying winter tires? Many of them think that climate is actually IMPROVING. Even in my mother tongue I can barely find the words to express my resentment about such short-sightedness.
    But it’s useless to waste the words. We all know how it goes with the public opinion. You have a spot on word in English for such phenomenon – sheeple. Haha!

    So, you say you’re an organic gardener… In a more and more urbanized world prone to various disruptions in the supply chain, that is a real treasure. Not so much the actual garden that you own but the knowledge. In times like this maybe the best knowledge that you can have. Certainly much better than being an economist or a lawyer in a big city who doesn’t know how to use the lawnmower, let alone anything else.
    It’s very good that the rest of your family also takes part in the whole process.

    But why do you mean that organic farming won’t matter much “down the road”? Do you already notice the difficulties in growing food, even at this relatively small temperature increase?
    Do you think there is no way of adapting the farming/gardening process to greater warmth and all that goes with it?

    Sure, when you account for fast population growth, loss of arable land, deforestation, desertification, ever increasing depletion of various mineral resources critical to keep the civilization running… and atop of that the 4+ degrees warming over the next couple of decades – it becomes clear that millions, maybe even billions will eventually die of thirst, hunger, diseases, pollution… and that the civilization is on a path to it’s demise. And after that – what? – a “Mad Max” scenario?

    Any individual, no matter how noble intentions he might have, if he is not a part of the powerful corrupted elite – he won’t get in a position to make significant changes. And the elites obviously don’t want to get involved in it. Either they are ignorant, or more disturbing – consciously pursue a policy that will eventually lead to depopulation of the Earth. But that’s already the domain of conspiracy theorists – NWO, Illuminati etc.
    Not that there isn’t some truth in their claims but it’s difficult to distinguish the facts from utter bullshit wrapped arount them.

    Anyway, living in Canada, it seems to me that you and your family have strikingly bigger chances of survival in such conditions than those ones in Latin America, Africa, Southern Europe, Middle East, Southeastern Asia, Australia… and even better chances than those in most of the U.S. lower 48.

    I have a piece of land in the mountains, at around 4000ft elevation. There are patches of very fertile land and a spring nearby. The area receives an immense amount of precipitation – over 120″ yearly. As it is today, climate is too cold for a lot of fruits and veggies to grow, but if the average temperature increases it may become acceptable. You can always have some chickens, sheeps and goats, and the forests are also full of mushrooms, berries and of course, all kinds of game. I’ve read somewhere that the mountains of Croatia are a home to one of the world’s densest brown bear population (average 2 animals per square mile)…

    I know you said that you are not a “survialist”.
    But when I think about possible NTE it’s only naturally for me to start seeing the world in a survivalist “mode” – defining the crucial goods, defining where they can be obtained, defining the safest place to be in the event of the collapse of the civilization…
    That desolated mountain is the best answer I’ve got so far.

  • Thanks mike, but I can’t claim that poem. It was written by Adyashanti, my favourite living advaita/jnana teacher.

  • @Snowstormguy A little back-and-forth conversation? First you…

    Thank You for a confidence boost.

    You’re welcome – it was very sincere.

    But I’m still much better at reading/writing than in conversation. Sometimes I can’t remember the exact word and then get all choked up…

    Interesting expression: “All choked up…” Usually means: ‘Overcome with strong emotion, on the edge of tears, almost unable to speak.” Which is how I get sometimes when I let the reality of what’s happening now to the Earth and all creatures really sink in.. And I understood exactly what you meant. It actually interesting when words that usually mean one thing are used in a different context – the essence of poetry, really, so as we say in English: You may be a poet and just don’t know it.

    ….we have mostly ignorant people all around the globe.

    I have a good wise friend, Tai Chi teacher and therapist who says: Most people are brain dead. That is, they don’t exercise their minds, so the thinking function withers away, or falls into dull conformity – the sheeple ‘herd mentality’.

    …when there is 20+ degrees in January even the TV meteorologists are saying that this is a good weather and people are happy.

    The same here and it makes me crazy.

    …that’s borderline retarded if not utterly retarded approach to this problem.

    Brain dead, again.

    But why do you mean that organic farming won’t matter much “down the road”? Do you already notice the difficulties in growing food, even at this relatively small temperature increase?

    It’s not that. Things are growing beautifully now. When I said ‘down the road’, I think I had in the back of my mind an image from Cormack McCarthy’s book (also a film) ‘The Road’ – a landscape completely devastated by…you name it: severe climate change, nuclear fallout, epidemics, a general collapse of ‘civilization’. How useful will food growing skills be, when that kind of shit REALLY hits the fan? I know shit is a great fertilizer, but it’s a question of what kind and how much…HA! So I was thinking of a worst case scenario – you know, the marauding hordes, that Mad Max kind of world.

    Do you think there is no way of adapting the farming/gardening process to greater warmth and all that goes with it?

    I don’t know. It’s literally a matter of degree(s). We also still buy all of our seeds from some big companies, and if that supply chain was broken, then what? This year, I am letting one big Swiss chard plant go to seed (as an experiment). We’ll collect seeds and then if everything goes to shit over the winter, we’ll live on chard next year…this is my feeble attempt at ‘dark humour’.

    a “Mad Max” scenario?

    I’m no fighter, no survivalist. I don’t foresee this happening, but (you never know) if a desperate horde of armed guys came to my door – “You got food! We want it!” – I’d be like, “Help yourselves, mates, it’s all yours.” And then I’d walk a couple of miles to the lake and go for a nice long swim, or walk up the road and take a nice long sleep in a snowbank.

    Anyway, living in Canada, it seems to me that you and your family have strikingly bigger chances of survival …

    Don’t know and I’m not looking to be the ‘last man standing’ in any case.

    I have a piece of land in the mountains, at around 4000ft elevation. There are patches of very fertile land and a spring nearby. The area receives an immense amount of precipitation – over 120″ yearly. As it is today, climate is too cold for a lot of fruits and veggies to grow…

    I bet it would grow some amazing cabbages and potatoes and onions and carrots. A few chickens for eggs, a milk goat, mushrooms and wild meat – sounds like dinner to me!

    the mountains of Croatia are a home to one of the world’s densest brown bear population (average 2 animals per square mile)…

    We have black bears and very tasty groundhogs.

    I know you said that you are not a “survivalist”. But when I think about possible NTE it’s only naturally for me to start seeing the world in a survivalist “mode” – defining the crucial goods, defining where they can be obtained, defining the safest place to be in the event of the collapse of the civilization…

    Might be an age-difference thing; or temperament or personality

    That desolated mountain is the best answer I’ve got so far.

    Could be better than most…?

  • Sorry if my last post was confusing. I tried to distinguish my words from what Snowstormguy wrote just before me, by indenting what I had to say, but the indent was lost in the move from the comment window.

    How do I italicize, as others do, to show two different voices?

  • @lark

    To italicize, do it this way:


    Leave just any spaces i typed away.

  • Haha, sorry, the spaces have been taking away…

    Do it this way:

    <> Text <>

    Leave the double brackets away, so only one bracket at a time.

  • Damned, the page here formated the texts i wrote:

    Just put in an “i” into the brackets i wrote in the last comment or go here to see how it works:


  • Mark – I admire your doing and what you are living – a conscious mole entering a maze of zombies, the living dead. Joseph K. in the Castle, but aware, conscious. Stan Lee needs to do one about this. I miss the clarity of the old comic books I traded as a kid – the true depiction of the evil ones seeking to rule the world with their henchmen and equally evil scientists. Good luck – my heart is with you. Their eyes are everywhere, but their vision is clouded – they find it impossible to see the truth. They rely on their smokescreen of lies to delude the public, but they are confused by it themselves and constantly run into each other and lose their way. May their own madness and hubris work to defeat them.

    Our world has lost its way just as Nietzsche predicted. When truth, love, goodness, and beauty – which sought refuge in religion, however flawed it often was, were ignored, trashed, twisted ala Orwell – what was left to fill that vacuum? Greed for power and domination, and fascist ideology disguised by many masks were ready to take center stage and boldly push the world to its Gotterdammerung. May God be with you Mark. However we conceive of that highest symbol of ultimate value, it has to be better than the ugly idols so many are worshiping today.

    Lidia – Love

    Curious – What if some of those enlightened lone wolves decided to form a pack? Would their more conscious state enable them to avoid attacking each other? Or would their proud independent
    natures cause them to split, avoiding the difficult task of getting along with others, even those much like themselves? What if they learned to sing together in such a way that their call attracted others who were attuned to that call enough to want to learn more? Have all sharer/teachers of the infinite way been on a fool’s mission? What other hope is there?

    Lark & Snowstorm guy – Plant your garden – no need of a gun for that. Mad Max is just a movie – a cautionary tale if you will – not an infallible prophecy. Love and do as you will. And let the world do what it will – you can’t stop it – but you don’t have to get off until your ticket expires – unless you want to – please don’t – I like having you both on board….