Presentation in Vancouver, British Columbia

I delivered a presentation on the campus of Simon Fraser University on 12 June 2015. The result is embedded below, with big thanks to Brad Hornick, John de Jardin, Robyn Wagoner, and Paul Marcotte.

Seeking to connect with folks in San Francisco (or nearby) to bring Guy to the Bay Area. Please contact amyvegan@gmail.com

Also seeking vegan folks to brainstorm the creation of 100% vegan urban community in or near Portland, Oregon along the light rail line.

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To support my ongoing tour in the Pacific Northwest of the United States and also southwestern Canada, click the donate button below. Alternatively, click here.



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17 June 2015, 5:30 p.m. presentation and discussion, The Royal Room, 5000 Rainier Avenue South, Seattle, Washington (dinner at 5:00 p.m., reservations encouraged)

18 June 2015, 7:00 p.m. presentation and discussion, Public Library, 1270 Madison Avenue North, Bainbridge Island, Washington

19 June 2015, 6:30 p.m. presentation and discussion, King’s Books, 218 St. Helens Avenue, Tacoma, Washington

22 June 2015, 7:00 p.m. presentation and discussion, Traditions Cafe, 300 Fifth Avenue SW, Olympia, Washington

24 June 2015, 3:00 p.m. book-reading and -signing, Tsunami Books, 2585 Willamette Street, Eugene, Oregon

24 June 2015, 7:00 p.m. presentation and discussion, Unitarian Universalist Congregation, 1685 West 13th Avenue, Eugene, Oregon

25 June 2015, 6:00 p.m. presentation and discussion, Community Library, 901 C Street 98660, Vancouver, Washington

26 June 2015, presentation and discussion at a time to be arranged, Portland City Club, 901 SW Washington Street, Portland, Oregon

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Catch Nature Bats Last on the radio with Mike Sliwa and Guy McPherson. To catch us live, tune in every Tuesday at 3:00 p.m. Eastern time, or catch up in the archives here. If you prefer the iTunes version, including the option to subscribe, you can click here.

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Please visit the DONATIONS tab. I’m open to non-monetary donations, subject only to your creativity. For example, I would appreciate your generosity with respect to frequent-flyer miles.

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McPherson’s latest book is co-authored by Carolyn Baker. Extinction Dialogs: How to Live with Death in Mind is available. Electronic copy is available here from Amazon.

Tech note, courtesy of mo flow: Random issues have been appearing with posting comments. Sometimes a “Submit Comment” click will return a 404 Page Not Found, or another error, for no apparent reason. To ensure you don’t lose a longer comment, you can right-click select all, and right-click copy, in the comment box before clicking “Submit.” If that hasn’t been done, the comment text will likely still be in the comment box when clicking the back button, or the forward button — depending on the error — on your browser.

Comments 71

  • @ Chey Hahn

    [Chey Hahn Says:
    June 16th, 2015 at 6:36 pm]

    “So, I know a lot of people and can enjoy their company superficially, but there are precious few (and none in my neighborhood offline) who truly know me or know me much deeper than the level they are used to seeing. That makes me even more grateful for everyone here at NBL, so many, many like minds here.”

    – Reading this brings tears to my eyes. As if you’ve written it for me –

    And I listened to Guy’s 8 minutes on the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation radio, Vancouver. Great time slot. Right before the 8 am news on a Friday morning (June 12, 2015). Lots of people with an open ear to anything related to the environment in Vancouver, where pipelines are the big talk, have been the big talk in the last few years, with Aboriginal people refusing insane amounts of money to let pipelines cross their lands. Dignity. This land is theirs. Was theirs. It has been said that no peace can come again to America until it is given back to its rightful owners. The fascination of Whites (I’m one) for Aboriginal people, as they call themselves in Canada, has been raised several times here. Is it related to guilt, etc. I admit to such fascination, which brought me to read Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee some 30 years ago, and it still haunts me. But maybe it is not only guilt. Maybe we (Whites) feel a longing for a dignity we feel in those people, still present after decades of alcohol and abuse of every kind. They’ve really known the end of the world we are fearing. Not only them of course. Throughout history, countless people, cities, have known indescribable horrors brought by other humans. The end of the world. I just hope that when they see us passing on their land, Aboriginal people will treat us as kindly as they did when we first came and they let us pass, helped the Whites through their first winters in Canada. None would have survived. Thoughts. But a dignity we feel in Aboriginal people, in their culture. A mirror hard to look into, of course. But a reminder. Dignity. All those women Aboriginal community leaders, fighting against big money, impossible odds. Today. I’m glad Guy is visiting there.

    An 8 minute time slot is short for a big message like Guy’s. Every time I hear him in such circumstances – I imagine him entering a studio, coffee is offered, nice people, smiles, cheerfulness – and he comes with doom. How can he muster the courage. And the pace of radio going into weather and traffic, and human extinction squeezed between the two. What a joke. And he has to carry that joke. Chapeau bas! (hats off, I think, is the way to say it in English).

    @ Tom – Thanks for the update on :

    “global average temperature rose to .95 (or .96) degrees C over baseline [as opposed to his oft-quoted .85 C].”

    And for being there.

    @Mike k

    [mike k Says:
    June 16th, 2015 at 3:01 pm June 16th, 2015 at 3:01 pm]

    Mike, I bow down.

    @Robin Datta
    [Robin Datta Says: June 16th, 2015 at 11:52 am]

    Robin, Thank you–

    @mo flow

    [mo flow Says: June 16th, 2015 at 10:08 am]

    mo, praises from you for poetry is beyond my ability to thank.

    So I should use a code phrase instead of trying and trying.

    I should only write:

    @mo flow

    As always–

    So you’d just know that I noticed what you wrote, and that it touched me again, at the same place.

  • Guy, you have spelled out our upcoming extinction in simple language.

    … and it will be abrupt.

    at 4:30; “We are headed for more than a 3 &1/2 degree Centigrade temperature rise above baseline in the very near future, in as little as 18 months.”

    at 26:50; “We are talking about a 5 or 6, or maybe an 11 degree temperature rise, in a span of a decade or two.”

    McPherson’s two statements & predictions are empirical, observational, & testable.

    If his first statement has any scientific predictive power, it will be proven true or false within the short time frame of 18 months.

    If global temperature rises only ONE DEGREE C, in the next 18 months, McPherson’s predictive claims will only be partially falsified in terms of degrees C; but more than enough to deliver us into phantasmagorical climate disruptions, civil chaos, & hell-on-earth.

    Intellectual flapdoodle about quantum indeterminacy or space/time has absolutely nothing to do with our upcoming extinction.

    The Pope can’t stop or make any difference about our abrupt descent into hell-on-earth.

    Claims that global heating can be held to ONLY a 2 DEGREE C rise by establishment public relations propaganda regardless of political persuasion are preposterous nonsense.

    Limiting global heating to a 2 degree C rise is now IMPOSSIBLE.

    Such claims are farcical & an insult to our intelligence.

    There is no way out, around, or through.

    We are going extinct by our own technological excess.

    Geo-engineering cannot save us from extinction.

    “Science is determinism” & we are finished.

    Presentation in Vancouver, British Columbia

  • We are about to get some JUSTICE, some day probably pretty soon, in the Middle East.

    From Black Agenda Radio’s Glen Ford.

    “A Black Agenda Radio commentary by executive editor Glen Ford.”

    ‘The U.S., Saudi Arabia and al Qaida are on the same side in the wars in Syria and Yemen. Indeed, the “international jihadist network owes its very existence to the United States,” which “created the global infrastructure of terror” in Afghanistan in the late 1970s. However, jihadist and imperialist interests are ultimately irreconcilable. In the end, the U.S. will be expelled from the region, and the Saudi royalty will lose their heads.”

  • This is what the Tom Lewis essay The Sophie’s Choice coming to us all was talking about:

    https://rt.com/uk/267562-migrant-crisis-hms-bulwark/

    Britain to scrap Royal Navy rescue operations as Mediterranean migrant crisis escalates

    As EU ministers discuss the world’s most serious refugee crisis since World War II, the British government is set to withdraw its Royal Navy flagship from its role in rescuing thousands of migrants desperately trying to cross the Mediterranean. [more]

    ________

    Scribbler hates when you bring up reality. i hate the way it is too, and wish we could do something about it, but to deny it [or claim that ‘there’s plenty for everyone’] is ridiculous. It’s the same claim i make to those who vehemently disagree with abortion – YOU [the lot of people that feel this way] take them, and remember they are just going to keep coming! Eventually you MUST say ‘enough’ because you cannot support saving them all. It’s one of the reasons i gave up Catholicism.

    [i’m not capable of even saving myself and it’s only prolonging the suffering staying alive for the end of our run, but it is fascinating.]

  • .
    .
    http://io9.com/this-map-reveals-where-our-future-water-wars-will-begin-1591639394
    .
    .
    In February, 2015, homeowners in Modesto were fined $1,500 for allegedly siphoning water from a canal. In a scene reminiscent of the recent post apocalyptic blockbuster “Mad Max: Fury Road,” water bandits in the town of North San Juan stole hundreds of gallons of “aqua cola” from a fire department tank.
    .
    .

  • His wonderful piece Only Love Remains told me where his heart was in all of this.

    for Guy,

  • @ Tom: IMO: Robert M. Fanney’s (Scribbler’s) denial of Hillary Clinton being part and parcel of the U.S. killing machine (i.e. greed infused, psychopathic oligarchy) is comparable to denying AGW.

    And yes, a good part of the time, I hate reality too. Currently I’m in a place where there is a major fish kill. Never seen this here before. Hard to feel better in “nature” when there are thousands of dead fish floating on the shorelines, rotting on the rocks, punctuated by seeing a loon last night near death, gasping on the shore. And this is happening all over the world in various forms (fish kills, sea lion/starfish/sardine deaths etc. etc. etc.)

    Trees are dying everywhere—-whether it’s climate change, invasive species, ozone—–at this point does it matter what the cause is? Death and suffering—- everywhere apparent. It’s ratcheting up folks—-big time.

  • .
    .
    Detroit
    .
    When you do the math, more than 48% of households in Detroit earn less than $25,000 per year (per household!). This is an extremely destitute number and it is likely a big part of the reason so many people here live below the poverty line, suffer from drug abuse and it’s a big part of the reason the city is considered one of the most dangerous in the country.
    .
    Looking forward to war, famine, and pestilence.
    .

    Just sitting on this runaway train, staring out the window, with a cat on my lap.

    The Voluntary Extinction Movement
    “…thou shalt not procreate.”

    The Church of Euthanasia
    “Save the planet, kill yourself.”

  • Just watched your presentation, excellent stuff

    add a bit of my own, this is from a schools program but it illustrates how precious life is

    Martin

  • I dedicate my favorite song in the world to Dr Guy

    Martin

  • In the above presentation Guy refers to David Korowicz and his essay on collapse.There is an interview and the paper in this note and the comment section.
    https://www.facebook.com/notes/kevin-hester/supply-chain-disruption-interview-with-professor-guy-mcpherson-with-embedded-lin/10205713732335254

  • Time is short, & what we do with the time left defines our lives.

    As wise Paul Russell advised us on this blog a short time ago; “When nothing matters, everything matters that much more.”

    Israeli deputy defense minister, Rabbi Eli Ben-Dahan, calls Palestinians, “beasts … & not human.”

    “{Palestinians} are beasts, they are not human.”

    – Deputy defense minister Rabbi Eli Ben-Dahan (“Next head of ‘Civil Administration’ said Palestinians are sub-human,” +972 Magazine, 8 May 2015)

    Video: Shocking words of Israeli leaders read aloud in Irish parliament

  • Gerald ~

    you forgot the link to your source, and also forgot to mention that your source is an Israeli activist news organization called Local Call:

    Local call is the home of activist journalism resulting commitment to democracy, opposition to the occupation and striving for peace, equality, social justice, transparency and freedom of information – but does not serve any political party, political movement or a bed.

    now, I don’t know anything (I swear) about that last part with the bed, but Google translate might be slightly confused there…

    http://972mag.com/next-head-of-civil-administration-said-palestinians-are-sub-human/106533/

    the original article, in Hebrew, is linked from the 972mag.com article. it can (sort of :O) be translated in Chrome.

    it would seem that there really are those, as has been mentioned repeatedly here on NBL, in Israel who vociferously disagree with their government, and who are actively working to publicly expose and oppose both its policies and its general stupidity, which is mentioned in the article repeatedly.

  • We may have tried to reach others and warn them. They, for the most part, didn’t get it. At least we tried.

    Now, when the shit hits the fan, at least we won’t look like the average slobs that twiddled and fiddled and denied, right up to the end. People will ask, “How did you know?” I’m going to wear that like a badge of honor. Nobody else will see it but I’ll know it’s there.

    Sometimes I wonder if deniers deny because they feel, subconsciously, that to accept the truth about climate change and NTE would kill who they see themselves as now, and they are irrationally afraid of that “death”. Would that make denial of climate change relatively on par with the denial reaction associated with knowledge of a terminal medical condition? Could irrational denial on many levels be “normal”? The manipulation of human feelings by TPTB to get what they wanted in spite of the evidence on global heating is the greatest crime in all of human history.

    I’m leaning toward a more compassionate response to the average denier. I still hate those in charge, who manipulated the masses to walk over the cliff.
    I would really like to see them brought to justice.

  • Actually, rather than a _confused” Google translate, Israelis have a long history of regarding Arabs as dogs, and beasts. Haven’t you seen the pictures of checkpoints where even pregnant Palestinian women are made to wait until all the donkeys and dogs pass under the watchful eyes of grinning IDF.

    The IDF had to be scolded for wearing shirts that depicted Palestinian women and children in IDF crosshairs. Surely you remember the one shot – two kills sniper t-shirt with the belly of a pregnant Palestinian woman in the crosshairs.

    Now, they are in trouble for promoting “Rachel Corrie pancakes” in a fundraiser. http://theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2013/07/20/worlds-most-moral-army-israeli-soldiers-have-depraved-fun-making-rachel-corrie-pancakes/

    In 2011 the son of Israeli PM Ariel Sharon (The Butcher of Beirut) wrote of the Palestinian “beasts”

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/142883#.VYH73PlViis

    **Let us not forget with whom we are dealing here. You can take the wild Palestinian beast and put a mask on it, in the form of some fluent English-speaking spokesman. You can also dress it in a three-piece suit and silk tie.

    But every once in a while – during a new moon, or when a crow’s droppings hit a howling jackal, or when its pita with hyssop doesn’t come out just right – the wild beast senses that this is its night, and out of primeval instincts, it sets off to stalk its prey.**

    —————————

    And while there is certainly those in Israel who oppose it’s government slaughter of innocent women and children — much more prevalent are those who would pull up a lawn chair and a cool drink to watch and cheer as their government bombs helpless women and children trapped in the Israeli open air prison known as Gaza.

  • Extinction Denial In Woo Woo Land
    ————————————–

    Even if Guy’s timeline is correct, it doesn’t matter because, in just 10 years, 4 billion people will be without enough water. Do you know what that means? Don’t answer yes, think for a moment.

    Right now, 1 billion people walk a mile each day for water.

    http://www.wateraid.org/us/the-water-story/the-crisis/water

    In 10 years 4 billion people will be without enough water.

    In 10 years 2 billion people will be severely short of water.

    http://www.un.org/waterforlifedecade/scarcity.shtml

    Ground water depletion has gone critical in major agricultural centers worldwide.

    http://mashable.com/2015/06/16/groundwater-aquifers-depleted/

    http://www.worldcrunch.com/world-affairs/take-5-alarming-droughts-around-the-world/droughts-global-warming-water-shortage/c1s19067/#.VYGtolVVikq

    https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-06/uoc–at061615.php

    The world’s rivers and lakes are drying up.

    http://www.worldpreservationfoundation.org/topic.php?cat=climateChange&vid=48#.VYHzqfm4S1s

    http://environment.nationalgeographic.com/environment/photos/rivers-run-dry/#/freshwater-rivers-colorado-1_45140_600x450.jpg

    Drought is spreading across the earth.

    http://www.eldoradocountyweather.com/climate/world-maps/world-drought-risk.html

    In 35 years over 2 billion people will move to cities.

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/world-cities-home-to-most-people-to-add-2-5-billion-more-by-2050/

    75% of the infrastructure they require does not exist.

    http://nextcity.org/daily/entry/75-of-the-infrastructure-that-will-exist-in-2050-doesnt-exist-today

    We passed peak growth-rate for food production in 2006.

    http://www.ecologyandsociety.org/vol19/iss4/art50/

    In 60 years, human agriculture will stop because of soil loss and degradation.

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/only-60-years-of-farming-left-if-soil-degradation-continues/

    We add 1 million more people to earth every 5 days.

    http://www.worldpopulationbalance.org/faq

    We have to grow more food over the next 50 years than we grew in all of the last 10,000 years, combined.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2007/aug/31/climatechange.food

    https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/have-we-reached-peak-food-shortages-loom-as-global-production-rates-slow-10009185.html

    We will need 12 million acres of brand new farmland every year for 30 years to do it.

    We are losing 24 million acres of farmland every year.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/25/treating-soil-like-dirt-fatal-mistake-human-life

    We will run out of easy access to 2 critical fertilizers.

    http://www.nature.com/news/be-persuasive-be-brave-be-arrested-if-necessary-1.11796

    Our crop lands and pastures are to blame for 80% of all recent land vertebrate extinctions says Anthony Barnosky.

    http://www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520274372

    In 20 years we will pass peak energy and minerals.

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959378011001361

    This will happen when all our new solar panels and wind mills stop working and become expensive junk we can’t afford to replace or recycle in times of shortages in water, food, energy, minerals and civility.

    http://energyinformative.org/lifespan-solar-panels/

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960148113005727

    Lots of guns and no food, water or energy makes Johnny a bad bad boy.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1392190/?ref_=fn_al_tt_4

    After all the violence, then the bad news starts.

    In 25 years earth will go into a planetary ecological state shift and enter into runaway, irreversible, unstoppable mass extinction.

    Collapse Data Cheat Sheet from collapse

    Right now, 1 billion people walk a mile each day for water.

    http://www.wateraid.org/us/the-water-story/the-crisis/water

    In 10 years 4 billion people will be without enough water.

    In 10 years 2 billion people will be severely short of water.

    http://www.un.org/waterforlifedecade/scarcity.shtml

    Ground water depletion has gone critical in major agricultural centers worldwide.

    http://mashable.com/2015/06/16/groundwater-aquifers-depleted/

    http://www.worldcrunch.com/world-affairs/take-5-alarming-droughts-around-the-world/droughts-global-warming-water-shortage/c1s19067/#.VYGtolVVikq

    https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-06/uoc–at061615.php

    The world’s rivers and lakes are drying up.

    http://www.worldpreservationfoundation.org/topic.php?cat=climateChange&vid=48#.VYHzqfm4S1s

    http://environment.nationalgeographic.com/environment/photos/rivers-run-dry/#/freshwater-rivers-colorado-1_45140_600x450.jpg

    Drought is spreading across the earth.

    http://www.eldoradocountyweather.com/climate/world-maps/world-drought-risk.html

    In 35 years over 2 billion people will move to cities.

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/world-cities-home-to-most-people-to-add-2-5-billion-more-by-2050/

    75% of the infrastructure they require does not exist.

    http://nextcity.org/daily/entry/75-of-the-infrastructure-that-will-exist-in-2050-doesnt-exist-today

    We passed peak growth-rate for food production in 2006.

    http://www.ecologyandsociety.org/vol19/iss4/art50/

    In 60 years, human agriculture will stop because of soil loss and degradation.

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/only-60-years-of-farming-left-if-soil-degradation-continues/

    We add 1 million more people to earth every 5 days.

    http://www.worldpopulationbalance.org/faq

    We have to grow more food over the next 50 years than we grew in all of the last 10,000 years, combined.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2007/aug/31/climatechange.food

    https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/have-we-reached-peak-food-shortages-loom-as-global-production-rates-slow-10009185.html

    We will need 12 million acres of brand new farmland every year for 30 years to do it.

    We are losing 24 million acres of farmland every year.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/25/treating-soil-like-dirt-fatal-mistake-human-life

    We will run out of easy access to 2 critical fertilizers.

    http://www.nature.com/news/be-persuasive-be-brave-be-arrested-if-necessary-1.11796

    Our crop lands and pastures are to blame for 80% of all recent land vertebrate extinctions says Anthony Barnosky.

    http://www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520274372

    In 20 years we will pass peak energy and minerals.

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959378011001361

    This will happen when all our new solar panels and wind mills stop working and become expensive junk we can’t afford to replace or recycle in times of shortages in water, food, energy, minerals and civility.

    http://energyinformative.org/lifespan-solar-panels/

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960148113005727

    Lots of guns and no food, water or energy makes Johnny a bad bad boy.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1392190/?ref_=fn_al_tt_4

    After all the violence, then the bad news starts.

    In 25 years earth will go into a planetary ecological state shift and enter into runaway, irreversible, unstoppable mass extinction.

    Collapse Data Cheat Sheet from collapse

  • Still – As always, gassho right back atcha! You are one of my favorite teachers here. (Gassho is Japanese for “palms of the hands placed together.” … It signifies that the giver and receiver of the bow are not two. Gassho often accompanies a bow.)

    Sri Robin Datta – A heartfelt gassho to you for quietly sticking to your spiritual guns, in spite of my hair-splitting nit-picking. I am beginning to realize you really know what you are talking about! Usually….

    Mo flo – You are living up to your name – your skilled facilitation has got this river humming along beautifully….. Gassho and a big series of prostrations to you and the One that works through you.

    And a long sonorous OOOOMMMMM for all you parti-colored revelers, mourners, angry as hell folks, witnesses, and wise counselors, and anybody I missed – oh yeah Lurkers – very important category. Bless you all for having the good sense and caring heart to be here.

    Guy M – Great thanks for making this gathering possible – who knows what we can all create together in this unusual extended seminar/party on this very special beach….

    Kirk H – Yes. Better to feel sorry for the average deniers than hating them – helps keep the blood pressure under control. As for their manipulators, I try not to think of what I would really wish for them…

  • Mo flow, Thanks for the video — a nice tribute to life in its immense diversity.

  • @Kirk Hamilton: “Sometimes I wonder if deniers deny because they feel, subconsciously, that to accept the truth about climate change and NTE would kill who they see themselves as now, and they are irrationally afraid of that ‘death.'”

    Oh absolutely. Accepting NTE means facing the devastating truth that we humans brought this upon ourselves. In addition to our own demise (as a species), our greed and stupidity will result in the near term extinction of just about every other life form on this planet. There’s nothing redeeming in this story (unless you happen to be a bacterium).

  • Today in Alabama, we recorded 97 degrees at 3:17 and a feel like it of 107.

  • Get a few of these for after raccoons poop in your pool and it turns green, LOL!

  • This presentation is serious and powerful. One of the best in a long time. Most informative and able to communicate the critical points concisely. And, incidentally I might add, takes psychological skill and physical fortitude not to break down and pass out over the sheer magnitude of the narrative.

    One guy who saw the presentation posted on the youtube page for the SFU talk that he was having a real hard time. Feeling separated from his family and sure now that he’ll be labeled a kook and get ostracized. I think it’s so horrible and tragic. I can sympathize completely.

    — In all fairness, the military in Thailand performed a ritual oblation to the rain god at the site of one of the major dams. And it did rain for about 20 minutes yesterday, and about 1 hour today. Maybe they can try that in Australia, or up at Lake Powell, or in the Sierra Snow pack. Meanwhile my friend in Austin Texas is completely drowned out.

    — Donald J. Trump Verified account @realDonaldTrump
    “The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive.”

  • Regarding deniers, here’s a useful piece of information from Myers-Briggs, which bears on what Tom Murphy of “Do the Math” noticed in his recent blog.

    The second pair of psychological preferences is Sensing and Intuition. Do you pay more attention to information that comes in through your five senses (Sensing), or do you pay more attention to the patterns and possibilities that you see in the information you receive (Intuition)?

    Everyone spends some time Sensing and some time using Intuition. Don’t confuse Sensing with sensual. They aren’t related.

    Take a minute to ask yourself which of the following descriptions seems more natural, effortless, and comfortable for you?

    Sensing (S)

    Paying attention to physical reality, what I see, hear, touch, taste, and smell. I’m concerned with what is actual, present, current, and real. I notice facts and I remember details that are important to me. I like to see the practical use of things and learn best when I see how to use what I’m learning. Experience speaks to me louder than words.

    The following statements generally apply to me:
    · I remember events as snapshots of what actually happened.
    · I solve problems by working through facts until I understand the problem.
    · I am pragmatic and look to the “bottom line.”
    · I start with facts and then form a big picture.
    · I trust experience first and trust words and symbols less.
    · Sometimes I pay so much attention to facts, either present or past, that I miss new possibilities.

    Intuition (N)

    Paying the most attention to impressions or the meaning and patterns of the information I get. I would rather learn by thinking a problem through than by hands-on experience. I’m interested in new things and what might be possible, so that I think more about the future than the past. I like to work with symbols or abstract theories, even if I don’t know how I will use them. I remember events more as an impression of what it was like than as actual facts or details of what happened.

    The following statements generally apply to me:

    · I remember events by what I read “between the lines” about their meaning.
    · I solve problems by leaping between different ideas and possibilities.
    · I am interested in doing things that are new and different.
    · I like to see the big picture, then to find out the facts.
    · I trust impressions, symbols, and metaphors more than what I actually experienced
    · Sometimes I think so much about new possibilities that I never look at how to make them a reality.

    Sensing types aren’t wired to understand what we are saying, which is based entirely on an Intuitive’s mental skill at pattern recognition and reading between the lines.

    Over 70% of the human population is made up of S types. They can’t hear us.

  • “Eventually you MUST say ‘enough’ because you cannot support saving them all.”

    But of course. The third phase of the ever-repeating cosmic cycle: manifestation, maintenance and de-manifestation, or if one prefers, Creation, Sustenance and Dissolution. Personified as Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva in the Vedic tradition, but adapted to derivative traditions including Jainism and Buddhism in different forms.

    If one develops attachment (= attraction or aversion), tradition has it that that will bind one fast to the ever-repeating cosmic cycle. That is why the correlates of aversion such as anger and hatred are to be damped down and extinguished. This is also true of the correlates of attraction, such as elation and desire.

    Imagine going through a million episodes of having a front row seat at the extinction of one’s species. Most people would think that one such episode is more than enough.

    “sticking to your spiritual guns”

    Spiritual bottles. Anyone who perceives that outside of bottles, some things are spiritual and other things non-spiritual, misperceives.

    The river is not equal to the ocean until it meets the ocean. After that salutations among such realised are for the benefit of the yet-to-be realised. It is the subordinate (or, among the realised, the apparent subordinate) who initiates the salutation.

  • The Vancouver sound system was not as good as some of the others.

  • I told you so. Happened last night. (Virtual black out on the MSM.
    They are scared to death what it might trigger.)

    The South is full of white extreme racists, bigots and fake Christians.  Yes, there will be a time in the very near future when scary white men disguised in sheets will roam the streets of the South in gangs killing as many blacks as they can find because, of course, all of our troubles are BECAUSE of black, lazy, job stealin’, welfare cheats, AND, in the name of Jesus Christ.  I have predicted this for years because it will come true.

    This act proves it.  These angry people will stop at nothing because they are bereft of souls. It is a repeat of the American Indian slaughter by greedy white people, and there are millions of them, with more guns and ammo than you can imagine. This is “THEIR” country.

    http://www.ajc.com/ap/ap/top-news/shooting-in-downtown-charleston-south-carolina/nmfrT/

  • Shep,

    You have been warning people about this for some time. Maybe they can hear you now. Maybe not.

  • Dear Shep,

    Take good care of yourself and your family.

    The fascist element is raising its ugly head everywhere once again. It only went underground for political correctness. It’s been brought to the surface once more by our basically unchanged (white) political strategies and the cowardly, expedient media, populist or otherwise. How I hate them!

    I’m looking with horror at what’s happening. But…

    ..the spectre of the “frightening dark stranger” in his new guise as lazy, job-stealing welfare cheat has been popularized over here too, by politicians and the media, everywhere in “white culture”.

    Here in Europe “foreigners and migrants” are branded in this way. It’s been done deliberately, of that I’m sure. Partly, in order to divide and rule. After all, the elites can’t have ordinary people, who nearly all live precarious lives now because of their neo-liberal economics, coming together in solidarity. It’s in their interest to sow hate and fear.

    I’m angry and ashamed but I’ll be thinking of you…good thoughts.

  • A gloom & doom empirical fact just posted at Robert Scribber.

    No Jungian archetypes, dream analysis, calls for mind change, or psychological speculations about an extroverted/introverted ice man cometh not.

    Arctic Sea Ice lost 320,000 km2 in one day.

    A 100,000km2 melt was the former gigantic melt standard for a day.

    If such gigantic melts become routine, we will have an ice free Arctic by September.

  • shep:

    Well, at least the police & FBI identified and arrested the perp.

    Apparently there was another shooting someplace else at the same time, but there were no victims fortunately:

    Shots fired into Tennessee church on same night as Charleston shooting

    http://www.sott.net/article/297950-Shots-fired-into-Tennessee-church-on-same-night-as-Charleston-shooting

  • The official picture of the suspect in Charleston shooting is hitting the medias around the world. But who in this picture sees in the background that all the trees are dead?

    All the trees are dead
    and the life is o’er…

  • shep: I’m much more concerned with the water table dropping world-wide, all the recent volcanic activity, the prospect of both abrupt climate change (toward the hot side and more destructive storms) and sea level rise, combined with the food shortages and disease that will kill most if not all life on Earth than with random acts of violence. Nuclear war may end up being a blessing (wait, . . what?).

  • .
    .

    Looking forward to war, famine, and pestilence.
    .

    Just sitting on this runaway train, staring out the window, with a cat on my lap.

    The Voluntary Extinction Movement
    “…thou shalt not procreate.”

    The Church of Euthanasia
    “Save the planet, kill yourself.”

  • @ Wern or whoever else is interested

    On the last thread, you asked–and sort of answered—a very interesting question: “Is there a connection between personality types and the willingness to accept the nte situation we now find ourselves in?”

    Here! Here!

    Aside from the observation that we are all just wired differently from birth, which obviously has much to do with how/why some of us are willing to accept NTE more than others. I think there might be at least two other queries that could get us a little closer to the heart of it, and both have to do with the concept of ‘hope’.

    The first: Is there a personality type that is more inclined to internalizing disturbing news?

    Because as Paul just pointed out that pattern recognition is key, NTE straddles a massive boundary between being able to intellectualize a sequence of events, and being able to emotionally internalize the consequence of those events.

    While I believe that different personality types naturally gravitating towards different inclinations to be rather self-evident, I believe that there is a far greater force at work where it concerns one’s ability to live with a high degree of brutal truth, which in my opinion, might have more to do with a particular lived experience, namely, ‘trauma’.

    It would be interesting to see if a majority of those who are inclined towards accepting NTE, experienced a high degree of trauma in their childhoods, which opened their eyes to the reality that things aren’t quite like we were led to believe; something that derailed their early worldview, which forced them to differentiate between what they were being told, and what they say for themselves.

    The second, is just good old self-preservation at work: A provider has to provide. I call it the ‘tyranny of immediate needs’. Meaning, does an individual have dependents for which they ‘must’ remain hopeful and productive?

    If they do, then the very personality traits that led them to believe that it was acceptable to have children in light of a half century of ecological destruction to the contrary, is in my not so humble opinion, the very absence of critical thinking preventing them from accepting NTE today. And the vast majority of people have children. Which is why the majority of those who can live with NTE, are either gray haired or childless (and of course there are always exceptions, and NBL has a few).

    If an adult does NOT have children, they will simply be at an enormous advantage in having the emotional freedom to abandon the palliative hope that precedes such dire acceptance.

    I say this, because after having been steeped in the concept of collapse with all the privilege a person needs to dedicate themselves to study, having had far more conversations than I can remember, having penned thousands of pages on the subject, all the while haranguing practically every person I’ve known to the point of annoyance for decades. I believe being able to internalize a brutal truth such as NTE, at the end of the day, all comes down to whether a person needs to live a hopeful life………for whatever reason.

    If they do, then NTE will most likely never cross their radar. If they don’t, then they’ve probably seen this coming for a very long time.

  • – Mike K and mo flow,

    I’m posting a long thing in the “closed” thread “The Best Possible of All Worlds”. So, 2 threads upstream or so. Because it is long what I post. My take on Osho, since he has come up in conversations with Mike and mo flow.

    – Mike
    gassho!

    – Wester

    “This presentation is serious and powerful. One of the best in a long time.”

    I haven’t watched it yet, but after reading your comment I’ll make sure I come back. And I’ll come back to that thread because too many posts I just skimmed over quickly.

    Same thing for the “first closed thread” (Edge of Extinction: Faster than Expected) — I have to come back to it. I haven’t read the last 15 or 20 posts of it. Tonight.

    Love (why not?)

    Still

    – I’ll come back here as soon as I can to read more about what Shep writes.

  • Daniel – I find your ideas about psychological predispositions re: NTE plausible to a degree, but I think that there are a lot of other vectors that contribute to why people entertain their particular stances towards our possible near term extinction. Confining my attention to America, people here have a lot of reasons to be skeptical about forecasts like that. The recent fizzle of the Y2K prophesy (that non-event was so non-memorable I’m not even sure now if I have named it correctly!) and the widely touted Mayan calendar apocalypse just to name two, has given folks reason to brush off other portents and predictions of doom. Not wanting to have the unpleasant tag of Doomer affixed to oneself is reason enough to avoid giving such thoughts any credence for many socially conscious folks. Being told that scientific evidence supports NTE is not going to mean much to many, because they don’t understand science well enough to look at such evidence, and besides the MSM has told them that “scientists” are not mainly on board with it – which happens to be true.

    Perhaps the simplest reason that people don’t want to hear about NTE is that it is unpleasant, and disturbs their comparatively rosy outlook. We Americans are addicted to our comforts. Another factor is most people feel that even if it was true, there is nothing they can do about it – which Guy more or less agrees with – so why should they bother thinking about it and upsetting everyone about something inevitable? Most people live in a dream world today, what Derrick Jensen called a culture of make-believe. They are not comfortable with acknowledging that, and will react negatively towards anyone who implies that their fantasy-life is actually mostly a lie. This reminds me that the American public is largely dirt ignorant having been relentlessly conditioned by an education that is mostly propaganda mixed with irrelevance, and has nothing to do with teaching them to think independently, creatively, and critically. How can you expect these folks to process something – NTE – which is challenging, difficult, and unpleasant? We just aint gonna do it.
    One more obstacle – selfish greedy egotism – basically “what’s in it for me to buy into NTE?” Also despite our pretensions to individualism, we Mercans are really dedicated conformists. If my crowd is not into NTE then neither am I. There are so many more reasons for our antipathy to and inability to grok NTE….I won’t waste any more ink enumerating them….

  • Pope’s message

    Critique of modern life

    The humble invitation belies the damning analysis of modern life contained in the 184-page encyclical, entitled “Laudato Si.” The archaic Italian phrase, which means “Goodbye assholes,” appears in the “Canticle of the Sun,” a song penned by St. Francis, the patron saint of ecology.

  • Pope Rob’s Just Fuckin’ Witcha!

    Watch this important video on coupled feedbacks and irreversible stratospheric changes.

    Coupled climate feedbacks will combine with irreversible, unstoppable food, water, soil and biodiversity loss that will start in 20 years. This cascading collapse is the biological version of 911 — the destruction of the crucial inner-underpinning supports of life itself on earth.

    In ten years we will all fight for food and water on a scale never imagined. In 20 years, unstoppable, irreversible mass extinction will start. Our renewable energy systems stop working as they reach the end of their life-cycle becoming garbage in a time of shortages. We will have no food, no water, no energy, no peace.

    It begins here:

    Right now, 1 billion people walk a mile each day for water.

    http://www.wateraid.org/us/the-water-story/the-crisis/water

    In 10 years 4 billion people will be without enough water.

    In 10 years 2 billion people will be severely short of water.

    http://www.un.org/waterforlifedecade/scarcity.shtml

    Ground water depletion has gone critical in major agricultural centers worldwide.

    http://mashable.com/2015/06/16/groundwater-aquifers-depleted/

    http://www.worldcrunch.com/world-affairs/take-5-alarming-droughts-around-the-world/droughts-global-warming-water-shortage/c1s19067/#.VYGtolVVikq

    https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-06/uoc–at061615.php

    The world’s rivers and lakes are drying up.

    http://www.worldpreservationfoundation.org/topic.php?cat=climateChange&vid=48#.VYHzqfm4S1s

    http://environment.nationalgeographic.com/environment/photos/rivers-run-dry/#/freshwater-rivers-colorado-1_45140_600x450.jpg

    Drought is spreading across the earth.

    http://www.eldoradocountyweather.com/climate/world-maps/world-drought-risk.html

    In 35 years over 2 billion people will move to cities.

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/world-cities-home-to-most-people-to-add-2-5-billion-more-by-2050/

    75% of the infrastructure they require does not exist.

    http://nextcity.org/daily/entry/75-of-the-infrastructure-that-will-exist-in-2050-doesnt-exist-today

    We passed peak growth-rate for food production in 2006.

    http://www.ecologyandsociety.org/vol19/iss4/art50/

    In 60 years, human agriculture will stop because of soil loss and degradation.

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/only-60-years-of-farming-left-if-soil-degradation-continues/

    We add 1 million more people to earth every 5 days.

    http://www.worldpopulationbalance.org/faq

    We have to grow more food over the next 50 years than we grew in all of the last 10,000 years, combined.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2007/aug/31/climatechange.food

    https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/have-we-reached-peak-food-shortages-loom-as-global-production-rates-slow-10009185.html

    We will need 12 million acres of brand new farmland every year for 30 years to do it.

    We are losing 24 million acres of farmland every year.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/25/treating-soil-like-dirt-fatal-mistake-human-life

    We will run out of easy access to 2 critical fertilizers.

    http://www.nature.com/news/be-persuasive-be-brave-be-arrested-if-necessary-1.11796

    Our crop lands and pastures are to blame for 80% of all recent land vertebrate extinctions says Anthony Barnosky.

    http://www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520274372

    In 20 years we will pass peak energy and minerals.

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959378011001361

    This will happen when all our new solar panels and wind mills stop working and become expensive junk we can’t afford to replace or recycle in times of shortages in water, food, energy, minerals and civility.

    http://energyinformative.org/lifespan-solar-panels/

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960148113005727

    Lots of guns and no food, water or energy makes Johnny a bad bad boy.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1392190/?ref_=fn_al_tt_4

    After all the violence, then the bad news starts.

    In 25 years earth will go into a planetary ecological state shift and enter into runaway, irreversible, unstoppable mass extinction.

    To aggravate matters, magnetic pole flip could expose vast areas of geography to radiation burning for hundreds of years.

    http://www.livescience.com/48333-magnetic-field-flip-within-100-years.html

    It ends here:
    http://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/38y68p/global_warming_is_only_the_tip_of_the_iceberg/

  • Still, I read your Osho epic. It feels right to me. My exposure to Osho was light and second-hand. My first wife became a Rajneesh devotee in about 1978, but was never in his presence. The only teacher I’ve had, a man I worked with off and on from 2007 to 2010, was a sannyasin at the Ranch. He taught us active meditation, and told all the stories with such love.

    The impression I got from those two people and from reading some (not many) of Osho’s books is that he was the real deal. Unfortunately, the “real deal” for someone like Osho looks nothing like the stereotypes. And “crazy wisdom” leaves its teachers with plenty of gnarly bits that the powers that be can grab onto, and use to bring them to the mat.

    I suspect that like a plane crash, Osho’s crash had many contributing factors, and even those that looked like personal failings can be seen in an entirely different light if one takes a single step sideways. The world lost a unique and precious gem when he left.

  • I’m definitely wired to accept NTE. As a child I was inconsolable upon hearing that the Sun would run out of energy, until my parents assured me that the event was so far in the future humans didn’t need to worry about it. Nonetheless, I still ruminated about all the *other* ways we could go extinct, and instinctively felt it would occur during the course of my lifetime (80 year span from my birth in 1968). Of course, I didn’t know it at the time (it was the 70s), but climate change will be our undoing.

    That is unless something else gets us first – nuclear annihilation, giant astroid, alien invasion, super virus, etc.

    And no… I don’t have children.

  • One has to wonder what’re ally happened in the Charleston, South Carolina church massacre. Turns out in late news that the suspect Dylan Roof had been arrested recently after hanging out around a nearby mall and asking questions about the employees, store schedule, etc., dressed in all-black. It’s as if he was trying to draw attention to himself, create a profile. This is what Leer Harvey Oswald allegedly did before the JKF assassination, and what the “9/11 hijackers” did as well, going to bars, getting into fights, bragging about how they’ll be known for something big in the near future. Is it impossible that an ongoing intelligence apparatus project picks up on vulnerable individuals and trains them to commit acts which are likely to boost social turmoil and unrest?!!!]

    Not at all underestimating how much racism there is in South Carolina or indeed even in the most “progressive” parts of the US. I sued to work for a couple of academic programs at UC Berkeley which were involved with affirmative action, and heard countless stories of Berkeley police stopping some of our students, engineering majors, for walking around in jeans with backpacks, for one thing. And i noticed getting some really unfriendly looks when walking around with the couple of black women i dated. Just saying that the more i kook about this event, the stranger it sounds.

  • Still, mo – I posted a response to your Osho piece on the thread below. Mo – is the 2 post rule 2 per day or two per thread? Seems like I’ve seen it both ways…

  • mike, the two post rule applies to the current thread only (as you know) and is two per day in the current thread. all previous threads are unlimited as long as they are open for posting.

  • Interprehing Experience: drawing the correct conclusions

    15th anniversary talk at the Arsha Bodha Center, Somerset, New Jersey: ~59 mins.

    “Is the Universe friendly? Another question that occurs to me is: Is the Universe intelligent, possibly vastly more than we are? And if so, is there a way we could get in touch with some of that wisdom? Are there certain criteria for gaining access to that – and how could we satisfy them? Answers to these questions might require a certain way, depth, and commitment in asking them….”

    When one is ready for the answers, both the questions and the answers fall away like leaves is autumn.

    “Would a respectful silence and awareness of your own fundamental flawedness and ignorance be an appropriate posture, like prostrating before an awesome vastness beyond your understanding?”

    In non-theistic traditions, there is nothing to be flawed in the untversal thusness/suchness; even ignorance is delusory, a mirage.

  • Tom says:

    “shep: I’m much more concerned with the water table dropping world-wide, all the recent volcanic activity, the prospect of both abrupt climate change (toward the hot side and more destructive storms) and sea level rise, combined with the food shortages and disease that will kill most if not all life on Earth than with random acts of violence. Nuclear war may end up being a blessing (wait, . . what?).”

    But the same thinking that causes hate crimes causes the kinds of destruction you describe.

    I take it that Guy’s message is to live a life of excellence, doing no harm, and being decent to others (regardless of who those others are, and including animals and black people). I don’t see the requirement to distinguish between genocidal and ecocidal behavior. If you listened to the pope’s message, you’d see that even religious people are capable of understanding the relationship between the two.

    Dismissing the horror of genocided people in the name of caring for the earth is an excellent formula for alienating the very large number of the earth’s people who are under direct attack NOW. Alienating and divisive ways of thinking is one very good reason for why we face extinction.

  • Artleads: you’re reading too much into what i said – i’m not dismissing those killings or any other random acts of violence by idiotic humans incapable of feeling love for others, okay? i’m only pointing out that even the brutality in Ukraine and Gaza will pale in comparison to these natural phenomena – and remember the Earth doesn’t care how many humans live or die, it’s just doing what it does – reacting to all the CO2 and CH4 we’re continually dumping into the atmosphere.

    It’s only humanity that cares about humanity – we obviously don’t give a collective SHIT about the environment – just look around at the mess we’ve made! So, if we’re all dying via ecocide and climate change in the near future, quibbling over who dies when is pointless.

    Human thinking is fabricated nonsense, and even our vaunted science has, in the end, lead to our demise – so trying to take issue with psychopathic behavior, genocide, or any other insane human activity (when ALL of it is insane) is moot, imho.

    Salmon-killing parasite is thriving in California drought – Massive die-off of young Chinook salmon could happen anytime now

    http://www.desdemonadespair.net/2015/06/salmon-killing-parasite-is-thriving-in.html

    How is any human death more or less relevant or important than this example, Artleads?

  • Here’s another example for you Artleads:

    UN says S.Sudan children raped, castrated, thrown into fires

    http://news.yahoo.com/un-says-sudan-children-raped-castrated-thrown-fires-110233068.html

    [warring factions are the culprit here]

  • Tom – don’t lose sight of the fact that MSM is spoon feeding us lies – especially in the US and Europe. So much so that it has become nearly impossible to separate fact from fiction.

    The MSM isn’t a collection of news from around the world – it is carefully orchestrated – with nearly all stories written to serve a false narrative. The UN is under the US thumb – so will lie to please its masters.

    Remember the lie that preceded us slaughtering a million folks and taking Iraq’s oil?? Kuwaiti babies thrown from their incubators by those evil Iraqi monsters??

    Well, seeing that South Sudan has the third-largest oil reserves in Sub-Saharan Africa, this **news** from the UN sounds suspiciously like the Kuwait incubator lie.

  • After my posting on Osho –

    – Paul Chefurka – thank you for your words. It’s a beautiful, sensitive post – yours. Kindness seems to glow from it.
    Later, a few minutes later, I felt like reading your post again. Why. Because of that glow. I wanted to understand what gave it that glow. I read again. Felt something fatherly, something very kind. And then I noticed – no barbs in that message. Nothing to hurt, just caring.

    – Mike K – I haven’t played basketball in decades, but I’d love to take it up again with you! Some people you feel like sitting and talking, or doing a job together, fixing a door. With you I’d walk as fast as our legs would take us in a field, green grass all around. As dogs let loose. Playing with a ball, exhausting ourselves – might not take long! Go canoeing, which I haven’t done in a long time. When I was around thirteen, my father took me with him on a contract in the bush, way up north. (It’s his birthday today, I’ll call him this morning.) Took us in the Abitibi region, then little planes, a camp on a lake. Only lakes you see when flying, as much water as land. Workers’ camp. Whites, Indians with a a thick fir branches mattress covering the ground in their tents. Going to where they were doing the surveys was by canoe. I was invited to sit between two Indians, probably from that region. Sat in the middle. I was so happy. I’ll ask him to show me again, because he was in another canoe, and he had a camera and filmed – me with my red cap, not paddling, just enjoying the show. A guest. The canoe gently lifting every few seconds and falling back, never slowing nor accelerating. Smooth. Rhythm. Born to it, those two Indians. Like a horse going at an easy gait. Not a word, just the sound of the water gliding under the canoe.

    — —

    I read your comment about my “epic”:

    “Sorry I stepped on your toes so to speak re: Osho.” [part of your feedback to me in the “closed but open” thread “The Best Possible of all Worlds”]

    – It’s all about me. You know… you are one of the people best placed to understand this is all about me. I’m at the center, facing my fears. Others are situations, create situations, to which I can either react by jumping at the periphery and blaming them, attacking them and so on, avoiding, escaping. Or I can stay at the center and watch what’s happening with me when this situation is presented. Sounds easy, but I found it f*** tough and it’s only in the very recent times that this lesson, that I tried to integrate for decades, has finally taken roots. As an AA, you know I am responsible, all faults are mine, all the stuff was in a mirror. You showed it to me. I could blame you. I could ask, “Why are you showing this to me, are you coming from ignorance, are you coming from hate, why you do this to me?” What’s the point. As the situation unfolds you are also in your own mirror and if any of those questions needs an answer to you from you, you’ll take care of it. Now, or in time. My concern is the mirror *I*’m dealing with, created through interactions with others, of course. So yes, at times I felt insulted, the heat inside, I even had started a reply… but noticing the heat, the anger, I knew I was just reacting and jumping to the periphery. Throwing responsibility on the others.

    When I thanked you, Mike, it was not to be nice. I felt the pain of having looked in that mirror. But also the joy… once the courage to take in the pain had been accepted.
    Once I went from line 1 to line 2 of this (from my post on Osho):

    “This is so shameful.
    I have no problem with that.
    I’m ready to look in that mirror.”

    At that moment, in that positive spirit, supported by the “group,” the spirit of the group, the “Elders,” let’s say, I could go automatically from step 1 to step 2.

    Well, at times, it took me 20 years, or 30, for the same step…

    So…

    I feel the shame, it is mine, I’m ready to acknowledge. AND ready to move on, not to dwell on it and beat myself on the head for it. Main thing. Because then I would be giving strength to what pulls me down inside, giving juice to my own regressions, to my own tencencies to regress… into childhood frustrations and such. So, I try to feed the positive, and to be indifferent to the negative, so as not to give it strength.

    In this particular circumstances, it was possible. Because of outside and inside factors. My meditation, that of the group, the no-bullshit spirit of the group. Your input personally. That of mo flow. Guy’s attitude, and so much. Osho.

    So… by thanking you, I’m not saying I owe this insight to you either. I take responsibility for it. But your role needed to be acknowledged. I needed to tell you… that I held no grudge in any form, and that I was thankful to you. The thankfulness included you. But was not just addressed to you. It became… a feeling, in… I went out on the balcony the day before I wrote that, late at night. Took a breath. I had tried to answer and had felt the heat of anger, so I had deleted the beginning of answer, wiped it out and gone to sleep, and meditated. I had decided to just forget about it for now, and that if an answer was to come, it would have to come by itself, and from a positive state. No compromise on that. No more throwing responsibility. I’ve done enough of that in my life.

    On the balcony, by myself in the night, I felt just tremendous peace tingling, or almost tingling in my chest area. Peace. Bathing in it. Thankfulness. Now that I had dropped any action motivated by anger, I had become again a master… of my world… A feeling of peace came. I stayed outside a long time.

    In the morning, yesterday, felt kind of a headache as soon as I thought about this… so stopped thinking about it. And I knew that even if tired, I wanted to answer. The commitment was made, and the positive spirit was there. The fear showed itself as tension and headache. I refused to invite it, to keep it as a guest. It is not. It should not be my master. I’m a master of this space that is mine. Some thoughts are not invited, some are. Some are pushed away, but mostly, mostly, this is done by not pushing them away, and rather by just not giving them juice.

    I wrote the whole thing spontaneously, luckily I type with all fingers, so I just watched the screen as I answered because I knew I did not want to reread the thing before posting.
    And it was pure improvisation, no notes, no knowledge of where I was going. Just taking the things one after the other. There was no problem with spontaneity because I knew that I was coming from a positive space, that of caring, love, concern for truth and people, being part of life. Just… I knew there was no “I’ll get you” inside, no heat of anger. So I could write steady for more than 3 hours as quickly, even quicker than I type this one. And this one I came back to correct, insert, improve. Not yesterday.

    I’ll read again your beautiful feedback. I had to read it too quickly because I’ve got to run. Tonight again.

    (….) Let’s play basketball!

  • You might think that changing the mission of a flagship public university would be an issue put up for public discussion. Not in Wisconsin.

    Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker submitted a budget proposal that included language that would have changed the century-old mission of the University of Wisconsin system — known as the Wisconsin Idea and embedded in the state code — by removing words that commanded the university to “search for truth” and “improve the human condition” and replacing them with “meet the state’s workforce needs.”

    Walker, in a budget speech given earlier this week, didn’t bother to mention the change, which is more than a simple issue of semantics. There is a national debate about what the role of colleges and universities should be.

    One group, including Walker, see higher education in big part as a training ground for workers in the American workplace; another sees college education as a way to broaden the minds of young people and teach them how to be active, productive citizens of the country.

    Mo, no need for translation from Hebrew – just highlight & click.

    How Gov. Walker tried to quietly change the mission of the University of Wisconsin

  • I’ve posted a new EoE episode. It’s here.

  • June 19th, 2015 at 8:06 am
    Guy posted a new EoE episode. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTksvj6Q22g

  • Hi Tom,

    With due and genuine respect, I must say that I’m puzzled by your response.

    “How is any human death more or less relevant or important than this example, Artleads?”

    I thought that was my point. If you distinguish environmental collapse from genocide (such as justifiably predicted by Shep), what you’re saying is that environmental collapse is what matters overwhelmingly, while the genocide is a sort of non-issue within that context. I’m saying (as you imply in that sentence above) that there is no reason to differentiate between them.

    What I take away from your distinguishing between them is that you dismiss resistance. I hear you that resistance, although Hedges and McPherson subscribe to it, is nonetheless futile. I’m not arguing with you there. But I think decency is required, despite over all futility.
    I also grant you that most people facing genocide don’t understand the bigger issues of extinction. That is not their fault. They didn’t cause it, and those who did have not seen fit to inform them, much less to treat them decently.

    So you say, oh well, your suffering is *relatively* unimportant–and it won’t go unnoticed that while supposedly waiting on the beach of doom, you have a considerable comfort and freedom from genocide yourself. This is certainly not a strategy for resistance. Even though *you* personally don’t look at it this way, the message comes across that you’re a privileged white man bolstered by institutional privilege and oblivious to the suffering of those not so blessed. I assure you, that does not get you allies for resistance. So, I only offer this in case you haven’t considered the implications of what you said. It implies that you are against resistance, for just one thing. But does it also bring into question all this love and compassion that we’re supposed to show each other on the beach of doom?

  • .
    .
    .

    The number of overdose deaths increased in 26 states in the four years to 2013, the study found, and decreased in only six states.

    Drug overdose deaths exceeded motor vehicle-related fatalities in 36 states, it said.

    Injuries, including car crashes, homicides, suicides and traumatic brain injury, resulted in nearly 193,000 deaths and are the leading cause of death for Americans ages one to 44, the report said.

    The Voluntary Extinction Movement
    “…thou shalt not procreate.”

    The Church of Euthanasia
    “Save the planet, kill yourself.”

  • i don’t know, Artleads. i guess our focus is a little different, is all.
    i’m not here to argue with you about the finer points of our personal distinguishing how awful this whole experience is. It’s all bad – from going to work in the morning to doing anything at all beside sitting still and our civilization grinds away at the planet. These varying, distinguishing ways of dying, when we’re all playing our parts in the big machine, amount to some sort of sliding scale of awfulness awareness. It is not implying i go along with this set of arrangements, i’m reflecting on how it is. If you disagree, so be it my friend. Life goes on til it doesn’t.

  • I appreciate what you say, Tom, even if we disagree.

    I guess I’ve had no choice here. I come from a highly stratified and hierarchical society in which my kind were very privileged relative to the majority. We were profoundly conditioned not to consider that majority as people. We did, said and thought horrible things about them. We were after all, a buffer group serving the interests of the rulers. Fortunately for me, I was a misfit within my group, and I’ve worked like the blazes to rebel against it. With very limited results. I doubt that I’ll ever get this sense of superiority and specialness out of my system, despite all my lifelong efforts to do so. So what’s left? To follow Guy’s advice. To do no harm. To get out of he way where I would otherwise be hurtful or obstructive. So I apologize if I sound like I’m being better-than-thou. I am not. Anyway, best wishes to you.

  • Anyone ever hear of the Wichita Massacre? How about Jesse William Dirkhising??

    Anyone ever investigate the premise raised by Colin Flaherty in “White Girl Bleeds a Lot” or “Don’t Make the Black Kids Angry” ?

    Do we believe certain narratives because they fit our perception? A perception painted for us by liars and psychopaths?

    Calling one act of a mentally ill maniac genocide while we glaze over the elephant will not lead to a solution, IMHO.

  • Thank you, Shep and Artleads. I very much agree with you – the sense of entitlement that European-based cultures and white people in them operate under is at the heart of all of it. The destruction and violence and killing cannot be divided up as though one aspect is more or less important than any other. Because one can happen, any one of them – racism, genocide, land theft, slavery – all of them happen. And the fact that the entire Earth has now become the ultimate victim, it is only a reflection of our continuing on the same path we have been on for a very, very long time.

    And people who disagree with that path, like the Native Americans, are exterminated, like the Native Americans. But that is what this culture does, it exterminates anything it doesn’t like or disagrees with, including lakes, mountains, animals, in fact, everything it touches, as my great-great-uncle Neilly told me.

    The pope nailed a lot of it in his encyclical, as does Guy.

    We are not entitled to destroy the earth and the life on it. But, it is assumed that our human right to get anything we want as long as we aren’t Hitler or Charles Manson, is plain stupid, crazy and mean.

    There is no difference between slavery, our viciously racist society, the genocide of the American Indians, and the treatment of the poor within our own cultures are all manifestations of one single thing.

    And at its heart is a culturally accepted sense of entitlement that few white people are aware even exists. Even so, it is the unspoken basis that justifies all the rest of their very fucked up thinking.

    I think scientists are among the most entitled of the bunch too often. The loved the pope’s comment about that, that we revere technology and knowledge, and proclaim then neutral when they are not. Because humans use them. Anything that humans use cannot be inherently neutral. So often we hear, if only the average person understood “science” more. They mean white, European science, not indigenous American science, which surpassed their own science by a factor of hundreds if not thousands at the time of Columbus and for a couple more centuries after.

    The average person doesn’t need to understand science more, any more than the average person needs to understand the chemical composition of Neptune or see pictures of it, as interesting as it all may be.

    Humans, and especially humans in European cultures, keep trying to have more of everything to support their ideology of the ideal that will surely happen soon, and in their attempt to neutralize the blowback from the consequences of the things they destroy . If we only keep on, eventually everyone will “have a better world.” It all needs more study and research, don’t you know.

    We keep thinking that we can have things that don’t exist, like “responsible drilling” of oil, if we only kill enough planet to create infrastructure and training programs and technology and education to support it. It really is possible, the experts promise.

    My heart is broken along side yours, Shep.

  • Please excuse my numerous typing errors. Thanks.

  • “Colin Flaherty in “White Girl Bleeds a Lot” or “Don’t Make the Black Kids Angry” ?”

    It would take a saint with great genius, and the patience of Job, to explain to certain people why there is no equivalence between misguided black youth attacking other races AND the kind of violence institutionally meted out to blacks. Or even the very strategic and significant violence of Daryl Roof. I’m not remotely up to the task (What the youth are doing is shameful, and essentially suicidal behavior, as Shep at least would understand. It is in no way like what Roof did.)

    I offered my own heritage as an example of how things work. The country where I grew up was labeled the first or second most violent country in the world (along with Columbia) during a period in the 1980s. Young men from the class that my class screwed over now had mobility and guns. The violence they perpetuated on their own and on others was awesome in its cruelty. But I’m not so FUCKING STUPID as to think that the class behavior which privileged me had nothing to do with that unleashing of violence by the children of my former class victims. There was no equivalence between the centuries of injustice and the viral reaction of the poor. It’s just as if if I were too FUCKING STUPID to not see how the violence of ISIS and the institutional and systemic behavior of colonial powers was related.

    People here like to deride religion, but I have to say that religious people like the pope are light years beyond this incredible nonsense that I am witnessing today.

  • My name is robin datta
    I say nothing’s the matta
    If you say no to thata
    My logic will
    Make you shatta

    (maybe this needs some work J)

    Artleads –

    A rat done bit my sister Nell.
    (with Whitey on the moon)
    Her face and arms began to swell.
    (and Whitey’s on the moon)
    I can’t pay no doctor bill.
    (but Whitey’s on the moon)
    Ten years from now I’ll be payin’ still.
    (while Whitey’s on the moon)
    The man jus’ upped my rent las’ night.
    (’cause Whitey’s on the moon)
    No hot water, no toilets, no lights.
    (but Whitey’s on the moon)
    I wonder why he’s uppin me?
    (’cause Whitey’s on the moon?)
    I wuz already payin’ ‘im fifty a week.
    (with Whitey on the moon)
    Taxes takin’ my whole damn check,
    Junkies makin’ me a nervous wreck,
    The price of food is goin’ up,
    An’ as if all that shit wuzn’t enough:
    A rat done bit my sister Nell.
    (with Whitey on the moon)
    Her face an’ arm began to swell.
    (but Whitey’s on the moon)
    Was all that money I made las’ year
    (for Whitey on the moon?)
    How come there ain’t no money here?
    (Hmm! Whitey’s on the moon)
    Y’know I jus’ ’bout had my fill
    (of Whitey on the moon)
    I think I’ll sen’ these doctor bills,
    Airmail special
    (to Whitey on the moon)

    Gil Scott-Heron

  • Mike K – Great Gil Scott-Heron poem. Exactly!!

    I watched the documentary on the Koji that was posted recently. I was particularly struck by a comment one man made, and I don’t think I have it exactly but it was very close to this – “We are trying to divine a way to teach you to stop.”

    As a culture we keep believing that if we have more – more resources, more knowledge (this is a big one), more science, more technology, more, more, more – eventually our way of life will take care of everyone, a myth that has failed repeatedly for a few hundred years, especially in this country where all our convictions regarding “freedom” and “liberty” and “justice” were based upon the material reality of genocide, ecocide and slavery.

    We just love holding the right beliefs, opinions, having the right information. Most of us hate living up to our convictions if it is the least bit inconvenient. Real equality is not something we believe in or know how to display with any competence.

    This is not new. Anyone who studies European history can see that the insanity goes far back in time to Rome. They had filthy, destructive ways going back to the middle ages. They had epidemic plagues from fouling their waters, something Indigenous people in the western hemisphere were not doing. They had already eliminated the large predators from their lands, and demolished the forests. Then they laud themselves for finding “answers” to their problems through science and engineering so they can have health while still continuing to contaminate everything, and these “advances” then prove how superior they are to the poor, ignorant heathens/savages/indigenous people they murder and steal from. People who were smart enough in the first place not to kill everything they saw and pollute their water.

    We never needed all this crap that has turned the planet into a giant trash heap, and we always needed a healthy environment, something Native Americans have been trying to tell Europeans for a few hundred years. Even now, however, you can’t tell most individuals in this culture anything. They have created the best of all possible worlds, and no matter how miserable it is, they are certain it was better than everyone else’s.

    The entitlement and the hubris are both psychotic and psychopathic, and from this way of being we in the industrialized nations have destroyed the world. But we think it’s different than murdering many millions of Native Americans and stealing all their land and enslaving millions and millions more Africans. There is no difference. This is us.

    No, indigenous people were not “better” people. But their cultures did respect the environment and they were very skilled and sophisticated in their scientific knowledge of their world and all the plants and animals in it, something educated individuals in this culture still cannot comprehend. It can be okay to be a brown or black person in the culture as long as your values are in line with Whitey and you dress, have a home (with your requisite weed-free and sufficiently mowed lawn), a car, a career, an education, blah, blah, blah, like Whitey does. Because it’s not just about the skin color, it’s about the values and the violence, too. You have to believe putting someone on the moon trumps basic decency toward poor people and that it’s really all just “progress.”

    People who cannot see the clear relationship that exists between how we treat human beings, especially people who have “resources” we want, and the voracious, rampaging murder of the animals and the living biosphere, haven’t figured it out yet.

  • Ogf – You have told it like it is. The bone that still sticks in my craw is – what can we do about it? I know a lot who share on this blog have thrown in the towel on changing anything about this mindless juggernaut of civilization, but I still find it hard to just stand by while it crashes – even though I keep telling myself that is all one can do. I assuage myself by changing the things I can, but I still apparently lack the wisdom to not try changing the world, which I should know I can’t. Somewhere in me the old hope against hope bug lives on ….

  • OGF/Mike K,

    For my part, I think you’re both correct. I puzzle at the absolute certainty that resistance can’t succeed (even if it can’t) when it has never been tried (for reasons described by OGF). Thanks for that soulful poem, Mike K.

  • mike k asks — what can we do about it?

    I wouldn’t say I have no hope (though I find the whole idea of hope kind of smarmy and gross). I simply have spent many years trying to see something that appears to be helping somewhere, and I just don’t see it.

    Local initiatives to help hungry people get food, or help shelter animals find good homes, etc etc, can always accomplish some of their goals, but we all know that the big issues like global warming, fresh water shortage, ocean death, are still steamrolling over us all.

    As for lacking the wisdom to NOT try changing the world, I would just ask you, “what have you tried? Did it help in a significant way?” I’d be happy to try something, but everything I’ve seen or imagined so far is either pointless or beyond my abilities.

  • Mike, the only thing I’ve come up with is to live my convictions to the very best of my ability, to not be destructive, to grow as much of my food as possible, to eliminate as much electricity as possible, to live as humbly as possible and still live. I’m used to to-the-bone poverty, and I can live very, very lean, on very, very little, and I have chosen to do that rather than participate in psycholand anymore. I’ve been working toward it for a long time, starting by building my own home, humble as it is, and I do mean I built it, along with my former spouse. I am not socially acceptable or respected at all for this choice. When I say things quite simply, like “I don’t have the money,” not even small amounts like ten dollars, you should see the looks I get from people, like I have a contagious disease. I haven’t worked for 2.5 years, and I’m looking like the Babushkas of Chernobyl in my shack in Alaska, threadbare clothes, and not much in the way of food, especially today. When things break, like the dishwasher or whatever, I do things by hand. I rarely drive, often driving maybe four miles a week. I don’t “do” a lot that isn’t housework or growing my garden. Apart from those things, my priority is making useful items by hand, like my slippers I make or making clothing or whatever, building a chicken coop, etc.

    We didn’t make ourselves. We didn’t make the world and we didn’t make ourselves, and we aren’t competent to “fix” (get what we want) from either. I do the best I can now, and I trust that when I need to do something else, I’ll manage or I won’t. I am American Indian. It’s what my grandmother have done before me, and I respect them and their wisdom and I will follow their example.

    Best to you all.

  • correction: “my grandmothers”. I’m trying to be a better typist and writer here. I can do it when I try.

  • I don’t know if any of you know the book by Paul Hawken Blessed Unrest? In it he tells how he discovered the truly immense number of small groups all over the world trying to help a better more just and peaceful world be born. In a masterful way he outlines how he believes this hidden dimension of good works may actually change our world. I can’t do justice to his thought on this, so you can take a peek into his book on Amazon, and see what you think. It’s sorta like when Swift’s Lilliputians managed to capture Gulliver in spite of his enormous size relative to them. Who knows? I guess my flickering hope relies a lot on the uncertainty underlying our universe, and our ignorance of what may transpire.

    I admire your life of bare simplicity ogf. My life is simple compared to most but far more complex than yours. I feel like my tiny example is lost in the immense greed for more around me, so I use that as an excuse not to feel to guilty about what perks of civilization I enjoy. I fall back on the alibi that if everybody else decides to get really bare bones simple, then I’ll be glad to go along, but until then I’ll only go half way to basic simplicity. One reason I was attracted to the Quakers was their ethic of simplicity. But how most of them live nowadays is a far cry from John Woolman’s lifestyle. I feel the attraction of modern comforts in spite of my ideals….

    https://www.amazon.com/Blessed-Unrest-Largest-Movement-Restoring/dp/0143113658/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1434828869&sr=1-1&keywords=paul+hawken+blessed+unrest

  • mike k wrote: I fall back on the alibi that if everybody else decides to get really bare bones simple, then I’ll be glad to go along, but until then I’ll only go half way to basic simplicity.

    I love it! I built an off-grid strawbale house in 2007 with propane for DHW and radiant heat — every so often someone asks me why I don’t have solar for my heat and water, and I tell them what you just told us, “I’ve done all I’m going to do until my neighbors take a few steps in the same direction. Then I’ll be happy to play catch-up :-)”

  • “mike k wrote: I fall back on the alibi that if everybody else decides to get really bare bones simple, then I’ll be glad to go along, but until then I’ll only go half way to basic simplicity.

    I love it! I built an off-grid strawbale house in 2007 with propane for DHW and radiant heat — every so often someone asks me why I don’t have solar for my heat and water, and I tell them what you just told us, “I’ve done all I’m going to do until my neighbors take a few steps in the same direction. Then I’ll be happy to play catch-up :-)”

    Good. I’m not interested either in any kind of public project unless there are hundreds of others involved. I also agree with everyone here that living within your truth has divine significance. We think we need to do something and see something external result, but the work is all done already (whatever it is), like a wave that we try to ride. My two cents anyway.

  • mike k,

    I found out about Hawken’s book when he came to speak about it here in Ottawa in 2007, as it was being published. It was the first thing I’d found since I entered the shadow of collapse in 2004 that gave me any reason for hope, and I clung to it like a drowning man. Ultimately the waves of thermodynamic absolutism, evolutionary psychology and genetic determinism proved too strong, and ripped it from my grasp. I cursed it as hopium dream for years afterwards.

    Now I’m beginning to understand that, solution or not, such ideas are stations on the path of right action. There’s a fine line between seeing something as a forlorn hope and realizing that whether or not they are forlorn is not the point. Yes, human beings are products of evolution, but we are hardly standard products of it, if you take my meaning.

    The standard-bearers of collective determinism may be called by their worldview to discount concepts like conscience and nobility, but that does not mean that those who hold down the other side of the yin-yang circle must follow their lead – quite the contrary, in fact. And for those lucky few who have one foot in the shadow and the other in the light, the poignant awareness of probable failure only adds to the liberating joy of doing it anyway.

    In my opinion Hawken touched something very big with that book – the nobility of the individual human spirit.