Presenting in Rhode Island

I was the first of three panelists discussing abrupt climate change on the University of Rhode Island campus in late February 2015. The video recently became available and is embedded below. It was shot and edited by Pauline Schneider. My ten-minute presentation kicks off the event.


I was interviewed by Reverend Billy from the Church of Stop Shopping last Thursday morning. The interview will air Wednesday, 3 June 2015 at 2:00 p.m. Eastern on WBAI radio in New York City. Catch it on the Internet by clicking here.

Comments 112

  • Is it even possible to imagine if Jews anywhere else in the world were treated in anywhere near the manner that Palestinians are treated, that this would be tolerated in the same manner as western countries and western media?

  • This presentation at the U. of RI was better than some of the others in the sense that the peers were more cordial with less of a negative knee-jerk reactive.

    It is interesting that the final speaker understands that environmental law is the law of the land, but outlaws are running the show, so we are not a nation of laws as we claim..

    In a warmonger society like our own I am experimenting with the notion of a counter invasion against the U.S. because of its alien-like invasion of the Earth (Greenland & Antarctica Invade The United States).

  • Someone is trying every trick in the book and every flavor of troll to throw this site off track. My guess is that as Guy’s message gains momentum, this situation will get worse. So how does one implement the ‘ignore’ feature? I mean here on NBL, not in the metaphysical sense. ;)

  • Right on Wren! When people use NBL as a place to express personal hatreds, it is just so damn inappropriate.

  • Wren/Kirk—-yes, I agree with what you say above—–right on to both of you!

    I like to come here for a sense of community, honesty, support and to feel less alone in a world full of denial, hate, cruelty. When the comments deteriorate it is so disheartening. When insightful, intelligent commenters fall away due to comments that are toxic it is most disappointing given all else that is happening in the world.
    In general when conversing with other people before I spout off (and sometimes I get the urge to vent) I try to consider, “is this contaminating or contributing to healthy discourse”?
    I do not have this down yet but at least am cognizant of it and trying.

    Are things better on the NTE FB site? I am not a facebook fan, have avoided it but might reconsider . . .

    on another note:
    Guy, why do think Joe Romm repeatedly states; “I personally doubt homo sapiens will go fully extinct.” (excerpt from

    Do you think this is coming from a psychological place (i.e. denial, fear, human hubris) or is it based on his perception of the science? Operative word: “perception”.
    Same thing is going on with many others, JMG, Robert Marston Fanney (sp?) and many more.

  • Ozman said in a previous post:

    “Stay on target, the planet dudes, the planet!

    People are all people, even those differentiating themselves into historic ethnic blocs.

    We are one species”

    Well said Ozman!

    Yes, it’s the planet, our Earth that matters above everything, and all her precious life forms soon to suffer near-term extinction.

    By all means, let’s talk about history on this beach of doom, among other things, but let’s always keep it in the context of the human predicament.

    There is only a very fine line between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism.
    And let’s not forget that if it hadn’t been for anti-Semitism, we would not have Zionism at all and therefore no state of Israel. Probably, the Jewish people would have been mainly absorbed into the societies and countries that they were part of. This was an ongoing process in the German speaking world (culture) in the 19th century. But things happened… had they developed differently, who knows, Judaism might only be a religion by now which people of Jewish descent would be practising or not, just as they do today.
    I just went on a vacation with a secular Jew (married to an Indian woman) who hates what’s going on in Israel. There are many like him, yes, even in Israel. Nothing is black and white, never was, never is.
    Please, let’s not make it so.

    Just my two cents as a native German who knows her history very well.

  • “If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” – Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Scapegoating (from the verb “to scapegoat”) is the practice of singling out any party for unmerited negative treatment or blame as a scapegoat.

    Especially in times of great troubles and anxiety some people have chosen to deflect all responsibility for the situation onto others, and by blaming them created an opportunity for venting all their anger and hostility against the imagined cause of everything wrong in the world. This was the mechanism Hitler used to unify the German people (at least a large number of them) against the Jews and other
    minority groups, and justify incredible violence against them with the insane goal of exterminating them entirely, so that the good Aryan people could rule the world for a thousand years. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion was a hoax that Hitler and others have used to prove the Jews seek to rule the world for their selfish profit. The amazing thing is that holocaust deniers and neo-nazis still believe this fraudulent lie.

    Although some have used the specter of anti-Semitism to shield Jews from all criticism, this should not blind us to the huge amount of unfounded blame that some would hurl at them. Nor should we take lightly the resurgence of Nazism in Europe and even in the USA, and the real danger that this madness still represents. Free speech is a precious principle that must be deeply honored. But the very real toxic and corrupting power of hate speech must be countered wherever it arises – preferably by counter speech based on reason, truth, and love. Censorship should be a last resort. Just my thoughts – not carved in stone dogma….

  • Caroline, it seems Romm is a typical patriarch. And he lives in or near Washington, D.C. I suspect he is paid to lie. He almost certainly would not be writing at ClimateProgress were he spreading the truth. Bear in mind he blocked me from commenting, so perhaps I’m projecting with cynicism.

  • Wren, mike k, Kirk, Sabine, Robin, ed, OzMan, Martin, Curious, Caroline ~

    super thanks for sharing the spirit!

    and Kirk, this:

    To me, there is no such thing as freedom outside of love and compassion.

    so much yes. wow, so well said.

    mike k, the Solzhenitsyn quote is amazing.

  • Professor of Oceanography at U. R.I, John King is as alarming & enthusiastic a technofixer & geo-engineering advocate as any I ever heard.

    At 21:00 King starts seriously delivering his serious plea for geo-engineering as “the only way out of this.”

    At 21:03 – 21:10 King says; “We are just now starting to admit that we were doing this, & we weren’t doing it ON PURPOSE.” (emphasis mine)

    By “this” King is referring primarily to past human geo-engineering – specifically, agriculture, especially rice, & deforestation.

    If people don’t fill their hungry bellies on purpose, I don’t understand the word purpose?

    Before mankind can apply brainy geoengineering, he must eat & drink

    After circuitously “implying” that guy may be on board his technofix schemes, technofixer King continues; ” … the only way out of this is we start doing this ON PURPOSE with a vengeance.” (emphasis mine)

    The academically detached King never makes much of a plea for stopping or cutting back on our massive industrial CO2 emissions.

    King barely touches on the looming & all-too-real methane monster.

    It also appears that technofixer King completely missed Guy’s earlier clearly stated discussion of a highly probable abrupt 50 Gt Arctic methane release.

    Guy was respectfully quiet during sincere Professor’s King’s mad max “suggestions.”

    Prof. King makes no specific “material or physical” technofixing “prescriptions.”

    The details & consequences of massively manipulating nature on purpose can be “devilish,” as we have been advised by many wise observers?

  • Holy Moly, Joe Romm blocked you?

    I was about to defend Romm because I thought it overly harsh to call him a conscious paid liar.

    Blocking you especially, as the honest factual opposition, is a crime against science & truth seeking.

    Yes, real liars exist; but as a hard nosed behaviorist, I often claim that many well meaning people are “defending themselves emotionally” based on having been fed intended distortions by malicious & sinister fellow humans.

    By simple definition; No scientist can block the way of honest unfettered inquiry.

    Conscious lying, distortion, & deceit are the true enemies of scientific inquiry.

    Conscious Lying, distortion, & deceit is what got us into deadly bondage, & is keeping us in deadly bondage.

    Some humans manipulating other humans for their own nefarious ends.

    Truth exists & we fallible humans can know the truth.

    There is no better reason to live an honest intellectual life.

  • here is something to cool every body down:

    in other words, when you are cooked, you cannot be uncooked

  • sorry Gerald, whether overt or covert, you are still just acting like a fucking fruitloop.

    either way, it’s not going to fly. enjoy your bondage.

  • Caroline Says:
    June 1st, 2015 at 8:22 am
    Wren/Kirk—-yes, I agree with what you say above—–right on to both of you!

    I agree, their trying to hijack the debate. I also agree when you say

    In general when conversing with other people before I spout off (and sometimes I get the urge to vent) I try to consider, “is this contaminating or contributing to healthy discourse”?

    I will try to follow this

    The first thing I would like to say is that I really liked the Carolyn Baker discussion excellent stuff.

    The first book I read on climate change was twenty five years ago, namely, Turning Up The Heat by Fred Pearce (published in 1989), with the benefit of hindsight its plain to see that a lot of what Pearce said was likely to happen hasn’t happened yet.

    I would like to ask Dr Guy if he’s seen the “How Guy McPherson gets it wrong | Fractal Planet blog by SCOTT K. JOHNSON”. One of his many criticisms of your work is that you dont recognise the existence of negative feedback loops that may dampen climate change. Only two come to my mind, the Land carbon cycle (currently negative feedback), and the role of Phytoplankton in the production of Di Methyl Sulphide (DMS) which could be a positive feedback if the oceans acidify. My point is that Climate Science is very compicated. For example, this is just one paper on the subject.

    Its all too easy to be lost in the detail of the argument. This leads to a “paralysis by analysis”.
    I agree with you that its probably too late too jump from the “Armageddon Express” that is hurtling down the tracks.


  • Loved the piece with Carolyn Baker, Excellent stuff

  • Sorry, said the same thing twice, wont say anything tommorow to make up for it

  • Why all that hate against “the jews” here? I don’t like the politics against Palastine either. But that’s not the fault of “the jews”, it is the fault of the Israel gouvernment, the fault of a minority, the minority of the socalled “elite”, as it is the case all around the world.

    Did you know that the majority of the israeli people are actually voting for a free, autonomous Palestine ? And there are hundreds of israelian private organizations who work together with palestinians for peace !

    I remember Dr. McPherson always recommending “Pursuing a life of excellence” and “Only love remains”- well, prapagating hate against “the jews” is NEITHER excellence, NOR love.

  • Curious – your comment, “Why all that hate against “the jews” here?”
    No. It’s almost entirely one person, who, by ignoring the 2 post rule, makes it seem like many more.

  • @Wren

    You are right, it’s almost entirely only one person who makes it seem like many. I adressed that person directly once already and I didn’t want to adress that person directly once again. Anyway, thank you for the correction!

  • Guy, thanks for your response. I do believe you nailed it. Had no idea you were banned—-seems downright adolescent. But then again, you’re probably right about the D.C. connection/control. Wish they would ban the deniers and the horrid spammers but that serves a purpose I suppose.

    It has always bothered me that Joe R. places humans on a much higher level of significance than other creatures—— as if the nonhuman world exists for the sake of humans. That kind of says it all too.

    So glad you are doing what you are doing and hope that you can let go of regrets. Staying on as part of the sick system that is “academia” may have taken a deep toll on your psyche. And besides . . . teaching biology would be so challenging now as the biological world that we once learned about is no more. Unless you can teach about what happens with rapid methane release (good article even though I think I may be banned from this site):

    At the risk of sounding rather limited in my atmospheric chemistry knowledge; seriously, if there is a huge, rapid methane release occurring what will happen?

    How will we know when this is life threatening? I mean like immediate future life threatening? When we’re gasping for air?

    Is this the definitive Jason Box we’re f*%#ed moment that is unfolding in the arctic now?

    Reading the recent methane spike news feels like hearing about planes hitting buildings on 911 only MUCH worse . . .
    The feeling of not knowing what is really going on and where we can find the truth and then what to do . . . .

  • I seldom read back comments. In this case I did.
    Is that Gerald clown for real?

  • He should really study german history. Adolf Hitler and the nazis were the sickest guys ever on the planet. They did not only kill 6 million Jews in the concentration camps, but gypsies, dissidents, disabled persons, homosexuals etc too, not to forget millions of soldiers who died for nothing. Now Germany has to live with that shameful history forever and also lost her sovereignty. The germans built the very first concentration camps in Namibia back in 1904 aldready:

    There were five concentration camps in all in Namibia, then German South West Africa, between 1904 and 1908. They were called Konzentrationslagern in reports and succeeded South African camps by two years…

    In terms of mortality statistics, the Namibian camps were horrific. An official report on the camps in 1908 described the mortality rate as 45,2% of all prisoners held in the five camps.

    The prisoners were typically fenced in, either by thorn-bush fences or by barbed wire. As the word concentration implies, thousands of people were crammed into small areas. The Windhoek camp held about 5 000 prisoners of war in 1906.

    Rations were minimal, consisting of a daily allowance of a handful of uncooked rice, some salt and water…,9800,.shtml

    Right before the end of the war in may 1945, Hitler even backstabed the german nation and it’s people, his very own nation, his very own people, by saying:

    “ Well, if they are not able to win the war, they f… deserve to perish anyway !”

    And then he commited suicide, that “great hero”. Hitler just hated everyone, including himself. No, there were no excellence, no love, there were just endless hate and screeching all day long, the were only nightmarish, unimaginable hell in the very meaning of the word.

  • Sorry, the link I posted about Namibia Konzentrationslager were broken, here the correct one:

  • A don’t think a sudden massive methane release would cause us to gasp for air. I think it instead would give a hard kick to all of the other feedback loop elements, and the temperature would go way up in a hurry. We, meaning humans and other animals along with most plants would not be able to adapt. Extinction would be the result.

    I guess the question is how quick could it happen? Several years, a single year? Months or even weeks?

  • Don’t miss J.H.Kunstler’s accurate essay on N.Y.Times Population article.

  • ‘where we can find the truth and then what to do . . . .’

    If you live in a big city, get out.

    If you live in region dependent on external water supplies, get out.

    If you live in a location less than 5 metres above the current highest tides, get out.

    If you have ‘money’ invested in paper, get out.

    If you watch mainstream television, stop.

    If you listen to mainstream radio, stop.

    If you think the government is there to help you, wake up (unless you are a banker, a high-level executive in a corporation or an opportunists, in which case the government is there to help you).

    Acquire plenty of hand toll and the skill to use them.

    Walk or cycle instead of travelling by car.

    Eat less processed food and more unprocessed food.

    Recognise that whatever you do, everything that matters will be made worse by those in power, and that they will lie continuously in order to make things worse……

    etcetera etcetera.

    An interesting aspect not touched on here lately is whether Jewishness is a racial/tribal characteristic or a religious characteristic. There is some evidence that a relatively small group of migrants from what is now Israel arrived in what is now southern Russia and persuaded the locals to adopt their religion. The enhanced numbers then migrated towards what is now Poland.

    Numerous websites suggest that although Jews constitute only a tiny portion of the US population, they constitute more than half of the members of Federal Reserve, senior executives of Goldman Sachs etc.

    It has been suggested that John Key, NZ looter-in-chief is either Jewish or has very strong Jewish connexions; similar Cameron and other ‘world leaders’.

    My fields of expertise are primarily chemistry and physics, and I am still focused on preparations for the coming financial meltdown, so I leave it to others fathom out whether Jewishness is a genetic condition or a religious condition.

  • Curious

    I suggest you do some research into the concentration camps the British constructed when the Boer men failed to comply with British demands and kept making a nuisance of themselves by killing British troops; the British rounded up women and children and starved them to death, somewhat before the Germans adopted the idea.

    Then there is the small matter of the concentration camps the Americans constructed at the end of WW2, to take out their vengeance on the German army (Eisenhower’s Rhinefield camps), where Americans shot, bulldozed over and starved to death German soldiers who had surrendered and were herded into barbed wire enclosures with no tents food or latrines. Civilians who attempted to feed the starving soldiers were shot by American troops.

    There are sick, evil people everywhere, I’m afraid.

  • “If you live in a big city, get out.”

    I see no reason to think that cities can’t be self-sustaining.

    Beside, 7 billion people leaving cities to sprawl all over the countryside only increases the rate of species extinction, devastating as it already is.

  • “whether Jewishness is a genetic condition or a religious condition”…

    Both. AND a cultural condition. Me and them go to Chinese restaurants on Christmas. I skip the movie.

    When I dated a non-observant Jew I was taken to meet his parents. The mom looked me up and down and the first words out of her mouth were “.. at least she has our coloring..

    XBF’s sister married a blonde, blue-eyed corn-fed hick from somewhere in the South. They moved to the Upper East Side of NYC, and he regaled me with stories about the “shvartzes” on the subway. Nothing like hearing the word “shvartzes” in a Southern accent. They trained him well, I guess.

    This is the Upper East Side, btw:

    Pretty fascinating anthropology in the article.

    I dated a black guy for a few years, and his mom was all happy thinking I was black, because I had a “black” name (my real name—actually of Greek origin—is apparently considered “black”).

    I’ve given up trying to figure it out. Racialism, tribalism, religionism.. all real, all part of the Human Comedy/Tragedy.

    Remember how Clinton (booty calls, fried chicken) was dubbed (by whom? David Brooks or somebody, I guess…) the first “black” president? I wonder if Obama (mustard on a hot dog) ever got to ask him about that.

  • All I know is the Jews have about the same amount of Neanderthal DNA as the rest of us (1-4%) except non sub Sahara black africans. Which is far too little to redeem us IMHO.

  • Neanderthal DNA would redeem us?

    Husband has a prominent brow. Must investigate.

  • Correction:

    Acquire plenty of hand tools and the skill to use them

  • When you read
    my poems
    forget the words –
    words mean nothing
    to me –
    What concerns me is
    the unutterable
    loneliness of the
    human heart

    Alden Nowlan

    (I just wanted to share that.)

  • paraphrasing 3rd person from clip:
    “I’m going to ASSUME…cause, who knows, we might.”

    This is what it has come to.

  • Inside the bizarre life of an Upper East Side housewife

    It’s amazing that women who are well educated (and should know better) put up with this.

  • To mike k. – the Alden Nowlan piece – lovely – I always enjoy it when poets share poetry by other poets (keeps the brother/sisterhood tight).

    “Glacier, Washington. Our waitress told us of a friend of hers who worked in the Forest Service there, who told her that the area had, in the past year, “received the least amount of precipitation [that] it had for over 100 years.”

  • Lidia Says:
    June 1st, 2015 at 4:17 pm

    ““whether Jewishness is a genetic condition or a religious condition”…

    Both. ”

    I spent my first 11 years in Israel. All the kids in my homeroom class at (public) school in Tel Aviv were of Jewish background. Physically they spanned the entire range of human variation, from black African to Asian (Central Asia) to nordic European. I dare you to show me any ethnic group, actual or purported, which demonstrators such variability. The idea that they form a genetic group is utterly ridiculous. In fact, authoritative studies have shown that the genetic material of European Jews is pretty much the same as Europeans in general.

    Since it is really good, one of his best in a long time, here’s Kunstler’s essay from today.
    Twenty-Three Geniuses, 6/1/15. Kunstler is in top form.

    “If there is a Pulitzer Booby Prize for stupidity, waste no time in awarding it to The New York Times’ Monday feature, The Unrealized Horrors of Population Explosion. The former “newspaper of record” wants us to assume now that the sky’s the limit for human activity on the planet earth. Problemo cancelled. The article and accompanying video was actually prepared by a staff of 23 journalists. Give the Times another award for rounding up so many credentialed idiots for one job.
    Apart from just dumping on Stanford U. biologist Paul Ehrlich, author of The Population Bomb(1968), this foolish “crisis report” strenuously overlooks virtually every blossoming fiasco around the world. This must be what comes of viewing the world through your cell phone.
    One main contention in the story is that the problem of feeding an exponentially growing population was already solved by the plant scientist Norman Borlaug’s “Green Revolution,” which gave the world hybridized high-yielding grain crops. Wrong. The “Green Revolution” was much more about converting fossil fuels into food. What happens to the hypothetically even larger world population when that’s not possible anymore? And did any of the 23 journalists notice that the world now has enormous additional problems with water depletion and soil degradation? Or that reckless genetic modification is now required to keep the grain production stats up?
    No, they didn’t notice because the Times is firmly in the camp of techno-narcissism, the belief that the diminishing returns, unanticipated consequences, and over-investments in technology can be “solved” by layering on more technology — an idea whose first cousin is the wish to solve global over-indebtedness by generating more debt. Anyone seeking to understand why the public conversation about our pressing problems is so dumb, seek no further than this article, which explains it all.
    Climate change, for instance, is only mentioned once in passing, as though it was just another trashy celebrity sighted at a “hot” new restaurant in the Meatpacking District. Also left out of the picture are the particulars of peak oil (laughed at regularly by the Times, which proclaimed the US “Saudi America” some time back), degradation of the ocean and the stock of creatures that live there, loss of forests, the political instability of whole regions that can’t support exploded populations, and the desperate migrations of people fleeing these desolate zones.
    As averred to above, the Times also has no idea about the relation of finance to resources. The banking problems we see all over the world are a direct expression of the limits to growth, specifically the limits to debt creation. We can’t continue to borrow from the future to pay for our comforts and conveniences today because we have no real conviction that these debts can ever be repaid. We certainly wish we could, and the central bankers running the money system would like to pretend that we could by making negligible the cost of borrowing money and engaging in pervasive accounting fraud. But that has only served to cripple the operation of markets and pervert the meaning of interest rates — and, really, as a final result, to destroy any sense of consequence among the people running things everywhere.
    The crackup of that financial system will be the signal failure of the collapse of the current economic regime. The financial system is the most fragile of all the systems we depend on (though the others do not lack fragility). This is the reason, by the way, that oil prices are so low, despite the fact that the cost of producing oil has never been higher. The oil customers are going broke even faster than the oil producers. Does anybody doubt that the standard of living in the USA is falling, despite all our cell phone apps?
    The basic fact of the matter is that the energy bonanza of the past 200-odd years produced a matrix of complex systems, as well as a hypertrophy in human population. These complex systems — banking, agri-biz, hop-scotching industrialization, global commerce, Eds & Meds, Happy Motoring, commercial aviation, suburbia — have all reached their limits to growth, and those limits are expressing themselves in growing global disorder and universal bankruptcy. Do the authors of The New York Times report think that the oil distribution situation is stable?
    There were two terror bombings in Saudi Arabia the past two weeks. Did anyone notice the significance of that? Or that the May 29th incident was against a Shiite mosque, or that the Shia population of Saudi Arabia is concentrated in the eastern province of the kingdom where nearly all of the oil production is concentrated? (Or that the newly failed state of neighboring Yemen is about 40 percent Shiite?) Have any of the 23 genius-level reporters at The New York Times tried to calculate what it would mean to the humming global economy if Arabian oil came off the market for only a few weeks?
    Paul Ehrlich was right, just a little off in his timing and in explicating with precision the unanticipated consequences of limitless growth. But isn’t it in the nature of things unanticipated that they generally are not?”

    My comments.
    And i continue to see blatant signs of social collapse all around me, even in relatively privileged Berkeley, as daily i see more people in the streets, relatively well-dressed, apparently just recently displaced, more people looking through dumpsters and garbage cans behind stores, more people just plain driving through stop signs, many more coming close to hitting pedestrians in crosswalks, more people walking around mesmerized by their “smart” phones, paying not the slightest attention which way they’re going. Hey, many of the homeless sit on sidewalks and play with their phones. Large parts of the populations are turning into iDiots, the term applying not only to their fixation with i-devices but also their growing self-absorption and complete disassociation from the society they live in. This is a big reason why even many who consider themselves “ultra left” are completely oblivious to the growing signs of eco-colllapse.

  • My point is that Climate Science is very compicated.

    That Dr. McPherson was banned by Romm is ancient history to those of us who have been around NBL since before Ye Olde Mudd Hutt was under construction. But since “We’re done” this is the place to make sense of the onrushing tide of events.

    מו פלו שלום עליכם

    “What concerns me is the unutterable loneliness of the human heart”

    Loneliness is an indication that the person finds one’s own company intolerable. For the realised person there is no “I”, and ergo, no “not-I”. The Divine in the Judaic tradition has the whole of space here, and the whole of time now; the subtlest aspect of the individual (Yechida) is non-different from the Divine (Ain Sof). That realisation is the death of individuality, the Great Death of the Buddhist tradition.

    גיפפ ש שלומ עליכם ו
    ברוך דין האמת

  • Correct that last one to a “meem stuma”.

  • I saw that Times piece myself, and of course Jeff’s basic comments about us running out of STUFF are correct and accurate.

    However, my takeaway from the piece is really informed by a comment about Guy from Dimitry Orlov’s blog, quoting from another well credentialed scientist, Dr. Chris Martenson of


    “I have a very big complaint against McPherson, and that is that he’s misusing science and abusing his self-proclaimed authority. I suspect that he does this because he has not processed his own grief and lacks the tools to do so, so he shares it instead.

    But that’s just some Psych 101 and it could be wrong.

    On the matter of science, I could not be more clear. We know some very important things about complex systems, but the most important of them all is that they cannot be predicted.

    Neither the timing nor the magnitude of state changes can be predicted. That’s a feature of complex systems, and as I wrote in my book, even the slump behavior of a simple, growing sand pile eludes our best supercomputers.

    How then shall we assess that Mr. McPherson seems to know both the timing and the severity of a climate system that is many, many orders of magnitude more complex than a single sand pile?

    He claims that human extinction by 2030 is already a done deal.

    This is such utter horsecrap that I don’t even know where to begin. It is irresponsible science at best, but I am open to the idea that it is actually worse than that. (Alas, there’s my own emotional system sneaking in…I hold very strong beliefs around the ideas that neither the scientific method nor authority should be abused.)

    I will close by noting that several current and former members of this site have spoken of being deeply impacted, and quite negatively, by McPherson’s views and he certainly knows of these impacts and presumably approves of them on some level because he keeps touring the world sharing his views.”


    Of course, I don’t expect Guy to take this perspective to heart at this point. He’s too deeply invested in his date of doom.

    But what I will say is this:

    First, Guy likes to talk about science as the gold standard for any discussion. And yet here, when it comes to dealing with complex systems (or chaos systems if you prefer), Dr. Martenson is correct on the science: We just can’t model such systems adequately enough to make precise predictions.

    As someone else put it on Orlov’s blog, in another comment:


    Meanwhile, the fact is that when we make our various guesstimates about if and when such and such will happen, and what does it mean if and when it does…what we are guesstimating about is the biggest possible chaos system our planet offers us. Bigger than the weather, bigger than macro-economics, bigger than anything else where there are so many variables with such a wide variety of potential interactions that making any sort of PRECISE predictions is really just an exercise in human hubris.


    Like it or not, that’s exactly what you’re seeing in this NY Times piece on Guy’s friend (and interviewee), Dr Paul Erlich. His former student and mentee, the well-known Stewart Brand, has rejected Erlich and his ideas outright, simply because they didn’t come to pass as Erlich wrote them in his (in)famous book, THE POPULATION BOMB. (I think Brand has also become a techno-optimist, but that’s another discussion entirely.)

    Again, I don’t expect Guy to pay attention to this, but I actually think he shoots himself in the foot, and undermines his own credibility, by insisting that it’s all over by 2030. It gives people’s reptilian brain all the legitimate rationale it needs to dismiss the messenger entirely – because MANY people are educated enough these days to know that complex systems (chaos systems) are not subject to such exact predictions, just as Martenson says.

    I’ll also note that even Guy’s good friend and close collaborator Carolyn Baker refuses to put a date on doom. The most she’ll say is that she can’t see how we make it past the end of this century, which is a lot more reasonable in terms of wiggle room…a perspective I actually buy into myself.

    Now…for me the really fascinating question here is WHY so many people who know enough about science (whether they’re scientists or not) are drinking Guy’s hard doomer date kool-aid here. What’s the reason for it? What’s the ego payoff here? Or, if you prefer, what’s the reptilian brain getting out of this?

    Robin Datta nailed it quite well a few days ago, responding to a number of Batters who were mooning about, and moaning how happy they’ll be when it’s all over for us. He dismissed such endarkened, emotion-laden thinking as reptilian idiocy, and he’s right.

    It is a soul sickness, a deep and hateful misanthropy – which is often just as much directed inward as outward. It is thanatos incarnate to think and feel that way. It’s like saying that I have a difficult and wayward child, and I hope he gets brain cancer and dies because of all the grief he gives me.

    Yes, we are all going to die. And we all may die very soon, and very badly, too. Certainly Guy’s 2030 predictions are are among the realm of quantum possibilities that may show themselves as this Schrodinger’s Box is opened over time.

    But wishing for the worst outcome in the soonest possible time, simply to save what people call “Nature” is really nothing else than the secular equivalent of all those fundamentalist Christians who just can’t wait for Lord Jesus to come back and clease the earth with fire from all the wicked works of sinners.

    It’s lunacy, is what it is – the kind of thing someone says who has lost their inner compass, or perhaps has never found it.

    Creation happens…destruction happens…in the larger universe…in our own individual lives…and in the life of our planet as well.

    But if we’re really serious about being anything more than dickwads who are just one more part of the problem, we’ll find some meaning in the words of the Buddha (or other similar words), who taught people to contemplate and say, “May all beings be well and happy”…rather than wishing death or destruction upon any of them.

    As always…only love remains.

  • Interesting piece but you need to understand that you cant always understand something by analysing all its component parts due to something called emergence.

    This paper explains it better than me

    Your speaker seems to think that climate change will occur in a linear fashion but complex systems “jump” from one steady state to another

    This is important.

  • I’m not particularly enamoured of Mr. Kunstler anymore. Geography of Nowhere gave me a vocabulary to understand and critique the suburban hell I grew up in (which, incidentally, everyone insisted was like heaven). However, Kunstler’s bending over backwards to support Gorge Zimmerman’s murder of Trayvon Martin. “Blacks have to get with the program”. And the open implication that Trayvon was too big, too scary and too black – and therefore deserved death – is way over my consideration and toleration line. Same with Uncle Mike at COIC, who is so obsessed with trying to appear credible to warmongers, imperialists, right wing capitalists and white supremacists that he’ll openly self-lobotomize in public.

    “Mankind[‘s] … self alienation has reached such a degree that it can experience its own destruction as an aesthetic pleasure of the first order. This is the situation of politics which Fascism is rendering aesthetic.” – Walter Benjamin, “The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction”

  • Lidia,

    your comment reminded me of something Satish mentioned in one of his comments a while ago:
    “We are all cultural and racial mutts”.

    How true…
    You picked up on this here in a way that made me smile. Thanks for that.

    Jeff S.

    “… more people walking around mesmerized by their “smart” phones, paying not the slightest attention which way they’re going. Hey, many of the homeless sit on sidewalks and play with their phones. Large parts of the populations are turning into iDiots, the term applying not only to their fixation with i-devices but also their growing self-absorption and complete disassociation from the society they live in. This is a big reason why even many who consider themselves “ultra left” are completely oblivious to the growing signs of eco-collapse.”

    I like it! I didn’t know the expression “iDiots”. Thanks for broadening my vocabulary.

    Maybe we should classify most people as a new species: Homo iDiotus.
    Kevin might like to apply that one.

    I was on vacation in the Austrian Alps last week and saw one of your compatriots nearly falling off a mountain side when taking a video of himself walking along while holding up his “selfie” stick. He stumbled… I was about to clap and watch with glee as he tumbled down into the ravine. But I was disappointed, the spectacle didn’t happen. Am I a psychopath?

    There doesn’t seem to be an experience for people now unless it’s mediated by technology. People’s ability to experience directly has been dulled to an extent that the senses (our connection to the natural world) which evolved over millions of years, are completely overruled. Frightening.
    Even food has to be recorded on “smart” phones before they take it in as fuel( picturesque fuel as a vacation “experience”). It’s already impossible for them to connect to the living world. This is true for almost everybody in the “developed world”. Human flesh and blood can’t wait to become AI. Is this being engineered or is it just “working out” this way? (a rhetorical question)

    I don’t know anybody, apart from my husband and you people here on this blog who notice this and realize the profound implications of this development. And the irony is that the people on this blog are all “virtual” humans for me. Nonetheless, I like to think of most of you as real flesh and blood and kindred spirits.

  • Sabine – “And the irony is that the people on this blog are all “virtual” humans for me. Nonetheless, I like to think of most of you as real flesh and blood and kindred spirits.”

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors,
    As I foretold you, were all spirits, and
    Are melted into air, into thin air:
    And like the baseless fabric of this vision,
    The cloud-capp’d tow’rs, the gorgeous palaces,
    The solemn temples, the great globe itself,
    Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve,
    And, like this insubstantial pageant faded,
    Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff
    As dreams are made on; and our little life
    Is rounded with a sleep.

    The Tempest

    So you should view this fleeting world –
    A star at dawn, a bubble in a stream,
    A flash of lightening in a summer cloud,
    A flickering lamp, a phantom, and a dream.

    Diamond Sutra

    No man ever steps in
    The same river twice
    For it’s not the same river
    And he’s not the same man.
    Nothing endures
    Except change….


  • No sooner than I had shared the above quotes, I went to Tricycle for the Daily Dharma, and was confronted by this:

    To what shall I compare
    this life of ours?
    Even before I can say
    it is like a lightning flash
    or a dewdrop
    it is no more.

    You might like to read this beautiful piece on dying that followed the quote –

  • We may begin seeing more candidates like this soon:

    California Senate candidate: “We’re all going to die”


    As Beitiks puts it:

    I run for Senate on a narrow platform. It’s more of a single board, really. If elected, I promise to monomaniacally create and support legislation that combats climate change.

    This is not some sort of henny-penny scheme. It’s about realistic assessment and hard work.

    Literally nothing else will influence my decision-making and my political dealing. I will use the power of the law to brutalize the most brutal climate offenders and smack some sense into all of us.

    It will be a rough job, no doubt, but it can’t be that much rougher than going about my business like an ignorant sham of a man, willfully blind to the fact that my kids will come of age in an apocalyptic wasteland of our own making.

    I will be the first to admit that I’m not a perfect candidate. I’m barely qualified, and a survey of my personal history will undoubtedly expose me as an embarrassment to myself in almost every regard that does not include this singular act of rationality.

    [Hey, at least he’s honest!]

  • Mike K

    Thank you for your beautiful lyrical reply addressed to me.
    Yes, I feel that this is true, of course, and yet…

    I feel myself so attached to the living world, here and now, so much attached to my animal spirit, so much body and spirit undivided that our ruining this living planet will remain a visceral and shocking experience as long as I live. I suspect I want to live like that in order not to dull my animal senses, my intuition. So I live and accept this paradox.
    How to put in in words….mostly too difficult for me. “Fleeting and changing”… Anybody sensitive to this world would experience that but in order to love truly, I need my animal senses to remain keen.

    But yes, I also look for repose in these eternal truths you quoted – like you.
    Thanks again, I appreciate your comments very much.

    It’s a rainy, very stormy day here, too wet for my old bones to work in the garden. So virtual reality, it has to be.

  • Been feeding the birds lately (squirrels too). Does this mean I’m old or just stupid?

  • Recently a good internet friend sent me the video linked below. It’s a powerful graphic animation that examines the approximately 70 million military and civilian deaths that occurred during the six years of WWII.

    The video also looks at the deaths from warfare since 1945, and makes the point that the period’s sobriquet “The Long Peace” is well deserved. Deaths due to warfare over the last 70 years have been lower in absolute terms than at any similar period in modern history. Moreover, they are arguably lower in proportional terms than at any point in at least the last 10,000 years.

    My friend’s comment on the video was intended as an antidote to my core belief that the human race is nearly run, and to the potential for pessimism and despair that rides the coat-tails of that belief.

    “It’s not so bad…”

    Although I understand this point of view, I do not share it. Not one iota.

    It’s not so bad – if you’re a human being.

    It’s not so bad – unless you’re a non-human resident of the planet… For them the extermination continues; not just unabated, but with increasing ferocity, lethality, implacability and disdain.

    The reduction of warfare since 1945 is good, but only from a human point of view. For our voiceless companions it has been an unalloyed catastrophe. It has allowed human economic activity to increase to an unparalleled level, in which every new dollar of GDP has been earned by digging the graves of countless other beings.

    I’m no longer a humanist or a humanitarian. For me, the science of ecology has completed the Copernican revolution by finally dethroning Man from any pretense of centrality or special status in the universe.

    Like so many other lessons about perspective and place though, these realizations have come to far too few. Instead, the world is filled with the echo-chamber bleating of 7.3 billion hopium addicts, prattling endlessly to each other about foresight, free choice, education, their belief that it’s never too late, and the self-congratulatory delusion that technology and ingenuity are the solution to all the world’s ills.

    Despite it all, I’m not ashamed to be human. We are, after all, a two-sided coin. All of Beethoven’s symphonies, Rembrandt’s paintings and Einstein’s theories together have never extinguished a single clouded leopard. We are creatures like, yet utterly unlike, any other. More than a dark night sky full of stars, this awareness is my greatest source of awe and wonder.

    Unfortunately, we can’t eat Beethoven’s symphonies nor live in Rembrandt’s paintings. We eat meat and grain, and we live in homes built upon the crushed dwellings of our voiceless companions. In this regard we are animals like any other – heedless consumers of our environment, continuing on our consumptive way until the environment itself forces us off the path.

    At this moment in our history, those who recognize the horizon-thin thread of the tsunami wave for what it is need to cultivate compassion for all beings – for those we have already extinguished, and for those whose turn has yet to come. Even for our fellow species-mates who still play defiantly on the beach, denying the onrush of the waters or claiming that a modern King Canute will arise to push them back.

    Awareness, compassion and love are our only true birthrights. I plan to make them shine until my last breath.

    May you live in interesting times,
    Bodhi Paul Chefurka

    The link to the video:
    World War II: Loss of Life Visualized

  • Dear Paul,

    I share your insights completely and agree with every one of your words. You’ve put it so well, nothing could improve it.


    I know it’s my 3rd comment today but please indulge me. I had to say this now.

  • A rich man and a poor man met and looked at each other. Then the poor man said to the rich:

    “If I were not poor, you would not be rich.

    Berholt Brecht

  • Bodhi Paul,
    Thank you for taking the time to grace the cyber pages of NBL today. Brilliant, compassionate, loving and most helpful post today . . . such wise words. The root, the essence, you brought it home, at least for me.

  • Thank you, Paul. Beautifully stated.

    “To love. To be loved. To never forget your own insignificance. To never get used to the unspeakable violence and the vulgar disparity of life around you. To seek joy in the saddest places. To pursue beauty to its lair. To never simplify what is complicated or complicate what is simple. To respect strength, never power. Above all, to watch. To try and understand. To never look away. And never, never to forget.”

    ~ Arundhati Roy

    Never look away. Never forget. Live fully. Die well.

    “When it comes time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song, and die like a hero going home.

    ~ Chief Aupumut, Mohican. 1725

  • I’m tired of hearing about the Jewish holocaust. If someone wants to discuss the Native American Indian holocaust where a great deal more than six million (12 million by some estimates) lives were lost due to manifest destiny and colonialism, then I’m all ears.

    Outstanding couple of posts there KM.

  • Wild Geese
    by Mary Oliver

    You do not have to be good.
    You do not have to walk on your knees
    for a hundred miles through the desert, repenting.
    You only have to let the soft animal of your body
    love what it loves.
    Tell me about your despair, yours, and I will tell you mine.
    Meanwhile the world goes on.
    Meanwhile the sun and the clear pebbles of the rain
    are moving across the landscapes,
    over the prairies and the deep trees,
    the mountains and the rivers.
    Meanwhile the wild geese, high in the clean blue air,
    are heading home again.
    Whoever you are, no matter how lonely,
    the world offers itself to your imagination,
    calls to you like the wild geese, harsh and exciting —
    over and over announcing your place
    in the family of things.

    That must be one of the most beautiful poems ever written. It embodies wildness; it offers a path out of despair and loneliness. It embraces love and wild geese and imagination.


    Paul C. – Thanks for your loving and beautiful thoughts for our countless living companions in nature. I sometimes reflect when looking at a great tree, “You are one of my ancient parents, without you and all your wonderful tribe I would not be here. And your presence makes we humans able to survive on what would be a barren desert without you. Thanks so much for being here….”

  • I dedicated the “Wild Geese” to Sabine’s “Animal Spirit”….

  • I love Mary Oliver’s poetry, and I have a very special place in my heart for “Wild Geese”. Thank you, mike.

  • We all know Holocaust.

    We all know Eli Wiesel.

    We all know Spielberg movies.

    Although a fictional novel, Schindler’s List was presented as a documentary.

    Do you know the word NAKBA?

    If so, how could you NOT know such an important word?

  • “It’s not so bad – if you’re a human being.”

    If you’re a human being in the somnambulant trance of the current empire, maybe it doesn’t seem so bad. If you are outside of that, even a little, it can seem pretty awful. Whether or not we will manage to run ourselves into complete extinction is still an open question, but the present trends are not encouraging. As someone closing in on 70, born on to a planet with only about a third of today’s human population, I could always find comfort in May Oliver’s world of “sun and the clear pebbles of the rain” – the sanctuary of nature – which is now rapidly and obviously changing into a place far less hospitable. It’s a bone-jarring and irrevocable loss.

  • ed, I don’t encourage using Mr. Chris Martenson as a purveyor of truth about climate science. He’s been working hard to disparage me and my work for years. He operates in an evidence-free zone. He’s exactly the type of patriarch I’ve been writing about lately.

  • “Dr:” Chris Martenson is NOT a climate scientist. He also believes capitalism can survive the elimination of economic growth. He is an “economist.” meaning a practitioner of a pseudo science called “economics,” which was created in the late 19th century by the ruling elite to replace the science of political economy, because the findings of that science led inevitably to the conclusions reached by its critic, Karl Marx, namely that capitalism functions via mass exploitation of human beings and the looting of the natural world, and that the system is hopelessly wracked by internal contradictions which inevitably lead to bigger and worsening crises.

    Sabine: i believe in invented the term iDiots, but will not claim copyright.:-)

  • tech note:

    NBL website server experiencing some issues. tech support is in the process of restoring functionality.

  • Izzy – I share your sadness that the sacred beauty of nature is being destroyed. And not just that but the wonderful things that the best among us have managed to create and share. Not to speak of all the ordinary innocent people trying to live good and decent lives in this global nightmare we call civilization. As for those most responsible for this global holocaust, and their numbers are legion including all those who mindlessly serve them, I must confess that if they were somehow wiped off the Earth – I would not be sorry to see them go. I suspect I am not the only one who feels that way….

  • Dr. Chris Martenson: “First of all, I am not an economist. I am trained as a scientist, having completed both a PhD and a post-doctoral program at Duke University, where I specialized in neurotoxicology. I tell you this because my extensive training as a scientist informs and guides how I think. I gather data, I develop hypotheses, and I continually seek to accept or reject my hypotheses based on the evidence at hand. I let the data tell me the story.”

  • “…Kunstler’s bending over backwards to support Gorge Zimmerman’s murder of Trayvon Martin. ‘Blacks have to get with the program’. And the open implication that Trayvon was too big, too scary and too black – and therefore deserved death – is way over my consideration and toleration line.”

    I read that too, with similar reaction. Poor blacks are totally outside the realm of BAU. So rather than see that as at least a potential block for resistance, the idea is to change them. But into what? Better consumers? What about seeing blacks as the avant-garde of resistance instead? Whose side is Kunstler on? With whom does he identify?

  • Mike K, thanks for posting the Solzhenitsyn quote and Mary Oliver’s Wild Geese. I posted both of these a couple of years ago on the NBL forum. Seeing them both in one day really lifted my spirits.

    To answer Caroline’s question, the NTHE Support group on Facebook is a nastiness-free zone, thanks to lots of rules about the content of posts and very good moderators who keep trolls either in line or out the door.

  • @Jeff S

    … a pseudo science called “economics,” which was created in the late 19th century by the ruling elite to replace the science of political economy, because the findings of that science led inevitably to the conclusions reached by its critic, Karl Marx, namely that capitalism functions via mass exploitation of human beings and the looting of the natural world, and that the system is hopelessly wracked by internal contradictions which inevitably lead to bigger and worsening crises.”

    Perfect synopsis. I wished I had learned that at school some decades ago when I was young, that would have spared me a lot of time doing private research, undoing the brainwash and learning the real lessons in the streets.

  • Guy,

    You’re not going to take a stance against those who openly deny the Jewish Holocaust–or any holocaust for that matter–on your website?

    Am I correct in assuming that you obviously didn’t lose any relatives in the concentration camps?

    Imagine you had lost your wife, I suspect you might have a different opinion as to what is or isn’t acceptable ‘free speech”.

  • ogardener ~

    the only possible honest answer, I believe, is to see all of it, with eyes wide open. not to pick and choose. not to focus on any one or another as being lesser or greater.

    there is a long, long list. they are all equal expressions of one fundamental fact: our chosen marriage to a force of ignorance, whatever it may be called ~ our animal nature, The Opponent, our genetic programming, the collective Shadow, whatever… a choice to stay in a level of existence that actively excludes realization of the truth that is always, no exceptions, right there in our hearts:

    the fundamental knowledge of right from wrong.

    we always know. in one form or another. every Conquistador, every Nazi extermination camp guard, every consumer of the planet, large or small… the knowledge of what we are doing to all our fellow beings, the knowledge that we are only killing ourselves by killing “the Other” : this knowing is always there.

    it cannot be anything but there, as our Oneness is woven into the fabric of the Universe more deeply than anything else.

    this is the Truth of Suffering, in all forms. the truth that has been expressed in so many ways, including this way:

    The Four Noble Truths: all life is suffering, the cause of suffering is ignorant desire, this desire can be destroyed, the means to this is the Eightfold Path.

    can a rock un-choose being a rock? no. it never had any choice in the matter to begin with. yet humans can indeed un-choose our ignorance. this is only possible because, however it happened, we made the choice, at some point, of ignorance. of choosing wrong over right.


    my personal approach is that ignorance cannot be un-chosen (in whatever way we can, in whatever time we have left) with any partial measures.

    this applies to my own personal transformation, and to the way I see the world. there is no genocide or holocaust that is greater or lesser. none that can be ignored, or pretended away. knowledge of right from wrong is only possible if it is all seen and accepted for just what it is. in every last detail. the details of the holocaust of the Americas. the details of the multi-thousand year persecution of the Jews, the details of the Armenian genocide, the Holodomor, the Nakba, and every single other butchery, tragedy, horror and blight that we have inflicted on each other and on the world…

    we need to own it all. we have the grace, power and fortitude to do just that, as we have that always unbroken connection to our real Nature: the One itself.

    this is not about collective guilt or punishment. the One itself already owns all of this horror. when we move completely out of self-hatred, self-doubt, and fear of punishment, and actually forgive ourselves for our forgetfulness, the world of Light, and all our infinite power to heal, is handed right back to us, instantly, absolutely no questions asked.

    the only question that ever stops any being from taking that step, is the question we can’t help but ask ourselves: “how can I possibly be worthy?”

    no worries. the answer is inevitable.


    a diamond of a hint from Bodhi Paul:

    Awareness, compassion and love are our only true birthrights. I plan to make them shine until my last breath.

  • Stop hating gay, non-white people and focus your hatred on the rich.
    That way you’re more inclusive.

    U.S. Cops Kill Almost 400 Civilians In 5 Months At The Rate Of 2.6 People Per Day. This Is Before TSHTF!

  • @Jeff S. Hmm, then these folks should obviously close up shop:

    @ed, “chaos” does not mean “absolutely anything can happen”. While it is impossible to predict exactly what temperature (pressure, salinity, toxicity, etc.) it will be where on a certain date, it IS possible to predict that organisms cannot survive in a chaotic environment. Do you see that important difference?

    If you are ONLY looking at flows of one variable (sand, heat, radioactivity, then prediction is hard, but (as I view it) paradoxically, as multiple variables increase in contributing to chaotic behavior, a kind of consistency emerges: a consistency of chaos, that is not survivable by organized and organizing life-forms.

    Chaos ITSELF CAN BECOME the limiting factor, as opposed to some sub-factor like temperature or acidity.

    Like back in the day with ulvfugl, clinging to “quantum” this and that.. saying something is not entirely predictable by us is not the same thing as saying that there’s a chance things will be ok. If my house catches fire, and there’s nothing to put it out, it doesn’t matter whether the eastern part of the roof goes before the western part, or whether the polyester curtains just melt or are completely carbonized.. 1.) I can’t track the particulars of the fire, but I don’t need to, 2.) the particulars only SEEM incomprehensible, but in fact they all follow physical laws. It’s only our lack of perception and “computing power” that makes them seem inscrutable and thus we dub the whole thing a black box. I don’t think there really are black boxes, yet Martenson and others hang their hats on that convenient construct.

    @Sabine, I would have laughed too.

    @Tom, isn’t that a riot? I like his recommendations: “Breathe shallowly”.

    @Paul C. Indeed. Even on solely human terms, the relative lack of war only makes the coming reckoning that much worse. Kathy C. had wonderful comments to this end, back when she frequented the NBL threads.

  • @mo, where on earth (or elsewhere) do you get the idea that we have such a range of “choice”?

    It may or may not be better to live in ignorance of the fact that our living is someone else’s dying in the short term, and our own dying in the long term. I think the jury is out on that. While it’s pretty fucking obvious that this is how it works for all living creatures—not one does not live on death—what difference does our level of awareness of this fact make? We’re still sitting here with the lights on, tapping away on the plastic keyboard, just like everyone else in the Western world.

  • Lidia ~

    elsewhere, of course!

    “Must investigate.”


    (if you know what I mean. nudge nudge wink wink…)


    seriously though, the fundamental understanding that our living is someone (or something) else’s dying is only the first baby step. (but so many even lack appreciation of *that* reality… but I won’t go there for now).

    now, to get to this question.

    what difference does our level of awareness of this fact make?


    are you kidding?

    (really, you must be kidding?)

    I am not saying anything about outcomes, or changes in our trajectory. but the idea that our ignorance has all along been some kind of bliss is just…? and we should still stay ignorant??

    I don’t know what to say. maybe you are just being mindlessly provocative (again), and I am wasting my time banging on these keys.

    but even the slightest movement, anywhere, in any way, towards more awareness is worth it. it always is. I have never not felt that to be the case, but maybe that is just me (but it’s not).

    just call me… Transformation Man.

    woOt wOoT!

  • @moflo

    “worth it.”

    What is IT?
    Every time I thought, “this is IT.”
    IT wasn’t.

  • Heaven forbid that little ol’ GCC put a crimp in your over-consumerist and materialist lifestyle. BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Take yer statins and lose a few pounds eh? As the Bohdi fight over the last cans of irradiated Fukushima Pacific tuna at COSTCO.

  • mo flow – I like your philosophy. I also believe that we all know deep in our hearts what is right and what is wrong. Learning to be aware of that “higher self” is a key to growing in the right way.

    Many years ago my AA sponsor told me. “Whenever anything goes wrong, tell your self ‘It is my fault’ – even if it’s not.” Talk about a confusing koan! It took me some years to realize the wisdom of his counsel. He also advised me to read Magnificent Obsession by Loyd Douglas. In the book a Doctor extends help to a man in dire need, with one proviso – he must never tell anyone who helped him, and if an opportunity arose to help someone else, he should also swear them to secrecy about his helping them, and never let anyone know what he had done.

    Some years later I worked intensively in a Sufi group and learned of the Malmati (the blameworthy ones) and my sponsor’s advice became even more clear to me. A friend of mine says, “The ego is a great thief – it will steal credit for anything you do.”

    When Bodhidharma came to China, the Emperor heard that a great sage was coming from India, so he set out to meet him at the border in company with his impressive entourage. When Bodhidharma stood before him he asked, “I have built over a thousand Buddhist Temples. What merit will I accrue?” Bodhidharma answered “No merit!”

    @mt – The basic koan of Korean Zen is “What is it?”

  • The Pervert Is Back! Yes siree, the Pervert is Back!

    And he’d like you all to know his cracked feet and toes are doing much better, now that he has started binding them up in duct tape!

    Ah, of all the marvels of industrial civilization duct tape is pretty darn sweet!

    Better yet, I’ve taped them up after slathering copious amounts of super whitening toothpaste gel on them too!

    (As an aside, I’m trying two different brands of toothpaste to see which one works best! One spearmint flavored for those of you so inclined to know!)

    Mrs. Haydukes still thinks I’m an idiot, but at least this way as I traipse thru her garden hauling our humanure about I’m not making an ungodly gooey mess of the soil, or my feet!

    Whoopee! I really like my duct tape silver booties! I’m a prancing silver shod surfer tip toeing through the tulips!

    And the squishy feeling of this toothpaste elixir working its magic as it oozes between my toes and around my feet is quite refreshing too!

    Life is really good!

    The only minor set back is when I have to rip the duct tape off — Ms. Haydukes refusing to allow me into bed attired this way; but, hey, at least she let’s me in the house now!

    Tugging the duct tape off hurts a bit as my legs, befitting my perverted ape-ness, are quite hairy!

    But, so far, the initial results of this tonic on my cracked skin is quite astonishing!

    Oh, Sabine, I wish you could see!

    Why they even have a nice minty aroma to them! (Well, one of them does.) And the shine on my toenails — whoa — it’s near blinding!

    So, rejoice good folk of NBL, the Pervert Is Back and his news is merry indeed!

    The birds are singing, the geese honking, the ducks quacking, doves cooing, and the bees are busy!

    Well, actually, it is raining today and rather quiet outside, but if it were sunny that’s what they would be doing!

    But the rain is a damn fine thing too! A gratifying relief in fact to the oak trees, pines, apples, pears, maples, horse chestnuts, rose of sharons, beach plums, walnut trees, locusts, trumpeter vines, honeysuckle, irises, fox gloves, pink lady slippers, may flowers, and roses!

    A steady but gentle rain it is too, just right to quench the spring dryness in my neck of the woods that was growing worrisome — but not anymore!

    So lay down your burdens and worries for what tomorrow brings, because right here, right now, the Pervert is back, and he is merry!

    Oh, and one other thing; I’m still taking a count of who wants to go night swimming later on this summer in the kettle pond I know of — that’s something cheerful, beyond the daily doom and gloom, to look forward too! As long as you don’t mind swimming in the dark with a naked pervert!

    Until then, fair thee well fellow pilgrims!

    God, I love exclamation points!!!

  • mt ~

    IT is LOVE.

    this is elementary. it is knowing the right choices ~ expressing love, living love ~ from the wrong choices: greed, hate, thoughtlessness. and acting accordingly.

    it is the difference between the blessing, and the appreciation, of a life given for the sustenance of another life, vs. the brutal slaughter of a life, simply to take, with no appreciation whatsoever.

    it is the difference between killing to defend family or friend, vs. killing to steal a wallet of cash and credit cards to feed an addiction.

    going further, it could be refusing to kill any living thing, to any extent possible, even at the sacrifice of one’s own life, or the lives of one’s loved ones.

    IT is harmony and mindfulness, expressed, searched for, strived for, in a million possible ways.

    IT is grace, forgiveness, and compassion.

    IT is all of this, and much much more.

    so, to answer your question. “is is worth it”: to me, this only means knowing, in some way, somehow, that I have lived in alignment with the energies I describe here as IT, and not in alignment with the energies that are NOT it.

    and yes, for me, in my heart, it is always worth it, to strive for more of IT, and less of the other stuff. I could short circuit all of this challenge, just choosing to live only in IT’s Light, away from the world, but I find the challenges and joys and failings of living in the world, far more worth it.


    my sincere apologies for the overpost. I just want to make some basic things, as I see them, very clear, right now.

  • thanks for the response, moflo

  • @mo, I’m not trying to be “mindlessly provocative”.. I never am!

    I used to be like you, in that I really did not get the “ignorance is bliss” thing. I was ADAMANT that everything was worth knowing, worth investigating, and I am still so curious that I can’t turn my brain off at night because there is so much to learn and take in.

    But at the same time it doesn’t matter, does it? I can see why you might *say* it matters, but perhaps you can elaborate? In what real way does it matter? Because the books I read still chew up trees, and the candles you light still require the enslavement of bees, and yeah, we’re both here tripping the light fantastic. And it makes no difference in the outcome of things.

    I didn’t know, and didn’t suffer. Then I knew, and I suffered. Now I feel beyond suffering (or better…it either all seems like suffering or it all seems like not-suffering) and I can take or leave knowing, because knowing doesn’t assist me any longer.

    Someone before mentioned Shakespeare, Beethoven, etc. Those are exquisite outgrowths of human energy and expression, but they don’t matter. For all we know a thousand better poets’ work was burned in Alexandria.. it’s all just anthropocentric fetishizing, along with reaching “heaven” or establishing colonies on Mars. As for music, it’s almost as though it was never meant to be written down or recorded.. that’s only a very recent capacity. I know I would be more inclined to play music or sing my own crappy tunes if I didn’t have sublime versions of any sort of music on tap 24/7. But that wouldn’t take up as much energy in the aggregate… ;-)

    @mt. Exactly, what is IT? What is the goal? I just no longer see human life as being goal-oriented any longer, except to the extent that we hew to physical and thermodynamical rules. There is no life “goal”, there is only a life process.

    I don’t think we have more of a range of choices than do other creatures (I think some of us like to think so, though). We’re back to the same unwarranted illusion of Agency I’ve talked about before…

  • Phew!

    I have been trying to post this critical new data from Robert Scribbler for two days.
    This is my 6th attempt.

    It is strong confirmation of very significant methane release in the Arctic.

    Robert has reposted twice, so his alarming methane blockbuster data is two posts below.

    “Over the past few months, reporting stations around the Arctic have shown a ramping rate of atmospheric methane accumulation. The curves in the graphs are steepening, hinting at a growing release of methane from a warming Arctic environment.”

    The powerfully predictive graphs won’t copy here, but you will see them at the site.

    “Alert, Canada Methane June 1 2015(Alert, Canada methane graph shows atmospheric methane increases in the range of 20 parts per billion in just one year. This rate of increase is 2-3 times the global average for the past five years. A skyrocketing rate of increase. Image source: NOAA ESRL.)”

    Even a perennial optimistlike Robert is now openly admitting that he can see the increasing probability of impending doom from abrupt Arctic methane release.

    This may be the summer of ultimate concern.

    The evidence for NTE is accelerating by the day.

    at Robert Scribbler – Arctic methane levels skyrocketing.

  • Seems like the only people that find something great about Western Culture are comfortable, well-fed and outspoken. Western Culture would not even exist without having wiped out or having thoroughly destabilized every other culture on the planet unable to stand up for itself. We’re talking many, many times the number of people killed in World War Two. If people had a resource worth having and they stood in the way…into the meat grinder they went!

    All those countless millions should be added to the list of war dead. The wars never stopped just because some assholes put dates on each end of them. Don’t kid yourselves. During the times that armies clashed, the stage was simply being set for the winners to cannibalize the weak and the poor.

    When people starve and die because you take what they needed to live, it’s cannibalism, pure and simple. It’s as surely cannibalism as if you had devoured their flesh, prepared and set before you at table.

    And if you want to look at pretty pictures and listen to lovely music while you eat, go ahead, maybe you won’t remember how you looked in the mirror with that bone through your nose!

  • If we’re all one universe splintered into tiny separate “awareness” (or not), what are we all going on about? It’s all happening all at once, and that’s IT (mo). Realize what you realize, play your role, be you – what else is there to ‘do?’ Accept the universe of pain, joy, or whatever you feel until it subsides and morphs into the next moment. Acknowledge it and let it go.

    Right now we’re in the process of witnessing the 6th mass extinction, which includes us before long.

  • (sorry for the multiple post)

    It ISN’T
    IT is all an illusion

    (I don’t know)

    I do I agree, as much as I can, that “life is not a goal”
    I’ve never thought IT was

  • The mad ones are running around acting “normal”.
    Pathology has been fully normalized, and rationalizations keep popping up as the actual being state of normalized pathology, i.e. complicity in neo-colonialism, neo-imperialism, beneficiary from genocide, etc. Being that is rather tense and upsetting. And results in all kinds of defensive behavior. I revisited Freud last week and began to see the heavy trauma playing out in people – especially the perps. Psychic nullification, reduction of self-inflicted pain, deanial of life, “the death instinct”. Reduction of tension, work and effort. Return to the relaxing state of non-being in the eternal fold. All that. I am seeing better the monstrous psychic and social wound unfolding in the human community as realization of “it” takes hold, grips and paralyzes. Nothing will be normal in the normal sense for here on in. Until this is grokked and transcended….OK. It won’t.

    The previous video that didn’t take on the last post I borrowed from The Artist Taxi Driver’s “Westmonster”. Brilliant Analysis of British History and Neo-Imperialism, Neo Colonialism

  • AJ Says:
    June 2nd, 2015 at 1:26 pm

    “Dr. Chris Martenson: “First of all, I am not an economist. I am trained as a scientist, having completed both a PhD and a post-doctoral program at Duke University, where I specialized in neurotoxicology. I tell you this because my extensive training as a scientist informs and guides how I think. I gather data, I develop hypotheses, and I continually seek to accept or reject my hypotheses based on the evidence at hand. I let the data tell me the story.”” (plus URL)

    Right, all there is to do is gather “data.” What sort of “data”? Judging by everything i’ve read from Martenson and other people he posts at Peak Prosperity (his site), it’s data based upon prices, as if social relations of production are inherently based upon money. Basing everything upon “data” is called “empiricism,” That’s one of the worst aspects of the ruling elite view of the world. He totally buys into the fundamental notions which underlay economics. See this by “my twin brother” Jack Straw re money fetishism, which has links to two earlier articles by him on the general topic of capitalism..

    Lidia Says:
    June 2nd, 2015 at 3:33 pm
    “@Jeff S. Hmm, then these folks should obviously close up shop:
    (URL for Jewish Genetics)”

    Indeed they should. Search for this, i’m leaving out the URL to avoid complicating the posting of tho comment.
    October 2013 study: substantial prehistoric European ancestry of many Ashkenazi Jews

    Cam you answer my question? If Jews are an ethnicity, how is it that they span the physical types from black Africans to nordic Europeans? I myself by the way have reddish light brown hair and blue eyes, like many people of Jewish background from Central and Eastern Europe, just like their non-Jewish neighbors, just like the Alans from whom i hypothesize many European Jews are descended.

  • Since Lidia is ingraining the two-opsts limit, as are others, i will make an exemption to my usual practice and post for the third time today, sorry, though given i don’t post every day i think i deserve some accumulated points. :-) Here’s the URL to the genetics of European Jews.

    Daniel: Like Guy says, WTF? Is Guy supposed to comment on every nutcase post here,or otherwise be tagged with the grossly offensive opinions voiced? That’s not reasonable.

  • I just got time to watch the video presentation above in full.

    It would be great to hear the Q and A too in a separate vid.

    Some of the ideas of the other two guests are shot to pieces by Guys central point, form Tim Garret, that Industrial Civilisation is a heat engine thingy. Would be interesting to see these guys try and Misere Guy’s Misere.


    Live in free-fall, and embrace the moment.

    That’s all there is.

  • Great clip, Wester.

    It all started with a war on women.


    Thanks for that post Kirk.

  • The New Yorker

    JUNE 1, 2015 ISSUE

    Project Exodus: What’s behind the dream of colonizing Mars? BY ELIZABETH KOLBERT

    Mission to “Mars

    Or as retitled in Dave Cohen’s Decline of the Empire 06/01/2015

    No Matter Where You Go, There You Are

    “We’re back to the same unwarranted illusion of Agency I’ve talked about before…”

    Tradition has it that the realised person, having neither a sense of “I” nor a sense of “not-I”, has no sense of “I am the doer” or “I am the enjoyer” or “I am the sufferer” like a person in a lucid dream. In the absence of any expectations, the person is also totally hopeless.

  • Hello all;

    just a few points as to why Dr Guy may just have a slight leaning towards a “not too optimistic” attitude.

    Peak CO2 at Manua Loa last year was 401.9 ppm

    Peak CO2 at Manua Loa this year IS 404.11 ppm

    The house is on fire and were still pissing petrol on it!

    The only thing that keeps me going is direct action “the optimism of the action outwieghs the pessimism of the thought”. For example, I now make sure that nothing in my house is left in standby (vampire) mode, not because I think it will save the world but because I take pleasure from depriving the facists who supply my electricity of one penny. We all came into this world kicking and screaming, we should all “Rage against the dying of the light”.


  • Re: Mission to Mars.

    If shitting is your problem when you’re out there in the stars, oh the intergalactic laxative will get you from here to Mars.

  • There’s been a lot of back and forth about “It” on this exchange. Reminds me of my young-guys-seeking-the-truth-anywhere-they-can find-it high school days. This became an anthem of sorts – from the poet-pen of Peter Gabriel – from the album The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway:


    When it’s cold, it comes slow
    It is warm, just watch it grow
    All around ya
    It is here, it is now

    Just a little bit of it can bring you up or down
    Like the supper it is cooking in your hometown
    It is chicken, it is eggs, it is in between your legs
    It is walking on the moon, leaving your cocoon

    It is the jigsaw, it is purple haze
    It never stays in one place, but it’s not a passing phase
    It is in the single’s bar, in the distance of a face
    It is in between the cages, it is always in its space
    It is here, it is now

    Any rock can be made to roll if you’ve enough of it to pay the toll
    It has no home in words or goal, not even in your favorite hole
    It is the hope for the dope who rides the horse without a hoof.
    It is shaken, not stirred, cocktails on the roof

    When you eat right fru-it you see everything alive
    It is inside spirit, with enough grit to survive
    If you think that it’s pretentious, you’ve been taken for a ride
    Look across the mirror sonny, before you choose, de-cide
    It is here, it is now,
    It is real, it is Rael

    ‘Cause it’s only knock and know all, but I like it
    Yes it’s only knock and know all, but I like it

    Peter Gabriel

  • Many postings about love, freedom, happiness, kindness, compassion, tolerance, more love, & understanding;, including Buddha, Krisnamurti, dharma, non attachment, mindlessness, who cares, the Tao, etc; but nothing, or almost nothing, about truth.

    Seldom, if ever, do we hear; “Is it true?”

    Much has been written about the rampant brain numbing relativism in our modern culture, especially among the young.

    Here are three simple aphoristic statements from Bucky Fuller w/o any impenetrable philosophy, lit crit, or word-smithing.

    The first is especially poignant in this time of doom & despair.

    “All of humanity is in peril of extinction if each one of us does not dare, now and henceforth, always to tell only the truth, and all the truth, and to do so promptly — right now.”

    “The highest of generalizations is the synergetic integration of truth and love.”

    “The nearest each of us can come to God is by loving the truth.”

    With all due respect to Guy’s dictum that only love remains, I would add that love of truth remains as well, at least for some of us.

    Some of us were conditioned by human/scientific culture to always try to tell the truth.

    Much of our culture is doing the exact opposite.

    The majority of our elitist “leaders/controllers” are completely corrupt & outright liars.

    The preposterous fabrications & lies about the bloody genocides in Iraq, Palestine, Libya, & Syria are beyond belief.

    Much of what we have been taught as gospel is false.

    Yet it still bothers me that if humankind goes extinct, the capacity of some of humankind to seek what is true, beautiful, & good will go extinct too, at least for a few million years.

    I think it would be good to take Bucky Fuller’s first aphorism as a guide on the way out.

    I am trying to do it as I prepare for my own death.

    I do it because it gives me the greatest satisfaction & relief from complete depair.

  • האווז אני קיים

  • I must share our own Scottish folk hero comedian Frankie Boyle’s take on the UK election.

    long live the resistance