Degrees of Cluelessness

by Alton C. Thompson

While “surfing” the internet two weeks ago (June 27, 2015) I came across an article—a review article, specifically—that I found of considerable interest.  The article—“Crossing the River of Fire:  The Liberal Attack on Naomi Klein and This Changes Everything”—appeared in the February 2015 issue of the Monthly Review:  An Independent Socialist Magazine (with which I have no familiarity), and was authored by John Bellamy Foster and Brett Clark.  Bellamy is the editor of the Monthly Review, and also a Professor of Sociology; Clark is an Associate Professor of Sociology.

The article not only reviews Naomi Klein’s recent (2014) This Changes Everything:  Capitalism vs. The Climate, but comments on a large number of reviews of the book (!)—by, specifically, Rob Nixon, Dave Pruett, Elizabeth Kolbert (author of The Sixth Extinction:  An Unnatural History[1]), David Ulin, Michael Signer, Mark Jaccard, Will Boisvert, and Erle Ellis.

As I read this review article, I asked myself:  “Do not the Klein book, the comments on the book by Foster and Clark, and the eight reviewers that they comment on represent varying degrees of cluelessness?!  Why is it that none of them seems to realize the utter seriousness of the problem of global warming?  Are all of them such “captives” of conventional thinking that none is able to “think outside the box”?  Or, rather, is each so oriented to what is, and is not, “acceptable” to peers that none is willing to “think outside the box”?  (Perhaps not even being conscious of being ruled by what their peers think.)

Frankly, I don’t know what explains their cluelessness, but for one thing it seems clear—to those of us in Guy McPherson’s “camp,” at least—that cluelessness pervades our society.[2]  Perhaps not just regarding global warming, of course, but it’s that cluelessness that’s of especial importance, for it has been leading us in the wrong direction—toward the demise of our species!

What so many who comment on global warming seemingly fail to realize is that unless one chooses the proper starting point for their discussion, whatever they write is little more than “hot air.”

What is the “proper” starting point?  Recognition of the (highly probable) facts that (a) it’s likely that we’ve already entered a period of “runaway,” that (b) because of that strong possibility, change (i.e., an increase in the global mean and its correlates—such as increased storminess) is likely to accelerate (another way of saying that global warming is a process that tends to “feed on itself”), (c) there being no possibility of halting the process, so that (d) the phenomena associated with global warming will, at some point in time (20302040?) cause the demise of our species.

Some have argued that geo-engineering is our “way out.”  However, my view is that because the mentality that advocates geo-engineering is the same sort of mentality that has brought us to the brink (!), I have little reason to have confidence in geo-engineering.  Besides, many scientists are skeptical of geo-engineering, with Al Gore even terming the idea “insane”!

Now if “our days are numbered” (the subtitle of Guy McPherson’s “Nature Bats Last” web site), what better response to that strong possibility than “passionately pursue a life of excellence” (the remaining part of the subtitle to “Nature Bats Last”?!).

The beauty of this advice is that it lacks specificity—enabling each individual to interpret the advice in a manner that “fits” that person—in terms of abilities, interests, financial resources, etc.

The problem with that advice, of course, is that following it will not “save” our species.  But, then, nothing will, evidently, so that working to make this world a “better place” while waiting for the inevitable is about the best advice that I, at least, can imagine!

[1] Published on my birthday earlier this year!

[2] I would guess, though, that this is the case ultimately because of the “faith-based [!} belief in the invisible hand of the market as a natural law, or form of Providence” that has played such an important role in this country’s history—and has so “muddled” the thinking of so many in our society that cluelessness comes natural to many in our society!

Comments 118

  • Great post.

    Perhaps not just regarding global warming, of course, but it’s that cluelessness that’s of especial importance, for it has been leading us in the wrong direction—toward the demise of our species!” – Alton C. Thompson

    According to the Union of Concerned Scientists, a substantial portion of that cluelessness is attributable to the deceptive propaganda campaign conducted for decades by big oil:

    As the picture of fossil fuel companies’ efforts to deceive the public comes into clear view, the time is ripe to hold these companies accountable for their actions and responsible for the harm they have caused.

    These documents build a case for why these companies must stop sowing doubt and must be held accountable for their share of responsibility for global warming

    (The Criminally Insane Epoch Arises – 4).

    Agnotology is the study of ignorance generators within society (ibid).

  • @Alton:vFrankly, I don’t know what explains their cluelessness, but for one thing it seems clear—to those of us in Guy McPherson’s “camp,” at least—that cluelessness pervades our society.[2] Perhaps not just regarding global warming, of course, but it’s that cluelessness that’s of especial importance, for it has been leading us in the wrong direction—toward the demise of our species!


    Would that be the same cluelessness that pervades the clueless commentariat’s constant combat here…or are you talking about a different cluelessness?

    Only love remains!

  • Stop me if you’ve heard this one before:

    So this guy walks into the therapist’s office and sits down. The therapist notices that he has a strip of bacon wrapped around each ear, and a fried egg on his head.

    The guy looks at the therapist for a minute, and then blurts out, “Doc, you gotta talk to my wife. She’s fuckin’ nuts!”.

  • Something slightly off maybe…..

    Is Nature Coming to Bat?

    Yesterday was the first day of an annual golf tournament in which I once participated. It was close by my home, only a few miles away. The tournament organizers, as they always did, were offering free burgers for all who wanted them, and it seemed like half the city did want them. Since I had taken part many times in this tournament, I didn’t feel too guilty about the free meal.

    The day was hazy, windless, and the air seemed heavy, and strange. It was hot, almost 40 degrees C. (104 F) and I wondered how the golfers must have felt during their round. The air was almost oppressing. It was six in the evening and many children, who were also welcome at this tournament, were running around the place, oblivious of the climate change event that was taking place in front of their eyes. Little did they know that an old guy, me, was
    watching them, wondering what kind of life they would have, if any.

    Like all children, they were carefree, laughing, inventing putting contests on their own, just being happy to be alive and cared for, as all children can and should be cared for, while their parents just let the evening unfold as it should, well almost anyway.

    I felt the oppressive heat over our relatively small city. We had a choice of either going inside the clubhouse or staying on the grounds outside. We chose the outside, even though the air conditioning inside was running at full throttle, but even there the air felt strange, as if it came from an air mass bearing new weather systems, one of a number of passing phases which would bring a new meaning to the word weather.

    I had read in the last few days that an El Nino event from the Pacific was thought to be the instigator of this hot and stationary air mass sticking around the Pacific Northwest of America and making temperature records fall like dominoes. In short, here was Mother Nature Coming to Bat.

    The fires that raged in British Columbia at this time in early July were unprecedented. There were hundreds across the province and in Washington State, completely unattended and out of control. Fire fighters were spread so thin that the military had joined them while others from as far as Australia and New Zealand were joining the force. Meanwhile, back on the golf course.

    For the most part, the golfers at the tournament seemed a lot more subdued, eerily quiet in fact, than I had remembered during the days when my golf swing was somewhat better than Charles Barkley’s. For
    those unfamiliar with that motion, maybe thinking of a rhino playing water polo could fit the bill. Very few golfers seemed at ease with whatever they were doing. Fewer still seemed engaged in friendly chatter with the usual easy-going camaraderie found at this event. Everything seemed a little off, just enough to give me the impression that all was not well, that something stranger than strange lingered in the air.

    As I try to negotiate with my computer Hal The Roid from Zenon, at three in the morning, the sweat coming down my forehead is reminding me of the day ahead, and that all will not be well in the world of humans, most especially in this neck of the woods, those which are not yet burning. There has been an uncomfortable reddish tint in the sky this past week, and if one listens closely enough, one can hear nature singing: “I’ve come to play ball”.

    The meal was always splendid. A simple bun filled with one’s choice of sliced beef or sliced pork. I chose the pork, being that my girth somewhat reminds me of that choice. And then it happened, a moment I had never dreamed would happen just yet, which again eerily reminded me that the batter in the box was no longer familiar. It was nature coming to the plate, and the announcer, a woman in her forties sitting at a table with her friends, said: “Climate Change”.

    I was almost floored. My first instinct was to stop and ask her why she had uttered the dreaded phrase. But the temptation soon passed as I noticed that her companions were absolutely silent, as if she was talking to trees. I felt like yelling at the top of my voice: “Did you not hear what this woman just said?” What are you doing pretending all is ok when your sky is no longer blue, the air is afoul with smoke, the temperature is unbearable, and that your children are running around completely oblivious of the game being lost?”

    I guess my story ends there for today. Thanks for reading, hope it has some meaning for you.

  • Klein and McKibben are funded by corporations to spearhead public acceptance of government-corporate control of any near term carbon taxes. They are a direct oppositional response to James Hansen’s idea that any carbon tax dividends should be payable 100% back to the citizenry, with absolutely no share for government corporations. Klein and McKibben are journalists, which puts them ever so slightly below politicians and lawyers on the despicability scale.

    Hansen’s dream has a snowball’s chance in hell, not that it would make any difference. The Rockefellers, who founded the oil age, divested from oil and fund Klein and McKibben to ensure access to government controlled carbon taxes.

    Kolbert exposed Klein getting money from the Ford Foundation for her husband’s video project about, what else?, her life’s story.

    The idea that tribalism is superior to European civilization is the stupidest idea I’ve ever heard. Looking for blame or causality is largely irrelevant and pointless.

    The Permian Extinction took 80,000 years after eruption.

    The Dinosaur Extinction took 33,000 years after impact.

    Human Extinction will take 33 years after Game Of Thrones.

    Resiliency permaculture is in denial of the violent orgy of cannibalism.

    Mass Extinction Speed Limit Barrier Broken from collapse

  • Thanks Alton

    Watching Showtime series Years of Living Dangerously. While they highlight much destruction around the globe – hard not to notice they spend a lot of time dwelling on question **is climate change manmade** — seems the focus on the series is to show climate change as human driven so as to convince we need to start doing things **differently** to **save the planet.**

    IMHO, on the universal time chart we are an infinitesimal speck of a speck.
    On the universal space chart we are an infinitesimal speck of a speck.

    Yet somehow we imagine ourselves as great protectors – wise apes – in charge of housecleaning the universe and rebuilding it in our image (boldly go). And this all takes plane in the universal nanowink of an eye – as a species, we come – we imagine – we perish.

    Can’t help but notice when I read Truthdig or Counterpunch or any of the others — that I’ve been reading the same tired articles for 40 years — tomes listing all our faults with a short conclusion – we better start doing things *differently* or we won’t be able to keep the caviar cold.

  • Jean T – Love your little piece. The foreboding in everyday life, like the early part of a Hitchcock movie…..

    Robert C – perm culture in denial of cannibalism……please don’t interrupt our dreams…..have a nice day…but don’t think about tomorrow….surely somebody will take care of everything….

    Bob S – I hate that warm caviar…and please chill my vodka very frosty cold….Будем здоровы!

  • Terrific Post, and it has spurned me to respond, yesterday I photographed a small park area on the north side of the St Lawrence river near Kingston Ontario, our local weather here this summer so far has been pleasant with just the right amount of rain to bring forth the lushness of the north shore,as in copious amounts of Virgina Creeper…but we have a major problem, hardly any birds nor insects to speak of…the silence while I photographed was unnerving to say the least.

    It was as if I captured Eden in the throes of death…

  • Great post, Alton. Thank you.

    Jean- blah blah blah. scroll scroll scroll, to quote Pat.

    In reference to the digression on population issues last thread:
    The MSM always trots out inflammatory topics like sports scandals, gay rights, and the kaboke theatre of politics to divert attention from topics that people Should be discussing, like climate change, the end of life as we know it, and the reasons behind all of it.
    Why do they do this? Because it Works, unfortunately.

    So now, Here on this site which has a set of basic premise ideas, we get the same thing, just another fucking distraction. Human primate numbers not a problem for you Jean Turncot? Fine, just go away.

    They say don’t feed the trolls. They say that if ignored for long enough, they might go away. That was my hope too … but if they’re on salary, that’s not going to happen, is it?

  • .
    Looking forward to war, famine, and pestilence.

    Just sitting on this runaway train, staring out the window, with a cat on my lap.
    Sadly, this is what we’ve come to:
    The Voluntary Extinction Movement says:
    “…thou shalt not procreate.”

    The Church of Euthanasia says:
    “Save the planet, kill yourself.”

  • James Says:
    July 10th, 2015 at 3:13 am
    “The constant vicious infighting in the comments of this website sadly perfectly demonstrates the warlike and aggressive nature of humans.”

    Love. Yeah it gets like that sometimes. Being more aware of what’s
    really happening, and what is going to happen can involve various emotional reactions, which are probably more intense than folks usually manifest. One of the prices for front row seats at the biggest disaster show ever to run.

    And beyond that, what we often show in our relations with others on the site is sometimes a capsule version of the big problem of how do we get along with each other – which is a main reason the disaster is happening. Who was it that said love something higher than your self, and treat others as your other selves, which they actually are. And he wasn’t the only one to diagnose our basic problem and suggest a cure. I guess we haven’t been very quick to pick up on that.

    Fortunately there are occasional rays of light that manage to penetrate our darkened cave, tearing us momentarily from the television shows of our culture. But the glaring clear light of reality outside the cave tends to stun us and disorient us in a new way. Whether their will be time to adjust to that new light of consciousness that some are experiencing has yet to be seen. The soothsayers are not in precise agreement, but their forecasts are not reassuring. Meanwhile many of us here and elsewhere will be dancing the steps of K. Ross’s stages of grief, waiting for an end which lingers in the mists of uncertainty, like Godot waiting for a cue to enter….

    PS – Paranoia doesn’t really help, neither does intolerance or xenophobia. Biting others to relieve an uncomfortable itch in yourself is ineffective for long term relief.

  • mike k, it’s only Paranoia if it’s not true.

    Sigh. Where is ulvfugl when you need him?

    All this bullshit about “why can’t we just all get along?”
    Where do you think you are?
    The planet is dying, and no, I have not come to the point where I can just accept this and not be angry and impatient with denier trolls.
    And your comments (and James’) about not getting along with others on this site is way too simplistic to even address.
    Why don’t you go to another tightly-specified-subject-blog-site, like white power, or evangelicals, and see how they react when someone from a totally alien paradigm invades their space and pontificates? Then threaten them with your passive aggressive unconditional love when they dare to debate or diss your premise… Creepy.

  • pat,

    Practice what you preach and you might become credible.

    Same for your church.

    Hypocrites are not credible.

    Give it up and live a life of excellence.

  • El Nino, the baby Jesus, Bhudda, Gawd, love, hate, the found heat, & the great dying.

    Why the recorded temperature of global heating is NOT worse now, but will almost surely be much worse very soon.

    Although 5 years old, this piece written in simple language about Kevin Trenberth’s simple thesis concerning the “missing heat” is classic scientific prediction.

    We can all observe the bizarre temperature increases & weather swings as El Nino proceeds to deliver our well deserved suicidal heat death in the next several months.

    The not-so-mysterious released stored heat from the deep ocean will almost certainly lead to a prompt large global heat spike & more observed deadly climate disruptions.

    Our soon to be observed ghastly heating tortures, including both fires & floods, will be commonplace.

    California could become “mud-luscious” in poetic terms.

    Our upcoming heat horrors & eventual heat death is looking us in our faces,& the big question is, who has the hemlock?

    The human experiment is finished – all the rest is foolishness & flapdoodle.

    Blathering about political change, carbon taxes, renewable energy, community, geoengineering, etc all smell of the ubiquitous noxious methane that will kill us all – every one.

    “Missing” heat may affect future climate change | UCAR – University Corporation for Atmospheric Research

  • The Monthly Review crew reflect the Maoist ideology of Baran and Sweezy, who founded the Magazine more than 60 years ago. They still believe in “development,” only now they think it can be made “green.” They’ve pushed back hard against analyses showing the global system as is cannot be run on “alternative” energy generation, because that would go counter to their plans, which center around a perspective of “socialism” as if it was based upon “planning” and different forms of ownership, rather than the abolition of capitalist social relations. It’s very illustrative that the first example in the first of three articles about capitalism written by “my twin brother Jack Straw,” an article titled “The American Left Doesn’t Get Capitalism.” was something that John Bellamy Foster wrote.

    Naomi Klein’s politics fit perfectly with the Monthly Review perspective.

  • This is my second (and last) post for today:
    I am not a member of either, just passing on the info.
    BTW: nothing is credible. Doubt reigns supreme. Trust is a convenience.
    “The soil of a man’s heart is stonier, Louis. A man grows what he can, and he tends it. ‘Cause what you buy, is what you own. And what you own… always comes home to you.”
    from “Pet Sematary” by Stephen King

  • Where indeed is ulvfugl when you need him.

    He’s heard and said it all before. He got fed up with regurgitating the same old, same old over and over again for every newcomer. I don’t blame him.

    the people here are passionate, that’s all, and we have every reason to be, don’t you think, with NTE on the horizon? Or do you have a problem with that concept? If you do, you’re in the wrong place.

    Wake up, we’re approaching the end of (multi-cellular)life on this Earth as we know it. That’s what NBL is all about. And by life I mean ALL life not just human culture – our lives – the favourite subject of most humans. If you can’t see that, well, maybe you should try and understand that before getting involved here.
    I see the people gathering here as witnesses, and if you don’t want to witness, well…..

  • If “only love remains”, how do we love each other while in hospice as our self-annihilation processes continue inevitably and irreversibly to unfold? For use in our Tacoma emotion-focused ESG and attachment support groups, and providing much more specific guidance than the vague, often-repeated, ancient instruction to “love one another”, here I have generalized and translated into E-Prime a paragraph found on page 192 in Les Greenberg and Rhonda Goldman’s 2008 book titled Emotion-Focused Couples Therapy, The Dynamics of Emotion, Love, and Power:

    We have two kinds of positive cycles. One relates to closeness and the other to identity. These cycles tend to merge, but it helps to identify two different components in positive cycles: nurturing and validation. When people nurture, they take care of each other, offer support, and attempt to meet each other’s needs for closeness and security. Responsiveness to nurture-related attachment needs ranges from caring and soothing another person emotionally, to doing helpful and nurturing things such as cooking or fixing things for them. When people validate each other they do something different. They see and understand the other, treat their identity needs as important, and confirm their identities. They value and respect the other, demonstrate sensitivity to the other’s preferences, and see positive qualities in the other. [Unfortunately, I have noticed exactly the opposite of this validation happening extremely often, and sometimes quite dramatically and brutally, on many blogs such as at Fractal Planet and Nature Bats Last as well as in many social situations, sometimes—especially unfortunately—even including various ESG venues, places designed, presumably, for us to support each other emotionally and socially, not to further invalidate and tear each other down.]

    We thus can think of positive cycles as either more nurturing or more validating. The former provide safety and security, the latter more confirmation and strengthening. In nurturing cycles, people feel caring and cared for, whereas in empathically validating cycles, they feel understanding and understood. These two positive feeling behaviors interact because people generally feel cared for when they feel understood by others, and feel understood when cared for. However, it helps to see that a person can feel nurtured or cared for by a mother or a nurse, for example, but not feel understood or validated, whereas one can feel understood and validated as a good person by a teacher or relative, say, but not nurtured or cared for. In fact, it remains possible and often occurs that people feel nurtured by parents or spouses who meet their needs for security, but they sense the caretaker as critical, making fun of them, or not proud of them, and therefore they do not feel validated. People do best when they both nurture and validate each other. For example, one person may offer both by saying, “Losing that account must have been really disappointing. You worked so hard, and to have it snatched away like that would make me sad and furious [validation]. What can I do? Would you like a cup of tea, a hug [nurturing]?

  • And a great comment from Ryan T. for the same article (I’ll add Katharine Hayhoe, born 1973, 1 kid to the list):

    Having taken “The Population Bomb” (1968), “The Limits to Growth” (1972), and Albert Bartlett’s exponential growth seriously decades ago, I never considered bringing a child into this world of suffering with only more to come. It amazes me how many experts in the supposed know have chosen to reproduce. Do they actually think it’s going to get better?

    Quote from a population/environmental activist friend:

    “This is why I am angered by those who are supposedly awake to the planetary damage humans are committing and to the irremediable conditions coming down the pike. For example, this condensed list is not reassuring:

    Charles Eisenstein–b. 1967–4 kids

    David Suzuki–b. 1936–5 kids (2 born after overpopulation moved to the front burner)

    Edward Abbey–b. 1927–5 kids (4 born after he knew better)

    Chris Hedges–b. 1956–4 kids (1 adopted)

    Naomi Klein–b. 1970–1 kid recently despite knowing what’s coming

    Dmitry Orlov–b. 1962–1 kid recently despite knowing what’s coming

    George Monbiot–b. 1963–2 kids (1 born in 2012)

    Sharon Astyk–b. circa late ’60s–4 kids

    Severn Cullis-Suzuki–b. 1979–2 kids

    Paul Beckwith–b. circa early ’60s–3 kids

    Jason Box–b. circa 1972–1 kid (born in 2011/2012)

    Gavin Schmidt–b. circa late ’60s– expecting 1st kid as of 2015

    Michael Mann–b. 1965–at least 1 kid

    And I won’t bother to analyze a few of these folks’ highly consumerist lifestyles. To paraphrase comedian Doug Stanhope (b. 1967, childfree by choice, helped along by his vasectomy), apparently if you can afford Montessori School, then your kids aren’t part of the problem.”

  • From

    “Arctic sea ice extent for June 2015 was the third lowest in the satellite record. June snow cover for the Northern Hemisphere was the second lowest on record. In contrast, Antarctic sea ice extent remained higher than average. The pace of sea ice loss was near average for the month of June, but persistently warm conditions and increased melting late in the month may have set the stage for rapid ice loss in the coming weeks.”

    On the topic of how people can live in denial: the privileged mind has to live in denial or it will go insane. How else could anyone sleep at night knowing that half the world lives on less than $2 a day (among many other horrors)? People remain in denial about climate mayhem because they don’t want to feel the way I feel. Some have even told me so flat-out.

  • We are utter fuckwits, for example read below, ‘our’ desire not offend leads us deeper into the shit )

    Hello Robert,
    As an Admin for the Near Term Human Extinction Support Group, I write to let you know we have declined to admit you due to the following reason.

    Your refusal is a unique one for us, and does not reflect on you except for your facebook name:
    “Robert Thankyoufornotbreeding Atack.”

    We work to ensure a supportive, inclusive environment, safe for a large and diverse membership, who are all grieving. Hence we don’t allow statements or comments that have proven to generate arguments and bad feelings due to divisive topics such as partisan politics, dietary or REPRODUCTIVE CHOICES, and illegal activities or subastances.

    Your name in itself would shame other members’ reproductive choices and create bad feelings each time you posted or commented on our wall were you to be admitted. As we stress respect for other members at all times, our decision was a necessary one. We regret any bad feelings.

    Kathy, Admin
    NTHE Admin Team
    14 hours ago
    Well have a happy extinction then, I changed my name 15 years or about 2 billion babies ago, just think how much suffering could have been prevented if dumb fucks like you were willing to offend the idiot breeders, I so hope you have children

  • @ Jean Turcot

    I did indeed enjoy (if I can use those words) your story of what happened at the golf tournament. I see signs all over the place now. Smokey skies come and go, but overall, the visibility day-to-day of and quality of the atmosphere is in decline. I think people (in general) are simply in denial of what we’re doing to our planet and/or are simply out of tune with Nature. We are mostly and Industrial Society now and think in an Industrial manner. I notice more and more trees that are in decline where I live (St. Paul, MN). They range from a few limbs with die-back to many trees now that didn’t even leaf out this spring… completely barren as if it were January!

  • Jean Turcot,

    Regarding your golf tournament story, why did you passively encourage and support the denial—as so many of us so often do—by remaining silent instead of saying something in support of the courageous, lone-voice woman’s comment?

  • I meant to post this here, but I ended up posting it on the preceding blog.

    Some powerful “clues/predictions” for both frogs & humans about how hot our arses will get.

    Click on the figures to absorb these deadly “clues/predictions” in more detail.


    CLIMATE PREDICTION CENTER/NCEP/NWSand the International Research Institute for Climate and Society 9 July 2015

    ENSO Alert System Status: El Niño Advisory

    Synopsis: There is a greater than 90% chance that El Niño will continue through Northern Hemisphere winter 2015-16, and around an 80% chance it will last into early spring 2016.

    During June, sea surface temperatures (SST) anomalies exceeded +1.0oC across the central and eastern equatorial Pacific Ocean (Fig. 1). The largest SST anomaly increases occurred in the Niño-3 and Niño-3.4 regions, while the Niño-4 and Niño-1+2 indices remained more constant through the month (Fig. 2).

    Positive subsurface temperature anomalies weakened (Fig. 3) due to the eastward shift of an upwelling oceanic Kelvin wave, which reduced above-average temperatures at depth in the central and east-central equatorial Pacific (Fig. 4).

    In many respects, the atmospheric anomalies remained firmly coupled to the oceanic warming. Significant westerly winds were apparent in the western equatorial Pacific and anomalous upper-level easterly winds continued. The traditional and equatorial Southern Oscillation Index (SOI) were both negative, which are consistent with enhanced convection over the central and eastern equatorial Pacific and suppressed convection over Indonesia (Fig. 5). Collectively, these atmospheric and oceanic features reflect an ongoing and strengthening El Niño.

    Nearly all models predict El Niño to continue into the Northern Hemisphere winter 2015-16, with many multi-model averages predicting a strong event at its peak strength (3-month values of the Niño-3.4 index of +1.5oC or greater; Fig. 6).

    At this time, the forecaster consensus is in favor of a significant El Niño in excess of +1.5oC in the Niño-3.4 region. Overall, there is a greater than 90% chance that El Niño will continue through Northern Hemisphere winter 2015-16, and around an 80% chance it will last into early spring 2016 (click CPC/IRI consensus forecast for the chance of each outcome for each 3-month period).

    Across the contiguous United States, temperature and precipitation impacts associated with El Niño are expected to remain minimal during the Northern Hemisphere summer and increase into the late fall and winter (the 3-month seasonal outlook will be updated on Thursday July 16th).

  • Latest stirrings of the Methane Monster, but not a problem, as James Hansen’s successor asserts.

  • Yep it was my first post, points taken. I imagine there are a lot of people reading these comments and not contributing – Guy is pretty well known these days.
    On the topic of cluelessness this made me smile – these guys are *still* serious… climate deniers are not going away anytime soon…

  • **by remaining silent instead of saying something**

    Following the old adage – better to remain silent and let folks think you a fool, than say something and remove all doubt.

    Still beating that same old horse and promoting the same *emotional therapy* charlatans. It’s always nice to have you drop in to let us know that you’ll never invite us to the NTHE Support Group cause we’re so ugly and you all are above all that.

    Some good candidates here though — prepared to gush all over anything that moves — and never utter a discouraging word.

  • I have a chalange, try living a week buying no plastic

  • the easiest way is to put some lead in your head

  • Klein is an egomaniacal narcissistic dipshit who thinks green jobs and socialism will make her selfish desire to have a child in these time just a-okay. She probably wrote all that stupid socialist fucking nonsense just to justify her selfish desires. What really pisses me off is that I’m a socialist at heart.

    When her book came out she travelled all over the world to “speak” about it because she is so fucking wonderful she doesn’t have live by her own bullshit admonitions about reducing carbon. She wants green jobs, no austerity, living wages, corporate and wealth taxes, faeries, gnomes, unicorns and all the rest of her whacked out “visions”. The only person I despise more than her is dickface McKibben.

    Kolbert On Klein

    Klein On Kolbert (you sick fucks)

  • Martin ~ please stop violating the two post rule. this is your one and only warning. if you persist, I will see about having *all* your comments placed on the moderation approval flag.

    ~ mo

    as a reminder:

    The Two Post Rule: two posts per day per commenter are allowed in the main/current thread. unlimited posts are allowed in previous threads. overposts in the main thread will be deleted.

  • Not sure why you think either Elizabeth Kolbert’s work or Namoi Klein’s work exhibit “cluelessness”?

    I have read both and found neither “clueless”.

  • Bud Nye,

    You asked: “Regarding your golf tournament story, why did you passively encourage and support the denial—as so many of us so often do—by remaining silent instead of saying something in support of the courageous, lone-voice woman’s comment?”

    Excellent question Bud. Perhaps my first answer could be the that I was with my wife Denyse, and that she hears me rabble on about this subject every day. But that’s a lame excuse. When I was a little less self-critical of driving many miles to hit a little ball around the place and hence contribute ever more to the CO2 burden, I did ask golfers on many occasions about climate change, always with the same result. The offer to extend the conversation beyond that status was almost 100 % never made. Maybe I looked like a zombie who had just materialized out of nowhere to talk about global warming, and so if I wanted to play golf, I’ve ALWAYS had to change the subject.

    I did however wonder about what would have ensued if I had indeed stopped and talked with her about her statement. I even imagined how I would have approach her, and if of course I was intruding. As I mentioned in my short little story, I was actually shocked that I just happen to pass by someone at a golf course who had actually brought up the subject.

    Thank you for your most pertinent question, and I have promised myself that if such should ever happen again, I will indeed make it a point to stop and contribute to the conversation.

  • @AJ, Can we all sign an e-card to these folks?

    @Martin, buying no plastic for a week is easy. Buying no plastic for a year, not so much…

    @Elisabeth, Klein’s conceiving a child in order to give herself a reason for hope (IIRC the rationale she claimed in one statement I can’t find at the moment) is not only clueless and narcissistic, but imo borderline criminal. Kolbert is more on the ball. “Shock Doctrine” wasn’t bad, though… did bring the concept that the gov. is not on our side to the forefront of current discourse for a couple of seconds, at least.

    Maybe she thinks the kid will give her a reason to keep “fighting”..? At any rate, it seems more of a prop than anything, even the way she talks about it. Ugh.

    BILL MOYERS: How does a child change the way you see the world?

    NAOMI KLEIN: Well it lengthens your timeline definitely.

    Right. More kids lengthen our timeline?

    Look at this shite on her own web site:

    WS: I want to ask you about your decision to have a baby. Because as a parent myself, I’ve got two young children, and as a climate activist, I find it moving, and inspiring. And I’m just curious how you explain it.

    [ok, Wen Stephenson, you are a wanker.. As a “climate activist”, you find the ill-advised procreation of others “inspiring” because it justifies your own?? or what?]

    NK: Um… [long pause] Well, to be honest, for a long time, I just couldn’t see a future for a child that wasn’t some, like, Mad Max climate warrior thing. And, you know, I’d joke about it with my husband, like, you want to have a little climate warrior? [laughter] And it seems like that was the best thing I could imagine for a child. I couldn’t see a future that wasn’t just incredibly grim — maybe I’d seen too much sci-fi and read too much climate science. But I just couldn’t see it.

    That wasn’t the only reason I didn’t want to have kids. It was also that I couldn’t see how I’d do the kind of work that I do, the amount of travel, and the kind of high-risk travel that I was doing, with a kid. Especially in the years I was writing The Shock Doctrine, going to Iraq and going to tsunami zones. I’d done a lot of disaster hopping to write about disasters. Men with kids can do that, and nobody thinks they’re terrible people. But it is not the same for women. So it was a combination, feeling like there really aren’t a lot of women out there doing what I do, and I didn’t want to take myself out of the game, I didn’t want to put myself on the bench.

    I do feel that the assumption that all women should have children is a problem, so I don’t want to say anything that makes it sound like everybody should. I had genuine ambivalence about it. But then, I think, it was feeling more optimistic about the political moment, to be honest, that made me feel like I could see other possibilities. Something shifted after 2008. I could imagine a future that was not Mad Maxian. [laughter] Not that there’s any guarantee, but I could imagine it.

    So, that’s why I started late. And then it was really, really hard for me to have a kid. I was 38 when I started trying, and in the end I was told I wasn’t able to have kids, for a bunch of different reasons. So I had totally given up. Toma is a miracle child — it was a big surprise. It was not the triumph of modern technology, although I know that works for some people. I feel incredibly lucky and incredibly blessed.

    But while I was struggling with infertility, for four years, I did a lot of research — and it shaped how I saw the climate crisis. I started to notice that this is how extinction happens. And if you view the ecological crisis through a feminist lens, and through a woman’s lens, what you see is that a lot of creatures are having trouble with fertility. The whole world is having a fertility crisis right now. I’ve found dozens and dozens of examples of the way climate change is impacting fertility. I think the saddest example are the leatherback turtles, who bury their eggs in the sand, but the sand is now getting so hot that the eggs are just cooking. I mean, this is a species that’s as old as the dinosaurs, and they just can’t handle that increased degree. So I feel like my own struggle with fertility has helped me understand some parts of the climate crisis.

    But I used to feel really alienated from the environmental movement, because of the whole language of the “Earth Mother,” and “connecting” — women are given validity in this movement, a lot of times, because of the ability to create life. And so, what does that mean for people who can’t? It means you’re not a real environmentalist? And there’s always this talk about doing it for your kids and for your grandkids. I know so many people are struggling with this, and I don’t want this movement to exclude them.

    Maybe in a world of abundance, Earth Mothers have a particular way of connecting, but in the world that we actually live in, where so many life forms are struggling for survival, I think in some ways women who can’t conceive, or struggle with conception, or decide not to conceive, have their own ways of connecting with this crisis that need to be validated. So I’m really trying not to play the Earth Mother card.

    She may do some ok work, but she sounds like a really unpleasant person.

  • Ugh, it is only coming through to me now the offensiveness of her self-regard.. since I haven’t paid much attention to her up ’til now.

    Her “struggle” with infertility at 38-42 y.o. is what gave her insight into the dire state of the planet?

    “I started to notice that this is how extinction happens.”


  • “Tell your ma. Tell your pa. We’re all gonna fall.
    ew-wa ew-wa.”-BD

  • Lidia
    Thanks for that Klein article. I agree.Fucking unbelievable.
    200,000 extra human mouths to feed each day ,and she comes out with that.

    A couple more for your list.
    Sting: 5 kids,finally gets a clue about the ecological impact of that,
    then gives lectures on environmental responsibility.
    Gus Speth : Head of ZPG(zero population growth organisation),then has
    3 kids ,then goes back to writing books lamenting the destruction of the environment.

  • “Only love remains.” What does that mean? Is Naomi Klein really a vile cunt for having a child? Is Jean Turcot a monster for eating meat at a golf course? We are in this mess because we’re all accountable for something. Especially those of us in the 1%. No, not the 1% Occupy talks about, but the GLOBAL 1%– anyone making over $32,350 USD.

    It’s easy to be self-righteous. To deride others for not “being where we are” on a conscious level and to lash out as if we know everything and as if the world would be great if everyone else thought like us and behaved like us. We all have our hypocrisies, people.

    Then again, maybe it’s easier to blame Naomi Klein and Sting.

  • Adding to david’s list
    Half the attendees at Guy McPherson’s talk at the marae in Wellington last year ??
    listen to the denial

    Or the ‘rejection’ I received because of my middle name …. for the bloody human extinction support group no less, not that I give a cold cup of sick. )

  • Possibly the very many people in denial about abrupt NTHE are the majority of those still believing in a Santa Claus Deity. Not the Real Divine, mind you, the only ‘Is’ness of which all else is simply a ‘shine’ or reflection…
    Ha Ha Ha

    It’s the Santa Claus believers that are the real worry…..guns and ammo…. probably save the day if only war remains.

    Some wacky weather coming to Afraidia down-under here…

    ‘Records set to tumble as a strong cold front delivers freezing temperatures this weekend’


    PARTS of Australia are expecting damaging winds to reach blizzard intensity of 90km/h, as snow continues to fall and the big freeze starts to bite.

    Snow is falling as the big freeze begins to impact the nation’s south east, where sub-zero temperatures are forecast in some places for much of the coming week.

    While snow has started to fall in the Adelaide Hills, NSW and ACT residents are also bracing for damaging winds in the Snowy Mountains over the weekend.”

    Here it is…

    And some soothing music to get us through.


  • babajingo,
    Re your 10.18 pm comment.
    The great majority of commenters here understand the I=PAT equation. Over the last few years I have posted 2 or 3 fairly long comments attempting to explain that equation for the small minority who evidently did not understand it. It has had no impact on that minority,and I can’t be bothered doing it again. Perhaps I didn’t explain it well enough.
    However, I still think it is a good idea if you or someone else posts an explanation of that equation. I look forward to reading your explanation.
    In the meantime, while I thank you for your helpful comment,I would like to assure you that Lidia and I are among the majority who have a good understanding of that equation.

  • Lidia,

    Thanks for the “Klein interview”.
    I agree with you in every way!! She “reasons” from her position of self-regard in a truly shocking way. Or it would be shocking if I weren’t so cynical. Nonetheless, it’s extremely offensive.
    How nasty it is to co-opt the “Earth-Mother” archetype while at the same time declaring that she isn’t really an earth mother. That would be unprofessional, of course, sending out the wrong vibes. After all (ha ha ha) she’s a woman with experience and knows what she’s talking about. She’s been “disaster hopping”, my goodness – how sick can you get…
    I think she really believes her own BS (and what a huge heap it is). Your expletives to describe her are apt. You just got there first.

    If I were not so cynical about what humans do, how they justify and constantly fool themselves, I would be shocked all the time. But I am not and just think “bring it on”, what other kinds of self-deception are you capable of?”
    Naomi Klein is just a run of the mill human being who cannot survive any other way.

    Women who have chosen to be childfree will always be marginalized and BAD. We are the mad ones, don’t forget!
    Isn’t it nice though – I like it and have never regretted it, not even for a nano-second.

    Robert, I like your name. Don’t ever change it!

    I think the social media walls are for self-absorbed people looking for other to confirm their egos constantly. This is the world humans have created. On the site you mentioned they probably wallow in their “grief” on the one hand and then “help” each other to get over it, most likely in a very anthropocentric way (I’m guessing).Most people do get some solace that way – and why not. It’s not for me either. But it’s best to let them get on with it.


    thanks to you too. The topic of overpopulation, a great taboo among humans, must be kept at the top of our list. Your list said it all.

    Oh yes, getting back to the professional disaster hopper and saviour of the world Naomi Klein (who certainly cannot think big having decided to have a little one).
    Bringing up the leatherback turtles within the context of infertility. That’s really good “reasoning”. I’m truly impressed: The sand is getting too hot for the turtle eggs, and by her implication that’s part of infertility? She “feels” for the poor turtles and all the other poor female animals who are condemned not to have young. Now that the “knows” what it might be like to be infertile, she “knows”. But only women like her “know” of course. How often has this sort of thing been implied for my benefit – I’ve lost track completely.
    That’s the kind of thing you hear when you don’t have children by choice. At least women do.
    Anyway,that’s what I read into her interview statements.
    People are so easily manipulated, especially when they hear what they want to hear. Dear me, what a species we are.

  • babajingo,

    Please don’t think that the people here are into “blaming”.
    That would be very childish.

    If you read the comments carefully, you’ll find that we are all adults here who don’t go around blaming, in other words justifying ourselves. Immature people do that, and most of us here are not – we’re just very different because we share a common knowledge of what’s in store for us: NTE. I say this again: this makes people passionate, and so it should. Blaming doesn’t come into it.

    The comment section of NBL is there to voice opinions, experiences (material and spiritual)and witness statements (maybe you can think of a better word), and these are very diverse.

    We share what we feel.

  • The Pope And Naomi Klein Are Dung Devils

    After Klein’s heady success with her magnificent Disaster Capitalism, it was time to shut up or put out when her biological alarm went off. So she was richer and more famous with idiot groupies hanging off her every word. She was feeling “like so optimistic”.

    Myself, I actually tell young people that is immoral to bring a child into this world knowing what it will be. But, denialism cuts both ways. It’s like saying, alcohol is bad, but I like drinking. Note: I am hung over as I write this, and even my dog won’t talk to me.

    What Pope Francis Says About Capitalism

    What Pope Rob Says About Immaculate Deception

    The Pope And Naomi Klein Are Dung Devils from collapse

  • One Final Twist Of The Knife
    While twiddling her mental twat with phrases about her never-ending “growing movement”, she imagines a “surge” of populism resulting in a climax of Gaian proportion, otherwise known as an earth shattering orgasm. She been mentally masturbating to this socialist wet-dream fantasy for the last several years now.

    70% of earth’s sea birds since 1950 are gone… like forever gone.

    Collapse Data Cheat Sheet from collapse

  • Good morning everyone.

    Robert – i hope your head feels better. Roll up a big chilla and walk out in the morning dew (usually does it for me).

    Friday, July 10, 2015
    Arctic Sea Ice Collapse Threatens


    With still two months of melting to go before the sea ice can be expected to reach its minimum for 2015, the threat of sea ice collapse is ominous. The Arctic-News Blog has been warning for years about the growing chance of a collapse of the sea ice, in which case huge amounts of sunlight that previously were reflected back into space, as well as heat that previously went into melting the ice, will then instead have to be absorbed by the water, resulting in a dramatic rise of sea surface temperatures.

    Friday, July 10, 2015
    Global Mean Atmospheric Methane Breaks Above Highest 2014 Reading
    METOP IASI 2-A: An all time high global mean methane.


    What is very troubling is that the July 8, 2015 reading is 23 ppbv above July 8, 2014 and 30 ppbv above July 8, 2013

  • Another ingredient added to the climate stew…and this one’s not from The Onion:

    I realize that a lot of folks here will be disappointed something terrible if such a thing should come to pass, and put the kibosh on AGW.

    I know so many of you omnicidal darlings are counting on The Wrath of the Goddess to strike us all down for our many and various sins of omission and commission.

    All I can suggest is that you pray to your Goddess…and mebbe sacrifice a chicken or a goat for good measure.

  • Tenuously connected ramblings:

    You know, back about fifteen years ago when I still entertained sporadic fantasies about doing something to leave the planet a marginally better place than I had found it, I had a poster which advertised an initiative aimed at growing trees. The producers of the poster had managed to dig up two inspirational quotes: one from action-hero Tom Cruise- “Plant a tree- DO IT!”, and, from Martin Luther King, the slightly more thoughtful: “If I knew I was going to die tomorrow, I would still plant a tree today”.

    Well, more recently I got to thinking about that second quote in the context of impending extinction. The thought: “If I knew I was going to die tomorrow, I would still plant a tree today” obviously comes from a philanthropist with the thought of others’ welfare (maybe even including non-human others) at heart.

    But then if you change the quote to: “If I knew the world was going to end in accelerating climate chaos within a few decades, I would still plant a tree today”, it takes on some sinister overtones. The planter’s motivations immediately become suspect. What is it with you? Do you hate trees that much, planting them knowing their young lives are destined to be cut cruelly short? Are you so desperate to maintain the illusion of continuity that you must selfishly surround yourself with young vegetation which is about to suffer horribly as a result of your actions?

    Meanwhile, as I type, a passive consumer of mainstream media, never read a book in his life, much less one with the invisible implicit subtitle: “why we are fucked”- comes across as a sort of unconscious benefactor and euthanasia practitioner as he performs the summer ritual of righteously herbiciding and insecticiding his property, thus saving all those life-forms and their progeny from having to be around to witness the not-too-distant terminal survival struggle of their species. He has been doing this for fifty years. The world abounds with such benevolence, masquerading as fucked-up violence. And doubtless vice-versa.

    I watch the Swallows perform their aerobatics high in the blue sky and all I can think of is what fearsome ugly predators they must appear to be to the insects. Nobody thinks to shout at them: “Why are you still breeding and feeding? Don’t you know the end of the world is approaching?” Well, for them, what’s the urgency? Afaik the Swallows can fit a few more generations in. For them it is like 1920 or something. As for the insects, it might just as well be 2000BC.

  • Question for everyone: Does everyone actually WANT humans to go extinct? Understandable, if you do. But if you don’t, why begrudge someone having one child–it’s instinct with most people?

  • Although Robin & Tom already posted the following shocking & predictive facts, it can’t hurt to emphasize them again because our ONLY freedom comes from accurate & honest information.

    Making honest inferences based on UN-distorted empirical facts is the best we can do.

    NTHE is coming down on our heads much faster than even the most pessimistic doomers anticipated.

    We are at the point of NO return, & we can only act in the light of the most probabilistic & predictive information.

    “What is very troubling is that the July 8, 2015 reading is 23 ppbv above July 8, 2014 and 30 ppbv above July 8, 2013.”


    The total increase in methane in 14 tears from 2000 to 2014 = 58 ppbv.

    So, the big question; Is this documented quantified increase of 23 ppbv in one year a clear indication of exponential methane release?

    “You got trouble with a capital T & it rhymes with P & it stands for …” PERDITION.

    A simple statement from Arctic News;

    “Massive amounts of ocean heat will be carried by the Gulf Stream into the Arctic Ocean over the next few months. The combined result of high sea surface temperatures being mixed down to the seafloor and the ocean heat entering the Arctic Ocean from the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans can be expected to result in dramatic methane eruptions from the Arctic Ocean seafloor by October 2015.”

    Arctic News: Arctic Sea Ice Collapse Threatens

  • When I read Naomi Kleins book I was determined to keep an opened mind, but when I got to the part were she compared her own private temporary infertility to an entire species and then the entire world of other living things, it really made me think that she was a jack ass.

    Here she was comparing other animals inability to reproduce with the human “problem” of reproduction, as other species individual numbers plummet while human numbers soar. For the life of me I couldn’t understand why she just didn’t leave her sorry ass fertility tale out of the book all together.

    And the way that interviewers LOVE that part of the book really makes me wonder.

  • Ken Barrows Says:
    July 11th, 2015 at 7:16 am

    Question for everyone: Does everyone actually WANT humans to go extinct? Understandable, if you do. But if you don’t, why begrudge someone having one child–it’s instinct with most people?
    It is a troll diversion.

    A scientist acquaintance of Dr. McPherson pointed out that overpopulation is not good, is bad, is very bad to be precise.

    But that is not a source of human extinction.

    It is a source of mass-death in various geographical zones which overpopulate to a deadly degree (nations or civilizations).

    Making that the number one no-no diverts attention away from Oil-Qaeda.

    So, those who do that have been persuaded by Oil-Qaeda propaganda tactics (The Private Empire’s Social Media Hit Squads).

    Those Oil-Qaeda folks are authoritarian type A units and those who are persuaded by them are authoritarian type B units (Ministry of Truth).

    That authoritarian music resonates with many because humans are substantially composed of molecular machines, and are therefore subject to toy soldier propaganda (Hypothesis: Toxins of Power Originate in Molecular Machines – 2).

    The Oil-Qaeda propaganda machine uses every diversion in the book to avoid being prosecuted as The Union of Concerned Scientists has called for (ibid, “The Private Empire’s Social Media Hit Squads”).

    “And stuff like that Wally.”

    Peace and love.

  • Ogf – In light of your continued vicious and false attacks on me I need to reiterate what I said to you before. Your accusation that I am a “white racist” is a lie – and it remains that however many times you say it. Apologize and admit that you spoke in haste with no real evidence, or there is no point in my speaking with you. In that case this will be my last communication relative to your slanders against me. Those who know me know that I have no prejudicial ideas or feelings against any group of people whatever. Your mistaken impressions will never alter that reality in any way.
    Go your way with my love – you cannot take that away, whatever you might do or say. Those who think that one whose life is dedicated to love and helping others must be some kind of pushover that they can dump all sorts of garbage on are mistaken. I also love myself too much not to stand up for myself when I am being abused.

    mike k Says:
    July 9th, 2015 at 1:11 pm
    Love. I am not a racist. There is no such thing as race the way many use that word. I am not white. There are no white people. There are only people. I am not “euro-centric.” I may be eccentric, but I am not that. You have constructed a version of me that is totally false, every bit of it. Then you start in to bash your strawman. I have deep respect for every living being on this planet.
    I don’t have much use for people who try to preach to me and try to make me feel bad because of their supposed authority to tell me who I am and how I am supposed to think. Part of my relationship to Native American Spirituality I got from Ed McGaa, Eagle Man. He had his own run ins with super traditional Indians who thought they were the only true keepers of the original Native spirituality. You are coming across as one of them, full of pride in your supposed knowledge and contemptuous of any one who will not bow down to you. What I have received in sacred sweat lodge and other contexts from the ancient wonderful understandings and practices of Native Americans is mine forever. And I will not stand still for a moment and put up with you trying to dishonor that. Your anger and lack of any patience or attempt to understand what I am sharing tells me all I need to know about your brand of knowledge. I can sense the trail that brought you to where you are, and I have compassion for you, even if you choose to spit on me and my path. I leave you with the same love I feel for all beings. Love.
    One more thing. Unless you choose to come to me in the spirit of love and understanding that I am extending to you – then I see no point in further discussion with one who chooses the way of hatred and arrogance. Love.

  • Actually, the tree quote probably goes back to the Shinran of Christianity, Martin Luther of the “Reformation.”

    (I get so tired of hearing Shinran being called the Martin Luther of Buddhism when he lived about 3 centuries prior)

    My sig for years was the abbreviated MLK Jr. quote with the original “sexist” language “We have misguided men and guided missiles. The full quotation is probably even more topical here.

  • Sabine Says:
    July 11th, 2015 at 3:45 am


    Please don’t think that the people here are into “blaming”.
    That would be very childish.

    Does that include not “blaming” the mass murders who engineered NTHE?

    If so, that sounds like Stockholm Syndrome, where the victims staunchly defended the criminals who took them captive.
    Martin Says:
    July 10th, 2015 at 3:22 pm

    I have a chalange, try living a week buying no plastic

    the easiest way is to put some lead in your head
    It doesn’t seem to have worked for you or for pat.

  • Jean Turcot,

    Thanks so much for your open, honest, thought-filled response. With the people I socially dance among, I often ask gentle, probing questions or make comments regarding the collapse issues. I have felt gratified by the significant percentage of people who do not deny our predicament, and I have sometimes felt shocked by the powerful agreement and subsequent support. I will carry on conversations with those who disagree—as long as they express a willingness to do so and communicate in mature, respectful ways. If they do not do these things, then I leave it, and them, alone while recognizing and deeply accepting that they have a right to their values, beliefs, and opinions that differ from mine—yes, even self-annihilation, Earth-killing beliefs. Why do I do this? Because I have come to believe on a deep emotional level that other people and the world do NOT have to work as I may narcissistically demand in a grandiose, God-like way that they supposedly “should” or “must”. (For most of us, it serves as a radical idea indeed that the world simply does not work as we wish or demand in a human supremacist way that it should, with the universe revolving around us and our human demands. Meanwhile, in this Age of Narcissism, a huge percentage of people actually believe that “The universe MUST work according to MY personal beliefs, values, and standards!” It doesn’t.)

    Bob S.,

    You wrote (1) “Following the old adage – better to remain silent and let folks think you a fool, than say something and remove all doubt.”

    So, why do you not pass these alleged “words of wisdom” along to Guy regarding the entire thrust of his blog (especially his “only love remains” theme), as well as to most if not all others who write here? And why do you not apply the adage to yourself?

    You also wrote (2) “It’s always nice to have you drop in to let us know that you’ll never invite us to the NTHE Support Group cause we’re so ugly and you all are above all that.”

    Bob S., you really need to read much more carefully, do a little basic fact checking, and follow the recommendations of the adage you presented in (1). How so? I have never had anything to do with the NTHE Support Group, as you suggest, so this comment does not make any sense at all. On the other hand, I have had much to do with the Tacoma emotion-focused extinction support group wherein—distinctly different from the NTHE Support Group—we have PROCESS requirements for participation, not content requirements. What process requirements? Perhaps most importantly respectful communication in our meetings and email so as to create an emotionally safe space for people to speak and write.

    Regarding our group, you do have it partially correct: We would never invite YOU to participate with our group (the “we” you used does not apply), not because we consider ourselves “above you” in any way, or because you “are ugly”, as you suggested, but because of your frequent, mean-spirited, disrespectful, character-attacking comments that utterly destroy any sense of emotional safety within a social space. If you would apologize for such childish, hurtful, sometimes disgusting behavior, if it occurred in the context of our group, and subsequently communicated in significantly more mature, respectful, balanced talk-power ways, we then WOULD welcome you to participate with us. But something tells me that you remain quite incapable of any such apology and related other behavior changes and you would never even seriously consider doing such things, much less manage actually to do them. Meanwhile, Guy gives you the freedom, here, to behave pretty much as disrespectfully, and as emotionally destructively, as you may wish as you fight to become Lord of the Flies, and that no doubt attracts you to this site, just as it surely attracts a number of others with a similar agenda to it. Your comments often serve as a perfect example of the point I made yesterday that “Unfortunately, I have noticed exactly the opposite of this validation happening extremely often, and sometimes quite dramatically and brutally, on many blogs such as at Fractal Planet and Nature Bats Last, as well as in many social situations, sometimes—especially unfortunately—even including various ESG venues, places designed, presumably, for us to support each other emotionally and socially, not to further invalidate and tear each other down.”

    Regarding all of this I wonder: Do you take great pride in the mean-spirited, vicious, disrespectful, character-attacking nature of so many of your comments here? Do you believe that you help anyone, in any way, with such comments? (Other than helping yourself, I mean, for surely you feel very good as you attack others.) Diametrically opposite Guy’s “only love remains” theme, you seem to believe and strongly push the idea that “only hatred remains” while doing your best to MINIMIZE the emotional safety of the comment site. Please correct me if I have anything wrong here.

  • I’m on the road up into the mountains to escape the noise, so I’ll respond in more depth later to each one of you. Thank you for some really great comments and information, everyone!

    Quick comments:

    Robert Atack, I was a member of that group when it first started. I lasted about a week or so because it became apparent that anything even mildly approaching an in-depth discussion of the immorality of bringing more babies to this planet was taboo. My mistake…I thought we were all going to be adults and face it head on.

    Lidia, the narcissism of Klein is staggering…and so common.

    Here’s a bunch of canned responses from climate scientists about our terrible future…with an emphasis on their concern for their own children and grandchildren (and only ONE–Dr. Kevin Trenberth of Boulder, CO–mentioned overpopulation, if I’m not mistaken):

    As usual, The Onion gets it right:

  • babajingo ….. this is it .. we don`t know what is this .. This whole life and the process .. We were also born into a set of living arrangement .. If you try to fight it they will put you down .. So what can you do … I don’t do shit just ride along best i can .. Every minute living is a gift in a way so who cares how long it will go on .. people are all wind up about it as if they can win this somehow .. Understand folks you can`t here is a lime from a movie with Denzel Washington
    “Doug Carlin: Everything you have, you lose, right? Mother, father – gone. Good looks, Pryzwarra? – gone. Loved ones gone in a second. That’s what this job teaches you, isn’t it? No matter what, no matter how hard you grab onto something – you still lose it, right?”
    This place here is a forum which teaches you to dare to live i am looking at so whiners and folks with self piti get a life and live …. it will do you good .

    Also the 2 comments / day restriction how to get around that if you have something really important to say i always have at least 1 comment left to go email it to me and i post it for you marking it as yours

  • You poor little victim. I didn’t say you were a white racist, Mike. I don’t know what color you are.

    I said that you utilized a very old, extremely popular, profoundly racist argument, in fact the enduring argument for genocide and land theft that has been used for over 160 years.

    Clearly you are incapable of understanding the difference, but that’s just trivial compared to all else you are incapable of.

    Wren is so correct, and you are one passive-aggressive game player. It’s probably the only way you ever get any attention at all. Maybe you get attention from needy people looking for “love,” but that’s not me. You’ll have to look elsewhere. Your racist-spewing, twisty, slippery, slimy, spirituality isn’t anything I value.

    I like it, however, that now you are now my victim. I bet a few people get a good chuckle out of that.

  • @Bud Nye – Bud your presence here is a breath of fresh air. I have tried to speak up in favor of what you are sharing before. I could not believe how viciously and thoughtlessly some on this blog attacked you. Somehow some very disturbed people have decided to dump their garbage here. I value what you are sharing, and see it as an important response to our critical situation.

    I left this blog a few years ago because some really obscene bullies and fascist-minded thugs were taking it over – and almost no one was willing to name that and support me in putting forth a different more open tone. That is why I left. It is futile to argue with people who express themselves like this: “GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK, YOU VILE CUNT!!!” This was directed at Naomi Klein. I take part in several face to face groups on a regular basis. Over the years I can’t remember anyone descending to that level of ugly vulgarity and hatred. If they did we would have to invite them to take their venom elsewhere.

    Bud thank goodness not everyone who shares here comes to dump their ugly thoughts and feelings. I have met some really wonderful folks here too. That’s what keeps me coming back. I admire how you have responded to the crude hecklers that made you their target. Your quiet refusal to descend to their level is exemplary. I am learning from you. Thanks for showing up here again in spite of the far less than ideal conditions prevailing.

    I know something about cults and how they are formed. Some here would like nothing better than to make that our atmosphere. The interesting thing about cults is that they are more the creations of the members of a group than their leader. Often the person nominally leading a group is far less cultic than a sub-group within the larger group who begin to define the group in their own cultic way. The leader may be unaware of how his message is being distorted beyond recognition by these “true believers” who are busy with trying to whip everybody in line with their own version of whatever the leader is out trying to get across. I think this is what happened to Rajneesh when he began his gathering in Oregon.

    Guy M. is no cult leader. The freedom of speech extended to those who disagree with him tells me that. Also reading his beautiful essay Only Love Remains tells me where his heart is, and it is not in a place of anger and fanaticism.

  • Naomi Klein having a child with full knowledge of what’s to come is unconscionable. We’re on track to go extinct within the next 20-30 years, with ever increasing hardship and suffering leading up to our final moment.

    Yet she’s chosen to bring a child into this nightmare!?! It makes me think she doesn’t really believe in science, and is instead using climate change as a way to sell books and push her political agenda. I’ve got zero respect this woman. None!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • I agree with a few others here; the vitriol being slung at well-meaning people is horrifying given the circumstances we are in and the message that the owner of this web site attempts to convey (love).

    Nobody’s perfect. None of us, and none of the people being “hated on” here in this post and in these comments. Both Naomi Klein and Elizabeth Kolbert seem like they are doing their best with a difficult situation, as are we all.

    A little compassion goes a long way in an apocalypse. All I know is I wouldn’t want to be running out of food with many of the people commenting here.

    A sign of the chaos yet to come as humanity shows the worst of its traits on the way down the tubes.

  • Naomi Klein and Bill ‘350’ McKibben deserve the criticism they’re receiving from these quarters and eslewhere. They’re doing everyone a huge disservice peddling ‘hompium’ — i.e. “it’s not too late if we just to x, y and z”. They don’t respect us enough to treat us as adults and give it to us straight. They’re more interested in playing games. To hell with that!

  • Re Naomi Klown and Bill McFibben: While they disappoint me deeply, I can’t it within myself to be angry at them. Instead I feel a variation of the same compassion I have for politicians and corporate CEOs.

    I wrestled with these emotions a few days ago after reading the UCS “Climate Deception Dossiers. My first emotional reaction was one of deep anger, betrayal and bitterness. The descriptor that I came up with for those oil and coal executives was “psychopathic cocksuckers”.

    That night I asked, “Seriously, what kind of person trades an entire living, loving planet for a couple of mansions and a yacht?”

    The next morning on my way to work, I sat on the bus and thought about it a bit more. This question came up: “Seriously, what kind of person trades an entire living, loving planet for a fucking bus ride to work?”

    I think one of the things that was most discomfiting about that whole episode was the realization that I am different only in degree, but not in kind, from those Big Energy CEOs. As far as I can tell, we all carry a seed of selfish psychopathy like a worm hidden in the apple of our souls. Not to mention that we’re all, CEO and peasant alike, trapped in a prison of our own construction – and we’re starting to realize it.

    That’s a painful awareness, but one that has been yet another of my springboards into compassion.

    So no, I can’t criticize Naomi for succumbing to her evolutionary biological urges. We all carry far larger loads than anyone else knows. Criticizing others for not meeting my standards is a mugs game at best, and would be nothing more than Shadow projection on my part. Nothing is gained, it would just amount to dripping more acid on my own spirit.


  • Regarding my last comment here, Roblyn Crawford, an administrator of the NTHE Support Group, and on our Tacoma EF ESG email list, which list I sent my last comment to, responded briefly that they do have process requirements. I have copied my response to her here because it corrects something in my previous comment:


    I think you make an excellent point. I realized very soon after I posted the comment that I framed the content/process issue in a little too all-or-none a way. Yes, your group addresses process—AND, at some point, we address content. (The recent interactions with Greg serve as a good example of that.) I think the content/process issue remains more about emphasis and position on a continuum than operating in one box or another, and a person or group weighs many variables in making their decisions about this, including time and energy concerns. (Meanwhile, I think that the underlying fundamental, emotional dynamics that drive most of these conflicts revolve around attachment and identity issues.)


    I think you make a number of good points. I see the idea or “theme” that “only love remains” as an extremely simplified way, a kind of highly abbreviated “label” or “shorthand”, to suggest that during our remaining days in hospice as we die it would make much more sense for us to treat each other in mutually supportive, caring, humane, and loving ways than in murderous, selfish, hateful ways. Obviously, many options remain other than only love, and as I have written in other times and places, based on what we know of human history I doubt that hospice-like love will happen very often or for very long in most places. Even so, to me it makes much more sense to work for that than toward its polar opposite. So I work at learning how we best do that—beyond the ubiquitous, vague, age-old religious and spiritual injunctions, which I do not see as having helped us very much over the millennia as we have considered love and consciousness ineffable, metaphysical “mysteries”. Indeed, it looks to me as though those approaches have often caused at least as much trouble as not by producing many sectarian in-groups and out-groups, which form the basis of much, if not most, warfare. How much death and destruction has occurred over the millennia in the name of love related to this or that religious, spiritual, or philosophical belief as one group insists that their arbitrary God- or spirit-related beliefs “are right” in comparison with another group’s arbitrary, God- or spirit-related beliefs? Obviously, I prefer to learn about and implement what empirically verified psychology and neuroscience have to say about human thinking, feeling, and behaving. My selfish motivations? As I read, learn, work with my new emotion-focused therapist, and interact with others, I find living (and dying) in loving ways FAR preferable to living in hateful, selfish, aggressive ways. But of course many here remain entirely free to think, live, and die differently, as they may prefer.

    mike k,

    Thanks for your comments. I also applaud your ability to withstand the crude, adolescent, distracting, disrespectful, often disgusting ad hominem attacks that so often occur here. Related to this, you serve as a something of a role model to me for writing in more empathic ways, which I work at doing.

    Regarding the great anger and rage so often expressed here at NBL and related sites by so many, I will quote three paragraphs from Greenberg and Goldman’s book, Emotion-Focused Couples Therapy, The Dynamics of Emotion, Love, and Power. This section has the title “Secondary Anger at Unmet Needs” just one small section in a wonderful, much longer chapter titled “Anger In Couples Therapy”. Especially given the many emotionally and existentially threatening implications of the very high probability of NTHE, this seems extremely relevant to me for all of us:

    “Secondary anger probably remains the most prevalent form of anger expression in relationships. Most people tend to express anger when they feel hurt. When anger occurs in a secondary, reactive way and masks a primary emotions, it does not help to express it. Rather, it needs further exploration to identify the person’s more primary emotion. Blaming anger occurs as the most common negative form of anger expression in relationships. This generally occurs as a secondary emotion and we need to bypass it to get at underlying softer, more vulnerable emotions. For instance, a husband who feels angry at his wife for dressing too provocatively has to become aware that his anger occurs as a secondary, reactive emotion and that it helps him defend against his primary emotion of fear and threat. Once the husband opens up about his fear and expresses his concerns, he no longer behaves in controlling and blaming ways, and his wife will less likely defend and more likely respond to his concerns. An open disclosure will more likely get an empathic response; will promote a bond between the couple; and will give partners a better understanding of their own emotions, as well as their spouses’.

    Anger thus often occurs as a reaction to underlying fear, shame, helplessness, or disappointment. In change efforts, it remains important for an emotion coach, after first acknowledging a partner’s reactive anger, to focus on the person’s underlying hurt, fear of abandonment, or sense of powerlessness. Having accessed the primary vulnerable feeling, the underlying need and implicit belief are then identified and worked with. Sometimes a desperate quality to expressions of secondary anger occur, which indicates clearly that this exists not as primary anger and suggests the underlying fear of dissolution or abandonment. This is the simplest form of anger, and you will find examples of it in the next section on affiliative cycles, in pursuer’s blaming.

    A shame-rage sequence when one person feels primarily humiliated and then gets angry occurs as a particularly difficult emotion sequence between people. This can vary in intensity, but when it occurs in a very intense way, it can lead to violence between people. Here, the partner’s rage occurs generally as a response to their inability to deal with the more core feelings of shame and powerlessness. People who feel rage or who rapidly escalate and become rageful in relationship conflict need to learn how to calm the rage and to get to what really lies at the bottom of it. Having awareness and getting in touch with core feelings as they arise, then, remains a key way to prevent the development of destructive rage. If one often gets very angry, one needs not only to control one’s anger, but to learn to experience and express the more vulnerable feelings beneath the anger. Expressing underlying sadness, fear, shame, or hurt will have a very different impact on one’s partner than will expressing secondary anger. People thus need to develop the ability, when they feel defensively angry, to feel and express the threat that comes before the anger. Emotion coaches need to help partners develop the ability to soothe themselves when angry and to also soothe their angry partners, rather than to escalate. This serves as on of the best antidotes to negative escalation—the ability to regulate affect in both self and other.”

  • @Paul, you are right that anger doesn’t do any good.

    @Elisabeth and others. I’m not angry with Klein for having a kid.. I’m angry at her psychotic twisting of the so-enormous-it’s-incomprehensible disaster we’re all facing into a narrative that is ALL ABOUT HER. That’s what rankles, and if you see my first post on her, it is more measured, because I had only skimmed the interview.

    When I went back to really read her comments a second time, their full horror struck me. Not only is the narrative she presents nauseating in its ignorance and vast self-regard, she’s not even embarrassed to have been heard saying these things.. she *featured* them on her own site!!

    “Doing their best with a difficult situation” No, that is not true. Klein is not “doing her best”. Her “best” showed that she was capable of connecting the dots. Here she chose not to (ok) but then goes on to double down and creepily rub her fertility ‘trials’ in our face.. I just can’t countenance that, I’m sorry.

    And Paul, I do think that consciously having children when you consciously know what the future holds is not about “standards” like which kind of lightbulb you use. It’s about your direct responsibility for the life of another human being, whom you supposedly want in order to “love”.

    Kathy C, would understand. It is not “love” to bring a child into a world of horror, imo, it is a form of abuse. What kind of parent wouldn’t want to protect their child..? Jesus!

  • Hard to work laptop – had a heart attack today – got stent installed – am now officially bionic!

    Home in 3 days if all is well. Drove myself to local hospital – took lifeflight to Geisinger in Danville – now in icu recovering – more later.

  • Bob S ~ congrats on becoming bionic! that is harrowing to hear about how you got there, though. I’m hoping you are feeling OK now, not in pain or anything, and I’m wishing you all the best for a speedy recovery.

  • Lidia, we’re all going extinct shortly. Why not just wish people well and let them do what they want between now and Doomsday?

  • Certainly an impressive argument,Paul.Why not let them have 4 or 5 kids?What does it matter if those children endure great suffering in the near future ? The more suffering the better,eh?
    I don’t expect you to be outraged about anything from that zombie-like state of unperturbability you have managed to reach after working at it for decades.
    After all,’The world is perfect,just as it is’,right?

  • Bob S., you’re a gutsy guy, a real favorite of mine. Here’s wishing you a full and speedy recovery!

  • I’m befuddled with Klein having a kid. My two are close to forty, If I knew what I now now, I would not have done it. It’s the only compassionate response to that ancient call, now. Klein is a perfect example of the complexity of the human drive to reproduce. I bet she regrets her choice.

  • Bob S.

    Sorry to hear about your ordeal, my good man. Send some love to that stent. Speedy recovery!

  • @Bob S.

    Glad you’re still with the living! Rest and recover!

  • Geez Bob, hang in there! Was it your first?

    Here’s where we are now:

    Bomb Squad, ATF Investigating Mysterious Explosion at Rhode Island Beach

    Officials are investigating the cause behind an apparent explosion or eruption on a Rhode Island beach today that forced the beach to be evacuated and left one woman in the hospital.

    An explosion was reported at the Salty Brine beach in Narragansett around 11:15 a.m., according to Rayna Maguire, Assistant to the Director of the Rhode Island Department of Environmental Management.

    The explosion “blew a 50-year-old woman onto the rocks,” Maguire told ABC News.

    She had been sitting in a chair up against breakwater at the tide line when the sand erupted, said Larry Mouradjian, Associate Director for Rhode Island Natural Resources Management.

    [ends with]

    Dave Dean, a local radio host who was on the beach at the time, said he first heard a low rumbling sound.

    “I thought it was a small tremor or something,” he said. “I didn’t think anything of it. And I started hearing people start yelling ‘Call 911’ because a lady got hurt in the incident. I saw a lady on the ground, and after about 20 minutes they asked us to get off the beach.”

    “I walked over to try and take a look at what happened. There was what looked like a sink hole. … If you had dug a hole and put some sand over it that’s what it looked like,” Dean said.

    Another beachgoer, Stacey Beal, described a gas odor at the scene.

    “We were just sitting at the beach. Heard a loud explosion sound, something like a gas explosion, and when we looked up, it was like a pile of sand blowing up out of the ground,” Beal said.

    “We saw a woman come out of her chair and we saw all the sand come up like a volcanic eruption, and she was thrown five feet up and came down on her front side,” Beal said.

    Beal said the victim was conscious when emergency responders took her off the beach.

    comment from Jonny Mnemonic:

    Sounds like that East Coast methane clathrate deposit is melting more rapidly now, and some of that gas will migrate up through the ground. And if they smellled ‘gas odor’ that means there was a little hydrogen sulfide in the mix too. Good thing there wasn’t enough hydrogen sulfide in the mix to smell ‘sweet’ or they might have had a beach full of dead people.

    Also in Narragansett the day prior, three fishing boats went up in flames. That’ll be in the next update. So three boats go up in flames and the next day the beach explodes with a ‘gas odor’ mentioned.


  • If dey wants cheerens let ’em have ’em. ‘Tsall between dem and deir cheerens.

    If someone wants to make a big spiked club called “love” and swing it every which way at ev’ryone hither & yon, just get out of their way.

    If someone wants to sell emotional and attachment snake oil, let them; caveat emptor!

  • Perhaps it is all about consolation. Naomi Klein is in a relationship – obviously her partner wanted to be a father. Every time she looks at her child from here on in – knowing what she knows – there will be a nagging needle of pain at what she has done.

    Consolation. I log on to this site because it affords me a modicum of solace day to day. A bleeding heart is consoled in the company of other bleeding hearts.

    Guy’s message is of such value – living a life of excellence – but we all know that the excellence we wish for ourselves and for those we care about is unattainable at this moment in anything other than the small day to day things.

    I see people, here on this site, and everywhere else, seeking solace, consolation. And those who know what is coming toward us need that solace and consolation more than most – well, more than the ones who blithely shop on in blissgnorance.

    Klein will no doubt have, as all parents have, just as much pain as joy from her little bundle. She has gone into it with eyes wide open. I don’t agree with her, I think it is selfish, but seeking consolation is selfish too. And these days we need so much to help us keep body and soul together as body (earth) and soul (culture) unravel.

    I won’t condemn Klein, or for me the even more shocking David Suzuki (5 children in Canada – that’s a hell of a carbon footprint). I won’t condemn them because they are already condemned. We are all condemned. It seems to be too late.

    As Lennon and McCartney said: “Let it Be.”

  • Bob S.

    Wishing you a speedy recovery.
    We need all the Deadheads we can muster around here.

  • Bob. S.:
    Good luck!
    ‘Taint over ’till it’s over!

  • A friend rang me yesterday; after we had talked about the unsustainability of the financial system and the probability of collapse within 15 months, and had discussed the unsustainability of practically everything else, he mentioned the latest he had read on the prospect of a mini ice age. When he mentioned a 60% change in solar activity I said that was surely wrong…..and he agreed.

    But here it is:

    ‘There will be a “mini ice age” in 2030, solar scientists have said.

    We are now able to predict solar cycles with far greater accuracy than ever before thanks to a new model which shows irregularities in the sun’s 11-year heartbeat.

    The model shows that solar activity will fall by 60 per cent between 2030 and 2040 causing a “mini ice age”.’

    This surely a WTF moment.

  • david higham Says:
    July 11th, 2015 at 6:06 pm

    “Certainly an impressive argument,Paul.Why not let them have 4 or 5 kids?What does it matter if those children endure great suffering in the near future ? The more suffering the better,eh?
    I don’t expect you to be outraged about anything from that zombie-like state of unperturbability you have managed to reach after working at it for decades.
    After all,’The world is perfect,just as it is’,right?”

    Whew!! A relief to see that not everyone here been numbed into acceptance of the zombie line which i found outrageous two years ago, getting me to write the article which was posted here about resistance and ethics, since which i’ve seen the numbness spread and infect ever more people. As i pointed out then, it’s nothing more than an assertion by a relatively privileged layer of the world’s population of its willingness to allow mass immiseration of OTHER PEOPLE so that their own lifestyles can be sustained, with the excuse that “what does it matter, we’ll soon all be dead anyway,” a set of “ethics” which comes straight out of a sewer.

    nfanttyrone Says:
    July 11th, 2015 at 8:09 pm
    “Bob S.

    Wishing you a speedy recovery.
    We need all the Deadheads we can muster around here.”

    Thanks for making the video selection from THE REAL Grateful Dead, bro’!!!

  • “getting me to write the article which was posted here about resistance and ethics”

    and a very fine article this is, Jeff.

    the link, for those interested:

    Resistance is the Only Ethical Response to Near-Term Extinction

  • Kevin,
    If you scroll down the comments to that article,there is a comment
    from a Michael Perkins,explaining that the article was misleading,the
    60% drop is in solar magnetic activity,not a 60% drop in total solar activity.Have a read.

    Bob S.
    I hope you are back to good health soon.

  • Thanks, mo flow.

    david higham Says:
    July 11th, 2015 at 9:58 pm
    If you scroll down the comments to that article,there is a comment
    from a Michael Perkins,explaining that the article was misleading,the
    60% drop is in solar magnetic activity,not a 60% drop in total solar activity.Have a read.”

    Brings to my mind a visual of Rosannah Banadana (i.e. a Gilda Radner Sat Nite Live character) saying “never mind.” :-)

  • @Bob S., wow! Do take care of yourself, and best wishes to you.

    @Paul C. says, “Why not just wish people well and let them do what they want between now and Doomsday?”

    Well, yeah, generally I do that, but every so often there’s something so heinous I just need to fulminate! I might ask why you don’t “let” me do so!! :-)

    Klein is particularly galling because she pretends to be someone who knows more than the average shmoe, and who is put out there as a moral and social arbiter. She’s the one who publicly claims to be telling us how things are. That is what is offensive, above and beyond her programmed human sacrifice.

    @Kirk, I can’t imagine she regrets it. She’s got too much of an elaborate endangered-turtle/Earthmama story wrapped up in it. That was the vile part.

    @Tom, no way! Salty Brine? That beach was named after an old radio/TV personality who went by that moniker.

  • Bob S.! I don’t know you, but I hope you’re doing okay : )

    Someone mentioned that you’re a Dead head. Here’s one of my favorites…

    Take care.

  • The latest in Extinction Controversy, with Geotectonic versus Anthropogenic causation questions.

    Extinction & Geotectonics: Of Dinosaurs & Homo Saps



  • Thanks for the clarification, mrogness.

    Now I’m wondering if the mis-attribution (if indeed it is) is down to the poster producers, or my addled memory?

    Interesting that the Luther-attributed quote in your link is indeed worded: “If I knew the world were going to end….” rather than: “If I knew I were going to die…….”

    Regardless of the true source, obviously both Luther and MLK were, shall we say, Bible-oriented personalities, and I guess any arboricultural advice might have to be interpreted in that context.

    Within that context, aside from the fact that, if the world ends tomorrow, it is doomed before it germinates, planting an Apple tree, in particular, seems to me to be a vote for a repeat performance.

  • from NASA, via Desdemona Despair:

    [study of Pacific Ocean warming at depth, ends with]

    The Pacific Ocean covers nearly one-third of Earth’s surface, so it has an outsized impact on the global thermostat. “As the top 100 meters of the Pacific goes, so goes the surface temperatures of the planet,” said Patzert, a climatologist at JPL. With the surface layer of the ocean being cooler for much of the study period, those waters had a moderating effect on air masses and weather systems on the continents. However, ocean and air temperatures have started to rise swiftly in the past two to three years, which suggests that the cool phase of the PDO and the warming hiatus is over.

    “Natural, decadal variability has been with us for centuries, and it continues to have big regional impacts on society,” said Nieves, a JPL scientist with a joint appointment at the University of California, Los Angeles. “We can expect to have more hiatuses in the future, but unless future hiatuses are stronger than usual, they will be less visible due to fast rising greenhouse gases. Right now, the combined effect of the human-caused warming and the Pacific changing to a warm phase can play together and produce warming acceleration.”

    kevin moore: i read that and thought to myself – “good thing we won’t be around for that!” Later, i wondered whether it would be a “negative feedback” to help undo some of the damage we’ve done, but considering that plants and animals can’t adapt that fast to these kinds of swings in temperature (too hot then too cold in a matter of a decade or two), it doesn’t seem so. It will be amazing if anything survives, even if it’s bacteria.

    Bob S. (Robert C., and the rest of us):

    Grateful Dead – (Walk Me Out In The) Morning Dew

  • @Lidia: “Klein is particularly galling because she pretends to be someone who knows more than the average shmoe, and who is put out there as a moral and social arbiter. She’s the one who publicly claims to be telling us how things are. That is what is offensive, above and beyond her programmed human sacrifice.”

    Well stated. No one here hates and wishes ill will on Klein, McKibben and others of their ilk. However, many of their actions and words are counterproductive to the task of facing up to NTHE. As such their misguided deeds deserve to be called out. As Lidia pointed out, having a child now, knowing what we know, is tantamount to child abuse. Or as Guy has pointed out, a doctor who doesn’t level with his or her patients is guilty of malpractice.

    What’s tragic is that because Klein is a prominent, well respected figure, others may also decide to have children, reasoning that Klein wouldn’t have had one if the situation were truly so dire. WRONG!

  • Alton wrote:

    What so many who comment on global warming seemingly fail to realize is that unless one chooses the proper starting point for their discussion, whatever they write is little more than ‘hot air’.”

    The starting point is the story about how civilization became addicted to what is causing global warming.

    Which is burning fossil fuels within the engines of civilization.

    So, who, what, when, and where that addiction began is the starting point (e.g. The Universal Smedley – 2).

    Those who engineered the blood transfusion to fossil fuels are not clueless about what they have done, they are not clueless about their guilt as most are, so they feverishly cover it up as much as the clueless will allow them to (The Private Empire’s Social Media Hit Squads).

  • Speaking of cluelessness, I am having a hard time finding sources of information about the ongoing droughts across the world, especially Sao Paulo. In fact, this is true of trustworthy sources of “real” general news, too. Please recommend internet sites that I might try.

  • MO MO MO,

    Please don’t delete this one, it is a corrected version with the missing link in place.

    Delete the first one just above it.
    RE Says:
    July 12th, 2015 at 3:03 am

    The latest in Extinction Controversy, with Geotectonic versus Anthropogenic causation questions.

    Extinction & Geotectonics: Of Dinosaurs & Homo Saps
    That is a very old argument which was summarily rejected a few years back when:

    A panel of 41 international experts, including UK researchers from Imperial College London, the University of Cambridge, University College London and the Open University, reviewed 20 years’ worth of research to determine the cause of the Cretaceous-Tertiary (KT) extinction, which happened around 65 million years ago. The extinction wiped out more than half of all species on the planet, including the dinosaurs, bird-like pterosaurs and large marine reptiles, clearing the way for mammals to become the dominant species on Earth.

    The new review of the evidence shows that the extinction was caused by a massive asteroid slamming into Earth at Chicxulub (pronounced chick-shoo-loob) in Mexico. The asteroid, which was around 15 kilometres wide, is believed to have hit Earth with a force one billion times more powerful than the atomic bomb at Hiroshima. It would have blasted material at high velocity into the atmosphere, triggering a chain of events that caused a global winter, wiping out much of life on Earth in a matter of days.

    (link to Science Daily March 4, 2010 @ State Crimes Against Democracy which has the back story).

    The folks peddling the same ole same ole are like the very few scientists who deny AGW after 99.9% of the scientists determined it.

    The oldies but goodies don’t want Darwin overthrown, so they are very skiddish about abrupt anything.

    The new paradigm of the modern evolutionary theory is picking up steam (Hypothesis: Toxins of Power Originate in Molecular Machines – 2).

    (thanks Dredd, guidance is always appreciated ~ mo)

  • @ Tom

    I took your advice to Robert…

    Someone mention the swallows swooping…

    I wrote this short poem the other evening, two pints in and a few hours calm and calming and energizing garden work, suddenly more aware than before of goldfinch goings-on around me, stopping to listen and watch – and btw we call our cat indoors around 3 pm to give the birds – now sadly diminished – a chance to bath and feed, they’re not around much in the heat of the day anyway.


    goldfinches are still here cheering
    cheerful wild canaries
    tweet twittering away
    bath splashing as evening falls

    the cat still stalks
    not conscious of conservation
    oblivious to oblivion
    knowing only hunger and prey

    pray let me be like them
    intent on task at hand
    reigning in tomato sprawl
    soaking the thirsty ones

    leaving the uncalled for future to itself

  • Klein is a media whore held up as a role model for young girls who just put down their Barbie dolls and want to “get real” (have babies). Family Values and Violence are big sellers for the rich. Her sophomoronic book is an insult to anyone with a modicum of intelligence. Defending such whores is unforgiveable.

    Her job is to get your carbon tax money delivered to the super rich via the government. She sticks to her talking points and effortlessly deflects any and all criticism. She is the antithesis of intelligence.

    If you believe her line of crap, then you get what you deserve, a child in danger. I do not fault people for having babies because it is why we are alive, but I feel freely unfettered to dis condescending hypocritical media whores like her and her husband.

  • The good thing about dumping all our crap onto our unsuspecting kids is that we get to keep all our shit. Gotta fucking love it.

  • Thank you all for your kind words of support. My view from the 7th floor is great, Danville is a little town on the Susquehanna River surrounded by mountains and hills – kinda like all the little towns along the river here in NE PA.

    Everything is computerized here at the hospital – seems the working folk scurry around doing whatever the computer tells them is next. If I had my Kali box here I could prolly get the lights on the 7th floor blinking to a good Dead tune. :)

    Again – thanks for the outpouring of support.