eternal damnation (a sinner’s confession)

by the virgin terry

the man responsible for this blog has claimed repeatedly that he would gladly sacrifice his own life if only such an act could save our planet’s ecosphere from the condemnation that industrial civilization is in the process of bestowing upon it. i say ‘claimed’ because i’m a natural skeptic who can’t know for sure what’s in the mind of another being, and because i’m enough of an honest selfish lowlife to admit i’m not sure if i share such a sentiment, regardless of it’s obvious nobility. i’d like to think i share it, but when push comes to shove, i’m just not sure. after all, of what value is a magnificent world to one who doesn’t exist to appreciate it?! or, to put it another way, specifically in the way of a biblical quote i think is attributed to the mythical character of jesus christ: ‘for what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his own soul?’.

those of u familiar with the ways of the one and only ‘true’ church (according to it, of course), the roman catholic church, are familiar with the ‘sacrament’ of confession. supposedly it’s a way of cleansing the ‘soul’ of ‘sin’.

even now i must smh (shake my head) at how ‘the church’ has been so deservedly criticized for the infamous manner in which it has long facilitated and covered up the fact that many members of it’s clergy have abused their positions of ‘authority’ in sexually abusing children, while all along it has arguably been guilty of the much greater ‘sin’ of spiritually terrorizing every single one of it’s members/victims with it’s sick fear and shame based teaching that all humans are born with the stain of something called ‘original sin’, so that even newborns, according to this doctrine, are worthy of divine judgement and eternal damnation. along with this blanket condemnation, piled on top of it, is the teaching that every single little lie one commits, every single ‘impure thought’ (be ashamed of being a sexual animal!), is a ‘sin’ for which one must answer to god for, repent, and endlessly strive towards becoming the sort of ‘perfect’ being that the mythical christ was, and for which god will accept no less. the idea being that while of course one will never attain such ‘perfection’, as long as one believes in the myth and feels genuine ‘repentence’ (shame!) for being a ‘fallen sinner’ for the rest of one’s ‘mortal’ life, one may magnanimously be granted ‘forgiveness’ and thus escape the deserved fate of every ‘filthy’ ‘sinner’: eternal damnation. that bears repeating in all caps i think: ETERNAL DAMNATION!

like the comic george carlin (also raised catholic), upon attaining the adult ability to think and reason for myself, i rejected my catholic indoctrination, intellectually, but that doesn’t mean i got over it. i’ve never gotten over it, and never will, for ‘innocence’ once stolen, is forever lost. if nothing else, it left a profound and indelible impression of the sort of ‘world’ i’d been born into. that being an insane world in which ‘authorities’ promote psychologically crippling fear and shame inducing dogmas, all in the name of ‘truth’ and ‘morality’. all for the ultimate purpose, i now suspect, of turning children into sheeple who may be more easily deceived and manipulated for the rest of their ‘mortal’ lives.

in summary, my confession is this: i feel more resentment for having been taught a pack of psychologically crippling bullshit lies that stole my ‘innocence’, than i do for the fact that our species has collectively, over time, behaved like a disease, like a cancer, an ecological cancer that now threatens/(promises?!) to be responsible for bringing about the greatest mass extinction event in our planet’s history. in other words, i value my own pitiful little existence over that of all ‘creation! i grieve more for the loss of self than i do for the loss of something infinitely greater.

SIGH.

how ironic it is, now that i no longer believe that i will go to hell for my ‘sins’, that i now know that the ‘sins’ of homo sapiens shall bring about the eternal extinction of countless wondrous species. it seems as though eternal damnation of a sort does exist, after all! i can only hope that when i die, the fear and shame of this human experience shall be eternally ended, like a forgotten nightmare, just a bad dream.

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McPherson was interviewed by Cheri Roberts last night. It’s archived here, with the interview beginning about 35 minutes into the hour-long show.
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McPherson’s latest book is senior-authored and illustrated by Pauline Schneider. Ms. Ladybug and Mr. Honeybee: A Love Story at the End of Time can be ordered from the publisher here and also from Amazon. Trailer is embedded below.

Looking for San Francisco Bay Area folks to raise $$$$ to bring Guy to San Francisco. Please contact amyvegan@gmail.com if you are willing to donate towards Guy’s travel here.
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Catch Nature Bats Last on the radio with Mike Sliwa and Guy McPherson. To catch us live, tune in every Tuesday at 3:00 p.m. Eastern time, or catch up in the archives here. If you prefer the iTunes version, including the option to subscribe, you can click here.

This week we will converse with Forrest Palmer and Cory Morningstar. We’ll be taking calls, too.

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McPherson’s first book published in 2015 is senior-authored by Carolyn Baker. The Second, Revised edition of Extinction Dialogs: How to Live with Death in Mind is available from the publisher and also from Amazon.

Comments 112

  • @Mark Austin

    Dr. Duke’s Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical Databases

    http://www.ars-grin.gov/duke/

  • Raised in a fundamentalist house was/is no different for me.

    Like terry, I can reject it all, but the permanent damage has been done.

    KK

  • Damn! Now it is clear. Since nuclear war radiation dissipates fairly quickly, the rulers do not fear war. They simply retreat to their bunkers, overflowing with porn and food stuffs and great wines with shitty/stupid modern art ‘treasures’ only to emerge fairly soon thereafter with the population now GONE. Problems solved!

    No wonder war is good. And, all this time they pumped up while PTSDing a huge portion of the policemen that slave us (black far more than whitey but just wait) turn into court jesters and take care of the flabby bastards.

    ***********

    I have made a terrible blunder that CounterPunch has now exposed.

    They made a poster of Snowden, Manning and CORNEL WEST, that I am sure they are very ashamed of.

    West has been shown to be a supporter of War Machine Vermont Bernie.
    This is the same plunge that Mandela took, as most high profile blacks take a knee for empire.

    I met West at a Church one time in the 80’s and now he too has succumbed. The rotten ones never stop coming! I’m embarrassed to put up the link to the story. Fuck everything. It’s a done deal and I know it now.

    “What a Fool I’ve Been” MLK probably would given up too.

  • If you care about your readers & you clearly care about yourself, you may consider evaluating your obtuse & difficult personal sentence structure.

    Another positive suggestion. Your following passage is a very accurate decription of master criminal propagandist Stevie Spielberg’s malicious mis-information campaign to maim & distort the brains of millions of innocent children, most especially as in Catholicism & Judaism & dogmatic revealed religion in general.

    Lying Stevie Baby is surely not Cathlick, but he knows how to play a preverted Jesuit priest and/or a mad dog rabbi on television & on the big Bollywood screen.

    “… for ‘innocence’ once stolen, is forever lost. if nothing else, it left a profound and indelible impression of the sort of ‘world’ i’d been born into. that being an insane world in which ‘authorities’ promote psychologically crippling fear and shame inducing dogmas, all in the name of ‘truth’ and ‘morality’. all for the ultimate purpose, i now suspect, of turning children into sheeple who may be more easily deceived and manipulated for the rest of their ‘mortal’ lives.”

    I think that your expressed wishes will be answered soon – “i can only hope that when i die, the fear and shame of this human experience shall be eternally ended …”

    We will all be similarly “blessed.”

    Sigh & Cy … as in Jack Benny’s famous skit.

  • from Robert Scribbler

    Dave Person / September 10, 2015

    Hi,
    The paper to which Robert refers is one of 6 included as the 2nd part of an invited series of papers published by the Royal Society. The paper has 15 additional coauthors and really should be cited as Shakhova et al. to give a nod to those others, who I am sure worked pretty damn hard on the research. It is not just Shakhova and Semiletov’s work. Some folks made comments about climate models not including the methane leakage process described by Shakhova et al. I am sure when there are suitably quantifiable rates and parameters for the process, and the scale of the process known to be sufficiently large to add a new signal to climate change noise, the process will be included in the mainstream climate models. About 9 months ago, when the 2014 SWERUS expedition had barely wrapped up its field work and begun data analyses, some folks on this blog expressed concern that the science was being suppressed because few results of the effort had been released to the public. There was even talk about conspiracy to silence S&S. Well, the peer review and publication processes take time. Having a lot of personal experience with that process both as an author and reviewer, I would say Shakhova et al. have done well getting a significant publication out in a timely fashion.

  • Kinda problematic.

    Water cannot “become” wet.
    Fire does not attain ligtt or heat.
    There can only be a Gawd if there is a non-Gawd.
    Without a non-Gawd, there is also no Gawd.

    A pot sculptured out of ice immersed in a lake, melts.
    What ceases to exist? The water inside it? The pot? The water outside it?
    Which of them is Gawd?

    Nirvana Shatakam

    I am not the mind, the intellect, the ego or the memory,
    I am not the ears, the skin, the nose or the eyes,
    I am not space, not earth, not fire, water or wind,
    I am the form of consciousness and bliss,
    I am the eternal Shiva…

    I am not the breath, nor the five elements,
    I am not matter, nor the 5 sheaths of consciousness
    Nor am I the speech, the hands, or the feet,
    I am the form of consciousness and bliss,
    I am the eternal Shiva…

    There is no like or dislike in me, no greed or delusion,
    I know not pride or jealousy,
    I have no duty, no desire for wealth, lust or liberation,
    I am the form of consciousness and bliss,
    I am the eternal Shiva…

    No virtue or vice, no pleasure or pain,
    I need no mantras, no pilgrimage, no scriptures or rituals,
    I am not the experienced, nor the experience itself,
    I am the form of consciousness and bliss,
    I am the eternal Shiva…

    I have no fear of death, no caste or creed,
    I have no father, no mother, for I was never born,
    I am not a relative, nor a friend, nor a teacher nor a student,
    I am the form of consciousness and bliss,
    I am the eternal Shiva…

    I am devoid of duality, my form is formlessness,
    I exist everywhere, pervading all senses,
    I am neither attached, neither free nor captive,
    I am the form of consciousness and bliss,
    I am the eternal Shiva…

  • http://arctic-roos.org/ is up again, but all charts date back to 5.8.2015.

  • The radiation from the 300,000 tons of rad waste at over 400 power plants will not dissipate quickly, Shep. If there was anything that can be called “sin” it is the decimation of life by industrial civilization. BTW, I would also gladly sacrifice my life if it would make a difference. However, it would not, so you are all stuck with me and my bad attitude. Humans suck.

  • There is always a problem when the guilty seek to hide amongst those who are not guilty.

    They seek to do so by convincing the not-guilty that everyone is guilty, thus they should not be punished for their guilt.

    Thus, they confuse some who we see fire into crowds of innocent people all the time, because in their mind “everyone is guilty.”

    It is a real epidemic, have you noticed that mass shootings by individuals and by governments abound?

    That mindset has been generated by the guilty for too long ().

    The result is, among other things, that:

    … a society does not ever die ‘from natural causes’, but always dies from suicide or murder — and nearly always from the former…“, while Freud said: “Men have brought their powers of subduing the forces of nature to such a pitch that by using them they could now very easily exterminate one another to the last man. They know this –hence arises a great part of their current unrest, their dejection, their mood of apprehension.” (Civilization Is Now On Suicide Watch – 6).

    The guilty say that shit and food are all equal, are the same, so eat up.

    Bull shit, cat shit, dog shit, human shit, it is all the same.

    Eat up.

    Those are the notions of lazy, idiotic, psychopathic minds that are so reprobate they destroy civilizations one after the other.

    You Are Here 5

    Serve shit, eat shit, or what?

  • @Shallel

    Humans suck.

    By far not all humans suck. Do animals suck too in your humble opinion?

  • @Dredd, @https://guymcpherson.com/2015/09/eternal-damnation-a-sinners-confession/#comment-164916

    BEST and most intelligent comment I’ve seen for a long time on NBL ! Thank you, keep it comin !

  • Just when I imagine that the ruling class cannot possibly become more psychotic than they already are, another one opens their mouth and shatters that delusion.
    “Elon Musk says we need to drop nuclear bombs on Mars to make it livable”
    http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-says-dropping-nuclear-bombs-on-mars-would-make-it-livable-2015-9

  • All mass shootings are the Government, not individuals. Animals are cool. Most humans suck. Certainly their actions speak volumes.

  • @Shallel

    Did you know that 2/3 of the global working class work Mother Earth by hand? No, not a majority of humans suck, but a minority. And you are right:

    Certainly the action of that MINORITY suck deeply as hell. It is a global minority who brought us to NTE.

    @goavs

    Yeah, I can smell the fear-sweat of the ruling class, whooouuu, as they seek to flee to Mars, muhahaha 😎

  • The Bible DOES NOT say that the damned will suffer in Hell for eternity. The Catholic church thought that one up. What the Bible DOES SAY is that when the “Damned” enter the Eternal Fire of Hell , they would be consumed by that fire and “Perish” (Greek word Apollumi to destroy completely) and cease to exist just like a piece of paper that is thrown into the fire and is no more.

    On Prof. McPhersons offer of self sacrifice , the Bible says ” The greatest expression of love is when a man lays down his life for his friend.” (paraphrased) I think that is what Guy means. That is what Jesus did for all of us . To save us from being destroyed in Hell for our sins He willingly died for us on the cross and the sacrifice is for all who would believe in Him and serve Him. We all have that choice. None of us has an excuse if we are willingly ignorant of the free gift that our Creator has given us.

  • I defer and agree, Curious.

  • Well, unfortunately, I think our straws were drawn and our lots cast before the Bible or any of its mythological beings were even imagined.

    As Guy has often pointed out, when we gave up the hunter-gatherer life for settlements and agriculture, the writing was, essentially, writ large on the cave walls. This was a new idea for me that I discovered here at NBL a few years ago, but thinking it through, I see the logic in it, and I think he’s right.

    My wife and I recently watched a great documentary about the History of Ancient Britain the was aired on BBC-2 in 2011. The host is Scottish anthropologist Niel Oliver, who has quite a personality and a wonderful accent. You can watch it here: http://www.CuriosityStream.com.

    It was really interesting reviewing the physical evidence documenting the transition from hunter-gatherers to keepers of domesticated animals, planters and savers of seeds, and the creation of permanent stone structures. Once we build something by planting stones, we are establishing place — OUR place. A place we live and defend.

    That many of these stones placed carefully in the ground had astronomical alignments, and were part of ceremonies and rites of passage — the development of belief systems, mythologies, and yes, even religions, only gave us a sense of divine justification for our actions.

    I think as soon as we had a place to defend, we needed rulers and decision-makers, and we developed a stratified society of wealth, power, influence, labor, trade, and some currency for keeping track of it all. Our populations swelled under this system, and there was no turning back to hunting game for subsistence. As soon as we learned to harvest and plant certain grains, we needed to defend these plantings, and defend the seed stores, or we’d go without food and die.

    There may be examples of modern-day people that feed themselves without a currency or caste system, but this will only work on a very small, local scale. I suspect we were doomed well over 5,000 years ago. I’m not sure any of us would have done any differently had we been alive at the various tipping points of these transitions, so I’m not sure its useful to beat up our parents’ or grandparents’ generations for doing this, or not that — I’m not at all convinced it would have mattered.

  • I think as soon as we had a place to defend, we needed rulers and decision-makers, and we developed a stratified society of wealth, power, influence, labor, trade, and some currency for keeping track of it all.

    Well, yeah, I know that tale quite too well, that’s exactly the tale of the rulers I have always been told^^ I don’t need any rulers, I don’t need decision-makers, I am the ruler of myself, I am the decision-maker of my own decisions. Do you know the tale of Gilgamesh? HE was a ruler, one of the first rulers of modern civilisation. He is the prototype of a ruler. He and those rulers always tried to break the Laws of Nature, always exploited humans and Mother Earth, always cheated, always enslaved Mother Earth, man and animals AGAINST THEIR WILL. So, nobody can say that “WE” needed, that “we” wanted those rulers against our will and against our very own interests. I don’t need, I don’t want to be exploited, but those rulers want US to exploit and cheat always and always. Gilgamesh had a price to pay when he slaughtered Humbaba and the modern rulers will have to pay the very same price. Sorry, but that’s just Karma.

  • Guy McPherson posted this on his Twitter- Account 16 hours ago:

    The response of politicians, heads of non-governmental organizations and corporate leaders remains the same ~ http://t.co/7M75n5aTVS

    Now, THAT’s about the rulers.

  • thevirginterry – I’m with Guy on this one although I can relate to what you write about. If – the big IF -I could change this mess we’ve made by sacrificing my own life, I would do it in a heartbeat.
    We all die anyway. Anyone who is aware of what we are doing to the rest of life (and ourselves) has to live out their days watching the destruction of the planet and the diminishing and disappearence of birds ,mammals,fish,insects,etc.It is a painful thing to live with.

    What a gift it would be to have the power to end ALL of that simply by ceasing to exist.

    Shallel said – Humans suck!

    I have an old etch-a-sketch that I wrote PEOPLE SUCK on 10+ yrs ago and it is still clearly written. I tend to like enough individual humans to have adopted the idea that Humanity Sucks but each person can be considered sucky or not on a case by case basis.

    In my minds eye I see beautiful Earth with a giant straw stuck in her and a bloated,botoxed set of lips sucking all of the color out of it.
    The lips are Humanity and I am hardpressed to say that we don’t suck when I see what we do.

  • Shallel,

    Yes. I was thinking of Nuclear war alone per Mark Austin’s comment (if I got it right). I did not think of the melt downs, tho.

    The boobs I’m talking about, the bunker boys, probably have a new technology, they think, that will skirt the Nuclear Plant meltdowns, OR, technology will think of something to save them. Maybe a cyanide pill. About as loony as getting to Mars after the nuclear explosions purify the surface for habitation. Wonder how many slaves they plan on taking. Ha.

  • ‘would gladly sacrifice his own life if only such an act could save our planet’s ecosphere from the condemnation that industrial civilization is in the process of bestowing upon it….. i’m enough of an honest selfish lowlife to admit i’m not sure if i share such a sentiment, regardless of it’s obvious nobility. i’d like to think i share it, but when push comes to shove, i’m just not sure. after all, of what value is a magnificent world to one who doesn’t exist to appreciate it?!

    In the Second World War about 20 million Russians died, a large portion of them defending ‘their’ country from the invaders in the Great Patriotic War.

    You frequently tell us you are living in a dystopian shit hole. But are you now telling us you want to continue living in a dystopian shit hole and would rather the dystopian shit hole continue than end your life prematurely =, if that were to end the tyranny???

    ‘i value my own pitiful little existence over that of all ‘creation!’

    Everyone dies, Terry, some though natural causes, some at the hands of others, and many as victims of the money-lender industrial system. Indeed, many living in industrial societies die as slaves, never knowing they were slaves and never knowing what living is.

    Fortunately my father kept me well away from all the church abuse systems, though the UK ‘education’ system did manage to fill me with guilt and fear for a while.

  • The instilling of fear into children by organised religion has outraged me as well,Terry.
    Ah, the delights our human created myths endow. Endless.
    I remember an historical account related in ‘The End of Faith’ by Sam Harris. A bishop was called to the bed of a dying woman. He spent some time
    trying to convince her of the horrors in store unless she converted to his faith. She repeatedly refused,whereupon the bishop had her bed carried outside,a fire built under it,and the woman,who was too weak to leave the bed,was burnt alive.

    As Christopher Hitchens said,we have the right to remember how the church behaved when it had a stranglehold on the lives of people.

  • “If you’re not angry
    you’re just stupid
    or you don’t care
    how else can you react
    when you know
    something’s so unfair
    when the men of the hour
    can kill half the world in war
    make them slaves to a super power
    and let them die poor

    I was locked
    into being my mother’s daughter
    I was just eating bread and water
    thinking nothing ever changes
    and I was shocked
    to see the mistakes of each generation
    will just fade like a radio station
    if you drive out of range”

    -Ani DiFranco “Out of Range”

  • I remember it like it was yesterday. One morning in December, 1979, I was working as a carpenter for a “custom” home developer (really, they were “tract” homes with only about 4 or 5 different floor plans, the suckers, oops, buyers never knew the difference) on a house in the North-Star-at-Tahoe community, the south end of the Truckee Valley. An hour or so before I arrived on the job site (about 7am local), Willard Scott had pronounced that the town of Truckee (at the North end of the valley) was the coldest spot in The Nation (though I’m relatively sure he meant just the lower 48). Three of our 5-man crew were already there, one of whom was a “part-time” preacher at some church outside of Truckee. Anyway, upon joining them at the “fire-barrel” I remarked, “Holy shit it’s cold!” (BTW, the temp was -5F at 6200+ ft ASL.) At which point the preacher said, “I’m sure there is no such thing!” (He was, of course, referring to “holy shit.”) Unfazed, I asked, “Well then, just what does Jesus leave in the toilet every day?” Thankfully, he never talked to me after that and he quit about a month later. 🙂

  • Richard Carrier Deconstructs Christianity in One Hour

    “Dr. Richard Carrier deconstructs the mythological origins of Christianity as well as how it has adapted through the centuries in this one hour interview. He addresses the evolution of early Christianity through the lens of myth and the politics of the second and third century of the Roman empire.”

    “In 2014 Dr. Carrier published his latest book entitled: “On the Historicity of Jesus: Why We Might Have Reason for Doubt” , which is “the first comprehensive pro-Jesus myth book ever published by a respected academic press and under formal peer review”

  • @Curious Sorry for expressing myself poorly.

    While I wrote “we needed rulers and decision-makers, and we developed a stratified society…” I certainly do NOT think we needed these, nor do I defend those developments — poor choice of words — but that we somehow empowered rulers and our societies evolved to include these aspects.

    Were there sociopaths among us 5000 years ago? Certainly, and probably much earlier than that. When one audacious and charismatic person builds a group of followers, all hell can be released, and one power-hungry sociopath sets himself up to control trade, accumulate wealth, and rule over the less powerful. Same as it ever was.

    Not a good thing, and not something I defend, but I suspect there is a certain percentage of humans that thrive in a dog-eat-dog world of might makes right. A sad commentary on the human species.

    Now, what about a society based on the rule of law? One in which there are rules against self-serving behavior, greed and mistreatment of others? A person breaking society’s rules would be punished, reprimanded, or removed from the society, right? Well, yes, in theory, but what of Caesar Augustus crossing the Rubicon to challenge and then overthrow Rome? If a sociopath accumulates enough power, we’re right back to might makes right. At some level, humans do suck.

  • TVT,

    Thanks. Touching “account.” I was badly screwed over too, but not (overtly) because of the church. I could say the same thing as this:

    “…the sort of ‘world’ i’d been born into. that being an insane world in which ‘authorities’ promote psychologically crippling fear and shame…”

    In my case, it had to do with the most hideous bullshit over race, class and “status.” Well, I suppose that when it came to the latter, the Christian church had a big role after all.

  • Societies are hierarchical, held together with enforcement of vertical transactions through the threat of coercive violence, and control of horizontal interactions through monitoring, proscription and prescription and their usurpation through taxation and other regulation. They are breeding grounds for psychopaths.

    Communities are non-hierarchical, and cohere with voluntary, non-coercive, non-violent horizontal interactions, very few of which are transactions. They are much less resource intensive than societies. With increasing resource constraints, societies tend to dismantle communities, but when societies fail, they are at least initially replaced by communities.

  • You might find this 25 second video interesting. Australia’s most imbecilic,climate-change denying prime minister,fucking laughing about the Pacific Islands going under the rising oceans. I cannot describe how angry
    I am at this man and his moronic minister,who makes the joke that Abbot laughs at. Have a read of the comments. At least some Australians have a brain.https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/sep/11/peter-dutton-jokes-with-tony-abbott-about-rising-sea-levels-in-pacific-nations

  • Interesting story.

    I personally disagree with your conclusions though. I think that we are facing the results of our global collective efforts of sinning. Sin works death so ultimately the wicked ways will cause self destruction. However we haven’t reached the end yet and I believe that the years that will follow now will become much worse.

    We’re not only going to experience a climate disaster. Soon we’ll have an escalation of economic mayhem, civil unrest, civil wars, wars, global wars, famines and runaway epidemics.

  • NMMark,

    I seem to have lost track of the consolidation of communication companies. I keep seeing CBS and and ABC as owned, apparently, by the same company. I did not know we have a grand and royal of two networks now???

    Do u know when this took place??

    How soon before there is only one Pravda?? Or, does Murdock maybe own ALL of them at this point. The man needs the death penalty for murdering way too many people.

  • Cartoon News Network, False Oily Xenephobes, BSNBC, All Bull Crap, Constant Bull Shit, British Bullshit Corporation, National Premenstrual Radio – Thanks for you complicity in 9/11 Fakery and Coverup, and your continued work for the moneyed elites and CIA psychopaths. They could never have done it without you!

  • @BVinVT

    The upcoming of rulers (like Gilgamesh, see http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/eog/eog03.htm ) happened about 10 000 years ago when agriculture and settlement began. We can trace that back to Çatal Hüyük, Göbekli Tepe, Mesopotamia, Babylon ect without any doubt. Bevor that time the Shaman was the central figure of culture. A Shaman is no ruler, but an advisor and a servant to his community, a Shaman serves as a mediator between the seen and the unseen worlds. This side, Nature is the world that can be seen and culture, spirituality, mind is the world that cannot be seen, it is the beyond, the other side, the otherworld. There are still communities that live in peace and harmony with nature, without destroying nature, without slavery, just like it has been for millions of years on Mother Earth. Those communities always urged modern society to live in harmony with nature. <bThe great majority of the human population lives in poverty, they have no power, no money. There are those who exploit and those who are beeing exploited against their will, by brute force. Be on your guard!: Who might be interested in propagating that all humans are thiefs, slavedrivers, suckers, exploiters, meat robots without any free will? Just look up!

    I’d like to point to the thoughtful comment of Robin Datta:

    eternal damnation (a sinner’s confession)

    @babajingo

    Thanks for that inspiring poem of Ani DiFranco!

  • Professor Stefan Rahmstorf gave an interview yesterday explaining how the devestating drought in North-Africa (that caused much of the european refugee crisis) will lead to the end of the fertile half moon- The End of Babylon (sorry, only german at this time):

    10.9.2015 – Syrien: Erst die Dürre, dann der Bürgerkrieg

    … Der fruchtbare Halbmond östlich des Mittelmeers war die Wiege der Zivilisation, im Zweistromland zwischen Euphrat und Tigris entstanden vor 12.000 Jahren zuerst Ackerbau und Viehzucht – und in der Folge die erste Städte. Was ist seine Zukunft?

    Klimamodelle sagen einen anhaltenden Trend zu immer stärkerem Wassermangel in dieser Region vorher. Schon 2008 warnte deshalb eine Studie, der fruchtbare Halbmond werde als solcher verschwinden.

    http://www.fr-online.de/syrien/syrien-erst-die-duerre–dann-der-buergerkrieg,24136514,31773606.html?dmcid=sm_tw

    If somebody is interested, I will try to translate parts of the interview…

  • Some truly depressing info especially in light of the extremely elementary quiz questions. Obi-wan, there is NO hope! 🙁

    American adults get a D in science; 22% confuse astronomy and astrology

    For the “origin” of the above story and to see how you rate (if you dare)…

    A Look at What the Public Knows and Does Not Know About Science

    Actually, I think the term abysmal doesn’t even adequately describe this dearth of “knowledge.”

  • The steady stream of engineered “news” that the bloodthirsty mayhem & murder in Syria is the singular result of drought is massive distortion & Israeli/Merican orchestrated disinformation.

    One million innocent Iraqis were murdered in cold blood & Iraq was turned into a heap of rubble right in front of us by the brave Merican military w/o any drought as an excuse.

    Drought is surely a variable in Syria’s suffering, but Israel’s ongoing Oded Yinon Plan is a much bigger variable w/o question.

    Just remember Hilarious continually wailing, “Assad must go!”

    Just today, Sec of War, Ashton Carter, waxed political with his astute observation that Iraq & Syria may become “failed states.”

    Just what Israel & the Oded Yinon Plan ordered.

    Syria has been battling against the ongoing Israeli genocide of indigenous Palestinians & Israeli land theft for almost 100 years.

    Today, Israel has Syria battling for its own survival thanks to Israeli Neocon designs & Israeli control of the U.S. government.

    Read the murdering Israeli plans plans here; Project for the New American Century – Profile – Right Web – Institute for Policy Studies

    Read more of mad dog Israel’s malicious machinations for the Middle East here;
    “A New Strategy for Securing the Realm.”

    A few days ago establishment operative, Robert Scribbler, was selling a long piece about how Syria was being devastated by drought & drought alone, but G-man Scribbler never mentioned Israel.

  • SECOND ATTEMPT TO POST.

    The mystical Federal Reserve Bank & its corrupt bankster profiteers are as bamboozling shuck & jive mysticism as any revealed religion.

    But these flesh & blood bankster bloodsuckers seldom get the contempt that they deserve.

    WHAT WILL THE BIG FED BANKSTERS DO WITH INTEREST RATES IS THE MANTRA, but economic determinism is anathema?

    Go figure, & it’s not difficult.

    The supreme bloodsucking belief system & revealed religion on the planet, but don’t ask!

    Economics is the religious justification of the guffawing banksters’ lucrative extortion racket with bloodsucking debt & continually expanding compound interest.

    Sec of the Treasury, Hank Paulson, summed up the whole game when the debt game crashed in 2008.

    Hank sermonized the bankster monopoly’s sacred religious principle; “We want people to be able to get the credit that they NEED!”

    Tens of thousands of otherwise intact human brains learned the sacred bloodsucking bamboozle & willingly taught it to others in colleges & universites supposedly dedicated to learning & truth.

    The impeccably dressed legal system is more well dressed control from above by your bloodsucking betters with licenses to steal your blood.

    I fully accept that we have all been conditioned to believe the pure horseshit that almost all of our sanctimonious “elders” have taught us.

    Even though we are all doomed to ugly death by the continually expanding & exploiting sacred religion of usurious debt, we can place the blame where it belongs because debt & its repayment is LORD AMIGHTY!

    If you want to attack THE relgious bamboozle, make sure you go after the right religion.

  • From Mark Twain:

    Well, the 19th century made progress—the first progress after “ages and ages”—colossal progress. In what? Materialities. Prodigious acquisitions were made in things which add to the comfort of many and make life harder for as many more. But the addition to righteousness? Is that discoverable? I think not. The materialities were not invented in the interest of righteousness; that there is more righteousness in the world because of them than there, was before, is hardly demonstrable, I think. In Europe and America, there is a vast change (due to them) in ideals—do you admire it? All Europe and all America, are feverishly scrambling for money. Money is the supreme ideal—all others take tenth place with the great bulk of the nations named. Money-lust has always existed, but not in the history of the world was it ever a craze, a madness, until your time and mine. This lust has rotted these nations; it has made them hard, sordid, ungentle, dishonest, oppressive.

    ~ Mark Twain, Letter to Rev. J. H. Twichell, Hartford, March 14, 1905

  • @Gerald Spezio

    Don’t mind, if it makes you happy, Israel will go down as well, together with Syria, Yemen, Jordan ect, the whole middle east will soon face water wars:

    7.9.2015 – Middle East Faces Water Shortages for the Next 25 Years

    http://www.climatecentral.org/news/middle-east-faces-water-shortages-19412

    5.9.2015 – Drought in Middle East may result in war for water

    http://news.am/eng/news/284818.html

  • David Higham- That clip has me reconsidering going on a hunger strike. How does that saying go, that there’s no such thing as staying neutral, because being neutral means you’re siding with the powerful? I watch them stand there and laugh and by doing nothing about it, I feel like I’m just letting them win, and they’re really laughing at all of us.

    Shep- ABC is owned by Disney and CBS is owned by Viacom. But yes, there are only like 5 or 6 companies that own everything…

    Curious- if you like the Ani poem (actually, those are lyrics from a kick ass song!) you might enjoy her music- sorry if you have to sit through an ad, but she is THE BOMB:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsITqgHXtMA

  • ‘As Guy has often pointed out, when we gave up the hunter-gatherer life for settlements and agriculture, the writing was, essentially, writ large on the cave walls. This was a new idea for me that I discovered here at NBL a few years ago, but thinking it through, I see the logic in it, and I think he’s right.’ -BVinVT

    i do too.

    as i’ve writ several times b4 (before), i think free will is an illusion. it seems to me that the past largely, if not completely, determines the present, and together, the past and present largely, if not completely, determine the future.

    who chooses to be born? who chose to be born human? who chose their gender, their preference in sex, their parents/family/culture, their economic class, where and when u were born? who gets to choose their unique genetic make-up, which shall determine to a very large extent the abilities, the vulnerabilities, the flaws, the personality and character that one has? who gets to choose all the unpredictable and uncontrollable ‘black swan’ events that shall also shape their destiny?

    clearly, in most if not all important ways we have exercised absolutely no free will in our lives. we have no free will over the sort of world we live in, or ability to avert the ecological disaster that’s ongoing and threatens/(promises?!) our extinction along with countless other species.

    we’re not in charge here, folks. i don’t know if anything/one is, but i’m pretty sure we’re not.
    __________________________________________

    colin, thanks for the “holy shit” joke. made me laugh.

    david higham, thanks for the new yorker article link re. scientists and atheism, and for sympathizing with me.

    thanks to others as well for your comments. i’m a day behind in reading them, as i send this.

  • @babajingo:

    Straight to the point the lyrics of Ani DiFranco, I like that:

    “Fuel” by Ani DiFranco

    They were digging a new foundation in manhattan
    and they discovered a slave cemetery there
    may their souls rest easy now that lynching is frowned upon
    and we’ve moved on to the electric chair…


    Nihilism is a trap, just like materialism and consumerism is a trap, in fact, they do have much in common, like two sides of one coin, nihilism and consumerism/(scientific) materialism go together, saying:

    Everything is just material stuff, matter, nope else, just brains, meat robots, no mind or if it’s mind, it’s just brain too. So let’s have a good time, let’s consume, eat, drink and then die- finished.

    When this is the last word about us, then this blog is just a waste of time. In fact, then everything is just waste of time and making such a statement is also a waste of time. Look at Nature:

    She doesn’t care about if it’s mind or matter, god or coincidence. Nature does not know about life and death either, nor does she know about science or religion. But Nature is pure art, pure effectiveness, pure creativity, Music, Evolution in the very meaning of the word.

    Evolution means the evolving Universe in every second, within every breath, every thought, every feeling, while living, while dying. This evolving Universe, this evolving something/everything/no- thing does not know of death as a final end, but only as a door to new life. We are this Universe beyond life and death, dreaming life and death, like cosmic childs, sleeping, unborn, dreaming within the Cosmic Womb, an unborn Cosmic Flower, Something/Everything/No- Thing…

    http://www.iaacblog.com/maa2013-2014-economics-sustainability/files/2013/12/treeman.jpg

  • Why does everyone believe that there was no overlap between hunting/gathering and agriculture? Throughout the entire western hemisphere there were millions of people, tens of millions, even a hundred million people who were both hunter-gatherer and agricultural societies. I’m not entirely sure how the Incas and other South American cultures did it, but I know that Central American cultures and a majority of the North American Native American cultures were quite gifted agriculturalists and farmers, and hunter-gatherer societies. This occurred over thousands of years and was still going on when Europeans arrived.

    So, where is this magical, opps, I mean cosmic downward shift in human behavior that occurred when humans started growing food, because it just did not happen that way everywhere on earth, and I would think that people with so much respect for science – that is, facts, reality, knowledge – would be able to integrate these facts into their own worldviews, because they are not debatable. There’s no interpretation required.

    Agriculture did not equal civilization in all cultures and societies in the world. It simply is not the case. If your foundational premise is incorrect in this way, then every establishment of fact that follows must also be incorrect.

  • @ogf, I think “civilization” is a word which defines itself as having to do with cities, and cities by their very nature are supported by agriculture and not foraging. “Civilization” doesn’t mean the same thing as culture. I don’t think it should be taken as the positively-loaded term as some might see it, rather just a descriptor of a certain living arrangement.

    From what I have read agriculture did arise more-or-less simultaneously in various parts of the world, and likely for reasons of scarcity of foodstuffs that would just come to hand with little effort. It wasn’t sudden, though, you are right. I was just reading about how walnut trees were probably planted along trails of human migration. A lot of horticulture/permaculture and informal cultivation went on before becoming what we think of as formal agriculture. Agriculture, though, is still a technology that vastly increased the amount of food that could be extracted from a given area: that’s always been the trend. Once the population grew in line with that new, generally larger, supply, it was impossible to revert to foraging, and becomes increasingly unlikely and impossible with each generation and each new technology we employ to extract food energy, even as we arrive at a net energy deficit, as we currently do.

    I don’t think this was a magical shift in human behavior in either direction, just more of the same cleverness that allowed for developing tools or weapons, for example.

  • Thank you, Lidia. My post was more than semi-rhetorical, and my point is about logic and language and framing, but I use culture to examine the premise that I read repeated here concerning how there were HGs or agriculture, and agriculture equals civilization. At least that appears to be the explanation as I can best interpret it based on how people write it.

    I don’t see it as being that simplistic. There was a lot of quite excellent agriculture going on in the west. I understand that the Aztecs and the Incas, true civilizations in the sense of city-states, very certainly didn’t hunt, fish and gather as other societies did that also had agriculture. But I think the extent of agriculture that was going on in the west would bring some of these widely accepted understandings about agriculture, hunter-gatherer societies and civilization, because the west doesn’t fit the story.

    And I believe that the Mayans did fail as a city-civilization, because of messing up the surrounding environment, and they did disperse back into smaller tribal groups, and I believe the mound building societies and cultures of North America may have done the same.

  • correction, please excuse third post,

    I think the extent of agriculture that was going on in the west would bring to question some of these widely accepted understandings about agriculture, hunter-gatherer societies and civilization.

  • @ Colin

    Yep, adults are borderline literate in the sciences and headed in the wrong direction.

    Little wonder, given that boys are better in science and math but are only getting half as many college degrees.

    The system is set-up to fail.

  • Brains and bodies that are starved of essential nutrients do not perform well.

  • Phil Morrison said:

    “boys are better in science and math but are only getting half as many college degrees”

    Um… pardon me? Care to get back in your time machine and return to the 21st century?? Everything about that sentence is incorrect.

    1) This idea that boys are inherently better at math and science while girls are inherently better at reading and art has been debunked over and over again. Gender bias in the educational environment accounts for the discrepancies in achievement.

    2) In 2014/2015, men earned 789,000 college degrees, while women earned 1,063,000. That’s not half. That’s 75%.

    But what do I know. I’m just a girl…

  • In the not-so -distant future,the debate will probably have shifted to:
    ‘Who are the most tasty,Vegetarians or non-vegetarians?’
    (joke) (I hope)

  • The FBI defines mass murder as murdering four or more persons during an event with no “cooling-off period” between the murders.” – (Wikipedia)

  • Yesterday, I posted a condemnation of the Federal reserve as a fundamentalist religion.

    Today, radical economist Hossein-Zadeh published this clearly stated piece at Counterpunch.

    MYSTIFYING & JUSTIFYING FINANCE CAPITAL & THE IRRELEVANCE OF MAINSTREAM ECONOMICS

    Despite the fact that the manufacturers of ideas have elevated economics to the (contradictory) levels of both a science and a religion, a market theodicy, mainstream economics does not explain much when it comes to an understanding of real world developments.

    Indeed, as a neatly stylized discipline, economics has evolved into a corrupt, obfuscating and useless—nay, harmful—field of study. Harmful, because instead of explaining and clarifying it tends to mystify and justify.

    It is therefore no exaggeration to argue that, in the age of finance capital, central banks have evolved as institutions designed to subsidize the powerful financial interests with public money. Win-win gambling is, of course, an oxymoronic expression.

    Yet, that’s exactly what Wall Street banks and other financial institutions are enjoying nowadays: they win as long as the financial bubbles they create continue expanding, but they also win when the bubbles burst; as they are then compensated for their losses with bail-out monies and all kinds of other shady rescue plans.

    Counterpunch; The Age of Finance Capital—and the Irrelevance of Mainstream Economics

  • @twimc

    Not only are boys getting screwed a lower college levels, but girls are getting twice as many advanced degrees (21% v 39% per US Census Bureau)

  • Yes there is no doubt about it now. The change in higher education demographics has proven that women are just as willing and capable as the men of being the managers and legitimizers of Empire – no questions asked as long as the status and money are there.

    Congratulations on earning your degree – you are now Empire approved. We have a place for you.

  • I first tried to post this about 3 hours ago.

    It is an established fact that the the bizarre “profession” of economics has consistently ignored deadly CO2 pollution.

    Much of my life long intellectual quest & hobby horse is contained in this statement;

    “Indeed, as a neatly stylized discipline, economics has evolved into a corrupt, obfuscating and useless—nay, harmful—field of study. Harmful, because instead of explaining and clarifying it tends to mystify and justify.”

    I cannot understand the chaotic diversity of nature w/o the intellectual concept of evolution.

    Ditto for trying to grasp why we will all soon be suffering agonies as we die.

    The pollution of our atmospheric commons with the waste product of CO2 from fossil fuel burning will surely kill us.

    This rudimentary fact was consistenly ignored by the preeminent profession of economics.

    This not in dispute by objective scientific observers, even as we approach our deaths as a result.

    Although the establishment perpetrators didn’t mean it as a deadly justifying discipline, economics is, w/o qualification, THE elaborate & esoteric justification for our upcoming ugly deaths.

    There won’t be any survivors.

    All innocent smiling children will die.

    Our species & many others are doomed.

    The CO2 waste product that unquestioably will kill us all was & still is considered an irrelevant EXTERNALITY by the preening disciples of economics.

    Es verdad!

    Albert Camus’ aphorism that the end of the intellectual life is failure writ large & ugly.

  • According to a Gallup poll on global warming, 40% of ‘Concerned Believers’ (those who attribute global warming to human actions and are worried about it) are male; 60% are female.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/168620/one-four-solidly-skeptical-global-warming.aspx

  • Anyone else frustrated in attempts to leave a comment at Mons Angelorum?

    I have tried, using three different user names,and have got the same “Error: invalid username” each time.

    Ulvfugl…if you’re reading this, the last few posts,re breathing have been much appreciated by me. Please keep exploring any techniques for building energy and courage. We will soon need both in spades.

  • Keith Lockett, one of my early mentors, always maintained that economics was not a subject and could not be taught because: “unlike with physics, there is not one principle in economics that can be relied upon to apply from one day to the next”. There was a degree of hyperbole in that statement, but what Keith was saying (30 years ago) was that the principles upon which modern economics were (are) based had (have) no basis.

    With that as my starting point, over a period of a couple of decades I discovered the truth about economics. Modern economics in an utter travesty of the original meaning of the word, and is one of the biggest frauds in all of history. Pretending to study the factors that govern the movement of goods, services and money, modern economists ignore all the factors that govern the operation of the system, in particular resources, energy and waste, and the exponential function.

    Not only that, but they also attribute positive values to negative aspects as generate the entirely phony GDP index, and on to pronounce GDP growth as the god that must be worshipped. The more accidents, wars, family break-ups, illness etc. there are, the better the GDP. More transactions equals progress in their bizarre cult. Chop down that tree and shred it: excellent. Dig a hole and then fill it: wonderful. smash a perfectly serviceable building and construct something else; splendid. Smash your car and buy a new one; superb. Get sick and go to the doctor: nice. Buy pharmaceutical: well done. Burn up fuel driving to a sports event, get drunk, smash your car, get divorced, burn down your house -now you’re being a really good citizen.

    Bought-and-paid-for politicians shout the ‘virtues’ of the GDP-growth cult at the tops of their voices, and the prostituted bought-and-paid-for mass media cheerlead rapid destruction of the very systems that make life-as-we–know-it possible, lying to the general populace on a continuous basis.

    Corrupt, lying council officials extort money from ratepayers and spend it promoting destruction of the community they pretend to serve.

    Behind all these sit the central banks, which create ever-bigger supplies of money out of thin air to ensure that the insane consume-your-life-support system continues a little longer.

    The for-a-quick-profit mass media ensure that only corrupt liars ever get into positions of power, thereby ensuring that the entire toxic, scam system continues, and that it brings about ruination of everything that matters.

    And only a tiny portion of the populace have the wit to see through the game.

    How can there possibly be any hope, other than that derived from knowing the entire system must collapse soon as a consequence of declining EROEI, environmental collapse, and out-of-control exponential functions?

  • ‘the principles upon which modern economics were (are) based had (have) no basis’

    my personal definition of dogmas is that they are beliefs or assertions that have no logical or factual basis. perhaps i should place the qualifier/adjective term ‘sound’ before the word ‘logical’ in that sentence. because sadly, sheeple don’t all agree on what constitutes ‘logic’ or even sound logic, because as we more or less agree, sheeple in general aren’t very rational or well informed… anyway, my point in responding to u kevin is that economics, like religion, is generally dogmatic bs. i think this a better way to say what u said. dogmas have a basis, it’s just not factual or rational. it’s faith or just plain insane. just because a basis or base isn’t sound, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

    other than that, i loved your rant.

    (sigh) i have nothing better to do with my fleeting time than this. sad but true

  • Most of the small percentage of the populace who understand the flaws of the foundational principles of mainstream economics think that industrial civilisation can be maintained if we were to change to a steady state economy,as espoused by Herman Daly.
    That is not correct.The truth is that a steady state system in some form is a prerequisite for the long term existence of humans on this planet,but industrial civilisation has unavoidable systemic flaws that are not addressed by the steady state economists.
    If there are new readers here that want a brief summary of those flaws,with references to books that explain each one in greater detail, I wrote a longish comment under the ‘Bloodwatch’ thread on the’ Collapse of industrial Civilisation ‘site.
    Or maybe there is some essay on this site that someone else can direct
    new readers to. I haven’t read through all of the earlier essays here.

  • An Introduction to Ecological Economics

    Primary, Secondary and Tertiary economies:
    Primary (resources) => Secondary (Products) => Wastes

    Conversion from primary to secondary requires skilful application of controlled energy flows.
    Money, stock snares, bonds, and derivatives are various tokens purported to represent value in the primary and secondary economies and are used to control transactions and movement in the primary and secondary economies.

    Economic growth is the increase in the RATE of conversion of resources into products.

    A steady state economy has a constant RATE of conversion of resource into product.

    If the rate of conversion of a resource exceeds the rate of its replenishment, it will be depleted. Even under steady state conditions.

  • PHIL MORRISON – Thanks for Dr. Dukesdata base

    Babajingo made an excellent point in a private letter to me: “potential viruses being unleashed from the permafrost in the Arctic, and of course all the article was focusing on was, “could this be dangerous for human beings?” Fuck everything else, right? Who cares if it’s a virus that “only” kills wolves or bears or whatever. I mean seriously, given our absolute self absorption, we never had a chance as a species.”

    309,781 Tons of Radioactive waste & growing. That is the absolute worst thing humans pass on to future evolution. Mother Earth will have lot’s of mutant sick creatures because we are too mean selfish & lazy to make any serious effort to stop mining & enriching uranium. Fingerprint of genetic help upon the Tardigrades & Thermophiles who might stand a chance to thrive here after us.

    SHEP – The super rich are so spoiled and myopic they keep forgetting we will have over 406 reactors running world wide by next year.

  • Yes Terry, the foundations upon which modern economics is based are illogical, incoherent, fraudulent and mathematically impossible. Economics has more in common with astrology or tarot card reading than science: the really clever part was to get economics established as a science and then get the mumbo-jumbo that constitutes economics taught in schools and universities. And dupe the bulk of the populace into thinking they cannot do without economics or economists.

    TINA (There Is No Alternative), coined in the 1980s, I believe, lives on.

    TINAists effectively now declare that ‘there is no alternative’ to rendering the Earth largely (or completely) uninhabitable for humans and most other vertebrate species, because ‘there is no alternative’ to energy-squandering, resource-squandering, highly-polluting, global corporate fascism.

  • Software is now revised (Beta 2).

    It reveals the location of every tide gauge on the planet, the sea level when the gauge first began to be used (some of the data goes as far back as the early 1800’s), continuing up until 2014.

    This allows one to determine whether the RLR for that latitude and longitude is sea level rise (SLR) or sea level fall (SLF).

    Both SLR and SLF are happening, depending on the location.

    (New Type of SLC Detection Model – 2)

  • @twimc

    In 1910, the Anglo/Zion bankers determined that Communism
    was the best operating system for the New World Order.

    These bankers orchestrated and financed the Bolshevik Revolution and successfully set-up Communism.

    Now, finally, Obama & The Bankers are coming to Broadway.

    Before you buy tickets, remember what Stalin said, “Communism doesn’t work without terror.”

  • Regarding the whole ‘sinner confessional’ thing, I’ve often wondered how folks who claim to believe in God can then go and obliterate everything God supposedly created. If one truly believes in God, it would seem to me that that person should have a profound and sacred duty to protect God’s wondrous creation. Sadly, it doesn’t seem to work that way.

    Humanity really is beyond redemption. It’s just a pity so many other species have to pay the ultimate price for our diabolical wickedness.

  • Now that there’s a profit to made off it, the truth is suddenly just dandy!

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/its-hot-outside-could-this-machine-be-the-answer-to-global-warming/

  • Thanks, Kirk. Interesting info. Looks like somebody’s trying to solve a problem with the same mindset that caused it. Ah well. But making use of waste always seems like a good idea per se. If this technology is applicable anywhere, maybe it would be around nuclear plants?

  • cuntagious, from what I understand a lot of evangelicals subscribe to the notion that a.) the earth was only created for man’s exploitation, so thatz whut god sayz pfffbbbfft… who cares.., and b.) the physical return of Jesus will involve him “cleaning up the Earth” to whatever extent necessary in or around his second (third? are they forgetting the Pentecost?) coming, which is rather rare in men!

    For a long time I tried to reckon with religious thinking the way you indicate in your post, but this is a fruitless pursuit because they are Non-Rational. Garbage In = Garbage Out.

    The most basic challenge—which can’t ever be truly answered by those who think a god character “made” us, or “made” the universe—is, “who made such&such god character to begin with?” These are all presumptions based on a restricted anthropocentric homo-faber-type mentality. We “make” things, and so things must “make” us.

    Days ago I wrote a long comment to tvt that disappeared, but I agree that, perversely, our species has gone on to confirm certain of religionists’ expectations. Calvin asserted that each newborn baby was a “seething sack of sin”, and what ecologist can countermand that, who wants to preserve ecological diversity?

    The primary “sin” of religion, however, is to offer up redemption from our current-and-eternal state of affairs: whether it be the spittle-flecked and implacably determinist Calvinist version of irredeemable pre-natal inscription onto the god character’s naughty-or-nice list… or the more coolly-satisfying Buddhist karmic wheel… there’s not a lot of ultimate difference. There is no redemption and, more important, there need not be.

  • ‘Days ago I wrote a long comment to tvt that disappeared’

    this is why comments should be copied before u try to send them, because they have been known not to appear sometimes. if u copy it first, u won’t have lost it, as u can try submitting it again, and again, if need be.

    ‘Calvin asserted that each newborn baby was a “seething sack of sin”, and what ecologist can countermand that, who wants to preserve ecological diversity?’

    i prefer to not be so judgemental. we’re flawed, limited, mortal beings, but none of us has made the choice to be so. if anyone indeed possessed free will, wouldn’t that individual choose to be perfect, in a perfect world without suffering, conflict, death or destruction?

  • @tvt, I’ve certainly done as you suggest in the past but I am not perfect. Oh well.

    It’s not a matter of what you *prefer*. I’m not comparing your personal ideas to to Mr. Calvin’s.. no one is.

    I’m merely pointing out that a major US/Anglo sect, far more influential in the US than Catholicism, has a drastically punitive view of human existence: maintaining (contrary to the Roman church’s ideas) that mankind is completely irredeemable. My Rapture-Ready™® sister’s idea of free will is that you are free only to choose what the bible god wants; there is no freedom to choose otherwise. This makes her happy and she sees this as coherent and “free” (!!).

  • It seems quite a stretch to think that free will could enable an individual
    to choose to be ‘perfect’,let alone endow the ability to create a world
    ‘without suffering,conflict, death or destruction’

    All those who believe in telekinesis,raise my hand.

  • If humans suck in general, if all humans suck, then everybody on NBL sucks as well, right? 🙂

  • Preposterous propaganda, outright lies, & blatant historical distortion from the highest academic levels & prestigious media.

    NYTimes, op-ed, Sept. 12, 2015

    “THE NEXT GENOCIDE”- Timothy Synder

    New Haven — “BEFORE he fired the shot, the Einsatzgruppe commander lifted the Jewish child in the air and said, ‘You must die so that we can live.’ As the killing proceeded, other Germans rationalized the murder of Jewish children in the same way: them or us.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/13/opinion/sunday/the-next-genocide.html

    Timothy Synder is a full professor of “history” specializing in Modern Eastern Europe & Holocaust studies at Yale

    http://history.yale.edu/people/timothy-snyder

    IS PROFESSOR SYNDER’S “LEAD” TRUE?

    DID SUCH PROFESSED HORRIFIC EVENTS “REALLY” OCCUR?

    DID MONSTROUS EVIL GERMAN SOLDIERS SHOOT LITTLE JEWISH CHILDREN?

    IS YALE “HISTORIAN” SYNDER WRITING IMAGINATIVE LITERATURE & ZIONIST PROPAGANDA?

  • I’ve posted a new guest essay. It’s here.

  • @Gerald Spezio

    I am from Germany, I was born in Germany and I tell you:

    The german nazis killed 6 million jews. YOU are writing propaganda AGAINST all jews. Now, do YOU want to teach ME GERMAN history ?! You are spreading nazi propaganda, dear Gerald 🙂 Btw, nowadays those sick german nazis say what happened to the jews will happen to all refugees that flee to Germany, no matter where they come from^^

    Have you ever read “Mein Kampf” writen by Adolf Hitler? Well, there you can read for yourself what Hitler planned for the jews and he did it. Have you ever seen original film material from the 3. Reich, original speeches from Goebels, Göring or else?! I did^^ Read this:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Carta_G%C3%B6ring.JPG


    Todesfuge

    Schwarze Milch der Frühe wir trinken sie abends
    wir trinken sie mittags und morgens wir trinken sie nachts
    wir trinken und trinken
    wir schaufeln ein Grab in den Lüften da liegt man nicht eng
    Ein Mann wohnt im Haus der spielt mit den Schlangen der schreibt
    der schreibt wenn es dunkelt nach Deutschland
    dein goldenes Haar Margarete

    er schreibt es und tritt vor das Haus und es blitzen die Sterne
    er pfeift seine Rüden herbei
    er pfeift seine Juden hervor läßt schaufeln ein Grab in der Erde
    er befiehlt uns spielt auf nun zum Tanz

    Schwarze Milch der Frühe wir trinken dich nachts
    wir trinken dich morgens und mittags wir trinken dich abends
    wir trinken und trinken
    Ein Mann wohnt im Haus der spielt mit den Schlangen der schreibt
    der schreibt wenn es dunkelt nach Deutschland
    dein goldenes Haar Margarete
    Dein aschenes Haar Sulamith

    wir schaufeln ein Grab in den Lüften da liegt man nicht eng

    Er ruft stecht tiefer ins Erdreich ihr einen ihr andern singet und spielt
    er greift nach dem Eisen im Gurt er schwingts seine Augen sind blau
    stecht tiefer die Spaten ihr einen ihr anderen spielt weiter zum Tanz auf

    Schwarze Milch der Frühe wir trinken dich nachts
    wir trinken dich mittags und morgens wir trinken dich abends
    wir trinken und trinken
    ein Mann wohnt im Haus dein goldenes Haar Margarete
    dein aschenes Haar Sulamith er spielt mit den Schlangen

    Er ruft spielt süßer den Tod der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland
    er ruft streicht dunkler die Geigen dann steigt ihr als Rauch in die Luft
    dann habt ihr ein Grab in den Wolken da liegt man nicht eng

    Schwarze Milch der Frühe wir trinken dich nachts
    wir trinken dich mittags der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland
    wir trinken dich abends und morgens wir trinken und trinken
    der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland sein Auge ist blau
    er trifft dich mit bleierner Kugel er trifft dich genau
    ein Mann wohnt im Haus dein goldenes Haar Margarete
    er hetzt seine Rüden auf uns er schenkt uns ein Grab in der Luft
    er spielt mit den Schlangen und träumet der Tod ist ein Meister aus
    Deutschland

    dein goldenes Haar Margarete
    dein aschenes Haar Sulamith

    – Paul Celan

  • Todesfuge

    Schwarze Milch der Frühe wir trinken sie abends
    wir trinken sie mittags und morgens wir trinken sie nachts
    wir trinken und trinken
    wir schaufeln ein Grab in den Lüften da liegt man nicht eng
    Ein Mann wohnt im Haus der spielt mit den Schlangen der schreibt
    der schreibt wenn es dunkelt nach Deutschland
    dein goldenes Haar Margarete

    er schreibt es und tritt vor das Haus und es blitzen die Sterne
    er pfeift seine Rüden herbei
    er pfeift seine Juden hervor läßt schaufeln ein Grab in der Erde
    er befiehlt uns spielt auf nun zum Tanz

    Schwarze Milch der Frühe wir trinken dich nachts
    wir trinken dich morgens und mittags wir trinken dich abends
    wir trinken und trinken
    Ein Mann wohnt im Haus der spielt mit den Schlangen der schreibt
    der schreibt wenn es dunkelt nach Deutschland
    dein goldenes Haar Margarete
    Dein aschenes Haar Sulamith

    wir schaufeln ein Grab in den Lüften da liegt man nicht eng

    Er ruft stecht tiefer ins Erdreich ihr einen ihr andern singet und spielt
    er greift nach dem Eisen im Gurt er schwingts seine Augen sind blau
    stecht tiefer die Spaten ihr einen ihr anderen spielt weiter zum Tanz auf

    Schwarze Milch der Frühe wir trinken dich nachts
    wir trinken dich mittags und morgens wir trinken dich abends
    wir trinken und trinken
    ein Mann wohnt im Haus dein goldenes Haar Margarete
    dein aschenes Haar Sulamith er spielt mit den Schlangen

    Er ruft spielt süßer den Tod der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland
    er ruft streicht dunkler die Geigen dann steigt ihr als Rauch in die Luft
    dann habt ihr ein Grab in den Wolken da liegt man nicht eng

    Schwarze Milch der Frühe wir trinken dich nachts
    wir trinken dich mittags der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland
    wir trinken dich abends und morgens wir trinken und trinken
    der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland sein Auge ist blau
    er trifft dich mit bleierner Kugel er trifft dich genau
    ein Mann wohnt im Haus dein goldenes Haar Margarete
    er hetzt seine Rüden auf uns er schenkt uns ein Grab in der Luft
    er spielt mit den Schlangen und träumet der Tod ist ein Meister aus
    Deutschland

    dein goldenes Haar Margarete
    dein aschenes Haar Sulamith

    – Paul Celan

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Carta_G%C3%B6ring.JPG

  • I just came back to NBL, one of my favorite informative websites on the state of our planet.

    How did this important and precious website become a platform for offensive Holocaust deniers, history revisionists and anti semites…?

    I really count on the scientific info and intelligent dialogue I normally find here. Did I miss something?

    But now I am wondering what is going on? I am flabbergasted at this turn of event.

  • Freedom of speech is of high value- but holocaust denial, nazi propaganda is of no value because it strives to destroy freedom of speech. Holocaust denial is nazi propaganda. There should be no freedom of speech for those who want to destroy freedom of speech.

  • Samantha- I agree. Unfortunately, in my experience, with an open forum this is what you tend to get. I’m in favor of the open forum, however, and after a few times spatting with people on here, I’ve come to realize that ignoring them is the best course of action. Not always easy when you see some of the bigoted, ignorant comments, and I don’t always follow my own advice when I get really upset, but the site is still worthwhile if you skip over those comments and move on.

  • “Freedom of speech” is exclusively a civil right, it is protection from governmental reprisals toward an individual.

    Freedom of speech is where we don’t call the police and you get arrested and all your possessions confiscated for what you say or write. If the police aren’t involved, comments made don’t fall into the “free speech” category.

    Freedom to discuss or state what you choose in social circles is not about “free speech.” And when people get tired of you and want you to leave, when they reject you, fire you from your job, divorce you or otherwise leave the romantic relationship for things you say, that’s not about “free speech,” either.

  • What Curious said.

    Too many Oil-Qaeda operatives here.

  • @oldgrowthforest

    “Freedom of speech” is exclusively a civil right, it is protection from governmental reprisals toward an individual.

    Exactly. Spreading of nazi propaganda is NOT about freedom of speech. In nazi Germany there was no freedom of speech and the jews who got killed by the nazis had no freedom of speech and no right to defend themselves.

    Do you want to defend any right to spread holocaust denial, nazi propaganda ?

  • Whoever denies the nazi killing of 6 million jews actually kills those jews a second time. Be careful about your Karma/Vipaka, because Karma (the Law of Cause and Effect) never fails.

  • @curious, of course I do not want to defend anyone’s right to be a lying, psychopathic asshole. And when I reject them for being a lying, psychopathic asshole, it’s not about their freedom of speech.

    The government doesn’t have anything to do with and neither does “freedom of speech,” which is part of the First Amendment to the Constitution. This doesn’t have anything to do with the Constitution or the First Amendment.

    We all need to monitor our own karma, because we aren’t really qualified to do anything else.

  • correction: The government doesn’t have anything to do with it,” and when you pull the “free speech” card, you, yourself, are injecting government into it.

    Not one person on this blog, at the party, on the job, in the marriage, partnership, friendship, etc., can stand on “freedom of speech” as a license to say what they want, unless we are threatening to call the police.

    Otherwise, it’s just ordinary rejection and expulsion from the social circle. It’s not a violation of anyone’s *civil rights.*

  • I did not “pull the card” of free speech, I just thought that maybe Guy McPherson lets Sperzio spread holocaust denial because Guy McPherson sees the freedom of speech as a high value and therefore I said what I had to say about the freedom of speech.

    What about the denial of climate change? Do you think there is any right to spread lies, any right to deny climate change because of free speech? Is there any right to deny that the planet is being killed by liars, cheaters, deniers because of free speech? Is there any right to twist history for sick purposes like they did in “1984”?

  • Twisting history, spreading lies, denying holocaust, denying climate change, denying social injustice, denying responsibility, denying, denying, denying. Denial is sick. Denial brought the planet to where it is right now.

    Denial has no future.