The End of the Planetary Party for Homo sapiens

Humanism is a doctrine of salvation — the belief that humankind can take charge of its own destiny. Among Greens, this has become the ideal of humanity becoming the wise steward of the planet’s resources. But for anyone whose hopes are not centred on their own species the notion that human action can save themselves or the planet must be absurd. They know the upshot is not in human hands. They act as they do not out of the belief that they can succeed, but from an ancient instinct.

For much of their history and all of prehistory, humans did not see themselves as being any different from the other animals among which they lived. Hunter-gatherers saw their prey as equals, if not superiors, and animals were worshipped as divinities in many traditional cultures. They humanist sense of a gulf between ourselves and other animals is an aberration. It is the animist feeling of belonging with the rest of nature that is normal. Feeble as it may be today, the feeling of sharing a common destiny with other living things is embedded in the human psyche. Those who struggle to conserve what is left of the environment are moved by the love of living things, biophilia, the frail bond of feeling that ties humankind to the Earth.

The mass of mankind is ruled not by its intermittent moral sensations, still less by self-interest, but by the needs of the moment. It seems fated to wreck the balance of life on Earth — and thereby to be the agent of its own destruction. What could be more hopeless than placing the Earth in the charge of this exceptionally destructive species? It is not of becoming planet’s wise stewards that Earth-lovers dream, but of a time when humans have ceased to matter.

The preceding paragraphs are extracted from the opening chapter of John Gray’s 2002 book, Straw Dogs: Thoughts on Humans and Other Animals. In this space, I last quoted from Gray’s book in an essay posted in September 2007.

Consistent with my recent approach, I’m pasting below an essay from long ago. In this case, I posted the essay in this space on 14 December 2007. The title is identical to the one posted here today. This essay, and the date it was posted, indicate how long I’ve been writing about near-term human extinction. Although I reached this conclusion in 2002, I dared not discuss the idea for more than five years. The essay is followed by an embedded video clip created by Ivey Cone of Fuki Cafe.

Ross Gelbspan finally figured it out: we’ve reached the tipping point with respect to global climate change. Welcome to the party, Ross. You’re late, but you’re still way ahead of the lamestream media and the American public.

British ecologist James Lovelock scooped you on this story about a decade ago. And NASA scientist James Hansen just keeps saying we have a decade left to solve the our fossil-fuel addiction and the attendant emissions tragedy. He’s been saying it for two decades, though, which makes me wonder if he’s ready to admit we’ve passed the point of no return.

Tipping point? Point of no return? What does those terms mean, anyway?

In my opinion, which echoes Lovelock’s, habitat for our species will be gone by century’s end. I strongly suspect this outlook, like most prior predictions associated with global climate change, is hopelessly optimistic. It would not surprise me if our exit from the planetary stage were complete within three decades. Will we make it to 2100? I’d give us about a zero percent chance.

There is a very human face to this tragedy. Actually, there are about 6.5 billion human faces. Let’s look at one of them.

A dear friend is about eight months away from giving birth. Assuming her child is born on its doctor-determined “due date” of 10 August 2008, it will face a truly Hobbesian existence. S/he will need to survive the terrifying years of rapidly declining energy supplies and the consequent chaos. Perhaps we’ll power down with the tranquility of Buddhist monks. History, however, suggests otherwise. If s/he survives the peak-oil bottleneck, s/he will need some amazing survival skills early in life. Then s/he’d better move north — think way north — within a couple decades. On foot or horseback.

And you thought you were having a bad day?

If s/he manages to eke out an existence for the life expectancy we consider “normal,” s/he’ll be among the last humans on Earth.

Some people have suggested a few humans are bound to survive. But I don’t think we’re quite as special as cockroaches.

Most of the respondents to Gelbspan’s article fall into one of two categories. They either deny we’ve passed the global-warming tipping point, or they deny our inability to solve the problem. Many respondents in both camps chastise Gelbspan for taking away our collective hope, which they believe will cause people to become hedonists.

Hedonists? Americans? Hard to imagine, isn’t it?

Since Oil War II, we’ve been partying like the End Times are here. The fiesta couldn’t get much wilder for the biggest consumers in planetary history. We view the seven deadly sins as personal challenges to be conquered. Daily, preferably. Orgy is just another word for daily life in the Empire.

When will the adults show up? What will it take to end the party?

Increasingly desperate pleas of our dire situation aren’t helping. Guilt stopped working a couple of Popes ago. And we can’t seem to spend our way to a solution.

Seems we’ll have to run out of alcohol before we’ll admit we’re alcoholics. The day’s coming.

Soon.

I’ll be interviewed by Doug Bennett for Unspun radio on Saturday, 3 October 2015. The show will air for an hour, starting at noon Eastern here. It’s a call-in show, so please ask questions when you connect with us at 530.337.1885.

Comments 158

  • Came late to this CC Party (that would be the Party to try and actually do something about it). However, it has been long that I knew it was a problem- although it was always a back burner problem. It was only when I rediscovered Hansen, Mann et al that I realized they’d been warning us for a couple of three decades as you say and that our species continues to amuse itself to death to coin a Roger Waters’ lyric. From there I discovered your goodself and Paul Beckwith via you. Your presentations make a lot of sense regarding the end of times. You seem to have made peace with that fact, wish I could. My head is very nearly there with you but my heart is not because like that of your dear friend I too had a child in 2008 and am frantic to try all that I might to effect some change in my corner of the World and perhaps beyond for his sake. I keep returning to watch the latest Macpherson presentation though, perhaps because of the carcrashrubbernecking syndrome of it all or perhaps that you’ve discovered some new truth that says we are able to stop this speeding train going of the cliff. I hope you are wrong and if life expectancy increases to 200, we’ll both have about 40 or 50 years left to meetup at which point I’ll invite you for a Canadian Soylent Green beverage. But if you are right it won’t matter cause at the end of the day we just aint that special anyways; a clever species as you say, but this old earth (which I’m told is only 6000 yrs old by my religious friends) has seen it all come and go. Just more of the same but different colours n’est pas? Look forward to rubberneckin’ your next presentation cheers

  • Just watched Ivey Cone’s twilight zone video, Night Shinning Dragons Breath! Great Ivey Thx! Noctilucent, the polar cloud, night clouds, much brighter with ragged edges, made of ice crystals of water from melting methane, the highest clouds in our atmosphere. I called them wiffy but now know the time is iffy. I’m in Nevada and there here now today, We see them back home in N. Calif. about everyday.
    Thank you Prof. your past essay shows just how far out your are and ahead to time you were, and the show this week was great, it answered the question of F=it is the last step to date! I was just hoping some, that Love it and leave it was all that’s what’s right

  • The continuation of ‘the party’ is dependent on:

    the ability of central banks to keep pumping phony money into the system and keep expanding debt bubbles

    the ability of those seeking credit to obtain it and keep up the payments

    the ability of those extracting fossil fuels to do so at a profit

    the ability of those who trawl to oceans to fill nets with saleable catches

    the ability to pump water from ancient aquifers and supply it to crop-growing locations

    the ability of industrial agriculture to generate and distribute food

    the ability of pension funds to obtain yield and maintain payments to beneficiaries

    the ability of bureaucrats to falsify data and generate phony economic indicators

    the ability of politicians to lie convincingly to the masses and keep them trapped in the phony paradigm

    and other similar factors.

    The system had a far greater capacity to keep lumbering on (and keep destroying everything that matters) than any of us thought possible a decade ago.

    That said, it is abundantly clear ‘the party’ cannot be maintained for another decade.

    We in NZ have entered the ‘interesting’ month, a little before the rest of the world. Waiting for the show to commence.

    http://ourfiniteworld.com/2015/09/29/low-oil-prices-why-worry/

  • “The sea is falling, the sea is falling.” (Proof of Concept – 3)

  • A careful reading of the ‘Straw Dogs’ quote should reveal the fault in John
    Gray’s reasoning. The second paragraph discusses the animist view of hunter-gatherers,stating that ‘the animist feeling of belonging with the rest of nature that is normal’, contrasting this with other views, yet then
    concludes that it is hopeless because we are such an exceptionally destructive species.
    our way of regarding nature changed when we stopped living intimately within it,as hunter-gatherers did ( and still do in a few instances).
    With the development of agriculture,villages and cities,we became increasingly disconnected,and nature became regarded as a cornucopia of resources to be exploited. Changing from an animist view to a monotheistic view has reinforced this disconnection from the natural world.
    If ones world view is that there is an omnipotent celestial being whose primary concern is the wellbeing of our species,then it is logically consistent to be unconcerned about the destruction of the natural world,
    because if things get ‘too bad’, that omnipotent being will intervene.
    There are many examples of hunter-gatherers who lived within the natural world for tens of thousands of years and did not leave a wasteland behind,as industrial civilisation does.

  • @david higham,

    If there were 5 million humans on the planet today, with access to no energy beyond firewood and no technology beyond stone tools, they too could live tens of thousands of years without doing significant damage to their surroundings. It’s the energy surplus that produces the civilization, and underpins the damage.

    No energy surplus -> no civilization & no environmental damage.
    Energy surplus -> civilization & environmental damage.

    Simplistic? Or just simple?

  • Two little jewels on GPB Radio tonite: 1) we have been taken over by many, many Frankensteins (I guess RE qualifies + CERN) . One is cloning dogs. What the hell! We have more dogs than we know what to do with as witnessed by the thousands of shelters that euthanize every single damn day. 2) Military leaders from Russia and the Home of the brave (“I wish it were true”), are f***king meeting. About what u may ask? They are parceling up the world, AGAIN. (POTSDAM) Told u so! That is the only way they will survive the longest as a species.

  • Just wait until fusion energy comes, solves climate change and allows limitless expansion of resource use, Star Trek style interstellar travel before 2300 and colonization of other solar systems.

  • The overwhelming tragedy of monotheism ,and diametrically opposed to
    animism, is the teaching that this Earth is a stepping stone to a better world,and is of secondary importance. Why would one be greatly concerned
    about the destruction of the natural world and the ballooning of the human population,if humans and their life in heaven are the primary concern?
    Witness Reagan’s secretary for the interior,who declared open slather on public lands,and declared that the environment doesn’t matter,because
    the second coming was at hand,or Senator Inhofe,who declared that Climate disruption could not be occurring,because the bible said that there would not be another flood.

    Paul,
    Energy.Yes. That treasure trove of fossil fuels. No doubt you and most here know that William Catton (‘Overshoot’) stated that we are a civilisation of detritovores, meaning that our bubble civilisation is built on the detritus of long dead organisms and the energy that they captured from ancient sunlight.
    Energy is the main underlying factor,but worldviews matter as well,I think.

  • I remember hearing Hansen, back then, after reading Lovelock and Carson years before, and I remember reading about ‘terminator’ seeds somewhere around ’98: I knew then we were done. I remember, in the mid-80’s, flying over clear-cut forests in the West, ‘mountain-top removals’ back East, and seeing thousands of irrigation circles across the buffalo run, knowing they were draining the Ogallalah… You could see it all over but no one I knew, except a few NA friends, dared speak of it… even today, most people I know think I am an extremist enviro-lunatic… No one wants to give up their RAM duallies, or cheap crap at Wal-Mart, or Monday night Football.. even as they move to the ‘country’ and load up on guns, ammo and freeze dried MRE’s… And then I read about Guy… and realized that if I was a lunatic, at least I was in good company 🙂

  • @ Ray Batman ….Space Opera Won’t Fly
    http://www.lightandmatter.com/article/spaceopera.html

  • There are some grammatical and spelling errors in my comments. I have a bad habit of writing and then posting,and sometimes forget to check before posting. The first comment above should be ‘nature came to be regarded’,rather than’nature became regarded’.nevermind.

  • While this still expresses the opinion that we have a shot at saving ourselves (hard to find articles that don’t… for now), at least it has a decent critique of the UN SDG:

    http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/33028-sustainable-development-goals-could-learn-from-indigenous-peoples

  • Bud,

    Where to begin?
    Let’s go old school and start at the beginning.

    You posted 9/23 12:24 PM to ogf & others asking questions.
    I posted to you 9/23 1:31 PM asking for clarification of your terms.
    You posted 9/25 4:26 PM clarifying your terms.
    I posted 9/26 9:02 PM.
    You posted 9/30 at 10:17 AM.

    Your most recent post includes the following, referring to my 9/26 post: “In your first paragraph you asked why people think in those terms. I wondered the same thing.”

    Well, Bud, it’s not surprising that you notice a ‘similarity’ there.

    What is surprising is that you apparently did not pick up on the fact that what you refer to as my first paragraph was taken directly from your 9/25 4:26 PM post.
    I italicized it to make it as clear as possible what my unitalicized comments were referring to.
    I did the same thing further down in my post with a shorter section of text taken from your 9/25 post.
    In one eye and out the other?

    I guess your reading comprehension/recognition error somehow made you think we were somehow in synch or simpatico. There may be some areas of this discussion in which we are co-resident (We both cringe at the invocation of quantum effects in most situations, and neither of us is going to waste our time standing in line trying to get a license for our unicorn.) But the fact that you either chose to or forgot to respond to my thoughts about UFOs and ESP/telepathy makes me think that you’re ducking my questions/assertions or else just forgetting them…neither basis gets you to the square titled “Worthwhile and Reliable Correspondent”.

    If you & Randi & Shermer want to believe y’all’ve got it all debunked and categorized, go right ahead without me.

    P.S. Did you actually *read* Warped Passages?

    We don’t have a long long time…listen anyway.

  • And then there was the time when Bud Nye plagiarized an entire post by Paul Chefurka and would have gotten away with it had Paul not called him on it.
    ……

    Anyway….
    I just saw the film “Merchants of Doubt”.
    It had an interesting list of tactics that have been used since the tobacco industry fought to deny the health risks of its products. And they are still being used today – by lobbyists and by trolls in climate change denial.

    “A General Manual of Denialism”

    •attack the messenger
    •cherry-pick the data
    •minimize the problem
    •call for more evidence
    •hire industry friendly scientists
    •create front groups
    •question the personal motives and integrity of the scientists
    •cite nonexperts with minority opinions as authorities
    •manufacture doubt
    •shift the blame
    •delay regulations
    •question the science
    •divert attention
    •frame the issue as a threat to personal freedom
    •claim that acceptance would repudiate a key philosophy, religious belief, or practice of a group.

    Sound familiar?

  • The link below is mainly a commentary on Australian politics,so the text probably won’t be of interest to most here,but she often posts some good cartoons.http://loonpond.blogspot.com.au/

  • “A General Manual of Denialism”

    •attack the messenger
    •cherry-pick the data
    •minimize the problem
    •call for more evidence
    •hire industry friendly scientists
    •create front groups
    •question the personal motives and integrity of the scientists
    •cite nonexperts with minority opinions as authorities
    •manufacture doubt
    •shift the blame
    •delay regulations
    •question the science
    •divert attention
    •frame the issue as a threat to personal freedom
    •claim that acceptance would repudiate a key philosophy, religious belief, or practice of a group.

    Sound familiar?
    Why yes, it is all too familiar.

  • Wren said…

    And then there was the time when Bud Nye plagiarized an entire post by Paul Chefurka and would have gotten away with it had Paul not called him on it.

    If so, maybe there’s some connection to his not recognizing his own words in my post (even though they were italicized).

    Whitney? Tracy? Her left hand does more bends than a dozen careless scuba rookies .

  • Homo sapiens will party on until it no longer can, to the bitter end.Same with BAU will keep going until…it can’t!

    My two cents of intellectual enlightenment! Enjoy ’till the end, we are all going to end sometime anyway.

  • LWA,

    Regarding your long September 30th, 2015 at 3:45 pm comment, you do love the personal attack game, don’t you? Why don’t you go to work using those wonderful skills against Guy? A very large contingent out there does love to attack him personally, just as you obviously take great pleasure in personally attacking Randi and me personally. Think about it: You could double your fun.

    I repeat: Based on much compelling evidence, in my judgment and opinion all of the alleged phenomena I referred to fall under the same heading: “nonsense”—-just like chemtrails. The evidence in support of them remains highly controversial and weak at best. The evidence against them strong in comparison—-just as against chemtrails. That evidence goes far beyond James Randi, just as the evidence that Guy presents goes far beyond him. Meanwhile, I see nothing in your personal attacks on Randi and me about that evidence as related to these alleged phenomena. I see only irrelevant distractions from that evidence and reasoning based on it. (I do wonder whether perhaps you are an attorney—-a person with great ARGUMENTATION skills, which is all that really matters in a court of law, NOT anything related to justice.) Nice distracting change of subject—and probably quite compelling to the True Believer audience that you appear to wish to appeal to. Perhaps you and some others here see your reasoning about these alleged phenomena in some way convincing and “strong”. It strikes me as incredibly weak, irrelevant, highly immature, and not in the least bit convincing. If you wish to believe that ghosts, angels, and fairies exist, that dowsing works reliably in a way greater than chance would predict, that ESP occurs greater than chance would predict, that people can bend spoons using their “psychic energy”, that psychic surgery supposedly works effectively as a way to cure people of many diseases (beyond the placebo effect), that prayer helps people other than those doing the praying, and so on, and on, and on, by all means have at it! Believe whatever you wish in your final days. Sorry. You have not shown me any evidence or reasoning that removes these alleged phenomena from the “nonsense” category for me.

    When will you begin your ad hominem attacks on Michael Shermer and some of the others at The Skeptic Society? Why stop with James Randi?

  • Paul Chefurka Says:

    If there were 5 million humans on the planet today, with access to no energy beyond firewood and no technology beyond stone tools, they too could live tens of thousands of years without doing significant damage to their surroundings. It’s the energy surplus that produces the civilization, and underpins the damage.

    No energy surplus -> no civilization & no environmental damage.
    Energy surplus -> civilization & environmental damage.

    Simplistic? Or just simple?

    ——–

    A little simplistic. As david higham points out, worldviews do matter. If we listened to the creation around us, we’d not have used that surplus energy that we knew was available to us. Indigenous peoples use a very small fraction (like less than 1%) of the energy flow that have access to.

    The Native Americans have known of Uranium for a long time. They also knew that it “likes” being buried and doesn’t like being dug out. This they know by listening to it. It spoke to them as it speaks to us even now… by affecting our health. They listened (and still do). We don’t. That ought to be simple.

    Civilization needs surplus energy but surplus energy doesn’t necessarily produce civilization.

    Stories matter. A lot!

    How about that for a story? 🙂

  • As the great Hugo Chavez said (or there about): “I smell sulphur in the room.” (referring to Lord Jesus George W. Bush.)

    Seems some here aren’t what they are willing to admit. Let it all hang out so we can get to know yee.

    Do not be a hypocrite.

    I’m a big skeptic (I think most of us are.) but so many issues surrounding the topic are completely unsolvable and a big waste of time unless u can unequivocally catch someone in the act of distortion, like Benny Hinn and Popovich, I think his name was?

    I must say, I have never heard of any “Faith Healer” growing a limb, for instance. Now, that wud be a miracle.

  • Dorothy: welcome aboard!

    Satish: i think you’re on to something. Good points.

    https://arctic-news.blogspot.ca/

    Thursday, October 1, 2015
    Cyclones continue to hit Northern Hemisphere

    As the 2015 El Niño gets stronger, the Northern Hemisphere continues to get hit by strong winds and cyclones. The image below shows strong winds over the Arctic Ocean, as hurricane Joaquin approaches the coast of North America.

    Meanwhile, sea surface temperatures off the North American coast, as well as in the Arctic Ocean, are very high

    [further down]

    The water of the Arctic Ocean is very warm, not only at the surface, but even more so underneath the surface. The danger is that strong winds will mix warm water all the way down to the seafloor, where it could destabilize sediments that can contain huge amounts of methane in the form of hydrates and free gas.

    [Life out of balance: Koyaanisqatsi]

  • Even if every nation meets its pledge to fight climate change, we’re still fried

    http://www.desdemonadespair.net/2015/09/even-if-every-nation-meets-its-pledge.html

    [begins]

    (Motherboard) – If every nation that has so far pledged to cut down on its carbon emissions made good on its promises, the global average temperature would still rise 3.5˚ Celsius by the end of the century. According to a new study from MIT Sloan and Climate Interactive, even with the hard-won commitments from nations around the world, we’re still on track for “catastrophic” levels of planetary heating. If, that is, the governmental targets aren’t stepped up, or paired with other aggressive efforts.

    In advance of the upcoming climate talks in Paris this year, which many consider the world’s best shot at cementing an agreement to limit global warming, nations have begun submitting what are known in UN-speak as Intended Nationally Determined Contributions (INDCs).

    These are basically declarations of intent for how a given country aims to reduce or mitigate its carbon emissions—Norway, for instance, is pledging to reduce its carbon emissions by 40 percent by 2030. The US is aiming for a 28 percent CO2 reduction by 2025. China, meanwhile, again made waves when it announced it would match the US’s fuel efficiency standards and launch a new cap-and-trade system for reducing pollution as part of its plan.

    It should speak to the scope of the climate problem that even with all those reduction commitments on the books, we’re headed for what scientists say are civilization-threatening levels of warming. To reach that conclusion, MIT rounded up all such pledges that are on the books, and analyzed the total impact they’d have on temperature rise.

  • Guy’s been right all along – one of the handful of people willing to speak the truth in an insane human civilization.

    Thanks again Guy for your bravery, insight and integrity. You continue to inspire (me) because you don’t fold under internal or external pressure to do so.

  • The thin line between science and bullshit is huge.
    Science is coming up with an idea that is verifiable.
    Bullshit is coming up with an idea that is unverifiable.

    Evidence shows hunter-gatherers used to drive whole herds over a cliff, killing far more than required.

    The Gobleki stones show hunter-gatherers ritualistically taunting animals before killing them.

    Neanderthals were very likely killed off by us.

    But, speaking of early warnings, I awoke to the danger in my womb, remembering it from my past life from 10,000 years earlier.

    So the animistic tribe is out for Bud Nye’s blood. Can I blow the conch? It’s like watching a comment based dog fight.

    I’ve been a pacifist all my life, yet my son loves to fight, fuck and drink. The only difference between us and the hunter-gathers is the drinking.

  • One can always tell who are the bright ones here. They can count past two.

  • Tom, as always thanks for the links. Did you catch this on Motherboard:
    http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-climate-change-stoics?trk_source=recommended

  • david higham,

    I enjoy reading your very good comments and never mind about grammatical errors etc. Everybody here should be able to tell from your style how eloquent and informed you are, and that it could only be an oversight, should a mistake appear. Therefore, no worries!

    And Satish, your comments too:)I agree, stories matter a great deal.

  • Sabine, second your comment to David Higham.

    OT:
    Been trying to find the words to describe why Naomi Klein’s book/movie title has irritated me so much . . .
    Henry Barnes of The Guardian who recently reviewed the film nails it when he says:
    “the title is “hyperbolic” and “flames its antecedents”
    Yes! That’s it.
    Among other things.
    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/sep/17/this-changes-everything-review-naomi-kleins-documentary-on-climate-change-doesnt

    And if I hear/read Naomi Klein say one more time, “it’s not about polar bears, it’s about us” one more time I do need to cut off all forms of access to media.

  • Cavalierly advocating that stories matter?

    If “stories” are so critically important, would the “theorists of stories as wisdom” please tell us WHAT stories are so critically important?

    How do we tell propaganda & literary fluff, from truth?

    Establishment hack, David Korten, sold his bullshit books by smiling & selling the functionalist hype that we “live by stories.”

    But Korten neglected to tell us which stories were worth living by.

    Climate change deniers have their story, & doomers have their story.

    Differentiating between these conflicting “stories” is critical.

    Exxon, Shell, Koch Bros, Fox News, CBS news, Neocon regime change, Monsanto … have their orchestrated “stories.”

    Many preposterous stories are purposely crafted by trained “PROFESSIONALS” to distort our brains; Tonkin Gulf, dirty Commies, weapons of mass destruction, clash of civilizations, Assad must go, we’re spreading democracy, Jesus walked water, Shamnan Don Juan can really fly, …

    All stories are equally worth listening to?

    Many asinine postmodernists are still openly selling; “Truth – there isn’t any!”

    Much of this blog has become teenage relativistic nonsense.

  • Satish,

    Thanks for your post about stories. It takes bravery to say such things on NBL.

    Lidia,

    Thanks for your thoughtful (and, IMO, decent) comments about Whitney Houston. That took bravery too.

  • Dear LWA,

    No point in replying to Bud’s long comments. He always knows better and everything he doesn’t like is an ad hom attack. This kind of thing has been going on for ages. It’s best to let him think he’s the most reasonable person on NBL.

    Your comments are much appreciated, I’m sure not only by me.
    (Now we’re ganging up! oh dear!)

  • @ Satish and david higham,

    Do/can stories “work” on their own if they’re not supported by the energy situation of the society?

    I mean, can the stories that work in a low-energy culture be transplanted into a high-energy culture and produce similar effects? How about going the other way – could the stories from our culture produce the same effects if they are introduced into a low-energy culture?

    I think that effective stories co-evolve with the energy situation in a culture. Transplanted stories either have limited appeal (e.g. the hippie back-to-the-land stories) or have very different effects than they had in their original settings – like we saw with cargo cults.

    I would argue that a big reason the whole off-grid ethos is gaining momentum is precisely because our energy situation is beginning to change. So in effect, energy shapes culture because the stories the culture is based on co-evolve with its forms of energy capture.

    But on this topic I’m very decidedly a materialist, a la Ian Morris and Marvin Harris.

  • Hi, Sabine. I agree, and I certainly appreciate LWA’s comments here.

    Dear LWA, now you know why I didn’t respond at all. There are no good choices in connection with some matters and some people. It’s best to just not go there.

  • “Polonius-like with doddering ramblings, but rank with clichéd sound-bites and sulking fury, Obama boasted at the UN like a cornered school-yard bully: “I lead the strongest military that the world has ever known, and I will never hesitate to protect my country and our allies, unilaterally and by force where necessary.” Against which boast, with almost biblical thunder, pounced Putin’s accusation, “Do you realize what you’ve done?”

    A stunning question, for, without ever mentioning the US, referring to it instead as the “sole center of dominance” after the end of the Cold War, Putin recalled its attention to the devastating consequences of its foreign policy decisions. “A power vacuum for extremism,” in his words, had opened like a sucking vortex in the Middle East and North Africa, which “led to the creation of zones of anarchy, immediately filled by extremists.” The Islamic State, he said, did not materialize from nothing.”

  • Paul C.

    “But on this topic I’m very decidedly a materialist, a la Ian Morris and Marvin Harris.”

    I like the notion that stories evolve alongside greater determinants. I’m not always sure which comes first; the stories or the determinants. As to Satish’s point about the native American stories and uranium: these are not stories often referred to by “materialists.” So it was daring to bring it up in a materialist context. Furthermore, those old stories are needed now more than ever, since they contrast so telling with the stories we now act on and believe to be true.

  • What a ghastly tear jerker “story” engineered by sophisticated peeyar yuppies at prestigious Hill & Knowlton.

    Stories have consequences – one million innocent Iraqis stone cold DEAD & Iraqi culture destroyed beyond recognition because of completely consciously fabricated false stories.

    The world is being run by variations of Merican used car salesmen selling false stories.

    Obama, Hilarious, Ted Cruz, Trumpo, Rubio, Netanyahu, Ashton Carter etc are great at telling bullshit stories.

    The Israelis have a story that the Palestinians want to kill them.

    The Palestinians have a story that the Israelis ARE killing them.

    Just stories?

    Yabut, what stories?

  • “Here’s the thing about the pope that is driving me nuts. He says we need to do something about global warming, but we all know that over population is the biggest problem. And, he is the guy that says people should have as many children as possible.”

    Hypocrisy starts with ostensibly accepting the ten commandments while surreptitiously rejecting the first.

    “A massive applied molecular evolution will most likely happen as collective human energy & developments insure their impact after extinction.”

    Must be working for a janitorial service contractor.

    2°C: William Nordhaus

    “Absent the message of NBL, nothing can be changed. Guy is pointing to a catastrophic death process, which nearly everyone else else fails to observe. But is it only a death process, or is it also one of birth?”

    Billions of galaxies in this universe alone allow much room for speculation. And then a mulitverse…

    “On a practical level, your body is not your slave, it’s your partner.”

    Your clothes.

    “Neuroscientists say that thoughts are the consequence and never the cause of material brain processes. The brain obeys the four interactions of physics, which are the rulers of the universe. Out thoughts are inevitable consequences of immediately preceding brain states and this causal chain leads all the way to the Big Bang.”

    “Thoughts” are a convenient way to group together the effects of electrochemical and molecular biological processes that result in observable behaviour.

    Beliefs are the building blocks of values, and like emotions, are associated with the reptilian brain. To affect a change in beliefs, one has to appeal through emotions, conveying the appeals in the medium of narratives, verbal or in actions. “Actions speak louder than words”.

    “Diarmuid Galvin Says:
    September 27th, 2015 at 8:09 am

    What is eminently practical is the effort to get a direct taste/touch/glimpse of the stark, naked, undeniable reality of ‘you’ – here -untouched, unchanging,unmoving ,everpresent . (or as Robin Datta puts it – to ‘grok’ this ). This contact with reality infallibly eradicates the fundamental unconscious terror and the entire context of fear which spoils life and within which the mind itself has evolved.
    This act of moving one’s attention onto the faint sensation of ‘youness’ requires no understanding , no analysis, no years of practice.
    The outcome is a natural human life -sane and self-reliant – free of all misery and suffering”

    If it were that easy, one Buddha would have made everyone into Buddhas. Millions of Buddhas traipsing arond! That is why there is the Vedic concept of preparedness: adhikaritva.

    “World renowned scientists, experts in their fields, are agreeing NTHE will occur if we don’t change now. How long we have left is still a debate among some.”

    Each plays each one’s own instrument solo. If they heard the orchestra they would SPITT (s**t profusely in their trousers).

    “Therefore humanity should strive to “the anarchy of abundance”, i.e. a society where products are produced in unlimited quantities, a society where everyone has so much property that no one has a reason to want even more.”

    Consciousness is in the realm of the unconstrained. No constraints are acceptable even when directed at a single body-mind complex. Hence the insatiability when the focus is not in ItSelf.

    Ray Batman sounds like a grown up Sith Master or whatever his name was.

    (I wonder if ‘GENERALS DOWN TO 2ND LT” are treated any better than the millions of enlisted men. DOH!)

    The Royal Indian Army was officered by the British, and manned by the natives. There were even separate hospitals.

    “Daniel Says:
    September 29th, 2015 at 3:06 pm
    I would have thought that after years of collectively contemplating the causation of NTE, it would become rather self-evident that there is no point in either arguing or debating the phenomena with anyone who refuses to accept it.”

    Hell of a problem changing the reptilian brain; a reptilian appeal to emotion might help: the ol’ chomp of the croc.

    “RE has continued to serve as a posterchild for why it’s utterly pointless to even try. The man is clearly being driven by survivalist vested interests that are completely contrary to the premise of NTE. Of course he—not unlike most everyone—is going to take issue with it, simply because their entire existence demands they do so. NTE strikes at our very core, where most people’s response is emotionally reflexive rather than intellectually deliberate.”

    Until the croc actually chomps, it doesn’t cut the mustard!

    RE’s message is the kind that can allow people to think all is well, and that it’s alright to go back to sleep; that there’s no serious threat, or that maybe it’s just the next generation’s problem.

    There is no serious threat in hospice. It’s done for. But plenty of palliation needed.

    “Civilization needs surplus energy but surplus energy doesn’t necessarily produce civilization.”

    Maximum power principle
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_power_principle

    The interview:
    http://kkrn.org/listen.m3u
    2015.10.03.1200ET Saturday

  • Some interesting comments on UFOs (infantryone) and psychedelics(babajingo among others) on recent threads that haven’t inspired too much commentary, so I’ll dive in. Be kind, rewind.

    There may be an intersection between these two topics. Terrence McKenna explored far more hallucinogenic worlds than most humans (whether you want to characterize those as inner electro-chemical- neurological mechanisms, or inter-dimensional sojourns to an alternate reality is a matter of personal perspective). He also reported at least one close encounter with a “nuts and bolts” UFO. You can find several of his lectures on that experience in places like the “Psychedelic Salon” podcast. His take, as I understand it, was that hallucinogens take you to places that are so strange and unfathomable that reality itself bends, dimensions overlap, entities emerge and human language is not fully able to describe the experience.

    Personally, I’ve had several profoundly meaningful experiences with hallucinogens. Some of these experiences were not at all pleasant and certainly did not lead to any inclination towards addiction. Quite the contrary. Following the most heavy of those experiences, I’ve been reluctant to take another such voyage. It’s been over 20 years now, but I don’t rule another experience out.

    I’ve also observed a small glowing red orb meander across my field of vision with what seemed to be a kind of self direction. It wasn’t a “flying saucer” but it also wasn’t something I’ve ever seen before or since. And before anyone lumps UFOs in the catagory of “nonsense” they should really do some in-depth study of the following cases:

    Phoenix Lights, 1952 UFO over Washington DC and “Flatwoods Monster” sighting, Travis Walton abduction, Betty & Barney Hill abduction, Jim Weiner and Allagash abductions, Rendlesham/Bentwater sightings with Sgt. John Burroughs and Col. Charles Halt among others, and Ruwa/Ariel School in Zimbabwe sighting.

    These are a few of the most well documented and unexplainable sightings, often with multiple witnesses, recorded over the years. Intriguingly, many of the witnesses in these sightings have reported receiving telepathic messages about the need to protect the ecology of the planet. See clips of the kids from the Ariel School for example. There was also a dramatic uptick in reported sightings following both the first atomic blast(s) and the discovery of LSD. Both in the same year. Portals opening?

    I don’t rule out the possibility that these sightings involved secret military operations including psy-op experiments that might have utilized various mindcontrol agents/substances, but some of these cases are quite beyond any kind of conventional explanation.

    So, why should any of this matter on a blog dedicated to NTE? Well, I suppose like everything else, nothing really does matter anymore, so whatever floats your boat. I’m absolutely in the “fuck it” stage and see no evidence that anything will prevent planetary death within the next few decades or less. To dwell on that is absolutely horrific.

    But UFOs and psychedelic experiences are “things” I keep in my back pocket as a kind of wishing stone. They are a mystery that the current reality we exist in cannot fully explain and thus, maybe the reality we currently inhabit isn’t all that is. Is that “hopium”? I don’t expect the biosphere to be saved by UFOs or psychedelics, but knowledge of them causes me to feel less anxious somehow. So why is that? It’s not just because reality is hard and unpleasant to face. I’m as realistic and grim about current circumstances as anyone I know.

    I think it has to do with the concept of mystery and of confronting something beyond current reality like the square from Flatland who entered 3D land and saw a sphere. It’s a climbing the ladder of consciousness sort of thing. Some of us just like to do that.

    Plus, for a relatively small minority of the modern global human population from 1945-1975 or so, and continuing on into the present, psychedelics served up the potential for radical transformation and the ripples of that communal experience still linger. Once again, the hippies were right.

    What if the entire human population were to be dosed (through those infamous “chemtrails”) with a empathy inducing hallucinogen? Too totalitarian? OK, what if all hallucinogens were legalized and dosing centers established in every community? It may be too late to prevent catastrophic global warming, but maybe we could at least begin to come to terms with our great dying/biosphere murder, and go in relative peace. Instead of a mad scramble for the final resources it could be about trying to nurture all beings, including ourselves through a true hospice experience. That’s my impossible, muddle-headed fantasy anyway and psychedelics seem to be one of the only ways to get there.

    MDMA (ecstacy) is currently being used in clinical trials to treat terminal illness and PTSD (within the VA no less!) with impressive results. Check out the current research being reported by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS). Isn’t post/pre traumatic stress and terminal illness our current condition?

    It seems obvious that the UFOs either aren’t interested or are unable to perform direct interventions, but hallucinogens could still provide a healing balm as we wink out. Then again, maybe I’m just a “crackpot” still flashing on a long gone psychedelic vision. Peace out.

  • .
    @Bud Nye
    My last post to you on this subject, I guess I should have just stuck with ‘meh.’

    I wasn’t trying to prove any specific phenomenon at all. I was merely disproving Randi’s methods. You appealed to the authority of his evidence, so I showed how his evidence is fallacious and contrived. His hypothesis sort of falls apart once the evidence it’s based upon can be shown to be false.

    If you wanted to study plant growth, you don’t put a dry seed on the bench top in the lab and then say, “Plants can’t grow.” You use soil and water and sunlight, and then you study the growth of the seed. It’s kind of a no brainer.

    .
    Also, of course I would never dispute Guy; he doesn’t concoct biased experiments in order to favor a specific outcome. He’s not silly that way … or dishonest, at least not from what I have determined.

    .
    @all those who flew a flag.
    Thanks for the shout out. I appreciate it.
    I know, I know, silence is golden.
    I’ll behave. 😉

  • Quote of the Day:

    Shep sez: “I’ve made about as much life progress as a box turtle,”

  • El Sea,

    Thanks for chiming in.

    UFOs
    I even forgot to mention what to me is the most compelling UFO evidence, which is about 2 hours of documentary footage called The Disclosure Project.
    You can buy the DVD on ebay for under $5 including shipping.
    Or if you don’t mind the folks in Utah knowing what you’re into and up to, you can watch a 1:55:51 clip of it on Youtube for nothing but the electrons (and the rare earth elements etc. in your device, I know…but you’ve already got the device on hand or you wouldn’t be reading this.).
    The folks testifying and being interviewed in those two hours are about as non-hippie, non-crystal gazing, non-unicorn-riding, etc a bunch of people as you’re likely to see in 2 hours of footage. Radar operators and the like, describing things like tracking something that their instruments indicated was travelling at a couple thousand MPH and changing direction quickly (little fuzzy on the exact speed, so 2K MPH might be off a bit).

    You said, “It seems obvious that the UFOs either aren’t interested or are unable to perform direct interventions, but hallucinogens could still provide a healing balm as we wink out.” I’m not sure what’s obvious anymore (I mean, sheesh, some of us haven’t gotten down on our knees and paid obeisance to James Randi yet…what’s this beach of doom comin’ to?). Maybe they only get one shot at intervening? (OK, y’all, we’re gonna violate the prime directive just this once, and if it doesn’t work, then too bad for the little life forms down there on that blue marble.)

    What is more chilling to me is the idea that we (global we) might be involved in terra-forming Terra for the next apex life form (predator or otherwise). Maybe that will be some sort of space-faring chlorophyll-based life form like Zhaan in Farscape…maybe they thrive on CO2 and generate O2 ? WTF knows?
    .
    .
    .
    McKenna et al

    Anyone out there have experience with Salvia Divinorum ?
    I bought some a few years back after watching a clip in which McKenna was very positive about it because it was legal and supposedly very similar to DMT or ayahuasca.
    Haven’t gotten around to using any of it, partly because I’ve subsequently read some accounts of people having bad experiences with it.
    Any first-hand (like you) or even second-hand (how you saw your friend behave while or after taking it) accounts would be appreciated.
    .
    .
    .
    Give the wise guy about 4.5 minutes and you’ll see why I think some of us have Tertiary Understanding Disorder.
    .
    .
    .
    Zed plus Zed equals Dee.

  • The coming winter will surely be one of the most interesting ever for the US.

    Not only is approximately half the land area exceptionally dry

    http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/

    but also the supposed leading indicator of financial success is looking rather dry

    http://in.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5EDJI

    down 2000 from peak.

    Cap that off with O’bomber’s recent appalling performance at the UN

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-30/want-hear-joke

    and we could be forgiven for thinking the party is coming to an end fairly soon.

  • Thanks, Sabine,I enjoy your comments as well,as well as Lidia and others.
    Shep,I am not sure if your 3.37 comment refers to me. I am an atheist,but if I had to choose between between animism and monotheism, I think that the
    evidence is that the animistic view has been far less rapacious to the
    planet than monotheism. Even Paul Ehrlich in his later books has concluded
    that it is clear that humans bave a need to ‘devote’ or feel reverence
    for something other than their daily lives,and that part of the solution to the environmental crisis lies in changing out attitude to the natural world,and encouraging people to have an attitude of reverence towards it.
    It seems to me that the animistic view largely reflected this.

    The environmental situation has deteriorated so quickly, it is evident
    that all of this is just idealistic dreaming, There is no time left to
    even start on what would probably be an impossible task,anyway.

    Paul,thanks for your comment.I don’t think I have much to add beyond the comments I have posted.

  • The word “story” is often used to mean something other than “truth”. Like when someone says, “Oh, that’s just a story”. When we say that, we’re drawing a distinction between what we believe to be “true” and what we believe to be “false”. This is the way Gerald seems to use this word when he talks about PR, propaganda, etc. All stories, and much BS too… but what powerful stories. And how they direct man’s activities!

    But what we call “truth” and “reality” are stories too, it’s just that we believe in them so much and they appeal to us so much that we stop wondering. Reality sets in when wonder goes for a hike.

    One story says everything is a story or starts with a story. We enact out the stories that take hold of us and our consciousness. Today’s dominant stories are about techno-optimism, risk taking, and change-seeking. We hold on to them tightly too. Yesterday’s stories were about spirits, animals, the idea of the sacred, and the meta-story of holding on to these stories lightly, which went hand in hand with listening to the creation around us, paying attention, and living in the moment.

    Paul, I can see how a materialist perspective takes energy as the central idea around which stories evolve. I suspect this is partly because energy can be measured in its inflows and outflows and it makes sense from a scientific/logical standpoint. Stories are more nebulous and fuzzy. And to say that energy use is determined by the stories that man subscribes to would itself be a story, a story that is not easily “evidenced”. Artleads said it well: “I like the notion that stories evolve alongside greater determinants. I’m not always sure which comes first; the stories or the determinants.” I don’t feel the urge to decide one way or another.

    Most of us here connect with the story Guy is telling us. Guy is a great storyteller. And a great teacher. But what’s a great teacher other than a talented professional storyteller? One that shares in the awe of the listener as the story is being told, as if even the teacher is hearing it for the first time.

    Storytelling has a long and rich history. And it’s not just humans that tell stories. Every plant, animal and rock has a story to tell. Our present critical situation has something to do with the loss of our ability to listen to their stories. We don’t even listen to the stories that our indigenous brothers and sisters tell us in plain English!

    This is not to say that we can transplant older stories that have “worked” for 99% of our history into our current climate (no pun intended) and expect them to change our material experience. Stories are about wonder and perhaps some of them will help us go in peace.

    At the end of the day, aren’t we all storytellers? Every comment a story, every blog post a story? The appeal any of these stories has to us as we read them depends on what other stories occupy our consciousness in the moment. Some we tend to connect with more than others. And some we might connect with better an year or 10 years from now because the stories that will populate our mind then will be different. Hence the vast diversity of opinions, agreements and disagreements here and everywhere else.

    I can’t help but wonder how unique a situation we’re living through. To deal with such a vast range of opinions, notions, thoughts, beliefs and stories is a brand new experience for humanity. In the past, for 99% of our history, even though different tribes had different stories, any given human being had one creation story to contend with. Not so today when each of us are bombarded with conflicting, contradicting and confusing stories and we are asked to make up our mind. What a problem! And what a new new problem! Perhaps we should go easy on ourselves. And leave some room for wonder. Easier said than done, of course 🙂

    ——-

    El Sea, loved reading your comment. Thank you, Caroline, for posting that Motherboard piece.

  • El Sea, Infanttyrone: Another interesting intersection between UFOs and mushrooms, I think, is McKenna’s theorizing that perhaps mushrooms are an alien species of some sort. I think it was in The Archaic Revival (can’t remember where I read it), but he suggested that when you ingest them, you “merge” with the mushroom and become sort of a hybrid new being, not human, not mushroom, but a combo. Perhaps we could call it a “mushman”? Haha! There is also the idea that “manna from heaven” mentioned in the Bible was actually magic mushrooms. You know, makes you hear God talking and see burning bushes and all that…

    Now, I don’t necessarily believe these things, but they are cool ideas and sure give a new perspective to The Trip. El Sea, on your point of why UFOs and hallucinogens give you some kind of odd ‘hope’ I think it’s exactly what you say- the idea of total mystery, of possibility, of recognizing that there is so much more to existence than our tiny little brains can conceive of. There is some kind of hope in that, even if it doesn’t mean anything in terms of our personal existence.

    But on the issue of dosing the planet all at once? That actually sounds like a total nightmare hahahahahaha!! I can’t even imagine that. Not even the ‘dosing centers’ you mention. It takes a certain constitution to handle it, but I will say the dosing centers would be a better idea than chem-trailing it. Set and setting can be controlled that way, at least.

    As far as Salvia goes, somebody gave me some once, but I think it was bunk. I smoked it with some pot and sat on the couch waiting for something to happen. Nothing did. Certainly didn’t feel like it was “supposed” to feel like. I stared at a self-portrait of Leonard Peltier as a child and it looked like he was crying, but it was dark and I was stoned, so that sort of accounts for that I think. Also, he already looks sad in the picture, so it’s not a stretch to imagine him crying.

    In the meantime, enjoy this “sober trip” through the grocery store:

  • Hi Infanttyrone – I attended one of the first conferences on salvia divinorum back in 2000 at Brietenbush, an event that lasted 3 days I think.
    (It was still legal at the time, fuck you NSA.)
    There were lectures, and then there was Homework!
    The homework was to smoke a concentrate and report back.
    You were Not allowed to try it alone.
    After 3 deep tokes, I was in an immense aztec themed space with high vaulted ceilings. I mostly just took all this in, delighted of course, being a visually oriented person.
    It was over in about 5 minutes.
    At least that’s what they said.
    For several hours afterwards, although I felt completely rational in every other aspect, I could see beams of white light coming from my hands. I could run these beams along my arms and body, and it felt very healing. I was amazed, and thought about things like ‘repeatability’ as far as scientific proof.

    I knew, and still know, that this energy that I saw that day is there all the time. It’s just that the salvia allowed me to see it that once. Even though I can no longer see it, I can still feel it. It was an important experience for me, a gift to say the least.
    How can we not fall over in amazement of everything?

    I also grew it as a houseplant, and tried the fresh form once or twice without much result.
    Maybe growing it indoors reduces potency.

    Speaking of memories, one from my early childhood is of lying on the floor under the piano while my mother hammered out the phrasing of this piece (sans orchestra). She died when I was still young, so hearing it brings both sadness and joy:

  • The cold blob near the tip of Greenland is not the only anomaly in that area (New Type of SLC Detection Model – 6).

  • Robert Callaghan,
    Not only did the bastards drive bisons over cliffs,they were probably the main or a major contributing factor (along with climate
    change) to the extinction of the megafauna in the Americas and Australia.
    You clearly need to read a summary of some of damage wrought by industrial civilisation ,written by …um…er…Robert Callaghan.

    Australia changed greatly when humans arrived. When any new species is introduced into an ecosystem,the system changes,and with humans,that is writ large. While much is made of the megafauna extinction mentioned above, it is worth noting that other species ,some species of macropods
    (kangaroo relatives) for example,thrived under the ‘Patchwork burning’
    regime used by the Aborigines.
    The central point is that if humans are to exist at all,which system
    has the least destructive impact on ecosystems,and has the potential
    to allow the long term survival of our species on this planet.
    Industrial civilisation is not just hunter-gatherers writ large.
    There are several systemic flaws that exist under an industrial system that guarantee that it would not survive beyond the end of this century,even if atmospheric CO2 was benign. Those systemic flaws did not exist under a hunter-gatherer system. I have summarized some of those
    flaws previously,and won’t repeat it.

    The Australian aborigines lived here for 50.000 years and at the end of that time ,there is unanimous agreement that the ecosystem was in vibrant good health,such that some of the early European explorers waxed
    lyrical in their descriptions of it.
    Industrial civilisation will last around 300 years,and leave a wasteland in its wake.
    I wonder if there is a lesson there?

  • .
    @El Sea, I too enjoyed your post. Exploring the inner world is a nice green hobby. It requires no resources or infrastructure or very many inputs at all … just your mind. 🙂

    .
    Thanks Guy for that snippet from John Gray.

    It’s interesting to compare and contrast the difference in behaviors and lifestyles between the Christian Europeans who had a cultural story teaching the dominion over nature, versus the indigenous Americans who had a cultural story teaching that nature was our family and comprised of our relatives.

    It seems to me the stories we told ourselves often had a big impact on how we approached life. I think in some cases, they definitely preceded and were the determinant.

    .
    Pete Townsend had an interesting take on being cautious about what stories we tell ourselves. Here’s a song from his ‘White City’ album. I’ve provided a few of the pertinent lyrics.

    .
    You once believed that crazy accidents
    Were happening to you
    You were chasing a capricious wind

    Whenever bad luck and trouble
    Happened to pursue you
    The dice would surely saved your skin

    But when you look back, you must realize
    That nothing in your life’s divine
    Everything that’s ever befallen you
    Happened simply ’cause it crossed your mind

    You’re crashing by design

    Nothing must pass this line
    Unless it is well defined
    You just have to be resigned
    You’re crashing by design …

    .

  • ‘hallucinogens could still provide a healing balm as we wink out’

    a lovely thought, el sea. i hope it’s true and experienced by many, including myself. i’ve already read several glowing reports of ecstasy’s psychological healing use in coming to terms with death and other obstacles to happiness/serenity. definitely an avenue worth pursuing imo, for those able to. it would be worth pursuing under any circumstance.

    ‘Anyone out there have experience with Salvia Divinorum ?’

    yes. in fact, it’s the only hallucinogen i’ve ever ingested in sufficient quantity to ‘hallucinate’. it was a taste of hell i hope to never experience again. a nightmare i was greatly relieved to escape/emerge from. i had a friend acting as a monitor, which might have saved me. of course there are many positive reports too i’ve read about. i advise to abstain or only proceed with great caution in a safe environment with someone u trust acting as a monitor. the ‘hallucination’ is short lived, but very intense, in my experience and other reports.

  • Hi babajingo & Wren,

    babajingo,

    Yes, I recall hearing McKenna conjecture in a YT clip about the possibility of interstellar travel for mushroom spores. I think he said his idea was related to but a more radical version of Crick & Ponampurama’s idea of directed panspermia. I guess if you only weigh as much as a spore does you don’t need much in the way of propulsion. I haven’t seen anything about a specific connection between manna & mushrooms, but there was a book I saw on a bookstore shelf in about 1971 but didn’t buy or read (The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, bu John Allegro) that posited a connection between amanita muscaria (definitely) and the Essenes (as I recall, but could have been one or more different sects).

    I found a few written/transcribed interviews with McKenna just by telling Google “McKenna hypothesis mushrooms outer space”. And there is at least one PDF version of the Allegro book available for simple download.

    Don’t know if you’re into comedy much, but the late Bill Hicks had some thoughtful and hilarious routines about mushrooms. He often referred to taking psilocybin as “squeegee-ing your Third Eye”. Pretty sure one routine involved the phrase/sentence (or very close to it) “We proceeded to take what Terrence McKenna would call a ‘heroic’ dose of mushrooms.” No idea if those two people ever intersected, but it’s an interesting question.

    I doubt the general population will get sprayed with hallucinogens or have access to doping centers. I recall Leary testifying to Congress (Ted Kennedy’s committee) about the benefits of having such places, exactly for the reason you mentioned – that set & setting could be more controllable and less risky. Not sure I’d be very trusting about meds being given away by the 1% to the 99%. They make us pay for almost everything else – free would be a red flag to me.

    Interesting video you posted…almost got the munchies halfway through, but then I realized I had nothing on hand and would have to resort to eating Pouff Pastry, a strange concoction no doubt available only in the des(s)ert (a)isle of that same store.
    .
    .
    .
    Wren,

    Thank you very much for the info on salvia. If you got through it OK, then I’m not going to worry. Research twice, worry not. Not planning a 5-10 minute excursion in the next 4-5 months, but will let you know if/when I return from one.

    I checked a couple of sources and it sure looks like it is legal in Washington and Oregon, and the only punishable act for California is providing it to a minor. If you know differently, please share your source.

    Grieg, huh…well, this isn’t a John Lilly level of coincidence, but last Friday I went to see one of my favorite bands. In the first clip below, try to catch the riff suggested about 3:35 by Cole the keyboardist and then picked up by Carolyn. I thought it was from Peter & the Wolf by Prokofiev, but after the show I asked Cole and he said it was part of a work by Grieg called The Hall of the Mountain King. (Clearly, I’m not your best bet as a lifeline for answering questions about classical music.) This clip is a few years old, and I heard the same thing on Friday, so I think they’ve incorporated what once was ad lib into a regular feature.

    If you ever get to Austin, check them out. They do travel, so maybe keep tabs on them lest you miss them in case they do come anywhere near your town.

    If you wanna watch someone experiencing joy at a keyboard, here’s one way…

    Res ipsa loquitur, but not in the legal sense.
    .
    .
    .
    tvt,
    Sorry to hear about your bad experience with salvia. I know the company I bought mine from offered a wide range of strengths. I think they put some of the plant material into a solution, reduced the volume of it, and then sprayed the booster-juice onto regular-strength leaves. Quality control & strength control may be more of an art than a science in cases like that. Maybe you were a casualty of an overly-boosted batch.

    G’night y’all

  • baba…i’ll say more about this in the future but…salvia divinorum brought on the most intense hallucinations I have ever experienced and I have a lot. shrooms, lsd, mescaline, ayahausca, have nothing on it…there are different potencies, but if you’ve got the good stuff look out! be sure you have someone you completely trust to watch you, so you don’t jump out of a window or otherwise hurt yourself. I’m glad I did it now, but had I known at the time what I was getting into…there may not be any floors or walls or anything you can relate to. not a joke.

  • salvia divinorum brought me the closest I’ve come to “death by amazement”…ayahausca, on the other hand, gave me all the answers…if only I could live by them. LOVE IS ALL. happy trails.

  • I think you all should read Ulvfugls’ latest essay at Mons Angelorum, it’s heavy going and I’m exhausted as usual, at end of day,but I’m pretty sure it supports my position on not coming to any conclusion as to the true nature of things.
    And that psychedelics may help you see the wisdom of that position.

  • David,

    Monbiot is very perceptive of the craziness going on these days in the world of techno-fantasy when he lists some of the over-the-top inventions: “An egg tray for your fridge, that syncs with your phone to let you know how many eggs are left. A gadget for scrambling them – inside the shell. Wigs for babies, to allow “baby girls with little or no hair at all the opportunity to have a beautifully realistic hair style”. The iPotty, that permits toddlers to keep playing on their iPads while toilet training….”

    Indiegogo is filled with stupid products-in-the-making like this one: A box of rain in your living room This is the sort of stuff the “brightest” minds we have today are working on.

    ——–

    Elsewhere, the proxy war in Syria between the US and Russia kicked up a notch:
    1
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/putins-blitz-leaves-washington-rankled-and-confused/5479213

  • I was very “experienced” back in the 60s, but nothing – nothing – prepared me for my one salvia experience a few years back. In ten seconds a single toke blew away my reality like a puff of fluff. Without a pause to realize what was happening, I was flung into a universe full of green, fleshy, stalk-like, growing, writhing beings, intelligent but utterly alien, with all their malevolent attention focused on me, the intruder in their realm. I have never experienced terror that deep, and hope I never do again. Fortunately it only lasted 5 minutes or so. It was far worse than I expect death will be. Definitely not the kind of story I want in my life.

  • Our monetary system is a monopoly of bank-debt money with interest and nobody questions this (warning: if you do, it’ll ruin your “career”). Our monetary system is by its very nature set up to destroy people, communities, sovereign nations, as we are required to constantly compete to pay for the interest. There are hundreds of historical examples. Our monetary system may be efficient but it is unsustainable. That’s what brought us to climate change. Climate change is a symptom of “their” unsustainable interest-based money monoculture. Natural ecosystems may not be highly efficient but they sure are sustainable and resilient.

    The economy is a community where we should collaborate not compete. Single currency bank-issued debt money with interest is THE blind spot. It’s like we were trained not to see. Nobody questions it.

    You need to get out of the money box.

  • I just got back from a trip to Paris and Madrid, Spain. I was horrified to see the sick trees wherever I went. This trip confirmed for me my fear that Global Tree Decline is just that; global. People were trying to calm me by telling me that it was just fall colors. But clearly the trees are sick. The edges of the leaves on so many trees were burned with green interiors. If it had been fall colors, the entire leaf would be uniformly yellow, red, orange, or gold. But as I said, they were wilted and brown and dried up around the edges with a small “green” interior. Is this attributed to ozone burn? I really fear that we may not have viable trees on our planet in ten to 15 years time. We’re just radically changing the atmospheric make-up too fast. These poor trees just can’t keep up. That’s my rant for the day. Call me crazy….

  • paul, I think you and I boarded the same ship that day…that salvia trip is the ONE that really made me doubt “death” is the end.

  • Dear (No longer a)Pilot.

    Yes, you’ve mentioned this before, and you’re so right and not ranting! What we see are not fall (autumn) colours as people seem to think. It just shows how quickly they get used to things and take them as “normal”. I’m just as frustrated as you are with my dear fellow humans.
    Here in England, it’s exactly the same and everywhere else in Europe too, where ever I’ve looked over the last few years. It’s trees and shrubs everywhere, all the woody vegetation. Their leaves look burnt and brown around the edges and fall before their time. Here, in the UK, we’ve had so much rain this year that this burning and early falling, before the leaves actually reach their their proper autumn colours, cannot be put down to draught. The soil is moist everywhere here on this island, yet these symptoms can be observed.
    People just don’t remember what trees in autumn should look like, mainly because they’ve never looked properly, they’ve never been observant, thus not aware, thus they don’t care. It’s frightening. You’re not crazy. You observe and care – I do too.

    It’s the same with insects on windscreens (bug splat, I think you call it). During the 70s, this was still a phenomenon everywhere. We had to clean our windscreens regularly, you remember? No longer. This had been mentioned here on NBL some time ago (I think by Lidia) but just like the ailing, dying trees, most people have not noticed the change. And what a change!! How asleep and self-absorbed can people be!
    That’s what all that navel-gazing and busyness does. How could anybody possibly think that some “lucky” humans could survive in a world denuded of vegetation. Maybe grow potatoes in their own faeces like Matt Damon on Mars? That’s a great idea! Better start practising.

    There are so many signs of a dying biosphere if you care to look and be aware, yet some people are still gathering more evidence and juggle with more numbers and statistics. What a waste of time. The whole discussion is tedious and breaks my heart.
    But it’s better to be aware and bear witness to the suffering, even if we can’t do anything much to help. It makes me go out there among the trees even more than I might do otherwise, just to be with them. And I always find solace.

    This is one of the things we should bear witness to and talk about more often here (while we can) because most of us have this awareness, otherwise we wouldn’t be here.

  • I think that burning bush Christ saw in the desert was a methane flare.

  • The Oregon killer was “Stupid, Crazy, Greedy, Evil, and Innocent?!”

    Only to kooks!

  • 44 south; ” … my position on not coming to any conclusion as to the true nature of things.”

    NOT coming to any conclusion about the true nature of things is a clear position of extreme relativism &/or eclecticism.

    “I can’t tell breakfast from dog shid?”

    If your brain is completely open, it is EMPTY!

    It is what we hold in our brain that defines how we deal with the world, most especially if we claim to be “doing science.”

    So, when Castenada says that his Don Juan can fly, I must be critically skeptical, if I am doing science.

    Marvin Harris; “Eclecticism consists of the refusal to state what generally determines what.”

    And – “To be eclectic is to be strategically agnostic in no definable manner.”

    Simply stated, if I am investigating ANYTHING, I must proceed scientifically with the laws of scientific epistemology as my tools & guide.

    If you are not doing science, what are you doing?

    “Anything goes” is intellectual suicide, no nothing-ism, as in long departed Paul Feyerabend’s armchair philosophy.

  • “there are more things in heaven and earth , horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy”.

  • Dredd, when we observe single murder, cavalier human butchery, & mass murder; as in Hiroshima, the Gaza Concentration Camp, Iraq, Libya, & Syria; “rambling” twits inform us that we should have no difficulty assigning both cause & blame – it’s just mother nature again in all her dastardly twisted perversions.

    Ditto for toiling Norwegian doctors & Irish nurses ministering to battered & bloodied Palestinan children in the Gaza Concentration Camp.

    Ditto for the cultured Israelis reigning all industrial weaponry on the captive Palestinian children’s heads.

    The captive Palestinians can’t get out of the way, protect themselves, or retaliate because it’s just mother nature doing all this butchery, murder, & mayhem.

    You can’t fool mother nature!

    The Flawed Lawd Gawd made it this way, maybe?

  • @ Sabine.

    Thank you for your kind words of support and empathy in regards to Global Tree Decline. Good to know I’m not getting delusional in middle age! Ha! Yes, as far as windscreens and lack of bugs, I get that, too. You couldn’t drive across North Dakota in the American Plains in the 70’s and 80’s and not have your car covered (bumper and windscreen/windshield) with insects. Not any more… very few “splats” these days. Just tells us all how in decline all organisms are on a global scale. We’re watching a train wreck happen in slow motion. I just wish I could make people more aware. But they’d rather do more important things like watching “Dancing with the Stars” or some other TV show. We’re living amongst zombies he don’t see nor care to see the reality that’s crashing down around us. Second post for the day.. Peace out to all.

    Patrick

  • I’ve posted information about two call-in radio shows. One is tomorrow. Please check out this post and plan to call in.

  • Gerald, I wish I could sit down and have a beer with you someday… maybe do some salvia…if you’re man enough!

  • one can come to many conclusions about this material world…but clearly there are many others…or you fuckers would have all the answers by now.

  • Meat – You are correct. We have structured ourselves within a system designed to bring out the worst in human behavior and all we can do is point to the bad behavior and condemn all humans as bad. Ridiculous and pitiful.

    Pilot(not) – Yes we should all do as you do and fly all around the world lamenting on the destruction that everyone flying around the world has wrought.

  • by the way, don jaun can fly…he was just in Europe telling people the world is going to end…I think he’s close!

  • .
    @Sabine and (No longer a) Pilot.

    This is one of the things we should bear witness to and talk about more often here (while we can) because most of us have this awareness, otherwise we wouldn’t be here.

    Absolutely.

    People just don’t remember what trees in autumn should look like, mainly because they’ve never looked properly, they’ve never been observant, thus not aware,

    Thanks Sabine. I think you’ve answered a question I’ve puzzled over for years and years now. “How can people I know not be noticing this?” That’s it … they just never have been observant, or cared enough about anything outside of their own selves enough, to ever form a habit of looking or noticing. Ha, as I type that, I guess I could have just typed ‘self-absorbed.’

    For me, it was the slow disappearance of winter in my locale that began years and years ago, like even way back in the nineties. I’d always query people about it in astonishment, “Isn’t it weird we have no snow this year?” “Isn’t it weird that it’s December and, other than that one cold week last month, we’re still wearing light summer jackets?”

    People always just pause, raise an eyebrow, and then just shrug like it hasn’t even crossed their mind. I’ve always thought they just didn’t care, or just couldn’t connect how alarming it was to see such a radical change taking place in their surroundings. I think you’ve nailed it Sabine … they honestly just hadn’t noticed or even looked. How bizarre.

    Now, in these most recent years, it will warm up so much in February, or even late January (and stay that way for weeks at a time), that the perennials will sprout out of the ground, and the buds will swell on all the trees like they’re trying to start leafing out … but it’s only February still!!! Then, if it gets super cold again for even just a few days, the sprouted plants get snuffed, and who knows what the trees feel like since last week they thought it was spring.

    Now I know it’s that big old wavy jet stream going nuts and allowing California’s weather to slip way, way up into Canada, now almost all the way up to the arctic recently. Then, if it slips east, we can plunge back into equally over exaggerated frigid arctic air as the ridge becomes a trough, the now famed ‘polar vortex.’ They used to call it an arctic outburst, now it’s more like an arctic raging tantrum, forget the outburst.

    Still, no one notices when I comment about it. Too busy I guess … work, cook, TV, sleep … rinse and repeat. My point here is that how can they not feel uneasy about this … spring doesn’t come to Canada in February, get real. Nope, they honestly aren’t noticing. Thanks for nailing it for me Sabine … they just honestly didn’t notice.

    The worst thing this past years, and I first noticed it the summer before too, is the burny sensation of the sun on your skin on the clear summer days. That’s new, and much worse this year than it even was last year. I think there’s something to that paper where I read about radiation from fukashima reacting in the atmosphere and creating a large, growing ozone hole that’s now spreading out from the arctic. Seriously, the sun is prickly on the skin now within minutes on some days, and it’s starting to burn some plants this year for the first time here too now. And it’s not drought, there’s plenty of moisture for them … my tomato plants burned into a yellow mess this year by August.

    Still, no one notices. It makes it even worse I guess that I live in a big oil and gas city. I think peoples job security depends a lot on them not noticing. Hell, you don’t even talk about climate change in my city or you’re considered a terrorist, literally, and now almost by legal decree here in Canada.

    Anyway, I’m noticing. Pass the salvia please. Calgon, take me away!

    .
    Give blood, but don’t expect to ever see reward.
    Give love, and keep blood between brothers.

    .

    .
    Holy shit was that ever a kickin’ live version of that song.

    Music is one of the last remaining things that can still excite me.

  • …at least we can all agree on something.

  • @infanttyrone

    I forgot to thank you for that killer Hiromi Uehara clip.
    She sure rocked that. Er, I mean jazzed it, or fusioned it?

    I used to play that sort of music when I was younger and wilder.
    Then I got old and had to switch to the classic rock thing. 🙁

  • lwa…has capitalism got you in a straight jacket? nothing stops me from making burning ,blazing, important gut wrenchingly beautiful original music and art. it’s the only reason I’m here.

  • Jef, “Pilot(not) – Yes we should all do as you do and fly all around the world lamenting on the destruction that everyone flying around the world has wrought.”

    Not pilot posted in all seriousness & concern about the dying trees, but he couldn’t see the tons of CO2 destruction & dead trees he was causing.

  • LWA

    Yes that burning sensation in the sun, even at this time of mellow fruitfulness. I’m in the South of England, Hampshire, and September, October used to be “mellow” in the truest sense of the word. Often, we had sunny days her in this rainy country but the sun was just beautifully warming and then colder nights. No stinging sun, yes, that’s it now all the time. It even stings through my jeans (very spooky).It can’t be that I’m just getting old and more sensitive. I’ve asked younger people who, when put on the spot, also admit to this weird stinging sensation. But again, nobody actually thinks it’s weird.
    Sitting in the sun without a sunshade at this time of the year was never a problem years ago but now it’s different. After a very shot time, the stinging begins. If you feel this in Canada and I feel this here in Europe, in what is classed the North, it must be like that all over the world.

    What about you people down under? Have you felt a difference, and what about the state for your woody plants?

  • @ Digixplor… Yes we know these symptoms of yours for some 100 years already

    B. Palliative Measures: Strategies that help us avoid life’s miseries:

    Substitutive Satisfactions: these are forms of compensation for lack of pleasure elsewhere. Here Freud includes all forms of illusion, including religious fervor, fantasy, escape into art, etc. These overlap with what Freud elsewhere refers to as “fantasy.”

    5) adopting an “aesthetic” attitude = cultivating a love of beauty (essentially another substitutive satisfaction), art; a particular mode for finding satisfaction = finding what is beautiful in the world, seeing the “positive” side of everything;

  • @digixplor

    Well, here’s my thing. I’ve made my living most of my life playing music as a session/sideman/sometimes front-man player. After playing almost every style of music in almost every situation you can imagine, I’ve discovered what it is that I like the most about performing … and that’s a big crowd of frenetically tuned in people to work energy back and forth with. It’s the shaman in me I guess. It’s all about working that energy.

    Because of that, I’d rather be playing stuff like Rush or pink floyd for a packed club of 200+ raging twenty somethings who are very into their music, than I would be playing original music to a crowd of twelve in a coffee shop. I find people have powerful memories attached to the songs they know well from days gone by, and they often open up better to music they know, than to something they don’t.

    That’s why I left the jazz fusion and be-bop scene years ago. Eventually, no one came to see those shows anymore in our area. I know that sounds like I’m just in it for the ego, but really, it’s about enjoying working a huge crowd of focused energy in my strange supernatural way that I like the most. That is my biggest thrill about music. In the past few years, for me that’s meant fronting a pink floyd show that just happens to be hitting the young crowd in just the right spot to make me ‘da bomb’, which then gives me that big, raging crowd that I’m looking for to play ‘energy tennis’ with.

    It seems that ever since I played my first 60,000+ person concert years ago (which oddly enough was with an original group), a small coffee/campfire crowd just never did it for me ever again after that. Original acts just don’t draw crowds in my area large enough to have any fun with it, unless it’s someone super huge. So, the classic rock scene is what’s been presented to me lately, and it gives me what I’m looking for out of performing … so there I am.

    Although lately I’ve laid off gigging quite a bit. Too depressed I think. But, a few weeks ago the boys did drag me out to an outdoor festival and I did a set of floyd … and for a moment I remembered the bliss. I write original tunes too as a past time, and we do play some of them from time to time, but … I just don’t enjoy that as much as playing some top notch well executed classic rock tunes for a large partying crowd. I guess it’s just where I’m at with it.

    Selfish? Maybe. Artistic? Probably not. Super fun and blissful? You bet!!

    And it’s a chance to work with that huge energy. That’s my fascination with it.

    There are many things under the sun Horatio. There are many reasons to enjoy playing music. I like a huge wild party of people loosing their minds. That’s what gets me excited when I play, not necessarily whether or not it’s an original song that I’m playing. Although, it does have to be high quality music. I play with some of the best studio musicians in my area. It’s pretty fun, when I get off my ass and do it. 🙂

    Am I excused? Musically that is? 😉

    Now you know a little more about me.

  • some people here call freud an artist. positive? you haven’t seen my artwork. i’ll be leading the charge when the revolution begins. my art attempts to communicate truth…it’s not about escape. I’m here as a witness of stupid human tricks…no stone unturned. maybe your thinking of dancing with the stars.

  • @ Digixplor Sure !… let me know . I`ll be watching . Although it was told “The revolution won`t be televised” I guess it will be on “www.” instead send me a link otherwise something to contemplate on for yourself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpJXwtnxdR0

  • lwa …sorry but you’re talking about ego gratification and narcissism…nothing wrong with that…I see it everyday…but that’s just the corporate schtick…pick your audience…you can play for 200 idiots…or 12 people who know the score. sure, it’s a physical catharsis…but it’s an intellectual pursuit for me. I’m talking about the difference between mediocrity and something worthy. you and e.p. have more to talk about.

  • Gerald Spezio Says:
    October 2nd, 2015 at 7:39 am

    Dredd, when we observe single murder, cavalier human butchery, & mass murder; as in Hiroshima, the Gaza Concentration Camp, Iraq, Libya, & Syria; “rambling” twits inform us that we should have no difficulty assigning both cause & blame – it’s just mother nature again in all her dastardly twisted perversions.

    =======================================
    The warped murderer Stalin understood:

    “One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.”

    Unenlightened people, and other animals, are not capable of having a sense of right and wrong and what to do about either.

    Especially those who blame “mother nature” or anything else for their own personal lack of enlightenment, understanding, and scientific perspective.

    They have no concept of personal shame or personal guilt.

    IOW they are psychopaths.

  • yeah p.p…I know. great film. you must be the one who thinks everything’s o,k, then…and content to watch.

  • The warped murderer Stalin understood:

    “One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.”

    Unenlightened people, and other animals, are not capable of having a sense of right and wrong and what to do about either.

    Especially those who blame “mother nature” or anything else for their own personal lack of enlightenment, understanding, and scientific perspective.

    They have no concept of personal shame or personal guilt.

    IOW they are psychopaths.

  • @digi

    I think you missed my point about my exploration of manipulating and moving energy. That, for a long time now, has been a fascination for me on a shamanic level of study far more than what some bone head has to say in a song or not. I study mood, subconscious mesmerism, and many healing modalities. These interests have become far more important to me than the ‘artist’ trip, which is just it’s own form of ego trip in my view anyway. That’s actually why I stopped taking artists very seriously long ago, particularly the ones who take themselves too seriously.

    As I said, for me it’s an energy laboratory, and nothing more. However, see it as you wish. What I chuckle at sometimes is actually the oblivious artists. What my scientific interest has been for many years now is “ok fine, but now why does this all work this way.”

    I know, it drives my musician friends nuts too. But, they sure won’t stop calling me. Few consistently collapse the wave like I can. They take themselves very seriously too. 🙂

    Sorry if you can’t appreciate the subtly. Music is really just a laboratory for me, that’s all. I study people and energy interaction. The music is really just a tool to me. I guess that’s maybe just what happens when you do it all your life.

    Enjoy your art though.

  • lwa… you give shaman a bad name when you talk about doing covers of rush and pink Floyd. I picture a second rate jim Morrison…and he wasn’t all that.

  • Hey. whatever gets the energy lab going.

    Takes some pretty fine musicians to pull of a Rush tune.

    I know a thousands hacks that can play a blues tune and say, ‘ya, but I wrote it’

    So what if they wrote it, if it sucked.

    Give shaman’s a bad name? Some people’s kids, I’m tellin’ ya.

    Please do direct me to some of your ‘art’ digi.

  • LWA,

    Yes, Hiromi done herself proud with that performance…likewise her supporting cast.
    My new term is that she “Lutherized” it.
    Like with a great big nail on a church door.

    Less than 4 minutes…go ahead, indulge yourself…the punch ain’t spiked yet.
    .
    .
    .
    Have you seen Dead Floyd ? If not, they’re on YT in multiple clips.
    I was more of a Deadhead than a Floydster, but enjoy both.
    But I’ll listen to anyone with enough gumption to play PITBand. YMMV

    I don’t trust to nuthin’…much less James Randi.

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    .
    .
    .
    THANKS FOR THE SAGE ADVICE DEPARTMENT

    Many thanks to the people who related their salvia experiences.
    Sounds a lot like what McKenna described as the DMT trip.
    just the sort of thing I’ll be in the market for in 5-6 months or so.

  • what the fuck are you talking about dredd? you have’nt moved on from our tiff a million posts ago? seriously, aren’t we all on the same team? are you all that immature?
    that’s why were on this sight right? we have slightly more in common than the average bear? lwa…and I haven’t done it my whole life?…I would wager I just have slightly higher standards than you.

  • “I just have slightly higher standards than you.”

    Sure, that must be it. Yup. 😉

    Anyway, on to other more important things now. Like clipping my toenails and enjoying nature while it’s still here.

  • @babajingo you said:
    “[McKenna] suggested that when you ingest them, you “merge” with the mushroom and become sort of a hybrid new being, not human, not mushroom, but a combo. Perhaps we could call it a “mushman”?”

    I hope to ‘rot where I drop’ and become a mush(wo)man for sure!

    And: “But on the issue of dosing the planet all at once? That actually sounds like a total nightmare hahahahahaha!! I can’t even imagine that. Not even the ‘dosing centers’ you mention. It takes a certain constitution to handle it, but I will say the dosing centers would be a better idea than chem-trailing it. Set and setting can be controlled that way, at least.”

    I have a sick sense of humor and find the thought pretty amusing. But, I agree that a secret global dosing would be beyond cruel, totally preposterous and maybe impossible from a purely mechanical standpoint. It’s the kind of crazy crap that industrialized humans have been doing for centuries. That said, the US MKULTRA project at least considered such tactics to a smaller degree and may have actually tried mass dosings. Secret dosing was most certainly tried in individual and small group settings with some disasterous consequences (see Lee & Shlain’s “Acid Dreams” for chilly details.

    As I understand it, there was quite a debate going beween Aldous Huxley and Tim Leary among others about the proper protocol for bringing hallucinogens to the masses. Huxley argued for going the inside route and quietly dosing the elites while others wanted a more egalitarian approach which is what won out in the end. A good argument can be made that Huxley’s approach might have been the wiser and more successful choice. Bring enlightenment to the power brokers and then let it “trickle down”. Yes, more of the 1% pissing on the 99%.

    Another great read on this semi-secret history is Jay Steven’s “Storming Heaven”. Of course, I wouldn’t advocate a true hallucination inducing agent be used, more of a designer empatheogen. I mean, what else could possibly wake enough people up and allow them to become observant and caring about the other beings we share this planet with? The daily horror show in the media has no effect whatsoever, except to increase the amount of horror that we can tolerate. It might have worked 40 years ago when there was a relatively large group of well seasoned psychedelic experiencers around to help and the biosphere wasn’t yet terminal.

    A few generations given a bi or tri-monthly dosing of a strong empatheogen like MDMA might have made a big difference and re-set the human story. Too late now regardless. The sooner we exit the better, but I ache for the plants and other beings.

    @ (no longer a) Pilot, Sabine, LWA, and Melindia previously on global tree death:

    Sabine said: “People just don’t remember what trees in autumn should look like, mainly because they’ve never looked properly, they’ve never been observant, thus not aware, thus they don’t care.”

    I see ill and dying trees all over western washington. We have not had a frost yet, but many leaves are burnt orange, yellow and already falling. It’s been a very warm fall and some of my blueberries are budding again. Tomatos were badly sunburned. It’s all sickening. And yet, the birds and (remaining) insects go about their business. It’s a joy to see them.

    @ Paul Chefurka Said:
    “I was flung into a universe full of green, fleshy, stalk-like, growing, writhing beings, intelligent but utterly alien, with all their malevolent attention focused on me, the intruder in their realm.”

    I had a similar encounter with fungi alone in deep woods (I was taking the heroic dose McKenna thing a little too far). Suddenly all the trees surounding my campfire had eyes and were observing me with a cool malevolence, like a germ under a microscope. I was very aware of their suffering kin the firewood crackling beside me and how insignificant I was in their realm. Later, I melted into the earth and became a “soil being” for an eternity. There is no way to adequately describe that existence using spoken language. Yes, in human time it was only for a few hours, but in my subjective experience I existed for millenia, turned over and toiled by the hands of man, by machines, rooted about by animals, rained upon and turned to liquid ash. Although the memory has faded somewhat, I retain a sense of having lived ‘forever’.

    LWA: I dig what you’re saying about playing music and moving energy. Always wished i had the talent for that but I’m more of a visual creator. Punk rock is still my first love, but it takes krazy skill to play Rush and Pink Floyd convincingly! I spend a big part of most days listening to music- that and digging in the dirt are the few things left that I truly enjoy.

  • so I’m an animal and a bone head and I don’t know anything about science or subtlety… you guys are a riot. thanks for straightening me out. you should be so proud!

  • @digixplor

    And I’m a second rate, mediocre, self gratifying narcissist who has low standards and gives shamans a bad name?

    I’ll meet you at whatever level you come at me on.

    Remember, none of it’s real though, so relax. Clip your toenails or something.

    I’ve met and worked with many musicians of the type you’re portraying me as, I know the type. I just don’t think you’re getting what I was trying to share with you. Sorry we couldn’t connect on any understanding. Here’s a big bunch of love for you though. I would still like to see some of your art sometime.

    Peace out dude.

    @infanttyrone

    Yes, I caught dead floyd on PBS the other day. I thought, hey look, it’s us! Lot’s of people do floyd these days, it seems to be striking a nerve in young people for whatever energetic reason.

    Hi El Sea. Welcome to our Randi free zone.

    Have a nice day everyone. I’ll stop messing up this thread now.

  • Classic rock is the bomb forever. I saw some great artists over the years, including Boz Scaggs fronting for Jesse Colin Young in San Francisco, and Paul McCartney and Wings in Berlin. For energy and great music, original and cover, Tina Turner really is, as David Bowie once stated, the hottest spot in the universe. I was high and saw light for three days after that show, and I wasn’t taking anything.

    Robert Plant has been out of control socially for decades, guilty of things I won’t even repeat. I still love Led Zeppelin like it’s 1969.

  • you said it lwa…”music is just a tool to me”…yes I know…and that’s what’s wrong. it should be something sacred. fuckin’ poser.