Comments 104

  • Hours after spreading my half-breed grandma’s ashes she is already being forgotten. A house full of family twittering about the Oregon shooting and much bigger guns blasting away in Syria.

    I know I was key to artificially prolonging grandmas life. I did the normal American thing. Ignored our last connection to native roots. Automatic transactions sent money to keep in comfort with nursing care. She didn’t complain either. She liked the Discovery channel & Dr. Oz. She was in no rush to leave the artificial cocoon we built. It did not exist when she was born. Her mom was a real Cherokee who married a pioneer from Ireland. Extreme prejudice scared any pride out of depression era half-breed brides. Woolworth face powder rather than smallpox wool blankets. Progress to kitchen appliances. Cher in feathers on TV. Manifest destiny paving all the dirt roads to our fast track doom.

    ROBIN DATTA: I read your first comment on NBL JULY 2008. Yes I am happy to be the trash man. I picked up a mountain of litter in Costa Rica. Maybe someday you will learn to be kind. You might need the trash man. Help clean up a little. Try being nice. Nuclear material is also just another form of toxic waste. Guy McPherson has known me as long as you. He is always a kind person to me. Even in the very end having a slightly cleaner environment means something to Dolphins or Turtles. There are ways to be nice even though NTE is a mean subject.

    Costa Rica Sept 2001. Honestly I would have probably died down there if 9-11 did not happen. Despite a hundred bug bites on my butt, on the surface I looked okay when my Father sent a real ranger who insisted I return to D.C.

    Oct 2001 my computer training program started with a night in Quantico base hosp. Like the wild monkey man I was I had ringworm’s. A mild case of unresolved hepatitis and other jungle rot. I was 37 and prime of life tough so I thought I was very healthy living 100% natural, but in fact nature was taking it’s course slowly eating me alive. The way it should. Even dogs get worms. We are all pets of a system. All non native lifestyles are attached to artificial life support. Fracking, Fiber-optics, Facebook….”like” it or not.

    If you ever watch a bit of Naked & Afraid you can see most of us (who were not born in the Amazon) can’t live there for much longer than I did before the bugs and bacteria eat our teeth.

    On the Blue ridge above Cherokee NC Grandma Suy was born in a Smokey mountain log cabin. No records. No medical care. Way off the grid. Now Oak Ridge nuclear labs and brand new reactors are being built in the state next door. Like it or not the safety approvals have crossed my desk. This grid killing 200 species a day that has kept most all of us artificially alive. A FOX TV show “Last Man Alive” is shot in Tucson. They ignore McPherson. Somehow gas & electricity still work on a planet where no one is maintaining 446 nuclear reactors. Scripts effect perceptions of reality. We at the NRC have done a terrible job reminding the public that no reactor runs along safely all alone.

    My old grandma was mostly forgotten till we cremated her yesterday. Ashes into the winds of Hurricane Joaquin which would strike D.C. like Superstom Sandy – but natural forces do not hear me. They only feed on my emissions. Methane. A Contrail jet flight. An Indian funeral totem made in China.

    Lot’s of idols on the religiosity isle….but I can’t find a single God. Is God is a zillion atoms composing all of this? A unified field unconscious of everything. MO flowing & evolving. Is God dead or not yet conceived? Billions of Big bangs in a cosmic womb producing dark matter. Everything is mostly made of nothing. In the bubble we trust?

    Vast time spectrum’s might develop the right DNA codes..Codes of Genetic manipulation. Codes of conduct. Cyber codes. Launch codes. Modern smoke signals blanket our skies. Cloud our eyes to deeper reality. Radiation is not random. The age of reason gives us none.

  • Mark, what a powerful and poetic tribute to your grandmother.
    The Cherokee who remained in the mountains of north carolina were the ones who defied federal orders to march to Oklahoma on the Trail of Tears. You should be proud that your grandmother’s ancestors, and your ancestors, were among these brave individuals.

    I am glad you’re here posting. Your perspective is unique, to say the least.
    Thank you for your bravery.

  • Sorry for your loss Mark, and Wren’s is right, powerful tribute, Thank You

  • Hello Guy, Would you be so kind and mention in the interview that if we didn’t have a monopoly monetary system of bank-debt money with interest, climate change would have never happened? Nobody dares to talk about our money system. We don’t have a chance as a species on this planet if we continue doing what we are doing. Our money system is so out of date. Thank you.

  • Doug Bennett is a good interviewer….
    a full hour of good stuff….
    looking forward to it.

  • MeatTheTruth,

    The money system is a problem indeed. But it is no accident. It doesn’t work for the planet and 99.99% of its inhabitants. But it works for a few. The current money system exists to serve those who invented it and shaped it over the centuries… the sociopaths who run the world. And Guy has talked about sociopaths before.

    Here’s a relevant write-up from a blog called “the rise and fall of the human empire”:

    Even though I haven’t any “credentials“, I’ve done my due diligence in research on money, economics and monetary systems. I was once fairly certain that “fixing” the “economy” would “fix” the rest of the world’s problems. I have since come to learn that it just ain’t so. I spent a lot of time learning what money actually is and how it came to be warped into a system of usury and debt slavery.

    Even if a functional monetary system, one that was honest and just, was somehow forced into play against the prevailing power structure, it wouldn’t last long. No matter what form of economy was applied to the current dominant culture, nothing would improve long-term. No matter how equitable the system, it would soon be co-opted and perverted by the pathocracy until it was brought back in line with the agenda of the ruling class.

    It really isn’t all that hard to have a fair and just economy and monetary system, IF you first have a “civilisation” that is NOT a pathological dominator culture with the attendant “nations“, “governments” and ponerogenic hierarchies that are products of such a culture.

    Unfortunately we do NOT have such a civilsation. In fact, I would contend we do not have a civilisation at all. Furthermore we will NEVER have a civilisation, economy or monetary system that is just and equitable as long as essential psychopaths are free to join and rise to power in the various hierarchic institutions that run human civilisation.

  • Corporations dominate and control human society. Corporations are required to make profits at all times. That means endless growth. That means endless ecological destruction. So if you really do care about life on this planet the first essential step is to take control of human society away from corporations. Forever. Without that first step, endless ecological destruction continues until extinction. Ignoring this reality is suicidal folly.

  • A subject for the radio shows could be the coming Ice Age, whether it be a mini (1100-year-cycle) or the big one (100,000-year-cycle). Will it wreak it’s own havoc alongside the effects of Warming? Could they mitigate each other’s effects? Or could they cancel each other out?

  • Perhaps Guy has a view of the Stanford state-by-state plan to convert U.S. to 100% clean, renewable energy by 2050.

    Could the world’s entire energy infrastructure be converted to run on clean, renewable energy? What about China and India? How clean would the transition actually be? Wind turbines, solar panels and electric cars depend on rare earth metals to function, and to concert the entire world to renewables would take at least a thousand times the amount of rare earth metals that we are mining today. Would there be enough energy available to extract all those metals and would emissions skyrocket? More surface, seabed and Arctic mining of rare earth metals will also mean more environmental degradation.

  • No way Ray.

    Naomi Klein’s life’s story documentary came out recently. It was produced by her husband and funded by the Ford Foundation.
    I don’t want to watch this stupid commie bitch’s dumbass lies used to justify her child’s birth. She repeats the same fucking shit talking points over and over despite mounting evidence to the contrary. She loves to go and on about how fucking amazing Germany is, and how great it would be if we all acted like them.

    50% of Germany’s renewable energy comes from burning wood that is imported from all over the world, including Indonesia, where they kill elephants and orangutans to clear cuts forest to meet this so-called green energy demand.

    After the forests are clear cut, they plant palm oil trees. This palm oil is exported to Germany to be burnt in their Diesel cars. These are the same cars that Volkswagon wrote a software emissions cheating program. Forests are clear cut in the Amazon to grow soy oil which is also exported to Germany to burn in their diesel cars. One in four jobs in German is auto related. Using solar-wind power to produce cars defies common sense. Green jobs for several billion people is complete bullshit.

    The Germans also run a carbon credit scheme that is so riddled with fraudulent loopholes that is pays corporations to continue polluting.

    Germany went for solar-wind energy, not to save our climate, but to grow rich selling the lie of renewable energy. It takes 10 times the amount of intermittent energy to close 1 fossil fuel plant. Since wind turbines on produce 25% of their rated energy 90% of the time, Germany has to burn more of the dirtiest coal on the planet, Lignite, which a brown, sulphurous rock that smells like shit. They are relocating whole villages that sit on top of where they want to extend their open pit mining operations.

    Many believe that being a doomer means giving up, and they are right. It means giving up the bullshit fantasy that we are all going to live like hobbits in a magical kingdom. The U.S. just bombed a charity hospital in Afghanistan. They have bombed and killed so many people that refugees are overrunning Germany.

    Klein is a self-absorbed, lying bitch who flies around the world telling people that green makes her wets between the ears. She is funded by the Rockefellers to spearhead public acceptance of corporate-government control of all future carbon taxes.

    Check out the Mass Extinction Numbers link within the following link.

    Thermodynamics of Forest Driven Bio-diversity from collapse

  • ugottalvfugl:

    Succinct AND so perceptive – “The Libertarians and ‘free market capitalists’ claim that Soviet central planning does not work. Well, it has problems. But what you got in the USA was ‘central planning’ by robber barons, J P Morgan and Rockefeller and the like, which was and is, so much worse. Mafia central planning.

  • Be careful what you say when you sell beach front property (Agnotology: The Surge – 18).

  • Robert Callaghan,

    I must say that I agree with your rant about Naomi Klein and what you say about Germany.
    You’re well-informed because you’re not in denial and not afraid to look. And you’ve looked a lot.

    I like this in particular:

    “Many believe that being a doomer means giving up, and they are right. It means giving up the bullshit fantasy that we are all going to live like hobbits in a magical kingdom”

    Anyway, we’re not doomers, just people who can’t help but look.

    Anyway, I’m not stocky and would therefore make a bad hobbit :)

    Most people can’t cope with being so honest with themselves. And some are simply too stupid. It’s a real burden which they don’t want to carry. But once you have looked and know, you can’t go back, you have to carry. How to cope with that – we all have our own ways.
    All the same, have a good weekend.

    I feel like Wren and Guyo.

    It’s good to see your yes! as Wren says, very “poetic and powerful tribute” to your Gran here.

  • The call in show, Unspun radio, was the best last great extinction show ever. It’s a small-small word after all, we forgot we lived on earth long ago, soon Disney will close, and Mickey says “That’s all folks no mow” Out of balance and out of bounds, close the gates it’s shutting down, Now it’s methane controlling the weather, will we keep it all together, It’s the gas,gas,gas Love it while it las, las, lasts
    Thanks Prof. what a show

  • Great interview.

    Today, in Vancouver there is a seminar being put on by an organization called Whole Picture Thinking, and the title of the seminar is, “IS HOPE BULLSHIT?” A DEEP DEMOCRACY LEADERSHIP DIALOGUE
    Details here:

    People attending will have to pay $75.00 to find out the answer to this question. Too bad that they won’t have an opportunity to listen to this interview first. They might have been able to save themselves 75 bucks, and come to understand that the answer to the question, is of course, yes. :-)

  • In bold type from original post:

    “Next week we will be taking calls. That’s the whole show, so please call into the toll-free number: 888.874.4888. If you have questions and you’d rather not hear your own voice on the radio, feel free to post questions below. Otherwise, please do not comment below. Rather, post your comment on another thread.”

  • Guy, your honesty and succinct answers always come through clear.
    I enjoyed listening today to the interview.

  • The U.N. put Saudi-fucking-Arabia in charge of the Human Rights!
    The Saudis have recently bombed a wedding party in Yemen and already killed some 500 children there. They say they only fund moderate mercenaries (killers)in Syria. Only moderate killers need apply.

    Russia has already bombed ISIS headquarters with a bunker buster and after 60 bombing runs has caused 600 ISIS fighters to abandon their posts. Iran is readying massive numbers of ground troops for deployment there to head off the destruction of Hezbollah in Lebanon.

    World War 3 has already started. After economic collapse, the war will not be televised. Instead, we will watch a video of Naomi fucking Klein telling us how fucking righteous she is. She and her husband are the products of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. They are media whores. Thanks Canada.

  • Guy,

    Do you think you have influenced some mainstream climate scientists and because of that influence they have moved closer to you position on NTHE?

  • Guy, do you agree with William Ruddiman that the evidence is there to show that were it not for the dawn and progress of agriculture 8,000 years ago, the planet would presently be in the midst of an Ice Age? (See, Under A green Sky, Ward, pgs. 160-163).

  • Hi Guy,
    I listened to you on the radio today. The question I had was not asked, so I was hoping you could answer it here. Is there a website that is updated regularly regarding the release of methane around the world?

    Thank you so much for your work. I have been deeply influenced. I want to know the truth. Here in Far Northern California, I see the decimation by Sierra Pacific and other logging companies to our forests, to our streams and wildlife. Now the drought is killing even the largest pine and cedar trees. What you say matches what I am seeing. Including the temperature rise.It was over 80 degrees today (October 3rd) in the mountains. It should be around sixty five degrees this time of year.
    All good things,

  • Not to worry, it seems that it was all just a big spoof.

    “Professor Emiritus Hal Lewis Resigns from American Physical Society”

    “It is of course, the global warming scam, with the (literally) trillions of dollars driving it, that has corrupted so many scientists, and has carried APS before it like a rogue wave. It is the greatest and most successful pseudoscientific fraud I have seen in my long life as a physicist. Anyone who has the faintest doubt that this is so should force himself to read the ClimateGate documents, which lay it bare. (Montford’s book organizes the facts very well.) I don’t believe that any real physicist, nay scientist, can read that stuff without revulsion. I would almost make that revulsion a definition of the word scientist.”

  • I remain unconvinced that anything other than the effects of abrupt climate change itself (or nuclear war) will stop industrial civilization. And by effects I mean extremely catastrophic effects such as permanent droughts in the world’s grain belts that destroy most of the food supply in a few short years. A vague remark by Van Jones in a 2007 speech is pretty thin evidence for the fragility of industrial civilization. Industrial civilization has survived during world wars under years of massive bombardment which leveled cities.

  • Guy said something about a woman at CoastToCoastAM inquiring about booking him as a guest. It may have been Lisa Lyon, one of the two producers.

    I sent her an email stating that Guy is the most important guest the show could have at this time… If you agree, drop her a line at…

  • Guy,

    Could lab-grown or 3D printed synthetic food be the solution to the world’s food crisis? No more problems with chemical fertilisers and pesticides and crop failures. The whole oil-dependent agriculture would simply go away. No more greenhouse gas emissions from meat production. No more killing millions of pigs in factories.

    “The body can live on sawdust and glue. You should shoot all these nutritionists on sight and at sight! These commercials sell you all kind of things. The body needs some energy, and that energy you can have from anything you eat. Sawdust is enough for it, without the health food and vitamin C, or your brown rice and seaweed… I am surviving without eating vitamins. I don’t eat vegetables. I don’t eat fruit. I don’t eat brown rice. I have survived seventy three years.” – -U.G.

  • rayrose

    Since I couldn’t figure out how to click directly on your link and make my fairly long message deliver, I just cut and pasted the address link into my regular email and sent it. I hope others will participate. I’m sure that even a three or four word message to Lisa will work. Thanks!

  • Here is what a young overseas undergraduate student had on her screen next to me when I sat down:


    Does Business need to be Moral?

    “Individual ambition serves the common good” Adam Smith The father of Economics, author of Wealth of Nations, 1776.

    “The most important single central fact about a free market is that no exchange takes place unless both parties benefit”, Milton Freedman 20th C freemarket economist.


    Go figure? ;)

    They are still teaching the freemarket economics here in Afraidia folks, no relief downunder, I’m sorry to report.

    ‘Icehouse – Great Southern Land’

    Regardless of some of the people here, it still remains the Great Southern Land, same as it has been for many tens of thousands of years.

    Be not Afraid, love is all there is.

    Best to all as the human headline reduces this rock to little-water-planet-war-III-central.

    What a horror.

  • More feel good data bits…

    ‘Solid Rock by Goanna’

    Artleads, Sabine…

    Feeling teary, hope you all are ok? Never met, never seen your smiles, your kitchen table nor had a warm beverage together, but, you feel like some kinda kin, as well as Guy and some others here, some past by like kathy C.

    Feelin like the end is coming- mass crazy war shit, so if that comes, it’s been nice to hear your thoughts over the few years past.

    ‘Current stand – Kids in the kitchen’

    Keep lovin folks

    Best to all

    OzMan out

  • 40 years ago, after nutritionists analyzed children’s cereal, the consensus was that the cardboard box that contained the cereal was more nutritious than the cereal itself. Cardboard boxes are made from cellulose. Nowadays, they put the cellulose right into the cereal because it’s cheaper than wheat.

    I toned down the venom in my Naomi Klein comments and posted them on Truthdig, who dug a hole and buried my truth. Then I posted them on Truthout, who kicked my truth out. Although this site is bat-shit, belfry crazy, it does allow freedom of inanity. I posted my rejected comments on the reddit collapse page here:

    This Changes Nothing: How Naomi Klein Lies from collapse

  • You can sit with the knowledge of NTE in a sludge of venom or a pool of beauty. Today I choose beauty with the help of music. Don’t get me wrong —–I’m in the sludge a lot!

    Shortly after she performed this song—- posted below—– Eva Cassidy was diagnosed with cancer and given just months to live.
    For me, she is an example of someone who pursued a life of excellence in the face of death at age 33. Even though she knew she was dying she continued to share her gifts with the world. At a benefit concert 6 weeks before she died she hoisted herself on a stool (with the help of a large amount of morphine) and sang the Louis Armstrong song, What a Wonderful World.
    Beauty, love, creativity poured out of Eva Cassidy as if these intangible things go on forever . . . as if they are direct links to the music of the universe. Hearing her music . .. her interpretation of songs convinces me that they do and they are.

    Never cared much for this song until I heard Eva Cassidy sing it:

  • Correction to above post since I am a stickler for musical facts:
    Should read—- “the Bob Thiele and George David Weiss song that Louis Armstrong made famous, What a Wonderful World”

  • I just posted an article to both Facebook and DemocraticUnderground. You can read the whole article at the link, but here are some excerpts to whet your appetite:

    This article gives the background and explanation of what is, to my mind at least, the single most important piece of work I’ve done in the last decade. It is the graphical summary of what has happened to the the total weight of the world’s large land animals (my preferred technical term is “animal biomass”) over the last 12,000 years, from before the dawn of agriculture to the beginning of last week.

    To kick things off, I will happily admit to being a graph geek. For me, graphs have a touch of scientific magic. They are a vehicle on which dry, raw numbers can slide into our brain through the open portal of its enormous visual processing capacity. Our visual cortex translates what we see, and feeds the results simultaneously into our intellectual processing circuits and our emotional limbic system.

    A well-chosen graphic is therefore probably the best way to communicate the visceral significance of what I discovered as I probed three interconnected questions: How much of the world’s biomass consists of land animals? How is that animal biomass apportioned between wild animals, domesticated animals and human beings? And how have this biomass and its proportions changed over the last 12,000 years?

    The graph tells that enormous story with great economy, and does so with as much certainty as an amateur like me can achieve using publicly available information. I find its message and implications to be absolutely breathtaking.

    (The graph goes here, I don’t know how to post a still image on the blog)


    Resting on this chain of logic, the first column of the graph shows the wild animal biomass in 10,000 BCE being the same as the total of wild and domesticated animals plus humans in the center column: the total was about 300 million tonnes (MT). I would expect this total value to have remained approximately constant from 10,000 BCE until around 1900, though its makeup would have gradually changed as human numbers and activity increased.

    In 10,000 BCE those 300 million tonnes were almost entirely made up of wild animals, but by 1900 the biomass of wild animals had dropped to about 50 MT to make ecological room for the growing number of humans and their domesticated animals. The reduction happened because humans appropriated the habitat of wild animals for our own use, a process known in ecological science as “competitive exclusion”. In the process we hunted out many of those wild animal populations, resulting in a 12,000 year wave of extinctions that continues today.

    The Situation Today

    After 1900 fossil fuels began to change the face of agriculture, with major consequences for the expansion of the human population and our domesticated animals.

    Today, late in 2015, there are approximately 7.3 billion people on the planet, with an estimated average weight of 58 kg each. The resulting human biomass of about 425 MT is one-third greater than the biomass of all the land animals that existed just 12,000 years ago. It is also over five times the human biomass in 1900.

    But as enormous as that number is, it pales in comparison to the biomass of our domesticated animals.

    In order to get a reliable estimate for the biomass of domestic animals, I consulted the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO). Their database contains the number of all domestic animals on Earth for each year since 1961, broken down by the type of animal. With those numbers in hand, I searched for the average weight of each animal type, and simply multiplied that by the number of each animal in the FAO database for 2013 – the latest year for which the FAO has reliable records. Oh yes, I also included an estimate for cats and dogs, which the FAO does not record.

    The total biomass of domestic animals comes out to 1400 MT, which eight times greater than it was in 1900. It should come as no surprise that the majority of this enormous mass consists of cows. Almost 900 MT, or 63% of the total weight of all livestock on Earth is cattle. That is also more than twice the weight of all human beings alive today.

    The last question I had to answer was the biomass of wild animals today. That was more problematic, because there is no organization like the FAO that counts wild animals. Besides, they are hard to count anyway because they’re all out in the wild. To arrive at an answer I took an indirect approach.

    I started with a set of on-line lists of population estimates for wild animals, retrieved from Wikipedia. Then I searched the net for average weight estimates for each type of animal, and multiplied the population number by the average weight to get the total biomass for each animal. I was careful to include mice and rats as well as elephants and kangaroos.

    When that exercise was complete, I had come up with a rough estimate of 11.5 MT of wild animals. Next I had to decide how accurate I thought this number was. It’s certain that some species were missed in the tables I consulted, but I have no way of knowing how many, or which ones. Also, the last thing I want is to create an opportunity for those of a “denialist” persuasion to accuse me of underestimating the number of wild animals just to make a point. So I made an arbitrary decision to raise the total by about 75% to 20 MT. The actual number is very likely to be somewhere between 12 and 20 MT.

    My final estimate of 20 MT indicates that the total amount of animal wildlife on the planet has dropped by 60% or more over the last 115 years. This is consistent with the 2014 report by the World Wildlife Fund that the amount of wildlife has declined by half since 1970.


    The implications of this graph are quite serious, to put it mildly.

    It is clear that our use of fossil fueled machinery in farming has exploded the amount of livestock – and in consequence the number of people – to a degree unparalleled in the history of the Earth, and has done so in the blink of a geological eye. And of course all the fossil fuel that has gone into farming has released CO2 into the atmosphere (hello, climate change!), along with all the CO2 released as we broke new land for agricultural purposes.

    Even more serious is the implication that if the world’s fossil fuel supplies were to falter even slightly (hello, Peak Oil!) then livestock and human populations could fall rapidly as a result.

    But perhaps the most serious implication is the damage that has been done to the web of life itself. In just 12,000 years, we have reduced the wild animal biomass by close to 95%. In its place we have overrun the planet with enormous quantities of less than 20 species of domesticated animals – including ourselves. The loss of biodiversity that this radical shift represents should be causing the ecologically-minded to wake up at night in a cold sweat. We have no way of knowing when some species that is critical to our survival (hello, honeybees?) might succumb to the relentless pressure of human competition, and blink out of existence.

    Stock market bubbles have nothing on this bubble of human and animal life we have created in the biosphere. We are now in an extremely precarious situation – any slight ecological hiccup could easily knock the pins out from under the whole gigantic, fragile edifice.

    So what can we do about it? Obviously, three candidates are population control, going vegan and changing our farming practices. Each has its problems, and they are not small ones.

    Population control is a political “third rail” issue, and politicians won’t go there until the situation is far more desperate than it is now. Veganism is going to be a very tough sell to 7.3 billion people, many of them in developing countries where the demand for meat is growing as a result of their increasing affluence. Changing our farming practices would improve the overall quality of our food supply and perhaps reduce its carbon intensity, but will do little or nothing to directly reduce the numbers of either people or livestock.

    My other major concern is that we may be close to the peak of the bubble. We can’t say that for certain of course, but the longer any bubble continues to grow, the more likely it becomes that it will run into a disruption of one sort or another. Climate change, economic collapse, resource depletion, warfare and epidemics are at the top of my personal list of probabilities. With a bubble this large and complex, a small pin-prick might be enough to start a cascade of failures racing through the system. In my opinion such a disruption may be no more than 20 years away, and perhaps somewhat less.

    While we still have some time, we each need to do what we can to secure our personal situations and our communities, and to encourage others to think about doing the same. And perhaps, if you are so inclined, a heartfelt prayer or two might not be such a bad idea.

  • Good work Paul.

    Sometimes I think I am losing more of my mind than normal because I have to scrounge (hunt and gather) links to support my idea of how really fucked we are. But, like persistence hunting, I finally got positive feedback about our energy problems here:

    The great hope for a quick and sweeping transition to renewable energy is wishful thinking By Vaclav Smil

    “Energy Revolution? More like a Crawl” Youtube speech by Vaclav Smil

  • In 1990, world fossil fuel use was 90% of total usage.
    In 2015, after 25 years, fossil fuel use is at 87%.
    This means if we tripled our efforts, we can reduce fossil fuels by up to 10% in another 25 years. Energy transitions will take longer going forward because of the expanding baseline of energy demand and the fact that intermittent energy density is so much lower.

    Contrast those facts with the fact that the British Foreign Office says that because mega-droughts and global heating are reinforcing feedback loops for each other, then their models predict civilization’s collapse by 2040. From 1948-1970, 10% of earth was in drought, from 1970-2015, 20% of earth is in drought. This is a non-linear synergy of feedback loops.

    This is why Klein and McKibben make me puke. They act like they are God’s gift to humanity peering down at us from vast intellectual heights. I cut grass in trailer park for a living. I ain’t so fucking smart, but even I can see they’re full of shit.

  • A question. If the international nuclear fusion project – known as Iter, demonstrates that it is possible to build commercially-viable fusion reactors after 2050, could it save the world? However, climate change would still be here, and what about the other issues – food, water, dying oceans, mass species extinction, declining resources, unbridled consumption, etc.?

    In other words, would an unlimited supply of clean, cheap fusion energy be the Holy Grail? Or would it be the ultimate disaster?

  • @Ray Batman

    I do believe you already know the answer to your question.

  • Climate chaos is NOT the sole direct driver of mass extinction.
    Human crop and pasture lands caused 80% of land vertebrate extinctions.
    Cheap carbon-free energy would only ensure mass extinction.

    Collapse Data Cheat Sheet from collapse

  • Unless something completely beyond the bounds of all current scientific knowledge occurs, humans will never record atmospheric carbon dioxide lower than the current level.

    406ppm next northern spring?

    More overheating; more climate chaos; more droughts and floods of greater intensity; higher ocean acidity; more catastrophic failure from mendacious politicians.

    Back in the 1960s most of the ‘problems’ had been identified and ameliorating action could have been taken. However, certain very influential people decided they didn’t want amelioration, and got their way.

    The downhill slide, which commenced in the 1970s, continues.

  • Oil-Qaeda wants to and does spend billions to blame everything from amoeba to farmers for what they have done.

    They have many psychologists on their payroll, teaching them how to trick the unaware.

    Don’t go down fantasy Highway 61, leave it in the ground instead (Proof of Concept – 4).

  • Robert.

    ‘In 1990, world fossil fuel use was 90% of total usage.

    In 2015, after 25 years, fossil fuel use is at 87%.

    This means if we tripled our efforts, we can reduce fossil fuels by up to 10% in another 25 years. Energy transitions will take longer going forward because of the expanding baseline of energy demand and the fact that intermittent energy density is so much lower.’

    In 2015 the world was both burning a lot more fossil fuels than in 1990 and using lower quality fuels, implying that emissions were both higher overall and higher per unit of delivered energy.

    Further to the point you made, steel, concrete, asphalt, plastics, copper and a whole host of other requirements for industrial civilisation CANNOT BE MANUFACTURED using renewable energy.

    Fe2O3 plus C goes to Fe plus CO

    Fe2O3 plus CO goes to Fe plus CO2

    CaCO3 plus heat goes to CaO plus CO2

    Shutting down the blast furnaces that manufacture steel, car factories, aircraft factories, ship yards, cement works etc. is the ONLY way to effectively tackle the emissions predicament. And we know none of that is going to happen until the global economic system collapses.

    I’m sure practically everyone here already knows, but for the sake of newcomers, collapse of current economic arrangements provides the only possible route out of the emissions predicament -and it is almost certainly too late for even that route now.

    In the meantime, (in other words for as long as the present economic-financial system continues to function) the plan provided by the mendacious leaders of the world is to INCREASE fossil fuel dependence (and hence INCREASE CO2 emissions), thereby making everything that matters worse.

  • Paul,
    v.good comment and graph. I would just like to add a bit more detail
    to the paragraph beginning’ It is clear that our use of fossil fueled machinery has
    exploded the amount of livestock…and humans’
    The main factor enabling the ballooning of the livestock and human population since 1950 has been the Haber-Bosch process.
    If we were reliant on the natural nitrogen cycle,the maximum human population that could be supported on the land area now used for our food supply is around three billion. That estimate is from Vaclav Smil and others. Smil’s book on the Haber-Bosch process ‘Enriching the Earth’,is good source for detailed information.
    The H-B process supplies the ‘fixed’nitrogen needed by industrial agriculture, and of course that fixed nitrogen is an essential requirement for the growth of plants and the synthesis of amino acids by plants,which in turn are the ‘Building blocks’ for the proteins in our bodies.
    The H-B process is very energy intensive,(supplied by fossil fuels) and requires methane. Smil should really have titled his book ‘Devastating the Earth’,because as well as being the main factor enabling the ballooning of the human and livestock population,the great increase in ‘fixed’ nitrogen entering the nitrogen cycle has caused enormous problems,from the eutrophication (combined with phosphorous from fertilizer run-off and soil erosion) of rivers,to huge ocean dead zones,to increasing atmospheric nitrogen dioxide which increases climate disruption.

  • @ Paul

    You finish with:

    “While we still have some time, we each need to do what we can to secure our personal situations and our communities, and to encourage others to think about doing the same.”

    I think you’re being rather loose with the meaning of the word “secure”, because if such a thing was even possible, then honestly what’s the threat?

    How does one go about ‘securing their personal situation’ that isn’t solely dedicated to sustaining a reliable food source in a post-collapse scenario?

  • Further to my comment above,David Pimental’s (‘Food,Energy and Society)energy analysis of industrial agriculture has shown that when the energy requirements of producing,processing and transporting food are included,industrial agriculture consumes around ten energy units(supplied
    by fossil fuels) for every energy unit of food produced.
    The energy analysis of a Papuan highlander growing sweet potatoes as their main food source shows that their system yields around twelve energy units
    for each energy unit of input.(from muscle power,no fossil fuel input)
    Thus in energy terms,their system is around 120 times more efficient than
    industrial agriculture.
    Probably most readers here have been taught in high school or later that industrial agriculture is an efficient process. A good example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. In terms of man hours of labour required per quantum of food produced,industrial agriculture is more efficient than ‘primitive’ agriculture,but as the energy analysis I have mentioned above shows,’primitive’ agriculture is actually more efficient in energetic terms.
    It is not an exaggeration to describe industrial agriculture as a system for converting fossil fuel(oil) into food.
    Now,let’s do a thought experiment as to what happens when the oil supply keeping the bubble of industrial agriculture inflated ends…….

  • @david higham,

    I’ve changed that sentence to: “It is clear that our use of fossil fuels in agricultural machinery and fertilizers has exploded the amount of livestock – and in consequence the number of people – to a degree unparalleled in the history of the Earth, and has done so in the blink of a geological eye.”


    The fact that I didn’t include a definition of “secure” was deliberate. I’m not into being prescriptive, or telling people what to think or do. “Secure” in this case could mean something as simple as getting to know their neighbours better or creating a mildly extended family by having multiple generations move into the same house, etc. “Secure” is going to mean something quite different to a Bolivian peasant than to an American office worker.

    All I wanted to do with that sentence is to provide a pointer back to the immediate and personal. If that means stocking beans and ammo for one person, learning flint knapping or gardening to another, or improving their meditation skills for someone else, that’s all fine with me. I’ve told them what sort of time-line they may be working to. People get to make up their own minds how they’re going to handle it.

    I’ve uploaded a PDF of the article on my Dropbox:

  • david higham

    Professor Albert Bartlett described modern industrial agriculture as a system for converting oil into food.

    You point4ed out that present high level of food production, although grossly inefficient, is dependent on industrial fixation of nitrogen.

    I draw your attention to phosphate, mentioned many times in the past but not recently.

    For many decades, commencing in the 1920s, grass growth in NZ (and elsewhere) was stimulated by the addition of superphosphate -phosphate rock which had been treated with sulphuric acid to increase its solubility. ‘Local’ sources of phosphate rock, primarily Christmas Island and Nauru, were rapidly depleted, leading to boom-bust economies there, and eventually the need to obtain phosphate rock from more distant locations, such as Florida. All mining and transport was (and still is) facilitated by diesel.

    The milling of phosphate rock down to a fine powder suitable for reaction with sulphuric acid is an enormously energy intensive process. That energy was traditionally obtained from a generator linked to the sulphur burner which converted sulphur into SO2, an step in the production of SO3 and then H2SO4. Once all actual deposits of economically viable sulphur had been depleted, sulphur was obtained from ‘sour’ natural gas, and transported around the world using you know what.

    Livestock farming and sale of meat in a different location implies removal of phosphate from the grazing location. Hence the need for constant replacement.

    Modern sewage systems exacerbate the loss of nutrient problem by depositing nutrients in human waste (N,P and K) into seas and oceans.

    Then there is the matter of potassium, another essential element for high yields. This too is mined in one part of the world and transported using you know what to maintain fertility in regions where industrial agriculture is practised.

    Every aspect of the modern industrial agricultural system is unsustainable with respect to resources and energy, and generates inordinate emissions. However, it does make enormous short-term profits for corporations and money-lenders, and will therefore persist a little longer.

  • Well, if the Earth is already ruined beyond repair, could colonization of Titan, Saturn’s largest moon, be the solution – as a new, urgent Manhattan project?

    Titan possesses an abundance of all the elements necessary to support life. The atmosphere contains plentiful nitrogen and methane, and strong evidence indicates that liquid methane exists on the surface. Evidence also indicates the presence of liquid water and ammonia under the surface, which are delivered to the surface by volcanic activity. Water can easily be used to generate breathable oxygen and nitrogen is ideal to add buffer gas partial pressure to breathable air (it forms about 78% of Earth’s atmosphere).Nitrogen, methane and ammonia can all be used to produce fertilizer for growing food.

  • Thanks,Kevin.
    Anyone who wants further in-depth analysis of Kevin’s points
    should read ‘Feed or Feedback’ by Duncan Brown. Brown quips that cities and
    the flaws of industrial agriculture are the main reasons that our civilisation will inevitably ‘go down the tube.’

  • Ray, pull the other one.

    Titan receives just about 1% of the amount of sunlight Earth gets.[1] The average surface temperature is about 98.29 K (−179 °C, or −290 °F). At this temperature water ice has an extremely low vapor pressure, so the atmosphere is nearly free of water vapor. … Titan’s atmosphere periodically rains liquid methane and other organic compounds onto the moon’s surface.” (wikipedia)

    Not sure what kind of jag you are on but I, for one, remain unappreciative.

  • Ray ….. just in case you’re NOT a troll, I’ll give you my own opinion of your idea:

    The reason the earth is “ruined beyond repair” is the humans on it.

    Humans on Titan would also ruin Titan beyond repair.

  • Apologies for the additional post but this is quite important.

    Truth out, as in truth go away, get out of here, as opposed to truth out in the open, highlights ‘the problem’. And having correctly identified misinformation and cherry-picking etc. by those who deny global meltdown, goes on to publish different misinformation:

    ‘Today, using existing technologies we can remove 50 parts per million of carbon dioxide from our atmosphere and literally end the climate pollution problem for $21 trillion. This is how much the United States spent on health care and the military from 2000 to 2009. (14)

    New, field-proven technologies, now at $200 per ton, once fully industrialized, will remove the same 50 parts per million of carbon dioxide for $20 per ton or less. This is a relatively tiny $2.1 trillion. (15)’

    As I have said many times, there is probably nothing worse than an engineer.

    ‘Bruce Melton is a professional engineer, environmental researcher, filmmaker, author and CEO of the Climate Change Now Initiative in Austin, Texas.’

    It’s a pity it has to be this way. The truth -that the only possible solution to the multiple predicament is to shut down the entire global industrial system (and it’s probably too late anyway)- is just too hard for the masses and those who hope to profit from the on-going catastrophe.

    By the way, I scanned through Elizabeth Kolbert’s ‘Sixth Great Extinction’ for the first time this morning and noticed there was not one graph of atmospheric CO2 or temperature abnormality.

    Every day that p[asses it becomes ever clearer that there is no hope, long term.

  • @Caroline, nice selection.

    @babajingo, my muppet song was actually offered as sarcasm, but I’m glad you liked it. :-)

    @LWA, pretty excellent rant. Outside of the woo, I agree with a hell of a lot of what you said. digixplor (I recall Guy saying.. someone correct me if I am wrong) is a known troll who has used more than one nickname on here, which I think is pretty uncool. So don’t take him (I assume it is a him) to heart.

    It’s tough to expect the folks on here to be super-human, though, just because they now know and accept something about the way the world works that other people don’t. Lotsa smart people know a lot of stuff but that doesn’t make them immune from being assholes or suck-ups or cowards or racists or hypocrites or guilty of whatever other human failing.

    As elsewhere, there are good days and bad days here on the beach of doom. I find there’s usually at least a couple of comments worth the price of admission. Take care and I hope you come back in the future if you have something to share. I’m happy to see the return of folks like OzMan and Daniel. It really is the only place on the web to openly talk about this stuff without being censored, which is why some of us keep coming back despite the noise.

  • Oz Man,

    Thanks for the thought. I’m in the middle of a studio tour. For various reasons, inside the house isn’t suitable to show pictures–especially the way I work. So, I’m showing in an open carport that only has posts supporting a roof. We have a weathered wood fence as well (that I love), and I put some lesser work on it. But then it’s been raining and gusty, with gusts, I imagine, up to 50 mph or so. All my work is fragile and done on discarded (able) paper or cardboard, with very little thought to standing up to abuse. So the process of patching up torn pieces and blocking the wind has taken precedence over much else. I’m not complaining really. I love the challenge. We don’t hear from you much these days. What are you working on?

  • It’s all about food and energy. As long as they exist in ample quantities we will have a substantial industrial society. As long as food and energy are still coming into industrial centers there will be no collapse. Only the when global warming produces the megadroughts that burn away all the grain belts of the world permanently destroying human food supplies will industrial society end. Only when grain harvests are dramatically reduced can we even begin to talk about the end of civilization or extinction.

    The rest is noise. The money system, Hurricane Katrina, polar ice, sea level rise, critters going extinct, eight year old remarks from Van Jones or from your favorite scientist, all are meaningless with regard to the immediate continuation of industrial society as long as the food and energy supplies are coming in.

    So we’re just going to have to wait, a lot longer than six weeks, while the owners of this planet and their corporations lead us along the continuing path of destruction they have set for us.

  • Secure, as in a building:

    Air Force:
    Sign a lease to use it for office space.

    Have someone lock all the windows, doors and other entrances.

    Post a detachment of soldiers for sentry duty / guard duty.

    Marine Corps:
    Send in a unit to attack and take down the building with mortars, grenades, machine guns, etc.

  • @ Kevin

    You state:

    “Every day that passes it becomes ever clearer that there is no hope, long term.”

    Its statements like this that makes me question who you imagine you’re writing to.

    Here’s what I don’t get about you Kevin: The concept of ‘hopium’, isn’t just accepting the absence of hope, but that it’s only ever been an illusion; a private projection we’ve long been addicted. Sometimes those projections are shared by others and they become collective, but they never stop being illusionary.

    Hopium has been thoroughly discussed here at length, yet you continue to act surprised at the unfolding state of affairs. This is a space where we discuss the reality of probable NTE……of course there is no hope. How many people do you think would be here if we thought otherwise?

    Again, acceptance of NTE transgresses everything. Has the sum total of your comments at NBL been little more than you finally coming around to accepting the title of Guy’s seminal essay “We’re Done”? For anyone who still has hopium coursing through their veins simply can’t comprehend it.

    I can’t say what’s at the center of this rotted onion, but whatever it is, it’s far from anything that resembles hope.

    Maybe you’ve just been dancing to the beat of your own drum failing to see you’ve been sitting in a drum circle all along, but boy it’s strange what each of us hold onto even in the darkest recesses of doom.

    I wonder what I’m unknowingly still clinging to.

  • @ Daniel.

    I think my main problem is having grandchildren aged between 4 and 14.

    Somehow NTHE around 2060 seems more acceptable than around 2050 or 2040.

    Being ill and being unable to do much physically leaves me with too much time for thinking.

  • “I wonder what I’m unknowingly still clinging to.”

    The “I”: without it there is no clinging, only the Unknown and Unknowable Knower.

  • GUY: My question for your upcoming radio show would be “If you could address the entire Paris Climate Conference this December but you were only given 5 minutes, what would you tell the gathered masses? What do you consider to be the most important part of your presentation? Or would you try to summarize the whole shebang in those few minutes?”

    p.s. to Daniel: I actually do have hope, just not for long term human survival. There are many things to have hope for, including the hope that as many species survive this extinction as possible, and that life on planet earth doesn’t just completely get snuffed out. But even if it does, well… meh. The sun’s gonna supernova someday anyway.

  • babajingo Says:

    GUY: What do you consider to be the most important part of your presentation?

    Didn’t you listen to the posted presentation?

    He said we have between six weeks and one to two decades ‘till extinction.

    That’s got be be the most important part don’t ya think?

  • THC Geek Baffle Gab

    Phosphate and potassium are 2 absolutely essential, irreplaceable fertilizers that cannot be manufactured or substituted for in nature by peoplekind. We can recycle them, but we don’t because we serve exploitive extraction corporate services and their government paid exploitive extraction protection public services.

    Debt is the promise of future energy at some one dollar per milliwatt.
    We have promised more energy than we will deliver. But, every exploitive extraction operation will return less resource per unit of energy. It will takes more and more energy to extract more and more resources. Energy costs for basically free planetary services will go up. Air, food and water will cost more.

    People are energy illiterate, even Engineers forget energy basics. They don’t understand rising energy demand while we transition to a lower power density from an intermittent energy source that will cost more future energy in times of shortages. Solar and wind are planned obsolecence, consumer products that will have to be replaced in one generation. This is mathematically so incredibly mad as to defy sanity. This is when some smart ass will quote, “Should our grasp exceed our reach?” or some crazier bullshit like that.

    Once investors understand bond haircuts are for real, derivatives and Insurance constructs will collapse like cards in the face of mathematical energy extinction.

    Hopefully this will happen before food and water shortages begin in earnest up the exponential curve of extractive negative energy returns on investment. In other words, I hope financial collapse happens before resource collapse. But, what I’m really getting at is that I’m trying to warn you that you don’t have time to wait for global warming and mass extinction in 20 years. You have to reduce harm to your family now. Start incremental preparations.

    My Naomi Klein rant was buried by TruthDig and tossed out by TruthOut. Reddit deleted my post with no explanation until someone tried to post a lengthy reply.

    This link was restored after comment from a reddit moderator.

    This Changes Nothing: How Naomi Klein Lies from collapse

    This was the response to the original post and probably resulted in restoration of the deleted original post.

    My Review of *This Changes Everything* from collapse

    Since I’m a vain, shallow, egomaniac — I really care about stuff like this.

  • Aprtleads

    Nice to hear what you are u r up to.

    Why r u painting masterpieces on paper and cardboard, and r u selling them in your outdoor studio, or just letting the world have them?

    I am also making art, or artifice, all depends on tat POV Obwan spoke of to Luke all those years ago….long long ago.

    Just surviving being homeless now.

    Living in the bush and using library computers, that type of thing. Haven’t felt the need to catch a kangaroo yet.

    Lots going on in Afraidia right now, and I’m guessing we will be fellow countrymen quite soon.

    Link below says it all.

    ‘Forget the TPP – Wikileaks Releases Documents from the Equally Shady “Trade in Services Agreement,” or TISA’

    ” If it sounds complicated, it is. The important point is that this trade agreement contains a crucial discussion of governments’ abilities to meaningfully protect civil liberties. And it is not being treated as a human rights discussion. It is being framed solely as an economic issue, ignoring the implications for human rights, and it is being held in a classified document that the public is now seeing months after it was negotiated, and only because it was released through WikiLeaks. ”

    Other than that, moseying along. Heat wave over SE Afraidia today and tomorrow. 35 C. Bushfires in the South. So I just gotta say, my time here on NBL did prepare me for that.

    Cheers ;)

  • No one ever accused me of being too friendly on account of my full spectrum introspective assburgers autism and social turrets.

    In other words, I’m not the sharpest or quickest tool in the shed.

    I’m 57 years old and noticed the same came up from the east today.

    I also just only noticed that, over the last few years, my anti-Naomi Klein comments resulted in sure-fire editorial omission ban from debate threads.

    Their funders want to suck the zombie’s life-blood matrix. In collapse of empire, the only corporate tax grabs remain of the public carcass.

    I only cut grass in a trailer park for a living but know a bloody big shit storm when I see it. The green labelled “bio-degradable” cloth tissues always clog the shit pumps. I’m gonna call my next dog Rotor or Rooter.

  • Naomi Klien speaks the truth, finally: This morning on Democracy Now she said, “In Canada, we are Canadians.”

  • Six weeks to maybe two decades, I thought Guy said two weeks, anyway wouldn’t you have to agree this is what it’s all about now! If two weeks is the downside then as we live thru that then each two weeks after, it’s more likely things unravel! And the upside two decades, if the warming don’t get us the sea rise will. What about this economy? Do you listen to all the money experts, not just the gold bugs, things are unwinding as fast as the earth is dying, Did you here about that ship that just went down in the Bermuda triangle, We are on it and our Captain (the elite ) is sailing into the eye of the storm towards the Bermuda triangle. Jump into the Love lifebook and take it like a human!

  • The innocent virgin bombed a hospital.

    It had Doctors without borders and patients inside (The Virgin MOMCOM – 10).

    Isn’t virgin innocence grand?

    No shame, no guilt.

    Gotta luv it.

    “There is no innocence without blood.”

    “There will be innocence !”

  • This kind of shit has a way of scrounging out the hopium hidden deep within:

  • lidia…you can call me a troll, or anything else you want…why should I care? that’s certainly one thing I learned here. I wasn’t trying to fool anyone with those pseudonym’s and didn’t think I was…just experimenting with writing devices…’cause I enjoy it! sorry you didn’t get it. sorry I didn’t make it clear. I no longer break the 2 post rule…so technically I’m still a gnome. dredd can call me psychopath all day long too! bounces right off my pointy little gnome head. lwa should thank me. I told him the truth. you don’t learn anything from having your ass kissed…except ,that you like it.

  • I mean, yeah we may bomb the occasional ‘Doctors without borders’ hospitals full of women, kids & war refugees, we may sometimes meddle just a little in the affairs of countries resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, we may continue to drill for oil that we know is going to kill us… BUT, at least my beer fridge will now tell my smart phone that it is time to buy more beer. Praise Jesus & god bless capitalism!!!

  • from “Fables in Slang,” George Ade, circa 1900


    The Learned Phrenologist sat in his Office surrounded by his Whiskers.

    Now and then he put a Forefinger to his Brow and glanced at the Mirror to make sure that he still resembled William Cullen Bryant.

    Near him, on a Table, was a Pallid Head made of Plaster-of-Paris and stickily ornamented with small Labels. On the wall was a Chart showing that the Orangoutang does not have Daniel Webster’s facial angle.

    “Is the Graft played out?” asked the Learned Phrenologist, as he waited. “Is Science up against it or What?”

    Then he heard the fall of Heavy Feet and resumed his Imitation. The Door opened and there came into the Room a tall, rangy Person with a Head in the shape of a Rocky Ford Cantaloupe.

    Aroused from his Meditation, the Learned Phrenologist looked up at the Stranger as through a Glass, darkly, and pointed to a Red Plush Chair.

    The Easy Mark collapsed into the Boarding-House Chair and the Man with more Whiskers than Darwin ever saw stood behind Him and ran his Fingers over his Head, Tarantula-Wise.

    “Well, well!” said the Learned Phrenologist “Enough Benevolence here to do a family of Eight. Courage? I guess yes! Dewey’s got the same kind of a Lump right over the Left Ear. Love of Home and Friends—like the ridge behind a Bunker! Firmness—out of sight! Reverence—well, when it comes to Reverence, you’re certainly There with the Goods!”

    “Conscientiousness, Hope, and Ideality — the Limit! And as for Metaphysical Penetration—oh, Say, the Metaphysical Penetration, right where you part the Hair—oh, Laura! Say, you’ve got Charles Eliot Norton whipped to a Custard. I’ve got my Hand on it now. You can feel it yourself, can’t you?”

    “I can feel Something,” replied the Human Being, with a rapt Smile.

    “Wit, Compassion and Poetic Talent—right here where I’ve got my Thumb—a Cinch! I think you’ll run as high as 98 per cent on all the Intellectual Faculties. In your Case we have a Rare Combination of Executive Ability, or the Power to Command, and those Qualities of Benevolence and Ideality which contribute to the fostering of Permanent Religious Sentiment. I don’t know what your present Occupation is, but you ought to be President of a Theological Seminary. Kindly slip me Three Dollars before you Pass Out.”

    The Tall Man separated himself from Two Days’ Pay and then went out on the Street and pushed People off the Sidewalk, He thought so well of Himself.

    Thereafter, as before, he drove a Truck, but he was always glad to know that he could have been President of a Theological Seminary.

    Moral: A good Jolly is worth Whatever you Pay for it.

  • Oz Man,

    “Why r u painting masterpieces on paper and cardboard, and r u selling them in your outdoor studio, or just letting the world have them?”

    You had once mentioned alchemy, something I hitherto had not considered. It seemed to fit me well. And I thank you again for the enlightenment. So, like you living in the woods, I am next to giving important work away. Or letting the elements take them. I probably would have been some sort of wastrel any way :-), but NBL (as with you) has prepared me for an “existential termination of things.” Again, it fits me and my drop-out ways quite well.

    I didn’t see it as linear. Which is leading?; my natural proclivities or the guidance of NBL? NBL does reach many thousands, so there’s a difference there. I suppose it forms a hub that folks like us gravitate toward. For certain, the site crystallizes my otherwise formless anxiety into something clear and (for me) coherent. I need not apologize for what I do, for now it makes sense given the circumstances. I’ve worked pretty hard to avoid being a “success,” something for which I had ample credentials to become. I’ve walked away from empire repeatedly.

    With the poor economy, I fancy that people can only “afford” extremely cheap things. If they buy it for a pittance, that pittance is more valuable to me than having work gathering dust and dog eared in a shed. And there’s so much stress and BS about showing in a gallery. Then again, fitting in with the inhospitable environment in an open carport is an appropriate project for resistance. It’s an attempt to do the impossible.

    Anyway, excuse the lengthy rambling. Your work sounds interesting.

  • Alchemy was the attempt to transmute elements (change one element into another,lead into gold )via chemical reactions. Transmuting elements can only be done with nuclear reactions. Nuclear reactors and bombs are alchemy in action.

  • .

    See? Now that’s more like it!

    It’s much more fun to laugh at yourself along with someone else than it is to just sit there and watch them have all the fun without you.

    Bravo and touché! I’ve gone and bookmarked that set of short stories now. Thanks. :)

    For you (and me too, and all of us) …


    I have learned something from you, so thank you. I’ve learned how far down the road life has taken me since I was twenty. You remind me of me once upon a time. Life doesn’t always stay the same, at least for me it didn’t. I truly hope you find all you seek with your music. Best of luck to you, and I really mean that. :)

    For you … (I like to sing this song at the club sometimes, except I play keys, not guitar.)

    Shhhhhh, I’m just that little mouse in the outhouse now. Shhhhhhh
    I actually like this place better without me. I get tired of me pretty quickly.

    Aren’t we dead yet? ;)

    (places duct tape back over mouth) ;)

  • “Gloucon X Says: He said we have between six weeks and one to two decades ‘till extinction. That’s got be be the most important part don’t ya think?”

    Not necessarily. If that’s all he said, he would just sound like a crazy ranter. Which is why I asked him, not you.

  • The reason we’re all here is because we believe Guy’s conclusions that we are 6 weeks to 20 years (at most) from extinction due to climate change. He says that spreading this information is the most important thing. It’s right there in the talk. Sure, he mentioned grief counseling and Nietzsche but he’s not touring the world claiming to be an expert in those areas. He claiming to be an expert on extinction caused by climate change. It’s right there in the masthead “our days are numbered” and in the talks he gives us the numbers: 6 weeks to 20 years (at most). It’s hard to believe that at this stage some people still can’t figure this out.

  • Excellent interview, Guy. Keep getting the word out. Thank you!


    Thank you for posting the vid of Eva Cassidy. She left this world much too soon. But the music she produced is a beautiful legacy of her life. She’s one of my favorite singers. Thank you.


  • The patients in the hospital burned alive in their beds (yesterday).

    Same with those on the operating table.

    Same with doctors and nurses who do not take sides in the war, they just help the hurt, wounded, and dying.

    Burning them alive is not innocent, it is wicked wrong.

    Only sanctimonious psychopaths do not get that (The Virgin MOMCOM – 10).

  • Ray Batman, back to the Batcave!

  • Enraged, the monster lashes out!

    Another hospital, another wedding party.

    Targeting compassion, targeting joy.

    All our men are dead.

    They gave themselves to the monster.

    And though they fly and aim and plot,

    they are all dead.

  • Gloucon X Says:
    October 5th, 2015 at 3:13 pm

    The reason we’re all here is because we believe Guy’s conclusions that we are 6 weeks to 20 years (at most) from extinction due to climate change. He says that spreading this information is the most important thing.


    Nope. That’s not why we’re all here. I see Guy’s conclusions as well articulated, with some solid science behind them. But when we’re talking about a complex system or a chaos system, “believing” anything is an irrational response.

    Because the FACT is that when it comes to complex/chaos systems, it is a fool’s game to make real predictions., as Guy has admitted himself (and yes, I was one of very few here who actually did poke him about that). So his response now is to say that he does’t make predictions, but rather talks about possible scenarios.

    Big difference. HUGE difference.

    Folks in the first group – whether their making prediction from the papal throne or sheepishly WANT the pope to make predictions – are practicing their own personal religion.

    And if that’s what you want to do – either as Pope or parishoner – go for it.

    I’m not so inclined myself – because layperson that I am, I know enough science to know that is a fool’s game.

    Why is it a fool’s game? Because in a chaos/complex system, there are a huge number of variables interacting with one another in an essentially infinite number of ways, with an essentially infinite number of effects.

    This happens with the weather, for example. We’ve got enough good tech so that the weatherperson can tell us what kind of day tomorrow will be, weather-wise.

    But when someone (like the Farmer’s Almanac) tells us what a year from tommorow is gonna be like – well…you might as well use an ouija board for that.

    Some people have this incredible need to KNOW what the future holds. They need SOMETHING to believe in…Praise God!

    They gots to KNOW…Amen!

    They can’t be IG’NANT…Hallelujah!

    So this is a funny place actually. Guy INSISTS (and I believe him) that he has no interest in starting his own cult. But apparently he’s got a large crowd of what I can only call “true believers” or “devotees” who ignore basic science because it slakes that hopium jones with some old timey religion.

    There’s plenty of other ways this delusional tendency of humans manifests itself. For example, if you have an IMMENSE DELUSION about your own EXCEPTIONALISM, you’ll be convinced that your own karmic dogs won’t chew your ass off.

    America as a country has certainly done it…and stil do. A lot of our presidents have certainly done it (Think Clinton and Nixon for starters). Many of our entertainment (Think Bill Cosby) have done it. And many of our so-called spiritual leaders – in the East as well as in the West – have done it too.

    The basic idea, once again, is to focus on what I think is my own exceptionalism. Once I’ve done that, I am inspired and empowered to be like my hero Cartman, if you ever saw the MAURY SHOW episode: “I’LL DO WHAT I WANT”.

    It don’t get more HOPIUM-Y than that!

    But the end of that game is death: Death for the individual, death for the country, death for the world.

    The TAO TE CHING nails it with this small thought, articulated in the positive, rather than the negative:


    Make the head of the family right, and the family is right.
    Make the family right, and the village is right.
    Make the village right, and the state is right.
    Make the state right, and the world is right.

    So simple…so profoundly true.

    No need for the esoterica of either Bud Nye, or his frenemy Robin Datta.

    So easy to grasp that a child can understand. So complex in its ramificationa, that we all be better and DO better if we ruminated over this each day, for the rest of our lives, however long or short those lives might be.

    Things that make you go Hmmmm!

  • Gloucon X: I actually don’t think we’ll be extinct until at least 2050, so no, I’m not here because I’m in exact agreement with Guy’s conclusions. I listen to his reasoning and I weigh it against what other people are saying. Guy is not the almighty, he’s one person with an opinion (albeit a more educated one than most). Maybe he’s right about time frames, maybe not. I’m not talking about what he would say to a room full of NBL forum members (dear God, I hope that never occurs- we would all kill each other LOL) or to people who WANT to hear his message. I’m talking about the climate summit full of people who can influence global policy and what he would say there if he was only given 5 minutes. I assume there would be a slightly different delivery. Maybe I’m wrong. Who even cares, it was just a hypothetical question that he probably won’t even answer!!!

  • Radio Show GUY question: Did your childhood experience connected to the NezPec Indian reservation help give you a Native American style awareness of Man-out-of-Balance? “Koyannasquansai”

    WREN & GEO SMITH thank you both.

    Kevin Moore You do excellent research on your comments. I’ve been been focusing on all your comments back thru 2011. Good facts & important info well presented. CALLANGHAM also. I appreciate your style I collapse data sheet. Please keep updating. Thank you both.

    David Highman – I followed your link to other comment days ago. Good stuff.

    TOM I have official pages from the 9-11 commission report that were highlighted by General Lloyd Austin of central command. I’m going to give it to someone as I’m packing to move from D.C. Would you like me to mail it some safe address or PO box? Keep up your work on the serious evidence.

    Top CIA analyst Dr. Bruce Bueno De Mesquita developed an algorithmic program with very accurate predictive range prior to 9-11. Bruce is a fairly famous DOD consultant. His new calculations on escalating conflicts are dire. Analyst in every dept talk with each other. NBL could still be a great place to add info & factors leading to sudden extinction.

    Guy in the Saturday radio show thanks for mentioning how first res ponders will return to loved ones after 3 days. I already posted a link to the group photo of all of us in NRC consequence management team. We have all worked together for years. None are ready for a multi chain reaction event. The radioactive isotopes from all the abandoned reactors will = massive scale extinction. The thousand year level of radioactive decay is far beyond Fukishima or Chernobyl. Not even sure if the fungi found in the sarcophagus can survive deep DNA mutation at the quantity we have produced. The FACT of the reactors we keep building and the FACT that we will not remove them, makes makes mass extinction for all carbon based life forms 100% assured. The effects of mass radiation is a biological fact. Humans forget. Fantasy football is not reality. The amount of radioactive material we have produced is an absolute overlooked reality.

    Global warming is already causing mechanical problems in 23% of the core intake systems. Atlantic ocean salinity levels are causing cooling problems at both Miami (Turkey Point) & Port St. Lucie stations. So far only GUY is willing to talk about reactors in relation to mass extinction. I have no fame or following. I can only hope Dr. McPherson will continue to get people to learn about our nuclear maintenance problem. Half of the staff at NRC safety & risk management thank you. None of us here could even begin to respond if more than 3 plants per week began to melt down. Seriously nothing much will survive on an intensely radioactive planet.

  • I don’t mean to be offensive to my American friends here,but I think you are insane to not have tight regulations on gun ownership. Perhaps you think I am insane to think so.

  • I got very high today. We climbed a mountain to our west. A few exotic plants at the start of the walk,then none. Wild,rugged,ungrazed,unexploited
    country,bare rock at the summit,views all around,almost no evidence of humans( a powerline in the far distance). Some sun,a cool breeze,a shower watched as it drifted through the gorge,cloud shadows changing the patterns of light. One of the good days,caught before it slipped away.No Salvia divinorum in sight.

  • that sounds great david…i’ll be right over…dredd,open the pod bay doors…dredd…I said open the pod bay doors!!!…………daisy…

  • Sure Mark, that would be fine. Guy probably has my information (and if not he or you can e-mail me for it). Thanks. i’m not sure anyone is at all even interested (beside the few who notice) so i’ve cut back severely on my “contributions.” It appears people would rather bicker and argue about irrelevant personal or historical nonsense, but that’s just my opinion – it’s probably important to them on some level. Thanks for the offer.

  • The reality of the damage we are inflicting on the rest of life, each other and the planet itself is becoming more obvious, to more people, every day. Yet despite the best efforts of those who have awakened to the unfolding calamity, nothing seems to be making much difference. Why is it proving so difficult to correct our mistakes and unwind our “progress”?

    As I’m saying in various places now, whether one looks just at the level of human social institutions or continues on to look at evolutionary psychology or even thermodynamics as I have tried to do, the answer seems to be the same. The positive feedback loops that drive human growth appear to have a built-in ratchet effect that keeps them from unwinding.

    Whether we call it a Progress Trap, a Vicious Circle Principle, Infrastructural Determinism, a survival instinct, thermodynamic dissipation or Manifest Destiny is immaterial. They all simply speak to different appearances of the same phenomenon: irreversibility. There is a good reason nature has made this one-way ratchet so hard to defeat. Without it, we would have been knocked out of the game by competitors long ago, and would not be here today – for better and/or worse.

    Individuals can sometimes defeat this ratchet and roll back their own personal progress, but as far as I can tell, groups cannot. What’s worse is that the more people there are in a social group, the more tightly the ratchet binds us to the wheel of growth. If we look carefully, we can see its effect in our communities and especially in our nations. When the group consists of 7.3 billion people, all linked through modern communication into Marshall McLuhan’s “global village”, its effect is virtually inescapable, except for a very small number of individuals. Ironically, even those lucky escapees still remain beholden to some small degree to the bitter fruits of modern progress. Try going off-grid without an axe, for example.

    At this point I normally add a sop to all the hopeful parents in the crowd, saying that I hope they are proven right, and I am ultimately shown to be a just a bitter old cynic, rather than the realist I’m afraid I am. Fortunately, in this room, there’s no reason to add such a pusillanimous caveat.

  • ed,

    Thanks, well said!

    The only thing I could add is that to “believe in something” and therefore to “know” and feel a need to evangelize and save innocent souls (like Bud) is not as strong here in Europe, thank goodness!

    From this side of the Atlantic, this urge always seems an American idiosyncrasy, maybe a symptom of the way US culture developed after having “won” WWII and more recently the “fight against communism”? The US “saved” the world for its kind of creed, the one they’re trying to impose on the entire world because they “believe” they’re right.
    And now the “war on terrorism”. These people must also be saved from themselves and their rulers (regime change) Always the “good guy” fighting the good fight tooled up to the eyeballs. People know no different, and “believing and therefore knowing” is a powerful drug.

    And then, this extra dose of religiosity, which, from a European perspective, is very weird. No wonder “belief” is so important to so many Americans because it gives them the confidence to “know” they’re right. That’s the reason why people like that cannot understand that belief is not necessary for a life lived well and without depression.
    Bud, who thinks he’s attacked by anybody who disagrees with him is an excellent illustration of this.

    Here, on the whole, more reflective people come together. There’s a lot of healthy reflection and doubt. Mature adults should be like that. After all, this is not a blog for infants.

    I mean no offence and hope you all know what I’m getting at:)

  • yes sabine…quite clear. I happen to be a “European” trapped in the good ole’ usa…I’ve been alienated in this shit hole my whole life. I don’t think there’s tooooo much difference. euro’s have their noses in the air…and americans have their noses in their wallets. I’d like to take things more seriously…but once you know that it’s all so corrupted that the only solution is too burn it down, well… you burn it down. or you lose your mind. I’m losing and burning. I’d like to scream, but no one can hear you sneeze in space. my best friends in this world really only think about that next paycheck. I just try not to puke. healthy reflection? you just want order in the court. I’m going to leave it to you adults to work this shit out now, so I at least won’t be in the way.

  • Here’s a little thought about species we’re driving to extinction.

    Almost a third of cactuses at risk of extinction – study


    Almost a third of cactuses are at risk of extinction because of threats including illegal trade and a spread of farms in arid areas, making the spiny plants among the most vulnerable species, scientists said on Monday.

    “We were surprised to find that such a high proportion of cactus species are threatened … and by the diversity of threats,” lead author Barbara Goettsch told Reuters of the findings by an international team of researchers.

    The study said 31 percent of 1,478 types of cactus assessed were at risk of extinction – a higher rate than the 25 percent of mammals or 12 percent of birds that are rated as vulnerable to dying out because of human pressures. [read the rest if interested]

  • digixplor

    Please tell me that you’re not quite as sensitive as you make out. Most people here feel alienated by the human-made world, me included. I’ve always assumed that this goes without saying here. But I’m intrigued: why do you count yourself among the “infants”? At least that’s how I read it. Tell e I’m wrong.

    My comment was just an observation, in answer to “belief”, the way it seems to me from here, from somebody who was brought up in a (still slightly)different culture.

    It’s not about having a dig, for goodness sake, and neither did I imply that being a European is any better. This is not a contest!
    But we Europeans believe less, that’s a fact, and the kind of evangelizing I see happening in the US is weird to many of us. But that doesn’t make us any better, more insightful or less foolish.
    I was just pointing out an obvious difference (in relation to belief),the way it seems to me, that’s all.

    And when I use “European” I mean a person living on this continent called Europe, no ethnicity implied. And yes I know, Europe is really not a continent but only a sub-continent of the vast Eu)Asian landmass, rather like India but more jagged looking on a map, and its most Western peninsula with the UK, where I live, just a little Western island. As you can see, I see myself in context, and I have no illusions.

  • digixplor Says:
    October 6th, 2015 at 12:02 am

    that sounds great david…i’ll be right over…dredd,open the pod bay doors…dredd…I said open the pod bay doors!!!…………daisy…

    Hey dipshitplor,

    Get the virgin, the pat, and the seance guy and go kill for peace to prove how innocent you are.

    I won’t visit you in the psyche ward.

    Somebody has to do it (New Type of SLC Detection Model – 7)

  • Life started by accident and has no purpose. Then what does “risk of extinction” actually mean – is it something terrible? More than 99,9 % of species that have lived on Earth have already gone extinct. Isn’t extinction nothing but return to the natural state of matter? Other planets in our solar system are in their natural lifeless state. Only Earth has life. Is it important?

    As Jacques Brel said once: “In our lives, there are two important dates: Our birth and our death. Everything we do in between is not very important…”

  • posted at Scribbler by apneaman;


    Observation & empirical data versus “mystical” modeling

    “In the classic way of evaluating how well climate models account for permafrost carbon, scientists ask: Does the model predict soil carbon levels that are close to what is observed?” says Charlie Koven, a staff scientist in Berkeley Lab’s Climate and Ecosystem Sciences Division who led the research.

    “But we flipped the question and started with: What are the actual, observed stocks of carbon in the soil? With this approach, we built the simplest possible model of Arctic permafrost carbon and its dynamics,” Koven says.
    They averaged the results from the two scenarios, and found that for every one degree Celsius of global warming, the amount of permafrost carbon that enters the atmosphere is equivalent to 1.5 years of global carbon dioxide emissions.

    “We found for a given amount of warming, there is an extra amount of carbon released, which would lead to further warming—in other words, a feedback loop,” says Koven.

    A Simpler Way to Estimate the Feedback Between Permafrost Carbon and Climate | Berkeley Lab

  • @ Kevin

    I appreciate your candid response.

    @ Robin

    Spot on as usual. It’s hard to live without our illusions.

    @ Baba

    If you wish to call your epochal Hail Mary pass “hope”…then so be it.

  • From St. Doomer:

    While our planet may have survived September’s “blood moon”, it will be permanently destroyed on Wednesday, 7 October, a Christian organization has warned.

    (Christian group predicts the world will be ‘annihilated’ on Wednesday).

  • Tried to listen to the radio show LIVE (3 pm EDT), but could not find it on the site…will catch the archive later.

  • The desire to define how “we” achieved extinction is an interesting intellectual pursuit indeed. I suppose it’s nearly impossible to not belabor such a conclusion, though I know not what it serves beyond either entertainment value, or as some post-acceptant coping mechanism that aides us in shedding past notions of agency.

    Is such behavior akin to “Lord, give me the courage to accept the things I cannot change.” or something more analogous to Aesop’s sour grapes?

    Seeking to reveal our species inevitable fate in light of truth we can no longer avoid definitely serves something, the question is what?