The Seventh Stage: A Documentary Film

Ivey Cone created a documentary film dedicated to the seventh stage of Elisabeth Kübler-Ross’s five stages of grief. I wrote about the seventh stage early October 2015. The film relies upon the disparate perspectives of ten people with respect to the seventh stage, and it is embedded below.

Comments 163

  • After watching G-Iveys’ vid ,I checked out David Wasdell’s presentation ( ‘Apollo-Gaia’ site )… it’s 1-hour and if you can hang w/ him, it’s also very good.

    @Robert Callaghan

    Small coincidence here,but , I just saw your appraisal of ‘For Free’-J.Mitchell early this morning…… precisely after finally LEARNING the piano part by heart. About 6 and 1/2 months of taking many , ridiculously many swipes ( countless ) at it late @ nite after work ( once I finally found an accurate transcription of her original piano arrangement).
    Didn’t play piano, couldn’t read the music,couldn’t move the fingers etc. BUT the sheer ..uh… beauty /truth of that song propelled me thru and it’s a damn good one to START w/ I’ll tell you that. I have to thank an old friend for loving that song so well many years ago, thus causing me to hear it so much then; it was conveniently burned deep into some spare neurons for use later… a lot later !! Like accidentally discovering x-tra food you didn’t know you had in your backpack ( under some old socks … ) on a long hike down a bad trail!

    Something about that music also helps you keep some half-sane wits handy while trying to think about ACD . -JJ

  • If you look up at the top of this thread you will notize, that the 2-post-rule isn’t in place anymore.

    To me, Guy McPherson is the host of this blog and this Guy knows for shure that I got great respect to his work and his intention.

    Did you notize what Guy McPherson said at around 21:10 in the video? He said that he may not have climate updates in the future^^ Why? Because, he realized that the battle against the deniers is finally lost anyway, he reached the Fuck-it-stage. But Guy McPherson lives on. Can you imagine that he will go on for 15 more years carrying the corpse of the dead horse of NTE, climate change ect? I can’t. But I can imagine that he will spend his life with LIVING, while keeping Death in mind. I think, the most important point of the whole story is that he left Empire as far as he could and does not regret it, he follows the path of truth, the path of reality. And he shared his knowledge with others. What more could he do than to go on with his own, personal life? I can imagine that he might just disappear into the woods in the not too distant future and does just what he loves to do.

    @Gerald Spezio

    I hate the politics of the Israel Government against Palastine as much as you do and I never denied it. But the Israel government represents in no way “The Jews” all over the globe. The Israel government is a minority who acts against the will of it’s very own people in Israel (like minorities all over the globe act against the people). The majority of Israel votes for a free Palastine nation. “The Jews” is a pure fantasy, there are no real pure Jews anywhere on the globe as there are no pure Arians on the globe. All races are a chaotic mixture of different races. And the “Zionist World Government” is also pure fantasy, there is no “Zionist World Government”. There is not just one conspiracy, but many conspiracies going on on the globe. And the most obvious one is the MONEY conspiracy. You just have to realize that MONEY (colored paper and round metal) gives a shit about race, religion, ideology, nationality ect. That’s the whole fuckin story of modern man as we no it, nope else- dumb, stupid, ridiculous money, colored paper and round metal, GREED, hatred, ignorance, that’s the whole ridiculous story, the root of NTE. Crazy shit, isn’t it? Anyone here who doesn’t believe in God? Well, just take a look at the one dollar note, there you will find the real GOD, there it is written:

    In (the) God (of money) we trust.

    That ridiculous paper-god is the foremost reason of NTE. Amen.

  • It’s not a joke:

    Magick exists, it’s no fantasy. A fetish can be loaded with POWER, MAGICK, MANA. And money is such a fetish god. Imagine the POWER this very pieces of colored paper and round metal gained- it gained REAL POWER over the whole globe. Look at the ancient coins, look at the ancient money, there you will find the Gods, beginning with Gilgamesh, the Godkings, the Pharaos of Egypt, the roman Emperors up to modern Wall Street- everywhere you will find those Gods, colored paper and round metal loaded with real POWER, MAGICK, MANA:

    The story of all those gods will be over soon. Those gods represent power, worldly power, but it’s a power of fetish, not the eternal power of Truth, Reality, Nature.

  • Corexit 9500 was applied by airplane on the slick to help it go away and help natural microbes in the water eat the oil faster. The oil appeared to dissipate, but scientists and government officials didn’t really monitor the microbes and chemicals, said University of Georgia marine scientist Samantha Joye.

    So Joye and colleagues recreated the application in a lab, with the dispersant, BP oil and water from the gulf, and found that it didn’t help the microbes at all and even hurt one key oil-munching bug, according to a study published Monday in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

    Fuck it to everyone who still continue to work each week at trying to clean-up ten thousand toxic spills. Lot’s of talk but only a tiny fraction of Earth’s human population make any real effort. The sooner the care stops we can get out of the way of micro attempts to slow down NTE. Russia – vs – TURKEY are we cooked yet???

  • I’d be willing to bet that Corexit 9500 filth was probably someone’s toxic industrial waste being marketed as a product in order to execute business plan 102.

    I told Lydia about business plan 101 awhile back. Here’s business plan 102 … take your industrial waste product and turn an expensive headache into a profitable side business by turning your waste into a product and having people buy it from you. Like plan 101, I was taught plan 102 in business class at uselessversity.

    Fraking fluid (the stuff they pump into the ground to fracture the bedrock with) is the toxic waste from refineries being sold back to the oilfield as highly proprietary fraking fluid. You can’t know what the fluid is composed of … because that’s a proprietary business secret. Cheney (Haliburton) sells fraking fluid.

    Plastic is an example of the business 102 plan. It’s the toxic waste left over from refining oil. Chemists (uh oh, scientists) helped then turn this unmanageable and costly garbage into plastics, and now its sold back to you and I as a product. We throw it into the ocean for them, and they get paid by us for taking it off their hands. Plastic pollution is now supposedly OUR fault because we ‘demanded it’ as consumers.

    That was sarcasm by the way, saying that we demand it from them as consumers. Plastics were definitely thrust upon us.

    Here … pay us for taking the toxic waste from our industry, and then you can throw it into the ocean for us … and the pollution will all be your fault. A pretty ‘slick’ plan.

    Nobody said they weren’t clever. Psychotic, yes … but very clever too.

    Corexit 9500 … hmmmmm. I wonder. :/

    Fuck it.

  • @LWA, yep.

    Nuclear power.



    All because of “consumer choice”!

  • I used to spend many hours a week searching for information relating to energy depletion and environmental collapse, thinking that a change in culture would be possible. However, about 3 years ago, once I had worked out that ‘nobody’ (and especially nobody in government) cares about the future and that everything that matters would continue to be made worse, I began to take a more casual, even sardonic, approach to it all.

    Over 2013-2014 I/we witnessed the absolute betrayal and local sabotage of the next generation by the then-newly-elected mayor Andrew Judd, who performed a series of U-turns on practically everything he had espoused before being elected. Since then we have witnessed ever-faster destruction of the environment, both globally and locally.

    Additionally, over the past year we have witnessed what John Key described as a ‘rock star economy’ hit several walls and become a partially-down-the-drain economy, failing somewhat less spectacularly than many others because there is still stuff in NZ that can be converted into computer digits, and, as previously mentioned, because the great stampede to perceived safety is underway: the conversion of that which is semi-sustainable (pasture) into that which is totally unsustainable (suburbia) provides short-term employment and keeps the Ponzi financial scheme going a little longer. Boondoggles galore, together with ‘bread and circuses’ (but usually without any bread).

    Yesterday I met the co-owner and prime driver of one of the most productive ‘self-sufficient’ properties in Taranaki (Guy knows who I mean), and discussed with her the predetermined failure of the coming climate ‘negotiations’. Even she, previously ever-optimistic because she has relatively young children, has come round to the idea that it is too late to prevent meltdown, and now recognises that we are continually lied to by governments and the mainstream media.

    Paying much less attention to matters I previously researched thoroughly, it was only today that I noticed:

    ‘Measurement Note: An Adjustment to the Record

    November 9, 2015 Rob Monroe

    On Nov. 5, 2015, we made an adjustment to the Scripps Mauna Loa CO2 record that has the effect of increasing concentrations we have reported since April 2015 by 0.4 parts per million (ppm). We made the adjustment after comparing our short-term calibration gases with the long-term calibration gases, concentrations of which have been determined manometrically. Comparing short- and long-term calibration gases is a normal part of the strategy for maintaining reliable long-term measurements. The adjustment increases the likelihood that concentrations will remain above 400 ppm permanently after 2015.

    – Ralph Keeling’

    (400.53ppm on 24th Nov)

  • 44, you’re one of my favorites. When I think of what I like best about NBL, well, it’s people like you that come to mind. No mawkishness about you, some grit around the edges, that’s what I like. But, there’s so many others, too, that I admire for the selfless sharing of themselves. Weather it’s information we get or kindness and understanding…I think that what we share is worth struggling through and enduring some of the strange symptoms displayed by a few. I would be very sad if NBL were to disappear! I have a rich choice of activities to fill my leisure time and still rank NBL right up there at the top! Thanks to Caroline and Teresa for continuing to contribute. I’m hoping to see all the wise women returned here soon. I MISS YOU! PLEASE, YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE, IT’S NOT THE SAME WITHOUT YOU! I’ve learned to cope with trolling by simply rolling past the posters that turn me of. It’s easy, I try not to get mad. It’s my choice and I use it! HOWEVER, I want to go on record and place my token next to yours in the black pot.

    I think it would be cool if as many of us as can afford to, be sure to send Guy a little token of appreciation this Christmas.

    Happy Turkey Day!

  • Lidia, I just now noticed that you’re still with us. That’s such a positive sign to me, thanks. It may seem creepy to some, but for me, having women share this space makes it feel more like a home, a refuge.

  • 44 south, thank you. It occurs to me that the ones unable to admit that perhaps our Mother is hurting or unable to renew are the very reason why the systems that are in place still operate. Humans have lived on the Earth for a long time it seems. We have incomplete information because we don’t know anything. We think we know, but we don’t. I have visited ruins of entire civilizations where the language that they spoke hasn’t been deciphered and that was only from 2500 years ago. Our fossil records that we have are pieces of this and that apparently mostly fish so we have made guesses on ages and evolution. Everything is a guess. It’s a made up story by humans who will never know. Regarding our Mother, which I call her because She sustains our lives, She gives everything to every life form on this planet. We live because of Her. To say that all the destruction that has been caused by humans hasn’t affected Her is to say She is nothing, She is dead, She is untouchable. Which as we see is not the case. It doesn’t matter if the theories say that she will die one day. It is a poor excuse to dishonour Her. There is no human on the Earth today that in some way is not hurting the planet. Unless you are a hunter gatherer and create no traceable waste, you are hurting the eco system. We were like that apparently in the past before agriculture and before we created empires. I believe humans knew how to live with the Earth and they respected and honoured Her. Traditional indigenous people have a seven generation policy wherein you must care for the Earth so the next seven generations are cared for by Mother. We have turned away from this. There is no honour, there is no respect. Yes, we are humans and a small part of the big picture. Maybe the ones that spew their surety that the Mother will have no problem renewing or are saying fuk it are the ones that think they are inconsequential and do not think of themselves as part of this vast chain of life and energy. I on the other hand am proud of my place on this Earth. I love my Mother. I love all other species and I feel deeply for their pain in being subject to us the current dominant species. A lot of times I feel ashamed to be a human because I am related to some that don’t have any natural feelings left. I haven’t always done things right because of lack of knowledge and I still don’t do some things right because I am trapped in the system in some ways. But I can tell you that when the time time comes and if I am to experience a coming destruction termed NTE then I will be like a Dog Soldier and stand up to the very end for the Mother. The Mother means everything to me.

  • Let’s be honest. The climate summit in Paris will be a joke. Every party to the talks will be flying in to the city of nuclear powered lights, jet fuel spewing out everywhere. There will be nice warm and cozy hotel rooms waiting for everyone with nice hot showers every morning. Taxis and cars to take the delegates to the fully electronicized and connected meeting rooms. Plenty of amps for the microphones and watts for the power point slides. In other words, it will be a giant carbon burning festival in the supposed interest of reducing emissions. WHAT A JOKE. The delegates need to be arriving by clipper sailing ship, riding horses and mules to the meetings which should take place in giant open air tents with maybe some logs on the fire, and word of mouth pronouncements and information releases going out to hand cranked printing presses. Nevermind boys. Enjoy the spectacle. You’re going extinct and so are the kids. Good Luck and Happy days.

  • .
    @Teresa said …

    “It doesn’t matter if the theories say that she will die one day. It is a poor excuse to dishonour Her.”

    I was the poster who relayed that theory.

    Where the fuck did I say that was an excuse to dishonor (sp) her? Show me where I said that.

    Don’t be putting words in my mouth like that please. Geez Louise.


  • Wester,

    Spot on but you forgot to mention the catering.

  • LWA you are letting your ego get in the way. I have written something from my heart, the way I see things. I am not putting words in any person’s mouth. I am stating what I see and feel as it pertains to my own opinion and values and what I see happening. I don’t wish to do what other’s are doing on here and that is to bicker and act silly. This is a forum for thought and spoken words. I am sorry if you are offended. I read comments, don’t remember who made them and write my thoughts as I feel them. I don’t believe in most humans theories and educated guesses. Some of the things humans have figured out are natural laws which were always there so it’s no big deal. We aren’t the most intelligent species although we think we are. Intelligence is a matter of degree and perception.

  • Teresa

    And understanding the life cycle of a star and what a red dwarf is doesn’t translate into I don’t care about the earth because it’s going to die anyway. That’s all going on in YOUR head, not mine.

    And fuck it is gallows humor from our blog host, not an invitation to rape the earth.

    Get with the program. I’ll let you off the hook though, since I find your comments interesting sometimes. Sorry you found mine so offensive.

    Ego shmeego. Your reading comprehension needs some work. And read up on red dwarf stars sometime too. :)

    Sorry for the extra posts. I post much less here lately anyway. I wonder why that is?

  • And you LWA should look up Control Freak. :) You have to read what I wrote to you several times and then think about it ok. Red dwarfs, green dwarfs, yellow dwarfs, hollow earth, ufo’s, the second coming of christ, black holes, white holes, whatever humans want to think up and believe isn’t going to do a thing for a human life on this planet. We live here, this is our home, this is why we live because we have all the things we need to live from birth until death. Every species has a life span. There is no getting away from that. If you want to research all kinds of theories, please use your time to do that. To me, it’s not going to make life here on Earth one bit different. All our species cares about is themselves when there are thousands of other life forms that live in harmony with us except we are always searching for some type of ultimate reality and we fail to realize that we have it. Please forgive me for posting again, it seems that my ego has gotten in the way.

  • hey, people, it’s not like the end of the world or something
    oh wait…

  • @Wester, you’re so right. I know one of the people behind the scenes at the Paris talks. She’s supposed to “assist” some group of scientists in some way. She wanted to participate in a co-housing group I’ve been at the fringes of. One of the first things I ever heard her say was (completely without shame or irony) “I HAVE TO TRAVEL A LOT IN MY CLIMATE CHANGE WORK”.

    @Theresa, I think painting the Earth as a “mother” not only raises the question of who is the “father”, but unconsciously reveals further anthropocentrism. “Mother”+”father” = only a subset of the range of procreation possibilities the living things on earth have been known to express. Not a warm and fuzzy thought, sorry about that.

  • Thanks for the kind words Kirk.
    OK the proposed “death sentence” was a bit over the top, but I was trying to make a point.
    Does anyone here really believe that when the shit hits the fan, there’s going to be any tolerance of those who will not follow a few simple rules designed for the common good?
    Someday I expect this place to be a refugee camp. If I am still alive, I will be in charge. Benign dictator if you like. I had enough of group decisions back in the communal agrarian anarchy days.
    Disobey rules in that situation,fuck up ball enough, i.e.leave a tap running or fail to shut a gate,resulting in major loss and banishment will be the BEST you can hope for!
    And yes I’m too fond of some here, past and present, to wish NBL away too easily. Put that down to anger at the world again. And two days hot enough to be February, and too much work in the sun. Summer heat in late spring. Seems odd,wonder what’s up with that?

  • Wow! My first exposure to Ivey, and what a treat! I’ve enjoyed watching, recognizing, and interacting with intelligent people all my life, and she has brought quite the strong collection to our attention.

    I guess my “fuck it” might be the expectation, or conceit, I had that human intelligence could make a difference, solve problems, or bring about a positive outcome. Runaway technology (as if internal combustion engine was so advanced), greed, and delayed trigger of methane release have outsmarted us.

    And Guy, you are so much more than a “climate change updater” — answering interview questions from the “Straights” is such a drag. You are in your better element, relaxed with such as Ivey who hear you on a higher level.

    What Guy, I realize, has been doing is helping to create an intellectual (scientific) and emotional zeitgeist for Resistance to Industrial Civilization. It really is the only conclusion a thinking person may come to, as opposed to living like a fish who never thinks about the water it spends its life swimming in.

    And the nod to Daniel by you both — yes, the proto-prophet Daniel who we watched in text puzzle out so many of our own dilemmas. If you, like me, felt yourself at the time resisting his words, well, now might be a good time to re-read…

    Dillon brought back the almost-ancient quote of the other Dylan — in Like a Rolling Stone (hey, isn’t there a famous rock group named after that song?) — “When you ain’t got nothin’, you got nothin’ to lose. You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal. How does it feel, to be all alone, with no direction home, a complete unknown, like a rolling stone.” There’s a fuck it for ya!

    And for those born post-1969, we were on high Fuck It alert all through the Sixties, and mostly ever since. (“The Lonely Crowd”, acid, “Yippies”, Chicago, Altamont, SLA, FTS (“Fuck The System”) Welcome to the final stages, where everyone gets to be in the horror movie we only were seeing the trailer for.

    Carolyn is right. Fuck it is the momentary release of anger as well, necessary before reaching for that compassionate side of each of us. It is honest, and honest we must be.

    And Benjamin reminded me so much of The Fuck Movie, which I saw on late night cable one time outside the USA, and have never seen it made available inside. Wonder why? So many things to say, wrapped up in one small Anglo-Saxon syllable.

    Cory’s right, too. Fuck THEM! (Why do her remarks make me think of Le Maquis, and the punishments for collaborateurs after the liberation of France?)

    Derrick brings another quote to mind, from warriors who knew their world was about to disappear: “Today is a good day to die.” The Dog Soldiers were committed to letting as many of their people slip away, by staking themselves to a spot to fight to death. Perhaps a different tactic for out time, but the principle is there.

  • I think painting the Earth as a “mother” not only raises the question of who is the “father”, but unconsciously reveals further anthropocentrism. “Mother”+”father” = only a subset of the range of procreation possibilities the living things on earth have been known to express. Not a warm and fuzzy thought, sorry about that.

    We all come from Mother Earth, we are all completely dependent from Mother Earth, we all go back to Mother Earth. Mother Earth feeds all beings, she nourishes all beings, that’s the foremost benefit Mothers do. Therefore I see no reason, not to call her Mother.

    The indigenous people warned us a long time ago about the fucked up situation we are all in now. They always treated Mother Earth as a Mother, as a living being and they always called her Mother and treated her like a Mother…

    Even the term “matter”, wich has been promoted and discussed quite often here on NBL is derived from the latin root “Mater”, wich means MOTHER, hahaha:

    matter (n.)

    materie, “subject of thought, speech, or expression,” from Anglo-French matere, Old French matere “subject, theme, topic; substance, content, material; character, education” (12c., Modern French matière), from Latin materia “substance from which something is made,” also “hard inner wood of a tree” (source also of Portuguese madeira “wood”), from mater “origin, source, mother” (see mother (n.1)). Or, on another theory, it represents *dmateria, from PIE root *dem-/*dom- (source of Latin domus “house,” English timber). With sense development in Latin influenced by Greek hyle (see hylo-), of which it was the equivalent in philosophy.

    See also:

    Alma mater

    Alma mater (Latin: alma “nourishing/kind”, mater “mother”; pl. [rarely used] almae matres)

    Although alma (nourishing) was a common epithet for Ceres, Cybele, Venus, and other mother goddesses, it was not frequently used in conjunction with mater in classical Latin.[6] In the Oxford Latin Dictionary, the phrase is attributed to Lucretius’ De rerum natura, where it is used as an epithet to describe an earth goddess:

    We are all sprung from that celestial seed,
    all of us have same father, from whom earth,
    the nourishing mother, receives drops of liquid moisture…

  • Addendum to my last comment:

    The word “Mama” is probably one of the eldest words of humankind, as it is mostly the first word human beings learn as a child. The root of “Mama” is “Ma”. You will find that word all over the planet, throughout all cultures. See also the Sanskrit word “Maya”.

  • Fuck it… I am sufficiently anal/OCD/whatever, to do this- NBL analytics:
    Post tally in between 23/11 4.12am and 26/11 12.03am:

    Top of the Pops is….. Nemesis! A clear winner with a tally of 18 posts!
    Tying for silver are…… Gerald Spezio and Zarquon, each with 9 posts!
    Just making it to bronze with a late entry is… David Higham, with 7 posts!
    Just beyond reach of a metal gong we have.. Robert Callaghan and Teresa, with 6 posts!
    Coming in at number five is.. Paul Chefurka, with 5 posts!
    mt, Kirk Hamilton, Wester, Digixplor, LWA ….. 4 posts.
    Kevin Moore, Apneaman, 44 south….. 3 posts.
    Robin Datta, dave thompson, Tom, Ozman, Dredd, Caroline, Lidia… 2 posts.
    …. fuck it… you get the idea….


    2015-11-24 – As many as 41 children and some pigs and poultry die suddenly after rainfall in Papua (Indonesia):

    Quote: “A large number of children, many below the age of 7, have died of an unexplained disease in Mbuwa district, Nduga regency, Papua, following the start of the rainy season in early November 2015.”

    Quote: “As many as 41 children have died, as of today 24 Nov 2015. They present with a slight illness at first but die shortly after these initial signs.”

    Quote: “Erias said Nduga and surrounding areas had experienced drought and were exposed to haze from forest fires. Rain only fell in the past month. When the rain began, a number of livestock, such as pigs and poultry, also died abruptly.”

    Note: They’ve had the worst fires on the planet burning in Indonesia. Like I mentioned when the two firefighters recently dropped dead within two days in Detroit (Michigan), hydrogen sulfide is adsorbing onto matter and then when that matter burns, there may be residual hydrogen sulfide in the smoke. So what happens when it rains while contaminated smoke is blowing? You may get some toxic and possibly deadly ‘rainout’. So some poison rain fell, and these children and some pigs and poultry were exposed to it, either by getting rained on, or by drinking contaminated water after the rain, and it was deadly enough to kill small people and some animals. This isn’t just going to happen in Indonesia. Eventually this is very likely to happen everywhere.

  • Thanks for the terrible news in Papua. To me this is one example that the assertion that all human beings are cancer, like I saw here on NBL and elsewhere, is just sick (there is a fascist political agenda behind that assertion for shure). There are people who are responsible and there are completely innocent victims. If all human beings are just cancer, than the death of those children or any other (innocent) human would be a good thing, but that’s not the case, no way.

  • Joni Mitchell – For Free – that version the piana with her voice when it’s the last night’s thoughts, i’m usually disappointed with lyrics but her sound soothes them.

    posted at Ecoshock – at least Alex is young at heart:


    Vaclav Smil VS. Naomi Klein

    Who will win the climate-energy debate?!!

    The Green Energy Trap from collapse

  • Lidia, on the contrary. It might reveal unconscious anthropocentrism to those who actually believe that humans are the only species that matter, and it looks like that already encompasses a vast majority of the world’s population, but I don’t think it’s because of the word mother. We are not the only species that have a mother and there’s no hidden agenda regarding creation theories here. In the article I wrote, I clearly stated why I call Her Mother. To me, she embodies a mother, giver of life. You know, it really doesn’t matter at all what a person calls someone they love and are in gratitude to, it’s quite personal. Do you also have problems with all the other planet’s names? Because they are all named after gods and goddess’s and mythical things. All the psychology in the world won’t change the fact that the Earth sustains life. Indigenous people sometimes even call the Earth, Grandmother. You will have to put them all on the couch for psychological testing. The Indigenous people certainly did and do not believe that they were or are the only important species. Have you ever seen a totem pole or their art? Or studied the relationship they had and have with the land and other species? The Earth (Mother to me) is a life sustaining entity to me. Giver of abundance, giver of everything needed to survive. It is warmed by the Sun, another giver of life. Together they give life to me and you and all the other living things. We are all together, every living thing, we are all connected, we can never be separate, so caring what a person calls the Earth, in love and respect, is just pettiness and is a trivial matter. It’s irrelevant. I think the only person who you should question about the term Mother is yourself and find out why it bothers you so. Either it is a personal issue or disrupts a personal theory of yours or one that you relate to, on the beginnings of life, which is of no concern to me.

  • for the last time, damnit! I’m a gnome.

  • When I re-posted my “Fuckit List” from the top of this thread elsewhere, someone challenged me, asking if I was saying fuck it to being human, because that’s what it sounded like to them. I know that I always tend to go a little light on explanation, background and context when I post pieces like that, so here’s some belated redress of that oversight.

    I have a very different view of what “being human” means these days. For me, “being human” is now synonymous with being undifferentiated consciousness – kind of like the Tao, or what’s known in Advaita Vedanta as “atma swarupa” (true Self).

    My Fuckit List was written from a nondualist perspective as a consequence of some major changes in outlook I’m going through right now. I regret not placing the list in the context of this emerging worldview. As a result it probably sounds harsh and nihilistic to many people. In fact it’s about liberation, about casting off the shackles that keep us bound to a Western-traditional egoic view of the world as a “place” that is separate from us.

    I am saying fuck it to all the ways that human agency appears to manifest as the motive force in all the things we seem to do. To someone who defines “being human” in terms of “having agency” it could seem that I’m saying fuck it to being human. However, I no longer define my humanity in terms of agency.

  • nothing but twigs and acorns for me. happy thanksgiving.

  • I have a very different view of what “being human” means these days. For me, “being human” is now synonymous with being undifferentiated consciousness – kind of like the Tao, or what’s known in Advaita Vedanta as “atma swarupa” (true Self)…

    I am saying fuck it to all the ways that human agency appears to manifest as the motive force in all the things we seem to do. To someone who defines “being human” in terms of “having agency” it could seem that I’m saying fuck it to being human. However, I no longer define my humanity in terms of agency.

    Atma swarupa, the true self:

    O mighty-armed, know from Me the five causes necessary for the accomplishment of all works. They are described in the Vedānta scriptures which explain how to destroy karma. These five are the seat of action (the body), the agent (the living entity who identifies with the body), the various senses, the different and various types of efforts and daiva. Whatever action, whether righteous or illegal, a person performs by means of body, speech or mind, is the result of these five causes which is the fifth cause.” (Gītā 18.13-15)

    Action happens by the cooperation of these five factors, but because action happens in matter and via a body made of matter, matter (prakṛti) is often described as the cause of agency. This is simply because so many of the factors of action are aspects of matter. As the popular adage states, “A thing becomes known by its most prominent components” (ādhikyena vyapdeśā bhavanti). This is why Śrīmad Bhāgavatam (3.26.8) states, “Matter (which composes the body, senses and providence) is known as the cause of deeds. Spirit, which is superior to matter, is known as the enjoyer of the happiness and misery the deeds produce.

  • Nemesis,

    I’m not much of a scripture-bug. I defer to Sri Ramana Maharshi’s teachings on this, with a healthy dose of wu wei mixed in.

  • In other words, fuck it to ancient scriptures.

  • Without agency there would be no responsibility. Without Agency and responsibility no one could say that (certain) human beings are responsible for the destruction of Mother Earth.

  • Nevertheless I got great respect for Ramana Maharshi.

  • Usually we don’t say “You” to computers, because it is no Agent and it got no Responsibility, instead we say “It”. But we say “You” to human beings, because there is an Agent and Responsibility.

  • It is extremely hard to realize the Oneness of the Kosmos and it is even harder, not to negate Duality afterwards. Atma Swarupa, Oneness and Duality at the same time:

    Respect to you, Paul,

  • “What Guy, I realize, has been doing is helping to create an intellectual (scientific) and emotional zeitgeist for Resistance to Industrial Civilization. It really is the only conclusion a thinking person may come to, as opposed to living like a fish who never thinks about the water it spends its life swimming in.”


    Thanks for this. It’s as clear a definition as I’ve seen of what I’ve experienced here (while not quite knowing how to express it myself).


    Thanks for the adult reminder of “community” aspirations, and of the budding attempt on NBL to grapple with the feminine, etc.


    I appreciate what you’re trying to say. I try to keep it simple too. All sentient (and maybe non sentient) life tries to survive. Why should humans be any different? Wouldn’t that be a sign of anthropocentrism too? As though only we alone are so smart as to see through the whole thing and pronounce as to its meaning and value (or valuelessness)?

  • I’ve posted a guest essay by a first-time contributor in this space. It’s here.

  • Teresa Says:
    November 24th, 2015 at 5:15 pm
    By definition, all parasites and pathogens are bad for their host, but not all microbes and viruses are parasites or pathogens.

    For example, none of us could have been born except for the work of a virus (Are Toxins of Power Machines or Organisms?).

    Most microbes, by far, are symbionts rather than parasites or pathogens (On The New Meaning of “Human”).

    The ones doing damage are the pathogens, the ones doing good are mutualistic or symbiotic, no matter what their size or shape (How Microbes Communicate In The Tiniest Language).

    Happy Thanksgiving to all.

  • Nemesis,

    You say, “Without agency there would be no responsibility. Without Agency and responsibility no one could say that (certain) human beings are responsible for the destruction of Mother Earth.”

    You are correct, you can’t have responsibility without agency. That’s precisely where I part company with most on this list, and in society in general. I accept neither the concept of agency, nor responsibility. That applies especially for large collective events like changing the planet’s biosphere. It was that event that led me to question my ideas about agency, responsibility and morality in the first place. I’ve concluded that none of them are valid in the worldview I’ve entered.

    Duality is a pure illusion. Once it goes out the window, and Oneness is all, there is no longer any room for inherently dualistic notions like agency and responsibility. In my quotidian life I behave like a dualist with all that implies, but I don’t buy it for a second.

  • Duality is a pure illusion.

    So, that sounds not completely unreasonable to me, as it would imply for example that Life and Death are the same, also You and Me are the same…

    But what about that one:

    Also Guy McPherson and the Deniers of climate change are the same? No controversity, no Duality of different insight, different claims, different assertions? No duality?

    What about you and me? Are we One or are we Two? Are our opinions really One or do they differ? YOU are defenetly no ME, are you?

    What about a seed? Is the seed of a tree different from the growing tree or is it One, the same?

    What about a coin? A coin got two sides, mostly with two different motives on it. You can say that it’s One coin for shure, so you and me, we have the same opinion here, One opinion. But nevertheless you can’t negate that there are always two sides, Duality on one coin.

    Oneness makes only sense when there is Duality also. And Duality makes only sense when there is Oneness also. When there wouldn’t be Dualitiy there would be no necessity for the term “Oneness” as opposite to Duality and vice versa.

  • As soon as you say “Oneness”, Duality will rise up. As soon as you say “Duality”, Oneness will rise up.

  • You can’t even imagine Oneness without imagining Duality and you can’t imagine Duality without imagining Oneness :-)

  • There once was a student of the sacred truth. The Guru said to the student:

    TAT VAM ASI. You are Brahman.

    The student was totally shattered and felt Sat-Chit-Ananda. Glad as he was, he went out to the city of Benares. He saw all the people, all the coming and going and he thought “How wonderful, Tat Vam Asi, I am all of this, I am Brahman, Oneness.” Suddenly The King appeared, riding on a huge Elephant. He yelled towards the student:

    Hey!, out of the way!

    The student thought that he, himself is just Brahman, so nothing can hurt him, as the Elephant and The King were himself. So the Elephant collided very badly with the student, ouch. The student went home and complained about what happened. The Guru said:

    Well, then why did you not listen to The King, as he was Brahman?

  • Nemesis,

    Lots of words, lots of ideas and concepts, so many opportunities for recto-cranial inversion. In line with Sri Ramana’s simplicity I would ask this: Where do these thoughts arise from? What is causing such such delightful, juicy confusion to assume priority in the mind? What underlies the mind in which that confusion arises? At that level, are the apparent paradoxes real?

    My other point is that I’m not asking anyone else to believe what I believe. I’m not saying I can resolve anyone else’s distinctions between duality and oneness. I have resolved my own, at least to a degree sufficient unto the day. The only One who can resolve your questions is your Self. I suggest asking your Self. Who am I? It worked for me.

  • Hate The Jews ! i have said it “Fuck IT” !!!

  • @Theresa,
    It doesn’t “bother me so”. I was merely making an observation. I didn’t mean to get you worked up over it, and I hope you have a peaceful day, as I wish everyone here a peaceful day.

    Your comment, though, leads to another observation: You say the Earth GIVES us life, but at the same time isn’t it we who also TAKE it from the Earth? Though I had a perfectly loving human mother and a pretty idyllic childhood, I have no illusions about a progeny’s destructive capacity to the being who engendered it. A fetus/child is there to take, and take, and take. It’s been rather common, especially in the past, for mothers to give their lives in birth.

    So where does the action and responsibility lie? Anywhere? somewhere in the middle? or nowhere?

    If these types of questions are trivial, irrelevant, and of no concern.. I guess I don’t understand why you responded as you did. ???

    @Kirk, since we’re on the motherly topic, I’ll send out a not-at-all-creepy hug to you, a virtual embrace against my flannel-covered bosom. Hope this PDA doesn’t ruin anyone’s appetite!

  • @Paul, interesting convo with Nemesis. I wrote about responsibility, above, before having read through what you guys were saying.

    I should stop engaging with those who blame and defend. That is a paradigm that no longer works, if it ever did.

    As there is no blame, there is no defense, for any of us.

  • The only One who can resolve your questions is your Self. I suggest asking your Self. Who am I? It worked for me.

    Well, I did and the answer of my Self is:

    Aaah, good that you ask such wise questions. I am the Agent, I am responsible for my Karma in the past, in the present and in the future. I am Oneness and Duality at the very same time and I am free. Just trust in me, yourself.

  • Who else is the Agent, if not the Self? Who else is the Self, if not the Agent?

    The Infinite indeed is below, above, behind, before, right and left-it is indeed all this.

    Now follows the explanation of the Infinite as the I: I am below, I am above, I am behind, before, right and left- I am all this.

    Next follows the explanation of the Infinite as the Self: Self is below, above, behind, before, right and left- Self is all this.

    He who sees, perceives, and understands this, loves the Self, delights in the Self, revels in the Self, rejoices in the Self-he becomes a Svarag, (an autocrat or self-ruler); he is lord and master in all the worlds.

    But those who think differently from this, live in perishable worlds, and have other beings for their rulers.

    Chandogya Upanishad

  • @Gerald Spezio – these are your three answers/responses to my question to you – of which I repeat: ‘what do you propose we do if your assertions are correct?’…

    1st answer – Z, it’s rather simple, & I would consider it so obvious that your question is innocuous.

    2nd answer – Z, there is always the samson option

    3rd answer – Z, … sampson option? = “The roadmap to freedom is on the internet.”

    So again, we get even more obfuscation! It seems from your veiled response that you do indeed have a solution in mind but that you are reluctant to divulge it. Sorry, I have no idea what the ‘Sansom Option’ is and do not want to waste time with guessing. I have googled ‘the roadmap to freedom’ and of the first fifty from the 88million or so hits, most were about ‘getting out of debt’ or ‘obtaining wealth’ so I doubt these have anything to do with what you are trying to say. Two however may be relevant to your oblique references as to what we should do about your assertions. These are:

    Commission agrees 5 year Roadmap for Freedom Justice and Security
    The European Commission today launched its 5 year Action Plan for Freedom, Justice and Security – with detailed proposals for EU action on terrorism, migration management, visa policies, asylum, privacy and security, the fight against organised crime and criminal justice.This is a major policy initiative and a cornerstone of the Commission’s Strategic Objectives for 2010 – built around prosperity, solidarity and security. etc…


    “The order of the Pesach service is now completed in accordance with all its laws, its ordinances and statues. Just as we were found worthy to perform it [this year], so may we be worthy to do it in the future. O Pure One, Who dwells on high, raise up the congregation which is without number. Soon, and with rejoicing, lead the offshoots of the stock that you have planted, redeemed, to Zion.”
    Concluding Prayer of the Seder
    The Hasidic Master, Avraham of Slonim, teaches that the order of the Pesach Seder is the order of the whole year. [1] The Seder, which means “order” in Hebrew, provides us with guidelines for our spiritual life. It lays out the roadmap by which we can move from slavery to freedom. etc…

    One is an EU directive, the other a Yiddish prayer. Perhaps, as I suspect, they have no relevance whatsoever and I am barking up the wrong tree.

    If you cannot, or will not, spell out why you are spouting your crap on NBL (whether it has credence or not), then I must conclude that you are either mentally ill?, you have a drug or alcohol problem?, you perversely enjoy pissing people off?, you seek attention to compensate for a psychological inadequacy?,you harbour a long-standing personal grievance which you seek to displace onto others?, or worse, you are maliciously trolling to bring NBL into disrepute? Perhaps all of them?

    So, if you cannot offer any rational explanation why you are here then I will join the chorus of voices requesting your removal.

    For my part I am keen to learn your state of mind and rationale, which is why I am enjoying baiting you. In this respect I would beg others’ continued toleration in the hope that we may obtain a coherent answer – or your removal. Perhaps that would be the most appropriate final solution?

  • Nemesis, arguments are unproductive. Inquiry is productive.

    “It is more useful to inquire into the source of our questions than to seek their answers. After all, both question and answer arise from the same source.”

  • Quote Paul Chefurka:

    The only One who can resolve your questions is your Self. I suggest asking your Self. Who am I?

    Inquiry is productive…

    That’s what I did.

  • Are you satisfied with the result?

  • Yes, I am really satisfied with the result, so thanks for your advice.

  • @ Infanttirone the Real “Fuck It” moments of Dough

  • My thoughts on some of the assertions of Gerald Spezio, and others:

    I do not accept that Hitler was a good guy or a likeable character. Neither do I accept that the Nazis deserve sympathy; they needed to be eradicated then, and they need to be eradicated now.

    I do not deny that the Nazi holocaust took place but parts of the official narrative appear suspect and deserve further scrutiny. In particular, the logistics and numbers of alleged deaths.

    It is not unreasonable to assume that political leverage was made of the Nazi holocaust by powerful factions in the controlling elites post WWII. (Never let a good crisis go to waste).

    I believe that the State of Israel was created by the controlling elites to get a foot in the door of an oil-rich country.

    The powerful elites seem to be disproportionately represented by people identifying as Jewish (whatever that may mean). In particular, within: banking and finance, media, arts and entertainments, politics and food production/distribution.

    It is not unreasonable to assume that any group or race that considers itself different and superior to another will gain reproductive advantage over time. This effect will be magnified if it is a credo believed to have been imbued by a higher spiritual authority. Therefore, over a given number of generations this effect can not fail to generate a vicious circle of nepotistic tendences and veiled psychopathy. A similar effect can be seen in dictatorships and royal bloodlines.

    “If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all.” – Noam Chomsky.