The Iron Cage

The paragraph below come from the final pages of Max Weber’s 1905 book, The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism:

The Puritan wanted to work in a calling; we are forced to do so. For when asceticism was carried out of monastic cells into everyday life, and began to dominate worldly morality, it did its part in building the tremendous cosmos of the modern economic order. This order is now bound to the technical and economic conditions of machine production which to-day determine the lives of all the individuals who are born into this mechanism, not only those directly concerned with economic acquisition, with irresistible force. Perhaps it will so determine them until the last ton of fossilized coal is burnt. In Baxter’s view the care for external goods should only lie on the shoulders of the “saint like a light cloak, which can be thrown aside at any moment.” But fate decreed that the cloak should become an iron cage.

Weber’s reference to capitalism as an “iron cage” has become famous among sociologists. There is no escape from the iron cage. Weber calls it capitalism, but it applies much more broadly. The iron cage is civilization. Quoting Tim Bennett, I refer to our fate as, “born into captivity.”

There is no escape from industrial civilization. Believe me, I’ve tried. I left behind the privileged life of scholarship at a major university several years ago. I developed a homestead and tried to throw off the shackles of culture. Pursuing agrarian anarchy while adhering to the principles of permaculture, I threw abundant money and hard work at a failed project.

The failure results not from lack of effort, nor from lack of money, nor from lack of help along the way, nor from the harsh environment. With respect to the latter issue, abrupt climate change has been generous with precipitation even though the region is bracketed by drought. The static water level remains 20 feet (6 meters) below ground, as it has for more than a century. We’ll not die here from lack of water, despite the unsupported beliefs and bizarre wishes of my detractors.

The failure results from the inability to escape abrupt climate change, a product of industrial civilization, as well as the inability to accept reality (an inability that likely also results from industrial civilization). Climate change is but one symptom among many resulting from this set of living arrangements, as I’ve explained (and see this essay from more than four years ago). The continuation of civilization is murderous, to humans and other organisms, and ultimately would kill us all. The termination of civilization will remove habitat for humans and most other complex organisms even faster.

The system teeters on the brink, even according to the International Monetary Fund and The Guardian (and see David Stockman’s overview from 22 December 2015 and this summary from 23 December 2015). With respect to the lifeblood of civilization, crude oil, and its home base: “Saudi Arabia is starting to come apart, and when its unscheduled rapid disassembly is a little farther along, the Industrial Age will come to an end.”

In other words, we’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t. Individual- and societal-level actions are far too little, far too late to save our species from its imminent demise. We can, of course, extend the run of the myriad non-human species we drive to extinction every day. We can, of course, improve the lives of those around us on a daily basis. And, particularly for those of us privileged to occupy the global north, we can pursue freedom in our own way. For now.

The pursuit of freedom doesn’t require much, either. It can be conducted even in the United States, among the most unfree, horrific examples of a totalitarian, surveillance, police state in history. The pursuit requires little money, far less than I’ve spent to develop the 2.7 acres I call the mud hut. Pursuing freedom may entail freedom from addictions such as electricity, automobiles, and myriad other luxuries we take for granted, all of which are costly in many ways. Living off grid, surrounded by the bounty of nature, is rewarding in ways beyond paychecks and “influence.” But off grid need not include an expensive house powered by expensive “renewable” energy.

Addictions abound. Freedom awaits. Even if there is no escape from the horrors of empire, even if there is no breaking free from the iron cage of civilization, even if there is no way out of the Alcatraz into which we are born, we can each walk away from the distractions that plague us and that — for many people — have come to define us.

If only for a short time. If only now. If only in our minds. Especially in our minds.

Comments 158

  • @Old Growth Forest:

    Also recent reports of massive Murre deaths all around Homer and Kachemak Bay and that’s a long way from Whittier. It’s happening all around the coast…

  • cuntagious: i agree. Human population at the expense of all other species and habitat destruction illustrates the hubris and insanity of our species. i once got angry with some people proselytizing anti-abortion, calling them idiots and demanding that they back up their fake rhetoric with action – “You take them, if that’s the way you feel! Don’t forget tomorrow there will be more.” They didn’t get it and quoted the Pope and the Bible’s message of “go forth and multiply.” So here we are. Al Bartlett laughs at our stupidity.
    It’s far too late now, as Guy and others here (eg. Dredd’s quote) have stated.

    Yeah, that was me at Scribbler’s. i too think he sees the writing on the wall.

    kevin: so nice of you to send thoughts my way. Thanks to both of you.

    Be well my friends.

  • Regarding Trump, on one hand I’m surprised ISIL or another jihadist group hasn’t issued a fatwa to take him out. On the hand, why should they? He’s the best recruitment tool they could ask for. The ugly American writ large. One who’s all too happy to frame the terrorism as an all encompassing ‘clash of civilizations’ which is exactly what jihadists want.

  • Tom, if Robert is seeing it, he most assuredly is not saying it.

    Just today he said;

    robertscribbler / January 6, 2016

    “They need to be looking at the Permian. Only event with anywhere close to this one’s potential scope or velocity. We can cut it off at the head by cessation of fossil fuel emissions. But if we really want to know what we’re in for if we keep on burning, look at the Permian and then cram it all into a few Centuries plus add other human impacts. If we stop burning soon it’ll be rather bad and disruptive. Just not that bad.”

    The last two sentences are childishly optimistic.

    But we all know that Robert has given us a magnificent ongoing compendium of the best scientific info about global heating.

    Go figure.

  • Since N. Korea is the big news political news today, it would be wise to remember a gigantic but relatively unknown fact about N. Korea.

    From the Truman Doctrine to Obama. The history of the 1950s Korean war confirms that extensive war crimes were committed against the Korean people.

    As confirmed by the statement of General Curtis Lemay:
    “Over a period of three years or so we killed off – what – twenty percent of the population.”1

    North Korea lost close to thirty percent of its population as a result of US led bombings in the 1950s. US military sources confirm that 20 percent of North Korea’s population was killed off over a three period of intensive bombings:

    “After destroying North Korea’s 78 cities and thousands of her villages, and killing countless numbers of her civilians, [General] LeMay remarked, “Over a period of three years or so we killed off – what – twenty percent of the population.”

    It is now believed that the population north of the imposed 38th Parallel lost nearly a third its population of 8 – 9 million people during the 37-month long “hot” war, 1950 – 1953, perhaps an unprecedented percentage of mortality suffered by one nation due to the belligerance of another.”

    During The Second World War the United Kingdom lost 0.94% of its population, France lost 1.35%, China lost 1.89% and the US lost 0.32%. During the Korean war, North Korea lost close to 30 % of its population.

    These figures of civilian deaths in North Korea should also be compared to those compiled for Iraq by the Lancet Study (John Hopkins School of Public Health). The Lancet study estimated a total of 655,000 Iraqi civilian deaths, following the US led invasion (March 2003- June 2006).

    KNOW THE FACTS: North Korea lost close to 30% of its population as a result of US bombings in the 1950s

  • Synchronicity in the N. Korea underground nuclear test an hour after I sent SeeMoreRocks, Robin Wester, NNSA charts on how fallout patterns are predicted to circulate. MIT calculates New Zealand is a good survival zone as long as 497 other nuclear plants do not meltdown due to improper care during nuclear conflict panic & other side effects.

    LEGAL DISCLAIMER: (Void in A51 Nevada) Let’s assume over 88 billions forms of consciousness experiencing all sorts of realities co-exist continually. Guy, Tom & I are of course just looking at this ONE subjective probability in all of the vast duality of relative perspectives on “reality”

    How does a middle eastern regional nuclear war erode the ozone layer?

    MIT Dr. Mills: It’s not the explosions that do it, but the firestorms. Those push up gases that lead to oxides of nitrogen, which act like chlorofluorocarbons. But let’s back up a little.

    There are two important elements that destroy ozone, or O3, which is made of three atoms of oxygen. One element involves oxides of nitrogen, including nitrogen dioxide, or NO2, which can be made from nitrous oxide, or N2O — laughing gas.

    The other element is a self-destructive process that happens when ozone reacts with atomic oxygen, called O. When they react together, they form O2, which is the most common form of oxygen on the planet. This self-reaction is natural, but takes off the fastest in the first year after the nuclear war. Go 44 South. “Order out of Chaos” Kevin survives ELE stage one. ANDREW TAYLOR stock up on the popcorn. Global Warming hot wars turn bitter nuclear winter cold. A solution for everything???

  • Appreciate what you do for NBL, Tom: an important job of muckraking, only now the volume of muck is getting exponentially larger and the rake remains the same size.

    Appreciate Benjamin the Donkey, still around on Extinction Radio & YouTube!

    Appreciate the contributions of the others to muckraking, coping (and where they cut others down, to coppicing?)

  • 7th Jan 2016. 7:30pm NZ time.

    Clearly the system is in crash mode and TPTB will either pull every trick in the book to stop it crashing or they will allow it to crash. I guess we will know one way or the other in a few weeks.

    WTI $33.07, Brent $33.27 and…..

    ‘Here’s a special update of some key events and data out today.

    Trading on the Shanghai and Shenzhen stock markets has been called off for the day after the CSI 300 Index tumbled -7% by 9.58am local time, triggering the second stage of their ‘circuit breaker’.

    Trading was earlier halted for 15 minutes at 9.42am after the index fell more than -5%. It took just another minute for the index to fall a further -2% when trading resumed, with the markets trading for only 13 minutes in total.

    These markets are now at their lowest point in more than five years.


    And in Australia, data out today revealed a worrying trend in their construction industry. Building consents were down more than -12% in November from October, and are down -8% year-on-year. Analysts were expecting only a minor pullback. Of special concern is the pullback in housing renovation work; that is down a whopping -23% from October, -14% year-on-year.

    The oil price has slumped even further today. Now, both the US and Brent prices are at just US$33/bbl. Prices under US$30 are in sight.

    Gold is up again, now at US$1,100/oz.

    The UST benchmark 10yr bond yield is resuming its slide, now down to 2.18%.

    The NZ dollar has fared fairly well in the circumstances. It is at 66.4 USc, and has risen sharply against the Aussie to 94.3 AUc. The TWI-5 is holding at 72.1.’

  • A Naughty, Alarming, Lewd POEM ENTITLED “ARSEHOLE INJECTED DEATH SENTENCE” by Dr. Lanaise Elana-Alane PhD Canale Analyste (le-Francais)

    A young man came to see Charlie Sheen one fine summers day
    Not unusual you might say, afterall, Sheen’s rich, celeb (and fucking gay)
    And after they’d made lambskinned love (for 25k) (and the victim’d gone his merry old way), Sheen cried out, to his accomplice PA
    “Let the next one in”, “I’ve plenty more disease in my shit and anal mucus to spread about today”!

  • Mouse Utopia:
    In July 1968 four pairs of mice were introduced into a Utopian universe. The universe was a 2.7 m square metal pen with 1.4 m sides. There was no shortage of food or water or nesting material. There were no predators. The only adversity was the limit on space.

    Initially the population grew rapidly, doubling every 55 days. The population reached 620 by day 315, after which the population growth dropped markedly. The last surviving birth was on day 600.

    The period between day 315 and day 600 saw a breakdown in social structure and in normal social behavior. Among the aberrations in behavior were the following: expulsion of young before weaning was complete, wounding of young, increase in homosexual behavior, inability of dominant males to maintain the defense of their territory and females, aggressive behavior of females, passivity of non-dominant males with increased attacks on each other which were not defended against.

    After day 600, the social breakdown continued and the population declined toward extinction. During this period females ceased to reproduce. Their male counterparts withdrew completely, never engaging in courtship or fighting. They ate, drank, slept, and groomed themselves – all solitary pursuits. Sleek, healthy coats and an absence of scars characterized these males. They were dubbed “the beautiful ones.”

    Breeding never resumed and behavior patterns were permanently changed.

    Mouse utopia compared to current events in England:

    1. Caucasian alpha males unable to protect territory/females (i.e cannot/will not fight back against immigration, even though carrying capacity of land clearly exceeded) “Taking our jobs (social roles) and our women!” often used in comedy to mock white nationalists

    2. Caucasian beta males withdrawing (to use computers as a solitary pursuit) – the beautiful ones. Highly aberrant behaviour from this group becoming normalised.

    3. Rise of homosexuality.

    4. Females more aggressive and have less children (caucasian population was starting to level off (which would correspond to day 315 in the mouse experiment) now being expanded artificially by non-caucasian immigration)

  • Thanks to all who post the latest news and updates about current events. I read them all with interest.


    Nemesis posted a documentary of the Kogi indigenous people of Columbia in the previous thread. It turns out that they have been warning us “younger brothers” for decades about climate change and were one of the first peoples to notice melting glaciers in the upper reaches of the Sierra Nevada and report it to the modern civilized man.

    “Ereira directed a documentary called The Heart of The World: Elder Brother’s Warning (1990) for the British Broadcasting Corporation. In this film he documented his unique visits to the Kogi people of Colombia, an indigenous (‘Indian’) ethnic group which survived attempts by the Spanish conquerors to destroy them by retreating high up in the mountainous area of the Sierra Nevada where they live. These meetings were only allowed by the Kogi Mamos who normally restrict any direct interaction with the modern world. In Ereira’s case the Mamos made an exception as they saw him as the filmmaker they wanted to convey their message to the world.

    Ereira regards the Kogi as unique amongst indigenous peoples in the Americas in that they have managed to retain their traditional culture almost entirely intact. Since the 1980s, the Kogi have warned, on the basis of their observation of ecological changes in the Sierra Nevada, that the world is facing an ecological catastrophe. They asked Ereira to make his films about them to warn the rest of the world (and particularly the West) that it needs to radically change its way of living, and its exploitative attitude to the natural world, if it is to avert this catastrophe. Ereira later wrote about the filming of the documentary in his book The Heart of the World (1990). This book has been republished and retitled as The Elder Brothers (1992) and The Elder Brothers’ Warning (2009)”


    What’s the similarity between Exxon and the Kogi? They both knew about climate change decades ago!

    What’s the difference between Exxon and the Kogi? One lied about it and hid it from the world, the other made great efforts to tell the world about it!

    I wrote about the Kogi here and will be posting clips from the documentary here over the next few days… segments of the film where they speak to us younger brothers directly about our ways and how we are harming Mother Earth. Unfortunately, I can only set the start time for each clip but the entire film is well worth watching too :)

    Clip 1:

  • Very interesting how contemplation by some leads to self rather than other. I view inheritance as proof of self and beyond, even DNA suggests. Define love as in blindness it does exist. “Give me babes and I will form as I wish” experiment failed: babes died due to lack of affection.

    What then is reality other than from other? The love from a mother passed on from generation to generation is viewed soul. A perfect entity by what we live life. To break against love is to burden ones consciousness and emotion yet consciousness is the self extension of soul called spirit. Call it dogma or being in agreement; it too is other that validate and accept yet soul remains personal as the damage remains yet consciousness will go beyond the past. A single different door extends uniqueness beyond consciousness by what we live and choose, a burden to soul. To choose is therefore unique based on soul and spirit. That is reality to me for by emotions and rational reasoning we walk in reality.

    Gnosis is knowledge as a path to “salvation” a balance; yet it implies that control is ones self yet in reality it is given, opened as insight rather than in a state of self.

    We attempt knowledge as unlimited yet it is wisdom that is infinite, the mix of bad and good use of knowledge. Why to burden self with the constant quest for knowledge as an addict eating fruits of a tree when what is known is more than enough to translate to wisdom for the continuation of humanity: life.

    Seeking the very foundation of the universe prior to applying knowledge itself to guarantee human existence leaves me flabbergasted, indeed selfish and unwise, a risk unworthy, gnosis or the wet dream of a selfish man convincing ‘others’.

    Is not that the definition of thinking as being god? Like the famed physicists desperately want to convey on every TV set just leads to distance to reality for who is to accept that in consciousness without experience?

    Like none other than self, no holy places beyond personal knowledge? Viewing from self only and not requiring other for agreement based on revelation or experience? Solo is not the path to life but as mentor by soul; teaching and validation for it is the work of many that gives progress not of few.

    It is few that harness and lift self and sheer their flock while in reality it’s one big lie but must for progress, yet followed by wisdom or ignorance or soul and consciousness.

    Is not that acceptance and determines freedom? Selflessness is in my view a virtue, a teacher, a form of progress; chastised by fear, a fear to lead others astray from progress that results in evil, to understand ones impact, social.

    That is why I wrote that knowledge can lead to insanity, visible all around us yet is viewed as scientific progress while we render nature as a playground we master; it is nature that Bats last. Ow well, ascetic doesn’t mean ethics for we understand the universe…. Not. If all knowledge leads to self, doomed we are.

    Together we might understand better as shown in the works of professor McPherson who “merely” quotes the works of thousands of people attempting to work out it’s interconnectivity in his monster essay, I have rarely witnessed; attempted by a single person, yet common among software builders from scratch as a framework they aim for. What’s expected when he roams the world with a powerpoint presentation: to explain it all? Like let’s start from line 1 in the source code and communicate why I conclude what I conclude init();

    So few understand that, as we all seem suddenly to be specialists and teachers while teachers also sometimes need some new ideas, perspectives, alternatives while others do understand the complexity involved and get into it by simplistic contributions, others just are full of self and don’t think of others besides their intended goal of affirmation for edification in consciousness supporting personal progress; very normal.

  • Clip 1: 35:40 to 36:50
    Clip 2: 18:50 to 20:20
    Clip 3: 25:35 to 29:15

  • The iron cage is the brain. It is a neural cage that constructs two virtual realities: mind that appears to be somewhere inside the brain and the world that appears to be “out there”, although it isn’t. The universe is not real. It could be a joke. Therefore we must not take it too seriously.

    “But if we try to maintain this Einstein ideal that there must be such a thing as reality, then we get into lots of logical troubles with quantum mechanics. People have spent 60 years or so, trying very hard to find a way out of those troubles but they haven’t found it. It seems to me very unlikely that such a way exists.”

    – Sir Rudolf Peierls, physicist who played an important role in the development of the atomic bomb.

    Now it’s 90 years or so, and reality is still incompatible with quantum mechanics.

  • Hi to the blogger Henry(the original)

    good to meet you,would you like me to change my name to Henry(the Un-original)to avoid confusion??

    Apologies for the confusion i was unaware till now
    To save confusion,I will call myself by my full birthright name
    Henry .T. Original

  • If you are not Australian and dont get my sarcastic humor please do not be offended.I dont really meanit mate
    p>S only Love(and laughter) remains

  • Seeing is believing lol. I found professor Church’s (@Harvard) attempt an awesome approach by “reversed engineering”. In religion it’s called simply the spirit of life, to accept as is.

  • I’ve posted anew. Catch the latest here.

  • Gerald: yeah, in his most recent post, after a spot-on comment by a regular named Jeremy, Robert Scribbler says this

    McPherson, generally, hasn’t thought through most of the details and leaps immediately to the worst case. It’s good to keep the worst case in mind. But staring into that abyss for too long will ruin your ability to think clearly, as appears to be what has happened with him.

    HAH! HE’S not thinking through the details – like the most obvious: what’s going to make it STOP? And WHEN? He clearly doesn’t get it.

  • Cindy Lane, you are an honest & very smaht prevert. Bless you.

  • Happy Days and Cigarettes

  • Thanks Artleads. Loved that. Really, a lot.

    I have the strangest urge to smoke even.


  • Btw: A figure in “1984” said:

    Reality exists in the human mind, and nowhere else.

    It was Brian, the torturer, who said that :-)

  • Sir Mark Austin, thank you for the kind invitation to Kuku, I feel honored. I tried to say hello there at Kuku, but I don’t know how to post there. I tried, but my post doesn’t get published…

  • Nemesis ~ you can post under “Name/URL” in the dropdown box. and just leave URL blank.

    I’ve noticed when I post on Kuku in Safari my posts don’t go through. Chrome and FF seem to be fine.

    looking forward to seeing you there!

  • Hey thanks, mo flow, after several attempts it finally seems to work!

  • @kevin moore

    Presumably you were referring to the character O’Brien, the inner-party member, whose prime concern was continuance of the mind control and social control systems the party had established.

    Exactly, thanks for correction!

  • you bet Nemesis!

  • yeah, Mother Nature will finally correct all of us!

  • @ Cindy Lane Says:
    January 7th, 2016 at 1:26 am

    Thank you, Cindy, for such a poignant comment. Reading about the evolution of the “Mouse Utopia” and witnessing what is evolving on this planet via the machinations of “humanity” would seem to add further credence to Mandelbrot’s investigation of Fractal Geometries. It is really difficult to say that H. sapiens possesses some faculty that mice and other “lower” life-forms do not, at least according to the former. Thanks again.

  • @Dave Thompson

    Thank you for that video! Hedges did seem to be uncomfortable with the interviewer and even started to pull away before the guy was finished talking. oh,boy.


    I understand your feelings, but I personally don’t feel that sexism trumps racism or vice versa. I don’t think that any act of intolerance trumps another, and to believe so is playing into identify politics, which I find to be rather poisonous, and ultimately distracting.

    Obama won because he was a new face, while Clinton was a part of the intrenched machine. As a New Yorker I can tell you that Clinton being a woman didn’t stop her from having the New York Senate seat given to her as a present by her powerful buddies, nor did it stop her from being handed the position of Secretary of State-both positions that she was unqualified for BTW. As for Bill Cosby, he looks like he’s paying for his crimes now-as well he should. Personally, I could really do without the three of these clowns!

    I find identity politics to be dangerous in that it pits everyone against each other ‘I suffer more than you do, etc. etc. etc.’ And all the while that we are arguing this pointless stuff, the world is going down in flames. What I also don’t like about identity politics is that it focuses so much on blaming the ‘straight white male’ while putting everyone else in a state of victimhood, absolving them from taking any responsibility for their own part in screwing this world. After all, wasn’t Eva Peron a woman who ruined many lives while Guy McPherson, Mike Sliwa and Michael C Ruppert are straight white men who put themselves out on a limb in order to inform us on the truth?

    I chucked identity politics out the window a while back, because I didn’t find that it truly addressed the real problems of racism, sexism, ageism, anti-Semitism, Islamaphobia, etc. It simply obsessed over who was the bigger victim, which group was the wisest when it came to addressing such and such an issue, on and on and on.

    Personally, the most important for me at this point is simply to keep abreast of the end of industrial civilization and how to prepare for it. I also want to start doing the things that I love until I can’t do them anymore.

    I’m taking Guy McPherson’s advice, and I think it’s the most sane advice I’m ever gotten.

  • Please excuse any typos that might appear in above comment.

  • Diane,

    What do you think about Guy McPherson’s frequent references to patriarchy? Do you see that as identity politics?

  • @ Artleads, agree. Patriarchy is rooted in sexism with the feminine being subverted or suppressed.

    @ Diane I was the person who made the comment you seem to object to, I was commenting on Shep’s earlier comment. I was not intending to champion “identity politics”. I even had to look that up, to be honest. I tried to avoid some of what you have objected to, by stating “it’s not a contest”. That said, however, each separate group subject to whatever ‘isms’ is not interchangeable, so I can’t see a way to remove identity from the struggles. The issues as I see it come down to a lack of observation of the golden rule to “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”, which is a universal form of morality, but noted failures in it’s application do pertain to the various “identities” in question, typically, and are failures justified on the basis of those individual identities, as well.

  • @Tom

    There is no duality, no inner and outer, no real and unreal, even mind, body, and spirit, it’s all the same event continually changing and all i can do is marvel at it all, like the geese above.

    Is there some Duality, some Difference of treating Mother Earth in a good way and treating her in a bad way? Is there any Duality of having something to eat or having nothing to eat? Is there some Duality of solid and liquid? When you jump out of some window from the 20th floor, is there any Duality of above and below?

    no inner and outer”

    When you take a cup and you want to fill it with tea, you will find out, if there is any outer and any inner or not. Confuse inner and outer, or ignore it, and your tea might end up on the floor, right?

    Imagine, you say: “Please fill some tea into my cup” and then I pour the tea on the floor. When you say “What are you doing? Should’nt the tea have been poared into my cup?”, I say “Well, don’t mind, there is no difference, no duality of inner and outer anyway”.

    There is the cup of tea right in front of you. Why drink it, why poar it into your body, if there is no inner and outer, no Duality, no Difference of inner and outer anyway?

    What I see, is this:

    Black, white, darkness, light, hot, cold, sweat, bitter, left leg, right leg, left hand, right hand, man, woman, breathing in, breathing out, birth, death, wave, particle ect :

    Dualities, that make up Oneness, Oneness, that makes up Duality. Oneness and Duality are One. No chance, to seperate them.

    You can’t have one without the other, you can’t have Oneness without Duality, you can’t have Duality without Oneness. As soon, as you open your mouth and say “Oneness”, Duality will appear. As soon, as you say “Duality”, Oneness will appear. Two sides, that make up one coin, One coin, that makes up two sides.

    Take a stick:

    You see One stick with Two ends. Take away one end, and the whole stick is gone. Oneness is made of Duality, Duality is made of Oneness.


  • ugotstahwonder,

    As you do so often, you have taken a strong and principled stand. And kudos for your clear and measured explanation of the issue.

  • Nemesis: there you go, doing the same, chasing your own tail. You said it yourself in your bold type, then went ahead and tried to separate them by explaining! It’s just THIS, no distinction. As soon as you open your mouth to speak of it, you lose it. Now i put this topic down and let it rest – end of discussion.

  • Curious about what’s real and what’s simulated?

    Feel encouraged to re-create Chris Burden’s “Trans-Fixed” and then simulate yourself writing a simulated review of the piece.

    During the simulated process of writing, does that pen feel sort of…
    OK, break’s over…everybody back on their head.

    Has anyone experimented with using Roman numerals in the captcha box ?

  • @Tom

    there you go, doing the same, chasing your own tail. You said it yourself in your bold type, then went ahead and tried to separate them by explaining! It’s just THIS, no distinction. As soon as you open your mouth to speak of it, you lose it. Now i put this topic down and let it rest – end of discussion.

    Ah, I see, just THIS, no distinction, so you agree 100% with my viewpoint. I like that, thanks for the conversation :-) But why do you say “you lose it”?! I lose it and you don’t lose it? Isn’t that kind of distinction? :-)

    Anyway, Yeah, let it rest, I do the same, so we are One within distinction. I enjoy my tea and you enjoy your tea, that’s just fine :-)

  • Man, I really enjoy the funny things in life, yes, I do :D :D :D

  • I loved both Tom’s and Nemesis’ descriptions. nothing lost in either.

    interestingly, the various groups of peoples and cultures who have spent thousands of years, over countless generations, deeply studying these matters with all kinds of methods, took the time to go into incredible levels of distinction about all of this stuff. they found it immensely worthwhile.

    western science and its more “naive” acolytes know absolutely nothing of these ideas, of course, and they haven’t lifted a finger to learn. to them it is just “drivel,” even though countless millions of humans, over thousands of years, have found it beyond useful. nope, nothing there for them to learn!

    they are so comfortably happy with extinction served on a silver platter, brought to them in radioactive toxic chemical technicolor glory by their beloved western science.

    they just can’t seem to get enough, actually!

    all the rest besides that lovely extinction is just so much “abject belief” or “ridiculous digression.”

    hey, let’s enjoy our extinction, without seriously questioning every insane impulse that brought us here. especially the insane impulse that drives the attitudes behind western science. no, let’s not look at that, at all. let’s worship that insane impulse, and deride anyone else who does not.

    oh I love it. the funny things in life indeed! :)

  • The vibrations generated by extinctions are required to maintain the balance. Please don’t interfere.

  • interestingly, the various groups of peoples and cultures who have spent thousands of years, over countless generations, deeply studying these matters with all kinds of methods, took the time to go into incredible levels of distinction about all of this stuff. they found it immensely worthwhile.

    Yeah, that’s the funny part of it :-)

    hey, let’s enjoy our extinction

    Is there any way to enjoy extinction? When extinction is completed, nobody will be around to enjoy it.

    Yes, let’s enjoy the funny things in life, because it makes no difference in the face of extinction, does it? No matter if you cry or laugh, it makes no difference in the face of NTE. Crying won’t stop extinction, laughing won’t stop extinction. Can anybody stop extinction at all? According to Doctor Guy McPherson:


  • some seem to enjoy the supreme arrogance that brought our species here just a bit too much for my taste. and they seem very unwilling to let go of that arrogance, even when it has proven to be the most destructive force on Earth.

    even more, I am annoyed that those of us who go out of our way to clarify that our experience of and approach to reality has absolute nothing to do with “abject belief” are still accused by people like Colin of practicing abject belief.

    Colin behaves as if repeating his lies over and over somehow makes them true about us. I find that extremely disrespectful. I’ve pretty much had it with that kind of thing, frankly.

  • Doctor Guy McPherson actually never said “Stop laughing about the funny things of life” either. But he said:

    Do what you love and don’t count on anyone else.

    Yeah, that’s what I learned in life too :-)

    Live up!, Doctor Guy McPherson

  • Each night, when I go to sleep, I die. And the next morning, when I wake up, I am reborn.

    ― Mahatma Gandhi

  • oh I can laugh at all of this, no problem there. I find things like what Bob S says above, and pretty much everything else about all of this, completely hilarious on many vibratory levels.

    and I also don’t find it funny. at all.

    and I find many things worth fighting for, no matter what the end.

    live & die, laugh & love, fight & surrender. full metal jacket of total insanity. I’m down for it all.

  • I never said that extinction is funny. I just said, I enjoy the funny things in live, like Oneness within Duality, like the conversation I had with Tom is funny (no offend intended).

    and I find many things worth fighting for, no matter what the end.

    I, for my part, am pretty tired of fighting. Therefore I left my family and most other people. Therefore I just love loneliness and my gee- tar.

  • Yes, loneliness is one of the best things that ever happened in my life. I just have to go silent, to fulfill my peace within. I know that. I will.



    Here’s a governor who feels he must defend and speak for white women. Apparently, white women are incapable of speaking for themselves. Or maybe the white women belong to him and therefore need his guardianship and “protection?”

  • “Crying won’t stop extinction, laughing won’t stop extinction. Can anybody stop extinction at all? According to Doctor Guy McPherson:


    Especially if you make the following assumptions:

    – That sentient beings (we) aren’t microcosms of the planet, OR

    – That we aren’t the body of the planet (as the Celestine Prophesy suggests we are),

    – That we can’t heal ourselves with out chi,

    – That healing ourselves with our chi is fundamentally different from healing the earth with our/its chi.

  • .
    “There shalt be no navel gazing, except that thou navel gazeth at the holy science.”

    I heard someone comment the other night, in a completely unrelated topic from that of this site, how scientists in modern times have become more closed and narrow minded than even the most ardent of fundamental religionists.

    When I overheard that I thought of NBL and chuckled to myself.

    When that double experiment was performed in 1924 it sure turned science on its head. It pointed to the new paradigm of discovery, one we were obviously supposed to embark on, like letting go of the theory of a flat earth or moving beyond simple animism. It’s supposed to be about intellectual progress and discovery, not keeping your research position.

    That’s when science changed course, closed itself down, and stopped moving forward. The classicists simply couldn’t shift their thinking paradigm and let go of their Newtonian views of objective reality. It would have required a rethink and a possible tweaking of the scientific method. Instead, they closed their minds and stopped the forward march of scientific discovery dead in its tracks right up to this very day.

    Who knows where we could be at today if this pouty refusal to look at the evidence hadn’t taken place within the scientific community. Maybe we wouldn’t even be going extinct, but we’ll never know that now. What happened, happened.

    They’ve dug their heels in so hard that I indeed agree they are now more closed and narrow minded than even the worst of the fundamental religionists, just on the opposite end of the spectrum is all. They appear to be victims of that deadly all or nothing thinking, unwilling to explore the grey areas, or advance into new paradigms of thought based on observations and evidence.

    The request to eliminate all discussions apart from just staring every day at the same unchanging phenomenon, and commenting on how it’s never going to change, but let’s keep staring at it, and only it, seems like an apt reflection of this fixation on sameness and constancy that stopped the movement forward in science in the first place, like a form of delusion or insanity. Like a bad thought crept into scientific thinking somewhere back in 1924. Maybe it was the fame and prestige scientists were gaining at the time, which can feed the ego and lead to an addiction to maintaining one’s position in life, rather than a focus on the task at hand, which they seem to have abandoned at that point in history.

    Science used to be a method of discovery. Too bad that stopped in 1924 and instead became an agent against change.

    I do note that diversions into raving about Jews, or displaying homophobia seem to be acceptable diversions from the usual monotony of the science navel gazing here. Thanks for your excellent observation mo flow. Oh lord the gift of Gius, to see ourselves as others see us. How someone could read the same day’s newspaper over and over and over, and yet still consider it news each time, is a real mystery to me. Oh, but wait, there’s always that same tired old cartoon from Gerald to laugh at each day, over and over and over.

    It reminds me of trained monkeys some times, complete with nice hats and pants.

    Zzzzzzzzzzzz. Do wake me up if something new happens around here, would you please mo flow?

    Wait, I hear the sound of rationalizations stirring, would someone please turn on some music so I can continue my nap. :)

    Good questions Artleads.

  • About the Iron Cage:

    Too many people of the modern, rich, industrialized countries just don’t want to leave the Iron Cage, they prefere to stay in it at all costs. Is there any need, any reason to try to free people from that Iron Cage, if they want to stay in it at all costs? Most people I met are willing to get real angry, if you try to free them. So why should anyone try to free them? I got hurt often very badly, when I tried to free those people, they attack me like Hell, so I think, it would be better to leave em in their beloved cages, there they are “safe” from me and I am safe from them. So, it might be better to leave the beasts in their cages, muhahaha 8-)

  • @Ray Batman

    Ok, I’m becoming tiresome. But I’m just a collection of atoms obeying the laws of physics and there is no mental causation, and my mind hasn’t any causal power.

    Don’t worry. Getting tiresome is just a hallucination, according to your very own comments ;-)

  • Nutty Squirrel had to run SOLIVAGANT’s grain of truth back here:

    questioning reality might be a wise course of action. It’s reflective of what’s brought society to its current condition that voicing an unpopular, different opinion brings out savage attacks on the messenger, regardless of the source of the message. ” The human mind treats a new idea the way the body treats a strange protein — it rejects it.” Strange that an idea that’s over a century old now still meets with general rejection. I like Arthur Eddington’s take on reality; something unknown is doing we don’t know what. To imagine, as Kelvin did, that we know everything, is the standard human hubris that causes us not to just ignore other points of view, but actively, violently reject them. So respect to you for putting up with the attacks from those who harbour a false sense of certainty. And for anyone who isn’t absolutely certain that they know everything

  • For my part:

    I never said that I know “everything”, I don’t need to know “everything”. But I know some things I need to know for my very own personal purpose. If someone knows it different for his very own purpose, no problem, that’s just fine.

  • Other Henry — g’day, mate! No need to change name, my computer now defaults to this, and it was time for me to change myself, after 3 years. How’s about we make it, you retain the title, until I can move myself more south than you? Presently live at 47 deg. N lat, aiming for something equivalent to the South. Hold it, let me check Oz on my map. OK, Puerto Montt almost beats Hobart. And Wellington. Much more space in the comfort zone to the south.

    EtyerePetyere — I’ve parked in that garage on 4th. I’ve also stood in the doorway of a hundred-year old brick building on Capitol Hill during the Nisqually earthquake, and heard the bricks grinding together as the building contemplated departing this existence, with me along. I bargained, all right. “Get me out of this one, oh Whoever Lord Whatever, and I’ll never live in this (or any?) city again.”

    Satish — thanks for those video clips, which I’ll keep open until time allows me through them all. I’m going near those mountains next week, and probably not into, but you’ve raised my curiosity, and my wish to add them to another trip. There was a phase where I was curious about the highest agricultural village in each nation, and found a list on Wikipedia that cited those mountains, and the freakiness of them being right up next to the Caribbean tropics.

    I probably won’t be back to this thread, time and work being as they are, so THANKS to all for giving a satisfying 4 a.m. excursion into the vestigial intelligence of our species.