Earth Egg

I’m re-posting below an essay, verbatim, from 17 July 2009. Consistent with my usual recent pattern, I’m adding a few introductory words and an embedded song.

I was interviewed for the latest, and perhaps last, episode of Extinction Radio. Catch the 20-minute interview here.

“Man has gone out to explore other worlds and other civilizations without having explored his own labyrinth of dark passages and secret chambers, and without finding what lies behind doorways that he himself has sealed.”

~ Stanisław Lem


There’s been a lot of recent chatter on the Internet about escaping Earth for another place to live. Apparently awareness is growing with respect to the inability of humans to survive on this planet. Having passed a few dozen Rubicons, the financial elite are looking for an exit. For them, of course.

And, yes, I know the bumper sticker is a joke. And I can tell them, too.


The bumper sticker starts with bold type: EARTH FIRST!
The second line is smaller: We’ll mine the other planets later.
The very notion that we can rely on other planets for resources after we trash this one is ignorant and offensive. I’ll start with the offensive part before discussing the ignorant part.

First, ethics: Did these people learn nothing in kindergarten? Never mind treating every single thing as a resource, placed here (and apparently everywhere) specifically for human consumption. Do they have no problem obliterating the living Earth in the name of economic growth? Do they have no problem committing future generations to hell on Earth, as long as they get “their” share of the planetary pie?

Consensus around an ethical argument requires agreement about ethical behavior. Apparently that’s beyond us, as a species. Onward, then to the overwhelming technological challenges faced by co-opting the resources of other planets as if they are our own.

An overwhelming majority of Americans (and citizens of the world, for that matter) think Earth is a mere stopover for a better future. The future lasts forever, and the destination is heaven. There is no need to conserve this planet’s resources if the rapture is near. Never mind that the planet’s days were seriously numbered, according to Jesus during his own time — specifically, to the generation populating the planet when Jesus was preaching. The rapture has been right around the corner for at least two millennia.

Even many secular people believe Earth is an egg. Once needed, we will simply abandon this ship for another planet. How stupid is this view? Quantitative skills have never been revered in this country, so it’s no surprise most people think we can simply plan the journey and load up the rich folks (including all middle-class Americans, of course) on a few minutes’ notice. Let’s actually do the math.

The following analysis is adapted from my 2005 book, Killing the Natives. Numbers are from NASA’s website, accessed in 2004. I suspect the situation has become considerably less tractable during the last five years.

The space shuttle represents the pinnacle of the manned space program, so I use it as the basis for this analysis. Endeavour, the latest addition to the fleet, cost $1.7 billion to construct. Current cost to launch the shuttle is $300 million for the first 8 launches each year, then $90 million for the subsequent 2 annual launches on the rare occasions they are possible. A variety of logistical constraints limit NASA to 10 launches each year. For purposes of this analysis, I assume a single craft can be ramped up to carry 10,000 people (vs. 7, a 1,400-fold increase) with no increase in cost. I further assume NASA will overcome the many constraints on the number of annual launches, so that — starting next week — 20 shuttles per day can be launched (vs. 10 per year, a 730-fold increase). For simplicity, I assume each launch will cost only $90 million. Finally, I assume the increased number of launches will come at no cost to human life, in contrast to the 2% failure rate currently exhibited by shuttle flights (a failure rate of 2% translates to 4,000 human deaths each day).

Why 20 shuttles per day? With 10,000 people on board, we must launch 20 shuttles each day just to keep up with current population growth. This rate of emigration gets rid of the 200,000 extra people born each day, compared to those who die. Thus, we will barely keep pace with current population growth.
These very conservative figures suggest a daily cost of $34 billion to build the 20 required shuttles and an additional $1.8 billion to launch them. Thus, the cost for a year’s worth of launches exceeds $13 trillion, or about 30% more than the annual gross doomestic [that’s not a typo] product of the U.S.
A condom, on the other hand, costs less than a dollar. Thirteen trillion bucks will buy a lot of condoms, thereby sparing us the daunting task of shipping our extra progeny to space and having to worry about finding a new planet when we’ve mined this one beyond all possible of repair.

In addition to the daunting economic challenges facing space travelers — which, after all, can be overcome by the printing presses Obama and his gang of Keynesian neo-cons have running at full speed already — there is the more significant set of constraints imposed by the laws of physics. For example, the nearest star beyond our sun that might support life is Alpha Centauri, at a distance of 4.3 light-years. Thus, the nearest planet potentially (but improbably) capable of supporting human life is about 25 quadrillion miles away (that’s 25 million million miles, sports fans). No physicist believes it is possible to travel anywhere near the speed of light. If we could, the 4.3 light-years would be traversed in 4.3 years. Since there is no sunlight to produce energy along the way, the shuttle would have to be modified to carry enough energy to push the vessel and support the needs of passengers. No reasonable scenarios have been developed to support such an effort.

Two additional constraints are obvious. First, a vessel traveling at the speed of light would be destroyed upon striking an ounce or so of particulate matter. As currently designed the shuttle cannot withstand being struck by small pieces of foam at velocities considerably less than the speed of light. If the ship survives the constant assault from small stellar bodies, it likely will accrue mass from interstellar dust. The accumulated dust will significantly slow the ship’s speed. Second, there is no guarantee that a planet in Alpha Centauri’s orbit will support human life. There is a very good chance that 25 quadrillion miles is merely the first leg of a very long voyage.

These significant obstacles notwithstanding, the greatest constraints on interstellar travel are based not on economics or logistics, but on human psychology. Given the acute constraints on cargo, people on interstellar flights will have to live with essentially no conveniences. There could be virtually no bathing (water would be far too valuable), no washing clothes (but there would be very few clothes to wash, in any event), no food except that absolutely necessary for survival, and so on. Due to the extremely high cost associated with transporting each ounce of material, this would be a bare-bones journey. And because there will be no room for resources or extra bodies, the travelers will have to forgo reproduction at least until they find the next planet to colonize. By the most optimistic accounts, this will take many years; more realistic scenarios suggest that finding a new home will require several generations of space travel, indicating that reproductive rights must be restricted for several generations. The people who are willing to make these sacrifices, and who therefore serve as suitable candidates for interstellar travel, are badly needed here on Earth. The people we really need to dispatch are the ones who are unqualified for space travel: They can restrain themselves neither with respect to procreation nor acquisition and use of material possessions.

If we’re “successful,” we need to ask the ecological literate question: “And then what?” We’re still on the brink of ecological disaster here on Earth, and we’ve managed to export the predicament of ecological overshoot to another planet. And this seems like a good idea?

Comments 241

  • “Planet Earth is blue and there’s nothing I can do.” Major Tom

  • Let’s build a time machine and return to the early 1950s, when it was still possible to believe in humans travelling through space and still possible to believe in progress.

  • This gets good at about 28:00 minutes in:

  • “Juggling chickens and chainsaws”

  • The Lord God gave the man this order: You are free to eat from any of the trees of the garden except the tree of knowledge of good and evil. From that tree you shall not eat; when you eat from it you shall die.

    And when monkey stopped eating from other trees: there was fire, hunters, build houses, farming crops, molding metals, harnessing oil, live like kings, creating technology and all the evil in between and “then” we find the path to death, we all work so fast and hard on, faster, faster, harder, Work harder. Such was basically foretold by all the “messengers”, repent, change your ways, only Kings and Monarchy, natural responsibility, wisdom & knowledge to the select advisors, etc. Men wanted to know more, more, more and have more, more, more and decide more, more, more disregarded the path that was life; protected by the cherubim who used the social hierarchy against all, so we humans would not find it, now scientists are called Green leftists, that’s how great that “servant” bend all paths away.

    If you reverse engineer that Genesis 2:16 it is more true than anything ever said to us humans.

    Only God is the stupid ape species Saviour, Who said: “From that tree you shall not eat; when you eat from it you shall die.” not some new paganistic feel good religion with an individual who promises total freedom and life, only celebrating, Party yeah, with a Father who loves every little being: based on conviction, disregarding riches and the wickedness it cascaded, loosing All control, justified by faith & loving, Yeah right, since when did God become unrighteous?

    Abraham is the perfect example of how responsibility and accountability should have been accepted, accepting that his righteousness & responsibility was the measure to entrust wealth instead of leaving a path of utter destruction like we see all around us…

    Surely God will safe the “elect”… what good have we done to be rewarded? Or what good will we humans do? Most of us don’t even understand what good is, they think it’s a feeling caused by the movement of the tongue causing a chemical reaction in the receiver, others think it’s to prolong individual life by health at the expense of many future generations, etc. We seem incapable anymore as the rejection of truth was at the heart of the message as even physics agrees upon, yet even with knowledge has been utterly rejected as it doesn’t hold “public opinion” or “projected economic growth” or meet the “dogmatic consensus”, the latest added to the list “peace”. “They” will certainly be raptured and they will meet their lord in the clouds as the water flows from their dead corpses into the ground evaporating into the atmosphere as all their ancestors already have; simple natural cycle. If God will safe us humans remains to be seen, doing evil I guess won’t impress Him. That is His choice and not ours to make.

  • Marc Haneburght’s YouTube video with Guy today is outstanding, the music relaxes people enough to maximize information exchange, I love the voice-music-slidshow presentation. One of Guy’s best works yet.

    Go to YouTube and search,

    2016 Runaway Climate Change * Leading Scientist * Economy Collapse * Troubling


    You can find another superlative presentation of Kevin Anderson’s latest effort which compliments Guy’s effort. These 2 guys should got married and had kids a la The Odd Couple.

    Go to YouTube and search,

    Kevin Anderson RIA Presentation (with slides)


    For today’s essay,

    Will get to work after I walk my dawgs.

    Old BeezleyBillyBub got his groove back on the Collapse Sub-reddit.

    Why Collapse Is Not Climate Change And Why There Is Nothing We Can Do About It from collapse

  • I dream of coherent sentences and inchoate thoughts,
    or vice versa… or something.

  • Cowgirl Apocalypse Haiku #133

    Baby rattlesnake
    seeks warmth and food too early-
    crushed by dim cyclist.

  • Interesting to see a few “opening day” baseball games impacted by cold weather and even snow.

    The news anchors said things like “so much for global warming” …

    We’ll see what they say in August/September – too hot to play?

  • Some folks at NBL are praying for NTE as soon as possible, they want to see humankind go extinct completely. But hey, folks, even suicide is a movement of life, a search for a better realm, may it be silent, still, dead, it is STILL A TRY TO ESCAPE, muhahaha. These folks got stuck between life and death, they aren’t strong enough, to end their life with their very own hand, so they pray for extinction of complete humankind instead. Yes, I do understand that. But nevertheless, these folks are fuckin egotists, their mouths are full of death-talking, but they never realized the real reality of Death. Believe it or not:

    There is NO escape, neither in life nor in death :-)

    Tell me:

    Is decadence and collective suicide the final conclusion of rationalism, science, materialism and shit? While at the same time laughing at the Spirit? Hahaha :-D Is THAT what it’s all about, finally, rationally, scientifically?! Decadent, collective suicide ?!

    Man, come on, what a FUNNY, FUNNY SHAME 8-)

    ” A change in external circumstances without inner renewal is a materialist’s illusion, as though man were only a product of his social circumstance and nothing else.”

    – Jürgen Moltmann

  • Funny, “scientific”, suicidal materialism has always been part of the problem, it has NEVER been part of the solution.

    Dear zombies of Empire, just go on searching for suicide and death, you will surely find what you are looking for, soon. And meanwhile:

    Just laugh at the Spirit, muhahaha 3:-)

  • The Tenets of Ecocosmology

    All planets are an egg which separates the eggheads from those who want to live.

  • Latest data indicate the unprecedented Arctic ice melt has continued. A 2015-type mid-April refreeze looks increasingly unlikely. The next few weeks will be extremely interesting.

    Day millionkm2
    24th 14.523
    25th 14.521 2,000km2
    26th 14.482 39,000
    27th 14.446 36,000
    28th 14.413 33,000
    29th 14.375 38,000
    30th 14.320 55,000
    31st 14.280 40,000
    1st 14.241 39,000
    2nd 14.193 48,000
    3rd 14.138 55,000

  • Even as the El Niño of 2015-16 winds down, coral reefs remain threatened by the longest episode of global-scale bleaching on record. NOAA announced in October 2015 that the third global bleaching event had begun, with reefs from the Florida Keys to Fiji suffering widespread damage over the past year. In February, NOAA scientists announced that the bleaching event was the longest on record. The event is a result of widespread ocean warming related to long-term climate change as well as regional warmings triggered by El Niño, which began in early 2015. The prolonged nature of the bleaching event is especially worrisome because it allows for multiple years of damage during seasonal peaks in upper-ocean temperature, giving the reefs less time to recover. “We may be looking at a 2- to 2½-year-long event,” said Mark Eakin, coordinator of NOAA’s Coral Reef Watch program. “Some areas have already seen bleaching two years in a row.”

  • I wanted to include Paul for a foursome but knew it would take hours to find the right video.

  • Interesting site – shows the daily/annual impact humans are having on the globe – population, pollution, production, etc.

    Each item lists the source of the data as well.

  • Is reverse photosynthesis “a game changer, one that could transform the industrial production of fuels and chemicals, thus serving to reduce pollution significantly”?

  • mod note ~

    Callaghan, please keep your (frequently inane and purely self promoting) posts to two max per day here. any day. thanks a bunch.

    this is I believe your second warning from me. going into delete mode next time.

    ~ mo

  • BILL T – Respecting NBL rules of 2 posts, I will provide more for you about South Korea reactor “Consequence Management” in comments under Guy’s previous article. The bulletin for Atomic Scientists has fallout mapping and predicted leak spread charts for the top 100 reactors worldwide. for HANBIT & HANUL provides charts of the 2015 emergency shutdown. Tritium leak measured by Minchul Kim. Central Intel KHNP might send me more on HANUL but my security clearance is now only for my contract with companies connected to (Max Planck) constructing neuronal transduction signal aspects of the DARPA blue brain project.

    G.E. & Westinghouse are very strict about suppressing public access to studies of catastrophic nuclear meltdowns. All NRC employees and those who work with nuclear energy companies are required to sign non-disclosure legal forms. You have to read between the lines to even be able to say Fukishima is a potential non-human ELE. Las Vegas Nevada “Our skills and technologies for fielding complex experiments continue to transition to a primary mission of science-based stewardship of the nation’s nuclear weapons stockpile. These same skills have also served as the basis to develop ultrasonic and space based radiation tracking in conjunction with NASA & DARPA.” I will be at Nellis AFB this Thur.
    Looking into buying the town of LIDIA Nevada because it has telescopic visual proximity to Nellis AFB area 5 technology development compounds. I’ll write more about procuring Lida NV next week.

    South Korean officials said they are delaying the start of operations by a year to 2015 and 2016 in order to replace the cables at Shin Kori Nos. 3 and 4, the article said. That brings to six the number of reactors that are currently shut down until control cables are replaced after officials found they were supplied with forged certificates. The forgeries led to the indictment of 100 people, including a former chief executive at Korea Hydro and Nuclear Power (KHNP) and a vice president at Korea Electric Power Co (KEPCO).

    The energy minister said “a U.S. company would likely manufacture the replacement cables.” —- Look at the links I provide to Central Intel charts and you can see WESTINGHOUSE is listed for most Korean contracts, however G.E. is now making major bid. The development thousands of Small Mag Reactors for everyone to have in their backyard is a huge deal. The pro-nuclear side wants to compete with solar panels. Selling SMR installation as safer and more efficient than going solar per household.

    We are running a BLUE BEAM public group test at the Mandalay hotel and at the Freemont Street Experience in Las Vegas April 7th & 8th. I will be staying this weekend in Vegas at the Tahiti resort.

    April 10-17 I’m at – Guy has friends in Sedona and I will always have a guest room and food for Guy if he visits.

    April 10-21 I will be at my Father’s ranch outside Tucson. Guy has the exact address. Steven Spielberg’s mother Leah was interested in Guy’s videos last fall. Steve’s mother Leah is now 96. When Steven & his sister were growing up in Arizona, Leah was politically active. John Mc Cain and many others in charge of Biodefense and Black Rock Media programing will be attending the Bday party. Scripps Corp jet return to FLL private executive airport.

    I depart Jupiter harbor May 1, but will only go as far south as Palm Beach (Mar-a-largo private dock) then Boca Raton as we slowly sail south. Miami, CUBA then on to Costa Rica west coast via Panama canal transit.

    Congress passed the emergency measures for Marshall Law and OBAMA to stay in office (cancel elections) if Cyber & Biowar get really “hot” this fall. The laws passed & military ACTIONS in actual progress speak much louder than words. Look at all the largest coordinated multinational military drills ever conducted in history increasing since 2014. Specific movements and military deals with China. This level of war planning is not really about one gvt against the other. At some point things are going to get so “hot’ a global war will be more profitable than maintaining the consumer economy. The control of human resources is very important if you can see how the global parties do work together. It is amazing I have the freedom to post any of this here. Xi Jingping is enforcing stricter internet controls. He also knows there are other ways to deal with population rather than the 2 child policy. CRISPR & induced pandemics will be launched rather than watching it all crumble in a abrupt heatwaves. Extinction level events can happen long before 2030

  • Last Month Was The Hottest March In The Global Satellite Record, And The Arctic Is Still Sizzling

    [someone asked how March stacked up in last thread; this from Joe Romm]

    Drought-hit Palau could dry up totally this month

  • Thank you Mark!

  • Kirk here…you can call me ‘captain’ if you like. Scotty has pulled a special trick out of his hat so I could send you this message: If you can hang in there for another 600 years, we can do Alpha Centauri with our eyes closed! Hey, there’s already a plaque with my name on in Riverside, Iowa, your time! So, don’t let us down. Star Fleet is counting on you!

  • @ mark austin …

    You speak SO much but yet SAY so little. Frankly, your ongoing droning/namedropping etc, IMHO, has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the subject matter ( e.i. meat & potatoes) of this forum.

    May I be so curt as to ask a few simple, yet compelling questions of you?

    Simply for a bit of context of course Mark …

    How old are you?

    Are you married?

    Do you have children and/or grandchildren?

    …and … last but not least (and as inconceivable as it may sound) …

    What is it specifically that you do on a day-to-day basis to earn an income ( e.i. continue to support ’empire’?)

    Additionally, rather than droning on about this or that, change it up a bit and tell us …

    1.) something we don’t already know

    2.) In lieu of that … something that may actually benefit (in any way whatsoever) the rank and file daily readers of this forum.

    Sheeshhhh … Is it just me or are you simply a grade-A bore?

    No one here is mesmerized or scintillated by your Orwellian doublespeak.

    Some original material ……PPPPUUULLLEEZZZzzzzzzz

    Respectfully Submitted,


  • Mark,

    Many appreciate your comments and find them to be unique, fact-filled, and insightful. Few on this board have your knowledge into the inner workings of DARPA and other agencies around the globe.

    I would encourage fred to listen to the NBL podcast you did with the Dr. McPherson in Dec 2015 – very interesting – and facts/original material laden.

    I am not a scientist, but it seems to me that the 450 or so nuclear power stations around the globe do pose a threat to NTE and are therefore very relevant to this board. What if the electrical supply to several power stations is knocked out but natural or human actions? What if the power supplies went out for 45 – 60 days. Likely you have even more frightening scenarios, that 99.99% of humanity does not even know about.

    Several Fukishimas happening simultaneously could be very problematic?

    “Juggling chickens and chainsaws.”

    So – thanks again.

  • For all you old rockers out there. :-)

    Eric Clapton – Danger

    It snowed here last night and today. I ain’t complainin’ either.

  • Every year was hotter than the last now every month hottest recorded soon every day hottest .. abrupt global warming. I wish someone would have picked up the hockey stick kept that blade on the ice to receive a pass

  • Come on, Guy. Interstellar travel is *so* 2009. Hard-nosed realists today focus on Martian colonization, and I assume the next step after that in the Great Human Journey is the cloud cities of Jupiter.

  • Batman Says:
    April 4th, 2016 at 11:15 am

    “Is reverse photosynthesis “a game changer, one that could transform the industrial production of fuels and chemicals, thus serving to reduce pollution significantly”?”

    Some folks are hopeless techno-fix addicts.

  • Hey Doc: (McPherson)
    Time to start banning the trolls ? I vote yes.

  • At last some good news.

    Trust in so-called leaders has plummeted in NZ:


    9. Local government – 12 per cent (down 37 per cent)

    10. Corporations and large businesses – 11 per cent (down 37 per cent)

    11. Government ministers – 10 per cent (down 49 per cent)

    12. TV and print media – 8 per cent (down 40 per cent)

    13. Members of parliament – 8 per cent (down 54 per cent)

  • Meet Alexandra Elbakyan – The 27 Year Old Student Who Put 50 Million Stolen Research Articles Online

  • i’d like to get in touch with some of the commenters here, particularly daniel and lidia. i can be reached at

  • kevin moore Says:
    April 4th, 2016 at 9:54 pm

    “At last some good news.

    Trust in so-called leaders has plummeted in NZ:”

    Great news! Thanks for that, good info!

  • “No physicist believes it is possible to travel anywhere near the speed of light. If we could, the 4.3 light-years would be traversed in 4.3 years.”

    On the contrary, Professor Emeritus of Astronomy Esko Valtaoja believes that this is possible and fusion powered spaceships will be developed which will reach at least 20 % of the speed of light. Then it is possible to travel to Alpha Centauri in 20 years. Valtaoja predicts that this will happen already in 2778.

  • Coal plants use enough water to supply 1 billion people: Greenpeace

    Coal plants are draining an already dwindling global water supply, Greenpeace warned on Tuesday, consuming enough to meet the basic needs of one billion people and deepening a worldwide crisis.

    Announcing its first global plant-by-plant study, Greenpeace said coal power use will increase with newly built plants, causing “huge stress” on the world’s major river basins and threatening communities.

  • Tuesday, 5 April 2016
    Arctic sea ice extent at a record low for the time of the year

    Record Arctic Warming

    On April 3rd, 2016, Arctic sea ice extent was at a record low for the time of the year, reports the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC).

    The Arctic has warmed more than elsewhere on Earth. Surface temperatures over the past 365 days were more than 2.5°C or 4.5°F higher than they were in 1981-2010.

    Thanks kevin, for keepin’ us up to date on this. At the end of this post, like he usually does, Sam Carana calls for action, though it’s far too late for any human action to “fix” the situation and wouldn’t return the climate to what it once was anyway.

  • Mod. comment:

    @Sam Miller – thanks for commenting, but your comment is being withheld. Please feel free to try again and direct your comment at views or ideas, not at individuals.

  • Interesting timing

    @Mark Austin

    Hampton North Hampton Patch,
    1 April, 2016

    SEABROOK, NH – The U.S. Department of Homeland Security announced today that the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) will conduct a “full-scale” training exercise at the NextEra Energy Seabrook Station Nuclear Power Plant located in Seabrook on April 8, 2016. The exercise if being organized by FEMA, the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, and state and local emergency management officials

    “This exercise allows federal teams to examine the ability of the participating local, state and utility officials to protect the health and safety of the public living near the Seabrook Nuclear Power Plant in the event of a radiological release,” according to Bruce Brodoff of the FEMA. “FEMA will observe and evaluate governmental responses. The NRC will observe and evaluate the on-site performance of Seabrook Nuclear Power Plant staff.”

    Officials from communities in both New Hampshire and Massachusetts, within a 10-mile radius of the plant, are being requested to activate their emergency operations centers during the exercise, according to a press statement.

  • wrong as it sounds, hope is all we really have. i hope it doesn’t rain…i hope i find a job, a mate, a woolly mammoth skull…my car keys, my wallet,…a bathroom.

  • WHO is responsible?! Have fun:

    THEY will go DOWN together with rest, muhahaha :-)

    @Mark Austin

    Don’t forget to focus the funny, funny, suicidal “elite” (wow!) with that blue beam, they need it the most 8-)

  • … seems like that blue beam of love already hit me, because I LOVE to know, that the funny, corrupt, cheating, lying, (auto-)brainfucking and exploiting “elite” will go down with the rest 3:-)

    Bon voyage.

  • i hope they find a cure for humanity…and humidity.

  • Since first posting this quote (from the movie “Five Million Years to Earth”) some time ago, the truth of it is reconfirmed again and again even here… So in case you missed it the first time…

    Professor Bernard Quatermass: “The will to survive is an odd phenomenon. Roney, if we found out our own world was doomed, say by climatic changes, what would we do about it?”
    Dr. Mathew Roney:” Nothing, just go on squabbling like usual”.

  • digixplor; maybe “move to California”?

  • ‘hope is all we really have’

    Only 19,000km2 of ice cover was lost in the latest update.

    On the other hand, wherever there is a money trough, a corrupt greedy human will have his/her snout in it. :

  • George Carlin, “We Like War!”

  • One of us, for sure. St George:

  • WASHINGTON (AP) — Man-made global warming is making America sicker, and it’s only going to get worse, according to a new federal government report.

    The 332-page report issued Monday by the Obama administration said global warming will make the air dirtier, water more contaminated and food more tainted. It warned of diseases, such as those spread by ticks and mosquitoes, longer allergy seasons, and thousands of heat wave deaths.

    Environmental Protection Agency chief Gina McCarthy said if that’s not enough, climate change affects people’s mental health, too.

    “It’s not just about polar bears and melting ice caps. It’s about our families. It’s about our future,” McCarthy said at a White House event unveiling the report.

    Climate change affects more people in more ways than anything doctors have seen in the past, said Surgeon General Vivek Murthy. He said the report allows doctors to better quantify “the sheer number of pathways through which climate affects health.”

    That includes air pollution worsened from power plants, pollen and even wildfires, he said.

    “Not being able to breathe is one of the most frightening experience” for people, Murthy said. “We’re talking about scary moments for parents and children.”

    Asthma is already the No. 1 cause of children going to the hospital and “now we’re seeing it worsening because of the heat, the allergens,” and air pollution, said Lynn Goldman, dean of the George Washington University’s public health school.

    White House science adviser John Holdren highlighted heat waves, saying that even with some reduction in emissions of heat-trapping gases globally, “we can see thousands to tens of thousands of heat-related deaths in the United States each summer.”

    Centers of Disease Control and Prevention computer simulations of 209 cities show that extra summer heat deaths will outweigh fewer winter cold deaths from climate change, said CDC’s Shubhayu Saha, a study lead author.

    Holdren said the report is based on more than 1,800 published scientific studies and new federal research, and was reviewed by the National Academies of Sciences.

    “The report clearly establishes that climate change is a major threat to public health in the United States,” said Howard Frumkin, dean of the University of Washington’s public health school, who wasn’t part of the report. He said the government isn’t doing enough. “There is a vast disconnect between the magnitude of the problem, as outlined by this report, and the response of government health agencies.”

    The report:

  • richards, if fukushima hadn’t already destroyed the west coast, i probably would look for my wallet there.

  • TOM does a really good job posting the sort of news that I also find interesting. I read things and say to myself I bet Tom will post that. K. Moore & Dredd and others are excellent on data facts. So when I get a moment I just thought it would be different to add stuff about my work or POV that might include the way I see and experience “Empire”. I have total respect for CINDY LANE getting after me about chatting with ARTLEADS about smart drugs. I once made a typo about 2012 rather than 2002 Syn Corp (Supreme court genetic manipulation case) Last year I also shared dumb Washington D.C. office gossip about FEMA coffins. I was wrong. But heck life inside Empire is mostly wrong or we would not be heading toward extinction. I’m really sorry the rare time Guy comments here involves a 2030 date issue with Daniel. “TRUTH” starring Robert Redford & Cate Blanchette is all about the big picture TRUTH getting sidetracked over typos and memos and small questionable details that might have been wrong but were nothing compared to original case they were presenting against GEORGE BUSH and the CBS media increased market share deal approved on Fed level pushed by wall street. For some the big picture of Empire destroying everything is more important than questions with dates. In the CBS anchor case the big truth behind the SEC deal & BUSH got totally excused by focusing the public on a much small scandal they could understand in sound bites. I guess it’s the same problem trying to condense massive new developments inside Empire into a comment paragraph.

    FRED – I’m really glad you and a few others know more than myself. It is very true that most things have been in development even before I was born in 1962. Prior to my birth my father was an Arizona congressman. He took my pregnant mother to see the Nevada atomic tests. I was born slightly blue in color and with webbed fingers on my left hand. So yeah, I’m a semi mutant son born with some problems and the privilege of lifetime connections to Mc Cain, Spielberg and many more connected to politics in Arizona in the 1970’s. Funny but my defects have also been assets. When I was a baby young Steve Spielberg was making his first student films in Arizona. He thought I was an “Alien” child. So later when I went to college at USC I got to work on E.T. and many other productions till I took off sailing around the Pacific ocean in 1991. Later I returned to take McPhersons class at UofA. Personally I think we are all very connected here on NBL in ways we have yet to discover. On a basic level I mostly live off solar panels on a large sailboat. I clean tons of plastic off beaches and volunteer to protect turtle nests. On the other hand, yeah, I’m working on a portion of a NASA project that could become a nightmare. I’ve been divorced. Danced naked at Burning man, Had a long affair with an FBI agent, taken illegal drugs…much less smart ones. Been a 34 years survivor of the AIDS crisis. Lived in a Costa Rica treehouse and fought their president to create a national wildlife preserve. Then joined a NSA team creating Homeland Security after 911. Everything in my life is a mix of contradictions. Lot’s of duality in my reality. I’ve been combating nuclear nightmares and HIV for decades. Born this way. Obviously will die someday, but I keep surviving and finding all sorts of surprises on the edge of extinction.

    Energy, Environment, Entertainment we are a collective story of issues on NBL. MO FLOW has more personal info on me than probably anyone other here on NBL. Lately I’m not even afraid to post my cell number and e-mail. Hugs to Sir NEMISIS…Death teaches us life. “The day after tomorrow” The statue of SHIVA dancing in front of CERN or a DARPA blue brain will awake. Mayan code of honor: “I am another – yourself.”

  • Why Not Space?
    From the blog
    Do the Math
    Using physics and estimation to assess energy, growth, options—by Tom Murphy
    (Tom Murphy is an astrophysicist with NASA and the University of California San Diego. His NASA job is measuring and documenting the movements of the moon to centimeter accuracy by laser interferometry with laser reflections from mirrors left on the moon by the Apollo astronauts.)
    This blog post also links to a relevant blog post at the Archdruid Report on the same topic by John Michael Greer.

    It must be remembered that interstellar travel, even at significant fractions of light velocity will involve decades on board the vehicle, even with proportionate time contraction due to relativistic effects. It will mandate recycling matter to produce food for the duration, and an effective source of energy when too distant from suns. None of the US or Soviet biosphere experiments, including the Biosphere 2 attempts had a satisfactory outcome. This over a couple of years, not the decades that would elapse in interstellar travel.

  • Yes, there’s no space. “All objects of reality always exist in this [spaceless timeless superposition] state – even we ourselves… The world is not as real as we think. As a matter of fact it is not real at all.”

    – Prof F.Moser (Chem.Eng.), Graz University

  • @ Guy

    Guy you stated: “I reached my conclusion about near-term human extinction due to abrupt climate change in 2002. I’ve written about the topic since initiating this blog in 2007. You act as if I discovered the idea via Light’s analysis, and also as if the concept depends upon his work. These are two more points about which you have erred.”

    It is true that you claimed in 2009, that you had concluded human extinction by 2030 in 2002; though I’ve yet to see any evidence of you discussing NTE in 2002 other than you just saying you concluded it back then. However, it didn’t become ‘Near Term Extinction’ (NTE), until Light published his infamous online research in Feb 2012, spurring you to write “We’re Done” that following June, and thereafter you took to citing his work for years.

    In direct context to Shakhova et al, paradigm destroying research, Light’s date of 2031.8 along with the IEA’s date of 6C by 2035, that information circulated like wildfire online, completely cementing the concept of NTE with the date 2030.

    NTE exploded onto the collapse preparedness community, because 2009/10 climate data was a total game changer, and it gave you the grandest doomer pulpit because you were the only person willing to cite those dates. It was the specificity of those dates which is the only reason anyone knows your name now. Prior to 2012 you were clearly not known for discussing NTE, but were the ex-professor who had “walked away” from academia to teach permaculture in preparation for the collapse of IC.

    The primary fault with Light’s work is the limited amount of data sets available from the Svalbard spike in atmospheric methane that reached 2040 ppb from which he draws his conclusion, which is why it could never be peer reviewed, and is why the very first sentence in his abstract begins with: “Although the sudden high rate Arctic methane increase at Svalbard in late 2010 data set applies to only a short time interval…..”.

    He knew it didn’t meet basic scientific requirements and so did you, as you do now, and is probably why you now state: “…for many years I’ve not relied on the citation(s) you claim as my sole source of evidence”.

    Have you ever provided a citation that specifically states 2030 being the year all human life will be extinct, other than Light’s work? I don’t believe you have.

    But as you say: “I’ve not used information from Malcolm Light in a presentation for years”. First of all, why? Second of all you just defended his work on an online interview in Aug 2014, and I’m pretty sure you mentioned his name even more recently; I’m just not interested enough in going through all the archives to find it, but none of this is all that relevant because you clearly still use the date 2030 for the end of all human life on earth, as you just stated on Bill Nye’s show: “I can’t imagine there will be a human being on the planet by 2030”.

    But here is where your revisionism is becoming tragic. You just wrote to me: “I know what I said to Nye. That’s not a prediction”.

    What you said to Bill Nye is the same thing you’ve been predicting for years, yet you’re NOW saying it’s not a prediction?

    If that’s not a prediction, then pray tell, what is?

    Just in case you’re thinking otherwise, most everyone here understands why you would wish to distance yourself from claiming we’ll all be dead in 14 years, I just wish you weren’t being so disingenuous about it.

    And you say I’m lying…..ah what tangled webs we weave…

    Please remember Guy, I believe the entire human race to be little more than inculcated liars. I don’t think anyone has the ability to know “the truth” period, not alone, predict the specific timing of large scale events, especially something as complex as the earth’s climate. Does that mean that abrupt climate change isn’t happening? Of course not, I still very much believe the evidence factoring into what has become known as NTE is very real and I’ve been painfully familiar with it for a very long time, it’s just that none of the evidence allows us to know exactly when life on earth will end.

    I believe we are all guilty in wanting a degree of certainty where there is none. Abrupt Climate Change is easily one of the greatest dilemmas the human race has ever had to reconcile. And not unlike the old childhood question “if you could know when you’re going to die, would you want to?”, our minds seek out some definitive answer to when it will all end. I believe we do this, because probably the only thing more difficult than having to accept the likely that we’ll all soon be extinct, is having to live with the ambiguity of not knowing when. That degree of ambiguity is monstrous and I believe it has forged numerous false predictions, like you once claiming: “For those of us living in the interior of a large continent, much less on a rock-pile in the desert, I’d give us until 2020 at the latest….”

    Again, I can’t blame you for the very thing I am guilty of myself; a great number of us have been dead wrong about a great number of things….it’s just time we all owed up.

  • And the infrastructure begins to/continues to collapse

    California Faces Blackouts After Historic Sempra Gas Leak

    State plan says using Aliso Canyon would limit service cuts
    Los Angeles customers encouraged to conserve power, gas

    Millions of Californians might face blackouts this summer unless energy providers take steps including removing natural gas from the Sempra Energy storage site, which was closed after a historic leak.

    Without tapping the site, power plants may not have enough access to natural gas on as many as 14 days to produce electricity in Southern California during certain peak-use times, according to a draft report issued Tuesday by agencies including the California Energy Commission, the California Public Utilities Commission, the California Independent System Operator and the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power. Fifteen billion cubic feet of gas is stored at Sempra’s Aliso Canyon field near Los Angeles.

    Other recommended measures to limit energy shortages include encouraging customers to conserve use during the hottest summer days. The agencies will take public comment before completing the actions, which were spurred by Governor Jerry Brown’s executive order in January, said Robert Weisenmiller, chairman of the energy commission, in a conference call with reporters Tuesday.
    Site’s Role

    “Aliso Canyon plays an essential role in maintaining both natural gas and electric reliability in the greater Los Angeles area,” said Mark Rothleder, vice president of the California Independent System Operator, during the call. “The facility’s limited current operations create a distinct possibility of electric service interruptions in the coming summer months.”

    The Aliso Canyon leak, which lasted almost four months, sickened residents and spewed the equivalent of a year’s worth of greenhouse-gas emissions from more than 500,000 cars. The leak was plugged in February.

    In response, state agencies called for a stop to more storage at the site until a safety review of its wells is completed, limiting the use of one of the largest reservoirs in the country.

    State officials said in a statement that its plan to address shortfalls, which include 18 measures, “will reduce, but not eliminate, the risk of gas shortages this summer that are large enough to cause electricity interruptions.”

  • 2 Mark Austin
    Your pieces are fascinating and informative. I teach genetics, but I learned about CRISPR from you. This is one of many things. Fred is an asshole. Ignore him. Don’t stop.

    Best Wishes

  • Yeah, I know. x3. But, some days, you just need more. More Carlin:

    A whole lot of what we struggle to spew out here, this guy got out. In a few words. Years ago. We’re all just working on the postscripts.

  • ‘A 1,200-kilometer-long, 400 kilometer-wide geothermal “hot spot” located under Greenland’s glacier could cause the three-kilometer-thick layer of ice covering the central-northern part of the massive island to melt, scientists say.’

  • Question for Mark Austin

    Just watched Mike Rogers, Commander of the U.S. Cyber Command, Director of the National Security Agency, in front of a Senate Committee say that Russia had the capability to take down all or parts of the US Power Grid. And that China was not far behind Russia in their capability.

    Chillingly he said cyber is the most lethal because it does not need billions and decades to develop, but can be done with minimal investment, time and “visible footprint.”

    Many questions run through my mind, I’ll just ask how elaborate are the “scenario” planning efforts by the US Gov’t. that are used to attempt to understand the implications of an attack?

    “Juggling chickens and chainsaws”

  • El Marko postito: “Congress passed the emergency measures for Marshall Law and OBAMA to stay in office (cancel elections) if Cyber & Biowar get really “hot” this fall. The laws passed & military ACTIONS in actual progress speak much louder than words. Look at all the largest coordinated multinational military drills ever conducted in history increasing since 2014. Specific movements and military deals with China. This level of war planning is not really about one gvt against the other. At some point things are going to get so “hot’ a global war will be more profitable than maintaining the consumer economy. The control of human resources is very important if you can see how the global parties do work together. It is amazing I have the freedom to post any of this here. Xi Jingping is enforcing stricter internet controls. He also knows there are other ways to deal with population rather than the 2 child policy. CRISPR & induced pandemics will be launched rather than watching it all crumble in a abrupt heatwaves. Extinction level events can happen long before 2030.”

    Yo! Dude! Now THAT’S the kind of DOOMY stuff that makes my testes twitch! I pray to the God Above that it’s coming soon! I mean, “humans” have caused sooooooo much unnecessary suffering for sooooooo long that they have proven themselves completely and utterly unworthy of existence in any form whatsoever, except for the few, Supreme Dwellers, who generated a ‘love fest’ within their being that formed a linkage to TPTA, (the powers that Are)!

    I hope that everyone who…voted for Bush, TWICE, not only has to see their life pass before their eyes when they die, but has to watch and feel the agony of every child that was murdered by America in Nam, Afghanistan and Iraq. Also, very American who ever called themselves a capitalist should have to watch the murder of every parent slaughtered point blank by a U.S. sponsored death squad. But they must see it through the eyes of the children who were watching, and feel what they felt!

    Who did you vote for, Mark? I want to wish you luck on your voyage. I hope you are captured by pirates and forced to live out your days as a slave in a silver mine. Fuck you and your sailboat!

  • It seems that I have almost completely let go of the world, at least when it comes to finding value in its social forms, concepts, alarums and excursions.

    My adjustment to the accelerating, descending spiral of the world has been a turn to the personal: to my inner journey, my love for my wife and our dog, the relationships I have with a few close colleagues at work, and my quirky, fascinating Facebook sangha. What such a personal world lacks in breadth, it makes up for by being as deep as I care or dare to go.

    What has finally tired me out is the relentless barking of the solutionistas chasing their technological tails, and the unceasing drone of Business As Usual in the media.

    I feel like the prison chaplain who was present for the execution of a mentally handicapped man. When the condemned man was given his last meal, he ate the steak and the vegetables. He then handed the piece of apple pie back to the guard, telling him he wanted to save it for later.

    I no longer want any part of what “the world” has become. Enough. I turn away.

    But one cannot turn away from something without simultaneously turning toward something else.

    What I am turning toward has lots of names. The Higher Self, love, the Divine, moksha, jnana, equanimity, compassion, the connection that is the quantum unit of the Sacred. Or something else, something felt rather than named. I try not to label it, I’m just trying to spend more time living here. With so little time left, it’s a wise idea to live where one feels at home. If one wants to die at home, after all, one should be there when the Shade comes to call.

  • mod. note:

    @Sam Miller

    Sorry Sam, your comment is still too personal. This blog is about views, ideas and information relevant to near term human extinction, not about anyone’s physical characteristics. Since you may be unfamiliar, here are the house rules:

    0. two comments max, per day, in the current thread. unlimited posts allowed in the basement (previous) threads. all posts, wherever they are, shall follow the remaining three rules.

    1. no libel. learn the law if you need to.

    2. no attacks on classes of people, e.g. racism, antisemitism, misogyny.

    3. keep focused on ideas as much as possible, not the people who hold the ideas.

    Interpretation and enforcement of the rules is at the discretion of the moderators.

  • @tom @mark austin

    I think that cyber security has been overlooked across a number of fronts – military, commerce (finance, airlines, retail) and utilities (nuclear plants, power grid, mass-transportation). And the implications are unknown and likely pretty severe.

    Check out this video of Admiral Mike Rogers – a little long, it gets good around the 40 minute mark.

  • Nature sure is a resilient bitch. The beauty of the spring bloom here in Virginia, shared with a loving canine, kitty and many majestic equines almost makes me forget the damage.

    I encourage you all to spend much time in Nature, and enjoying the great gifts of the plant and animal kingdoms. It has even calmed ME down!

    When I want current, accurate data and science, I come here. There is no other place like this. Thank all of you so much for bringing so much great information and deep experience.
    Artful words abound from the management and the readers.

    This is the realest place on the internet!


  • I figured out a way to maintain a sliver of hope. I propose we put some kind of visible message on the moon for future sentient beings. Maybe we can warn them off of civilization’s fatal course.

    STill working on it, just went up today. Please chime in! (obscenity filter is set to strong).

  • @ tom says: “I would encourage fred to listen to the NBL podcast you did with the Dr. McPherson in Dec 2015 – very interesting – and facts/original material laden.”

    Tom …

    It was actually because of this very podcast that that I easily determined that Mark Austin is *not* as he would appear to be, nor anywhere near what the folks who now make up the larger part of the commenters on this forum consider him to be.

    That having been said, i have a bit more to share:

    If you look back upon the comment stream after that 1st ‘Mark Austin’ podcast you will most certainly notice a few things…

    1.) I was the 1st person who made a comment with regard to that particular show.

    2.) Not one of the people that followed-up my comments re same is still involved with this forum ( e.i. … they are ‘gone’)

    3.) It would appear as if ‘tom”, who has only recently become an active member of this forum, is a rollover. (e.i. lacks discernment)

    4.) Whomever refereed to me as an ‘asshole” may very be right, but …

    5.) Has not our short (and now firmly within the end-zone) human history been full of assholes similar to myself.

    6.) Could it not be possible that the good Dr. himself – Dr. Guy McPherson, was also at some prior juncture consider and/or derides as same?

    7.) This having been said – I ponder the following …

    Does not the purported self-described life of Mark Austin as he describes it now not sound in the greater sense eerily familiar to that of the crazy-ass millionaire who for the last few years has been traipsing around the Caribbean – and namely Belize; you know – the same guy who invented Virus-Scan, wanted for murder and now running as a write-in candidate for president? (long sentence but you get the point – RC be damned)

    8.) Mark Austin never answered my question as to whether he had any children – though he did share the fact that he had webbed fingers yadayadyada.

    9.) What the F does it really matter at this point what DARPA is planning to do and/or doing now? REALLY!?!?! ….

    Whatever they do or not do (bring it on MF’ers!) has absolutely no bearing whatsoever going forward in terms of …

    A.) Water coming out of the faucet

    B.) Still being able to afford to eat

    C.) Deciding whether to keep the house or the car

    d.) Explaining to little Suzy 18 months from now why the family had to eat her pet goat.



  • @fred

    “Explaining to little Suzy 18 months from now why the family had to eat her pet goat”

    now that is funny – you are a funny guy, you amuse me

  • Confusion is rampant in this space. Many readers cannot understand English. One result is utter foolishness.

    I made no prediction in the National Geographic episode with Bill Nye. I have frequently made the prediction that the species Homo sapiens will be extinct by 2030. These are two separate issues. I stand by each of them.

    I have collated abundant evidence in support of my prediction regarding near-term human extinction. Essentially none of the evidence is based on the work of Malcolm Light, as indicated by a quick and easy search of my recent writing and public speaking. Due diligence is asking far too much of some who comment here. The latter are usually Caucasian men.

    The inability of some readers here to comprehend simple, straightforward English has resulted in insults. Semantics matter. Please read and attempt to comprehend before launching an attack.

  • Kirk Hamilton, every time I encounter a hurt bird I immediately think of you, in a caring rather than sad way. Things people say here stick with me for a long time. Around 1998 just before going off the grid to Costa Rica I was involved with Al Gore campaign, but ironically I was out of the country for voting in that election. MO just sent me an old news paper article about my Father’s failed U.S. Senate election. His loss of that election is almost embarrassing. He turned angry against the Democrats and got closely involved with John McCain. Sorry but I do have to admit I voted for McCain rather than Obama because John has been like an uncle to me. Yet on the dark side of that is a few men like dad & John being in charge of Trillions in defense spending.

    I only point out these connections because I do want to tell people some stuff I know about trillions of dollars in military industrial contracts from a family POV. Back during the Roman Empire I-Claudius was the dumb son of powerful emperors. Claudius played demur but he knew a lot which later altered things for the better a little while longer in Rome. Last year I was pushed to consider running for Az state Congress – and that got me thinking of other grass roots ways to connect with NBL thinkers which is more true to how I’d like to shutdown this Empire – but not to have all the reactors meltdown and kill nature.

    TOM, asked me a couple really good questions – going back to the generators and backup systems. you can see some of my exact work with Debra & S. Anoki on upgrading the fuel storage capacity. ARTLEADS was exceptional in his volunteer help to all of us with Consequence Management ideas last year. We constructed Fraday cages around all external generators to protect against EMP blasts. A very large study was done (ordered by Newt Gringrich) on effects of EMP blasts.

    TOM the NSA Cybersecurity has already deflected dozens of direct hacks into nuclear computer systems. Tomorrow while I’m flying to Vegas I will provide you a few links to stories for evidence. Except in the TVA incident that I think is still completely ignored to avoid any panic or public concern in TN. TOM, I actually learned about Biochar here on NBL last year. We ordered tons of it from a German company and had it “Landscaped” around several plants. I wrote about that specific order here on NBL the week we did it. Just like the Manatee center we built at the Ft. Pierce nuclear outflow. Of course all of this is low key silly biz in the face of the 5 plans to try to respond to a series of chain-reaction meltdowns. If a quake hit the New Madrid fault it would in some ways be worse than the San Andres scenario. Honestly if there was ever more than one plant going critical per week we have no really valid plan for that scale of containment. Pandemic, asteroids, conventional nuclear war, all of them are factored in FEMA response books…and every plan we have falls apart during multi-impact events.

    FRED, I seriously understand that you deserve a good response from the part of “me” that was supported by your tax dollars to address what to do. Nothing about me matters. Your key question is how to help you plan. Please write me and I will focus on specifically to your needs and location. Carolyn recently spent a weekend at my homes in Fla, then she drove direct to visit Guy at the Mud Hut. I hugged LIDIA in person in Vermont then drove on to shake hands with Bernie Sanders. At Least Bernie is very open about man-made climate change and decommission VT Yankee nuclear plant. I provide my schedule of locations so more of us can meet in person. I have no idea if the emergency laws Congress passed to keep OBAMA in office & suspend elections due to plans for limited nuclear war are serious, but if you are in North America the plans for many types of warfare are higher than ever.

    FRED, Please look into BioWar and let me know what you decide rather than my warnings. I can only personally say that some of my specific HIV DNA blood samples were willing provided to The Biodefense lab in Ft. Detrick. The Ebola samples from Emmory and many other virus have been spliced and genetically enhanced to create the most swift and deadly release ever devised. Our CIA director is now concerned about the fact we had to provide Xi Jingping with the CRISPR bacteria formula. In the full 33 page plan North American populations are target for reduction. It’s a trade off to China rather than destroy our productive food regions in nuclear exchanges. And yes the elite – certainly not myself – figure they will be immune to the sudden induced pandemic. It is only an option and it has only recently been placed on the global restructuring table. Meet me in person and it will save a thousand words. For this week I must continue with NASA Blue Beam and thousands of Americans who are excited about having their brains microwaved. Unfortunately raising the WiFi frequency level creates more heat.

    Cell microwaves heat the environment! Bluetooth microwaves also cook all other species on a cellular level. Yet nobody will even write or protest as we conduct this crazy shit in Vegas and Disney. Best I can do is make the “v2k” direct mind message experience a nice one and maybe get some people here to look more into what ultrasonic waves are going to do to your brains. Now that Area 51 at Nellis AFB is no longer secret I’m certainly curious to tour it before I run for deep cover.

    LIDIA is right, there is no other web site like Guy’s class to share NTE in progress. “Spotlight” of LOVE to BABAJINGO. Gotta get packin. Lida Nevada ghost mine land is up for grabs if someone wants to gamble on a mud hut adjacent to Nellis AFB fence zone of Area 51.

  • Guy, I thought the topic of the radio show today was excellent (co-opting and falsification of ‘green’ non-profits). A couple of days ago someone asked in another venue about the Donella Meadows Institute and another non-profit with which they’re merging. We were asked to “wake up” the people at these institutions w/r/t population, which they generally do not seem to have (ever?) addressed.

    My response below was (if not subject to an unusual glitch) censored by the group owner.

    For those who may not know or remember.. Donella Meadows was one of the authors of “The Limits to Growth” study, which predicted economic and ecological collapse for just around now. So the “Donella Meadows Institute”, one would think, should be operating on a higher and more accurate plane of information than most.

    Cory’s comment about these ‘leaders’ coming from a ‘stable’ was fascinating and chilling to me and, I believe, correct. I had assumed the woman described below to be intelligent, and imagined she would respond coherently to questions. But she really *did* present herself somewhat like a dressage horse (competent in a limited, artificial, and ultimately meaningless way.. high-strung.. fragile..). Thanks, Cory!

    [Questioner], I’ve already spoken to Marta Ceroni, the executive director of the DMI, on a couple of occasions. A couple of years ago she gave a presentation in my town on the replacement for GDP that they were pushing along with the Gund Institute (Eric Zency was also speaking). It said nothing about population trends. All she said to me at the end when I asked her was, “oh yes, population is very important..” But not important enough to figure into their GPI calculations. (They didn’t really address the future; it was a consumer version of this material, appearing studious, but rather limited in scope:

    It’s clear that they want/ed (and apparently believe/d) the Genuine Progress Indicator to be a metric that can be made to increase on a per-capita basis (and thus be used politically), otherwise why propose it?

    This February Marta gave a talk at the Vermont Law School, in which she discussed points where we can “intervene” in “The System” (supposedly following Meadows’ systems thinking). Population again not mentioned. She did use Ben and Jerry’s and Seventh Generation as promising examples (never mind that nobody actually needs a single thing that either company makes).

    I asked her about the framing for what she envisioned as The System: how she defined its boundaries, for one thing, and whether there weren’t elements both We AND “The System” were subject to, where we could not “intervene”. I don’t remember what she said because she didn’t really address my point and went on to say something else, leaving me kind of confounded.

    I don’t know how she can get up and go to work each day, since she has to know on some level that everything she is presenting is fraudulent. There has got to be some severe cognitive dissonance.

    From my notes on her presentation at the “New Economy Law Center”, VT Law School, 2/24/16:
    (Left more out that was even less clear because I didn’t write things out completely.)

    -what she called “The Great Acceleration” began in the 1950s (me:??)
    -mentioned an “OXFAM donut”, and the need for “inclusive and sustainable economic development”
    -“why are we in this?”
    -YES, “decoupling emissions and growth IS POSSIBLE”: European Commission reports GDP up and emissions down. (me: ???!?)

    (she showed this as a single image of a triangle with the leverage-point labels arrayed along the slope).
    -talked about the “goals” of a system (me: incredibly poor word choice; a system does not have “goals”)
    -said it is not a zero-sum game (me: no, it is a negative-sum game)
    -Genuine Progress Indicator
    -GDP = inflationary (me:??)
    -allowing systems to self-organize makes them more powerful (me: powerful in what sense and to what end? The system is already self-organizing but we don’t want to recognize it as such.)
    -apply “new rules and information flows *that you create*” (me:!!)
    -polluters will be asking for a carbon price: Ben & Jerry’s/7thG

    -Vermont’s Common Assets Fund (I haven’t looked into this so far): based on Roman juridical system
    -(as an important one of the leverage/intervention points) Mindsets and Paradigms: “awareness of what you think and mean” (me; heh)

    Audience questions:
    “How do you create the money for financing?”
    Answer had something to do with “net positive returns” (me: oy veh)

    Something about mortality
    yes, there is a “denial of mortality”

    Didn’t get question..
    Answer: Each community has its own problems, but “the power is in our hands”.
    Enact “place-based solutions”.

    Something about China, seventeen “goals”, a GPI (progress indicator) .. based on Canadian model?
    Answer: No, not based on Canadian model. Some stuff about an “index of well-being” that is “non-monetary”

    My question about framing; didn’t get a satisfactory answer, have no notes on that.

    A woman brought up the “one earth calculator”; criticized co-housing like Cobb Hill (that DM founded) because it’s expensive “yuppie greenwashing”.

    Last comment had something to do with networking.

    2/3 of the February presentation slides are in this earlier document I found:

    I don’t know anything about the Academy for Change — never heard of it.

    It’s a lost cause, because these orgs are set up to sell hopium, not reality.
    Of course, she went to Paris, and we heard about the wonderful and stimulating dinner conversations there:

    What better thing than to get paid to drink wine and do “visioning exercises” and “multi-solving” with artists in Paris? Can’t really blame her.

    I’m staying home these days and drinking wine out of a box.

    No more Brunello for me.

    My Genuine Progress Indicator has gone down. :-(


  • @Mark Austin …

    You flatter yourself in presuming to address me so directly about SO much having nothing whatsoever about which I was speaking. Perhaps other members of this forum can now understand that you are simply an AI program, but one on the fritz.

    For example:

    “The Ebola samples from Emmory and many other virus have been spliced and genetically enhanced to create the most swift and deadly release ever devised.”

    HHhhhmmmm??? Sounds really scary ‘cept for one(1) eentsy-teensy problem. …

    YOU DON’T KNOW HOW TO SPELL EMORY. It’s 90 some odd miles due north of me.

    “We constructed Fraday cages around all external generators to protect against EMP blasts.”

    Try Faraday cages Mark.

    “Our CIA director is now concerned about the fact we had to provide Xi Jingping with the CRISPR bacteria formula.”

    Try Xi Jinping Mark.

    “FRED, I seriously understand that you deserve a good response from the part of “me” that was supported by your tax dollars to address what to do.”

    … Again Mark … don’t flatter yourself. I have not paid a dime in federal taxes since the early 1990’s.

    Meanwhile Mark … you still remain unwilling to simply share the fact of whether or not you have children. (though I have now directly asked you twice)

    “Gotta get packin.”

    До свидания Марк. Есть безопасное и замечательное путешествие! Не забудьте написать!

  • fred- First of all, by your logic we shouldn’t be listening to anything you say because you don’t even know that you are supposed to CAPITALIZE the first letter of your name (and YES, I don’t capitalize my moniker here either, but I’m not the one on a spell-check rampage).

    “Meanwhile Mark … you still remain unwilling to simply share the fact of whether or not you have children. (though I have now directly asked you twice)”

    Why in the FUCK do you think this is any of your business? What does it have to do with anything? Are you trying to assess Mark’s carbon footprint? Why just ask him about that? Why not ask everyone here how often they drive a car, or if they ever turn on the lights in their house, or if they’re vegan, or… whatever.

    Do you actually have anything to contribute other than just ragging on someone’s spelling mistakes??

    Mark, have at least some fun in Vegas. Put a $5 bet on the Horn High Yo at the craps table as a tip for the dealers (normally if you’re making a bet for the dealer, they won’t force you to play the minimum). Say you want it “players way” and when it hits, parlay that shit and watch the dealers take home $1280 for 30 seconds of dice play.

    Good times.


  • I’d better use my second post to correct my math, lest I be discredited in fred’s eyes (and I would never be able to live with myself if that were the case)…

    If the 11 hits at that craps table with that bet, the payout is not $1280 unless you put the entire $5 on Yo AND you parlay it. The Horn bet splits it among several options, and the dealers would only end up with about $500. Improves your odds, of course, but with a smaller payout.

    Yes, fred, apparently I’m a fucking capitalist who enjoys gambling (and many, many other vices). Sue me (although that would be the ultimate capitalist thing to do).

  • This thread has become way too personal and mean

    Thanks Fred

    Lead lives of Excellence
    Only Love Remains

  • mod — just tried to post a comment – post just disappears after I hit submit.

  • **I made no prediction in the National Geographic episode with Bill Nye.**

    I looked at the video in question – at the time mark Daniel gave. It is exactly as he said it was — Bill Ney asks “So how long do we have, when’s the day?”

    And the response.

    “I can’t imagine there will be a human being on the planet in 2030. I think habitat for humans will be gone before then.”


    Since this sounds like a *prediction* to me – and considering experience and expertise – a *prediction* many of your *followers* certainly took to heart.

    Perhaps I am a confused fool who cannot understand English, but insisting the above exchange is not a *prediction* is rather bizzare – especially considering the *drift* of NBL.

    It reminds me of the famous line – “I did not have sex with that woman” – and the even more famous attempt to obscure the truth – “It depends upon what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is.

    Because the only way your statement is not a prediction — is in the land of word manipulation – where things aren’t really what they seem, but actually something else.

    But I suppose since we don’t know where we’re going, any road will take us there.

  • @Bob S.

    Bob, your comment was in the review que, waiting to be approved. Sorry about the wait…I think it’s up now.

  • Mark is unique, to be sure.
    I don’t have a clue who “fred” is… fred, how about introducing yourself?

    My comment did go through after a long delay (at the other place, not here). I was unsure because people were getting kicked off, and I thought I might be among them.

    babajingo, amazing all the crazy lingo and rules you have command of…! Maybe you should go out there.

    Isn’t anybody interested in getting blue-beamed?
    For science?

  • .

    Didn’t they burn witches at the stake 400 years ago for making predictions? My how things have come full circle. Science, witchcraft, what’s the difference really, hey?

    A prediction is a prediction, especially if you have a pretty good reason to suspect people are going to take it as such. To have some whacked out doublespeak meaning concocted in your own mind about what you actually might have not meant there, instead of what other people are going to think you maybe did or maybe didn’t almost quite mean there, based on their silly inability to interpret your words, which will be based on the standard communication models used by the rest of the species, that ‘other’ usage and understanding used by the mere commoners … ok, I’m lost now, but I think you get the point. Or maybe you don’t. Anyway, it’s pretty bad.

    Oy vey, is that how they say that?


    NBL just hit the bush. Or maybe just finally hit a little bit on the truth? Usually the same result in shock value for people though, lol.

    Gee, I hope I didn’t spell a word wrong, or fred will use that to discount the whole overriding subject matter of my post. You’re a nut case fred. And, along with people like Lidia, the reason why I don’t post here anymore, except for today of course. We finally found out Lidia actually just grew up with a mean sister, who happened to be a born again christian, and that THIS is the reason why she attacks any form of esoteric minded person of any stripe or persuasion here. So tell us fred, what fucked your head up so much? A spelling bee ? Rhetorical question there … who cares what fucked your head up so much.

    Oy vey.

    Thanks for posting that bit about quantum physics in the back forty Mark. I love you for that. It was the whole reason I was ever even here at NBL, to find a way to wake people up to the damage they are doing by following magical thinking predictions, especially seriously depraved ones. I hope Batman saw that post and made the connection. That’s what’s sinking us here on earth, a consensus reality, constructed out of our thoughts, our beliefs, our convictions, not fred having to pay taxes. What a hazard this place has become as it moved from conscientious environmentalism and fight against empire, to a death cult praying for a chicken shit collective suicide.

    And again fred, get a life. Or is that it, that you’re just bitter you never had one? No, I still think it was just probably a spelling bee you failed once. See how this quantum stuff whacks out your head fred?

    In terms of the consensus reality that the quantum workings of our universe manifests, this site is a hazard and nothing good whatsoever. As a exhortation to live as one and connected back to nature, it was exemplary. As a tool for a collective suicide prayer, however, it is a horror show. A tragic horror show. Time to wake up people. You’ve all been horribly fooled as to how your reality actually works here in three dimensional reality. WAKE UP!

    Oy vey.

    Cheers Bob S. You finally said something good for once. Will it crack the admiration you have for the esteemed authority figure you have so blindly followed? Or will you just double down now in order to not look the fool? I’ll bet you just double down now, like Lidia, who seems to have even hit the bottle hard now. Maybe that was always her problem. Again, who cares. That’s her reality for her to deal with or not.

    Oy vey.

    Kind of funny all this, actually, for those with ears to hear and eyes to see with.

    Or no, maybe it’s just ‘oy vey.’

    Is there hope that even one of you here might wake up to what’s really going on around you? No, not likely.

    I won’t say it. (Oy vey, oops, couldn’t help it, I’m addicted. OY VEY PEOPLE.)

    Hugs? No? Didn’t think so.

  • ‘Fiji braces for category three Cyclone Zena,
    two months after deadly Winston’

    Not looking good.

  • ‘Meet the survivalists hoarding bee pollen and preparing for apocalypse’

    I just had to put this up, it gave me a laugh.

    What a silly term ‘survivalist’
    aren’t we already such beings?

  • I too have visited the brink of death. I hope you don’t mind the re-post Mark. You are a torchbearer for sure. Thanks.

    Mark Austin Says:
    April 5th, 2016 at 9:00 pm

    Besides deep heartbreak of potentially having Earth become extremely radioactive, I’ve been on the brink of death in normal medical terms. MO posted this on KuKu. Love to LWA and all those who talk in our more private camp fire circles:

    “Since I had been in the Light for some time now, I knew this tunnel did not herald death. Clearly though, I reasoned, there had to have been some relationship between my thought “tunnel” and its magical appearance.

    To find out, I intentionally thought to myself, “I’ve also heard it [the afterlife] described as a beautiful meadow or valley.” Immediately a verdant meadow full of wildflowers nestled between purple-hazed mountains stretched out before me. It was just as real as the tunnel, and everything I had experienced while in the body, with one exception— when I was on Earth, my surroundings were there before I consciously thought about them. In this place, I knew I instantly created the meadow just by thinking the word. I knew it was not “real,” despite its sense of “reality” as I had experienced reality while in the flesh.

    This experiment confirmed my suspicion that in the Light all I had to do was think about an environment to create it in “reality.” The term “manifesting” popped into my mind as the name for this phenomenon. I could manifest reality. I knew the tunnel and meadow appeared only because I thought about them. I personally manifested a tunnel and meadow into reality just by thinking the words. The manifestations were so real I did not trust my senses. So I conducted one more experiment to verify I actually produced those thought-forms myself.

    My test thought was, “I have only passed out and dreamed the rest and am now awake and on my way over to surgery.” Immediately I was walking along a hospital corridor. Yellowish tiled institutional walls ran parallel beside me. My feet felt solidly planted on uncarpeted floor. I heard hospital din above the swish of my body moving beneath the hospital “johnnie” as I sensed the closeness of the nurse escorting me to the Cancer Hospital. It was soooo very real. Yet I knew for certain I was in the Light, not the Hospital.

    I remembered suddenly that in our natural spirit state we manifest anything and everything we want with instantaneous results. We literally manifest reality as we go. Though dumbstruck by how real and solid as matter those manifestations were, I realized they were different than solid matter on Earth, because I knew I had projected them as reality via my own thoughts. They did not fool me as they do while I am in the body. What? I thought with surprise. Fool me?

    In response to this self-examination I remembered that I likewise manifested reality while imbedded in human form. I manifested my Earthly surroundings, just as I did in the Light, but I did so unconsciously. The essential ingredient is belief. I believed the Earth exists apart from my manifesting it because those around me believed it. I grew up believing in Earth life as it unfolded from the birth of Nanci’s body. I understood then that we all manifest what we believe, and if those beliefs are passed on from human generation to generation, then the same manifestations persist.

    The simple truth of our ability to manifest reality is Earth-shattering. It means I can change my surroundings, my life, through application of this spiritual power. And if I can do it, so can you. If we collectively and concertedly consciously use our ability to manifest we can literally change the world we live in. It is, after all, just a collective manifestation in the first place.

    Danison, Nanci L

  • @Sir Mark Austin

    Yes, Death teaches how to live. And he teaches oneness in solitude. And he teaches simplicity. And he teaches to let go all the time, hahaha.

    I let go science, I let go religion, I let go. Standing there, possessing nothing, being nobody, happy and free.


  • brad, there are already a couple of flags up there obscuring the view. should strike terror into the hearts of all aliens. nit pickers unite. babajingo, you’ve got some spunk! if you and lwa haven’t tied the knot yet, maybe we could give it a shot!

  • …i’ve been trying to mend my obnoxious ways, and i aint bad looking for a gnome! wink wink

  • digi ~ (nudge nudge) I like cute gnomes. you keep being good now, ok? :)

  • CO2 for March 404.8, up over 3 from 2015

    faster, faster

  • predict.

    1.say or estimate that (a specified thing) will happen in the future or will be a consequence of something



    1.form a mental image or concept of:

    2.suppose or assume



    1.have a particular belief or idea one’s mind towards someone or something; use one’s mind actively to form connected ideas

    3. have a specified opinion of



    1.indicate the truth or existence of (something) by suggestion rather than explicit reference:

    •(of a fact or occurrence) suggest (something) as a logical consequence



    1.perceive the intended meaning of (words, a language, or a speaker)

    2.interpret or view (something) in a particular way sympathetically or knowledgeably aware of the character or nature of

    Oxford Dictionaries · © Oxford University Press

  • Some seem to be in a hurry to die, hahaha. But there is no need to hurry, Death won’t leave any body behind absolutely for sure :-)

    Have you ever tried to hold your breath just for some funny minutes? Then you will know, if you still cling to life or not 8-)

  • Doomy Haiku by a Master

    In silent midnight
    our old scarecrow topples down…
    Weird hollow echo.


  • Our leaders thought fracking would save our climate – ‘Methane emissions are substantially higher than we’ve understood’

    Global warming is, in the end, not about the noisy political battles here on the planet’s surface. It actually happens in constant, silent interactions in the atmosphere, where the molecular structure of certain gases traps heat that would otherwise radiate back out to space. If you get the chemistry wrong, it doesn’t matter how many landmark climate agreements you sign or how many speeches you give. And it appears the United States may have gotten the chemistry wrong. Really wrong. [lots more]

  • @ Guy,

    You were asked point blank by Bill Nye on national television, “so how long do we have?”, and you answered; “I can’t imagine there will be a human being on the planet by 2030”.

    With thousands of people having watched and listened to you for years, where you have repeated that very prediction, you’re honestly stating for everyone here to read, that what you said to Bill Nye, semantically wasn’t a prediction?

    And then you assault people’s intelligence for not being able to comprehend the English language, and then accuse people of making persona attacks?


    The definition of a charlatan: ‘a person who pretends or claims to have more knowledge or skill than he or she possesses’.

    Not only does that definition very much apply to you in thinking you’ve the knowledge to predict human life will cease to exist in 14 years, but now, you are saying you didn’t just “predict” that on national television?

    So your whole argument is based on the semantic distinction between saying “ I can’t imagine there will be a human being on the planet by 2030”, compared to saying “ I predict there won’t be a human being on the planet by 2030”.

    And because you didn’t use the root word ‘predict’, it is therefore not a prediction, even though you’ve spent years repeatedly making that very prediction, which is why you were even on the Bill Nye show to begin with?

    Am I reading you correctly?

    Because if you desire to continue to back yourself into an indefensible corner by now needing to hide behind the semantic definition of words, I will very much oblige you, and we can deeply explore this mythical world you seem to be creating where only you get to change the meaning of words to suit your intent, and magically pretend you said something else when you’re intent changes.

    Remember when I wrote that those in presumed authority don’t like to be questioned and they have a very difficult time admitting they were wrong out of fear of losing that authority…..well, this latest absurdity of yours is exactly what I was describing.

    @ anyone else

    Can anyone here other than Guy, make sense of what he has just said?

    If so, please elaborate on how “I can’t imaging there will be a human being on the planet by 2030” isn’t a prediction, even though Guy just wrote to Ed on the last thread: “predictions are fundamental to science” .