Edge of Extinction: I am NOT a Climate Scientist

Thanks to Ivey Cone at Fuki Cafe for shooting and editing the video embedded below. The set is no accident.

 

I was interviewed by Press TV shortly after posting the guest essay on Friday, 27 May 2016. The interview is linked here.

I was interviewed by Derrick Jensen for Resistance Radio a couple of months ago. It aired Sunday evening, 29 May 2016. You can listen here or by starting the YouTube version embedded below.

 

I’ll be interviewed on The People Speak Tuesday, 31 May at 9:00 p.m. Eastern. Details are available here.

Thanks to Crawford’s Attractions for initiating a fund-raising campaign in support of speaking tours. It’s here. We’re also seeking volunteers to support my speaking tours this year. Details are provided beneath the “Coming Events” tab atop the page. If you are able to help, please send a message to booking@crawfordsattractions.com
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Catch Nature Bats Last on the radio with Mike Sliwa and Guy McPherson. To listen live, tune in every Tuesday at 3:00 p.m. Eastern time, or catch up in the archives here. If you prefer the iTunes version, including the option to subscribe, you can click here. We’re on Stitcher, too.

As always, the schedule of topics for forthcoming episodes of the radio show is posted beneath the tab at the top of the page titled, “Radio Archive and Recent Video.” Please help us out, especially with episodes that focus on criticism of climate scientists and activists by sending your contributions to Mike at mikeyjonsliwa@gmail.com. The next of these shows is scheduled for 7 June 2016. We will be joined by independent journalist Cory Morningstar.

From Kevin Hester comes this message: Professor Guy McPherson will be touring New Zealand in November 2016 talking about Runaway Abrupt Climate Change. Regular updates are provided at KevinHester.Live and Facebook events will be created as the date draws near.

McPherson’s latest book is available in audio, and can be purchased here. Ms. Ladybug and Mr. Honeybee: A Love Story at the End of Time is intended for ages 11 and up.

Comments 147

  • An appropriately apocalyptic backdrop in the video.
    That can’t have been an accident, can it?

  • Guy, for the love of Gawd, sweet baby Jesus, Bhudda, Krishna, Allah, & the spaghetti monster – you are a trained scientist using the very best science to study & understand climate change & climate disruption.

    Plenty adequate & good enough.

    Ditto for James Hansen.

    Why create issues where no such issues exist?

    “Good science is trying your damdest to tell the truth no holds barred.” Percy Bridgman.

    At this clearly defined time of runaway climate disruption, we are all facing gruesome suffering & painful death.

    Many are already in the death throes of agony, as in India & Bangladesh.

    There are more than enough lying double-talking guffawing bastards throwing pepper in our eyes.

    If you aren’t a climate scientist, who is?

    Yes, Sen, James Inhofe is NOT a climate scientist.

  • Interesting short video about ‘climate scientist’. I got dinged recently on an article about your work because “he’s a biologist, not a climate scientist” (this by the editor of a small-town newspaper). The marquee name scientists have largely specialized in physics or geology or other earth scientists. Underlying their assessments is the public idea (even among those who accept AGW) that we’ll be able to survive temps above 5 C by putting everyone in domes with lots of chillers.


  • @Gerald Spezio

    ” Guy, for the love of Gawd, sweet baby Jesus, Bhudda, Krishna, Allah, & the spaghetti monster…”

    Uhm, you believe in GHawd, sweet baby JeHsus, BHuddhaw, KHrisnaw, AHllaw AND the spaghetti moHnster ?!^^ That’s kinda funny 🙂 Man, don’t you trust yourself, your free will and your intelligence? 🙂

  • Guy and Derrick together — pure delight!

    All of us who are still “trying to figure things out” love the foundational thinking that you two indulge in.

    Despite our poetic friend on the last page who has inspired me to go visit those plants and animals nearby him, as well as the ones in my own backyard, it is not an intellectual isolation from the world of Nature.

    It is part of OUR better nature to be curious. And I can testify, after visiting my father well into his 90s, that curiosity which he shared with me while I was growing up is never-ending. Like a snowball rolling downhill. The more you learn, the more you want to learn.

    I cannot think of any more appropriate career for a young person (or of any age) to step into than Conservation Biologist. Especially at this time.

  • “We are really a vicious cranky malevolent group of naked apes and if we really get pissed off we are masters of extinction”

    -David Gerrold


  • @Mike D.

    “We are really a vicious cranky malevolent group of naked apes and if we really get pissed off we are masters of extinction”

    Is that really what “you/they” are? I mean, it says “we”… How can someone be so funny, to call himself “a vicious cranky malevolent group of naked apes” ?! Or does he, that David Gerrold guy, speak for all 7.3 billion people? That would be quite arrogant, wouldn’t it`?… But wait, erm, I see, it’s the Empire Star Trek guy:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gerrold

    That’s the guy, who imagined the Universe settled with millions of “vicious cranky malevolent naked Empire apes”, right?


  • LWA, your eagle’s eye picked that nugget of fool’s gold out of Jens’ comment:

    ” The white european just had upper hand and played it well.

    BOOOOM. What’s left to say ?!:

    NATURE BATS LAST.

    … and only Love remains.


  • erm, sorry mod, wrong thread 🙂

  • .

    @Nemesis … I’ve had this conversation with Americans countless times. I’ve had Americans explain to me, in all honesty, that yes … I can knowingly rip you off, and that’s just doing good, smart business. It’s up to you to not get ripped off, and it’s a sign of how smart you are … who gets ripped of as opposed to who does the ripping off first. They don’t see how that is just a deeply held cultural belief, one picked up from their own culture, and not necessarily the way other people around the world would willingly operate or choose to have to conduct business. It’s a country in deep denial about who they are and how they behave. They tell themselves they were just the smartest at a game everybody else was playing too. They are masters at projecting their own attitudes onto everybody else, and assuming everyone thinks and operates just as they do. The truth is coming home to roost I think … and there is a lot of discomfort over it, and it seems the occasional defiant outburst.

    Yes Nem … the love. 🙂

  • mike D,

    no sure to what u are referencing in “1844.”

  • @Shep

    Here ya’ go… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Disappointment

    @Nemesis

    Yes, that’s the guy. And yea, I think he hit the nail on the head overall. We hoped for a Star Trek Universe back in the 60’s, but we we’re trying to be optimistic back then (yes, I know you put “Empire” in there just to make sure you were playing your troll role well…).

    I must admit that you are a bit “volcanic” as self-described, but the image that comes to mind would be err, a “Mudpot”…Bloop,Bloop,Bloop. the Novelty wears off quickly.

  • My…,everyone here is quite sarcastic towards one another,myself included. Is dripping sarcasm not the most egregious form of personal attack?! Lets see who comes to mind….. our resident censor,Richard. @nemesis and why do so many equate the destruction of civilization with mass murder?? That is just a cheap shot by one who would rather make no personal sacrifices in order to stop the much larger mass death,etcetera directly caused by civilization. I think all forms of resistance to empire are helpful. We are just going to need more militants to be successful.

  • .
    @Mike

    Is Nemesis a troll? Doesn’t he just engage points of view and opinions with his own alternative points of view? That’s just debate, isn’t it? Is a troll now someone who simply disagrees with you?

    I think this is trolling … when randomly inserted into someone’s completely unrelated topic … “(unless of course if you believe the tree does not fall if all homos are gone – then it never happens).”

    Since that was a clear shot at past conversations here, yet not related to the current comment at all, I would call that being a troll.

    Or this … “Guy, for the love of Gawd, sweet baby Jesus, Bhudda, Krishna, Allah, & the spaghetti monster …”

    That too was unnecessary in the current comment, but was clearly shot at some of the conversations here from the past (in a straw man sort of way). I would certainly call that being a troll.

    Those are both statements, both made completely outside of the context of the comment, intended to ‘troll’ for a reaction, the same way one ‘trolls’ passively in an attempt to get fish to ‘bite’ the ‘hook’ you threw out. It’s also passive aggression too, which is very unbecoming behavior.

    I don’t think Nemesis is trolling merely for reaction at all. I see him as just having opinions and insights quite different from those of the status quo here at NBL. There’s also a big difference between a poignant cutting remark, and a mere sulky personal retort. Neither of which, though, would be trolling. Trolling is trying to provoke a reaction from someone with a passive aggressive comment, like in the examples I provided above. Although, I suppose people are free to imagine trolling to be whatever happens to suit their fancy. A troll is usually quite a different thing from someone who’s opinions you just don’t happen to care for.

    Some people here at NBL are quite good at trolling, but I wouldn’t consider Nemesis to be one of them.

  • Some surprisingly honest reporting:

    ‘The last time CO² levels were at 400ppm, about 3 million years ago, earth temperatures were 2-3 degrees Celsius higher and sea levels were about 20 metres higher, Renwick told an AntarcticaNZ conference on the weekend.

    “Unless we do something drastic soon, we’re in for a big redrawing of coastal boundaries,” Renwick said.’

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/80291984/climate-change-nz-to-pass-important-milestone-within-weeks

  • My comments must be triggering alarms blocks to here, so I’m posting a link to reddit that spells out what I want, but am unable, to say here.

    My handle there is BeezleyBillyBub.

    Edge of Extinction: I am NOT a Climate Scientist from collapse

  • SHUT IT DOWN is going great. Today I stayed home and read a book. I spent no money and I watered my garden with rain water. SHUT IT DOWN!

  • Yes. nemesis is not a troll.. We get personal more with each other than nearly anyone else. I hate attacking him because he is difficult to counter attack. Of course I have the more difficult position to defend (the take down of civilization with the least amount of suffering)I think lwa should be moderator. He seems to see the subtleties in human behaviuor better than most.Resident psychologist possibly. I would suspect a troll is one who is insincere in their positions on a subject and just want to cause a problem among those who are serious and passionate about their convictions. Thanx dave thompson for your sincere convictions even though I may critique the efficacy of your position.

  • Thought this was interesting…

    “What worries ecologists is that people now upset about the environment may ultimately look to technology to solve everything- to fall back on the comforting belief that ever-thicker copies of city and regional planning reports or air-conditioned, geodesic domes encapsulating the cities will be the answer. ‘A belief in the ability of technology to solve almost any problem,’ says zoologist Dr. Kenneth E.F. Watt of the Institute of Ecology of the University of California at Davis, ‘leads people to expect a solution where none is possible.’”

    Newsweek, January 26, 1970

  • I would totally own “Forest Ranger” if I had Guy’s degrees and took a career path similar to his.

  • Guy, finally! You study life! I am not a proponent of 2030 NTE (a century IMO) but, I have been using an “experts on life” argument in defending you and other biologly people around the tubes for a couple years. My argument has been that the physicists (media darlings) do fine work informing us of the changes in the climate system, but the biologly people are/should be the go to guys for how those changes are going to impact the living world. Golly, never have I felt so validated – big dopamine squirt. Thanks.

    “robertscribbler / May 31, 2016
    I don’t believe we are inevitably doomed. And I think a big push by all of humankind might get us out of the worst of this mess. I do believe, though, that we lock in more bad outcomes with each day that we burn oil, gas, and coal, with every instance in which we emit more carbon into the already carbon-laden airs. And I believe that if we don’t stop burning fossil fuels soon, then human civilization is probably doomed to suffer a devastating collapse and that if we don’t halt that harmful burning, then human extinction is a very real risk.

    https://robertscribbler.com/2016/05/31/new-extreme-climate-to-hurl-more-rain-bombs-at-texas-light-off-another-record-west-coast-heatwave/#comment-81329

    Ha!, scribby gave me the boot awhile back for similar comments. Alt energy skepticism too.

    validated – big dopamine X 2

  • Dear Dr. McPherson:

    Thanks for the video. Of course you’re not a climate scientist. I think the issue is that you have never published a single paper in any field remotely related to climate change, such as planetary atmospheres, glaciology, CO2, methane, etc., whereas the people we label with the term “climate scientist” generally have.

    Also, if you’re going call yourself an expert in the field of extinction, could you please list your published papers in that field, especially the ones related to climate caused extinctions.

    The heavy implication of your video is that any scientist who says he studies climate change can then claim expertise equivalent to James Hansen. Let us be the judge of that by publishing your list of publications so that we can compare. Afterall, brain surgeons and proctologist are both scientists–but would you let a proctologist perform brain surgery on you?

    (Btw, just to prove I’m not biased, I promise that if Hansen tours the world claiming to be an expert in Range Science, I’ll make the same demands of him.)

    http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/authors/jhansen.html

  • ‘Japan’ is back online.

    The latest value: 10,631,176 km2(May 27, 2016).

    http://ads.nipr.ac.jp/vishop/vishop-extent.html

  • @ Guy
    Thank you, Guy this talk you have Derek Jensen, it feels like you are talking directly to me, I feel I am part of the conversation. The rhythm of the conversation draws me in and you both shine. You are speaking the language close to my heart
    Like the difference between acoustic music and loud badly amplified music. The acoustic music is more intimate. It draws you in you in… you become come part of the double bass… you can hear the whisper of a horn and the brushes on the drums. You come closer to hear more. The best compliment that a musician can have after a performance is “you did not play enough; I wanted more.” This is how I felt after this talk.
    But of course, the no bullshit science is the background any conversation with Guy, the solid rock to start any conversation, there are no bargaining points, now the conversation can go any direction. You discuss and challenge all aspects, we can agree we are all squabbling songbirds, we can agree it is not all about us and more and more
    I always enjoy the” this is not all about us” …line, as it is only with this attitude can I find some humility in my life, take responsibility and accept that I am part of the problem, when it has all been “about me”, those periods in my life have left a trail of wreckage. I am brought back to earth with this thought” this is not all about us”, this is a daily struggle of letting go of my preconditioning and the solution is being there for others and the whole picture(bioshpehre). Not attached to the outcome
    When I think of my Patriarchal conditioning, when and how I fall down, I learn from mothers or my wife the mother, always nurturing, always putting others first and never complaining. And all this in the face of adversity. This is strength…there is too much macho Patriarchal bullshit in our world.

  • Elroy, my publications in the arena of climate science are listed with my others here. Let me know when you’ve read and understand them, along with all materials in the syllabi. Perhaps we can have an intelligent conversation at that point.


  • I have to admit, that I don’t read comments based on Empire sheeps attidude anymore here at NBL. I just read the inspiring and honest comments, because I feel enriched and heightened by these kinda comments. I just don’t want to waste my precious time on losers who are full of wrath and hatred because they can not percieve anything beyond their small Empire sheeps perspective. Yeah, you know who you are- or don’t you? 🙂 After all, everybody got his very own Karma, that’s my view on Justice:

    Nobody can run aways from himself- yes, I really like that. You feel hatred against others? You want to see all humans croak? Well, enjoy the Fire of your small-minded wrath and your small-minded hatred that’s burning hot and painful within you, not within me 😎

    This comment of LWA should be cast in stone:

    ” People huff and puff here at NBL over how bad it’s going to be when chaos finally erupts around them. It’s like they want pity or something. Yet, did they pity anyone when the U.S. of A. turned places like Sudan into complete chaos to get at their oil for cheap? Or the Gaza Strip? Or Iraq? Or Afghanistan? No, somehow it only matters now when they themselves are going to suffer .. and the world better sit up and take notice too, because an American has spoken now. Now an American is going to suffer, what a horror.

    What melodrama after all the chaos and suffering they have caused all over the planet … as if they had no idea people have been suffering at their hands and living in chaos already for several centuries now.

    Now it’s going to affect them, and they act like the world has never seen this before (or already.) That’s pretty sheltered. Welcome to the world you created America. Fun, isn’t it?”

    And not just that. They also want to see everybody else croak, because “we are all the same!” ! It’s the weird affect of suicidal characters, it’s a psychological repression strategy (where there is oppression, there is always repression too!) that’s been going on for centuries and that, when finally confronted with their very own, self-induced desaster, bursts out in blind wrath and hatred against themselves and all others, against the whole human race. It is Doctor Faustus, on his way down to Hell…

    http://tinyurl.com/o9qy57h

    Muhahaha, the Empire sheeps don’t like to be analyzed, they don’t like to be naked, even in the face of extinction, gush, and the more and evermore naked they appear. Mephisto was a reputable psychologist too, hehe, he always sticked his spiky finger into Faust’s Empire wounds, whenever Faust asked for it and Mephisto has always been scapegoated for no reason whatsover- yeah, Empire sheeples hate to take a look in the mirror 😎

    “ I see my discourse leaves you cold;
    Dear kids, I do not take offense;
    Recall: the Devil, he is old,
    Grow old yourselves, and he’ll make sense!”

    Goethe’s Faust, First Part


  • @Henry Holt

    ” Like the difference between acoustic music and loud badly amplified music. The acoustic music is more intimate. It draws you in…”

    Yeah, that’s why I play acoustic almost all the time. I have an “acoustic” amp for 10 years now, but I NEVER use it, hahaha. Acoustic music gives more shades of dynamics and you can’t hide behind big equipement, you are nacked when you play acoustically. Someone once said:

    ” Real art means leaving things out.”

  • Guy’s very thorough scientific synopsis (third segment entitled; “See how far we have come.”) inadvertently failed to mention a critically predictive paper by Shakhova & Semelitov et al from September, 2015.

    Abstract:

    Sustained release of methane (CH4) to the atmosphere from thawing Arctic permafrost may be a positive and significant feedback to climate warming. Atmospheric venting of CH4 from the East Siberian Arctic Shelf (ESAS) was recently reported to be on par with flux from the Arctic tundra; however, the future scale of these releases remains unclear. Here, based on results of our latest observations, we show that CH4 emissions from this shelf are likely to be determined by the state of subsea permafrost degradation. We observed CH4 emissions from two previously understudied areas of the ESAS: the outer shelf, where subsea permafrost is predicted to be discontinuous or mostly degraded due to long submergence by seawater, and the near shore area, where deep/open taliks presumably form due to combined heating effects of seawater, river run-off, geothermal flux and pre-existing thermokarst. CH4 emissions from these areas emerge from largely thawed sediments via strong flare-like ebullition, producing fluxes that are orders of magnitude greater than fluxes observed in background areas underlain by largely frozen sediments. We suggest that progression of subsea permafrost thawing and decrease in ice extent could result in a significant increase in CH4 emissions from the ESAS.

    Guy’s synopsis did include a more recent critical article in Nature/Geoscience, April, 2016; by Semelitov & Shakhova et al.

    Acidification of East Siberian Arctic Shelf waters through addition of freshwater and terrestrial carbon

    Abstract:

    Ocean acidification affects marine ecosystems and carbon cycling, and is considered a direct effect of anthropogenic carbon dioxide uptake from the atmosphere1, 2, 3. Accumulation of atmospheric CO2 in ocean surface waters is predicted to make the ocean twice as acidic by the end of this century4. The Arctic Ocean is particularly sensitive to ocean acidification because more CO2 can dissolve in cold water5, 6. Here we present observations of the chemical and physical characteristics of East Siberian Arctic Shelf waters from 1999, 2000–2005, 2008 and 2011, and find extreme aragonite undersaturation that reflects acidity levels in excess of those projected in this region for 2100. Dissolved inorganic carbon isotopic data and Markov chain Monte Carlo simulations of water sources using salinity and δ18O data suggest that the persistent acidification is driven by the degradation of terrestrial organic matter and discharge of Arctic river water with elevated CO2 concentrations, rather than by uptake of atmospheric CO2. We suggest that East Siberian Arctic Shelf waters may become more acidic if thawing permafrost leads to enhanced terrestrial organic carbon inputs and if freshwater additions continue to increase, which may affect their efficiency as a source of CO2.

  • “To be or not to be”…a Troll.

    All I did was post a quote, which when considering the objective history of Homo Saps, rings quite true. All Nemesis had to do if he disagreed, was to say so. The onus however is to objectively prove that the quote isn’t true. Nemesis knows full well that the author of the quote means all of us collectively, but instead uses the opportunity to launch into a diatribe on “Empire” plus an additional inferred discrediting because Gerrold is a “only” a Sci-Fi author. Perhaps “Troll” isn’t the exact word, but its close.

    If Nemesis wishes to debate the Anthropology, and why we do what we do, I would suggest that he take the subject up with Desmond Morris, author of 1967’s “The Naked Ape”. As I recall, the Theologians “went ape”;-).

    I would go further and suggest that our current “predicament” was and is inevitable, because even though we are very good at technological changes, there is at its root, our mental hardwiring which has changed very little since the Hunter Gatherer stage 10,000 years ago.

  • Even a wonderful scientist & decent fellow, like James Hansen, can’t give up his empty hope-ism.

    See his video presentation at YouTube;”Ice melt, sea level rise, & super storms.”

    After telling us; “When warming occurs driven by growing climate forcing, the rate of ice melt will grow non-linearly.” he goes on to ask; “Have we past a point of no return – will we shut down the AMOC?”

    Answering his own question, Hansen opines; “I doubt it, but it’s conceivable.”

    Understating the ugly truth, he fudges on; “We have reached a ‘dangerous situation'” … because we are causing changes that, “will cause them (our children) irreparable harm.”

    Arctic methane & permafrost release in the near future will most assuredly kill every one of us.

    Death is surely “irreparable harm.”

    Even the bewildered Pope has grasped the ugly truth of NTE.

    We can thank Guy for giving us a chance to make the most of our time left.

    All the rest is flapdoodle; including bonkers Donald, Hillarious-the Israeli-whore, be bop Bernie, Madame DeFarge, & Betty Boop.

  • Mod Note ~

    drugaddledtroll/stevetroll/steve ~

    I deleted your most recent comment due to personal attacks. please attempt to make your points without such personal attacks. thank you.

    ~ mo

  • @ mo, for the record is “empire sheeps” not a personal attack against a much broader group. There are a lot of personal attacks around here couched in innuendo and allusion. Drugaddledtroll are the attack descriptions leveled at me that I never levelled at others. And if I wanted to go through the last three weeks around here I could come up with many, many, many, Did I say many? ugly examples of personal attacks around here. Why me mo. The allusion by hubbard that range science is some lesser discipline of study concerned with rats and weeds in a wasteland desert than the vaulted discipline of glaciology is a personal attack on guy. Can you really not see that according to hubbard range science is to be equated with proctology and that brain surgery is to be equated with the more esthetically edifying astronomy or whatever other patriarchal study of the mechanical parts of the universe that are far more important than the study of “rats and weeds”. And he didn’t say rats and weeds but he didn’t have to. The lovers of patriarchy/civilization can make the most egregiuos attacks with no censorship.Would you mind laying out what the definition of a personal attack is. Are is it just totally arbitrary???

  • .
    @Mike D.

    Back to the tired old ‘we’re all the same, we all did this collectively, it was always in our nature to do this’ mantra.

    Did you even watch the discussion between Derrick Jensen and Guy from this thread?

    Example after example after example of how Americans have been warped and manipulated mentally, through a myriad of identified conditioning and propaganda streams, in order to bring out all the most extreme aspects of patriarchy and aggression in the mentality of the American citizenry. Sports obsession, competition obsession, military obsession, hatred of outsiders obsession … and on and on goes the list of brainwashing aspects contained in American daily life, some discussed by Guy and Derrick in that interview.

    And you ignore this ability we have to be able to warp and condition the human mind using simply ideas, and return to that old and tired ‘this is our natural hardwired state’ line?

    I think I’m going to agree with Guy and not with you on this one, regardless of your dated author’s ‘theory.’ The idea that these behaviors have been hardwired into us since long ago falls apart even by simply looking at how opposite the indigenous economy (based on sharing and giving away material resources to the needy), and the economy that emerged out of Europe and was then perfected in America (based on exploiting and making resources scarce so the needy can be exploited.) That’s pretty opposite ‘behavior’, and doesn’t seem to have been ‘hardwired’ into humanity whatsoever at all. It’s taught, or more like conditioned into the mind.

    People who live outside of America can identify the trained mental attitudes that Americans carry around with them easily, and can often quite easily recognize it as an anomaly, and as not being normal behavior. Americans actually stick out like sore thumbs everywhere they go because of their bizarre behavior. Yet, to a person unaware of what’s happened to their mind, to someone on the inside and under the influence of the mental conditioning, their own behavior would appear as the norm to them. It would even be easy for them to assume everyone else operates under the same mental paradigms too.

    And as far as your author goes … it’s well observed … this condition of subconsciously producing endless fancy sounding diatribes in order to rationalize the current dominant culture as being ‘normal’, when it is anything but. It’s partly subconscious denial and a predisposition toward rationalizing things into happy packages, and also part welcomed propaganda by those who are aware and have an agenda. I’m sure Oxford happily published that theory to promote the status quo.

    “Nothing to see here folks, it’s always been this way.” (How convenient a message once you understand how propaganda works.) “We even have some bones to prove it … see, fancy bones.”

    You should see some of the disgusting writings people produced about the Black Africans last century, all very objective and socially scientific sounding too, and yet nothing more than vile racism couched in scientific jargon and self deluding double speak, just like the eloquent Dickens rant we saw quoted here recently, the one calling for the extermination of the indigenous. It was all very properly punctuated too … nice trick sounding important is, isn’t it.

    No, I disagree with you and your author Mike. And theology has nothing to do with it either, since I’m not a theist (though you seem to be, you have the deferral to authority part of Christian brainwashing down pat it seems with your acceptance of what some Oxford guy from last century published in an old book … and it was published during a time when glorifying empire through the anthropological and social sciences was all the rage too.)

    Some of us figure out how propaganda and social conditioning worked, like Guy and Derrick seem to also have. I don’t think this path we went down was hardwired at all … I think it was coerced. And no … you aren’t ever going to find a published paper from Oxford admitting to that. Being a cheating, lying, scum is not the natural state of a human. That has to be learned, like a perversion. Wetiko.

  • hey drugaddledtroll ~

    “Would you mind laying out what the definition of a personal attack is. Are is it just totally arbitrary???”

    almost always it is a judgement call we have to make. comments that verge into heavy racist language and slurs/”jokes”, vulgar genitalia references, and so on, are generally the ones that get deleted very quickly.

    fortunately this happens very rarely. it is usually the case that the commenter is unaware of just how inappropriate their language is. frequently if the commenter’s words are rephrased to refer to a different race or gender, the inappropriateness is immediately clear.

    but yes, of course you are right, personal attacks occur here all the time, such as just what you are alluding to. we ask commenters to use good judgement, consideration, and to stick to discussing ideas as much as possible.

    ~ mo

  • Second post mo, don’t get emotionally over anxiuos about deleting me. @ henry Love you dude, Its Lierre KIeth, Lierre Kieth, whatever she says that raises hackles in all us whitey males is exactly what belonging to patriarchy has done to fuck us. Lierre Kieth,perfect human female. we are all subordinates as derrick would more than likely agree with. Oh yeah How about a personal self attack. I am a disgusting white raping penised one belonging to a culture with rape irremoveably ensconced as its most coveted core. Delete my attack on me!!!!!!! @lwa, I might as just shut my loser incompetent mouth,sincerely. you just laid out patriarch mindfuck better than anyone. You really should write for DGR. They need the linguistically highly skilled.

  • And mo you can delete this one if you like cause it is my third. Spezio just called Hillary Clinton “hillariuos Israeli whore”. That is a rankly, did I say most rank, misogyny that I find profoundly offensive and anyone with even a superficial understanding of the horror that is the culture that we belong to would immediately throw in the basement and beat with a pipe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • @LWA

    How darest thoust call me a “Theist”! I remain in the Richard Dawkins school of militant Atheists, however as are most of us, I’m only 99.9% Atheist, The first one that shows up at my doorstep with with a genuine deity (any of them, millions to choose from) wins my immediate conversion.

  • .
    @Mike … Richard Dawkins school

    Then is not Richard Dawkins your god, and militant atheism your religion?

    To be involved in either side of that debate … is to be involved in it ! (I am not, it’s a non thing to me, either side of it.)

    Modern Christianity is less about ‘theism’, and more about wiring the brain to accept deferral to authorities in a patriarchal system … authorities such as Oxford and the ‘selectively displayed knowledge’ they use to promote patriarchy and the status quo. It’s not objective stuff they teach there you know, just ask Guy what school is really all about. (hint … washing and brains.)

    As long as a person gets down with the deference to patriarchal authorities part of the plan, they really don’t care if you believe in their god(s) or not. That’s what makes Dawkins ranting so dumb and irrelevant, the dude has missed the point entirely. It was more your deferral to patriarchal authorities that I was pointing at, and not your beliefs about the tooth fairy. Again, as long as the former is achieved … the top patriarchs could care less about the latter. They long ago devised plans to deal with the people who were no longer taken in by religion. The likes of the aggressive and hate spewing Richard Dawkins are a welcomed plan B when plan empires plan A fails. The fellow is just as embroiled in hate as any mind subdued by patriarchy ever was. Don’t fall for it, Dawkins is just a wingnut blowing on your bad boy embers.

    How does that old saying go … those who can’t do biology, attack feminists?

    Hmmm, attacking feminists, how patriarchal indeed. A truly empire approved gig. Religion for the non-religious. Yuk, yuk, yuk. Or, as Nemesis says … jum, jum, jum.

    Thanks for the chat Mike, I appreciated it. Your last response, I realize, was humor. And yes, I grinned. Thanks for that. 🙂

  • Some good points by LWA. I’ve spent my life working to avoid and attempting to dilute the constant barrage of brainwash.

  • Richard Dawkins is an excellent biologist who has made many people aware of the wonders of the natural world and how it functions,and of how mind-expanding that can be,compared to the stultifying,mind-cramping dogma of monotheism. I haven’t read it,but his book written primarily for children,
    ‘The Magic of Reality’ is reputedly excellent. One of the more depressing
    videos I have watched was of children with glazed eyes reciting lengthy
    passages of religious text. Religious wars are unparalleled for their
    viciousness. The world really would be a better place without monotheism.
    John Lennon was right.Imagine that.

  • I second that… LWA’s understanding of how Empire molds culture to suit its ends is top notch. Propaganda and brainwashing sometimes happen ever so subtly. But for the billions of people who were craftily commandeered to do the work of empire, we wouldn’t be having a crisis on our hands. How else did puny little two-legged creatures manage to destroy an entire planet? Humans are highly adaptive and the stories they are “programmed” with determine their values and behavior. The indigenous people understood this important aspect of human psychology extremely well and their stories functioned well to keep things in balance. Civilization, on the other hand, programs us to disengage from nature’s laws and co-opts us into first buying into and then spreading a sick culture. This it achieves through the now-sophisticated art of psychological indoctrination.

  • LWA,

    I THIRD the High 5 Salute, great job at getting that down so succinctly. May I/we quote you as LWA in the credit line?

    Really appreciate what goes on here, at times a little petty in riff raff, but then emerges some true brilliance. It is the process that brings it forth.

    Many have done so, but this strikes close to my core understanding.

    Thank You

  • Woody Woodworth Says:

    I THIRD the High 5 Salute, great job at getting that down so succinctly. May I/we quote you as LWA in the credit line?

    —-

    Woody, let me quote you in the credit line too, while the river of gratitude flows here (considering this river often goes dry given the times we live in). I remember it was you who posted a couple of videos of Mark Passio in this space a couple of months back. Thanks for that. Passio has a wonderful ability to connect the dots and articulate it all too, going by the small fraction of his work that I have listened to/seen so far. The Michael Tellinger video you posted recently was interesting too.

    I agree with you 100% when you say this about this space: “Really appreciate what goes on here, at times a little petty in riff raff, but then emerges some true brilliance. It is the process that brings it forth.”

    Thanks to Guy for keeping the spirit of anarchism alive here.

    ========

    david higham Says:

    One of the more depressing videos I have watched was of children with glazed eyes reciting lengthy passages of religious text. Religious wars are unparalleled for their viciousness. The world really would be a better place without monotheism.

    —-

    I haven’t read Dawkins but have seen some of his debates with apologists of monotheistic religions. What I find is, at least in certain parts of the world, and certain classes (largely urban, progressive, liberals) there is a new monotheistic religion that’s not unlike the ones we are talking of. The new religion is Scientism.

    I cringed when I first heard that it was required for first graders in Silicon Valley area schools to learn computer programming. There has been an inordinate amount of emphasis on STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Math) skills for students of all ages. Some who have imagined the impact that such an extreme “left-brain curriculum” would have on kids have petitioned to change the acronym to STEAM with the introduction of Arts! But STEM is the word in the valley, and soon in the larger technosphere.

    Now, I don’t know a whole lot about Dawkins but I have noticed that he’s put forth as an apostle for this new religion of Scientism. Although he is an avowed atheist, his work is often cited in the scriptures of Scientism, a religion that is not a religion.

    It’s fascinating to see the journey of man in this context…

    There was a time when everything in the creation around us was sacrosanct. Everything was seen as alive and even conscious. There was no such division as we have today between life and non-life. Interconnectedness was de rigueur.

    Then we moved into an era where certain things were not so sacred while most things were still deemed sacred. While it was previously forbidden to till soil (for it was tantamount to digging into the skin of the Mother), it became somewhat acceptable eventually. While it was forbidden to work with metal (for it comes from the bosom of the Mother), it became a matter of moral relativism at some point.

    The next phase seems to have been, “certain things are sacred but most things are not”. This was a quantitative shift from the previous era, establishing a definitive direction to the one-way trend of marching from a world perceived to be made up of conscious free-willed participants to one perceived as a deterministic set-up. This phase, however, gets us only halfway there, and marked by societies adhering to largely polytheistic religions and other “many but not all things are sacred” worldviews. Many Gods, many holy places, but much else is fungible in mainstream culture.

    Monotheistic religions arrived in short order and loudly declared there is but one thing that is sacred. The rest if up for grabs. It doesn’t matter what one does the rest of the week as long as one attends a place of worship for one hour on one day. One God, and that too in Heaven, unseen yet all-seeing. One sacred thing but the world is your oyster, do as you will with it, but pay your respects to that one sacred thing.

    Finally, we arrive in the modern times. The age of the machine. There is no God. There is nothing sacred. The Universe is a deterministic machine that uses participants that go about their day unconsciously.

    Is it any wonder that we have first graders being taught computers when they would rather be playing with dirt? And the irony of it being the possibility that this machine-world might not be around for the first graders of today to fully participate in!

    Everything is sacred -> Some things are not sacred, rest is -> Only some things are sacred, rest isn’t -> Just one sacred thing -> Nothing is sacred

    Fancy being conscious of this long journey toward unconsciousness!

  • @ Nemisis

    ” Real art means leaving things out.”

    Yes,we are on the same page.. Like the line drawings of Matisse , direct and capturing the pure essence of the subject… or better put in Mattises words

    “Would not it be best to leave room to mystery?”

    “In the beginning you must subject yourself to the influence of nature. You must be able to walk firmly on the ground before you start walking on a tightrope”.

  • Considering all the talk of Patriarchy, i thought this was in order

  • Seeking to understand the natural world and the processes within it,which is what science is, doesn’t preclude feelings of love,awe and reverence towards it. For a book-length discussion of this,try ‘Unweaving the Rainbow’ by Richard Dawkins. Or read some of the comments from the scientists who have spent time,in some cases most of their lives, studying the Great Barrier Reef. The acute distress which they have undergone
    by the events occurring at present should dispel any notion that scientists
    do not experience those feelings towards the natural world which they
    study.

  • Seems NBL has been remodeled to a cross between Salon and MTV.

    Oh well, ever hear the theory of the LCD?

  • Why Patriarchy Is The Greatest Social System Ever Created

    Imagine you are part of a small tribe in a survival situation. Conquest, war, famine, death – any of the four horsemen could strike at any moment. How would you divide social roles?

    http://www.returnofkings.com/27852/why-patriarchy-is-the-greatest-social-system-ever-created

  • I have in my collection all of Dawkin’s works. except for “the Magic of Reality. I also have all of Stephen Jay Gould’s works, including “The Structure of Evolutionary Theory.” I also have Robert Triver’s “Genes in Conflict,” along with Matt Ridley’s “The Red Queen.” And I used to have many more titles before a storm ruined my book collection. I re-bought most of what I have now. There seems to be a lot of “Well I haven’t read Dawkins ,but . . .” going on here. Dawkins and the word “hate” do not belong in the same sentence. He has always based his arguments on reason and intellect.

    For example, here is a passage from “The God Delusion,” pp. 286-289, in the section titled “The Dark Side of Absolutism:”

    “In 2006 in Afganistan Abdul Rahman was sentenced to death for converting to Christianity. Did he kill anyone, hurt anybody, steal anything, damage anything? No. All he did was change his mind.” (My note: so much for the progessiveness of the pre-U.S.-invasion Taliban).
    . . . The American Taliban is a source of obnoxiously barmy quotations, beginning with a prize one from somebody called Ann Coulter, who American colleagues have persuaded me is not a spoof . . . ‘We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.’ Other gems include Bob Dornan’s ‘Don’t use the word “gay” unless it’s an acronym for “got AIDS yet?” General William G. Boykin’s ‘George Bush was not elected by a majority of voters in the United States, he was appointed by God.’–and an older one, the famous environmental policy of Ronald Reagan’s Secretary of the Interior: ‘We don’t have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand.’ . . .”

    I don’t see any support for “Empire” or “Patriarchy”in Dawkin’s arguments; quite the contrary. You guys that spout opinions based on nothing need to do your homework.

    Best Wishes

  • A giant tropical storm system brewed up covering all of Central America. From the Atlantic to the Pacific a thousand miles of thundering rain. Bucking waves. Electric bolt skies. Sailing on days & nights of raw power. There is no survival, only becoming one with the booming thrashing elements. Nothing solid. Deep dark seas below. A galaxy of stars above I can no longer see. TURBULANCE. Volcano Turrialba in Costa Rica is erupting.

    The Earth is alive yet it barely exists in the vast scope of the local cluster of solar systems. Our solar cluster of suns & planets out on the spinning arm of this galaxy. Then this Milky Way galaxy with Andromeda next door forms a cluster of galaxies. Yet all these massive galaxies are only a single tiny dot of light in the cosmic superstructure – connected to strands of larger galactic “structures.”

    And it all looks like it could fit into a Planck length neuron. In the vast scope way down this pale blue dot is it a miracle MC PHERSON can experience the extinction he lives for??? Pluck a single atom from all the sands on Mars. Oh, but the entire universe…Are not all the beaches of doom on Earth enough. A universe of atoms inside every grain.

    Salt in my hair, nose, in between my toes. I pour into a Panama City hotel business center. Air conditioned. CNN. Clocks set for every time zone. Time to admit I’m back on the grid. Turned it off in my mind for awhile but we do not shut it down. Container ships of every Empire plow thru the Panama canal. Billions of plastic bottles containing everything to consume on the move. Bug spray, hair spray, air spray labeled “fresh sea spray”….oh now that is a bit ironic. Hotel gym Sea spray in a can. Is this planet for real???

    Single handed sailor. My palms are blistered raw from the ropes. A few more stormy days bucking the currents toward Serape Costa Rica. Why am inside this lobby? Thinking about Babajingo? Hotter than ever! The biological storm of the century is about to be born. Wide awake in the wake of our nature…it was nature giving birth to all this from atomic elements. A handful of us built her blue beam microwaves and bioweapons. Faster forms of destruction than even before created. Trace the original bat order back to nature evolving, accelerating, dancing as fast as she can.

    Yet there is also the creation of new light forms. Splitting photons with an inverse spin. A breakthrough in time travel. Quantum tunneling. Absolutely no limits in infinity in altering the laws of gravity. Nukes to destroy Earth or save it from an asteroid. Let’s get SIR Nemesis a ticket to Rica. Welcome aboard. A month away from Germany, a month totally off the cyber grid. A change of mind frame. Come go bananas. Be the hundredth monkey. LWA butterfly effect, man are we ever all in this together. Hollywood endings. Everyone take a break from the internet. Feet off the ground. Waves & waves of no Time like now to take a breath of your own excellent escape moments. Let love radiate then shut it down.

  • Kent Bush: Extinction suddenly doesn’t sound so bad..
    The 2016 Presidential campaign has been a rough one for America.

    http://www.news-star.com/article/20160530/NEWS/160539987

  • I have read very little of Dawkins. I started to learn more about him, but I soon found out that Dawkins actually knows very, very little about religion or philosophy in general. A person would have to know something about religion, however, to be able to see how much Dawkins simply makes up out of his own imagination, doesn’t know, and is actually downright dishonest about.

    Let’s turn all this around and look at what the “scientists” have contributed to the world, those brilliant scientists who love nature so much have given us a world chock full of chemicals in EVERYTHING, nuclear waste and warfare, Fukushima – soon to be 400+ of them, plastic that is suffocating the earth, deadly industrial toxins, death of the oceans, did I mention plastic?, vivisection, Dr. Mengele, fantasies about how “they” will figure it out before it becomes a problem in connection with nuclear energy, fantasies about human “greatness” and achievement, fantasies about the superiority of scientists as human beings, and a number of other scientist-human missteps that are among the worst the world has ever seen.

    On top of everything else, after they work and work and work to find out all about power in the universe, which they sell or earn money to learn, they then give knowledge and technology away to other humans and claim no responsibility whatsoever for their part in things.

    It’s all such unbelievable bullshit that it is dumbfounding, and frankly it all looks quite religious to me.

    But back to Dawkins, I watched a video with him once where he decided that if God existed, God would be more complex, more unfathomable than any theologian ever considered. In fact, one of the oldest foundational tenets of western Judeo-Christian religion and philosophy is the unknowable, unfathomable, eternally mysterious nature of God. There is even a Latin term for it that I cannot remember, but the concept is very, very ancient and all other knowledge about the universe is based on the unfathomable nature of God. So, Dawkins makes this one up decides he’s the only person who understands this, and no theologians have ever considered it.

    Dawkins does this a lot.

    What Dawkins also does is attack human beings and their behaviors, something that is easy to do. You can pick any perceived group of humans, the religious and the non-religious, the professional and the laborer, any race, any culture, and find something that people do that is destructive and is associated with insane beliefs – e.g. nuclear power (scientism). Dawkins’ logic is nonexistent, his understanding is as nonexistent, but he does what I have seen “scientists” do since I was a teenager. When you get to be a “scientist” you don’t really have to know anything about subjects other than your own field of study – you’re so smart you can just tell everyone how things are by going in your mind and deciding. You know, it’s “evolution,” and “all people everywhere do it,” etc. Universalizing and generalizing and being God with a scathing omniscience that allows the extra smart people to know anything and everything, regardless of their real level of knowledge.

    In fact, when I looked at his logic in connection with, and his real lack of knowledge of the subject of religion, and I found so many flaws and errors so quickly, that I quit very soon into looking at Dawkins. So, you can count me as one started to do my homework on Dawkins and found there really wasn’t anything worth considering. If I want to just look at stupid human behavior, I don’t need to blame religion. I can see it everywhere in people, and in connection with pretty much every subject and activity that humans focus on.

    Dawkins should stick to biology if he’s good at that – I don’t know and I don’t care, but he is a bozo as a philosopher and an abstract thinker. And if he’s that good at biology, where the hell has he been for the past 30 years when the world has been actively murdered? He’s fighting a religious war. Great. Genius, for sure.

  • @LWA

    We’ll then have to agree to disagree, but the Reptile Brain is still in the drivers seat for the “majority”, there are indeed some who seem to actually allow frontal lobe processing to overcome those hardwired responses. There are unfortunately, not enough of them to counter what the majority of others have wrought…

    As to Religion and my lack of it (pending of course, presentation of an actual Deity), as Christopher Hitchens put it “we don’t want to play with your toys”. Way too many religions want to cram it down your throats, or historically serve you up as the main course in one of their “cookouts” should you refuse…

  • I love it when people use terms like ‘reptilian brain’ and expect these things to be answers we should all accept and respect. My first question is, exactly what have you looked at in connection with consciousness and studies on consciousness. Let’s start with dreams and your ability to understand those, to know how they are created, what they mean, what they do, etc., etc. Please explain to me how it all works as science understands this and other consciousness studies so far?

    Oh, you haven’t looked? Somehow I figured that.

  • Satish Musunuru Says:
    June 2nd, 2016 at 2:36 am

    “david higham Says:

    One of the more depressing videos I have watched was of children with glazed eyes reciting lengthy passages of religious text. Religious wars are unparalleled for their viciousness. The world really would be a better place without monotheism.

    —-

    I haven’t read Dawkins but have seen some of his debates with apologists of monotheistic religions. What I find is, at least in certain parts of the world, and certain classes (largely urban, progressive, liberals) there is a new monotheistic religion that’s not unlike the ones we are talking of. The new religion is Scientism.

    I cringed when I first heard that it was required for first graders in Silicon Valley area schools to learn computer programming. There has been an inordinate amount of emphasis on STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Math) skills for students of all ages. Some who have imagined the impact that such an extreme “left-brain curriculum” would have on kids have petitioned to change the acronym to STEAM with the introduction of Arts! But STEM is the word in the valley, and soon in the larger technosphere.

    Now, I don’t know a whole lot about Dawkins but I have noticed that he’s put forth as an apostle for this new religion of Scientism. Although he is an avowed atheist, his work is often cited in the scriptures of Scientism, a religion that is not a religion.”

    Kids are pushed into a computerized life earlier and earlier. This is jus one facet of a society that’s totally techno-fetishized. So they can program their MeDevice better than mod adults, but grow up incapable of having a conversation with another human face to face being face to face using anything except broken phrases,

    David Noble wrote a great book, The Religion of Science, demonstrating how science and scientism are in fact monotheism re-cast, to the hilt, including the very key aspics of the mastery of nature by humans and their transcendence of it, with compeers and space travel being the ultimate displays of these sentiments.

    Thanks again for your excellent insights and for elevating the discussion in this forum.

  • Like my new name? I was going to choose Hillary (israeli-whore) Clinton but that seems to be protected speech at NBL for it is still posted. Wow…. israeli-whore clinton is a true twofer, antisemitism and misogyny all rolled into one. And you know me, I like to push the envelope so I have thought up a deragatory remark for the most abused group here at NBL (not so wealthy whitey). @hubbard, well I perused Guy’s academic achievements And I have to tell you I have spent the last 20 yrs studying western arid ecosystems (in an undisciplined manner, I am a layperson) and I could speak before an audience for an hour on each arid biome in the southwest for with out any notes and yet my understanding is fairly superficial compared to Guy’s. But we all know I am just a drug addled troglodyte with a brain that never developed past 8th grade. But you.OH glorious you, on the other hand or most certainly the most brilliant human being that has ever condescended to post at NBL. And any lame analysis in guy’s long academic career of “rats and weeds” could be assimilated in short order buy someone so accomplished as you. Where are you hubbard? We are waiting to be enlightened.

  • Now (closing the pages of Salon and turning off MTV (no videos anymore anyway), back to our primary subject…

    Ah,umm…now I remember!

    Has anyone noted that on the Weather Channel and particularly Weather Underground, that actual mention is now being made of slowing upper level winds (even graphs showing the slowdown over the past few years) , which is one of the reasons the once in 100 year etc. storms to be occurring seemingly every other week. Paul Beckwith gets an “I told you so” (I’ll abbreviate henceforth to “ITYS”) award with this fact alone.

    They’re also mentioning increasing warming (wouldn’t want to panic anybody so they leave out “abrupt”) with associated increases in atmospheric moisture. ITYS award to Guy too!

    I’m staying tuned with bated breath for when the first mention of abrupt change is brought up, but that will probably take something like
    a Superstorm parking itself off the east coast for a week or two.

    @Mark Austin

    Elon Musk now seems to agree that perhaps we are indeed living in a Simulated Universe. If this is true, rather than living through an extremely messy and unpleasant end, I think I’d rather simulate my own going out in a hammock strung between two palm trees, beer in hand, a lovely quiet beach, a few lovely girls walking by…, and as my vision fades, all that’s left would be a fading Cheshire Cat like smile.

  • @ OGF
    Emmanuel Kant was a philosopher who came up with this argument: “Everything you think or plan is based on bad faith. So you believe that you will go for a walk–well, you don’t know if the place you plan on walking to still exists, or if you’ll be alive by the time you get ready to walk. It’s all assumptions made on “bad faith.” He then went on to logicize that if all human intention is based on bad faith, then it really doesn’t matter what you believe. He used this as his justification for being a Christian. Descartes vivisected dogs because his “philosophy” told him they had no souls (only humans have souls, and there was no doggie jesus to redeem them), and so dogs were just automatons that only acted like they felt pain. Philosophers can’t control the results of their “logical” thinking, or where it leads them.

    As far as Dawkin’s knowledge of religion, he is only commenting on the effects of religion on society, and he does not criticize people, just the negative things people do in the name of religion. One does not need a divinity degree to see the evil that religious extremism can cause.
    As for “Scientism” I accuse you of being a full-fledged member. I see that you use technology. Did science have anything to do with that? Einstein, Bohr, Pauli, Schrodinger, Heisenberg, they’re all in your computer and cellphone. The reason science is awarded a place of respect is because it works. The problem is with people, not science.

    As for consciousness, we’ll see. I think that there is something special about living things that makes them conscious, but maybe someone could make a conscious computer, and prove me wrong. So, science doesn’t have all the answers, and I feel that those people who think it is just a matter of time before it does, are flat wrong. But even shamans know when to use western medicines, because the medicines work. That fact does not in any way negate the value of shamanic beliefs and principles.

    From reading Dawkins extensively, I know he is in awe of life and nature, and has been a vocal environmentalist. That’s where he’s been for the past thirty years. I daresay he’s had more of an impact than anyone who writes on this comments thread.

    Best Wishes

  • It must be great to be able to argue when you can just whip out a “it’s white man science” card whenever it’s convenient.

    NTE is based on white man science, but that science is ok in this instance. Oh, and the card is also ok if I need it to support any other argument based on my “emotions”.

    It’s a flex card.

  • I really don’t know a tremendous amount about Dawkins but I am almost certain he is of the mind that every living being since the beginning of time is preprogrammed to always be jockeying for the first oppurtunity to hyperexploit all other living beings to the point of complete annihilation. “selfish gene anyone” And that mechanical view of life on earth fits very seamlessly into patriarchy. Or that it is inevitable that wealthy whitey (scientist,et.al) will murder the whole living planet and it is fruitless to argue against that because I am a scientist and only I hold the truth!!!

  • CSIS Homeland Defense: Asymmetric Warfare & VxR0 6-16-16 Page 99
    technical report:

    the most effective way to disseminate a biological agent is by aerosol. This method allows the simultaneous respiratory infection of a large number of people. Microscopic particles that are dispersed must remain airborne for long periods and may be transported by the wind over long distances. The particles are small enough to reach the tiny air sacs of the lungs (alveoli) and bypass the body’s natural filtering and defense mechanisms.
    According to experts, if larger particles are dispersed, they may fall to the ground, causing no injury , or become trapped in the upper respiratory tract, possibly causing infections but not necessarily death. From an engineering standpoint, it is easier to produce and disseminate the larger particles than the microscopic particles. Other critical technical hurdles include obtaining the proper size equipment to generate proper size aerosols, calculating the correct output rate (speed at which the equipment operates), and having the correct liquid composition.
    According to key experts with experience in biological warfare, biological agents can be processed into liquid or dry forms for dissemination on schedule for 2016-17 impact events. The NYC subway public non-compliance update tests conducted 4-26-16 prove that the non-lethal biological agent travelled as far as expected. Throughout the report we use the related disease term when referring to biological agents. We found that the disease term is used synonymously with the biological agent in discussions with the many experts we interviewed and documentation we reviewed. (9% population survival vectors)

  • Not sure this has been shared.

    Numbers going UP!!!

    http://www.usdebtclock.org/

  • .
    Thanks everyone for your thanks, Jody and Woody and Satish … gosh and shucks … who knew? 😉

    .
    @Satish … thanks for your comment. That was a striking way to look at the devolution we seem to have undergone subjectively as a species. The way you you summarized your point in the last few sentences was brilliant.

    It’s fascinating to see the journey of man in this context…

    Everything is sacred -> Some things are not sacred, rest is -> Only some things are sacred, rest isn’t -> Just one sacred thing -> Nothing is sacred

    Fancy being conscious of this long journey toward unconsciousness!

    Yes, fancy that indeed. I’ve already quoted you to somebody today. 😉

    .
    @apneaman … since you’re always reacting negatively to any ‘white man’ comments here, I’m going to assume yours was just an ‘argument based on your emotions.’ (Actually, they just seem to be comments about European culture and civilization.)

    It’s got nothing to do with wanting you to feel guilty (you’ve made that comment before.) It’s about understanding just what exactly went on here before we finally click out the lights. Why die ignorant about what really went on here, or in denial about it? 🙂

    .
    @Feed Jake … I’m surprised you would use the same logical fallacy that climate change deniers use when they say you can’t criticize oil if you are typing your criticism out on a computer made with oil (plastics.) It sounds good, but it’s really an illogical statement.

    .
    Tu quoque (/tuːˈkwoʊkwiː/; Latin for, “you also”) or the appeal to hypocrisy is an informal logical fallacy that intends to discredit the validity of the opponent’s logical argument by asserting the opponent’s failure to act consistently in accordance with its conclusion(s).

    Tu quoque “argument” follows the pattern:

    Person A makes claim X.
    Person B asserts that A’s actions or past claims are inconsistent with the truth of claim X.
    Therefore X is false.

    An example would be

    Jill: “I think the gun control bill shouldn’t be supported because it won’t be effective and will waste money.”
    Bill: “Well, just last month you supported the bill. So I guess you’re wrong now.”

    It is a fallacy because the moral character or past actions of the opponent are generally irrelevant to the logic of the argument. It is often used as a red herring tactic and is a special case of the ad hominem fallacy, which is a category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of fact about the person presenting or supporting the claim or argument.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

    .
    As far as further discussion of Dawkins … what can I say, the dude stirred up so much hatred toward (an atheist) feminist women, that his angry followers started issuing death threats to her. I myself live among a matriarchal community, so no, I think of nothing but a patriarchal male chauvinist pig whenever I’m reminded of Dawkins, sorry. From what lectures and debates I’ve seen of his, I would have to agree with OGF … he only ever takes a very thin (and rather cliche) slice of religious extremism, and then paints everyone with it using a very large brush. That’s disingenuous. If you like his biology work, then best wishes to you. I don’t like him though, he comes across to me as a flake.

    I think a large part of his outrage at religion stems from being forced to grow up a Catholic, which he deeply resents (I’ve seen him speak about this.) It’s sort of like Mile D. was alluding to. I think if you didn’t grow up being harassed by religious people or near any religion at all … then I think he maybe doesn’t have the same appeal as he might have to others (which means he may be just appealing to certain people’s emotions and their unique personal experiences with religion.)

    Really, as a non theist myself … why would I identify myself with a religion at all by claiming a staunch opposition to it, let alone join a club to regularly express that? (It’s like its own religion, it really is.) The whole thing just seems nutty to me. And then there’s that stirring up of hatred he does against women. Death threats from his followers … ya, that’s some effect he’s had all right, lol. And I do know a little more than just ‘nothing’ about Dawkins … who doesn’t by now? I wouldn’t waste time reading one of his books though, or give him a royalty for it. No thanks … wingnut. Like I say, I’m into matriarchy … so … no thanks. I just see another angry chauvinist asshole struggling with his own personal issues and venting about it publicly on the lecture circuit for a fee. Just a huckster making a buck, more like an entertainer.

    I notice that nobody has ever been able to get Dawkins to see how he’s actually acting no differently than the fundamental religionists he opposes, even though some have tried to point that out to him. He even uses the same arguments and defenses he accuses his opponents of using, but just can’t seem to see it in himself. Two sides … same coin. Rigid thinking. Exactly what the Romans took advantage of, on both sides of the polarity. Hate is hate, from either end.

    Anyway, that’s enough about Dawkins from me. Cancel, clear, delete with that nonsense.

    .
    Nobody seems to have read Nemesis’ excellent remark on the back page about how the Romans perfectly understood how fundamental scientism and fundamental religion are really just two sides of the same coin. They long ago perfected using either and both ‘beliefs’ to control people. After all, it’s got nothing to do what you believe … it’s all in how you behave. The polarities of either side behave, in the end, surprisingly the same … and both intensely ‘know’ something, to the point of hostility about it. You always have to watch out for Mr. Braincleaner man. He’s interested in getting you to BEHAVE a certain way. He really doesn’t care at all about what you think, or about what tool he uses to get you there … that parts irrelevant, it really is. Welcome to the machine.

    .
    @Mark … Great to have you drop in again from dropping out, will you have connectivity in Costa?

  • LWA, I’m not the one in denial. There is a group of you here that can only be described as extremists. Everything that is not 100% evil white man empire (no other color empire ever existed) all science you don’t like is bunk, and every “traditional” society and every single person in them that ever existed is super fucking awesome (even though no one alive has lived in one on this continent). Y’all harmonize and attack anyone, especially the women like Gail and Lidia, who has different evidence and even so much as tries to bring up any nuance – veer from the “story” in the slighthest. Then you all act as if we are unaware of the “empire” – like we fucking got here by accident. My dad was raging and about the united fruit company and the Dulles Bros and banks and “The School of the Americas” bla bla bla, as far back as when I was 7 – 8 years old in the 1970’s. I know plenty about the empire and how it works, I’ve been watching and taking notes since I was a kid and have never fit in. Plus my indoctrination was lighter simply due to the fact I was born in Canada. I also have had some contact with native peoples – first drinking with them and later going to many AA meetings and other sober events on the Chehalis reservation. Met and talked to the people. Anyway, y’all can think what you like, but that harmonizing and outright rejection of other opinions and evidence is the pattern I have picked up on. Labeling every single solitary bit of science as bunk because it’s the “white mans” is conspiracy thinking writ large.

  • @ OGF,LWA

    I really was not aware of Dawkin’s asinine and inexcusable conduct on twitter. I apologize for questioning your opinion of this man, as he has shown a callous disregard for people’s rights and dignity, and I was shocked at his thoroughly reprehensible actions. He used to receive Humanitarian awards, and now he has degenerated to this.

    I’m sorry if I offended you guys that knew the truth, again I apologize.

    LWA: Sometimes I think your kind of heavy-handed, but you were right on the mark with this one

    Best Wishes
    (Mod: I’d appreciate it if you’d let this one through, thanks)

  • It seems in USA there are now more young males living with parents than living in relationships in homes. The last time this occurred was 1880!

    ‘[KR921] Keiser Report: US Ominous New Trends’

    http://www.maxkeiser.com/2016/05/kr921-keiser-report-us-ominous-new-trends/

    Max Keiser…telling it how it is.

    Mark Austin

    That Air flow study on the video post above sounds like a perfect cover for scanning phones and seeing how they track at the 50 outlets…a real-time study right under peoples noses.

    Odourless, colourless non toxic gas…sounds pretty suss, why not name it?

    Surveillance state of affairs…perhaps.

    Cheers

    😉

  • all you trolls out there need to fuck off. you know who you are.

  • Another sign of the end of capitalism…err…or the pressure to change spots…LOL.

    ‘OECD warns Australian property prices facing ‘dramatic and destabilising’ demise’

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/property/oecd-warns-australian-property-prices-facing-dramatic-and-destabilising-demise-20160602-gpaijc.html

    A quote:

    “The sharp rise in the construction of new apartments may be the catalyst for a “dramatic and destabilising” end to the current housing boom, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development has warned.

    “Domestically, the unwinding of housing market tensions to date may presage dramatic and destabilising developments, rather than herald a soft landing,” said the OECD in its latest report.”

    Same old same old…oversupply.

    The actual report is here:

    http://www.oecd.org/eco/outlook/economic-forecast-Australia-June-2016.pdf

    A big killer…big bummer. Better get some mobile dwellings happening perhaps.

    Also:

    ‘At least 33 US cities used water testing ‘cheats’ over lead concerns.’

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/02/lead-water-testing-cheats-chicago-boston-philadelphia

    http://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/1688d3c2a4f872ee562b1e88fb17171ba8d020dc/0_0_3500_2100/master/3500.jpg?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=1802b6f2f6dbf0f79a48f3b310f89cb6

    This has big implications for mental health, and not just health. Read and weep.

    And this week was reconciliation week.

    ’25 years of reconciliation and what do we have to show for it?’

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/postcolonial-blog/2016/jun/03/25-years-of-reconciliation-and-what-do-we-have-to-show-for-it

    Also some fear mongering…

    ‘Be afraid, be very afraid: the robots are coming and they will destroy our livelihoods’

    Lot of links here.
    Cheers folks.

    🙁

  • .
    @Feed Jake

    No need to apologize. If you found his biology work interesting, then remember him for that. I don’t know what happened to the man, at first it seemed like speaking out against religious extremism was a good idea, I’m not too fond of it either the way we see it applied in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia for example, or even in certain locations in the U.S … it’s used oppressively for sure. But somewhere along the line Dawkins seems to have lost it, and it became more like mocking and poking at an angry bear with a stick, like it was now just a habit for him (and that’s when he began turning on other people too.) I think the fame might have got to him. Something weird happened there for sure. The Tao spoke of how many a man has been ruined when he became famous and then got swept up by the masses. It sort of became a gong show I think.

    And hey, the only reason I pointed out that logical fallacy was because I think we’ve all heard that one used by the climate debaters, that if you don’t like oil, then why are you using a computer … so stop complaining. I was glad to find the counter argument for that, and thought it seemed like the time to share it here. Using an oil product doesn’t negate talking about the pitfalls of using oil. It’s a classic, and someone used it on me just the other day. So now we all know not to be phased by it … using a computer or even a car doesn’t negate discussing the very real hazards of using fossil fuels in general.

    Sorry for being heavy handed. I used to get mocked here quite a bit … so one day I just said fuck it and let the wetiko flow through my veins too. Maybe the contrast can demonstrate how being nice is always just a choice and not a weakness. I know, I’m not very nice here anymore. I thought I’d pulled back slightly … but maybe not enough yet. Thanks for the reflection Jake, I do appreciate it. Fly check.

    All the best Jake.

    Now … back into the frey … lol …

    .
    @apneaman

    but that harmonizing and outright rejection of other opinions and evidence is the pattern I have picked up on.

    Yes, that was the pattern here alright, I saw it a long time ago, but just in the other direction is all. I notice you weren’t speaking out about it then, so why are you making bones about it now? I used to voice my convictions and ideas here very honestly, and people harmonized … and outright rejected my opinions … and my evidence. It was a pattern, and I picked up on it. See? Same thing, just the other way. I guess that’s what happens when people hold contrary points of view on certain issues.

    Labeling every single solitary bit of science as bunk because it’s the “white mans” is conspiracy thinking writ large.

    I don’t label science as wrong thinking because it’s bunk, or because it belongs to the white man … I label it as wrong thinking because it destroyed our world, regardless of it’s effectiveness at doing so. I don’t discredit fundamental scientism because it isn’t accurate … I discredit it because it’s dangerous, and yet nobody will put it down (even when people can see what effect it’s having.) People seem to be drunk with it, to all of our demise.

    It’s got nothing to do with skin color. My issue with the European culture is that they colonized and then exterminated every single indigenous culture that they could find in order to make themselves dominant. They are liars, and cheaters, and backstabbers … and treated the living world with the same disregard, and now have even killed it too, and all of us along with it. You bet I’m wanting to get to the bottom of this.

    If it had been the Africans who had destroyed the planet, I would be pointing my finger at them. But it wasn’t … it was the Europeans.

    A long time ago the native Americans recognized that the Europeans seemed to suffer from a sickness of mind, a mental illness. I will probably speak out about the glorification of what was actually a disease until the lights go out, lest any survivors squeeze through some fluke bottleneck and make the same mistakes. For a disease of mind that has now spread throughout the entire world because of how it can’t easily be fought back against … yes, I am making some noise about it. Not a disease of skin color … that’s racism. An infectious disease of mind … and that’s a concern for our safety and for our welfare … for all races and species. Something went horribly wrong in the European mind, and I speak up about it, because there is a lot of denial about it going on out there. And some wonder if the root of that disease isn’t even scientism it’s very self, like Satish posted about in this thread … that it slowly altered our perceptions and our attitudes about the world in a very bad way.

    Yes, I talk about it. It’s important to me to peel back the layers and take a good hard look at this before we all snuff it.

  • @smallwhiteygenitalia

    I was so stunned by Guy’s logic that Range Science is the path to becoming the foremost expert on climate and atmospheres(and not the one James Hansen so foolishly took), that I decided I don’t have the mental capacity to keep up with geniuses such as Guy and yourself, and I decided to comment here no further.

    But thanks to Guy, I’ve now seen the light, and I refuse to listen to any climate info that does not come from a Range Scientist. Guy’s revelation caused me to write a letter to NASA insisting that they put only Range Scientists in charge of Nasa’s Climate Program, and to delete all of James Hansen’s findings. I did the same with the IPCC. I also called my Congressman and insisted that only Range Scientists, due to their superior knowledge of climate related science, should be allowed to testify before Congress on climate related issues. I also wrote every major scientific journal and begged them to stop publishing papers on climate from scientists in fields inferior to Range Science, which of course, would be all of them.

    I have to admit though, that I am perplexed by the silence of the Range Science community for not insisting that they be put in charge of all climate science research–and I don’t understand why the entire Range Science community (or even one member of it) hasn’t rallied around Guy and his message. But those questions are beyond little minds like mine and best left to great thinkers such as yourself, smallwhiteygenitalia. I bid myself good riddance. “The day is yours.” @1:45:

  • Fer those uv yah usin’ windoze, fer whom Englisch ain’t a natively spoken language, y’all may find this useful.

  • @david higham
    “Seeking to understand the natural world and the processes within it,which is what science is, doesn’t preclude feelings of love,awe and reverence towards it”

    The study of the natural world is not just science

    All artists, musicians, poets, painters’, sculptors’ writers etc. have drawn their inspiration for their work, from a study of nature and things that surround them. Seeing the shades, forms, textures,colours and how they interact, the beautiful, complimentary and grotesque, but most of all seeing l the spaces in-between, the abstract. The tension and release of life and the natural world is portrayed very effectively by the arts.

    @Mark Austin. Welcome back to the squabbling songbirds. Yes, Yes lest go off grid..Shit, I forgot I am trapped

    @Robin Datta I still have the analogy of the anthills and the ants, rolling around in my head. Keeps things in perspective thanks for that

  • Jeff S,
    Re. your 10.20am post. I think that the author of the book you mention is probably confusing technophilia with science. It might be possible to include technophilia in the category of religion,if we define it as an unquestioning belief that technology will always provide a solution to whatever predicament humanity finds itself in. Many who think this have
    a poor understanding of science and its limitations.
    Science and monotheism have an irreconcilably different approach to the world. If we were to summarize it succinctly
    but still accurately,science ‘Questions and Tests’,monotheism ‘Believes
    and Obeys’.

    Henry Holt,
    I don’t have any argument with your comment. I wasn’t claiming that Scientists are the only people to appreciate and study the natural world. All the best to you and Jeff.

    https://www.amazon.com/Techno-Fix-Technology-Wont-Save-Environment/dp/0865717044/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1464746808&sr=1-1&keywords=technofix

  • @ David Higham

    No worries David..Just Checking!
    your photos(you posted here) of the Lake Tinnaroo and surrounding areas were awe inspiring and works of Art.Who would not be inspired in that area?,i know i was when i lived in the Far North Queensland tropics.All the Best to you too

  • Comments like this usually bring anti-evidence climate-change-denying trolls out of their caves:

    ‘The government says: ‘New Zealand’s current target is to reduce greenhouse gas emissions to 5 per cent below 1990 levels by 2020. The new post-2020 target is equivalent to 11 per cent below 1990 levels by 2030.’

    http://www.mfe.govt.nz/climate-change/reducing-greenhouse-gas-emissions/

    However, government transport policies and government economic growth policies (amongst other things) are geared to promoting increased dependence on fossil fuels and increased emissions, and are therefore in direct conflict with supposed environmental policy: ‘Today we got data on the sales of used imports and they also are running at a strong rate. At 12,567 in May 2016, that is +12% above the level of May 2014.’

    There is every reason to believe that the farcical situation of having mutually exclusive (contradictory) polices promoted will continue both in NZ and overseas, and that the rapid rise in atmospheric CO2, along with the planetary meltdown that is a natural consequence of contradictory emission polices, will continue to accelerate.

    Daily CO2

    June 1, 2016: 407.08 ppm

    June 1, 2015: 403.12 ppm

    Up 3.96 ppm (versus 2005-2014 average of 2.11 ppm)

    Indeed, very disturbing trends have been revealed over the past 6 months, not only of record high CO2 levels but also the normal seasonal peak being passed with little [downward] change in levels. :

    http://scripps.ucsd.edu/programs/keelingcurve/wp-content/plugins/sio-bl

    The unprecedented meltdown of the Arctic region which is a consequence of elevated atmospheric CO2 ontinues, of course, and has recently been accompanied by unprecedented flooding in Europe, increased torrential rain episodes being another consequence of elevated atmospheric CO2..

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-shuts-louvre-museum….

    What we have been witnessing is a mere taste if what is to come, of course, as industrial nations slowly ‘commit suicide’ via fossil fuel addition.’

  • LWA said: “Yes, I talk about it. It’s important to me to peel back the layers and take a good hard look at this before we all snuff it.”

    I say too!

    Thanks for that tip on “Tu quoque”. I’ve come across that argument many times. Never knew it was a thing. I’d end up giving a counter-example like, “so, you’d never criticize language because you’d be using language to do that.”

    ====

    There’s Science and there’s Scientism.
    There’s esoteric religion and there’s organized religion.

    ====

    Very interesting to see the references to the rise of automation and consequent job loss (thanks, OzMan). Jeff, I have David Noble’s “America by Design”. Haven’t come across “The Religion of Technology” until you mentioned it. Going by the list of his books, Noble has written a lot on the impacts of automation too.

    It’s all connected – Capitalism, Scientism, Technology, artificial intelligence, machine learning, robotics, automation, the hollowing out of the middle class, the death of nature…

  • Finally got to listen to the interview at the top of the page.

    A good one Guy.

    On patriarchy. Derrik’s question on how to undermine the patriarchal system?

    Do the opposite. Consult, share, and be honest when the negative adaptations arise. Learnt this the hard way.

    Also, reject the power offered for free.

    Don’t own a car. Rely on what you can actually do, or can presently learn, and not on big reputations among male or hierarchical peers.

    If you ho this, as I have for well over 35 years you will discover not a lot of social advantage, but those who care about you, and u care about-those relations are a strong loyalty.

    But, I agree with Guy that talking about it is a good start.

    My view is we could not have avoided this permutation, these many people, because overpopulation is a response to the recognition by the adolescent to fear of mortality.

    The next phase will be the most important.

    As in most native cultures, the adult reconnects to the energies in the universe and the body, and successfully receives energy from an infinite source.
    If one looks at how energy is thought of and also used, it is all based on the conception of the human as separate from the infinity energy.
    The child uses the mother, the village and the local culture as the bridge. The adolescent gets to feel invulnerable and invincible, by rejecting the dependence of the child. Adults help to transition adolescents to adulthood, but this sick materialist culture is an extended adolescent phase, so that consumption, fear and doubt prevail. Most transitions in hunter gatherer culture involve tests, and pain. For young women it may be marriage, and leaving one’s country(local area), as well as childbirth. For young men t is physical scarification, circumcision, being shit scared and bonding as a group.Obviously there is variability.
    But the adolescent stage is intentionally kept short, 3-4 weeks, not 2000 years.
    We are in the position of being scared of climate change, afraid we are species-mortal, and consuming ancestral energy locked in the Earth, and rooting as much as possible, (with births).

    The mortal threat has woken some, who have tried to initiate themselves beyond childhood and adolescence, then talk it out with others.

    Good luck with that folks.

    Cheers
    😉

  • if one wasn’t a troll when they arrived, they will be by the time they leave…

  • i must say, all of you geniuses are in good company. me.

  • chopping water and dropping wood. right robin!

  • @oldgrowthforest

    All the information I mention is readily available online or at your local library. I’m not here to publish an online book for you to fuel your propensity to argue just for arguments sake. You question other peoples opinions and yet offer no conclusions of your own which can be examined and vetted.

    If you lack the ability to find knowledgeable debates against Religion, by Atheists who have more than considerable knowledge of the subject, look up debates by Christopher Hitchens.

  • david higham Says:
    June 2nd, 2016 at 11:54 pm
    Jeff S,

    “Re. your 10.20am post. I think that the author of the book you mention is probably confusing technophilia with science. It might be possible to include technophilia in the category of religion,if we define it as an unquestioning belief that technology will always provide a solution to whatever predicament humanity finds itself in. Many who think this have
    a poor understanding of science and its limitations.
    Science and monotheism have an irreconcilably different approach to the world. If we were to summarize it succinctly
    but still accurately,science ‘Questions and Tests’,monotheism ‘Believes
    and Obeys’.”

    David Noble was (he’s deceased) a history of science professor. He has written a lot about science, including “Progress Without People” about automation. Your characterization of what he wrote without ever reading it is quite stunning. In his book about religion he does a great job showing how monotheism and its attitudes have continually surfaced in the very ideology of scientific progress which dominates current thinking.
    Something else needs to be brought forth, namely that the dominant paradigm in science for the last several centuries or so as been mechanistic materialism, a paradigm which uses the machine or mechanism as its metaphor to explain physical phenomena. Thus everything is reduced to machine like behavior, when in fact machines are totally predictable and act linearly, whereas physical phenomena are much more like organisms, with a high degree of feedback, non-linearity and unpredictability. Typical of this is perspectives which see the global climate system as a weather machine, when in fact it is anything but that. Genetic engineering is structured upon the totally erroneous notion that humans are like computers and DNA is like the programming. See this intro to Thomas Lewis’s book Brace for Impact about the machine metaphor, http://www.braceforimpact.thomasalewis.com/Intro.html
    And see Barry Commoner’s article from February 2002 at Common Dreams on the Spurious Foundations of Genetic Engineering, also in Harper’s February ’02, leaving out the URL since it comes up very fast upon search.
    An alternative science paradigm which has competed with mechanistic materialism throughout, and which is being articulated more and more, is process philosophy. Look around and find stuff about it.

  • @ Elroy Hubbard

    I have been wondering for months–what exactly is your point? I don’t have an advanced degree, but have devoted my life to study. I think I understand this climate stuff pretty well, as I’ve been reading both professional and popular articles on it for many years. Regardless of ones official certifications, learning and having a competent working knowledge of a subject is open to anyone with intellectual curiosity and some degree of intelligence. I think Guy might be mostly right about what is coming–he has laid out his argument at length. You can agree with him or not, but you should be countering his argument with as much detail, precision, and data as he uses. It does not matter whether a person’s degree is in Range Science, Flower Arranging, or if a person has no degree at all; you can have your own opinion, but you can’t have your own facts.

    I think that the powers that be are going to try climate modification. Guy presents his case that it won’t work, and will damage the ozone layer. I have seen other evidence that it might work, at least for a while (we’ll still have the oceans to worry about). I think that it’s only a matter of (a short) time before we’ll find out. I also doubt that all humans will go extinct in the near term; technology can keep a certain population alive. Also, I think the nuclear power plant problem may be dealt with once martial law is instituted. So you see I have a differing view than Guy, and if pressed, I could come up with data supporting my differences of opinion. But I do agree with Guy that the climate-change problem has been grossly underestimated, and despite the exact details and dates, humanity is in for a rough time for the foreseeable future. It has already begun. So, Elroy, exactly what is your point?

    Best Wishes

  • @Mike D. I don’t think that telling me to read Hitchens explains your own use of the “Reptile Brain” (sic). For the record, it is “reptilian brain.” I think “reptile brains” are what reptiles have. I’m not sure you actually understand the concept, and I’m not impressed with your argument that I should review the same views you have considered so I can understand all your great knowledge of the subject. That’s your job. You’re the one bringing up the idea that human behavior is dictated by the “Reptile Brain.” (snark, snark) Offer some evidence for YOUR position.

    I’ve done my own research, from a more scientific perspective, and from other perspectives as well. I have a degree in psychology and a great deal of more advanced knowledge from my work in behavioral health. I did my senior research project on consciousness, which is what you are talking about – brain matter, human emotions, human awareness, human behaviors, etc. I researched the work of people who are far more knowledgeable about this issue of brain functions and human response to brain functions than Christopher Hitchens could be, given his field of journalism, oratory, and essay writing. I have also studied quite extensively many other subjects associated with this particular subject since I was quite young. I quite watching television in 1969 right at my 16th birthday. I spent my entire life, until the past four years, reading and learning informally, and most of it was about human awareness.

    Nasty attitude and buzzwords, like more buzzword bingo, is what you offer. People throw out names and ideas of others that they believe are impressive and authoritative, and shout words like “evolution” and other weighty scientific terms that are supposed to be cosmic, universal Truth, even some terms they make up or get wrong, like you did. Then, when you are asked to discuss YOUR views (apparently entirely adopted from others), you don’t. I suspect you can’t, is what is really going on here.

    @Feed Jake: Thanks for taking the time to really think about my comments. As I wrote, I took the time to look into Dawkins. I was quite surprised by how weak and false so many of his statements were. I had heard so much about him as this great atheist intellectual, that I expected much more than I saw in the short clips of video and statements of his that I did review. Like I wrote, he based his argument on a statement that was patently and provably false, and he displayed an unforgivable ignorance of a subject he was attempting to debunk. His own argument was complete nonsense. I’m not interested in documenting evidence for my statements here, but I could if I had to. I’m sure it’s all still on the internet somewhere.

    I’m not acquainted with Dawkins’ sexism and misogyny, thankfully.

    I agree with LWA, and the European culture has NEVER stopped being religious about everything. They just changed gods, books, and high priests. This is why everyone trots out all these meaningless, general, great-sounding quips from famous people in the culture. Fundamentalists do the same with scripture, lifting small insights within very limited context, and extrapolating and applying the values as some kind of answer to everything. It’s because the culture is humanistic (more than anything), materialistic, and mechanistic. Humanism, materialism, and a mechanical view of biology don’t require a god, nor do they not need a god. That’s why humanism, materialism, and mechanistic views work equally well when you’re using the Bible or Darwin to argue more abstract concepts like virtue that are associated with observations of human behaviors.

    Science doesn’t do anything. Science is a method for assessing reality, and it is not the only method. I agree with Henry, and the arts and other human endeavors reflect other ways of observing reality that are also valid, and truth isn’t limited to science anymore than it was to the Bible when the (cough, cough) enlightenment occurred. Europeans just changed systems for doing the same things they had always done, which was create a hierarchical society in a destructive and cruel culture that separates itself from nature at every turn, one way or another.

    Science for some people, is very much a religion. It’s the material form for Truth (like the Bible used to be), and most people who relate to science in this religious way know about as much about real science as most Christians actually know about Christianity, which is not really all that much. I like science just fine, and I certainly do rely upon it, in particular in medicine. Oh, honey, if I’m in pain, I get myself to the certified doctor – medical care that has been generously provided by my native ancestors because we shared in our cultures. I’m not religious about science, however. The doctor treats the symptom, but my body heals itself, and that’s not science that it does that. Reality is beyond the ability of humans to capture in words, in ideas, in science or religion.

  • I think this name fits best. Tiny mind, freakishly small genitalia. @ robin, Yeah, its me and I type with one finger. And my grammar, sentence structure, compositional syntax, and spelling suck. And you know when a woman, especially brown woman points out in public my intellectual deficiencies I am so insecure I might go into an awful, raging misogynist rant because after all I am “tiny whitey”. And how did you know I was born in texas where knuckle dragging, no, that’s wrong because we wouldn’t want to disparage beautiful bonobos by comparing them to some southern nightmare of a white male, lets say the horrific pinnacle of misogynist, Abrahamic monotheistic, is there any other, ragingly racist, anti-science, anti-intellectual, wife beating, incest induced genetically drifting trailer trash. Maybe that is why I see Patriarchy better than most because the south is the acute culmination and ugliest of honest caricature of all that it means to be “tiny whitey”.

  • Obviously, I totally agree with Jeff S., too. Also, reality isn’t only observed, it is experienced, which is the nonsense of scientism. There is something entirely insane about a way of seeing that has to always be elevated to a cosmic, universal, eternal level. This mechanistic, materialistic culture wants to eradicate subjectivity. That’s funny, because every living creature is a subject, and does not experience or perceive from a universal, omniscient point of reference. The fact that all living subjects are being exterminated is a consequence of the lack-of-subjectivity world we live in, the all-knowing, falsely objective worldview promoted by the culture. This culture is always striving for an omniscient objectivity they cannot attain, and values and beliefs derived from measurements are promoted as “objective reality.” You can see it in our language in many, many ways, and it concerns how we see power. It’s in the way we name everything that we think is important after humans, like Newton’s Law of Gravity. I think gravity exists even if Newton never had, and it’s the universe’s, as in natural universe, law of gravity.

    There is an artificial and symbolic alternate reality that the European-American culture creates in its efforts to master and manipulate the material world around them. It’s based in an entirely unconscious conviction that the world and its living creatures are not good enough as they are, and it all needs to be made better in keeping with a particular human-created vision of what the world should be, and the changes are always motivated by noble motives. This exists in both western science and the dominant religions in western psychosis. It’s at the core of how entirely different rationalizations can be used to justify the exact same human behaviors, and how both western science and western religion have been an extinction event everywhere this culture goes.

  • Daily CO2

    June 2, 2016: 407.37 ppm

    June 2, 2015: 402.88 ppm

    Up 4.49 ppm (versus 2005-2014 average of 2.11 ppm per annum)

    ………………………………………………………..

    Charles Hugh Smith suggests financial-economic collapse over 2016-2019, corresponding with the timeframe many of us have believed likely.

    ‘Thursday, June 02, 2016

    The Structure of Collapse: 2016-2019

    Leaders face a no-win dilemma: any change of course will crash the system, but maintaining the current course will also crash the system.

    The end-state of unsustainable systems is collapse. Though collapse may appear to be sudden and chaotic, we can discern key structures that guide the processes of collapse.

    Though the subject is complex enough to justify an entire shelf of books, these six dynamics are sufficient to illuminate the inevitable collapse of the status quo.

    1. Doing more of what has failed spectacularly. The leaders of the status quo inevitably keep doing more of what worked in the past, even when it no longer works…..’

    http://charleshughsmith.blogspot.co.nz/2016/06/the-structure-of-collapse-2016-2019.html

  • Jeff S,
    Please read your 10.20,am post. You gave the name of the book as
    ‘The Religion of Science’. I posted my comment without checking out the
    book,and stated that he was probably confusing technophilia with science.
    I have just checked out the book,and the actual name of the book is
    ‘The Religion of Technology’. No professor of the history of science would state that science is a religion,or confuse science with technology,but you managed it.


  • “I am 15 years old and I just organized a memorial,” she said to her mother, Kathleen, when she got home.

    Implicit in her weary statement of fact was the underlying question: Why? How could it be that they all lived in a place that inspired jealousy from out-of-towners, where the coolest gadgets and ideas come from, where the optimism is boundless, and where, as Kathleen put it to me somewhat sardonically, “people are working on inventions that will slow aging and probably one day stop death”—and yet also a place where a junior in high school is closely familiar with the funerals of other teens?

    After Harry Lee died, Kathleen attended a school meeting full of fretful parents. Two of them, she recalled, had angrily demanded, “Where’s the data?,” meaning demographic information about the kids who’d died. Kathleen stood up and said, “First of all, you are talking about my son. And second, they are not robots. You can’t break them open and find the broken circuit. It’s so complicated. There is so much you don’t know, and you are never going to know … We are not going to have ‘the answer.’ We will just do our best.”

    Where’s the data? That’s the clarion call of the machine age – an impersonal plea that betrays the grim helpless condition of its participants, people who have become used to hearing it from the experts, the authorities, the ones higher up on the pyramid of power.

    Like OGF said, “This culture is always striving for an omniscient objectivity they cannot attain, and values and beliefs derived from measurements are promoted as “objective reality.” You can see it in our language in many, many ways, and it concerns how we see power.”


    You’d have to be blind or stupid not to see a pattern, and Palo Alto’s parents were neither. Seventy-four percent of Gunn students have at least one parent with a graduate degree. They’d moved their families to that school district because they know how to do their research. Last year, Gunn was ranked by U.S. News & World Report as one of the nation’s top five STEM schools. Every year, about 20 of its seniors get into Stanford, which is just two miles away, and a quarter are offered spots at University of California schools, which are notoriously competitive these days.

    Turns out holding a graduate degree doesn’t prove much in the way of maturity or wisdom. The Palo Alto parents, like most affluent modern civilized people the world over, have bought into a certain perverted system and they are trying their best to push their children into the same system. These are the perpetuating agents of a sick system, whether or not they see it that way, whether or not they are aware of their implicit participation in Empire, whether or not they are even aware of the existence of Empire all around them, one in which they have been swimming since they were students and aspiring professionals themselves… largely urban, largely self-labeled progressive/liberal, largely statist, frequently techno-optimistic, often given to the religion of Scientism.

    I believe this particular segment of the upper crust of the pyramid has played a major role in shaping the course of the last hundred or so years, the time period in which multiple opportunities for reexamining the path that humanity has been on have been recklessly squandered. These are the professionals that Jeff Schmidt profiles in his outstanding study of the class he found himself in: Disciplined Minds and the over-achieving first and second generation Asian immigrants that Darrell Y. Hamamoto speaks of in Servitors of Empire

    They include such practitioners of values-free Science who have flooded the world with some 80,000 artificial chemicals, given us the “wonders” of genetic engineering, designed and built the malignant neoplasms euphemistically called cities, dammed the rivers, dynamited mountain tops, littered geosynchronous and low earth orbits with space debris and delivered the planet such extinction level events as Fukushima.

    We couldn’t have made it here without the work of our Scientist friends, the ones who view Science and Technology as a mere kitchen knife, to be put to use for either good or bad depending on who’s using it. Take up the oath of values-free Science and I’d never need to look into downstream impacts. That’s someone else’s job, above my pay grade. In any case, our overlords are way smarter than us, so why worry? These are the people who are happy to talk about economies of scale and efficiencies, synergies and singularities even as they fail to see how their work results in massive centralization of power, loss of local autonomy, and finally a devastated planet. They look away from pictures of the Great Pacific garbage patch, they know not what tar sands mining looks like, or fracking, or felling of the Amazon. No, the excavators and tree cutting machines that mechanical engineers design don’t end up in the Amazon and other pristine forest lands. No, the highways and dams that Civil engineers design and build don’t displace native peoples and submerge millions of acres of wilderness and destroy habitat for thousands of species. Toss out the precautionary principle, outsource critical thinking and prepare the next generation to become Scientists and computer engineers who would design even better Earth-killing machines.

    Without the tireless work of Scientists and their close relatives who put that Science to use for the sake of capital, the chemical, mechanical, civil, mining and computer engineers, the geneticists, the micro-biologists, and the chemists, civilization wouldn’t have achieved the destruction of its host planet.

    A few high school suicides or the genocide of an entire culture haven’t stopped the march of the cancer called civilization. Because, where’s the data?

    The above excerpts are from an article in The Atlantic: The Silicon Valley Suicides

  • @oldgrowthforest

    I only mentioned Christopher Hitchens in regard to debates by a known Atheist who was extremely well versed on the history of world religions. How you convoluted Hitchens with Neuroscience and the “Reptile/Reptilian Brain, I haven’t a clue (the short paragraphs, were separated…).
    You did ask at some point if I listened to Guy’s interview with Jensen. Yes, I did. The subjects discussed was essentially in the realm of Sociology (is that a buzzword too?). Guy and Mr. Jensen were in a since, lamenting, as what they discussed is not something that’s going to change any time soon. A “predicament” out of our control. Yes, I’ve had college level Sociology as well as Psychology (my Psych Professor thought Football was a “Sex Ritual”, I disagreed then and now, its “Ritual Combat”) with my Engineering Degree. I did continue to watch TV after 69′, contrary to what you may believe, it does sometimes offer content of value.

    Do you think we do what we do exclusively due to “Nurture”, and that “Nature” has no part to play? Please provide links which reflect you personal view. How many links would you like me to provide concerning Brain Evolution? Our interest here, or a least a topic of discussion, among others, seems to be how did we end up in the entire “global predicament” we are in. Was it Nature/Nurture?

    Snarky? Maybe, but in the “Snark Tank” I sense you’re in there too…

  • I must admit I am a big fan of science. It is a method of dispassionate discovery grounded in reason that is designed to reach tentative conclusions based on observable data collected in a uniform and disciplined way. Is it perfect? Obviously not. Have people exploited it for evil purposes? In the immortal words of Sarah Palin- “You betchya!” But all this shitting on science is pretty ridiculous. Science has many positive uses. It is, after all, what provides us with all that data about climate change that everyone here loves to cite. Science is the reason we know… well, where do I begin?? LOTS OF THINGS. Are there things that cannot be measured with the scientific method? Of course. But it can be a wonderful tool for understanding our shared reality.

  • But was science used to destroy every living thing on earth as rapidly and mindlessly as possible, You betchya. Was science ever even necessary for a beautiful preindustrial non-carcinogenic peaceful profoundly beautiful existence with 5 billion passenger pidgeons, salmon so thick you could here them coming for miles. Let’s see science never improved anyone’s life over all compared to nez perce society unless of course you are really into creepy plastic crap and carcinogenic chemicals plus cars computers nuclear weapons chainsaws pistons gears ad infinitum ad nauseum. I mean making a case for science is the equivalent of making a case for sociopathic behavior. And I was once referred to as the psychopath in the room. The most astounding and horrifying thing is how all of you sciencephiliacs cling to your religion with the same tenacity that isis clings to theirs. Especially in the face of science, solely science and its attendant sociopaths complete murder of every living thing in the known fucking universe.

  • @ Mike D.

    The general consensus among Evolutionary Biologists (Stephen Gould), and
    Evolutionary Psychologists (Steven Pinker) is that the development of our “personality” is roughly half genetic and half environmental.

    As far as brain genetics goes, genes which affect brain development and function are constantly discovered. Examples are the “warrior gene,” which is implicated in sociopathy, and the “wanderer gene,” which is involved in ADHD. The literature can alert you to many more.

    Best Wishes

  • david higham Says:
    June 3rd, 2016 at 2:51 pm

    “Jeff S,
    Please read your 10.20,am post. You gave the name of the book as
    ‘The Religion of Science’. I posted my comment without checking out the
    book,and stated that he was probably confusing technophilia with science.
    I have just checked out the book,and the actual name of the book is
    ‘The Religion of Technology’. No professor of the history of science would state that science is a religion,or confuse science with technology,but you managed it.”

    I did get the book’s name wrong, Satish pointed that out earlier, but the subject of it is not technology as a religion, but the way religion, particularly the tradition of desert monotheism (Christianity, Judaism, Islam), has shaped attitudes expressed by proponents of technology, e.g. mastery of nature and the outright transcendence of it. But the rest of my comment was about the paradigm which has dominated science itself over the last several centuries, not simply technology.

    _________________________
    Satish Musunuru Says:
    June 3rd, 2016 at 3:23 pm

    “Turns out holding a graduate degree doesn’t prove much in the way of maturity or wisdom. The Palo Alto parents, like most affluent modern civilized people the world over, have bought into a certain perverted system and they are trying their best to push their children into the same system. These are the perpetuating agents of a sick system, whether or not they see it that way, whether or not they are aware of their implicit participation in Empire, whether or not they are even aware of the existence of Empire all around them, one in which they have been swimming since they were students and aspiring professionals themselves… largely urban, largely self-labeled progressive/liberal, largely statist, frequently techno-optimistic, often given to the religion of Scientism.

    I believe this particular segment of the upper crust of the pyramid has played a major role in shaping the course of the last hundred or so years, the time period in which multiple opportunities for reexamining the path that humanity has been on have been recklessly squandered. These are the professionals that Jeff Schmidt profiles in his outstanding study of the class he found himself in: Disciplined Minds and the over-achieving first and second generation Asian immigrants that Darrell Y. Hamamoto speaks of in Servitors of Empire

    They include such practitioners of values-free Science who have flooded the world with some 80,000 artificial chemicals, given us the “wonders” of genetic engineering, designed and built the malignant neoplasms euphemistically called cities, dammed the rivers, dynamited mountain tops, littered geosynchronous and low earth orbits with space debris and delivered the planet such extinction level events as Fukushima.

    We couldn’t have made it here without the work of our Scientist friends, the ones who view Science and Technology as a mere kitchen knife, to be put to use for either good or bad depending on who’s using it. Take up the oath of values-free Science and I’d never need to look into downstream impacts. That’s someone else’s job, above my pay grade. In any case, our overlords are way smarter than us, so why worry? These are the people who are happy to talk about economies of scale and efficiencies, synergies and singularities even as they fail to see how their work results in massive centralization of power, loss of local autonomy, and finally a devastated planet. They look away from pictures of the Great Pacific garbage patch, they know not what tar sands mining looks like, or fracking, or felling of the Amazon. No, the excavators and tree cutting machines that mechanical engineers design don’t end up in the Amazon and other pristine forest lands. No, the highways and dams that Civil engineers design and build don’t displace native peoples and submerge millions of acres of wilderness and destroy habitat for thousands of species. Toss out the precautionary principle, outsource critical thinking and prepare the next generation to become Scientists and computer engineers who would design even better Earth-killing machines.

    Without the tireless work of Scientists and their close relatives who put that Science to use for the sake of capital, the chemical, mechanical, civil, mining and computer engineers, the geneticists, the micro-biologists, and the chemists, civilization wouldn’t have achieved the destruction of its host planet.

    A few high school suicides or the genocide of an entire culture haven’t stopped the march of the cancer called civilization. Because, where’s the data?

    The above excerpts are from an article in The Atlantic: The Silicon Valley Suicides.”

    GREAT commentary!!