Q & A from Two Presentations

Big thanks to Marc Haneburght for shooting and editing the video embedded below. It resulted from two presentations in California. The first portion of the video was recorded in Chico on 5 May 2016. The remainder is based on a presentation in Sacramento on 3 May 2016.


Please note two recent changes. The comments field has been revised, along with the color scheme.

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As always, the schedule of topics for forthcoming episodes of the radio show is posted beneath the tab at the top of the page titled, “Radio Archive and Recent Video.” Please help us out, especially with episodes that focus on criticism of climate scientists and activists by sending your contributions to Mike at mikeyjonsliwa@gmail.com. The next of these shows is scheduled for 7 June 2016. We will be joined by independent journalist Cory Morningstar.

McPherson’s latest book is available in audio, and can be purchased here. Ms. Ladybug and Mr. Honeybee: A Love Story at the End of Time is intended for ages 11 and up.

Comments 155

  • If you just want the audio (much smaller)

    youtube-dl –extract-audio –prefer-ffmpeg –audio-format mp3 –audio-quality 0 –embed-thumbnail “http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFpot2Em8hE”

    works. Unless you added a boat load of foss software to you windows, you will need linux or bsd.

  • ms. deadbug and mr.dead bee :a tale of domestic violence at the end of time…guy, do you want to sell some books or not?

  • .
    Thanks for the Q&A video Guy, I enjoyed it a lot. The Q&A’s are my personal favorites, because they providing insights for me into the sociological and psychological interactions between your work and the people being exposed to your presentations. I particularly liked the part where you clearly distinguish the difference between religious zealotry and mere philosophical/sociological/psychological ‘curiosity and inquiry.’

    As an atheist since birth, and one who’s had the good fortune of never being indoctrinated into any religious order ever, the straw men arguments presented by some of your commenters here do get a little rich sometimes. Thanks for saying what you did in the video. Ever the teacher, and a smart one at that.

    I also liked what you had to say about the intelligences beyond just those surrounding linguistics and math. Forget about skin color, humans even argue and fight about who’s thought processes are the most ‘white and delightsome.’

    Cheers Guy.

  • Why, Bless You for those comments LWA!

    Best Wishes

  • Guy, I love this video. I’m so happy you are doing this work and that it’s there for people. Thank you so much for your ability to see truth, and your courage in speaking it. Some of us have had to live with some of those truths for a long time, and it means so much to us to hear you give voice to them. I, too, liked the information about other types of intelligence that are rejected in psycho-world. I’m highly kinesthetic, and it has long been a frustration to me that only justified, rationalized, intellectualized understanding is considered “intelligent.”

  • How can I life of excellence be achieved by people who are totally dependent on the complete annihilation of all living beings on earth? Or is this just the ridiculous musings of a troll,misogynist,do nothing loud mouth one who wears the lotion moron of a white male. And I assure you beyond any historical doubt that being white male is the most heinous of all prior labelling by the enlightened crowd at NBL.

  • Why, Bless You too, Steve for your totally incoherent comment!

    Best Wishes

  • What Guy does..

  • China’s one child policy is officially credited with preventing 400 million births and keeping China’s population down to its current 1.3 billion. And since those 400 million would now be in their parenting years, we can add about 800 million future births prevented. So, the world has 1.2 billion fewer people because of that policy. If you think population is a big part of the problem, it’s hard to see that as insignificant.

    If the policy had been instituted globally and maintained, the world be approaching a stable population at around 5 billion, rather than the present 7.4 billion headed towards 10 billion or more. CO2 release would still have gone up due to urbanization, but would probably be at half the present rate. Actually, urbanization and prosperity, along with certain attitudes towards women effectively reduces the birth rate, and so even under our unplanned capitalist transformation of society, population will eventually stabilize, only it will be at higher and more environmentally destructive level.

  • Let me see If I can Possibly be more coherent. How can all the white males that listen to guy ever hope to be living a life of excellence while their very EXISTENCE depends on the murder and rank exploitation of the non-human/ brown human beings of this earth? Let me spell it out or should I just get my crayolas out. Your food,home,computers,cars depend on the burning of fossil fuels directly tied to global warming,directly tied to starving polar bears,acidified oceans,tar sands annihilation,palm oil rainforest destruction, old growth clearcuts, I cannot believe that what I am saying some find incoherent. I am really not saying anything much different than what Guy is saying. Is Guy incoherent also?????

  • Some (temporary and conditional) good news for honeybees, if true:

    The Thermosolar Hive: eradicates mites that kill honeybee populations without chemicals.

    I’m guessing the honeybees in the wild are just screwed though.

    I’m also guessing that as global average temperatures rise, the interior heat of the Thermosolar Hive will rise as well, killing not just the mites but the honeybees as well.

    Still, if this product is as advertised, some honeybee populations will get to live a little bit longer. The old Star Trek fan in me is kind of tickled by an actual working non-chemical, non-poisonous (albeit temporary) solution.

  • Planted some seaberries today. They came wrapped, with pieces of scrap paper covering the surface of the soil. The scraps said stuff about “my nakedness”, gods and goddesses, and “Lo!” something or other.

    They were pages from Nietzche’s “Beyond Good and Evil”!

    An amazing message from the deities, don’t you think? (wink)

    …people now rave everywhere, even under the guise of science, about coming conditions of society in which “the exploiting character” is to be absent—that sounds to my ears as if they promised to invent a mode of life which should refrain from all organic functions. “Exploitation” does not belong to a depraved, or imperfect and primitive society it belongs to the nature of the living being as a primary organic function, it is a consequence of the intrinsic Will to Power, which is precisely the Will to Life—Granting that as a theory this is a novelty—as a reality it is the FUNDAMENTAL FACT of all history let us be so far honest towards ourselves!

  • Great presentation; thanks for filming, Mark. The hardest part for me, today, is my grand-daughter graduating from Univ. of HI at Manoa; and me, thinking of her future on this planet to myself. She says she learned of climate change a number of years ago. I send doom and gloom via Facebook, while my daughter videos strength, love, and faith in oneself will open doors to everything you want. My son used to share fun and comments about everything on Facebook; now, he doesn’t write at all (maybe he wishes I were not his Friend on Facebook and I’m his embarrassment?). It’s a lot easier to forward blogs, but not many want to discuss it. For the younger generation, I’m not getting much feedback what this does to their psyche, even from my own family. My son’s only comment to me about the whole thing was, “we’re all going to die, anyway.”

  • finally, i was unquestionably beyond any reasonable shadow of a reasonable doubt and i gazed back at all the fragile 0’s and 1’s from the other end of 17000 light years. i saw them slipping and sliding around in their alphabet soup, tickling each other with their little cilia…poor darlings…they didn’t have long.

  • A recent paper by the biologist Janis L Dickinson, published in the journal Ecology and Society, proposes that constant news and discussion about global warming makes it difficult for people to repress thoughts of death, and that they might respond to the terrifying prospect of climate breakdown in ways that strengthen their character armour but diminish our chances of survival. There is already experimental evidence suggesting that some people respond to reminders of death by increasing consumption. Dickinson proposes that growing evidence of climate change might boost this tendency, as well as raising antagonism towards scientists and environmentalists. Our message, after all, presents a lethal threat to the central immortality project of Western society: perpetual economic growth, supported by an ideology of entitlement and exceptionalism.” (The Warming Science Commentariat – 4)

  • The latest value: 11,371,124 km2(May 13, 2016)

    Increasing divergence from the norm and from 2012 at the moment:


  • @Lidia

    ” An amazing message from the deities, don’t you think? (wink)

    … people now rave everywhere, even under the guise of science, about coming conditions of society in which “the exploiting character” is to be absent—that sounds to my ears as if they promised to invent a mode of life which should refrain from all organic functions. “Exploitation” does not belong to a depraved, or imperfect and primitive society it belongs to the nature of the living being as a primary organic function, it is a consequence of the intrinsic Will to Power, which is precisely the Will to Life—Granting that as a theory this is a novelty—as a reality it is the FUNDAMENTAL FACT of all history let us be so far honest towards ourselves!

    I always gave a shit about funny “power”, I have no “will for power” and I am glad about that, because, the more power one has, the more responsibility one has too.

    You need to read the german philosopher Nietzsche in historical context and in context of his personal biography. He was rejected by his family and by german authorities all his life, he lived the life of someone, who dreamed of “Dionysian, natural power”, but he never lived a dionysian life, instead, he lived the life of a stay-at-home most of his overly intellectual life. And later, the Nazis abused his philosophical writings and abused it for their ugly propaganda, especially the socalled “will to power” and the “Übermensch”.

  • The questions are difficult to hear.

    Maybe repeating the question would alleviate that problem (or a mike for the questioners).

    Anyway, the answers presented an interesting and helpful narrative.

    I sill do not get why the understanding that we are being murdered on a mass scale is never spoken.

    “We are not being mass murdered!” has got to go during the enlightenment process.

  • @Lidia

    Nietzsche was a victim of the extremely sick and stiff buorgeoise in his historical timeframe, just like Crowley:

    Nietzsche sat in his study room most of his life, compensating the lack of a real life (“dionysian” life in his terms) with a life purely in his intellectual head, in his intellectual phantasy. He was loving Salome, but he never LIVED that love^^ And Crowley, also a victim of the extremely sick and stiff buorgeoise in his timeframe, he headed for that “dionysian life” too, but he, different from Nietzsche, came out the other extreme.

    Nevertheless, I respect both. But they are human beings, each with his very own human restrictions, they are no “deities” (to quote your comment).

  • Sorry, small addition to my last comment:

    Nietzsche loved LOU Salome, but he never lived that love.

  • gee, i wonder how much the syphilis affected his reasoning. he loved somebody, that’s for sure.

  • Pick up the Pieces??

  • Thanks for the video Guy,it was really from your guts, heartfelt. Great to watch your progress as you move through, strip the onion back to the core layer by layer,i respect and admire your honesty and sincerity,you are an open book it helps me a lot.All the best for the tour.

  • I’d like some evidence that Nietzsche actually knew “ALL” history. That he knew ALL the history of all the people of the world at all times, in order to be able to make such a statement. And second, I’d quibble about his application of the word “exploitation” in that context.

    I won’t even go into the questionable assertions and applications of Will to Power or Will to Life and their relationship with the “organic,” although the whole thing sounds quite impressive and erudite.

    I know I will never be shown evidence that Nietzsche was actually qualified to make that statement, but it is illustrative of the type of unspoken god-like omniscience that is required to be considered “intelliegent” in Euro-centric cultures. It’s a cultural model of intelligence that requires a universal, religious-level of understanding that is beyond the ability of any human being. I have no doubt that Nietzsche ended up in a madhouse. That lack of context combined with seemingly omniscient beliefs about all things everywhere at all times makes people crazy, because it’s a crazy way to think. It’s everywhere around us to be seen.

  • LWA,

    I’ll see your double-necked string instrument (masterfully played by SJ) and raise you one regulation-sized Red Army Choir, fronted by some really wacky guys.

    If anyone here has recommendations on specific books about permaculture, feel encouraged to recommend them in the previous thread (so you do not waste a precious post).
    Starting late maybe but still looking ahead (to something).
    Thanks for any suggestions.

  • Yeah, it’s all fun and games until they start into “Midnight Train to Georgia’, the free ride you don’t come back from…

    This is dedicated to Prof. Lisa Randall and Elon Musk, for completely different reasons.

  • One of the highlights for me is the Q & A’s.
    I will be organising Guy’s November NZ speaking tour.
    Reach out to me if you want to be involved.
    I’m on Facebook or email me at kevin@iconicproperties.co.nz

  • Are all lectures and associated Q&A sessions archived? I’d love to turn people on to the Berkeley lecture (5/7/16).

  • “Are all lectures and associated Q&A sessions archived? I’d love to turn people on to the Berkeley lecture (5/7/16).”

    Marc indicated that they will be coming. Hopefully not like the Energizer Bunny with batteries reversed… 😛

  • An improper absence of grief:

    On August 23rd, 1973 two machine-gun carrying criminals entered a bank in Stockholm, Sweden. Blasting their guns, one prison escapee named Jan-Erik Olsson announced to the terrified bank employees “The party has just begun!” The two bank robbers held four hostages, three women and one man, for the next 131 hours. The hostages were strapped with dynamite and held in a bank vault until finally rescued on August 28th.

    After their rescue, the hostages exhibited a shocking attitude considering they were threatened, abused, and feared for their lives for over five days. In their media interviews, it was clear that they supported their captors and actually feared law enforcement personnel who came to their rescue. The hostages had begun to feel the captors were actually protecting them from the police. One woman later became engaged to one of the criminals and another developed a legal defense fund to aid in their criminal defense fees. Clearly, the hostages had “bonded” emotionally with their captors.”

    (Counselling Resource).

    The above is a metaphor (The Authoritarianism of Climate Change).

  • Good stuff Guy, I am a musical retard, I love guitar, play every day, anguish daily about it, I’m all thumbs, got almost no rhythm and am nearly tone deaf, and yet none of that stops me. To me he guitar is magic, I have several around the house, and continue to worship them. I wish I could recognize my limitations, but no one is without denial, hope and free will. I willed these words onto this page to freely say how much I disagree with your assertions otherwise.

    Vote For Death


  • dredd, you know we all have stockholm syndrome these days…

  • nobody can be sure if they’re a kidnapper or a hostage any more…

  • @ Steve
    It’s not just white males. You have been describing the hypocrisy inherent in human life. In order to live, something else (even if it’s a plant) must die. Certainly plants are sentient on some level, maybe more than we realize, but in order to survive we must eat. The dilemma cannot be resolved. The only remedy is to try to reduce suffering in the world as best you can. It does no good to assign blame and bitch about it. Do your best as an individual, even if you know the result will be inadequate. You have been asking all this time to be taken seriously. Well, here it is. I hope you find some peace.

    Best Wishes

  • .
    @infanttyrone Thanks for getting the Led out there with me. I enjoyed those wacky guys you posted.


    I can report from Alberta that as the decades of awareness about climate edged forward, there was, over time, a definite social backlash that grew here resulting in more and more hostility toward anything environmental, and even toward the environment itself. It was subtle, but slowly it became almost like it was ok to go out and mess with nature, in a sort of angry defiance, like people were angry at nature now for trying to tell them what they could or couldn’t do. Some people wouldn’t notice such a gradual change in attitude over time, but I did. If you’re even just picking up garbage around here now, it better be for beautification reasons, and not because your one of those ‘woo woo’ people. (It’s funny how universal that term is.)

    It’s worth repeating that Scribbler noted how during the McMurray fires, it was taboo and hurtful to discuss the connections between the fire and climate change. Yet, during the Lac-Megantic rail disaster, the oil companies wasted no time co-opting the disaster to start a discussion over their agenda to get more pipelines built. That agenda was supported by the news media too during the Lac-Megantic disaster, and the discussion ensued, endlessly.

    With McMurray, the news media again aided the PTB’s agenda (obviously) by posing it only as a question … is this the right time to discuss the climate change ‘debate.’ (They’re reticence to explore the issues too deeply was their tacit answer … no, it’s not polite to discuss this now … see us, we’re not.) Yet, pipelines as a solution was fair game for discussion all throughout and after the Lac-Megantic disaster (and lack of pipelines pointed to regularly as a contributing cause of the disaster … for months that was nightly news.)

    During the McMurray fire, some people retorted that, yes, a one hundred car pile up during winter conditions is exactly when we would normally all start a discussion over snow removal and road maintenance issues. But, to no avail. It’s been decided here in Alberta that climate change is a political issue (why? because people say it is) and that it’s distasteful to discuss ‘your’ politics when people are suffering through such a disturbing trauma. Don’t go there, that’s been the clear message here socially in Alberta. A whole new hush has fallen. It’s palpable.

    It’s a twisted psychological mess indeed. People taking their cues subconsciously from the tricksy news media certainly doesn’t help either. It’s obvious climate change exacerbated the conditions for that fire. Even if ‘no tumor can ever be directly linked back to smoking a specific cigarette.’ (That’s the legalese intellectual argument the tobacco companies used to use to keep on selling their cigarettes.) That’s now the same argument Alberta is using for the McMurray fire regarding any connections back to climate change as a contributing factor.

    Thanks for your comment Dredd. I think the backlash and hostility definitely happens, especially when people’s livelihood is tied to the antagonizing activity. People really hate having their shit pointed out to them. They react very negatively to it and, as Guy has noted, try and shoot the messenger.

  • @feedjake,What I would like to be taken seriously is the fact that the ones that benefit from empire have the overwhelming responsibility to destroy empire be doing everything in their power to end empire. Believe me when I tell you empire is very fragile and could be seriously compromised without much risk to any one individual acting alone. And that acting alone in a focused intelligent manner no more than 300 individual people could break empire and that would reduce more suffering than all the focused meditation in the history of humanity. A mountain lion causes suffering for food. White males kill for cellphones,computers, cars, houses etcetera ad nauseum. I would say there is zero comparison because when the mountain lion kills the community he belongs to is in better shape.@nemesis at an earlier question;A few thousand committed asians sent the most powerful military the universe has ever known packing with only a few rusty ak-47’s. And It is happening again in afghanistan. And those afghans have already sent the russians packing 25 yrs ago.

  • The commercialization of Cuba is rampant. So many people here excited to get plugged back into Empire. Certainly did not expect so many brand new WiFi towers around Cuba. The first big cruise ships arrived.

    Hotter than ever. Winds have failed for us in little boats waiting to sail south. Tendrils of oil from the gulf of Mexico move south on the Yucatan current. Corexit chemicals? Huge jellyfish. An Animal Planet TV documentary tells us fish in the Chernobyl cooling rod have mutated large. Maybe after 400 more Fukishima’s life will mutate onward. Why did I care about working toward decommissioning all the nuclear plants. Instead there will molten salt small reactors in everyone’s back yards. Blue Beam mind programs in all the stores.

    A Budweiser beer can was found at the bottom of the deepest trench in the Atlantic ocean. Last week the LooKey coal reef was nearly bleached bone dead. But hundreds of tourists on Rum boats anchored above had no idea what the reef looked like years ago. Drinking, dancing, the party goes on. Gambling on microwaving everything. Experiments conducted in Vegas will see how many cells we can fry. Fuck the fish. We can create 7G holographic dolphins. Fry every brain form. Blame it on the sun.

    Son-of-a-gun Little White Ass boy flowing along. Container ships and Panama transit papers. Costa Rica we have a data base of Empire’s worst plans on the run. Acid seas of dead zones. Extinction is a 200 species per day double blind-fold oversight. NEMESIS with insight can see what is to come. Ten thousand vials in distribution, the induced pandemic de-population cocktail is being added to the arsenal. But it is impossible to believe we are conducting Microwave, Asymmetrical biowar on everyone. Eyes on other planets. Just think what we can do to other Earth like systems, after getting away with massive military industrial scale murder on this one.

  • @lwa, Your insightful understanding of social behaviour in alberta perfectly supports derrick jensen’s analysis that this culture suffers from top down abuse and the subsequent rule that we never talk about the abuse. We are a sick bunch of fucks, indeed. We are not even aware of the profound depths of our depravity. And might I add that a large portion of the viet cong where teenage girls. Where are the warrior princesses our pop culture loves (hunger games).Teenage brown girls make up a large amount of the resistance groups world wide. And I could go on and on and on about how much being a white male SUCKS!!!!! Why is it so threatening to recognize that all us white males suck!?!?!? Are we really that fucking weak!?!?!

  • .
    Cheers Puerto CUBA. I love the new mustache and dark glasses. Sad to hear how bad things are in Cuba now that they don’t have the good fortune of being isolated from empire. They don’t know how good they had it. Swirls of oil. Sad. Ahoy captain. Hardly even recognized you in that speedo. I’ll pay closer attention from now on.

    I know you’ve had this before, but here it is again, from you to me this time. Some non-holographic dolphins. I too was born in the sign of water you know. Safe journey my friend. So good to hear from you. I’ll try and send wind. 😉


  • LWA Says:
    May 15th, 2016 at 9:33 am


    You are a very astute observer, and quite savvy at analysis of what you observe.


  • @steve

    “… no more than 300 individual people could break empire…

    A few thousand committed asians sent the most powerful military the universe has ever known packing with only a few rusty ak-47’s. And It is happening again in afghanistan. And those afghans have already sent the russians packing 25 yrs ago.”

    Man, wake up. If it would be possible, to break Empire with some hundreds or thousands heros, it would already have happened. And it doesn’t matter anymore at all, because Empire is already falling, it is in free fall. Empire itself is the most effective Empire destroyer I could imagine, right now. And the rest will be done by Mother Nature quickly and extremely effective 🙂

    ” How can all the white males that listen to guy ever hope to be living a life of excellence while their very EXISTENCE depends on the murder and rank exploitation of the non-human/ brown human beings of this earth? Let me spell it out or should I just get my crayolas out. Your food,home,computers,cars depend on the burning of fossil fuels directly tied to global warming,directly tied to starving polar bears,acidified oceans,tar sands annihilation,palm oil rainforest destruction, old growth clearcuts, I cannot believe that what I am saying some find incoherent. I am really not saying anything much different than what Guy is saying. Is Guy incoherent also????? “

    So what’s your approach, after all? Do you have a better solution ?! NO, you haven’t. Breaking Empire ?! Then DO IT. What’s your plan? Charge the white house? Charge the pentagon? Charge all the multinational corporations ?! Man, you are mocking and bullying those, who pursue a life of excellence all the time. BUT YOU DON’T TELL ABOUT YOUR SOLUTIONS. When I asked you about your “mountain lion feeding habits”, when I asked you, if you can imagine 7 billion people feeding on wildlife, I didn’t get any fuckin answer from you at all. You are the typical troll:

    Throwing in some rather senseless mockery comments and then, when asked about any further implications about your funny claims, then you duck and come back later with new stupid claims. I don’t like that tactic at all, it’s the typical denier and bully tactic I see all my life. Now, take my answer to you or leave it, I will ignore any further comments from you, because ONLY MOCKERING ABOUT OTHERS is just annoying.


    The best way, to fight fuckin Empire, is, to fight it WITHIN YOURSELF, WITHIN, INSIDE.

  • … oh, wait, just a second:


    ” … no more than 300 individual people could break empire…”

    You have seen that stupid, sick movie “300”, you think, you are SPARTA, bwaaahahaha 😀

    Just grow up, man.

  • Political blogger Ian Welsh is going climate survivalist:


  • Six Minutes Of Fame
    Guy’s video presentation of the year nomination is…

    How Late Are We? You Don’t Want To Know, Do You? from collapse

  • infanttyrone, thanks very much for the intro to the Leningrad Cowboys.

    When I got married in Italy, my husband’s Italian musician friends were hired as the band. It’s actually not common to have a band or dancing at a wedding in the modern culture, in Central Italy anyway… We gave them free rein to play whatever they wanted.

    So, there’s that first slow dance with the newly-married couple, and “Knocking on Heaven’s Door” is what they played!! They had no idea of the English words; they just liked the music and thought it sounded romantic!! 🙂

    @Nemesis, I know your attention span isn’t all it could be. I had no intention of painting Herr N. as a “deity”… not sure where you got that.

    Rather, I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek about having been supernaturally “sent” a “message”, the contents of which was a text challenging the concept of the supernatural. Get it? My fault for a poor joke, if it has to be explained, I suppose.

    @ogf, I respect your comments and insights, even when I disagree with them. You say, “I will never be shown evidence that Nietzsche was actually qualified to make that statement”.. What does that even mean, “qualified”? Here we are in the same sort of trap/quibble that you identified elsewhere, I believe. What makes someone qualified? Who qualifies them?

    I’m not a champion of Herr N. per se.. I just thought it was humorous to be getting certain philosophical tracts along with mail-order plants! …and it’s true he was a product of his time, his circumstances, and his genetics, as any one of us is.

    I was reading about that poor dead wolverine, and found that, in an earlier people’s theology or cosmology or whatever you want to call it, the wolverine was the Creator of the Universe. Are they or were they “qualified” to say that?

    ”Long ago, Kuekuatsheu [wolverine] built a big boat like Noah’s Ark, and put all the various animal species in it. There was a great deal of rain and the land was flooded. He told the mink to dive into the water to retrieve some mud and rocks, which he mixed together to make an island. This island is the world which we presently inhabit along with all the animals.”


    The “Will to Live” as a universal energetic principle (if not as ‘moral’ guidepost) holds a degree of clarity for me, whereas a Wolverine fashioning the mud island(s) currently regarded as terra firma has less explanatory potency. Could they both be wrong? Maybe so, but I’m inclined to choose one over the other.. I haven’t explicitly tried to hold No Beliefs, but I would imagine that to be nigh on impossible. [A serious question: have any of you tried it?]

    Re. communist revolutions.. what were they except promises to the masses that they would have more stuff.. the stuff the old elites controlled? Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. None of these folks ever wanted to give “power to the people”.. if they wanted to, they would have. Just like here in the US where we worship a Democracy that never actually existed… These examples seem to me to confirm the power principles I’ve referenced, rather than refute them.

    Nemesis is right: the current human population can’t live anything like a “natural” life any longer. Even a tenth or a hundredth of us would be very hard-pressed to do so, as our ancestors were often hard-pressed. As Guy points out in his Q&A, even early and very small low-tech settlements got into big trouble and crashed, even with all the wealth of nature to be had hundreds of years ago which is now only a dim memory.

    Guy also could probably tell you about the exorbitant cost of “living simply” and resiliently (i.e., in a “mud hut”). While there are places to subsistence farm on less than $500k, the fact remains that fossil fuels are still “better” than subsistence-farming or hunter-gathering at turning materials and energy into human biomass, even at the expenditure of 10 FF calories for every 1 food calorie. That, and of course all the other high-tech science-y things like vaccines and autoclaves and nasal-gastric tubes and defibrillators and chemotherapy and blood thinners.

    On a global basis, we can’t afford any of it, but on an individual basis we can’t NOT afford it: the alternative means almost-immediate death for the majority (the majority of us only being alive BECAUSE OF all the things we now decry). Given the choice of death now or death later, the majority, for some odd reason, chooses later.

  • It’s not the who, Lidia, it’s the what. It’s the statement itself. Human statements comprised of abstractions without context, that proclaim to hold some universal truth – in this case “All” history – are beyond questionable. They are statements that can neither be proved nor disproved. No human alive is ever going to have knowledge of “all history.” Ergo, I can accept that Nietzsche, as a human, however gifted he might be, cannot know “All history,” either.

    And since that’s the foundational premise of everything that follows, I feel confident that Nietzsche’s statement is compelling, but it is pretty meaningless. However, it is very flexible, and can be used readily to make any number of points regarding anything that people consider the definition of the words – all history, will to power, will to life, organic. Due to the lack of context for these words, and the fact that people believe that their understanding of them is the correct one, it could appear to provide insight to reality.

    I don’t hold that any ancient creation myth of any group of people is real. I’m not sure what that has to do with Nietzsche, since I believe that both you and I agree that creation myths aren’t factual accounts.

  • Lidia, I rarely comment here any more because I only check the site once a day, at most, and I inevitably feel like the conversation has passed me by. Nonetheless, I have been thinking about mentioning that I always enjoy whatever you have to say and appreciate your contributions. Now, here I am, able to write immediately after your post, to say that ever since I read Jeb McKenna’s books I have had a different relationship with belief. His premise is that ‘no beliefs are true,’ but I had issues with that idea. I do, however, think that ‘no beliefs are provable,’ and have realized that I believe whatever makes me most comfortable at the time, and that my beliefs change with my circumstances. Needless to say, this gives me a rather cavalier attitude about my beliefs on any given day, and makes me much more willing to entertain the beliefs of others, even when they seem nonsensical to me on first exposure. Supposedly, Lewis Carroll said that he had sometimes believed six impossible things before breakfast. I’m not there yet, but definitely find one of my beliefs ridiculous on a regular basis. Thanks for asking the question!

  • What is more accurate, is to question my religion that “no human can know those things,” which is my cosmology. That’s true.

    In this culture, people do believe that humans can know the many overwhelming universal, omniscient statements that the culture fosters at seemingly every single turn.

    My religious view in this instance definitely is a Native American perspective. It pertains to the nature of human beings as animals, and their limitations, in keeping with the limitations of all animals. In this case, “all animals” is not without context. We’re animals, not God. In this culture our language reflects our unconscious presumed god-like skills. And that’s a religion, too. It’s not my religion, though.

  • Deb, thanks for answering!

    Do you feel that your connections with others might be compromised as a result of being capricious or less-than-constant? Or do you find better relations because you can fit in with what others want to hear more readily? (Or neither that you can ascertain..?)

    To what degree might what makes *you* feel comfortable have to do with what makes the others around you feel comfortable? I’m curious, and I know you won’t take these questions the wrong way. Do you think your professional training has pre-disposed you to embrace this sort of extra-ordinary flexibility of position?

    @ogf, I can appreciate what you are saying. And certainly the very concept of “history” does have embodied in itself the limitation to or bias towards cultures with written language, itself an important basic characteristic of civilization. Written records are (in theory) something that we can “check” for validity. History is qualified! 🙂 .. a word which -worse luck- has the meanings both of fulfilling a requirement *and* of being incomplete!

    This just in:

    “Necessarily human nature is revealed in the world humans have constructed. How could it be otherwise?”

  • COOL CHANGE!!! Thanks, LWA. Mark Austin will love that, too, if he’s not already off the grid.

    I will post this video for the 3rd and final time here on NBL. I don’t want to be a pest, but it really is an incredible song. Almost feels like it was written by someone who reads this blog regularly:

  • ‘Human nature is revealed in the world humans have constructed.How could it be otherwise.’ Dave Cohen should read some Wade Davis and ‘Human Natures’
    by Paul Ehrlich. Industrial civilisation is just one of many worlds that humans have inhabited,and some of those worlds have been less ‘constructed ‘than others. The unavoidable systemic flaws of industrial civilisation
    did not exist in some of those worlds,just as not all human societies
    had the same rapacious approach to the natural world as the dominant culture does today.

    The Heat continues.


  • Lidia,

    Glad I could help with the flashback to Italy.

    I haven’t explicitly tried to hold No Beliefs, but I would imagine that to be nigh on impossible.

    This reminds me of the “anti-paranoia” that Pynchon mentions in Gravity’s Rainbow: “If there is something comforting – religious, if you want – about paranoia, there is still also anti-paranoia, where nothing is connected to anything, a condition not many of us can bear for long.”


    Had to go to a quote page for the exact line on anti-paranoia, and a couple other quotes seemed related to some of the themes being discussed here from time to time:

    TPTB Maxim #1
    “If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.”

    Where the Elite Meet
    “They have had their moment of freedom. Webley has only been a guest star. Now it’s back to the cages and the rationalized forms of death—death in the service of the one species cursed with the knowledge that it will die…. “I would set you free, if I knew how. But it isn’t free out here. All the animals, the plants, the minerals, even other kinds of men, are being broken and reassembled every day, to preserve an elite few, who are the loudest to theorize on freedom, but the least free of all. I can’t even give you hope that it will be different someday—that They’ll come out, and forget death, and lose Their technology’s elaborate terror, and stop using every form of life without mercy to keep what haunts men down to a tolerable level—and be like you instead, simply here, simply alive…..” The guest star retires down the corridors.”

    Something for the Last Human Standing
    “It’s been a prevalent notion. Fallen sparks. Fragments of vessels broken at the Creation. And someday, somehow, before the end, a gathering back to home. A messenger from the Kingdom, arriving at the last moment. But I tell you there is no such message, no such home — only the millions of last moments . . . nothing more. Our history is an aggregate of last moments.”

    Authority, Si…Responsibility, No
    “There is no real direction here, neither lines of power nor cooperation. Decisions are never really made – at best they manage to emerge, from a chaos of peeves, whims, hallucinations and all around assholery. ”

    And chock-full of resources…serendipity? Not on your life.
    “Colonies are the outhouses of the European soul, where a fellow can let his pants down and relax, enjoy the smell of his own shit.”

    Wasn’t that a hit for Barry Manilow? “I write the History”
    “Don’t forget the real business of war is buying and selling. The murdering and violence are self-policing, and can be entrusted to non-professionals. The mass nature of wartime death is useful in many ways. It serves as spectacle, as diversion from the real movements of the War. It provides raw material to be recorded into History, so that children may be taught History as sequences of violence, battle after battle, and be more prepared for the adult world. Best of all, mass death’s a stimolous to just ordinary folks, little fellows, to try ‘n’ grab a piece of that Pie while they’re still here to gobble it up. The true war is a celebration of markets.”

    Um, did someone say “qualified”?
    “In their brief time together Slothrop forms the impression that this octopus is not in good mental health, though where’s his basis for comparing?”

    “The Man has a branch office in each of our brains, his corporate emblem is a white albatross, each local rep has a cover known as the Ego, and their mission in this world is Bad Shit. We do know what’s going on, and we let it go on. As long as we can see them, stare at them, those massively moneyed, once in a while. As long as they allow us a glimpse, however rarely. We need that. And they know it – how often, under what conditions…”

    Was Byron (the immortal light bulb) modeled after Nietzsche?
    “Byron, as he burns on, sees more and more of this pattern. He learns how to make contact with other kinds of electric appliances, in homes, in factories and out in the streets. Each has something to tell him. The pattern gathers in his soul (Seele, as the core of the earlier carbon filament was known in Germany), and the grander and clearer it grows, the more desperate Byron gets. Someday he will know everything, and still be as impotent as before. His youthful dreams of organizing all the bulbs in the world seem impossible now—the Grid is wide open, all messages can be overheard, and there are more than enough traitors out on the line. Prophets traditionally don’t last long—they are either killed outright, or given an accident serious enough to make them stop and think, and most often they do pull back. But on Byron has been visited an even better fate. He is condemned to go on forever, knowing the truth and powerless to change anything. No longer will he seek to get off the wheel. His anger and frustration will grow without limit, and he will find himself, poor perverse bulb, enjoying it.”

    Maybe RLJones is somehow related to Byron the Bulb (torqued up & lovin’ it)

    I yield the balance of my posts to any distinguished Beach-goer in need.

  • ”Long ago, Kuekuatsheu [wolverine] built a big boat like Noah’s Ark, and put all the various animal species in it. There was a great deal of rain and the land was flooded. He told the mink to dive into the water to retrieve some mud and rocks, which he mixed together to make an island. This island is the world which we presently inhabit along with all the animals.”


    Lidia, your mention of the creation story of the Kuekuatsheu reminds me of the creation story of the Ohlone Indians who inhabited the San Francisco Bay Area, in fact, all the way from San Francisco to Monterey Bay. They believed that the Coyote created their ancestors and they do have an elaborate story that describes it all. It’s all there in “The Ohlone Way” written in the 1970s by Malcolm Margolin.

    While reading Margolin’s narration of the Ohlone’s creation story, I couldn’t help picture how that story comes across to the modern mind that believes/knows that the Earth has existed for so many Billions of years, that it all came out of the Big Bang, etc., in other words, a Scientifically literate mind that knows facts. It would be somewhat naive to think that Margolin wasn’t aware of the lenses that his audience would look through as they read about the Coyote creating the Ohlones. It would be naive to think that the audience wouldn’t, in turn, look down upon the Ohlone as a naive bunch of people, “primitive” in character and awareness, and given to superstition and wild speculation. What else would it be other than an inability to separate fact from fiction if one believed that the world was created by the Coyote. Even as Margolin gives us a much-needed and well-researched glimpse into the life of a particular Native American culture, there is a certain shade, a dark gray shade of “mischief” flowing through the pages. It has much to do with the author’s awareness or lack thereof of how the audience, the readership will perceive it all. I realize that Margolin and other authors like him who write about Native Americans for a mainstream audience have an extremely difficult job walking the fine line between accurately depicting the lives, customs and belief systems of Native Americans and making them look like utter fools. In that regard, Margolin does as fine a job as anyone and I have no complaints with his work. And yet, a majority of his readers have undoubtedly walked away feeling more or less “different” from the Native Americans. Different in a superior way, that is.

    Now, it would also be naive to think that your mention of the Kuekuatsheu and their creation story doesn’t serve a similar purpose of degrading an entire culture that has successfully lived in relative harmony with their environs for thousands of years. That’s unfortunate!

    Perhaps, when they talk about how the world was created, they are talking about how THEIR WORLD was created. THEIR WORLD may or may not have anything to do with what we think of as OUR WORLD. Mention the word “world” to most anyone these days, and the first thing that comes to their mind is very likely the image of a spherical planet we call Earth, or the image of a world map. The same word might have evoked a different image in one’s mind before we had wide access to pictures of Earth from space. A few hundred years ago, for most people, the word “world” might have evoked an image of mountains and savannas and crop fields and rivers.

    There are certain questions we need to ask ourselves – what kind of disservice are we doing to fellow human beings by characterizing entire cultures as utterly naive in this manner? What kind of disservice are we doing to ourselves? What kind of disservice are we doing to our children who grow up with a warped sense of history and pre-history in a culture that disrespects fellow man, irrespective of what the latter might or might not have believed about THEMSELVES?

    None of these questions become irrelevant with temperatures rising exponentially and NTE likely around the corner. They say life continues to present us with the lessons we refuse to learn, until we learn. What lessons remain for us to learn, in a collective sense, now that we have brought the planet to its knees? Have we even begun?

    Here’s where we end up with all this: those uncivilized cultures… what they believed was their own business. They didn’t impose their beliefs on others. If anything, they guarded their stories carefully lest they become corrupted by those who are unfamiliar with them and by those who have an inability to contextualize them properly. And their beliefs didn’t hurt civilized man where ever he happened to live then.

    What can we say about our own civilized way of life? That we leave people to their own belief systems un-assailed and un-harassed? That we don’t impose our beliefs on them? That our beliefs don’t hurt them? That our beliefs don’t hurt our world, the spherical planet we call Earth?

    Sadly, we continue to fail to acknowledge that thousands of “primitive” cultures all over the world have taken care of “THEIR WORLD” far better than we have taken care of “OUR WORLD”.

    Oddly enough, as hard as it is for us to fathom, many of these primitive peoples knew very well that their world was a small part of a spherical planet. They just didn’t think it was any of their prerogative to describe or comment upon the lands of other peoples elsewhere. It would seem a very wise choice. That’s how humans have lived for hundreds of thousands of years. By minding their own business and leaving others to their business.

    If there is any fundamental right that any being can claim to have, it is the right to be left alone. Civilized man has infringed upon this most basic of rights of innumerable peoples all over the world. It is civilized man’s inability to understand other peoples on their own terms that has caused this confusion about what WE think THEY thought about THEIR WORLD.

    I will leave you with a most beautiful creation story – one of the Sami people who inhabit Northern Europe – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZIU7KEis3w – can you try and see why the Sami credit the Reindeer with creating their world? Can you picture the sensitivity and reverence with which they approach the source of almost everything in their lives? If you happened to be a small child growing up in the Sami culture, would you consider it outrageous that your elders are telling you that the stars are created from the eyes of the reindeer? What if you peered into the eye of a reindeer long enough and saw the reflection of a thousand stars? What if the Sami people do indeed see the hundreds of ways that everything around them is interconnected but they see it all through the lens that is most readily available to them, one that is most important to them, one that is critical for their very survival, the one that feeds and clothes the small child that is you?

  • From Weather zone (Australia)

    10th May
    Sydney breaks 157-year April heat record, 34.0 degrees in city
    4th May
    Rockhampton on its warmest May Day in 77 yrs. of records (32.9C).
    Mackay reached 30.3 degrees before a sea breeze arrived; the city’s warmest May day in 74 years
    27th April
    Melbourne stays warmer than 20 degrees all night, a record warm night for this late in the season
    27th April
    Unseasonable warmth in SE Aust – 74 yrs. since Launceston (Tasmania) was this warm (23.7C) this late in the season
    Highest fire danger this late in season in >10 yrs in SA due to warm, dry northerlies to 50-70km/h
    6th April
    Bourke scorches in hottest April day in 94 years, reaching 38.1 deg – much cooler in next few days
    Sydney breaks 157-year April heat record, 34.0 degrees in city
    Sydney’s warmest April day in 30 yrs, 33 deg in city, 34 deg in Bankstown – cooler change tonight
    2nd April
    Western Sydney lapping up warmest April day in 10 years, reaching 31-32 deg, 7 deg above average
    30th march
    Near-record heat rebuilding in northwest and central Australia
    9th March
    Sydney now warmer than 20� for 20 days/nights. Previous record – 18 days/nights in Jan/Feb 2010
    7th march
    Today Deniliquin to set new March record of 7 consecutive 38-degree days (old record 6 days in 1934)
    6th March
    Mildura swelter through hottest March day in 74 years, 42.1 degrees. A few more 40-degree days ahead
    29th feb
    That was Sydney’s sunniest February in >40 years, now for the city’s hottest March week in 33 years
    Brisbane caps off second driest summer on record with sizzling February
    16th Feb
    Geraldton cooling down to low 30s after hottest pair of days in 9 yrs, 43.9 and 44.5 degrees
    9th Feb
    Perth’s hottest 4-days in 18 yrs, averaging 41C. Touch and go to equal record 4-day run of 40C

    Naomi Klein wins Sydney Peace prize award
    Please be warned>< reading this article could make you very sick and angry

  • Give a little bit

    Fools overture

    Q & A from Two Presentations

  • Sorry try again

    FOOls OVerture !

  • @Lidia

    ” I know your attention span isn’t all it could be.”

    Exactly. That’s because of my free will 🙂

    @Satish Musunuru

    Excellent comment!

  • Martin Prechtel was born in New Mexico to a German Swiss & Irish father and a Canadian First Nations mother; he grew up on a Native American reservation is New Mexico and declined initiation into the tribe when he came of age; he made his way through Mexico to Guatemala when he turned twenty, and after many a harrowing and even life-threatening adventures ended up in Santiago Atitlan, a village of Tzutujil Maya on a lake amid volcanic mountains under the mentorship of Nicholas Chiviliu, a chief shaman for the region who was also a retired tribal chief, having served in that capacity for many decades.

    Martin himself became a regional chief shaman, and tribal chief but had to flee for his life when the civil war started. He had further adventures on returning to the United States, very remarkable ones like those in Mexico and Guatemala, which to me emphasises the interconnectedness of all things. He now teaches what he had learned, in New Mexico, and his website is FloweringMountain.com.

    He has written several books, every one of them worth reading if one cares to have some idea about the indigenous peoples of the Americas:
    Secrets of the Talking Jaguar
    Long Life, Honey in the Heart
    The Disobedience of the Daughter of the Sun
    Stealing Benefacio’s Roses
    The unlikely Peace at Cuchumaquic
    The Smell of Rain on Dust

    I have read them all once; one of the requirements to enter his school is to read each of them four thmes.

    In one of his books he describes an incident of a shamanic ritual in which one assumes the spirit of another living being, in this case a tree. In the course of the ritual on top of a hill he felt some warm liquid running down the back of his leg, and he turned around to see a jaguar urinating on his leg as if marking a tree. He reached out and pulled one whisker from the jaguar which he keeps; tradition has it that a whisker taken from a free, live jaguar bestows special powers on a shaman.

  • @Robin Datta

    Beautiful comment. Thank you. I found this on http://www.floweringmountain.com/ :

    ” Deep in our bones resides an ancient, singing couple who just won’t give up making their beautiful, wild noise. The world won’t end if we can find them.”

    – from “Secrets of the Talking Jaguar”

    And I found this on youtube:


    Thanks again, Sir Robin Datta 🙂

  • The will to words.

    I wish I could write.

    I wish I could think.

    But, that doesn’t stop me.

  • Monday 5.16.16 NBL. lots of word salad, whole lots a word salad.

  • Roger is the man!

  • I like notions, they’re like ideas, but less grounded in reality.

    So I must dispel any notions of self-contained sustainable human habitats beyond mass-extinction.

    The integrity and harmony of self-contained sustainable ecological systems for human habitat is beyond our current kin. We cannot yet maintain artificial self-contained ecosystem habitats for humanity. The space station is not a self-contained system. Any attempt at survival in this manner will be fatal due to the inherent chaos of complexity. I learned that from the dinosaur movie.

  • .
    @Dave thompson says …

    “Monday 5.16.16 NBL. lots of word salad, whole lots a word salad.”

    The only commenters on the 16th in this thread up until you made your comment, apart from a list of temperatures and a few songs, was from Satish (who spent the effort to write up a very thoughtful comment regarding the current discussion, and I thank him greatly for his contribution.)

    So I assume by your ridiculing and obnoxious remark, Dave, that you were referring to Satish? Can’t you address someone directly? Why can’t you address someone directly? What was that smarmy comment of yours referring to exactly, and who? Can’t you provide some arguments to back up your trite and foolish little drive by remark? Why do you behave the way you do Dave? Have you never asked yourself that?

    It seems to me as though you have a lot of guilt Dave. Was yours not just the typical cliche reaction of a brainwashed empirical racist steeped in his beliefs? I thought we’d maybe finally moved past the stupidity and denial here. Then along comes Dave with his wetiko infection. You must be one of the good ones apneaman was referring to.

    Do I really need to start posting large metaphysical essays again? I guess maybe I do. Really long stuttering ones.


  • Lidia,

    This time, your comments re: communist revolutions, or just plain ‘revolutions for that matter, are as accurate as any I’ve read about the way we seem to act when we somehow inherit some kind of power. It’s the Survival of the Fittest syndrome kicking in…. i.e., your “Will to Live” reference.

    I can relate well to Guy’s acknowledgement that bucking the system is a risky and often unrewarding venture. I myself walked out of my teaching job after about 15 years but I just couldn’t justify being the slave of a system that was not geared for learning, but more for the enslavement of the young minds in front of me. With three young children in tow who dependent on my choices, it was not an easy move, and one which pitted me against the status quo for more years than I care to remember.

    The biggest hurdles to overcome when bucking the system do not come from the rich, but from the rest of us who make life as miserable as we can for those who dare to challenge the status quo. Call it the Revenge of the Few who graduate from the ignorance of the masses. I.e., I think Guy could attest that his biggest critics come from the people who are still enslaved by the system.

    What remains of the Earth’s ecosystems is slowly but surely being ravaged by fires and increased demands on nature’s realms. The most astonishing comments I’ve read in the last few weeks still involve the ‘growth’ factors of human economics. Even though our species is experiencing record temperatures everywhere, the economic systems which have brought us to our knees and threaten our very existence are still being promoted by GNP as if nothing is happening.

    When the grass under most people’s feet is on fire, then and only then will they run for the nearest swimming pool, which at that time may be boiling anyway. It’s never been THEM who were at fault for our present slide to oblivion, but US, as in you and me who have failed miserably to look after our interest, which in reality was completely dependent on looking after each other. If the number of home foreclosures in every part of the world is to be taken into account, it should not be much of a surprise that the Earth’s life forces are about to foreclose on everybody.

  • I am already Missing NBL radio . I see New Zealand trip is being prepared for Guy later in the year ? I am wondering why Guy is not also going to “Lecture” to India indonesia china ever Those places would be in some sort of proximity don`t those people want to know whats going on !? Just wondering

  • Thank you, EtyerePetyere. I’ll go anywhere there’s a willing host.

  • Satish, “Now, it would also be naive to think that your mention of the Kuekuatsheu and their creation story doesn’t serve a similar purpose of degrading an entire culture that has successfully lived in relative harmony with their environs for thousands of years.”

    You got that right. The logic is that Lidia respects Nietzsche’s ideas as more “real” than the ideas of a creation myth of indigenous people, which is meant to represent Native American “reality.” It’s a false equivalency, and as I pointed out, a more valid equivalency would be to examine my belief that no human can actually know “all history.”

    Protecting that superiority of the noble white guy culture is a tough job.

  • Well there are two well established facts now. Nemesis is firmly and unapologetically in the privileged white male camp and I am fervently forever aspiring to be in Lierre Kieth’s tribe of militant radical feminists. @Lidia, Man…, All us white male sure like to hack on you. Your more than competent intellectual superiority is unsettling. Your ability to express your self through the use of weird phonic symbols (words) is truly impressive. @feedjake thanks for your sincere gesture,I am just an old crank certain that my grasp on reality is the most objective of any human in the history of the universe and therefore push a moral agenda I am rock certain of. If LWA likes you you must be allright. @ all others’ come on people in your gut you know a life of excellence is at the very minimum heavily truncated as long as you are sucking on empire’s hind teet!!!

  • Arch optimist, Robert Scribbler, says (May 13) Blue Ocean Event (no Arctic sea ice) increasingly “likely” this summer.

    A cooking Arctic heat wave predicted for the upcoming week.

    search; Robert Scribbler

  • .
    @steve … people left alive should not be taken as any endorsement by me of their character. 😉

    @babajingo … thanks again for the Jim ‘Ginny’ James song. That song is possible the best thing you’ve ever tossed my way.

    Here’s one just for grins. I’ve been trippin’ on the Hawaiian brothers lately, and that’s where ‘Love I’ from ‘The Green’ that I posted above came from too. Island music. Go home haole music.

    Oh, no thank you, only when I play music please. That’s what that’s for.


  • At lwa, Hell I am so disliked I was kind of afraid to recognize jake’s kind gesture yesterday because my rank taint might rub off on him or you. Scenario: during the nazi occupation of france a non-jew, non-algerian says to the young french resistance dude, ” What are you going to do with that rusty luger, Storm the reichstag?” Later when the nazi’s caught and tortured the resistance dude the anonymous white male commented to himself “If he would have done what I told him to do, grow up. this would have never have happened.” @ izzy, from several days ago, no I don’t compete with the wolves we are more like partners in crime to rid the woods of those large lumbering ugly invasive species that cowboys worship and have sex with on lonely prairie nights. Where do you think “giddiup little doggie” comes from?

  • @ LWA My comment “lots of word salad, whole lots a word salad.” was directed at no one in particular. By your response I would suspect that you LWA have issues. Sorry I cannot help you in that regard. The only advice I might give you LWA,is you need not get your undies in a twist over silly innocuous half sentences directed NOT at you, or anyone in particular. The comment in and of itself was harmless, near as I can tell. Smarmy? Sardonic? Sarcastic? Smartassed? To the point? LOLTM.

  • @Guy: ” I’ll go anywhere there’s a willing host.”

    Pun intended? 😉

    @ogf, I am pretty sure I used the word “respect” exactly zero times in regard to Mr. N. An idea either seems valid or not. You are placing a social and emotional weight on the matter that I don’t feel is merited. Satish does the same when he unctuously insinuates that I regard earlier people as “primitive” or that I think of them in degrading or denigrating ways, which is completely untrue. That all comes from him and from you, not from me.

    Instead, I see striking parallels to our own behavior in that of our ancestors: they also liked to turn live things into dead things as a way of displaying status and to attract mates:

    They just did it on a smaller scale, because there were fewer of them, and so it mattered less.

    Plains Indians obtained feathers for their war bonnets by capturing young eagles from the nest. Once the bird reached maturity they could pluck tail feathers three times, until they no longer grew back, yielding a total of thirty-six feathers. The same nest could be raided annually. I could find no information on the fate of the thrice-plucked birds that could no longer fly but I doubt it was auspicious.

    I find stories of earlier people interesting and compelling in their own way, they surely are much more emotionally satisfying than “science”… but that’s just not good enough to explain how we got to where we are. Remember, too, that they are talking about *themselves* and painting themselves in a good light. Why should I believe *their* cultural stories any more than I believe the cultural stories of the United States.. that George Washington chopped down a cherry tree and couldn’t tell a lie.. or that we are “bringing freedom” to the Middle East?

    Native Americans aren’t going to talk about buffalo jumps just like most contemporary Iowans don’t want to talk about factory farming.

    Hunters herded the bison and drove them over the cliff, breaking their legs and rendering them immobile. Tribe members waiting below closed in with spears and bows to finish the kills. The Blackfoot Indians called the buffalo jumps “pishkun”, which loosely translates as “deep blood kettle”. This type of hunting was a communal event which occurred as early as 12,000 years ago and lasted until at least 1500 CE, around the time of the introduction of horses. The broader term game jumps includes buffalo jumps and cliffs used for similarly hunting other herding animals, such as reindeer. The Indians believed that if any buffalo escaped these killings then the rest of the buffalos would learn to avoid humans, which would make hunting even harder.[1] (wikipedia)

    Horses, of course, were the next level of TECHNOLOGY, which humans almost universally avail themselves of in order to obtain more energy and materials with less effort.

    Trying to white-wash this sort of thing doesn’t help anybody comprehend our predicament. It’s just another feel-good religious exercise… as I have stated in the past, I believe it is parallel to Judeo-Christian stories and those of other religions.. stories of lost innocence which obviously comes from a universal place of psychological necessity. Where did the path to/from Eden really diverge, though? That has been discussed here by many, but where is the evidence that any of our ancestors haven’t been somewhere along the same slippery slope which started with the first language (which can only deceive), or with the first primate who who developed a tool.

    Ulm Pishkun Buffalo Jump is likely the largest buffalo jump in the world. It was used by the Native Americans in the area between 900 and 1500 AD. The cliffs themselves stretch for more than a mile and the site below has compacted bison bones nearly 13 feet (4.0 m) deep.

    Has anyone bemoaned this in the same way “rich white males from the global north” bemoan modern-day dolphin slaughter? If not, why not?

    Ogf: “The logic is that Lidia respects Nietzsche’s ideas as more “real” than the ideas of a creation myth of indigenous people, which is meant to represent Native American “reality.”

    Part of “Native American reality” was that they could keep driving the buffalo off cliffs forever. How is this intrinsically different from moderns assuming pension funds will keep throwing off 8%?

    And again, mixing words like “logic” and “respect” only causes confusion. I can only react to what I see. I see that people pursue energy and materials, status and power, and have always done so, with few exceptions if any. I have no material evidence to the contrary. Stories of the good old days are not material evidence. 13 ft. of bison bones is material evidence.

    I’m not interested in Nietzsche because he represents a world view that I *want* to see, that I *wish* were so, or that *serves a positive emotional purpose*.. Exactly the opposite. In fact, I’m not even really interested in Nietzsche at all!! If I were, I would read his books! I have a couple, but have only gotten half through one of them!!

    Guy is the one who appears to read Nietzsche on a more-regular basis, and who cited him in the presentation video above.. I was just making an off-the-cuff joke. Why don’t you take this Nietzsche/white-science-guy stuff up with him? (A rhetorical question.)

  • Lidia, you asked: “Do you feel that your connections with others might be compromised as a result of being capricious or less-than-constant? Or do you find better relations because you can fit in with what others want to hear more readily? (Or neither that you can ascertain..?)”

    I would say that my relationships are easier because although I don’t change my beliefs to fit in with what others want to hear, I also don’t feel so strongly about my beliefs that I’m compelled to defend them or argue about them.

    Your second question: “To what degree might what makes *you* feel comfortable have to do with what makes the others around you feel comfortable? I’m curious, and I know you won’t take these questions the wrong way. Do you think your professional training has pre-disposed you to embrace this sort of extra-ordinary flexibility of position?”

    I’m not very influenced by what people around me believe; for as long as I can remember I’ve held beliefs that many of my friends and relatives thought were weird, and I don’t try to hide my beliefs unless I’m aware that sharing them makes others uncomfortable. I think my choice of profession (law, for those of you who don’t know me) was influenced by my ability to see both sides of an argument and ‘make a case’ for nearly every point of view, rather than the other way around. Interesting questions!

    For all: Having mentioned Jed McKenna, I feel compelled to re-post my favorite quote from him, since it’s been years since I first posted it and it generated some conversation at the time (thanks to ulvfugl!)

    I’ve seen longer, more elaborate versions of this, but as I remember it from one of his books, it goes like this: ‘We’re all treading water in a shoreless sea, and we gather together in groups to try to convince ourselves otherwise.’

  • Lidia, I quote you: The “Will to Live” as a universal energetic principle (if not as ‘moral’ guidepost) **holds a degree of clarity for me,** whereas a Wolverine fashioning the mud island(s) currently regarded as terra firma has less explanatory potency. Could they both be wrong? Maybe so, but **I’m inclined to choose one over the other**.. ”

    Satish and I have both addressed your point – Nietzsche is more believable than indigenous creation myths, and his concepts “hold more clarity for [you].” It’s a false equation. When it is revealed, I’m confusing things.

    I don’t think so, Lidia.

    And, you digress yet again, Lidia, with your omniscient understanding of how Native Americans thought about their use of resources and how that use would affect the future. I’d like evidence that they actually thought that, and I’d also like you to ponder a few facts, including that native people had apparently been using those buffalo jumps for a really long time, and yet, when Europeans got here there were millions and millions of bison in the land that is now the lower 48, and they stretched well beyond the plains into the eastern woodlands, from far into Canada and to Mexico in the south. It is estimated by most scholars that when the woodlands bison had already been exterminated, and before the wholesale invasion of the west after the Civil War, there were still 60 million bison on the plains. Within 15 years after the Civil War, when the US was focused on fulfilling its manifest destiny, there were fewer than 100 buffalo left in the U.S.

  • Scribbler’s piece on the disappearing Arctic sea ice is powerful evidence for upcoming NTE.

    His prescient piece is as important as anything I ever read.

    Even long suffering Scribbler is completely bummed.

    Runaway climate disruption & subsequent NTE are here now.

    Scribbler just posted an authoritative new piece on the ongoing massive wildfires in Canada, & the Canadian media’s non-coverage.

    The Ft McMurray wildfire(s) continues to blaze away.

    Hades hot in N. Canada.

    Sydney-down-under broke all heat records.

    Yabut, whad about Nietzsche’s bowels &/or his last movement(s)???

    … And all those miserable white pricks, literally, with their all causative patriarchy & arch prickliness, as in Edith Prickly.

  • Lidia, I’m taking Nietzsche up with you because I’m responding directly to your own post and to Nietzsche’s specific words that you quoted. Now, I should take it up with Guy? Why would I do that?

    I’m not trying to establish some universal and near-god-like understanding of how great Nietzsche was, or his work, or not. I’m using the discussion to look at language and ideas and how they are used, and how they confuse people so often.

    I’m not at all confused, and I don’t believe you are, either.

  • correction: there were as many as 60 million buffalo on the plains, the estimates actually range between 30 and 60 million.

  • Ruth Mundy—-Love in the time of coral reefs:

  • The first mention of Nietzsche was by Guy in his linked video.

    I then joked about having received a message from “the beyond” in the form of a Nietzschean(?) text. I glanced through the text in question and within a minute or two found a paragraph (which I had never read before.. I have not read the work at all) which echoed some of the energy concepts I and others are thinking about. I wasn’t presenting it with particular “respect” as I don’t think of things in those terms.

    I don’t understand what you mean by a “false equation”.

    Things either are the way they are, or they are not. If things could have been different, they would have been. There may be two, or two billion, different opinions or points of view, but there are not two or two billion actual physical worlds which support human life. There is only one.

    I retain that retreating into any world of stories—whether those stories are about aliens or wolverines or angels or gods, whether alt-energy and self-driving cars, “soul AI”, or relocation to Mars—is less-than-helpful in a practical sense. It unfortunately appears to be necessary in a psychological sense.

    Living creatures need energy and materials to survive. Living creatures seek to maintain and increase their biomass by intercepting flows of energy and materials. A problem in our trying to communicate is that you appear to see these “facts” or “realities” (in scare quotes) as somehow optional.. like we can just choose to change the story to one that suits us better.

    Let’s follow Satish’s opening: instead of defending reindeer, USians will defend Target or Walmart, and the carz that get us there, because that’s what keeps most Americans alive. So most US-ians will defend those entities (AND the US with its military, AND capitalism in general) and get misty-eyed over them because that’s how they get fed. And they will wave their little flags come July 4th with as much conviction as someone doing a rain dance or wearing a Yoruba mask invoking dead ancestors. Trump is the Big Man with the apparent shamanic powers to make money and babes appear out of nowhere…

    That’s the story that’s the quote-unquote ‘false equivalent’ -the analog- to the Wolverine story, I reckon, while the energy ‘story’ (reality) necessarily underlies all others, and is one that “white culture” is generally disinclined to believe.

    @ogf: “I’m not at all confused, and I don’t believe you are, either.”
    Good, then that makes two of us!

    The buffalo story complicates itself further seeing as the extermination of the buffalo was not carried out by Europeans in order to harvest the resource, but as an explicit tactic in order to deny it to the earlier continental occupants and starve them out.

    I have no more evidence than you as to what actually went through people’s minds in 1300 b.c.e. I do know that populations outstrip their resource base eventually, and that ecologies are never “sustainable”… there are always factors jostling for supremacy, creating ebbs and flows that can be dramatic.

    Was just reading about Pine Rust, for example:

    Do you think all the pines or the gooseberries or the fungi sit around wringing their hands, philosophizing and blaming each other or their similars? No, they just get on with eating and fucking and killing (or co-operating) until they get better at competing, or they adjust, or they disappear.

    Many people seem to want there to be a moral protagonist in all of this, and I just disagree that that’s possible, even if it were desirable.

    No amount of heartfelt or well-intentioned talk can make the universe work in a way other than that in which it shows itself to do. Herzen: “Why does everything exist as it ought to exist, whereas with man, it is the opposite?”

    Re: communist & socialist ‘revolutions’, here’s Maduro of Venezuela decrying Imperialism: “Comrades, I am ready to hand over to communal power the factories that some conservative big wigs in this country have stopped. An idled factory is a factory handed over to the people. We are going to do it, fuck it!”

    Because what “the people” apparently desire are more industrial factories to work in…

    @Deb, thanks for repeating that Jeb McKenna quote. I was quite struck by it at the time you posted it originally, and I continue to appreciate the metaphor.

  • oops, sorry.. Jed, not Jeb..

  • Lidia,
    I don’t know where you got the idea that ‘populations outstrip their resource base eventually.’ As long as the sun is continuing to supply the energy
    to allow ecosystems to function,and nutrients continue to be recycled,as they do in all natural ecosystems,populations can be maintained for the life of that species,with fluctuations in the population. Of course,over geological time that species may respond to selection pressure and change morphologically.

  • Just to clarify,my comment above was referring to natural ecosystems where
    the energy source is solar energy flow. Human populations reliant on stored
    ‘fossil’energy is a different can of worms.

  • Yay, Ruth Mundy – telling it like it is – thank you Caroline.

    Steven Jenkinson Die Wise pg 250/1:

    This learning of home is what informs the indigenous creation stories that are on the syllabus of every comparative mythology or comparative religion class, and it is what enables an indigenous person to point to a particular cleft in a rock or a particular blue lake in the mountains and say, “My people came to this earth from there.” They mean it in every sense that it can be meant. Those of use without the ability to be at home might guffaw when an indigenous person means that his or her home and ancestral origin place is right over there, in the right of way of that highway overpass we are proposing to build, or in that grove of trees temporarily delaying the addition of another nine holes to our golf course. Usually we do guffaw. Or we turn it into a symbolic story, an allegory, a metaphor for being born. But here is the scorpion’s tale: Symbols and allegories are homelessness remembered, in truth. Symbol and allegory are the syntax of homelessness.

    Being at home in a given place means recognizing the rocks, the plants, the winds, and the waters and stars of that place in your own body, and your body in the rocks, the plants, the winds, and the waters and stars of that place. It means more than having memories associated with a given place. It means learning again how you and those you love and admire, in every physical, metabolic, chemical, mythical, and spiritual sense it can be meant, are made of the things that make the place you belong to. That is the alchemy of belonging. This is where home comes from.

    Crime of the Century (Supertramp)

    Now they’re planning the crime of the century
    Yes, it’s well worth the fee

    Read all about their schemes and adventuring
    Yes, it’s well worth a fee

    So roll up and see
    How they rape the universe
    How they’ve gone from bad to worse

    Who are these men of lust, greed and glory?
    Rip off the masks and let’s see

    But that’s not right – oh no, what’s the story?
    There’s you and there’s me
    That can’t be right


  • Guy, I watched your Sacramento question and answer presentation this afternoon. I must say, I thought you handled yourself very well here. I’ve seen some of your other presentations in the past and I thought this one far exceeded all the others in terms of scientific professionalism. Just the information without a lot of opinion (which can tend to sound like belief in search of proof). Thanks.

  • @Lidia…,Wow…that is one stunning display of wanton ignorance of indigenous matriarchal social structure. In matriarchal stone age cultures cooperation prevails and brother bison and salmon willingly share their bodies for little brother human sustenance.social status within those cultures was only achieved through great personal sacrifice to the whole community by those seeking status and no one was ever left needing in the community. If all life in a biotic community was only jockying for the next opportunity to hyperexploit the other living members of that community an ecosystem could never exist.Hyperexploitation only exists in patriarchal cultures. And to compare robbin datta’s shaman to trump is offensive. I would say that your mechanistic worldview reeks of sociopathy.

  • “There may be two, or two billion, different opinions or points of view, but there are not two or two billion actual physical worlds which support human life. There is only one.”

    That we know of…

    Myths are ways to fill in world-views, including creation myths. Sometimes they may have demonstrable utility, as in the Austrlian aboriginal story of the land inhabited by evil spirits for a region that has hazardously radioactive minerals. At other times myths will help stabilise adaptive behaviour in community interactions, benefitting the group in the long term. Scientific know-how is more “true” and “real” and yet can be both disruptive and maladaptive.

    Resource limits are an important aspect of population control, but competition, predation, disease, and other aspects of habitat have effects, often synergistically, on population size. Hence for our Neanderthal and Denisovan cousins… exeunt omnes.

    “what actually went through people’s minds”…
    what is the last thing to go through a bug’s mind when it hits a windshield?
    Its ass!

    “Many people seem to want there to be a moral protagonist in all of this, and I just disagree that that’s possible, even if it were desirable.”

    The realised person recognises that in all of this, Nature Bas First, Middle and Last, and also Pitches First, Middle and Last; even Fields First, Middle and Last: the Self is the Spectator that lends a modicum reality that makes the proceedings apparent.

  • ‘It is silly to spend an entire lifetime struggling and worrying and doing things we don’t want to do; after all life is like a dream,so short and fleeting’
    No doubt everyone has similar stories. I was involved in a helicopter crash
    when doing sampling work in the bush about 20 years ago. A sapling that
    I was standing next to was severed a couple of centimetres above my head
    by the helicopter rotor.as it flew from the crashed helicopter.https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/may/17/we-are-all-just-a-millimetre-away-from-death-all-the-time-if-only-we-knew-it

  • digixplor Says:
    May 15th, 2016 at 7:25 am

    dredd, you know we all have stockholm syndrome these days…
    digixplor Says:

    May 15th, 2016 at 7:30 am

    nobody can be sure if they’re a kidnapper or a hostage any more…
    “What you mean ‘we’ white man?

    Forked man speak with white tongue.”

    Don’t stay in the ‘blame the victim’ trance (Choose Your Trances Carefully, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6).

  • hahaha…thanks all, for confirming my beliefs. have a slow death.

  • Guy

    I’m so relieved, yeah. A young man on Youtube(late 20’s/early 30’S), with no science, biological, geological, etc etc, background, informed me, with NO uncertainty, that you and all the scientist spouting this climate change/global warming/whatever bullshit, is all bullshit. Yeah, seems you are all paid-off shills.
    Man am I relieved.

  • The Empire strikes back with Prechter no less.