A “Town Hall” Discussion in Chico, California, Part II

The following, embedded video was shot and edited by Marc Haneburght based on a discussion in Chico, California. It is the second of three parts. The event occurred on 4 May 2016, and was arranged by Peter Melton, who also facilitated the discussion. Big thanks to Marc and Peter.


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Comments 39

  • Robert Scribbler just posted this today under comments – June 22, 2016.

    He makes absolutely no mention of abrupt Arctic methane release.

    Add a minuscule amount of Arctic methane on the order of just three measly Gt – plus increasing atmospheric water vapor …

    Robert says; “You don’t need to flip the switch on too many of these systems before you start looking at a steepening curve. And its worth remembering that only a small change in how sunlight hits the Earth at the poles is enough, during the glacial to interglacial transition, to set off geophysical changes that increase global CO2 by 100 ppm and global temperatures by 4-5 C. The human forcing is much stronger and we’ve already warmed the Earth by, on average, about 1 C since the 1880s. That’s a much harder initial kick to the global carbon system than any mere orbital change.”

  • How many new pregnancies are there since my last comment in
    “Edge of Extinction: They Can Jump, But They Can’t Jump Rope”
    on June 10?

    Maybe global warming will kill this pandemic non-sentient virus.
    Non-sentient is the wrong term.
    Each individual knows that it is the center of the universe.

    I’m changing my handle to “Hypocrisy & Consequences Advocate”

    Damn these complex math questions to post on NBL. lol

  • @ Guy

    You just stated:

    “Firing the clathrate gun is unnecessary to ensure loss of habitat for humans on Earth long before 2030”.

    Given that 2030 is less than 14 years away, you are now predicting the loss of human habitat—human extinction—long before 14 years from now?

    “…long before…” doesn’t imply months, but years and many years at that. So you’re now predicting NTE within the next…..say 8-12 years?

    Increased water vapor within the troposphere is sort of climate change 101 level stuff. It’s been long predicted, the science is well established and it not surprising that it’s occurring. Now, how this translates into all of humanity being extinct within an incredibly short period of time, especially when, as Kevin Moore has repeatedly pointed out, that the ocean temperatures (deep as well as surface) would most likely need to see a corresponding spike in temperature as well for this occur given that the earth is primarily a water planet. How does this happen when the majority of humanity lives within maritime climate zones, where air temperatures are primarily driven by ocean temperatures, and that while the ocean temps are increasing, they surely aren’t increasing fast enough, nor could it to corroborate your timeline.

    I think most everyone here is convinced we are well advanced within an extinction level event; this is not the issue, but rather the timing of that event very much is. IMO,the problem with your position, is that you seem to be making ever greater claims regarding specific timing without equally specific supportive evidence.

  • I really enjoyed these last two videos of the Chico discussion. Well done on everyone’s part. I find that I am completely unable to discuss the present reality with anyone I know. They simply don’t believe that the destruction of the Earth is as extreme as it is. A big bravo to the group for being open to a devastating truth. I really appreciated the one woman in the blue vest who said, “there you were, speaking the truth.”

  • NTE by whatever means is THE REAL issue.

    Did Shakhova retract her position about an abrupt Arctic methane release?

    As always; IS IT TRUE?

    Here is THE direct quote claimed by The Tribune Content Agency in March, 23, 2015 & referenced by Guy for his serious allegation about Shakhova’s supposed retraction.

    It’s from a New Scientist magazine article entitled “The methane apocalypse.” that concludes with strong assurances that no abrupt methane releases are forthcoming from Arctic stores.

    The author is – New Scientist.

    ***For her part, Shakhova now says, “We 
never stated that 50 gigatonnes is likely to be released in near or distant future.” It is true that the 2010 study explores the consequences of the release of 50 gigatonnes rather than explicitly claiming that this will happen. However, it has certainly been widely misunderstood both by other scientists and the media. And her team’s papers continue to fuel the idea that we should be worried about dramatic and damaging releases of methane from the Arctic.***

    search; The methane apocalypse – Tribune Content Agency

    Here is the “about us” hype of the Tribune Content Agency from their website.

    “Tribune Content Agency is a team of passionate editors, rights managers and technology experts providing quality content solutions for publishers around the globe. Working with a vast collection of the world’s best sources, we deliver a daily news service and syndicated premium content to more than 2,000 media and digital information publishers in nearly 100 countries.”

    blah, blah …

    and finally; “Let us help you succeed with captivating stories and innovative solutions.”


    Again; with a mea culpa for my earlier moronic typo stating 2011 paper instead of 2015.

    Here are the last two paragraphs of conclusions from Shakhova & colleagues’ Sept. 7, 2015 definitive paper at Phil. Trans. Royal Society.

    under the sub heading, “Implications for future emissions.”

    “The range of modern CH4 emissions from the seafloor in the ESAS serves as a baseline for monitoring future dynamics in CH4 fluxes from the ESAS. We suggest that within the entire range of observed fluxes, the lowest fluxes are associated with an initial degree of subsea permafrost thawing observed in the shallow shelf outside the areas affected by faults, rivers and pre-existing thermokarst. These fluxes are fuelled by modern methanogenesis occurring within sediment accumulations of the Holocene age, which have never been frozen, and/or within partially thawed older sediments beneath them. The highest rates observed over the outer shelf area are likely to represent the maximum emissions, which combine recently produced CH4 and long-accumulated pre-formed CH4 escaping from seabed deposits through gas migration pathways that are growing in capacity. Shallow hot spots, currently releasing CH4 at high rates, are representative of local subsea permafrost disintegration that takes place in areas subjected to development of deep/open taliks due to increased fault-related geothermal flux and/or river heat-induced flux and/or thermokarst progression after submergence.”

    “The observed range in CH4 emissions associated with different degrees of subsea permafrost disintegration implies substantial and potent emission enhancement in the ESAS as the process of subsea permafrost thawing progresses with time. While it is still unclear how quickly CH4 flux rates will change, the current process of Arctic warming and associated sea ice loss [35,36] will accelerate this process. The potential for the release of substantial amounts of CH4 from the ESAS region has important implications not only for atmospheric CH4 concentrations but also, given CH4’s potency as a greenhouse gas, for the global climate. Because the ESAS contains the largest and arguably most vulnerable stores of subsea CH4 [2,10,46,47], inclusion of the ESAS source in global climate models should be considered a high priority.”

    If the New Scientist quote is the only source of a supposed Shakhova retraction of a solidly evidenced world shattering scientific hypothesis, I don’t buy it.

    I cannot detect any semblance or “nuance” of significant variation, never mind retraction, from Shakhova’s original, clearly stated, & continually restated position about an increasingly probable release of sub-sea Arctic Ocean methane clathrate deposits.

    The clear statement in the Phil. Trans. paper is unequivocal evidence.

    I have exhausted every net search for any other source of her supposed retraction & come up empty.

    Content & source checking counts.

  • @ Daniel-
    Quit nitpicking Dr. McPherson. He is doing a good job.

  • I see the customary deniers are back with their customary insults. Apparently they can’t help themselves.

    According to the very conservative journal literature, the ocean is essentially dead and unable to generate oxygen at 6 C above baseline. Check for a 2015 paper in the long essay for details. I am unwilling to spoon feed you any longer.

    Earth will blow through that 6 C mark soon. No complex life. No oxygen from the ocean. I’m sure a few patriarchs will be fine.

  • Dr. McPherson,

    You demonstrate amazing patience, both in your lectures and on this board.

    As you state, haters can’t help themselves – so why should we care or try ?

  • Thanks Gerald Spezio, good investigating.

    Here’s another article which might help get to the bottom of what’s going on behind the discrediting of Shakhova and Similetov’s work.


    Also recall that Kevin Moore was never able to find the instantaneous CO2E forcing value of methane published anywhere, a carefully guarded secret apparently.

    Malcolm Light’s, as he called it, conservative value of 1000 for CO2E of methane, extrapolated from temperature charts and observed CH4 readings, which was widely said to be unscientific. His paper on this is linked at Arctic News.

    And then consider that Hansen was replaced by Schmidt ( who works with models ) at NASA.

    Ever wonder if something’s up?

  • I think you should change the name of the site to “Stick A Fork In It”.

  • Stop fighting kids, there is more than enough methane to go around.

    “The clear synchronism of this rapid warming and the onset of the destabilization of gas hydrates is important,” Kennett concluded. “It suggests that methane hydrate instability and the warming are somehow linked, which is an interesting and potentially important observation. The beauty of these paleoclimate records from the Santa Barbara Basin is that you can actually determine these relationships at high fidelity.”

    Modern Global Warming Worries

    Kennett said that one of the current worries about modern global warming is that the increase in ocean temperatures will destabilize methane hydrates located at relatively shallow depths on the ocean margin, in turn causing positive feedbacks that reinforce the global warming. In fact, this appears already to be occurring in the ocean.

    Recent research by others indicates that methane hydrates off the coast of Washington, Oregon and British Columbia are destabilizing in response to a small increase in bottom water temperatures (only 0.3 degrees Celsius) during the past 44 years. This is producing methane gas plumes that billow upward from the ocean floor. Additional ocean margin areas are exhibiting similar responses to warming, which are documented in other scientific work.”


  • Am I missing something?
    I don’t understand the preoccupation with the timing of NTE. Five,fifteen or fifty; what does it matter? Unless of course you have been encouraging your nearest and dearest to make an early exit on the grounds all hell is about to break forth.
    And it may be. You may also be dead at the next intersection you drive through or walk down some stairs.

    Most of us have limiting factors as to the choices we can make anyway, age, finances, commitments to kids or pets or places.
    If you can, find a place that you feel at peace. I don’t think you can hope for much more at this stage.

  • Been a while since I’ve posted…

    @44 South
    I suspect the preoccupation with timing is a rhetorical technique. Make someone commit to a date, then find ways to use the date to discredit the argument.
    If I predict that I’ll die on January 1, 2025 and I wake up on January 2, it doesn’t mean that I’m not going to die, it means I guessed the wrong date.
    Yes, Guy’s date is coming up fast. His argument is hardly different if it were to take an additional 10 years, or a couple of years less. Things are going to get very bad, very soon, and then get worse still.

    Changing subjects, Desdemona Despair has a couple of links to articles on the Venezuela situation. “Venezuelans ransack stores as hunger stalks crumbling nation”. Seems that drought has compromised agriculture and hydroelectric production, and the collapse of oil prices leaves them with no foreign currency to buy food. The details of why there is no food are perhaps less interesting than how things are progressing.

    “With delivery trucks under constant attack, the nation’s food is now transported under armed guard. Soldiers stand watch over bakeries. The police fire rubber bullets at desperate mobs storming grocery stores, pharmacies and butcher shops. A 4-year-old girl was shot to death as street gangs fought over food.

    Venezuela is convulsing from hunger.

    Hundreds of people here in the city of Cumaná, home to one of the region’s independence heroes, marched on a supermarket in recent days, screaming for food. They forced open a large metal gate and poured inside. They snatched water, flour, cornmeal, salt, sugar, potatoes, anything they could find, leaving behind only broken freezers and overturned shelves.

    In the last two weeks alone, more than 50 food riots, protests and mass looting have erupted around the country. Scores of businesses have been stripped bare or destroyed. At least five people have been killed. ”

    Food exists, but their system is too compromised to get it. How much worse when there is no food at all? Coming soon to a civilization near you.

  • “With the Northern Hemisphere Pole warming at a rate 2-3 times faster than the rest of the globe, there’s a risk that we start to set off a kind of runaway warming feedback. We may be near that threshold now… God help us if we’ve crossed it…”


  • Good documentary – Why in the World are They Spraying?

    Mark A. – can you shine any light here?


  • The two latest videos are really good. Guy McPherson has done a lot of core personal work on top of connecting the dots that many specialized scientists don’t do. He is an example of a person who has gone through many stages, though still open to learning about life from others, and has consciously chosen to tell us the news. He also is here for us to witness and experience his state of being as he does so. He doesn’t pretend to be a great sage or enlightened, but he is sharing his basic humanity (and reactions to this scientific truth), not hiding who he is. This is hard stuff….for everyone. We should all find our own unique paths to share, teach, and serve other people like he has-i.e. in our own way and using our unique gifts.

  • Bob S., who is “they”? I’ve addressed this issue, based on evidence, with this essay.

  • .
    Why in the World are They Spraying

    *who is they?*

    FWIW, I’m not convinced for or against – I seek my truth wherever it leads me.

    Greedy psychopaths making 100’s of billions trading *weather derivatives* and *commodity futures*?
    Bloodthirsty psychopaths seeking *military advantage* to better slaughter those able to fight back?
    Delusional psychopaths seeking *psychological control* over populations?
    Et’s messing with our heads for the lutz?

    Great documentary – don’t miss it – very thought provoking.

  • It’s raining here – a gentle summer rain – and south of here, in California, ….

    Solstice summer rain – such a blessing – and robins calling from the Garry Oaks.

    The Chambered Nautilus

    by Oliver Wendell Holmes

    THIS is the ship of pearl, which, poets feign,
    Sails the unshadowed main,—
    The venturous bark that flings
    On the sweet summer wind its purpled wings
    In gulfs enchanted, where the siren sings,
    And coral reefs lie bare,
    Where the cold sea-maids rise to sun their streaming hair.

    Its webs of living gauze no more unfurl;
    Wrecked is the ship of pearl!
    And every chambered cell,
    Where its dim dreaming life was wont to dwell,
    As the frail tenant shaped his growing shell,
    Before thee lies revealed,—
    Its irised ceiling rent, its sunless crypt unsealed!

    Year after year beheld the silent toil
    That spread his lustrous coil;
    Still, as the spiral grew,
    He left the past year’s dwelling for the new,
    Stole with soft step its shining archway through,
    Built up its idle door,
    Stretched in his last-found home, and knew the old no more.

    Thanks for the heavenly message brought by thee,
    Child of the wandering sea,
    Cast from her lap, forlorn!
    From thy dead lips a clearer note is born
    Than ever Triton blew from wreathèd horn!
    While on mine ear it rings,
    Through the deep caves of thought I hear a voice that sings:—

    Build thee more stately mansions, O my soul,
    As the swift seasons roll!
    Leave thy low-vaulted past!
    Let each new temple, nobler than the last,
    Shut thee from heaven with a dome more vast,
    Till thou at length art free,
    Leaving thine outgrown shell by life’s unresting sea!

  • “the ocean is essentially dead” of course it is. Everything goes according the the Plan 9 from outside the spacetime.

    “We’re all hypnotized into thinking that there’s something out there… No space, no time, no gravity, no electromagnetism, no particles. Nothing…” – John Archibald Wheeler, physicist who invented the name “black hole” and was a colleague of Albert Einstein and Niels Bohr.

  • Have you ever felt, that even NTE gets boring over time? I did. If we can’t stop it, then why bother? If you can’t stop age, desease, death, then why bother? If you can’t change the weather, then why bother?

    Back to my geetar.

  • If there is nothing after death (like modern materialistic science claims), then not knowing, like all the other animals and all the empire sheeps, is a blessing. Then being a sheep is a blessing.

  • This One is for you Nemisis,

    Sitting around blowing on the new curved soprano sax i got yesterday.Lots of fun,blew it out last night at the local jam last night

    a bit of Wes and Jimmy Smith,groove

  • .
    Merchants of Doubt

    Inside look at the *denial* industry.

    Another great thought provoking documentary

    Can be watched on Putlocker or similar.

  • Guy

    Any chance you can arrange a hybrid of webinar and these support group type meetings?

    Possible to virtually expand the group without diminishing intimacy?

  • Warmth
    Sexual intercourse
    If you are a human, callidus or sapiens it matters not, you are in dire need of those.
    Soon, the planet may not be able to give it to you.
    End of Story-
    All the best.

  • Apex, you mean something like this, which has been offered for more than a year? No positive responses so far. Plenty of disparaging comments about my partial departure from a gift economy, though, from people who don’t understand the concept.

  • Tom James – per your request, I received a few replies. Here is what currently keeps some people in great power positions up at night.

    John Brennan – CIA staff prepared this from his direct quote on tape at last weeks meeting on BIOSHIELD “… local, state, federal and international partnerships that will be required to keep the homeland secure from our (info) from (redacted) about the CAS-9 impending biological terrorist attack. FBI Director Mueller has been tireless in his efforts over the past eight years forging similarly strong partnerships with a wide array of law enforcement organizations at home and abroad. And General Jones, the President’s National Security Advisor, earlier this year addressed how the Administration will more effectively address transnational challenges through a newly integrated National Security Staff at the White House.”

    Personally I have already posted the actual NSA documents here on NBL when I did the radio show. Most importantly the PRChina co-financed our detailed plans for an induced pandemic event. If it ever happens NBL might become famous as one of the few sites that can prove the next 911 style event was pre-planned by several governments in conjunction.

    A military leader in China was on Beijing TV after I did the radio talk with GUY. The Chineese General detailed why the North American population should be reduced. Globally the USA is more important for agriculture than sustaining a consumer population. The NSA translated the speech in French and English. It is sort of long and boring but the official version from China is on YouTube just in case anyone wants to understand why most of North America can be eliminated in a weekend, as long as all our Nuclear Power plants don’t meltdown during the rapid transition. What a land grab. What could go wrong???

    I hope the ABC TV news of our Homeland Security teams conducting Biological spread tests in the NYC subway months after I told it was planned is Evidence and proof that we do plan these experiments and operations in advance. Prior to Hiroshima the Manhattan project was a secret project with very limited evidence. Even the first Nuclear plant in Hanford was kept secret with thousands employed. I don’t care that much anymore but you will see main stream TV news Evidence of events we have to plan on paper then equip and prepare first.

    Dr. Leslie Ford the deputy director general of the NIH is a personal friend. I asked her your question by Skype. “Go ahead and tell Tom how all this goes back to our work before the SynGen Corp ruling by the Supreme court. Synthesized DNA. It’s a real nightmare. Biological war is so easy to do. We can’t track any of the covert groups. And Mark you know all the men like your father keep increasing the defense spending for () Biowar is so much more attractive now than nuclear war.”

    John Mc Cain (Senator & uncle) “Vietnam again, Dam it!!! This F–ing new arms deal with Vietnam is going to turn into a nightmare. The whole thing with all the disputed islands is going to explode. (phone call got put on hold) “Apathy and sleep walking right into a huge war in the pacific. F–ing China. Tell em it’s going to be bigger than Pearl Harbor when it does happen. Over a dozen countries. We’re way too close to World war.”

    On the phone my father just grumbled about gun control. The Senator of New Mexico would not respond but he is on the Senate defense spending committee. They are in charge of Trillions of dollars of D.O.D. contracts to NASA. DARPA. Black op secret developments with “ultra sonics”. The global military-industrial complex is vast. I’ve grown up with it so sometimes I think there is nothing to fear except all the fear they manufacture.

    The common denominator in both calls – “control guns” oh yeah and to fight an imaginary anti-Muslim backlash. North American people with guns are more frightening than Europeans. The North American population will be the worst to manage after an EMP or ELF waves cracking San Andreas, New Madrid, Etc.

    Exxon-Mobil CEO, Rex Tillerson is friendly with my father because the US military is the largest consumer of Exxon product. Exxon sells more to the military and in turn they get exploratory ENERGY grants. “I don’t deny Climate Change, but people will adapt. They’ll adapt.” Dino Rex was at my father’s 80th b-day. They have staff members who read NBL, just to be sure nothing actually radical will come from this site. Talk is fine. But Greenpeace folks who plan to climb on the rigs or block tankers are sort of a problem. Like swatting mosquitoes.

    FBI Microwave program director J.D. “Tell Tom that in Washington D.C. there is a very deep distrust of the American people. Instead of focusing on the small number of terrorists, the mass of Americans are viewed as the problem, and must be restrained. Gun controls express a fear of ordinary folk having guns; Islamophobia theory says the real problem is the bigoted masses.”

    Michelle Obama: “Fears of Multiple Sclerosis can keep me up at night. My father suffered so badly from it.” (I’ve got photos of myself with Michelle in her White House organic garden. Oct 2014)

    The White House sent me words from Obama that replace his previous declaration that “A dirty bomb or any kind of Nuclear device going off in Manhattan is my worst nightmare.”

    Here is the new non-official statement for Tom. And thanks for asking because they intend to post an official twitter size version soon. For now they e-mailed this video clip where Obama concluded his speech by saying that – “the terrorists will be defeated: ‘Let’s not forget that freedom is more powerful than fear. That we have always met challenges, whether war or depression, natural disasters or terrorist attacks, by coming together around our common ideals as one nation and one people. So long as we stay true to that tradition, I have no doubt that America will prevail.’

    On wall street yesterday Sir Evelyn Rothschild, Dick Cheney and Rupert Murdoch, are ready to agree on a thousand page deal to control media and world military matters connected to drilling for oil in Syria. Black Rock is still a high risk deal….but none of them see the asteroid of abrupt climate change or limited nuclear war in the middle East as hampering future profits from drilling in Syria. North Korea is so lucky they don’t seem to have the prospect of oil to really get them on the world conflict stage. Oil is still golden….That’s why I’m piling up all the plastic on Montezuma beach. Oil extracted from plastic trash will be the next fuel….or botox…gawd knows what the future AI bots think will happen. I’m learning how to become HOPE FREE one day at a time. LOL

    http://www.energy.gov and lot’s of turtle luv

    mod note from mo

    I asked Mark to back up the claimed quotes here with a clarification that all quotes here are accurate and given by permission, and this is what he said below (“His” refers to McCain)

    “Yes full permission. Exactly the same as any news reporter. His quote is for NBL news. You can call his office also but due to my family connection and knowing exactly how to get thru I manage okay. I also rarely do it and never abuse the privilege. Also because it is “me” the NSA will ‘scan’ read my comment. So will the CIA. I will happily provide you the link to the public of how and why the CIA checks all facts when they are mentioned. http://www.CIA.gov if you don’t have sign in code to that part I will go in and find it tomorrow.”

  • I’m raising a glass of the famous grouse in celebration of the vote in Britain and looking forward to “black Friday” on the markets tomorrow and then the start (finally) of the collapse of industrial civilisation!
    I apologise in advance for the stress this may cause some of you.
    Mark..glad you’re here.

  • Some new commentary on the BIG world neighbour and changes in the economic balance of growth, from wages…of all things.

    ‘The End Of Cheap China – 16 Emerging Low Wage Economies’


    A quote:

    “China has completed its cycle as a high-growth, low-wage country and has entered a new phase that is the new normal.

    China will continue to be a major economic force but will not be the dynamic engine of global growth it once was. International capitalism requires a low-wage, high-growth region for high rewards on risk capital. In the 1880s it was the United States, for example. China was the most recent region, replacing Japan. No one country can replace China, but we have noted 16 countries with a total population of about 1.15 billion people where entry-level manufacturing has gone after leaving China. Identifying the Post-China 16 countries is not a forecast. It is a list of countries in which we see significant movement of stage industries, particularly garment and footwear manufacturing and mobile phone assembly.”

    Here is the pressure that will put more wight as the world capitalist economy dies. All these countries will need labour laws, and have problems accommodating the power that will come to labour unions. Also more destruction of nature and toxicity too.

    Same story. Move on. Nothing to see here.

    Now Britain has voted to leave the EU all bets are off…eerrr…or on, as the case may be.



  • The Big Bang has decided 14 billions of years ago that Britain leaves the EU in 2016. That decision has now become manifest.

    “Decisions don’t come from nowhere but they emerge from prior brain activity. Where else should they come from? In theory it could be possible to trace the causal pathway of a decision all the way back to the big bang. Our research shows that we can trace it back 10 seconds.”
    – John-Dylan Haynes, director of the Haynes neuroimaging lab at the
    Bernstein Center for Computational Neuroscience,
    Charité – Universitätsmedizin Berlin.

  • @ Batman
    According to relativity, all time exists now

    Best Wishes


    Thank you for your reply – very interesting stuff.

    I am kind of amazed something on your list has not happened yet …

  • The third and final part of video based on the discussion in Chico, California has been posted here. I’ve also included a policy change with respect to comments.